#I LOVE FANDOM CULTURE AND INTERNET FACTS AND AND AND AND

[desire-mona]

can i just say that as a person with a special interest in internet history, "fandom elders" (im talking 10+ years active in a fandom, not calling anyone old lmao) are my most favourite people in the world. i stare wide eyed with wonder and i mean it, you mean to tell me youve been here the entire time as the internet progressed and changed for YEARS? youve seen years of people coming and going and making friends and engaging with this media in so many creative ways and youre still here to see more of it? can you tell me everything ever????????

im rly sad the dps fandom doesnt rly have too many ppl like that tbh, getting my fix from house bloggers who watched it as it released. <- love these guys btw. curse my inability to stay in one fandom for many years *shakes fist* at least i witnessed the very beginning of a good few fandoms (ex. undertale, fnaf, genshin, animation storytime yters, etc)

[caelum-in-the-avatarverse]

Fandom can do a little gatekeeping. As a treat.

So I finally decided to archive-lock my fics on AO3 last night. I’ve been considering it since the AI scrape last year, but the tipping point was this whole lore.fm debacle, coupled with some thoughts I’ve been thinking regarding Fandom These Days in general and Fandom As A Community in particular. So I wanna explain why I waited so long, why I locked my stuff up now, and why I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m a-okay with making it harder for people to see my stories.

Lurkers really are great, tho

I’m a chronic lurker, and have been since I started hanging out on the internet as a teen in the 00s. These days it’s just cuz I don’t feel a need to socialize very often, but back then it was because I was shy and knew I was socially awkward. Even if I made an account, I’d spend months lurking on message boards or forums or Livejournals, watching other people interact and getting a feel for that particular community’s culture and etiquette before I finally started interacting myself. And y’know, that approach saved me a lot of embarrassment. Over the course of my lurking on any site, there was always some other person who’d clearly joined up five minutes after learning the place existed, barged in without a care for their behavior, and committed so many social faux pas that all the other users were immediately annoyed with them at best. I learned a lot observing those incidents. Lurk More is Rule 33 of the internet for very good reason.

Lurking isn’t bad or weird or creepy. It’s perfectly normal. I love lurking. It’s hard for me to not lurk - socializing takes a lot of energy out of me, even via text. (Heck it took 12 hours for me to write this post, I wish I was kidding--) Occasionally I’ll manage longer bouts of interaction - a few weeks posting here, almost a year chatting in a discord there - but I’m always gonna end up going radio silent for months at some point. I used to feel bad about it, but I’ve long since made peace with the fact that it’s just the way my brain works. I’m a chronic lurker, and in the long term nothing is going to change that.

The thing with being a chronic lurker is that you have to accept that you are not actually seen as part of the community you are lurking in. That’s not to say that lurkers are unimportant - lurkers actually are important, and they make up a large proportion of any online community - but it’s simple cause and effect. You may think of it as “your community”, but if you’ve never said a word, how is the community supposed to know you exist? If I lurked on someone’s LJ, and then that person suddenly friendslocked their blog, I knew that I had two choices: Either accept that I would never be able to read their posts again, or reach out to them and ask if I could be added to their friends list with the full understanding that I was a rando they might not decide to trust. I usually went with the first option, because my invisibility as a lurker was more important to me than talking to strangers on the internet.

Lurking is like sitting on a park bench, quietly people-watching and eavesdropping on the conversations other people are having around you. You’re in the park, but you’re not actively participating in anything happening there. You can see and hear things that you become very interested in! But if you don’t introduce yourself and become part of the conversation, you won’t be able to keep listening to it when those people walk away. When fandom migrated away from Livejournal, people moved to new platforms alongside their friends, but lurkers were often left behind. No one knew they existed, so they weren’t told where everyone else was going. To be seen as part of a fandom community, you need to submit to the mortifying ordeal of being known, etc. etc.

There’s nothing wrong with lurking. There can actually be benefits to lurking, both for the lurkers and the communities they lurk in. It’s just another way to be in a fandom. But if that is how you exist in fandom--and remember, I say this as someone who often does exist that way in fandom--you need to remember that you’re on the outside looking in, and the curtains can always close.

I’ve always been super sympathetic to lurkers, because I am one. I know there’s a lot of people like me who just don’t socialize often. I know there’s plenty of reasons why someone might not make an account on the internet - maybe they’re nervous, maybe they’re young and their parents don’t allow them to, maybe they’re in a bad situation where someone is monitoring their activity, maybe they can only access the internet from public computer terminals. Heck, I’ve never even logged into AO3 on my phone--if I’m away from my computer I just read what’s publicly available. 

I know I have people lurking on my fics. I know my fics probably mean a lot to someone I don’t even know exists. I know this because there are plenty of fics I love whose writers don’t know I exist.

I love my commenters personally; I love my lurkers as an abstract concept. I know they’re there and I wish them well, and if they ever de-lurk I love them all the more.

So up until last year I never considered archive-locking my fic, because I get it. The AI scraping was upsetting, but I still hesitated because I was thinking of lurkers and guests and remembering what it felt like to be 15 and wondering if it’d be worth letting a stranger on the internet know I existed and asking to be added to their friends list just so I could reread a funny post they made once.

But the internet has changed a lot since the 00s, and fandom has changed with it. I’ve read some things and been doing some thinking about fandom-as-community over the last few years, and reading through the lore.fm drama made me decide that it’s time for me to set some boundaries.

I still love my lurkers, and I feel bad about leaving any guest commenters behind, especially if they’re in a situation where they can’t make an account for some reason. But from here on out, even my lurkers are going to have to do the bare minimum to read my fics--make an AO3 account.

Should we gatekeep fandom?

I’ve seen a few people ask this question, usually rhetorically, sometimes as a joke, always with a bit of seriousness. And I think…yeah, maybe we should. Except wait, no, not like that--

A decade ago, when people talked about fandom gatekeeping and why it was bad to do, it intersected with a lot of other things, mainly feminism and classism. The prevalent image of fandom gatekeeping was, like, a man learning that a woman likes Star Wars and haughtily demanding, “Oh, yeah? Well if you’re REALLY a fan, name ten EU novels” to belittle and dismiss her, expecting that a “real fan” would have the money and time to be familiar with the EU, and ignoring the fact that male movie-only fans were still considered fans. The thing being gatekept was the very definition of “being a fan” and people’s right to describe themselves as one.

That’s not what I mean when I say maybe fandom should gatekeep more. Anyone can call themselves a fan if they like something, that’s fine. But when it comes to the ability to enjoy the fanworks produced by the fandom community…that might be something worth gatekeeping.

See, back in the 00s, it was perfectly common for people to just…not go on the internet. Surfing the web was a thing, but it was just, like, a fun pastime. Not everyone did it. It wasn’t until the rise of social media that going online became a thing everyone and their grandmother did every day. Back then, going on the internet was just…a hobby.

So one of the first gates online fandom ever had was the simple fact that the entire world wasn’t here yet.

The entire world is here now. That gate has been demolished.

And it’s a lot easier to find us now. Even scattered across platforms, fandom is so centralized these days. It isn’t a network of dedicated webshrines and forums that you can only find via webrings anymore, it’s right there on all the big social media sites. AO3 didn’t set out to be the main fanfic website, but that’s definitely what it’s become. It’s easy for people to find us--and that includes people who don’t care about the community, and just want “content.”

Transformative fandom doesn’t like it when people see our fanworks as “content”. “Content” is a pretty broad term, but when fandom uses it we’re usually referring to creative works that are churned out by content creators to be consumed by an audience as quickly as possible as often as possible so that the content creator can generate revenue. This not-so-new normal has caused a massive shift in how people who are new to fandom view fanworks--instead of seeing fic or art as something a fellow fan made and shared with you, they see fanworks as products to be consumed.

Transformative fandom has, in general, always been a gift economy. We put time and effort into creating fanworks that we share with our fellow fans for free. We do this so we don’t get sued, but fandom as a whole actually gets a lot out of the gift economy. Offer your community a story, and in return you can get comments, build friendships, or inspire other people to write things that you might want to read. Readers are given the gift of free stories to read and enjoy, and while lurking is fine, they have the choice to engage with the writer and other readers by leaving comments or making reclists to help build the community.

And look, don’t get me wrong. People have never engaged with fanfic as much as fan writers wish they would. There has always been “no one comments anymore” wank. There have always been people who only comment to say “MORE!�� or otherwise demand or guilt trip writers into posting the next chapter. But fandom has always agreed that those commenters are rude and annoying, and as those commenters navigate fandom they have the chance to learn proper community etiquette.

However, now it seems that a lot of the people who are consuming fanworks aren’t actually in the community. 

I won’t say “they aren’t real fans” because that’s silly; there’s lots of ways to be a fan. But there seem to be a lot of fans now who have no interest in fandom as a community, or in adhering to community etiquette, or in respecting the gift economy. They consume our fics, but they don’t appreciate fan labor. They want our “content”, but they don’t respect our control over our creations.

