#bc people assume you're a woman or a man or nonbinary

[cistematicchaos]

you saying you were genderfuck reminded me of my genderfuck dyke flag so. dyke genderfuckery be upon ye https://www.tumblr.com/mogai-sunflowers/710624223834587137/genderfuck-dyke-flag?source=share

(i do plan on making a less eyestrainy version of that one is too tough)

oh my g-d??? I love this! I've never seen a genderfuck flag before, much less a dyke genderfuck flag, this' so cool! Thank you for sharing it!

[nothorses]

This isn't intended to be confrontational, because I know your intentions were good, but your note that you know nb they/thems don't have it easier and it's about "your experiences only" feels a little hollow when your original post specifically contrasts your experiences with the experiences of nb they/thems. If that makes sense. If you'd said "I make cis progressive women uncomfortable by being a visibly masc transitioned binary trans man" that's your experience. But when you say "I make cis progressive women uncomfortable by being a visibly masc transitioned binary trans man and not a nb they/them" it does leave room for interpretation about what you're implying about the experiences of nb they/thems. I understand what people mean when they say "cis women are more accepting of nb they/thems because they can lump them in with women" but the fact is that unless the nb they/them in question also ids with womanhood, being lumped in with women IS misgendering. Being lumped in with women isn't a benefit when you're not a woman. There is a massive issue with the demonization of masculinity and manhood in queer circles, yes, but there is ALSO an issue of people lumping in anyone who isn't a man with women ("nonmen"). And it doesn't become less misgendering to be lumped in with women even if you're an nb and not a binary man. When people make the assumption that it's less "serious" for cis women to lump in nb they/thems with women, they're basically also lumping in nb they/thems with women by assuming we're less harmed by being misgendered as a woman than trans men are harmed by being gendered as a woman. I'm not a woman, woman-centric feminism doesn't solve all my issues, and denying the ways I'm different from women harms me. The way people assume being an nb they/them must be easier bc cis women "accept" us feels very similar to the way baeddels assume transmascs have it easier bc cis women "accept" us. Like they just took "cis women view trans men as uwu pure widdle babies to be infantilized rather than as predatory men to be attacked the way they view trans women" and turned it into "cis women view nb they/thems as uwu pure babies to be infantilized rather than as predatory men to be attacked the way they view binary trans men." Again, I know you don't personally believe "nb they/thems have it easier," and I DO believe you that cis progressive women in your life have started treating you worse the more visibly masculine/visibly transitioned you've become (I'm not gonna be like "no your experience must not be true just bc it's not the same as my experience >:(), but that post was just a nudge for me to talk on a certain rhetoric I've seen frequently recently.

this is kind of the thing I was trying to avoid with that tag tbh, and I think I worded it poorly; honestly, it was a tag I added because I remembered having A Stray Thought when I wrote the first post, remembered that I didn't add something I considered adding but not why or what it was, and didn't think super hard about in that moment. I kind of wonder if it would have been better to leave the tag off entirely.

I don't think it's easier for nonbinary folks to be "easier to lump in with women". I think it's more uncomfortable for cis women when they can't lump trans men (or other trans people who were AFAB) in with women. their comfort with lumping nonbinary people in with women does not translate to comfort for said nonbinary people, and I was kind of hoping to avoid people assuming that I was implying as much just bc I didn't go out of my way to clarify otherwise.

[spacelazarwolf]

I think maybe the example given is whats confusing/upsetting people?

I mean yes visibly gnc and trans have very different and often more dangerous experiences! I agree with all of your points and I think its something that needs to be talked about.

But I also can see why people aren't vibing with it? I had to read a few times to get it. The example kind of implies that there are no reasons that a cis-passing afab nonbinary person would want to go to a trans-friendly place besides them feeling more oppressed than they actually are. But like maybe they just want to help support those places, or be around inclusive people, or maybe they're wanting a more gnc haircut and they think that place would be good to get it (to use the haircut example). It just comes off a bit like they're saying the only valid reason to go to trans-friendly business is if you're in danger of violence? And idk like the other person said how do you know just from a photo what that person is thinking/feeling?

Though again this is something that should be discussed and people are ignoring the overall message bc their focusing on the one part which is another issue.

I know the op was frustrated and maybe the wording just isnt the best for what they actually mean, and ik that like they're talking abt a very specific type of person/situation. And also i dont think imperfect language should automatically discount a topic from conversation. Just wanted to share why I think people are getting upset, but I dont wanna like derail the post bc maybe im just overthinking it

nah i get it. i was hesitant to reblog the post at first as well, but i think they bring up a very good point about like. less visibly marginalized demographics of white trans people trying to center themselves in discussions about transphobia that they don’t have experience with. it’s hard to talk abt bc some ppl are so quick to go “and therefore fuck theyfabs they aren’t really oppressed!!!!!!!” bc that’s bullshit. but it grinds my gears every time a thin white femme presenting nonbinary person who lives in like seattle tells me i’m privileged for being a man and couldn’t possibly understand the pain of *checks notes* being misgendered and having people assume you’re a woman when you’re not. (as if that isn’t something i literally still deal with????)

