#and this is coming from someone who actually CARES about the fanbase

[rafedreams]

thinking about how most of my time with cec fanbase and rockafire fanbase here is hell. Yet, I stick around because I like animatronics

[theoddest1]

Let's Actually Talk About The Issues With Vivziepop

Okay, first off, hello you beautiful people! Sorry about this foreboding title, but I needed to catch y'all attention on this so I can break down the issues that I and many have with "Hazbin Hotel" and "Helluva Boss" creator, Vivienne Medrano. Now I am sure you all on here are already aware of at least a couple of the controversies that revolve around this particular creator and if you have seen my posts floating around already, some have been greeted with the problems surrounding her social media presence and just her overall as a person. I know seeing another callout on her seems very very tiring at this point, but I felt that a lot of the current callouts missed key details that were not at all addressed or properly delved on. I plan on shedding light on my issues with her and I hope you get where I am coming from when I say that she sucks.

BULLYING

Okay, I am starting off with Vivienne's blatant use of bully mentality, her agreeing or encouraging her fans to call people who see flaws in her works sub-humans or harass those who find issue or simply jest about her works trademark cussing and and overcrowded designs. She has had this issue for YEARS and refuses to grow up and act her age despite many telling her, even her own fans at times, that she shouldn't be acting so unprofessionally. Clearly, she doesn't care and thanks to her fanbase caring more about her feelings than her being better she feels as though she doesn't need to change or do better. This goes for her friend group as well, who defend her tremendously and act as though she is never in the wrong. Name one time a friend of hers called her out for acting childish, I'll wait.

Now, you're probably wondering, "Wtf could they have done to warrant such a response?"

Criticism...That's all they did. (White Text is random peeps they would speak with or maybe mutuals)

Keep in mind...they used to be a fan as well. They were also a minor at this point

But, Viv doesn't care, this person's critical yet harmless tweets about her shows is what lead to her painting them in a horrible light and making them out to be someone who has attacked her personally and as "nasty".

Rich coming from Viv since she is completely fine doing exactly that for "Ava's Demon". Not only does she criticize it, she takes a shot at the creator as well, but GOD FORBID others do the same towards her.

And according to someone who knew her well, it's all cause they felt creeped out by her.

Her hatred for criticism is so prominent that Ima makes that a section of its own. But let's get back on the topic of bullying.

Vivienne has a fanbase filled to the brim with pushy and overall annoying individuals who have harassed, threatened, disrespected, and wished harm on many people, all cause someone had a negative thing to say about Vivziepop's mid af show. One of the earlier known instances is the one revolving around a MEME of all things.

This was what started it all, and it led to both parties blocking each other and people being mad pushy and calling them an idiot and the like over their opinions. Now look, their take and you're opinion on said take is fine so long as you stay respectful and humane about it all, but don't dogpike someone all cause they think HH sucks. And while Viv can not control her fanbase, for they are not a hivemind (some of y'all act it tho, ima keep it real) she is seen here ENCOURAGING the behavior. Tell me how someone who doesn't even like your trash ass show has the sense to tell people not to harass others, someone with a smaller following, but not your grown damn near 30 year old ass?

Oh, but people wanna act like she can handle criticism, is a sweet person, and grew from her past experiences. Fam, she was 27 in this screenshot [December 16, 2019] and has shown no change from 2013 to fucking 2024. Over a decade of the same petty ass behavior, and keep in mind, according to several of her old friends and workers, she is worse behind close doors. WORSE. She's already acting like she got no damn sense out in the open, imagine behind closed doors.

Last but not least, a glimpse into her outright blatant slander towards Dollcreep, a once good friend of hers that she even visited and spoke with frequently!

She stated that they fetishized pedophilia yet according to the victim and friends of the victim who were once friends with Viv as well, Viv actually threatened to end their friendship if he hadn't drawn NSFW art of her character and his character having sex [Addi was 15 at the time this was drawn]

On top of that, she liked the post, something she didn't need to do. The art also depicted things she had regularly drawn on her own. Addi being tied up forcefully, being sexualized, being harmed to some degree through bondage, etc. The claim that she forced DC to draw this out is backed up by her own art depicting similar elements. Also, if my memory serves me well, Viv and Doll were 17-18 years old [Doll was 17 Viv 18] and have a 1-year age gap. The way Viv frames things here is as if DC was way older and imposed some sort of power over DC, which sources say otherwise. If anything, Viv had a LOT of control throughout all of this drama, which deserves its own section.

I'll be making posts that talk about the different issues regarding Viv, so one post isn't too long (this one is already lengthy enough) and that you can just pick at one post targeting certain issues around this creator.

[hertenskylarks]

One point that I want to talk about:

In the podcast, Clarie mentioned how she reached out to Gaiman with the intention of saying what she felt she needed to say and asking for an apology. This struck me because I did something similar with my rapist, and the response I received was eerily similar to Claire's experience.

Like Claire, when I called my rapist, I was fully expecting him to be defensive. I was fully expecting him to be dismissive and to shift the blame onto me. I was prepared to counter his excuses.

Instead, what I got was what seemed, at the time, like a sincere apology.

Yet, despite how genuine it sounded, I've always doubted his sincerity.The reason boils down to two words: damage control. When he realized I was confronting him, he said whatever he needed to say to pacify me. In Claire's case, Neil did the same. He apologized, claimed ignorance, attributed his failure to pick up signals to his autism, insisted he had never done this before, asked how he could improve, and even made a token donation to a charity Claire cared about.

How nice of him (sarcasm).

And for Neil, it worked… temporarily. After receiving what seemed like a sincere apology, Claire backed off. She decided against coming forward, felt she had the closure she wanted, and believed—or wanted to believe—that he wouldn't do it again.

But that's exactly what Neil wanted.

We now know that was a blatant lie. Not only did Neil target at least one other woman afterward, but Claire wasn't his first victim, nor likely his second or third. Not only is he a liar, he’s a GOOD liar. Here is this woman, Clair, who is finally calling him out on his bullshit, ready to hold him accountable for his bad behavior, is saying “No, I didn’t kiss you first, you kissed me first,” and “No, that’s not an excuse.” She still walked away believing (or wanting to believe) his apology was sincere and that he wouldn't do it again, even though he probably knew full well he was going to strike again. If he could convince Claire, in that situation, that he was genuine, imagine what else he's lied about, covered up with PR, lawyers, editing, rehearsing, and years of practice.

Actually, we don't have to imagine, because we already know. For years, Neil has constructed this persona of someone safe, someone who champions believing women, diversity, inclusion, and all these noble causes. Much of his fanbase resonated with these values and looked up to him for it. Hell, I used to think that man was a national treasure. And now we have to cope with the realization that the persona our hero constructed is a complete fucking farce.

Edit: So apparently, one of the newest allegations comes from a woman who had a bad encounter with him in the fucking 80s. Y'all, he's been at it for like 40 fucking years. That's longer than some of his survivors have been alive. I can't even...

[velveetacrackncheese]

I know it's been like forever, but are you still a fan of Viv and her work

Honestly when it comes to her, no. Even if there's some things I've learned to appreciate in some of her more recent stuff (Except Hazbin S1, I thought it was genuinely awful and the more I think about it the more disappointed I truly am with it.) my main gripe is that it seems that Viv still treats people like crap. My opinion of her has continuously waned over the years from someone who was obsessed and having had a parasocial relationship with her and her work, to the point where I felt obligated to defend her for the sake of the "fandom" back then. Pretty wack behavior coming from myself honestly, and like I said I was a prick! I treated naysayers and critics of ZP like garbage, and while there was venom being flung towards me and other fans as well, some of it also being cruel and uncharitable, I can't pretend I didn't contribute to the toxic culture emanating from her fanbase. It's very interesting to see that the more modern incarnation of Viv's fanbase is arguably still just as toxic, but on a bigger scale. People no matter where you go, and regardless of when in time, seems to have a strong opinion of her. Either love her to death or hate her to the point where that becomes its own obsession. Well, unless you've actually had a connection with her, it seems like you're either one of her favorites, or someone who she burnt bridges with.

There's of course the genuine non-drama stuff, like ohhhh fuck dude, she drew some weirdo shit which I could honestly care less about. There's reasons to not like her, and it isn't that. It's not even really her work period, but more so allegations regarding how she's difficult to work with, cruel to certain past associates to an almost comical degree, and is still pretty uncharitable to even her most charitable critics. The stuff with KenDraws kinda was the nail in the coffin for me, transphobia is not going to get a pass from me, sorry! I don't know how true this is in particular, but how The Hunicast was treated after the Hazbin pilot also left me with a pretty real sense of disgust. It's wild seeing a show like Hazbin Hotel flourish through A24 and Amazon, all the while trying its damn hardest to cleanse itself of its indie roots. Apparently donations to the Hunicast was used to fund the pilot, and after the pilot it kinda seemed like Viv just didn't really appreciate how much they contributed to that project. Honestly, I don't think Hazbin would be what it is today without The Hunicast.

