#and those r probably the most common headspaces but

[fallenfawnn]

..

[aihoshiino]

chapter 139 thoughts

Because of the content of this chapter I will unavoidably have to discuss CSA and topics related to it, including grooming, emotional abuse and sexual assault. I do not discuss them in great detail, but if you very understandably just aren't in the headspace for that, no hard feelings - look after yourself and I'll see you next time.

Gonna say up top that my review of this chapter is probably gonna read more negative than it necessarily is, because I do not think this was an Actively Bad chapter. It was, however, a deeply frustrating one and it's because of a lot of small things piling up that are starting to really grind my gears.

ai eating sweets with that head empty expression again makes this a tenouttaten chapter regardless of anything else i say here btw

As was foreshadowed by Kamiki's appearance last week, this time we're finally diving into some of the details around how Kamiki and Ai met. I'm a little surprise by how… I guess, unceremonious it is? This is the catalyst for the entire rest of the story, after all. It's the first meeting between the twins' parents and the first time Ai comes face to face with the man who will eventually kill her. Even given to us secondhand, this should be a pretty weighty, dramatic moment but…

there's no diplomatic way to say this so I will say this the undiplomatic way: I really kind of fucking hate that a moment this meaningful was undermined by flaccid incest bait jokes again lmao. I absolutely loathe that any kind of complexity the mutual past life reveal could have introduced to the twins' dynamic and any potential exploration of Ruby's feelings on the matter has been completely tossed by the wayside in favor of just having her splooge about her oniichan every time they're together. I've said before and I'll say again: I think the idea of Ruby developing confusedly romantic feelings for Aqua in the wake of realizing he was Gorou is a deeply compelling one and I would be on board with Oshi no Ko exploring that dynamic if it was actually going to explore it. The way Oshi no Ko leans into and explores the discomfort and dysphoria caused by the friction between the twins' past lives and their current selves is incredibly compelling when we actually get it and it's so baffling to me that one of the biggest, most braindead opportunities to continue doing this has not been snatched up.

We are approaching 20 chapters worth of time, in and out of universe, since this reveal happened and almost nothing has come of it. The most exploration we've gotten of how this changes things is in Mengo's interlude chapter for the twins which just feels all the more jarring in hindsight when the main story has been so stuck on using it for this incredibly tired and worn out incest bait comedy. Like, come on, man. It's 2024. What are we even doing here.

Bitching aside for the time being, I did really like the little scene between Taiki & Aqua, though. Both of them are dealing with some deeply heavy material and portraying real people they themselves both have a lot of baggage with so I appreciate they're given a moment to breathe and get those feelings out. Though again, we are given frustratingly little insight into whatever is going on with Aqua's head right now and given just how much weight and focus was given to Ruby coming to understand Ai and get into the right headspace to act as her, it feels really jarring and conspicuous that we have absolutely no idea how he's done the same for Kamiki.

H O W E V E R. I think this scene does contain a fascinating and potentially huge reveal that can easily be missed if you let yourself be distracted by Ruby; Kamiki, at least as portrayed by Aqua at this point in time, has white stars in his eyes. While I don't subscribe to the idea of In Depth Hoshigan Colour Decoding that's common elsewhere in the fandom, this does undeniably put middle school Kamiki in a closer emotional headspace to Ai than his present day self. Given what we see of the black hoshigan in other characters and knowing that this is Kamiki in the thick of his abuse at Airi's hands, this implies that despite all the horror he's been subjected to thus far this is still a Kamiki who has some light left in him. In fact, everything about Aqua's portrayal of him here suggests a certain sense of kindness and innocence that has yet to be ripped away from him which is very, very interesting. This is, after all, a hateful work written to kill Aqua's father. So this disarmingly likable and sympathetic portrayal of him as an undeniable victim throws a lot about the movie's intentions into question

what i'm saying is even aqua is furthering the kamiki hikaru babygirlification agenda. so true, king.

That said, this scene also comes with its own nits to pick, which is the reveal - or I guess. the confirmation - that Ruby does in fact know who her father is. While we don't know exactly what and how much she knows, I think it's reasonable to conclude that she's been brought on board with at least everything about him the movie confirms. And like… man… wouldn't it be really great to have seen Ruby learn any of that information on screen? Wouldn't it have been really interesting to see Ruby learn literally any fucking information about this revenge quest and the man who murdered her beloved mother and to have to work out how to process all that? Wouldn't it have made a kickass arc for Ruby to learn that even the man she despised for killing her mother was himself a victim of the entertainment industry, to see the damage that can be caused by a relationship between an adult and a child when she herself was innocently fantasizing about a similarly huge age gap between her and Gorou and to perhaps go through some conflict and internal growth based on all this?

but no. splooging over her brother is a much more important use of page time. i guess.

speaking of airi. the image of her carrying around the baby she conceived by raping eleven year old boy, right in front of him at the place she is continuing to abuse him is so incredibly foul and rancid i kind of want to throw up about it. on god i hope hell's hot enough.

It's pretty short, but the montage of Ai and Hikaru spending time together and him gradually softening and opening up to her a little more was really sweet. I've been super interested in the HikaAi relationship ever since we learned who Hikaru even was so even these little tidbits filtered through 15YL's portrayal are really exciting to get. It also lends some credence to something I've been theorizing about why Ai specifically wanted to be with Hikaru - she seems to understand and relate to his experiences with objectification at the hands of the adults and people around him and to feel some sense of solidarity with him as a result. In terms of theming, I always expected the HKAI relationship to contain echoes of AquKana and AquAka - Hikaru is a dark mirror to Aqua, so it makes sense that his relationships would be so as well - and in this sense, I think we can see an echo of the AquAka romance there. In Hikaru, Ai begins to believe she can find a person who can understand and accept her. … or that's my theory as of now, anyway.

And that final scene between Airi and Hikaru… whoof. Genuinely blood curdling. In general, the reveal of just how long Hikari was being actively abused by Airi made my stomach churn - for some reason, it had never occurred to me that it might have run parallel to his meeting with Ai but the idea that this wasn't just a one-off incident, but active grooming and abuse that Airi got away with thanks to her position of power and authority over this child in her care for years… genuinely revolting and I do mean that in the best possible way.

CSA is such a heavy topic and quite frankly, anime and manga are not historically delicate or tasteful in its portrayal - especially when it comes to male victims of assault. Ever since we were told what had happened to Hikaru, I was really on the fence about whether this was something OnK could tackle in the way it needed to be. So far, though, I think its portrayal and indictment of Airi's abuse is excellent. It is not allowed to be a spectacle, and we are shown just enough to understand the nauseating scope of the horror Hikaru has been subjected to. I'm hoping Aka and Mengo are able to keep this up.

No break next week! Maybe one after next chapter, though? 140 will be the final chapter of volume 14 and I'm curious to see what note it's going to end on.

[peacefiction]

Hi! I'm ship neutral but all of my mutuals + friends r anti and most times I get uncomfortable with their takes on certain stuff, I dont plan to ever discuss my opinions ship course on main because I'm sure it wouldn't receive a positive feedback, but it's just sometimes kinda a lot and I was wondering it there were any way to filter this kind of stuff out? Sorry if this doesnt make any sense

Thanks for reaching out! From what I understand, your anti mutuals are posting takes that make you uncomfortable and you want to avoid seeing those kinds of posts without stating your discourse stances & without unfollowing?

If your mutuals already have some kind of tag for these posts, you should definitely filter it using tumblr's tag blacklist system. If they don't have a consistent tag for ship discourse, but there are certain words within the text of the post that come up every time or almost every time, tumblr also allows you to mute specific words. "Proship" and "proshippers" might be words that you see in most of those kinds of posts, so it could be helpful to set them as muted words, for example. If it's helpful for you and you don't mind all instances of the word being muted, you could mute common talking points such as "incest."

If muting specific words won't filter all of their posts, or if muting specific words would filter unrelated posts you still want to see, then your best bet is talking to your mutuals directly. I know this can be really uncomfortable and that they probably wouldn't react well to knowing your exact neutral stance, but there are vaguer ways to talk around the issue. "Sometimes ship discourse can be uncomfortable/triggering for me, would you mind tagging it?" or "I'm not always in the right headspace to hear about discourse. I'd really appreciate it if you could tag discourse posts so I can choose whether I want to view the post or not depending on how I'm feeling that day" are safer bets that they're more likely to be receptive to.

I don't know your mutuals, so I can't predict how they'll react. Some antis are respectful of boundaries like this and some aren't. I hope this helped, and I hope it goes well, anon! ☮️📝

[sleepy-shutin]

Rating “DID Faker Symptoms"#2  - Bingo Edition

i found another DID faker bingo, specifically for tiktok, from r/fakedisordercringe and i have to rate it because this is pathetic.

used to cosplay: if you’re referring to those people that used to cosplay, like, anime characters, and then suddenly discovered DID and now they have a system of 400 introjects and they post videos of them cosplaying and saying “not a cosplay!” but then tag their videos with “#cosplay”, i’d probably agree with you. but in general, i can see plenty of reasons people with DID would have used to or currently do cosplay, so i feel like this is a bit of a broad experience to say that all people who claim to have DID that used to cosplay is a bit of an inaccuracy. overall, somewhat inaccurate.

dream/wilbur/tubbo/etc etc: yeah, i agree that most of the teenage DSMP fans on tiktok who claim to have DID with 100 DSMP fictives or something probably don’t have DID and are just confused. it is more than likely they found out about DID through tiktok or instagram or twitter and then proceeded to only do their reading on said websites without actually trying to understand the disorder through research, and then decided that the myth that “DID is sooo under researched” was true. accurate.

alternative clothing and heavy makeup: i don’t agree that someone dressing in a certain way shows that they’re faking DID. it just shows they have a sense of fashion and know how they want to dress. this is a stupid criteria. deeply inaccurate.

fictives/factives/fuzztives: someone having a fictive/factive isn’t a sign of a faker. i have an introject (’factive’ specifically) of my abusive mother, for example, which is an extremely common experience in DID. ‘fuzztive’ is a stupid term that i dislike quite a bit, but overall this criteria is dumb. inaccurate.

fake accents: some alters can have accents, this has been documented before, if i remember correctly. the reason they come off as poor though, is because if someone speaks only english and lives in america, they’re not going to have the muscle or brain memory to pronounce, say, a british accent perfectly because they haven’t lived there or grown up there. it’s why you get the pronunciations of words in other languages that you don’t speak incorrectly, you don’t have that muscle memory. overall, inaccurate.

on camera rapid switching: rapid switching generally happens when you are in distress, and honestly i find it unlikely that if someone is in that much distress, they’ll be able to whip out a camera and film it unless it’s happening on a livestream and you happen to get triggered. maybe if you happen to get triggered while filming for whatever reason, sure. overall, mostly accurate but i can see some circumstances where it’s not a faking/over-exaggerating thing.

does not want to get diagnosed: if someone doesn’t want to get diagnosed because it may impact their ability to get things like certain jobs that require your medical history, then i can understand that. but most of the time, these people don’t want to get diagnosed because they don’t want treatment, or misunderstand the impacts that a diagnosis can have on your life. it will not take away your ability to drive, get a house, or get most jobs, because it’s not legal (at least in america) for most of those places to look through your medical history. in certain jobs, such as the military, government, and healthcare jobs may require looking through your medical history, as well as potentially adoption agencies and social workers for foster care (i’m not 100% sure on that one), but that’s about it. getting diagnosed will not ruin your life. overall, i think this is more of a general misinformation thing rather than a faker red flag. somewhat inaccurate.

alters dating each other in the headspace: there’s actually several good reasons this can happen. two parental alters may be dating/married because they may be representations of the internal parents that the person never had externally, and may be caretakers. on the flipside, they could represent their own abusive parents and troubled home life. it can also show that two alters have a very close connection in some form, or that they’re pretty integrated and have a good, stable relationship with each other. overall, mostly inaccurate.

opposed to integration: 100% this is some malingerer or confused person bullshit every time, because it shows this person has not done a single second of any actual reading into DID, and shows they don’t understand what integration and fusion are at all. most likely, they learned this shit from the poorly informed communities they are in, which means that they are not qualified to self-diagnose. i say self-diagnose specifically because the people that are against integration are in no way shape or form in therapy, because a therapist would call them out and tell them the differences between integration and fusion. accurate.

several piercings: no, FDC, having a sense of fashion is not a sign of faking. get over yourself and find real symptoms of malingered or factitious DID. deeply inaccurate.

brightly colored hair: see above. inaccurate.

self-diagnosed: as a self-diagnosed person with DID, i actually see both sides to this argument very well and have a complex relationship with the concept of self diagnosis as a whole. as someone who’s been stuck in an abusive situation for a very long time, lacks the money or resources to see a therapist for diagnosis/treatment, and has had to do the hard reading into DID to learn about its structure and treatment, i support self diagnosis. however, that doesn’t mean everyone is doing it correctly. when you self diagnose, you have to do the hard reading into the disorder you believe you may have, more than just a fucking google search and a look into webmd. you have to do the hard reading, read books and papers. you have to accept that you could be wrong, even if it feels unlikely to you, and you should come up with a differential diagnosis for what you could be experiencing if you’re not experiencing what you think you are. you should also accept that what you’re experiencing may not be abnormal at all, once again, even if it feels or is unlikely for you. that is a RESPONSIBLE self-diagnosis. most people on the internet are doing it horrifically irresponsibly, and even handing out poorly-researched diagnoses over the internet to other people. this is incredibly irresponsible and gets people hurt and sets them up for failure. overall, i fall into a somewhat inaccurate.

“endogenic systems are valid”: this is a syscourse topic and is left up to whoever is reading this to decide if this is a sign of a faker or not. i don’t care. neutral.

lives in a nice house: oh, sorry, i forgot people who live in nice houses can’t be abused?? my ex-stepfather abused and traumatized me and my sister, and his parents were incredibly rich, as in, one-percenter rich. he had borderline and bipolar that were undiagnosed for years, and even after getting diagnosed, he refused treatment and refused to get better, and was also a drug addict/alcoholic that was in and out of rehab for years on end. i don’t live with him anymore, and haven’t for years, but since then he has been in and out of my life where i live now for quite a while up until i turned 18. at a first glance, people might’ve thought i lived comfortably because my step-grandparents were as rich as god. this was not even remotely the case, and this is what gets rich kids ignored when they are being abused. just because they’ve never starved doesn’t mean that they aren’t being abused or traumatized. overall, deeply inaccurate, bordering on dangerous.

pluralkit and discord addiction: using a tool designed for systems and a chatting app aren’t really signs of faking. pluralkit isn’t for me, but i know people that use it plenty. i’d argue that a twitter addiction is probably more of a sign than discord and pluralkit, lol. inaccurate.

random splitting new and more alters every week: yeah, this is a sign of malingered/facitious DID. if you’re constantly splitting new alters all the time, that’s a sign you’re in serious distress, not a sign of something cool and good. splitting is not a good thing, it’s actually something DID treatment hopes on stopping, because splitting can and does cause a lot of dysfunction, due to new dissociative barriers, more amnesia, etc. if youre splitting because you watched a new piece of media, if you’re splitting every week, if youre only ever splitting fictives or whatever, consider that you may not have DID, or at the very least, may be confusing kin-related stuff for new alters that aren’t actually there. overall, accurate.

littles who know their sexual orientation: littles aren’t actual children, they are dissociated parts of a whole adult consciousness that identifies as a child due to trauma. they are not real-life children and expecting them to act as such makes you look stupid. besides, many real life children know that they’re interested in the same/opposite genders, or at the very least may know that they like the same/opposite gender more/find these people prettier, but may not understand that they’re straight/gay/bi/whatever until years down the line because they don’t know that it’s an option. overall, inaccurate.

OSDD-1b, so no amnesia, amazing communication between alters: where on earth did FDC get the idea that having OSDD-1b makes you have amazing communication between alters? amnesia is not the only thing that makes communicating with alters difficult, and i’d argue that having OSDD-1b may actually be harder than having DID in some ways *because* you don’t have inter-identity amnesia, which means that it may actually be harder to determine if/when you switch. i can’t speak for OSDD-1b systems, and this is only my interpretation, but jesus christ. overall, deeply inaccurate.

100+ alters “we’re polyfragmented”: having 100+ alters doesn’t make you polyfragmented, being polyfragmented is not “high alter count disorder”, and being polyfragmented is not a sign of faking. that said, many of the people who call themselves polyfragmented are not polyfragmented. if you think that polyfragmentation is just having 100+ parts or splitting a lot, you are horribly misinformed. it’s caused by extremely early-starting and long-lasting trauma and is associated with sadistic and severe forms of abuse. the trauma (which doesn’t have to necessarily be abuse, because people don’t generally beat infants), starts so early that you CAN’T have any coping mechanisms outside of dissociation, not even unhealthy ones, and the trauma can often times last long into teenage and adult years. so yeah, most 15 year olds that call themselves polyfragmented are definitely not polyfragmented. overall, somewhat inaccurate.

typing quirk: having typing quirks isn’t inherently a faker thing, as i can think of many reasons someone might just want to type a certain way. even me, now, typing in all lowercase, can be/is a typing quirk. but saying you can’t control it or “asking me to translate is ableist” is stupid. overall, somewhat inaccurate. 

alter with japanese name: oh, sorry, i forgot japanese people with DID don’t exist? but i get what they mean, a non-japanese (often white) person with an alter that has a japanese name. no, not inherently a faker thing, but is a racist thing, lol. overall, inaccurate.

non-human alters: LOL? do you know what kinds of things can cause non-human alters? extreme dehumanization. being told that you aren’t human. shut up, FDC. deeply inaccurate. 

LGBTQ+ (at least one trans): ......????????????????????????? this is just straight up homophobia/transphobia???????? not shocked because it’s from reddit, but goddamn. inaccurate.

“the body is a minor”: yeah, i will admit that i don’t think a lot of teenagers that claim to have DID actually have it. the younger they are, the less i believe they have done the reading to actually understand DID enough to properly self-diagnose. however, there are papers about children with DID, and what’s interesting is that it seems the earlier you catch it, the easier it is to treat. overall, mostly accurate.

TL;DR

there was a neutral with this bingo 1 time, and remove that question since i do not count syscourse questions for being too subjective.

this bingo was accurate 3 times, and mostly accurate 2 times, so this bingo is accurate 5 out of 23 times.

this bingo was inaccurate 6 times, somewhat inaccurate 5 times, mostly inaccurate 1 time, deeply inaccurate 5 times, and deeply inaccurate bordering on dangerous 1 time, so this bingo is inaccurate 18 out of 23 times.

in the end, this bingo is more inaccurate than it is accurate.

overall, i give this bingo a rating of 22%.

[7-wonders]

Duncan Shepherd NSFW Alphabet

You’re welcome.

A = Aftercare (What they’re like after sex)

He’s a perfect dom. So incredibly attentive to your needs, always gentle to clean you up and make sure that you’re comfortable and in a good headspace. He’s also the king of cuddling, and yes that IS canon.


B = Body part (Their favourite body part of theirs and also their partner’s)

Sexually, Duncan’s an ass man. Don’t ask me how I know this, or what my reasoning is, but he loves your ass. Grabbing it, kneading it, keeping his hand in your back pocket in public (insert Peter K pocket spinning gif). Your ass is perfect to him, and he’ll find it a challenge to rip his gaze away if you’re in front of him.

Non-sexually (but also sexually bc it’s Duncan), he loves your lips. Making them curl into a smile is one of his favorite things to do, and he’s enraptured when you’re talking. If you’re putting makeup on, he’ll sit and watch as you expertly apply your lipstick.

Duncan’s favorite body part of himself is his arms. There’s so much that he can do with his arms, and he’d be fooling himself if he didn’t like the way his veins looked popping out on his arms. He loves when you trace them, as well as when you hold onto his arm while out in public.


C = Cum (Anything to do with cum basically… I’m a disgusting person)

Come on, the man’s a breeding kink freak. He loves cumming inside of you. Period, full stop.


D = Dirty Secret (Pretty self explanatory, a dirty secret of theirs)

He’d love to have a threesome with you and another man, he just doesn’t know who.


E = Experience (How experienced are they? Do they know what they’re doing?)

Duncan’s pretty experienced, thanks to a number of flings in college and being labeled one of Washington’s most eligible bachelors and playboys. He knows what he’s doing, and he can make sex with you kinky, fast and rough, or slow and sensual.


F = Favourite Position (This goes without saying. Will probably include a visual)

I can’t find a good gif :( but it’d be where he’s taking you from behind (that way he can hit you in just the right spot), but your back is to his chest and he has his hand around your throat to hold you up.


G = Goofy (Are they more serious in the moment, or are they humorous, etc)

Duncan’s pretty serious during sex, but he’s been known to crack a couple of jokes here and there. Typically, he leaves the humor to you.


H = Hair (How well groomed are they, does the carpet match the drapes, etc.)

His hair down there is curlier, but he keeps himself trimmed well. It’s not an obsessive manscaping thing, but he likes to keep his entire appearance neat.


I = Intimacy (How are they during the moment, romantic aspect…)

Prior to you, sex for Duncan used to just be another business deal. Both parties got gratification and pleasure from this experience, and then they went their separate ways afterwards. That’s why, when you and Duncan get together, sex is so romantic for him. He wants you to know just how dedicated he is to you, and that involves constant touching and kissing, both during sex and just in everyday life.


J = Jack Off (Masturbation headcanon)

Only masturbates when he’s away on extended business trips. Even then, he’s so whipped for you that he literally cannot get off without either calling you or watching one of the many photos/videos he has on his phone.


K = Kink (One or more of their kinks)

Breeding.

Breeding.

Breeding.

Breeding.

Also, he’s really into bondage. I read this really good Shibari fic that I need to find and reblog, but he goes absolutely crazy when he sees you in ropes.


L = Location (Favourite places to do the do)

Anywhere in his apartment. Seriously. The kitchen counters, the couch, the shower, the floor, the bedroom. If it’s a surface, you can bet Duncan’s gonna try and fuck you on it.

He’s also really into sex in his office, but you’ll only do that if there’s not a lot of people there or if it’s later in the evening.


M = Motivation (What turns them on, gets them going)

Anything you do turns him on. If you wear one of his shirts, or dance and sing while you’re cleaning or doing otherwise menial tasks. Getting upset when somebody cuts you off in traffic, and how you look when you’re reading a book. It’s a miracle that Duncan isn’t constantly sporting a hard-on, really.


N = NO (Something they wouldn’t do, turn offs)

Definitely no dub-con, or anything that would cause you too much pain. Just the thought of taking a knife and cutting your skin makes him so upset; he doesn’t know how people can be into that.


O = Oral (Preference in giving or receiving, skill, etc)

The man LOVES going down on you. He would eat you out for hours if given the chance, and his tongue is otherworldly. 


P = Pace (Are they fast and rough? Slow and sensual? etc.)

