#to lose his cultivation

[asideoftrashplease]

Detangling JC, his motivations, & his feelings on WWX (i)

JC and WWX have a very fraught history, and while WWX’s role as the narrator makes it very clear what his feelings towards JC are, JC’s feelings towards WWX and motivations seem a lot murkier. He goes from treating WWX as a brother, to mounting a siege in a concerted attempt to take his life. His actions and motivations in the aftermath of WWX’s resurrection are also subject to interpretation. This meta provides argument for my interpretation of his feelings and motivations throughout these events.

LOVE AND BROTHERHOOD

It is clear from the outset that JC cared deeply about WWX (I wish I did not have to make a case for this because it should be obvious, but there are some who believe that JC did not love WWX). Although he holds bitterness and resentment towards WWX due to his family situation and their rivalry, he cares about WWX and is protective of him. This shines through especially in times of mortal peril. 

When WWX was trapped in the Xuanwu cave, he travelled without stopping to find people to rescue WWX. The trip should have taken 10 days, but because he drove himself to exhaustion in his desperation to save WWX, he only took 7 days.

When WWX is in danger of being discovered by the Wens after the burning of Lotus Pier, he uses himself as bait to draw them away from WWX despite the risk to his own life, which eventually leads to his capture and the loss of his core.

SO WHERE DID THINGS GO WRONG

Things started to take a turn after the Sunshot Campaign. I believe a few key events caused resentment and confusion to build and grow in JC over time:

WWX’s refusal to carry his sword, which put political pressure on YMJ

His decision to break out the Wen Remnants, without consulting or informing JC, with put more pressure on YMJ

His decision to defect from YMJ, effectively (in JC’s mind) picking the Wens over YMJ and his brotherhood with JC

His actions at Qiongqi Path which killed JZX — while we know from WWX’s POV what happened, JC and JYL have no idea what went down except from the claims of the surviving Jin cultivators

His attack on the 4000 cultivators at the Nightless City, which ultimately cost JYL’s life

It’s evident that JC is increasingly bewildered, angered, and hurt by WWX’s actions. It’s clear that he’s confused, and just CAN’T UNDERSTAND WHY WWX IS ACTING THIS WAY. All the while, resentment is building in him that he has to clean up WWX’s messes, all while WWX’s actions undermine him as a leader and brings up childhood insecurities and jealousies. But his love for WWX drives him to continually stand by WWX and believe in him — even grudgingly, complainingly, and with growing resentment. Even up to the attack at the Nightless City, even after JZX’s death, he still seems to believe in WWX.

This last event, the attack at the Nightless City, seems to be the turning point where he stops believing in WWX, so I want to cover this particular event in more detail:

A “pledge conference” is being attended by QHN, GSL, LLJ, and YMJ. This conference is a ceremonial affair, centered around their pledge to eradicate WWX and the Wen remnants. It begins with them honoring the fallen with a toast, but while the other three sect leaders make the toasts, JC goes through the motions of the toast with visible unhappiness, and then conspicuously says nothing to honor the dead.

I feel this action needs to be understood in the context of the ceremony. They are standing in the Nightless City, where their comrades died in the final battle to take down QSW, a battle which WWX contributed to greatly. They are pouring the wine on the ground where the bodies lie to honor the fallen: “Here we honor our fallen. Rest in peace.” (Uncontroversial) “Now in the name of our fallen, we will eliminate the Wens who killed them — and the Yiling Patriarch!” (Controversial because WWX was brother in arms to these soldiers, and JGS is stirring shit because he wants the Yin Tiger Seal.)

JC knows the controversial bit is coming, so while the other sect leaders one by one say things like “rest in peace” and “may they live on” he dumps the wine on the ground and refuses to say anything. He is the only one, of the four with cups, who does not speak.

When WWX appears, the others all draw their weapons, but JC reaction is different: “JC’s pupils shrunk. Blue veins lined the back of his hand.” From this sentence alone, it may not seem clear what he’s feeling, but based on the rest of his actions in this scene, I would guess that he’s shocked and appalled that WWX would dare to appear before such a large and hostile mob, A MOB THAT IS CURRENTLY PLEDGING TO KILL HIM AND SCATTER HIS ASHES, thus recklessly and what seems like arrogantly endangering his own life.

After an increasingly hostile exchange between WWX and the mob, JGS calls for everyone to set up the battle arrays to seal WWX in, with the intention of killing him there. But when WWX calls up the corpses buried under them to defend himself, it’s stated that all the sects were in disarray, except for YMJ, which seems to indicate that WWX’s corpses were not attacking the YMJ delegation — and the YMJ cultivators were not fighting the corpses either.