[trans-cuchulainn]

i keep having dreams about being trans. i had one a couple of nights ago that involved having to go to court about an unrelated issue but a major cause of stress was the fact that my paperwork all listed me as female but dream me had been on T long enough that this was likely to cause problems (inc people accusing me of pretending to be a woman so if I went to prison it would be a womens prison even though nobody was expecting me to go to prison). and i was having to repeatedly explain to people in the dream that i literally could not update my paperwork because there is no legal acknowledgement of nonbinary people in this country, it didn't matter whether I wanted to or not, it was simply not possible even if i did, etc. and they were like 'but surely you want a GRC if you're actually trans' and i was like. well. no. but also the point is i couldn't get one even if i did !!!

and then in last night's dream i was talking to another trans person about my unwanted facial hair, which was much more copious in the dream than in reality, and they were helping me to shave it, and somebody saw us and assumed i was a trans woman shaving to pass and was banging on about this deception, which was wild bc it meant they'd been calling me he/him as an attempt to misgender me but they'd got the wrong end of the stick. anyway something came up like 'why would you need period supplies' or something like that, idr what but it was something gendered, and dream me yelled 'because I'm a trans man you nitwit'. and then had to explain what that meant to a kid who had got the words muddled around. but the whole time dream me was internally going 'except I'm not, am I?'

and yes dream me did specifically call them a nitwit. i wasn't allowed to swear in this specific environment. there were children there

anyway i think i'm experiencing some Gender Anxiety

it's also really stupid anxiety because i spend a lot of time going "shit i must be wrong and i'm not a trans guy after all" and then three seconds later i go "well duh i never said i was a trans guy in the first place, that's literally what being nonbinary means". like my gender might be none gender left boy but somehow I kept forgetting the none gender part and focusing on the left boy and wondering why that didn't feel right. like no shit buddy that's not your fucking gender 🤦🏻

[dogfags]

i think my life would be better if I didn't mind they/them being used on me but it quite honestly feels like an insult sometimes when people assume those are my pronouns or they think I look weird and androgynous so they default to those. I know I am weird and androgynous but it's just annoying to have to be like no I'm just.. a man. when I have put so much effort into passing and going stealth. and for sure even tho I'm just a man I have some weird nonbinary feelings as well. bc I'm trans and being "binary trans" doesn't mean u don't have a complicated relationship with gender or experience a bit of gender queerness. I mean I identified and lived as a lesbian for several years of my life so ofc a part of that is ingrained in me. idk, I kind of wish more people would look at gender as something you do rather than something you innately are. I don't think I innately am anything. I think I used to live as a girl and now I live as a man. maybe that makes me nonbinary or maybe that just makes me a normal person. idk. a lot of the trans narratives that have been popularized by the media are just so unrelatable to me I almost don't consider myself the same thing as them. I don't think I transitioned bc I was a boy born into a girl's body I think I transitioned bc I'd just rather live as a man and so I am. of course I also have debilitating dysphoria but yk. I don't think I was "born this way" and I didn't show any signs as a child or even give my gender a second thought until I was older. I got a taste of female puberty and was like nah I'd rather opt out of this whole woman thing. so I did. and now I'm a man. it's that simple to me idk.

but yeah if I liked he/they I think it would make my life better bc then I wouldn't be like. dysphoric and offended when ppl would default to they for me simply bc I have green hair. I don't even dress femininely almost ever it's just the hair I think lmao. or bc my name is gender neutral. I guess I am androgynous in the face also. I do not have a chiseled jawline although I do have a mustache and it is pretty dark now. idkkkkk man

I've lived so many lives already in just this one that idk how to classify myself anymore. I've been every letter of the LGBT and dated/fucked someone of every gender and sexuality lmao. but I still think it's kinda annoying when ppl deny my masculinity or maleness upon seeing me and default to they/them when I Try So Hard to pass. obviously it's not their fault, they've been told it's rude to assume anyone's pronouns and I am fully self aware of the way I look and come off. I almost feel like I can't even correct people when they call me they bc I know they're just trying to be.. nice or something. like how would I even go about correcting that, "thanks for the consideration but I am in fact just a man" ???

I think in terms of gender identity I can get behind the vibes of he/they being used for me in theory, but in practice it makes me feel like a freak. it's like a glaring neon sign that's like, you look WEIRD and idk what you are bc you're WEIRD. I know this shit wouldn't happen if I was cis and presented exactly the same as I do now. I feel extremely vulnerable and almost outed when people call me they. like it tells everyone in the room that I'm Different. and despite the fact I dye my hair crazy colors and have 7 facial piercings and stretched ears I actually do not want to stick out. I just love the alternative look. but I don't want attention drawn to me. I don't want people to look at or talk to me. it's a struggle I've had my entire life. id much rather blend in than stand out but literally everybody knows who I am and my name bc I just have an appearance that is so jarring. ugh.

