#alastor apologist

[painfullyprickedandticked]

i dont think striker and alastor are characters who are "precious senpais who did nothing wrong" i just don't think they're as reprehensible as valentino or stella. their actions aren't excusable, no, but they aren't near that level of abhorrent.

[iamhereonlytobeanunstableshipper]

Ok so. I just saw a Reddit comment (idk why I get on reddit fandom cause it always ends up making me mad) saying that the Alastor and Husk scene was probably the first time Alastor was that violent towards Husk because of him talking back to Al in the first place.

Aka, Alastor isn't abusive to Husk, except for that one time. And ISTG that comment made me want to crawl into the darkest pit of hell (ha, get it?).

SO, let's explain why Alastor's treatment of Husk isn't a one time thing.

Husk and abuse: a character analysis.

First of all, let's explain Husk's personality and why he acts the way he does.

Husk's character is presented to us as a grumpy old alcoholic who only wants people to leave him the fuck alone. He doesn't care about the hotel, about any of its members, or about Alastor's plans. He doesn't want to collaborate, he doesn't want to be there, and he doesn't care enough to act as though he does.

But, reality is:

Husk cares. Way more than he wishes he did.

He doesn't show it often, but he cares. He shows it when he calls Sir Pentious, Charlie, Vaggie and Angel out at the beginning of Masquerade, and ofc, he shows it with Angel throughout this whole chapter.

(I find the heart motif on Husk's demon form to be very interesting, actually. I like to think that one of the things Husk hates the most about himself is that, as much as he wants to fake otherwise, as much as he sees it as a weakness, as much as it just complicates everything, he cares. And death taunts him with that, displaying for everyone to see the heart he so desperately wants to hide.)

Also, Husk is very good at reading people. He hates fakeness, he hates lies, he hates people being dense because they're trying to ignore a reality about themselves.

All of these things get on his nerves enough to show that he, in fact, cares.

And he sure as fuck loves (maybe a bit too much) winning an argument against someone who's pissing him off.

So, let's go to Alastor.

A while ago I saw an amazing post (that now i cant find aaaa if someone finds it pls let me know) that talked about how this isn't the expression of someone who's just been beaten at poker, but it's an expression of sadness and betrayal.

This post implied, therefore, that Husk and Alastor had built a previous relationship of trust before the betrayal, either platonic or romantic (which had been just manipulation from Alastor's side, just like he's now doing with Charlie)

If we take this into account, it makes more sense why Husk would care about Mimzy being trouble. Not only for the safety of the rest at the hotel, but also just a tiny little bit, for Alastor's own safety.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very sure that Husk hates Alastor, but there's this tiny, annoying part of him that can't help but care.

So, let's cut to the infamous scene.

Husk didn't confront Alastor because he had never been violent towards him before. Husk confronted Alastor because he cares, and because people being stupid gets on his nerves, and because he finds it hard to hold back when he knows he's right.

Also, it had been 7 years since he had seen Alastor. It's normal that he's gained more confidence to confront him.

AND, despite all of this, he was reluctant in the beggining.

In the first screenshot, Husk gets visibly angry at Alastor because of his dismissive attitude while his back is turned at him. But when Husk speaks again, you can see him visibly holding back, choosing his words carefully with that "I mean".

(Go rewatch the scene if you wanna, it's way more clear that way than via screenshots ksdldf)

Compare this to the much more accusatory way Husk was calling out Chaggie, Sir Pentious and Angel in back chapter 4. Husk is being careful with Alastor.

Despite all we know about Husk's personality that leads him to warn Alastor about Mimzy in the first place, Husk still holds all of that back.

Why? Cause he knows better than to say something that might anger him.

It's only when Alastor touches Husk and calls him his pet that Husk loses his temper.

As we know, Husk has VERY strong personal boundaries (probably some of them come from Alastor's touch itself)

Alastor trespassing his boundaries is what makes Husk stop thinking logically. He's pissed, and he hates Alastor, and he hates how he makes him feel so powerless, so insignificant, like less of a human.

And he bites back.

The comment I saw implied that Husk said the "big talk for someone who's also on a leash" because he thought it wouldn't have any major effect on Alastor, and he unknowingly touched a touchy subject.

But this is even slightly out of character for Husk. He didn't say it because he didn't think it would make Alastor mad, he said it because he knew it would make him mad.

Husk is fucking amazing at reading people. He knew it was a touchy subject. He wasn't thinking about consequences, he was thinking about pissing Alastor off, about regaining control.

(He's a gambler, cmon. Searching for control and power without minding the consequences is his thing.)

This is NOT a "what the fuck is he doing?" face. It's an "oh no, not again" face.

And immediately, he tries to take it back. The rush of making Alastor mad passes away the moment he pulls out the chain, and Husk knows what's coming.

Alastor has done that before. Judging by Husk's body language, there's NO way on earth he hasn't.

One VERY important thing to take into account is: victims have personalities.

Of course, victims tend to have unifying factors in their trauma responses due to similar experiences, but overall: a victim isn't an archetype, it's a person.

There are different types of abuse. Everyone reacts differently towards abuse.

Saying that Husk isn't being abused by Alastor just because he talks back is. Well. Kinda weird, isn't it?

