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tentpoletrauma · 4 years

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Transcript of our Wolfman 2010 Podcast

Unknown Speaker 0:12 Welcome to Tentpole Trauma, the podcast where we look at movies that came with hype and high hopes, but left with crushing disappoint either critically at the box office are both. Free from the weight of expectations, we seek to examine these underperformers under a new light parsing through the good, the bad and everything in between the hopes of gaining a better understanding as to why they failed to find their audience.

Unknown Speaker 0:43 Warning, there will be spoilers. So if you haven't seen the movie that we're discussing today, I suggest you stop the podcast and go watch it. Then when you come back and listen, you'll get more out of the discussion. This episode we examine the 2010 remake of The Wolf Man.

Unknown Speaker 1:23 I've been a universal horror fan for as long as I can remember. So I was pretty excited back in 2010 when the Wolf Man remake got rooms I've been following the production I knew Benicio del Toro was playing the Wolf Man, which I thought was great. I knew the original director left and was replaced with Joe Johnston, who I liked but didn't think was that inspired of a choice. But still, I was really excited to see it even after numerous delays. The first signs of real trouble were the extremely tepid reviews and tepid is a kind descriptor, but I maintained my enthusiasm and on opening weekend dragged my pointedly disinterested girlfriend to see it. The movie started promisingly enough with a pretty cool werewolf attack. But as the stilted drama set in, I could feel the audience snickering and turning against the movie. And more importantly, I could feel my girlfriend turning against me for dragging her to see this thing. We didn't last much longer. Still, over the years, I've maintained a certain affection for the film, even buying it on blu ray to have it as a, as I call put on in the background kind of movie, something that's visually pleasing that you can just look at not really pay attention to it. Over the years, I've even tried to get friends and family to watch it with me and perhaps reevaluate the film. But usually I'm just met with a healthy serving of side eye and skepticism. So am I insane for liking this maligned movie? I guess that's a question we'll have to address today as we deep dive into the 2010 remake of the wolf, man.

Unknown Speaker 3:19 All right, this is Sebastian, and I'm here today with Jennifer Hello, and Chris.

Unknown Speaker 3:25 Hey, how's it going?

Unknown Speaker 3:26 And we're gonna be talking about the Wolf Man remake from 2010. Directed by Joe Johnston, who did Captain America The Winter Soldier, and he did the Rocketeer and Jurassic Park three, and written by Andrew Kevin Walker, who wrote seven and some other stuff. So you know, there's kind of a pedigree there. I already in my intro talked about my experience with this film. Jennifer, do you have any previous experience with this film?

Unknown Speaker 3:57 Yes, I do. My first exposure to this film was through you insisting that I watched this film, I think it was probably around 2012 or 2013. Does that sound right?

Unknown Speaker 4:10 It sounds right.

Unknown Speaker 4:10 Yeah. And I remember just not really, not really getting that into it. I was just kind of I wasn't, I didn't hate it by any means. But I just was kind of like, okay, that's, it's that was fine. But then watching it for the podcast. I had a different experience this time, which we'll go into also watching, both theatrical and the unrated version made a big difference. So But yeah, I did not see it in the theater. I it's not really I'm a horror person but, and I like universal monsters. The creatures more my guy, but I'm not you know, not super

Unknown Speaker 4:58 Wolfie Okay, Chris.

Unknown Speaker 5:01 Um, yeah, so my experience with Wolf Man was, I saw Dracula in high school loved it thought it was great. I thought it was like a great goth movie that everybody seemed to be into. And goth was a big thing. And then Frankenstein came out, which was, I guess, and unofficial sequel to that it still had the same vibe had a good director and a bunch of golf production design. And that was not

Unknown Speaker 5:32 just to be clear, we're talking about the Coppola Dracula and the Kenneth brown a Frankenstein.

Unknown Speaker 5:37 Exactly. And so I was kind of following that thread. Because I love Dracula, even though I it's flawed. And then Frankenstein came out, which I didn't love as much, but it was still a good time. And then Wolf Man came out. And I believe it was touted as like the third of a trilogy of, you know, the same type of pedigree we're gonna make, we're gonna give this treatment to these three monsters. And I believe, I don't know why I didn't see it at the time that it came out. Maybe because the reviews were bad or I was busy or something like that. But it took until now that Sebastian was doing this podcast that I was like, Oh, I guess it's time to watch it. And, and I've seen it for the first time.

Unknown Speaker 6:22 All right. Well, before we get into your feelings on the movie, let's just kind of dig in. This movie had a troubled production. It was originally going to be directed by Mark Romanek, who's a pretty cool director. Yeah, one one hour photo. Mm hmm. And

Unknown Speaker 6:38 lots of great music videos, too.

Unknown Speaker 6:41 That's right. And I was working at cinephile at the time and Benny not to name drop but Benicio del Toro would come in. And he was a huge Wolf Man fan. And he was really excited that he was going to get to play the Wolf Man. And I'm a huge Wolf Man fan. I love the 1940s original, so I was excited for him to play it. But it took a long time for the movie to come out. Because there were just you know, Mark Romanek, ended up leaving at the last minute, and there were like delays, Joe Johnson took over and had to just work with whatever they had. And you know, then it ended up with the release ended up being delayed, for whatever reason, so it ended up like taking two years for you to come out. But that's a little background on the movie. So let's just get into it. It starts with the universal logo. So this is definitely they're setting it up that this is a universal monster movie. In the the theatrical version. Yeah, it's cool. And the theatrical version. It's pretty easy. It's just black and white, but in the unrated version, you get a sort of more old school like 1940s universal logo.