This all seems to indicate that despite JZX’s death, despite the fact that JC has NO FUCKING CLUE what the hell happened at Qiongqi Path, despite the fact that he’s no doubt been fed lies and biased reports from the surviving Jin cultivators, and despite the fact that WWX is currently unleashing an undead army on all of them — he still believes that there’s another side of the story. He doesn’t even know WHAT that story is, but he believes in WWX— grudgingly, and with growing disbelief, confusion, and incredulity—  he still believes, BLINDLY, in WWX.

THE TURNING POINT

In the ensuing chaos, JYL is killed, and WWX finally snaps in his grief, unleashing a hellish and completely uncontrolled bloodbath upon the assembled cultivators. It is estimated that this killed three thousand people, severely decimating the cultivation world’s population.

The siege begins after this attack, and we know from the prologue that the siege was headed by JC, and that he was the one behind key tactical maneuvers (designed using his intimate knowledge of WWX’s weaknesses) that allowed them to eventually sack the Burial Mounds. In the aftermath, he was the main person credited by the cultivation world for the defeat of the Yiling Patriarch. When WWX meets JL at Dafan, he corroborates this by revealing, through the narration, that JGS was the second-biggest contributor to the siege — after JC, who was the biggest contributor.

I know that there are other popular interpretations of JC’s motivations here. I will name two:

He participated in the siege only due to political pressure — after what WWX did at the Nightless City, he couldn’t NOT condemn him or the cultivation world would have turned on YMJ too

He participated in the siege hoping to take WWX alive and bring him back home to discipline privately

But I don’t subscribe to either of these interpretations. I believe he FULLY intended to kill WWX. Firstly, if he was only participating in the siege due to political pressure, why contribute so vitally to the siege, why take a leading role and design tactical maneuvers to bring WWX down? He could have just done as he’d done previously, which was to participate perfunctorily in “opposition” against WWX, but contributing as little as possible, or nothing at all.

Secondly, some may argue that he was trying to capture WWX alive. But before this, he had always given the impression of being extremely cautious, to the point of inaction when maybe action would have been better. JC is VERY risk-averse. His characterization before the siege is that he’d rather do nothing than do something even potentially risky. The intention of everyone else was to kill WWX, NOT to capture him. As such, the risk that WWX would be killed in battle is extremely high. Even if by some miracle, he managed to capture WWX alive despite the best efforts of everyone else to murder him, it would be really difficult to stop the other sects from executing him, and getting permission to take him home and keep him under house arrest. It would be a safer bet to try to sabotage the siege from the inside, which is not what he did. In fact, he did the opposite. He was leading the siege viciously and with intent.

So I believe that he fully intended to kill WWX, which means the turning point was JYL’s death. Up to her death, JC still believed in WWX. After her death, however, the very last we see of him is him clutching JYL’s body, completely in shock, having not yet processed her death. I believe his last words to WWX should hint to us what caused the snap from blind faith to blind hatred. These words were: “Didn’t you say you could control it?! Didn’t you say it would be fine?!” To which WWX (who is having 99 fucking breakdowns all at once) finally admits that he was wrong, and that he can’t actually control it.

My belief is that this incident made JC realize that JYL’s death (and JZX’s as well) was largely caused by WWX’s loss of control over his demonic cultivation, and IMPORTANTLY, JC’s inaction re: WWX’s method of cultivation and his seeming descent into violent radicalism. Despite all the warning signs, the growing escalations, the increasingly violent confrontations with increasingly large death tolls— he continued to believe in WWX, even when he could no longer understand or predict WWX’s actions. Everyone told him “you need to reign him in” “he’s going off the rails” “he’s a danger to us all” and JC didn’t take them seriously because he BELIEVED IN and TRUSTED WWX.

And now his sister is dead, his month-old nephew is an orphan, and WWX has massacred three thousand people in a single night, likely including members of YMJ, in a total loss of control and conscience. I think that was the turning point, the crux of the betrayal.

I believed in you. I defended you. I stuck my neck out for you. But you scorned my help. You rejected and discarded me. You betrayed my trust.

You don’t give a shit about me.

You don’t give a shit about anyone else.

I BELIEVED in you, and YOU BETRAYED ME.

—

NOTE: Right now this meta is getting a little long, so I think this is a good place to maybe cut it in thirds? Part II should cover the siege, WWX’s death, and the 13 years in between, and Part III should cover JC’s actions and motivations after WWX’s resurrection. As the next parts have not been written, I can’t link it! But when Part II is done, I will edit the post to include a link below the cut:

[Part 2 is still in progress!]

[lazycranberrydoodles]

jin ling's slightly less homophobic arc (masterpost here!)

