#why is all my meta about suicide

[i-dreamed-i-had-a-son]

“because he never accepts that it's never been about righteousness--it's about repentance.” except javert killing himself IS repentance.

well, it’s like 12 different things, because bro had gone days without sleeping and very little food and water and he already had low self-worth and kept asking the amis to kill him and just assumed he was going to die AND THEN valjean upended his understanding of the world and morality. he was really going through it & there are a lot of overlapping reasons for why he jumps into the seine.

but javert is like Number One Most Responsible guy in the whole story. taking responsibility is his Thing (forever bitter the musical doesn’t include the punish me monsieur le maire scene). how else, in his derailment, could he atone for his conceived misdeeds other than by handing in his resignation to god? in the brick he had already left a note urging his superiors to treat convicts at toulon better, which is another step in his repentance (and another crime the musical commits by not including it). jumping into the seine was another step.

honestly a lot of ppl who like the book think the musical was dead wrong to exclude him from the big heaven group sing, because it COMPLETELY undermines the themes of forgiveness and compassion threaded throughout les mis. like the musical was simply wrong lol.

This is helpful context! I am still finishing the brick, although I have fully read the abridged version, and that detail about the letter wasn't included, so I didn't know that occurred! (And thank you for the message--this is a long response but I'd love to hear more of your thoughts!)

I agree that Javert is certainly deeply distraught and remorseful; like you mentioned, his worldview is literally falling apart, and his actions reflect his mental state. But his death isn't really repentance--in the sense that it's not what God would have wanted. To me it reads like a Judas situation: a desperate realization of a huge mistake, and doing the only thing you think can make it right, namely, ending it all. That's the just punishment for someone so wrong, isn't it?

But true repentance, meaning the repentance that the Lord desires, is about changing your ways, not "paying a price." Had Javert really understood the beauty of Valjean's mercy (an image of Christ's, just as the bishop's undeserved mercy was to Valjean himself), rather than killing himself, he would have lived to also become "an honest man"--in heart. One who could forgive and understand forgiveness, for himself as well as others. One who could recognize that he is not The Law, that he can fall, but that he can also be "brought to the light." One who could accept that men like Valjean, and men like himself, CAN change, and be changed.

It's tragic to me because so much of "Stars," and his character in the book as well as the musical, is about wanting to be righteous, to rise above his birth and the sinfulness he associates it with. It's about wanting to please the Lord by his actions. But in his end, he shows he never understood what God really wanted from him, and that's where my original phrase comes in: not righteousness, but repentance. To live, and face the man you were, knowing it's no longer the man you are. That it's never been about what you've done or can do, but about what's been done for you. That's the Gospel that he could never fully accept.

To use another example you mentioned, that misunderstanding drives why he asks the Mayor (Valjean) to punish him--in his worldview, mercy is unjust, or at the very least, unfair. Evil must be punished; "those who fall like Lucifer fell" receive "the sword." But "as it is written," God "desires mercy, not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13). God would have wanted Javert to live, and Javert couldn't see that, and that's why it's devastating to me. In his misunderstanding of the heart of God, he misses what would have set him free from the chains of sin he's always been trying to escape.

That's why he's contrasted with Valjean, who (though he carries guilt about his past till the end of his life) is eventually able to face it and confess what he had done to those he loves. He knew there was mercy to be found, if only it was asked for. Javert was too blinded by pride and shame to realize it, and so, while broken, he never was able to truly repent.

For that, you must go on.

[and-this-of-all-my-hopes]

So, I feel like I’m losing my mind. I keep seeing metas about how Aziraphale wants Crowley to return to Heaven and be an angel again because he wants them to be on the same side/be good/change/etc., etc., etc. but I don’t see that at all. I actually see it as the very opposite.

Aziraphale loves Crowley just as he is. But there’s something more. Something huge.

Aziraphale loves Crowley and because he is an angel who is stuck in seeing things as black and white, he constantly praises Crowley for being nice. For being good. For being kind.

Aziraphale has watched Crowley on and off for 6,000 years. He watched him thwart the plans of Heaven and Hell because it was unjust. He spared the lives of innocents. He did small things that made Aziraphale happy just because (like making Hamlet successful and saving valuable books). And because Aziraphale sees things in black and white, he sees all the things Crowley has done as nice, as good, as kind.

Crowley vehemently attests he’s not nice or good or kind.

He’s not exactly wrong nor is he lying when he says this. When Crowley spares goats during a cruel bet over a righteous man and swallowing laudanum to prevent a suicide, when he prevents Armageddon by working with Aziraphale and stopping the Anti-Christ from being the Anti-Christ, he’s not doing the nice/good/kind thing.

He’s doing the right thing.

Crowley chooses to do the right thing without hesitation. He is better than all of Heaven and Hell who have callous and dispassionate view of all existence because he questions, because he makes choices. Crowley sees the world for all its messiness and he sees himself. He sees a place where he fits in. He sees the blurred edges.

And Aziraphale sees that, even if seeing the blurred edges is hard for him.

But here’s the thing that Aziraphale can’t voice.

It’s the reason why he told Crowley about being allowed to return to Heaven and become an angel again. He doesn’t want Crowley to change. He doesn’t think Crowley is flawed. Or not enough.

It’s something that is so monumental that it cannot be put into words. Because to put it into words would be more than blasphemy. It’s down right unthinkable for anyone in Heaven, Hell, or Earth to say what Aziraphale knows deep in his soul.

God was wrong to cast out Crowley.

Aziraphale believes Crowley can/should return to Heaven because he knows that Crowley should never have fallen in the first place. He wants him to be forgiven because when Crowley fell it was unjust. Aziraphale is trying to correct a mistake. He’s trying to do the right thing.

Yes, Crowley would never accept returning to Heaven. And Aziraphale was wrong to even suggest it (although that conversation is another can of worms to unpack).

Aziraphale loves Crowley. He loves him exactly as he is. He doesn’t want him to change. Aziraphale knows that Crowley the best of all of them. He wants to change Heaven because of it. Because God was wrong and Aziraphale knows it.

Aziraphale may have difficulty seeing beyond black and white, but when it comes to Crowley he sees everything crystal clear and in vivid color.

[pluckyredhead]

What the heck is going on in Batman/Gotham War?

I know a lot of people in fandom are confused and/or upset about what's been going on in Gotham War - why is Bruce acting like this, what is Selina doing, why are the Batkids taking sides. So I figured I would fill you all in on what's been happening in Batman and Catwoman since Chip Zdarsky took over with Batman #125, because it has been BONKERS and I have been enjoying the hell out of it.

Below, the quickest summary I can manage while still being comprehensive:

[Content warning: mental illness, abuse, suicide (...ish), LOTS of violence.]

The first arc, "Failsafe," starts with Batman and Robin (Tim, in this case) in pursuit of the Penguin, who is on a killing spree. In the very first issue, Tim gets shot in the neck. Bruce has to take him to the hospital, but first he has to strip him out of his costume and put him in civilian clothes to preserve their secret identities, triggering memories of when he had to do the same to Jason's dead body. There is LITERALLY NO PURPOSE TO ANY OF THIS EXCEPT WHUMP (Tim is back in action with a fucking BAND-AID on his neck very quickly), which is how I knew this was going to be good. Beat Tim up! Make Bruce cry about Jason! I want these men to suffer! (There is also SO much to be said about Tim's own Poor Mental Health Decisions throughout the entirety of Zdarsky's run so far, but that's for a separate meta post.)

Anyway. Bruce leaves Tim in the hospital and goes to confront Penguin, who turns out to be dying of mercury poisoning. He kills himself and makes it look like Batman did it, forcing Bruce to flee. (Penguin actually faked his death and is alive elsewhere under an alias, but that's not important right now.)

In the Batcave, a massive robot called Failsafe emerges. Failsafe attacks Bruce, who usually eats killer robots for breakfast, but he can't seem to get the upper hand on this one. Duke, Cass, Steph, and Dick show up to help, but Failsafe beats them all too, while Tim gets an injured Bruce away and to the Batcave.

In the Batcave, Bruce puts on a weird purple and red Batman costume and a new personality takes over: the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh. Now, Zur has a very complicated history going back to 1958, but for the purposes of this story, all you need to know is that when he was younger, Bruce decided it would be good to hang out in a sensory deprivation chamber until his mind created a secondary personality, Zur, who is essentially Batman without Bruce. Zur is pure efficiency who does not care about anything but the mission. He created Failsafe, for one purpose: to kill Bruce if Bruce ever crossed the line and killed someone. And right now, Failsafe believes that Bruce killed Penguin.

Failsafe nearly kills Tim, which Zur is okay with writing off as an expendable soldier's death, but this causes Bruce to take control of the body back because "Tim isn't my soldier...HE'S MY SON!" (Tim Nation, why are you not ALL OVER this story? It's catnip.)

Babs calls in the JLA (SuperBat fans, you will also want to read Bruce's adoring description of Clark when he shows up), but of course Failsafe has kryptonite, which it stabs Clark with. The League dumps Clark and Bruce into the JLA jet and distracts Failsafe while Tim flies Clark and Bruce to the Fortress of Solitude. Bruce tells Tim he's a good boy and jumps out of the jet and into the ocean so that Tim and Clark will be safe from Failsafe. He's rescued by Arthur, who takes him to Atlantis to heal. THIS HAS ALL ONLY BEEN FOUR ISSUES SO FAR.

Two weeks later, Bruce wakes up to discover that Failsafe has taken over Gotham. He teleports up to the JLA Watchtower on the moon to lure Failsafe there, then blows the Watchtower up, hoping to catch a ride on one of the Javelins. But Failsafe has already destroyed them, so Bruce RIDES A BOOSTER ROCKET BACK TO EARTH, OXYGEN MASK CLAPPED OVER HIS FACE. The whole thing has some powerful Scooty-Puff Jr energy.

The only tricky part is reentry, when Bruce starts to burn up - his costume is fireproof, of course, but his chin is exposed. SO HE TAKES OFF HIS LITTLE BAT-PANTIES AND PUTS THEM OVER HIS HEAD. I swear to god this happened in a real comic book and the entire "Bruce falls off the moon and survives" sequence is utterly delectable goofy nonsense and I truly cannot recall a time I've had more fun reading a comic book.

Anyway, Bruce lands directly outside of the Fortress, BECAUSE OF COURSE HE DOES, and runs inside to find Clark and Tim. While Clark keeps Failsafe distracted, Bruce and Tim program nanobots to inject compassion into Failsafe. I SWEAR TO GOD. They zap him with the nanobots, but Failsafe pulls a high tech space gun out of the Fortress and shoots Bruce with it anyway, apparently disintegrating him. Tim falls to his knees in the snow, weeping. TIM NATION, WAKE UP, THIS RUN IS CANDY FOR YOU.

But of course Bruce isn't dead! That wasn't a killing gun, it was a "zap you into another dimension" gun!!! THAT was the compassion!

So Bruce finds himself in a dystopian alternate Gotham, and I'll be honest, I didn't love this arc ("The Bat-Man of Gotham") as much as I loved "Failsafe," but it has its moments. In this Gotham, Bruce Wayne is dead, so Regular Bruce is like "Oh boy, time to Batman this place up." Also he's plagued by hallucinations of a skeleton version of Jim Gordon who is still wearing a trench coat AND A MUSTACHE. Like I said, it has its moments.

This Gotham is controlled by Arkham, and anyone who is diagnosed as "crazy" is locked up. A new villain, Red Mask, is in charge, and Selina and a Venomed-up Harvey Dent work for him. Bruce teams up with an orphan kid (of course) named Jewel and goes after Red Mask, who turns out to be some guy named Darwin Halliday and ALSO...the Joker. Well, he's the Joker who hasn't been Jokerized yet. But one time he breathed in some chemicals that let him see into the main reality of the DCU (???) and glimpsed Regular Joker and now he wants to build an interdimensional machine to mentally connect with Regular Joker across universes which he assumes will make him insane, NATURALLY.

Bruce attacks Red Mask, who sics a Venomed-up Ghost Maker on him. Ghost Maker cuts off Bruce's right hand. Bruce cauterizes it with an electroshock machine and ties some spikes on it (SERIOUSLY) and goes after Red Mask again. Meanwhile Red Mask mentally connects with an alternate dimensional Joker...but instead of it driving Red Mask insane, he's what drives the Joker insane. Desperate to become the Joker somehow, anyhow, he jumps into the interdimensional portal, and Morally Dubious Alternate Universe Selina kicks Bruce in after him.

Meanwhile, Tim is in full "I KNOW I SAW HIM DIE BUT HE'S NOT DEAD" mode, which: bless. So he teams up with Jon Kent, which...gosh, what an astonishingly boring duo. I love Jon, I love Tim, they're perfectly nice and normal around each other, I'm falling asleep. Anyway Tim fights Toyman for a while and then makes a VERY stupid costume where the entire torso is a giant light-up R, because "I want him to see that Robin is coming to save him." GET A THERAPY, TIM.

Bruce finds himself first in the Michael Keaton Batman universe, then the Red Rain universe, BTAS, Batman Beyond (yes I know they're the same universe but I guess he goes there twice), Silver Age, Kingdom Come, Gotham by Gaslight, and more. Adam West gives him a utility belt. The Dark Knight Returns Bruce builds him a robot hand.

Finally Bruce and Red Mask reach the end of the multiverse, which is a Gotham asteroid floating in space, surrounded by giant Jokerized sharks. LUCKILY BRUCE HAS BAT-SHARK REPELLANT IN HIS ADAM WEST UTILITY BELT!!! Honestly this whole arc was worth it for that moment.

Bruce knocks Red Mask out, but now he's stuck. He has a device from Batman Beyond Bruce to get home, but it's only good for one person, and he can't leave Red Mask there to die. Of course, that's when Tim shows up in his stupid giant glowing R costume and they hug it out, thereby fulfilling but also compounding all of Tim's issues since 1989.

Anyway things are fine now, right? Sure, Bruce is hallucinating that his family is on fire, and the Zur personality is not going neatly back into the box where it's been all these years, and he still has a robot hand (Damian, hilariously, immediately announces that he wants one too), but he's FINE. He is a little bit mad at Selina, because she broke out of jail (she was in jail because she killed her fuckbuddy because he was trying to kill Bruce), and also because she didn't tell him Penguin was alive and that would have stopped Failsafe, and also because Other Selina kicked into another universe. Selina, very fairly, is like "Well I'm not responsible for Other Selinas and also maybe don't build robots to kill yourself with and not tell anyone about them???"

THEN we got Knight Terrors, the summer event in which a villain called Nightmare caused everyone to fall asleep and, uh, have nightmares. Bruce, specifically, had a nightmare that he met an eight-year-old version of himself that vomited up a man-sized bat with a gun for a head. I laughed SO HARD. Bruce also had his body borrowed by Deadman for the duration of the event, so while he endured the psychological toll of nightmares like everyone else, he also endured the physical toll of everything Deadman was doing PLUS the mental toll of being aware of what was happening in the waking world even though he couldn't control his body. As soon as the event was over, he lapsed into a coma so that his body could get some damn rest.