Unknown Speaker 7:51 Yeah, I love that. It's really up. It's updated, but feels old school and it's like, it's really the right way to go iPod.

Unknown Speaker 7:58 Yeah, it sets the tone. I don't know if they intended this to be the first of the quote unquote, dark universe that they were trying to do. A few years back, they would keep saying, you know, they, they I think they set it with this movie. Then they set it with Dracula Untold. Then they set it with the Tom Cruise mummy. They were really hoping to do a marvel universe of universal monsters, which I would have been game for. But they

Unknown Speaker 8:23 shouldn't that should have been the tagline.

Unknown Speaker 8:27 But they couldn't seem to get that going. Anyway. So this isn't really the beginning of the dark universe because there is no dark universe. It starts off with some Danny Elfman music, which reminded me a lot of the 1979 Dracula that came out in the disco era with Franklin gela Mm hmm. It really borrows some themes. for that.

Unknown Speaker 8:48 To me the score just sound doesn't sound like Danny Elfman at all it very it to me, it just sounds like they're ripping off the score of the Coppola Dracula, you know, with that sort of luxurious string arrangements. And it's a strange like, I remember thinking like didn't then I think he is he a Czech composer for the Coppola Dracula, and he had died. So I was like, who composes because it sounds exactly like him. So and I was shocked to see that it was Danny Elfman because it doesn't sound like his trademark, you know, score at all.

Unknown Speaker 9:22 It doesn't sound like a kooky circus.

Unknown Speaker 9:26 Not at all.

Unknown Speaker 9:27 No, I think he was intentionally trying to evoke that apparently, he was originally hired to do the score. And then they tried to go with another score, I think and then they went back to his score. Anyway, it just sort of typical of the sort of troubled production of this, this movie. And anyway, moving on, it opens with the quote from the original the, you know, man becomes a wolf when the wolf Bane bloons that's straight from the original and it's pretty stylish in a sort of computer generated way. Yeah which is a which is a thing I think this movie it can either be a plus or a minus to you like it's very you know they're going for that really God thing but it's pretty computer CG golf.

Unknown Speaker 10:14 Yeah, agreed 100% I think

Unknown Speaker 10:17 that's the problem. That's what that's something that makes the Bram Stoker Dracula standout is that they went with a lot of old school visual effects and just you know, the feel of the whole thing was purposely sort of antique whereas this the production design works but the filmmaking techniques are very modern and in their hidden Miss You know, sometimes they work and then sometimes you see Oh, that's just a Morph cut that just, they just put in there because they could.

Unknown Speaker 10:46 Okay, so we get the opening attack, which is, you know, we later find out is Larry Talbots. I'm gonna call him Larry just because I think that's funny. Larry Talbots brother getting attacked on the Moore's there's sort of a voiceover from Emily Blunt, which didn't feel added anything to it really. And you know, we get this whole attack, which is pretty cool, but I feel like it It feels very rushed.

Unknown Speaker 11:13 The whole beginning feels rushed. Like, well, the voiceover from Emily Blunt in the theatrical version is she's writing a letter to Larry. Right. Yeah. So she's and you know, we're getting this this backstory. And that was, like the beginning. I just felt like, Is it me? I don't know what, what just happened? What is going on here? Like is it just it felt it feels like we just, it zooms by and not in a good way. Just wait way too much too fast. And it just feels like it's just kind of thrown together. And that Yeah, I was completely just baffled at that some of the things that were going on,

Unknown Speaker 11:56 well, in the unrated cut, you get a little more of the attack, and we get this whole scene of Larry acting. He's supposedly on stage in London, he's performing Hamlet or something. And Gwen does not write a letter to him in this version, she actually comes to the theater and he's backstage and he sort of got a cool bathrobe on he sort of rock starring out and she floors him to come check because I think his brother is missing at that point. But he sort of puts her off but she kind of gives him a guilt trip. I felt like compared to the theatrical version, where all you get is this voiceover from Emily Blunt. And you're suddenly right at the right at Blackmore Manor, I felt like the unrated version was an improvement.

Unknown Speaker 12:49 Yeah, I see, having watched both of them, I definitely can see how the pendulum swung hard both ways. You know, like, the Extended Cut is way too long. There's way too much intro, you know, it'll take like half an hour before like that Gypsy attack happens. So I understand why they cut a lot of that stuff, because it's just needless exposition. But now hearing Jen's reaction to it, I think, you know, they obviously cut maybe too much, because they're, they're really just, you know, trying to keep it tight and compress everything so that it gets going. But I will say having watched the Extended Cut that man, it's kind of a slog and a drag to, to get to where the movies going,

Unknown Speaker 13:30 you're sort of coming at it from the opposite end of Gen where you felt like the extended was taking too long.

Unknown Speaker 13:35 Definitely. And in you saying that it's a troubled production and that the you know, the director got swapped out at the last minute totally makes sense, because this feels very, you know, made by committee where nobody had a strong vision. And they were like, Okay, well, it's too long. Well, now let's make it too short or whatever. And, you know, no one actually said I understand the story. We're gonna make this happen. This is you know exactly what it's gonna be like, it definitely feels that way where there's not a strong vision hand at the helm.

Unknown Speaker 14:06 I wouldn't want more. This was like, in this case, it just for me, I was like, I felt so much more like, Oh, this is what they're doing. Because I remember even being like, is Larry an actor? like is that what he was doing? Because it's like literally like just like a quick flash of him on the stage or something. And I'm like, wait, and setting up also with Emily Blunt. Like, because throughout the film, I was like, Okay, I know she's supposed to be you know, it's complicated, but she's, you know, supposed to be kind of a love interest. And I just wasn't really feeling it. But then with this at the beginning with her coming there, there was this more to their relationship, and I actually was more invested, so to speak, but yeah, so anyway, the the unrated worked worked for me, especially in the beginning.