He’s a mixture of both, it just really depends on the time/event.


Q = Quickie (Their opinions on quickies rather than proper sex, how often, etc.)

As a very passionate man, sometimes it’s impossible to wait for the “right” moment. Therefore, quickies are pretty common in your relationship. Still, the opportunity to properly seduce and bed you is far preferable to a quickie.


R = Risk (Are they game to experiment, do they take risks, etc.)

Risk is a big part of your sexual relationship with Duncan! Lots of risks (especially with the potential of getting caught having sex), as well as always being down to experiment with most kinks either of you might be interested in.


S = Stamina (How many rounds can they go for, how long do they last…)

2-3 rounds, if you’re going back-to-back. With breaks, there’s no telling how long Duncan can fuck you for. All night, if he’s feeling especially dedicated.  


T = Toy (Do they own toys? Do they use them? On a partner or themselves?)

Going off of the bondage kink, he has a pretty sizable rope collection. You have a couple of vibrators for the times when Duncan’s on trips, but anything else makes Duncan feel like he can’t satisfy you himself. The audacity.


U = Unfair (how much they like to tease)

Oh my god he teases you SO MUCH. Especially at work events or functions. Sometimes he won’t let you wear panties under an evening dress, or he’ll send you dirty text after dirty text. Duncan will absolutely take every opportunity to tease you. 


V = Volume (How loud they are, what sounds they make)

Duncan’s pretty quiet. A few grunts and groans, but mainly he just whispers into your ear. 


W = Wild Card (Get a random headcanon for the character of your choice)

You made Duncan work for the chance to have sex with you. You had heard of his reputation before, and you were not about to be another on a list of one night stands. It wasn’t the first date, and it wasn’t even the second date. After you knew that he was actually serious about you, you gave him the cues that you were down to get down.


X = X-Ray (Let’s see what’s going on in those pants, picture or words)

He’s about average, 5 or 6 inches. His strength lies in how thick he is. He may look like a slender guy, but our mans is packing.


Y = Yearning (How high is their sex drive?)

We’ve established that he has a super high sex drive for you. If the smallest thing you do gets him going, it’s going to be easy for him to go a couple of rounds and make sure that this was worth your while. 


Z = ZZZ (… how quickly they fall asleep afterwards)

Duncan usually doesn’t fall asleep very quickly. His mind is always moving from one task to the next and, while he’s more than happy to hold you until you fall asleep, there’s always work to be done.

//

idk I’m just tagging a couple of people @sojournmichael​ @ccodyfern​ @lvngdvns​ @langdonslove​ @moonanonwriting​ @xavierplympton​

[lucas-koh]

C, R, X and Z for the fanfic asks thing!

Thank you Iris!

C: What member character do you identify with most?

Carl. I headcanon him as autistic and I think we have a lot in common lol.

R: Are there any writers (fanfic or otherwise) you consider an influence?

Well I think all the authors in the fandom are a huge influence because they’re all fantastic and so creative but also crazy supportive. Novel authors? Again, a bit of a cop-out but probably everyone I’ve read; every time I read something—whether that’s a classic or a romance I picked up for free on my kindle—I get a little better at writing and plotting and I think that’s neat. If you’ve read woyl you’ll know I mention a bunch of books there, so obviously those authors for that fic. And I’m just gonna say the Romantics cuz I’m a sucker for flowery, poetic writing.

X: A character you enjoy making suffer.

I seem to enjoy making Lucas suffer… I’m sorry babe 💔

Z: Major character death–do you ever write/read it? Is there a character whose death you can’t tolerate?

Yes I would read it! I’d have to be in an angsty headspace but I definitely would. I also would write it if I had a plot line that I wanted to write. I think I could tolerate them all🥲

[osdd-1bitch]

uauauuaa

hiya!!!! sorry you& are the only system i can think of to ask this so sorry if we're inconviencing you& in any way!!!!!

what to do if we think we might be polyfragmented????

we havent hit a really high number yet but a lot of stuff about polyfragmented systems and their experiences (like the finding a lot of members at once - we just found 3) and splitting for specific situations (like we have someone specifically for handling our paranoia when its weather-based) and i just??? dont know what to do???

should we wait until we hit a high number??? how many do you need to be polyfragmented???? i just. really dont know

again im sorry if this is annoying at all

Its not at all anon, dont worry, our inbox is open for a reason!! We love answering questions, so dont worry about it.

So, the polyplural lables are a little funky in being that the main factor, member count, doesnt have a set number. Some people have said stuff like 50 members could count as a pretty dang low one, and over 200 for the mid-higher range. The most common number youll see around though is 100, so id use that or around if you wait. N dont feel like you& have to fit every point, well layers and big headspaces are common for polyplural folk, s not a requirement

Waiting or not is kinda up to you&. If you feel like you have those symptoms and/or common structural differences like layers id probably put polyfrag or similar on your probably list until you& can confirm by growing. The biggest takeaway i want you to have is that you shouldnt stress about this label, saying your& polyfrag doesnt magically change how you& function. Its just a way to describe what you are already experiencing. Ofc labels like that r rlly important, but s not healthy nor good to stress over em a lot.

 I can reccomend trying it privately, well its just a way to express yourself& and name your& experiences allowing yourself to acknowlege that can help you& figure stuff and help you get past any denial of symptoms. Heck, you can just drop it if you& dont feel like it fits later on!

Tldr: id prolly wait a bit longer 2 do it publicly ig, but experiment n see if it helps! Most important thing is figuring stuff out wout stressing over it, mkay? If you& are polyfrag, you& are polyfrag so waiting around or whatever isnt gonna hurt things. Take things slow, n dont b super anxious. You& can even just say your& prolly polyfrag and leave it at that, its not a do or dont situation.

But either way, my advice is just that, advice! Do what helps and is healthiest for yall, i cant say this is the best thing to do. I hope yall have a wonderful day, and good luck!

-Cookie & Mike

[symptoms-syndrome]

I’m the gatekeeper in a recently prof DX’d system, and our host prefers not to publicise our diagnosis, which I entirely agree with, but I grieve frequently for my past and my own life so I thought I might make my own account to help ease that a little and learn more about dissociative spectrum disorders. Do you have any tips on how to simply- get started?

Hm. I'll make this a multi part answer. I hope it doesn't get too long. I also am going to assume that by dissociative spectrum disorders you mean DID/OSDD, since I assume you're asking about system things? Most dissociative spectrum disorders won't cause dissociated parts the way DID/OSDD do.

Also obligatory "I'm not a professional or a scholar I just read books."

Firstly, I think it's important to identify why you want to learn more, because different reasons will make you want to take different approaches.

Do you want to learn to better understand yourself? If so, you would likely want to look into healing-focused, patient-directed resources. You don't totally need to understand how DID works on a whole to better understand and improve yourself, especially considering how different DID can be for everyone.

Do you want to learn to help others? Definitely more complex. Know and understand that you will not be able to help people you don't know (or people you do) responsibly until/unless you go through a lot of school.

If you want to learn more in order to like, connect w ppl w DID online or something I'm afraid you're SOL. Online DID communities are pretty atypical overall, a lot of the stuff people talk about on Tumblr or wherever are more? Community oriented things than clinical.

I don't know anything about your age, background, education, etc. But if you are going to venture past patient-focused self-help books and into clinical books and research papers, it's very important to learn things like how research is conducted, how those papers are written, and for what purpose. A lot of academic papers in general are written with the assumption you know that sort of thing, and people reading research papers without that context often leads to misunderstanding and misinformation.

For example, with DID, a lot of papers will talk about broad, overarching themes instead of specifics. You aren't likely to find papers specifically about, for example, fictives and source memories, but you might be able to find papers about introjection and substitute beliefs. Additionally, a lot of these papers are written with the intent of treating patients. If something isn't like, an issue that's negatively effecting a patient's life, there's less likely to be research about it. I suppose I might compare it to reading tarot, in that pulling a some card isn't going to tell you there's mold in your fridge, but it might tell you to be more concious of your environment? Bad analogy but hopefully you get my point. The assumption is that you'll be able to use the broad information in a paper and figure out how it applies to your specific patient, since they can't possibly write about each and every individual thing/way something can manifest in a disorder as complex and as personal as DID. You, being a single person, are a small minority of the people who have DID, so no paper, book, or resource will explain everything you have going on completely without having a lot of stuff that doesn't apply to you. There's a lot of common threads of course, but just keep in mind that just because something is written somewhere, doesn't mean it has to apply to you specifically. No one person can have every symptom presented every way.

Also with a disorder as complex as DID, it's best to start small. Learn about trauma first, PTSD/CPTSD, et cetera. There's a lot that probably won't be relevant to you specifically, but it's an important background to have. Like how if you want to learn architecture, you need to learn materials science first, and if you want to study bugs you need to study biology. It's all necessary background information that'll help you parse the information you learn about DID in a way that makes sense, because research papers aren't written for laymen and they're sort of written with the assumption you know the basics. This applies more the more and more specific you get.

Also, of course, papers/books/etc about trauma often have nitty gritty details and case studies. Be prepared for that and take breaks/make sure you have a support system as needed.

Lastly, and I don't know how to put this delicately or in a way that won't make people angry, but prepare for your research to be not at all aligned with your experiences on Tumblr, and sometimes even contrary to them. The way people talk about DID on Tumblr, especially the way a lot of popular blogs talk about DID on Tumblr, is definitely not the most common way it manifests or the most common way people are encouraged to treat it. This isn't to say that it isn't a genuine experience, it just isn't the most common one, and it certainly isn't a clinical one. A lot of intra-community issues are so specific that you aren't likely to find books or papers about them. Some things that are incredibly common sources of conversation in social media (such as pseudomemories, introjects, headspaces) aren't really talked about a lot in books and papers. The primary focus of the research field is the treatment of trauma, so things that aren't necessarily directly relevant are less likely to appear in research.

Be open to being wrong, being corrected, and learning. Just as with any other kind of learning. Nobody knows everything and it's okay to be wrong.

As for resources, I believe the most common books people read about DID specifically are

Coping with Trauma-related Dissociation (patient-directed) and Treating Trauma-related Dissociation (therapist-directed) by Kathy Steele, Onno van der Hart, and Suzette Boon

The Haunted Self by Ellert R. S. Nijenhuis, Onno van der Hart and Kathy Steele (therapist-directed)

There are a wide array of books, I obviously have not read them all. Be more critical of books the older they are, and be aware of when someone is talking from personal experience vs when someone is talking from clinical experience. They both have their usefulness and neither is to be dismissed, but they shouldn't be confused.

Sorry this got very long! I tried to keep it as short as possible, but learning about this sort of thing is really complex overall so it can be hard to be concise.

[froppy-the-frog]

Electric Love- Kaminari Denki x Jiro Kyoka

So, I have never written fanfiction before. But then I read this beautiful fic by shikastemari and honestly I was so inspired by it that I wanted to take a crack at writing my own. Please go read their writing because it’s so good ahhhh. So, my fic shares a similar premise/situation to their fic- Kaminari asking Jiro for help playing guitar for the school festival. 

Note: Listen, we all love Kaminari for the flirtatious, hilarious, friendly loser that he is. The boy does not excel at school, but he does actually possess knowledge regarding the arts (literature, art, etc) and I think we all need to remember that. So, I personally headcannon that while he sucks a school in a traditional classroom environment, he actually really enjoys reading classic literature, has quite a broad vocabulary, and writes down his favorite quotes in the notes app on his phone. I also think he really would enjoy indie rock and pop. Idk he gives off those vibes imo. Jiro prefers rock music I think, but she is listens to a lot of different songs and constantly is recommending songs to people that she thinks they would like. She is very shy but also really enjoys calling Kaminari different nicknames. 

Anyways.

This story takes place sometime before the school festival where they throw that concert. Also, idk if you’re supposed to use character’s last names or their first names, so I did a mix. Also, there may be some spelling errors and grammar errors. Please forgive me if that’s the case. Fic title inspired by this song. 

Word count: 4,948

Part: 1/? Idk I might write a sequel if I feel like it and/or have time

Warnings: fluff, maybe some angst?

Pairings: Jiro Kyoka x Kaminari Denki

Outside sources referenced/used: Practice; The Learn’d Astronomer, Prometheus Unbound, Electric Love

Kaminari Denki had had enough of today. His last class had ended for the day, and honestly it wasn’t a second too soon. Everything today had been an absolute train wreck- between the ungodly amount of homework the teachers has assigned for over the weekend, the absolute bs that had gone down in third period between Bakugou and Midoriya that resulted in a singed classroom and a broken door, and the thunderstorm that had been booming on and off throughout the day, Kaminari was ready to scream into a pillow. Walking out of the main campus building, Kaminari pushed his headphones over his ears, pressing shuffle on his Spotify playlist adequately named ‘jams for when ur ready to lose ur goddamn mind xD’. This was the beginning of the short walk from the main campus building to the dorm building where he lived during the school year. It was overcast. A gust of wind pushing his honeyed blonde hair back, bringing with it the smell of impending. Great, Kaminari thought to himself, another thing ruin today. Kaminari absolutely loathed the rain, or really, any sort of water-electricity and water don’t exactly mix well. His foul mood festered as he quickened his pace, his hands shoved deep into his jacket pockets, and he felt a few drops of water hit his forehead. Yep, definitely is gonna rain tonight, Kaminari thought to himself. He was so looking forward to bursting into his dorm and falling face first on his bed. Unfortunately, this dream would be a nearly impossible task, at least without being interrupted, as he lived in a dorm building with all of the other students that attended UA. UA, despite being the most prestigious hero-training high school in all of Japan, still had its fair share of the typical shenanigans that teens get into-drama, gossip, flirting, Mariokart tournaments, pranks, impromptu dance-offs, etc. Kaminari normally was totally ready to get insert himself into whatever social situation was going on in the common spaces. He considered himself to be a pretty gregarious, easy-going guy. He really liked hanging out with the other heroes in training. They were great to banter with, and he especially loved playfully flirting with the girls. But tonight, he wanted none of that, only hoping to slip unnoticed into his dorm so he could scream into his pillow. After a few minutes of walking, Kaminari reached the entrance of the dorm buildings. He scanned his ID and the door buzzed, signally it was unlocked so he could enter. Taking a deep breath, he mentally prepared himself for whatever was going on in the common areas that laid between him and his final destination, before he entering the common room. Luckily for him, the common areas were actually pretty empty for once, and Kaminari sighed a breath of relief. Everybody must have just gotten back and were probably in their rooms. Elevator or stairs? He quietly asked himself. Hm, less chance of running into anybody else in the stairwell. So with his book bag over his shoulder, he made a beeline through the common room to the stairwell door, opening it, and started his ascent to the third floor. He cast his gaze down at the steps as he climbed so as to avoid eye contact with any other soul he might encounter in that stairwell. He was lost deep in his ruminations, so it wasn’t a surprise that he didn’t register hearing footsteps from another person who was descending the stairs.

“Hey!” A waving hand appeared in his face suddenly, catching Kaminari off-guard. He accidentally took a step back in surprise, missing the stair beneath him, and falling on his ass on the stair landing. 

“Kamimari! Holy shit! are you okay?!” The sound of boots pounded down the steps then Kaminari felt warmth next to his shoulder where somebody was kneeling next to him. 

“Ughhh” Lucky for him, he had landed on his ass and hadn’t hit is head. 

“Holy shit Kaminari, I knew you looked out of it today, but Jesus, this is a lot, even for you.”

 Regaining a bit of his senses, Kaminari sharply snapped back “What the hell do you mean by that?! And what are you doing here in the stairwell leading to the men’s wing, Jiro?” Normally, he wasn’t the type to get super angry, but he had just fell on his ass in front of Jiro, one of his closest friends. His face flushed red, a stark contrast against his honey-colored hair.

“Whoa, chill Denki. This isn’t like you. Listen, I didn’t mean for you fall backwards, I just wanted get your attention, Megawatt. You’re not hurt, are you?”

“No, I’m fine” he said, getting up and brushing himself off. Well, so much for avoiding people. 

Jiro stood up from kneeling and took a step back from Kaminari. “Well, anyways, I was in the male’s wing ‘cause I was actually looking for you. You said earlier this week that you needed help with the guitar, right?” she asked earnestly.

“Well, yeah... but right now really isn’t a good time. I’ve had the shittiest day and I don’t think I can handle any more failure...” 

Jiro stopped and blinked, looking upset. “Denki... what happened today? Was it about third period? Really, you didn’t incite that incident, I was only kidding-” She asked earnestly. 

“It’s nothing!” He snapped, his face turning a darked\r shade of vermillion. Jiro looked surprised and hurt by his reaction, and Denki immediately felt bad.  He stiffened, and looked down, softening his tone. “I just...need some time to let off some steam. You know, get into a better headspace, recharge. I want to be left alone right now.”

“Oh, okay... well, if there’s anything I can do to help or you change your mind, you know where I live.” Then she reached out to gently touch his arm, startling him. He looked up, caught off guard by this. His felt his heartbeat quicken, and he prayed that she couldn’t hear it. Jiro added “Stop by. I mean it.” Denki mumbled a quick thanks to her, and not looking up, made his way up another flight of stairs to the third floor.

He flung open the door to the hallway in the men’s wing. He trudged down the hallway, finally arriving at his dorm. His hand went to his pocket to get his key only to hit fabric. SHIT he thought. I must’ve dropped it in the stairwell when I fell. He swiftly spun around to retrace his steps only to turn and bump right into Jiro, knocking both her and himself to the ground. 

“Watch it, Sparky! I mean, Shit... sorry.” Jiro quickly scrambled to her feet, red faced and stammered “Look, I didn’t mean to- listen, so you, uh, dropped your keys and- I uh- just- here” She tossed Denki’s keys onto his lap and quickly ran down the hallways towards the door to the female wing. 

Denki sat there, blinking, just trying to comprehend what had just happened. Shit, that had really just happened. Jiro looked really embarrassed. All she was trying to do was help him out. Denki felt awful for not only having snapped at her in the stairwell but then having knocked her to the floor. His thoughts shifted from anger from the day’s events to determination to fix things with Jiro. Rising to his feet, he unlocked his door, and quickly changed into some more casual clothes. He grabbed the guitar that was propped against the wall and slung it over his shoulder, taking note to also bring the sheet music for the song he was learning. With that, Kaminari headed out of his room and toward the female wing. When he got to Jiro’s room, he hesitated a brief moment before knocking. Does she even want to see me after having been so rude? Only one way to find out. 

Kaminari knocked on the door and waited. “Yeah? Who is it?” An icy, familiar voice from rang out from behind the closed door. “Um, uh, it’s me, you know, Denki Kaminari, your friend.” He heard footsteps, then the door unlatch.

Jiro opened her door enough to stand in the doorframe. “Yeah?” 

“Hey Kyoka, I am here to for some practice. I wanna be ready to impress everybody for the school festival!” He flashed a bright smile at her, and she rolled her eyes. 

“Alright Sparky. C’mon in”. 

Denki walked in, looking around at her décor. Band posters plastered the walls and tons of different music equipment peeking out from every available nook and cranny. “You know Kyoka, I still can’t get over how cool your room is. It really looks like a music store or somethin’” 

Jiro scoffed “Well, it’s just some stuff to help set the vibe. Gotta keep it rockin’” Jiro sat on the edge of her bed, and gestured for kaminari to come over. He plopped himself down on the floor in front of Jiro and took off his jacket. “Alright Mr. Jammingway, let’s start off with some warm-ups” 

“Awww, Kyoka, do I  have to? I wanna get jamming!” 

“Dude, you wrists and fingers are gonna get so sore if you don’t warm up. Besides, even the legends like Jimmie Hendrix and Eric Clapton would warm up before playing. You’re not any better than them, so shut up and get started” 

“Aww okay. I wouldn’t want tendinitis or anything.” 

“Let’s start off with getting you tuned. Your guitar I mean.” Jiro got up and went over to her electric keyboard, and started off with a low E. Kaminari tuned his guitar string to match, and followed suit with the remaining strings. After getting his guitar tuned, he cracked his knuckles and stretched out his digits and rolled his wrists around to loosen them up. He then started on some warm up exercises, practicing picking and strumming. 

Jiro smirked as she sat back down on her bed. “Wow Sparky, you actually listened to me. You have been warming up before you practice” 

Denki stopped and looked up at her, grinning. “’Course, why wouldn’t a listen to a talented rocker such as yourself? I’m not completely obtuse.” 

“You are though most of the time. I swear, there’s lots of cobwebs in the brain of yours” Jiro said followed by a laugh. 

Kaminari frowned. “I’m really not that dumb. I swear. I’m just not so much a math-science-logic sort of guy. I’m more of a Whitman sort of guy”. 

Jiro looked at him, puzzled. “A what?” 

“You know, Walt Whitman, the poet? Here, lemme look up a poem real quick-” Kaminari reached over to his jacket and took his smartphone out of the pocket. He tapped quickly and scooted closer to Jiro and began reading aloud:

When I heard the learn’d astronomer,

When the proofs, the figures, we ranged in columns before me,

When I was shown the charts and diagrams, to add, divide, and measure them,

When I was sitting heard the astronomer where he lectured with much applause in the lecture-room,

How soon unaccountable I became tired and sick,

Till rising and gliding out I wander’d off by myself,

In the mystical moist air, and from time to time,

Look’d up in perfect silence at the stars

They sat in silence for a moment before Denki spoke. “That’s probably my favorite poem by him. I really just, I don’t know, I feel like it was almost written about me in a way. But I guess that’s the great thing about poetry-it reminds you that you aren’t alone in your human experience”. 

Jiro was quiet. She hadn’t expected such a deep philosophical sentiment from the same guy who regularly and non-ironically used the word ‘yeet’. 

“Um-“ Jiro started, but Denki interrupted her “Heh, sorry. Let’s get back to practicing. I am having problem with the barre chords. I just can’t seem to get my fingers to do that.” 

Jiro snapped back to reality “Oh, yeah, barre chords are hard. If the song only had barre chords, you could use a capo, but since it has other non-barre chords, unfortunately ya gotta learn them the hard way. So,” She reached over to the wall and unhooked the electric guitar, bringing it down to her lap. “what you’re gonna do is take your pointer finger like this” She put it across all six strings “and then roll it to the side so the bony part is up against the strings. You’ll get a cleaner sound and it won’t hurt as much.” 

She turned to look at Kaminari, who was staring at her, his eyes glistening under the fluorescent light. “Um, so, uh, why don’t you give it a try Denki?” She watched as Denki tried to copy her hand position but it was clear he was struggling. 

“Nah, more like this” she showed him again on her guitar, and watched as he hopelessly tried to copy her hand position. She scooted off the bed and knelt in front of him. She took his hand and moved each of his fingers to the correct placement. She looked up from the neck of his guitar, close enough where he could feel her exhales on his face. His heart thumped loudly in his chest and he prayed she could not hear him. Jiro continued, “…See, like this. Try strumming now.” Blushing, Kaminari strummed downward, and a clean sounding chord rang out.” 