I even had my instructor for some reason "correct" himself on my pronouns, he literally got it right the first time then went "er, they-" like ??? come on man. when have I ever told anyone I want to go by they here??? is the mustache not enough?? do I have to grow out my patchy ass stubble as well??? for a split second sometimes I think about going by he/they and then I am called they in real life and cringe so hard. rahhh.

[talisidekick]

Damn apparently ppl think im not a transguy bc i have different views of sex and gender.

wowww. how surprising/sar

Anyways, yeah im a gay trans dude. Im sorry my views are different but thar doesn't allow ppl to be dicks about it.

we disagree, thats okay. We're adults, i still say we fight for trans rights.

I hope your transition goes well

I dislike that people are so quick to assume you're not who you say you are, but I can see why. You use terminology exclusively used to separate transgender women and men and nonbinary folk from womanhood, manhood, femininity, and masculinity. It's used by "gender critical", "radical feminist" and "TERF" groups exclusively to deny peoples gender identity. It's not uncommon for members of these groups to impersonate a transgender person or put on a facade as a transgender person to fabricate evidence for their cause or cause problems for others on purpose.

I won't say your views are entirely incorrect, but I will definitively say you have a tinted lens you're looking through. Take a look at how others engage in masculinity, the language they use, and how people try to oppress them. You might learn something, and heck, you might come back and correct me on a few things. I'm a transgender woman, I'm not living the experiences of someone who's trans masculine or a transgender man; there's going to be aspects I just won't get unless you can explain it to me like I'm five because my own lens of observation is tinted a certain way too.

Sure we don't agree, but that can simply be a matter of knowledge and experience difference, even age. It's possible the language I use and the language you use carry different connotations depending on our respective time-frames of contact with these words and we're communicating similar ideas just with different terms. The field of science around gender identity has taken a massive leap forward over the years. And it can also be frame of reference, whether our learning environment has a conservative or liberal leaning and that in turn will change the kind of information we have access to to educate ourselves. It's kind of important to look at everything, even the stuff we don't agree with, so we can educate ourselves not only on the perceptions we face, but why we disagree and what the cold facts are.

The end point however, yeah, we're both transgender, and there's a lot of varied transgender folk like us. We're all under threat, our enemies want nothing but our complete annihilation to support their binary gender, sex = gender fallacy fueled patriarchal fantasy where everyone is straight, and ideally as white as possible. Recognizing their bullshit arguments and taking them down is the goal because transgender rights are human rights. None of us are free until all of us are.

[campirefangs]

If your blog says 'men DNI' don't interact with me as I am a trans man and you're breaking your own DNI !

DO NOT INTERACT ! 🩸 MINORS! I do not consent with anyone under the age of 18 interacting with me in any way. For this reason, if you do not have your age easily visible I will assume that you are too young to follow me and I will block you. Protecting children comes before your feelings. Put your age in your bio/pinned. 🦇 If you think i am a girl because I haven't had top surgery and i cant wear binders due to my disability. I'm not a girl or a woman. 🩸 Racists (raceplay or anti-BLM stfu) 🦇 N@zis/sympathizers (if you defend fel!x c!pher go to hell) 🩸 M@PS (die!), p3dos (die!), sympathizers/apologists (die!) 🦇 Trump supporters, anti-sexworkers, misogynists, anti-feministis, pro-lifers, general bigots (homophobes, transphobes, etc.) 🩸 Cishet people into s!ssy & m!sgendering (trans people ily you can do whatever you want) 🦇 fe3derism, th!nspo, pro@na, proED (im recovering from an ED. If you trigger me i block easily in regards to this subject for my own safety.) 🩸 If you're attracted to me, it makes you gay. Just so you know.

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[nyehilismwriting]

How does everyone view their own gender? What are their ✨feelings✨ towards themselves (and maybe about how the world views them) on that matter? Like, we know that Rhaxa doesn't really fit on the whole human gender spectrum and just uses they/them for convenience, but what about everyone else?? Has Leanna or Ki-ha ever questioned their own gender?? Spill the teaaa 😔✋

ough okay. got long and rambly so putting individual character breakdowns below the cut <3

as a rule, i think the hadea world falls somewhere between contemporary western society and an idealised future in terms of gender roles, misogyny, and transphobia. while nonbinary and trans identities are far more widely accepted and normalised as a whole, it’s a strongly wealth-driven society, which results in a fair amount of rainbow capitalism - nash and the commander, for example, are highly successful, well-regarded nonbinary people at the top of their fields in paramilitary espionage. the director is a powerful, driven, successful woman who orders corporate assassinations on a regular basis. it’s a combination of much wider personal freedom, with more limited medical access and a general idea that any group of people can be exploited for profit, regardless of their identity.

so rhaxa doesn't care, lmao. if i had to use contemporary terminology i'd describe them as agender - this doesn't 100% apply since it still assumes an opposition to other genders/an existing binary, which isn't something the aliens have. even within alien society, though, rhaxa's never had to put much thought into their role or position, which is part of the reason they're so relaxed about pronouns and the identities people might be projecting onto them. they're very confident in themself, and gender doesn't play any role in their identity so it's all just. 🤷‍♀️

i've talked a bit about imxa's particular pronoun use in this post - obviously, this is based on some not entirely accurate preconceptions about human ideas of gender, and missing some nuance about misogyny and such, but those aren't things imxa has much of a clue about. people tend not to try to be misogynistic towards you when you're a giant scary bug, strangely enough.

