#tmnt discourse?

[catcake24]

Okay so I’m only kind of into Rottmnt and tmnt 2012, but I came across some old discourse and so I wanted to share my opinion no one asked for lol

Basically a lot of fans argue that the Rise turtles would be more powerful or better fighters then the other continuities, because they were created to be great warriors and were able to become heroes even without a lot of training, with the addition of their ninpo which allows them to basically have magic. However, I disagree. (Explanation under the cut)

In martial arts movies and anime, one thing that is repeated a lot is that martial arts technique, skill, and training, always overcomes raw power. Dragon Ball Z shows this brilliantly in its early arcs - Goku fought warriors from other planets who had superior power used power levels as a way of determining strength, but beat their asses because he was a better fighter in martial arts technique and trained more. He wasn’t more powerful, but instead put in the work to be a better fighter.

So the way I see it, turtles like the TMNT 2012 (or almost any other continuity really) would be overall better fighters than the ROTTMNT turtles. It wouldn’t be EASY, and they definitely wouldn’t win the first time they fight since they don’t know what they’re going up against, but they trump the ROTTMNT turtles with sheer experience, skill, and training. It’s shown in the 2012 show that they put effort every day into their skills by training against one another and learning new skills, and it takes April a long time before she even starts approaching the turtles in skill, and they have fought (and beaten) magical/more powerful opponents before.

Meanwhile the Rottmnt turtles have much more situational skill, and their ninpo helps a lot, but are shown that their training is much less rigorous and that they often win because of their enemies having a weakness or some other outside advantage rather than overcoming them on their own. It’s why the finale hits so hard, they are out of other options and need to tap into their own inner power to win. I’m not saying wither show is better or worse for this, just how I see it and how writing conventions of both shows would play into this.

The Rottmnt turtles would go into this overconfident and loose, to comedic effect, while the 2012 turtles tend to be under confident and win by using their skills and teamwork.

Also the whole ROTTMNT vs TMNT 2012 “rivalry” is dumb and I hate it (and was why I left the fandom, it just became too common to see in fanfic and got really toxic). Just let them be friends after beating eachother up like every other action show crossover.

[cupcakeslushie]

I’ve been debating on saying something because I have a lot of thoughts about this, but I just want to say a quick (maybe not so quick) thought…

“Comfort Character” is not a declaration of ownership. Just because you relate to a character deeply, and see yourself in them, does not mean you get to go around policing the stories that get told regarding them, or the how they’re depicted in said stories.

I wanna be clear. Im not saying you can’t pose genuine questions and have perfectly reasonable discussions about the intricacies of hard topics. In fact, fiction can even help make those discussions easier to digest by lowering the stakes, because there are not any actual stakes when none of it is real.

Unfortunately, I’ve been seeing the entire opposite. People taking stories that may make them “uncomfy”, and declaring that they’ve now decided they are taking it personally, to near obsessive levels. You are not the only one allowed to play with these characters. It is a huge sandbox, and these toys are mass produced enough for everyone to have their own doll to do with whatever they’d like.

I get you might see yourself in a character, but that doesn’t give you the right to go around sending death threats just because someone wrote, or drew your current blorbo in an unfavorable light. Prioritizing some cluster of lines and colors over the mental health and safety of actual real human beings, is worse than whatever fictional, moral “atrocity” that you think you’re championing against. You only end up sounding just like the people calling for book banning in schools.

You are not the character. You are not being hurt. The character is not even being hurt, because they do not in fact, exist to actually experience any of the pain creators are putting them through. And most importantly, you have no claim on how other people entertain themselves with said character. Because that is what these characters are. Entertainment. They can be used in good or bad stories. If you don’t like how a creator is using them. Move on. Don’t send death threats or attacks.

Block and filter your tags.

I have triggers, but that is my issue to control and maintain. It is appreciated when steps are taken by creators to help me avoid the things that trigger me, but I don’t wish death and pain on anyone who doesn’t view the world through the same lens as myself, and might not have considered my own personal feelings on the matter. My feelings of unease or anxiety from coming into contact with my own triggers, might be valid, but initiating an attack on a creator, because I took a personal offense to their story, is not. I do not outright assume that something was created with me and my tastes in mind.

Also, this is not aimed at any one person. This is a rampant issue that I have seen first hand, going back all the way to more than a year ago. I’ve seen it happen in multiple fandoms, but as I spend most of my time in the Rise fandom, that’s where I see the worst of it. I’ve received attacks, I know other creators have received attacks, and if this keeps up, creators will just stop wanting to share anything at all.