That, and of course there being all the dollcreep stuff, the way that the fandom at the time wrongfully demonized dollcreep and took Viv for her word to the T, following what was a highly uncharitable read from fans which led to harassment despite the drama between the two being personal, and that being made into a public concern when it reallllllllllly should not have been. Transphobia also being an abundant issue in this regard. JoJo as a character was created as an extremely petty way to bash Jo and in hindsight, is incredibly revolting, and ohhhhh also transphobic. The Erin Frost situation, in which of course featured Viv devotees to also take her testimony as uncharitable and lies despite having never worked with Viv herself. Employees being paid like... what, $35.00 per second of animation which is crazy. So not only a toxic work environment, that toxicity just festering cuz Viv herself is toxic. Her tendency to seemingly just bully the people she surrounds herself with, hell even getting people blacklisted apparently? I'm sure there's a lot more I can get into in all honesty, and what's being mentioned here is barely scratching the surface! There was a point in time where I had agreements with what were, back then, blogs dedicated to critiquing Zoophobia and in hindsight, yes, there was a lot to rightfully criticize. Lot of stuff in that webcomic was genuinely not great and despite the immature attachments that I had back then, there were points I'd openly conceded to. Which led to Viv blocking me, and that led to me being pretty sad! Honestly thought I'd did something wrong or that I like... "Betrayed" her which is fucking insane. It was something I ruminated on for literal weeks. I look at my older posts on here and it's so fuckin clear that I was not mentally stable, at least to me, and that was reflected in the wild ass shit I was saying. I'm glad I've changed but dear god I was such an asshole, and it's crazy to think that I was some kind of figurehead in the fandom at that time. Nobody should've been looking up to me, cuz holy shit I was a stupid teenager.

Also, generally speaking, this doesn't have much to do with Viv as a person as much as the early fan community surrounding her work that existed from like 2015 into 2018, particularly on tumblr, but I'd developed relationships with other people in the fandom that led to some pretty traumatizing experiences for myself and for others that I knew personally. I won't get into details about that, but the culture for the fandom at the time housed some SERIOUSLY sketchy people, and there were people who were just open and active groomers. Zero accountability for any of that btw, yeah awesome fucking community, guys. "Like and Reblog if you're a true fan." jfc.

So uh, yeah. Naw I can't say I'm much of a fan, and I'm not convinced that she's actually some nice, pleasurable person, who conveniently stumbles into situations where her alleged good nature is CONSTANTLY put into question due to actions that are pretty well documented and accounted for. I've still watched Helluva Boss episodes, although at this point it feels like I'm beating myself because I've progressively grown more disenchanted with it as time has passed on. Despite that, it's still Spindlehorse's best stuff. I say Spindlehorse in particular because while I don't really respect Vivienne, I respect the crew who are the backbone of those episodes. Hazbin has some narrative themes that I'm not particularly fond of, the pacing is a mess, and the character writing is not good. Characters have entire musical numbers dedicated to them despite either serving a very minor role in the story or just being absent for the entirety of the season. I'd go on and list my gripes with ZP, but it feels weird to bash something that is nearly a decade old now. Probably doesn't represent Vivienne's current capacity for craftsmanship, visually speaking, and in regards to the writing; Were I to go back and review what those old critique blogs had to say, I'd probably add onto them instead of being as dismissive as I was.

Also, something I can attest to personally, and you'll have to take me for my word on this, but I used to be a $50 patron to her Patreon. One of the benefits was that you got to be a part of her discord server where she'd chat with fans once a month and I got to be in a few of those vc chats. I recall her being petty even then, and if my memory doesn't fail me, there was a time where she like... called someone's older brother a f*ggot because he insulted Kesha and her general preferences in music lmfao. She genuinely got upset and all teary over that confrontation and ended the call early, and the other people in the vc were tryna comfort her. Looking back that now, feels so.... weird. Shit, I mean charging people so they have the chance to just talk to you, monetizing that feels weird, and kinda gross. Wish I could have my money back for that, ngl. No Bueno.

[snake-and-mouse]

Read an article about the announcement and must rant a tad more because some of the quotes.

I resent the idea Watchertv is happening because as a fanbase we've "matured in taste" past content fit for YouTube, for a number of reasons, but primarily because I never ever went to these men for mature tastes. Or highly produced tv shows. I went for fun, and to relax. Easy, comforting content, that is actually worse when made more expensive and complicated.

Feels like going to an ice cream shop you've eaten at since you were a teenager, and it's been getting rid of its fun flavours or simple favourites for a while, which sucks, but you'll try new things, even if they have a lot more faff than you really care for, just cuz you want to support the business (but maybe don't really go as often now)

And then suddenly one day it's a brewery, and they go "Well, the owners were always passionate about craft beer. And we served a few alcoholic choices and they sold, so obviously this is the next step. And we're all really into the quality of different alcohol we can sell. You're more mature so you want that now, right? Not ice cream? We're really doing this to give you the best product. You're excited we've moved on from ice cream, right?"

NO. I'M NOT EXCITED. I DO NOT WANT THAT. I WANT ICE CREAM. AND IF I DID WANT ALCOHOL, I WOULDN'T BE HERE, WHERE I GO TO BUY ICE CREAM. I'D GO TO SOMEONE WHO I TRUST TO BREW A BEER I LIKE. I DON'T EVEN LIKE YOUR BEER I JUST BOUGHT IT ONCE ALONG WITH MY ICE CREAM TO BE SUPPORTIVE.

And now the brewery also has a cover charge just for being there, and is age restricted, so even the small amount of ice cream they are still going to sell? Most people who want that ice cream can't come in.

[chaifootsteps]

for anon who was frustrated - things have come a long way already, so don't lose heart

Most of Hazbin's reviews were lukewarm and a lot of Internet reviewers said it was a massive disappointment compared to the pilot. Helluva Boss has seen a massive drop in views and there's pretty clear signs that they're struggling to get the support they once did outside of that, given they're doing often subpar quality merch drops after every episode (even shorts!) now.

The Full Moon/Apology Tour releases have really turned off a lot of the audience who are realizing what others have been warning them about for a long time - Stolas is likely never going to be held accountable in a way that makes what a sucky character he is, instead Viv is just going to keep trying to retcon and engage in other bad writing to dig herself out of a hole of her own making in order to push an OTP that even some of its most die hard stans seem increasingly disillusioned with. I'm seeing a lot more discontentment with the show, especially the Stolas shilling, on the once positive Helluva Boss reddit. and once the rest of the episodes come out at the end of the year, if Stolas sees no meaningful consequences at all and is just woobified again then it's going to get harder for fans to keep coping and using the 'it'll get good if you just wait!' excuse

And I don't think people will forget the mess around Poison that easily, especially since the pile of evidence of unprofessional/exploitative behavior from Viv and Spindle is growing. Crediting and bad pay issues are increasingly common to hear about nowadays and the claim that Spindle is 'indie' is starting to ring increasingly voice now its own that outsourcing to Toon City is going on. Not to mention that Viv seems to get into Twitter drama every other month, which isn't helping

Meanwhile, all the pilot cast that everyone loved that she tossed to one side (which there's evidence of) are going on to do bigger and better things in communities that actually care for them. Lackadaisy and TADC are really stealing the indie thunder and they're far better quality made by (in LD's case, can't speak for Glitch) much more ethical and supportive production houses, and Far Fetched is coming along at some point, too

Viv may never flame out the way people might be hoping she will. It might not be a big explosive downfall that gets someone to do a two hour YouTube expose that causes general awareness of the whole mess of stuff around Spindle. But I think there are enough signs that things are going south to trust that she's not going to make anything that's a classic, she's not going to be respected in the industry and she's not going to be able to keep it up forever

People keep comparing her to Butch Hartman but I kinda feel she might end up more like RWBY/Rooster Teeth did. RWBY started out with this real indie underdog spirit and had talented people on the staff (Monty and Shane, one who died tragically young and the other who left the company) but it all got squandered by the other, more amateur writing. They shared Viv's tendency to engage with criticism poorly (in their case, only responding to the bad faith stuff), they too were way too precious about their characters to give them real flaws as well as having Viv's tendency to let self inserts and faves steal the show, plus the amateurish and bad worldbuilding

I don't know if Rooster Teeth ever crunched and underpaid the way Spindle seems to, but since people often seem to put art before their consideration of whether it was made ethically, I think that will ultimately be Viv's downfall. Some of her fanbase are happy to ignore allegations of credit issue, crunch and embarassingly low wages so long as they get their demon show. But if their demon show keeps getting worse and worse (and taking longer and longer to come out), their attention will probably wander elsewhere, which has already started to happen

Combine that with anything that comes out as a result of NDAs expiring and my bet is Spindle will face consequences mostly in the form of more and more fans just quietly turning away from their show and them bleeding money more and more until it's unsustainable to hope to make all four seasons of HB unless the venture becomes wholly outsourced. Same with Hazbin - it might get renewed for more seasons but that doesn't mean those seasons will be good. The love and optimism people had towards Viv's work is just gone now. And if we're being real she's been trying to coast on goodwill from the HH pilot for a long time now

All important things to keep in mind. Thanks for this, Anon.