nash is... nonbinary. ik this is kind of a null statement but that's how they see themself: they're not transmasc or transfemme, they're just. themself. which I think is part of the reason they started identifying that way, and have done for a long time; they’re very firmly in the “i just work here” camp, with a side of “whose business is it anyway”.

with rohan, i kind of oscillate a bit; xe’s always pretty femme regardless of the pronouns you choose for xem, but i think xir gender is always a bit more of a Presentation. whatever it is xe’s doing - whether it’s leaning into hyperfeminity or gnc-ness, it’s always a bit of a performance. i tend to think of xem as a little more fluid than the others, and that’s definitely in part bc xe’s gender-selectable, but i think that there’s an element of using it as armour there, too; xe’s obviously got a lot of Stuff going on (got a ‘send rohan to therapy’ anon literally as i typed this answer) and the more layers xe can put between xemself and the outside world, the better. i also have a lot of thoughts about the gender-selection mechanic: i’m not fully decided whether i’m happy with the choice to describe xem as a man/woman/person as a way of deciding xir pronouns, and that’s something i might edit at some point, cause i do think regardless of what you choose, xe’s up to some shit, there. even if you choose she/her pronouns and end up with a feminine woman, there’s a lot of performance around that choice; it’s not a subconscious decision on xir part, it’s always very deliberate. at least in part, it’s a way of making xemself seem nonthreatening, both physically and socially.

leanna’s always been pretty settled into her identity as a cis woman; she’s a lesbian, which is a big part of how she IDs, but i think she’s spent most of her life in various lgbt circles. she approaches it from a fairly pragmatic perspective; she’s a cis woman, not because it’s the default or the ‘assumed’ gender for her, but because she’s decided that’s what suits her.

ki-ha...he’s a very private person. he has thought about it a lot, done the gender questioning thing, but i do have relevant stuff planned for him ingame so i’m gonna 🤐 same with skylar - i have a lot of thoughts for my lil guy that have yet to resolve into a solid plan. i just have to sit very still and not look at them directly until they come to me.

[valdrift]

i dont think you're wrong, but maybe just misunderstanding. hear me out, please. i think transmascs & nonbinary ppl & all kinds of genderqueer people have a bigger place in lesbian history than most ppl think, and having the opinion on how "men can't be lesbians" is about an issue that is not an actual issue-- there are no cis men who are (genuinely) claiming to be lesbians, so this is pretty much a trans-only issue. please think about that. it's just... it's like claiming drag queens can't be gay because they use she/her & present as fem. not only is drag so ingrained in gay culture that it would be ridiculous to say that, but it is also a space that lots of transfems feel comfortable to identify as a woman while still being gay. i don't think it's fair to pick & choose who can identify as a lesbian when transmascs and masc-presenting people have been so present in lesbian culture since the beginning.

when someone says mspec lesbian, i assume they mean a lesbian who ids as a binary man or smth. is tht not what it means? bc im aware tht nonbinary ppl and mascs have a place in the lesbian community, i myself am a transmasc lesbian. im just saying why wld someone who identifies with being a Man or manhood, Not masculinity, call themselves a lesbian. also if someone is attracted to men, why wld they use a term tht is exclusive of men?

[70slesbian]

i agree so much with your post about how ppl just assume non-feminine women to be nonbinary...i feel like people try to be all woke and stuff but it just comes across as like, paradoxically regressive. i was once talking to my very feminine female friends about how alienated i felt from like, femininity and gender expectations and then one of them went like 'are you trying to tell us that you're nb' and i felt lowkey offended? not bc being assumed to be nb is a bad thing but like, just because i hate that as a woman i'm expected to shave and wear makeup and dresses doesn't mean i'm not a woman like??? we're really just going in circles back to the initial 'if you're not feminine then you're not a woman' and people think they're progressive smh

yes!! it’s like why are we narrowing what a woman can be like again?? i thought we were moving away from that. i hate how the binary suddenly is feminine woman - non-binary - masculine man, like gender is a lot more than that and to assume that every single woman who’s a little gnc is simply Not A Woman is so regressive. im sorry you’ve had that experience!! you are so correct abt ur analysis, being nb or being assumed nb is not a bad thing but why is it a knee jerk reaction when a woman doesn’t shave or wear makeup

[metapianycist]

i signed up on the hystersisters forum but almost immediately regretted it.

i am not here to dunk on the forum or shut it down or to call for any action against it. they have a ton of really helpful articles and videos and i really like the threads where you can read the recovery progress of other people who had their hysterectomy the same week as you.