And even worse--they see us as a resource. We share our work for free, as a gift, but all they see is an open-source content farm waiting to be tapped into. We shared it for free, so clearly they can do whatever they want with it. Why should we care if they feed our work into AI training datasets, or copy/paste our unfinished stories into ChatGPT to get an ending, or charge people for an unnecessary third-party AO3 app, or sell fanbindings on etsy for a profit without the author’s permission, or turn our stories into poor imitations of podfics to be posted on other platforms without giving us credit or asking our consent, while also using it to lure in people they can datascrape for their Forbes 30 Under 30 company? 

And sure, people have been doing shady things with other people’s fanworks since forever. Art theft and reposting has always been a big problem. Fanfic is harder to flat-out repost, but I’ve heard of unauthorized fic translations getting posted without crediting the original author. Once in…I think the 2010s? I read a post by a woman who had gone to some sort of local bookselling event, only to find that the man selling “his” novel had actually self-published her fanfic. (Wish I could find that one again, I don’t even remember where I read it.)

But aside from that third example, the thing is…as awful as fanart/writing theft is, back in the day, the main thing a thief would gain from it was clout. Clout that should rightfully go to the creators who gifted their work in the first place, yeah, but still. Just clout. People will do a lot of hurtful things for clout, but fandom clout means nothing outside of fandom. Fandom clout is not enough to incentivize the sort of wide-scale pillaging we’re seeing from community outsiders today.

Money, on the other hand… Well, fandom’s just a giant, untapped content farm, isn’t it? Think of how much revenue all that content could generate.

Lurkers are a normal and even beneficial part of any online community. Maybe one day they’ll de-lurk and easily slide into place beside their fellow fans because they already know the etiquette. Maybe they’re active in another community, and they can spread information from the community they lurk in to the community they’re active in. At the very least, they silently observe, and even if they’re not active community members, they understand the community.

Fans who see fanworks as “content” don’t belong in the same category as lurkers. They’re tourists. 

While reading through the initial Reddit thread on the lore.fm situation, I found this comment:

[ID: Reddit User Cabbitowo says: ... So in anime fandoms we have a word called tourist and essentially it means a fan of a few anime and doesn't care about anime tropes and actively criticizes them. This is kind of how fandoms on tiktok feel. They're touring fanfics and fanart and actively criticizes tropes that have been in the fandom since the 60s. They want to be in a fandom but they don't want to engage in fandom 

OP totallymandy responds: Just entered back into Reddit after a long day to see this most recent reply. And as a fellow anime fan this making me laugh so much since it’s true! But it sorta hurts too when the reality sets in. Modern fandom is so entitled and bratty and you’d think it’s the minors only but that’s not even true, my age-mates and older seem to be like that. They want to eat their cake and complain all whilst bringing nothing to the potluck… :/ END ID]

-

“Tourist” is an apt name for this sort of fan. They don’t want to be part of our community, and they don’t have to be in order to come into our spaces and consume our work. Even if they don’t steal our work themselves, they feel so entitled to it that they’re fine with ignoring our wishes and letting other people take it to make AI “podfics” for them to listen to (there are a lot of comments on lore.fm’s shutdown announcement video from people telling them to just ignore the writers and do it anyway). They’ll use AI to generate an ending to an unfinished fic because they don’t care about seeing “the ending this writer would have given to the story they were telling”, they just want “an ending”. For these tourist fans, the ends justify the means, and their end goal is content for them to consume, with no care for the community that created it for them in the first place.

I don’t think this is confined to a specific age group. This isn’t “13-year-olds on Wattpad” or “Zoomers on TikTok” or whatever pointless generation war we’re in now. This is coming from people who are new to fandom, whose main experience with creative works on the internet is this new content culture and who don’t understand fandom as a community. That description can be true of someone from any age group.

It’s so easy to find fandom these days. It is, in fact, too easy. Newcomers face no hurdles or challenges that would encourage them to lurk and observe a bit before engaging, and it’s easy for people who would otherwise move on and leave us alone to start making trouble. From tourist fans to content entrepreneurs to random people who just want to gawk, it’s so easy for people who don’t care about the fandom community to reap all of its fruits. 

So when I say maybe fandom should start gatekeeping a bit, I’m referring to the fact that we barely even have a gate anymore. Everyone is on the internet now; the entire world can find us, and they don’t need to bother learning community etiquette when they do. Before, we were protected by the fact that fandom was considered weird and most people didn’t look at it twice. Now, fandom is pretty mainstream. People who never would’ve bothered with it before are now comfortable strolling in like they own the place. They have no regard for the fandom community, they don’t understand it, and they don’t want to. They want to treat it just like the rest of the content they consume online.

And then they’re surprised when those of us who understand fandom culture get upset. Fanworks have existed far longer than the algorithmic internet’s content. Fanworks existed long before the internet. We’ve lived like this for ages and we like it.

So if someone can’t be bothered to respect fandom as a community, I don’t see why I should give them easy access to my fics.

Think of it like a garden gate

When I interact with commenters on my fic, I have this sense of hospitality.

The comment section is my front porch. The fic is my garden. I created my garden because I really wanted to, and I’m proud of it, and I’m happy to share it with other people. 

Lots of people enjoy looking at my garden. Many walk through without saying anything. Some stop to leave kudos. Some recommend my garden to their friends. And some people take the time to stop by my front porch and let me know what a beautiful garden it is and how much they’ve enjoyed it. 

Any fic writer can tell you that getting comments is an incredible feeling. I always try to answer all my comments. I don’t always manage it, but my fics’ comment sections are the one place that I manage to consistently socialize in fandom. When I respond to a comment, it feels like I’m pouring out a glass of lemonade to share with this lovely commenter on my front porch, a thank you for their thank you. We take a moment to admire my garden together, and then I see them out. The next time they drop by, I recognize them and am happy to pour another glass of lemonade.

My garden has always been open and easy to access. No fences, no walls. You just have to know where to find it. Fandom in general was once protected by its own obscurity, an out-of-the-way town that showed up on maps but was usually ignored.

But now there’s a highway that makes it easy to get to, and we have all these out-of-towner tourists coming in to gawk and steal our lawn ornaments and wonder if they can use the place to make themselves some money.

I don’t care to have those types trampling over my garden and eating all my vegetables and digging up my flowers to repot and sell, so I’ve put up a wall. It has a gate that visitors can get through if they just take the time to open it.

Admittedly, it’s a small obstacle. But when I share my fics, I share them as a gift with my fellow fans, the ones who understand that fandom is a community, even if they’re lurkers. As for tourist fans and entrepreneurs who see fic as content, who have no qualms ignoring the writer’s wishes, who refuse to respect or understand the fandom community…well, they’re not the people I mean to share my fic with, so I have no issues locking them out. If they want access to my stories, they’ll have to do the bare minimum to become a community member and join the AO3 invite queue.

And y’know, I’ve said a lot about fandom and community here, and I just want to say, I hope it’s not intimidating. When I was younger, talk about The Fandom Community made me feel insecure, and I didn’t think I’d ever manage to be active enough in fandom spaces to be counted as A Member Of The Community. But you don’t have to be a social butterfly to participate in fandom. I’ll always and forever be a chronic lurker, I reblog more than I post, I rarely manage to comment on fic, and I go radio silent for months at a time--but I write and post fanfiction. That’s my contribution.

Do you write, draw, vid, gif, or otherwise create? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you leave comments? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you curate reclists? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you maintain a fandom blog or fuckyeah blog? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you provide a space for other fans to convene in? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you regularly send asks (off anon so people know who you are)? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you have fandom friends who you interact with? Congrats, you're a community member.

There’s lots of ways to be a fan. Just make sure to respect and appreciate your fellow fans and the work they put in for you to enjoy and the gift economy fandom culture that keeps this community going.

[olderthannetfic]

Not gonna lie, sometimes being a writer in my native language feels... isolated and alienating. However not in the 'AO3 stats be low and less than English ones' that maybe one could thought of it at first, no, I know what I am doing writing and posting my non-English fanfics on AO3. I have really good friends and a minor readership that I love.

The isolation and alienation comes from people hating their own native languages and being so vocal (almost proud with others encouraging them) about it. Bet I am not the only who has see this. And I am sorry, but that just feel like hot bullshit. Why do you hate your own language that much? Why do you praise/treat like a better language English and English alone? Why do you say 'ew, a fanfic in my native language!" like that is a completely normal thing to say? I try to come with responses and their logic that aren't plain linguistic colonialism, but I can't. It feels alienating because I see it so. freaking. much. In Tumblr, in Discords, in Reddit, in Twitter, everywhere! Sometimes I have my lows and think 'man am I the wrong here? should I despise my own language, my own (literature) culture? everyone does it'. I respond with a 'no' obviously, since I keep writing in my native language and encourage everyone who approachs me to do it. That still doesn't erase the fact that seeing 'ew fics in my native language sucks!' comments in the wild are pretty demotivating and, to be quite honest, shitty, even if the people doing them aren't from my country.

This kind of feels like a consequence of how... imperialist (for a lack of a better word, sorry) the Internet has become in the past few years. Rather, the whole world, yes; and the Internet is just a part of it so of course fandom got affected by it. If it got affected by this puritanical, bigoted and radfem-y viewpoints, it was just a matter of time for this issue ('fics in English are superior/better in general/better to write/better to got numbers') to chime in. Damned 'globalization'. It was so fast.