I think a lot of people are counting on this big, dramatic downfall of Vivziepop and for HH to be cancelled and then none of us have to hear about her ever again -- which isn't impossible, nothing's impossible -- but it's a lot more likely that each round of drama takes something out of her reputation, and eventually down the line she just kind of putters out, replaced by bigger and better shows.

Whether it got 1 season or goes on to have 12, Hazbin's legacy was always pretty safe. Viv's is a lot less certain.

[mxlktxa]

ʜᴇᴀᴅʟɪɴᴇꜱ

ᴍᴏᴅᴇʀɴ!ᴀᴜ

ᴘᴀɪʀɪɴɢ: ᴄᴇʟᴇʙ!ᴇʟʟɪᴇ ᴡɪʟʟɪᴀᴍꜱ x ꜰ!ʀᴇᴀᴅᴇʀ

ᴄʜᴀʀᴀᴄᴛᴇʀꜱ; ᴇʟʟɪᴇ ᴡɪʟʟɪᴀᴍꜱ*, ʀᴇᴀᴅᴇʀ, ɪɴᴛᴇʀᴠɪᴇᴡᴇʀꜱ

ᴄᴡ; ɪɴᴠᴀꜱɪᴠᴇ Qᴜᴇꜱᴛɪᴏɴꜱ, ʟᴀɴɢᴜᴀɢᴇ, ꜱᴛʀᴀᴘ-ᴏɴ ᴜꜱᴇ (ʀ ʀᴇᴄᴇɪᴠɪɴɢ), ᴛᴇᴀꜱɪɴɢ/ᴘʀᴀɪꜱɪɴɢ, ɴɪᴄᴋɴᴀᴍᴇꜱ/ᴘᴇᴛ ɴᴀᴍᴇꜱ

ᴡᴄ; 1.1ᴋ ᴡᴏʀᴅꜱ, 6.0ᴋ ᴄʜᴀʀᴀᴄᴛᴇʀꜱ

‘Famous singer/songwriter and artist, Ellie Williams seen with famous actress and singer/songwriter Y/N’

‘Songwriter Ellie Williams, leaving the studio with Y/N? Is this the internet's new favorite couple?’

“So, as you know, we’ve seen some things about you and Y/N. Is there anything you’d like to share about the two of you with your fans?”

“I wish there was something to share. We’re just good friends. I’m just trying to see if I actually want to get into the acting industry. She’s my—, like… I don’t know, she’s my decoy. My practice, if you wanna put it like that.”

“Look, we know this isn’t a very appropriate question and it’s been asked a lot. Y’all are fuckin’?”

“Who?”

“C’mon, Ellie! You and Y/N, of course! We gotta know. Give us the scoop, man.”

“Jesus, no. I’ve got my eyes set on somebody else anyways, she’s just a good friend.”

“You two, Y/N and you, have been spotted together a whole bunch lately. Is there any reason or coincidence to it?”

“I mean, no. Other than just she brings me with her to check out what the acting industry is really like. It’s… It’s crazy, honestly. Props to her for having the courage for that, she’s a fucking… She’s super fucking strong.”

Blah, blah, fucking-blah. I hated all these stupid fucking articles and interviews with the same dumbass questions. Why did people have to know my relationship status with someone else? Why did they care so much? Why is it a problem for people who don’t know either of us? Just let us live our fucking lives, good-fucking-god. Can I just live my life the way that I want to without being harassed about my love life?

Y/N and I had met at an award ceremony, both fairly new to the respective careers we had gotten ourselves into. We were both assigned to open the show and also seated next to each other. She's such a lovely girl, super chill and respectful. She also minds her business when she's supposed to and never bothers anyone. But her fanbase? I don't know how or why she deals with any of the men she's attracted, but good on her.

I couldn't even be mad at the people asking such invasive questions because here I was, in a hotel room with her, burying my strap deep into her, face contorting into such a wonderful face that I needed to be engraved into my mind. She was so sweet and delicate, a wonderful view to just gaze upon. She sat on my lap as I used my hands to guide her hips down and push my hips up into her. The drool slipping from her lips, hanging from the corner let me know just how much she was really enjoying our time together.

"Fuck, Ellie, I can't do this anymore, I can't take it," a rich whimper came from the gorgeous figure above me, hands gripping onto my shoulders like crazy. A smirk grazed my face as her teary eyes came to meet mine, begging for us to come to an end. I couldn't help but lift her ever-so-slightly so she would offer me yet another cry from those beautiful lips of hers.

I couldn't respond to her. No way, no how. I tilted my head to glance down at the mess she was making on my lap, chuckling at how crazy it was. One hand slid up to her slightly parted lips, thumb slipping in to press down on her tongue. Those lovely moans were now muffled, hips grinding on mine to create that friction she had loved so dearly, starting to now shake at the euphoric sensation she had been receiving for the past hour and a half.

"Oh, but you're taking me so well, princess. How many times have you finished, hm? It's a fucking disaster down there, y'know."

As much as she wanted to respond to me, we both knew she couldn't. She was sucking on my thumb at this point, those delicious sobs still detectable. Chuckling at her attempts, my arms wrapped around her waist as I shoved my face into her chest to lick from her sternum to just below her neck while my thumb had left her oral cavity.

"You're so cruel, Els."

"I'm cruel? You really think so?"

"Mhm. I can't take this. It's too much, I'm so shaky."

She was not kidding about that. She was shaking like a little chihuahua, holding onto me for dear life. I hummed at her situation, peeling away so sluggishly.

"My sweet girl," I whispered, "I'll let you lay down next time. I promise."

"You said that last time and had me against a wall for a full forty-five minutes."

"You looked so angelic. What was I supposed to do? Give you what you want?"

"Yes!" She pouted, though there was a slight smile in that pout she gave me. I shook my head at her, helping her up from my lap as she tried not to fall over and eat shit. I should really give her a break but... She's all good. I know she is.

“I wish we didn’t have to hide this shit anymore,” her face rose up only to hide in the crook of my neck, sighing softly as she ran her hands up and down my arm, “if only people could mind their own fucking business.”

“We could always just say fuck it and go public. I don’t care anymore, they already know.”

Y/N’s eyes popped up, all wide and happy, a lovely smile taking over the pout I knew she had set up just seconds ago. I nodded to her, sitting her in the chair I was in, grabbing her a damp rag and her clothes that had been dumped on the bed.

“But that’s only if you’re willing to answer some questions people ask.”

“I don’t care. As long as you’re okay with it then I am too.”

Shrugging, I cleaned her up, taking my time when I came to run the rag over her still hardened nipples and her cunt which still was glistening in the dim lights. Her chuckle brought me back to looking at her, speeding up the process before kissing her forehead.

“So,” I chuckled, “that song we recorded is getting released at midnight and you are going on tour with me. You think that’s enough confirmation from the both of us?”

“Oh definitely. If they need more, sucks to be them.”

“Okay, fair enough.”

“What are we gonna do? Put out a sex tape?”

“I mean…” I smirked softly, glancing at our phones on the bed, “we—,”

“Shut up, Ellie,” a giggle cut me off while her hand beckoned me over, “you get an hour and a half. Go crazy,” her legs spread open, the heaven’s calling my name as I stared down at her glistening core.

“You know me so well.”

[genericpuff]

All That Glitters is Not Feminism - An Analysis of LO's Brand of "Feminism" and What Remains of its Fanbase (A Prologue)

So I referenced a certain article in a recent reblog/ask response and I just need to talk about it because what the actual fuck-

This has to have been written by either a bot or a hater who's reached peak god tier level at playing the long con sarcasm game because NOTHING about this feels sincere or even factual. Much of it almost has to be read in a mocking tone for it to make any real sense.