Unknown Speaker 14:51 I wouldn't say that in any version, their relationship is is a strong point of the movie, but in the theatrical cut, you get nothing zero, you're like, I don't care at all, at least in the unrated cut you you have some reason to care. They've had some scenes that are meaningful. Yeah, in the in the theatrical, there's nothing.

Unknown Speaker 15:15 Um, well, this is just kind of a general note on just about the action and how the wolf, you know, plays out in his attacks. Like, it's something, there's movies like Jurassic Park, or, you know, other werewolf movies, which gives you that sense of, you know, a wild animal attack. And, you know, if you've ever been around, like, you know, an angry dog or anything like that, you get that sense, where it's like, oh, my God, like anything can happen. But when he attacks it, it feels more like a bus hit. And then an animal attack, you know, because he just comes in out of nowhere and just slams. It's like, half jumpscare, half bus hit. And it just, I don't know, I just feel like it doesn't, it doesn't work. It's not a unique way of, you know, having him attack and it just doesn't feel scary to me.

Unknown Speaker 16:02 It feels more like a superhero thing. Yeah. And I feel and I think that a lot of this movie has that kind of feel where it's almost more of a superhero movie, even though the superheroes, you know, killing people. It just has a more modern superhero vibe to it in a weird way. If that makes any sense.

Unknown Speaker 16:21 Absolutely. This is relates to a point that I have with just the story in general that I feel like they set up a lot of things that never pay off. Like, why haven't be an actor, why, you know, have the meet backstage at the beginning. It's just, there's, there's so many weird threads in this story that just don't seem to pay off. And, and I feel like I feel the story being stretched. And like we were saying, the right amount of information is somewhere in the middle between the theatrical and Extended Cut. But there's just so many ideas in this story that never pay off that they were trying to, like, give love to some and then not enough for the others. It's just kind of a mess. I think

Unknown Speaker 17:07 with the him being an actor, I totally know. There's definitely things I agree with you Chris that never come to fruition, but I feel like part of the him being an actor is like they're trying to paint this picture also, which I think again, is more represented in the unrated version, is that he is such an outsider to the town, as at this point, like he's totally like a fish out of water. Like, you know, and I think like even at one point Anthony Hopkins is this you know, kind of says something along the lines of like, oh, coming back to the you know, small town or something along the lines of that, you know, so I think they're trying to make him like just as uncomfortable they're like not wanted there you know, even without even before all the other stuff happens that that's I mean, but yes, there's so many things that are set up the door really pay off but that's that's all I could gather from from going into his acting career.

Unknown Speaker 18:02 Maybe it's also to say that his Mid Atlantic accent is because he's an actor and has been away for so long. That's right. Oh, he's in New York. That's where he picked up this weird accent. Like, I also

Unknown Speaker 18:12 think that's what it how it was in the original, which didn't really play into anything in the original film either. But I think they just that's why because that's the character gotcha as as known from the 1940s film, you know, in the unrated cut, we get a scene on a train with the great Max von seido like why do you cut Max von side obviously, Larry is looking at a picture of his mom and then Max von seido sitting across from him and Max von seido. Has this silver wolf cane, which to your point Chris doesn't end up paying out in any real way in the movie. And it's only in there and I think this might be the the overall answers your question as to why things don't pay out and why they're in there is because in the 1940s movie, he's the Wolf Man is killed by his father with a wolf head cane just like that. Okay, so it's

Unknown Speaker 19:13 a setup without payoff as like a twist to the old be the people who knew Okay,

Unknown Speaker 19:20 yeah, the cane is not the strongest point of this movie. Okay, so we get to Blackmore Manor, which is the Talbot estate, we find out at that point that his brother's dead. You know, I think the production value whatever you feel about this movie, I think the production value is pretty great. All the locations are really cool. I love the look of the manor. It looks like a you know, kind of like a rundown Downton Abbey. Yes. With lots of leaves in the interior and my squeaking, lots of squeaking. We get Anthony Hopkins and he's you know he's doing you're pretty much like standard late period Anthony Hopkins performance. But it's one of those cases where he's Anthony Hopkins and he, he's totally watchable. It's you know, it's he's not doing anything. He seems kind of half asleep in a way. And he's not doing anything spectacular, but he's just great because he's Anthony Hopkins.

Unknown Speaker 20:16 totally true. Totally agree. Yes. I just Yeah, he's just kind of being creepy and just yeah, doing doing his thing. And it's a great I think opening scene to having him come in there looked up. Definitely rundown Downton Abbey. Lots of spider webs just kind of in disarray. But yeah, it's that I was happy, happy just to spend some time with with Anthony.

Unknown Speaker 20:42 You know, Anthony Hopkins at 50% is still better than most people's on 100% Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 20:48 Yes. Yeah, the productions that design is definitely stellar. I mean, it's got that golf feel and it's definitely the I think the best thing about it, you know, I mean, the cinematography as well with the high contrast lighting and the smoke everywhere, everything looks right. You know, they they definitely spent the right amount of money and, and have the right fuel going. It's the other stuff. It's the story and the acting that to me don't work. And Anthony Hopkins can do no wrong. Of course, he's definitely phoning it in and like you said it, his phoning it in is already better than most people's full throttle. But can we talk about Benicio for a second? Like I feel like he is not giving me much of anything. And I'm also trying to think of what other lead roles he's had where he's knocked it out of the park. Like he's always great as the crazy sidekick. And I think maybe he's not capable of pulling off the lead in a movie like this where there's not a lot to Larry. I mean, he's just this mopey guy. He's supposed to be an actor, but like, I feel like I get nothing from his character.