Jiro sat back and smiled. “See? You got it! Try it again, upward stroke this time.” Denki repeated, and let the chord ring out fully. He grinned at Jiro. 

“Thanks Kyoka! You’re a really good teacher.” “Jiro began an attempted at denying it, but Denki cut her off “Jiro, accept a compliment! You’re good at teaching and you’re even better at playing. You really are talented.” 

Jiro stayed quiet for a few moments, then stood up. “Well,” she exhaled. “You seem to be progressing really well. I think that if you keep up with the practicing, you should be ready for the school festival by the time it rolls around. I say let’s call it quits for the evening. She looked out the window over her balcony. Attempting to change the subject to distract herself from blushing, she said “Looks like it stopped raining.” 

Denki put down the guitar and stood up. “Yeah. Hey Kyoka?” She looked at him, and he continued “Wanna go for a walk in the courtyard? I know it’s probably a bit wet out still from the rain, but it’s always really refreshing to be outside after a rainstorm.”

Jiro thought about saying no, until an idea struck her. “Yeah, sure thing. Lemme grab my jacket and shoes real quick.” She grabbed her jacket and slid on her boots, then they both headed for the door. They both reached for the door handle at the same time, accidently touching hands for a split second before yanking their hands back. 

“Oh! Um, sorry” Denki stammered, turning slightly red as he tensed up.

 “It’s all good; don’t worry ‘bout it, Sparky.” She smiled reassuringly at him, and his shoulder relaxed. They walked next to each other, heading towards the stairwell. Descending the stairs then walking through the common area, they headed towards the exit. 

Unlike earlier, there were students from 1-A now sitting on the couches surrounding the TV, watching some sort of rom-com. Ochaco, Tsuyu, Tokoyami, Mina, Midoriya, Iida, Todoroki, and Momo were spread out over the couches. Uraraka turned around when she heard their footsteps and called out to them. 

“Hey Kyoka! Hi Denki!” She grabbed the TV remote and hit pause. “You guys want to watch “A Cinderella Story” with us?” 

Mina chimed in “Tokoyami, Iida, and Todoroki haven’t seen it before, which an absolute crime. Can you believe it?! it’s an absolutely iconic movie that defined a generation”. 

Todoroki’s eyes widened “Its a crime?!” 

Momo laughed. “No Todoroki, figure of speech. And well mina, maybe that’s a bit of an overstatement, but seriously, Jiro, Kaminari, it’s a good movie. We started it only a few minutes ago, so you haven’t missed much. Bakugo, Sero, and Kirishima are in the kitchen working on dinner for everybody.”

Iida added “We extended the invitation to the other students to join us for this screening, but most of them either went home for the weekend or are studying.”

Tsuyu added “We stopped by Jiro’s room to ask you to join us, but it sounded like you guys were practicing for the festival, so we decided not to interrupt, ribbet.”

Denki responded “That was real cool of you guys. Jiro and me are gonna go for a quick walk, but we’ll join you afterwards. Its one of my favorite movies”. 

Mina laughed from the couch. “That’s a surprise, Kaminari. I wouldn’t peg you as the rom-com type”. 

Denki shook his head and grinned “A movie with hot girls, humor, and happy endings? What’s not to love? Anyways, we’ll be back.” 

Uraraka waved and said “Alright, have fun! We’ll see you guys soon!” Denki waved back then he and Jiro headed outside.

When they got outside, they walked for a few minutes, saying nothing. The air was still, and the streetlights softly illuminated the sidewalk, slick with water. Jirou and Kaminari walked closely side by side, unconsciously syncing their strides, only a few inches between their hands that swung loosely at their sides. Kaminari finally broke the silence. “Isn’t it nice out? I don’t like thunderstorms much, but I love the air afterwards. It has a weird feel to it, you know? Its… I don’t know how to describe it. I guess it almost feels like it’s a liminal space of sorts, like between good and bad weather.” 

Jiro looked at him confused. “You don’t like thunderstorms? You literally have an electric quirk. I would’ve thought that you would love them.” 

Denki laughed, and put his hand on the back of his neck. “Aha, yeah, not so much. Water and I don’t exactly mix…” 

“Ah, that makes sense. Well, every time there’s a thunderstorm, it reminds me of you ” Jiro replied. Kaminari felt a hot blush spread across his face and he was grateful for the dim lighting to disguise his embarrassment. Jiro looked away from him quickly as to also disguise the blush that was creeping across her face. Silence once again befell them and the continued walking.

Is now the time to bring this up, Jiro thought to herself. Well, she thought, might as well give it a try. Jiro broke the silence to say “Hey, so I, uh, well, so I came across this song the other day and I think you might like. You like indie rock and that kind of music, right, Jammingway?” 

Kaminari was surprised. “How did you kn-” 

Jiro laughed. “Dude, your Spotify playlists are public. I’m always looking for new songs so I sometimes randomly listen to other people’s playlists. Plus, you give off that sort of vibes. Anyways, as I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted,” Denki smiled sheepishly as she continued “so I came across this song that I think you would like. You got your phone on you?” 

“Of course. What kind of teen would I be if I didn’t?” He laughed as he pulled his smartphone out of his jacket pocket, unlocked it, then handed it over to Jiro. She walked over to a nearby bench, brushed off the water, and tapped the bench, inviting Kaminari to come sit next to her. She pulled a pair of earbuds from her pocket, plugged them into his phone’s headphone jack, and then handed Kaminari one earbud. She put the other one in her own ear, then hit play. She closed her eyes, and Kaminari followed suit, listening to the beginning of the song.

“Candy… She’s sweet like candy in my veins…”

He was very aware of how close they were sitting together, how her arm was resting against his, her warm breath on his skin, his knee touching hers.

“Baby, I’m dying for another taste. And every night my mind is running round her, Thunder’s getting louder and louder”

He blushed hearing the lyrics, wondering if she thought this way about him or if it was just the style of music that reminded her of him. If it was the first of the two, would that mean…?

“Baby, you’re like lightning in a bottle! I I can't let you go now that I got it! And all I need is to be struck by your electric love”

The chorus hit, and he got it: it was because it was about electricity. I mean, he thought, that’s kinda a shallow connection to me, but a connection nevertheless. At least she thought about me… 

The song ended, and Jiro turned to look at him expectedly. “So… what do you think? You like it?” 

“Yeah, “he laughed. “That is a great example of the kind of music I like. Guess I have a pretty predictable music taste.” He ran his hand through his hair. 

Jiro frowned “Nah, I just know you, dude. What did you think of the lyrics?” She hoped that he had picked up on the general message so she wouldn’t have to explain it… 

“Yeah, I see why you thought of me. ‘Cause of the thunderstorm metaphor used. I have an electricity quirk. You said earlier thunderstorms remind you of me. It’s a superficial level metaphoric comparison.” He saw her face change under the dim streetlight, and he quickly clarified “Superficial in the sense of like not like ‘uh you’re soooo superficial’ but more like it just being a surface level observation, like not skin deep, you know? Sorry. I do like the song though, and” he took a deep breath and touched her arm gently. “I’m glad that you think of me. You’re a good friend, Kyoka”. 

Jiro’s heart sank. Dammit, she thought to herself, I really am gonna have to explain it. “So, um, I guess like I saw the lyrics as a sort of way to describe how I feel about you. Like how earlier you read that poem to me and said you said you thought it described you. I feel like this song really captures how I feel about… well, how I feel about you.”

Denki took a moment to process what she had just said. Please oh please oh please I hope he picks up on what I’m trying to say she prayed. 

Kaminari’s face broke out into a grin. “So, I think I catch your drift.” He paused, then said “Are you familiar with the work of Percy Bysshe Shelley?” 

Jiro shook her head “I don’t see how this connects Den-“

“Shh, lemme continue, Earbuds. Percy B Shelley, English poet, husband of Mary Shelley who authored ‘Frankenstein’, real cool guy. Anyways, he wrote a play called ‘Prometheus Unbound’ which was like his response to the story ‘Prometheus Bound’ which is like an ancient Greek play… sorry, tangent.  Yeah, so there was this one line I read that I wrote down in my notes…somewhere…” He bit his bottom lip as he scrolled through all of his notes on his phone. “Ah, here it is. It reminded me of how you make me feel” He read out loud:

As in the soft and sweet eclipse,

When soul meets soul on lovers' lips,

High hearts are calm, and brightest eyes are dull;

So when thy shadow falls on me,

Then am I mute and still, by thee

He leaned forward and softly placed his lips against hers for a few seconds. Then, they broke away, saying nothing. Kaminari leaned back and looked up at the sky, smiling to himself. I finally did it, he thought. 

Jiro’s thoughts were racing 100 kilos an hour. THAT JUST HAPPENED OMG what do I do now ahhhhhh. Okay, get it together, Kyoka. She reached out and took his hand. She gave it a light squeeze, and joined Kaminari in looking up at the sky. A few softly glowing specks of light glimmered amongst the dark clouds that filled the void. Jiro leaned her head on Kaminari’s shoulder, and he leaned his towards her in response. Their gazes directed towards the sky, thoughts intertwined, sharing warmth from each other’s touch, they stayed in this seemingly infinite, gentle moment. 

A few tiny drops of water descended from the sky, bringing them both crashing back to earth from the sky. Kaminari turned his head and kissed the top of Jiro’s head. “I think it’s time to head back, Kyoka.” he whispered, making no attempt to get up. 

Jiro rotated her body to face Kaminari, delicately placed her hand on his cheek and pulled him close, meeting her lips with his. “Okay” she softly responded. 

Both of them reluctantly broke apart and stood up, and began leisurely strolling towards the UA dorm building. Suddenly, lightning bolts instantly zagged across the sky above, followed by a deafening boom that echoed through the air. The clouds above broke open, and hard droplets raced to the earth below, aggressively soaking the world in a layer of water. Kaminari grabbed Jiro’s hand and pulled her forward as he ran towards the entrance of the dorm building. He fumbled for his ID, only then realizing he must have dropped it somewhere. 

“Jiro… I can’t find my ID. Do you have yours?” Jiro’s hand instantly went to her pocket and pulled out her ID. She quickly pressed it against the scanner on the wall, the door buzzed, and they were able to quickly enter into the dry, brightly-lit common room. They were dripping wet, but grateful to be out of the storm.

Everyone was still watching the movie in the common room. Tsuyu was the first to notice their return; she picked up the remote that was laid on the coffee table to pause the movie. “Looks like you guys got rained on, ribbet.” 

Jiro didn’t know how to respond, so she was relieved when Kaminari answered for them. “Yeah!” He smirked. “It really just started downpouring out of nowhere, no warning or anything! Guess good ol’ Zeus decided one rainshower today wasn’t enough” He caused a few of the other students to chuckle. 

“Oh, Kaminari” Iida tossed a lanyard at Kaminari. “You dropped your keys and ID here in the lobby. Try to be more responsible next time.” 

“Thanks Iida” Kaminari mumbled, turning a shade of crimson. 

“Well…” Jiro began “I am going to go change into some dry clothes. Be right back.” 

“Oh, Jiro!” Uraraka called out. “Dinner should be done by the time you are back! So don’t forget to bring your appetite! Also, this is a pajama party so wear your pjs!” Jiro smiled and left for her room. 

Kaminari watched her as she left the room, smiling to himself. He heard somebody clear their throat, and he snapped back to reality. “Well, I will probs go change too. Don’t want to catch a cold or anything. That would be pretty tragic. Also, I’ll bring some M&Ms for everybody. Be right back!”. Kaminari smirked as he left the common room and climbed the stairs to the third floor. He couldn’t have asked for that to have gone any better, except minus getting rained on. But Kyoka… she really kissed him, huh. He wanted to talk to her about what had happened outside, but he didn’t want to complicate anything yet. 

Kaminari got to his dorm room and unlocked it, quickly changing into some comfy pj bottoms and a t-shirt, then he grabbed the bag of M&Ms, the lanyard with his ID and keys, and walked towards the female wing. He got to Jiro’s door and knocked, and waited for a response. 

“Yeah?” Her voice rang out from behind the door. 

“It’s me”.

 A minute later, the door opened, and Jiro stood once again in the doorframe, this time, wearing a pair of pajama bottoms with a tank top. “Hey Megawatt, you ready to head back down?” She spied the bag of M&Ms in Kaminari’s hands. “Bruh. M&Ms are actually my favorite candy in the world.” 

Kaminari smiled. “I know. That’s what I was thinking when I got them. You gotta share them with everybody else though too”. 

Jiro pouted “Aww, alright Sparky, I will. I’m not gonna be happy about it but I guess sharing is caring. Let’s go.” 

They walked together towards the stairwell door, and before going through, Jiro stopped suddenly. 

“So, before we go join the rest of the gang, Sparky, um, can we quickly maybe talk about what happened out there? You know, before it started raining...” 

Kaminari responded “I would love to, but I really really want to watch the movie with you and the others, so maybe let’s put a pin in that for now. Don’t worry” he paused, and gently placed a kiss on her check, causing her to cheeks to flush pink. “We’ll talk about it. Tomorrow maybe?” 

Jiro smirked, threw her arms around his neck, and smashed her lips against his before saying. “Alright, whatever you say, Mr. Short-Circuit. Let’s grab some tea or something when we do. You know, make it a date.” 

Kaminari’s brain whirled, but he managed to respond “Yeah. Tomorrow at 1?” 

“Yeah, sounds good. Stop by beforehand though so you can practice guitar more. Ya gotta be able to shred for the festival.” 

“Course.” Kaminari said. “I gotta keep up so I don’t look idiotic next to a hardcore rocker such as yourself”. 

Jiro smirked, opening the door to the stairwell and bounded down the stairs to the floor with the common areas. Kaminari smiled, following her into the common area to join the other students.

[comicteaparty]

April 18th-April 24th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble  chat that occurred from April 18th, 2020 to April 24th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question:

What are your personal rules of thumb for determining whether a certain page needs a maturity or trigger warning?

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i have no rule of thumb and i'm really curious to read what other people think about this

Deo101 [Millennium]

I usually ask people if they think it needs one, and I only ask if it is significantly different than what I've been doing.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I guess it depends on the subject and the severity. There are the basic ones, like rape, excessive gore, suicide, graphic sex, common phobias, etc. Things that can very easily trigger a large group of people or are generally not allowed in PG-13 movies. But there are other times I don't know if putting a warning or labeling it as mature is necessary. For example, profanity, suggestive material, violence (that doesn't involve gore), and again typically things that can make it into a PG-13 movie. Once it starts to be graphic enough to move into the realm of rated R, that's when you should start putting warnings. My problem with warnings as a creator is that the warnings can kind of spoil the contents of the chapter, so I try not to use them unless what happens in the comic could potentially harm a large number of people by not warning them.

RebelVampire

As a reader I do want to chime in say I agree with that last part. Whenever I see warnings, they are very spoilery so there's no surprise when I get to the warning part of the chapter/episode/page. I expected it so it loses some of its emotional value for me. Or, on the flipside, is so minor it shouldn't have had a warning that its ultimately underwhelming and disappointing.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Yeah, that's exactly why I'm wary about it

I am very sparing with my warnings, because I don't want the readers to lose any of that emotional impact.

carcarchu

my target audience for my webcomic is middle schoolers so the content i produce is never something i feel i need to put trigger warnings for. personally i think you don't really need to tag things unless the content is significantly different from what is expected from the comic. like if it starts out a lighthearted romp and then suddenly there's beserk levels of violence that probably ought to have some warning

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

I would probably put a CW for blood, gore etc. Of any level just to be safe. Different people have different sensitivities, and as a sex-averse ace I know I often would like CW on sexual/sex-adjacent content that others might not think was enough to need one so. I just err on the side of caution

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I specifically never put warnings in anything I write. If something I write deeply upsets someone or makes them extremely uncomfortable, that's a good thing. It means I've done my job in expressing and conveying the emotional context I set out to accomplish in most circumstances.

My background is poetry and I've only ever read a single book that had any warnings attached, and that was at the beginning of the book, not for each poem. Even then, it was from an author who was particularly, er, well a bit off their rocker.

Like, if you open a collection of poetry and you're surprised to see heavy topics covered...that's your own fault at that point.

If I had opened one of my favourite collections, The Flame by Leonard Cohen, and saw content warnings, I would have probably said in my head "Why the fuck is this here?" and "Well, no shit that's in here, this is Leonard Cohen."(edited)

My job is to convey and express regardless of what the reader might think. It's never my job to guide or warn them, it's my job to present to them.

Fiction, outside of that catered to younger audiences, tends to contain a lot of stuff that can be deeply uncomfortable to the reader (yes, even comedy). I've read stuff that's really gotten to me emotionally, and that's OK, that's a good thing, the author presented what they intended to (G-d knows they did). If you don't want that, then really, you just have to be cognizant of the fiction you're reading and remember that stories about life often have all aspects of life in them.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I have read things (though mostly non-fiction) that have made me want to cry or so sick that I felt the need to vomit. The author didn't warn me of that. They presented what they had without pretext nor excuse. They did their job. Those are very much extremes, but the point is that I consensually opened those texts knowing that might happen. I mean, it's not hard to look at the subject matter or what the reviews say and think "Hm, OK, this book isn't all sugar and roses". Frankly, though, I just feel that the content warnings and all tarnish the authenticity of a text that stands on its own.

Sorry for the rambling, but admittedly, I do include a content warning for that in my username!

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

I don‘t do content warnings, but I try to make sure to be upfront about the type of story people can expect.

Seen the results of someone springing a graphic, surprise character-gets-raped-to-death into until then fluffy childfriendly story for „trolololOLOL, I made you have a FEEL, I am an ARTISTE.“

It‘s disrespectful to the reader at best, after all they need to be able to make an informed decision if they opt in or not.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Alright, that's plain bad writing, but dramatic tone shifts can and are used effectively.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I thought about content warning because I have seen comics that was upsetting to me and readers, and there was no trigger warning. Just a side note in the first chapter that the author explain that 'their characters' weren't a representation of every trans experience. But still had backlash for it. So some content warning when it comes to sensitive stuff like trauma, gender disphoria should be stated somewhere? I wasn't Trans but effected, I assume it was worse for trans readers seeing uncomfortable scenes that remind them of bad experiences.(edited)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

When I was younger, I used to be into a lot of animated stuff, and there was this one anime (don't judge, I was like fourteen) called Steins;Gate that, for the first half, is relatively comedic and lighthearted, before a very dramatic tone-shift in one episode where most of the main cast die on-screen and it becomes a conspiracy/time-travel thriller. It was actually very, very good, and it's an incredibly popular show because of it.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yeah. I think this is what content warnings are coming from: trying to enable the reader to make an informed decision of they wanna opt in to a story or not. It‘s a matter of consent.

They‘re not perfect, but better than nothing.

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

I agree with @chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa] here on the point that it's about being able to knowingly consent to a potentially unpleasant experience

Deo101 [Millennium]

Honestly I'd rather have a small spoiler at the end of the page before Something happens than potentially hurt someone

Again, only if it's really tonally dissonant

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

There's plenty of things I don't mind if I'm aware of it beforehand so I can make sure I'm in a good headspace, but the same things could totally put me off a story/creator and give me issues for months if I wasn't expecting them

Source: personal experience

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Webcomics are probably very different, but I'd find it would put me off a lot in poetry (and it's also something you don't see in it; it's just not a part of the industry culture). But people having negative emotions from reading is very commonplace and par for the course.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

But I also feel that content warning do give away bit of spoiler. I was taught the good way to protray an incoming dark topic is to give hints along the chapters, rather than 'spring it out of the blue'. I haven't written anything super dark/angst before though. It's uncomfortable for me and I haven't cross that threshold of feeling yet(edited)

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

Personally I feel like if your story or scene or whatever relies so heavily on the shock of specific content that it would be ruined by the "spoiler" potential of a content warning, it's bad writing

Deo101 [Millennium]

I feel like stories in general are not ruined by spoilers, though some people don't like them. But if we're in a scene and we're gonna see someone get cut in half and you say "hey this battle has extreme violence" that's hardly a spoiler

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Not always. Shock, if it's not in bad taste, can be used as a device to help set the emotional context for the rest of the passage. It's bad writing to use it bombastically and haphazardly, but in light touches, like a ghost pepper, it can help. On its own, though, yeah it's usually bad writing.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Since comics are visual there is more need for this kind of a thing because it can be more intense for readers

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Ah, yeah, that's true. My field doesn't have visuals.

I can imagine it may be different in that case.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Also, think like. Movies also have this, that's what the rating system is

A movie rated r for extreme violence isn't a spoiler

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Especially if it has Tom Cruise in it.

RebelVampire

Yes but imagine if the movie paused right before the worst parts to say "Hey this is gonna be a mature scene"

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Age ratings ARE content warnings.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Tv shows do it at the beginning of an episode

And, with comics you have natural pauses

Putting a small banner at the bottom of an update doesn't interrupt the flow the same way putting it at the top of one would, and it can prep people to know not to even open the next update kind of thing

I haven't done content warnings my content is only pg13 but I've thought a lot about it for future, more intense ideas

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

In Germany‘s there are no tv show content warnings, but certain stuff can only be aired after 20:30 or on dedicated channels.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I agree with @RebelVampire . In my favourite movie of all time by far which you 100% have to watch (IT'S REALLY GOOD!!!) On the Waterfront, there's one scene which really gut-punched me when I first watched it because it's, well, fairly disturbing, but if the movie stopped before it and some dude came up and said "B'ys, cover your children's eyes", that'd be ridiculous. Age warnings pre-screening are fine because it's an audiovisual form, but considering that text doesn't have that visual or audio component, I just don't see the need. I can understand why you would do it as a comic artist, though.

Deo101 [Millennium]

There are also, for movies and TV, sites like "does the dog die?" Which provide this kind of information for people with triggers. Comics don't have this kind of a site though so it's on the creator

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

That reminds me, I need to put Nyx+Nyssa‘s age rating note up. g

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

People with triggers are the sticking point for me. Even if most people would be okay, there's people who won't be and I don't want to act like they don't matter when I'm putting warnings on my content. I feel like it's my responsibility if I'm making that content.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yup. I know someone with cPTSD who cannot engage with media without content warnings; because disassociation is NOT fun and dangerous. „Does the dog die“ and similiar things mean she can engage with media without having to rope in others as betas.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yes, same here. Obviously you can't warn for everything, many people have obscure and specific triggers, but there are common ones that are generally sensitive subjects that I don't think it's bad to warn a bit about

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I don't think it is your responsibility, but rather those with triggers to be careful. I'm a trauma victim and I do have triggers, but you know, I can't expect everyone to know that (especially with how hilariously specific they are). If you're worried, do your research

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

There‘s a huge difference between being responsible of for someone and being mindful for someone.