It says "Lore Olympus" (literally in quotations) in just about every single paragraph over and over again and every single talking point revolves EXCLUSIVELY around Persephone, which I suppose comes as no surprise considering that seems to be all the comic - and its fanbase - cares about at this point.

I really love (/s) how Persephone's "evolution" is being naive and then 'blossoming' into an independent woman who relies entirely on the rich man who groomed her to solve all her problems.

Also all she's done since becoming Queen of the Underworld is abuse lower class people. That's the stuff feminist dreams are made of <3

While we're talking about the main leads, "poster child" is definitely a word for Hades, I think a more appropriate term would be "literal child". And boy howdy, 'god of consent' sure is a title to give the guy who ripped out a lower class satyr's eyeball and beat him half to death.

This man owns slaves, btw. And both he and his "powerful wife" are equally horrible to lower class people, especially women.

This is hands-down the funniest section of the article and we're only three bullet points in.

Thetis and Persephone have never even so much as spoken one word to each other outside of the courtroom that Thetis technically put her in after plotting against her for an entire season.

Eros is a man. Nothing wrong with that but it comes with the unintentional icky hilarity of implying that because Eros is the gay best friend, that means he's a woman.

They literally don't read this fucking comic-

Everyone always relies on this weird talking point of Demeter not being able to "let Persephone go"... y'all, she just didn't want Persephone to outright move to Olympus, she wanted her to commute. That was it! That was literally the only problem! She wasn't preventing Persephone from pursuing a higher education or telling her she wasn't allowed to work, she literally fucking encouraged it! And with the added later context of Persephone killing a bunch of mortals - and, ironically, the fact that Persephone was assaulted/put in harm's way by TWO SEPARATE MEN in the first two days of her time in Olympus - yeah, I don't blame Demeter for not wanting her daughter to move cold turkey actually LOL

Also hilarious that they claim Rachel has turned "tradition" into "innovation" when the only thing she's managed to do is set back modern feminism in her young adult readers by 80 years and re-establish misogynist brainwashing in her adult ones. Rachel, your fanbase was literally shipping a victim of abuse with her abuser just a few days ago.

oh boy this is uh

this is some cult shit ngl

and the "rewriting the script of Greek mythology" part is VERY concerning knowing what we know about Lore Olympus and who it was written by. This is literally cultural appropriation, full stop, and it exists because Lore Olympus - and works like it, made by people like Rachel - exists.

I can't even commit to the original theory that this was written by a bot because it all feels very pointed and intenetional. This is being written by someone who, at the very least, REALLY sucks at media analysis and writing, because the entire article is just "Lore Olympus, buzzword, Lore Olympus, buzzword, buzzword, Lore Olympus", it's like a white knight incantation for guilty virtue signallers who have zero clue what they're talking about. And at worst, yes, it's appropriation from someone who doesn't mind taking a culture's stories and myths and promoting their erasure by people outside of the culture like Rachel.

And that's it, that's literally the article lmao

*EDIT: There was a section here before addressing the writer of the article from a very opinionated POV that, while isn't unusual for what I do here, did feel necessary to remove after I was contacted by the article writer who addressed the flaws in their original article and is now seeking to correct them with revisions/an article rewrite. So I felt it only fair as a compromise to at least remove that section as it really doesn't have a whole lot to do with this post as a whole and can be removed without entirely ruining the flow of this analysis. If/when that article is rewritten, I'll be revisiting this post and my overall analysis !

And honestly, it's all really telling, because this does accurately reflect the state of the LO fanbase.

Not only do many of the people who defend this comic like it's their job not pick up on the blatant misogynist tones that are going on in its narrative (I can't even call them "undertones" anymore, they're no longer that subtle) but whether or not they even read the comic at all is up for debate with how much stuff they tend to get wrong in their own arguments and justifications. And this is something that's VERY regularly seen in the fanbase discussions, readers will constantly be unaware of things that happened because they skimmed through it at lightning speed just to see if Hades and Persephone kiss and so they can get the top comment on Webtoons so they can be "ahead of the fanbase". It's no wonder that Rachel has gotten used to getting away with retconning things because her fanbase didn't even read what she established the first time.

Rachel's fanbase was literally defending the romance ship of an abuser and his victim on the newest FP episode preview. When that FP episode came out two nights ago and Hera said, point blank, that he didn't love her but abused her, I could only think of that portion of the fanbase who was very audibly simping over Kronos in the IG comment section. Are they actually having their moment of shameful clarity now? Or are they just gonna move the goalposts and pretend that didn't happen?

I don't want to say anything bad about Shelby here because she really seems like she's fighting for her life on this site that she's trying to get off the ground, but a lot of her other articles also come across as very one-note while being peppered with buzzwords that make it seem like what she's talking about is "progressive" when it really isn't. Case in point, Lessons in Chemistry has been commonly criticized for not actually appealing to the demographic that its Mary Sue-ish main character is supposed to represent - women in STEM career fields.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Lore Olympus is not 'feminism', it's white feminism that is designed to appeal to predominantly heterocis white women who think the solution to misogyny is to willingly submit to it and accept the status quo - that it's "empowering" if the woman is smiling and having all her needs paid for by a man. Sure, I can accept that different women will be looking for different relationship dynamics, some women genuinely are happy being in a relationship where they support their husbands first and foremost. But can that truly be called feminism? Or is the real feminism the choices we make along the way that we should be given the freedom to make?

It says a lot about the folks who tend to regularly prop up LO on a pedestal like this as some "revolution in feminism" despite the contrary after spending more than just 30 seconds skimming the attention-grabbing art, and Shelby is just one of many. She's not the worst of the bunch, though.

That goes to someone else who I want to give proper light to in their own essay. Someone who definitely earned a good stern talking-to this past week and has, thankfully, had consequences dished out to her for her horrible actions towards queer POC writers.

If you know, you know. If you don't, buckle up.

[ioniansunsets]

may i please have some heartsteel yone/f!reader? i haven't seen much of my beloved producer 🥺

✖ Heartsteel!Yone x Reader ✖

✖ Word Count: 2k

✖ Tags: Long Term Established R/S

✖ A/N: You get together with Yone 10 years ago in Japan. HC Yone as someone who started out DJ-ing at clubs before outgrowing the scene and fading to obscurity online before Heartsteel picked him up.

----  Meeting Him ----

- You met him back in Japan, back when you visited clubs and actually managed to catch his DJ-ing before he quit. It was underground but it was unique. Experimental stuff that just somehow still sounded so damn good to you. You found yourself drawn to him and eventually going up to talk to him during a break between sets. He fell in love with you shortly after, he had a small but loyal fanbase and having someone like you appear at every single one of his performances really weakened the walls around his heart.

- You spent college dropping by any of Yone's appearances throughout your fall quarter and as school went on and as winter break came over, you finally found the time and energy to hang around and visit his other appearances too. Some fun mall gigs, cute online streams in the day, even managing to land a dj-ing gig at a local dance competition. You could tell it was hard, he had a distinctive style that was as much a pro as it was a con and eventually he faded away from performing at all in person.

- It was his 'Final Performance' so the speak. That late night in the club, a drink in hand, bright smiles as you had fun with you friends while watching the elusive masked dj on his little stage. It was his final performance. Now or never to confess your love for both him and his music, your nerves straight ice as the night slowly drew to a close. Unbeknown to you, he too, felt exactly the same as he watched you from the stand. The passing comments and small conversations the two of you shared over the months left him yearning for something more with you.

- And it was sweet when it finally happened. Uncharacteristically gentlemanly coming from a DJ. You stayed as the club begun to close, Yone walking up to talk to you just like any other time a friendly conversation before he offers you a small giftbag, softly telling you its a personal Christmas gift for his most loyal supporter, telling you to open it when you're home. You thank him, pushing yourself to exchange numbers with him so you can give him feedback when you're home safe. You curse as you miss your chance to confess in the heat of the moment.

- As you return home, you pull a thin package beautifully wrapped in the little bag. You unwrap it to find a homemade mixtape, all of your favorite songs from him paired with special unreleased works that he think you would like. How he even managed to know which were your favorites shocked you honestly. As you look into the bag further a sweet handwritten note confessing his budding love for you neatly written in decorative paper falls out. Poetic words with the neatest handwriting, you could swear the paper itself was scented too. Your heart races as you listen to the CD while reading the pages of his feelings. The first thing you ever messaged him was a cute " Yone, I love you too." Which Yone has graciously screenshotted and looked back on often over the years.