I'm putting my grievances under a cut bc i don't want anyone to read this and think i want the forum to suffer or stop existing. i don't, and i recognize that my hysterectomy experience being for gender affirmation is very different from that of someone who's being treated for gynecologic illness. i don't think the forum needs to offer specific resources on gender-affirming or elective hysterectomy if they want to primarily serve people whose hysterectomies were for treatment of illnesses. i just hope that someday the forum rules and administration become less actively hostile to lgbtq people.

the signup makes you check a box basically swearing that you're a cis woman, and a rule is that usernames cannot reference having children, being a mom, or ones "lifestyle." (this also extends to all threads on the forum.) it took me the longest time to think of a username because i didn’t realize that by lifestyle they meant that usernames can't reference being something other than a heterosexual cis woman, not that usernames can't reference hobbies. so they explicitly do not permit users to reveal being gay, bi/pan, trans or nonbinary.

I'm fairly certain that mentioning having a wife/girlfriend or trans husband/boyfriend or a nonbinary partner would get your post removed even if the poster was a cis woman talking about how she and her wife or her straight man husband/boyfriend are both hysterectomy patients.

the optional survey where you describe your hysterectomy also didn't have any option for specifying that your hysterectomy was elective or because you for whatever reason just didn't want to have a uterus anymore?? i know it's very difficult for young nondisabled cis women to get hysterectomies if it's not to treat an illness and they've never had kids but sometimes they find supportive surgeons?? and those people still deserve support??

i didn't answer the question asking if i took supplemental testosterone for libido because the "no" answer implied not taking T at all.

im sure that most of the regular users would not have any problems with trans and nonbinary people who got hysterectomies using the forum, especially because it's not rare for trans and nonbinary people to have endometriosis or fibroids or illnesses that make it really unpleasant to continue having a uterus. and there are trans and nonbinary people who've had hysterectomies to treat life-threatening illnesses and didn't want to, who go through the same grief that many cis women have about the resulting infertility!! im sure that regular forum users would have no trouble offering support to them!

but hystersisters is absolutely set up in a way that is extremely unwelcoming to anyone who isn't a straight cis woman, by having a heavily enforced rule that you can't talk about having children, being a mom, or having an "alternative lifestyle" like not wanting people to assume you're a straight cis woman who has or would like a straight cis boyfriend/husband.

*shakes head in trans*

[dysphoric-culture-is]

dysphoric (did I spell it right?) culture is trying to learn as many things as possible about lgbtq+/queer people so that one can understand what gender they are/arent but sometimes getting so confused/tired of trying understand that the only thing that can be made out is that one doesn’t feel the gender assigned at birth? maybe it isn’t but I- just had this in mind, sorry.

I hope mod is having a great day and taking care of oneself! (is “oneself” okay?? I apologise if it isn’t, I literally just found out about nullpronominal! (is this the right name for those people? DAMNIT MY MEMORY SUCKS IM SORRY))

Dysphoric culture is!

Yes, you spelled that right. The phrasing of this ask is somewhat confusing but assuming that you're using one/ones instead of I/me it's about questioning your gender?

In which case: mod suggests continuing to learn about trans identities and talking to trans people about their experiences (if possible). Questioning can be a difficult process but

Alternately, you're using one/ones instead of they/them and the ask is about struggling to understand trans identities??

In which case: transgender just means you aren't entirely, exclusively, or always your AGAB (assigned gender at birth).

Further explanation and brief discussion of mod's lack of pronouns is below the cut-

Some people have multiple genders and sometimes one of their genders is their AGAB. This is why the 'exclusively' is in the defintion.

Other people may shift between being different genders (called genderfluid) and sometimes one of the genders they shift between/to is their AGAB. This is why the 'always' is in the defintion.

Others are only partially a gender (called demigender), and that gender may be their AGAB. This a way the 'entirely' is in the definition.

Multigender, genderfluid, and demigender people can all call themselves trans. However most trans people are only one gender and never their AGAB.

Trans people can be in the gender binary (man/woman) or not (nonbinary). Trans woman means someone is AMAB (assigned male at birth) but is a woman, and trans man means someone is AFAB (assigned female at birth) but is a man.

Nonbinary is a very wide term encompassing all genders that aren't exclusively, entirely, or always man/woman. Nonbinary people are usually just 'neither man nor woman' but can also be both or it can be more complicated than that. Most nonbinary people call themselves trans but not all do and the label shouldn't be forced on anyone.

If you already knew this but just have a hard time remembering, try making flashcards or a small 'cheat sheet'/study guide for yourself.

If you find this explanation confusing, try finding simple online resources. Most resources aimed at very old or very young people are usually the easiest to understand.

Good luck with whatever this ask was about anon!

Also note that mod doesn't like one/ones pronouns (bc they're still pronouns) but isn't mad. You got the term nullpronomial right though. An alternate way to phrase your sentence to avoid pronouns would have been "I hope mod is having a great day and practicing self-care".

[tmitransitioning]

Hey so I'm getting kind of freaked out by the discourse around detransitioning. I'm 100% positive for those who decide to detransition but I'm transmasc and it feels like so many of those folks are anti-trans and I've been attacked by people saying that because gender is a social construct, being trans just means you're unhappy with your assigned gender role and ur actually a butch woman but like... I really do believe I'm trans. But what if it's just internalized misogyny? Idk what to do

Ah yes, “detransition discourse”, or “trans people are ruining their lives by being trans” in a vaguely progressive hat.