Okay. Now we're up to Gotham War.

(I know, I know. But for all of you who are like "How could Bruce do this???" about Gotham War...*points up* THAT'S HOW. HE IS NOT WELL.)

Bruce awakens from his coma and IMMEDIATELY decides to Fight A Crime even though Babs is like "Maybe don't?" But he can't find any crime, which is...weird. His kids confirm that Gotham's been super quiet since he's been out.

Selina hears that Bruce is awake and is like okay, time to pay the piper. She calls all of the Bats to a meeting and explains that she's the reason crime has been down. See, villains like Joker and Two-Face always have goons, right? But what if the goon supply dried up because the goons have better jobs? So Selina has trained All The Goons In Gotham to be...cat burglars. No violence, no stealing from anyone who can't afford it. More importantly, no helping Scarecrow or whoever commit mass murder.

All of the Batkids are like "Hmm...I feel uncertain about this, but it's working...I don't know what to think..." except for Jason, who thinks it's hilarious and is instantly Team Selina, and Damian, who is staunchly Team Bruce. Bruce, meanwhile, is like "No! NO! THIS IS CRIMES, AND CRIMES IS BAD!" and Selina's like "I mean, robbing from the rich is basically a victimless crime" and Bruce screams, I swear to god, "MY PARENTS WERE 'RICH'!" Inexplicable scare quotes and all. I laughed so hard.

Anyway this is the basis for Gotham War and it is endlessly hilarious to me because everyone in the Batfamily is supposed to be a genius and yet not one single character has pointed out that:

There are jobs the goons could be doing that AREN'T illegal. It's not just violent crime vs. nonviolent crime. There are in fact many other jobs! I am POSITIVE Gotham needs construction workers and hospital orderlies. (Yes, I know it's hard for people with records to get jobs. That isn't addressed.)

Being Batman is SUPER ILLEGAL.

They are all so stupid.

Selina's plan doesn't even work, because one of her thieves gets killed by a rich person defending their home, and Bruce is like "See? This is why crime is bad!" and like...pretty much snaps. He's particularly fixated on Jason, even (rhetorically) threatening to kill him, which is when the other kids jump into the fray on Jason's side, all except for Damian, who like I said is firmly Team Bruce. (This makes complete sense to me, Damian has been dealing with severe trauma and isolation pretty much nonstop since 2018 and he and Bruce have finally made a tenuous peace, so I can understand why he wouldn't want to lose that.)

Also, Vandal Savage buys Wayne Manor. It's so random and SO funny.

OKAY BATMAN #138. Bruce has kidnapped Jason and injected him with a variation on fear toxin which will be triggered whenever Jason's adrenaline spikes, the idea being that Jason is no longer capable of killing - but in practice, Jason is no longer capable of even getting up off the floor, he's so terrified. I want to be really, really clear here: Bruce is like 90% Zur here, and the only reason he goes this route and doesn't kill Jason is because the remaining 10% that's still Bruce loves Jason and is trying to help him. He's just incapable of good or humane help because Zur literally can't do feelings.

Dick knows something is up and is sneaking around Bruce's Secret Other House We've Never Heard Of to figure out what it is. Damian attacks him to protect Bruce. Tim attacks Damian so that Dick can do what he needs to do, and handcuffs Damian to a parking meter:

THERE IS SO MUCH TO UNPACK HERE!!! TIM GO TO THERAPY! DAMIAN GO TO THERAPY! EVERYONE GO TO THERAPY!!!!!

Dick figures out what Bruce did to Jason (it's on the computer, for...some reason?) and absolutely loses his shit on Bruce, beating the crap out of him, which tbh is the only thing that felt off to me in this run because frankly I don't think Dick likes Jason that much. BUT WHATEVER.

Tim pulls Dick off of Bruce. Bruce leaves them both tangled in a net and flees as the cops approach. Zur's like "Good, fuck 'em" in Bruce's head, because the cops will expose Dick, Tim, and Damian's secret identities and Bruce will be free of the dead weight of a family, but the little bit of Bruce still in there throws Dick a batarang so he can free them all in time.

Then Bruce leaves. Damian is devastated.

I WILL NEVER RECOVER FROM THIS PAGE. Damian really thought he could have Bruce's love and loyalty if he turned on everyone else! Tim is going to be a therapy dog to a Wayne even if he has to settle for the one he doesn't like! That unresisting, blank hug made me SCREAM when I turned the page. Incredible. (Also the art fucking S L A P S, god bless you Jorge Jimenez.)

ALSO it turns out that Selina's second in command has been Vandal Savage's daughter Scandal Savage the whole time and they are turning Selina's cat burglar army into their own personal army WHOOPS. (This also feels very OOC for Scandal but at this point I trust Zdarsky with my life so let's see where things go.)

SO THAT'S WHAT'S GOING ON IN GOTHAM WAR. TL;DR:

Bruce is unhinged because he nearly died like 19 times in a week and it unlocked the smaller, meaner purple Batman that lives inside him.

Selina is unaware that you can get money legally.

Tim is going to have a nervous breakdown if he can't fix someone, ANYONE.

Damian needs a hug but ideally from someone he actually likes this time.

Jason is so scared.

THE END.

[subway-tolkien]

Okay, this is 1600 words of (positive!) meta regarding the OFMD finale. Included is character analysis and a treatise on why a certain trope people keep throwing around does not apply here.

This is of course just my take, and I'm sure people will disagree, but I needed to get this out. Apologies if it comes off disjointed, I've had like no sleep.

Spoilers within, obviously. You have been warned. Heed the tags. I didn't tag any characters because I consider it a spoiler, but you know who this is about.

Listen. Listen.

Let me start off by saying I have been where you are. I’ve had beloved characters die, either because it was important to the narrative or for shock value. I’ve been there, so I’m not coming at this without empathy. I’m not an Izzy hater. I loved him as a character. I’m truly sad to see him go.

But from what I’m seeing around Twitter and tumblr, some of you do not understand the role of an antagonist in a story.

Izzy was always meant to die. The moment he said, in the first season, “the only retirement we get is death,” I knew he was meant to die in the end. The foreshadowing ran through both seasons. Izzy was the true antagonist of S1. He was there to keep Blackbeard tethered when he started pulling away, and yet he also set the plot in motion. He inadvertently introduced Blackbeard to the person who let him be just Ed. He put Ed on his own path to redemption without even knowing it.

S1 ended with Izzy getting what he wanted as Ed lost everything he had. S2 was about Izzy coming to terms with the fact that he’d gone too far, he’d turned Ed into a monster. It wasn’t what he wanted. He wanted Blackbeard back, just like old times. Instead, he got the Kraken, and it was more than he bargained for.

Especially after it cost him his leg and he realized how far gone Ed really was. The conversation that ended with Izzy’s half-assed suicide attempt was the final blow to Izzy—Ed really didn’t seem to care anymore. Where Izzy wanted him to stop giving a shit about his silly boyfriend, he instead got a Blackbeard who didn’t care about anything, and he was apparently now included in that category.

(I said half-assed suicide attempt because Izzy wasn’t meant to die then, THAT would have been an empty, pointless death. It wouldn’t have taught Ed anything—in fact, all it did was make him more self-destructive, which was Izzy’s purpose to the narrative, but not his endgame. That Ed thought Izzy killed himself pushed Ed to the brink. Ed wanted to die and take every scrap of Blackbeard with him. Had Izzy successfully killed himself, Ed and the Revenge would be at the bottom of the ocean.

It wasn’t until the crew left Izzy the unicorn leg that he realized the power of compassion, the incredible act of grace from a crew that suffered so much from Izzy’s own machinations and didn't need to forgive him. It moved him to tears, and it moved him to accept that maybe it wasn’t such a bad idea to let people in, to let himself be cared for. It was a foreign concept and something Izzy likely hadn’t experienced since losing his family (I fully expect a shit ton of fanfic of Izzy’s life before piracy).

Israel Hands found the capacity to let love all the way in and by god, did he pursue it.

But, again, Izzy was always meant to die, and I’m glad they stuck to the narrative they set out with instead of placating fandom and letting our influence dictate how they told this story That’s never good, trust me. Fandom should not influence a creator’s decisions regarding their own characters. It rarely if ever ends well.

[Stares in Voltron S8]

And I see a lot of people out here throwing the “bury your gays” phrase around—I beg you, please look up the definition of the trope. Izzy didn’t die because he was queer, he didn’t die because of his disability. He wasn’t one half of the only queer couple in the show fridged for shock value. He wasn’t killed off due to pressure from conservative viewers. He wasn’t the only queer, disabled character.

They didn’t kill off Lucius, or Jackie, or Wee John. Would you be as outraged if it was any of them?

Killing Eve is bury your gays. Supernatural is bury your gays. Pretty much any film, book, TV show, whatever, where a queer character dies because they’re queer, of AIDs, to further the narrative for a straight person, etc—that is burying your gays.

Izzy’s death was none of those things. Izzy’s death had meaning.

Izzy’s death freed Ed from the Blackbeard persona. It finally forced Izzy to say the things he couldn’t say until he realized it was his last chance. Izzy was also tired. I honestly think he stuck it out for Ed’s sake, because he was afraid to let Blackbeard go without making sure Ed would be ok.

He loved the idea of Blackbeard, but over time, he learned to love Ed. He finally understood what Ed tried to tell him the whole time.

“Fuck off, you twat. You’re surrounded by family.”

You’re safe. You’re loved. You don’t need me anymore. You don’t need to be reminded of who you’re capable of being, you need the people who will guide you to who you will become, and I’m not one of them.

I know a lot of Izzy fans are stung by his death, some of you are deeply upset. I get that. Like I said, I’ve been there. Sirius’s death made me throw that fucking book across the room. That Fucking Woman™ killed off my entire OTP, purely for shock value and, imho, a direct response to shippers. Trust me, I have felt betrayed by a creator for their decisions.

But I need you to understand that no, this was not a personal attack, this was not malicious, this was not “bury your gays." A show that celebrates queerness and diversity is not suddenly homophobic and ableist because your favorite character died and happened to be both of those things. But when the majority of your cast of characters is different in some way, and they’re in a show about 18th century pirates, you have to accept that one of them could, in fact, die. “Anyone Can Die” is also a trope and the more accurate one to describe E8.

If only being queer and disabled made you invincible.

Spoiler alert: it doesn’t.

And no, I’m not an Izzy hater. I loved him, I loved him as an antagonist, and I loved his redemption arc. He was fascinating and Con put his whole O’Nussy into that part. I’m sorry to see him go, but as a mystery writer who often has to kill off beloved characters, I understand that he served the purpose he had from the beginning.

I swear, if some of you had your way, there’d be no conflict at all in any form of media. This what a steady diet of nothing but fanfic gets you. This is not a fluffy one-shot with magical healing dick and a happy ending where everyone sails off into the sunset. If that’s what you wanted, what you headcanoned, you did this to yourself. It’s not David et al’s fault that we took that character and babygirled him. That’s the risk we take when we decide to love a specific character, when we take a genuinely terrible person (in S1) and woobify him.

So, please stop harassing and attacking David, Alex, et al. David did not and should not change his story to placate us. The fact he went ahead with it despite the backlash I’m sure he expected makes me respect him as a creator even more.

Anyway, I’m going to revel that we have three (!) queer relationships with happy endings where one or both didn’t immediately die (again, the actual definition of “bury your gays”) and that we got at least two seasons of a little show that celebrated individualism, diversity, queerness, compassion, and love.

In the end, it all came down to love.

“There he is.”

Goodbye, Blackbeard.

Hello, Ed.

[ineffable-suffering]

INEFFABLE META MASTERPOST

Because I'm slowly losing count and need to organize. So, here's all my self-written metas or ones that I reblogged with my own added theories and commentary! In rainbow colours, naturally.

1 – Aziraphale, I love you. But you lied. And here's why. My most lengthy and proudest meta about the Final Fifteen and why I think Aziraphale lied on purpose. (Also: The absolute darling @esthermitchell-author bravely fought their way through it and wrote up some more interesting points and different takes on what I came up with. If you want to go down a S2 rabbit hole with us, go read it here.)

2 – Why Aziraphale is an unreliable narrator (links below) A three-part meta in which I try to analyse and explain that all of the minisodes in Season 2 are not objective narrations but actually Aziraphale's memories.

Part 1: The Story of Job

Part 2: The Story of wee Morag

Part 3: The Story of the Magic Show in 1941

3 – The Jane Austen Ball and why it was never about Nina and Maggie A meta in which I go into unnecessarily great detail about how the Whickber Street Meeting Cotillion Ball was meant to be Aziraphale's confession to Crowley.

4 – Crowley & Aziraphale were never free (reblog) A reblog of @baggvinshield's post in which I explain why miscommunication is the single biggest ineffable enemy in Season 2.

5 – In Defense of Aziraphale (double reblog) A double try at explaining why I think Aziraphale's POV in the Final Fifteen is just as horrible as Crowley's and why I don't think him "choosing" to go back to Heaven was the only point of his character journey.

6 – The Art of Miscommunication: Ineffable Edition A meta in which i once again explain why miscommunication is the single biggest ineffable enemy in Season 2.

7– Season 2 Bookshop Shot Meta A meta where I briefly loose my mind because of a single bookshop frame in Season 2.

8 – What if it wasn't Aziraphale and Crowley who performed the 25 Lazarii miracle? A mini-meta in which I propose the theory that Jimbriel helped with the miracle to hide himself away from Heaven & Hell.

9 – Things in Good Omens Season 2 I still find weird (reblog) A reblog of @ok-sims and many other great OPs' thoughts on the weird loose strings in Season 2 and what unanswered questions I still have myself.

10 – The Deleted Bookshop Scene (reblog) A reblog of @skirtdyke's video and @i-only-ever-asked-questions' smart thoughts on it, with my own overly-excited 'what that could have meant for the "It's too late" line'-theroy.

11 – The Bentley Handle Easter Egg A meta I can proudly say has been liked by none other than Mr. Neil Gaiman himself about Crowley's Bentley handle that might have existed before the Bentley ever did.

12 – The F*cking Eccles Cakes A meta where I briefly loose my mind because of a pastry. (Addendum: People said very smart things in the comments of the post!)

14 – Re: "You go too fast for me, Crowley" A meta in which I make myself sad by connecting that infamous line to Aziraphale assuming Crowley wanted the Holy Water as a suicide pill.

13 – Trauma-Dumping on your plants: The Anthony J. Crowley Chronicles A meta on why Crowley treats his plants the way that he does.

14 – Demonic Mental Health Awareness Post In which I talk about why I want to get Crowley a therapy voucher.

15 – The Curious Incident of The Flaming Sword in Good Omens A meta on why the Flaming Sword has no deeper meaning. Or does it? (Updated: here's a reblog from @queerfables who did a wonderfully exellent job at calmly explaining all the swordy questions I was yelling about! Consider this meta solved.)