I also need to emphasize, I’m not mad. This is not a lashing out. This is just a frustrating and hurtful trend to constantly witness, when creators are putting their own heart, time, and energy into creating intriguing and complex works of all kinds in order to broaden the beauty of this fandom, and they’re getting anonymous messages to kill themselves.

Please think about the real life person behind the art and stories you are consuming, instead of prioritizing the fictional comfort of made up characters inside the story, that will in actuality, never have any opinions on what’s being done to them. Because they do not exist.

[derekfoxwit]

How Animation Discourse Can Feel At Times: The Complete Collection

[donniepods]

I see WAY too much rise!April x the turtles (especially apriltello, mainly on Pinterest and the hellhole known as tiktok) so above is Ron Corcillo and Russ Carney (Rise crew!!) confirming that April and the turtles see each other as siblings!

And in the season two finale, Karai literally says “our family” while taking to April

“You have always been one of us…” ughhhhhhhhhhggghhh I LOVE the found family trope!!!!

[majachee]

HOW COME she shows up for only ONE EPISODE... SHE IS SO CUTE... BRING ME BACK MY LESBIANS.

[whyamiheretumbled]

Okay hot take but after seeing like the callout post remnants imo y'all bullied a person who cannot be above the age of 15(and even that's generous) off the internet for being emotionally dysregulated, misinformed, and making a silly callout post.

TO ADD the people harrasing this minor are not only grown ass adults, but grown ass adults with Major following accounts like pastellian or lemillion...and as much as I disagree with the nature of the post, harrasing a minor off the internet, when you claim to follow the "block" and ",do not harras" rule while harrasing and NOT BLOCKING is geuinley insane behaviour and the worst shit i have seen

Geuinley where was this energy when sarathewizard drew blackface...? Oh? What's that? Nobody cared? Oh okay then

[raeofsunshine-ew]

*big sigh*

Oh my favorite ao3 fic 'too many turtles' by DysfunctionalRequest we're really in it now-

[antispopausandstuff]

here's the thing:

if the show really wanted Catra to hurt Adora, then fine.

but the problem is that there is no remorse.

bear with me, but let's look at the 2007 TMNT movie for comparison.

Raph and Leo were at odds, because Raph was hurt that Leo left and then came back expecting everything to be more or less the same, while Leo was hurt that Raph seemed to hate him for trying to be a better leader for him and the others.

in Leo's time away, Raph became a vigilante, which could've ended badly for their family ( they were in hiding ), and Leo had a justifiable reason to be angry about it, but Raph had a justifiable reason to be angry at Leo, too.

they were both in the wrong and in the right, in a sense.

however, after their verbal and physical fight, Raph's senses began to click in and he realized that he had just hurt Leo. while he wanted to show that he was better off without him, Raph never wanted to hurt his brother to prove that. at the same time, Leo realized just how strong his little brother had gotten in his time away, so, maybe he didn't need actually him anymore.

Raph runs away, because he realized he messed up. we see it in his face, the realization, processing what he just did, and how he's essentially afraid of that.

we don't see this with Catra. if Catra had a moment of anger, where she hurt Adora really badly, but came with this realization of what exactly she's doing, then sympathy and growth would have more room for her. but the problem is that none of this exists.

even when they're young, Catra never apologizes to Adora for hurting her in any way. it's always Adora apologizing for making Catra upset about this or that, even when, most of the time, didn't actually do anything to Catra herself.

and, when they're older, Catra still doesn't actually hold herself accountable for anything, while Raph is wracked with guilt over Leo and him being kidnapped, not being able to save him. it's to the point where Raph is completely self-deprecating, saying he understands why Splinter chose Leo as the better son, when that isn't the case.

if you want a hotheaded character to hurt someone and be redeemed, then you have to show them having remorse for the actions they took. unless it was justified, obviously.

honestly, if c//a's dynamic was inspired by Leo and Raph's in the movie, then Catra would've garnered a lot of empathy from me, too. but it's more of a bastardization, if anything.

[shiveagit]

*call back to Mk's plan to dress up as staff. Prev || Next

Parallel story || @chiscribbs Security @broken-slime-boi

@tmntaucompetition in need of more staff.

[quadrantadvisor]

I feel like these days we get so much criticism of the dynamics in 2012 that the characters get kind of flattened by the fandom, so I wanna say that 2012 Raph is not just a one-dimensional bully character, he's got a lot more caring and emotional intelligence than he gets credit for. Yeah, he has an obvious protective streak, but even beyond that, he's always his brother's number one supporter, even when he disagrees with them.

He's highly critical of Mikey's desire to make human friends, but when Mikey goes out to do it anyways and it blows up in his face with Bradford, Raph is the one to comfort him and tell him he deserves better.