The reasons for detransitioning are often more complex and varied than this discourse implies. While there are some people who transition socially and/or medically and then realize that they do completely identify as the gender they were assigned at birth and regret transitioning, this is really... not as common as some people assume.

Sometimes people realize that they do identify more as their assigned at birth gender but they still really prefer how they look and feel on HRT/with surgical modifications.

Sometimes people took steps to be read as the “opposite” gender for social reasons (such as employment, medical access, etc.) and then later no longer took those steps, due to personal preference or medical or financial or some other reason. However, they have identified as nonbinary the entire time, regardless of how other people have chosen to gender them.

Sometimes people need to go back to presenting as their assigned at birth gender for a while for their own safety.

Sometimes people have doubts inflicted on them by the persistent voices of close connections and the world at large who say they’re just faking, and they discontinue medical and social transition for a while before realizing no, wait, they are actually trans and other people are assholes.

These are ALL situations based on people that I know. So. Yanno. There’s a lot more going on with detransition than “woman thinks she’s a man bc internalized misogyny and then regrets ever going on Testosterone, Which Is Poison.”

Gender IS  a social construct. And we live in a society. And we’re a social species. People don’t stop needing money to survive in capitalism because money is a social construct. Racism isn’t solved by people going “wait, guys!! Race is a social construct!!” “It’s a social construct” does not mean “it has no influence on material reality.” It just means that it’s not necessarily rooted in material reality, as in, there is no gender gene that we can point to and say “here it is, here’s the little fucker that made me feel like human gender doesn’t apply to me and I’d rather be a featureless sphere”.

Funny enough, a lot of the people who use “gender is a social construct” sure are heavily invested in the most widely accepted construction of gender, where there are men and women and everyone’s biology and behavior is strictly divisible along that binary.

People are going to try to make you not be trans because they’re assholes and have their own shit to work out. Sometimes they’ll dress it up in gender studies soundbites and feel really smug and self-righteous about it. But what matters is you. What matters is how you feel.

You’re never going to get a signed certificate from your True Innermost Self that says “you are definitely this gender!” What you have to do is work out what you need and how to get there.

I can honestly assure you that it is not at all common to react to the limitations of gender roles by saying “I’ll just transition then.” What people want when they feel constrained by gender roles is to be allowed to be the person that they are without being hemmed in by societal expectations based on gender, not to be perceived as a different gender. If you are experiencing discomfort with the gender that people perceive you as itself, not only with the associated expectations, then it’s not internalized misogyny.

Would you feel more comfortable being known as [insert gender here]? Do you want to modify your body, through medical or other means? Do you want to change your name, your pronouns, anything else? Do those things. If what you want changes later, do what you want then. You can’t live your life in anticipation of maybe changing your mind, nor can you live your life as if really loud people with bad opinions and an excess of investment in other people’s choices know better about what you need than you do.

I believe you. It’s okay to be nervous and second-guess. But I believe you, and I think you believe you, too.

- Mod Rabbit

[theclaravoyant]

hey clara! i'm writing a fic in which 13 meets some former companions, and i'm not sure how to write a non-awkward way to ask for pronouns. do you have any tips? also, if you don't mind sharing, what are your hc's on the doctor's gender identity? i'm asking bc you're the only person i know who's put some Thought into gender/pronouns. also bc you've said before that people are welcome to ask you about this. this isn't really about questioning (sorry about that) but i'd love to hear your thoughts!

YAY I love sharing :D

First of all, how I tend to write about the Doctor is that I tend to use “them” when referring to their whole self/whole life, but “he” or “she” when speaking about the specific regenerations that use those pronouns in canon. I just find it easier to capture that way. I am not sure how the Doctor would see themselves, but Thirteen does seem happy to refer to herself as a woman and be addressed with she/her etc, so that’s a good start.

In terms of gender identity, I like the idea that the Doctor is nonbinary, and to be honest, they probably wouldn’t mind any pronouns. Pronouns don’t always reflect a specific gender, but the Doctor has expressed on a few occasions that Timelords have surpassed gender and things like that, which indicates they may not feel particularly validated and/or invalidated by certain perceived genders or pronouns. We also don’t know how pronouns work(ed) on Gallifrey and given that many Timelords have turned out to be able to change gender presentation, maybe they have a very different pronoun system. Anyway, as far as the Doctor’s gender experience in canon is concerned, I would tweak this a little to say that the specific type of nonbinary identity the Doctor experiences may be something like being genderfluid - this captures the fact that their gender actually changes between male and female (and potentially nonbinary genders as well) and back again, rather than being “a man” and then “a woman” or a “coming out (binary) trans” sort of situation. This may be reflected in which pronouns they prefer at any given time.

As far as asking for pronouns goes, there probably isn’t a way to do it that won’t feel a bit awkward, because it’s not something that we are used to asking each other, but throwing some ideas out there… I wrote a few down before I came to this conclusion, but I think the best way to keep it simple is pronoun coding. (I think that’s what it’s called?)