--

I hate it. I hate it so much. It's been constant for decades (with the exception of a few languages like Mandarin). English isn't special! Whatever century's trade language can reach more people, but that's it: it isn't more beautiful, historic, nuanced, interesting, worthy, whatever.

And god is English not less cringey and terrible when it comes to words for dicks or squelchy sex noises or whatever else people find terminally embarrassing to write about. We native speakers had to get over it in order to write. Native speakers of anything can do the same!

Though, yes, Arabic-speaking anon from last time, I grant you that some languages' speakers are going to have to invent a whole new era of writing in the vernacular. Go forth. Write your Canterbury tales if that's what it takes.

[makiquas]

Its Butchtober. Bear with me for a second as I rant about children's cartoon ships, butchphobia, the conditional acceptance of butches in sapphic spaces on the basis of desirability, and feeling erased as a butch kid.

It's so funny that I realised early on as a 2000-2010s teen/kid how a lot of so called "sapphics" of social media are really, really anti butch4butch, only by interacting with certain subsets of Catradora and Appledash haters. It may be flippant to connect butchphobia with children's cartoons, but you cannot deny it is there. We finally had two canon butch4butch and masc4masc lesbian animated ships. And the fandoms decided that the best possible reaction to this is to violently hate on the ships for bullshit reasons and write up masterdocs about how the butch character actually looks better with a femme character instead (in both cases–Rarity and Glimmer, who is arguably feminine but not femme, but that's a conversation for another day, how the SPOP fandom waters down gender identities for aesthetics).

This is not just about two cartoon ships; this mindset of seeing two masc lesbians and immediately going "actually they act like bros; but this BUTCHFEMME couple has real chemistry" comes off sounding really, really bad in 2024 when you have no idea how butch identity operates, outside of depicting us as pants-wearing sexually aggressive muscular women. Butches ARE bros, even the ones who kiss each other. Camaraderie and tomboyish swagger *is* a part of their life. It's not our fault you are too fanfic trope-pilled to read these interactions are sexless friendship bantering.

It's also quite concerning, given how there are only a handful of butch4butch books in the market, and almost all of them talk about the stigmatizing of relationships between two butches/studs/masc lesbians. There are many butch lesbians who themselves face internalized butchphobia because of societal standards and expectations of being turned into the "gallant" provider of femmes. Butch and femme are not always inherently complementary, butches can be attracted to other butches, there is no "natural order" model of lesbian/sapphic attraction and your thinly veiled butchphobia is really off-putting, given you guys don't seem to extend that same rhetoric to mascfemme ships like Korrasami or Caitvi, or femme-femme ships like Harlivy.

Here, I must mention relationships like Rei and Kaoru from Oniisama E, or Jess and Lupe from A League of Their Own, who have bucket loads of chemistry but still have some vehement antis only because both the lesbians are masculine. (What's funny is the new wave of lesbian Oniisama E fans are almost all Rei/Kaoru shippers despite the show putting them into two butchfemme pairings.) Something something to be butch4butch is to be failing the tests of palatability and desirability according to conventional models of societal norms. Forever.

Again, one may have valid reasons for disliking these fictional ships (what, I genuinely don't know). But it *is* weird that you guys can watch fifty white fem4fem sapphic shows in a year and read 100+ GL with the same feminine girlish blonde and brunette/pink haired archetype and not bat an eyelid, but conjure a world of made-up "platonic" dynamics just because you read every butch4butch interaction as fundamentally platonic.

A lot of you love to throw around Stone Butch Blues as a catchphrase to educate strangers on the internet about 1950s-70s blue-collar bar culture and USA butch femme history, but how many of you actually know that within the book itself, the lead character acts prejudiced and hates on another butch for being butch4butch? How many of you know that she apologizes to her friend at the end for her hateful remarks? Fun fact: when you ostracize a butch for not fitting into your butch-femme subculture aesthetic, you're no better than lesbiphobic bigots actually.

Anyway, here are some butch4butch resources if you are a baby butch4butch and feel alienated by these kinds of weird rhetoric in online and fandom queer spaces too:

Butch4Butch romance books

My Butch4Butch books masterdoc (**being updated regularly**)

Leo Wilder's Butch4Butch writing (18+)

Butch4Butch photography archive (insta)

Boyish² Butch4Butch yuri anthology (insta)

@milsae Butch4Butch artist (tumblr/insta)

This post is made by a trans masc butch of color. Terfs, racists, biphobes and radfems kindly do not derail or interact.

[grimeerie]

If Enigma of Fear comes this month,i am praying for this game to be absolulety marketed fucking EVERYWHERE online,cause not only Ordem is such a amazing project that deserves so much recognition,but being a fully brazilian/latino-made TTRPG,the idea of this series becoming worldwide-known means so much personally as a brazilian artist.

I've mentioned this on a post before,but the experience of growing up as a latine being constantly fed white american-centric pop culture,be it comics,TV series,movies,art in general,to such a extreme point it made me develop such high insecurity in my country's art and culture as a whole,is so deeply harmful that even after leaving that toxic mindset,that insecurity still lingers on.

And it's why Ordem as a project is just so beautiful as an rpg to me,like the campaign main setting? All brazilian cities! The characters? Brazilians from different parts of the country all speaking in the accent and slang of their state or city! The players? Brazilians! The promotional art,the music,the boards,the tokens? ALL BRAZILIAN MADE. Like this project in so unashamedly Brazil and that makes me love every bit of bit.

Even though the gringo side of the Ordem fandom may still be somewhat small,the ammount of love i've seen you all have for this project is so big; all of the fanart,fics,headcanons,every single form of appreciation has just been so good. Know that regardless of what you may think about the quality of your contribution to this fandom know that to me and so many other brazilian,your love for this series means a lot to us. The hype for Enigma of Fear has been wonderful to see,and DESERVED CAUSE THE GOD THE GAME LOOKS FANTASTICAL AND DUMATIVA PUT THEIR WHOLE DUMATUSSY FOR 4 YEARS INTO THAT GAME AND THEY DESERVE THE RESPECT FOR IT-

BUT ALSO i want to shoutout the QSMP fandom as well,cause y'all are insane fr,seeing people love the same CCs i've watched and loved since my childhood,the fandom interacting with us Brazilian ??? Learning about our culture???? LEARNING TO SPEAK PORTUGUESE???

Sorry for the ramble but like- the whole learning portuguese part still makes me so happily feral cause as someone who grew up on Internet fandom spaces,having to learn english on my own to be able to interact with others,especially english being the main language in most internet spaces,THE FACT THE INVERSE IS HAPPENING LIKE WHAT?? Serioulsly,the dedication man! That is awesome!!

Legitimately i don't think there's enough words to describe the appreciation i have for yall,so basically: thank you all,so much,for giving us so much love this past year,and i hope if Ordem does become big enough out there,that more brazilian art to come gains as much love as this one,we are such a diverse country with so much to offer,and im am so glad to be born to such a colorful and crazy country <3

In general i hope this will be an encouragment for all to support non-white american centric art in general,there's so much art from other countries to love and appreciate,that desperately need it.

So basically: Watch Ordem Paranormal,and play Enigma of Fear when it comes out. It's RPG,it's story,characters,worldbuilding are fantastic,its horror,found family,comedy and deliciously SOUL-CRUSHING angst. Trust me,you won't regret it.

É ORDO REALITAS CARALHO!

[centrally-unplanned]

IRL (In Real Life) - Buffydom Propaganda And The Internet-That-Was

It is 1997. You just got back from the latest Hot Topic run to restock on whatever the most raven-black bomb of Manic Panic they have on the shelves is, so you can do double-duty bleaching your hair in the shower while watching a CRT TV precariously mounted on the lip of your sink. On that TV is the Season 1 finale of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and you are obsessed. Unfortunately for you, no one else in Bowling Green, Ohio, shares your passion for a CW WB show about vampire hunting teens who purposefully fumble their line deliveries. You are alone, and you have shit you gotta say about it to someone, anyone, who will understand.

Fortunately for you, the marketing team at ye old WB anticipated that their audience would be a bunch of fucking nerds, and boy do they have a solution to your problem! Welcome to the Bronze:

A while back I stumbled upon the inexplicable existence of "IRL (In Real Life)", a 2007 documentary about the community that formed around the aforementioned Buffy fan discussion forum/chatboard. Officially running from around the launch of the show until it switched over to UPN after its fifth season (with the forum dying a dramatic death in the process), The Bronze was a highly active center for the Buffy fandom, which generated several spillovers into real life. In particular, it was famous for the creatives and even actors on the show occasionally posting on the forum, which culminated in members of the community organizing a yearly party in Los Angeles where posters would fly out and be joined by said cast and crew. This documentary charts its culture & history via interviewing an array of its members.

As always, I am not here to give the blow-by-blow; instead, what is the narrative this documentary is trying to sell?

