#when the fanbase was less horrible about it

[acesammy]

daily mantra: you can do nothing about peoples rancid takes you can do nothing about peoples rancid takes you can do nothing about peoples rancid takes

[reel-fear]

Bendy And The Power Of Representation

So those graphic novel pages huh? Seems I posted my cover post at just the right time because literally minutes after I was informed the preview pages came out and uh. This is Buddy and Norman!

Oh dear... I'll put the full graphic novel pages down below but I have so much to say on how awful this is it'll need several posts. However, right now I want to mostly talk about representation and briefly touch on why it's so damn important + inform others about the current shit Mike and Meatly are saying about the books n such.

Now note: All the things I'm saying below are based on my personal experience, maybe some people don't care about seeing the representation of their identities in the media they consume. Maybe some will think I'm merely being dramatic and I might be but I'm not lying when I say I personally believe being represented and seen in the media you consume can be one of the most wonderful feelings in the world.

Look I'm not here to argue with people who think that Norman in particular was never meant to be a person of color, I would argue he is very coded but the points I'm making here are not about how Norman particularly had to be black. The point I want to make is the lack of diversity in our cast in general and how Norman's design has heavily dwindled it considering most people [including myself] rightfully assumed he was at least one of three black characters in our cast. Not according to this though and looking at the the rest of the pages our chances of seeing any kind of decent diverse character designs dwindle more.

So firstly... Buddy a character who has been said to experience discrimination for being Jewish, lacks any kind of ethnic features at all. That's... Cool but yeah I think this shows a rather grim future for the character designs as a whole.

Also, Norman... As I mentioned he was largely assumed to be black due to his southern dialect, his voice, and other factors. But nope, he's a generic white guy. With... Gross looking hair tbh...

Sadly this is not the first time the topic of poor representation has come up concerning Bendy either.

[note how he disregarded the other mentioned minorities and specifically cites LGBTQ+ characters]

This sucks as a response but sadly considering Mike's recent behavior it seems to fall in line with the Bendy team's general lack of care towards representing anyone who isn't straight and white.

So how did Mike respond to all of this? Well...

TDLR - "Who cares if the Graphic Novel we're selling to our fans for full price sucks, we now no longer consider the books canon."

This is horrible, I know Mike and Meatly are only really in this for the money, the fact BATIM is in the state that it is proved that, but they really couldn't have been less obvious about it?

So basically when it benefited them, AKA when it meant people would have to buy the books to understand important lore like Boris' identity... [the character you spend all of chapter 4 trying to rescue] They were considered canon... At least the author sure thought so.

Hell even in the tweet Meatly made here he doesn't say the books aren't canon, he just says they're not needed to understand Bendy's world. Now Mike is using that as a shield instead of doing the right thing and saying "You're right, the poc in our fanbase deserve better we'll have it fixed right away!" Like most reasonable people would considering how his studio has literally been accused of bigotry, poor rep, and general lack of diversity before. Why risk making more people avoid this franchise?

Also just... Imagine how insulting it would be to be an author who helps flesh out so much of this world and gives its characters depth like NONE of the games have managed to do, filling in plot holes, creating a timeline for events, etc... Then because they couldn't bother to change the graphic novel for ur story to be better they instead throw out all ur writing and declare it non-canon.

If I were her to put it bluntly I'd feel insulted and horrible. Why make her do all the work of making sure her works align with the timeline and game's canon if they're not part of it?

I can't speak for her obviously but Meatly and Mike know of her account, so speaking out against this could very much risk her being fired or at least not allowed to work on Bendy anymore... So I would take all her tweets on this situation with a grain of salt. She very much is not in a position where she could be honest if she was against this.

So with all that history now, the question I'm sure many are wondering is... Why does this even matter? Who cares how diverse the characters are when it doesn't affect the story?

Well for one thing, if you think like that consider having more empathy for your fellow human beings but also it does affect the story. One of DCTL's themes is about the bigotry of the period it is set in.

Now the Bendy team has managed to make the discussion of this book centering around their bigotry which is ironic in a way I almost find funny... Though this entire thing is just a bit too hurtful and upsetting to find any humor in, at least for me...

But another thing is representation can bring people such joy when it's done with care. It really shouldn't be understated how far it can go to make people feel more comfortable in their own sense of self to have a franchise choose to represent them and their experiences. I know this from personal experience.

Now if you've been following me for a while, you know I'm a big fan of Transformers. I no longer engage with it much due to baggage from the fandom's awful treatment of me, but before I left I remember being able to witness the release of Transformers: Earthspark first few episodes.

These introduced the Maltos the family who meets the Transformers and serve as our protagonists and guess what?

It's a family of Filipinos!

Now look I'm not Filipino, but I am half Mexican and I have a lot of love for that part of me. So seeing the representation of any Spanish culture in this franchise I loved made me so happy! I remember just watching the first episode I was happily telling my partner how fun it was to see people like me and my family in a world I love!!

But it didn't end with the Maltos in fact... There was another character who spoke to me, their name was Nightshade. Their pronouns are They/Them and they spoke about it on the show! Not just mentioning it and moving on but actually sitting down to speak about their experiences...

This clip in particular really turned them into an absolute favorite among fans and well... I'll let you see it for yourself.

This scene... Fills me with a joy I cannot describe. It is the creators of a franchise I love telling me they see people like me and find the stories of people like me important enough to include in this series. There really is nothing like being able to say there are Non-Binary characters in a franchise I have so much love for. I was far from the only one too.

This is amazing, this is wonderful, this clip and character were moving to so so many people and...

This is a joy the Bendy creators have no interest in giving their audience. They don't care how you feel as a queer and/or black person, which... Hurts...

I... Discovered I was trans while in the Bendy community... It was where I learned the word Non-Binary and started using it for myself. To me Bendy will always have that connection... But the devs themselves seem to hate the idea of being forced to actually represent that in their games... And I still haven't really gotten over that pain or betrayal if I'm being honest.

So...

With Norman now being portrayed as white here, we are down to two black characters. Thomas [who Meatly has claimed is white in the past] based on a vague conversation with Sammy in DCTL they could easily ignore... And Jacob.... A book exclusive character which according to Mike means he is non-canon.

If we don't count Thomas' vague talk with Sammy about disrespect as confirmation he's black [which the devs don't seem to think so] then we have one black character in all of Bendy... And he recently got retconned into non-existence. Great.

Look... The Bendy fanbase has always been full of wonderfully diverse designs for the staff and even more diverse people creating them. Bendy's fandom was built with the work of queer people from all kinds of places.

If the Bendy team continues to show how little they care for anyone who isn't straight or white... I wonder who they are counting on to buy this book or in general financially support their franchise?

I know right now, I am furious, I am hurt and I most certainly don't feel like buying a book that's currently just a massive fuck you to the fans and I hope I've expressed why I feel this way in an easy-to-understand way here...

Either way, I will not be forgetting this anytime soon and I hope the fanbase does the same. Maybe just maybe, if there's enough backlash to this series of horrible decisions they'll learn better.

Right now, it's kinda of our only hope for a better future, and if you know any poc who are into Bendy right now... Maybe consider making sure they're feeling okay.

I know from experience how much this sort of thing hurts, to have the creators of a world you love straight up tell you they don't intend to fix the fact no one in their stories represents your identity or life...

What I'm trying to say is...

This is a really low point for Bendy and its fans... Even more for the poc who have to witness such ignorant and careless attitudes from Mike and Meatly towards their feelings.

Please don't forget them when you discuss these tweets or this situation. That's exactly what Mike and Meatly want right now.

For them to be unrepresented and therefore... Unheard.

[anxiousdreamcore]

I saw that recent post you made writing out how you view all the Avatar characters, and in it, you mentioned that your opinion of the characters has changed a lot in the past year and a half (I can't believe it's been that long since ATWOW!)

So how did your opinion of the characters change and why? Who changed the most radically? I'd love to hear your thought process!

Warning: yapping ahead

My opinion changed as I began consuming content from different people in the fanbase, as I sadly started out my journey relegated to mostly the recom side of the fandom.