---- Heartsteel / Dating ----

- You two are the loving parents of Heartsteel, the comforting consistency, the caring confidants of the group. There was just something nice about seeing Yone and his partner of almost ten years still going strong in such a stable relationship that causes all the boys to look at you with such respect. You have fun with them all, you work hard late nights supporting Yone and his work, you look out for him as he looked out for you. You were as much part of the gang as he was.

- Surprisingly Yasuo loves you just as much (platonically), he's happy to see Yone just genuinely be so at ease around you, to have someone be there for his brother that can actually make the man relax? You have his approval. After moving on and joining True Damage, Yasuo would worry seeing Yone so alone, so having you appear and provide his brother with such companionship made him happy. Though, Yasuo does tease Yone a lot, every time you meet him he always asks you if Yone has proposed. He can't understand how you two have been together so long yet not gotten married.

- Dates with Yone were always so calming. Bringing you out to hot spring inns during stressful times, inviting you to cute hidden cafes to work together, comforting jamming sessions late night at his place if money was tight. Nothing embarrassingly over to top yet not so casual that you felt like the two of you weren't doing anything special. There was just something about the way he just knows what you need. As the years went by you realized it was just how Yone was, he was an attentive guy and especially so when it came to you.

- Also it was no secret that Yone looked at self care as a priority and slowly you picked up on his little habits too. Simple yet small adjustments to your own habits. The way you two would go through the motions of burning incense and making tea early in the mornings for a quick meditation and mindfulness session. The loving way he would cook healthier meals for you, how he would be the one buying bath and beauty products, how he would motivate you to follow him to Kendo lessons to exercise, how he would leave books filled with comments on post-its around the house for you to read when you had time. The softest part was how he never seemed disappointed even if you said no to any of this, he was caring and patient after all, he'll win you over into self help eventually.

- The biggest change with the new popularity of Heartsteel was seeing the sheer number of fans Yone started to get. You almost forgot what it was like being his fangirl honestly, so used to your life with him after his semi-retirement, it was weird suddenly being thrown back to your college days of being in love with that DJ at the club. Sure things were different, you came home to him, you slept by his side every night, you heard all his music before it was released, but still... There was something about the way your heart thrums as you stand in the audience watching Yone lift his mask to throw you a charming smile. There was something about the way you knew when he laughed softly on stage, when he waves to the fans, when the crowd cheers, that the cool DJ standing up there was all yours. Oh it made you smile just as bright.

---- During Touring Season ----

- Being together for so long had its perks and its downfalls, for one, you two had a really nice house together, a place you truly called home. Little bits of Yone all around you all the time in the way the bed smelt like him, the way you see his drinks in the fridge and his things around the room. As much as it all comforts you when he is away, it all also oh so depressingly reminds you how lonely you are without him. At the least, Yone was a man of conviction and strict schedules, without fail every day at midnight where he is, when the concerts over he would always contact you somehow. Be it a call, a message, and photo. He would always make sure to send you at the very least, something, once a day. Lovingly checking in on you to make sure you were ok.

- Sure you had your own life outside of being his loving girlfriend but yet, being by Yone's side was such a commonplace that the emptiness of the house felt foreign after all these years. Yone did his best to make sure you weren't alone though, leaving little notes hidden around the house for you to find and read, leaving you a playlist to fill his study with music so you could feel like someone was still there. Of course he still called you when he could but there were other things too, like how he kept ordering meals for you, secretly asking your neighbors to keep an eye out to make sure you were safe at night, how he actually sent you postcards so you could have a physical reminder that he was thinking of you. It was all so sweet.

- If you could make it to a concert? You had the VIP treatment, he was very secretive, not really having social media, no one really knew he was in a long term relationship with you. But for Heartsteel? Everyone close to Yone knew who you were. No questions asked, a VIP pass thrust into your hands courtesy of Alune who excitedly dragged you backstage to say hi to your partner before and after the performance.

- During the actual show it was crazy, for someone whose style was so underground it was exciting and certainly different to see how wild the crowd was compared to your hazy memories of small secluded rooms in the fringes of Tokyo all those years back. Heartsteel was good for him you had to admit, seeing him on the international stage, seeing him having so much fun with the other boys, seeing the way he was just glowing with joy when people actually hollered and cheered at his beat drops. A warm bubbling feeling rises up in your chest as you see him smile the way he does around you, only this time it was on the big stage. You knew he was happy with his own small fanbase of loyal stans but you two knew better, a tiny fanbase wouldn't pay the bills, being so wildly loved, being able to make music, his passion, for work. Having so many new people hear the same style of mixing that caught your attention years back and actually love it? Heartsteel was a blessing to you both.

- When you run backstage after the performance to congratulate all the boys on the successful performance Yone stands further back. A warm smile on his face as he pulls off his mask to watch you hug and high five everyone else, a mix of feelings as he watches you talk to his bandmate. As the initial greetings pass, you finally walk up to him, everyone leaving to settle their own post performance maintenance. For Yone, that was a little habit of searching for you and reaching out to pull you into a hug. A habit that he once had all those years back, the nostalgia after every performance always hitting him so hard his usually calm and cool demeanor would crack. The lightest tinge of a blush could be seen rising up to his ears as he finally makes eye contact with you. Slowly he walks over, a hand reaching out to beckon you to come over and hold him.

" You were amazing up on stage, I almost forgot how charming you always looked in the DJ booth."

" And I almost forgot how exciting it was to search for you cheering for me in the crowd. Especially when the crowd is that big."

Yone laughs softly. A deep melodic noise that sends shivers down your spine. Oh the way the corners of his lips curl up, his sparkling emerald eyes gaze down at you. His right hand reaching up, the back of his fingers lightly brushing over your cheeks, pushing your hair back behind your ears.

" Just like old times my love?"

" Just like old times Yone."

Carefully, doing his best to make sure his hair doesn't tickle you, the same hand that pushed your hair back now rises to hold his own messy fringe up as he leans down. Gently, just like always. His lips press against yours. Nothing too affectionate, you two were still in public after all, but still you could feel it, the way the softest kiss from your lover fills your chest with such overwhelming love. As you pull back you look up to see a smile so bright that it causes his eyes to close. Ah, you were truly loved.

[abyssalzones]

Hello! I really love your work in general and your OSDD Ford analysis, I have read it in full at least three times. There’s a line near the end about his different selves possibly becoming more organizing/appearing at different intervals, but you stop there for brevity. Would you care to share any further thoughts? (It’s fine if not.)

Thank you!!

Hi! Really glad to hear you liked it, wait did you say three times? that's nuts. god damn.

I could definitely elaborate, although I want to note that while in part I did stop there for brevity's sake I did also stop there for the sake of making a more unified point- and, importantly, I didn't want to drift too far into the realm of speculation. Or "just making shit up." I often have a hard time positing something if I don't feel it's being elaborated on from a textual basis... which might be kind of goofy when we're talking about a fanbase that was mostly AU content at one point but whatever I've chosen to die on this hill. Anyway.

All my thoughts about OSDD are highly influenced by my experiences with it obviously, therefore my thoughts are probably going to conflict with someone else's, but I think any "organizing" that would happen with separate parts would be heavily influenced by everything in ford's life calming the fuck down and not requiring a rotating cast of coping mechanisms. For example: a good chunk of clarified parts in real DID/OSDD experiences can be classified as introjects. Despite what you commonly see in online subgroups (no judgment, obviously) these introjects are often of real people that might be influential in your life.

repost of funny little comic I drew for effect ^

in my experience these things work on like... the basis of when they're Needed most. if ford is living in a healthy consistent environment with people who love him and can already provide assurances, I think the need to supplement that with any sort of internal coping mechanism would subside. then again, people are vulnerable when they're still trying to settle in a safe space after trauma, it's possible to invent an internal threat to, paradoxically, make circumstances feel more "predictable." coughs loudly. bill already existed functionally in ford's head 90% of the time so it just kind of feels par for the course that a shadow of him is going to stick around. maybe that seems sad or foreboding but I think it's just a normal part of coping with something that haunted you for half of your life. idk.

do I think these mental aspects would manifest outwardly? as in, like, fronting? not really. However I think if anything was noticeable it'd be a difference between like, "panic mode" ford(s) and "normal human citizen on earth" ford. I could definitely see a distinction of perspectives and ability between a self that exists out of pure survival (and probably still thinks he's in sci-fi hell or whatever) and the self that just chills and writes detailed notes on supernatural plants in his journal. there's also something to be said about [the entire fucking thing I wrote about dead alters and the perception of traumatic events as a type of death] and whether or not a part can actually meaningfully "die." sometimes the part of you you thought was a ghost is actually just scared as fuck and when things get less scary they start to come out of hiding. to put it vaguely.

all of these things can be attributed to other aspects of ford as a character: his c-ptsd, potential hallucinations and delusions, broader themes of death and revival irt trauma recovery, etc. but I think of any OSDD analysis I make as like, an extension of all of those things, if that makes sense.

to close off on a meme that nobody has used in years:

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

You Know Now It Makes Sense Stolas’ Character Evolved Into What It Is

Seriously, when I found this tidbit it makes sense why Stolas evolved from being treated like an actual demon lord rather than the sad woobie he is now. I think she put some of herself in him because she tries to see herself as one of those not so bad elitists who have little care for the poor but are able to interact with them on some level. But yeah, with the fact that she comes from privilege it makes sense she’s having this tantrums because despite her being a sjw she really is someone who hasn’t had anyone say no to her and not to mention it makes sense now why celebrities are coming to her project because she’s getting her rich relatives to help her. 