(Maybe I'm exaggerating but doesn't it sound like victim blaming a bit??)

The important thing is that this is how Valentino and Alastor treat Angel and Husk:

Yes, they are different types of abuse. Yes, Angel and Husk's reactions to it are different.

But this doesn't make one kind less valid than the other. And just because Alastor isn't sexually abusive to Husk, that doesn't mean Husk's abuse is "less important" (this isn't a competition, ffs)

Husk's personality, Husk's hatred of stupidity, Husk's reactive nature, Husk's strong boundaries, don't automatically disappear when he's talking with his abuser. He's still Husk.

And yet, we can still see the signs of abuse, such as Husk holding back at the beginning because he knows what Alastor may do if he's mad, or him flinching away slightly when Alastor turns suddenly to look at him, or him trying to take back what he just said immediately because he's scared of the consequences.

And, let's be serious. Alastor is a serial killer. He enjoys watching people suffer. He enjoys knowing that people fear him.

And, since he's on a "leash", as Husk said, I'm very sure this hurts his ego a whole lot. So, it makes sense that he loves feeling that he has control over the souls he owns, that they fear him, to forget he's not completely free himself.

It's not so far fetched to assume that Alastor gets a quick and an ego boost out of seeing Husk like that, terrified and shivering on the ground. So I don't believe he hasn't done it before.

(And I mean, even if this only happened the one time we see it in the show, it would still be abusive?? It would be Alastor using his power to physically and psychologically torment Husk, which is abuse, even if it's only once ((which i highly doubt)))

In conclusion: Alastor is an abuser. There's no way around it. And Husk is a victim of abuse.

Sorry this got long SLKDS

Tbh I think everything I said here is pretty obvious?? Like to me that scene always read as a way of the show telling us Alastor's true colors once no one's watching, and the way he treats Husk. Like, it didn't even cross my mind that it might have been an isolated occurrence.

But the comment had around 50 upvotes so?? Idk I just wanted to rant about this lmao

[susie-dreemurr]

I know this is random and out of nowhere but I’m an apologist for Strike helluva boss because if I was asexual and forced to live in hellaverse I too would have done All That

[royalvelvette]

Like I had a dream of Season 2 last night, and weirdly it seemed exactly like what Season 2 might actually be like in terms of reveals. Like it turned out Alastor was actually a fraud, he didn’t kill all those overlords when he first got to Hell, but rather lied and said he did, and began attaining some power over the years with that rep, never a lot but enough to beat out smaller names, that being why he was so dependent on smaller deals like those he had Rosie keep an eye out for. He wasn’t pacing himself but desperately trying to live up to the myth of the Radio Demon. And it turned out Husk had been more powerful than Alastor when he acquired his soul, and the day he did was just as stressful for Alastor as it was for Husk. Then Vox tried to have him join the Vees, Alastor turned him down since he didn’t want to truth of his power being much lower than thought being found out, they got in a fight, and Alastor was legitimately hurt but managed to hide it and leave before Vox realised, just as he did with Adam. Alastor then encountered the real force responsible for those overlords going missing: Eve, the first woman. Basically in the world of ‘Hazbin’, before Heaven and Hell, there was simply Good and Evil, literal personifications, concepts given awareness. Good was the first to gain mass, becoming God, creating the angels and then Earth, Adam, Lilith, Eve, while Evil was left a simple force, until Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment, God’s counterpart in evil. Who could be seen in the opening storybook in the first episode, Go(o)d a closed eye amongst clouds, Evil a red eye(s) and smile amongst darkness, I checked once I woke up to ensure that shot was real. So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him. So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work). Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven. And we would find this out since in Season 2, overlords started to go missing again as they once did before, only this time Alastor couldn’t really claim credit. My dream ended before it was clear who had killed them, whether it was Eve trying to find a new rep (the process having dissolved the souls of most whose wills were not powerful enough to escape her, before she had found Alastor, who would have spent the seven years he was gone attempting to escape her mass, regain corporeality to act on Eve’s behalf), or whether it was Lilith trying to figure out which overlord was Eve’s rep and wipe them out, but it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this, like with her being the source of all Evil in this world I could have seen Val apologists in real life saying all he did wasn’t his fault because of her, what her influence did, which wouldn’t be great, but the scene my mind came up with was (great). So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up.

What I'm getting from this ask (given that readability on long asks is. rough)

Me 🤝 You Good and Evil should be treated as characters in their own rights

Ask reformatted + a proper response under the cut

(Ask in quotes, my response indented)

(Addendum after I finished responding: I don't disagree with you, my interpretation is just different, but I think yours is cool on its own merits! I just like. thinking abt Hazbin and this ask gave me a lot of fodder to think about my interpretation vs yours and was handy for comparison)

"Like I had a dream of Season 2 last night, and weirdly it seemed exactly like what Season 2 might actually be like in terms of reveals. Like it turned out Alastor was actually a fraud, he didn’t kill all those overlords when he first got to Hell, but rather lied and said he did, and began attaining some power over the years with that rep, never a lot but enough to beat out smaller names, that being why he was so dependent on smaller deals like those he had Rosie keep an eye out for."