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

As someone who has triggers as well - I'd prefer to be able to see at a glance. It's awful having to be on guard constantly and worried about what if you didn't do your research quite well enough

Deo101 [Millennium]

I personally only read comics on reccomendation because of mine

They're not common ones but I've never been annoyed by trigger warnings that aren't for me

It usually looks much different from the comic so you can just quick look and scroll past

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I really understand that and I can understand it in the context of your industry because it has that visual component, but in the context of mine it's not done because content warnings wouldn't really make much sense for my industry. What will annoy me is when trigger warnings are uploaded for every part of the webcomic. Like, that's a little extreme.

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

I understand it's very different context for poetry - but I'm talking about comics

Deo101 [Millennium]

I would agree that uploading for every page would be extreme, but I would think I'm that case it would be at the start of the comic or in the description

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

About pages! They exist for a reason.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

At the beginning of the entire comic, if you want to, that's fine. I think it does change the mindset of the reader and can be detrimental to the story in some cases, but if you know it's not, then that's fine! Of course, that problem can be solved just like @chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa] just suggested: put it on the About page.

Yeah, no, I could get behind that.

For webcomics, I think that would be a good solution.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Some sites don't offer about pages, though, and if it's not a major theme and only in a small part it's nice to put it in the comic itself too

Like my comic is generally very light-hearted but coming up I do have a scene that's significantly more violent than the rest of the comic has been, and I debated whether or not to warn my readers about it

I don't want to put a violence warning in my description though because it would draw the wrong audience

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I mean, it really depends. If it's suddenly looks like the notes of a medical student, then put a warning, but some light violence is probably fine.

Others could probably give a better opinion on that though.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yup. I liked how dumbing of age handled it‘s suicide warning - it was specific to that particular page because it dealt with specific details as opposed the more general discussion. So that page got a small note on top. Didn‘t remove the emotional impact, but allowed people to brace themselves or opt out.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Page the Poet refuses content warnings and enjoys their readers' suffering (/s).

All jokes aside, what do you mean about some sites not offering About pages? I'm not well-versed on hosting web-comics.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Well, for instance with webtoons you have a 500 (?) Character description, and that's it

Maybe it's 1500 or something idk it's been a while since I wrote mine. But it's not a seperate page like how I would have on my own site

On your own site it's awesome cause people can just, if they have triggers they can go there to see jf they're fine to read

But with webtoons, tapas, and other hosts you get one page and it's just your comic and description

So putting "violence warning" there is much different than on a seperate page

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I thought most web-comics had their own site?

Deo101 [Millennium]

I mean I do, but many don't

And most readers these days are on hosts I think

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh. Yeah, alright, I see the issue.

Deo101 [Millennium]

My description says pg13, LGBT, and slowburn and that's all it gets from me. I would be more descriptive in my about page which I do still need to code

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I'm curious, why specify the LGBT part?

Deo101 [Millennium]

But yeah so it's a very case by case basis depending on where you are and all that

Oh because I want lgbt people to know my comic has an LGBT cast and is catered to them

It's so my comic more likely finds my target audience

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

OH.

carcarchu

i think about stuff like school live and bokurano and consider that i'd be really upset if the sudden dramatic shift in tone was overtly warned beforehand because the shock factor was so important for those series in particular so i don't know how to handle warnings for stuff like that

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

That makes sense.

Please excuse my idiocy haha.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Not idiocy, it's a lot of potential to learn ;)

Carcarchu, it's really a personal choice of the author and what they want. If you don't wanna do it cause you think your story would suffer, that's totally fine. But personally and a lot of other creators agree, id rather potentially risk a slight decrease of my impact to protect some people.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You see, in poetry, it works like this: you find a journal that suits your poetry, you submit it, you don't get published, and you cry yourself to sleep. Repeat twenty odd times until you get accepted somewhere. Then, you get published there and you tend not to worry about target audiences and stuff yourself. 'Tis a foreign world to me!

RebelVampire

Yeah I agree that I think at the end its a personal choice cause you'll never please everyone whether you do or don't use warnings

carcarchu

i'm thinking about my experience reading those two series and being blown away by the sudden tone shift and really liking one of those series because of it. but then i think about my experience with madoka where i actually started watching it BECAUSE i saw a spoiler about the twist and it piqued my interest. i still enjoyed madoka but i wonder how my experience with it would have been different if i went in blind

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

@carcarchu , I'm with you. It really depends on what you can do, I think. If it's available to those who need it without expressly being there for those who don't want spoilers (An optional CW of sorts), that could work.

carcarchu

i like the idea of optional cw

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I don't know if it's an idea that could work, though, as I'm not experienced with web-comics. @Deo101 [Millennium] , your thoughts?

Deo101 [Millennium]

On a personally coded site you could probably with a lot of effort make something like that work, but that's not really so much an option on hosts

Tapas has a mature toggle where that specific page says "this contains mature content" or something, but everyone sees it

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

If it's personally coded, it should be fairly easy with a small bit of javascript, right?

Deo101 [Millennium]

And for other sites it's not an option at all other than for the entire series as a before you enter sort of deal

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I personally would put warnings Because some chapters deal with traumatic subject matter and I’ve had friends see them and warn me about those However I wouldn’t just do content warnings for something like swearing

Deo101 [Millennium]

I don't think you could code it easily, at least not with the systems I'm using.

Again the best solution I've come up with is at the end of the previous update, so people can skip over it easier and it doesn't interrupt flow the same way

carcarchu

the easiest way to do it on smth like webtoons would just to put some text on ur page that says something like "optional content warning for the next page in description, read at your own risk" but again that would spoil a potential twist

Deo101 [Millennium]

Honestly like Doesn't the twist just happen at the warning then instead of at the panel

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I think the real solution is to just not write anything.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Like it's not spoiling it it's just moving it a few lines up

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Don't even write the webcomic. Best solution.

Deo101 [Millennium]

And content warnings don't say who or how

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Perfection.

carcarchu

i might be miffed if i read TWIST INCOMING and then had to wait a week to actually see it

Deo101 [Millennium]

Just a general, vague, "what"

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Say there's triggering content, but don't say where or what. Put it on the last page too.

carcarchu

but it could potentially drum up interest like WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT WEEK

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah that's what I mean

carcarchu

idk could go either way

Deo101 [Millennium]

Not like there's a twist!

Just hey things get intense

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I don't know, it could still be triggering. I think we should just write no webcomic at all.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmmmm I never thought of that

But what if people forget about the trigger and just jump right in

carcarchu

if they forget the trigger isn't that their fault and not the creator?

Deo101 [Millennium]

People who have the trigger will remember

carcarchu

they were given ample warning

Deo101 [Millennium]

And if they do not then I did what I could

Sorry but I have a specific trigger of people watching someone sleep, I've had two people warn me their comics include it, and I remember. And that was like a year ago

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

My stupid sense of humour aside, I do agree with Deo and Carcarchu. If you forget the trigger, that's your own fault. The author making that information available is one thing, but they aren't there to hold your hand.

carcarchu

oh man that's a super common trope deo that must be rough

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah but it's cool

Like I know it's a common trope and it's not really one you can see coming or anything :/ so it's cool

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I think warnings are helpful tho if u be general like it contains a thing but u dont kno what it is till u read it

Like doe me it was doki doki lit club i didn't took seriously till it hit me and im like O

carcarchu

with dokidoki i knew about there WAS a twist but i didn't know exactly what it is so i was still shocked by it when it happened

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah like "Graphic violence" isn't a spoiler especially if you're already like 3 pages into a fight scene

carcarchu

but again they warned about it pretty vigilantly in the beginning before u play dokidoki? i'm not really sure how you could miss it?

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Yeah.

In all seriousness, I like the About page option / optional CW, but I realize that might be impossible in a lot of scenarios.

Maybe put in the description of the first page "OPTIONAL CW BELOW" for example for those who want it?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, or the page before. Only concern is people not reading it, but then again that kind of falls under the "their responsibility" section

kayotics

I’ve put one warning in before, but I kept it to promo images (so like social media update images) and in the comic description a few pages before. My reasoning was: it was tonally different & darker from the rest of the comic, but I didn’t put the warning in the pages because of the reader is paying attention, the fact that its coming is pretty obvious. Who knows if I did the right thing it handled it correctly, but I really struggled with figuring out what to do

Deo101 [Millennium]

Another concern is that some comics will run for years, decades even, and so its sometimes impossible to know at the beginning what might need to be warned for.

I think that's good Kay.

It's unobtrusive and gives the people who need it what they need

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Optional warning on the page before, then?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah that's what I said earlier I was kinda planning on doing if it ever became necessary

kayotics

That’s essentially what it was. I think I wrote a caveat that the warning was a spoiler

Deo101 [Millennium]

That makes sense

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm if you’re doing it on the page before How specific should the warning be

kayotics

I know a lot of people don’t read page descriptions, especially when binging, so I’m banking on the context of the chapter being the biggest warning

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Like do you just say optional warning?

kayotics

What I did is I said something about the the content of the next page without getting into too much detail

Deo101 [Millennium]

I see things like "warning: graphic violence, sexual content, substance abuse," etc. Stuff like that

kayotics

Yeah. Mine was graphic violence or gore or something

Deo101 [Millennium]

Where it doesn't say who or how or anything, just a vague what

Which usually, the context of the scene is around that kind of a theme anyways where we can tell it's coming

So a content warning is more like "this does get turned up to an 8 here"

Though it can be a surprise where Something like what Kay did is really good

Like okay so spoilers but be warned

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

B'y, turn it up to at least eleven. Go big or go home.

Deo101 [Millennium]

I'm on a 1-8 scale

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

But what about the saying? Heresy!

kayotics

I think in the context of my comic it felt like, to me, that I was turning it up to 8 from a 1 or 2. It’s not the MOST GRAPHIC thing I’ve ever seen, but with the entirety of the rest of the work it’s tonally different, which is why I needed the warning

My comic, at its worst, usually just sees some curses and cartoon violence.

This was, like, full on blood and gore

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I jumped straight into 12 at one point for mine whoops

kayotics

So I think context of the work is important with a warning as well

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, I'm usually around a 1-2 too. I've got pg-13 in my description and if I'm ever toeing the edge of it, I'm gonna warn about it

kayotics

If you have a violent or heavy comic already, warnings for each page is ridiculous. It’s when you turn it up that you should mention something

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah exactly

DanitheCarutor

Aaah you know, I don't put warnings on my pages, because practically half the comic would have CWs due to the focus on upsetting themes. There was one instance where I did put one up for a page containing a lot of queerphobic language presented in a way that was jarring, and potentially triggering for people who've experienced something like that. Although I've somewhat regretted singling out that one page since the comic from that point only gets worse, in hindsight that one instance isn't bad enough to warrant a warning. I'll probably take it down once I stop being lazy. In general I feel a page-by-page warning is best for comics that don't normally have heavy stuff, it makes sense to warning for violence if that's not a normal thing in your comic, it might shock readers too much otherwise. As far as content, everyone has different sensitivity levels (someone put a CW up once for a character being yelled at by his dad), personally I would only use CWs for excessive violence/abuse, blood, mental illness, suicide, rape, gore, slurs and/or substance abuse. I've gotten a lot of mixed reception on warnings, there are people who want them up, in detail, on every page with potentially upsetting content. People who want them chapter by chapter, some like detail, some want a general warning. Then there are people who don't want any warnings either due to them being too spoilery, or they feel it ruins the immersion. I went for a warning in a pop-up on my main site and leaving a list in my description on other sites, mostly for the non-spoiler crowd and because of what I said before about practically half my comic being potentially triggering.

There are two chapters coming up where I'll be putting up a general warning banner at the start of the chapter, with a hidden list of triggers in the author's notes and an option to read a safer summarized version at the end of each chapter, rather than forcing everyone to read the whole thing. Just because the content will be really difficult for some in presentation and/or subject matter, and I don't want to outright distress anyone... at least without them understanding what they're getting into.

Like, even compared to how my comic already is the next chapters will be really upsetting... for some people.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

It's not bad if people are upset or distressed. Like, full on disassociation from PTSD, obviously not, but I think these CWs are for them, not Alice Smith the average woman. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So, I feel like, because of that, the general approach is best. Adding a CW for someone getting yelled at by their father is too spoiler-y/specific in my mind.

carcarchu

i really like dani's approach with the summary at the end for people who want to know what happened but can't stomach actually seeing the nitty gritty

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Here’s the problem tho...my series literally deals with trauma healing

So there’s going to be mentions of...going to therapy, friends talking about it

Not the actual trauma itself

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with CWs there.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

But I’m really worried that if I have to put up trigger warnings every time...a lot of pages will have that warning

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

People know what they're getting in for.

If you're going to read a comic about healing from trauma...don't be surprised at content that's not very fun.(edited)

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, my warnings are specifically for the mentally ill, people who've been in abusive situations and such. I don't want to end up bring back certain experiences, at least without them knowing what they're getting into.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm in that case I might have to put it in the summary itself then

That there’s trauma healing Of course it’s also about humor and slice of life, but I’ll add it in just in case

Would it help to get sensitivity readers to take a gander look?

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I mean, in my mind, a general synopsis of the basic plot is a good idea for a lot of stories so long as you aren't spoiling anything.

DanitheCarutor

Me? Nah, I mean, I should but it wouldn't change my decisions since my story is really tight and changing stuff would end up changing everything.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

In this case, trauma-healing seems to be a part of that plot.

So, you know, if it's mentioned, I think that's blaringly obvious at that point to people that "B'ys, there may be some triggering shit here", y' know?

DanitheCarutor

Oh, I totally misread the convo. Lol I mean, you could get a sensitivity reader if you want to be on the safe side, but if you're writing from experience and you've done research I don't see a problem with not having one.

carcarchu

having read the first few chapters of shadow's comic trauma healing was not an aspect that i picked up from it(edited)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Sensitivity reader?

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I agree, I get more light heart tone with Shadow's story, but I know stuff ahead of time(edited)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Oh nooo

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

maybe the aspects will come up as the comic progresses shadow

:0

DanitheCarutor

My comic is also about trauma and healing, and while I haven't experienced all the things my characters have, I did do a ton of research and talked to people. Although my comic is a vent comic so most of it is based off my experiences.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I've just put general content warnings in the about page and appropriately rated my comic for its content. There will be things that are written thar i have no idea that could be triggering to people that exsist in a lot of media, it almost becomes impossible to sort through. And with the amount of content to sift through that would/wouldn't be sensitive to certain topics or just generally unaware, its tricky. If there is a reader with a potentially sensitive trigger, i would hope they could get a friend to do a read through if possible, but rarely have i seen comics go right into topics that would need such a hand to do so. Stories have descriptions and ratings for that reason, you're not going to find insane violence in Pokemon type stories, so the author has that responsibility of rating it correctly is what im getting at

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Sorry, what's a sensitivity reader?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

A sensitivity reader is like, a beta reader who specifically checks whether your work is offensive/ insensitive (e.g. when you're wondering "is my portrayal of this ethnic group offensive/ignorant?")

carcarchu

i think a sensitivity reader is for when ur writing a story that includes a particular cultural or ethnic group that ur NOT part of and u want to avoid making your story culturally insensitive

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Ooh Dani, is it Guide to Unhealthy Relationship? Your comic often stand out to me. I knew what I was getting into when I read it

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I was a sensitvity reader for someone who was writing a viet american and keii pretty much sums it up

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

That's a thing? Who does that? Ethnic Studies professors?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

And it's not just for ethnic groups

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I gave suggestions to add and avoid if ya writing a character from a certain ethnic group or marginalized group

like LGBT+, persons with disabilities etc

carcarchu

ethnic groups is the first thing i thought of but yes

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

No, not ethnic studies professors.

Members of the marginalized group.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yep

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

So if you're writing a trans character, you probably want a sensitivity reader who is trans

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yep!

carcarchu

example the mangaka of golden kamuy has an ainu consultant who is ainu but i'm not sure if having a consultant is quite the same thing?(edited)

DanitheCarutor

@Joichi [Hybrid Dolls] Yeah, it is. I'm glad you were able to know! I try to make it obvious since CWs are pretty much the main themes of my comic. xD

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

i think so

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

A consultant can apply to sensitivity readers, yes, but goes beyond that

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like the mangaka saught to reprsent ainus too

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I know an MMA comic with an MMA consultant, for example

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

But couldn't two members of that group, say, Jews, say completely different things? How can you guess the information to be reliable based on their simply being a part of that group? Surely, there are things people look for when hiring these people?

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I have artist friends who are my sensitively reader and one friend who has had experience with abuse So they help me with what’s good and what’s not to write about

I have artist friends who are my sensitively reader and one friend who has had experience with abuse So they help me with what’s good and what’s not to write about

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's still gonna be WAY better than not getting any, Page.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I mean yeah but in that instance hearing from another perspective at least one person helps

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

At least you can be aware of possible....differences

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

And people who have experience as sensitivity readers know some common issues to look for, as well.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Or cross reference

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yep

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

It could be worse if the information is unreliable. What sort of qualifications does one look for?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like for me, reping viet folks and telling that to those saught viet rep in their comics

I told them "don't you freaking dare add tropes about the vietnam war I'm gonna come over to your house"

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Friend of mine was a trauma survivor that I witnessed first hand

I suppose that qualifies!

But I think it helps to ask around

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

This stems from writers writing what they think an experience/ person group is without doing research and just being ignorant and offensive and a call for ppl to do better

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah like those stories should be left to the group experienced it instead

imo

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

TBH even when you do a ton of research on your own, a sensitivity reader can help you catch things that you never even thought of researching because you were unaware It Was A Thing

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like I still read some stories then they throw like the nam joke

and i'm like "I'm droppin this"

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Yea I don't get cis ppl writing about the trans experience. Its not ur story

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

agreed ya

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm a lot of artists write from experience

Perhaps if you need a sensitivity reader for say...being bi for example

Maybe find an artist who themselves is bi(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like don't write how they got there, but write the experience they gonna deal with in the comic

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Because you get double: you get someone who’s bi and also someone who knows how to work the medium

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like i doubt cis persons have the nuance for trans folk, same goes for non-poc thinking is okay to do weird nuance things with poc

like lmao idk that's a pet peeve of mine if someone is writing an asian character and really just

"yea he's asian, idk what nationality but its there."

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Im not into someone who isn't a minority writing about a minority experience as a personal preference, but the sensitivity readers aren't exclusive to that. There was an example in story help in this server where someone asked about writing for a certain group of ppl and wanted feedback

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I...remember that krispy

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah

carcarchu

i get what you're saying Tuyetnhi but i don't want authors to NOT include any representation just because they're scared of doing it wrong

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Several people warned him Including me

DanitheCarutor

A good example of sensitivity readers is Moana. The directors were old white guys, but they got Hawaiians to look over the script to make sure it wasn't disrespectful to the culture, or totally out of left field, since the tribe in the movie is based on Hawaiian tribes. Even though I didn't have sensitivity readers I still sought out people who experienced certain mental illnesses, medical professionals and mental health professionals willing the share their experiences and knowledge on the subjects I'm tackling before starting the comic.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye and I get that, I mean like if they trying to do extreme nuance takes

leave that for folks who experienced that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Asscreed games used to do the same too

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I ain't againist that kind of rep, but I have a paricular idea how to go about it that's all lol

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Tho i don't know if they were successful

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

What's wrong with someone writing a character who is transgender if they're not transgender? There's a lot of good research done on transgender issues both medical and societal as well as a lot of written record. I also don't see the issue with writing an ethnic minority as a non-minority. "Far Beyond the Stars" was written by white men and it speaks about racial issues brilliantly. Consultants on the intricacies of culture, I 100% understand, though, for your narratives; that does make sense. Professors are hired by filmmakers and writers for just that IIRC.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Sensitivity readers would not be a thing if people were not allowed to write characters outside of their own identity. Nobody's advocating that

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ya

carcarchu

white people can write on poc's issues fine. but i have a problem when they act like they know more than the people who have experienced it first-hand

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

Yep that's what I mean cara

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

As long as you’re respectful about it

And open to changing ideas

RebelVampire

Ok Im gonna step in here now and say we need to take a step back perhaps cause I feel this convo might be becoming too heated.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Heated?

I think you're misreading. I don't believe anybody here is heated over anything. I didn't know there was an argument, honestly. Is there? Am I losing my mind here?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Also these are instances that have been brought to light bc ppl want better rep from authours too. My last point on that!!

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I don't think anyone's angry, but this is an extremely sensitive/ heavy topic so we're all treading carefully!

carcarchu

i'm with page i thought it was all very civil

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Remarkably so, frankly.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

agreed

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Usually these things spawn a lot of arguments. It's refreshing to see people, well, not do that.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye lol

RebelVampire

It is but this is the sort of topic where it can quickly hit the boiling point in a single message. And I've been seeing some warning signs in this convo. By all means if everyone can keep it civil, please continue. Consider this more a warning that right now, if you're getting angry, please step away from the convo cause I don't want to have to mute or ban anyway.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

aight

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Warning signs? I really am losing my mind.

DanitheCarutor

Let me know if I've said or will say something that might be insensitive. I try to be respectful, but I'm overly comfortable with uncomfortable topics and can be like a bull in a china shop sometimes.(edited)

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Its just a sensitive topic, page

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

same with me, but i'm also speaking from experience as sensitivity reader too.

so yea lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh yeah, on most servers, when this comes up, you have those who take the opportunity to say white people should die, then the ones who say the same about people of colour. It all devolves.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

what the

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh, b'ys, Discord is a wild place.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I agree with Keii, these are sensitive topics, I'm reading each one carefully without jumping into a fight

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I mean yeah, I been on discord since 2015 lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Gosh, I've been on it for years too! Seems so long ago I first came here!

Time flies, eh?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

still like, I find it kinda ridiculous someone is willing to jump like that

but yeah er, the topic at hand lol

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It doesn't need to go to that ridiculous extent to offend people, so I agree with Rebel on that we need to continue to be careful

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

(going to step out now but good convo y'all)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Offer people a bit of the word "race" and soon it turns into Nuremberg.

Good talking to you, mate!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Goodnight Eilidh!

Also I’m actually new on discord

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I think that its a good practice that writers today are more sensitive to the readers. Not in a hand holding way, but in a responsible way where their work is properly tagged and rated and the consistency of such content is a warning as well (like danis comic) It's important to want to improve the reading experience for many and keeping in mind that some topics need to be handled with some more care

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye agreed!

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

In my field, I think it's a contest on how much emotion you can get out in one breath with gleeful abandon to how the reader feels.

carcarchu

but a problem with that is sometimes it feels like writers are held up to impossibly high standards and that they can't have ANY inkling whatsoever of any content that might possibly be construed as "problematique" by the purity police. the degree to which some authors are scrutinized is unreasonable and i think it often stems from having to be seen as a "pure" representation of whatever it is they are representing

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Sometimes it's not even that the standards are "too high"

DanitheCarutor

@FeatherNotes(Krispy) Lol if the word limit allows it, every self-promo of my comic is plastered with age and content warnings, dang it!