My previous documentary write-up was about nerd culture in the 2010’s; newly ascendant, growing confident in its own values and looking to justify that to itself, wealthy and with a developed enough ecosystem for crowdfunding to create professional, polished documentaries of its own heroes. None of that is true for IRL. Filmed on whatever camcorder/potato hybrid proto-Ebay would cough up from its zero-bid listings in a series of hotel rooms and people’s living rooms in 2003-2004 after the forum had died, this is the era of nerd culture at its most conflicted and insecure; mocked by the mainstream and unsure if it should be proud of that fact or deeply ashamed of it. And this documentary wears this conflict right on its sleeve; one of its opening lines is a confident assurance to the audience of “don’t worry, we aren’t like those nerds”:

Throwing Trekkies under the bus in the process, cold! Particularly given how it proceeds to barely even blink before pivoting to explaining their hobby of running “WITTs”, multi-day-long collaborative roleplays:

You are exactly those Trekkies my dudes; you weren’t just at the devil’s sacrament you were hosting it! "WITT" stands for Whedon Improvisational Theatre Troupe, you can't recover from that guys.

(I love how “dozens” is large by the way - it was for the internet in 2001, right?)

Anyway, beyond documenting the forum and its members, the conclusion this documentary wants you to hold is that the Bronze was a special place of real community, and it is a community of “normal” people, who made real relationships. And in particular, that internet relationships can be just as real as those found in meatspace, that these relationships transcended the digital and entered the physical; and that this is what fandom can be about.

I want to start with the ways that narrative was correct within the context of the time. I can actually explain that Klingon comment! I have one extant interview with the director of the film, Stephanie Tuszynski, and she put her motivation as follows: 

FFN: What made you decide to study Buffy fandom, particularly the Bronze, for your documentary? ST: The idea to do a documentary film about the Bronze actually came to me very early on, because "Trekkies" came out in the late 1990s so I was already a Bronzer at that point. And when I saw it I started throwing things at my television. I was incensed. That wasn't a documentary about the fandom experience, it was "hey let's find the most extreme examples possible and have a freak show!" It infuriated me […] It reinforced every awful stereotype about media fans while purporting to be objective.

It wasn’t a random example - the 1997 documentary Trekkies set the “standard” view of fandom as extremist oddballs, and Tuszynski specifically wanted to counter that. It was the early 2000’s after all, nerd stereotypes were strong, you had to fight them explicitly! In a society where there is strong background hostility to one’s identity, you will attempt to normalize it using known reference points; and certainly the people on these forums were more “normal” than the stereotypes admitted to because that entire binary framework is a dead end.

More importantly to the narrative is the online aspect, “making friends on the internet”. Another find I have is a blog post from a professor who used the film in a class; and in the film’s narrative of “people with no one ‘irl’ to share their hobby with finding friends online” triggered a debate around if the online relationships are “taking away” from in-person relationships that are presumed to be more valuable. A debate that still rages to this day over social media! But the contours were different back then, the internet was presumed to be niche, ancillary, and relationships made online in a completely separate box from “in person” friendships. The documentary goes to great lengths to explain that they were a real community because that idea is so contested. Ironically, they do this by emphasizing that they met up in person, hung out, attended each other's weddings, etc; as if only by meeting up in person could the relationships be validated as real? But you can’t truly fault them for meeting their implicit critics halfway in making their case.

So what can I fault them for?

*****

I was perpetually amused when watching the doc that they included two married couples in the filming, and for both one of the spouses would talk and the other would sit there, in silence, the entire time. Maybe they were members of the community and just not talkers; maybe their lines got cut in post. But what I kept thinking was that they were there selling normality to me; married couples are just inherently less oddball, less threatening, and in the era where “nerd = virgin” just less nerdy. Like with the Klingon line, there is an intentionality to the “just like you” vibe.

Which, as mentioned with the extensive forum roleplay, inevitably breaks down once the reality of forum activity is dug into. And I buried the lede here - you may have seen the title of the “longest” roleplay was “RTBS Soul Restoration Project”, but what does that mean? RTBS was a forum member’s name, and well:

Oh yeah, we are saving our friend from “a fate worse than death: worshiping Britney Spears” - welcome to 2001 baby! This is peak “nerd wars” stuff, the normies hate our shit so we hate the normie shit right back. Which is exactly how nerd culture was in the 2000's. I am not at all throwing shade at their tongue-in-cheek roleplay, resplendent in the ludicrously purple prose and asterisk-laden action descriptions as required by the early internet; but it sits in clear tension with some of the other messaging in this film. Leave Britney alone guys!

The documentary highlights a number of common practices from the forum - people doing daily greetings, the way that it being one unending massive chain of posts with no threading or topics meant people would mass-tag individual people to respond to and form “circles” that way - but there are things it leaves out. I did what any normal person would do after watching this documentary and read through over a year of archived posts on The Bronze to understand the community - but man did I not have to, as on literally the first page of my archived link I see:

And through God’s good grace that second link is archived:

Yes there are pictures at the link, and yes later on it does compare Buffy’s cleavage to the Mona Lisa. (The Giles link is not quite functional, but I was able to find it; sadly it is not nearly as thirsty)

I also found these “onboarding” sites for new members. Remember, this forum was the official forum, which meant there were no community mods or ability to “pin rules”, it was pure anarchy - so advice filled the gaps. And one of the bigger ones, in its *sighs and rubs forehead* blue font on black background, warns against “hottie posting” aka talking about how hot say Angel is, not because it isn’t allowed, but because it is like “pointing out the sky is blue” - it is so common that it will just get washed out.

It might seem like a similarly sky-is-blue comment to note that this forum was heavily about shipping, hotness discussion, fanfiction, and the like. Of course it was, right? These website “senior members” were trying to minimize it, police it, but it broke through constantly and also simmered under the surface through discussions and RP’s from my own review of the forum. The documentary, however, spends incredibly little time on it. Brief mentions of Angel fics, and no mention (iirc) of discussion of how hot the women were at all. Because once again those details really don’t fit into the narrative it is trying to sell.

At one point in the documentary someone notes how diverse all the friends they met in this community were? Which I broke out laughing over. In one way it is not wrong, I get it! Midwest college kids meeting people from all over the country, ages 40 to 14, talking about something no one in their podunk town understands. But on the other hand, you could not come up with a more standardized slice of humanity if you tried to rig it. Everyone here is an American+ with computer access in 1998, it is a grab bag of sys admins, nerd creatives, and comp sci majors.  I did a random sampling googling the people interviewed to see what they are up to now, and literally a third of them are librarians. Even their fashion is like God played a prank on this director; not even a 2000’s anime con panel lineup is this stereotypical in the combinations of alt-goth lit girls and nerdcore computer bros.

The evolutionary process of joining this forum -> liking it enough to go to the live meetups -> liking that enough to participate in a documentary about it was a pressure cooker spitting out only a certain kind of person. Which is truly fascinating to see on display! This is the internet-that-was; and it bleeds through the grainy film despite the director’s efforts at times to the contrary.

Though even then it was only a very specific slice of the internet-that-was, because this is a very special breed of Online; namely, the professionals.

*****

Something that is decidedly not typical of The Bronze as an online community is that, as mentioned before, Joss Whedon and other creatives posted on the web forum, answering questions and also just playing around, and how that led to in-person parties where both forum members and cast/crew attended - the Posting Board Parties, or PBP’s. At these they hosted fundraisers, talked about the show, and in the documentary one girl reverently describes with incredible Repressed Lesbian Energy her experience of seeing Eliza Dushku dancing next to her. The PBP had a panel of party organizers, admission systems to keep out the “undesirables”, budgets, the works.

All this the documentary shares openly; it is a peak moment where the digital becomes real in a transcendent way, opening doors analog reality never could. It is also a cold-sweat-waking nightmare story from the lens of a modern Hollywood social media manager; one person in the documentary tells the tale of how one time lead actress Allyson Hannigan posted her phone number on the forum asking people to leave her cute voicemails. The person in question immediately called, and got Hannigan herself instead of the voicemail, so they chatted for a bit (The guy telling this tale is obviously lovestruck; his wife is sitting in typical silence next to him). Today this would be a code-red, nuke your phone situation; but the circle was so cloistered, and the rules so unwritten, that no one cared in these early years.

What they share less openly is all the drama that went into this event. They wax nostalgic about how the parties brought them together, but what isn’t mentioned is the church schism it caused, as the moment cast from the show started attending the party it got mobbed by outsiders. By its ~3rd year there were approximately 400 guests but only ~50 or so were from the forum. They had a huge fight about it, the head of PFP planning committee - “Morbius the Vampire”, who was later jailed for financial fraud btw - told the dissenting faction why don’t they just throw their own party if they hate his so much, and so they did. There was more fighting about it, and eventually they held a peace summit at an LA joint called Mel’s Diner to merge the two factions together. (My source for this is a book, which I will link later)

Hilarious, for sure, but while so much of what we have discussed is “proto online nerd communities”, this part is most decidedly not. The typical web forum absolutely cannot replicate the experience of roleplay-posting your way into shaking hands with Joss Whedon and having a shitfight over party budgets in LA. But most posters never got to attend these parties, of course, this didn’t mean much to them. While for those who did, you cannot help but imagine that this played a gigantic role in making them all become a “real” community. And care enough about that circle to, well after the forum was gone, schlep to a hotel room to be interviewed for a documentary about it. Participating in a documentary is always, in some way, an exercise in selection bias; but here the pruning is turned up to 11 - this is a very elite slice of a very unique fandom experience.