I don't necessarily think Al is a fraud, per se; I just think he's not as strong without Evil supplementing his powers with the staff. Like, I think - he had some power. I firmly believe that your actions in life translates to your base power level as a sinner/winner; and that the length of time passed since your death also adds to that power. He was a decently powerful sinner at death (serial killer); not Overlord level by any means, but pretty close to the top of sinners in general. I think he grew that power by picking off sinners on his level and, like you say, making more minor deals (or soul deals with weaker sinners, where the alternative would be he keeps killing you over and over and over in new and inventive ways). I do think he killed the Overlords, I just think he did that after he had made his deal with Evil for more power, instead of solely with his own.

"He wasn’t pacing himself but desperately trying to live up to the myth of the Radio Demon. And it turned out Husk had been more powerful than Alastor when he acquired his soul, and the day he did was just as stressful for Alastor as it was for Husk. Then Vox tried to have him join the Vees, Alastor turned him down since he didn’t want to truth of his power being much lower than thought being found out, they got in a fight, and Alastor was legitimately hurt but managed to hide it and leave before Vox realised, just as he did with Adam."

Oh, you and I both agree on Alastor talking a bigger game than what he could play. I think, even before he was powerful enough to back his actions, he was mouthing off/mocking Overlords who, at the time, were in an entirely different weight class. He has a terrible habit of doing this, imo - with Lucifer in 'Dad Beat Dad and Adam in 'Finale'; plus, depending on your interpretation, even Charlie (I'm specifically referring to the first advertisement for the hotel - I think I've discussed it in tags b4, but it reads to me as Alastor seeing how far he can push before Charlie snaps). We agree, again, on Husk being more powerful than Alastor when the gamble happened! God, I have a lot of thoughts about Husk as an Overlord; and the gamble, in particular. Husk, I feel, is... mostly honest; even as a gambling Overlord. I don't think Husk rigged it in his favour, and I don't think Alastor would have cheated (just due to possible consequences if he got caught - and if anyone was gonna catch him cheating at gambling, it was going to be Husk) Husk most likely would have bet big, possibly to scare Alastor - Alastor had less power, so something that wasn't 'all in' for Husk would be all in for Al; one loss on Al's side at the beginning of the gamble would put Alastor's soul into Husk's hands. Ehhhhhh, Adam... definitely realized Alastor was injured. He's so fucking smug about it, the asshole.

"Alastor then encountered the real force responsible for those overlords going missing: Eve, the first woman."

I don't have much to say here, just because of where my interpretation differs from yours.

"Basically in the world of ‘Hazbin’, before Heaven and Hell, there was simply Good and Evil, literal personifications, concepts given awareness. Good was the first to gain mass, becoming God, creating the angels and then Earth, Adam, Lilith, Eve, while Evil was left a simple force, until Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment, God’s counterpart in evil. Who could be seen in the opening storybook in the first episode, Go(o)d a closed eye amongst clouds, Evil a red eye(s) and smile amongst darkness, I checked once I woke up to ensure that shot was real."

Yes, thank you! Good and Evil are represented as physical beings! It's one of my favourite bits of the opening narration because it has so many implications for the world of Hazbin Hotel. Good & Evil are fundamental forces; I think they can't interact with the physical world w/o a vector - for Good, the angels & Heaven; for Evil, the Sins (sans Lucifer) & Hell. Good, because the angels created the first humans, had a way to interact with Earth first, through Adam and Lilith. Once Lucifer and Lilith gave Eve the fruit of knowledge, she became Evil's way to interact with Earth. All descendants of Adam and Eve (Good and Evil) therefore have the capability of both Good and Evil, due to being vectors.

" So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him."

I think Adam does have a concept of Evil in him - but I think him being created from Earth's dust by the angels kept him from being affected as strongly as Eve by the fruit. Eve was made from his rib; her connection to Good as a force was more dilute, if that makes sense? tbh I think Adam got into Heaven because he was the first man. I think if Lilith had died, instead of being banished to Hell, she would go to Heaven for the same reason. The two of them are as close to divine/angelic as a human can be; therefore they belong to Heaven in a way other humans... don't.

"So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work)."

I think, human-wise, you're correct - only Adam & Lilith could kill Eve (as Evil's vector). Charlie is... an iffy case, for me - yes, she's descended from one of the only humans untouched by Evil and a fallen angel; but she was born into Evil's home. I think, if anything, her nature would be closer to Eve's pre-fruit - she has connection to Good, but it's much more diluted than Lilith's ever is/was. Charlie could kill Eve (as Evil's vector) anywhere that isn't Hell, basically - Evil can't have homefield advantage.

"Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven. And we would find this out since in Season 2, overlords started to go missing again as they once did before, only this time Alastor couldn’t really claim credit. My dream ended before it was clear who had killed them, whether it was Eve trying to find a new rep (the process having dissolved the souls of most whose wills were not powerful enough to escape her, before she had found Alastor, who would have spent the seven years he was gone attempting to escape her mass, regain corporeality to act on Eve’s behalf)"

I really like the idea of vectors of Good & Evil being able to sense each other's creation... Also Evil accidentally killing potential vectors. I think Good would have the same problem, honestly - Good and Evil are fundamental forces of this universe; they aren't meant for mortal ken. The OG trio of humans being exceptions to that rule.

