#they were also an lok fan which was cool at first...

[sorikaied]

honestly i may have more worse blogs that i followed and ended up unfollowing after a point more than worst mutuals throughout the decade i’ve been on hellblr

[anti-spop]

on the topic of flawed characters, there's one that will always shock me at how much hate he got. i'm talking about lars from st/even universe. like yeah, he was a jerk and all, but even from the beginning we saw there was more to him. lars is incredibly insecure and socially anxious and it's implied that he's depressed as well (none of these things excuse his behavior!). and lars was often punished throughout the show, by steven, ronaldo, and even sadie. and yet lars was always seen in the wrong.

lars was probably the MOST hated character in the entirety of su. hell, ppl hated him more than they hated the diamonds or gems like jasper. ppl would legitimately send DEATH THREATS to lars/larsadie fans. i remember that very clearly. i wasn't a big lars fan back then but i already liked him. lars was like the show's equivalent of s/quidward, who's also my fave in s/pongebob.

i related a lot to lars, too. i was a lot like him as a teen. i still am a bit like him - sarcastic, grumpy, insecure yet still very passionate about my interests - but yeah, if you related to lars, you were seen as a horrible person. the fandom only started liking him when lars DIED and became a cool space captain. but as soon as lars relapsed (or when he thought sadie was trying to get back at him for hanging out with the cool kids), ppl were ready to hate on him again.

honestly, even now that lars is liked, i still get ppl leaving their opinions on my lars art ("ugh i HATED lars when i first watched the show but he's cool now"), and i hate that very much. i hate that i'm not allowed to like lars without ppl still hammering in my head how much they hated or still dislike him. i wouldn't comment that on your art of your fave, i would just make my own damn post or just leave my opinion to myself. that's like saying "i hate this ship but cool art".

another important factor to note is that lars is not white. even in like 2015, one of the crew members confirmed that. and later we find out lars is filipino (and it IS confirmed onscreen when lars bakes an ube cake). he is in fact a mentally ill character of color. and that's exactly what makes ppl hate him, besides the fact lars isn't conventionally attractive. bc i know fans would drool over him if that were the case (and especially if he were white). you COULD say lars is the equivalent of spop kyle, both pathetic and skinny boys, except lars is not white, and he's snarky and short-tempered, but it is implied he was bullied or mistreated at some point in his childhood, too.

and of course, there are other actual flawed characters of color who get unfair hate, like katara, korra (though i haven't seen lok), diane from bojack, and glimmer. which angers me when ppl stan catra and they accuse you of being racist or ableist if you criticize her.

you guys. do not. give a fuck. about ACTUAL characters of color. you will just hate them too! fuck off with that performative bullshit.

[jubilantmedusa]

I finally started watching Legend of Korra. Just finished Book 1.

It was ok? Even though ATLA is one of my favorite shows of all time, I’ve never been super interested in watching LOK, mostly because the more modern, urban setting doesn’t appeal to me per say. But I needed to watch something while feeding my newborn, so here we go! Finally doing it.

Random thoughts:

I like Korra. We love a nice, impulsive hothead. They were smart to make her so different from Aang.

I’m meh on the rest of Team Avatar so far? I was warming to Mako before he got pulled into the love triangles (because who can resist a broody firebender). Bolin I wanted to like but I find him a bit annoying so far. Asami had a few nice moments but was also injured by the love triangle. This is rough because the ATLA characters were just so lovable, even very minor ones.

I am warming up to the older characters. Tenzin grew on me. He had me when he was getting all annoyed a probending refs. (Side note, but if Aang were around he would totally be giving Tenzin a hard time over bending too serious for probending - Aang in center the air scooter, he loved games, he would have probably liked bending games.) Lin is gruff but who doesn’t love gruff? She reminds me of early Murphy from Dresden Files but in a good way.

Given that ATLA had airships and tanks, the fact that there are cars and airplanes isn’t that weird. But it does feel a little weird.

A bender vs non-bender conflict could have been very interesting, but it wasn’t well done and the escalation made no sense. Might expand on this. I have lots of notes for how this could have been improved.

The pacing and the tension of the season wasn’t bad. It just… there were missed opportunities.

Amon’s mask was cool though. He wasn’t bad as a villain.

Tarrlok too. I guess I enjoyed the villains more than her heroes, hmm. His last scenes got to me.

I am so annoyed that season one is about learning airbending, but we spend way more time on pro-bending. It’s basically ignored until the last episode.

Same for the spiritual stuff, which… makes the last scenes interesting.

Like I said… I have notes.

Probending is kinda boring. I can think of way more interesting bending sports. I wanted to like it. But every time it was featured, I just thought about earth rumbles and Agni Kai’s and Katara encasing Azula in ice… we could have such a cooler bending sport.

Tenzin’s kids should be way older. He waited until later in life to have kids, which is a bold move for the last airbender. (But whatever, these are the people who said Roku is Zuko’s great grandfather which makes no sense mathematically.)

I don’t like Tenzin or adult Aang’s beards. Just not a fan.

Katara’s alive. Aang, Sokka, and Toph appeared in flashbacks. Zuko is the only one we didn’t see. But we did get his grandson! Who is around the age Tenzin’s kids should probably be.

I noticed in the avatar wiki that Jinora’s (and all the air kids) ethnicity is listed as Air Nomad and Water Tribe. But they have a mother! And she does not look very water tribe. So I submit to you my first head cannon: Pema has both earth kingdom and fire nation ethnicity. Meaning Aang’s grandchild have the blood of all four elements.

[jade-of-mourning]

okay sorry hi I know I just sent you an ask about my cat being alive but you’re like,, my favorite internet stranger so I thought you should know. I calmed down a little bit and read your response to my fourteen page ask

IM SO HAPPY I HYPE YOU UP‼️‼️ I love being peoples’ hypeman and you’re like,,, awesome so that’s super cool. don’t rush yourself but if you’re feeling pumped to share I will be your #1 fan. I’m probably gonna finish a little 4+1 thing and post it to my blog as a little grand reveal as snailon if that’s cool :3

ALSO I’m so happy you posted the cat thing on ao3 it was really nice and super well written and thank you for the suggestion! the cat is being washed thoroughly right now and I am on guard duty of the bathroom door. he was (we guess) stuck in the sewage of the construction sight beyond the wooded area behind our house.

SO MORE LOK THOUGHTS

you exactly caught my vibe (again) when you mentioned the insane repression mako and bolin are doing in canon. I honestly think there’s nothing more than elevator music behind bo’s eyes in canon because if the creators allowed anything else it would solely be The Horrors and they needed someone on that godforsaken team to be emotionally available and somewhat happy. and try as he might, mako will always be uncontrollably feral. I know by b4 he just has an all out brawl every morning fighting to get his hair presentable. give up and be the scraggly, strange detective that somehow knows everything that you were always meant to be.

which, for the record, is not to say I like his hair. I want him to grow it out more so he stops looking so fucking dumb with his stupid pointy ass hair (I really really really hate mako’s hair) but I also think it would grow out kind of wavy/curly which. yeah. I will be coming back to this later when I yap about avatar mako btw.

also PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEEE write mako absolutely losing his shit he 100% so much deserves that. he cries maybe once yearly and it is scheduled so I think he should get to murder y’know. just a little bit. he’s just a girl (insert sad coquette hamster)

makos hand being fucked up is the Vision. you understand so much. the gloves are so suspicious (the same way the shirt-on-at-the-sauna is in the comics. i see you, you little transmasc) and going off the logic of the last ep that with enough charge/consistency, lightning output can scar/mangle the exit point of the bender so. mako learning to use his bending mostly on his own fucking up and rocking his own shit until zolt shoves someone over to go clean up the rookie cause finding someone new is a pain. of course it’s a patch job (as you mentioned everything for them would be) so I imagine it’s like. pretty mangled. like stuff just slightly out of place, lots of raised skin and discolored patches and generally like uncomfortable to look at. I’d bet (like you said) bolin is really the only one he’d trust to see his hands unless makorrasami became like. a thing.

also if you have any,, fic recs,, I would be very not opposed,,,,,

OKAY OKAY SO AVATAR MAKO THOUGHTS. I’m actually going insane about this au.

so for 1: this idea was mostly a silly little ha-ha but imagine raava gets really fucking confused being in their first ever mixed kid and just. skips right back to air after mako. would that not be the funniest shit ever. like the earth kingdom would already be pressed that their go was a mixed kid who was a criminal firebender for the first bit of his life, but imagine how the FIRE NATION feels having their avatar “skipped over” because mako (again, CRIMINAL FIREBENDER) was technically a fn avatar.

and this keeps happening. more mixed kids. mixed kids out of the cycle ordered pairs become avatar. raava gets fucking lost. everyone loses track of whose element is next and world leaders everywhere are sobbing. mako would be so very pleased with himself. he and the half-avatar water tribe person would be clinking together glasses of alcohol in heaving and watching it all go down.

I was also thinking about this half-avatar playing a role in mako’s journey. They would be roughly fifteen years younger than the gaang, so it would make sense for them to still be alive (since raava could return to aang and still maintain them well enough) during mako’s era. do you think they could take on a mentor or distant relative role for mako? maybe being half-avatar would make them the world’s only dual bender, and they would understand mako’s struggle with wielding more than one element in a way no one else would be able to. bonus points if the styles they maintain are either earth and fire or the ‘opposite’ elements (like air+earth/water+fire—water+fire would be good to use to teach balance and that fire is not only to harm but to nurture, and that water parallels it as not only to nurture but to harm)

and that brings me to my third thought; both avatars followed in series have had a conflict or struggle with their bending. aang had to learn the other three types of bending—his conflict was finding teachers. korra needed to find it in herself to flow with the winds of airbending. but copying korra would be lame. so what’s mako’s conflict?

there’s where my pitch comes in (and kind of the point of the half-avatar); mako figured out how to use air, earth, and water as well as he uses fire (if with less refinement) within maybe a week (if that) of being discovered as the avatar. he’s a scraggly street kid used to clawing at what he can get and holding on tight: being discovered means he doesn’t have a particular reason not to make use of the other elements if need be, so he figures out how.

but the key words there are if need be. he absolutely can lift a chunk of earth five times his size, or entirely soak a full grown adult in pond water, or slap someone around with a strong gust of wind or power a building for a month with a bolt of lightning. will he be doing any of this? no. not unless his or bolin’s lives or livelihoods are threatened. mako’s struggle is that outside of life-or-death combat? he’s about the same as a nonbender. because bending has always been a risk—a life threatening and life ending risk—and one he isn’t willing to take unnecessarily. his journey is learning that bending can be used for more than harm or to enforce fearful order.

fourth and kind of final thought for avatar mako for now—he’s the earth avatar in this, but he looks very fire nation in canon (at least, my understanding of ‘fire nation’ v ‘earth kingdom’ features) so I was thinking, the avatar represents the four nations (kind of five now if we’re counting republic separately) (oh my god new thought what if there was an rc avatar ‘whose avatar is it’ ‘air by my guess’ ‘nah it’s republic city’s turn now’ ‘how does that even make sense? their blood is of the four nations.’ ‘I don’t make the rules man. ask the spirits, they’re right there.’) but they always look like the nation they’re from so. what if all the avatars look a little mixed but just lean heavy into native. so mako looks like a mixed kid already (though I’d make him more ek—will specify in a sec) but then just gets more mixed from. everywhere. but it’s not even generalized like,,, he looks like he’s from specific subcultures the last avatars came from. earth part looks kyoshi even though his dad wasn’t from the island. fn part looks like caldera city even though mom wasn’t. air—less noticeable, but he looks like aang, in a way. very temple-kid-y and less nomad-y. if that makes sense. and I’d say water part is kuruk but there’s also the ‘avatars look like their past life’s lover’ so. katara (ADDING TO THE PARALLELS IM GOING INSANE)

so this is the part where I elaborate on the ‘more earth kingdom’ part of mako’s design in my head. this also is part of the avatar-looking-like-lover thing. so ek complexions are pretty ranged, but a good deal of them are darker skinned. mako’s pretty fair, but I propose as a kid whose dad is white-brown (he’s an Italian farmer boy who tans heavy and he looks brown) and is also white-brown when I spend too long outside (ten minutes) in the summer; mako who tans so quick into a more typical dark ek tone. also bolin is darker because he deserves melanin. he gets to keep gold eyes cause they’re cool but I propose.. heterochromia!!! green/gold, could be some grayish/blue? js an absolute melting pot in there. then I associate ek with less pronounced but boxier facial structure, so either his face stays like,,, long, and is softer or stays sharp and is boxier like bolin’s. honestly prefer the first one but both are neat. also hooked nose. I don’t make the rules. katara also has a hooked nose btw it’s real I saw it.

also mako and katara have the same glare (sokka told me) and they scrunch their faces up like little carbon copies of each other when they’re focused. by the way I love to parallel the shit out of katara and mako can you tell,,

I just realized I wrote a longpost length ask. I’m so sorry.