16 – Ceci n'est pas une plume A meta in which I'm a bit of a nerd for language and also explain why learning French and magic the human way says so much about Aziraphale as a character.

17 – The meaning of "I forgive you" A meta in which I explain what both "I forgive you"s mean and why Aziraphale will always fight for what is right until he wins. Also, the lovely @sharksbeerr translated it to Chinese on Weibo!

18 – Memory, or the lack thereof, in Season 2 A little reblog on how memory is a big and unresolved, leaky-bucket theme in Season 2.

19 – „It‘s always too late.“ (ft. Crowley‘s watch)

A short meta about that lines from Season 2 that won‘t leave my brain (and also Crowley‘s mysterious watch).

Addendum:

The one non-spoiler-y ask I could come up with about S2 that was actually answered by Neil, yay!

Also, this wholesome little post I added to that Mr. Gaiman also reblogged. :‘)

*** This is a work in progress and will get updated every time I post a new meta! ***

[wandixx]

Greeting comrades,

I’m Wandixx, a history enthusiast, baby writer and budding artist. Grab your tea/coffee/juice or whatever else beverage you favor and let’s go!

I’m part of the DPxDC fandom so my fics are from here. And this list exists so we all can find anything on this blog, welcome!

Here is my AO3:

My finished fics/prompt fills:

“Blood Blossom”:

Desperate times require desperate solutions. When, after escaping GIW, Danny gets trapped by the Justice League, he has only one way to get out of it. Eating a Blood Blossom. (this one includes a sad and happy ending!)

“Contingencies”:

Danny lives with Bats and it all seems to go pretty well. Until they find his contingency plans, including ones against himself, that were just over glorified suicide to-do list. How the hell are they supposed to handle that (that’s a chunky boi, over 20k)

“Ghost of fries and hero of cookies”

Duke wasn't expecting to wake up from his quick rooftop nap to some meta kid with fries. He also wasn't expecting kid to stay Or Danny asked Dani to stay safe while she was in Gotham. Where would she be safer than under the wing of a local hero? And he looked like he needed a bad day combo anyway. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, art AO3 link

“Reverse summoning”:

It’s always DC characters summoning Danny. How about we do this another way around? Danny was desperate for a mentor and help (and some cold medicine). How- What- Why is Wonder Woman standing in his bedroom? 

“Unknown, the Wandering Hero”:

Unknown was who Justice League called the friendly anonymous hero, who kept helping them with ghosts. Only one with powers working on them. It just turns out, they were much younger than everyone expected. Danny went through a lot lately and the less people knew who he was, the less likely he was to return to the operating table.

Stuff that I shared snippets of:

"Danny and Wally are chaos incarnate"

"Dani's dress-up game and Batman's rouge gallery" (also known as "serious chaos one-shot snippet")

"GIW made a lot of mistakes and the biggest one was going against Young Justice" part 1

"Danny, the Young Justice member" random ideas part 1, part 2

The stuff I have somewhere on paper and would love to share if asked.

Make yourself at home, and I hope you’ll like it here!

[donnatroyyyy]

A (very long) list of my (semi) unpopular DC opinions

The Batfam shouldn’t work together as a whole big group as vigilantes. Whenever that does happen it ends up being character suicide for AT LEAST two of them and also usually ends up minimizing all of them to one of the skills/traits they’re good at (or the archetypes the writer wants them to be). The only exception to this is if it’s a long arc covering an actual catastrophe where each issue covers a duo or trio within the big group. Otherwise they should stick to no more than 4 ppl at a time in a team up. Also, this obviously doesn’t apply to them as civilians, they’re literally family obviously they’re gonna hang out as a group.

The Teen Titans (2003) is the best writing but (one of the) worst teams. On the other hand the original Teen Titans run and NTT run are the best teams (imo) but have either really bad or really mediocre writing. We as a society need an OG TT or NTT run written well.

Roy struggling with a heroin addiction has so many more layers and nuances to it than struggling with alcohol because as a non-meta hero most of his fights were against something drug-related. As opposed to alcohol which is now seen as a normal thing for soldiers/heroes/warriors to fall on as a crutch, this medium uses alcohol addiction with every other character. Roy’s addiction to heroin would literally be an opposition to all that he’s ever stood and fought for, all that his family and friends ever fought and stood for, and way more interesting because of that.

Garth (like Donna) is one of the most powerful and interesting characters but is never given enough panel time. However, unlike Donna, writers would rather write him out of the teen titans before they actually write a good interpretation of him. And I don’t know why but his role in the Aquafam too has been dwindling with time.

Garth’s openness about his inferiority complex and his inferiority complex in general need more panel time, it’s one of the most interesting thing to come out of the OG TT run

This is a complicated take because it’s literally two opposites in one take, but the main difference in characters as seen in old comics vs. now is two things. One, the writing of characters was much better, much more realistic, and much more nuanced in old comics. Two, when there is a well-written character in modern comics its usually a more show not tell character so everything is shown to us through actions and stuff rather than straight up words or them psychoanalyzing themselves in their speech bubbles and that just doesn’t work with modern audiences because media literacy is a dying art. Also, there’s the variable of the influence of fanon over how characters are written in comics but that’s a whole other post.

Roy and Donna are literally THE OTP like I don’t even want to hear it, they’re literally DC’s percabeth.

Every single Teen Titan had an inferiority complex, some were just easier to see.

Selina and Bruce and Talia and Bruce are two very different relationships that can’t be compared. Also they will always live side by side till the end of comics, this love triangle was one meant to last, and it will.

Jason Todd as we know him right now should get the YJ Roy Harper treatment, we need to find out that he’s a clone and the real JT is somewhere in Africa working for UNICEF or something, that’s the only way to fix his character.

Also, ignoring the top one, if DC doesn’t want to commit to that because they’re cowards, they should at least not make him a part of the Batfam yet, it’s too soon for either side.

Kara Zor El is the perfect character to be a white lantern, her arc literally matches up perfectly with each of the rings, and she’d wield it incredibly

Kyle Rayner is top 3 GLs

In my opinion, Diana is best written when the most important thing to her in the world is the world itself. Like, usually I hate the whole “hero would sacrifice u, villain would sacrifice the world” thing cuz it mostly doesn’t really apply, but to her it absolutely does. Diana would sacrifice the closest person to her for the world in an instant if it was for the sake of the world. And this isn’t like an angst thing because they all know it and are all ok with it.

Also, Diana is one of the most if not the most powerful characters in all of DC, if DC did a Deadpool kills the marvel universe kind of thing they should totally use her because she is sooo powerful. (Afterthought: that’s why I hate most of her appearances in anything JL because they underpower her soooo bad)

I say this as a batfamily Stan, the batfamily is the worst family in all of DC and sadly the one that gets the most attention.

The OG TT are the epitome of superheroes in the sense that each and every one of them defines every part of a superhero spectacularly and always has.

Kory needs an arc where she leaves everyone and everything for a while because as of right now, not only do the writers only ever see her in relation to others, but she sees herself that way. She needs an arc where she finds herself in relation to herself, who SHE is. Away from the love triangle, and the titans, and the Titans, etc.

Babs is a better character outside of the love triangle than she is when she’s in it. (Also a better character as Oracle but that only really unpopular amongst writers)

Every single woman character in DC is written in relation to the men in the comics, even WW. The only exception is Oracle, not Babs, but Oracle, which is actually so twisted considering that the creation of Oracle as a character came hand in hand with an event that literally inspired the cloning of the phrase “fridging”

BOP is one of the best teams

Harley Quinn shouldn’t be a hero yet, she was abused for over a decade, we need to see more of her struggle to undo all of the manipulation and heal from the abuse as well as try to undo all the damage she’s done. The Animated Series is the best version of her arc but it’s still not good either.

We as a fandom(s) need to normalize the ability to consume and enjoy things we don’t necessarily agree with. For example, as I’ve stated before multiple times, I absolutely hate any kind of abusive Bruce, however, I still read those long posts about it and I still read fics where dck punches him cuz he’s an abusive asshole, it’s okay to consume media that you don’t necessarily agree with. And same with fanon versions of characters, I HATE coffee-addict Tim, I’ve still enjoyed hundreds of fics with him in them though.

Damian Wayne is the most compassionate member of the batfam and one of the Keats likely ones to willingly kill

Blue devil and kid devil have arguably the most interesting story and tragedy in all of DC and the only reason they’re not given a lot of attention is because their tragedies have to do with something we don’t like to see: the wrongdoings and flaws of heroes, especially ones we like.

Speed Saunders should’ve continued as a character

Hal Jordan should’ve stayed evil for a while, the end of the parallax arc sucks and is a stupid cop out because they weren’t ready for a fully new GL. I don’t think he should’ve stayed the villain forever, but maybe for a few years, especially if that meant they would’ve ended the arc better.

Mera is more powerful than Arthur, always has been and always will be.

Wally West does see Barry Allen as a father figure and vice versa, it’s okay to see someone as a parental figure when you still have parents, especially when your parents are (canonically) borderline emotionally abusive and/or neglectful.

Any iteration of ANY hero being abusive is the worst writing ever because what the actual fuck, I’m sorry, but what happened to the whole they’re literally fucking heroes part??

There are so many characters that deserve solo series (or even mini series) but don’t get them because all the series are already being taken up by bigger characters (looking at you batfam)

So many characters get mischaracterized for the sake of other character’s stories (again, looking at you batfam)

Anyone who thinks Superman is boring either doesn’t understand him as a character or hasn’t read enough stuff with him in it (I recommend All-Star Superman and/or American Alien)

Anyone who relates to the Joker needs to turn themselves in at the nearest police station. (Unless it’s LEGO Joker, we like him)

The LEGO Batman movie is unironically some of the best DC media to ever exist

Atlantis and Paradise Island should be allies (especially once Diana, Arthur, and Mera come into the picture), I don’t know why they’re not

Lex Luthor is one of the most despicable villains because he’s a realistic villain, which is much scarier

Kon should be the next Superman

Connor Hawke should’ve stayed Tim’s age and Tim’s friend, it makes the most sense timeline-wise plus I think their dynamic was super cute.

Comic writers not making Roy openly refer to Ollie as his dad even though they’ve been father and son since they’ve debuted basically is actually so crazy to me

These next few are about Talia Al-Ghul because I love that woman:

Talia Al-Ghul Pre-Morrison was one of the best and most interesting characters in all of DC and that isn’t just my opinion, she was really popular amongst fans and writers for that exact reason

However, Morrison’s damage to her is near irreparable

BUT, if DC did want to repair it, I genuinely believe she’d be the best character they’d have character-wise and it would probably pull in a bunch of new fans

But even if they don’t, Talia Al-Ghul is one of the most important characters in all of DC and comics in general because she’s literally the documented history of WOC in media (especially Arab and Asian women) as well as their relation to white men in media. Her character and how it changes is directly tied to mainstream views on WOC at the time.

Talia Al-Ghul is literally of “I Bet On Losing Dogs” by Mitski, personified

Dinah Lance is the perfect example of a complex character done right and interpreted wrong/not interpreted enough.

If anyone should be the therapist within the hero community it should be J’onn or Red tornado, those are the two that make the most sense.

Helena Bertinelli is more important to the batfam than Jason Todd is.

Cassandra Cain shouldn’t be portrayed as mute anymore, it doesn’t make sense for her character or her arc.

The worst thing to happen to Poison Ivy’s character is Harley Quinn.

Mera is made to be a mother, whether to her own kids (Garth included) or as a mother figure to other kids.

On the other hand, Stephanie Brown wasn’t ready and doesn’t/didn’t want to be a mother, she gave up her baby willingly and will almost 100% not go out to look for her.

Lady Shiva’s appearances 99% of the time are out of character for her, the whole “training with Shiva” thing is also OOC for her, and Cass even existing is OOC for her. The reason that this continues though is because she’s been transformed from an actual character into a character tool.

Stephanie Brown and Cassanadra Cain are a good duo and anyone who hates on one but likes the other misunderstood both of their characters.

Dick hating Jason for what he did to Tim IS in character of him, and, in my opinion, correct of him

The rise in people who don’t like heroes’s pacifism is concerning. People calling Bruce a bad person because he doesn’t kill is concerning. People viewing Clark as boring because he’s a good person is concerning. People liking straight up villains more than they do heroes is concerning.

Anyone who recommends mister miracle should also tell them about the TW in the first few pages

Kingdom come isn’t that good, especially to non-Christians

Big Barda needs her own run. We need a Bug Barda run that covers everything from her origins to where she is now, and we need it done by a female writer who’s good at complex and heavy stories

Some of the most hated comic writers are some of the best at what they do

Chuck Dixon is just as much a blessing to any character he writes as he is a curse

Marvel’s comic writers and artists 80% of the town do a better job with their characters and their arcs than DC writers and artists.

DC should have sensitivity readers because the amount of racism in these comics is insane

It’s okay to put down a comic/run because you don’t like the art, it’s your time no one’s gonna judge you

Alex Ross’s art is actually nice, people just like hating

The Trinity should never be shipped with one another

Steve isn’t important to Diana at all, he’s barely in any of her comics actually, he’s less important to her (or at least to her character) than fucking swamp thing

Batfam is better smaller

It’s better to read the first appearances of characters, it helps you understand them better.

Lois Lane is the DC version of Susan Storm, aka the blueprint of women in that company’s comics, but also one of the most forgotten women in that company’s comics

Comics aren’t going to go anywhere arcwise for the characters long term, that’s the whole point. Batman will always have a robin. Love triangles will always be love triangles. They will all always stay young.

Old campy comics were better than modern comics.

Cheshire isn’t a redeemable character and shouldn’t be one. Women in comics should be allowed to be straight up villains and stay that way.

Cheshire having Lian is OOC. Cheshire leaving Lian is a racist trope.

Asian and Arabs are treated horribly by DC.

The New 52 is actually a good place to start for new readers, it was a good idea, but it should’ve just been an alternate universe (like mcu is to 616 kind of) or something (and it should’ve been down with the supervision of anyone who isn’t Dan didio)

DC has some of the best world building in the history of modern day media/literature especially considering how many facets of this world there were/are to build

Team rosters that are constantly changing are better than stationary ones unless they change too much/too fast

Canon is hypocritical 90% of the time, most times canon clashes and crashes and doesn’t make sense, so don’t worry about it, read a comic, count what you want to be canon as canon, throw the rest into to the “never existed” pile

I’m sorry to tell you guys this, but it isn’t an opinion, it’s an unpopular canon fact, one that even I don’t like: Dick Grayson likes pineapple one pizza

Something that I hate that been on the rise a lot lately is the fact that the fandom is so okay with character being sexualized just because they like how the characters look, I feel like we should keep our stances on this as they are with all over-sexualized characters.

Villains of the week are actually so fun, even more then the big villains sometimes.

JSA needs a comeback please and thank you (I’m begging atp)

Cassandra Cain shouldn’t be Orphan, ever, it makes no sense for her to take the name of her abused. The same way it doesn’t make sense for Jason to become red hood.