[gureshinlover]

I wonder what was Wwx's plan after the core transfer if he wasnt caught by Wen Chao. When he met up with JC was he gonna say "You got your core back, cool dude!! Haha because of some mysterious illness i lost my core at the same time you got yours :D I cant do cultivation anymore but you go on"

[blue-mood-blue]

I have been thinking about the blackening (as one does)…

…and it’s so interesting to me, the penalty Shen Qingqiu is faced with should he not decide to yeet his disciple into hell.

Account termination. Instant death. Sent directly home to his already-long-dead body, and that’s it for the villain of the piece who outright refuses his villainy. The protagonist needs a blackening for the story to continue, and Shen Qingqiu is going to provide it or get written out of the narrative. Either way, Luo Binghe is going to lose him. Either way, this is a turning point.

I wouldn’t claim that this is the intent of the penalty, but it fascinates me that the System has, potentially, backed the plotline into a corner - because Binghe still stands to be blackened even if Shen Qingqiu took the other choice.

Think about what that would look like, to him. He’s at the Immortal Alliance Conference, and everything is going wrong. He’s been outed as a demon, and not just a demon - the top tier of demon, as bad as it gets from the perspective of a righteous cultivator. His beloved teacher, the person who has been kindest to him and opened his home and heart to him, is standing there with his sword in hand, deciding what he’s going to do about what must look, to him, like a horrific betrayal. Binghe is apologizing. Binghe is begging for his life.

Shen Qingqiu hears him. Maybe it shows on his face, or in his voice, that he already knew; maybe there’s no hint at all, but Shen Qingqiu is suddenly talking quickly with an abrupt sense of urgency that Luo Binghe is having a hard time keeping up with. Telling him he’ll be wonderful - telling him he’s the best. Telling him the world will be his, with emotions cracking through that aloof mask that Binghe has never seen on Shizun’s face before, and it’s terrifying for reasons that Binghe cannot identify.

(He will, later. When he has time to think, he’ll realize it sounded like a goodbye.)

And then Shen Qingqiu is bleeding. And then Shen Qingqiu is on the ground. And then Shen Qingqiu is dead. There’s no countdown for Binghe - there’s no System, there’s no warning, there’s no answers.

Luo Binghe is a heavenly demon in the middle of a conference sabotaged by demons. Luo Binghe is alone. His fellow competing disciples are scattered, some dead or injured. The Peak Lord of Qing Jing Peak, the second in command of Cang Qiong Mountain Sect, maybe the only person he loved and who loved him back, is dead at his feet. No one will believe him if he says it isn’t his fault.

(He can’t believe it isn’t his fault.)

What choice does he have but to run? The last heavenly demon the cultivation world went up against has been sealed under a mountain for years, and one of the people responsible for that is probably looking for Shen Qingqiu already. They’ll be looking for him, too. There isn’t anywhere to hide; there isn’t any time to mourn.

There isn’t even enough time to ask why. Why again.

There is no closure waiting for him, because there is nothing to explain what happened. It just is.

It would be a different kind of blackening, certainly - less intense, probably, less of a warping, desperate thing. But how many times can one person have all the love and safety in their world torn out from under them before it starts to show? Before they just don’t allow things like love and safety to touch them, because that’s the better option?

Interesting to consider that, simply by offering the choices it did, the System rigged the story to guarantee that Luo Binghe would end up in hell (deliberate or not).

Interesting to consider that, even if Shen Qingqiu made what might have seemed like a kinder choice, there was every chance it wouldn’t have been.

[misschibidoodles2]

I'm re-reading grandmaster of demonic cultivation and I'm fucking dying at wwx being like alright I'll do something gay and lwj will throw me out, it doesn't work and he just escalates with something gayer.

[siflshonen]

Asexual Aromantic Senku Ishigami and his gay, common law married best friend and roommate Gen Asagiri who travels for his job

[koipalm]

For sy attendant au - what are SQQ attitude and feelings towards SY, if you don't mind me asking?

Because what I read so far hadn't painted him in good light. Like sure - he wants to survive and SY is an key asset in that, but the way he goes around it is... questionable.

so i answered this ask about it but i just realized that i dont think i tagged it with anything so. MY BAD thats my bad

the long and short of it is that sqq is definitely not a good person in this au lol. granted theres less of the overt child abuse because sy is able to stop some of that but sy still is very much a servant to him. one of the better things about this au is that sqq really just sees sy as a means to an end.. there is some attachment to him but sqq really does not really see sy as someone with his own agenda outside of like. living comfortably. its kind of good in a way that like sqq will grant sy a general amount of mobility around the sect because of sy's vague position and he doesnt reeaally care what shen yuan is doing if its not actively doing work for the peak or sqq.