This isn’t a case of a girl of humble origins rising through the industry this a case of nepotism and she can’t handle the fact that she isn’t being praised and isn’t okay with being said “no”. She has had everything handed to her and can’t handle the pressures that someone is pointing out her flaws. She has been coddled too long that it has caused to become such a brat. As a result, when the time comes for the big meltdown it will probably be when the big mess in story comes and everyone just gives up on her. But even then she still refuse to realize that she needs to stop acting like a primma dona and improve herself. Because someone who has been sheltered that long it’s hard to get out of your comfort zone. 

In it you see the same thing with Stolas, because he comes from a place of comfort and still is being treated like he hasn’t done anything wrong even though it negatively effects his daughter. While Stella can be written as irredeemable and abusive, I think trying too hard to make her one note made it more apparent it was just to make Stolas more sympathetic rather than make Stella any sort of compelling character. She’s just a tool to make Stolas be even more justified in finding love with Blitzo even though it’s toxic itself. If she had made him remain where he was in the pilot then we could see him more of a villainous figure rather than a poor sad boy whose actions are always excused. The same thing with Vivzie and her fanbase where everything is excused because she’s a queer woman and not thinking about how others are speaking out against her. They just see a vision of her that she wants to present just like Stolas when in reality both are just awful people trying to look for an excuse to be the victim. 

[six-eyed-samurai]

LONGTIME SECRETARY

The only ones who could fall in love with Tecchou (besides us, his fanbase) is someone who’s known him for a long, long time, inside out and realizes him for the silly boy he is. And let's say that someone is his secretary…

🌸O-kay, first to get down on how you both met. It's probably when Tecchou has just started his Hunting Dog career and they sort of realize…he doesn't exactly have the most conventional of habits and diet, so the higher ups decided he needed someone to keep him in check and perhaps tone down his more questionable tastes.

🌸That’s where you come in, hired as a “secretary” (because he's also probably horrible at paperwork) but you're more of a PA than anything. What else? Your job also requires you to ensure he doesn't consume anything too…uh…yeah

🌸How does Tecchou feel about this? A little confused as to why he needs someone following him around like this and maybe put out at how everyone doesn't understand why the food needs to be colour coordinated but you're actually super nice and apologetic when you have to replace his food with something more edible

🌸Actually, as time goes by, he gets even more enamored by you!

🌸You don't sigh in exasperation when he squats down to look at ants. In fact you just worry about whether crouching in that position is a good idea for long periods of time and so fetch him a chair or at least something to sit on. Sometimes you even watch ants with him! Tecchou’s more than happy to yap about them to someone other than Jouno, and you're actually such a better listener because Jouno thinks it's a waste of time

🌸You never rush him if he’s running late for a meeting or an appointment, or when he’s late from coming from one. He finds the feeling of you fussing (was he was stressed from all the back-to-back meetings? You could rearrange his schedule if he wanted; has he drunk enough water, was the surgery painful?) and taking off his coat for him…oddly sweet. Domestic is the word. He thinks he might be still woozy from the surgery because why else was he imagining a fantasy of where you both were married, you his precious spouse sending to him after a long day of work? So if course he says so!

(”You’d make a good spouse.”

Okay, out of all the out of context things Tecchou might’ve said this week, this one took the cake. You opened and shut your mouth, bewildered but…uh, complimented? “That’s…nice. Why the sudden…?”

“I just think you would.”

“Um, why?”

“You clean up after me a lot without any complaints. And you're good with food. You handle everybody the same way as well.” Tecchou frowns. “That sounds sexist. It's not what I meant.”

You're just a bright ray of sweet sunshine, he meant, in the storm of Hunting Dog work, making everybody's day with your signature smile, patience and helpfulness. Or maybe that's just him.

“Oh no, don't worry.” Your eyes soften. “I get what you mean…and thanks, Tecchou-san.”

“I think anyone will be lucky to marry you. You'd take care of them well. You're a really good secretary too.”

“Haha, let's not go to the topic of marriage yet…you've still got two meetings, remember?”

Tecchou's still thinking about other things though. “Huh. It's kinda like you're married to me then. Sometimes you do stuff for me even though you didn't need to.”

With that he strode off with those ridiculously long legs, leaving you gaping and wait, he had noticed all of that?!)

🌸You don't judge him for randomly doing push ups during meetings either. Obviously it took you a few times, always getting startled when you walk in to inform him of things and instead nearly trip over him before you finally got used to it. After a few more times, Tecchou even managed to convince you to sit or stand on his back - he'll deny it but he feels really…something he's not quite sure of when you reluctantly do it, but it's a good feeling! Like he's…proud? But of what?

🌸He was a bit put off by how you kept following him around whenever he went out to eat but after you sheepishly explained it was an important part of your job and didn’t really have a choice about it, Tecchou decided to just leave it be. Understandably he was confused as to why he couldn’t eat a hard boiled egg with the shell still on (it’s the most nutritious part, don’t you know?) but then you pointed out the egg whites could match a shade of white bread, giving him a more reasonable diet. The same goes for the fries he was going to eat with bananas, the matcha he was dumping on spinach noodles, the frog eggs you secretly replaced with chia seeds…let’s just say you managed to give him a more acceptable meal and nicely while you were at it, stunning the rest of the Hunting Dogs.

🌸Little did you know one of the reasons he actually agreed to these changes were so that he could share his food with you - he’d picked up on the fact you’d politely declined to some of his tastes, but not on that he had actually been subconsciously wanting to copy the couples who fed each other…until Tecchou attempted to spoon feed you.

(”Mphm!” Your head tilted back in surprise, the spoon your boss had just stuck into your mouth dangling from your lips. You pulled it out, startled and flustered. “Tecchou-san, what was that for?”

He blinked. “I thought you liked miso soup?”

“No, no, I do but…why’d you stick the spoon in my…mouth?” A reason popped into your mind and it made you extremely embarrassed. “Are…you trying to feed me?”

“Sorry, perhaps I aimed it wrong.” Tecchou gestured at the couple making goo-goo eyes at each other while sharing a bowl of ramen at the next booth happily, obliviously. “I saw them doing that-”

“Tecchou-san, that’s what couples do when they date.” You stifled a laugh. “I can feed myself, but thank you for trying. Maybe a little warning next time?”

“Oh. I thought friends did that as well.”

“We’re friends?” You pondered on it for a while - your relationship, while a little too friendly to be considered just boss and secretary, had never been fully defined before. But it was kind of nice. You broke into a smile. “If you say so.”

And though he was the one to call you both friends Tecchou didn’t recognize the ache to be something more growing in his chest.)

🌸Unbeknownst to Tecchou, he's starting to develop a crush on his cute, caring secretary and the signs are beginning to show - very obviously to his co-workers.

🌸It’s clear as day to Jouno, who can hear the very, very slight speeding up of Tecchou's heart rate whenever you show up. He also notices the insane amount of times Tecchou has managed to bring you up in conversation, even for the most mundane of instructions. Jouno might be blind, but it's not like he can't notice how Tecchou attempts to be funny with his broken, serious sense of humour for you.

(”Wait…I'm sorry, I didn't get the joke…? It's very unlike you to make a pun as well, Tecchou-san.”

“I read on Facebook what making jokes with colleagues will help improve relationships so I decided to give it a try.”

“That's very old of you to use Facebook, Tecchou,” Jouno butts in sarcastically.

“Thank you. Is it working?”

You snort. “It is on me, I fear.”)

🌸He's failing miserably, Jouno thinks, even though you laughed. It's very irritating to see Tecchou so distracted by some secretary, so of course Jouno is going to do his best to push them together otherwise he won't focus on missions!