This means, having somebody introduce Thirteen, using whichever pronouns you choose for her or a descriptor that indicates which pronouns she would prefer. For example, when introducing someone who uses they/them pronouns irl, you might set it up like “This is Alex. They are new to this school, could you show them around?” or “This is Taylor. They are going to help with the X project, I’m sure their expertise will be very valuable.” Maybe one of Thirteen’s companions, if they’re around, could refer to the Doctor with she/her pronouns - they don’t even have to be deliberately introductory. It could be like “You know the Doctor? She’s a handful, isn’t she?” Boom, pronouns coded.(PS - One way to show more strongly that it’s been deliberately coded, rather than just that everyone’s assuming boobs = she/her pronouns, would be to show the other characters’ response as if they were not sure what/how to speak about the Doctor and now feel more comfortable going forward)

That said I have a LOT of other ideas which could also work, depending on what situation the characters are in and how involved you want the pronoun conversation to get. I’ll put those below a cut as it’s getting long -

Just have them start referring to Thirteen as “she/her”. It’s a little reductive, but not unreasonable that they would just kind of go “well obviously the Doctor is a woman now so she/her pronouns”. It’s also pretty quick, so that’s handy if you don’t want to turn it into A Thing. It’s an alien situation, so a “just roll with it” “it’s not the weirdest thing that’s ever happened” approach can still work here where it wouldn’t so much work with an actual trans or nonbinary human or human character.

If you want to be a little more nuanced about it, have the old companions / people unfamiliar with Thirteen automatically start using she/her and then later, check themselves, either directly to Thirteen or to Thirteen’s companions if they’re around. The unfamiliar people could be like “wait, should I be doing that?” even though it still works as their natural first response because of how we’re used to talking about and assuming gender. This is still fairly quick to clear up if you want it to be, but it can become more involved too. It also gives you some flexibility if The Pronoun Conversation doesn’t work at the beginning of the story or when the characters meet, but there’s a moment later on that it could fit better.

Or, on a completely different note, you could introduce them in an environment where people are already asking for pronouns, eg a deliberately trans inclusive environment or some alien version of that which results in the characters trying to figure out pronouns. Maybe the Doctor has to recalibrate the Tardis translator for a culture that doesn’t have pronouns or uses them very differently to us. This may be a bit too involved for what you’re after but anyway…

A less involved version of this may be if they’re on a world or in a situation where a cultural ritual or computer simulation or something asks them some establishing information. Maybe they have to pick a doorway, maybe it’s printing them ID cards or doing some kind of security scan, maybe it’s a hospitality robot, etc etc. and it just asks some basic things like name, species, gender and/or pronouns. Maybe they even have some kind of pronoun badge equivalent happening and all Thirteen has to do is pick one (or grab a handful of them, I can imagine her with like 3-5 badges fighting for space on her lapel!). This is a bit more flexible because it could be just a quick event or you could spin it into more of something if the Doctor decides to investigate their feelings about the answer to that question or something like that.

In a less alien situation, maybe one of the companions tries to be a Good Ally when they find out about the similar-to-trans experience the Doctor has, and goes along the lines of “you’re supposed to ask about pronouns right? that’s a thing?” The Doctor may even be curious/excited about this as they may not have thought much about it before, but again it depends how much time you want to spend on it.

Pronoun Coding. (I think that’s what it’s called? I forget). This means, having somebody introduce Thirteen, using whichever pronouns you choose for her or a descriptor that indicates which pronouns she would prefer. For example, when introducing people who use they/them pronouns, you might set it up like “This is Alex. They are new to this school” or “This is Taylor. They are going to help with the X project”. Maybe one of Thirteen’s companions, if they’re around, could refer to the Doctor with she/her pronouns - they don’t even have to be deliberately introductory. It could be like “You know the Doctor? She’s a handful, isn’t she?” Boom, pronouns coded.

Have someone guess. This is similar to pronoun coding but funnier. It could provide a great opportunity for some physical comedy as Thirteen would just be running around doing her thing while the others are like “would ssssssshhee?” *glances at 13′s companions* *13′s companions nod* “like something to eat/some help/etc?”

Have Thirteen refer to herself in third person, so she pronoun codes herself. This doesn’t always work unless you establish it as a character thing (like Terry from Brooklyn 99) but there are some sayings and things you could use as a throwaway line to pull this off eg “a woman’s gotta do what she’s gotta do” or something like that. Or she could be having one of those bitter little “I really hate how I get treated now that I’m a woman” rants and work that in like, “just because she [such-and-such], that means she can’t [such-and-such]??”

I’m sure there are lots of ways you could do it, but I hope that’s helpful! If you want any more suggestions or advice, ask away!