sqq really sees sy as more of like. a political pawn? in a way. like he keeps sy close for appearances around the sect and he does in some way feel like hes doing charity work because by extension of working for him sy is granted a fair amount of power and status. but he doesnt care what shen yuan does in his free time or for fun. sqq is not the worst person of all in this au but he is definitely someone who isnt afraid of using others to help himself. that and like. its definitely a pat on the back for him of being able to say "well you were sent here to take my place and instead of killing you as was my right i HELPED you and i even gave you your own place on this peak and look at you now. youre mingling with some of the best and the brightest that the cultivation world has to offer" like nevermind that he isnt interested in helping sy with his own cultivation lawl

ok that wasnt short at all sorry but sqq is using sy but he also feels like hes helping him a bit. its a pretty unequal give and take so they definitely have an unhealthy relationship. that being said i think sy goes out of his way to misunderstand sqq a lot because he allows his hate of sqq to shape how he sees his actions.. so he doesnt put a lot of effort into actually examining how sqq differs from the book. also now that ive had a lot of time to think on this au i dont really think that sy's end goal in all of this would be to LEAVE as much as it would be he would want an actual firm position and leverage over sqq so he didnt feel so unstable. that and he does feel indebted to sqq. he could probably handle being around the guy if sqq didnt have so much say over his life

[tcfactory]

the obvious shenanigans that follow are well! if sj isnt going to socialise the poor beast then sy will! lqg staring like. "What is that." begging peak lord Liu's pardon, but this is a spiritual wolf that is meant to be under the care of peak lord shen. it requires socialising and i was informed you also possessed a spiritual wolf! the wolves, ofc, get on. sj wants to die when he finds out. he wont STOP them because that would make it worse but sToP WaGGinG YouR TaiL when liu-shidi comes over!!

Liu Qingge takes Shen Yuan at face value about the wolf - like, he knows Shen Qingqiu's daemon is a wolf, had seen its silhouette move in the shadows during night hunts, but this wolf is out in the open and is getting pets from Shen Yuan so he can't be Shen Qingqiu's Calamity (the wolf is actually called Harbor, like 'Safe harbor in a storm', but he would never admit to it so when people started making up names he just ran with the most menacing/powerful sounding one) - and during the next Peak Lord meeting he goes to confront Shen Qingqiu about neglecting a spirit beast in his care. How jealous does one have to be to hurt such a majestic wolf like that?! He can tell exactly what caused those scars and he will not stand for a fellow peak lord whipping innocent beasts!!

Shen Qingqiu can glare Yue Qingyuan into silence, but not quick enough to shut Shang Qinghua up before he can blurt out what's up. Liu Qingge demands that Shen Qingqiu prove himself by calling his daemon there. He's reluctant, but complies. Everyone is upset at the state of the wolf (did someone try to dock its tail to make it look a bit more like a dog?!?!!? yes, it was one of Qiu Jianluo's bright ideas to make them more obedient), most of them on Shen Qingqiu's behalf. Shen Qingqiu very much wants to strangle both Liu Qingge and Shang Qinghua, so Airplane reaches for the most convenient bombshell he has as distraction and blurts out what happened to Yue Qingyuan before he flees.

So now Shen Qingqiu has a regretful shidi (planning various nutritious and difficult to hunt monsters as apology gifts) a very regretful and kinda relieved shixiong (sporting one hell of a black eye) and a bunch of other mildly regretful and worried martial siblings and things are going to be fine. All thanks to one oblivious but very pretty hallmaster of his who he absolutely will not thank or fill in about what's up, no sir. (It's fine, it will take YQY and LQG maybe a day or two to get over their shock, realize what happened and start matchmaking, like the idiot sibling-types they are. Shen Qingqiu will have a supportive family whether he wants one or not, and we all know that he kinda really wants one actually.)

It's all going to be fine.

[nixster627]

Jiang Cheng: He is not the love of your life! He is just a guy!

Wei Wuxian: *nodding along*

Jiang Cheng: Hit him with your car.

Wei Wuxian: Wait, what?

[quirkle2]

JUST READ EVERYTHING THERE IS ABOUT THE ZOMBIE AU !!!!! LOVE THIS SO MUCH WAAAA

you mentioned that ritsu, by the end of the story, is broken and practically insane. once shigeo is cured and "back to normal," i'm guessing that ritsu doesn't exactly go back to "being normal" either :( he'd gone through too much to be the same after everything... do you think he ever goes back to old habits and treats mob like he's still a zombie, only to be shellshocked at the fact that it's all over?

also this au is very reminiscent of this post (grieving the undead) https://www.tumblr.com/applejuicewerewolf/735120232698593280/no-need-to-keep-this-in-the-tags-youre