🌸Tachihara notices it when one day Tecchou stopped stopping to stare at ants. Or if he did, it was more of carefully selecting several ants to stow away previously in a container with holes. Confused, he asks him about it - and Tecchou calmly replies that you said his looking at ants was a tad distracting to missions and the higher ups have requested you do something about it, so doing your best to accommodate both sides you got Tecchou an ant farm, which he was…”ant-napping those insects for?!”

🌸Tachihara wonders how Tecchou finds the time to take care of the farm but his fellow Hunting Dog informs him you help out a lot, which reminds him, he should probably take you out to dinner in return. Tachihara’s about to argue he's not exactly supposed to pay you like that until he remembers this is how the both of you are and concludes you must be dating in secret, leaving Tecchou a little bewildered as to why Tachihara told him to bring flowers and chocolates, but he takes the suggestion to heart (you're flattered. Flustered, but flattered).

🌸If asked Fukuchi will say he saw it coming from a mile away (he did not). He DID spot some signs: namely, how Tecchou was prone to constantly texting or calling or emailing or however it was youngsters these days messaged each other you when they were away from headquarters, sometimes for reasons not even work related, brings you up in conversations often, wants to know everyone's opinion on you and makes offhand comments on how good you like occasionally.

🌸But that's about it. Fukuchi did not see any budding romance mostly because he'd oblivious and he didn't think that would happen after you accidentally drank his soy sauce latte one day.

🌸Teruko’s doesn't give a rat’s ass about her subordinates relationships or who they hire or what they do but she'll make a special case for Tecchou: he's got terrible taste in food usually, so obviously she'll suddenly observe how he's eating a more socially acceptable palate and what's this she hears about Tecchou pining over his secretary?

🌸She corners him one day to demand answer because of totally work related reasons (Teruko wants the tea) and announces he and you MUST be in a secret relationship so you both better not be doing anything you're not supposed to in front of Fukuchi, keep the mushy stuff to yourself!

(Tecchou is about to correct her, not wanting you to get uncomfortable if what she says gets around, but realises he is…not opposed to the idea at all - apart from the Fukuchi part, he means. Teruko walks away triumphantly, believing his silence is a “yes”, not knowing it's actually because his brain is still processing the fact that he might just have a crush on you.)

🌸When does he fully come to terms that he's fallen in love with you though?

🌸Sorry pal, about several years later. He's the epitome of slow burn.

🌸Hey, at least when he does, every day becomes take-your-spouse-to-work-day and your pay rise comes in kisses~

[solsays]

okay guys hello hi so a (more serious) post before we’re back to the sillies but like I’ve seen a bit of this in the QSMP community recently and I feel like it needs to be addressed

you’re free to dislike a creator/cc’s fanbase, but don’t lump them all together. Every fanbase has its different parts, and that means that not everybody is the same. I’ve seen this most with Wilbur and Phil mains, how people are like “oh you’re oblivious and don’t care to watch other streamers” or whatever it is, and often they get accused of summing characters/creators up to all they know them as through Phil or Wilbur or their relationships with other characters. This isn’t to say that doesn’t happen, but it’s not nearly as common as many seem to think!

This is coming from someone who has been watching Phil for going on four years now; we know more than you think, and often there are actual reasons for why we don’t watch other ccs. For me, it’s because I can rarely tune in when people are actually live thanks to school and work and such, so I take to watching vods and clips to keep caught up on the events. I am also not fully bilingual (English, and I speak partial Spanish but fast Spanish still confuses me sometimes) which makes it hard to watch people like the Brazilian or French players (I don’t speak either language) outside of clips where they’re playing with the English or Spanish speakers! As a result, my knowledge of many of them (Mike, Bagi, Antoine, etc) is pretty limited. I try my best to keep up with everyone on character stuff, but it can be hard if we’re busy. Another thing is that a large part of (especially) Phil’s fanbase are adults, who have families or college or work and they can’t always keep up with every minute detail or trait of characters, and I know this is true for many other cc’s fanbases as well.

of course, everybody is allowed to have their own opinions, and it’s okay if you aren’t a fan of a cc or their fans! All I’m asking is that we don’t hate on those creators or their fans, especially if it’s because you’ve had not great experiences with some of their fans. Often I think the former DSMP members fans are seen as stupid little kids who are toxic and childish, while in reality most of us are over 16 or even adults. Phil, Foolish, Slime, Quackity, etc were never really the problematic part of the dsmp fanbase, which was kind of split into Techno’s friends and their fans (who were always pretty chill for the most part) and then dream’s friends and their fans (who were and still are pretty problematic a lot of the time). I never was a huge dsmp enjoyer, so I never really watched the lore and preferred to watch their other stuff, but I always disliked the dream team and their little group, they always rubbed me the wrong way.

I only truly watch Phil’s streams, but I’ve taken up watching Cellbit and Fit as well, even if I can’t understand Cellbit sometimes, so remember that we won’t know everything niche about characters because of the language barriers! Don’t be a dick or rude to people who are unaware of certain parts of lore and such because they don’t watch multiple creators, we want to keep the QSMP fandom a chill safe place where people don’t feel hated or excluded just because of which creator(s) they watch, so in summary just be nice to everyone and don’t hate on people just because they don’t do things the same way as you. This community was created with the purpose of bringing people together and breaking barriers, so let’s try and keep that moral in mind while interacting with other fans!

TLDR: you’re free to dislike creators or their fans, just don’t lump them all together and say they’re all clueless or don’t care about any other characters! Let’s keep the point of the QSMP fandom what Quackity intended—breaking language barriers and bringing people together/lifting them up instead of putting them down :)

[atopcat]

I really liked your post about Rhaenicent. What do you think of Olivia’s recent interviews in regards to Alicent’s character, she seems to be really pushing for Rhaenicent despite everything.

Just to start I want to make it clear that this isn’t an attack against Olivia Cooke, she’s a brilliant actress who is entitled to her opinions. As a fan however I don’t like her interpretation of Alicent simply because she’s made it abundantly clear she’s more invested in Rhaenicent than Alicent herself.

Olivia could’ve done a Lena Headey and unapologetically supported her character despite not being popular with the general audience, who cares if people think she’s a bitch, she’s your bitch and that’s all that matters. Instead she sought out the one part of the fanbase who supposedly like Alicent but also has a large universal following: Rhaenicent.

Here’s where it gets tricky, when it comes to ships such as Rhaewin, Jacegan, Laenyra, Daemyra, Jace/Baela, Alicole, Aemond/Alys, Helaemond etc. it’s pretty straightforward: you’re a fan of both characters, maybe one more than the other but you do genuinely like both. Rhaenicent doesn’t have this, it’s a lot more complicated mainly because it’s the only one that doesn’t exist in book canon.

The Rhaenicent fan base is split into three unequally distributed categories:

>1% who are genuine fans of both Rhaenyra and Alicent, emphasis on the genuine because although some claim to be they end up in either of the latter two. The problem with these fans is that they’ve succumbed to the trap of “benevolent misogyny”, reducing both women to being nothing more than 24/7 victims of evil men. They rob Alicent of her ambition, Rhaenyra of her agency, they think these women will abandon everything and run off on dragon back because they’re still silly teenage girls who only care about cake and clothes.

14% are Alicent stans, the majority of them don’t actually like Rhaenyra she’s simply a self insert because there is no one else you can ship her with other than Criston but Alicole is nowhere near as popular because it doesn’t include a fan favourite. In Rhaenicent’s case the fan favourite is Rhaenyra not Alicent.

85% are all Team Rhaenyra, the only version of Alicent they’re interested in is one who is nothing more than a personal cheerleader for the Black Queen. They don’t want to hear about how Rhaenyra’s actions negatively affected Alicent, only how Alicent still cares about her and will do anything for her despite everything.

Both Olivia and Emily Carey faced a lot of harassment on social media, someone even came up to Olivia in real life and called Alicent a c*nt to her face. I know when you’re in a fandom bubble it’s easy to think Alicent and Team Green are just as popular as Rhaenyra and Team Black but that’s far from the truth. So although the vast majority of Rhaenicents are first and foremost Rhaenyra stans, they’re also the ones most welcoming to the actresses who are having a hard time because of stupid trolls who can’t differentiate between a character and the actor playing them.

Then it makes sense why Olivia will jump on board the Rhaenicent train, but it comes at the expense of her character. I’ve read some of her recent interviews, she’s throwing not just Alicent under the bus but also the entirety of Team Green just to maintain the illusion that Alicent’s no.1 priority will always be Rhaenyra Targaryen.

