#Ace Attorney discourse

[alynnl]

Ace Attorney: Investigations 2 and Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney spoilers under the cut.  I found a contradiction!

Let me get this straight.

Raymond Shields was Gregory Edgeworth’s understudy.

At first he was being vague when meeting Miles Edgeworth the first time in a while in Investigations 2.  He speaks in cryptic language and implies that he’s going to “report to ‘that person’ about Miles’s betrayal, following the Von Karma ways.”  Presuming “That Person” is referring to Gregory then we assume at first, that Ray has no idea Gregory is dead.

We dive further into the case, we meet Ray again.

He clearly states that he inherited Gregory’s practice, the Edgeworth Law Offices.  Him and Miles talk about his late father when he mentions this.  Ray actually knows that his mentor is dead after all and has been carrying on his work with the Edgeworth name on the line.

If Raymond Shields knows Gregory Edgeworth is dead...

Does he not know about the DL-6 Incident at all?

Is he not aware that after he was orphaned, Miles was legally adopted by Manfred von Karma and didn’t really have a choice but to become his student?

Adding to that, this was done on purpose to erase any traces of Gregory’s legacy

Where was Raymond at the time Miles was orphaned, and why didn’t he take him in and raise him as a defense attorney to follow closer in Gregory’s footsteps?

Did Raymond not hear about the events of Turnabout Goodbyes, where Manfred von Karma framed Miles for two murders and came very close to getting away with it?

And then there’s the events of Farewell, My Turnabout where Miles says, under oath that his only aim is to find the truth.  (And you can’t tell me that the trial of a celebrity like Matt Engarde didn’t make national, or even worldwide news.)

I suppose my Watsonian (in-universe) question is this: Has Raymond Shields been living under a rock for the past year and then some?

You would have to be, to miss all that!

And my Doylist (meta, out of universe writing) question is this: Why are the writers of later AA games almost allergic to making direct connections to the previous ones?

I don’t speak for every AA player, but I would love to see incidents and events referred to by name and not just “a case I worked on previously.”  Capcom.  You have the power to do this.  You own all the games.  Step up your continuity!

... All this being said, I’m willing to be patient and see if these contradictions are answered for in the narrative of AA: I2.  Despite my long sessions in the game (I think my latest one was an hour and a half today) - I’m still only on the second case, The Imprisoned Turnabout.  This game will be a long runner, a bit like reading a brick of a novel.  But I’ve come too far not to piece together all the lore to see if it fits.

[attorneys-against-court-violence]

Ace Attorney peeps who have played both games

How do we feel about Trials & Tribulations being in non-linear order vs Dual Destinies being non-linear?

[the-bar-sinister]

I saw a post expressing some frustration with the state of f/f shipping in the Ace Attorney fandom, and there are definitely some elements they discussed that I agree with.

While I don't feel that FranMaya is exactly a "crackship" per se, I do agree that it's overly represented given the amount of time that the characters actually spend with one another in canon (which is next to nothing.) The pairing is largely speculative and results from Maya and Franziska being considered as sidekicks to or subcategorized to to their male counterparts, Phoenix and Miles.

It definitely comes off as very "pair the spares" to me– specifically in I feel like the pairing got started more because people ship narumitsu rather than finding Maya and Franiziska as having any chemistry in their own right.

The post I read was unfortunate also correct that a large subsection of the fandom will go off if you do pair either of them with anyone else.  There tends to be a low tolerance in the Ace Attorney fandom in some ways for shipping outside of the main top pairings-- this isn't unique to femlash, people will come at you for the wrong slash pairings, or het pairings also.

Franziska and Adrian Andrews was brought up, which is a pairing that I personally find very compelling, and plan to write more of in the future.

I feel like if Adrian was less of a "one case wonder" and got more screen time that this could have developed into a fairly common pairing.

Another pairing discussed was another favorite of mine, Trucy and Pearl. This particular pairing I think suffers from the heavy infantilization of both the characters.

While in the last game, Trucy is 17 and Pearl is 18, both of them are introduced to the series as children, which I think makes many fans hesitant to write them in any romantic or shippy material.

However, I feel like the best way to combat all of this is the same as combating most fandom problems simply to keep putting the material out there that you want to see, in whatever capacity you enjoy, be that fic, art, edits, meta or just talking about the pairings.

[ennaakat]

[fiveblackpsychlocks]

anyway my controversial ace attorney take is that Phoenix Wright is aromantic and Miles Edgeworth isn't. They are happily married. No, Pheonix's aromanticism does not complicate or dampen said marriage.

[lawyest]

curious since ive seen opinions and evidence on both. this isn’t necesarily about which one you ship or think is better, just which one is (in your opinion) more intended by the creators!