WEEEE IMSO GLAD U LIKE IT it's the direct result of my brainworms

yes ritsu is definitely Not Normal by the end and he should be put into therapy immediately. poor kid's seen way too much at way too young of an age, and he's been put through unreal amounts of stress that is definitely not good for a growing brain. he most certainly does not go back to "normal" when mob is cured, and much like his brother, he's never quite the same as he was before

he Absolutely has trouble squashing old habits, yes. he tends to just Do Shit for mob that he's fully capable of doing now, no matter how simple, bc as a zombie mob couldn't rly do all that. he opens food packages for him automatically, he unlatches doors even though mob is perfectly capable of Figuring Out a Lock. sometimes when it's raining ritsu will even pull mob's hood over his head—he used to do that for him when he was a zombie, to keep the rain off him, even if zombie mob didn't rly give a damn if it was raining or not

if mob were anybody else, he'd prolly find it a bit insulting, but instead he finds it kind of amusing most of the time

sometimes he grabs mob's hand and leads him around and it's only when they're like halfway there that he realizes what he's doing. mob doesn't particularly mind, but when his goal is elsewhere and they're aiming for different places he has to go "ritsu ..." and it's this awkward blinking session like . oh .right. yes.ofc

i think mob would ? maybe get a little annoyed at the hovering that ritsu totally unintentionally does. he hovers so closely bc zombie mob never rly minded, or ,, noticed. so now that he's back to "human" levels of awareness it is . extremely obvious. and it's not even that ritsu is Worried, it's just like he's spent so long Hovering and Fretting that it's just kinda second nature to him now

it's a strange role-reversal—it's very weird for mob to wake up and have scattered memories of the last two years, and suddenly feel like he's the younger brother instead. ritsu is now the caretaker, and it's... strange. and honestly, the first real goal mob has in mind after waking up and recovering for a while is settling back into the role of older brother. it's important to him

but much like how reigen now has trouble corralling that kid, mob has some difficulty getting ritsu to settle back into it too. he's too high-strung and stressed and permanently scarred to rest and let people take care of him, too used to being the caretaker himself. for the longest time he was forced into the mindset of, "you stop, you die," so ritsu keeps going bc his instincts r shot and he feels like he's in danger all the time

after a while of gentle nudging, mob gets the hang of convincing ritsu to lean on people, to lean on him, but mob is quietly distraught at the overall state of ritsu's mental well-being. it takes him a while to rly get a grasp of how bad it truly is, but once he realizes the damage, he's .. so fuckin upset w himself for letting this happen to his brother

as if it's rly his fault at all, but he regrets being slow and getting overrun by that zombie horde to begin with. maybe if he hadn't turned, ritsu would be a lot better off now—they woulda been able to join a settlement, and live in a place where there is supplies and food and clothing and other people to talk to other than your mumbling brother who no longer fully understands you. it likely would've spared him a lot of trauma

and alsoYES that post is EXACTLY it the concept of mourning a person u still see every day is ougougouhoguhg ,., .,witsu ..................

[travalerray]

I am going to slap you myself

[lazycranberrydoodles]

soggy failgirl sect leader

while i was looking for the reference pic i found out someone already did this for shang qinghua lmao

[annagrzinskys]

oh i just had a thought that HURTS. so people have made posts about jiang cheng doing the self sacrifice ritual and wwx coming back in jc's body to get revenge for jin ling dying right. and yeah. that's some knives to the heart.

what if wwx came back as someone else and the curse wound would only go away if he killed jiang cheng. idk like a sibling of a demonic cultivator that jc killed or something

[lilnasxvevo]

The crazy thing about MDZS is that it’s 82 tragedies in a trench coat AND all those tragedies are so interconnected that you can’t dream up a fix-it that saves even 1 person without realizing that your fix dooms someone else who wasn’t originally doomed or dooms an already doomed person even harder

[gentil-minou]

Xiantober Day 8 - Head Disciple!Xian

Yunmeng Jiang celebrates the promotion of their newest head disciple with festivities and merriment that last well into the night. It's a right of passage a chance for the new head disciple to shine.

Madame Yu canceled Wei Wuxian's ceremony.

She made a fair point, Wei Wuxian thinks. It was a difficult growing season and the harvest wasn't as good as last year's so it wouldn't do for them to celebrate while the villagers were suffering.

And yeah, the request for aid was also really important. It's just a shame that Uncle Jiang and Jiang Cheng both had to go for it, today of all days. Wei Wuxian had asked if he could have gone too, Jiang Cheng behind him nodding furiously as well. It would have been a great way to start his new role.

But Madam Yu said no.

Then, she took shijie off with her to visit their family. It wouldn't make sense for Wei Wuxian to go with them, he's not really their family. Shijie made him soup before she left, which will be perfect!