*****

I have one deeper level to go on this thread, somewhat buried in time today, that further shaped the participants here: “Whedon Studies”. The 2000’s was not the birth of media studies as an academic discipline; but it was the birth of fandom-driven media studies, and Buffy was nearly unassailably the leading light of that movement. Academics hosted entire conferences (and inexplicably still do!) on Buffy, Firefly, etc; almost all from the lens of gender & media, as Buffy’s brand was deeply entrenched in that deconstructive milieu. This movement would die a fiery death during the 2010’s shift in media & gender politics, and when the controversies around the toxic working conditions on the set of Buffy/Angel led to Joss Whedon’s near-total expulsion from creative pursuits. The whole edifice is, in a deep way, “cringe” for many of its former participants today.

But what is relevant for our story is that director Stephanie Tuszynski was a full member of that movement; while composing this film she was, for example, giving talks like these at conferences devoted to the Buffyverse:

God that is a lot of talks. This film itself was her thesis project for her I believe philosophy masters, and in our scant interviews lists other fandom-academic film projects she wanted to tackle (which as best I can tell fizzled out later). And the interview subjects were often participants in the same space as well! Academic-types doing media studies with a Buffy bent, or things like culture writers for new media outlets. One of them, writer Allyson Beatrice, even published a book about the Buffy fandom that was in regular bookstores:

To quote the blurb:

A hilarious collection of true stories from Allyson's days as one of the Internet's leading cult TV fan gurus, her mind-boggling escapades include meetings with network executives in dark steakhouses to try to save doomed TV shows and one hastily arranged wedding for two committed Buffy fans. 

I highlight this not to say that academics cannot make documentaries, they certainly can. What I am saying is that if you point your camera at career Buffyverse writer Allyson Beatrice, and label her as a typical forum member giving you the hometown everygirl perspective on the community, you are, however unintentionally, lying to your audience. In its quest to give you the just-like-me Buffy fandom experience, what this documentary elides is that it is often giving you the lens of people who are fans of Buffy as a career. Those people are going to be bringing very different experiences to the table - of course they are concerned with sanitization, with nerd culture debates, the works. That is their bread-and-butter trade.

This dynamic bled into the forum’s day-to-day; there was a very clear hierarchy of “veterans” and “top” posters, who organize the live parties, have deep roots in the community, and even the ear of the show team...and everyone else. Particularly because as mentioned there were no rules on the forum, but since that can’t actually function in practice they self-generated community rules and thus their own leadership class. Cliques and groups were common and named, and veteran posters even had formally designated groupies:

I had also by this time become a groupie. I so enjoyed one particular Bronzer’s posts that she allowed me to become the seventh of her groupies. It was through groupie-dom that I got my first taste of firsthand WITT: several Bronzers, on the occasion of the birthday of she-to-whom-we-group, each took turns grabbing the microphone and praising the day that she was born. In retrospect, I’m not sure why we did this. But it was fun, and very funny, too, as we each took turns waxing melodramatic off the top of our heads. And from work, no less.

The source for this by the way is a 400 page ethnography of The Bronze posted by academic who did *cough* “field research” there; I am sure their membership in the “Bronzers Adoring Darla” fangroup was purely for comprehensive data collection purposes.

And to emphasize, I am not saying this is problematic or anything - the groupie things were all in good fun, best I can tell. I simply aim to showcase how the Bronze wasn’t just a baby version of online fandom forum dynamics; but also a baby version of e-celebrity mechanics. Something the documentary does not even attempt to touch on because that would be something normal people would not understand.

*****

All of the above may have come off like one big roast, and it is a little bit, but as I have mentioned before every documentary is propaganda. It is just impossible to have a tight film building a narrative out of the pieces of letting people speak to the camera without that narrative being but a slice of the truth those people want you to know. The Bronze web forum was a very special place to these highly invested fans, and this documentary is not lying to you about that.

But it is also a big part of early internet fandom! The Bronze was famous at the time, and it is right there at the beginning of so many shifts; the first generation of non-technical internet users, a new era of ‘fantasy’ media with the trappings of prestige and social critique, a boom in critique-as-community, and more. I very much want the full picture of that community; who made it up, what did they want from it and what did they get from it, and so on. No film could offer the full picture; this film’s homebrew rawness gives a valuable piece of it, and I enjoyed it for that. I just aimed here to draw out not only what the broader, more accurate dynamics of The Bronze were, but also the cultural question of why the film focuses on what it does, hides what it refuses to show, and what that says about 2000’s internet & nerd culture. Hopefully I succeeded in that.

And also to have fun looking at some incredibly dated Buffy fandom bullshit. May it have been fun for you too! {hugs you and waves goodbye}

[callmebrycelee]

Advice from a Queer Almost-40 BuckTommy Shipper

Over the last several months, there's been a one-sided war brewing between Buddie shippers and BuckTommy shippers. As we get ready for Season 8, I want to give all of you fellow BuckTommy/Tevan/Kinley shippers some advice:

Do NOT let them ruin something truly groundbreaking and special.

I repeat:

Do NOT let them ruin something truly groundbreaking and special.

Let me take you way back to the early-2010s. Glee was quite popular in the cultural zeitgeist. The show spawned a plethora of ships including Finchel, Brittana, Samcedes, and Fabrey. However, there was one ship that reigned supreme on Beyoncé and Al Gore's internet. If you were on Tumblr during this time you definitely remember the chokehold Kurt Hummel and Blaine Anderson aka Klaine had on the Glee fandom.

Now I'll admit, at first, I was into the two glee club gays being together but then episode 2x06 aired. For those of you unfamiliar with the show, episode 2x06 titled "Never Been Kissed" is episode where closeted football jock Dave Karofsky cornered Kurt in the boys' lockerroom and kissed him. What followed was some of the best storytelling in the history of the show.

Over the next few seasons, we watched Dave Karofsky come to terms with his sexuality, apologize to Kurt for his relentless bullying, finally embrace his sexuality, get outed, and attempt to un-alive himself. Those of us who initially hated Dave and his initial treatment of Kurt became fans of him due to how realistic he was. If you went to high school in the early-2000s, chances are you either knew someone like Karofsky or you were him. That's why he resonated with so many of us in the queer community.

However, the showrunners weren't invested in Dave and Kurt becoming an item. You have to remember, this was the era of listening to the fandom and giving them exactly what they wanted. The fandom wanted Rachel and Finn to be together so that's what we got. The fandom wanted Brittany and Santana to be together so that's what we got. And what the fandom wanted was Kurt and Blaine.

Till this day, I still resent the fact that the showrunners and writers went the safe route when it came to couples on Glee. For the most part, all of their main pairings were expected and boring. Over a decade removed from the show, a lot of folks have come around to the idea that maybe Kurt and Blaine aren't the #couplegoals they initially thought. A lot of us will forever wonder just how different (and possibly better) the show would have been if they took a chance on Kurt and Dave.

Fast-forward to the year 2024. We have, on another Ryan Murphy show, Klaine and Kurtofsky 2.0. The moment Eddie came on the scene back in Season 2, folks on the internet started shipping him with Buck. Nevermind that these two were coded as platonic friends, here we had, once again, two good-looking guys played by two actors who have impeccable chemistry.

Much like Klaine, a lot of us see Buddie as boring. The ship smacks of cis straight women overlly fascinated by two good-looking, masculine guys. It reminds me of the overabundance of m/m romance written by straight women which have little interest in showcasing real queer male relationships and instead serve as fantasy fulfillment for straight women using two queer men as avatars to satisfy what they feel is lacking in their own heterosexual relationships. I don't necessary have a problem with those books existing but I do take issue with that kind of storytelling overshadowing queer male content written by queer male writers.

Whew! Now that I got that out of my system, let me tell you what I loved most about the latest season of 9-1-1. It seems the showrunners and writers of this show took note of what happened with Glee and they decided to go a different route. Instead of listening to the relentless noise on the internet, they have decided to not go the safe route.

Enter: Tommy Kinard.

The romance between Buck and Tommy is truly revolutionary. As someone who grew up consuming the queer media of the 90s and early-2000s, it is quite refreshing to have a couple like Evan Buckley and Tommy Kinard on primetime television. I love that many of the scenes between these two is just slice of life. Very similar to the scenes we get between Athena and Bobby and Chimney and Maddie. I've always said that true equality is when queer people can be just as mundane as straight people. Mission accomplished. Finally, we have two queer characters just existing and being happy. No AIDS. No gay-bashing. No Don't Ask Don't Tell. No epic coming out scene. Buck and Tommy are a shining example of what queer couples can and should look like in the 2020s.