A very specific vision I’ve formed was one of him and Neytiri. Two individuals forced to be close by circumstance, and not necessarily liking each other but they’re known each other for so long that they know each other, you know? The way I see it, they can’t pretend to be strangers, and their argument in the high ground comics, which is the only time any of the children oppose Neytiri makes me think that this is the dynamic going on between them.

Being a Spider fan outside of the recom space was a horrible experience for many of my mutuals, and I heard from more than one person that just liking the character earned them death threats, so I kept to the only space where he was actually liked, which uh…may or may not have been a bit of an echo chamber.

First months after ATWOW came out the opinions were extremely polarising and there was little depth to go around. I realised later on though, I didn’t have to pick a side and didn’t have to force myself to forgive Quaritch, because I never wanted to. I didn’t have to see him as either a 🥺baby gworl🥺 or an emotionless monstrosity.

As I said before, the essays made by Quaritch fans sold me at first. They seemed to provide a lot of proof and I was on board with the identity crisis theory, but as time went on I believed it less and less. Looking at the movie with fresh eyes months later, I formed and opinion of my own and that is — That recom Quaritch is an amalgamation of his past self and the Na’vi instincts/perspective of his new body. He’s a fucked up soup that is, in a way, different than his human predecessor but not different enough to be considered a wholly separate creature. If human Quaritch was a dying garden then recom Quaritch is that same garden decayed to the core, with one single flower emerging amongst the rot, not yet consumed by it. (That flower being his fatherhood obv)

I went from seeing him as a man perhaps capable of redemption and seeing value in Pandora, to a man who, while not enjoying it per ce, obviously doesn’t give much of a damn about the moon or its habitat or its many cultures. All that matters to Quaritch is that these things matter to his son, so he’ll entertain them and go easy on the destruction, just for him. He doesn’t yet accept Pandora, not fully, but he accepts that Spider does so.

The way I began to see it, Socorro is somewhat his only functioning organ. A breathing lung in an otherwise dead body. Miles hasn’t felt anything but manic happiness and rage for as long as we knew him on screen, and that only changed when he stood in the boy’s presence, constantly challenged by him, and brought out of his comfort zone over and over again. He needs him to be remotely alive and likeable to the audience. He needs him to be something more than a chained army dog.

That brings me to my next point; my other big change in perspective was one of his dynamic with Spider. The more I analysed the franchise the more I came to conclusion that Miles is just an unbearable softie for him, and it was really the deleted scenes and the fact that Spider has a new bow in the ikran taming scene that sold me. He not just likes Spider, he loves him, to death. His sacrifices might not seem sufficient, but for his character, they‘re very much drastic, as Miles is traditionally not a loving person.

Quaritch is canonically a traitor to the RDA because he jeopardised his mission three times in a row, all for a single child. His inner father and colonel are constantly fighting each other, as he knows what he should be focusing on, but can’t resist being a father; having priorities of his own. He was an old fool who thought he could have his cake and eat it too; make Spider safe and happy and be a colonel at the same time, but in the end he made up his mind on what matters more, and it’s Spider. The way I see it now is; Quaritch is only truly loyal to Spider. He can hate it, but he can’t run from it.

[genericpuff]

don't you love how LO and its fanbase have a double standard when it comes to how minthe and persephone are portrayed in their relationship with hades

because i fucking don't, it's frustrating and goes to show how ironically far up persephone's ass everyone is

A lot of the things Minthe gets criticized for, Persephone is outright celebrated for.

Minthe is into glitzy fashion and expensive dinners and relies on Hades for all her financial help? She's materialistic and vapid and a gold digger taking advantage of Hades. When Persephone does those things? She's a confident go-getter who knows what she deserves and won't accept any less.

Minthe acts shitty and cold to the people around her? She's a cunt who doesn't deserve friends or any sort of empathy whatsoever. Persephone does it? She's a #bossbabe and the person she's snipping at "probably deserved it anyways."

Minthe displays blatant PDA with Hades? She's nasty and gross and disrespectful to the people around her. Persephone does it? The whole realm talks about it and cheers for it, with many of the side characters going so far as to try and hook them up every opportunity they can get.

Minthe acts petty to try and 'get back' at Persephone, she's seen as a petty bitch and even called out on her behavior BY THE CHARACTERS THEMSELVES. Persephone does the EXACT SAME SHIT, and people flat out encourage her.

Minthe sneaks around Hades back to hook up with Thanatos? She's a cheater and doesn't deserve him. Persephone literally flirts with and comes onto Hades when she knows Minthe is with Hades? It's fine, Minthe deserves what's coming to her and Persephone and Hades are 'meant to be'. Never mind the fact that as SOON as Minthe and Hades decided to be in an actual committed relationship, beyond just the terms of their original agreement (which was transactional) Minthe broke it off with Thanatos. What does Persephone do though when she admits to flirting with Hades knowing he's in a relationship? She acknowledges it's not fair to Minthe, but just asks to "slow down". She seems to be more concerned with breaking the terms of her TGOEM agreement than hurting Minthe or participating in an emotional affair.

Point is, Persephone is constantly being given a pass by the narrative, Rachel, and her own fanbase that she's allowed and justified to do whatever she wants, while everyone else "deserves" whatever shitty end of the stick they get so long as they're not "in the way" of Hades and Persephone's relationship. If RS ever swapped out these Persephone moments with Minthe, the narrative would spin it as a horrible, tasteless thing and the fanbase would throw eggs at her. It's wild how the narrative will try to convince us Minthe is the root of all Hades' suffering when, if anything, Minthe is a victim and Hades' relationship with Persephone has many of the same foundations as his relationship with Minthe.

Anyways, this turned into a way longer essay than I planned it to, but seriously, Minthe deserved better, and just because Rachel will bend over backwards to try and paint Minthe as the root of all evil doesn't mean she deserved to be cheated on or turned into a plant; on the flipside, just because Persephone is the main protagonist doesn't mean her actions are any more justifiable than Minthe's. You can't call Minthe a bitch for doing what she did when Persephone is given a free pass to do the same shit all the time. Context doesn't even matter in many of these cases, there is no context that makes it okay to have such double standards and almost blatantly obvious class/racial imbalances in your own narrative that claims to be 'feminist' and is being written for teenage girls.

Stop lecturing Minthe and start holding Persephone accountable.

[rainbow-neko-artblog]

I'm gonna guess it's because it's unclear how much of the child actually remains once their parts are used in a toy. A lot of the toys talk like adults, and also Catnap has committed horrific torture and murder, so there's some basis for the thought.

Personally I think it could go either way but regardless what canon makes clear later (or not) people are gonna ignore what parts of canon they wanna ignore. I do it because the idea of a child doing all that murder and torture makes me intensely uncomfortable.

Also Look no further than the outpouring of love for Dogday and aus rescuing him as evidence of people deciding sometimes canon just isn't totally for them andjsjfkg

TW: Child abuse and Violent Content ahead

I think you're missing the point that people shouldn't be sexualizing kids just because their trauma makes them act less like kids, Which is what people are doing right now and why I am speaking up about it.

These kids- Catnap specifically even, were subject to traumatizing abuse as a child and in toy form. This isn't even mentioning that they were teaching kids advanced subjects in science- possibly to imply that kids that weren't turned into toys became workers for playtime co. Of course he doesn't act like a kid, and of course he does all these horrible things. They were never treated like a kid. They were never taught anything else.

It's horrible and awful for that to happen to a child- but like most (Fictional, this obviously isnt always the case in real life) horror games- when a kid is subject to that kind of learning they repeat what they see. (Ie: Fnaf is also guilty of letting it's fanbase make sexualized art of the animatronics when they ALSO had dead kids in them. Kids who killed security guards in the worst way they could because it was all they knew and they were vengeful)

What specifically irked me and made me remind people that 'hey these characters are kids, don't be gross' is that theres already a massive amount of p*rn of them, and im sorry but i just DONT think its appropriate to be making that stuff, au or not, of a child character. Maybe if the context was REALLY FUCKING DIFFERENT, but a lot of what i'm seeing ISNT DIFFERENT FROM SOURCE. Which is really gross.

I am not sorry when i say that i will be blocking people who are doing it- because I just don't condone it. It's gross icky nasty. They're kids.

[canyoufucksoniccharacters]

I am DEEPLY sorry about making you dive down this rat’s nest of a lore hole, but I’m back with another question that should be cleared up: Can You Fuck Shadow the Hedgehog?