Wei Wuxian is okay with not having a ceremony. He sits on his favorite dock overlooking the lake, where the lotus blooms are especially big and he can see out behind the sea for miles, over to the vast landscape that awaits on the other side.

Years ago, when he first came to Yunmeng with Uncle Jiang, he couldn't even swim in the water for very long. It was the former head disciple who helped him then, teaching him to breathe between strokes so he's not holding his breath forever. They were also really kind, and never said anything about him being behind all the other kids. They gave him some extra practice after everyone left, and then some when Wei Wuxian had started to surpass the others.

He's gonna miss them now that they've moved off to marry into a new clan, but Wei Wuxian thinks he can keep their memory alive.

He didnt actually care much for the head disciple role. It was just a role and well as long as he gets to go on night hunts and save good people what does it matter what title he wears?

Still, when Uncle Jiang sat him down and told him he'd got the role, Wei Wuxian accepted it with gravity for what it would mean.

He liked helping with the younger trainees. At Yunmeng, everyone trains together, from the moment you can hold a sword properly you can join the older disciples.

Wei Wuxian had loads of experience helping the younger kids out, and it's a lot of fun!

They're a sneaky bunch and gangly and 3-shimei really needs to stop waving her sword around like it's still made of wood for crying out loud.

But they're also earnest and hardworking and adorable, and they look at Wei Wuxian like he could never do wrong, and well, he wants to prove them right.

So it doesn't matter if he doesn't get a fancy ceremony. He doesn't need it. All he needs is to help the other disciples and make Jiang Sect the best there is and ever was. Attempt the impossible, and succeed.

"Da-shixiong?"

A timid voice calls out from behind Wei Wuxian and he peers around to see a group of disciples, some around his age and some a little younger, loitering near the pavillion.

"Aiya, what are you guys doing here? Didn't Jiang-shuhu give you drills to run through?"

Technically, Wei Wuxian was supposed to help them with these drills, but okay maybe he needs a break sometimes and maaaaaybe he wanted to wallow just a little bit.

This disciples shuffle together, nudging at each other to say something. They're so funny Wei Wuxian has to bite his lips to keep from laughing at them.

Finally 6-shidi, the youngest and probably Wei Wuxian's favorite, comes over to Wei Wuxian's side. "Da-shixiong! We wanted to show you something!" he yells directly into his face, spittle flying everywhere. It's a good thing he's so cute.

Wei Wuxian raises a brow. "Okay…"

He follows the nervous group back from where they came, really hoping they haven't broken something. First day on the job and already there's something for Madame Yu to yell at him about.

Ah well, better him than the kids.

Before they turn the corner into the main training grounds, 6-shidi does an abrupt about face and stares determinedly up at Wei Wuxian, since he's still a good couple heads shorter than him.

"Da-shixiong, close your eyes!"

Wei Wuxian does so, and the little hands pull him forward. Someone covers his eyes so he can't perk but he can hear them moving around and whispering. At some point there's the sound of something dropping, a plate? Then the sound of furious whispering and Wei Wuxian has to laugh now.

Finally, the hand moves away from his eyes and he opens them, blinking as he adjusts to the bright afternoon sunlight illuminating the courtyard. When he can see, he looks around at the tables on the floor piled high with sweets from the market and freshly cooked dishes, even an extra large tureen of shijie's soup.

There's a space set up for games on the other side of the yard, simple ones like kite shooting and an archery set up with funny faces drawn on the target. A table near the center that must be the place of honor is covered with jars of liquor, and beside the table is… Jiang Cheng?

Wei Wuxian gapes at him. Jiang Cheng scowls at something unseen in a corner, arms crossed protectively over his chest. "I snuck away. Dad knows. Don't make a big deal out of it."

How can he not??? Wei Wuxian practically leaps across the courtyard to smother Jiang Cheng in a hug.

And even though Jiang Cheng complains, Wei Wuxian notices he doesn't try to shove him off.

6-shidi tugs on his sleeve to get his attention and says, "What do you think, Da-shixiong? We put this all together for you! I helped draw the faces!"

A chorus of voices sounds out around him as all his little shidi and shimei clamber over to tell him how they contributed. Wei Wuxian beams at them all, laughing and laughing and not sure if he's ever going to stop. He sniffles a little bit.

Like he said, he doesn't need ceremony when he has a sect like this one.

[lgbtlunaverse]

Could someone tell me where the interpretation that, in book canon, the promotion Nie Mingjue gives Meng Yao made Meng Yao's life worse than it was before, came from?

I have seen that claim made multiple times now and I've looked at the text over and over trying to see where the basis for it is and I. Can't find it? Don't get me wrong, it absolutely spells out that it does not and cannot fix everything for Meng Yao, but the idea that it was actively bad for him?