I think I had something else to say but it’s getting late and it’s a school night 4 me so I’ve gotta get to sleep.

rest well! your favorite anon,

🐌

ah hello sorry for the extremely late response snailon!

I honestly think there’s nothing more than elevator music behind bo’s eyes in canon because if the creators allowed anything else it would solely be The Horrors

tbh you're so correct about this. let bolin have Feelings, 2024!!! (i find it so interesting that the general consensus is that bolin is more well-liked by the lok fanbase, but mako's fans are deep in the trenches whereas it's a lot harder to find active bolin fans. i stay forever respectful of the even fewer of them out there. not entirely sure how to articulate it, but yeah. bolin deserves better both from canon and the fanbase and one day i'll have to deconstruct his entire existence because he's just a fascinating creature who represents sort of a paper cutout of a stereotype

which, for the record, is not to say I like [mako's] hair. I want him to grow it out more so he stops looking so fucking dumb with his stupid pointy ass hair (I really really really hate mako’s hair)

HAHA that's valid. tbh i'm pretty neutral towards it; i like s1-s3 hair better than s4 hair because while i think that mako's poor attempt to comb himself into some semblance of Proper Society is pretty accurate to his character, i'm just not a big fan of it (though the fact that it looks bad is probably a further testament to his character never finding proper integration into society)

he’s just a girl (insert sad coquette hamster)

again. coughing at the essay i'll never finish writing on this. (okay off topic but i really really love transfem mako so much but also just fem mako in general and i need to put this out into the world. early lok fandom was on a seriously good kick when they were all drawing and writing lesbian makorra is my confession. mako being a girl makes my brain whirr)

also if you have any,, fic recs,, I would be very not opposed,,,,,

fic recs list i've written up but there's a lot of other good ones out there. immediately off the top of my head, people whose writing on mako i really like in general include slacktension (incredible author & artist from original airing with a mako voice of all time and great character dynamic exploration), rockingthegraveyard (best mako & bolin dynamics), wastetimeandtype (i especially like their casual ship fics and they made me an accidental fan of huan/mako), deerstalkerdeathfrisbee (wuko author but their mako voice is impeccable), bobtailsquid/steinbecks (another author from original airing whose writing style is just so poignant and accurate to character), themanofmanyhats, and velkynkarma. idk how you feel on makorra specifically but i confess, i accidentally really do like them and there's a lot of good stuff on ao3/ffn for them that i could share :P and i too am a fan of makorrasami but tragically, there's not a lot of that out there; however, all of old_and_new_friends' makorrasami works are fantastic. they're a multishipper who writes a lot of mako and very well, and while while i haven't read a lot of their fics because not all the ships speak to me, the ones i have read are all great. so yeah i'd suggest you take a look to see if there's anything there up your alley!

raava gets really fucking confused being in their first ever mixed kid and just. skips right back to air after mako. would that not be the funniest shit ever. like the earth kingdom would already be pressed that their go was a mixed kid who was a criminal firebender for the first bit of his life, but imagine how the FIRE NATION feels having their avatar “skipped over” because mako (again, CRIMINAL FIREBENDER) was technically a fn avatar.

okay this is actually so funny what LMFAO i didn't take into consideration that the avatar of the generation being from your nation is probably generally a point of pride and that mako's general existence is like,, the greatest possible insult to that in all the ways khsjdfbhfhsdbh i might have to casually include that in some outsider pov because the sheer comedy potential oh my god

do you think they could take on a mentor or distant relative role for mako?

i realize i probably didn't word it very explicitly in my initial explanation of this au, but what i actually meant was that raava couldn't leave the non-aang host entirely until their death because her presence was vital to their living. it's casually playing off the theory that yue was meant to be the water avatar, and so she was born sickly because of the absence of spiritual energy her destiny had intended for her — that raava's presence plays a role in the sustaining of her host's life. to sum up what i mean: raava is the vital life juice infused in the destined avatars. (roughly. it's been a while since i looked at this theory lol) therefore, while they continue to live independently of aang's actual death, raava can't move onto the next avatar until this not-avatar also dies. so they are very much dead as mako's immediate predecessor. but it's a great idea and i love that your brain thinks this way!

mako’s struggle is that outside of life-or-death combat? he’s about the same as a nonbender. because bending has always been a risk—a life threatening and life ending risk—and one he isn’t willing to take unnecessarily. his journey is learning that bending can be used for more than harm or to enforce fearful order.

oh interesting take. i can see that. in planning this au, i was thinking more among the lines of him only viewing bending other than fire to be a risk, and that he only ever figured out earthbending up until the point of where the story starts, but yeah i didn't really consider which element would be his block. he's honestly a pretty versatile guy in my opinion — i feel that he moves in a very airbender way (read: korra's spiral-motions in a leaf in the wind are meant to demonstrate her picking up mako's style of deflection, evasion, and waiting to strike), but his mannerisms are very earthbender in his stability in reality/rooted nature despite his lack of general stability in life. obviously he's got the firebender in him; i think he has a lot of pent up emotions and he generally represses them very well, but when it does get unleashed then he has a very typical-firebender explosive sort of manner. (i'm still adamantly against the take that he's a hotheaded no-thoughts raging firebender man though LMAO i don't understand how it's such a thing. sorry for the tangent. i'm resigned.) and for water, i feel it's adjacent to air in being less about head-on motions, and it's pretty reflective of mako's tendancies of roundabout-ness when it comes to matters of the heart. i don't really know how to articuate it but he has the most waterbender vibe. it's the katara so what i'm saying is that i don't really see him struggling with any of the elements in the way aang struggled with earth and korra with air, and you pose an interesting point. i'm not sure if your proposal would be in line with my current planning of this au, but it's still a really interesting idea that i'll mull over! it's a neat segway into the whole amon/equalists arc that i'd never cover but would still be set in the near future and i like the concept. thank you for sharing :)

but he looks very fire nation in canon

oh yeah i agree LOL i've seen edits of switching mako & bolin's eye colors (+ that iconic screencap from s1e2) and as much as it doesn't suit him i still stand by that he SHOULD'VE had green eyes and bolin gold. it's a small detail i've seen randomly included in a couple fics from way back when and it always makes my heart happy haha. i agree that lok dropped the ball in terms of portraying all the mixed families that exist in the series and that there was so much potential there, both with mako & bolin as main cast characters and background in the kataang kids (plus by proxy the airkids) — not just in the crossover of cultures, but just physical character design as well.

(also katara & mako parallels actually drive me crazy too lhfdhgksfjd)

(gonna be real dude by the time we finish feeding off of each other we're going to have oc-ified mako so much that he's not even from the legend of korra anymore)

i really love receiving your asks!! <33 but yeah this was a long one so it took a while to find the time to sit down & deconstruct into halfway cohesive responses. i'd love to chat about mako with u more in greater detail but it's a little bit tough with these longass askbox exchanges </3 i'll just put it out there — if you're comfortable, feel free to reach out to me from your main and we can talk through dms! and if not i'll always be happy to receive you in my inbox; just know that my responses will tend to be delayed because i have a lot going on in my life haha. it's lovely to hear from you again :)

[sugarqueen-katara]

Netflix Avatar: the Last Airbender review

So, I just got around to watching ep 1 and I wanted to share my thoughts. I'll probably do this after each episode, but I am slow at watching things so this might take a while.

To make this more fair, I'll review the show as a seperate show and then review it as an avatar fan.

Maybe minor spoilers ahead so be aware!

As an individual show:

The context was repeated many times in different ways - it was a bit overkill but as "a new viewer" it makes the situation very clear

the genocide was such an emotional scene and very well done, but a little "convenient" (Aang leaving to clear his head at the perfect time and all the airbenders being in one location at the same moment that the fire nation arrives)

the characters seem cool maybe? Don't know much about them ~ yet

The bending looks epic

Overall a good and entertaining introduction episode, interested to see where this goes.

As an avatar fan

the intro sequence being done by Kyoshi is an interesting choice. I love Kyoshi as a character, but what is her relevance to Aang's story. If they wanted to do an avatar wouldn't Roku make more sense? Also the narration no longer being Katara reflects the changes of how important her role is to the story (will talk about more later)

No major complaints about the scenes at the air temple found the whole a great addition to the story.

Ok let's address Aang's flying. So first we can all agree that it goes against LOK lore. However, the other thing that bothers me is it is not clear when he needs a glider and when he doesn't. If he could fly why does he need a glider at all?

Now for the water tribe siblings! Let's start with Sokka. Some of his jokes were good some were meh... He is just kind of a jerk ~ which obviously is also the case in the animation ~ so I guess it depends on how the other episodes explore his character and develop his arc

Now for my poor girl Katara. They fail to show her complex character. We don't get any Katara sass or anger. All we get is caring Katara. There is not this duality that we usually see with her. She was also robbed of narrator and basically main or second main character to the show. The animation sets her up as the driving force of the show, now she's just kind of there. ~ Also I wanted to address everyone complaining about Katara's actress being the weakest. So first of all please don't send hate to Kiawentiio (I saw really awful comments under her instgram post which is really no ok) - I'm not saying your not allowed to think this, but maybe don't spam it under her posts. Next, I personally haven't had an issue with her acting so far, if anything the writing probably needs to be improved. And for anyone who says she can't show emotions go watch Anne with an E to see that she can act and the issues in the LA might be with directing (maybe I'm just biased because I love that show)

Aang is ok... his fear of responsibly shows but his goofiness is absent.

Now I am not the biggest Zuko stan ( don't get me wrong his character and arc is so well done in the animation he is just not my favourite), but I feel like he is the one character that I enjoy and have no complaints about so far in the LA

There’s something off with Iroh can’t really put it into words, but he just doesn’t have the same effect with the lines he delivers (this is only the first episode so I’ll have to see if it gets better)

Now, since I am largely a kataang blog ~ yes I am disappointed with the lack of penguin sledding but more in a sense that it removes Aang’s goofy behaviour. Then again, this isn't that big of a deal. Also I enjoyed the change of gyasto helping Aang out of the avatar state (it gives a different vibe but I’m not against it).

Overall, it is 100x better than the movie. Is it perfect? Not at all. So far,I think the main problem is that they tell instead of show. If you are able to detach it from the original (which is hard for me as you can probably tell from the review) and not think about what's missing it can be really enjoyable.

These are just my opinions. If you don't agree no need to hate or argue✨✨ (I hope this isn't an issue since it is not on Twitter)

[army-of-mai-lovers]

in which I get progressively angrier at the various tropes of atla fandom misogyny

tbh I think it would serve all of us to have a larger conversation about the specific ways misogyny manifests in this fandom, because I’ve seen a lot of people who characterize themselves as feminists, many of whom are women themselves, discuss the female characters of atla/lok in misogynistic ways, and people don’t talk about it enough. 

disclaimer before I start: I’m not a woman, I’m an afab nonbinary person who is semi-closeted and thus often read as a woman. I’m speaking to things that I’ve seen that have made me uncomfy, but if any women (esp women existing along other axes of oppression, e.g. trans women, women of color, disabled women, etc) want to add onto this post, please do!

“This female character is a total badass but I’m not even a little bit interested in exploring her as a human being.” 