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

There will ALWAYS be those standards, they were always there. Ppl just didn't have that voice. I would not be worried about writing however, as i def see a problem with the purity thingie going around.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think carcarchu is talking about something very specific, Feather?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

there will be some rep be messy and rip that's part of being human and making mistakes

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

There was an article talking about the direction of art and the consumers of such that covered this topic about the purity thing that i wanna findd

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like everyone can't be a saint

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

like when an ownvoices writer gets pitchforks and torches because their portrayal wasn't wholesome enough, and you are only allowed to write happy and wholesome stories about that group(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like

keii omg

yeah i'll die in the torches that's ok

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Wait what

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah it's a thing

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Thats a thing

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

What...????

carcarchu

yes that's what i'm talking about keii

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

What

carcarchu

i also have a video about it

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

They're more upset at the story direction then

Not a purity thing

carcarchu

no it's a purity thing

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I agree with Carcarchu on this one. I feel like some people would be up in arms if I wrote a story where a white guy is the protagonist and a black guy is the antagonist. Some people just see race.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I know several LGBTQ peeps who are afraid to post their dark LGBTQ fiction because it might draw the attention of "only wholesome content allowed!!!" people

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

WhgtttattTTT

nooo

DanitheCarutor

Oooh yeah, the puritans/sanitizers out there, they're a scary bunch. I've had a run in with a few people who've said my comic shouldn't be allowed to exist due to the content... and I've been called queerphobic... and that my comic is queerphobic torture porn... and other fun stuff. It happens.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

WHHHHHHAAAAAAAT

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You'd be surprised how common this is.

RebelVampire

Yeah I have to say I've seen it a lot too

carcarchu

where have u been krispy that you haven't seen this?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I have been in my silent cave apparently

I also haven't been in fandoms for years if that helps lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You living like Patrick the Starfish?

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, we're kind of starting to get back into the olden days of demand for sanitizing art, people who work on darker content or horror get a lot of crap.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

This is patrick

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

All kidding aside, TL;DR: shit's kind of fucked in some ways.

carcarchu

i've even had run-ins with such people irl... hasnt been the most pleasant. i was once friends (note once) who tried to convince me that i should turn my het romance story into a lesbian one? for no reason other than she preferred to read that kind of content?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Ohhbsee thats where im confused

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Imagine if the sexuality were flipped. It would be outrageous.(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

rip I had a comment a year ago that the main love interest is "too gay to be straight"

and i'm like "excuse u?"

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

"Yeah, make it straight. I don't like gay stuff."

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

How is the relationship dynamic purity in that case?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's not purity police talk anymore, I think

carcarchu

not purity in that specific example feather but it's the same kind of person

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I’ve also had people come up to me and ask why I don’t write a more lighthearted story

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's... a different issue

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

OB

MY GOSHHH

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Or “shadow, your shit is too dark why are you writing about this”

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

So ppl be telling u how to write ur chars now?

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

"Life can only be happy and stuff :(( art can literally only be happyyy"

carcarchu

yeah this same person was also PISSED that there was a gem in steven universe who was "black-coded" and portrayed as a villain even though there were black coded gems who were not portrayed as villains as well

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Sorry Krispy Life be like that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Wthhhh

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Black coded?....what series have they been watching carcarchu lol

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ah dang

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

These ppl have 2 much time on their hands RIP They wanna rip apart media, go after something that deserves it (likethebig2incomicscough)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

They’re gate keeping(edited)

DanitheCarutor

Ah not too long ago I stumbled across an artist who drew more problematic stuff as a way to cope with trauma, which I guess was something their therapist suggested. Their stuff is pretty messed up, but someone started one of those "call out" videos on them, leading to thousands of people flooding their work with some of the most awful comments along with people trying to shut down their Patreon and social media accounts.

carcarchu

i later found out this person was also a terf so i ended the friendship right there when i found out

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Dani that’s...what the fuck

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Oh nasty

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

searches up terf Oh...

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I remember reading one person talking about how presenting "bad ideals" and whatnot in fiction had to be demonstrated to be bad ideals and not work and stuff and so on so forth.

carcarchu

i've seen that too dani

sadly more times than i can count

we all remember what happened to cucumber quest right?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It is terrible out there

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

What’s cucumber quest

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

What is cucumber

Quest oop

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

"What is cucumber?": An essay in being Socrates.

carcarchu

long story short cucumber quest was a children's webcomic that was pretty popular but the author got bullied off tumblr for being "problematic"

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh no

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Tumblr has a lot of crazies.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I like her work

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Oh noooooooooo

I still go on tumblr but I carefully choose my blogs

Because I don’t want this shit

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

(All this being said, I wanna reiterate that just because those terrible pitchforks and torches people exist, doesn't mean all "I find this offensive" voices are invalid. Some things could genuinely be improved!)

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Also def wanna say that even tho there will be these wolves waiting to tear 'non perfect' media apart, please dont feel like u have to stop writing, ever. Dont be afraid bc of these stories, yall have good heads on ur shoulders and obvs want to share ur experiences and that is something ur allowed to do

carcarchu

fyi she didnt stop making her comic because of the bullying thing, it was a separate, unrelated issue much later(edited)

i hear you keii

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I find it hilarious of the idea That there are people out there who tell someone not to write stuff like abuse even tho they’ve never experienced it

And the writers themselves have

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

There was someone who tried to boycott assassins creed 2 bc the main char reminder her of her ex bf

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

omfg

DanitheCarutor

It's really sad and a little terrifying if your work doesn't fit the sanitization standards... Sometimes I think of that "what if" chance just the right person finding my comic and launching a take down campaign on it. Which is why I'm totally fine with staying as a smalltime person in the shadows. Also people don't usually want to even read through my comic, so that's a plus.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

why lmaoo

oh dang dani that's one fear

but i'm also like "I wonder how folks react to me dealing with that like I ignore them"

would that be a power move or I'd be burning harder?

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Shit I never thought of a takedown campaign

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

It's a genuine fear for the creating community for sure, but ur voice is necessary. Ur story will resonate with ppl, and those who choose to use their time to tear it down obviously have nothing else better to do

DanitheCarutor

@keii’ii (Heart of Keol) Oh yeah, totally! People's feelings are super valid, and someone writing sensitive content should be open to listening to other people. I'm just talking about the extremists who think anything remotely uncomfortable shouldn't exist. Like, no.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Man, nowadays, people just throw shit and false accusations and all the rest at people because they don't like them and their stuff. They're truly pathetic.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I used to be so scared of a certain chapter in my comic bc its so violent at one point. It kept me up at night bc of these take down campaigns were a such a thing. But then i remember the content i enjoyed that inspired my own and im like Aint no one cancelling FMA for the niina part!

I mean unless its a topic that's super insensitive to a group or people/topic, which i know you're handling with sensitivity and grace, i wouldn't stop

carcarchu

this is a little bit sensitive so i'm going to put it in a spoiler there was another incident where an author received constant messages to kill themselves for writing gls when they did not at that time identify as a woman but then the author later did a whole comic about how how complicated her relationship with her own gender and sexuality was and that she de-transitioned and now once again considered herself to be both cis and lesbian and all those comments about her needing to kill herself for writing gl were so narrow-minded because you can never really know an author's situation if you aren't in their shoes

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

What's "gl"?

DanitheCarutor

Lol yeah, I do get worried a lot, especially about the upcoming chapters. Although that's not going to stop me from pushing forward, and telling the story how I want to tell it. If my online presence is murdered in the process, at least it will die for a good cause... at least good for me because I'll be venting everything out.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Whhhh!!! People just gettin into ppls business damn. That's horrible

carcarchu

girl's love

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

GIrl's love?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I def see ur story as a personal one with healing and building that will resonate with others Dani. And i think that's very important

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

What's that?

carcarchu

stories about girls loving girls

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

it's a genre that focuses on romantic relationships between girls ye

carcarchu

i really got chills reading that author's comic about her identity especially having seen those comments numerous times on her other comics

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

There was a similar incident except it was with an artist by the name of Zamii for supposedly drawing Steven Universe characters too thin (Yes, she did attempt suicide in the end, though she didn't succeed in her attempt).

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Is...is she okay now?

oh my god Page

I remembered that

The SU writers had to step in

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh rip sadly I remember that as well

carcarchu

i think she's doing ok! i'm not sure if that particular comic is still up but i can dm u it if u want shadow

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Yep! Not just the writers, even an executive producer.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Yes please carcarchu

And I think Rebecca sugar stepped in too? Not sure about that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Hopefully this serves as a reminder for all of us to have each others backs in such situations wow

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Another incident was in the Undertale fandom I think. One person gave a cookie to an artist at a convention they didn't like because of the ships they were doing. They author was suspicious, so, they cracked open the cookie. It was filled with needles.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

WHHHHHHYYYYYYY

carcarchu

oh my god i remember that page, what a horror story

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

........what the FUCK

carcarchu

always be careful about accepting food from events like that

DanitheCarutor

Geez, the thing about the GL author is sad... yet not surprising, and it's sad that I'm not surprised. @FeatherNotes(Krispy) Thank you so much! I went into my comic expecting absolutely no one would like it, so if it resonates with even one person that would be the best surprise. TvT

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yee haw I love solidarity

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, never accept food/drinks from strangers, including "fans"

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

As someone who bakes and deals with food....that is horrifying

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah rip that's horrifying

carcarchu

if it's packaged food like candy it should be safe, but still be careful if u have reason to be suspicious at all

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Remember, if you're suspicious, make them eat it too >:)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

omgllol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

And lace it with cyanide.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Gosh authours need content warning from readers it seems yikes

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Better safe than sorry.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Still not safe to have them eat it too lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I mean, hey, better second degree murder than dead.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I can think of some.... ways around that

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

"I'm alergic to needles"

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Give it to their friend

>:)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Give it to their spouse.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

And if it’s poison they’ll go down knowing they did it

Make a marvel villain

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

They're called "Widower".

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Page you and I have like minds

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Indeed we do.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm not comfortable with that -- like, what if their friend or spouse is being abused by them and is seeking to get out of that relationship

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

...This conversation is freaking amazing And I’ve never done individual page warnings for my comic - never felt it necessary. Maybe someday someone will yell at me about it, but... meh. The comic never goes into the really deep dark potentially-controversial stuff. So maybe it won’t be an issue. Back to catching up on all of this, WOW.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh god it would be a complicated meSS(edited)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Oh god okay NO DONT GIVE IT TO THEIR SPOUSE

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

It doesn't matter. They must die for our agenda.

Morality? Pft.

If they're dead, they're no longer in the relationship.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I mean @LadyLazuli (Phantomarine) your story is really riveting But I’m not sure if you need warnings? I mean your story deals with...death

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You see? Widower solves everything.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

@shadowhood (SunnyxRain) I’m not sure! Someone tagged it with ‘limb loss’ elsewhere, which is debatable, haha. It’s something I would almost want others to tag. Sometimes I can’t stretch my mind far enough to imagine a page needing a trigger warning.(edited)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Wow...the more you learn, huh.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Yes- those specific type tags are always going to be elusive to keep track of- ur general rating is just what ur story needs

Def wanna point out too that TV ratings and warnings are what i go by and the most helpful to me as a reader and creator. Also video game warnings too are good to look at if people ever need examples of how to rate comics!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Yep, ratings are all I need too. In my ‘about’ page I described my comic as “no darker than the darkest stuff in Harry Potter,” but I’m sure someone would still find something extremely dark in that, so... SHRUG

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Does anyone know of any of the big name comics that put trigger warnings or whatnot in their work? I dont read marvel/dc/etc so ive never seen if they took to rating their comics with any type of warnings?

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I do have kids reading so I want the parents to feel comfortable

DanitheCarutor

Is it weird that I rated my comic based on the level of nudity and lack of sex? Like, "Okay, these people are really naked but not in a sexy way, what is the rating for that?"

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I'm thinking about snot girl rn and idk if their creators do that tbh other than marketed towards adults

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I read a couple of more-intense things from Image Comics and I’ve never seen any trigger warnings there either

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm I’m not sure I remember reading Hellboy and not seeing any trigger warnings

carcarchu

krispy, the only time i can recall it is when i read Bradherley's Coach and that was actually put there by the translation team and not the author himself but i will say that the warning was extremely warranted with that one because i consider myself pretty desensitized to traumatic content but even this one really got me with each chapter being traumatic in it's own unique way

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Do they have ratings on the backs of the books like some manga?

Oh wow ty translation team

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Probably! I’m not sure if DarkHorse comics does it but they do have things like nudity and...portrayals of graphic death

carcarchu

if u read it on a website there is some degree of tagging for the content but i don't think that alone could have accurately prepared someone for what the comic explored

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I think its clear that by these examples we're all already doing better at being responsible for the content we share and produce.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I hope so I wonder if those big name comics received flak about not having trigger warnings

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I wonder about that too tbh

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Im sure to a degree? But no where near an indie creator would

Which is a whole other topic

carcarchu

i for one would love more tagging options for webcomics

makes it easier to find whatever niche content you're into!

genres alone just dont do it

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

That could work But there’s also a price to pay; less chance to get readers too

carcarchu

why is it less of a chance to get readers?

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I myself am looking at my Punisher comics, and there's no warnings anywhere, but i feel with an antihero like the Punisher, you go in expecting the gore and violence

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmmmm....I guess my fear is that it’s a double edged sword carcarchu On one hand you can attract the readers you want But on the other hand you can also...possibly drive away readers who are mildly curious Some people need time to get invested in a story

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I guess some people will just avoid some tags no-questions-asked. Hopefully it’s the small minority that the trigger warning will actually help (in terms of anxiety) and not someone who’s writing off the trigger as problematic and will go on a tirade warning other readers about it. I know it goes both ways

carcarchu

oh i wasn't talking about trigger content tagging specifically

i was talking about stuff like being able to tag for example "witches" or "animals" or "music" whatever is a theme in your comic(edited)

guess it wasnt a logical throughline made sense in my head

eli [a winged tale]

I was looking for a universal way to show trigger warnings and came across this article. https://medium.com/@UntoNuggan/trigger-warnings-101-a-beginners-guide-e9fc90c6ba0a I guess for mine I’m thinking to add body horror and violence the more we go through the story... I do like the part about putting the informed consent power back to the reader’s hands

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I put both Fantasy Violence and Alcohol Use as general warnings for my comic. Alcohol is treated in a complex manner in CoR, both in a humorous light and as a way to cope, but I know there are a lot of folks that are triggered by the presence of alcohol.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I will be putting trigger warning in my comic but Ive wanted to write about mental health allegories for a long time as a personal self reflection.

I started to feel braver after seeing other creators boldly write about mental health topics in their comics.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Whispers the webcomic library is an excellent source and tool to find/avoid tags in comics

Luma does an excellent job with archiving the stories there and i hope yall have applied to have ur comics there too!

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Yes I watch Webcomic library on Twitter, Luma does such a good job curating comics(edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Same! Highly recommended

carcarchu

i think i follow it on twitter but i don't keep up with it

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

They did these tags for my comic(edited)

carcarchu

maybe i should change that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Super dedicated and a very great resource for webcomics!!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I got these! I originally only put down 'limb loss - leg' but 'limb loss - arm' popped up too, and I'm like "You know... that's kinda true." It's a really good resource!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

OOoh I should check it out

Webcomic library, right?

carcarchu

what's the difference between independent! and independent

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

...that's a good question and I don't know the answer, haha

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

“Eventual LGBTQ” yes

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I AGREE!! I'm on Webcomic Library too. Mine is tagged as Mobility Aids since Nocturne uses a cane to walk

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

hmmm how do you add your webcomic onto there?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I went thru the process like

you send an email to luma/webcomic libary with a submission form

and she'll add it for u with the tags that are relelated to your comic

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Luma always puts up submission posts too Check out their tumblr/twitter!

DanitheCarutor

I can't imagine how much time it takes Luma to go through all those webcomics! These are the tags they put for mine:(edited)

They've kept it up pretty well in spite of it not being their cup of tea. The only thing I was ever iffy on was the 'sexual nudity' tag since I didn't intend for that but for the nudity to be uncomfortable/awkward, and I don't like the idea of people going into my comic for sexual arousal, but on well. To each their own, also it may be a presentation mistake on my part.

It's funny because I didn't think about one of my MCs being disabled until seeing this, I had to think for a moment before realizing "Oh yeah, I guess ocular albinism is considered a disability."

Kind of an embarrassing realization on my part.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ooo that's a lot of tags

this from my comic

DanitheCarutor

@shadowhood (SunnyxRain) Here is the submission template if you're interested. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q48tZquhmNoGY_lcsE8FkByF614EISk_Pf3YoQKXYWA/edit?usp=sharing

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

probably not much is tagged since lmao it's 2 chapters in

DanitheCarutor

Haaaah yeah, my comic has a lot of... stuff. It'll probably get even bigger once the next two chapters are finished, if Luma is willing to go through them.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

ahhh thank you Time to submit

honestly I don't think there'll be a lot for my webcomic, since I just started lol

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

All a good resource regardless! And a good place to find comics to read!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

fair enough! Also...uhh....

what's nsfw text?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

like, not safe for work things being talked about in the text of the comic typically sex stuff i imagine

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

or swearing lmao

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

oh god

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

get ready for a rideeeee

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

since someone saying "violence and gore" in the text wouldn't really count as NSFW lol

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

on my sailor ship lolol

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, NSFW text is swearing, slurs, discussion of NSFW subjects, sexual language I'm guessing. In my case it's the former three, at least I assume as much.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

..........ohhhh boy

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

mine is just my characters speaking without filter

lol

at least for the begining lolol

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

but yeah to me the limit for "what to warn people about" is generally dependent on the platform

those are my tags on archive binge

those are my tags on webcomic library (admittedly a bit out of date)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

lord almighty(edited)

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

on comic fury the only tag I have is high violence (with no nudity, sexual content, or swearing)

on tapas it's a page-by-page thing so I basically add the tag whenever there's blood on-screen

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Nsfw is not swearing like bitch, shit fuck Its more slurs i do believe

Also forgive me for swearing on main lol

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

lol

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

OH DANI SAID IT ALREADY

So yes, what dani said

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Yeah I was wondering how deep into curse/slur territory it’d have to go

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Gjs has swearing in it but its sailor mouth stuff, not slurs

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I’ve got fantasy slurs and I drop those RARELY because they still make me feel weird, haha

Dunno if I could ever commit to IRL ones in anything I do

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, I imagine if swears did count it would be how they're used, like if they were said in a derogatory statement and/or bullying.

But yeah, slurs, definitely. Haaaah

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I don't think I could ever write about racial slurs either. The only touchy topics I will ever write are those I have experienced. Never experienced true racism so if I wrote about it I would feel like I'm faking knowledge of a huge and personal issue for other people

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Same. I leave that to people who can write about it better. Any discrimination I have in my stories is manufactured by the fantasy world and its own unique circumstances. I have some influence from real-world discrimination, but it's its own thing.

DanitheCarutor

Ah but slurs aren't just race, there are also slurs for gender and sexuality. (The -cough- 'T' and 'F' word.)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

yeah... racial slurs make me uncomfortable, but depends with the fantasy slurs, that could be creative if it's done to show the social issues of that world?(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I feel like even if you're only using fantasy slurs (speaking as someone whose comic has a use of a fantasy slur...), you need good understanding of what it's like to be on the receiving end of a slur IRL. This isn't to say "you need [this qualification] to be Allowed to use slurs in your fictional work!" but more like, how to make it resonate with the readers in the right ways, how to make it not gratuitous, etc.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm still learning myself. Like, I do have some experience dealing with racism toward me, but 1) it's nothing compared to the truly horrific stuff out there, and 2) even on comparable "levels" my experience could be very, very different from someone else's. All we can do is keep trying, keep learning.

Keep listening.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I'd had a fair deal of racism and microagression being a native in the US for so long

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

exactly, like I experienced childhood racism about my cultural upbringing. But it's different for other people.(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

it's something that lmao won't go away but ye we have some different perspectives on how we can go about handling it

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

When I read a work or watch a film, I can tell if the creator has researched well, if it's racism similar to my experiences. It doesn't matter their background. But it'd be a nicer bonus if this came from a POC creator.(edited)

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, based on that I'm probably not the best person to have characters using slurs. While the slur present is gender based, I have a complicated relationship with... everything that isn't white/cis/het. I'm a mixed race (mom's side(very white passing): German Jewish, black Irish, Scottish, Native American. Dad's side: Native American, Spanish, Mexican.), my mom was raised in a church in a tiny town that was totally against non-white people and race mixing, according to her when I was born people would come to the hospital to gawk at me. I've never been called a slur maliciously, but casually and I never noticed it until I was older after everyone naturally stopped. Every experience and memory I have of slurs has been of the "yikes!", "Woah, you really said that." variety, so I kind of project that energy a little bit in my comic. But in the form of a very yikes casually transphobic character.

For clarity on the cis/het thing, my family was also extremely bigoted but would hide it under casual language, so it never sounded queerphobic until you process what they said.

Not related to me, but I understand needing to experience racism to write it, although I think it can still be accomplished well if the person is empathetic and does a ton of research. Kinda like anything else sensitive, you just need to be really educated on the subject.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I agree with you Dani. Sadly some creators just don't have that empathy and want to write a fantasy token character. I had awkward story conversations before on race. "what do you think about this ambiguous Asian character? I'm thinking of a Japanese name, sounds Asian enough?" I always cringe inside(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

I usually bring in other people to write about those things I haven't experienced. Friends, generous volunteers, etc.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I think it's 100% OK to write about things you haven't experienced. I don't think J.K. Rowling experienced being an adolescent male chosen one in a magical college, but she still wrote about it...and made a Hell of a lot of money.

DanitheCarutor

Lol that's why I added in doing research, which I think brainstorming with experienced people counts, you're still educating yourself. I agree with everyone on experience being preferred, although I am on the anti-censorship side with art and storytelling, no matter how cringe it is.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

ofc i think it's okay, but I personally don't feel comfortable doing it

i even feel a little weird writing male characters

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

If we can only write ourselves and our experiences, we're plain not good writers.

That's my view on the matter.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Again, I don't think any of us is advocating Necessary Qualifications To Even Attempt. This is a much more nuanced topic

I've never been a tall beefy dude, but that's what my MC is.

Never been a parent, but I write parents.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yeah, "make the effort to write this well" is very different from "don't write this"

And there's plenty of people criticizing JKR for how she handles specific topics...

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

yeeeeah....