Lacking other evidence, I kind of have to assume that it comes from cql canon being sort of projected backwards onto book canon. In cql canon, meng yao is suffering active and explicit bullying and abuse from the captain while under the nie, and does so because the capain believes he has risen above his station via nmj's promotion of him. (In book canon this... isn't happening. It happens with the captain in Langya instead) However, in cql canon he has also been with the nie for years and is openly close to both Nie Mingjue and Nie Huasiang, whereas in book canon he has only been working with nie mingjue for a few months (though has, in that time, apparently become close enough to him for Lan Xichen to explicitly state Meng Yao is able to calm nmj down in ways no one else can? Ofc he does this... Right after that stops being true. But. Food for thought. Not what this post is about tho.) So, if you project the much more explicit abuse from the nie sect captain in cql back on novel jgy who has a presumably much less stable position in the sect overall you get... a meng yao for whom the promotion only means a bigger target on his back and virtually no protection from nmj, who we must assume he can't trust to talk to his about because he never mentions it. (This also explicitly violates book canon when it comes to meng yao's general behaviour, we'll talk about that in a sec)

And look. We all do frankencanon in this house. I get it. And for fanfiction that is very fun. But for a serious reading of the character, his situation, and the actions that lead from that this... doesn't make much sense, in my opinion.

So. Why is that? Why did I say this was out of character for the novel? Because Meng yao spoke up about the jin captain mistreating him. Multiple times! It's just that none of it mattered because no one cared to listen to him. This is a pretty important line for his character because it flatly shows that meng yao is not and has never seen murder as something trivial. He's not trigger happy. He will only do it if he sees no other way out that doesn't end in himself being seriously harmed. (Whether he's right or justified in these cases is not the point of this post.)

If anything remotely similar was happening in the Nie sect, he would have said so. Cql Meng Yao doesn't do this because cql Meng Yao is a different character, and also the plot wouldn't work if he did. Cql Nie Mingjue, by extension, comes off as a fundamentally less trustworthy figure in cql Meng Yao's life because apparently for whatever reason, he cannot be trusted with the information that the deputy he has already publicly defended is still being harassed, and doesn't notice even when it is really blatant. The assumtpion the audience is given is that, like a middle schooler getting the principal involved when being bullied, it would only make the harassment more viscious.

This... actually has a somewhat solid basis in the book. Because after nmj yells at the bullies in question Wei Wuxian says this.

And it is important to keep in mind that this is Wei Wuxian saying this. Not Meng Yao, not an omniscient narrator. Wei wuxian is drawing on his own experiences, likely from the Jiang family, to conclude that if someone is angry at you and thwarted by someone defending you, this generally does not make them less angry at you.

This is leaving out two crucial things, though.

Firstly, this worry isn't about the promotion at all.

The promotion hasn't even been brought up. In the novel it doesn't ctually happen immediately, it takes another few battles where meng yao continues to do his job well and nie mingjue continues praising him for him to eventually go "yeah, you deserve a raise."

This is another aspect that is being projected from cql canon onto book canon I presume, because it does happen quite quickly there, and it's a throwaway line in the books so it's easy to miss. I can't be mad about anyone forgetting the difference, but it is important to mention for this particular analysis.

Which is the second point: change in status

Wei Wuxian couldn't exactly change status within the Jiang family. (And if he could, that would just fuel rumours that he was jfm's bastard even more and make madam yu even angrier at him, etc etc.)

This isn't comparable to Meng Yao. The worry Wei Wuxian is talking about is explitly about Nie Mingjue's initial very loud defense of him. Before he has any idea Nie Mingjue is going to promote him.

Promoting him would likely decrease his chances of cultivators coming after him because now he was in a higher standing in the sect than they were. If applied to that earlier metaphor of middle school bullying it's like if the bullied kid suddenly got hired as a teacher. Which. Doesn't work with the metaphor at all. Touché. But what I am trying to say is that any payback they would have planned for him relied on the fact that they could make sure that Nie Mingjue wasn't going to be within very convenient earshot a second time, and as a random disciple Meng Yao couldn't just go complain to him every time.

But as his right hand man? Who spends most of his time working directly alongside him? Lmao. Good luck. Oh, sure, it is very likely that they feel offended a son of a whore has been raised in status above them, and many will continue to do so as jgy rises through cultivation society (in fact, Wei Wuxian's observations are absolutely on point for how Madam Jin will be treating jgy later on). But as we can also see from the way jgy is treated and how he treats others throughout the story: you can be upset all you want, but if that person is higher than you in status there's jack shit you can do about it.