Complex characters who are dumbed down once can be dumbed down and mischaracterized every time after that, and this has been done A LOT.

The YJ shows is very much overhyped

The fact that DC overpowers their characters makes them more interesting, not less

Selina was right and in character when she left Bruce at the alter. She was not right and in character when she hid Helena from him, she wouldn’t do that.

Bruce Wayne is more fun to read when he has a pipe and fun colored robes, please give him back his pipe and his fun colored robes.

[bbcphile]

Mysterious Lotus Casebook and Complex PTSD Representations: Part I

One of my favorite things about Mysterious Lotus Casebook is how surprisingly nuanced and unusual its portrayal of complex PTSD is. So many shows either introduce character trauma to make the character Sad and Brooding, Angry and Violent (if they’re a villain) or Hesitant to Start a Relationship (if it’s a romance), and that’s usually as in-depth as it gets. If they address the unique after effects of child abuse that lead to complex PTSD at all, it’s usually either explain why a character is a homicidal monster (which is all sorts of problematic) or it’s limited to a single phobia, which can be overcome by the Power of Love, or it’s just something that crops up occasionally for Plot and then forgotten about the rest of the time. 

Mysterious Lotus Casebook gives us two deeply traumatized characters–Li Lianhua and Di Feisheng–who each have clear symptoms of complex PTSD, and yet, their cPTSD manifests completely differently because of the types of traumas that caused it and their relationships to the people causing the traumas. And their manifestations of cPTSD affect just about every level of their being, including their sense of self, their decision-making, and their relationships with others, and it includes some of the incredibly important manifestations of cPTSD that are almost never shown in media while avoiding the most insulting stereotypes! 

PTSD vs cPTSD

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is an anxiety disorder caused by experiencing a single (or short lived) traumatic event (an accident, assault, medical emergency, fighting in a war, etc), where the symptoms last for longer than a month. Symptoms include things like reexperiencing the event (flashbacks), avoidance (of things related to the event), changes in mood (depression, anger, fear, etc), and issues with emotional regulation (hypervigilance–being constantly on the lookout for threats–irritability/angry outbursts, etc.).

Complex PTSD happens if someone has experienced long term, chronic/repeated trauma that induces hopelessness and no chance of escape (survivors of extended child abuse, human trafficking, domestic violence, prisoners of war, slavery, etc.). It’s also often interpersonal in ways a car crash or medical emergency is not, and is particularly linked with chronic trauma during childhood: chronic stress hormones introduce literal physical changes in a growing brain, particularly the amygdala (which processes fear), hippocampus (which is responsible for learning/memory), and the prefrontal cortex (which is responsible for executive function), so it can affect every aspect of life and also affect a child’s progression through developmental stages. In addition to these physical changes to the brain, the prolonged trauma–particularly the helplessness–distorts a child’s sense of self, the perpetrator, and the world in ways that alter their decision making, their memory, and their future relationships. 

For instance, whereas a traumatic event that caused PTSD might make you depressed or not trust the person who harmed you (or to fear driving), the trauma from cPTSD might make you suicidal, blame yourself for your victimization, decide to isolate to avoid interpersonal relationships to keep from getting hurt, or become obsessed with never being harmed again.

Basically, cPTSD has the core symptoms from PTSD with some extra challenges, including issues with emotional regulation, self-concept, interruptions in consciousness, difficulties with relationships, perceptions of the perpetrator, and systems of meaning.

DFS and LLH: CPTSD Symptoms

There’s so much more to say about this than I can cover in this superficial introduction, so this will be the first of a series of metas; I’m hoping to go into more depth about some of these categories in future posts (the DFS and emotional regulation/violence one is already drafted, so stay tuned). 

Difficulties with Relationships (problems with trust, communication, missing red flags): Both DFS and LLH have a history of trusting the wrong people and not trusting the right people, both in the past and in the present of the show: in the past, LLH missed the fact that SGD hated him and DFS missed the fact that JLQ was obsessed with him, and as a result, both sects were destroyed, many people died, and the two almost destroyed each other. If they had communicated with each other instead of fighting at the donghai battle, they might have realized they were being set up and could have worked together, but their difficulties with trust after perceived betrayal made that impossible for them. They both have a history of overlooking red flags in the present–DFS in particular, keeping the red-flag-personified-JLQ around despite her history of poisoning people, including himself–and they both tend to struggle with relationships in the present: LLH runs away from and/or drugs the people who care about him, and DFS sends endless mixed messages by not telling Li Lianhua most of his plans to help him. 

Self-Concept (Self-hatred and self-fragmentation): Li Lianhua is basically the poster child for having a negative self concept: he has an overdeveloped sense of self-blame and responsibility, even believing he deserves to die for leading his men to their deaths, and once he learns he was manipulated and SGD was behind it all, he seems to think it’s his own fault that he was manipulated, lied to, and abused. His self-loathing is so extreme that he imagines his earlier self, Li Xiangyi, to have died, and tries as much as possible to be nothing like that earlier persona. His repeated insistence that Li Xiangyi and Li Lianhua are NOT the same person is reminiscent of the fragmentary sense of self that comes with more extreme trauma, like Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) or Other-Specified Dissociative Disorder (OSDD), where traumatic experiences are so painful that people form different alters, or differentiated self-states, that can have different names and skills and memories and identities. 

Di Feisheng doesn’t have the self-hatred or guilt that LLH does, and it seems like he tries to skip over questions of self worth, blame, or hatred by focusing exclusively on staying true to his code of ethics he’s developed for himself and focusing on gaining the strength necessary to fight for his freedom from mind control and the Di Fortress. But even though he’s kept his Di name, kept his goals the same since escaping Di Fortress, and hasn’t tried to separate himself from his trauma the way LLH did with LXY, he’s even more willing than LLH to take on different identities: it’s literally one of his martial arts skills. The Bone Constriction Skill lets him become someone else for a time, whether that’s a child or Shi Hun. It fits well with his willingness to be whoever he needs to be to accomplish his goals: he’s perfectly willing to be seen as a heartless villain if it lets him protect LLH, and he’s willing to flirt with and pretend to be jealous of JLQ to get information from her, and he’s willing to be LLH’s a-Fei, both with and without his memories.

Interruptions in Consciousness (Amnesia and nightmares for Everyone): LLH and DFS both have nightmares and flashbacks/memories of traumatic events, and as mentioned above, both have interesting hints of having fragmented/fluid senses of self. They both also dissociate, or separate themselves from the present when dealing with traumatic things:  LLH spaces out and gets stuck in his past memories about SGD when talking to FDB after burying SGD, and DFS dissociates from physical pain so as not to make noise both after he’s been stabbed and poisoned with Wuxin Huai and again when JLQ is torturing him in her water dungeon.

They both also have dissociative amnesia that takes away trauma memories, although one is from a poisonous incense plus the magic of qi macgyvering:  LLH forgot the existence of his older brother who died in front of him, and DFS as a-Fei had just about all of his memories (except a few of killing as a child) taken away. Amnesia is a huge part of cPTSD, because it’s the brain’s way of trying to protect you from truths that you might not survive. It can manifest as blocking out one single traumatic event, a bunch of thematically or temporally linked traumatic events, a skill set related to the trauma, or, in the case of something like DID or OSDD, just about everything. It’s endlessly fascinating to me that the show gives us one example of definite traumatic amnesia through LLH, and then seems to almost transform the experience of having DID and being a new part and finding yourself with a new name and very little else into an exaggerated fantasy setting (interestingly, people often report experiencing debilitating headaches when they try to regain memories behind the amnesia barrier). I doubt this is what they were actually going for, since DID is almost universally portrayed incorrectly and offensively in media (one of the alters is almost always portrayed as a serial killer, but that’s a rant for another day), but the different names and the presence of amnesia with LLH made it a fascinating enough parallel that I had to mention it.

 Problems with Emotional Regulation (Lashing in vs. lashing out): Li Xiangyi and Di Feisheng are polar opposites when it comes to struggles with emotional regulation: whereas LXY turns his anger inward, directing it all toward self-hate in what’s often called a “toxic shame spiral,” both after the donghai battle and after he finds out about SGD’s role in his shifu’s death, DFS lashes out physically at those who have harmed him, usually via choking people, although he is usually exerting an impressive amount of control over his emotions and strength. To put in perspective just how different their emotional strategies are and how much effort DFS puts into emotional regulation, compare how much more calm he is than LLH during any revelation of past betrayal or painful information, any scene where they confront the people who have abused them, or any scene where they learn they’ve been wrong about something big; LLH is most likely having an emotional flashback (re-experiencing the emotions from the earlier traumas) and DFS is probably compartmentalizing them or dissociating from them to process later/never so he can stay semi-functional and not show a potential opponent a weak spot. 

NOTE: This means that DFS is loooong overdue for a very dramatic breakdown when it eventually all catches up to him and he can’t distract himself from it anymore.

Perceptions of Perpetrators: In this way only, Di Feisheng has one advantage: he knows the head of Di Fortress is a cruel, abusive tyrant. While he clearly still fears him, even as a physically strong adult (he has nightmares, flashbacks, and dedicates his life to being free from him, which means he still to some extent feels young, small, and helpless when he thinks of him), DFS knows that he hates him and wants to be free of him. This is probably part of why he’s spared some of the self-hatred LLH experiences: he knows he didn’t deserve the abuse because seeing it happen to other children means he knows the abuse wasn’t a personal reflection on him. It does, however, motivate him to want to be stronger and invulnerable so as to never be helpless again, and that obsession is what drives him to have a single-minded focus on reaching the pinnacle of the jianghu.  

It’s so much more complicated for Li Lianhua (and for a more detailed analysis, check out this meta): the childhood perpetrators were manifold–a slew of bandits, whichever children and adults on the street would abuse him for existing and being poor–it probably felt like life itself was to blame. It’s no wonder that when his shifu and shiniang took him in, they were the ultimate rescuers whom he hero-worshipped, so when he felt he made a mistake and his life fell apart, he blamed himself: at least there would be someone to blame that way and something he could do about it (try to kill his past self and hate everything about him). It’s also very telling that LLH doesn’t blame JLQ or YBQ all that much when he learns they poisoned him, and that he’s more angry that SGD murdered their shifu than he is that SGD set him up, hated him, and was the real mastermind behind everything he had blamed himself for; he struggles to stay angry at people who harm him, and would rather blame and hate himself for being tricked than hate the person who tricked him. So, whereas DFS tries to destroy the people who abused him, LLH tries to destroy himself.

If you read this far, thanks! I’m probably going to be posting the DFS and emotional regulation/violence against perpetrator meta next, because it’s drafted, but if there are any of these you desperately want me to talk about more sooner rather than later, let me know! :D 

[1moremilgram-enjoyer]

is everyone in milgram just dead

Okay I'm making this post because while I'm not sure how much I believe this, it's a possibility that's been eating at my head for a while, so I gotta share it somewhere even if it's not the most solid theory in the world.

So anyways, hello members of the jury! Today I want to discuss the weirdly recurring theme of the prisoners in Milgram possibly being dead, and Milgram being some sort of afterlife thing. Given the fact it clearly has some supernatural elements, it certainly isn't impossible. So let's get into it!

CW Death, murder and suicide, abortion, child abuse, drowning, cults and indoctrination, waterboarding, gang violence

Yuno and the Allegations

The biggest hint that at least some of the prisoners might be dead is the in Yuno's second VD, Absolute Zero.

Yuno: Oh! Also, that reminds me, there was one thing I'm curious about. Es: What? Go ahead and say it. Y: Am I…really alive? E: That's…what do you…. Y: Hm…if you don't know, then it's fine. E: Yuno…. Y: Hey, it's time, right? E: Y-yes. Prisoner number 2, Yuno. Sing your sins.

Weird thing to say, really. So, presumably, she has some reason to believe she might be dead. Which is especially worrying because Yuno is one of the most intelligent and perceptive prisoners in Milgram, and might even have higher awareness of some of the more supernatural/meta elements of the series, as seen by images from both her cover songs appearing in Umbilical and Tear Drop.

All this is to say, if Yuno has reason to believe she might be dead, we have reason to believe so as well.

There are two points of Yuno's story were I feel she could have died. One is during her abortion, given a question from Trial 2.

(T2) Q20: Did you hate the person you killed?

Y: It was too much of a pain to for me to think about anything.

So her abortion was painful, which likely means it wasn't done in a hospital, as professional abortions typically don't cause too much pain in the moment (source), even if they can cause cramping or discomfort in the recovery period. If it wasn't done professionally, and it hurt a lot, it's very possible she may have died while performing it.

However, because of a few things we'll talk about later, I'm not sure this is very likely. The answer I find more likely is that, unfortunately, she may have committed suicide by jumping off the staircase we see her standing on in her Undercover silhouette shot.

For one, because what the hell would this shot even be otherwise. I've seen people suggest infanticide as opposed to abortion, but that wouldn’t cause physical pain (you could argue that answer is about emotional pain, but I'm not sure how much that works), it doesn't match her kill-shot in Undercover, and she herself has claimed her "muder" was abortion (and I don't see reason for her to lie about that). It also doesn't seem likely she would get pregnant more than once, seeing this question:

(T2) Q10: If you could turn back time, would you commit the same murder once again?

Y: I'd make sure that I won't have to commit it. That's it.

So, then, what the hell is up with that Undercover shot? Usually they say something important about the prisoner or their crime, but it really doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything.

This is where I bring up that Yuno falls off a staircase at the end of Umbilical.

Like, obviously this is more meant to be metaphorical, as in Yuno "slipped up" and now has to avoid falling by grabbing the balloon, which ends up destroying the staircase which had previously been related to the mixing of DNA (long story). But... she still is falling from a staircase. That is what is happening in the video. This is a silly argument, but it does exist.

Now, there's a few other things which could imply this, but that will have to wait for a moment. So while there is very little evidence for now, I'd say this is the most likely reason for why Yuno believes she may be dead. Especially given she might have depression (check out this cool post by weather-cluddy), her comitting suicide is sort of the best guess we can make I feel.

Nevertheless, no matter the reason why, Yuno believes she may be dead, which opens the door to other characters, if not all of them, to be dead as well. Let's take a look at the other prisoner most likely to actually be dead in my opinion, and see if we can establish a pattern.

Haruka's Worrying Situation

I believe, even if no one else is dead, it is highly likely Haruka attempted suicide. I am not going to go too in-depth in here, because moibakadesu already made a really good post about it, which is where I got the theory from in the first place. In fact, the idea Haruka may have at least attempted suicide has existed ever since Trial 1, check out this cool post by Venus from thinkin-bout-milgram. Here's a summary of what the main points of the theory are:

-The repeated motif of water and drowning could indicate the way Haruka killed himself, especially since he lived in Naogaka, Niigata, known as the "city of water."

-Haruka repeatedly attacks and even strangles a younger version of himself in Weakness, in one occasion alongside the lyric "I've become a victim, I've become a victim."