I have a feeling this is gonna get complicated real fast…

I've had this one in mind for a while, so this shouldn't be all that hard to write.

CAN YOU FUCK: SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG?

...

YOU FELL FOR IT! YOU ALL FELL FOR IT!

To any reasonable person, Shadow should have been included in the Sonic post, alongside Surge, Mighty, etc. But you want to know why I didn't? Because if I did, it wouldn't give me the proper opportunity to rant about something.

SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG IS NOT 50 YEARS OLD. HE NEVER WAS, HE NEVER HAS BEEN, AND HE WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE.

This is a misconception that has permeated through the fanbase for Chaos knows how long, being repeated over and over and over again, ad nauseam.

Why do people even say this? Well, Project Shadow started 50 years before the event of Sonic Adventure 2. Which means Shadow's creation happened 50 years ago.

So, people take this as "Oh, Shadow was created 50 years ago, this must mean he's 50 years old!"

DO YOU PEOPLE NOT KNOW WHAT THE WORD "STASIS" MEANS.

During Sonic Adventure 2, Eggman breaks into a military base to unleash a "top secret military weapon" for his plans. This weapon, is, of course, shadow. The screenshot above is from the scene where Shadow is released.

What does this look like those particles are? What do they look like to you? Usually, thick white air particles like these are a result of the use of cold to pause biological processes. On top of that, the shot right before it displays the object atop the machinery pretty well, although with some distance.

This is a pod. Like, this is very obviously a pod. Shadow is even standing on top of it once he's revealed.

And what does he say when he's revealed?

Note how he says "Awakening". This is taken from a re-translation of the Japanese script, since the official translation makes him refer to being released as opposed to being awakened. Remember, translations for these games in this era were... Less than stellar.

(seriously, don't go there yet? to the guy telling you he shouldn't have ever been born? like maybe you're right maybe you shouldn't have been born but we don't know enough to say that for sure. ok, buddy)

So, yeah, Shadow isn't 50. I've been saving this for a standalone post, because it is baffling to me how people still keep spouting that "Fact" over and over, even though it makes no sense. He was frozen. He didn't develop mentally or physically. I'm not a Marvel fan by any means, but this is like if you added 66 years to Captain America's age because that's how long he was frozen. For these characters, if you just knocked them unconscious and then sent them to the future, it literally would not make even a bit of a difference.

He's not 50. Moving on.

Oh yeah, uh. That whole immortality thing.

(Source: Japanese dub, translated.)

Here and there, official material will mention Shadow as being "Immortal" or "Ageless". While never stated in the 2005 game, it makes complete sense, as Shadow was made with Black Doom's own genetic material. Black Doom is immortal, Black Doom's genes are in Shadow, thus, Shadow cannot die of old age.

There is, however, no implication that he does not mentally mature. In fact, it would make sense for him to start out quite young to then become more mature as time goes on, since part of the reason he was made was to accompany Maria, in a sibling-like relationship. Although it's unlikely that the Sonic Channel artwork is canon, most of it at least, it does convey a situation akin to this, which would be horribly out of character otherwise.

Look at em! They're doing their homework together! And then a few years later, after Maria's death...

Look at him! Using a minigun for the first time!

His maturity in SA2 also seems just about on par with Sonic's, so it's safe to assume that when that game happened, they were about even in terms of mental development. In general, Shadow is a Sonic counterpart. A very, very close counterpart.

... Very... Very... Ah screw it, let's just bite the bullet.

This happened! An entire Bumblekast episode dedicated to Sonic, Shadow, and mostly Sonadow. It's pretty recent, too! From 8 months ago! In fact, it was made for Pride Month 2023; after Frontiers released. So, Ian Flynn by then became not just a comic writer, but a writer for the games.

I'm not saying Sonadow is canon, obviously, but if the current writer of the games is willing to entertain it for an entire episode and even go as far as saying it's actually really easy to make happen and you don't need to do too much work for it to happen, then it's probably safe to assume the characters are on even ground in terms of maturity.

So, if Shadow can hypothetically, in a fully canon-compatible way, make out with Sonic, and Sonic is fuckable, then Shadow is, by extension, fuckable.

Honestly this is entirely longer than necessary. I could have brought this one up earlier and saved myself the work. Where's the fun in that, though?

Either way, verdict is;

You can, in fact, fuck Shadow The Hedgehog.

[ditto-not-on-discord]

in less than 60 days, It will have been a year since blaseball was suddenly canceled.

TRUST ME, THE OTHER TAGS WILL MAKE SENSE IN A LITTLE WHILE.

Blaseball, in its 2.867 Years of existence, was many things. but the easiest way to describe it is "Good". It had a very incredible fanbase that still kind of mourns the game to this day. the devs had a panel at GDC in 2022. It was nominated for a Nebula Award for Best Game Writing in 2021 and also the "Best Video Game" at The Hugo Awards in 2021. It won the Nuovo Award at the independent games festival in 2021. people could observe the games happening, gamble fake money, and also affect how the story and the characters would develop at certain points. It was a great game, that sadly was canceled because the cost that was needed to run the game was too high for the team at the game band to support, at least according to wikipedia. It being dead is also a major part in proving that there is no justice in the universe because of it not being here, yet SILENT HILL ASCENSION SOMEHOW HASN'T KICKED THE BUCKET YET.

Now for all Silent Hill fans who have blocked that game out of their memory, and for everyone who has no idea what Silent Hill Ascension IS, here is a refresher:

"Released" on October 31st, 2023 (which was already a bad day for me, but I am NOT getting into that), Silent Hill Ascension is an interactive thing (listen its not a tv show, and it isnt a video game. the developers say that its "the best of both", but lets be honest its more of the WORST of both) that is canon to the silent hill franchise.

people can observe the games happening, gamble fake money, and also affect how the story and the characters would develop at certain points. Yes, I know this sounds EXACTLY the same as what I described blaseball as, but thats because I purposefully oversimplified both games a bit. Silent Hill Ascencion has bland writing (so bland people even thought it was AI), all the mechanical depth of a bad mobile game, and all the horrible microtransactions (loot boxes, a season pass, and something else I will get into later) as well. Blaseball, as previously mentioned, was nominated for several story writing awards, had enough mechanical depth that some fans created a SCIENTIFIC COLLECTIVE TO ANALYZE IT, and at the time it died, NEVER had any micro transactions or a fee to enter.

Remember how both games use fake money? In Blaseball, those who were in the 1% of money havers had all their coins distributed to the other players. In Silent Hill Ascension, you can literally just buy so many "Influence Points" that you can manipulate the entire fucking story, and you can hoard them for as long as you fucking want. Also, Something else I want to mention: Literally nobody talks about Silent Hill Ascension because its so bad. hell, and those that do talk about it DON'T have anything good to say. very few people play it, and there are a shit ton of bots that the devs added so it feels like more people are actually watching. Silent Hill Ascension has reached lower lows than blaseball ever did, and is less than half a year old. So why the hell is it still alive, when a game that did its entire stick better is fucking dead. THE ONLY REASON I CAN THINK OF FOR IT BEING ALIVE IS BECAUSE ITS SUPPORTED BY FUCKING KONAMI.

There is no justice in the world.

[itsm3m00n]

so i started reading Marionetta on Webtoon (very good btw) but one of my main issues is Julia and how the fanbase excuses her extreme bigotry and obsessive friendship.

they constantly bring up "oh she died for Kamille!" not intentionally! both Kamille and Julia have gone through hell in their own ways. Kamille is not responsible for Julia's death and she should not be grateful for Julia dying on her own accord.

both Kamille and Julia are extremely flawed. Kamille has certainly been a bad friend. she forgot Julias birthday, and spent less time with her. However, there were so many people willing to help Julia through her tough times, but she instead decided to be racist and horrible to them all.

the majority of the fanbase is completely overlooking this, probably because Kamille isn't the protagonist. Webtoon has had a lot of instances where the female Protagonist has been deeply flawed, but can do no wrong in the fandoms eyes because "everyone has problems" but then they go and hate on the secondary female character for having a life.