I’ve seen a lot of people say of various female characters in atla/lok, “I love her! She’s such a badass!” now, this statement on its own isn’t misogynistic, but it represents a pretty pervasive form of misogyny that I’ve seen leveled in large part toward the canon female love interests of one or both of the members of a popular gay ship (*cough* zukka *cough*) I’m going to use Suki as an example of this because I see it with her most often, but it can honestly be applied to nearly every female character in atla/lok. Basically, people will say that they stan Suki, but when it comes time to engage with her as an actual character, they refuse to do it. I’ve seen meta after meta about Zuko’s redemption arc, but I so rarely see people engage with Suki on any level beyond “look at this cool fight scene!” and yeah, I love a cool Suki fight scene as much as anybody else, but I’m also interested in meta and headcanons and fics about who she is as a person, when she isn’t an accessory to Sokka’s development or doing something cool. of course, the material for this kind of engagement with Suki is scant considering she doesn’t have a canon backstory (yet) (don’t let me down Faith Erin Hicks counting on you girl) but with the way I’ve seen people in this fandom expand upon canon to flesh out male characters, I know y’all have it in you to do more with Suki, and with all the female characters, than you currently do. frankly, the most engagement I’ve seen with Suki in mainstream fandom is justifying either zukki (which again, is characterizing her in relation to male characters, one of whom she barely interacts with in canon) or one of the Suki wlw pairings. which brings me to--

“I conveniently ship this female character whose canon love interest is one of the members of my favorite non-canon ship with another female character! gay rights!” 

now, I will admit, two of my favorite atla ships are yueki and mailee, and so I totally understand being interested in these characters’ dynamics, even if, as is the case with yueki, they’ve never interacted canonically. however, it becomes a problem for me when these ships are always in the background of a zukka fic. at some point, it becomes obvious that you like this ship because it gets either Zuko or Sokka’s female love interests out of the way, not because you actually think the characters would mesh well together. It’s bad form to dislike a female character because she gets in the way of your gay ship, so instead, you find another girl to pair her off with and call it a day. to be clear, I’m not saying that everybody who ships either mailee or yueki (or tysuki or maisuki or yumai or whatever other wlw rarepair involving Zuko or Sokka’s canon love interests) is nefariously trying to sideline a female character while acting publicly as if she’s is one of their faves--far from it--but it is noteworthy to me how difficult it is to find content that centers wlw ships, while it’s incredibly easy to find content that centers zukka in which mailee and/or yueki plays a background role. 

also, notice how little traction wlw Katara ships gain in this fandom. when’s the last time you saw yuetara on your dash? there’s no reason for wlw Katara ships to gain traction in a fandom that is so focused on Zuko and Sokka getting together, bc she doesn’t present an immediate obstacle to that goal (at least, not an obstacle that can be overcome by pairing her up with a woman). if you are primarily interested in Zuko and Sokka’s relationship, and your queer readings of other female characters are motivated by a desire to get them out of the way for zukka, then Katara’s canon m/f relationship isn’t a threat to you, and thus, there’s no reason to read her as potentially queer. Or even, really, to think about her at all. 

“Katara’s here but she’s not actually going to do anything, because deep down, I’m not interested in her as a person.” 

the show has an enormous amount of textual evidence to support the claim that Sokka and Katara are integral parts of each other’s lives. so, she typically makes some kind of appearance in zukka content. sometimes, her presence in the story is as an actual character with layers and nuance, someone whom Sokka cares about and who cares about Sokka in return, but also has her own life and goals outside of her brother (or other male characters, for that matter.) sometimes, however, she’s just there because halfway through writing the author remembered that Sokka actually has a sister who’s a huge part of the show they’re writing fanfiction for, and then they proceed to show her having a meetcute with Aang or helping Sokka through an emotional problem, without expressing wants or desires outside of those characters. I’m honestly really surprised that I haven’t seen more people calling out the fact that so much of Katara’s personality in fanon revolves around her connections to men? she’s Aang’s girlfriend, she’s Sokka’s sister, she’s Zuko’s bestie. never mind that in canon she spends an enormous amount of time fighting against (anachronistic, Westernized) sexism to establish herself as a person in her own right, outside of these connections. and that in canon she has such interesting complex relationships with other female characters (e.g. Toph, Kanna, Hama, Korra if you want to write lok content) or that there are a plethora of characters with whom she could have interesting relationships with in fanon (Mai, Suki, Ty Lee, Yue, Smellerbee, and if you want to write lok content, Kya II, Lin, Asami, Senna, etc). to me, the lack of fandom material exploring Katara’s relationships with other women or with herself speak to a profound indifference to Katara as a character. I’m not saying you have to like Katara or include her in everything you write, but I am asking you to consider why you don’t find her interesting outside of her relationships with men.

“I hate Katara because she talks about her mother dying too often.” 

this is something I’ve seen addressed by people far more qualified than I to address it, but I want to mention it here in part because when I asked people which fandom tropes they wanted me to talk about, this came up often, but also because I find it really disgusting that this is a thing that needs to be addressed at all. Y’all see a little girl who watched her mother be killed by the forces of an imperialist nation and say that she talks about it too much??? That is a formational, foundational event in a child’s life. Of course she’s going to talk about it. I’ve seen people say that she doesn’t talk about it that often, or that she only talks about it to connect with other victims of fn imperialism e.g. Jet and Haru, but frankly, she could speak about it every episode for no plot-significant reason whatsoever and I would still be angry to see people say she talks about it too much. And before you even bring up the Sokka comparison, people deal with grief in different ways. Sokka  repressed a lot of his grief/channeled it into being the “man” of his village because he knew that they would come for Katara next if he gave them the opportunity. he probably would talk about his mother more if a) he didn’t feel massive guilt at not being able to remember what she looked like, and b) he was allowed to be a child processing the loss of his mother instead of having to become a tiny adult when Hakoda had to leave to help fight the fn. And this gets into an intersection with fandom racism, in that white fans (esp white American fans) are incapable of relating to the structural trauma that both Sokka and Katara experience and thus can’t see the ways in which structural trauma colors every single aspect of both of their characters, leading them to flatten nuance and to have some really bad takes. And you know what, speaking of bad fandom takes--   

“Shitting on Mai because she gets in the way of my favorite Zuko ship is actually totally okay because she’s ~abusive~” 

y’all WHAT. 

ok listen, I get not liking maiko. I didn’t like it when I first got into fandom, and later I realized that while bryke cannot write romance to save their lives, fans who like maiko sure can, so I changed my tune. but if you still don’t like it, that’s fine. no skin off my back. 

what IS skin off my back is taking instances in which Mai had justified anger toward Zuko, and turning it into “Mai abused Zuko.” do you not realize how ridiculous you sound? this is another thing where I get so angry about it that I don’t know how useful my analysis is actually going to be, but I’ll do my best. numerous people have noted how analysis of Mai and Zuko’s breakup in “The Beach” or Mai being justifiably angry with him at Boiling Rock or her asking for FUCKING FRUIT in “Nightmares and Daydreams” that says that all of these events were her trying to gain control over him is....ahhh...lacking in reading comprehension, but I’d like to go a step further and talk about why y’all are so intent on taking down a girl who doesn’t show emotion in normative ways. obviously, there’s a “Zuko can do no wrong” aspect to Mai criticism (which is super weird considering how his whole arc is about how he can do lots of wrong and he has to atone for the wrong that he’s done--but that’s a separate post.) But I also see slandering Mai for not expressing her emotions normatively and not putting up with Zuko’s shit and slandering Katara for “talking about her mother too often” as two sides of the same coin. In both cases, a female character expresses emotions that make you, the viewer, uncomfortable, and so instead of attempting to understand where those emotions may have come from and why they might be manifesting the way they are, y’all just throw the whole character away. this is another instance of people in the fandom being fundamentally disinterested in engaging with the female characters of atla in a real way, except instead of shallowly “stanning” Mai, y’all hate her. so we get to this point where female characters are flattened into one of two things: perfect queens who can do no wrong, or bitches. and that’s not who they are. that’s not who anyone is. but while we as a fandom are pretty good at understanding b1 Zuko’s actions as layered and multifaceted even though he’s essentially an asshole then, few are willing to lend the same grace to any female character, least of all Mai. 

and what’s funny is sometimes this trope will intersect with “I conveniently ship this female character whose canon love interest is one of the members of my favorite non-canon ship with another female character! gay rights!”, so you’ll have someone actively calling Mai toxic/problematic/abusive, and at the same time ship her with Ty Lee? make it make sense! but then again, maybe that’s happening because y’all are fundamentally disinterested in Ty Lee as a character too. 

“I love Ty Lee so much that I’m going to treat her like an infantilized hypersexual airhead!” 

there are so many things happening in y’alls characterization of Ty Lee that I struggled to synthesize it into one quippy section header. on one hand, you have the hypersexualization, and on the other hand, you have the infantilization, which just makes the hypersexualization that much worse. 

(of course, sexualizing or hypersexualizing ANY atla character is really not the move, considering that these are child characters in a children’s show, but then again, that’s a separate post.) 

now, I understand how, from a very, very surface reading of the text, you could come to the conclusion that Ty Lee is an uncomplicated bimbo. if you grew up on Western media the way I did, you’ll know that Ty Lee has a lot of the character traits we associate with bimbos: the form-fitting pink crop top, the general conventional attractiveness, the ditzy dialogue. but if you think about it for more than three seconds, you’ll understand that Ty Lee has spent her whole life walking a tightrope, trying to please Azula and the rest of the royal family while also staying true to herself. Ty Lee and Azula’s relationship is a really complex and interesting topic that I don’t really have time to explore at the moment given how long this post is, but I’d argue that Ty Lee’s constant, vocal  adulation is at least partially a product of learning to survive at court at an early age. Like Mai, she has been forced to regulate her emotions as a member of fn nobility, but unlike Mai, she also has six sisters who look exactly like her, so she has a motivation to be more peppy and more affectionate to stand out. 

fandom does not do the work to understand Ty Lee. as is a theme with this post, fandom is actively disinterested in investigating female characters beyond a very surface level reading of them. Thus, fandom takes Ty Lee’s surface level qualities--her love of the color pink, her revealing standard outfit, and the fact that once she found a boy attractive and also once a lot of boys found her attractive--and they stretch this into “Ty Lee is basically Karen Smith from Mean Girls.” thus, Ty Lee is painted as a bimbo, or more specifically, as not smart, uncritically adoring of Azula (did y’all forget all the non-zukka bits of Boiling Rock?), and attractive to the point of hypersexualization. I saw somebody make a post that was like “I wish mailee was more popular but I’m also glad it isn’t because otherwise people would write it as Mai having to put up with her dumb gf” and honestly I have to agree!! this is one instance in which I’m glad that fandom doesn’t discuss one of my favorite characters that often because I hate the fanon interpretation of Ty Lee, I think it’s rooted in misogyny (particularly misogyny against East Asian women, which often takes the form of fetishizing them and viewing them only through a Western white male gaze)  

(side note: here at army-of-mai-lovers, we stan bimbos. bimbos are fucking awesome. I personally don’t read Ty Lee as a bimbo, but if that’s you, that’s fucking awesome. keep doing what you’re doing, queen <3 or king or monarch, it’s 2021, anyone can be a bimbo, bitches <3)

“Toph can and will destroy everyone here with her bare hands because she’s a meathead who likes to murder people and that’s it!”  

Toph is, and always has been, one of my favorite ATLA characters. My very first fic in fandom was about her, and she appears prominently in a lot of my other work as well. One thing that I am always struck by with Toph is how big a heart she has. She’s independent, yes, snarky, yes, but she cares about people--even the family that forced her to make herself smaller because they didn’t believe that their blind daughter could be powerful and strong. Her storyline is powerful and emotionally resonant, her bending is cool precisely because it’s based in a “wait and listen” approach instead of just smashing things indiscriminately, she’s great disabled rep, and overall one of the best characters in the show. 

And in fandom, she gets flattened into “snarky murder child.” 

So where does this come from? Well, as we all know, Toph was originally conceived of as a male character, and retained a lot of androgyny (or as the kids call it, Gender) when she was rewritten as a female character. There are a lot of cultural ideas about androgynous/butch women being violent, and people in fandom seem to connect that larger cultural narrative with some of Toph’s more violent moments in the show to create the meathead murder child trope, erasing her canon emotionality, softness, heart, and femininity in the process. 

This is not to say that you shouldn’t write or characterize Toph as being violent or snarky at all ever, because yeah, Toph definitely did do Earth Rumbles a lot before joining the gaang, and yeah, Toph is definitely a sarcastic person who makes fun of her friends a lot. What I am saying is that people take these traits, sans the emotional logic, marry them to their conception of androgynous/butch women as violent/unemotional/uncaring, and thus create a caricature of Toph that is not at all up to snuff. When I see Toph as a side character in a fic (because yeah, Toph never gets to be a main character, because why would a fandom obsessed with one male character in particular ever make Toph a protagonist in her own right?) she’s making fun of people, killing people, pranking people, etc, etc. She’s never talking to people about her emotions, or palling around with her found family, or showing that she cares about her friends. Everything about her relationship with her parents, her disability, her relationship to Gender, and her love of her friends is shoved aside to focus on a version of Toph that is mean and uncaring because people have gotten it into their heads that androgynous/butch women are mean and uncaring. 

again, we see a female character who does not emote normatively or in a way that makes you, the viewer, comfortable, and so you warp her character until she’s completely unrecognizable and flat. and for what? 