-The young girl in Weakness might actually be a representation of the "ideal Haruka", as he's stated his mother wanted a daughter instead of a son (I don't actually agree with this part, I do think the girl is a literal girl Haruka killed, due to several lines from his VDs, such as him saying Amane "brings back bad memories." However, it's still a possibility)

-The nonchalance with which Haruka speaks of comitting suicide in his second MV, Metamorphosis of the Weak, could imply he's already done it once.

-The line "if with one click, and I can reset everything" in AKAA can be more directly translated to "if with the push of one button I could be reborn", which paired with butterflies being symbols of death and rebirth and being connected to Haruka because of the name of his second VD, could imply Haruka died and was reborn.

-Haruka standing on a chair in AKAA as his shadow lines up with the shadow of the bars in the window to create the ilusion he has a noose around his neck.

-At the end of AKAA, Haruka is surrounded in what looks to be formaldehyde, which is used to preserve the corpses of dead animals, while the aforementioned "I could be reborn" lyric plays.

As you can see, there's a lot here, which is why I think it is highly likely Haruka comitted suicide.

There is an issue with bringing this theory in, which is that part of the theory is that Haruka's silhouette in the Undercover shot doesn't have white noise, which separates him from the others and could imply he's a victim like Hinako and Mahiru's boyfriend, who similarly have no white noise. The problem for our purposes is that this theory assumes a lot of the other prisoners, such as Yuno, may have committed suicide as well, creating an inconsistency with this point. I don't have a good answer for this, beyond a really odd, Hamlet-esque "Haruka is a victim of his own madness" kind of thing which doesn't work very well, so unless any of you have another explanation, it's best for this theory to just sorta ignore the white noise thing.

So, now we have two prisoners who very likely died before Milgram. This vaguely establishes a possible pattern: what if all the prisoners were taken right as they died?

Muu’s Mysterious Memory Mishaps

Es: You said you wanted to go back home, right? And, "suppose" we did let you… Even if you were to leave this place, you'll then have a brush with the police, won't you? Muu: *Surprised* E: I mean, you've killed someone anyway, so are the police not making a move in regards to that? M: Well, I don't know. As of now, I don't have a clear memory of what happened after I did it. And then before I knew it, I was here. E: Is… that so? M: You guys should've known that, being the ones who brought me here after all.

This line from Muu’s first VD has always intrigued me. Muu doesn’t have a very good reason to be lying here when seen in full context, so she’s likely telling the truth. But, why? Why doesn’t Muu remember anything clearly after her crime, and why was she taken so quickly after committing it?

First idea is that perhaps all the prisoners are simply taken right after the murder they’re in Milgram for; even in the case of multiple murders, you can say Milgram just decided to take them for the last one exclusively.

However, Shidou serves as a counter example, because of the ending of Throw Down.

It’s a pretty simple logical progression. Shidou has no reason to kill after the flower person dies, so their death is after his last murder most likely, and yet he does remember it happening. Thus, Shidou has a memory of something which happened an undetermined amount of time after his final murder.

That means the "fuzzy memories" thing isn't universal. This can also be vaguely inferred by the attitudes certain prisoners have regarding their "murder(s)", like Kazui for example.

Now, you could argue Muu simply doesn't remember well because of the Trauma, and she just happened to get taken shortly after her murder. However, there is a chance now that there is a reason she was taken shortly after her murder.

You know what this post is about. You know what I'm about to imply. So I'll make the observation now:

In It's Not my Fault, one of Muu's shoes is off after she kills Rei. And we have seen this imagery of "one shoe off" to represent suicide before.

It's common in Japan to take both shoes off before comitting suicide, but if you want to read into only one of the shoes being off, you could argue it represents they're "half-suicides", as Milgram also considers them murders. In that sense, you (or Muu) could argue were Muu to commit suicide after killing Rei, then she would also become "Rei's victim", the same way Hinako and Mahiru's boyfriend are Kazui and Mahiru's victims.

This idea that Muu might still be a victim in the situation could also be implied by the lyrics here:

[It's Not my Fault] It’s not my fault after all, after all. Everyone wants me to be innocent. What a relief. Can’t be helped. I’m always meant to be pitied!

(Btw I'm using the fan translation in the wiki because the English subs in that video are... odd)

Yes that sentiment is repeated a lot during the song, but Muu does shout "I'm always meant to be pitied" ("I'm always the drama queen") at the top of her lungs here.

Now, the shoe thing isn't quite like that in After Pain, but we never actually see Muu's shoes in the real world, only in the blank inner world with the broken hourglass, and there are other inconsistencies with reality there, namely Rei's body's position.

You can see her right shoe is on there, but again, this scene isn't real.

The concerning thing is that apart from that, After Pain does not help Muu beat the suicide allegations.

In particular, look at the scene of the photo I put there. You can see there's a bunch of people judging Muu for her murder, as it's usually not considered a socially acceptable thing to do. But, hold on, didn't Muu say she didn't remember anything after her murder? Correct! That means she doesn't remember this "judgement" happening, but she imagined it would. Perhaps that's what the one line means:

[After Pain] Counterattack being a suicide note

Counterattacking Rei, killing her, is social suicide. For obvious reasons.

...

But it's still called a suicide note, which is not a good look. And yes, I do think the Japanese lyric explicitly references death, though take that with a lot of salt since that's just Google Translate and DeepL talking.

In fact, that entire set of lyrics is pretty odd.

[After Pain] Let’s meet up inside the pain, a place just for me Postmortem makeup to hide my heart, how to solve it is a secret The stabbing of the little devil’s voice, counterattack being a suicide note “I love YOU”

"Meeting up inside the pain" probably refers to hurting Rei, so now they're hurting together. The "stabbing of a little devil's voice" is probably referring to dangerous impulses, so murderous thoughts. "Counterattack being a suicide note", already explained. "I love YOU", because Muu is a girlkisser.

But the "postmortem makeup" is odd. You could argue the "death" which happened before the "makeup" was applied was the "death" of Muu's reputation, her old persona. Rei "killed" "that Muu", and now Muu is hiding her real feelings with "postmortem makeup."

But then, why would the method to solve it be a secret? Who is she keeping it secret from? Rei, and all of Muu's old 'friends', all know what lies beyond that makeup, they all saw what Muu was like before Rei stepped in.

That means there's another interpretation. If her real feelings are a secret, there's only one person they would be a secret from. Es (and us by extension). In a way, After Pain is hiding part of her heart, the less sympathetic parts shown in full in It's Not My Fault. Muu being a bully was already implied in After Pain, mind you, but it was still relatively "hidden", at least compared to It's Not my Fault.

And if that is the way we're meant to read that line, we run into the allegations again. If the makeup is for Milgram, and it's "postmortem" makeup, then Muu is already dead.

And that's without mentioning how much After Pain seems to imply suicidal tendencies in general.

[After Pain] If I was gone, If I had just disappeared I overheard, I found out How much I’m not needed There’s no special meaning, I got the short end of the stick I overheard, I found out How much I’m not needed

I don’t want tomorrow to come, I want to forget yesterday I was miserable, someone please help me

Maybe I’m done Just one more time before saying goodbye I’m just kidding, please forget I said that

The only lyric that doesn't seem to imply it is:

I want to feel “alive”, is it ok if I breathe?

But feeling alive and being alive isn't quite the same, right? You can be alive without feeling alive, and if someone doesn't feel alive, it's possible they're not a very good state of mind.

So, what could this all imply? If we're going with the idea of murder-suicide, it's possible Muu was very worried about how people would hate her after the murder, as implied by After Pain, decided she didn't want to deal with that, and unfortunately made the decision to kill herself.

One small thing which could serve as a counterpoint is her Trial 1 Voice Reveal distorted line.

Fufufu... It's your fault... for doing horrible things to me.

She seems pretty sure of herself here, and it's very likely this is after her murder. But it's perfectly possible she said this initially, then thought about the social consequences, and that's when she started to feel bad. It's also worth noting the only time in It's Not my Fault where Muu seems to hesitate is right after her murder.

[It's Not my Fault] Wait, wait, just as a hypothetical. What should I do if I’m actually a bad girl? Don’t ever hate me, and don’t look for what lies “after and from” the pain.

This is immediately after the murder, when she comes out of a caccoon, presumably her arriving at Milgram. So, she was initally confident, that's when she says "I’m always meant to be pitied!" in It's Not my Fault and presumably her Voice Reveal line, then hesitated and started to feel awful as we see in After Pain.

... Well, there's also the way more uncharitable reading where Muu killed herself so people also pitied her instead of just hating her for killing Rei, but that's a bit too dark and in bad faith for my tastes. It is there, though.

So, yeah, Muu may be dead too. And she brings with her an interesting implication; the prisoners may not have clear memories of the events leading up to their death. So, even if some of them committed suicide, it's possible they simply don't remember ever taking the decision to do so, explaining their behavior in the prison.

And it also could explain away... one apparent contradiction. One which exists outside of this theory, but that this theory could explain.

Amane and the Voice Reveal Trailers

As most of you know, the Voice Reveal trailers for all these characters contain certain distorted phrases which in general seem closely linked to their murder. And as pointed out by blueepink07 in this post, it seems the First Trial Voice Reveals are things the prisoners said after their murder, while the Second Trial ones are showing a point before their murder. Check out Kazui's, for example.

(T1) "I'm so dumb... Why did I have to dream?"

(T2) "Hinako, I love you more than anything."

There's also Muu's, since I've already brought it up before.

(T1) "Fufufu... It's your fault... for doing horrible things to me."

(T2) "Hey..why don't you listen to me...? I'm telling you... Hey...HEY, I'M TALKING TO YOU"

The second being right before she killed Rei.

That works well enough for all the prisoners... except Amane.

(T1) "Ahh! I'm so sorry...! I'm sorry...! I'm sorry for breaking the rules!"

(T2) "Father is a very praiseworthy person. Once [my/his] virtue increases, he'll come back home, right? It's a little lonely, but I'm fine!"

In theory, Amane would have been punished before her murder, as we see happen after she heals the cat in the taser scene. Meanwhile, if she's lonely without her father, it could perhaps be because her mother is dead after Things Happened (yes I'm going with Mother!Victim theory on this one).

But that's not the case. Following the pattern, the line about her father coming home at some point is before her murder, and apparently, she was punished for breaking some kind of rule after her murder. The implication here, horrid as it is, could be that her father returned home after she killed her mother and punished her for doing so.

Thankfully, this is impossible. After all:

(T1) Q18: Do you regret your "murder"?

A: No. It was a natural obligation.

(T2) Q3: State the name of your victim.

A: There is no victim. Only the punished.

(Taking some liberties on the translation of Trial 2 since the questions are still coming out as I write this)

So Amane genuinely believes she was following her cult's principles to a T when she killed her mom. As much as that likely isn't the case (long story), if she had gotten punished for killing her mom, then she wouldn't think like this. If she had been punished for it, she wouldn't think her murder was a "natural obligation", but rather a mistake on her part.

What this implies is that Amane doesn't remember being punished by her father.

...

Amane... doesn't remember...

Fuck.

Yeah, remember when I said it was possible the prisoners don't have clear memories of the events leading up to their death? Going by the "T1 after - T2 before" logic the Voice Reveals seem to follow, we can infer Amane was likely punished for killing her mother, but we also know she can't remember it happening, otherwise she would regret it. And based on what we learnt from Muu, we do have a way to explain how that could happen. If Amane died while receiving the punishment the T1 Voice Reveal alludes to, she wouldn't have a clear memory of it.

And the thing is, it does seem likely Amane received this punishment. Think about it. Interrogation questions are one thing, since the creators don't fully control them, but why mention her father would possibly return home in the Voice Reveal trailer? Unless he did. Hell, you could argue we might know the exact moment he returned. Amane does look at the entrance of her apartment at the end of Purge March, though that could simply be for dramatic effect rather than being a literal thing which happened.

But there's more. Because if her father returned home, we might actually have an answer for another one of the mysteries surrounding Amane's situation. The Undercover prisoner card.

The image on her card seems to show a bathroom. It is widely assumed the images on these cards are the location the murders happened in, but to my knowledge, this isn't 100% confirmed. However, this creates a small issue with Amane. Just looking at the murder shot in Purge March is enough to confirm that.

I made a more detailed theory on her murder on this post, diagrams included (scroll to the bottom if you're only interested on the murder), but for now, there are two things to note here. One, there's a trail of water which seems to come out of the door with the light on, as the puddles are bigger the closer they get to it, implying that room is the bathroom. And two, the room the murder actually happened in seems to have a window/door behind a curtain, which isn't what Amane's bathroom looks like.

Adittionally, there isn't any blood outside of the murder room, implying the victim's body wasn't dragged there.

All this seems to imply Amane's victim didn't die in the bathroom, which is sorta a problem considering the previously mentioned commonly accepted theory. But this idea that Amane may have died while being punished, perhaps while being drowned as we know that's one of the accepted methods of punishment in her cult, brings up a different possibility.

What if the images in the prisoner cards aren't showing murder location? What if they show the last place the prisoner was seen in, the place they died?

Kotoko, Mikoto, and the Prisoner Cards

So, first, is there any indication either of these might be dead? For Mikoto, not really. Sure, there's the whole Death card at the end of MeMe thing, but that doesn't have to be taken so literally.

Kotoko has a very little potential hint in the fact she's shown alongside a wolf at the start of HARROW, but by the end the wolf is by itself. If the wolf represents a potential partner (long story), then maybe Kotoko died?

Though you can easily argue the wolf is slightly different and thus is meant to just represent Kotoko.

However, the reason I'm bringing them into this is because their prisoner cards are completely nonsensical under "murder location" theory for the images shown. Let's start with Kotoko.

It shows an alleyway, which at first seems like it makes sense. We do see her attacking a man in an alleyway. However, after that happens, one of the pieces of background text says this:

◆ A wanted thief was assaulted by an unknown assailant Early yesterday morning, a nearby shop employee reported hearing screaming and seeing a man lying on the ground. According to the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department, the man had lost consciousness after being beaten on his face, stomach, and other areas, and was taken to the hospital. The police are currently trying to identify the suspect. [...] According to previous investigations, the male victim was wanted throughout Tokyo for theft and assault charges and was identified as the suspect, Mikio Oshii.

(Translation by Maristelina)

Mikio Oshii is the name of the man Kotoko assaulted in the alleyway. It seems odd to me that we would learn he was taken to the hospital if he later died in it somehow, especially because Kotoko didn't want to kill him. We can clearly see this because of a crucial difference between her attack on him and her attack on the serial killer who likely is her victim.

She covers her face while attacking Oshii, because she doesn't want to be recognized. She is committing assault, after all. However, that only matters if she's planning to keep him alive. Conversely, she doesn't cover her face while attacking the serial killer, because she knows he won't be a witness. She went into that warehouse planning to kill.

Of course, she could have accidentally done too much damage, but the issue there is that she would probably express some remorse in that case. She doesn't, and the fact she only ever talks about one victim-

[TASK (T1 VD)] I did kill someone. [...] I don't have a single regret.