Julia has had extreme trauma, from dying and from having to kill Tonny. But there have been so many people trying to help, and instead she chooses to obsess over her friend who's only dream was to not be forced into an arranged marriage. Kamille is her own person and her life should not have to revolve around Julia's.

when Julia arrives at the circus, she immediately tries to drag her away and escape, without listening to a word Kamille says. it takes Kamille literally pushing her out a window for Julia to actually listen to her, and even then she doesnt respect her friends wishes. for nearly the entire comic Julia keeps trying to get Kamille out of the Circus, despite Kamille expressing multiple times that she is happy there and doesnt want to go back to her terrible home.

Now to address the Rainah and Sahed situation. They are big factors in both characters stories. Kamille's slightly obsessive crush on Rainah is one of her flaws, bacause she is allowed to be in love, however she completely abandons her friend for it.

On Julia's part, however, she is being severely manipulated by Sahed (i could write a novel on why that ship is extremely toxic). this is not her fault. Sahed is incredibly hot. however, when Kamille tells Julia about how she's in love with Rainah, Julia doesn't let her finish and immediately assumes Kamille is in love with Sahed.

Julia then goes on to completely destroy Kamille's and Rainah's friendship and doesn't apologize for it. Good job Julia. I might also add for those who don't already know, Kamille is a queer woman of color. now you may understand why the fanbase hates her so much. of course, no one says this out loud, they instead constantly blame Kamille for Julias bad descisions and say that Kamille is a terrible friend.

at the base of their problems is the fact that they don't communicate. Julia never expresses her concerns and never tells Kamille about what she's going throuh, instead she bottles it up and then explodes, blaming Kamille. Kamille doesnt tell julia about her issues and why she ran away.

Both Kamille and Julia are extremely flawed and they are both bad friends. My point is, Kamille should not under any circumstances be hated more than Julia for being a bad friend when Julia was Racist, Bigoted, and refused to be nice to literally anybody.

[altocat]

The OG “Sephiroth should forever be a mysterious scary villain with no elaboration on his human side” fans are being so frustrating lol. Guys he has been “super mysterious” for 26 years now, let’s get to know him a bit better finally. Especially in this modern day where people like to explore villain motivations better and not fall into the trap of dehumanizing them to separate ourselves from their “monstrosity.”

If millions of people could be heavily moved and made to think about say, the Joker of all characters, because of one well-written movie about his story, then we can do the same with our anime katana villains.

And actually, let’s also just admit that Sephiroth has always been the same character, but these fans truly did not know it, as EC insists on saying. Insightful fans did and yet they were accused of “woobifiying” his character by doing that. Now the one-dimensional Sephiroth fans are accusing Square of doing the same thing lmao.

What did they think was happening or being imploed about Sephiroth with the remnants in Advent Children? What did they think Crisis Core showed for Sephiroth? What did they think Sephiroth’s very specific obsession with his “mother” even as a villain implied? Or what DOC was doing when it showed how Lucrecia lost her baby after committing to a horrible experiment surrounding his birth?

Even OG FF7 Sephiroth in Nibelheim, cold as he was, implied he had no hometown, that he had parental issues and Hojo issues. This character was always the same. We are just having it more clearly spelled out and it hurts even worse than we anticipated. But it’s not ruining Sephiroth by any means. Those “fans” don’t know him at all.

All of this!

Hate to say it...but the Compilation is mostly what is currently drawing in new fans. And fans are the blood of keeping a fanbase alive. More content. More analysis. Etc. If more people are drawn to Sephiroth because he's now more compelling and relatable, that's a good thing. And he WAS always like this. Even as far back as the OG, lots of his unused dialogue paints a really different picture that what we'd come to expect.

I completely understand OG fans' frustration, but these are the original writers and creators of the OG working on the Compilation. It's their characters. They can flesh them out into whatever they want. Sure, there's going to be some clunky writing and some no-so-great retcons. Hell, I'm PREPPING for ones that will seriously piss me off. But making a villain more complex and less cliche? I'm all for that. Pure evil villains are boring. There's nothing in there. Seph has always been sympathetic. We're just finding out why. 26 years is enough time in between to wait before we finally dig into it.

[imminent-danger-came]

tbh you are so real for talking about the misogyny targeted to mei & other women in the lmk fandom. in general its like people only value mei as: a: the wingman to some basic mlm ship or b: macaque 2.0. its honestly crazy how so many male side characters overshadow her in the fanbase despite not even having a FRACTION of her screen time. idk chat i feel like the reason people dont care about mei but care about some random male side/background character is less because they're inherently more likeable but because some of you view women as inherently less likable. and everyone is always like "mei is so girlboss pussy cunt slay shes the only reason theyre still alive because she keeps them safe from their silly boy shennanigans shes their ultimate wingman shes so badass shes their lesbian best friend i totally paid attention to her when i watched this show LOL" and even ignoring the obvious misogyny here (ie. how people reduce her to being the male characters babysitter) its like... okay... i know mei is cool & badass already... could you name literally ANY other character trait she has. like people just value her as being "the braincell" who can get red son and mk together or something stupid and its like are we having fun still is this still fun. literally every day i go into the mei tag its like "look at mei shes red sons wifey and shes vaguely in the background of this drawing of red son and mk staring into each others eyes #trafficlighttrio am i right oh look shes macaques niece now this post is about ao lie why is it in the mei tag"

and thats literally JUST talking about mei and it doesnt even begin to cover the other female characters. chang'e constantly gets reduced to being red sons aunt/mom/big sister despite them like. not having any actual interactions in the show. lady bone demon constantly gets overshadowed by her minion who has like 2 seconds of screen time, or she gets made into a cartoonishly abusive madwoman who people call lady bitch demon. just in general people act like shes a horrible person for like. being a villain. liks yeah the trying to destroy everything was bad but also she was an antagonist and thats what antagonists do LOL. spider queen gets completely ignored. princess iron fan gets made into a cartoonishly abusive mother so that way red son can have a poor angsty backstory and some male character (usually nezha, macaque, swk) can take care of him.

(also theres just a great deal of ethnocentrism in the lmk fanbase? like im white so take what İ say here with a grain of salt but so many people will misconstrue aspects of chinese culture for their own personal hcs. people will say male characters are transfem or nonbinary while completely ignoring the time period/culture their from where thats the norm. like yippee youve implied that an east asian man is feminine/emasculine because he has long hair. how do you not see the negative connotations with this. people also turn pif (& lbd to an extent) into a dragon lady which obviously has negative racial connotations lol.)

anyway this is where my unhinged rambling ends have a good day have a good night İ had more to say here but İ reached the text limit. İ dont see a lot of people talk about the misogyny thats prevalent in the lmk fanbase so İm glad youre pointing it out lol.

Yeah, I totally hear you. The lmk fandom has plenty of issues with misogyny and, like you said, ethnocentrism. It's definitely something worth having a discussion about, along with these issues in fandom as a whole.

[showtoonzfan]

I honestly need to rant real quick, but I’m so fucking tired of HH/HB fans acting like the reason why some of us don’t like Vivziepop today is because of all the stupid shit she pulled back in the day around 2013-2015 or whatever, basically in her old art days, and guess what? I don’t give a shit about ANY of that. I can’t speak for the other critic blogs, but here’s MY take. No I don’t think she’s racist, no I don’t think she’s a pedophile, no I don’t care about the whole “SHE TRACED SHIT” situation, no I don’t care about the weird Zoophobia art she drew back in the day, trust me, I could care less about the old controversies that came up at the time, that’s not why I hold so much resentment towards her.

I hold so much resentment towards her because she’s just a bully and an asshole who never learns. She never changed in my eyes, she continues to be this petty, unprofessional woman who can’t take criticism, knocks those down who don’t like her shows, handles many situations horribly like having public meltdowns on twitter or enabling her fanbase to do stupid shit. She NEVER takes accountability for her actions, she never has for fucking years. She didn’t take accountability for all the shit she’s done to Starvader, Kat, and Dollcreep (even if they were in the wrong too) and when she DOES take accountability, it’s the most half assed, gaslighting thing ever. She uses her trauma as an excuse, and rarely acts like an adult when mishaps happen, like how she joined that random livestream of a fan expressing their beef with the HB episode 8 announcement, going to the comments and typing out this pick me sob fest, which caused her fans to attack that person so badly until they left the fandom completely, or how she sent her lawyer after Erin Frost despite Erin the first time not breaking any NDA’s and only sharing their experience working for the crew. Even though she was more controversial in the old days, there’s COUNTLESS shit she’s done in the 2019-Present era that had made me heavily dislike her.