He thinks Donnie's crush on April is delusional, but helps him out at every chance he gets, removing Donnie from embarrassing situations of talking him up in front of April. When Casey comes into the picture, Raph tells him point blank that it doesn't matter that they're best friends, and it doesn't matter how bad Donnie's chances are, Raph's on Donnie's side in this.

And when Leo starts sneaking out to see Karai, Raph is the one who notices, tells him off, and tries to get him to stop. He doesn't tell anyone else, though. He wants Leo to make good choices, but he respects him enough to let him make bad ones without getting the rest of the family involved. They'd all be on Raph's side, but he doesn't need them to all gang up on Leo like that, even if he's not listening.

Basically, Raph cares about his brothers, including their emotional well-being, even when it's not obvious. And yeah we should criticize the writing and how harsh it gets and how there's no resolution to the ways certain characters are treated, but I get tired of seeing complex characters be villainized and sometimes I just wanna read fanfiction that is nice?????? So that's my thesis I guess lol

[sp4cec4se]

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[matsaysyes]

I beg all Leosagi fans to read this post. Rottmnt fans need to stop tagging Leo x Yuchi Usagi as Leosagi. The tmnt 2003 fans already have Leo x Miyamoto Usagi tagged as Leosagi.

To end this confusion fans even offered up alternative ship names and Leochi/Leoichi was chosen. Stop clogging the Leosagi tag when that ship name refers to a different ship.

To clarify things for the rottmnt fans: Miyamoto Usagi is not an oc. He is not an adult in the 2003 version, he is a teenager.

People also need to stop tagging Miyamoto Usagi AND Yuichi Usagi on posts about Leoichi/Leochi. People who are just fans of Usagi Yojimbo (the comic Miyamoto Usagi is from) already have to dig through 2003 Leosagi stuff. They shouldn’t have to dig through stuff not even about the same character.

[felixblankspace]

Usagi's age in TMNT 2003 is not confirmed

And actually, Usagi's age IN GENERAL is not confirmed. Miyamoto Usagi have no canon age, not even in the comics-

You assume he is and adult but mere subtext- and a lot of people who read the comics have our own hc with his age, but as a canon answer theres none-

I bring this topic to the table since I found someone on tiktok -again- saying that Miyamoto Usagi in TMNT 2003 was an adult and that's why they hated Leosagi- and putting this google answer as a prove to their point-

This answer when you click it- it sends you to this tumblr page where is an anon who is making that claim-

I said, with all my respect- that is not a valid answer-

This is not an attack the account that has that post but mf google for putting that as an answer to the search- cuz people don't know Usagi as a character and are going to belive anything if it fits the narrative they want to create or try to justify that they don't like something-

Usagi in the crossover with TMNT 2003 is not the same from the comics- his story is also change to fit in the battle nexus arc-

HE LOOKS LIKE THIS 3 YEARS BEFORE EVEN KNOWING LEO- He don't have his daisho is this, he's literally fighting the shit he's using to carry the water or whatever he's carrying. They said he was IN TRAINING- and Usagi in training was a kid The topknot can be more of a branding thing but also can be a form to said he is not the tiniest Usagi you can get (?

When we see him later in the episode he don't have his scar-

Is a really early Usagi and a lot of people don't get that- Or is not that they don't it because they need an excuse to not liking Leosagi but really-

You.Don't.Need.An.Excuse.To.Not-Like.A.Ship

Just- Just don't watch it???

Silence the f world for the gods sake-

Even if it is problematic you can just leave it there the shit is not killing your granma (?

You can make Leosagi problematic for a thousand and one reasons, but in this version, the one that has made the most effort to mix both universes and making a genuine friendship between Leo and Usagi with its good dose of homoeroticism, it's stupid to try to justify that you don't like it by saying that It's wrong when you don't need an excuse for it-

Sorry for my rant, I'm using this to make a tiktok cuz they need this the most (? I know Usagi's age had being a debate in here too but my gods I just need this (?

[chubbibunni]

Hey man could you maybe write some personality in that character besides being arm candy to another male lead and maybe explore his insecurities and strengths and how the horrors™️ bring out both sides of him thanks

[baxterstockmanisthecenterfold]

crazy that a bunch of people who love the freak guy also want to get freaky with the freak guy who could've foreseen this /lh

ok but freaky Guy has a literal (more fuckable) human form right there

why do yall want the more unhygenic option

[koolaidashley]

Are you still mad about the fries 🥺

Do these crisp fresh crunchy perfect beautiful golden fries scare you ???!! BOO BITCH 💀