-it really seems like Oshii was able to survive her attack.

That creates an issue with her prisoner card. It shows an alleyway, but her only victim died in a warehouse. As confusing as that sequence is, he did die in the warehouse.

You know when we do see an alleyway again, though?

But she's not wearing her face covering. And if this was the alley with the one sign about a car accident that shows up over and over in HARROW, I'd imagine we'd see the sign, even if it was obscured in some way. So once again, a silhouette shot which seems to have nothing to do with her murder or her general situation.

So, is it possible she died in this alleyway? That's the only other reason I can imagine why it'd show up in her prisoner card, so. As for what exactly happened, I imagine she may have been murdered at the whim of her victim's father?

Shocking revelation: The heinous criminal behind the crime is the privileged son of a high-ranking official!

(Article referring to Kotoko's victim)

So, she got found out and immediately assassinated? It's a bit out there, but it would explain both her prisoner card and her attitude in the prison.

And then there's Mikoto.

As you can see, his card shows a street. The issue with Mikoto is one of format. The cards only ever show one location, but we know Mikoto has at least two victims.

[Text: To the right, the Subway Murder, which clearly has a ceiling. The murderer has blood on his right cheek, his left cheek is hidden. There's also the bathhtub scene, where the right cheek is hidden, but the left cheek has blood already trailing off, which doesn't quite fit what we see in the other murder if you think about the bath chronologically.

To the left, a murder out in the street, with an open sky. The murderer has blood on their left cheek, but not on their right. This is seen in both the crime and the shower scene]

So yeah, at least two. You could argue the bathtub murder is actually a third one, which... huh. Two things that absolutely exist and a Secret Third Thing, the existance of which is disputed? Trikoto vibes.

Point is, Mikoto has two different murder locations at least. The street, yes, but also the subway. This creates a problem with the "images in the prisoner cards are murder locations" idea, because it only shows one. You could try to gymnastics your way out of this by saying maybe Hostkoto committed the street murder while Orekoto killed the other victim(s), and because only Hostkoto is considered a prisoner by Milgram, only his murder is shown? But I feel that raises more questions than it answers.

Instead, if we assume the images to be death locations, the ambiguity disappears, because Mikoto as a system can only have one death location. The issue is you have to explain how Mikoto died in the middle of the street, which is a bit difficult.

The best guess I can give is related to the subway victim. It's been pointed out before that guy looks a lot like a stereotypical Japanese delinquent, which could imply he was part of a gang. If that's the case, it's possible the killer angered the wrong people by killing him, similar to Kotoko, and thus was later murdered himself. We know that street isn't very safe, on account of one of the alters getting away with murder there. It's a pretty large stretch, and has like zero evidence, but it's physically possible at least.

Let's take a quick look at the other prisoners and see if their images can also be explained by the "death image" theory.

We know Muu would share a death location with her victim if she really committed suicide as the theory states, so nothing weird there. Haruka's a bit more awkward, because it shows the forest he very likely killed the girl in, but I'm not entirely sure if the forests near Nagaoka has bodies of water deep enough to drown oneself. There is the Shinano river, which has... trees, around it.

This was taken from Google Street View in Nagaoka. Again, not sure how deep it is, but assuming it's deep enough to drown, it could work if you ignore the trees don't look too much like the ones irl. Maybe Haruka threw himself off the bridge?

Alternatively, Nagaoka borders the sea, and it seems like there's forest almost all the way up to it. So maybe that could work? Unsure.

Worst comes to worst, we can maybe change it to saying Haruka didn't drown himself, but killed himself in some other way in the forest. Point is, I think Haruka's isn't too big of an issue.

Fuuta, Mahiru and Kazui don't have a lot of evidence towards what the hell would have happened, but the best assumption I can make is they all committed suicide because of guilt. Fuuta in his room, Mahiru in the suicide forest (likely also where her boyfriend committed suicide), and Kazui by jumping off a building like Hinako. As for their evidence...

>Fuuta burns at the end of Backdraft, which is the same thing that happens to Killcheroy, so you could argue that's meant to show he's dying. It's not great, it absolutely is just meant to be metaphorical most likely, but it is there.

Additionally, he's also an outlier for the "muder location image" theory, since what one would consider his "murder location" is very ambiguous. Is it his room, where he sent online hate from? Is it Killcheroy's room, where she assumedly died? Wouldn't it be the front of Killcheroy's house, where Fuuta took the picture to dox her? Again, death location is less ambiguous.

Fuuta's attitude during Trial 1 could be seen as a bit weird if he was suicidal, but I'm not sure we can comfortably say that with the limited information we have.

>Mahiru in I Love You goes to sleep after seeing her boyfriend dead, which could be read as her committing suicide. You know, if you're insane like me.

Especially given this question from Trial 1:

(T1) Q20: What do you think about smoking?

M: I've never smoked before, but I might copy him if who I love smokes.

That, alongside a lot of the bg text from TIHTBILWY, implies Mahiru likes the idea of copying her lover. Not the greatest quality to have when your lover commits suicide.

>Kazui has this:

Where the smoke of his cigarette turns into a noose. Of course, that's meant to represent self-destruction in general, but it could also be taken more literally. He... doesn't have much else.

Thus, everyone else vaguely fits the idea of "death image"... except him.

Our favorite headache inducing doctor strikes again! His card shows a hospital room, which is a very strange death location, but perfectly fits his murders. You could argue he runs into the same issue as Mikoto, but it's actually possible Shidou just killed all his victims in the same room, so.

Yeah, Shidou's probably the biggest counterargument for this theory. Because while it's possible he died in a hospital, there is zero evidence for it, beyond the image itself. Hell, neither Throw Down or Triage ever seems to imply he died in the first place, which is an issue. This theory's already heavily dependant on the extremely flawed "you can't disprove it" argument, but at least most of the other ones have some kind of logical progression which gets you to how they died.

So, to complete the theory, we have to make the pretty big jump that Shidou died inside a hospital room, without knowing how that happened.

... Wait, inside the room?

Wait wait wait, show me Fuuta's and Amane's again.

Hmmm... 0308... hmmmm... 0308... I totally didn't just do this to put the two together... hm...

Yeah, same thing. They both show the inside of a room. Which, along with Shidou's, shows that these images can show the inside of buildings, right?

But, then... why is Yuno's outside?

That very clearly isn't the inside of a building. But this generates a problem for the "murder location image" theory, because Yuno's "murder" was abortion. Even if it wasn't done professionally, she would have still done it inside, presumably. This creates an inconsistency with Fuuta, Amane and Shidou. If their murder locations are shown from inside, why is Yuno different?

However, this inconsistency disappears if we assume the images to be death locations. I previously established if Yuno died, she likely committed suicide by jumping off a staircase, which does vaguely fit this image. It's similar to Kazui's in that way.

Now, I don't want to get too ahead of myself here. Murder location is still absolutely the more straightforward answer, but it does come with its issues. As stated, Fuuta's image would face some ambiguity, Mikoto's would face extreme ambiguity, Amane's seems to contradict the evidence we're shown in Purge March, Yuno's is wildly inconsistent with the other images, and Kotoko's is straight up nonsensical.

Meanwhile, death locations physically work with all the cases, even if Shidou's case is extremely weird, but it requires huge assumptions and stretches. It relies heavily on how impossible it is to disprove, which is not a good sign. Russell's Teapot, and all that.

Summary of the Theory

>Everyone in Milgram is dead, and their prisoner cards in Undercover show the place where they died.

>Prisoner's memories of the events leading up to their deaths are extremely fuzzy, explaining why only Yuno seems to even suspect it.

+Haruka: Committed suicide by drowning himself, possibly in the Shinano river or the sea. [Most likely to be dead]

+Yuno: Committed suicide by jumping off the staircase we see her standing in on her Undercover silhouette shot. [Most likely to be dead]

+Fuuta: Committed suicide in his room out of guilt. [Very little evidence]

+Muu: Murder-suicide, she committed suicide after killing Rei. [A bit more evidence than others]

+Shidou: Died in a hospital room [???]

+Mahiru: "Copied" her boyfriend by killing herself in the suicide forest. [Very little evidence]

+Kazui: Jumped off a building, like Hinako. [Very little evidence]

+Amane: Drowned by her father as "punishment" for her murder. [Unfortunately, sorta likely]

+Mikoto: Murdered by one of the members of Subway Victim's gang. [Sort of filling in the blanks here]

+Kotoko: Murdered at the order of her victim's father. [Very little evidence]

Conclusion

Do I believe this theory? Honestly, I don't know. It makes a few too many assumptions for me to fully believe it, but I do think it's a decent possibility, so I wanted to share it with you all. In any case, that's all I have to say for now. If you have any thoughts about any of this, feel free to share! Also I didn't even touch on Es but you can try to fit them in somehow if you feel like it.

Anyways, if you made it this far, you deserve a hug, this post was depressing. Take care!

[eroguron0nsense]

Doflamingo, Love, and Arrested Development

This is mostly just me paraphrasing other Doffy metas and comments I've made but I kinda feel like the real tragedy behind Doflamingo's warped psychology kind of gets missed by people who focus more on his trauma in and of itself and get lost in discourses about having sympathy for characters despite their complete lack of morality and disregard for everyone (perfectly possible), or whether Doflamingo has any redeeming characteristics or genuine concern for anyone or anything outside of himself (he doesn't).

Doffy's story is fundamentally a tragedy, but not because of his childhood traumas or how drastic and painful they are; plenty of One Piece characters experience severe abuses or incomprehensible loss, but they're ultimately stories of how to find hope in the face of the incomprehensibly traumatic, or the salvation/redemptive power of love. Even characters who don't necessarily see their goals fulfilled (see Fisher Tiger, Pedro, Ashura Doji, EGGHEAD SPOILERS etc) aren't fundamentally tragic ones in the way that, say, Ace is, in that they die having fulfilled their goals to the best of their ability and knowing that people will carry on where they left off, even if they don't get to see the liberation they hoped for. Rosinante's story isn't a tragedy because he dies satisfied that he's given hope to someone he loves deeply (and to some extent tried to make amends for some of the guilt he clearly feels for participating in an institution that ruined that child's life).

Doffy, on the other hand, is a never-ending downward spiral from day 1. He was indoctrinated by evil people from birth and never has it addressed (his parents, for all their talk about living more simply than the Celestial Dragons, NEVER actually say "slavery is bad" to Doffy when he asks them why they don't own people any more and I have my own theory on why), who then suffers unbelievable trauma and has his sense of loss–both of his "birthright" and his innocence/ childhood–weaponized for evil. And he spends the rest of his life in this semi-permanent state of arrested development and violent entitlement. He can't have the station and privilege of the Celestial Dragons to... own slaves and live in luxury, so he builds a kingdom where HE reigns supreme and everyone who crosses him is killed or enslaved as a toy. His mother dies and he kills his father, so he assembles a cult-like "family" to try and compensate for the one he's lost/destroyed, but he doesn't and likely doesn't know how to love them in any meaningful way beyond being possessive of them and seeing them as extensions of himself (e.g. he's willing to kill anyone who makes fun of Pica because no one's allowed to antagonize his "family", but he also orders Monet to do a suicide bombing in Punk Hazard, and he's willing to sacrifice one of them for the eternal life surgery, etc). I think that might be why, even though he should know Corazon has every reason to hate and fear him, he's still so eager to take his brother in when they reunite as adults–he shouldn't trust him, and he eventually comes to suspect him of treason, but he's desperate to have a family and Corazon is emblematic of something he wants but can never have because he's a cruel stunted person who knows nothing but entitlement and violence and cannot process the idea that anything has value or merits selflessness and sacrifice.

Everything Doflamingo does is defined by trying to replace or compensate for the family and privilege he was "supposed" to have, but he doesn't love anyone or even understand how real love works because he's been taught to have no regard for human life and all he knows is that love = absolute servitude, that his interests are ultimately more important than the wellbeing of his "family" members, and that betrayal means death. And far be it from me to sympathize with a fallen aristocrat's deranged revenge power fantasies, but it does demonstrate how oppressive institutions inevitably deprive their own beneficiaries of some of their humanity, and consequently fuck them for life. Doffy craves genuine affection and has had his capacity for it permanently stunted by his former class station and indoctrination.

This craving for love combined with an inability to actually feel it in any meaningful way factors into why he's so obsessed with Law, who he kept hardcore projecting onto in the flashbacks and who he expected to turn out just like him. His brother chose Law over Doflamingo and even his undercover mission out of love, and for all his traumas and hangups, Law can find his own crew and friends who he cares about, and he's able to live on and find meaning even after losing EVERYTHING because Corazon genuinely loved him enough to die protecting him. Doffy, on the other hand, is doomed to a loveless, misanthropic, cruel existence where he tortures countless people to compensate, but he can't replace what he's lost and he'll never find it. It's not what Corazon would have wanted, but Law fighting for and honouring Corazon's memory in everything he does enrages Doffy, who will never be able to understand why they cared for each other so deeply, and why both of them are integral to his downfall.

[alfredsolos]

So, since my post about Duke Thomas, I realized that a lot of people don't know anything about the batfamily so this is basically my Cassandra Cain version. This list will include facts about her and some of her feats.

The first person to wear the Black Bat costume wasn't Cassandra, it was the Huntress

The first time she killed someone, she was 8 years old and she ripped a man's throat with her bare hands. This was, what led to her running away. She lived in the streets for 9 years after that.

Not only Cass wasn't able to speak or write, she also had issues understanding people. So after 9 years of not seeing her daughter, David Cain realized that her daughter was understanding him so he cried.

After her first kill, David Cain kneeled down to hug her. And similar to that, the first time she spoke to him he tried to hug her. But Cass, just as she had done when she was 8, slammed him through a wall.

David Cain had also trained Batman.

The first few months of being Batgirl, Cass only wanted to please Batman and prove to him that she could be useful. This brought out problems in the future.

Cass didn't know any form of verbal communication. But she knew, what Batman called, the language of violence. Where she communicated with using martial arts movements.

Cass and Azrael got along splendidly. They understood each other, and respected each other.

The first time Cass danced, it was to Azrael.

Cass, through out her time as Batgirl, was literally suicidal. She did not care about her safety at all. And not like in a self-sacrifical way. It was borderline suicidal.

She had nightmares every single night, during the few months she became Batgirl.

Cass wasn't tought how to fight with an escrima, so Bruce thought her. She learned it in 5 minutes.

Barbara encouraged Cass to learn the alphabet but she honestly couldn't care less. All Cass wanted to do was fight.

During a rescue mission Cass couldn't pick a door's lock. So she kicked through a wall.

During the first few months of Cass being Batgirl, Bruce observed her very closely. And concluded that she was literally perfect.

When you read her comics, you realize that she does not have any thinking bubbles. That's because she didn't think. She only focused on fighting, and that's why she was so deadly. But after an encounter with a meta, the meta changed her and she started to understand and actually speak both internally and externally. This caused problems however, because she couldn't focus on fighting. So she kind of lost her ability to read people. Cass had to relearn it.