She may be more tame compared to how she was in her deviant art and tumblr days, but in my opinion she just never changed, she just knows how to hide it better. She’s not an idiot, she knows she has a huge ass fandom right behind her who worships the ground she walks on, and she uses that to her advantage. She can’t be touched. I would have respected her if she actually took accountability and stopped acting so dumb with her opinions, how her head is so far up her ass since she’s bisexual and thinks that anyone who doesn’t like her shows are either homophobes or haters, or any of the other dumb takes she has, but she can’t for the life of her wake up and get her shit together. She’s an asshole, she’s mistreated people horribly in the past, she gaslights anyone who thinks she could be better, and she acts like a woman child. THAT’S why I don’t like her, not because of her freaking art, because of her as a person. And it’s honestly just sad. This is just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

[greggorylee]

Do you have a screenshot of his responses? Also what year was this?

context

its not the entire emails since there are parts not relevant, like me mentioning unrelated things or complimenting him, etc. the 2nd point i brought up to him but omitted was about the weebish elements of the game that my korean sibling expressed distaste with, and toby seemed receptive to.

my email:

"On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:33 AM

Hey there Toby,

Another Tobi here. I'd like to start off by congratulating you on the 1 year anniversary of your truly incredible game. It changed mine and many, many other's lives. However, it hasn't been all for the good.

I simply wanted to address the matter of some decisions you made in creating the game that have expanded in the fanbase and, well, have hurt and are hurting many people."

"-- Firstly, I have no idea what design choices led you to create Frisk's sprite in such a manner, or whether or not you did this purposefully, but they are (intentionally or not) a harmful stereotype of east asians called yellowface. Which is...very, extremely racist. This has been spoken about by east asian people for a long, long time."

"-- Thirdly, and this may seem small, but the incest joke. Incest is a very real and damaging thing and should not be taken lightly. It's rather insensitive to joke about the situations that have caused people (mostly children) severe trauma. Similar to joking about rape. You just don't do it.

I bring these things up because your decisions affect others. Is that not what Undertale is about? The effect of your decisions? Unfortunately the effect that yours have made within the fanbase are quite damaging.

Because Frisk's sprite is the way it is, hundreds of either ignorant/uneducated or young artists are now drawing yellowface. This is horribly harmful and spreading a racist stereotype."

"I'm not trying to hold you accountable for all the harmful behaviors the Undertale fabase make... By no means would that be fair. I just want you to understand that your choices made a ripple effect, and when people are hurt by this and speak up about it, it's important to not, you know, absolutely dismiss them."

toby's response:

"From: Undertale . <undertalegame@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 6:01:40 AM

1. This was not my intention. In order to make the character design less "normal," I gave them yellow skin like in "The Simpsons." Also, by making the skin color unrealistic, allows fans to have more of an interpretation regarding how to draw it.

In the future, if I make more media, I definitely won't create a character design like this. My apologies."

(i find this last sentence interesting since kris is also yellow skinned and it felt like toby just hid their eyes to avoid controversy?)

"3. Huh? There was no incest joke in the game? OK, seriously, what the hell are you talking about? Please link me to whatever you are talking about. That would be a real issue.

Regarding the tweet, it's real, but I made it in poor taste 3 years ago and deleted it. I definitely would not have made it even 2 years ago and am sorry if I offended anyone with it. I have definitely changed since then and would never make a tweet like that now."

(the tweet in question is an old tweet Toby made joking about fontcest. i also find toby's first reply interesting because he seems to have forgotten about the incest joke written between dogamy and dogaressa post-pacifist. i dont blame him after writing thousands of lines of dialogue, however, when i replied providing him evidence of the "real issue" and asked if he could consider removing it, he did not reply nor address it anywhere else. it makes the claim that he's changed past thinking incest is funny seem less genuine.)

my reply (that was ignored):

[ screenshot attachments of the dogi incest joke, email sent 9/20/2016 ]

"1. I very well understand what you mean by the intent behind Frisk's character sprite. Specifically it was the skin color and the shape of the eyes that just unfortunately happened to align with a stereotype, and I'm very glad you understand that."

"3. I included screenshots of the jokes. When one of the Dogi mention that being married to one's sister is normal for dogs. I'm sorry if it seems nitpicking, and I know that the joke was likely just a joke about how dogs are prone to incest, but it was still in basics a joke with incest as the punchline. I did not try to scare you by the mention of the attempted suicide. The person's alive and okay, my only intention was to provide an example of how serious incest will affect survivors. Perhaps that wasn't the best example to use, and I'm terribly sorry. Again I wasn't trying to imply anything was your fault, just that incest is not an appropriate thing to take lightly, that's all.

About the tweet; it's good to hear, thank you for addressing that. I've definitely said my fair share of tasteless things in the past that I've also grown from."

"The only thing I ask is that perhaps if you were able, if you could address some of these issues publicly. I'm not trying to pressure you, but I really do think it could make a difference in the behavior of the fanbase. Many, MANY people consider your word as law, and I understand that might be overwhelming, but if you mentioned that Frisk's sprite wasn't meant to be a stereotype and that incest shouldn't be glorified or joked about, etc, it could change some people's minds for the better. For example, a friend of mine who's an incest survivor has to deal with a lot of Undertale fans who create incest content -- he's had to block at least 2,000 people, and that list is growing because more and more are put in public tags on tumblr which put him and other survivors at risk, he's gotten endless attacks and death threats and hate messages for saying "incest porn is bad", and this is a struggle he deals with daily. A lot of those people won't change, but with your word some might, and it would at least give us leverage when arguing for the safety of others."

"And again I'm not trying to imply any of this nasty behavior is your fault. It seems that you really didn't have any idea, and I'm REALLY sorry to have to bring up the ugly side of your fanbase, I know it's an unfun and uncomfortable time, but the unfortunate truth is that fiction affects reality and how people treat each other, which you've found from the messages you say you've gotten from people saying Undertale has inspired them and made them try to act nicer. I hope it doesn't seem like I'm making an unreasonable demand, I just thought it wouldn't hurt to give that idea a shot. You'd be surprised how much difference your word could make."

"Thank you once again for listening, it really does honestly mean the world. Your game really did touch my life--and that's the reason I was ever compelled to email you. I am certain that you only meant good and fun when you made the game, and I hope it hasn't seemed like I was accusing you of intentional bigotry. I simply wanted a chance to offer insight so that an artist like yourself can go on to create art that has less and less harmful content, because hey, we all have to comb that stuff out of our own art and mindsets. We're kindof raised on bigoted stuff, so we all gotta grow from it, and we all sometimes need to be made aware of ourselves. I hope that all makes sense, I do hope you understand, and that nothing came off weirdly."

... and that's where i was left, 6 years ago or so. i cannot for the life of me find his follow up email claiming how he didnt want his work to come off racist, but its clear in my memory when mentioning it to friends at the time.

personally i dont think toby is a horrible person or whatever, like i mentioned in my first post i think he just simply doesnt want to face the results of taking public responsibility for the problems in his own game, or even backlash in response to him denouncing parts of the fanbase, etc. but like i also mentioned, it's cowardly to to nothing at all about things you're very aware about. i just feel like if he really was concerned about what i brought to his attention, something wouldve been done in the past half decade. not that he owes me or any of us anything personally, but i just find it disappointing all the same after being given the impression that our feelings and safety matter

[woomycritiques543]

As a lackadaisy fan who dropped helluva 5 episodes in, I think you’re overestimating the effect of the fandom has on things outside of itself because you are inmeshed in it. You don’t have the outside view. Don’t get me wrong, it sounds like a toxic shit show, but it doesn’t have a ‘monopoly’. If all it took to gain a monopoly in entertainment was to have a horribly rabid fanbase that won’t take the smallest bit of criticism, the history of indie entertainment would be very different.

(TW: LONG POST, mentions of Vivziepop's behavior, also if you're another lackadaisy fan that's curious about what's been happening over at the Hazbin fandom PLEASE DONT SKIP THIS POST!)