So, back to my original point. When it comes to the great ship war, please do NOT let them ruin something so groundbreaking and special. If the showrunners wanted , they could have made Buck and Eddie a thing years ago. However, that's not the direction they wanted to venture. Thank you Tim Minear for not going the safe route. I look forward to all of the rich storytelling we will get in Season 8 and I have decided that whatever happens, I'm going to enjoy this era of 9-1-1. Oliver Stark and Lou Ferrigno Jr. are amazing actors but so are Angela Bassett and Peter Krause and Aisha Hinds and Kenneth Choi. All of the actors on this show, whether main or guest or supporting, are putting their whole self into crafting the characters we know and love. Regardless of what ship you champion, keep in mind that behind these beloved characters are real, human actors who do not deserve to be bullied and harrassed and threatened due to them simply doing their job. At the end of the day, everything we see on the screen is fiction.

Okay, this has gotten really long. Stepping off of my soapbox. Remember ladies and gentlemen, it's just a show. And although it makes us feel real emotions, 9-1-1 nor Glee is real life.

[sadsittles]

Deadpool oc, Kittypool! :D

Her story in short:

Was a regular streamer on twitch / YouTube, continuity stuff happens and she gets cancer. She goes on the deep web to find a solution, more continuity stuff and she gets puts in the tube where it accelerates her cancer.

She’s obviously pissed, but can’t do much, though she plans her revenge, etc.

She goes back home and realizes that she can’t do her face cam streams anymore because of haters who would ruthlessly attack her appearance. So to avoid that, she debuts as a Vtuber, her fans don’t know about what happened to her.

Her avatar is this cute little cat girl thing, which ends up becoming her mercenary/deadpool costume later on!

She becomes a mercenary because of stuff she notices in her stream chat, one of the audience members shares the same name to a dude who’s tied to the experiments they did on her. She gets so pissed, she ends up secretly doxxing (we’re going there 😭😭) the dude to find his location. She then wreaks havoc on the dude, trying to find the others, etc.

She goes through finding what kind of costume she’s gonna hide herself, then settles on choosing her Vtuber model because it’s already designed.

And that’s essentially all I have for her now, it’s just a bunch of continuity stuff of the Deadpool timelines, etc. Oh, she’s also in the spiderverse / animated multiverse!

Some fun facts:

Her viewers call her the “Internet’s cutest mercenary” or “Kitty of Death” (smth edgy like that! 😭)

She loves the Internet (a little bit too much) and she’s obsessed with views and followers. She once considered to live stream her ending a dude for views ☠️☠️

She’s pretty knowledgeable about the Internet culture, she if she breaks the fourth wall it’s mainly about memes, fanfiction, fandom, etc. a whole list of stuff!

Her favorite Sanrio character is Chococat!

[lacesoflove]

guess who’s back on tumblr after trying to unalive themselves 😍 i don’t really wanna talk about my absence and go into the depths of the reasoning why, so i’ll just talk about why this account was made - which was for hamzah and slushy noobz. i want to have my own little thinkpiece on the match as well as my place in the slushy community moving forward

i want to say the match and the production is the reason why i love them soo much. they have such an ability of creating cinema with their videos, hence why one of my favourite video from them is the camping video (i tend to watch this video more for comfort rather than for humour though) – and there’s an immense amount of payoff as a viewer watching their content, you can see all the layered inside iokes (i.e having aldo, and nettspend’s producers) and internet jokes culminate in something so carefully crafted (like the way chase’s commentary was genuinely good??). and then the obvious reasons as to why i liked it, hamzah looked so damn good, and he knows it too (i also find martin attractive too, i’d just prefer not to talk about it too much in respect to his relationship). there’s something so beautifully boyish about their content that i can’t find something else (as much as i love them and before anyone says it, no - the dancing gamers cannot replace hamzah and martin and that’s okay!)

however this video kind of cemented why i don’t think i’ll continue regularly engaging with their content. this video kind of felt like a bittersweet ending to one of my favourite eras in my life (watching them). and before i proceed, ik the reddit fans are gonna be annoying - on a side note of the reddit fans i feel like the reddit community is so pedantic over small stuff and because of the few, genuine bad eggs in the community, they over correct and just get so bitter and mad about everything (i.e them being so cruel to fanfic writers) and call everyone chronically online whilst they use the same old “*insert trending braintrot joke* 💜”. i feel so aged out in a fandom even though i’m 18 - i can’t imagine how the slushies who are actually around hamzah and martin’s age feel when their fandom is so reminiscent and full of the same 14 year olds that i’m convinced are the reincarnations of the 2021 14 year old dsmp fans. definitely more sane, i’ll give them that. but community aside, at least reddit community, i want to talk about something another one of my mutuals mentioned recently in their own post and it’s how money hungry they seem. two things can exist at once, let’s get that straight - hamzah and martin don’t get a lot of sponsorships but also being upset that so much of this well awaited come back was heavy promotion for the patreon which, mind you, had a decent amount of members subscribed (i do commend hamzah for encouraging people to unsubscribe over the break!) and also they get money off of ad revenue. i just personally find it egregious that their hoodies, the out of character ones, which are at least unique designs unlike them literally reselling temu shirts like the “find x” shirts, are the same price, in my currency, to the essentials fear of god hoodies.

for any south africans here, it was around like R900 for a hoodie! which is gross im sorry :)

there are also other reasons im distanced from them, and its their associations with chase and claire - i made a, now deleted, post about this before but chase has this annoying tendency i notice in white ‘queer’ (i think he’s queer lmao) men where they speak in blaccents, which was heavily highlighted to me when he was a commentator and he was able to speak in a ‘normal’ white accent, and claire made weird ass comments about black women. as well as having fucking idubzz (who im not sure why was even invited when like sm people are like “who even is he??”) who literally had to make an apology about the fact he created a racist culture with his platform, years after the damage was done. i also have other smaller issues with them that would definitely actually get me cancelled (not even over on the reddit but here). but idfk, what are yalls thoughts?

[lilu787788]

I feel a quiet yet undeniable irony in the fact that the most fervent critics of Aleksander have become his most reliable promoters. While they insist they want him gone, canceled, buried beneath fake moral outrage and threads on TikTok or Tumblr, the truth is far more amusing. They are actually one of the reasons why the Darkling remains one of the most talked-about and beloved characters in the Shadow and Bone universe.

Today, I won’t focus on his supporters and our boundless love for him or our understanding of his actions. Instead, let’s turn our attention to the ones who drip venom.

From a purely technical standpoint, social media platforms thrive on engagement. They don’t stop to examine whether a post is righteous or malicious. They don’t ask if your opinion is virtuous or vengeful. All that matters is how many people interact with it. A post screaming “Stop romanticizing the Darkling” accompanied by clips of his darkest scenes will reach just as many people as a fan-made tribute. Why? Because controversy ignites attention. Comments flood in, people argue, repost, and reply. The algorithm watches the chaos and concludes: this character matters. Let’s show him to more people.

And just like that, the critics end up doing something incredibly beneficial for Aleksander. It’s no wonder that the very people who tried to ruin his image are refreshing it for a new audience. In fact, they do it so consistently, it starts to make you wonder — is it really hatred, or something more complicated?

You don’t keep talking about a character who bores you. You don’t quote him, you don’t edit his scenes, and you don’t spend hours crafting multi-slide condemnations of someone you’ve supposedly forgotten. What they call denunciation is starting to look suspiciously like obsession — the kind that seeps under your skin and never truly lets go.

Characters that spark this kind of discourse are rarely forgotten. History is full of examples. Characters like Kylo Ren, Loki, Paul Atreides, Roy Batty — they are morally grey characters. What made them endure wasn’t just universal love. It was, and still is, the endless debate about who they were, what they did, and whether it was justified.

Aleksander belongs in that pantheon — not despite the arguments around him, but because of them. A clean-cut character, widely accepted or rejected, fades fast and is forgotten even faster. A character that divides opinions becomes legend. And what a beautiful kind of legend it is.

As is often the case in fandoms, the harder one side pushes, the stronger the other becomes. Every angry thread accusing Aleksander of emotional abuse, manipulation, tyranny, or worse leads to thoughtful essays defending his actions and exploring broader themes of military history and moral ambiguity. Fans respond not out of wounded loyalty but because the discourse gives them a stage. It gives them a chance to analyze a character whose actions can be interpreted through lenses of trauma, politics, survival, and love. That kind of complexity is irresistible to anyone who finds depth more compelling than labels.

Even the idea that Aleksander must be “defeated” by discourse is unintentionally flattering. It means he still matters. It means his presence is still felt. He still haunts the narrative, the fandom, and the people who claim to despise him. Meanwhile, characters who once caused outrage but now gather dust have truly lost. The silence that surrounds them is the only kind of cancellation that works.

Aleksander, on the other hand, is alive and well. He’s reposted and reinterpreted every day, still lighting up the collective imagination of those who cannot let go — those who love him, and those who hate him.

In the end, the critics — the antis — are not destroying him. They’re giving him the spotlight, the platform, the legacy. With every hashtag, every frame, every outraged paragraph, they solidify his place in fandom culture. They remind the internet that he’s worth talking about. They remind the studios that he draws attention. They remind the fans why they fell in love with him.