“Alicent is scared of Criston”, he’s her right hand man, the only one who has her back, he’s loyal to a fault and President of the Alicent Fan Club. But he’s also disliked by Team Black for this very reason, he’s openly antagonistic to Rhaenyra calling her a “spoiled c*nt” so Olivia wants to distance herself from Alicent’s most ardent supporter.

“she’s watching him [Aemond] grow up into an absolute killer, which is terrifying for her”, if Criston is President of the Team Alicent club then Aemond is Vice President. You see throughout Season 1 how close she is to her second son, how she relies on him for support, how he truly loves and respects her. He said he wants Luke’s eye as a gift for his mother, from Alicent’s four children she is definitely closest to Aemond but he’s also the one who killed Nyra’s precious baby so fans don’t like him. Again, Olivia is detaching Alicent from her own children so she can appeal to Rhaenicents who mourned their sweet boy Luke.

“That’s what the whole series has been about: trying to get back to each other” this coupled with her saying she pushed for a Rhaenicent reunion at the end of S2 really emphasises just how willing she is to destroy everything about Alicent’s character in order to warp her into the sanitised version of a Rhaenicent wet dream.

Alicent doesn’t care her grandson was slaughtered right in front of her.

Alicent doesn’t care her 6 year old granddaughter was threatened with r*pe.

Alicent doesn’t care her daughter went insane.

Alicent doesn’t care Team Black almost killed her sons in battle.

Olivia’s version of Alicent doesn’t care about anything that doesn’t revolve around worshiping the ground Rhaenyra walks on. So as far as she’s concerned there is “still hope” because her ideal ending is one where Alicent abandons her family, agency and ambition just so she can be Rhaenyra’s personal cheerleader for the rest of her life. The Alicent she’s envisioning is one who will set her own children on fire just to keep Nyra warm.

[mrdogface]

So I finished Birds of Prey (1996 - 2009).

Highs:

known unrepentant homophobe Chuck Dixon accidentally wrote a pretty incredible bi sapphic story during his tenure on Birds of Prey, although much of the queering does come from the artists working on the books. We all know the “call me Barbara” moment – apparently, after the audience reaction to that, Dixon started leaving notes for artists like “be careful and make sure the audience doesn’t misinterpret this scene” lol. 

imo, the realization of Helena Bertinelli’s arc happens in the Birds of Prey. She is finally removed from an environment where she needs and is actively craving Batman’s approval, and she ends up thriving, infiltrating the mob and earning the “good work” from Bruce. Personally, I would’ve preferred if her character moved completely away from Bruce’s opinions of her, and it kind of does, but Gail SImone does close that arc off by giving it to her. 

Gail Simone uses the series as a who’s who of women in DC, showcasing a number of minor and often underrated women, from returning classic characters like Ice to giving Zinda Blake / Lady Blackhawk a second chance at comics relevance (Lady Blackhawk’s best story in the Birds of Prey, imo, happens under Tony Bedard, concluding the character’s arc from her 1950s roots). 

Infinity, introduced very late in Bedard’s time on the team, is a severely underrated nonstarter superhero and it is criminal she never went anywhere. Weird ambiguously Australian ghost girl? Hello??

Barbara as a character who learns to accept her disability. A lot of people, including Dixon and Simone, tend to point out that Barbara learns to be a superhero in spite of her disability, but that’s not the interesting part imo. I think the more interesting story here is that they almost accidentally cobbled together a very genuine character arc of Barbara initially being insecure and doubtful that she’ll be perceived as an equal, as romantically desirable, as a real leader in the superhero world, all this stuff, due to the chair. What we end up seeing is her growth into someone who realizes she’s accepted within the bubble of people who are relevant to her, and that the bigotry of people who aren’t can be made irrelevant simply by building one’s life without them. Her disability isn’t written as saccharine inspiration porn (I think it actually veers too far in the other direction at times; at its worst, it’s a point of grimdark melodrama lol) and it isn’t something she “overcomes” in the classic superhero sense of getting a magical wheelchair or psychic powers, and imo in the superhero genre that’s rare and valuable. The execution isn’t perfect but for me it’s very close. 

Lows:

Chuck Dixon makes Barbara and Power Girl do an accidental war crime lmao. dw, both DC editorial and the fanbase ignore this and the less said about it the better.

Dixon really likes James Bond, Indiana Jones (surprising because Indie keeps beating up his friends) and other travel-adventure stories, so throughout his run Black Canary keeps ending up in exotic locations… and judging the people there, before doing some insane “World Policing.” The racism is uhhhhhhh

Simone ties the Birds into the wider DC universe and it does, frustratingly, hit a point where you need to be either really up-to-date with other books or cracking open google to know who a lot of characters even are. This is kind of just how DC works in the mid-2000s, frustratingly. She’s also forced to work with a lot of off-screen deaths, like Ted Kord’s death should be an enormous thing for Barbara, but we have deadlines to keep and we can’t be certain people have been keeping up with Jaime Reyes, so gogogogo

Misfit and Black Alice. They never worked for me. I hate Misfit’s whole archetype of zany comics fan who acquires powers. Making her Jason Todd-adjacent by giving her the sad homeless backstory did not sell me on her and felt like a cheap attempt to make a nonstarter character function. Black Alice’s whole thing devolves into a “stay on your meds, emo kids” PSA. Just very clumsy 30-somethings-writing-teens material. 

the last arc, set in DC Silicon Valley, kind of sucks. The Calculator isn’t an interesting villain to me. The chemistry between characters after Dinah leaves never feels right. 

it all ends with Barbara believing she's lost her edge, writing a signed note, peacing out, and dumping her adopted homeless kid friend on Helena after getting her ass kicked by the Joker. The last page: Ganthet lamenting that she's in a wheelchair, "to be continued in Oracle: The Cure." oy.

[solart13]

For an art request can you please draw one of your headcanons?

I’m not entirely sure if this would be considered a headcanon or not but I like the thought that Aizawa is more emotionally open around Mic and that he values him a lot.

[Long wall of text of my thoughts and opinions incoming]

Like, I understand the comedy aspect of Aizawa being somewhat of a dick towards Mic seeing as that is how their dynamic is often portrayed as in the show, i.e. Aizawa being annoyed/putting up with Mic’s shenanigans. Their relationship does get more expanded upon in the Hospital raid arc but even then, Aizawa being more of a fan-favourite because, among other things, he’s part of the main cast gets more fleshed out than Mic despite Oboro having been both of their friend. In the hospital after the raid, Aizawa shows a certain degree of dismissiveness of Mic’s feelings, which yes, I can understand may be because he didn’t want to talk about it and that was his way of coping, but remember that they are alone and it has been shown that he is often more open with his feelings and opinions when it’s just the two of them, not to mention that Mic is now his only surviving friend from back in their days at U.A. At least maybe show the audience Aizawa having some kind of emotional reaction to the fact that Midnight, a close friend of theirs, who has impacted his life a lot, ex. with sending in an application to U.A, has just died.

And like I said, I do understand and actually like the more teasing side of their relationship but what I don’t like is when it’s just Aizawa treating Mic poorly and Mic is depicted as the stupid comic relief when his character is a lot more nuanced.

As previously mentioned, however, Mic is just a side character which means the show and the creator won’t bother making him more complex than necessary (often to further Aizawa’s story) which means that the fanbase who don’t think too much about him as a character will just staple him as the comic relief (which I want to make clear is totally fine because we all have characters we focus on more than others, be it a comfort character or simply just caring for one character more than another).

What I don’t like is when it’s clear that someone favours Aizawa more than Mic in the Erasermic relationship and portrays Mic as “inferior” to Aizawa and bases his character off of his stereotypes (ex. being loud all the time and acting immature) and won’t look past that. Fortunately, I rarely stumble upon this sort of interpretation and I want to once again make it clear that it’s fine if you like one character more in a ship, my point is that I personally dislike when the other character in the relationship isn’t given at least some of that focus and is more like an accessory than anything.

For me with the Erasermic dynamic, I like when a clear balance is shown. I personally am a big fan of Mic and I like breaking his character down to its bare bones and giving him more depth than the source material does…so basically making my own headcanons about him lol. But I also like Aizawa a lot and I guess my guilty pleasure is portraying them in a healthy and equal companionship where Mic isn’t the only one who openly shows his appreciation.

So, uh, yeah. That was a lot lol. Apologies for the long wait, I had an exam a few days ago and finally had some free time to work on the request. I hope the drawing is sufficient and correlates to the wall of text above.

On another note, here’s an extra little headcanon of these two being two of the smartest characters in the show, yet not hesitating to egg each other on when it comes to dumb ideas (I drew this in like 5 seconds and barely put any effort into it lol)