Cass, to scare a criminal, stopped his heart for a few seconds.

This is the end of part 1, continue reading the part 2.

[beauty-and-passion]

CCCC Vol.1 - Cacophony: entering the lore (1/5)

Hello and welcome back to my analysis of CCCC.

Do you see that little beautiful number in the title? Well, the Cacophony act is long, I couldn’t fit an entire analysis into one single post. It would’ve been endless, Mucka Blucka alone took this entire first post!

So you will get the full analysis in manageable pieces and I will introduce each piece with a brief recap, so we won’t miss anything ;)

A brief recap of what we got from the Calamity act:

The events are stuck in a time loop, caused by the clash between Heart and Mind

Chonny starts to show his frustration regarding writing songs others already wrote

Soul is introduced and the poor guy is so tired of everything (from Heart and Mind to the loop), to ponder suicide. But in the end, he finds the strength to give it another try. Maybe things will be different this time.

<- Previous post - First post

_______________________________

Mucka Blucka (Intro to Cacophony): welcome to the lore

"I decided to do the ENTIRETY of MMMM, and it’d be very, very funny if the dumb chicken song was the most verbose in the album." (Chonny’s Q&A)

Well, it is funny that the stupid song got the honor of being not just the most verbose of the album, but also the introduction to the lore and the preview of what will come.

*

A clear vision: Chonny makes it clear from the very first verses that:

We will see his struggles, pain and dark thoughts  (“My blood, my sweat, my open doors”, as he will say in Taken for a Ride)

The songs are full of metaphors

There is a time loop ("So when we come back here again, and the start becomes an end/Consider this lamentation a foreword")

*

Awareness of the time loop: In Dream, Soul showed us he’s aware of the loop. Now Heart and Mind show the same awareness.

This confirms the point I previously made about all sides knowing the same stuff Chonny knows. No delay of information, here

This justifies Soul’s frustration even more. He knows they should come back into one and yet, the other two sides still haven’t learned a single thing after so many loops

*

The loop as a punishment: while talking about the loop, Heart and Mind say that they are “condemned” to repeat it.

From one side, none of them is taking the blame. It’s as if it’s not their fault, but the fault of something outside of them. Maybe an event that influenced them.

From a meta perspective, it’s very poetic/tragic, because Heart and Mind are condemned to clash every time, because of their contrasting natures. Because, as Chonny said in the Q&A, they’re parts of the same being and yet, they “can produce completely separate and juxtaposed conclusions from a single input”. So it’s not specifically their fault the loop happened: it’s because they are built this way.

*

Wanting and refusing the audience: Chonny wants an audience that listens to him, but at the same time, he acknowledges his audience isn’t able to understand his work:

Who will refuse to properly see The man behind the lines The triplicated rhymes

And later on, he says his audience cannot help him either.

This all anticipates and connects to Greener. In that song too, Chonny will show the same apparent contradiction - it will also be explained better, so for now, I’ll just point out how Chonny shows the same consistent vision.

(But yes, this thought is understandable. Every artist wants an audience, even if they’re not the main reason why art is made. Art is an artist’s need first and that’s particularly true in Chonny’s case. But we’ll talk about that in the Concord act.)

*

The current leader: First Soul wants to introduce us to their “poultric pullet commander”, then Mind immediately follows, by saying: “The coward in question? By now, you know him so well”.

And since we will soon learn that Mind doesn’t have a high consideration of Heart, we can safely deduce that yes, the current leader is Heart. And yes, this makes sense in the overall narrative.

*

Heart: Sisyphus, hate, the despited

Heart is Sisyphus: just like him, he’s forced to roll his rock up the hill (aka to keep their vessel moving forward). And every time he’s almost reached the top, every time he feels they’re accomplishing something, his efforts are in vain and they come back to square one. And he’s doing it for a very long time. Can’t really blame him, if he gets overwhelmed by pessimism.

Heart is associated with hate: as seen before, Heart can be pessimistic and dark, and that's because he’s not just the bearer of positive feelings. As he will say in The Heart Acoustic, he’s ��the emotional side”, not the “positive emotions only side”.

Heart is the despited: he embodies all emotions and those are instinctual, uncontrollable forces. We always blame them (and consequently our hearts) when they make us do stupid shit.

(And how we’re aware we’re doing stupid shit? Thanks to our minds. So yes, Mind despising Heart for everything he does makes perfect sense too.)

*

Mind: time, berate, the freak

Mind is associated with time: a great reference to Ruler of Everything, a song about how time is the ruler of everything and, by association, how Mind is the ruler of their vessel… or at least, that’s what he wants to be, because for now their leader is still Heart.

Mind berates Heart and oh my god if he does it. He spends entire songs to diss the other side, "berate" is the perfect verb for him.

Mind is a freak: again, incredibly human and understandable. Not just because Mind is a freak (Heart himself will call him "automaton freak" and his appearance on the album cover is freakish too), but also because it's very common to associate cleverness with freakiness. The more clever someone is, the more they look/act like a freak. And who is more of a freak, if not the embodiment of the mind himself?

*

Soul: minutiae, amalgamate, the enlightened and the free

Soul is associated with minutiae, through a reference to 1984: just like Winston in the Ministry of Truth, so Soul feels in his powerful position, forced to drag himself through every futile, trivial detail. Like, you know, listening to Heart and Mind's "silly war" (The Bidding).

Soul is associated with "to amalgamate": again, his vision is clear, he remembers the goal. To become one.

Soul is the enlightened, because he's the only one remembering that goal from start to end and actively working for it. The other two get... well, a bit lost on the way.

Soul is the free: as stated in Dream, he's the most powerful of these three characters. The other two aim to control him, but Soul cannot be controlled.

*

A connection with Sanders Sides: these two lines made my brain immediately click

And sure, I lament the lack of a hen to share with in sick or in health But how am I supposed to love another when I barely know myself?

Why? Because they’re a lot similar to this line:

[Thomas]: Do I really know myself as well as I should?

and this line is the premise of Sanders Sides. So yes, it’s interesting (and understandable) that both stories open with the same idea of “not fully understanding yourself” as a starting point for a deeper exploration of the self.

The big difference is that Chonny takes one step further and doesn’t just tell he doesn’t know himself… but that he cannot pretend to love someone else, if he doesn’t know himself first. Which is the solution to the Thomas/Nico relationship I kept talking about for ages.

(I will write that post about these two series, I promise)

Also… remember this point about loving others when we will reach Concord.

*

About the Juno Incident: Chonny says that "there's a me stuck underground", clearly referring to the Juno incident and how Heart got stuck in the hole dug for Mind...

But, wait: the incident hasn’t happened yet. How can Heart be already stuck?

Unless the Juno incident is a fixed event of the time loop. Every time the loop restarts, the Juno incident happens, Heart misses Mind and gets stuck in that hole.

This also explains how they can talk about the incident in such clear detail and especially about the events before and after said incident:

One time they tried to sing to me About blues and greens; the in-betweens But mechanical hands decided where the Heart would be Just apathy I had been trying for years and for years that streamed To thrive, and relish entropy But when he finally shot at me Lines once solid were blurred

Heart says that they tried to find a compromise, an in-between (Night). But then, Mind slowly took over: he appointed himself as the new leader (Ruler of Everything) and decided Heart was beneath him. Heart’s reaction was a slow descent into apathy (Just Apathy), until he gave Mind full control of the vessel (The Heart Acoustic).

On the other hand, Mind says he tried for years to thrive, to keep their vessel up (Be Born, Storm and a Spring, The Mind Electric). But when Heart shot at him, he “blurred the lines”: his action reminded them both they’re not separate entities. They are the same entity. And that’s because:

And right as he (I) missed, my eyes in a mist I finally realized I shot at myself

Heart’s eyes were “in a mist”, because feelings are irrational and instinctual, so of course he didn’t act with a clear, logical mind.

Hence, he missed. But at the same time, he still hit a target: himself. Because what struck him wasn’t a bullet, but the consequences of an event. Specifically, the consequences of a failed romance.

But I will further explain this once we’ll reach Haiku and Hidden in the Sand. For now, as it was for most of this song, just keep this stuff in mind: we'll develop everything down the road ;)

Next post ->

(How about a coffee? ☕)

_______________________________

TAGLIST:

@royalprinceroman @mudpuddlenl @allmycrushesaredead @aquatedia @whatishappeningrightnow @effortiswhatmatters @bella-in-a-bag @doydoune @forever-third-wheeling @payte @hypnossanders​  @idontreallyknow24​  @imcrushedbyarainbowoffical @patton-cake​  @hereissananxiousmess​  @purplebronzeandblue​  @cynicalandsarcastic​ ​@lost-in-thought-20 @andtheyreonfire​ 

@riseofthewerewolf​ @rosesandlove44​​  @chewy-rubies @groaaaaan​ @arya-skywalker  @csi-baker-street-babes @queen-of-all-things-snuggly @reesiereads @dracayd-universe​ @starlightnyx​ @stubbornness-and-spite​ @averykedavra @joyrose-fandomer @mihaela-tbg @igonnatalknothing

@thatoneloudowl @grayson-22 @softangryfuckingdepressed @theotherella  @boopypastaissalty @nevenastark @varthandiveturinn @roses-bubbles @cuter-on-the-inside @coldbookworm @snixxxsmythe @charmingcritter  @analogical-mess @emphasis-on-the-oopsie @selfdestructivecat @yangwalkerao3 @the3rddenialist

[bonearenaofmyskull]

Feel free to answer this whenever you want; I just had to write it down because I've been seeing this analysis in the "Hannibal meta" tags for some time. I came across an analysis, or rather multiple analyses, that blatantly dismiss the Hannigram hug. Despite being a big romance fan and interpreting it romantically, the analyses mostly argued it was a tactic for Will to push them both into the sea. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Additionally, I vaguely recall a post suggesting that Will's 'it's beautiful' remark is actually distracting and disturbing, but I don't recall the details. The gist of the analysis was to not interpret the embrace and the words as romantic but rather as a rejection. Whenever you're free, could you help me understand this? Thank you; you're the best. ❤️

Okay, I'm laughing a little at this because I think...I think...I just might be the originator of the interpretation that Will used the embrace as a tool to throw the both of them off the cliff:

I almost hate to suggest this, but it’s possible the reason Will pulled Hannibal into his arms at the end of “The Wrath of the Lamb” was because he knew that the gesture would be overwhelming to Hannibal because Hannibal is in love with him. With that touch, Hannibal wouldn’t be able to think ahead to what must be coming next. (All that business about touch making us who we are and putting hands on shoulders for authenticity.) Which doesn’t mean that Will wasn’t authentically feeling the moment, but just that he knew exactly why it would work. (x)

I can't find any posts in the hannibal meta tag that you're referring to, either about the embrace or the "It's beautiful" line, and it could be either that I'm just not going back far enough (that tag is way busier than I expected it to be) or that one or the other of us are blocking each other.

So I'm not sure I understand the logic of what you're responding to, but I would say that with both points and with analyses about Hannibal in general, the biggest and most frequent mistake that I see people make is their inability or unwillingness to manage nuance. This is especially problematic in a show that is primarily concerned on the character front with duality and transformation. Hardlining a strongly polarized opinion almost never serves people well.

Both (the romantic and the tactic) can exist, but more importantly...my take on this is not just that both can exist but that neither can exist without the other.

Obviously the tactic couldn't work--it couldn't exist--unless it was overwhelmingly romantic for Hannibal. But it has to be for Will as well because it is only in its authenticity that the gesture has power over Hannibal.

And if it wasn't authentic for Will, then there would have been no need for Will to go over the cliff. The same is true for the "It's beautiful" statement: if he doesn't mean it, then there's no reason for him to die alongside this man who helped him see that beauty. My conclusion from the above post had been:

I don’t think he planned for suicide specifically or that he knew exactly what he expected to happen between himself, Francis and Hannibal (in the sense that I doubt he’d have leaped to his death if Hannibal and Francis had somehow managed to kill each other without involving him), but I think finally accepting his and Hannibal’s relationship as one that’s in love helped ready him to take that dive off the cliff. When the moment comes, when he’s finally killed with Hannibal and is awash in the beauty of that moment, it doesn’t surprise him to the point of inaction. He’s able to draw Hannibal gently into his arms and guide them both into the abyss. The beauty, the love–they simply make his path more clear.

Perhaps less easy to see from the point of view of looking at the finale in isolation is that the romance couldn't exist without the tactic either. More specifically, their interest in loving each other stems from Will's ability to match Hannibal's cleverness, manipulation, and opportunism with his own. That has been the point of the show from the start, from "You and I are just alike" to "I see myself in Will" to "I don't expect you to feel self-loathing or regret or shame. You knew what you were doing and you made your own decisions, decisions that were under your control.... You found a way to hurt me. I wonder how many more people are going to get hurt by what you do" to "Did you think you could change me, the way I've changed you? --I already did."

All of this is their "zero sum game." It is a cornerstone of their relationship that they each respond to the other's manipulation with manipulation, even when it's blatantly transparent. And that push over the cliff was blatantly transparent. Hannibal didn't fight it, he submitted to it as a kind of weird trust fall that started with the catch and ended with a death. Of a very particular sort.

Is this a rejection? I mean, yeah, sure, by one of way of looking at it. Will is taking their fate in his hands and sentencing them to death, which is definitely not sending the message that he's okay with their mountain of sin and iniquity.

But it's also a marriage, in a Shakespearean kind of way ("All...now marry in an instant"), and also in a Christian way: "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."

I chose that quote because of its direct use of "the Lamb" which the the show instructs us through its title is the lens through which we should view Will's "wrath." Hannibal has already been established in the wife/mother (the woman clothed with the sun) role in the ritual by the Red Dragon, which puts Will in the husband/child role, similar to the dichotomy involving the Christ-child. The show has positioned Will as Christ for at least two seasons at this point, tbf, and in placing Will as Christ, then his sacrifice is by definition born of love. Christ takes human sin on himself to be washed clean through his death for those who believe and submit themselves unto him. For Hannibal this becomes a very literal baptism in the "roiling Atlantic" where "Soon, all of this will be lost to the sea."

So the question then left at the end of the series is not, "Does Will reject Hannibal?" No--he takes Hannibal's sins on himself, as Christ bore humanity's sins on the cross. That has been the story.

The real question is, "How deep and real does Hannibal's baptism go?"

If one views the finale as the definitive end of the show instead of a stepping stone to seasons we'll never get to know (I prefer thinking of it as a stepping stone, to be clear), then I'd say probably the stronger interpretation because of the Biblical undertones and Hannibal's ultimate submission is that dark!Will doesn't win, BUT that Hannigram totally does. And them going to visit some old Testament comeuppance on Bedelia doesn't contradict that.