Unknown Speaker 21:53 He's definitely trying to, I believe, especially with his haircut and everything, which is not terribly flattering on him. He's got a sort of like almost bowl cut,

Unknown Speaker 22:04 like a Caesar cut. Yeah, that was was that the style at the time? Was that cool?

Unknown Speaker 22:08 Or it was? I don't think so. He looks a little puffy. And he's kind of looks a little overweight. So I think he was trying to actually invoke Alon Chani Jr, who played the Wolf Man in the original. I mean, he was a huge, huge fan of that movie. But I also think he might be a little checked out because I think he was very supportive of Mark Romanek. And when I think he was a little upset that, you know, they switched out directors, and, you know, he may have been sort of checked out. We need

Unknown Speaker 22:45 to have a term for that, like, you know, like Marlon Brando with Island of Dr. Moreau when an actor gets ditched by the director, and then just phones in the movie, like, Can we call that something? Well, but I don't know.

Unknown Speaker 22:56 I don't I wouldn't compare those two because Brando and Island of Dr. Moreau is crazy. Right? Right. Like, does whatever

Unknown Speaker 23:04 you want. Well, he Benicio should have done that, you know, that would have been more interesting.

Unknown Speaker 23:08 Yeah. I think he's got his moments. I think we know when he's getting ready to change and stuff. I think he does good. But I agree, when we're doing the sort of straightforward stuff and he's just trying to be sort of, you know, mysterious romantic lead. It doesn't really work. And I don't think that that's his, his wheelhouse. No,

Unknown Speaker 23:28 I was fine with it. I just I think but also, I'm just like, such a fan of his I really like him a lot. So I'm, I'm just giving him a pass. Like, I don't know, I was fine with it. I wasn't looking at him and his performance that critically, especially once I got to see the unrated version and got to spend some more time with Larry lots and lots of more time with Larry so I knew what was uh, what was really going on with Larry. But yeah, I thought I thought his performance was was fine for for what it is.

Unknown Speaker 24:01 Okay, so moving on, he goes to the village to see his brother's body which is being kept in a slaughterhouse. I don't know if that was common for the time or if they just thought it would be a kind of a cool touch. But we get sort of a you know, quick shot of the body and I feel like the gore effects are good. Overall, in this movie, they make a real attempt to lean into the our rating, which I appreciate a lot of the times it's sort of CGI gore and violence, but you know, they don't hold back which I like about the movie.

Unknown Speaker 24:36 I thought that scene was gross like I in my notes I wrote yuck because it was just that's how I felt because I mean, it's our I yeah, I had the same question. I was like as this is how it was done. I was like are they just really hate Ben and they hate the tall but family and they just throw them in here and that the slaughterhouse because this is this is gross. I mean, and they're like you really feel it because it's like, Benicio is like just covering His face and I'm like buying it I'm like, this place stinks. This is this is nasty. And I thought also when they pull it back it was it was good good like it may be the first time it made me kind of jumps is like oh, like it wasn't ready for for that like, though there was some serious wolf chowing down on Ben.

Unknown Speaker 25:19 Well, and I think you might have a point about the town's folk, because in the next scene, we go to the pub, and the town's folk are sort of talking about the brother's death. And you know, Larry's there at the, in the corner at a table and he's, you know, hearing them talk. He looks a medallion that he found on his brother, which isn't very well explained. The townspeople are blaming the Gypsy, and we you know, we get a werewolf story. You know, a lot of this reminded me of the pub scene and American Werewolf in London. Absolutely. Now in the unrated version, one of the guy starts talking smack about the family, you know, talk smack about his mom going crazy. And Larry, the scene ends with Larry throwing a drink on the guy, which, again, I felt this made the scene better in the theatrical cut. It's just the scene. He doesn't interact with him at all. He's just sort of sitting there. So I felt like the unrated cut at least shows you Oh, he doesn't get it. He doesn't like the villagers. They don't like his family. This is probably why he left and puts a nice button on that point.

Unknown Speaker 26:26 Yes, I agree. Because Yeah, and the theatrical he's just sitting over there kind of just sulking and listening. And the townspeople are also alluding to the fact that it might you know, it might not have been a beast it could it like they're kind of talking about seems like they were I think they're talking kind of about like jack the Ripper or something like that. I do remember they're kind of talking about that there's there's a mentally unstable, you know, man that could have done this or something.

Unknown Speaker 26:52 Right. And wasn't a Hugo Weaving, like was his last case was the Ripper. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 26:57 yeah, he was. Yeah, he was on the Ripper case, which Yeah, Larry kind of needles him with because obviously, they never caught jack the Ripper. So

Unknown Speaker 27:06 and I think like they were also kind of alluding to Larry's mental state, which we learn more about later.

Unknown Speaker 27:13 So this this whole pub talk, and you reminding us that you know, this happened in American Werewolf in London. And how it's, it's pretty much the same scene, same beats, you know, beware don't go out and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, trying to be spooky warning. But I feel like it there's no twist on it. You know, in Frankenstein, and in Dracula, the mo was, let's go back to the book. Let's go back to the source. Let's let's do it really was in the book that in because it's never been done. beholden to the book, The way we're gonna do it. And that was what they were thinking. Whereas with Wolf, man, what was the mo here, you know, to be beholden to the old movie, because they're just retreading all these cliches without adding anything new to them. I feel like they're, they're just, you know, are here's the tip here, we're gonna do the Wolf Man story, the way it would be as if it were a cliche. And you're like, well, so why All right, I guess we get some better special effects. Get some good actors get some good lighting and production design, but there's no imagination, there's no umph to it to me.