"If all it took to gain a monopoly in entertainment was to have a horribly rabid fanbase that won’t take the smallest bit of criticism, the history of indie entertainment would be very different."

Hm...

As a Helluva Boss fan who's seen how many views most indie projects have nowdays, plus what Vivziepop did here, especially since this wasnt just about the fanbase to begin with:

(Psst. Vivienne, these people got bills and families to pay for, so maybe dont try to push them away from other projects just because you like Hazbin Hotel? You can hire other people, you've done it millions of times before- let other projects thrive, and let them have different projects so they can be successful too! Far-Fetched barely has as any workers compared to you, so maybe stop being selfish and share the load so other projects can get all the help they can get? Especially when you rush out 5+ episodes a year and treat your staff like shit? So maybe... I dont know... treat them better so "A BUNCH!" of people from Spindlehorse wont think of even having to do so much extra work, day jobs and all, when there's 40+ million bucks sitting from your shows RIGHT THERE?! There's a reason why "a bunch" of people would be brought to do other projects at the same time. -and it's not because of all the red...)

I think it's pretty safe to say that theres an obvious monopoly going on. Why else would these episodes be getting 20+ million at a time, for years, while other just as good projects get next to none in comparison. Honestly, look at how much views, how many trends the shows follow, how much mainstream appeal, how much merchandising fills the "shelves" of Sharkrobot, how many episodes were shilled out in 2021 alone, how much it dominates the indie industry, and try to tell me that Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are " not a monopoly!" Shilling out multiple Helluva Boss episodes full of softcore porn and bright colors a year to keep Spindlehorse's shows on top of the trending tag on Youtube EVERY YEAR SINCE 2019! -and end being what millions end up being reccomended. Though many people dont know that HB exists, many others do, and it's almost constantly being mentioned with indie animation while equally beautiful looking, or much better written projects get only 50,000+ views. Even in spite of Exxes and Oohs situation:

Season Two's premiere got 4+ million views in 15 hours.

While when I was watching the premiere of Exxes and Oohs with my freinds a couple of weeks ago after it premiered:

I noticed that it only had 1 million views in 5 hours, and then pretty much stayed that way throughout the entire week with only about 3 million for several days after Ep 1 had 4+ mil in only 15 hours.

While the premeire of Season Two passed 4+ million in LESS THEN TWENTY FOUR HOURS! -and the last episode is barely over it's despite being over 5 months apart. It's been a whole month, yet Seeing Star's views are still similar to when it was released and Exxes and Oohs is barely surpassing Seeing Stars despite a whole month having passed, while for Season One, in 5 months there would be 20+ million views and at times... more!

-and just to make this worse...

Hazbin Hotel.. a show with a pilot with over 70+ million views:

It's anniversary/sneak peak into the official show got only-

Get this...

THREE MILLION VIEWS!

-when FIVE WHOLE MONTHS have already passed and the fandom's still popular! While most of the previews for the pilot got OVER 3.5 million and the most popular being 20+ mil!

So it's really just people not caring to see the literal anniversary of the show since most were turned off by Helluva Boss or moved on because they grew out of all the stereotypes. It's got only about 0.8% of the views Hazbin's pilot has gotten despite the fact that people have been waiting for this show for THREE YEARS now and the fandom is bigger than ever. So even for that monopoly, it's slowly falling, and people barely cared about Hazbin's anniversary and release date reveal despite having waited for 3+ years.

So "Seeing Stars's" views has barely budged since release, Season Two's premiere has 20+ mil, but has also been that way since over three months ago, Exxes and Oohs only had 1 mil after even 5+ hours and onward, and Hazbin Hotel, a show with billions of fans, it's anniversary got only 3 mil- while the past season made OVER A YEAR AGO continues to receive views regularly. Meanwhile, Lackadaisy, had 6+ million in only TWO WEEKS while Exxes and Oohs barely got passed that in that time period (I remember it having maybe 5+ mil in about two weeks last time I checked, or even less that that.) and has been stagnant in views for 3+ weeks while Lackadaisy got over half of that in only 2+ weeks.

Which now makes it Helluva Boss's very first competitor.

While Murder Drones has Seeing Star's level of views after an ENTIRE YEAR so this is really saying something about the quality of Helluva Boss's latest episodes as Season One still skyrockets, the latest episodes stay stagnant even after 3+ weeks, and Helluva Boss now has a direct competitior due to this lowering in quality and just how many reviews are now criticizing it while Lackadaisy's reviews are majority positive with little to no hiccups in between.

Not joking, the first thing you get when you search "Seeing Stars Review" is thousands of negative reviews because of Vivienne, Adam, and Brandon Rodger's refusing to improve in their WRITING- you know... WHAT THEY WROTE ON A DOCUMENT?! The thing people have been CRITIQUEING?! Not "a personal, useless preference" but ACTUAL CRITICISM that they keep ignoring to look "near perfect" and to keep the monopoly going while other indie shows continue to get mediocure level views in comparison to Helluva Boss.

The views have been stagnant since near release. I remember seeing 17 million 3 weeks after it came out- and now it wont budge!

Yeah, im sure those statistics and thousands of people getting upset for actual reasons are "bad faith!" too. Adam- FUCK OFF! People aren't "bad faith" for telling you that using anti-black and fatphobic stereotypes in your show is awful! Also- you're show is now getting genuine competition so I suggest not being an egotistical jerk to your own fans and to actually listen to them for once before shit hits the fan and you have to further get hit by your own karma!

While look at all of the positive reviews Lackadaisy's getting!

Lackadaisy has almost all positive reviews, is catching up with Helluva Boss's latest episodes, all the other episodes in Season Two are also still static in views and Season One continues to get thousands on a daily basis, and yet is still- and I mean- still, Barely scratching Daisy's success! In comparison to how you'd think these "still being rewatched a lot" last episodes would be doing since this is HB, the monopoly of indie animation, that we're talking about!

So i'd say that Helluva Boss Season Two has been getting it really rough for the past 8 months in comparison to the success Season One still has, and even then, the first episode still has 54+ mil and yet most of the episodes continued to decrease by the millions each release. So even in Season One, the signs that people were losing interest were already there. -and Ozzies and Truth Seekers have just now caught up with Season Two's first episode (You know... the one people got hyped as all hell by but then lost interest once the episode started getting slammed for how terrible it was?) despite being the ones that are praised often, while Season Two's premiere has barely budged for the past year- making this a receipe for MILLIONS of lost views in total, and this is a fandom that constantly says "I binge watch the episodes a ton!" and yet Season One has barely budged in one and a half years. Its been in 30+ mil I think since last year... it's April now. -and they're now all catching up to each other and are about the same views, which would mean that they're barely going up by the thousands for ENTIRE MONTHS and Season Two, is getting even less because of the negative reviews from not a "useless personal opinion" but OBJECTIVELY BAD WRITING!

Season Two stays stagnant in views even after 5+ weeks and onward since the difference in views is that small.

THEY NOW HAVE A COMPETITOR! So Vivienne really needs to start giving a shit or WOOAH boy things are going to get intense!

So though Helluva Boss is still on top, it's falling over, and now has competition to worry about after only two weeks.

-and even then, it's still on top, because of Vivienne manipulating both her audience and staff into meeting constant demands and giving it constant praise regardless of quality under the threat of being seen as a "bad person" for not doing so.

Helluva Boss having almost billions of dollars in merch, 40+ million views with many of their episodes, a majority celebrity cast with little to no indie actors, Vivziepop having basically tried to put down Far Fetch from having any actual success by trying to not get her team with a show of BILLIONS of views to not work on it just because Hazbin is her "favorite project!" when these people have BILLS TO PAY and a FAMILY that can't be held up just by one project- which is why people like Erin had to work extra jobs, overnight, despite this show getting millions of dollars each day, in the first place! Yet to Vivienne, what mattered the most was her project, and not their lives. Which is the reason why she overworks her staff, and according to people who worked there, aren't even actually allowed to work on other projects, including Far-Fetched, either. While Far Fetched has not nearly as many people working on it and everything we see there has with has 100,000+ or less while Helluva Boss continues to monopolize the industry. (in case you're asking: Yes, it was also her supervisor's fault, but she's a million dollar creator, can't she just hire someone else instead of getting in the way of other people's lives other a cartoon show? Most freelancers do multiple projects, how else are they going to pay the bills?)