They called to the mountains and the rocks, 'Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?' Revelation 6:16, 17

WELL, NOT BEDELIA

[damianbugs]

Hi!! First I just wanted to say your fics have been an inspo for me to write my own fics and I enjoy them immensely. Second, I’ve been wandering something and I want to ask something about how Jason Todd is portrayed after his death.

I don’t really understand why so many just kind of lie? Or exasperate who Jason Todd is and isn’t. Like the Cass and Bruce scene in front of Jason’s grave, or that scene in Gotham Knights where Alfred tells Bruce “Jason was determined to disobey him.” I know out of universe it just has to do with the mischaracterization of Jason but I’m having a hard time on finding an in universe explanation. Is it out of guilt? Out of misplaced love? It’s confusing me a bit

first of all, thank you!! i'm so glad i could inspire you that is truly the highest complement i could receive <3

secondly, this is a really interesting discussion! you're right about how in a meta way it's the deeply routed classism in jasons writing, as well as many writers (example: grant morrison) just really hating jason for some reason and doing everything they can to make him absolutely insufferable. not even in a cool evil villain way, but in an embarrassment point and laugh kind of way.

for the purpose of this discussion lets (with much difficulty) ignore the writers predispositions and implications and just focus entirely on what this means for the characters. it's good you mention the cass and bruce at jason's grave scene, because i think that example alone is a good way to deconstruct some of character's (for this post: bruce's) perspective of jason's death.

to summarise before dumping a billion paragraphs developing the point; let's not dance around it and accept that much of people's understanding of jason's death falls into the victim blaming variety, but in such way that the characters don't seem to realise that's how they perceive him, which is almost worse than them purposely retelling it in such a way. as well as that, aside from this indenial misunderstanding of jason, i think this shows the sort of flaws the other characters have.

Detective Comics #790

at first glance this seems like a really touching and emotional moment where bruce is sharing his grief with cass (especially when the entirety of #790 is about bruce struggling to do just that), but then you really read it and you're like what the fuck... why are we standing in front of this kids grave slagging him off? not only are we hearing all of bruce's regrets about how he raised jason as opposed to his son's actual death, but we are dragging steph into this too.

to bruce, jason's death is an accumulation of everything he let the boy get away with finally reaching it's tipping point. that jason's ambition to "prove something" lead to his seemingly inevitable demise.

now i do think it's important to note that WE (the readers) know jason died saving sheila. that despite being beaten, betrayed and left for dead, he tried to save someone and paid the price for it. no one else knows that, because the two people that did are dead. as a result, bruce is left with the facts that;

prior to his death, jason was acting uncharacteristically (<- important point) violent and aggressive towards himself, borderline passively suicidal. bruce himself acknowledges this.

that jason ran away from home in search of someone who may or may not be his mother. this is because losing his parents is a hurt jason has still not healed from and a topic bruce has handled badly in the past (example: willis todd). jason does not trust bruce enough to tell him about this.

once they find his mother, jason is instructed to not get involved in the joker related problem. to the extent of bruces knowledge, jason reveals himself as robin, and decides to get involved despite the instruction not to. either because he again, didn't trust bruce to believe he would handle it, or that jason was trying to prove something to bruce, to sheila, or to himself.

sheila dies, jason dies and bruce is the only one alive from the tragedy with only half the story.

All of this can be found in A Death In The Family, but I don't feel comfortable sharing panels of it given where the story takes place right now.

bruce spends the next few years blaming himself at any given point, but the blame is misplaced. bruce feels as though HIS negligence of JASON'S personality and HIS allowance of JASON'S freedom as robin is what allowed JASON to go and die. instead of seeing what he knows to be true about jason (his empathy, his kindness, his grief and loneliness) bruce can now only see how his allowance of all these things played a part in JASON disobeying him (whether maliciously or not) and dying.

in short, bruce is projecting big time onto his dead kid.

bruce is, as per usual, coping with loss by antagonising it. he did the same with babs, with steph and later on with damian. for a character like batman, who upon failing immediately turns these losses into lessons (for himself and all those forced to comply), it's the only way he seems to 'move on'. if he can understand that jason died because of all the things bruce let him do wrong, then he can convince himself that the guilt he feels for it is necessary. that jasons death is on him and that it mattered.

unfortunately, in order to do that, bruce is indenial about what he LITERALLY KNOWS ABOUT JASON! it's not like he was an absent father to jason in the slightest. but hey, if he can vitiate jason's enthusiasm to help people as jason's impulsiveness to fight (two things that can be true but not in accordance to the context he describes them in), then the blame is on jason for being brash, and on bruce for being lenient.

he shoots jason in the foot and himself in the knee to keep them both down. because, well, jason's dead anyway, and bruce unfortunately isn't. this is the closest thing they'll get to sharing the truth bruce knows he's missing and he knows it's his fault for favouring the mission of his son — so at the expense of jason, bruce lets them both be the lesson to learn from.

it is why jason is used as a cautionary tale, and why bruce is so unstable on allowing people (especially children) into his life emotionally. the second robin is a lesson for any young vigilante eager to join the mission, and batman's part in the death is a lesson for bruce wayne to... be even more emotionally untrustworthy? instructions unclear.

the final part of the grave scene is also important, because bruce is admitting that he is not so different to jason. that "for some of us [Bruce and Cass] there is no turning back". he is projecting these flaws about jason not only because that's the only way he can cope with jason's death, but he is projecting these flaws because regardless of what actually happened, he (and cass) are destined to meet the same fate. jason died for a multitude of reason that bruce may or may not have caused knowingly, and these reasons only exist because bruce knows them to be true in himself and anyone else damaged enough to find themselves on his side of the blurry line.

so, now looking a bit less zoomed in, i think it's unfortunate that jason's time as robin is often perversed by the people who should know better (bruce & alfred), and while it is bad writing on jason's character, it is great writing to show the flaws in the characters around him.

especially how it shows that grief is not always something that can become healed. bruce's guilt about his parents death amounts to something hopeful (batman), but his guilt about jason's death makes bruce cruel and childish.

tldr: no one knows the true story, so they compensate from what they do know — but by doing so they project and misinform existing characteristics of jason in order to compartmentalise the gravity of his tragic death. bruce is unable to cope normally and everyone is forced to follow the same fate, because batman's lessons are rarely wrong, even if they cause ten other problems and misunderstandings to understand.

[rey-jake-therapist]

Warning: this post contains spoilers from the comics The Sandman. I don't know why I bother because these books were written 30 years ago and Google will tell you how it ends in a second, but oh, well, I feel like being nice today.

So many people call Morpheus' death a suicide... And argue that the show should change it, that it should be framed more as an unavoidable sacrifice... Or even "better", changed so it becomes a happy ending.

And good news people! I won't argue with you on that. I'm just posting because I'm wondering: can it be really called a *suicide*? Is it even a death?

Okay, I hear you growl from here. Yeah, I know. Morpheus pretty much dies, he takes his sister's hand and disappears, yada yada. It is a death. Sort of. But then, the Endless are just not... They're not people. They can never die like we die, because they are concepts that wil keep existing as long as there will be living beings who will believe in the existence of these concepts.

So when I see the ending of The Sandman denounced as some sort of glorification of suicide as "the only way out" I humbly wonder if it's not a bit of simplification of what the story has to say, you know? And before my post is taken as a judgement over Sandman fans who feel this way: it's NOT. I actually understand this point of view for the reason that I used to feel that way too. I was terribly tempted by suicide when I was younger, and like an old bad habit it keeps coming back and forth when I'm at lowest; for this reason TKO made me uncomfortable first, and my guts also told me that the show had to, not necessarily change the ending, but at least make Morpheus' death look less like a suicide.

But then I re-read TKO, and I read meta. Doing both made me realize that by sympathizing with Morpheus as if he was a human being, I had forgotten something ESSENTIAL about him: he's not human. And he's not only Morpheus: he's Dream of the Endless before being Morpheus. Morpheus is a persona, more than a person. Therefore I think that his "death" is interpreted wayyyyy to literally by the fandom. Just like the fact that he's "replaced" by Daniel is often interpreted as something negative that implies that Morpheus was not good enough, while I'm convinced it was not at all the intent that Neil Gaiman had in mind.

There's something very important that Dream says at some point: it's that one has to change or die. Morpheus couldn't change, so from his point of view, he had to die. But as I said earlier, Dream as a concept can't die! Of course, he could have chosen like Destruction to abandon his functions, but it's a decision that Morpheus should have taken, and we know he was too binded by the rules and responsibilities to take this decisions. He would have never done that because it was against his nature. Which meant, Dream had to change of persona. Morpheus would die, but Dream would change. And what better to serve humanity, than a being who was as much a human as he was a dream?

We tend to consider Daniel as an entity totally separated from Morpheus, but 1) Daniel was conceived in the Dreaming, making him a part of Morpheus (it's not to be cruel that Morpheus told Lyta her baby was a part of the Dreaming, and that in consequence he would come to take him. He was just stating a fact: everything created in the Dreaming belongs to the Dreaming/him). 2) when Daniel becomes Dream, he doesn't just get a job: all that Morpheus used to be, his family, his memories.... He gets them too.

In conclusion, for me, interpreting Morpheus' death as a suicide is too literal. I think that it's rather a very poetic story that translates the changes that we must all go through at some point in our life, even if it's painful. We, like Dream, must sometimes change our point of view on life, otherwise we will miss what's really important. Sometimes, the change is so big and scary it can feel like a death; the death of what we used to be, the death of childhood, the death of our youth, etc... But it's only a feeling, because like Dream, what we go through is necessary a transformation. We, too, must change.... Or die.

I said in a previous thread that contrary to what is often believed, Morpheus trading his place with Daniel is not a 180° change for Dream: he's the result of a change that started occurring a long time ago. His hair is white because his point of view is new, untainted. He's Dream of the Endless starting anew, but with Morpheus' experience to guide him.

Maybe it's why Morpheus is turned into a star after his death? Is he a guiding star for Daniel!Dream?

Sorry of there's a lot of typos, I may come back to it later for edits but I don't have time now.... I just wanted to say at the end that in my humble opinion, the comics don't spread a bad message that should be changed for the show, because "just kill yourself if you're unhappy" has never been the message of The Sandman. I think however it should be made less confusing than it is for the average viewer, especially since Morpheus!Dream often looks more like a cute blue eyed teenager than like an ethereal immortal being. It's hard to forget he's not "just some lil' guy", so of course his upcoming death will be even harder to stomach...

[thyandrawrites]

how would you feel about a canon divergence last arc where Enji is killed entirely anticlimactically by a horde of Twice clones, Shigafo or even kills himself by overheating?

none of the Todorokis would be happy about it, but his absence in the ending and in Touya's final arc leaves a lot of space for the family members drama/bonding without Enji's atonement arc hogging away all the spotlight.

/thanks for the answer in advance! >o</

hi!

I feel like I should preface this by saying that I hate the guy, so my reply will be biased and not to be taken as objective meta! 

I’ve come full circle about how I feel about Enji dying before the end of the manga. I used to think that him dying in battle before he could make it up to his family would just make him a martyr. But after seeing how Horikoshi made him a martyr anyway while also keeping him alive, I think his death would’ve actually improved things. For one, because as you said, he would be removed from the Todofam plotline, giving the story more room to explore all the povs he overshadows in canon by robbing them of screentime. And this is just my opinion, but I feel like him dying while on the job would’ve given his arc a much more thematically coherent ending too tbh. 

The thing is, until the very end, Enji never delivered on the challenge that the narrative set out for him through Shouto. That is, demonstrating that he can be a father. To do that, the story repeatedly calls attention to how he should stop showing off as a hero and hoping that’s enough for his victims. But that’s a lesson he never accepts. 

You can trace this back in every single one of his pov chapters / introspections. Every time he thinks about how he should be doing right by his family, he always, ALWAYS, refers to himself as Endeavor or mentions his duty as a hero. Up until the end, where his way of owning up to Touya is to almost commit murder-suicide with him so that he can keep… protecting the greater good, I guess. And then when his family shows up and kicks his ass for it, he still doesn’t learn from it. When he visits Touya in the tube, guess what the first thing he mentions is?

as usual, ¾ of his monologue is about how he failed his own vision of how he should’ve acted as a hero, followed by a spiel about the shame he feels over his own shortcomings. None of that ever meant anything to his victims, 

but he always mentions it first. His self-image is always at the forefront of his mind, and it is important to him to always lead with it. That’s cause Endeavor is the persona he created to deal with his guilt as a father. It’s not just his job, it’s a mask he always donned to justify his actions in his head. It is important to him that he atones as Endeavor to his family because he wants to forgive himself for the actions he committed in the name of that hero persona. That’s why he never actually steps up as “just” Enji. 

It’s for that reason, though, that I think a death on the job would’ve been thematically appropriate for his arc. 

Remember how in the lead up to the second war arc, Enji made it a point to ignore not only Touya, but refuse to face Shouto as well until Shouto lured him out with an excuse and confronted him? That shows us how Enji ranks his priorities. Family? Negligible, hard to face. Work? The only thing he’s willing to put any active effort into. The only thing that keeps him functioning, in fact. His only source of escapism from the consequences of his actions. 

Now, if Horikoshi had any backbone as a writer, he could’ve written that to its natural end. If Enji keeps turning down any chance to own up to his shit and give priority to work instead… If he actively chooses to push himself close to death every time in a misguided effort to redeem himself… then that should be his fatal flaw. 

If growth isn’t possible with his unwillingness to face the past, then he should’ve died a tragic death. And by tragic I mean in the sense of greek tragedies. His hubris and inability to change his ways should lead to an eventual downfall caused by his flaws. He wants to prove himself as a hero, even when times and times again he was told and shown that won’t be enough to his family? Good, then let him attempt to fistfight his way to redemption and die pointlessly in that struggle. Imo that would’ve been better than what canon did by letting him have the cake and eat it too. It would’ve also sent a better message, by showing that it was his choices that led to a preventable death. He could’ve done better by his family and gotten to live. Instead, he chooses to persist in his old ways, and the narrative doesn’t give him a free pass for it. This would’ve also tied in very nicely to Shouto’s narrative because Shouto firmly believes in personal responsibility over fate and predestination. If his father had actually suffered any consequences for making the wrong calls in the war arc, then it would’ve brought the story full circle from the question Shouto asked him several arcs prior. 

Endeavor is strong, but how will you atone as a father? 

and the answer would be “he won’t”, because Enji chose not to be a father, but a hero instead. 

Also, Enji dying as a consequence of his choices and not as the outcome of Touya’s actions as a villain wouldn’t have impacted Touya’s own arc, or Touya’s own redeemability in the eyes of both the audience and his family. 

So. I’m not opposed to it. It would’ve been a win win situation honestly. Enji surviving against any logic and staying stagnant until the end for shit and giggles actively makes the story worse. Letting him die a thematically coherent death would’ve been better for all the Todorokis arcs, but it also would’ve made a much more poignant argument about how choices matter. Which, you know. would’ve been a nice way to end a subplot about how a single man’s choices almost led to the downfall of a country.