Unknown Speaker 28:21 Well, they're I think they're just trying to update the whole thing for a modern audience who don't want to go back to the 1941 and watch it. But to your point, they're kind of taking from just werewolf movie history and kind of throwing it all throwing it all in there because they don't have a book source. They do. You know, there is no novel of the Wolf Man. The 1940s movie was the original version of it. So you know, I kind of see what they're doing. I feel like they're just trying to sort of update Yeah, Gothic werewolf movie as an abstract, not as a specific thing. Got it. Now in the unrated cut, we get a dinner scene with dad, Gwen, Larry and the Kim fail sheet See, doesn't get introduced at all, or he gets really barely introduced at all in the theatrical version. He's just sort of standing in the background. And they dine on baked eel, which is just about the grossest thing I can imagine. I can't think of anything that I'd like to eat less baked eel. And they talk about the superstitious villagers. And we get a real sense that there's tension between dad and Larry here, which I like and it gets really uncomfortable for Gwen and she leaves. I appreciated the scene because it set up more of the dynamics dramatically.

Unknown Speaker 29:46 Yes, I appreciated this as well. Also with his, I believe he called him his manservant, the Kim Valle. Seek. I that was another thing we're like in the future. conversion. I was like, when did we meet this guy like it happened so fast with him and that the electrical version I was like, Wait, what? What's going on here? And you

Unknown Speaker 30:09 want to know who he is yours that guy?

Unknown Speaker 30:11 Yeah, no, you definitely want to know who he is. So yeah, I appreciated more of him. The seek is another thread that just never pays off.

Unknown Speaker 30:20 Did you see in the unrated cut when he picks up the guitar and starts ripping on some Soundgarden,

Unknown Speaker 30:26 I would have loved to have seen that.

Unknown Speaker 30:28 Now, in the theatrical version, they cut right to the manor. And, you know, there's this sort of awkward scene where Larry goes to Gwen's door and he's like, Hey, I'm here. And I know, when you've seen the unrated, you can see that this is a scene they threw together to sort of set it up that they've met. Yeah, at this point, because, you know, she's in the theatrical she's only written him a letter. But there is this weird thing where the letter she wrote, keeps coming up, again, in the unrated version, which didn't happen in the unrated version. So when a mess, yeah, like as an editor, I think it's interesting to have you on this conversation specifically, Chris, because you are an editor. And you've probably been involved in some projects where they've had to sort of cobble things together from different versions definitely

Unknown Speaker 31:21 obviously just left in and they're like Foghat who cares. And you know, I'm sure it made sense in like, probably like, the first, you know, maybe two and a half hour cut of it, and then they just kept chopping away. And then who knows who they brought in to do a hack job, but I'm sure a lot of those threads were left in and they just, instead of, you know, in that in specifically in that scene, if you look where he meets, I think it's the theatrical cut where he meets her for the first time in the hallway. A lot of his dialogue is on her. So it's just ADR him saying, like, I got your letter, very nice to meet you. And you can totally tell that they just ADR, those lines into shoo in that he is meeting here for the first time there. So yeah, this, it's definitely a mess. And there's a lot of those things that I think people just wouldn't notice on our first viewing. But now we're analyzing it. Yeah, you're like, Oh,

Unknown Speaker 32:16 no, I wouldn't if I only watched the unrated cut, I probably wouldn't have noticed it. It's just because I'm familiar with both versions. What what I find kind of weird about it is that you would assume the unrated cut was closer to say the assembly directors of the assembly cut and then they whittled it down. But she talks about the letter in the later scenes in the unrated cut so it's almost as if they made the decision to cut it down while they were still filming

Unknown Speaker 32:47 it. Maybe it was like a bigger even bigger thing where she wrote him a letter then went to visit him then you know, like so it's probably a thing on the thing on the thing. And then they were just like, let's all just cut it out. And

Unknown Speaker 32:58 I think that would have made sense since actually Chris because it would have like that she could have written him first and then he didn't respond and then she went in person, because you know, he wasn't responding. The other thing that I wanted to point out about when she does when he goes to her door, is that her maid or lady and waiting or whatever you want to call her is Yara Greyjoy Did you notice that? No way from Game of Thrones? Yeah, I was like, Oh my God, that's the Greyjoy sister tiara,

Unknown Speaker 33:28 which was like can you miss her? She disappears I think

Unknown Speaker 33:31 you might get her on one more scene like but very very brief.

Unknown Speaker 33:34 That's like the only reason for me to go back and watch

Unknown Speaker 33:38 Yeah, we're giving away your hand Chris

Unknown Speaker 33:42 and just to touch upon Emily Blunt now you know i think you know she's well cast in this movie. I guess she does a really good job considering what she's been given which I think is a pretty thankless role. There's not a lot to it but I mean, she gets some moments to cry and stuff and I you know, I think she delivers I think a case could be made for the her being the best for sure in the movie. I agreed.

Unknown Speaker 34:08 Let me bring up one more point about just the brothers story in general like why I don't maybe this is originally in you know, in the original Wolf Man, but it just makes no sense to have this brother standing in the way of a the love story, all of it just like why doesn't Why don't they just give the story to Benicio and have him be in love with her. And it's like this trifecta between him and Anthony Hopkins. It just seems to be a step too far.

Unknown Speaker 34:34 The brother is just a plot device to get him

Unknown Speaker 34:37 but he's so important because it's like oh, that's Emily Blunt's you know, fiance and all this stuff where it just seems like they could have figured out a different way of doing it. You know, it seems like

Unknown Speaker 34:47 a gothic romance kind of thing. You told Oh, the dead brother, you know, okay. It adds a layer of you know, sadness to it.