Azula

no, I didn’t come up with a snappy name for this section, mainly because fanon interpretations of Azula and my own feelings toward the character are...complicated. I know there were some people who wanted me to write about Azula and the intersection of misogyny and ableism in fanon interpretations of her character, but I don’t think I can deliver on that because I personally am in a period of transition with how I see Azula. that is to say, while I still like her and believe that she can be redeemed, there is a lot of merit to disliking her. the whole point of this post is that the female characters of ATLA are complex people whom the fandom flattens into stereotypes that don’t hold up to scrutiny, or dislike for reasons that don’t make sense. Azula, however, is a different case. the rise of Azula defenders and Azula stans has led to this sentiment that Azula is a 14 y/o abuse victim who shouldn’t be held accountable for her actions. it seems to me that people are reacting to a long, horrible legacy of male ATLA fans armchair diagnosing Azula with various personality disorders (and suggesting that people with those personality disorders are inherently monstrous and unlovable which ahhhh....yikes) and then saying that those personality disorders make her unlovable, which is quite obviously bad. and hey, I get loving a character that everyone else hates and maybe getting so swept up in that love that you forget that your fave is complicated and has made some unsavory choices. it sucks that fanon takes these well-written, complex villains/antiheroes and turns them into monsters with no critical thought whatsoever. but the attitude among Azula stans that her redemption shouldn’t be hard, that her being a child excuses all of the bad things that she’s done, that she is owed redemption....all of that rubs me the wrong way. I might make another post about this in the future that discusses this in more depth, but as it stands now: while I understand that there is a legacy of misogynistic, ableist, unnuanced takes on Azula, the backlash to that does not take into account the people she hurt or the fact that in ATLA she does not make the choice to pursue redemption. and yes, Zuko had help in making that choice that Azula didn’t, and yes, Azula is a victim of abuse, but in a show about children who have gone through untold horrors and still work to better the lives of the people around them, that is not enough for me to uncritically stan her. 

Conclusion    

misogyny in this fandom runs rampant. while there are some tropes of fandom misogyny that are well-documented and have been debunked numerous times, there are other, subtler forms of misogyny that as far as I know have gone completely unchecked. 

what I find so interesting about misogyny in atla fandom is that it’s clear that it’s perpetrated by people who are aware of fandom misogyny who are actively trying not to be misogynistic. when I first joined atla fandom last summer, memes about how zukka fandom was better than every other fandom because they didn’t hate the female characters who got in the way of their gay ship were extremely prevalent, and there was this sense that *this* fandom was going to model respectful, fun, feminist online fandom. not all of the topes I’ve outlined are exclusive to or even largely utilized in zukka fandom, but a lot of them are. I’ve been in and out of fandom since I was eleven years old, and most of the fandom spaces I’ve been in have been majority-female, and all of them have been incredibly misogynistic. and I always want to know why. why, in these communities created in large part by women, in large part for women, does misogyny run wild? what I realize now is that there’s never going to be a one-size fits all answer to that question. what’s true for 1D fandom on Wattpad in 2012 is absolutely not true for atla fandom on tumblr in 2021. the answers that I’ve cobbled together for previous fandoms don’t work here. 

so, why is atla fandom like this? why did the dream of a feminist fandom almost entirely focused on the romantic relationship between two male characters fall apart? honestly, I think the notion that zukka fandom ever was this way was horrifically ignorant to begin with. from my very first moment in the fandom, I was seeing racism, widespread sexualization of minors, and yes, misogyny. these aspects of the fandom weren’t talked about as much as the crocverse or other, much more fun aspects. further, atla (specifically zukka) fandom misogyny often doesn’t look like the fandom misogyny we’ve become familiar with from like, Sherlock fandom or what have you. for the most part, people don’t actively hate Suki, they just “stan” without actually caring about her. they hate Mai because they believe in treating male victims of abuse equally. they’re not characterizing Toph poorly, they’re writing her as a “strong woman.” in short, people are misogynistic, and then invoke a shallow, incomplete interpretation of feminist theory to shield themselves from accusations of misogyny. it’s not unlike the way some people will invoke a shallow, incomplete interpretation of critical race theory to shield themselves from accusations of racism, or how they’ll talk about “freedom of speech” and “the suppression of women’s sexuality” to justify sexualizing minors. the performance of feminism and antiracism is what’s important, not the actual practice. 

if you’ve made it this far, first off, hi, thanks so much for reading, I know this was a lot. second, I would seriously encourage you to be aware of these fandom tropes and to call them out when you see them. elevate the voices of fans who do the work of bringing the female characters of atla to life. invest in the wlw ships in this fandom. drop a kudos and a comment on a rangshi fic (please, drop a kudos and a comment on a rangshi fic). read some yuetara. let’s all be honest about where we are now, and try to do better in the future. I believe in us. 

[kataraslove]

Lok fandom for the ask game!

this was so far back in my inbox, apologies bestie!

favourite character: probably jinora and tenzin!! but i also really love mako, korra, asami, opal, kya, and bumi!!

least favourite character: varrick and kuvira….

character i find most attractive: hello tonraq and senna are the most gorgeous couple ever. I’m bisexual for those two especially. also asami is canonically the most gorgeous character in the avatarverse so.

character I would marry: again tonraq is the whole package. sexy, a good father, a good husband, a great waterbender like why wouldn’t you want him??? but also asami too bc Women in Stem.

character I would be best friends with: mako!!! just so that I can clown him with love ❤️

a random thought: ikki would definitely be the sapphic aunt in the family when she grows up.

unpopular opinion: book 1 was the best season

my canon otp(s): korrasami, adult kataang, kainora. Was about to say wuko but I forgot that wasn’t canon 😭

my non-canon otps: wuko, korpal, ming’li

most badass character: MING HUA!!!! no one is doing it like her I’m afraid.

also korra and jinora!!

most epic villain: ming hua, amon, and p’li. zaheer would’ve been cool too if his philosophy and political alignment wasn’t all over the place 🥴 but again ming hua is destroying everyone no questions asked so she is first place.

pairing I am not a fan of: Bopal (blegh, dictionary definition of comphet on opal’s part). also zhurrick is cute in the comics but wtf was that romance in the show 😭

character I feel the writers screwed over: is there a character that bryke didn’t screw over in that series?? the old gaang, first and foremost. also the graphic detail in which korra was tortured felt extremely odd. and it’s so bizarre because for so many characters the camera would pan away when they were being wounded right? but not Korra’s case. the writers went out of their way to ensure that the audience see that she be tortured in every single detail; from electrocution, to poison, to beating her up AFTER she was poisoned, to the way raava was ripped out of her. it almost felt like the show (or the writers, for that matter) were making a point, that she deserved to go through this intense suffering because of the mistakes she made in the earlier seasons. i really loved book 1 korra; she was the right amount of intense, loud, and energetic, while at the same time being compassionate and kind. so to see that bright-eyed version of korra get the shit beat out of her in an act of humbling, so that she can learn what true compassion was? i cant get behind that.

favourite friendship: korra and katara, korra and tenzin, katara and jinora, korra and aang, korra and mako, korra and bolin, tenzin, kya, and bumi. there’s so many!!!

character I most identify with: bumi and mako bc eldest sibling rep, and asami bc i respect her grind.

character I wish I could be: again!! asami!! i want to be Rich and Powerful and Smart and have korra as a girlfriend/wife.

[helbertinelli]

got to be honest heroes are allowed to be flawed and make mistakes the notion that zuko doing actual bad things and trying to kill people while mako just mishandling the situation are different because zuko was a villain is annoying because people treated mako as if he was a villain and demonized him giving him the ron the death eater treatment ( vilifying him and trying to make him out to be a bad person when in the end he was a good person just one who made mistakes the narrative always acknowledged his flaws to be flaws he needed to be worked on him not being specifically punished after b1 and having good things happen to him is not being rewarded for his flaws ( korrasami amounted to a last minute retcon that broke the narrative which led to the idea of makorra getting back together the buildup to korrasami was nonexistent they were barely friends and nothing they had compared to mako and korras moments ( this notion that mako ending up single was karma for his mistakes is bs and by that logic korrra shouldhave been single because she was just as responsible for the love triangle when she forcibly kissed him after mako talk . ( when people try to push that mako deserved it because of his dithering behavior I go then zuko should have died in the end of b3 of atla as punishment for not going with the gaang in b2 emotional turmoil or conflict is irrelevant if its irrelevant that mako didnt mean to hurt anyone or that he was emotional conflict involving his desire for stability the show should have ended with makorra getting back together and asami single ( she doesnt need a romantic relationship she had been most of the time only used for romantic drama in b1 and b2 and just being thrown in at the last minute with korra in an ooc scene korrasami required korra being ooc mako deserved better

People didn't like Mako because he was a cheater. He can be a hero, but he's also a cheater, and people don't usually like cheaters. Especially when they don't do anything to get redeemed. I understand having flaws, but heroes also learn from their flaws. Mako didn't. He saw how much it hurt Asami when he cheated on her the first time. He saw how happy Asami was to get back with him, but he still cheated on her. The "didn't mean to hurt anyone" thing really loses its meaning if Mako keeps constantly hurting Asami and cheating on her despite seeing it causes her harm. There's ways to be a flawed character without being a total dick. I used to like Mako at first, but he's not a good guy. He never learns from his mistakes and he doesn't really care about anyone else other than himself (he cheated on Asami to be with Korra, twice, and when Bolin needed help getting out of his abusive relationship, Mako just ignored him). LoK never made Mako take responsibility for his actions. They just continued to ignore that what he did was wrong and everyone was pretty much cool with him again. It's just the story started treating him like a joke because Bryke didn't care about the story as long as it was something that pleased the fans. Zuko's situation was different than Mako's. We see and know Zuko's reasons for being a bad guy. He's introduced to us as the bad guy (whereas Mako is supposed to be the good guy). Zuko had a whole redemption arc happening before people started liking him. That isn't to say that people don't excuse a lot of Zuko's behavior while demonizing other characters (Aang, Katara, and so on). Zuko was also younger than Mako. I think he's like 16, while Mako is like 18. Also, Zuko didn't cheat on Mai. People would have probably liked him just as much as Mako if he became a cheater, too. I agree with you that the story was unfair to Mako in Book 3 and 4. If he ended up single, Korra should have ended up single as well, because she was just as guilty as Mako for hurting Asami. She knew well enough that Mako is dating Asami the first time they cheated, but she didn't care about anyone else's feelings. Korra wasn't a good person either, but she kept getting constantly rewarded and praised for being a bad person and a bad avatar. Sadly, the only way Bryke knew how to deal with conflict was to ignore it. That's why Korra and Mako never got any better and why so many people dislike both of them.

[imreallyhereforkataang]

I'm unsure about how's the best way to articulate this, but I'm kind of surprised there's not more fan content highlighting the otherworldly aspects of Kataang, and a part of me wishes we could see a bit more of that.

I'd expect that most if not all fandoms frequently have an affinity for glamorizing aesthetics of characters and ships, and content creators who I know often look for ways to convey that sort of thing. I've also witnessed lots of people on this site claim that they first became attracted to a ship for its aesthetic because they saw embellishing artwork that didn't really highlight much about the characters' personalities, but was still gorgeous and impressive to look at.

And yeah, it makes sense that content creators and consumers in fandom engage with works that make epic an idea that may be primarily based off the “what” of the characters, or the situations they find themselves in, rather than the finer details of the “who.” The resulting creation is similar to what happens when the personal elements of a legend get lost over time, while the sensational aspects continue to be retold and glorified. That sort of thing makes for extremely intriguing depictions of the original source material, even if it’s at the expense of some of the subject’s humanity. Though, even when that depiction becomes so far removed from the original that it's totally unrecognizable, I do think it's often still fascinating and creative, and maybe should be its own celebrated thing altogether.

It's just surprising to me, and kind of disappointing if I'm honest, that, based on the relative lack of fan content doing this, many people seem to either not recognize or not act upon how Kataang has that exact aesthetic potential.