The louder the outrage, the more irresistible the puzzle becomes. Why? What? When? And just like that, people start to discover him — and in most cases, they fall in love.

So truly, I thank them. They make sure he’s never forgotten. They feed the algorithm. They expand the discourse. They build the myth.

Aleksander doesn’t need to defend himself. His critics are doing all the work.

And to make this boring post a little more fun, here’s a set of cute graphic showing the popularity of Shadow and Bone characters over the past 12 months 😊

[pseudophan]

I was not in the phantom but from afar, watching mainly other YouTubers, I had the assumption the shipping was a fandom fantasy… Having now delved into the Ancient Lore I’m baffled that anyone ever doubted they were dating and that from the outside phanies had the reputation of making shit up! Genuinely tought they were Best Friends that teens thought were cute. Meanwhile they’re literal soulmates who shared their raw puppy love online with a force so blinding I can barely watch the archives

people's perception of dan and phil and the whole shipping thing varied so much, but i think the different opinions made a lot of sense depending on how much you knew about them and how online you were

people who knew nothing about dan and phil or the internet/shipping culture often assumed they were together based purely on seeing like one clip and being like. well of course. a lot of parents fall into this category lmao

people who knew nothing about dan and phil but were familiar with the internet and shipping often assumed they weren't together, not based on dan and phil themselves as much as just the fact that their fans were universally known as feral shippers and because 97% of the time rpf ships are utter bullshit (and those who believe they're legit are often looked at as insane) there was this assumption that because dan and phil were so heavily shipped there was no chance they were actually together

and then of course as far as actual fans go there was (and to a degree still is) a Lot of nuance and i don't really need to get into all the different camps cause we've talked it over endlessly, but the most interesting one to me is diehard phannies who'd absorbed every single bit of dan and phil lore but it was almost too much proof? because again, rpf ships aren't real, it's never actually true. so surely this one isn't either. regardless of how much it's spelled out in front of us. right? oh shit daniel howell uploaded a new video i haven't seen him since the gaming channel went on break i wonder what he's u- what the fuck

[koipepo]

😭 bruh when antis be like "it's rape!! It abuse!!" Like we don't know. Yes Helen, that is why we ship it. I know there's delusional shippers out there that put a wholesome paint brush over toxic dynamics but that's usually the antis who do because that cognitive dissonance is the only way they can ship something morally reprehensible and still sleep at night. The rest of us don't give a fuck nor do we gauge people's morality by their media tastes.

WARNING FOR LONG ASS RANT under the cut

(honestly theres still merit on reimagining toxic ships in healthier AUs but it still rubs me the wrong way when lines get blurred so i tend to stay away from "sweeter" AU of any toxic ship. The clarity of obscene dead dove feels safer for me but this is just my preference)

Re: antis keep making argument that its toxic and therefore shouldnt be shipped; it's regurgitated argument that feels like baby's first forray to fandom. thats why i never tried to engage with any of them in my inbox, even when theyre not throwing out kyes or insulting me.

Why should i keep explaining fandom's basic shipping tendency to you when sammick has such back-to-basic villain x protagonist final girl trope 😩 you dont need to keep repeating that its bad and toxic and unhealthy, yeah i know!! Remmick is a goddamn vampire!! Drinks blood and kill people!! We love the toxic stuff precisely bc its not real!

Also like, antis who keep trying to make shipping the God-honoring way lol please... as if we are referencing fictional ships for actual real life relationships goals. Giving me the vibe of "women shouldnt read books bc they would be too influenced by them". Dont ship anything that deviates from canon -> such normie take that i see too often in any fandom nowadays. Honestly its 100x more worrying if you gotta have fiction to be unblemished/untainted because your moral backbone can be influenced that easily. Please take a step back and distance yourself if you feel easily influenced by transgressive media, seriously✋

it makes me kinda mad too that Sammie as black man (also as bottom in my preference) gets so much scrutiny and pearl-clutching treatment when it comes to shipping when non-black characters get away for so much crazier dead dove stuff.

i saw someone in sa/mmick tag in twitter saying that this ship is white propaganda bc it detracts from pearline/sammie and i had to stare off into the distance for a good minute. Hard to take this think-pieces like this in good faith when they talk about shipping in such condescending and inflammatory manner. also how they treat shipping like activism when its literally just convergence of random strangers playing make believe in small corner of internet.

My fav is Sammie and i think the most about him out of any character in Sinners, and Remmick comparatively is treated by like scary vampire dildo for him LMAO (i still really like him tho, but it's fun to rag on him from time to time)

the plot demands Remmick to be obsessed with Sammie (only with his talent or his whole being, its undeniable that Remmic zeroes in on him) and like. As Sammie's fan, who am i to NOT utilize the clear text of the movie for my entertainment? Why shouldn't i use the canon plot to further my expression of appreciation on Sammie? My way of appreciating him, which includes shipping him with the Big Bad of the movie, is not anymore less valid than anyone's.

I understand the movie and its allegory to toxic, unhealthy cultural/racial assimilation and i also can switch on my shipping brain when im in fandom. Most samm/ck shippers treat sammie like the talented coveted princess that he is and remmick as garbage stank man, no centering whiteness at all in majority shipping posts lmao. Treating sammi/k shippers like we're such big blight when actually we're such small blip in Sinners tag, sammi/ck aint even explicitly canon like other het ships in Sinners so like... Stop making it as if we're such big problem damn 😭 the fact that we properly tag our shit too, antis could easily block us out of existence if we bother them that much but in reality theyre too addicted to being mad and love rage-baiting others

anyway i went on for too long 🤧

Its not too bad in sa/mmick tag these days, sometimes some antis misuse the tag but sa/mmick fans are so much more productive to counter that :) its really fun & welcoming here

[max-headroomfiles]

It has been a while since i spoke from my weird feelings but i suppose since it is a special day, i speak from the heart. So be warned it is very cheesy and very long

When i was only seventeen, it had been a rough year for me. I had been in a summer school program and my mental health was extremely rocky at best and it was extremely hot so it made everything worse for me. In the summer of that year, July to be exact, I had got home from the bookstore and went onto YouTube to see a video about Max Headroom from a channel called Watcher. Now to give context, i had seen this channel pop up in my feed beforehand, but never knew what it was. Hell, I never knew what buzzfeed unsolved was or who Shane Madej and Ryan Bergara (and Steven Lim) were when clicking on that video.

I hadnt known who they were, the impact they had on the internet since 2016, or what the channel was about. I just knew that "hey, these guys are alright!" And watched their stuff, not really knowing that they would have their impact on me too. For all I knew, it would just be another fleeting fixation i would forget about in a year or so. But I'm glad it wasn't.

I am not exactly sure as to why they begin to stick with me,, maybe it was me learning about them and who they were, maybe it was the content, or maybe it was the fact i had found a niche that truly spoke to me.

And when April 19th happened, i was extremely worried that I wouldve lose something important to me. Not because i felt betrayed or that i couldnt afford the streamer, but because that wouldve meant i would have to let them go and i didnt want to just yet,, i mean I just got into them!! How could i just drop them all because half of the fandom was doing it? And of course, i had worried about what this all had meant, was half of the fandom right? Were they truly bad people? (No, of course not.) But after the apology video, I think that is when my worries had vanished and thats when i knew why i liked them.

They are good people, not perfect, no. But they are good people.

And really, I would only be lying to myself if i said they didn't have an infleunce on me, i mean at the end of the day I know theyre just guys making content online but theyre also creative, kind, and what makes them them also motivates me to make me me. They are so unapologectially themselves that i want to achieve that kind of weird wonderful vibe that they have.

I admire the fact that Shane is just so creative with how he can manage to tell such an insane and engaging story with a little blue puppet talking about history and sharing his adventures in this weird and wonderful world.

I admire that despite the fact that Ryan is scared, he still manages to walk in the dark to reach out to ghosts in hopes he finds something because no matter what his belief in the paranormal is much more stronger than his fear and im happy to say hes one of the bravest men i know.

And finally, I admire Steven for his geniune kind heart and the ability to connect with people with food and culture, and the fact that he is an advocate for what he believes in and uplifts others through that. I am so grateful for his mark on the company and for starting it too, because if he hadn't then i wouldnt know what i would be missing.

I know lately i tend to flinch at myself for being too passionate, or too much when it comes to watcher. I get embarassed because I think i love them too much and you can see that when i get upset whenever something happens in the fandom. But I mean it when i say i am grateful for them, for their impact on me. If there ever comes a time when i grow out of watcher (which i hope not), just know that i am always, always going to be happy that i found them at such a hard time in my life and their content pulled me out of that rut.

Always.

With that being said, thank you Shane, Ryan, and Steven and the Watcher crew as a whole for five years of amazing content.

I hope you know that you make people feel right at home. And remember, despite everything that has happened with covid and the streamer stuff, it is still you. <3.