Unknown Speaker 34:58 They just need to do it. It was I agree they just needed to get him as far as like the why why that's important is just like because it comes to you know, to light later about you know how much she hates his father and how much he hates this town and like wouldn't come back so it's like and and again if we you know if we do believe that there was a letter and then there was her going there and you know, I mean there could have always been some sort of kind of thing between them because yeah, it's the whole Gothic like, you know, longing and all that stuff. Yeah, but yeah, it's just I think it's totally just to get him back home and to just make it the most dysfunctional family ever. We pretty much and worst dad award of all time. Yeah, we'll come to find out later.

Unknown Speaker 35:47 And I will say this. I don't think that Benicio del Toro and Emily blonde have sizzling on screen chemistry. On speaking of worst dad award, we get another scene with Talbot and his dad and Anthony Hopkins looking out the telescope to the moon. Again, the telescope is a reference to the original film. His dad in the original film, who was played by Claude Rains is fascinated with his telescope, but the telescope never comes into play later. So it's yet another sort of reference that doesn't have a real point in the story.

Unknown Speaker 36:25 That scene I do love that Anthony Hopkins takes the time to blow out almost every single candle that he has in the room which I'm like you know what fucking a that's realistic you know like with the production design like this year like how many freakin candles does this guy have and they show him like you know what, it's time to go to bed this was a ritual we used to have I would you'd have to sit here open up this thing blow inside put it out and it's actually a fun callback when you see him in his sorry spoiler when if we just jump ahead to his little man cave or wolf cave thing? There's like 8 million candles there and I just kept thinking like how long is it gonna take him to blow these in his gave man it will take a long time.

Unknown Speaker 37:06 It was the family crypt I believe

Unknown Speaker 37:08 Okay, I'm surprised he didn't make his poor Kim fail manservant Yeah, blow out all these candles. But I thought also Chris I noticed the candles as well. And I was also really impressed with like, some of the cool like lantern type devices they have like candles as well like kind of these like kind of mini torch type things. I don't know what you would call it but I was like I thought that was really again with the production design. The attention to detail was was really cool.

Unknown Speaker 37:37 You know that blowing out all the candles thing was was all Hopkins I was like, I need to blow out all these.

Unknown Speaker 37:45 Okay, Anthony, go ahead.

Unknown Speaker 37:48 All right now in the unrated cut, we get Larry going to Gwen's room. But it's a different scene than in the theatrical and he apologizes for making her uncomfortable into over dinner and gives her items of her brothers. It's you know, it's not like a great scene or anything, but it definitely helps sort of, you know, you feel that her character is more endeared to him by it, as opposed to in the theatrical where you don't really understand why she would be endeared to him at all, because they don't even really have any real scene. So again, I feel like it's a better scene. Then we get to one of few sequences in the film where Larry is having a flashback. It plays like a dream sequence but he's not sleeping he's awake. And he's just sort of having these traumatic flashes of

Unknown Speaker 38:42 maybe he took the spice

Unknown Speaker 38:46 and he's playing with his brother and the mother's watching you know they wake up at night and something sinister is going on in the house like in the hallway This is

Unknown Speaker 38:54 where we see the blood come out of the sidewalk I remember that being a very cool image

Unknown Speaker 38:58 Yes, yes, I believe that's where we see that it's all done in this very stylish Gothic kind of look, but it feels a little like they're trying hard to be trippy and spooky and I don't know if it's they kind of go like a little too far I think with some of the techniques, but he goes out into the garden we get a cool topiary had some cool topiary hedges a gorilla which I appreciated the topiary a gorilla, for sure you know in the movie looks expensive. They didn't spare any expense, which is why it's appropriate to do for Tentpole Trauma because they spent a lot of money on this movie and it bombed so I feel that it's appropriate for this podcast no

Unknown Speaker 39:42 doubt and I will say that the night scenes all look like they're shot at night, you know, and the lighting is great. And you know, there's no Day for Night here at all. And kudos to those cinematography for making it look appropriately scary.

Unknown Speaker 39:56 Yeah, I mean, I think the cinematography is is impeccable. I forget who the cinematographer was. I feel that it fits in with the Coppola Dracula and the Kenneth brana. Frankenstein, at least in that regard where you know, you know, it's high high production value update.

Unknown Speaker 40:15 Interesting. The cinematographer is Shelley Johnson. And he was also the cinematographer for Captain America The First Avenger. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 40:25 yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Because that same director, right

Unknown Speaker 40:28 buddies with Joe, but also what to Chris's point about, you know, bringing up a new agreed with that as well bringing up the superhero feel to some of the film anyway.

Unknown Speaker 40:38 Yeah. And Joe Johnson also did the rocket tear, which was also sort of a throwback, superhero 1940s type of things. So it's kind of his wheelhouse. I can see why he was hired for this when Mark Romanek left the production.

Unknown Speaker 40:51 He was also a special effects guy, right? Did he work on Star Wars? Yeah, stuff. So

Unknown Speaker 40:57 yeah, he was like a Spielberg protege, a guy who came up through Spielberg. Yeah, we get to see a quick shot of a D aged Hopkins with a goatee and the dead mother and it's sort of framed to look like a suicide. She's got a straight razor in her hand, you know, but I think at this point, nobody's really thinking that that is a suicide. The mother having, you know, spoiler the fact that the mother was killed by Hopkins, is really not a surprise at all. You know, even on first viewing, you're like, she didn't kill herself. It's kind of one of those performances by Hopkins where, you know, immediately he's a bad guy, you know, sort of like the sort of like the jack nicholson shining, where you're like, yeah, of course, he's gonna go crazy. He's clearly crazy.