If you were to keep the basics of their story intact but tell it through a different lens or genre, maybe dramatize it a bit, it would be so easy to emphasize how Kataang is literally like a demigod and a mortal falling in love. That on its own to me sounds like the premise for the epic love story fandom culture would traditionally find appealing. And it's really not much of a stretch -- that is one legitimate way to look at the pairing if you broke it down to its objective pieces, even if it's not the most focused-on part of their relationship in the original material (though it certainly is alluded to). The source material is much more detailed and personal, like watching a show where Oma and Shu are the main characters versus hearing the major beats of their legend.

For Kataang, we can definitely take it further with drawing out their major beats. The mortal comes into her own and is shown to be a force of comparable measure to the demigod, as she is his self-appointed protectress. She releases him from dormancy, bringing him back into the world to fulfill his grand destiny, and on their quest, she would become his teacher, both in training and in reacquainting himself with the new era. At one point she would even revive him and his line of divinity after watching him be struck down and killed. This mortal is his first devotee, and his personal connection with her makes her his attachment to the world and, in extension, the mortals he protects.

Meanwhile, the demigod is the personification of the mortal's faith, a vessel of the compassion she feels so deeply for others. He takes her places, literally and metaphorically, she never could have gone before, teaching her in turn about lost practices and new perspectives. He can legitimately bring her to the skies with a unique ability that no one else in the entire world possesses -- an ability that also defines much of what he stands for and what her world has been missing in his absence.

Not to mention how the mortal was one of the only people who believed this demigod would resurface, and the only person by his side from the start of meeting him in their warring environment. The two were born nearly 100 years apart, yet their connection and love is shown to transcend both time and space. Their elements and roles to the world and to each other can be represented by synergistic air and water, which are associated in canon with freedom/peace and change/virtue, respectively. And if one were going to dramatize Kataang's relationship and what it stands for, their exchange could reasonably be depicted as the bridge between the heavens and the earth (moon and ocean).  

Like, truly, their story is so mythical. The pieces are there. Think about how their theme is called "The Avatar's Love" and segments of that theme are reused for LoK, pointing to Aang's reincarnation cycle and how the love he feels transcends so many lifetimes, but he chooses Katara in this particular one. Think about what Yangchen says to Aang about the reason the Avatar is born a human and not a spirit, that the Avatar must live amongst humans and experience human emotions to recognize how precious the life is that the universe entrusts him with protecting. Think about Aang's chakras in The Guru, and not just the Love and Thought Chakras but nearly all of them, and how truly tied Katara is with his energy, his spirit. That can't be faked -- that's real, genuine influence, her touching his life in ways that highlight his humanity. Think about how Aang has a real-time vision of Katara without even intending to, and the only other being we see Aang do something similar (but intentionally) with is Appa, to whom Pathik says, "You and the Avatar's energies are mixed. You have an unbreakable bond."  

Think about the Pietà pose in The Crossroads of Destiny and all that symbolizes about Aang and Katara (honestly that alone should be enough because it speaks volumes), including their world savior/first believer dynamic. How Katara brings Aang back to life and says, "I don't know what I did exactly," thus giving fuel to the idea that saving him didn't just constitute normal healing on her end. Think about the visual parallel between her resurrecting him and her releasing him from stasis in the first episode. Think about Katara's extended opening narration in the pilot and how it evolves to when she meets Aang, with just as much trust in an idea as in what ends up being the real thing.  

Think about their relationship when Aang goes into the Avatar State, embodying his most divine form. How Katara is able to speak with and approach him, and how he can hear her and respond to her while in that state, honing all his past lives. Think about when Aang deals the heavy attack at Fong's base that would continue to haunt Aang for so long afterwards, which showcases how out of control he is here, yet his blow from all Avatars completely and deliberately avoids Katara while targeting everyone remotely near her. Think about how Katara is so unafraid of a raging demigod, even when the person underneath hasn't been acting like himself lately, that she doesn't flinch at the output of his anger and just goes to him as everyone else runs. Think about that visual where she grabs onto his arms and pulls him from the air that only he can bend to the ground she's tied to and into her arms. Think about how she always tries to catch him when he falls, because she is adamant about being his cushion to the earth.

Think about how Aang is the reason Katara gets to touch the heavens. Think about how he takes her on an epic journey across the world so she can learn waterbending and make the difference she's always wanted. How being with him, the one person with a divinely granted duty to the world and who will always choose her, puts her right on the foreground for making that difference. Think about how they can still waterbend together even if Katara can't airbend -- no one can besides Aang. Think about their push and pull of the water and how it highlights their equal footing, and that although, as the demigod he is, Aang can master all the elements, Katara is the mortal who teaches him mastery in the one they share between them.

I don't know, to me it's all so cool and awe-inspiring. Obviously the most important part of Kataang's relationship is how their personalities play off each other and how they treat each other, but in terms of this kind of grander depiction, I think of it more like Oma and Shu. We don’t know the details of how Oma and Shu acted towards each other, yet we hear the story about the power of their love and take inspiration from it.

So yes, I unfortunately don’t see this pronounced demigod/mortal iteration of Kataang very often in fan works, but it makes for a pretty dang fascinating legend to contemplate anyhow.

[saltyaboutfictionalcharacters]

Something that really bugs me is how both the shows and the comics go out of their way to show that Aang's fans dislike Katara. On Kyoshi Island they get upset when Katara asks Aang to help her. Meng from the Fortuneteller's village is incredibly jealous and calls Katara a floozy (which means slut) EVEN AFTER Katara is kind to her. The Air Acolytes in the comics are extremely disrespectful and unkind to her, and in LOK they don't really give a shit about her or her two children that don't Airbend. She's also the only one of the Gaang who doesn't get a statue.

But every time this happens, Aang is totally fine with her (and later her children) being disrespected. He ignores her when they want his attention, never tells them off for saying rude shit to her, and talks about how much he loves being around them while Katara sits at the sidelines, upset and ignored. No WONDER he never told them about his two older children. It never occurred to him. And, considering how disrespectful the first Air Acolytes were to Katara, it's no wonder she didn't insist on them knowing about her other kids.

And she's the only one of the Gaang we see in LOK who's not considered a legend. It's just a given that she'll dedicate the rest of her life to raising and training Aang's reincarnation, isolated from her family and desperately lonely because she was apparently a stay at home mom suffering from empty nest syndrome. It's a given that she won't be at her own granddaughter's mastery ceremony--after all, that ceremony is about AANG AND TENZIN'S legacy, not hers. It's just a given that she won't have a legacy that approaches Aang's or Toph's or Zuko's or even Sokka's. She's just totally cool with being relegated to the healing huts and "leaving it to the kids."

Katara deserved so much better.

[ljf613]

Colonization & Imperialism in ATLA

One of the things I’ve noticed in fandom complaints about the ATLA comics-- namely, “The Promise”-- and subsequently, LOK’s worldbuilding, is the way the narrative handles colonization. 

I see a lot about how what the Earth Kingdom chose to do with the former colonies is “none of Zuko’s (or Aang’s) business.” (I also see people talking about how Katara would never support colonialism, in any shape or form, no matter the circumstances.) 

And I just.... don’t vibe with those ideas? At all? 

Like, I definitely have problems with the comics-- especially “The Promise,” where all the drama centers around Miscommunications of Epic Proportions and could have been resolved in Part One if all the characters just sat down and listened to each other (not to mention that Aang would never have agreed to make that promise, nor would Zuko have asked it of him (Sokka would be a more obvious choice, but that’s a different discussion))-- but I never had any issues with their worldbuilding. 

I love the idea of Yu Dao, and the fact that the narrative acknowledges that a new kind of world has new kinds of problems. It makes sense to me that we can’t always just “give back the land we took.” And I found the idea of the end solution being  “give the people who live there their own country” really cool and empowering. 

So I want to talk about why I feel this way. About what kind of real-world parallels can be made here. About some little-known bits of world-history that compare. 

(Please note that for this meta I am only going to be discussing the relationship between Fire Nation and the Earth Kingdom. As far as I am aware-- and I could be wrong-- there is no real-world genocide quite comparible to what Sozin did to the Air Nomads, and most of the people alive in ATLA were not actually around for or involved in that. And the relationship the Fire Nation has with the Water Tribes-- and that the North and South have with each other-- is worth a whole separate analysis, and doesn’t deserve to just be shoved into this one.)

(Disclaimer: While this is in response to some of the interpretations I’ve seen on this site, it is not meant to discount or invalidate those fans’ views-- I’m just trying to show my take on it. I am a firm believer in the power of active discourse, and the value of looking at the same scenes through different lenses, rather than just getting one opinion and accepting it as Absolute Truth.) 

The main thing I notice in general ATLA discourse-- and not just on this topic, but in any sort of meta about the Fire Nation, colonization, and global impact-- is that the fandom mostly compares the war and its after-affects to real-world Imperialism, the Age of Imperialism, New Imperialism, and Colonization. 

And I understand why that is. In the grand scheme of world history, that era is still fairly recent, and we are still dealing with the afteraffects from it. It has shaped the Western World’s worldview on every level. (Not to mention that the Euro-centric way we’re taught history means that this piece of world history is the one we’re most exposed to, and so have the most understanding of and room to analyze/criticize.) 

However, there are a few issues with sticking only to this perspective. 

First off, the Age of Imperialism was a direct response to the Age of Exploration. This was the period of time when white Europeans sailed around the world acting as though they were discovering new places and pretending that there weren’t already existing civilizations there. 

[ID: Two dots meme, edited so that Guy A says “i’ve discovered a NEW WORLD,” Guy B replies “you didn’t discover ****,” and Guy A insists “i’ve discovered it” / End ID.] 

Now, I’ve mentioned this in passing, but the world of ATLA doesn’t appear to have had an Age of Exploration. There’s no vast “undiscovered” land masses, the four nations have always known about each other, and they all have a shared language. 

The whole foundation for the Age of Imperialism was “oh, look, there are all these ‘unexplored’ lands with resources ripe for the picking (who cares about the indigenous people, they’re just simplistic savages who don’t know what’s best for them), let’s see which European country can grab the most land first.” 

This was a race. This was sudden. This was Europeans coming in and taking over while viewing the natives as bothersome pests. This was about multiple major world powers competing over resources. 

This was not 100 years of active warfare between a single conquering country and the very people they were trying to conquer. 

The parallels don’t hold up. 

Secondly, by focussing only on this one kind of historical narrative, we ignore any others. 

I will admit that I have used the word “imperialism” in reference to the Fire Nation a time or two. However, upon further reflection, I realize I didn’t really mean imperialism, which is actually a fairly modern concept. What I feel the Fire Nation is really an example of is centralism and expansionism-- two ideaologies that have been a way of life for conquering empires throughout history. 

(I am in no way qualified to explain the differences between these concepts-- I recommend doing your own research if you’re curious.) 

The Persian Empire. The Greek Empire. The Roman Empire. The Byzantine Empire. The Mongolian Empire. The Russian Empire. The First French Empire. 

You could take any of these (or numerous others) and make an interesting analysis between the similarities and differences between their behaviors and that of the Fire Nation. And maybe I’ll do that someday. 

However, I started this to talk about Yu Dao and all of the other so-called colonies (I really feel like territories would be a better word, but, again, that’s a whole ’nother discussion), and I’d like to focus on that. 

FYI, here’s a basic history refresher: If two countries are at war, and then they decide to end the war, neither country is required to return captured territories. They can make a treaty and agree to do so, but there is no obligation to. The Fire Nation didn’t just march in and say, “this is our land now”-- they fought for it. They captured that land. Just because the war is over doesn’t mean they need to just give it back. 

Like it or not, that is the way the world operated for thousands of years, and so that is the interpretation I’m working with here. 

In any case, “The Promise” actually presents this as a three-way conversation. There’s Zuko (and, by default, the Fire Nation), Kuei (and, by default, Ba Sing Se and the Earth Kingdom), and the people of Yu Dao themselves. 

(My understanding of the Earth Kingdom’s style of government is that it’s made up of a large collection of different ethno-cultural regions who all answer to Ba Sing Se.) 

I’ll let Sokka explain it: 

[ID: Comic panel from Part Three of “The Promise.” Sokka and Katara are talking, both in obvious states of agitation, while Suki and Toph are looking at something in the background. Sokka is saying, “Let me see if I got this. The protestors and the Earth Kingdom Army want the colonials to go, the Fire Nation Army wants the colonials to stay, and the Yu Dao Resistance just want their city to be left alone?” Katara responds, “Yes!” / End ID.] 