"or whether it was Lilith trying to figure out which overlord was Eve’s rep and wipe them out, but it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this, like with her being the source of all Evil in this world I could have seen Val apologists in real life saying all he did wasn’t his fault because of her, what her influence did, which wouldn’t be great, but the scene my mind came up with was (great)."

The concept of "the greater good" strikes again! Love me some morally grey characters who do horrific things for 'good reasons', it's so fucking delicious. Also, anon. You, uh. Are aware that Val is one of my favourite characters, right? And that I'm writing a whole AU where he grows and changes for the better, yes? Like... I am very much what most of the fandom would consider an 'apologist', if my experiences in... several other fandoms that I will not be naming are anything to go by.

"So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up."

Yeah, I definitely think Alastor's purpose has to do with the concept of redemption - whether that be, as you say, preventing it entirely; or as I said in the Alastor & Lilith breakdown, being to only 'redeem' on a superficial level, thereby allowing Evil into Heaven. Also you should be impressed! It's a really good interpretation of canon, honestly, especially for a subconscious mind. Like, hands down, I can see this being viable in the canon of the show.

[lettherebemonsters]

I can't believe Hazbin Hotel is getting me to listen Metal: Hellsinger's OST on repeat. Not because Vivzie actually had any metal in her show (she's too "sophisticated " for that trash. Only Broadway for her) but because I'm dying to see Unknown just drop down into Hell and just do what she does best.....killing demons.

[showtoonzfan]

Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel is concerningly a trojan horse of white feminism. White feminism identifies with white patriarchy and strives to find a place of power within it, whether or not they acknowledge white men would never see them as equals. This type of feminism enforces the same patriarchal values that hold them down.

On both shows, the male characters are favored, the actions of the shitty male characters are justified to be right and that they are to be sympathized with little to no regard to their victims that are made to be at fault for being being imperfect at reacting at the abuse they receive.

And what is most perplexing to me as an outsider, is that Medrano is supposed to be a victim of abuse by some guy, and yet identifies and upholds her abusive male characters. In her attempt to humanize them, she disregards the weight of their actions. Her actions with her ex-employees and ex-friends show that the victim became the abuser to regain a sense of power, which is typically what white feminism is.

I know I shouldn't be psycho-analyzing her as a distant observer, but I'm tired of people mystifying a suffering deer with fungal-mutated horns and not thinking there's something wrong with it and that it needs help.

No you’re completely right. Vivienne has shown for many years that she isn’t a girls girl. On the outside she’s tried to paint herself as pro feminism and that she cares about other women, when in reality she’s transphobic, has put other women down, and has slut shamed them in her work. She’s basically that obnoxious girl in middle school that acts like she’s a girls girl but in reality is constantly and desperately seeking male validation, like how she once made a tweet questioning why she hasn’t been acknowledged for being a famous female content creator in a world dominated by men even though there were many other female content creators before her that were already rising to the top. I never came out of watching or reading something she made and thought “she hates men”, cause she doesn’t. She hates women and it shows in how she writes them and uses them. Her males are allowed to be 3 dimensional yet 90% of her females are one note. Viv also caters to the male audience who lusts over her female characters and I don’t need to explain that one.

Meanwhile she hasn’t got a single favorite or popular female character. There’s a reason why for years she’s said her favorites are Alastor and Angel and how she loves writing Adam, hell…she confirmed Adam is her favorite HH character. She doesn’t care about her female characters and only her males, whom she can find enjoyment in, either woobifying or sexualizing them. I think it kinda tells you something when you learn that Val is supposed to be based on her abuser yet she constantly likes tweets by Val apologists and sexy/silly fanart of him.

Meanwhile (as everyone has been saying), her content is for white queers/white fujoshi’s, no one else. She tries so hard for some reason to act like she’s new and progressive, challenging the world that’s been dominated by white people and their bland perspectives, but she hasn’t really added anything new to the table, and the way her fandom (and she herself at this point) treats black people is fucking nuts.

[sweetjazzygirl]

UPDATED: in case anyone ask for proof, you can check my reblog in this blog.

Tw// mention of grooming and pedophile

Something i learned from someone about Saberspark is the fact he's a groomer apologist.

The groomer he defended was BlackGryph0n, you know, who was Alastor's former singing voice in the pilot, someone said he even victim blamed Kyle's victim (i don't know if it's Kyle Carrozza or Kyle Rittenhouse because he already made a video about Carrozza already and if nobody knew, Kyle Carrozza is a pedophile who used to work at Cartoon Network).

If anyone has enough researches, please let me know, i stopped watching Saber for a while and never came across these information before.

Might tag this for criticals because he's apparently known to be defending Viv as well.

[writerquil]

Spoilers!

TW! A rant. Mentions of S@ and Abuse

AHEM! Alastor apologist (and apparently now partial defender) to the rescue!

This post is for anyone switching up on my guy after the newest episode. And the switch up originates from that one scene, you know, the scene below.

(EDIT: Sorry for the random censoring lol, I don't feel like going back to edit it and its an old habit of mine).

Yeah, we all know this scene. Basically the one where Alastor lashes out at Husk.