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Including me.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

JKR is probably not a good example to bring up as a positive example for this topic, simply because of the issues that can REALLY distract from why she's being used as an example.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I like writing male character more often since I'm less stressed about writing the opposite gender, I know it's my comfort zone. I based some of the boys on my guy friends and have fun with the story. Though I'm making a difference by insisting on adding women more and pushing for strength and vulnerability.(edited)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

J.K. turned out to be lacking a few brain-cells, but my point is that you can very easily write foreign experiences; every good writer does that all the time (as you all do yourselves!) and I think that extends to writing characters no matter the colour of their skin, sexuality, or gender identity.

DanitheCarutor

True, I haven't seen gatekeeping here, I'm just giving my thoughts on it. A while back on another server I read a conversation where some people were dissing the person who made Magical Boy on Tapas because they're not trans, even though they did a lot of research beforehand. I was kind of reflecting that, but I also empathize with people who feel uncomfortable with people who've never experienced a certain form of oppression writing about it.

Pff I've never been a janitor, but dang it! You can't stop me from having a janitor character!

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Janitors are the coolest guys, I'm telling ye.

Most chill people in the land.

B'ys, they can get along with anyone, I swear.

DanitheCarutor

They're like real life superheroes.

Deo101 [Millennium]

We're not saying not to write other skin tones, gender, etc. Just to be sensitive about it and aware that you can't extrapolate someone else's life experiences from your own, you have to ask

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

there's a difference between writing a janitor and writing a touchy topic like racism. Anyways, even if I was writing a janitor I'd do a ton of research on the job

Deo101 [Millennium]

Sorry I use a cane and I can tell when people didn't ask someone who uses a cane what it's like. It goes the same for a lot of things

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I'm not saying you are saying that! Simply addressing something I've encountered before.

I've used a cane before, though temporarily. It was...a pain in the ass, honestly.

Well, more like a pain in my leg. And my arm.

DanitheCarutor

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) Sorry, I was joking since Keii was talking about writing muscular guys and parents. It would be sad if I didn't know the difference between racism and an occupation. Lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

In any case, I don't think that writing somebody of an ethnic minority necessitates much on its own. Delving into racial issues, sure, yeah that requires a lot, but I wouldn't say that of writing the character itself.

I'd say the same of sexuality and gender identity if you're not delving into the respective issues thereof. If you know what you're doing, i don't think there's too much to it.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

@Page, Rambler Extraordinaire! Yeah, I think that's what a lot of us are saying. There is a difference between writing a character who's [this identity] vs writing a story that's all about exploring that identity.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

The latter requires a lot more research, agreed.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

oh i know @DanitheCarutor , you write a lot of lgbt characters after all. just adding my thoughts, not diagreeing

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

"If you know what you're doing" is the tricky part though

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Well, that's not that difficult in most cases. There is a sea of available literature.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

There's.... the problem of marginalized folks pointing out concerns in a work, and non-marginalized people dismissing their concerns because they don't see the issue.

Deo101 [Millennium]

It's also really easy to ask a person for their real life experience

People are usually, in my experience, more than willing to take some time and answer a few questions.

DanitheCarutor

On the Magical Boy thing, like I said, it wasn't you all, it was people on a different server and I wanted to bring it up since it's related to the topic. To do a more serious comparison, I've never had psychosis or schizophrenia but I'm writing a character like that. I did a lot of research beforehand though, like, A LOT.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Like for disabilities it's very easily to find all kinds of Medical information, but almost no first hand experience is available. So what happens is people are very accurate medically, but then extrapolate what living like that is like and still end up with a disengenuous story

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Surely, there's available literature on the subject? I'm sure that I could find some.

Deo101 [Millennium]

And Dani, same with me and schizophrenia. It's for a future comic, but I've been researching it and interviewing people for years now to be sure I get a story that would at the very least not hurt them

I mean I would think a better resource would be YouTubers with those things, actually.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

For a lot of topics, it's easier to find a firsthand experiencer willing to talk to you than to find some existing literature on the exact thing you didn't know you needed

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah like My condition is very rare and the best you could find on it for firsthand experience is like. A forum that's super old and inactive

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I still remember one review where the person said "I have a certain disability, and I'm sure this author doesn't have it -- but they know someone who does -- because they're describing the visible symptoms with uncanny accuracy, but are guessing all wrong about how it feels/how it affects your life in invisible ways."

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's a huge pitfall, I feel. There can be a big sensitive thing that you aren't even aware is a thing; therefore, you don't think to do any research on that facet.

Deo101 [Millennium]

It's really easy to make a post on social media like "hey can I interview people with ___ for a writing project?"

DanitheCarutor

Openness depends on the topic. It's really hard getting people's experiences with certain mental illnesses, also the small number of people suffering from it. I had a really hard time finding people willing to talk about certain things, especially professionals since they usually don't want to talk to you without paying money for it.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

^ That's also a good point.

Deo101 [Millennium]

That's true

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I think we're going back to the purity thing. You can't expect someone to truly represent the "invisible ways" it affects you very well considering they're...invisible.

Deo101 [Millennium]

You can ask

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

But I would definitely recommend trying to reach out to people with firsthand experience, and seeing if that's an option.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I've been able to shoot emails off to professors before for questions. They're usually happy to answer a question or two.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

This is not at all like the purity thing IMO.

DanitheCarutor

A decent resource I found was a mental health forum, you have to get accepted to join, but it's basically everyone talking about their experiences with being mentally ill or being a volunteer for mental health care centers. Unfortunately there aren't any psychologists on the forum... Just nurses and caregivers on the non-ill side.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Again, there's a spectrum here...there's all kinds of possibilities between "how dare your extensive research have a single imperfection" and "wow, you didn't even try".

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, and it's not even a single lane spectrum! It's very complex and multifaceted/multilayered

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And we're talking about this for marginalized people, but it can apply to any group/culture/situation you're not part of -- just look at any story where a European writer has an American character drive across the US in a couple hours

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

Lmaoooo

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Or americans write Germans getting lost in their woods.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Alright, multilayered? How so? It's a spectrum from "B'y, you're writing about a black man in the 1700s being exalted in America" to "Why am I reading this ethnic studies textbook?"

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Naw mate, pick a direction and you‘ll find a street or at least marked trail in half an hour.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Okay, I can't answer that without draining my energy reserve for the next 20 weeks

DanitheCarutor

Lmao! As dumb as it sounds, something like that can also apply to animals. Like the thing Disney did with lemmings, and how Jaws portrayed sharks which caused this spike in shark hunting because everyone thought they were these monsters.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Would it be possible to summarize?

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

We've talked about a bunch of different aspects already -- like, how well did you research the medical symptoms vs. how well did you represent the day-to-day experience

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

No (at least for me), precisely because it's so complex and multilayered.

RebelVampire

This is a good convo and I am happy everyone has remained civil. That being said, I kind of feel it's gone a bit off-topic for an extended time regarding this week's question

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

it's hard to know what's worth a mature tag or not when even the websites themselves are vague. I started off with a character having the trait of cursing a lot, but then dropped that as i became paranoid of wts content guidelines

but i've gotten a decent audience since then and wts hasn't deleted my pages or anything so(edited)

i have no idea what the line is

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Webtoons is extra mysterious

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I host my own stuff, so I just put warnings up when a specific storyline is going to be more intense than the comic's average

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

because their comment system will auto censor words like "vague" (it becomes "***ue" or something like that) so you'd think they really don't want ANY cursing?

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

yes! that has happened to me

Deo101 [Millennium]

Su***ious

Is one I see a lot

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

someone commented "sperm" on my pages once so i know wt doesn't censor that at least

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...is that why the kids these days are just saying "sus" now

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

******in's Creed

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i don't understand what is the swear in suspicious?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

lmao

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

It's a racial slur in some regions

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ohhhh

i know what you mean

yeah rip

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

An auto-censor like that just makes a normal discussion forum seem 100x more scandalous/insulting than it actually is...

Deo101 [Millennium]

I got used to talking around then from mmo games ahahaha

Those chats that squelch you if you say one curse or something close to it by accident

But! On topic, I think asking whether something is too mature is a good idea, having a kind of beta audience or sensitivity reader kind of thing.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think it's fine to make your own judgment calls as long as you're consistent, so readers know the same things will be reliably warned for

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

a beta reader wouldn't neccessarily know more about wt than me though

when it comes to blurry content guidelines that is

might help with mature or triggering content

because your tolerance might be different from other people's

Deo101 [Millennium]

Oh I mean like "hmmm I think this is a bit much. Do you think this is a bit much?"

And they go "na this seems like pg 13 to me." Or "hmmm I think it could probably freak someone out you might wanna lightly warn."

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

it's a blurry line because sometimes an arm getting ripped off stylishly is less triggering than a realistic depiction of like, a fingernail being ripped off

just gotta go by feeling, i suppose

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yep

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I agree that this is a case where there's no reason to think a beta reader has better judgment than you have yourself

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

yeah my friends are all like me

DanitheCarutor

WTs is weird. I used to have my comic up there totally uncensored, they featured it on the front page for about a month, but when someone flagged the nudity they wouldn't put the pages back up. Like... you think they would have known already? The nude scene is within the first 20 pages.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

and don't think much of gore and swearing and such

fuck dani don't say that you're making me paranoid again

RebelVampire

Classic it only takes one person to ruin something for everyone else

DanitheCarutor

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) From what I've seen of your nude scenes, I don't think anyone will really notice. I didn't even notice until you brought it up one time on here... or maybe it was in the Webcomic Updates server.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i hope so but as rebel said only takes one staff member

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Can i just chime in to say that the auto censoring with what y'all have said about WT really turns me off from that platform. Not into a site having that power, regardless of who uses it. It's like we said here, be responsible with your work with tags, but that extra hand in the pot makes me think of tumblr style censors and im not a fan.

Does tapas do that too?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Webtoon doesn't really have tags, it just has a toggle for a series being mature

They both do

So they don't get removed from app stores

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Ye i guessed as much

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Tapas has this feature that lets creators tag individual episodes as mature. BUT there is an additional layer -- if your comic is too mature even with the mature tag, they're forced to hide it from their iOS app, due to Fruit Company regulations.

DanitheCarutor

WT is trash, and the reader base is made up of children, don't go there! Tapas is pretty alright, they're fine with my comic being uncensored there, and they don't censor comments.

Yeah, there's what Keii said about the Apple app too.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

And it's up to Fruit Company to determine whether it's too mature or not. (Mine is too mature because of body hair, and I was told they'd put it back on the app if I erased the body hair in a specific episode)

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Still not a fan of that kind of censorship. And i agree with dani

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

ohh yeah i remember that body hair thing kei

DanitheCarutor

Oh crap, were we not supposed to name drop the app?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Excuse me body hair

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Webtoons on the other hand will straight up remove any too mature episodes across all of their platform...s (site, iOS, android) if Google says "this is too mature"

Deo101 [Millennium]

I don't think it's censorship, it's more not allowing certain things on your platform

They're not saying you can't make it just that you can't post it there

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

It is censorship U cant post ur piece in its intended form

Like....body hair Wtf

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think that depends on how you define censorship

In any case, it's definitely not ideal.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

That is so .... Like Way to show what standards they want

DanitheCarutor

Gah the body hair thing. Thinking about it, I never got contacted by Tapas about my comic's mature content, but they probably knew trying to censor it would be a lost cause. Lol They probably just threw straight off the app.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

That's horrible Dani

DanitheCarutor

Naah, I don't mind. It's still allowed on the desktop site, and that's the only version I use so it's like nothing ever happened.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Still a gross move on their part. Not enthused with the passion to appease app stores with removing content that isn't 'suitable', but that is a diff convo.

DanitheCarutor

As one last derailing bit, if you're ever looking for a hosting site, Comicfury is the best for mature and adult work. They don't censor ANYTHING! Except hate-speech.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Oh i keep seeing more and more talk about that! Can i ask u more about it in shop talk?

DanitheCarutor

Sure, go ahead! I'll answer to the best of my abilities.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Wow

Just caught up

Back to the warnings thing...(edited)

In my experience, there are certain reasonable leaps in seriousness in comics, and other times when it appears jarring and out of nowhere, but in that case, I think it's simply bad writing, unless of course, it's a genre like horror.

But I think an author deciding to put content warnings should be up to the author on a case by case basis.

There are simply too many variables to come up with specific ground rules

As an example, I have a scene later on in my comic where a child dies. I don't show how it happens, but I was planning on showing the body afterwards. Nothing too gruesome, but definitely some broken bones. And I have been told completely opposite things, that it should be okay because I'm not showing the actual death, and on the other side, that showing the body at all is terrible, and I shouldn't do it. My concern is... If I don't show the body, how will the readers know that the child is dead? And how will I show the reactions of the other characters? It's just too complicated and specific of an issue to rely on general guidelines.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

B'ys, the real answer is to stop writing webcomics altogether! I'm telling ye! no webcomic, no problem!

I mean, sure, we'll be bereft of artistic output and dreams will be crushed...but hey, less stuff to do. Silver lining.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

what you mean most of us has made somewhat a living doing comics lol(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Lol, I want to make comics so uhhhhh???

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Aw...That sounds sad but depends how the body is presented? I mean I've seen mystery games with afew dead characters? Not a child yet.(edited)

Sometimes I've seen Anime do a light censorship by showing a bloodied child's shoe or gloves, or an arm but it can be disturbing(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

It's just that... dead children is a sensitive topic

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, a limp arm is what I often see

DanitheCarutor

I think it's because showing dead children is considered taboo? Like some games where you can kill other characters won't give you the ability to kill children, as well as movies that show character deaths won't show a child's death. It might be too insensitive for some people because children are innocent, and many people have had/are having kids, so showing them might be extra upsetting? At least that's what I assume is the reason behind someone saying not to show the child's death.

Ah, didn't notice Cronaj already said it in much fewer words.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Ah yes, that reminds me that there are places where I put up different warnings than what the comic has - my side stories. Since my side stories are often ways for me to explore different styles of storytelling than the comic proper, they can often have different themes. Off the top of my head - one side story I wrote had a warning for cussing, one had a warning for descriptions of violence against a child, and one had a warning for getting in a bit deep into a character's PTSD. (oddly enough, both of those latter warnings were in reference to the same character, just with a time gap of a few years. though the PTSD in the one story involved a completely different event than the violence depicted in the other story. pejiba's had it rough)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

@Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!) , @Cronaj (Whispers of the Past) , I was making a joke. :p

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I think the worst thing I'm going to show visually is a dead body and the whole story is about there being a dead body so I don't feel the need for any additional internal content warnings. I think my rule of thumb is just not to show anything that would be more shocking or upsetting than the premise of the comic would have you expect, and to have all warnings at the outset.

I agree with snuffysam's approach to separating darker and scarier content into side stories with their own content warnings or at least I would take a similar approach myself. It's okay to make stories that depict difficult topics but I think it's better not to disrupt the flow of a more lighthearted story if it can be avoided. Exploring difficult topics outside of the main story is a good solution to that

sagaholmgaard

I put a content warning the first time there was some violence and blood in my comic, since the previous pages had been mostly cute so I figured it was warranted. I'm coming up to the second time something potentially triggering happens- a guy gets killed 'on screen', but I don't think it's rendered in a worse way than the first time so I'm considering whether it's good to warn every time a scene like this comes up or if the first warning is enough to readers to have opted out if they dont want that sort of content

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

I had a read-up on age ratings and found out Nyx+Nyssa would fall under PEGI-16 due to realistic violence towards human characters, and will simply stick a 16+ sign into the corner of my page, which links to a conscience explanation why.

Desnik

So recently I've joined a writer's group and they ask people to stick warnings upfront so that readers can opt out of reading something that will upset them. I've found that it's helpful to warn for things that cause certain phobias, religious criticism, and minority experiences depicted w/o a sensitivity reader's guidance. I would also warn for drugs/alcohol usage since reading about that kind of experience can be a trigger for addictions.

I don't tend to write about anything super visceral but when reading I know I appreciate warnings about certain types of gore or violence

I think it's beneficial to be extremely specific with tags because for some reason YA-rated stuff can be very violent (so that makes age-based ratings completely nonsensical). Also not every story is going to treat serious issues with the same gravity so I think it's helpful to mention if some aspect is being treated in a melodramatic/unrealistic manner on purpose.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Like a standard comic might take say... 10 pages or more. Webtoon tends to shorten this roughly by half. Or by the 3rd or 4th episode, that major plot point happens.(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I feel "have a natural flow" is easier said than done, and also can mean very different things for different stories, and even different readers responding to one story.

(Maybe we should move this to shop talk as it's not relevant to this week's topic?)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

oh this is in shop talk? ok, I thought creator babble was relevant to this.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Nah, creator babble, if I understand it correctly, is specifically for weekly questions. This week's question is about content warnings

AntiBunny

My story is heavily inspired by film noir, so I think the occasional burst of violence should be expected.

[augujerdeer]

🍎👠🎃🌆👂😱💬!!! Feel free to not answer any of them!

IM CRYING BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY SENT INE THANK YOU jnsjshdjhsdjh

🍎what are yall’s favourite foods?

I think this is gonna be a long post now that I think about it, but i’m asking everyone what their favourite food would be if they could only pick one or two (not everyone answered or can but >:0)

Mine (Jamie) would be pancakes! or grilled salmon! OR SPICY TUNA SASHIMI!!!!

Kris, Chara and Matthew immediately just have chocolate as their answer dicenksfvjk but kris says “anything” and he lives up to it sometimes

Jaiden says gummy bears and gummy worms (all he eats is CANDY)

Kobe says flowers,,,,

Sal is picking between pizza and cheesecake smoothies

Peter says he doesn’t have one yet ;;

👠how difficult is it for y'all to agree on one cohesive outfit?

So this kind of depends on how many people are out, but I usually follow whoever wants to wear something if only one person is requesting something (Like when Kris would screech and ask for me/us to wear the pink hoodie or his sequins sneakers)

But if there’s multiple people, (usually Kris, Chara, or Matthew) it might take a while ksjskjskjs but generally everyone would go rock-paper-scissors or let the other person have us wear what they want! Usually because they deserve this turn or we take turns :0

🎃how many head mates could be considered scary?

HMM,,, I guess I would say Severous first. He’s a 8+ foot werewolf man, he is a BEAR

his fur is PITCH BLACK especially at night and his eyes and drool glow white (so he has no pupils, that’s his entire eyes), so if you’re in the forest in Providence in the middle of the night, you’ll just see a scary OwO face in the dark

HE DOESNT DO THE OWO FACE BUT ITS NOT LIKE I CAN COPY IT IN TEXT FORM

he always stands on two legs unless he’s SPRINTING , but honestly??? HES BABY and we all love him, Kobe calls him “PUPPY” and even drew him a few times while fronting ;;;;;;;; He’s actually a dad to one of our littles Penny and is gay and dates someone from one of my partners’ system

Also he doesn’t speak very well? He used to speak fluently but overtime and he was recovering from being a persecutor, his ability to speak was kind of, disintegrating? So he only speaks in SUPER SHORT and almost broken english sentences. if you visit him you can catch him reading children’s books and practicing to read and speak again,,, he’s baby,,,,

Chara (from undertale) could be considered scary inspace becaus ethey can go goopy- they’re not a scary person but if they want to scare you, (especially if you don’t know who they are i mean), they will be intimidating and stuff ;; when i first met them, they did spook me, and their eyes are very bright red

Sal (from Sally Face) I guess could be considered spooky because i was drawing him in class one time (prosthetic ON of course) and my friend said he looked scary ;;;? poor sal;;; he’s not scary at all

🌆what does your headspace look like?

*clasps hands together* goodness it’s a good thing i made this map. it’s VERY OLD but it’s still the same except imagine everything is WAAAAAY more spaced Out!

honestly i need to move the teleporters and mansion higher up (and the main tree closer to them) but this is it!!!

The most common places people go to is The Mansion, The Bunker, The Farmhouse, and The Picnic Ground! People when going for walks in the forest usually stick around the Picnic Grounds-Cave Pool-Farmhouse Triangle but usually can go anywhere- the forest is SO big though (alven took me flying once and it stretches to the horizon)

The Mansion is where most of us live! Here you can find Jaiden and the kids (Kobe, Aco, and Penny– and Carla (Carla is an NPC [who is aware of the outside?] but we don’t care she is family). Alven is also here with his lab, so is Joseph and Louise!! (and their dog, Troy). On the outside, you can’t see the mansion, only two giant doors (nobody ever uses kdndckdocsl we honestly just use the teleporters to go anywhere– Also, everything you see INSIDE the meadow excluding the bunker was what our headspace FIRST looked like!!! it was the start of everything ;; Jaiden made the mansion. The mansion has two main rooms- The Main Hall, and The Tall Corridor. There’s a looooot of history here

The Farmhouse is where I (Jamie) live! But i’m not inspace a lot so it’s honestly empty until i meditate there ;;

The bunker existed and is a place some people permanently moved to because we started having some Bad Refuses To Do Good Persecutors, or just bad people. They were VERY violent so half of us went to hide- and eventually the entire system actually moved to the bunker for almost a year and a half before moving out- and then some people stayed- mainly Matthew. People who live in the bunker are Matthew, Kris, Peter, Jade, Chara, Liam, and Sal! Icari should be here somewhere but i think she’s still hiding ;;

Most of the time if we have a new person, they move to the bunker right away. There’s a teleport system almost all over the frequent spots in the headspace so they can easily leave and enter! Matthew lives one the second ground below the 1st ground below because of some bad things that happened- he never leave the bunker because being outside scares him a lot- especially with the entire headspace being a forest :( you need special access to get down there

The Picnic grounds isn’t very special to me personally but Jaiden made it so people can have picnics!! It’s honestly SUPER pretty oh goodness, and no matter what time of day (unless it’s night) the sun is always shining nicely and it’s so pretty there, and people actually go there!!

The only people that don’t go there are Joseph and Louise because we had one bad person hurt them badly in that area,

Also the Ruined City i didn’t mention because– no one goes there- but we all know it exists. Basically it’s a purely grey/monotone/greyscale land? Like the moment you enter, the world transitions to black and white (not your body but the environment) and the only things that have colour are the miss and greenery in the background (mostly grass and parks, not a lot of trees). all the buildings are collapsed or destroyed in some way- so imagine a big area with degree and rubble and standing building but there’s so many destroyed parts like one building is missing an entire second floor and another has a giant gaping hole not eh side, etc.

we also don’t go there because it’s dangerous- there are giant SPIDER robots that patrol the area- we still don’t know why, but they shook lasers! (come back to this post later because I WILL add a picture of what i’m talking about!! i just don’t have my phone on me)

ANYWAY THERES MORE BUT ITS TOO MUCH TO PUT HERE

WE ALSO HAVE ANOTHER PLANET

👂What kind of music do y'all like?