The people of Yu Dao don’t care about the war. They don’t even really care who’s in charge. They just want to be left alone. 

This speaks to me on a very personal level, so I’m going to make another real-world comparison here: 

My ancestors first came to America to escape from the poverty and opression they were experiencing in a place known as “White Russia”-- that is, Belarus. To be clear, I am not talking about the country “Belarus,” but the region, which includes the modern-day countries of Lithuania, Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia and Moldova, as well as parts of Poland and Russia. 

I looked up White Russia, trying to find out how much information someone who didn’t grow up hearing stories about what it was like (that is, most of the people reading this,) might have. I didn’t find much. Most of what I found talked about political ideologies and such-- things that your average poor peasant, struggling just eke out a living, didn’t have much energy to care about. So let me paint a(n oversimplified) picture for you. 

Imagine you’re a poor shoemaker in a small town on the Russian border. You spend your days hard at work, trying to earn a living to support your wife and nine children. You’ve never left the town you were born in. One day you get the news: Russia and Poland are fighting again. Your two oldest sons (ages 15 and 17) are forcibly drafted off to fight in the Russian army; you never see them again and have no way of knowing if they’re dead or alive (they’re probably dead). Poland wins-- this time. Congratulations, your town is now part of Poland. 

Does suddenly being Polish make a difference to your life? Not in the slightest. Two or three years down the line, you’ll go back to being part of Russia again. This is the third or fourth time you’ve seen your town switch hands, and you can’t say you prefer one government over the other. It doesn’t really matter who’s in charge-- you’re still faced with crippling taxes, forced drafts, and various other forms of oppression. (It doesn’t help that you happen to be part of a persecuted minority.) 

(This is why I have many ancestors who may never have left the town they were born in, and yet records show that they were born in one country, got married in another, and died in a third.) 

This is the kind of worldview through which I am looking at Yu Dao. (Obviously, it’s not an exact parallel, but neither is the standard “colonizers vs oppressed natives” lens.) 

My ancestors eventually got fed up with the treatment they were receiving from their respective governments, and left to build a new life, in a new place. But the citizens of Yu Dao don’t have anywhere to go. The only two real world powers in this story are the Fire Nation and the Earth Kingdom, neither of which has ever before expressed any true interest or concern in the actual people of Yu Dao. 

The Earth Kingdom didn’t really care about the city before the war-- they were just another poor, struggling town, whose citizens were barely able to make ends meet. And while the Fire Nation may have helped the place grow into a bustling town, they also established a hierarchy that did not serve in the citizens’ best interests. 

And so, in “The Promise,” these citizens’ frustrations come to a head. “Enough,” they say, “we don’t want to be used as a pawn in your games anymore.” 

And Zuko and Kuei (and Aang) actually listen. They say “we need to start thinking about these people as people, not as symbols of one side or the other. It’s time to give them a say in their future.” 

And a new country-- a new way of life-- is born. 

(Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But it is constantly evolving and changing, trying to do better, be better. And that’s more than you can say about most of the other countries in this world.)

[theotherace]

I also just finished lok and just read all your posts of you dragging it and it was so funny and sadly so true. why was it so bad? it didn’t have to be as good as atla, very few things are but to be that bad was disheartening and what they tried to do to the gaang just made me angry, who was that person called toph? why doesn’t anyone mention sokka? why was kataang such terrible parents? and why did they have such awful children?

Lin was the most interesting but i don’t know if she was as interesting as I thought or I just loved her out of spite, the show tried so hard to frame her as just a bitter selfish hag who deserved the shitty family she had and can’t get over her asshole ex who liked much younger women that I decided I was going to love her but I’m so disappointed that there is really no character to ship her with, and practically nothing about her that it’s not about her great love story with Kya? The what now? Are the shippers so desperate for a w|w ship?? And did they just close their eyes and pick two women who never had a scene together and ‘who is even that lady’ is a good reaction about kya.

Well, look at us, watching LoK ten years after everybody else did, haha. Honestly, I didn't expect or need it to be as good as ATLA. Very few things will probably ever be, in my eyes, not only because it's a very good show, but also because I'm looking at it very nostalgically, and because this is the first fandom I'm really deeply involved in. It means a lot to me, I learned a lot while being part of the fandom.

The comparison to ATLA certainly does LoK no favours, and I do think I would dislike it less if it were its own show, but it is not, and I don't think I'm being unfair when I compare the two. They're connected. This is more or less a direct sequel. And it didn't do a good job at being a sequel.

I'm honestly tired of "Oh, this character you loved? Terrible parent actually". It annoyed me when I read Cursed Child, and I hated it with Aang and Toph. There's other ways to further develop characters, and this can't possibly be the only flaw people can think of. Toph was also incredibly mean and empathyless, which is uncharacteristic for her. That kid had such a big heart. Sure she was rough, but she also absolutely had compassion and empathy for those she loved. And even those she didn't, if we remember her talk with Iroh. The Gaang really was done dirty in LoK.

And Lin is absolutely one of my favourite LoK characters as well, and she was treated unfairly by the story at times, but I do honestly think that my liking her has a lot to do with the characters she's surrounded by. I wouldn't have paid too much attention to her in another show, I don't think. Maybe an "Oh, that lady's cool, I guess", but she certainly wouldn't be my favourite character had she been in ATLA or Gravity Falls or what have you.

And hey, shipping's not everything! Lin doesn't seem terribly unsatisfied with her life. If anything, I'm a little annoyed by everything having to be about shipping, because sometimes it does feel like people don't know how to otherwise engage with a character, and that saddens me. I will say, though, that I don't mind people shipping her with Kya. Shipping two people who rarely or never interact isn't really my problem; you can still think their personalities would go interesting together. I would be a terrible hypocrite if I said anything against that, seeing as I'm the sole Teophaang shipper, and I don't think Teo and Toph ever exchanged a word on screen. Kya just has no personality. So I don't mind the fandom putting some work into her, I actually find that admirable, and maybe there's more to her in the comics; maybe she and Lin interact more there. I know she's canonically a lesbian, apparently, so at least they're not shipping her with some random guy. I was really more expressing surprise about how popular this ship seems to be -- almost every bit of LoK fan content surprises me, frankly, now that I've seen the show. There is so much about Izumi, I see her all the time, and she literally only talks once in the whole four seasons of LoK. Again, this fandom works hard, and I have nothing but respect for that, even if I wish they'd gotten a show that gave back a little more.

Thank you for your ask! I'm not sure I actually replied properly to everything, but this i long enough for now, haha.

[spookyboogie3]

The trope Last Minute Hookup shouldn’t be used for LGBTQ+ relationships.

AND DEFENDING MY LAST POST ABOUT THIS.

I DO NOT hate any of these pairings. A good many of them could have been handled differently by the creators, writers, and networks. But this isnt me hating the relationships or characters or shows. Just going off about how they shouldnt have been tacked on at the end of their respective series. 

As of writing this all of these shows have ended their original runs. Except for Supernatural which is on its last few episodes. And Supergirl, which announced its coming to end with season 6.

LGBTQ characters and relationships aren’t as common in the media as straight-cis characters and relationships. Sure things are improving but a lot of networks and writers still don’t fully understand why representation is important why they can’t keep using the same throwaway tropes they’ve been using for the straight-cis relationships.

You could name any piece of media and find and name one character that isn’t LGBTQ+, but you can’t do this with LGBTQ+ characters. We haven’t gotten to the point where they are as common as non-LGBTQ characters.

I have a whole paper I wrote on why asexual representation is important to have in the media and the same logic applies to any part of the LGBTQ+ or anything that falls under minority.

Back to the topic on hand. The trope of “Last Minute Hookup.”

Its exactly what it sounds like. Characters get to together at the very end of the story. These characters could have a on and off again relationship, lots of ship teasing, the classic “Will They or Wont They?” trope. What makes it different for non-LGBT characters in relationships to do this, we know what these relationships look like. Not to say the that both Non and LGBT relationship cant have similar struggles, however members of the LGBTQ+ community know how hard it is to feel like your identity and self matters and is normal.

I know that the whole “will they, wont they” thing is done for drama and networks and showrunners think if they give the fans what they want that they’ll start losing viewers and they have nothing to look forward to. Which is true to some degree. But most of this comes from the writers not knowing how to fucking write relationships.

Let’s just focus on whats it like to be in a non-straight relationship.

Heres an example: you have an action series, with 2 male leads and halfway through the show, they get together. Cool. Now you have a Battle Couple.

By making LGBTQ relationships happen at the end of a series that’s already had plenty of other non-LGBTQ relationships happen before it, it makes it look like the people in charge don’t care for it or were afraid of backlash. But it’s the end of the series so its not like they can get the show cancelled or anything. (The only people who are going to lash out at LGBT couple or characters are homophobic people, we don’t want them around any way so just make stuff super gay, so they’ll leave)

This is especially a problem when the writer and network have spent the whole series queerbaiting the audience with these characters.

 Side note for anyone is doesn’t actually know what queerbaiting is:

It’s a marketing technique used in entertainment, which the writer or creators hint at but then don’t actually depict sex-same romance or LGBTQ representation. They do this to attract (bait) the LGBT/queer or straight ally audience into the show with the suggestion of representation but at the same time avoiding this as not alienate other audience members *cough* (homophobes) *cough*

Definition is from Wikipedia, not a reliable source says my highschool teachers and college professors but fuck em

The Legend of Korra is a great example of Last-Minute Hookup. Korra and Asami had VERY little ship teasing, and that was in the last 2 books/seasons. Any thing that was perceived as romantic came from the fans wearing shipping goggles. So to a lot of people just casually watching, yes this looked like it came out of nowhere. Nickelodeon had some serious balls to say how brave they were for putting 2 girls into a romantic relationship.

Theres a few problems with this.

A. It never actually aired on TV (to my knowledge). The last 2 seasons of Korra were put on Nicks website.

B. The confirmation that this Korrasami was canon had to come from the creators on twitter because of how unclear it was.

C. The show did the bare minimum when it came to hooking them up in the series. They walk off holding hands (very cute btw). They didn’t even get a kiss. Aang and Katara had a Last Minute Hookup at the end of ATLA after 3 seasons of ship tease and THEY GOT A KISS. Hell the original end of LoK*, has Korra and Mako kissing. *(the first season, they didn’t know they were getting more seasons at the time, no matter what you hear the writers say, they’re full of shit)

D. Anything continuation of Korra has come in the form of comics, which her and Asami are in a fairly well written relationship. Yes, they do kiss. Yes it would’ve been great to see this stuff happen in series.

A show that handles this a little bit better is Adventure Time. Not by much though. It implied several times that Princess Bubblegum and Marceline have history together and its shown more and more in its last few seasons that there is some ship tease happening. However its not until the finale where they kiss, and they are shown in the last minute of the show cuddling together in Marcy’s house. HBO has picked up Adventure Time and has a miniseries called Adventure Time: Distant Lands, where Bubblegum and Marceline’s past relationship is shown.  

I had brought up in my original post about being upset with networks making LGBTQ+ relationships canon in the last season/episode. I originally had Catradora tagged. While Catra and Adora have history together, they did not become official couple until the end of the series.

Yes, I was wrong about the network making things canon in the last episode as they’ve always had ship tease with each other, and it probably was the writers’ intent to put them together by the end. They do technically fall under the Last-Minute Hookup, however.

I wanna talk about Once Upon a Time really quick. Fans of the show were hoping and wishing for an LGBTQ couple for the show as a lot of characters, especially Regina and Emma, have alot Ho Yay moments. The showrunners weren’t going to put those two together, for whatever reasons they may have for that (im indifferent on all the shipping going on with this show). The showrunners thought to put two characters together, and hoo boy did it not make people happy. The characters they put together are Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz and Ruby the red riding hood, which would be fine if they had properly been developed.

The entire episode they did this in was a mess. They stopped the current arc during the season 5 episode ‘Ruby Slippers,’ to go over the characters that haven’t been seen in years, Dorothy was introduced and last seen in season 3, and Ruby was introduced in season 1 and was last seen in season 5 before ‘Ruby Slippers’. The characters get together in the same episode the meet in and are never seen again. The characters barely interacted, barely got along, and showed little to no ship tease or interest in each other and BOOM they are in love and together aaaaaannnnndd they’re gone. Other than having One Million Moms, a Christian fundamentalist organization, protest against the show and want it taken off the air (yes this really happened). The fans weren’t please with this development of the characters either.  