Immediately after seeing this scene I had TWO different reactions, in which consisted of “wow that was cool” and “people are going to twist this, aren’t they?”

And people did! So here I am!

I’m basically going to show a bunch of reactions and concerns to said scene that I disagree with and then I’ll say why!

1. “Alastor is like Valentino!”

Don’t even say that. PLEASE NO.

I like to think that I’m pretty good at letting my liking for characters go the moment that I realize they’re wretched in specific ways, but this never occurred for Alastor.

You wanna know why? Because he is NOTHING like Valentino apart from the fact that they’re both overlords who carry soul contracts. I don’t think I really need to pick apart their personalities because we can already tell how different they are.

The only reason why the two were “grouped” together was because Husk and Angel were stuck in situations both caused by soul contracts and an overlord which caused the two to be mentioned alongside each other.

2. “Husk’s relationship to Alastor is EXACTLY the same as Angel and Valentino’s!”

Nope. Both relationships, admittedly suck, trust me, I’m not discounting either relationship or saying “ok well one has it worse than the other”.

But come on guys, the relationships are not the same. Alastor sucks to Husk, obviously, considering he is forced to do his bidding for who knows how long? But there’s obviously a fine line between the two relationships.

There’s parallels of course, with the chains and the soul dealing. The situations aren’t completely the same but they have similar sources so parallels are bound to occur.

Valentino is an abusive ass whom frequently physically and emotionally abused Angel and Alastor (from what we’ve all seen) can be a jerk who drags Husk into clearly many “favours” such as working at the hotel and possibly many more considering he’s clearly met more of Alastor’s colleagues and friends before.

They’re both forced into things and with their souls under contract, they can’t do much about it. But the things they’re forced to do are significantly different. Once again, this isn’t me saying anyone has it better, because it’s not a competition.

But the relationships are not the same. The two are brought in for significantly different things. Do you really think Alastor is s3Xua!!y abusing Husk whenever he’s brought in? Yeah, no, me neither.

Do you think he’s mentally abusing him too, or that a situation like what was displayed occurs often whenever Husk does come in? Because no. Didn’t you see how startled Husk was? This clearly wasn’t just an average event that happened between the two frequently and the fact that Husk was willing to push Alastor’s buttons a bunch in the first place just shows that he wasn’t expecting it to happen either.

And for the people so insistent on Alastor abusing him like that. I suggest you hide your weird k!nks better.

3. “Alastor tortures Husk frequently!”

Okay and what gave you that idea? Was it the way that Alastor lashed out? Because he didn’t lash out of the blue as you may think.

Husk pushed his buttons and Alastor got angry. Trust me, I love Husk but he played a stupid game and got surprised when he won a stupid prize.

Considering Alastor abusive after pulling Husk to the floor is strange. Trust me, if he was supposed to be abusive, it would be explicitly showed throughout the episodes. And before you say “well it was implied”, I really don’t think so.

And once again, Husk was clearly extremely startled, which means this probably doesn’t happen very often. Which also discounts you all considering him to be similar to Valentino, who displayed hurting behaviour frequently.

Like the most we’d even seen interaction between the two was in the pilot and the recent episode. I think we’d get more display if there was more violence occurring in the relationship.

4. “I used to like Alastor before…”

Then what? You realized he was evil and did evil things? YEAH, he’s bound to threaten someone here and there.

Like if you don’t like him after witnessing his literal evilness then sorry to say, you never liked him in the first place.

I’m sorry for this guys but seriously. You can’t switch up on an evil character for doing evil things. He’s going to threaten people. Just know that when he does, it doesn’t signify he’s abusive or assaults Husk on a daily basis.

[verosikastrikerstellaexcuser]

Adding on to previous anon, can the fandom please explain why it's *Stella's* fault they were forced into a child marriage? Can they explain why it's *her* fault they were forced to conceive an heir? If anything, it's both their parent's fault.

The more they present Stella as just a heartless creature, the more tragic she becomes. Now she was a little girl with visible anger issues, and *nobody* bothered to help her or care for her as a person, just as an incubator. This is why she's wasted because she could have been a great example of generational trauma AND an example of a female abuser

This is what I've always thought and I've said it on here before that its appalling to portray a victim of an arranged marriage whos even more disadvantaged by it than the man like this show does (since St*las gets the whole house in the divorce but Stellas only option was to marry him so she could never own her own property, basically Stella has no property rights much like women used to not historically). The St*las stans just don't. Fucking. Get it. They say you're an abuse apologist and that its ridiculous that "Stella fans can't accept that sometimes women are just bad people" yes we fucking can. I'd have no issues with a female Alastor, for example. But the issue with Stella is that since birth shes been a victim of so much heinous shit, and yet shes BLAMED for it by the show and Viv etc like WTH?