Yeah, Erin was lifted from a few things- but did they still have to work an extra job just to support themselves despite working for a 40+ million dollar show, did most people in Spindlehorse end up having to suffer even worse to meet those kinds of demands?

YES!

So does that make all the "Erin's not a real victim" or "Erin Frost's mistakes, as a human being, makes everything people say about Vivienne's behavior "not true" just because we beleive people who bootlick Vivienne but not people that she's hurt despite both people "only" using word of mouth. Except no, because no the ex-staff have evidence and yet the current staff who threatened to punch the people who spoke out about Vivziepop's behavior have nothing but word of mouth but we'll still beleive them just because they give us softcore porn! :D" comments now complete bullshit?

YES!

-and with Ashley Nichols in particular:

You'd think that Vivziepop would try to help Ashley... A LOT!

-since Ashley gave her projects millions of views in publicity and support with Hunicast and having actually worked on Hazbin!

But instead, Viv prioritized herself in the situation, fired all of her indie voice actors and replaced most of them with celebrities when she could have easily found other indie vcs but choose to use her status to get an actor from Grey's Anatomy and NORMAN REEDUS- and most likely will get more celeberties for Hazbin just because "famous = don't accociate with indie actors." appparently despite her main thing being "Support indie creators guys! :("

Vivziepop, again, pulling herself up while she's already been the top of the indie industry for the past 4+ years, while other projects continue to be pushed into the mud of a "cult classic" grave.

So in reality- Helluva Boss isnt "helping" the indie industry grow stronger, it's causing a monopoly which gets in the way of people's shows, their careers, their jobs, and even their mental health.

-and many people having little to no mentions of other projects outside of "Look at this pretty cool project I found- Ok, BACK TO HELLUVA BOSS AND HAZBIN HOTEL WOOOOAH LOOK THIS IS THE BEST INDIE SHOW EVAR!1!" is a literal monopoly in it's most capitalistic, trend serving, overproduced form.

Ashley even saw Vivienne trying to blacklist yet another staff member just because that staff member was upset about how much they were being rushed and overworked in order to meet even near the same demands, even with a few things being lifted since they have ADHD, they were still overworked, and for the rest of the staff it was even worse since they were overworked and bullied in order to meet the demands of said monopoly and stay in Spindlehorse.

Far Fetched got announced years ago- yet Vivziepop hasnt even mentioned it once as far as ive seen, she fired Ashley's partner and seeing how HB is, is likely going to replace him with an non-indie voice actor when apparently she could have easily kept them if she just paid a fee, when she has MILLIONS of dollars in support for her show now, lives in LA, and could easily use her platform to support THOUSANDS of indie projects. But as usual, she pulls herself up, bullies her own fandom by saying that they're "NOT A WRITER!" and "CANT UNDERSTAND WRITING!" for giving her any feedback and has basically manipulated her audience into seeing her and her shows as "NEAR PERFECT!" to continue said monopoly with HB's continous trending and high reviews regardless of quality. While other projects are only "secondairy". -and despite having worked on Hazbin Hotel, Far Fetched has gotten the average amount of acknowledgement for indie animation- Which, isnt much... at all.

Compared to that of mainstream shows, and especially Hazbin Hotel!

Yet as usual, Vivziepop manipulates her followers into contuining to put her on top regardless of her channel's ever reducing quality, and even views since it's lost millions since debut. With people constantly making excuses such as "ITS JUST BEEN UP LONGER!" and "ITS NOT LOSING VIEWS THE PANDEMIC HAS JUST ENDED AND PEOPLE ARE OFFLINE MORE NOW!"

Yeah-

Say that to how Lackadaisy has 6+ million in only two weeks despite being another show altogether, despite the show also having been produced in the pandemic since 2019.

It's been only two weeks yet it already has almost just as many views, and if this keeps up, will likely even have more than HB's latest episode while "EXXES AND OOHS!" has been only at 13+ since it was released. It barely has moved on inch in a entire month while Lackadaisy keeps going... and going... and going...

While Helluva Boss's latest episode has barely scratched the surface despite being just as new with only a month difference.

It's honestly messed up how Ashley was shafted after supporting Vivziepop and working for her after all this time. Same for all the other artists who worked for her. -and as Erin said:

-and seeing how Far Fetched is doing right now, this couldnt be any more evident of just how much of a capitalistic, worker mistreating, monopoly that Vivziepop's channel has become to the point where people who worked with her FOR YEARS still end up getting the short end of the stick or even outright harassed by her and her fandom, and she doesnt even defend them, she just... let's the bullying happen, let's her ex staff get slandered, let's her staff threaten to HIT THEM while only caring about shippings involving literal FICTIONAL CHARACTERS! -and last time I checked... going to the levels of not just trying to manipulate people into thinking that Vivienne is a "perfect little lamb" to gaslight people into not looking into how she treats her staff- but also THREATENING VIOLENCE over the fact that someone was actually honest about what was happening in Spindlehorse- Isnt exactly what i'd like to call "good treatment" of your staff since Vivienne let you do this to people. Hell- is- IS THIS EVEN ALLOWED ON TWITTER?! Is it even allowed for people on the platform to threaten to hurt someone on Twitter in their guidelines, hell, is it even legal to threaten to hurt someone like this at all?! Especially if it's being used to threaten people into not speaking out about actual workplace mistreatment?!

HOLY SHIT! Just let these people tell you that you need to do better, and going to the levels of threatening to hit someone for critiqueing Vivienne for her behavior even once and then going out of your way to call them "GLASS JAWED MOTHER FUCKERS!" is genuine hostility and honestly, I dont even think it's even legal to verbally harass and threaten people to this extent. WHAT THE FUCK?!

I looked into this and... yeah! What Monica did was against Twitter guidelines by threatening to hit people who were in the studio that said anything about how Viv was actually acting.

I also checked to make sure, but.... yeah, she actually wanted to hit people for saying that Vivienne was overworking her own staff by rushing and also having to work full day jobs despite Helluva Boss continuisly ranking in millions of dollars. Which means that they were getting a small percentage of pay compared to what ends up being used for Vivziepop's "spectacle!" animation. So this isn't just acephobia, but also threatening genuine violence towards people for saying that they don't deserve to be mistreated. This is vile.

Hell, even without those guidelines- it's disgusting that Vivienne let her staff talk to people this way and then also mistreated Spindlehose for all these years too. NO ONE deserves to be treat this way for speaking out, especially if all they're doing is saying what happened to them in a studio that they worked in, and the fact that everyone demonizes Erin Frost for a few mistakes but then lets Vivziepop's "favorites" threaten to HIT SOMEONE is actually horrifying.

Honestly.

Helluva Boss isnt even "INDIE" anymore, it just fills up space in the indie community while clearly being a million dollar, mainstream show that has Norman Reedus and other celebrities in it to give the "We're indie so we can do what we want just because we're smaller than Disney!" excuse to be assholes to other people for even saying something as simple as "tone down the saturation a bit."

It's a monopoly. A monopoly built on years of breaking trust, threats, more bullying, betrayal, prioritizing in fame over indie creators, worker mistreatment, rushed projects, fanbase manipulation, and it's why I have so much faith in Lackadaisy. It gives me hope, it gives me hope that one day Vivienne will finally get told to "WAKE UP!" through all that's been happening. That the monopoly will end, that the indie industry will become more balanced again, that freelance artists will be treated better and receive more respect for their craft instead of just being used to meet corperate demands. That hope... is why, that though I like Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, that I also wish for other creators to get the spotlight and that one day... maybe... just maybe... that a new franchise will take Helluva Boss's place.

So to answer your question:

Yes. By defintion Helluva Boss has become a monopoly. It's taking a large chunk of the indie animation industry, and the creators overworked their staff to meet high demands for it to get trending almost every year through high amounts of demand and episodes in 2021 alone. It's taken a large amount of control over the industry and it's come to a point where creators have to rely on supporting Vivziepop to even get a piece of what HB has. Honestly, how is that fair? How is it "fair" to overwork her staff and appeal to even the bottom of the barrels of trends to keep her show trending while most of the other indie shows on Youtube suffer for it?!