[painted-kneecaps]

i love apollo justice with all my heart but i can’t imagine a guy more likely to say “oh yeah? name three songs 🤨” if he saw you wearing a shirt for a band he liked

[lacystar]

Ace attorney is like if a game introduced the most interesting character dynamics and beats of a relationship you’ve ever seen and then just refused to elaborate on them

[raptorian]

Rarepair I found in an ao3 fic, Sebastian Debeste and Clay Terran. What do you think about it?

Day🌕 31

I don’t really have a strong opinion for 2 reasons. First, I haven’t beaten the second/Apollo’s trilogy yet so I haven’t actually seen anything about Clay Terran beyond a few ao3 fics, so I don’t really have a good gauge on the character. Second, I’m not really into shipping characters in general/rarepairs unless they’re canon or if I just really like the pair (for instance: I like Narumitsu but I’m not really into Franmaya). I usually enjoy platonic relationships a lot more so like with Klavier, I guess I’d just see Sebastian and Terran as friends and nothing more. Thanks for the ask though!

[idiotsonlyevent]

fr tho i do not envy the aai localization team at all . like seeing some of the unironic vitriol for the new names is so 😭 like no one is making you call them eustace or eddie if you don't like it!! but there is a myriad of reasons why the new names were chosen (some of which we can't fully judge until the games are out), and it's fine if you prefer the fan translation/names, but the way some people have been talking about it reminds me of the recent discourse around translation/localization, and i can't help but feel that this is feeding into it somewhat.....

[slident]

I made a bunch of memes for because I was bored, :)

[someoneintheshadow456]

MXTX in basically all her books: The CCP's idea of what it is to be a man - an emotionless machine who only serves the government, is utter rubbish and completely out of touch with traditional Chinese culture. Men throughout our history expressed their emotions and did things the CCP now consider "feminine" and it was and still is completely natural and doesn't make you less of a man.

Shu Takumi when making AA: I have experiences with being accused of things I didn't do from childhood. I wished that I had people who vouched for me and stood by my side when I needed it the most and I wanted to reflect that in the relationship between Phoenix and Miles.

The OP of this poll: So your characters are basically women. Gotcha.

[midgardianqueenreturns]

One of the annoying things about being in a fandom for something that was originally in a foreign language is the amount of fans who just REFUSE to listen when it’s pointed out right in front of them that there was a mistranslation that either explains something or changes context, mostly because the more accurate translation doesn’t support their personal interpretations.

[karuma-meii]

I feel like some ace attorney fans could stand to think about how many of the most beloved characters are at least cop adjacent, if not cops outright. Even a big part of what phoenix does is finding (and thus incarcerating) the real culprit (= the appropriate person to punish under the legal system). Like even if you enjoy the prosecutors (and I do! all my favs are on the prosecution) you should be aware of what system and values are depicted here. Real-life prosecutors ruin people's lives every day.

Just something to keep in mind I guess, especially with the aai port coming soon.

[sirgawainofgalifrey]

are you proship?

Yeah I'd say I am generally. Like I don't subscribe to every ship, but I view it in more of a thought experiment/creative exercise sort of way.

I'll see a ship and be like, "oh, that's cute," or "oh, why does this exist," or "wtf". And then move on.

I do think what we engage with content wise has an effect on us, but that we also have the capacity to be capable of independent logical and moral judgement. A lot of anti shipping is part of the general big push to avoid anything uncomfortable in media. A lot of people don't distinguish between something being presented and something being supported. Which is why bad guys and characters in general have been getting more boring. (See the whole Sokka sexism debacle in the live action atla show).

I also generally believe that people have the ability to exercise reason in terms of what is actual good or bad behavior. The internet can warp our sense of reality but only to the extent that you let it. And if there's lots of weird harem anime and trash tv that's propagating bad things so I do not see shipping as the source of the majority of the bad influence lots of anti's are so worried about. It might be a symptom but it's definitely not the source.

(I also believe most of them just use those ideas to quash anything that disagrees with what they like, by jumping through mind hoops to get it labeled "pedophilia" or "toxic"

*cough* Wrightworth purists *cough)

I like ships because a character's personality and psychology are what I latch onto in a story, and putting them in different relationship contexts (romantic and platonic) let's you study them more.

And in the context of Ace Attorney I don't have a problem with NaruMitsu I just dislike the Wrightworth Purists going scorched earth on everybody else. So that's why I'm generally supporting all the ships they want to eradicate.

Anyway anon you should know better than to ask me simple questions I'm incapable of being concise.

TL;DR I'm a weirdo that likes to dissect emotions and characters under a microscope so yeah I guess I'm pro ship.

[alexis-royce]

This is one of those classic mysteries.