The issue isn't that Stella is as an abuser. But that wasn't set up and done properly, much like many things in this show. The way shes mean to Stolas "just because" is fucking nuts. Like what do you mean just because? Yes, some abusers are abusers just because. But that doesn't work when Stella had 0 choice in marrying St*las like huh!? Shes been valued as nothing more than a baby incubator and for her looks since birth. She never had control over her own future in life and if she never wanted to be a mother, tough. If they had written her as being angry about that and then taking it out on St*las it wouldn't have pissed me off. What pisses me off is that the show and the fanbase is encouraged to act like shes a heinous bitch on the level of someone like VALENTINO. Nope, nope nope nope. A woman forced to bear a child with a man she didn't want to by her family is not on that same fucking level. Her abusing the man who also had no choice isn't right but she still never could have been "horrible just because". She is not Jack Horner from Puss In Boots. A victim of a forced arranged marriage could never be that, because Jack Horner type characters are evil just because they love to be despite stable happy upbringings, while Stella has like 5000 reasons to be evil. Which, let me preface with, I'm not saying it would make her abuse of St*las justified then. But it WOULD make it logical, her motivations would feel much more coherent. Instead of the show weirdly and nonsensically writing a woman being an abuser not because shes lashing out at being the victim of an arranged marriage but just because "shes evil" and the arranged marriage never affected her.

She should have been a sympathetic antagonist if they wanted to be her one. But instead the show and Viv encourages the fanbase to believe that none of what was done to her as a child affected her (yea pretty much impossible for that not to impact someone we are our upbringings and environments). We're supposed to believe she totally didn't mind being arranged married because she's mindless and just thought "oh fuck it, I mean I hate St*las and can't stand him but I'm not affected at all by being arranged married to him, and I'm not gonna mindlessly stick around to bully him muehehehe I love being brainless and hateful and evil just because!" Its such bad writing to write your female victim of an arranged marriage like this while your male one is an innocent soft uwu baby who never did anything wrong ever. Because all the arranged marriage and Stella's story boils down to is tragedy for St*las and opposition to the St*litz ship. Its so ick. Its exactly how misogynistic yaoi fanfics of the early 2010s would write women, the misogyny is completely transparent.

[autumnteawithfriends]

One thing i don't understand about HB and HH is that, Vivziepop said it was inspired by the show Bojack Horseman. And i don't see it at all.

First is that BH adresses that Bojack is a horrible person and we shouldn't root for him, while in HH we should like Alastor,Vox,Angel Dust and Valentino even tho they did somewhat worse thing then Bojack. Alastor and Angel are confirmed to have killed people wgile they were alive, Alastor was also a cannibal and literaly in Hell. I would honnestly prefered if it was like Bojack Horseman, that even thecreators know their characters are bad people. But instead these characters are codled like little babies on their mothers lap.

Second is deffinitly the clear misoginy Viv shows through her shows. Female chracters in BjH are complex characters who don't have to be a man's armpiece, unlike in HB and HH. PC and Diane Nguyen are one my favorite female chracters in cartoon media and love their stories throughout the show. I unfortunetly can't say the same in HH and HB. Female characters are, for what i saw, reduced to 3 categories: bitch,normal/nice wife and chaotic. And nothing else. One of the best examples of these is Stella(Stola's ex-wife and Via's mom) for what i seen she mostly had the same childhood as Stolas, or even worse. Only seen for her ability to give birth to an heir and be a wife and the show hates her for that? She must have been under alot pressure to give birth to an heir, Octavia. I honnestly somewhat preffered Stella over that crybaby Stolas.

And even Vivziepop said she loved Bojack Horseman, but i can bet on all the money i have that she hates PC and Diane for trying to distance themselfs from Bojack and that she was on Bojack's side all the time.

Anyways these my thoughs only and you can tell me yours if you want to

Thanks for the ask!

Okay, something I’ll admit is that I’ve never fully watched Bojack Horseman, I’ve only seen some specific scenes on YouTube. But something I can say with full confidence is that Viv claiming her shows are on the same level as Bojack Horseman is fucking ridiculous

First of all, she can’t say her shows are in the same level as Bojack when she refuses to do serious shit that even kids cartoons do. Such as having morally grey characters, not having a black and white morality, actually giving your characters development and consequences, it’s basically a laundry list.

Yeah, Stella would’ve been an infinitely better character to feel sympathy for if Viv actually gave a shit about her female characters + didn’t try her damndest to make us feel bad for Stolas. Like, how the fuck did Viv not expect some people to actually feel sympathy for her compared to Stolas considering her backstory? Stolas is a classist, racist, monarch who enacts Quid Pro Qud on Blitz yet we’re supposed to feel sympathy for him. Yet when people for sympathy for Stella, someone who’s only really a violent person with intense anger issues at her worst (which is 100% justified to me considering her backstory) suddenly people who feel bad for her are abuser apologists (which is false)

Like, you cannot say your shows are on the same level as Bojack Horseman if you refuse to focus on any of your female characters, refuse to give ACTUAL consequences that stick, and try to make us feel bad for arguably the most vile character in the show (Stolas) without doing anything to justify it. There’s so much more I could mention but you get the point.

Thanks for the ask again, apologies that I couldn’t really cover your points about Diane and PC (Also I realize that this is more about HB then HH, but the points still count)

[keikakudom]

RR!AU Why Vox Sponsors the Resort

Something I was gently afraid of when I posted my Reverse/Reset Resort AU was the whole thing coming off as a fix-it/Vox apologist AU... which I won't deny, one of the motivations was to explore how he would be viewed when presented as a "heroic"/good guy pedastal in the narritive. Similar to canon Alastor-- he's morally grey, we don't know exactly what he wants, and is an otherwise "bad guy" on the side of the hero for now. That said! I do deeply adore Vox's mean, cold, evil side.