Jamie - what do you mean people have favourite music? i’m just kidding uksdeijfdkj i like indie and broadway!!! pop is pretty cool but it’s not my first choice at all ;;; rock and metal hurts my ears

Chara - they have 4 playlists on spotify! One playlist is called Soft Knives for calm music (it’s usually happy but there could be some sad ones there- but no angst songs- imagine songs you can sleep to or calm down with). Blunt Knives is for angsty or apathetic moods- and Angry Knives is for ANGRY LOUD music. The have a 4th playlist called Chara’s Classical Collection. Chara can range from Classical music to indie music death metal and rock. They usually hate pop

Kris - he loves rap and r&b! though he loves a lot of music besides those! He loves tally hall and kid bloom :0 mostly chill or music that makes you go aW YEAH (his words) he also has Classic Songs in his playlist. So if you have it one shuffle, you’re listening to some sick bops and then all of a sudden Rockefeller Street Nightcore comes on and you get whiplash. doesn’t like metal or rock. He has a second playlist called “it’s Saturday Morning” for stuff like heo soul or “music you can dissociate to but not in a bad way” (Listen to Sugarcoat by Kid Bloom or Different State of Mind (some artist) for a general idea)

Matthew - rock and stuff similar to chemical romance and panic! at the disco. they like metal and rock but he says Sal’s and Chara’s are too aggressive for his taste- and hen you find out he sometimes listens to screamo

Sal - honestly i find his playlist super weird ? Some music sounds weird to me but otherwise his playlist is full over a lot of genres ! It’s kind of wack and funky- not the genre- but the amount of variety he has. And in his 2nd playlist is death/metal and rock- a bunch of loud music that can be fast sometimes too- is not afraid to head bang in public and do air guitar

Peter - We’re not sure yet but he likes music from his time- plus old music- specifically New Wave for now!his playlist is super new and he hasn’t been here a while so we’re not sure o>o

Jade - Soft calm or upbeat and happy music

Kobe and Aco - they are babies- Kobe still sings the ABC’s everyday so

😱do your headmates have any phobias?

i don’t think any of us has phobias- because it’s defined as “irrational fear” actually wikipedia says it can be CAUSED so nevermind dkjjkfd

Honestly these feel like triggers more than phobias butnit first thendescription of a phobia so;; i’m putting POSSIBLE because we’re not sure

Chara - Possible Nyctophobia (fear of the dark, but specifically extreme pitch blackness for Chara), Possible Ecclesiophobia (fear of the church -either building or what it represents])

Matthew - Agoraphobia most probably (fear of going outdoors/leaving the house, some say wide open spaces)

Sal - somewhat Cynophobia but wants to overcome it (fear of dogs) ((likes dogs but is afraid of them honestly))

Kris - Monophobia/Autophobia (Fear of isolation and abandonment) ((this is a big one))

That’s all i can think of for now

💬free space! one cool fact!

uuHHH,,,,,, i can’t think of any, but i know one thing: i love our system and i can see everyone’s trying really hard to take care of each other or are doing a lot to process their own memories and feelings ;;;

[thotyssey]

On Point With: Mocha Lite

As most people who have followed NYC drag in the past decade can attest, here is one of the city’s most talented and provocative queens. Whether she’s giving you a crushing ballad or a smashing series of high energy dance moves, she is always--fascinatingly--equal parts drama and kiki. Brooklyn Pride is happy to have her this year, and Thotyssey is happy to get her for this (long overdue) minute!

Thotyssey: Miss Mocha, hello! Thanks for chatting today, how are you doing?

Mocha Lite: Hello! Doing better... very well, actually.

Glad to hear it! It’s a beautiful day, but we’re almost to the point of Unbearable Drag Weather! Will that be a bad situation for you, or is it easy to handle at this point?

Haha! It's definitely not easy--I lost an eyebrow just last night. Every summer I do my share of complaining, but I remember somehow that I survived last summer... so I power through.

[Photo: Katelyn Baron]

How long have you been a working queen in New York City?

Just under ten years, I believe.

Here is a wonderfully vague and broad question: what is the key to longevity in this business, when most queens kind of disappear after two or three years?

I can't say I know, exactly. But I'd say, first you have to want it... and want it even when it hurts. I've been through many phases, but nothing is more successful for me than focusing on my strengths. That, and I just having an inborn love for the stage. It's kind of all I know!

And few can do it better. So you are an exquisite, multiracial native Long Islander. Were dancing, performing, fashion etc. also always part of your identity?

I’ve been performing as long as I can remember: community theater and the arts are always where all my passion has gone. Drag is really a great way to do it all.

A lot of times when I see you on the stage, it really does look like you are acting out the lyrics and / or playing characters. Does your headspace go into another realm when you're performing?

Well, I guess! It's the most fun part of drag for me-- besides making people smile. Allowing myself permission to commit one hundred percent to a feeling onstage in front of a group of strangers is [intoxicating] and thrilling. So sometimes I do need to really disappear, as it were. It really does depend on the nature of the the number, really.

You and Misty Meaner have been partners on and off stage for quite some time. Was it a situation where one of you discovered drag first and the other was like, "I wanna do this too?”

Haha, absolutely not! We both had an interest in the art form--getting to see amazing queens on Fire Island is where we started to see that there is, in fact, a world that took it seriously. And we really wanted to be a part of it. We definitely began together, and grew together.

Where were some of the venues you two started performing in?

Around that time, I did a lot of going out just to be notified--as is the beginning of most drag adventures. But I had some great opportunities at The Ice Palace, with Logan Hardcore and Ariel Sinclair. Also, some great places around Long Island that aren't around anymore, before I moved to Brooklyn.

You and Misty were basically there in Brooklyn from the beginning. What was going on in that scene when you two first started doing shows there?

Not a whole lot, to be honest. I was working mostly in Hell’s Kitchen when I first came out here. Sugarland and Metropolitan were the the most popular watering holes at the time... but Sugarland is where I really got to watch the beginnings of the crazy scene we know today.

The drag landscape that came out of ther was a little less polished then what was happening in Manhattan, a lot more “anything goes” and art-driven. Did you find yourself more comfortable in Brooklyn than in the more Broadway-influenced HK scene?

Nope, I'm comfortable anywhere there's a stage. I mean, there are some obvious differences between the drag of Brooklyn and Manhattan, but there are even bigger differences between me and some of my fellow BK girls. We are all different! That's only one of the coolest things about drag.

“Misty and Mocha” were basically the only drag couple in the city for a while, and that was considered really odd and novel to a lot of people at the time. But since then, drag couples have become much more common. Wouldn't it seem obvious that the best person to understand what it’s like to live a drag queen life is another drag queen?

To me, that does seem obvious. And I would say it's definitely a plus, having someone who gets how hard it can be. We've been together for a long time, and like any relationship issues exist. Drag has never been one of them.

Misty has a drag child now, Sassy Frass Meaner! And Princess Bitch can be considered your own drag daughter. What's the best way to be a drag parent? Princess is of my coven, a sister witch--also Lilith LeFae, and Catrina Lovelace. The idea of drag parenting is daunting to me; that kind of pressure makes me nervous. I would say guidance is definitely golden with drag, though. I've had a lot of very incredible queens teach me some really incredible things. The best way to be a drag parent, I'd say, is just to be friends, really--share information, and do your best to help each other.

Besides Lovegun, TNT was another major hub of BK nighltife where you had shows that has since closed. Do you miss those two spots, or is it more like "that's the past, time to move on?"

Any queer space shutting down will always make me sad, and I'll miss them both. TNT was definitely a very special place for me, and many others, I loved that place, and kicked ass on that stage for a few years.

And then there was Boots & Saddle. You and Misty had a long-running show there, then parted with the venue on bad terms, but ultimately mended fences with the owner. You even resumed doing a show there for those last few months before Boots abruptly closed. Would you go back there to do a gig when the place reopens under a new name and management, if that opportunity presents itself?

Sure, why not--if they'd want us! Although a lot of people lost jobs when they closed. I'd have no problem getting in the back of the line, so to speak.

Y'all are very busy now with gigs as it is. On Tuesdays and Fridays you give shows at Macri Park in Brooklyn. Do you usually have the same crowds on both nights, or are they two very different cultures?

The shows differ in style, and structure. Like you said earlier, Sassy Frass Meaner is Misty's daughter, so she is very often with us [on Tuesdays, along with] the incredible Devo Monique. But I love meeting new queens, and having them at either show.

Queerpong at Phoenix on Thursdays is your longest running gig now.

Yes Queerpong has been with us for five drunken years--it's amazing, I can barely believe it! We started the party because where we are from on Long Island, beer pong is a standard--but often hetero-dominated--[game]. So we just wanted a very gay twist on the whole vibe, and it's been so great. 

 And have you and Misty ever played against each other?

Many times. She often wins, she's really good!

This season, you're also hosting a RuPaul’s Drag Race viewing party right before Queerpong. So... I guess Eureka's gonna win this thing, right?

Maybe! She's pretty hardcore. I'm definitely a fan of hers.

Regarding this whole “Azealia Banks versus RuPaul, versus Monet, versus all Drag Race, versus all gays” business: should we be purging Azealia from our music libraries even though ”Anna Wintour” is such a bop?

I mean, who knows? If you want to go that far, that's fine I guess. Think of it this way: I'm not sure we'd love a lot of artists the way we do today if social media were even a decade older than it is. We have, in ways, lost track of how to pick battles. 

That being said, I perform a lot of Banks. I expect to hear things from people, but I don't really care. I perform Biggie Smalls too, but they throw dollars at his sexist and violent lyrics, and at me, for years (to clarify, I'm not comparing their work).  I'm just saying, beloved artists sometimes say and do wild things. It's up to you to discern what's really worth your time.

On a Lite-r note (gag), you and Misty recently started hosting a Saturday night party at the Boiler Room in the East Village. You're probably the first queens to do a show in that neighborhood bar in, well, maybe ever? How's that going?

It's fun! The staff is so nice. But it's still the beginning, and we're just getting to know the crowd... but so far I love it!

And this is cool: you will be performing as a solo act for the Brooklyn Ball  at Littlefield on Brooklyn Pride Saturday, June 9th! It has a cute theme: the “strawberry social” from To Wong Foo. How do you think that's gonna go?

I had a rehearsal today, and I'm getting things here and there together. I'm feeling confident it's going to be really fun!

Congratulations on you and Misty being nominated again for Nightlife Legend Hall of Fame at the Brooklyn Nightlife Awards! This has gotta be your year, right?

Yes! Fingers crossed! Thank you very, very much. It's exciting to be nominated, and I'm even more excited to pick out what to wear!  It's going to be a crazy weekend.

What else is on the horizon for you?

Well our Pride party at The Boiler Room is coming up! All my events this month are gonna be great--I mean, it's PRIDE!

Happy Pride! Okay, last question: since you and Misty have basically done them all (well, probably not Christina and Demi's “Fall In Line” yet, but will anyone?)... what is the best drag duet lip sync number to do?

I’d have to say in the spirit of Pride, “Happy Days / Get Happy” by Barbra Streisand and Judy Garland. It's a perfect syncopation of positively-motivated, pleasant sounds, arranged in a way that is fun to learn and perform and guaranteed to please!

My troubles are forgotten! Thanks, Mocha!

Mocha Lite co-hosts shows with Misty Meaner at Macri Park (Tuesdays and Fridays, 11pm), Phoenix Bar (Thursdays, 10pm) and the Boiler Room (Saturdays, midnight). Check Thotyssey’s calendar for Mocha’s full schedule of upcoming gigs, and follow her on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

On Point Archives

[dragonbagel]

who needs a hero?

part 8 of everything is not what it seems

sup bitches i’m back

Rhys passed out before they’d even boarded the shuttle. He’d struggled a bit longer once Jack had carried him out of his room (or, more accurately, his cell), but at the sight of the garish alien outside being restrained by Nisha, he’d fallen into unconsciousness with little more than a pained sigh. Jack was honestly glad that the nauseatingly skinny man was no longer pleading with him or attempting to scratch up his back like some wild animal, although he swore he could still hear Rhys’ voice hoarse in his ear.

“Come on!” he barked, not even bothering to wait for Nisha-- not even she would try to cross him in a state like this.

Hyperion soldiers darted past him as they flooded the station under Jack’s orders to “find out what the fuck’s going on and kill those sons of taints,” combat boots echoing as they scurried across the metal floor. A few had given sideways glances towards Jack and Rhys, but the murderous look on Jack’s face had them all but falling over themselves in an attempt to put space between themselves and their bloodthirsty overlord.

Jack-- well, Jack felt strange. On one hand, he recognized that hazy red headspace he was inhabiting, the literal mental “killzone” that his anger threw him into. But on the other... It was as if there was something dragging him down, a quicksand pulling harder on his trousers with each step. Rhys’ bony frame felt like an anchor weighing on him, though in some capacity he still knew that he could easily use his boyfriend like a barbell and not even break a sweat. So then why was his shirt sticking to his back, adhering to his skin via the perspiration dripping from his hairline down to his tailbone? Why was his entire body shaking worse than it had with the exertion of running endlessly around Elpis searching for vaults?

The tremors wracking his body didn’t abate even after he set Rhys’ limp body down onto one of the shuttle’s seats, his hands trembling so badly that Nisha had to swat him away and secure Rhys’ safety harness on her own. Jack didn’t speak, for once at a loss for words. He couldn’t draw his gaze away from the way Rhys’ head lolled limply against his shoulder, the way that the hideous gray jumpsuit he wore hung like oversized drapes off his frame. He gently cupped Rhys’ face with his hand, half convinced this was nothing but a hallucination and that his hand would phase through into empty air. But physical skin, although uncannily cold, met his touch, and he let out a breath he hadn’t realized he’d been holding.

Things would be okay. Jack would make sure of that. Once he figured out what the fuck had happened, the medical staff would whip Rhys back into tip-top shape (if they valued keeping all their limbs attached), and things could go back to normal. They had to.

“Stay with me, Rhysie,” he whispered, shakily stroking Rhys’ hair back from his forehead.

He could feel Nisha’s concerned gaze trained on him as the ship roared to life, although he didn’t meet her eyes. He couldn’t deal with any pity or half-assed apologies meant to sound sympathetic (which just so happened to be Nisha’s forte). The lawbringer, luckily, could tell that Jack was about two seconds from losing his cool and getting them all killed in the process, so she kept her lips pressed tightly together as she navigated them back to Helios. It was only when the engines died down and the docking light flashed green that she finally spoke.

“Jackie,” she said, trying to somewhat keep the usual harshness out of her voice. “We’re back.”

Jack’s head snapped up at the sound of his name, the arm that he’d looped around Rhys’ shoulder tightening. “Did you call medical?”

Nisha nodded, opting for less words considering Jack seemed to be vibrating out of his skin in pure fear and anger-- and she was not about to be the one to set him off.

They both turned to watch as the hatch to the ship began to emit a series of clicks before finally unscrewing and swinging open to reveal one of Helios’ loading bays. A team of emergency workers poured in, somehow managing to gracefully tout a stretcher into the small space. Jack hovered as they slowly maneuvered Rhys onto it, fingers twitching overtop the gun holstered to his thigh. His impulsive triggerfinger nearly won out when one member of the medical squad accidentally touched a little too close to Rhys’ ass while lifting him, although Nisha managed to prevent that bloody disaster by putting a firm hand on Jack’s shoulder.

“Come on,” she said, pulling her friend back towards her so that he was no longer breathing down anyone’s neck. “Let them do their jobs.”

Jack clearly wanted to argue, especially with how his fingernails were practically drawing blood with how tightly his fists were clenched. He managed to keep his cool enough to put some distance between himself and the medical team, although he by no means was about to let them out of his sight.

Rhys looked fucking dead, his pale hand hanging over the side of the stretcher. Jack knew his emotions were clouding his judgment, but if anything happened to Rhys, if he’d somehow sustained less visible injuries...well, Jack had no qualms about beating this alien fucker to death.

Speaking of.

“What’d you do with our guest?” Jack asked, lip curling in disgust as he practically spat the last word.

“Had some soldiers lock it up in R & D,” Nisha replied, glancing over at Jack as she struggled to keep up.

“Perfect,” Jack said, his mind already wandering to the wonderful methods of torture he was about to inflict-- after he made sure Rhys was okay, of course.

Jack returned to hovering once they arrived at the medical station, snapping at the staff when they tried to force him to sit in the waiting room.

“Not happening, princess,” he said, looming over the nurse who was blocking his entrance to the actual ward.

The man was clutching his clipboard as if it would somehow shield him from Jack’s fury, and Jack watched with pure, angry satisfaction at the way the nurse’s Adam’s apple bobbed as he swallowed.

“R-right,” he stammered, finally realizing that he had no choice in the matter if he valued his life. “Rhys is in the room at the end of the hall.”

Jack grinned, his smile all teeth and most definitely still threatening. “Thanks, cupcake. That wasn’t so hard, was it?”

The nurse opted to keep his mouth shut, a smart move on his part. He stepped to the side so that Jack could pass, the other man already heading down the hall at a pace that rivaled even the most talented of mall walkers.

The doctor looked surprised when he yanked the door open, although she had enough common sense not to say anything. She turned back to the task of setting up an IV for Rhys, who was still unconscious. His cybernetic arm had been removed, the socket bruised like he hadn’t removed the appendage in months. Jack supposed he probably hadn’t.

Rhys’ face was also covered in bruises, the majority of which surrounded his neural port. His eyes remained closed, his chapped lips hanging slightly apart as he breathed.

“What happened?” Jack finally asked, folding his arms over his chest lest he let his anxiety show. “Is he okay?”

The doctor glanced up, studying Jack’s expression in a manner best described as clinical. She’d finished affixing the bag of fluids to the needle in Rhys’ arm, and had moved onto the task of disinfecting his bloodied hand.

“He’s severely dehydrated,” she said, gesturing to the IV in explanation. “Probably malnourished too.”

Jack nodded, tapping his foot impatiently. “But he’ll be fine, right?”

The doctor began to wrap a bandage around his flesh hand, her attention focused as she spoke. “The physical injuries appear to be minor, but we won’t know about the state of his cybernetics until he wakes up.”

“And that’ll be soon?” Jack said, his question tinted with the unspoken threat of what he’d do if the statement wasn’t true.

The woman sighed, brushing her hands off on her lab coat as she stood. “Rhys’ body has suffered severe trauma. He needs rest and nutrients.”

Jack frowned as he processed her response. “You didn’t answer my question.”

“The human body is incredibly self-preserving,” she said, unflinching under Jack’s gaze. “Give him time to heal.”

That still didn’t provide the answer Jack was looking for, but it didn’t seem like the doctor was going to provide anything else.

“Let me know when he wakes up,” he said, turning on his heel.

He assumed the doctor had nodded, as she seemed smart enough to know what was good for her. He didn’t have time to look back, though.

He had a prisoner to attend to.

[newsnigeria]

COVID-19 – What people say, and only 5 realities

by Amarynth, drawing together a braintrust from The Movable Feast Cafe We set up a ‘brain trust’ in the Cafe in order to write a combined sitrep for The Saker Blog about the Coronavirus. The new name in the taxonomy is COVID-19 but let’s stick to Novel Coronavirus for now. It is of course too early to come to any conclusions, but we can start isolating the discernible high level trends and perhaps get an early glimpse as to what effect the outbreak may have geopolitically and economically, although it is very early days. We will not attempt to look at the technical picture here – the numbers of recoveries, the death rates and the infection rates, rates of transmission, life of virus on surfaces and so on because the technical picture is not yet clear and all data is in a state of flux with opposing and inconsistent reports from all sides. One cannot expect otherwise as the world is still shooting at a rapidly moving target in terms of statistical ground and epidemiological analysis. In addition, we have professional organizations like the WHO and the CDC not really in lockstep and giving different pronouncements on a professional level. It is too early to draw conclusions. What people are saying: – Let us look for a moment as to what ‘people are saying’. (If you want to end up deeply into conspiracies, I would suggest you go to subReddits /r/Coronavirus and /r/China_Flu ) – What ‘people are saying’ runs the gamut from messages received in meditation, prayer, even channeling, and this information is being put out there as valid for everyone else in the face of no definitive information you can hang your hat on. – Every talking head on youtube has suddenly turned into an expert, both on China and on the Novel Coronavirus. Every uninformed blockhead has now turned into a specialist. Every Twitter feed out there now considers itself an insta-influencer. – Most of the western alternative news medias have suddenly decided to follow their governmental lead on China, and the message is overwhelmingly that Brutal China is indeed very Brutal and very Bad. Note this curse, and the spat is still continuing:

– It is a bioweapon because of how the Chinese are reacting. This was a conspiracy theory just a week ago, but now it is reaching mainstream. https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/tom-cotton-demands-beijing-prove-ncov-isnt-bioweapon-another-conspiracy-theory-goes – It is bioengineered because some Indian researchers have found strands of HIV in the analysis of the virus, but then had to retract their studies. – The Chinese stole it from Canada. – The US has a patent on Coronavirus. – Just a short time before the outbreak became public, Bill Gates et al did some kind of a scenario planning on the corona virii becoming a global pandemic – http://thesaker.is/moveable-feast-cafe-2020-02-17/#comment-762067 – China is attacking her own people to reduce population – Lab Accidents happen. (this is of course a pragmatic view, but usually Level 4 laboratories are situated very far away from the center of busy cities). – Chinese dissidents spread the virus – So, China is killing its dissidents and carrying out genocide against its own people. Here is an example of this thinking: https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=140446 – Wuhan was on the point of massive riots, Hong Kong Style against their government – The Chinese government is lying and not reporting correctly. The death rate is much higher. – The Chinese Defense Forces are riddled with virus infected soldiers, and they are being contained somewhere else. There is no information on this excepting wild speculation. – Every non-flattering video from China is being passed along salaciously; usually grainy and one cannot really figure out where it is from – no markings, road signs, store names or anything where anything can be identified.  The scuttlebut is that these mostly security camera videos and actively distributed by Falun Gong.  Your guess on this is as good as mine. As you can see from this list, and it is by no means exhaustive, all over the show, and there are literally 10’s more of these What the timing indicates The timing is suspicious no matter how you look at it. Manufacturing usually shuts down or goes slow over Chinese New Year / Spring Festival which can last as much as 15 days. So, economically, this was a good time for a virus (if China ‘did it’). On the other hand, this holiday gives rise to the greatest migration of people on our planet which also makes it an ideal time to infect a population (if someone outside of China ‘did it’). The timing so close to the signing of the of the US/China Phase I Trade Agreement, which the Chinese referred to as only a ‘cease fire’ in the trade war, and the US referred to as a great breakthrough, is suspicious. The Chinese were indicating that they are very hesitant to even go to a phase II negotiation. And of course, there is a black part of the actual agreement that we do not know about. The Main Tropes 1. The main trope out there is that this is a bioengineered bioweapon. But right at that point opinions diverge so widely that one can only ask questions, and not conclude anything. 2. The second trope is that people are being arrested widely. We’ve seen reports of arrests in Canada and in the US, and out of Harvard. Here is but one: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three-separate-china-related Not only are people being arrested, some are most probably being taken out. https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/canadian-scientist-center-chinese-bio-espionage-probe-found-dead-africa 3. The third trope is that China is “The Sick Man”, and we hate them for dumping this virus on the rest of us. Let me just say that the level of invective against China is not only unprecedented, it is also suspicious. Rebranding of the Coronoa Virus to the Chinese Virus is proceeding apace, even though it has a formal name now – COVID-19. In my life I have never seen such an overt manipulation of the common headspace such as this, since ‘weapons of mass destruction’. 4. The fourth trope is that the US, on a public and governmental basis has decided to vilify China, correctly or incorrectly. Note Mr Pompeo. Is he only taking an opportunity that is presented to him, or does he know more than what we think? https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pompeo-warns-governors-of-china-infiltration 5. The fifth trope is that the civilizational fear against China is suddenly out in the open for everyone to see. It is almost a morphic resonance of fear expressed against China and that China is the culprit. However, we don’t really know who the culprit is actually. We don’t even know if there is a culprit. Is China the culprit, or is China the victim, or is this a virus that spread from animal to human or has it escaped from some or other lab by accident (or on purpose)? We do not know any of this and this trope just creates more FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt). 6. The sixth trope is that China is wrong no matter what she does. Quarantine and even forced quarantine is expressed by the blockheads of Brutal China Cracking Down on Their People, without thinking what is actually necessary to do for this kind of outbreak, no matter where it comes from. One after the other video supposedly from China showing the so-called Brutal Chinese government is distributed with relish, with nary a thought that you and I are actually being protected by these heavy handed tactics.  The snoflakes are out in force talking about human rights, yet, by the looks of things, China is going all out protecting the many. Because there is a strange consistency in what the State (used generally) says, and what the alternative media says, this is more worrying than anything else. On the one hand nobody can believe the State, and on the other hand alternative media is reproducing and disseminating the message of the State. 7. The seventh trope is that the few voices, even here on The Saker Blog, that try to look at this realistically are drowned out in the general societal willingness to believe the worst. Viva free speech!?! The formal state, and the western alternative media are generally in lockstep on this issue. China is now attempting to go back to work. We do not know how successful this is, but some are trying to measure the actual air pollution to try and figure out if China has gone back to work, or not. Economically China has also given guidance to business, saying that this event is a force majeure, known colloquially in contractual terms as ‘an act of God’, and therefore they can renegotiate contracts, delivery dates and completion. Let us look at what is clear. 1. China is fighting for its life. The death-toll or even containment is not truly visible in any numbers as yet. This will have tremendous impact on supply lines and not only on China’s economy, but all parts of the international supply chain, upstream and downstream. China is acting on expressed unhappiness of their people. They are firing those who do not perform, who put red-tape in the path of directly fighting this virus. It may look brutal to lock people into their homes, but how many do they save by this action? Where do these get food? It is in the Chinese media that food gets delivered. This is something that the western youtube pundits (and their a-hole brothers) forget to report, although this is open and publicized in the Chinese media. 2. This is a catastrophe. It is not a flu, it is not a common cold, it is not something that 5G brought onto China, it is not God punishing the Godless red commies. Whatever it is, it is a catastrophe with world-wide consequences. We do not know enough to come to any meaningful conclusions except to say that considering the timeline, we are right to be suspicious and we may be right to prepare with the basic masks, gloves and limited public exposure, i.e., not visiting large gatherings, for a period of time. 3. If this virus continues, it will have societal impact that may be severe – we won���t shake hands, we won’t hug babies, social interaction will be vastly compromised, and a few more common contact methods like music concerts or sporting activies for humans will be left by the wayside. 4. If it continues much beyond the current level, the extensive economic fallout cannot be estimated.  You and I and no analyst in the world can truly get their arms around the economic fallout and the breakdown of worldwide supply chains.  Who knows, we may be out of a specific little part for a normal service of a vehicle, we may be out of medicines (the idea of the many people that are taking anti-depressants and such types of medicines having to go cold-turkey is quite scary, and there may be a severe shortage of simple medical equipment, like masks and gloves that are even now getting hard to source – just try buying masks on Amazon). 5. In the current analysis and according to what we have available, we do not yet know enough to be meaningful. Much more than that is pure speculation and gives rise to other agendas being seeded into the public narrative. What is clear, is that people are scared and terrified. Read the full article

[xflower-childx]

You can’t have the Rainbow without the Rain

It's funny because when I share the adventures from this past week everyone assumes I'm in such a bad headspace and that I'm so torn down by it, when honestly I feel such a weight lifted. Yes it's been stressful, and I've had a few breakdowns but honestly... I'm happy and God I've felt so much more free this week and I can breathe. L brought me more stress than comfort. I was always on edge and feared my words, actions, and future when it came to living with her. I always felt this form of spite from her, but after talking with my boss she thinks it came from jealousy, which makes me laugh because I can't see why someone could be jealous of me. I mean... I'm an incredibly broke bitch just trying to get through life. Thinking on it more though I can see it in a way, from messages I've gotten from her to her all around attitude. She never left the house for her, she only left for her parents, the grocery store, or a fucked up ex or two she never cut off. She only ever moped around, rarely did her stay at home job, and took all of her dad's money. She never cared about herself and was more negative than I was in Middle school. Which says A LOT. I would always invite her out on my hikes, runs to town, or even outings with friends and she would say no with some negative comment about herself or say 'Daddy needs me to go run to this, this and that store and mom needs her Taco Bell and I just hurt so bad and my head is pounding and I feel like ass'. I would ask why her father couldn't do his own errands (which honestly... he NEVER did but also he's working to provide for him, his wife and their 35 year old CHILD after triple bypass surgery) and she would make some comment about how they won't always be around and she has to help them, but honestly... If she ran errands for them she could buy for herself as well.

I hate to sit here and speak so negatively of her but I know she did the same while kicking me out. Two wrongs don't make a right of course but... I dunno M&M has agreed that she lost her fucking mind this past week especially and it probably was part of changing up her meds which of course she has a million medications so it wouldn't surprise me. I had suggested she goes to a therapist which she nearly did but always blamed it on the VA and them not calling her or something along those lines. There was always an excuse though. For everything.

I remember having so many talks with her about trying to do better and actually care about herself and her future. She would make these baby steps forward and be so close to doing something good for herself but then she would have a night terror, headache, bad thought or text from her toxic boy toy and then it would be ten steps backwards straight to crying in bed. It was such heavy negative energy my empathetic ass was draining close to empty all the time. I would encourage us to eat something good, healthy, and filling and even make it but then she would order Papa John's with 'Daddys' money.

I know I have a bad habit of wanting to 'Fix' people but I just don't like seeing the people I care about hurting. I hate knowing that they can do such simple small things things to help make a big impact in their life and mental health but just won't do it and say they can't. I am always happy to help encourage them and I'm all about being the hype girl for my tribe. I'm all for bringing out the best in them and watching them succeed and sharing how proud I am of them. It brings me such Joy because seeing them being proud of themselves is the greatest. I feel it for them... And when L felt it for herself It made me the happiest because I also felt all her self hate. I remember my first months there confusing her self hatred for my own. It was this odd feeling because I felt like I had moved past that point within myself. The point of literally hating every aspect of myself from looks to personality. It didn't make sense because I do see the beauty in myself at this point and I see the good I bring. So for me to have mistaken the opposite of everything I had worked so hard to improve for my own it had really brought me down and confused me. Of course I took myself to the mountains at that point and did some reflection and worked on figuring out where my head was and why it was diving into such a dark place again. It worked and I realized I didn't have these issues of self loathing with myself, it was me sucking in all of L's negativity and taking it as my own. This also started to happen more and more. Thankfully I had figured it out and worked on blocking it out by creating a force field around myself so it wouldn't be so bad. This ended up creating a lot of trips to the mountains and staying in my room more than being social with her which I never want for my living arrangement.

I love NC, I'm incredibly happy with the place I am at with myself and how I've fought to get where I am. I know I have more growing to do, and more to learn but ultimately I'm happy and I don't really care to allow any negativity to ruin that. I know that when L first told me to leave she wanted me to fight back and beg to stay but I'm sick of begging for basic love and care from people, so I accepted it because I didn't deserve the way she handled everything and I knew I needed to get out of a toxic situation for my own health.

So where does that leave me now? Well currently I’m stalling on writing a letter to L to maybe help band aid some of the crazy drama as I can’t leave the friendship we had be completely destroyed. I’m with M&M and I have been slowly moving stuff downtown to my new place with a really cool new roommate who is the complete opposite of L which truly excites me, shes super low maintenance and the house is close if not over 100 years old. Its also painted rainbow colors and in the heart of downtown. I see a new chapter and I’m so open and ready for it. I see new friends and new experiences, Maybe even some traveling? I do have my mind still set on going to Asheville but I’m not rushing that just yet. Ideally by the end of the year, but January is only just coming to a close so we still have some time there. Also I”m still so open to anywhere else time takes me. Asheville is just a place to help me remember not to stay in WS,

I also wouldn’t mind opening up the dating door more. It’s been open of course but I also know this move could make meeting people easier in a sense. There is a guy who I’ve discovered having quite a bit in common with and we have enjoyed talking to each other and when we finally met up things went pretty well, a little awkward because that’s just how I am, but well... Until L showed up and wouldn’t shut up and then also the whole kicking out happened and my communication with everyone kinda fell to even more shitty than it typically is.

I just know that I do kinda want someone, someone to do something but also nothing with, someone to cheer each other on, and travel about. I want a person but I also want a person that wants me. I am perfectly content in my own space and prefer it most of the time, but I do want to share existence with someone and I don’t close anyone off, and maybe my friend D isn’t that person (Even though we share a lot of the same goals, music, and views) but the thought excites me again, being wanted and cared for, especially being that I kinda know how to be wanted and cared for in a sense.

Before I wrap this up though I wanted to share final thoughts with an R update for myself. I sort of feel hypocritical with the way I speak of L and her relationship with Florida dude. Granted he is far more toxic than I feel R could ever be in my case but I put that on us having a genuine relationship at one point. I did reach out when I had hit a wall this week and no, I don’t regret it, I just needed a friend, someone who I felt didn’t think I was terrible and could provide a song or two to help pull me out of wanting to just throw in the towel and leave the state. Did he provide that? Eh, not really. I feel if he wanted to be there for me more he would have been. I gave conversation and he didn’t really give back, which is fine of course as he is perfectly allowed to not be in my life if he doesn’t care to be. I honestly felt the same when Lil pup was super sick. He could have been there, but he chose not to be.

I know that I always had this silly little thought that maybe someday it would be us but with each failed text conversation I see that image break and break along with every realization of his lack of want to keep me in his life in anyway. Of course its my own silly stupidity to think that we could ever be endgame or friends or even acquaintances, but its always so hard to let go of something you cherish so much. I know that people leave your life and you just have to let them, but maybe its that I always wanted someone to want me in this way so its hard to let go, which is almost funny because he never even had this kind of want for me. I don’t really want to let go but I know I have to for someone to want me in the way I want to be wanted and needed. I also know that I do think about him, our time and stupid ‘what ifs’ more than I should because again, I see no future there when the other half of this duo doesn’t either.

These thoughts will fade with time of course and when someone truly steps up to love me the way I deserve, to travel, cook, and do everything and nothing with me. To see how rare I am and appreciate having me around the way he didn’t. This person will fight to be in my life the way I fought for someone who doesn’t want me in there’s, except I will accept their love and make sure they know I want it so they won’t have to fight so hard.

I know I miss him, or more of who we were when we were on top of the world in the boring state of Florida. I don’t really remember that all anymore though and I will continue to remember less and less of the good, which sucks because it appears only the bad will continue to remain sadly with no good left in its wake. I tried. I really did. I had hoped we could see and be on top of the world at some point but I know that’s another silly thought. If I have learned anything from all the drama this past week it’s that you can’t make people care if they don’t want to.You’ll just hurt yourself trying. I’m just exhausted at this point.

So I hope he is happy. I really do. I hope he’s happy where he is at physically and mentally. I hope he is finally a lot more comfortable in his own skin, which I know everyday is different and I don’t think he will ever be perfectly happy within himself in that way but I hope he has more good days than bad. I hope he finally allows himself to love again, and I hope she is nice, pretty, and is good. No more fake toxic bitches, but he has a taste so... Who knows. Either way, I hope he will finally love himself enough to share his love, because I know he has fantastic love to give.

Two days later and this is finally written, at least most of it. I need to get more writing out but I better write L that letter before I talk myself out of it. I’m kind of over being the good adult here but thankfully her drama is over... For now at least. I’m scared to see what shit she will say back after. Also bitch took my avocado container and ice pack >.>

Alright but here we go 2020. The year of growing in the kitchen, traveling not just the US but also internationally, moving out of WS, learning to rock climb, maybe finding some love? No rush with that as it shouldn’t be, but I’m very open to it :)   BUT it’s the year of good. I’m still happy, positive, and here. It’ll be a good year!

[greenfleeze]

Whispers

Read on AO3

From the first moment Cassian met Jyn Erso, he knew she’d be nothing but trouble. The last thing he expected her to be was his distraction.

Cassian hadn’t been too fond of Jyn upon meeting her. Her so-so attitude about the rebellion and their fight against the Empire was frustrating. How could she not care about the state the galaxy had been in since the Empire began forcing their will on others? She, of all people, should have understood why it was important to fight back.

It seemed that, since she’d lost so much, she be better off looking after herself. Lucky woman. Cassian had never been given that chance. From the tender age of six, his family had been ripped away from him and the harsh cruelty of the real world had settled in.

After that, all he knew was training, learning to use guns, both long and short-range, assimilating in large groups of people while going unnoticed, sneaking into unauthorized places and stealing information for the rebellion.

Any innocence or childlike beliefs that Cassian may have had before were lost on him once he joined the rebellion. It was his home for lack of a better word, but deep inside of him, he could never truly let anyone in. Better to keep people at a distance and stay hard. That way, he’d never have to risk caring for someone only to lose them.

Kay, however, had been an unplanned coincidence. Cassian disabled the droid on a raid of an Imperial supply bunker when he was sixteen and he decided to keep him as a companion.

Droids didn’t judge you or give you the same kind of problems that human did. They were always simple, concise and to the point. There would never be any issue about emotion or any conflicts to arise over trifles.

Cold logic was what Cassian needed, what he preferred. And after he brought Kay back to the base and reprogrammed him, that was what he got - of course that didn’t stop the android from picking up some more human traits like sarcasm.

But it wasn’t bad. Cassian knew he could handle it. He could handle anything…that is, until Jyn Erso came into his life. She was frustrating, an enigma that he couldn’t decipher and he didn’t like it. He always wanted to know just what he was getting into before he got caught up in a maelstrom, but with Jyn, he wasn’t sure what expect.

When he let the woman, a known criminal, keep a blaster, it wasn’t because he liked her. Rather, the words she said to him resonated in a deep part of his heart that he believed had been long buried.

Trust goes both ways. 

He knew that she was right and there was no way he could argue with such a compelling statement. Although Jyn had likely stolen the blaster, he decided to place the tiniest bit of faith in her, for the rebellion, of course. It was bad enough that she was already taking up so much of his headspace, but it’d have done no good to have any antagonism between them.

Yet, as the mission progressed, Cassian found himself relating to Jyn because they we’re both no strangers to loss at a young age. They were alike in that respect.

Hell, he even admired her when she fought those storm trooper’s on Jedha. He expect end her to be a good fighter, but seeing her in action had been something else. There was a particular brutal grace in the way she fought and watching her sparked something inside of him that he couldn’t explain. It was…distracting, to say the least.

Cassian was a seasoned spy and intelligence officer. He always kept his cool under pressure no matter how bad the situation was and he did his job efficiently. Yet, for the first time in his life, he found himself running around in Saw’s hideout on Jedha, looking for a woman he barely knew, and in the wake of the Death Star’s destructive force.

In the back of his mind, he called himself a fool to search for the woman when he could have gotten out of there and saved his own skin first. He could just hear Kay’s voice too. “You’d have a ninety-two percent chance of getting yourself out alive if you don’t go after her, Cassian.”

Jyn’s presence on the mission could have cost him his own life, but he went after her anyway. Cassian tried not to understand what that meant. Even more so after Bodhi told them that they could find Galen on Eadu. Regardless of whether he shared a commonality with Jyn from what they’d lost, nothing could stop the fact that he was supposed to kill her father.

Even the message she’d seen played out for her before they left Jedha wasn’t enough to change anything. Cassian was still told to carry out his orders and kill Galen, but if he had to take the man’s life, wouldn’t he be just as bad as a soldier who worked for the Empire?

Jyn certainly seemed to think so after the events on Eadu and she told him as much. What’s worse, Cassian knew that she was right. Regardless of it being the Empire of the Rebel Alliance, both had taken something from Jyn in the most painful way possible. He may have not been the hand that pulled the trigger, but he was still linked to it nonetheless.

Like a storm trooper indeed.

When the alliance bombs destroyed the entire platform along with Galen, Cassian had felt a foreign sense of dread in his heart for Jyn. He had to drag her away from her father’s corpse or she’d have been killed herself.

As she cried, “I can’t leave him”, it was like a resounding echo of his past and Cassian remembered his own cries as a six year old when his uncle pulled him off his mother’s bloody, lifeless form in their home on Fest. Just when Cassian thought his heart could never break again, it did when he saw Jyn lying over her father.

He had absolutely no right to feel that way either, not after being an accomplice to Galen’s death, but he did and he loathed himself for it. His change of heart had come too late and now, Jyn had lost another person she loved. But instead of letting it destroy her, she pressed on, the loss making her realize that this is what happens when you don’t look up. People will make decisions for you.

Cassian had lost everything at the hands of the Empire and he fought back with every breath in his body. Losing had prompted him to act. Whereas, it had the opposite affect on Jyn. For her, losing prompted Jyn to run, to avoid caring about anyone other than herself, to just survive. Unfortunately, the price she paid for it was to be alone.

Now, she was invigorated. In the midst of a deep loss, Jyn found meaning and reason to fight.

When she went to the council with her father’s message about the Death Star, they turned away in fear and cowed in a way that was very much unlike a band of rebels. They let their fears guide them and force them into a corner.

Cassian had expected no less from them as he’d been a part of the alliance for many years. It made him a little sick that they weren’t willing to risk all or nothing by going to Scarif. After everything they had done and how far they’d come, they decided to settle.

For years, Cassian had done terrible things at the service of the alliance, unspeakable things he had to live with, things that he felt were stripping him bare of his soul. He may have worked for the rebellion, but his hands were by no means cleaner than any Imperial officer.

Every time he was sent on a mission, a dull sensation ebbed through him and he would tell himself that it was all for the cause, that all the horrors he witnessed, the terrible things he had to do would be worth it all in the end.

Then Jyn came into his life, catching him off guard and causing a conflict within him that no one else ever had before. It was like a long-dormant part of his soul had been awakened by her fire and resolve.

Their leaders hid behind doubt and fear, but not Jyn. She was prepared to risk everything on this mission and that was what several of the Rogue One crew picked up on. Some of them knew Jyn because many of them had been with Saw’s group years ago before he left her behind. They recognized the change in her and they all volunteered to go to Scarif.

They knew, as Cassian did, that if they sat on their haunches now, after years of fighting back, they wouldn’t be able to look at themselves in the mirror. If they didn’t take a stand now, what was the point of being a rebellion? Jyn had said it perfectly.

This is a rebellion, isn't it? I rebel.

It was time they started doing what they were named for.

Now they passed the shield gate and were entering Scarif’s atmosphere. Cassian let out a deep breath he hadn’t known he’d been holding in.

“This is probably a suicide mission.”

Cassian looked at the young woman standing next to him. After her speech to the other rebels, she followed him to the back end of the cockpit.

“Maybe so, but if we aren’t prepared to risk everything, how dedicated can we really say we are?”

Jyn touched his arm gently and her lips slowly curved upwards into a small smile. “Wise words.”

“I’m just taking a few points from your book,” he replied gently.

Her green eyes gazed up him at in silence and he felt a clench at his heart. Would this be the last time he’d look at her face? This woman, who’d been a thorn in his side for a brief moment, but suddenly inspired him to be bold in a way he hadn’t been in years. She surprised him ways he never expected and that thrilled him, even made him proud.

“Jyn, if we don’t make it out…I just want you too know that it’s been an honor fighting alongside you.”

“And I feel the same way.” Her hand slipped into his and she stood on her tip toes to kiss his cheek. It was a brief kiss, but the glimmer in her eyes told him what he needed to know.

When she pulled back, Cassian brushed a strand of hair from her eyes and pressed his lips to hers, urgently. The kiss was full of need, desire, bittersweetness and hope. Jyn melted into his arms as she gripped his shoulders with her hands, desperate to touch him.

They held on tightly to each other, neither wanting to let go for anything. There was so much they both wanted to say, but they couldn’t find the words. So instead, Cassian held onto Jyn, holding her to him, his hand cradling the back of her neck.

Minutes passed as they stood there, in the corner, wrapped in a warm embrace. The silence was comfortable and a small sign that they had time together, if only for this moment alone.

Jyn mumbled something under her breath and Cassian peered down at her, holding her chin up with his hand. “What did you say?”

“I said if we do make it through this, you owe me a date.”

A surprised chuckle left his lips and he stroked her cheek. “It’s been a long time since I’ve been on one.”

She grinned ruefully. “Never for me.”

“Then it’s settled. I’ll have to survive this so you can experience a night out.”

“I look forward to it,” came her playful reply. Then a serious expression appeared on her face and she licked her lips. “Cassian…about what I said to you after Eadu, I was angry and I can’t apologise for that, but you were right. You didn’t pull the trigger and even though my father still died, I…I’m glad that you proved me wrong.”

Cassian’s features softened and he idly rubbed her knuckles with his thumb. “It was your father’s words to Bodhi that made me realise I couldn’t do it. For the first time in a long time, I listened to my heart instead of my head and went against what I’ve always known. I couldn’t have done that to you, Jyn and I’m so sorry for what happened.”

Jyn shook her head. “Don’t blame yourself for that. I forgive you and I’ve let it go now. You’re not like a storm trooper. You’re a good man and after all of this is over, I hope I get the chance to get to know you better.”

“And I, you, Jyn.”

The familiar shaking of the ship let them know that they’d finally touched down on the base. Kay’s voice came from the pilot’s seat in the cockpit. “It won’t be long before they send a greeting party. We should get into position.”

“Alright,” Cassian replied and he looked down at the young woman standing before him. He gently kissed her forehead. “Ready?”

Jyn squeezed his hand, giving him a firm nod. “Yeah. Let’s give them hell.”