Unknown Speaker 41:49 Yeah, even if you don't know exactly what his deal is, you know, he killed her, like you don't even if you don't know how it went down, you know what I mean? Like, there's more more to be revealed, but you immediately know that he's, he's the villain.

Unknown Speaker 42:03 And in that scene, Benicio, I feel like gives nothing right after you see his mother dead. Like, that was one of my notes. When you see that happen? You think, you know, I'm, I'm reliving this childhood trauma, and it cuts to him. And he's just like, Oh, yeah, I remember that. And I'm like, Whoa, what's going on here? Why didn't anybody direct this guide? Or? I don't know. That's an example of my of a moment where he he failed to deliver for me,

Unknown Speaker 42:29 I feel like it's a little unfair to judge his performance. Totally. Because the the editing is so suspected it but I feel like a lot of the especially the scenes where he's having these flashbacks, they could have been, like, put together from something else. Like I would have to have read the script to know if this was all intended to be in there. From the beginning.

Unknown Speaker 42:50 Maybe I'm reading too much into Larry. And maybe I'm just too much of a Binney SEO defender. But I also think that, you know, as we find out more, you know, sorry, spoiler alert, that Larry spent some time in asylum. Yeah. And they did a lot of bad things to Larry, I don't know if he is even able to have the proper emotional responses at this point. Because I mean, you see what goes on in the asylum. It's bad news. So maybe Larry's just tapped out like this is, you know, like, this is all the reaction that he can muster. Or maybe he just saves it all for the stage.

Unknown Speaker 43:31 Alright, so then moving on, we go to the brother's funeral. There's, you know, more Gothic imagery, then Larry and Gwen haven't have a moment by the waterfall. He talks about his father's cruelty. And then that's, as you were mentioning, Jen, where we get our first mention that he was put in an asylum, and then after that sent to America, this sort of waterfall setting will also come back into play at the very end.

Unknown Speaker 43:58 Yeah, that's where he says, Gwen says, Ben said that you guys played here as children. And Larry says it was our refuge. So we

Unknown Speaker 44:05 find out that Glen is leaving. You know, whatever. This is all happening super fast. It just feels like the scenes are really cut to the quick here. Then we get Lawrence goes off to find the gypsies because he's learned that his brother was involved with them or something like that. And you know, I like the Gypsy camp. It's pretty cool. It's you know, it's about what you would expect from a big budget movie Gypsy camp. Geraldine Chaplin, the daughter of Charlie Chaplin, is the gypsy woman

Unknown Speaker 44:36 I know she's also I know her from Do you guys know the movie with Holly Hunter home for the holidays? Do you remember that at all with like, Claire, I've heard of her name. Well, I highly recommend it. It's really good Robert Downey Jr. and Holly Hunter. And anyway, it's a fun holiday film, but that's where that's where I reckon

Unknown Speaker 44:52 Downey Jr. was in Chaplin.

Unknown Speaker 44:55 Oh, interesting. Yeah, good connection.

Unknown Speaker 44:57 Also on this scene, we get a quick Rick Baker cameo Rick Baker's the famous makeup artist who did design the way he designed American Werewolf in London and lots of Famous Monsters he designed just did he work on this? He did. He designed the werewolf. We get a quick cameo of him here. He's the guy that's just kind of on lookout and he's watching and then he gets slammed by the werewolf really quickly.

Unknown Speaker 45:24 I also wanted to bring up that before we get Larry going to the Gypsy camp, which by the way, we all know is not a good word, but that's just how they use it. And the film. Yes, just disclaimer. I was it's a little puzzling that Larry's Dad, I made a note of this because he's like telling him me like, you know, yeah, you should stay inside because it's going to be a full moon. I don't want to lose you too. And then he says all of that and then it's like cut too. We see Larry riding off to the Gypsy camp like you know, whatever, dad, because he of course he's not going to listen to him. So I guess as I'm talking it through now I'm thinking like, maybe it was some sort of reverse psychology to like to get

Unknown Speaker 46:04 him to go out. It is weird though. The way it cuts right from him saying Don't go Don't go out and I don't

Unknown Speaker 46:11 want to lose you too. And then yeah, he's there he is galloping away another great cut.

Unknown Speaker 46:17 We get the prerequisite in a universal monster movie. We get villagers with torches they show up for the bear because they're they blame the gypsies bear for the attack on Larry's brother. The bear is very clearly not a real bear. It's a CG bear. But you know, we don't want them torturing. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 46:36 well, did you hear what he said? He says to somebody says like he doesn't all he does is dance. And I was like, Oh, that's sad to like dancing berry circuses.

Unknown Speaker 46:48 Yeah, but that's like

Unknown Speaker 46:49 somebody said that he's supposed to be an old like bear that's like about to be put out to pasture. Right? Like, I think the pub people are like, there's no way that bear could have done this. He's so old. And yeah, you feel a lot of sympathy for that bear even though he's CG.

Unknown Speaker 47:02 At least they don't have the bear fight the werewolf and get torn apart. Well, that would be more so I

Unknown Speaker 47:07 will say the claws through the policeman's mouth is pretty cool. That was one of the cool dads. I love that shot

Unknown Speaker 47:13 high. high praise for that, Chris. Yes, that that. I love that. I love that kill.