His "business motivation" for sponsoring Charlie in this AU can be easily written off as a tsundere farce for wanting to be redeemed, but when he contracted with Lucifer, he most definitely, verbatim, used the words "business" and "hotel/resort".

Because that's exactly how Vox sees it. He's a business shark and always wants to be at the top in terms of power-- so yes, he had to give some stuff up(the Vees had to dissolve publically, soul insurance), but what's business without a bit of risk taking? And hey, he got the jump on this opportunity...because you know what sounds like power?

Deciding who gets to enter the pearly gates or not.

So, I do think one faucet here plays on the rumor that when Vox was a human he was a cult leader. It really feels like a God thing to be able to control who gets redeemed or not. So yes, he sold his soul to Lucifer to help Charlie with her hotel/resort. Not her DREAM. Vox is helping her to redeem Sinners, but he never specified to do it philanthropically/like a charity.

He isn't treating redemption as anything more than a product: Sinners are just consumers, statistics and numbers, and all the more proven because there's evidence that ascending/desending between Hell/Heaven is possible(even though the latter hasnt been concretely proven yet, it's enough for him to do business with).

I'm sure Charlie in this AU is wary of Vox, but she doesn't understand or know the full extent of what he's planning. She doesn't have that shark mind to jump straight to the end point and what rewards are to be reaped.

Also, in light of mentioning them: The Vees are important in this AU! They might not be the polycule powerhouse /j as we know in canon, but they are too good of a dynamic to ignore! And they're next on my list to design after I finish Alastor and Vaggie.

[iconsumethesoulsofthedamned]

I’m the biggest original alastor design apologist I love his emo hair but here’s my take on a redesign!

[pleaseletmeexist]

“So you’re not an Alastor apologist?”

No

“But you love him.”

Uh-huh

“And you hate Valentino.”

Correct

“But you love staticmoth?”

Yes.

“And you acknowledge that none of the people in the hotel are fully good people???”

WHAT’S SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND???

[n3felibata]

My mutual Hellaversity sent a similar ask but it's bizarre people will whine how Stolitz is so toxic when I've met only positive shippers minus maybe one or two artists (*cough*Dani*cough*) but on the other hand. The "healthier" Blitzø/Striker ship I've met people who draw rape porn of it, particularly NTR where Striker rapes Blitzø in front of a bound and gagged Stolas. I've seen decapitation art almost similar to when rabid Chaggie haters drew Alastor decapitating Vaggie and feeding her remains to Charlie, or even necro bullshit. I've seen stories where Striker "saves" Blitzø and violently murders Stolas in the goriest of ways.

But sure. We're toxic. Okay.

Ewww...

A lot of people who complain about how toxic the stolitz community are Stella defenders, ironically. Like it's weird how we're toxic, but they're the ones being abuse apologists

I remember finding this one person who had this violent, passionate hatred for stolitz, and I later found out that they were a zoophile... yikes...

They're honestly just as obsessed with them as the shippers. Just... in a different way...

[inconspicious-random-thoughts]

Like I had a dream of Season 2 last night, and weirdly it seemed exactly like what Season 2 might actually be like in terms of reveals. Like it turned out Alastor was actually a fraud, he didn’t kill all those overlords when he first got to Hell, but rather lied and said he did, and began attaining some power over the years with that rep, never a lot but enough to beat out smaller names, that being why he was so dependent on smaller deals like those he had Rosie keep an eye out for. He wasn’t pacing himself but desperately trying to live up to the myth of the Radio Demon. And it turned out Husk had been more powerful than Alastor when he acquired his soul, and the day he did was just as stressful for Alastor as it was for Husk. Then Vox tried to have him join the Vees, Alastor turned him down since he didn’t want to truth of his power being much lower than thought being found out, they got in a fight, and Alastor was legitimately hurt but managed to hide it and leave before Vox realised, just as he did with Adam. Alastor then encountered the real force responsible for those overlords going missing: Eve, the first woman. Basically in the world of ‘Hazbin’, before Heaven and Hell, there was simply Good and Evil, literal personifications, concepts given awareness. Good was the first to gain mass, becoming God, creating the angels and then Earth, Adam, Lilith, Eve, while Evil was left a simple force, until Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment, God’s counterpart in evil. Who could be seen in the opening storybook in the first episode, Go(o)d a closed eye amongst clouds, Evil a red eye(s) and smile amongst darkness, I checked once I woke up to ensure that shot was real. So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him. So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work). Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven. And we would find this out since in Season 2, overlords started to go missing again as they once did before, only this time Alastor couldn’t really claim credit. My dream ended before it was clear who had killed them, whether it was Eve trying to find a new rep (the process having dissolved the souls of most whose wills were not powerful enough to escape her, before she had found Alastor, who would have spent the seven years he was gone attempting to escape her mass, regain corporeality to act on Eve’s behalf), or whether it was Lilith trying to figure out which overlord was Eve’s rep and wipe them out, but it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this, like with her being the source of all Evil in this world I could have seen Val apologists in real life saying all he did wasn’t his fault because of her, what her influence did, which wouldn’t be great, but the scene my mind came up with was (great). So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up.