(also Mulan was right there and already knew Ruby from a previous episode, and Mulan already is established to like girls as shown by her being in love with Aurora. Don’t know why the writers didn’t just put these 2 together but whatever I guess)

So they tried again in season 7 with MadArcher. The characters of Alice, a version of Alice in Wonderland from another realm (its complicated) and Robin, the daughter of Robin Hood and the Wicked Witch (it’s also complicated). And the writers did a lot better here. Both characters were allowed to have time together and have a history together too and it was done over the whole season. Not just one episode.

Now even though the writers decided to do something different with the last season and it could be detached from the previous 6 seasons, MadArcher is not really a Last Minute Hookup per say but still falls under my thing about it being the last season so who gives a fuck if One Million Moms gets mad us and tries to get us cancelled again.

 I would like to say I have never watched a single episode of Supernatural in my life. I may one day. But as of right now my knowledge of it is coming primary from what ive seen on tumblr. You know a great source for doing research and looking for reliable information among the piles of shitposting.

From what I know from fans, the writers of Supernatural have been queer baiting for years. I mean it’s the CW, I’m not that surprised. What also wouldn’t surprise me, that by the end of the series Castiel is back and he and Dean actually start and relationship or strongly hint at starting one. I actually fear for the writer lives if they threw out a confession scene after years of queerbaiting and potential ship tease (debatable) and they don’t put them together. Fans are going to be angrier than they probably ever have been with this show and the showrunners and writers really would be known for queer baiting.

From what I know about how previous shows have done and if anyone that has ever worked on this show wants to continue living, Castiel will be back from Super Hell (is that what yall are calling it?) and he will get together with Dean. And they will fall under the Last-Minute Hookup trope and my networks make LGBTQ relationships canon last season.

 One last show I want to talk about is Supergirl, which in has been recently announced that the 6th season will be the last. The show started on CBS but moved to the CW after the end of season 1. So more CW bullshit. There is no confirmation about whether the CW or any of the Supergirl writers are planning to do this, its all speculation. Supergirl is more LGBTQ friendly than some other shows on the Network. One of the main characters came out a few years ago and had a girlfriend a season and has had plenty of hookups with other ladies around the Arrowverse. They even introduced a trans-woman superhero in the form of Dreamer.

Let’s talk SuperCorp. Lena Luthor was introduced in the 2nd season and has been a major character in Kara’s life ever since her introduction. Even if she isn’t involved in the plot, Kara always goes to her to talk and check in on her and worry about her. They are best friends. Since the 2 have met, there has been plenty of Les Yay going on. The writers seem to be aware of the fans wanting SuperCorp to be canon and they keep throwing in moments like Kara and Lena struggling together or Kara carrying Lena bridal style.

Why I bring this up after the announcement of Supergirl’s final season to start next year. We may get SuperCorp. Kara has a relationship with William in the show and not a single person likes this relationship. The writers may scrap it and get put Kara and Lena together for the final season. This is a big maybe though. The Supergirl writers and crew get called out a lot for queerbaiting.

   Let me know if you guys have any other examples of last season/last episode LGBTQ+ hookup.

And please let me know if you see any mistakes. This was all done in one sitting so I may have some things wrong.

Also check out the video by @aretheygayvideos on this topic too.

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[britesparc]

Weekend Top Ten #484

Top Ten Times Loki Should Visit in His New Show

I don’t think anyone’s going to believe me, but I absolutely called the D.B. Cooper thing. Seriously; the bit in the trailer, with him jumping out the plane? “Hey,” I said to myself, as no one I know in real life actually wants to hear me talk about the MCU, “Hey, leaping out of a plane with loads of money only to disappear? That sounds like D.B. Cooper! I bet they’re going to say that Loki is D.B. Cooper!” Well, reader, I was right. If only I had some syndicated newspaper column in which I could have publicly predicted that. Then they’d know. Oh, they’d know all right.

I also theorised, it must be said, that based on “Loki is Cooper” he’d also be inserting himself into other mysteries throughout history. Given that the Cooper scene appears to have taken place in Loki’s actual past and didn’t involve time travel, maybe we can rule that out. Or maybe not? Who knows?!

Generally speaking it seems people are raving about Loki following the first two episodes (although critics got to watch the first two so maybe that does make a difference). Personally, I was a touch disappointed, although my expectations were high. It's difficult to parse my reaction, as I'm not sure if it’s legitimate criticism of the episode as presented (I felt it was rather slow) or rather my dislike of the premise as currently presented. I'm sure this is all part of some unfolding mystery, about which I have my own theories, but I'm not a fan of “prime timeline” or “single universe” plots in fiction, especially large-scale fiction like the MCU. I think it tends to be limiting and just ends up with people being forced to create woolly concepts such as hypertime or anti-matter universes to justify their stories. Also, it feels like time travel as depicted in Loki thus far operates differently to its depiction in Avengers: Endgame, and seems way more magical and hand-wavy; I actually really, really liked the whole “each decision creates a branching timeline but you can’t change your own past” premise. So, like I say (Loki say?), I'm not sure if my lukewarm (Lok-warm?) reaction is genuine critique or just personal preference. Having said all that, Tom Hiddleston and Owen Wilson were just fantastic and have a great chemistry, and I'm looking forward to seeing where they go from here. Also, the show just looks and sounds great. I'm all for a hyper-technological, seemingly-magical future-world that looks just like a department store from 1981.

So, where is the show going to go from here? Or, I guess, when is the show going to go? Because the thought of Loki bopping around the history of the MCU is really intriguing. And so – even if this doesn't end up being the actual plot of the show – this week's list is full of my thoughts for which time zones I’d like to see Loki gatecrash. Part of this is just which places/times I’d like to see; and part of it is which eras I think it would be cool for Loki to visit. Maybe there are characters there for him to interact with; maybe it offers some insight into Loki himself. But mostly the point of this list is to get one character in particular into the MCU. You'll know who I mean.

Before we jump headlong into the actual list, I do want to pose one question; or maybe it’s just a thought. In Endgame, Steve Rogers goes back in time and lives a life with Peggy Carter. There's been debate since the film came out about whether this was an alternate timeline, or “our” timeline; we know Peggy married, so was her husband (in the “mainline” MCU that we’ve followed so far in the movies) always secretly Steve? Does that even possibly make sense? How could Steve not have tried to rescue Bucky or stop Hydra? Personally I think it makes more sense that it’s an alternate timeline; except wouldn’t the TVA have erased it? Where and when did Old Steve come from on that famous park bench? And where did he go? I do wonder if any of these questions will be answered in Loki.

Anyway. The list. Loki goes to...

The Cretaceous Period: the MCU meets Jurassic Park! Perhaps Star-Lord could inexplicably cameo just for the hilarious in-joke? Imagine Loki attempting to not step on any butterflies while Agent Mobius gets good-naturedly exasperated. But really there’s only one reason for a Marvel character to visit caveman times, and that’s for a Devil Dinosaur cameo. You know you want to.

Lindisfarne in the 8th Century: Loki is a Norse God, which means he’s sort of a Viking. Or, at least, was worshipped by the Vikings. We’ve seen relatively little of the Scandinavian countries, or examined their relationship to these otherworldly creatures, apart from New Asgard being in Norway and the fact that Stellan Skarsgård is around. So it’d be interesting for Loki to crop in Actual Viking Times, and the raid of Lindisfarne would be a good opportunity to look at that. There are connotations of “barbarians raiding Christianity” and all that, and the more violent excesses of Viking culture, and how Loki (the “real” person) could fit into all that given his status as a legend. Also: get more of the North East on screen.

Salem in the 17th Century: the Salem Witch Trials are always a good opportunity for storytelling, and Loki is actually magic (and his mum was a witch, right?). So not only is there fun to be had in Loki being all magic at a time when magic was frowned upon (and – hey – Mobius’ sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic too, right?) but there’s the added bonus of shoehorning in an Agatha Harkness cameo.

The Caribbean in the 18th Century: pirates! Imagine Loki as a pirate? They have to go off out on a boat for some reason! That’d be good, wouldn’t it? Some pseudo-Pirates of the Caribbean shenanigans could go down. Maybe for some reason Loki has to do a shit Captain Jack impression? I’m gonna be honest here, I don’t really know of any actual pirate characters from the Marvel Universe; in the DCU, you have the Black Pirate Jon Valor, who I only really know about because he’s referenced in The Return of Bruce Wayne. But maybe I’m just not well-read enough. Anyway: Pirate Loki. Sounds fun.

The Wild West in the 19th Century: what’s better than pirates? Cowboys. So let’s stick Loki in the Wild West, riding along on horseback with Mobius like they’re in Wild Wild West or something. Again we have Loki taken to a situation or scenario that’s really outside of what we’ve seen before, and giving him an opportunity to act up. Again, I’m more aware of DC’s Western characters (Jonah Hex, for instance), but a quick Google informs me that the Two-Gun Kid was a character created by Stan and Jack in the sixties, so he’d be a fun cameo. But what would be even cooler here is if there was a cameo from a wealthy Canadian called John Howlett. Imagine how that would set the internet alight.

Tunguska, 1908: okay, I’ll admit; I’m moving through different thought processes in this list. We’ve gone from a big Marvel cameo (Devil Dinosaur) through to “it’d be fun if Loki was a pirate/cowboy/etc”, to a couple here which is “conspiracy theories in my teenage X-Files addled brain”. The Tunguska blast in 1908 is a famous mystery – was it a meteor? Was it an alien? – and, a bit like Loki as D.B. Cooper, is a good opportunity to stick Loki into established history as a kind of cause of this huge nuclear-style blast in Northern Russia. Perhaps this could be some kind of enormous battle with the big baddie of the piece (that alternate, murderous “Loki”?). There might be some kind of fun way to tie this into the events of Black Widow, perhaps the mystery prompting Russia to create some kind of department or agency to investigate paranormal activities, which ends up becoming the whole “Red Room” stuff by the time of the Soviets.

Roswell, 1949: see what I mean? Big X-Files conspiracies. Hey, if Star Trek can do it, so can the MCU. I think Loki crashing a spacecraft from the future might be a bit on-the-nose, but perhaps there could be some kind of scenario where Mobius (or some other ally) is captured by the government and Loki has to break them out. Also gives us an opportunity for Agent Carter to make a cameo. Maybe Area 51 is one of the first SHIELD bases?

New York, 1962: so I was thinking about the 21st Century and where else would be fun for Loki to pop up. A good one would have been, I thought, him ending up as the guy on the grassy knoll in Dallas in 1963. But this would be an even better place to crop up, both as part of the MCU’s history and also as a kind of meta-fictional “birth of Marvel” era. Imagine Loki running around sixties New York, trying to avoid Agent Carter (who’d be, I guess, fifty?) and her nascent SHIELD agents, but also bumping up against references to Marvel itself? Maybe a funny cameo from “Stan” and “Jack”? Maybe the Baxter Building makes an appearance? Hey, what if – hear me out – what if there’s a reference to the Fantastic Four, who were erased from time by the TVA? And then, right at the end of the whole series, something or other happens that brings them back? Okay, I’ve gone crazy now. But I still think sixties MCU New York is a fun place to see Loki.

New York, 2099: hey, 2099! It doesn’t feel quite as futuristic as it did thirty years ago or whatever (back when Iron Man of 2020 was seriously in the future), but it still offers an insight into where the MCU might end up. I’m not sure the Sony dealings would allow a cameo from Spider-Man of 2099, but from the range of 2099 books that Marvel published in the nineties, we could still get the futuristic versions of the Punisher, or Doom, or whatever. Stan Lee created a character called Ravage, who didn’t (as far as I know) have a “contemporary” analogue, so they might be a good one to pop up in the “future”. And seeing a kind of Akira/Blade Runner/Coruscant-style sci-fi cityscape in the MCU would be quite good fun.

8162: and we’re back to proper wish-fulfilment “I just wanna see this character” stuff. 8162 is where Death’s Head ended up in his first miniseries thirty years ago. It’s a totally wacky, anything-goes style of future, way more out there than 2099, which is recognisable as the current world but a bit sci-fi. Here there are toad people and dudes with horse heads. But the opportunity to see Death’s Head make an MCU debut – especially if he’s hunting Loki, and our favourite misanthropic godling has to take cover with the Dragon’s Claws – would something very special indeed. Yes?