It's making the indie animation community almost as corperate as the very companies that caused these people to steer towards indie animation in the first place. Which is such a shame, because there's so many good projects out there- yet to be discovered by most people. -and yet HB gets the trending almost every time because it appeals to as many mainstream trends and porn accounts as possible through all it's fetish and ship bait content and mass amounts of merchandising, and from mass amounts I mean HUNDREDS OF PIECES OF MERCHANDISING every year, even after the show already has 40+ million dollars in it's budget so it's just capitalism and mainstream pandering at this point. The indie community went from going against corperations and capitalism to BECOMING corperate and capitalistic.

It makes me miss back when all we had mostly were just fun short films and play dough animations. It's like people in the indie community have forgotten why we even make all these animations in the first place.. Not just for money and sucess....

But for fun, to animate away from corperations... for fun.

[alsostheon]

Lore Olympus from the eyes of a Hellenist

Hey everyone! So I recently discovered some interesting insight that, in a way, changed my view of Lore Olympus as a Hellenic Polytheist. I thought I'd share this with you.

So, I did read Lore Olympus before I was a Hellenist and I honestly loved the webtoon and it was great to read. However, in April of 2022, I became a Hellenist. This made things more complicated.

Now right off the bat, I am a devotee of Apollon. So you can pretty much guess how I felt to see my God being portrayed as a cruel villain in LO, and how I felt to see the fanbase consistently insulting and disrespecting him.

It hurts that even other worshippers of Apollon have actually been mocked for worshipping him, simply because some people only know of him as if he is a made-up character from Lore Olympus.

While this is pretty bad, I've learned that the story itself is not as bad as I thought. Thanks to a few friends on Discord, who are ever knowledgeable, I have gained a new understanding that allows me to appreciate LO more, and I may convince myself to begin reading it again.

The Gods in Lore Olympus are portrayed as heavily flawed, almost like humans. Their realm itself is a reflection of human society. In this webtoon, Apollo does some horrible things and scars Persephone in the worst of ways. However, he is the favourite child and is beloved to all, so nobody would see him as the bad guy, right?

I think when looking at this, as well as other things, we realise something. Lore Olympus is less a story of the Gods, but is rather a story about humans, shared through a retelling of mythology. And it is a story that is quite important for us to hear.

Apollo in LO represents the golden child. The one who gets away with it all and can do everything he desires. The one who is so privileged that he can do any sort of harm, and people will still find a way to defend him. The one who sees himself as so important and grand, that he feels he can enforce his will and desires on everyone and is willing to do anything to get what he wants.

Of course, this Apollo is nothing like the true Apollon. Not even slightly close to our God. However, similar to actual myths, LO is not to be taken as a story of the Gods. Rather, it is a story that tells us something, and uses depictions of the Gods to explain it. We are not mythic literalists of course.

Now, even if we take a look at somebody like Ovid. His depictions and writings of the Gods can often be described as downright disrespectful, despite the fact that we was a Roman who lived during the time when the Gods were still widely worshipped. Ovid often depicted the Gods in pretty negative ways. If I recall correctly, I think I was told that he did this for political reasons too.

Alright so, let me not stretch this post too long. Lore Olympus, despite its problematic fanbase and certain historical and mythological inaccuracies, tells us an important story about human society that often goes unspoken. This webtoon does not reflect the Gods themselves, nor does it necessarily reflect mythology. It reflects human society as a whole, especially focusing on the darker parts of human lives.

I hope I managed to explain this as well as it was explained to me, and I hope that I could provide someone with insight.

Thank you all for reading this! ♡

[wildpeachfarm]

New subject for all of you to discuss!! N.ihachu being hypocritical (again) yippie /s

In her recent interview, she mentioned how misogynistic the Dsmp fanbase was and how none of the men of the servers spoke out about it when Dream has done it multiple times.

Not only that but the people she says she doesn't affiliate with anymore are literally the only one who treated her fairly but Q.uackity and T.ommy are people she interacts with (especially the former) when they were the one treating her unfairly; only seing her as a woman.

When W mentioned admiring Pokimane, T.ommy immediately asked him how Niki would feel and if she knew about it , calling W a "player" By doing so he's obviously insinuating that W and Niki relationship is romantic which is something she's been really uncomfortable with for so long. And when she joined the vc he immediately told her about it with Q.uackity joining him, which is really uncomfortable when they're expecting her to react badly and feed into the 'women hating each other for a man's attention’ plot and she was just so uncomfy with it she just gave one curt answer answer immediately went next to someone else in the game so they could move on.

And they immediately did, they didn’t even interact with her other than this.

vid is : Dsmp election by T.ommy

Hmm okay one thing I will say is that it does need to be acknowledged that the dsmp fandom /did/ treat niki poorly. However, I don't know if I would attribute that to one specific creator or if it was a byproduct of the gaming space generally being incredibly misogynistic and that bleeding into the fandom behavior (still not ok obviously). I do think there is definitely room to criticize the men on the server for not being more openly against the misogyny in the gaming space but I think that can be applied to most mc servers imo.

I will say that niki's feelings about this are always valid of course, but she shouldn't really single out one specific dsmp person over another for being more or less misogynistic or anything like that without proof that they contributed more to the bad environment. And by implying that the reason she doesn't associate with certain people (like dream) is because he is somehow worse than Tommy or Quackity, that's kinda disingenuous.

It's far easier to broadly talk about misogyny in the gaming/minecraft space as a female creator than it is to try to be shady at one creator specifically especially when in this case, I'd argue Dream has tried to do a lot privately and publicly to support the women he knows in this space.

Now, I have not watched this video so I don't know if she actually was implying Dream specifically. So if that's not the case, then a lot of this doesn't really apply to some of the other men on the server considering I did not see vocal support of women from all of them an equal amount.

Also to say that she doesn't affiliate with some of them (let's just assume in this case she /is/ talking about Dream) is kinda untrue considering last september she was hanging at the droncert and invited Dream over her house to play with her cats. And as far as we know, Dream has been nothing but kind to niki since and there have been no issues.

I understand that niki feels like she was treated poorly by the dsmp fanbase and yeah, they were horrible to certain people so I completely get it. However, it's strange to act like cutting /certain/ dsmp men off and then still hanging around /others/ doesn't go against what she said about /all/ of them being bad...? idk that's just confusing to me.

[opinated-user]

Lily: Courtney has shown absolutely zero interest in talking things out over the years, and even less now. Because of that, whether or not there even is anything to apologize for is irrelevant. They clearly would not want to hear it. Besides that’s none of your business

Lily. Where you shop at is none of our business. What clown college you got your takes and education from is none of our business. What your go to order for McDonald’s is none of business,

But the fact you think “I’m accused of doing this horrible thing to my own sister, by my sister. better ignore it.” Is your answer. Yet when people bring up “hey your sister made a very troubling statement about you, are you gonna answer that?” And your answer is “It’s none of your business.” It’s a miracle Lily’s audience hasn’t left yet. It’s almost funny that Lily tries to act so tough about her “bitch” of a sister. Yet you can tell she’s so scared. Cause she knows she can lose what little she truly has

"it's none of your business" is also her go-to response whenever people question her about how she's reconnecting to her supposed Cherokee heritage (that she has no business touching, since her own grandpa was never from that Nation). i think that's just what she says when she knows saying the truth would be worse for her, so she plays it off as a personal business that nobody has even the right to question her about... which, as you very fairly pointed out, is not the case at all. when celebrities have accusations publicly thrown their way, they publicly address it, because people have a right to know the kind of person they're supporting with their attention and money. LO publicly has been fetishizing incest and her actual sister, who was underage at the time, for years before Courtney ever spoke of. LO publicly has decided to create new lies and allegations and stories to try to make Courtney look worse. she made it everyone's business before Courtney did the moment she wrote and published Stockholm. LO knows that there are survivors and other vulnerable traumatized people in her fanbase, so no, it's their business to know if they're supporting a predator and abuser. they have every right to ask about it and demand an answer. they deserved it. LO doesn't get to ignore that because it's inconvenient for her. the comfort of those people will always be more important that the comfort of an abuser.