I would love to have a dream about Hazbin. How entertaining! It be like watching a terrible fanfic that been canonized despite the many plot holes. A great way to enjoy the Hazbin universe as we wait for season two. You are so lucky!

I did had a funny wacky dream last night. Usually mine are so dull but last night I dreamt I have to go back to high school for whatever reason. Which didn't seem terrible tbh as it would been.

But I remember going to the office in a panic between 1st and 2nd period, demanding a parking spot in the student parking before they were all given away. It made me miss my 2nd class.

then when I did up showing to one of my classes, the teacher was going on to the students how important this class is and yadda yadda. I remember I scoffed loudly saying "I never needed this. I already have a job...why am I here?" Then I woke up. Like that my most entertaining dream I had in a very long while.

However going on with your dream. The more I think about it, the more I believe Alastor active shadow is Roo. That Alastor shadow brought down the overlords and Alastor/Roo has them in a pocket dimension in a particular antique radio he owns and able to broadcast their screams live. So, It wasn't really Alastor that did the heavy work, but he was involved.

-side note I am curious if those overlords are able to break out now his mic broken. It would definitely be a twist, however unlikely to happen

I can see there may be scenarios or theories that he just took claim and why he turn down Vox.

"Lilith formed the apple of free will and gave it to Eve, infecting her with Evil, and so she became its embodiment"

I really dig the wording here. Its beautiful. Just there's an error in that dream in my opinion, as we already saw there was an "Evil" and clues of them making the tree, not Lilith. But everything still up to interpretation, my deductions is not true answers. just hypothetical theories.

"So basically all descendants of hers, humanity, would have both good and evil within them: the reason Adam was in Heaven was that in spite of being a jerk, he never had Evil as a concept within him"

I like this, I like this alot. In the bible, Adam did eat the apple too. But Hazbin universe is only loosely based on it. In the show, it didn't state he ate the apple too. So it was easy to assume he may have base on the original source (Bible). But that detail did seem to be purposely left out. In doing so, the way you worded that the descendents being born with both good and evil seem poetic. It gave Lucifer free will gift more weight.

"So what neither Alastor or Eve would have known was that because of this, he was among the few that could ever kill her (Evil), and now that Niffty took him out of the picture, the only ones left who could do so are Lilith and Charlie, the only ones of human descent not to be infected with Evil on some level (angels not having the right stuff to make it work)"

Oh, that would be fun. The only (free willed?) humans untouched by evil can defeat evil. Well, that put some pressure on being the chosen one on a few characters.

I have thought about why Lilith was considered a sinner. She really didn't sin. Only partake on peer pressuring Eve. I was working with an assumption with offscreen she ate it too because why would Lucifer be like....hey Adam new bride. Eat this it before offering free will to Lilith. But she seemed to already have free will as she refused Adam. So maybe the tree was made after that? Who knows. Its the small detail that throws me off each time but not willing to focus on it.

Anyway my dream had it that Alastor and Lilith hadn’t really met, but once Alastor made his deal with Eve, and she got herself a representative, Lilith felt it, and immediately fled to Heaven.

Could be! I think she might taken Charlie too if that's the case. But maybe Charlie being Hellborn she couldn't yet she can still visit?

I personally headcanon that Alastor at least is somewhat involved with Lilith disappearance. Or at least knowledge of it that he retaining the information. Which will destroy Charlies trust in him once she finds out he been aware what happened to her mom when she been sad and clueless about.

it did feature Vox be killed later on in the season, and Valentino and Velvette had a beautiful mournful ballad in response to this

Awe, man, Vox died? :( As unlikely as it it is, I think If he had to die, it has to save the fan (and Vox) favorite Alastor! Giving us a gut punch of feels out of nowhere. Then prove that Alastor did care about the Tv man after all.

So anyway Alastor’s purpose would have been to prevent redemption within Hell from being possible, since it would ruin Eve. It seemed surprisingly plausible to canon as we know it: I was thoroughly impressed with my subconscious mind on waking up.

I agree, it does seem to fit. I headcanon Alastor contract is to find a way to interflate Heaven. Alastor doesn't believe the redemption (Especially for himself) works but its his best shot on fulfilling his master will.

But man, I'm a little jealous I can't dream something fun like that. Thanks for sharing. I would have woken up and be like...I have a fanfic to write! then cringe at all the plotholes, and probably make more plot holes trying to cover the other ones up but failing miserably.

[i-write-sin-not-tragedy]

Related to that ask about your radiohuskerdust dynamics, have you considered Husk at some point joining the Radiodust comedic schtik with dry humour. Because I think Husk has capability send both Alastor and Angel into laughter with right-timed short comment

For anyone curious, the ask in question;

And anon YES PLEASE THATS SO PERFECT i hadn't thought of it but i LOVE IT

He'd have the funniest timing, too. You're so right. They never expect it when he interjects something, but its always so perfectly timed that it makes radiodust devolve into hysterics

Husk is quietly smug about his ability to make them both laugh, too. (He won't admit it shhh hes too Tsundere for that)