[churchyardgrim]

Hi! I noticed recently that your description now says that you're "none gender left dude" (awesome phrasing, lol), and I was wondering what your process was for figuring out your gender? I've been exploring whether I might be non-binary and things you've said about gender in the past seem similar to things that I've thought.

hah thank u! I think I stole the wording from tumblr famous turing-tested hdhfhgdf

so first off gender is Weird, and your milage may vary - everyone experiences this nonsense differently! that said, it was a pretty strange roughly two year long thought process on my part, and I’m not entirely sure transmasc nonbinary is my Final Form even, but it’s most comfy for now and that’s what matters. this is gonna get kinda long and rambly, fair warning hdhfhgdf

if you’re afab, you might be used to a certain amount of discomfort around your gender, bc that’s assumed to be just part of the Girl Experience. I remember feeling vaguely ashamed and defensive both for and against my girlhood for a long time, I felt like I had to prove something, without really knowing what that something was. I only started to better conceptualize that discomfort much more recently, when I started thinking about gender hypotheticals, imagining if experiences were Different - which was helped in no small part by being around other trans and nb folks! the world inside your head seems so much smaller when you’re in the same places you’ve always been, around the same people you’ve always been with, it can be hard to break out of old thought patterns when everything external is still the same. 

I started to realize that I actually felt more comfortable when femininity wasn’t the focus, and then I mentally tried on some masculine honorifics, and bought a binder to test some hypotheses. there wasn’t really a lightbulb moment, it was more a slow turn of thought to “well damn, this actually feels Better” which lead me to picking more deeply at that vague discomfort around Femininity. the conclusion I came to was that my particular kind of discomfort was caused by a few compounding factors, the most prominent of which is society kind of treats women like shit, and being a woman feels like vulnerability, and I Don’t Like It. 

I’d thought that I just had to Put Up With It, if I was tough enough I could make that source of discomfort go away, if I was loud enough and fierce enough and talked about winged eyeliner sharp enough to kill a man enough then things would get better, but they didn’t, and it felt like I was faking it, like I wasn’t trying hard enough, and it just spiraled into another source of guilt and discomfort that compounded on the first, and it just didn’t help at all. watching some other folks in my life go through similar thought processes and deciding “hey, actually, this sucks and I’m opting out” made me realize that that’s an option. you’re allowed to opt out of being Girl! for any reason!!! terfs and transmeds will try to tell you that a reason like that is somehow cheating, or Not Trans Enough, or misdirected internalized misogyny, or some shit, but terfs and transmeds say a lot of bullshit and none of it’s worth much. 

and from there it’s mostly just deciding what particular flavor of nonbinary I like best, cause I’m pretty sure I’m not Original Flavor Man, and I’m still not 100% settled on that yet, but there’s no rush yanno? there’s no deadline for this shit, if stuff is confusing or isn’t settling right there’s no hurry to pick an answer, usually it just needs time and the kind of background processing that ur not really conscious of. right now that kind of nebulous nb space where butch woman and twink man kind of overlap, stylistically speaking, really appeals to me, so that’s what I’m gunning for rn. but honestly all it comes down to is personal taste and aesthetic and What Feels Best, and experimentation and research and trying shit out for the sake of Science is honestly your best bet there imo. it’s hard to figure this stuff out on a purely theoretical level, the more data you can get the better!

good luck anon, gender shit’s a clusterfuck and I hope you find a spot that feels right to you!

[i-am-the-myrmidon]

Begging you to not even joke about transphobes being in the closet simply for using pen names. Begging you to recognize "haha you're the thing you hate" isn't a good joke and hurts people actually in the group and in this case just reinforces the terf idea that trans men are just women trying to escape the bad parts of being a woman because she's literally just using a male pen name because she thinks it'll make people take her more seriously.

Hi friend. I’m a trans man making an off-handed comment about my opinions on my 12 follower blog. Bold of you to assume it’s a joke; I was expressing a long held frustration about the way it really feels like she’s displacing and ruining countless lives over it. I think she needs to ask herself some questions about why she returns to masc names. To suggest as such does not imply that all trans men are just trying to escape the bad parts of being a woman, it’s calling into question whether that’s the real reason she’s doing it. Yeah yeah, you shouldn’t assume peoples gender. A Crass statement on my part or not, it’s disrespectful to assume you know exactly what I meant from 12 words on a tumblr post and come onto my tumblr.hell blog and hush and lecture me about it.

I went through a period where I used male pen names and initials only because “u won’t get the recognition under a woman’s name” was the excuse I came up with because I wasn’t ready to confront my internalized transphobia. I don’t have to wonder why I really felt I wouldn’t get the recognition I wanted going by a woman’s name anymore. But someone saying that seems like a logical explanation when you’re young and in pain you don’t have the language for.

Block me if you don’t like it; If you don’t like someone’s opinions that’s fine but stop acting like you have the right to silencing and policing them. You can mind your own business. I have the right to talk about my experiences

there are trans men that fall into TERF rabbit holes and get gaslit out of accepting themselves or blocked altogether because it happened early. I want those men/man-adjacent people who have struggled with that (this even pushes into transfemme nonbinary territory too: anyone that identifies with masculinity can internalize an aversion to it bc terf propaganda and feel the dysphoria of being unable to connect with an aspect of your gender) to have a reference for that sensation. I want them to know that you are not alone in that struggle and to see people who have overcome that struggle. To know there may be another explanation for why they feel that way. I want them to know I am immeasurably happier now than I was back then.