[meggannn]

thank god im not the only other asian girl who came to realize how weirdly orientalist atla/lok is.

i hope you don’t mind me using this ask as a springboard to get some of my thoughts down (i edited this once and that fucked up the read more, so i tried several times to put this behind a cut again but tumblr hates me so i guess now everyone has to read my beef ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

my friend said last night that ATLA is like the new harry potter with the way people talk about it and..... yknow she’s not entirely wrong.....

like, not to keep pulling this card, but ~as a half-asian~, i have been struggling with this show a lot over the past few months; before even the show came to netflix, i was seeing a resurgence of ATLA stan culture. the hype of the live-action series and the release of the kyoshi novels have also amplified this. i reblog posts because i do still enjoy it, but i have been abstaining from reblogging commentary that so obviously glorifies it.

part of this burst-bubble effect is my problem, because i strongly dislike how people talk about certain characters and ships (and i admit that frustration is seeping through what ATLA did right) and observing fandom favorites makes me think that a lot of points were missed: people love toph, but hate korra (even people who think they love korra only because she’s one half of korrasami, actually do hate korra lmfao); people love zuko but completely ignore aang; don’t get me started on the fandom’s embracing of korrasami/subsequent forgiving of the patronizing, disrespectful, borderline racist way bryke did it. that is fan behavior, and it all bothers me and is no doubt coloring my judgment of the actual show, but beyond that, i also do want people to realize and accept “wait a minute, plenty of the things we criticize other media for also exist in ATLA, and it shouldn’t be different just because this show is full of asians.”

part of me wants to — and does — celebrate that a pan-asian show, in which NO white characters and NO trace of western culture exists, was a critical and commercial success in 2005! and had full network support and resonated with kids of different backgrounds. i can appreciate and be happy of that. but “no western culture” doesn’t mean “no western influence”: it’s an asian fantasy world created by non-asians, so the staff still ultimately wrote a pretty western story. the treatment of the fire lord imperialist dynasty is the big one (iroh was a war criminal who only left the warfront because his actions affected him/his family but now he’s a old friendly Good Guy and never acknowledges the lives he’s ruined! everything is ok now that zuko is fire lord! not like his new friends will have any direct trauma or conflicting feelings with how he is now heading a nation that burned two out of three of their homelands to the ground and tried to burn the third too! now here are all our headcanons about katara/sokka being fire lord/lady, toph being a fire lord advisor, and aang being an air nation rep to the fire nation! perfect ending!!), but also the themes of a pretty straightforward good kids v evil conqueror story, watered-down concepts of buddhism/taoism/others for child consumption — some of these are not strictly bad things, but they don’t make it the best story in the world. they are not worth saying “stop watching x problematic cartoon, watch ATLA, the BEST cartoon with the BEST diversity!!!!”

side note, my friend looked it up last night and there was a total of one asian writer on the staff, May Chan, who according to wiki, just wrote the Boiling Rock episodes. (at this juncture i want to keep in mind that someone in the writer’s or developer’s room might be in my situation, possibly mixed race but white-passing in both face and name... it’d be hypocritical of me to not consider that possibility, but as far as i know that’s not the case, and in any respect i think it’s important to have visible diversity, not because i think mixed people don’t have anything to say or shouldn’t be counted, but in the sense that poc who don’t get the luxury of being white-passing should be allowed control of depicting people who look like them. but that’s another discussion.)

honestly, i can look over some aspects of this show because i still do enjoy it. i like the use of martial arts as a fantastical magic device because it was used consistently and clearly they did their research, even if it does kind represent this idea of Asia, the Land of Magic Powers; i don’t mind because not everyone has the magic powers, the magic powers are deconstructed, people without the magic powers are still treated respectfully, the magic powers are diverse, and they are treated both practically and spiritually (so not everyone, like sokka, has the same awe-inspiring respect of them, which is realistic characterization to this world, and though he’s sometimes portrayed as incorrect in his disbelief of the spiritual, he’s never portrayed as wrong for being practical and realistic). honestly, i don’t mind the oohs and aahs of these magic powers because i still think the magic powers are pretty fuckin cool; it’s likely we’ve all pretended to be a bender at some point lol. and as a kid, i didn’t mind that ATLA nations blended cultures; i thought it was fun to look up later and see which sorts of things were made up and which were influenced by real things (i liked that not a lot if it was made up). i don’t mind that Lake Laogai was named after a real, horrifying place, though i understand and completely respect that plenty of others find the name disturbing and tasteless.

that said, as an adult coming to ATLA for the first time, I would probably not go this hard for a show that blends a bunch of real ethnicities together in a hodgepodge of culture clashes, at least not one spearheaded by a white developer team. i would be less willing to ignore the northern air temple episode, where aang, victim of a genocide, forgives a bunch of strangers who disrespected and destroyed his home (including the guy who was NOW INVENTING WAR WEAPONS FOR THE VERY NATION THAT DESTROYED HIS PEOPLE). i can mostly look over these things because of nostalgia. but the way people outright stan the whole avatar series (including LOK but i won’t get into that right now) without acknowledging ATLA is, ultimately, still a story with a pretty western handling of its themes just with asian faces, is..... frustrating.

a new coworker of mine, also an asian woman who was too old to watch ATLA at the time it was airing, has said that the more she learns about ATLA as an adult the weirder she feels about it and less inclined she is to watch it, which makes me think that maybe i’m not crazy.

[sparklegemstone]

Taking a break from work so time to write up more of my Loki trailer thoughts since all the cool cats around here seem to be doing it :-D.

In chronological order:

1) Personally I was 'meh' about the trailer starting with the Endgame scene just because I think the Russos did a terrible job matching the tone of that scene with the tone of the original Avengers film's conclusion and I want the Loki series to feel like a continuation of Avengers.  Alas, the Endgame scene grates on me as feeling inauthentic to the story it's supposed to take place in.  But I certainly understand the practicality of needing to put it in to give the audience the context for when/how this new story with Loki is taking place.

2) But five seconds later on the other side of the wormhole…yay, Kate Herron fixed the tone!  This feels much closer in tone to when Thor and Lok depart for Asgard at the end of Avengers.  Excellent job Kate.

3) Was so pleasantly surprised by Owen Wilson's portrayal!  Very different than any of the comedic characters I strongly associate the actor's acting style with.  I like his character a lot with what we've been given so far.  It's instructive reflecting back on the potential concerns I had and that were being discussed in the fandom when we were working with scraps and rumors that we now know don't have merit: things like 'Hiddleston is only there to narrate the series' and 'How comedic in tone is this going to be if Waldron from Rick and Morty is hiring Owen Wilson?'.  Ah the good old days of baseless speculation.

 4) I mentioned the frequently low camera position in another post -- it does a poor job of conveying how Loki carries himself, tall and straight and elegant.  It makes him seem more ordinary, but maybe that's the point -- equalizing him with Mobius rather than it being an Asgardian in a non-Asgardian's presence.

5) The way Loki goes from locked down and not letting any sense of what's going on his head slip to Mobius (what I feel is in-character for Loki) to suddenly being a lot more open with what he's actually feeling and having less guarded, more friendly/casual attitude toward Mobius is weird to me.  I think it's a cut just for the trailer and hopefully it will make more sense in context, but Hiddleston's acting here and the way he has no qualms about being physically guided out of the elevator by Mobius is one of the points where it felt more like Hiddleston playing a different character than playing Loki to me (and lacking Loki's costuming doesn't help that perception certainly).  Which I know is nitpicky, but I was just curious to see to what degree this would actually feel like 'fresh off of Avengers' Loki and so I'm paying close attention to what feels in and out of character for me.  Does Mobius say something to really throw Loki for a loop that would cause him to drop his guard like that?

6) "Glorious" -> YAASSSS that's the Loki I wanted to recognize.  He's back!  I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around how blessed I am, but we've got him back for more screen time.  Also, with him back in Stark Tower and the later image of post-apocalyptic Manhattan, I am super intrigued by the possibility of Loki (and me too!) experiencing different ways things could have played out on Earth, if he'd succeeded in his conquest for example.

7) Loki's going to learn about what happened in the main timeline and the choices he made in the future?!  That's huge!  Should be a fascinating character moment.  This bit of Loki turning away from the projector gives me a lot of hope that the writing in the show is actually going to explore, honor, and authentically run with where Loki was as a character at the end of Avengers and the context of what he experienced rather than Marvel just plopping the "general" character of Loki into a genre-fied crime thriller show basically disconnected from the events of Thor and Avengers so they can say they made a Loki show.

8) Do I like Loki in the beige detective jacket?  Nah, not really.  But I do appreciate that even with the earth costume they kept Loki's style of being completely covered up.  Also creates contrast with him not being in control when he's in the TVA prisoner jumpsuit that has short sleeves.

9) Thought that was Nat on Voromir at first because of the purple environment.  Been reading some thoughts on how that's probably not Nat, and while the theories make sense, if that's true, why would Marvel put in a shot of a character that looks so much like Nat that it would cause confusion and maybe get her fans' hopes up?

10) I agree with @delyth88​ on the D.B. Cooper scene.  Didn't think I'd want Loki looking like Hiddleston, but I don't mind it / it's not taking me out of the scene as I might have expected.

11) The fight choreo and edit into the twirling -- I already discussed this before, but the physicality of it is giving me human-strength!Loki vibes.  If instead the guy he's fighting is also super strong, wouldn't the plastic or metal disc thing between them break upon impact?  Also the fact that it seems implied that Loki would get hurt by jumping out of the plane w/o Heimdall’s help to catch him.

12) The twirling -- is Loki legitimately, celebratorily, uninhibitedly happy?  I feel like we've never seen him like that since the Thor cut scene before they all made that fateful trip to Jotunheim.  I read a theory that the roman numerals on the building in this frame might mean he is in Pompeii the year the volcano erupts, which is interesting.

13) Loki saying "Brother”,  “Heimdall", coordinating with at least Heimdall, traveling on the Bifrost -- HOPE!  BEAUTIFUL, WONDERFUL, HOPE!  I was honestly expecting the show to make no mention of anything connected to Asgard, except maybe segueing into Thor 4 at the very end, so the fact that Loki is (indirectly) interacting with Heimdall -- calling Thor "Brother" (even if not to Thor) !!!!!!!!!!!! -- interesting!  

14) The idea of him being D.B. Cooper is very fun! (though I didn't know who that was in advance).  It's very easy to pretend that Loki is real and has been an unidentified part of our history all along.

15) I do not like the last scene with comics!Loki suddenly being brought to life.  In fact I had a very kneejerk dislike of it the first couple times I watched the trailer (so many watches ago :-P) because it presses a very personal button of mine, which is how the MCU is moving toward becoming more spectacle-driven and comic-book-y and therefore away from the grounded, character driven storytelling that I enjoy about the MCU.  I'm here for the character of Loki that I love as he is already established in the MCU, not the comics versions of the character.  Also, IMO the acting is out of character for MCU Loki and more goofy.

That said, I'm hopeful context will help a whole bunch here as @iamanartichoke​ has said.  Given all the timey-wimey multiverse shenanigans, it's probably not even Avengers!Loki anyway, and I'm certainly not going to begrudge the many fans who are excited to see comics references on screen.

Overall impression?  Very excited, very hopeful.  Would I selfishly want a story that's just a direct continuation of the Avengers and hyper focused on the exact context of the character of Loki as he was in Avengers, fleshing out the off-screen bits and up-until-now only implied emotional impact of what Loki experienced between the end of Thor and the start of Avengers, digging into his relationships with the Black Order, and family, reconciling with his heritage?  Uh…duh ;-).  

But you have to give an audience what they need as opposed to what they think they want, and from a craft perspective, this has to be its own story.  The Thor and Avengers stories are their own stories, they're told, they're done, even if certain emotional threads were left hanging / implied / off-screen that we as very detail-oriented Loki fans would like to see dealt with explicitly.

But given that this was always going to be its own story, I'm very hopeful that the series has an explicit creative goal of telling a story that also does a great job with emotional continuity and exploring the fallout of Thor and Avengers and what that means for Loki's character; of honoring, picking up from, and running with Loki as a character in the context of who he was when he surrendered to the Avengers and where he goes from there.

The Marvel Studios executives could have easily decided to make an isolated story featuring Loki that general MCU fans that don't think overly deeply about the character would have been very happy with and probably it would be very successful, and I would have gladly taken that over nothing.  But I'm optimistic that that isn't what we're getting and that they chose to ground their story in the specific context of Loki's character.  We'll see!