[momaphobic]

Random thoughts about Aphmaus Fanbase circa 2015-2018ish, MCD & Mystreet,internet culture around that time

Like most people on the internet I want to share my thoughts on something I am very passionate about

My thoughts on MCD

When it comes to MCD I truly love the story and was upset when she ended it in 2017 but know that i look back on it i understand why people were upset with the aph x garroth or aph x laurance because it did seemed very rushed thru/incomplete and due to aphmau recieveing mass amounts of hate im sure that didnt help either ,which i understand why someone would be upset about a ship they very much enjoy and it not being canon but what i dont understand is why people were saying horrible things to aphmau for their ship not being canon ( i mean srsly was it ever that big of a deal?) , but i feel like people got so focused on the ships in MCD it completely overshadowed the main story

Aphmau Fanbase 2015-2018ish

i always see tons of people online saying they were huge fans of mcd and mystreet and dont understand why she cancelled it/huge change of content and I have a theory about this kind of. I feel like the fandom at this point was split really into two main age groups 8-12 and 15-18, I know that doesnt seem like a huge age differnce in groups but I was around 7-10 When i first started watching aphmau and was not really aware of the situation going on (probably due to the fact that most of it was address on platforms like insta,twitter and a maybe few live streams on yt and i didnt rly know how to have a social media like back then) so when all the rumors that aphmau had dealt with in the past had resurfaced recently this was my first time hearing about them despite being in the fandom since 2014-15. Hearing about how Aphmau had to deal with all that unnecessary hate absolutely broke me knowing how a few people probably ruined a fandom and how we might never actually get a finished story is very sad but also Aphmau’s content now is very targeted towards children and understanding why she changed her content is her way of still being able to do what she loved and while avoiding hate

Internet culture around this time

I know internet culture sounds weird but i would say 2010-2019/20 i feel like the internet was still kind of like a town in the middle of the midwest like slightly deserted but enough human life to have small communities around ( most the time communities involving alt fashion,video games, just “nerdy” hobbies, also,unfortunately,a bunch of very triggering stuff being highlighted and glamorized(this was probably more around 2007-10 tho)) the most recent example i can think of is tiktok when tiktok first got put in place i very much remeber furry,gamers and cosplayers getting along and their being a social consequences when someone was outed for being a not so good person or just being a bully. Nowadays I cant imagine someone saying those things to aphmau and getting away with it considering how people will dig thru a influencers past internet history and find things from 10yrs ago im sure people would be able to find some random leaving hateful messages towards her and telling them to stop or sending a bunch of comments n messages to them

This is totally a rant post lol Ive just been thinking alot abt the whole situation since they have announced mystreet season 7 and im very excited for the future of mystreet and aphmaus roleplays and im hoping for a little bit more accountability in the fandom so we dont repeat the past. if u made it this far sorry if nothing makes sense its 4am 😭 and i needed to write out my thoughts or i was gunna go crazy. Goodnight yall 🤩🤩😛😛

[unsaidace]

Sorry the buddie weirdos have found you (they have to be stalking the anti tags because I can’t even find you on the bucktommy tag)

Here’s an ask that’ll make them freak out even more. They all think 8x11 was a win for buddie because Tommy brought up Buck being in love with Eddie. So they all think Buck is secretly in love with Eddie because “Buck never said he wasn’t”

Forgetting the fact that this was how the conversation went: (from memory so give or take a word)

“In love with Eddie?!

“It wouldn’t be so crazy.”

“Except that I’m not. As much as everyone wants me to be hopelessly pining for my straight best friend it’s just not like that.”

So Buck did deny being in love with Eddie.

But even past that. In episodes 12-17, there was not a single moment where Eddie being anything but straight was questioned.

They bring up Eddie doing dance. Seems a little like a stereotype to me.

And there’s not a single moment when Buck loving Eddie romantically ever comes up.

I know this show has shitty writing sometimes, but you’d think that if Buck and Eddie were absolutely going to be a thing and that Buck was so deeply in love with Eddie as they say he is, then wouldn’t there be something?

They say the FaceTimes show Buck co-parenting Chris. What? Your friend asks you questions and wants advice or to rant and suddenly you’re co-parenting? Wow. Good to know that when my best friend tells me she has a headache and I tell her how to make a migraine cocktail that I’m suddenly a neurologist.

Buck’s flashing heart eyes at Tommy in the helicopter.

Eddie is sleeping on Buck’s couch for a week. (If the buddies were confident in Buck loving him, wouldn’t he be in the bed by now?). Also I’ve crashed at a friend’s place for longer that than, it’s not romantic.

Eddie yelling at Buck and calling him selfish for caring about his friends.

Sans the show being stupid and jump scaring us all with buddie at the last minute when the Bucktommy of it all remains unfinished, there is absolutely nothing pointing towards buddie.

The stans are aggressive and angry because i think they’re starting to see that or at least suspect it

Oh, they’re definitely stalking the anti tags, they do it all the time. They go in there looking for people to pick on. Unfortunately for them, I’ve been on the internet unsupervised since I was nine; fandom culture basically raised me, so they’re gonna have to try a lot harder than that if they wanna hurt me.

They do love to disregard the Maddie conversation of 8x11, huh? Buck straight up told Maddie he’s not in love with Eddie, but that doesn’t support their Gay Eddie theories, so they latch onto Tommy scoffing at Buck’s “and he’s straight!”, taking it to mean Tommy thinks Eddie’s gay. In reality, that was absolutely a “you wouldn’t be the first queer guy to fall in love with his straight best friend” scoff, nothing more to it.

The “Eddie did ballroom dance = gay Eddie” thing fucking reeks of homophobia, and I said as much when that whole discourse was going around. I don’t know when we went from “boys doing dance is gay 🤢🤮❌” to “boys doing dance is gay 🧚🏻‍♀️💅🏻✨”, but it really isn’t the progress people seem to think it is, and that’s what Buddies don’t understand. Half of their “proof” smacks of homophobia. Buck and Eddie can’t even hug without them going “guys showing emotion! That’s gay!”, it’s genuinely weird as fuck.

[the-fabled-void]

What’s your opinion on Lust Sans? How do you think the creator could have handled hypersexuality better? Because honestly I don’t think it was handled very well -as a hypersexual anon myself.

What’s your opinion on Lust Sans? How do you think the creator could have handled hypersexuality better? Because honestly I don’t think it was handled very well -as a hypersexual anon myself.

I can't really say much about hypersexuality as i have no experience with it, and it's been a while since I read the Underlust comic.

One thing I have to say, I don't think NSFWShamecave probably didn't intent to portray SPECIFICALLY hypersexuality? From my understanding at least it doesn't seem like it.

Despite the way monsters behave being similar to hypersexuality, I believe the creator was trying to portray something that they believed was fictional. (The lore reason being the fact that everyone's injected with an aphrodisiac.)

And that's where a lot of the issues come from.

I will have to say, it was a genuine attempt by someone to make something with serious lore out of an AU with origins that are hard to take seriously. I would blame it on age, but I'm just gonna go on a limb and say someone with the username NSFWShamecave was at least 18 back then.

Regardless, it's not a story that's easy to tell. Even with genuine intentions, their story- you can tell it wasn't made by someone who knows their stuff.

Additionally, it seems like a kind of AU where the creator thought 'designs first, lore after'.

Which isn't a bad thing on it's own! It's interesting to already have a point in the story that the characters are at and think "okay, how did they reach it". But the creator didn't execute it well.

There's also the 'love fixes everything' vibes I remember getting with Papyton with what happened to Mettaton.

The AU itself feels kinda puritan, with Frisk needing to show the monsters true love as if they've never had it before. It feels extremely reminiscent of the internet's culture at the time, especially the Undertale fandom. I remember being very active on Wattpad at the time, and I remember on there... It was treated jokingly, but we did call anything sexual 'sin' and shamed people for being into it (12 year olds like I was SHOULDN'T be into it, but still...)

Not to mention... Chara. Obviously the character who was the fandom's genocide scapegoat, who was seem as evil back then, is gonna be made weirdly lustful. Good thing they aged them up, I'm glad this creator didn't try to dive into child hypersexuality (while it does exist, someone with those views on sexuality would not have handled that very well, and they would have received more scrutiny), but giving them the soul trait of Lust? That was probably not the best way of explaining why everyone is horny.

In short:

The main issues are that the creator was portraying a real issue bad because they didn't know it was real, and that the creator wasn't all that experienced in writing stories (and designed most characters other than Mettaton and Frisk without a story for them in mind).

As for Lust Sans himself, I didn't really answer that question specifically very well, did I?

Firstly, he suffers from what most characters in the story do.

Additionally, as a Sans, I'm gonna have to think about him in the context of the multiverse.

His portrayal is what happens when an already not too well executed idea is brought towards a bunch of kids.

Of course there were older people in the fandom, but I say the majority of us were not the intended demographic for the AU.

And kids, especially in today's day and age, are notorious for wanting to seem mature and therefore portray stuff for adults, but at the end of the day, we weren't and we couldn't.

So Lust, in especially the early fandom's eyes, was reduced to "non-consensual flirt bordering on rapist".

-

I do have my own version of the AU, slightly altered. So far it's just lore from the AU itself instead of individual characters or story. I wasn't really planning on doing much with it, and I made it before voicing my own criticism, so it doesn't really address more than the Chara sexualization. Feel free to read it if you're curious though!