If I am correct and Wei Wuxian is basing this on his experiences with the Jiang family, it makes sense why he'd miss this. Madam Yu gets to be way angrier at Jiang Fengmian as his wife than some random disciples can be at Nie Mingjue. Insulting Meng Yao, suggesting that he didn't deserve his promotion or that he earned it through less than proper means (you know who is mother is) is also an insult to Nie Mingjue and the way he chooses to run his sect. They can't do that.

Another thing I see brought up in this regard would be the tea scene. There may be no explicit harassment like in the show, but cultivators still don't respect him! The disrespect is just quieter and more subtle.

Tiny detail: these are actually not Nie cultivators

They're cultivators Lan Xichen is escorting with him, making a pitstop in heijan.

The book confirms this by basically outright stating that this is the first time they see his face, and recognize him as Jin Guangshan's bastard son.

Now, just because there is no proof that it happened doesn't mean it definitely never happened. Mdzs is a novel that often leaves stuff out or up to interpretation. Similar stuff to the tea situtation could very well be happening in the background. But I do think it is pretty significant that there is no mention whatsoever of Meng Yao having any negative treatment from Nie cultivators betwen him and Nie Mingjue meeting and him executing them while spying for Wen Ruohan, and the most we get is Wei Wuxian's personal speculation, after which he immediately goes to wax poetic about how surprised he is that Meng Yao and Nie Mingjue are getting along super well.

And, again, novel Meng Yao would have said something. He doesn't say anything about the tea scene. - Or? Does he? Notably 3zun have some very long in depth conversations that Wei Wuxian zones out from because he's busy thinking about Lan Zhan again. But let's not rely on what-ifs. Let's say that neither he nor Lan Xichen find it worth bringing up. Major reasons for that would be that a) these are not nie cultivators, nie mingjue wouldn't really have the authority to scold them. Especially because b) it's such a subtle offense it could easily be handwaved as coincidence. "They just always brush their cups clean like that!! It's wartime you know, and they were traveling! They're used to drinking from vessels that aren't thoroughly washed everytime! It's just a habit!" And would therefore not be worth reporting.

But anything worse than that? A "price tens or hundreds of times greater" like wwx mentions? He'd report it! I do understand that "well if it was happening why didn't he say something?" would, in real life, be victim blaming. This is not real life, and I am not talking about this in a matter of blame. If Meng Yao was being mistreated in the Nie and stayed silent about it, it would still not be his fault. I am talking about this in a manner of character consistency.

His admission of seeking help in the Jin sect shows that at that time and prior to it (a very good argument can be made that he loses faith in this idea) he believes that if he is being mistreated and someone with the authority to say something about it takes his side, things can improve. If Nie Mingjue standing up for him in Qinghe only made things worse, he would not have tried to ask for help in an even more hostile environment. You can call Meng Yao many things, but naïve isn't one of them.

Meng yao's later habit of completely isolating himself and lying to everyone around him comes from the fact that revealing his suffering would mean explaining several horrible things he's become complicit in and he does not feel safe admitting to that. But he's done nothing wrong here!

The reading where he says nothing would imply an either correct or incorrect belief in Meng Yao's eyes that Nie Mingjue did not much care for his wellbeing or safety. Oh sure he defended him once but doing so again multiple times would be such a bother. This also contradicts his later behaviour, where he banks solely on Nie Mingjue's protective instincts to seal his qi and escape during the confrontation in Langya. After having been caught murdering a man, he is still convinced Nie Mingjue will immediately try to help him when he is in serious danger.

And even if you very badly want to characterize Nie Mingjue as a blundering idiot who is apparently less trustworthy in Meng Yao's eyes than the jin cultivators who had already resoundly rejected him by the time he tries to ask for help with the langya captain. He doesn't say anything to Xichen either! Lan Xichen, who has explicitly and exhaustively been portrayed as kind and understanding to Meng Yao's circumstances and very willing to talk to Mingjue if Meng Yao wants something from him he doesn't otherwise think he'd get. The conversation Mingjue overhears where Meng Yao's new position in the Nie is explictly brought up would be kind of the perfect time to go "yeah I've been promoted but I'm not treated well by other soldiers" aaaand. Nothing. So unless you come to the conclusion that Meng Yao trusted the Jin he told about the captain's abuse more than Lan Xichen you kind of have to conclude that Meng Yao's treatment after his promotion improved significantly. And that even if people still disliked him they could not openly do anything about it because he was high enough in status for that to be socially inappropiate. Which is, explicitly, one of his main motivators over the entire course of the story: Avoiding mistreatment by getting high enough on the social ladder it doesn't matter what people think of him, they can't hurt him.

And I'm not sure how to reconcile that character journey with the idea that he would, at any point, have preferred to keep his head down and stay where he was. When he was so desperate to crawl his way out.