Unknown Speaker 47:19 Yeah, that's, you know, that's what happens the way the werewolf attacks that camp. And you know, we get that shot and a bunch of other pretty fun gore moments. This is when the movie really comes alive. For me these scenes. There's a lot of fair criticism to be had of the film when it's trying to be dramatic, but I feel like when we get to werewolf faction, it's pretty good werewolves. Action. I mean, yes, yes. Guilty of maybe being a little too CG at times. But you know, I don't know. I'm just happy to see a wolf man werewolf running around killing people. You know, I like the way the werewolves run on all fours. At some points. It's a little goofy, but I just like it.

Unknown Speaker 48:02 That's great. It's almost like, you know, in Transformers when they transform to the different mode to go faster. You know, it's like, yes, it's almost like a cheer moment. Like, you know, if the movie were better, you would definitely be cheering at that part. Because you're like, I need to go fast. I don't do this boop, boop. And then it's just great.

Unknown Speaker 48:19 I love it too. It's It's It's total chaos when when wolf wolf thing happens, but it's like chaos in the best way. It's like it's exactly it's like for all the the slow burning that's going along. It's like you really get a payoff. And I love this scene in particular, because you have people screaming, it's the devil. Yeah, the devil. And then yeah, it's just total chaos. And then like he, there's like the little boy or the little girl that like loses or mom or dad or the mom's looking for them and like the kid wanders off or there's just like, it's Yeah, just so much so much happening. And like it's really intense. And like, you're Yeah, you're just kind of on the edge of your seat, literally. Sure.

Unknown Speaker 48:57 But in the in the Extended Cut, it takes like, what 4050 minutes to get to this point. Is it Yes, definite reason why they cut it.

Unknown Speaker 49:06 At this point. You know, we get to sort of see that Larry has a hero in him. He grabs a gun and sort of goes to help people being attacked. There's this one kid who runs off he goes to help him the kid runs off into this like Stonehenge. Yes. Like I don't think it's literally supposed to be Stonehenge in

Unknown Speaker 49:27 England or there's just mini stone hedges like all around the corner in the countryside. I have the same

Unknown Speaker 49:32 exact same thought I was I just was like, is there just one that we know of here in the states are there there are many, many of these.

Unknown Speaker 49:40 Makes me want to live in England even more. I'm a druid No, you can just have a mini Stonehenge in your neighborhood. How cool would that be?

Unknown Speaker 49:49 You know the neighborhood stonehedge you know,

Unknown Speaker 49:51 and it's super foggy and gothy which I love. I'm a sucker for that kind of imagery. I don't care if a computer is doing it. I love it. That's the point where we get that Lawrence's attacked by the werewolf and bitten really savagely on the neck. So we know he's now bearing the mark of the wolf. And the villagers show up and drive the wolf away with their guns. And they bring Larry to the gypsy woman. And you know, everybody's basically telling her to kill him, but she won't do it. She tells them, he can only be released by someone who loves him. And we're all wondering who's

Unknown Speaker 50:33 this his dad doesn't love him let

Unknown Speaker 50:36 him fail. But stitching up of the wound was pretty gross in a good way. That was great. Like what she's stitching it up that was

Unknown Speaker 50:42 with one of those long curved needles.

Unknown Speaker 50:45 fishing hook. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 50:46 that was that was cringy. And a good way

Unknown Speaker 50:49 not to bring it back to Bram Stoker's Dracula again, but there's I feel like with Dracula, you almost get more bang for your buck. Because Dracula can be Dracula. He can be a bat and he also becomes a wolf. And the wolf in that is almost more interesting, because he can do way more things. Even as sex. Yeah. Which is more than you can say for this, you know, but I mean, I guess this is again, doing the classic wolf thing, but I would have liked a little bit even more craziness with with the wolf here, where, what else could he do? You know, but I know they're trying to keep it classic.

Unknown Speaker 51:24 Yeah, but then you'd be dealing with angry werewolf, right? Tell you what you can and can't do with a werewolf. And if you don't think that they'll do that, think again. Because horror fans can be really pedantic about what their movie monsters are allowed to do. If you ever want to find out go wander into a zombie conversation because there's a lot of strong feeling and a question

Unknown Speaker 51:47 Where did the term like isn't lichen, right, that lycanthrope? Like and throw? When did that become coming to use? Because I know what it was that underworld? Is that? Is that where they use it the most? But, you know, was it always around? Well, they call them lichens. Okay. Right.

Unknown Speaker 52:04 I think it's been around since the 1800s. I didn't research it. I don't know. But it's it's a term that's been around a while it's been around before,

Unknown Speaker 52:12 because it's in one of the books where she's researching. And I was like, oh, there's that word again. But like, when did pop culture? When did the movie start using it? Because I don't remember it from the 80s. It definitely

Unknown Speaker 52:22 no, it was definitely being used in the 80s. It was, it

Unknown Speaker 52:26 was it seems like instead, like you know how they go the Batman instead of Batman. They're like, let's say let's call them this. And so we don't have to call them werewolves now. And it just seems like like let's latch on to a new term.

Unknown Speaker 52:38 Yeah, it's a kind of it sounds sort of scientific. So it Yeah, sound smart. Right. When you say it?

Unknown Speaker 52:44 Well, it was first, the first mention of the word according to Wikipedia, was in 60. Ad.

Unknown Speaker 52:51 Whoa, wow.

Unknown Speaker 52:52 Yeah. Okay. So it's a it's a it's a Greek word, apparently. And it's translation. It's leukosis, which is Wolf and anthropos, which is man says Luke can throw pa or throw PA. That's where it comes from. The definition of it is that it's a form of madness involving the delusion of being an animal usually a wolf with corresponding altered behavior. But yeah, so it's been around for a long time. I don't know when it was, like, like subset I don't know when it was first mentioned in films, but it's it's a term that's been around a long, long time. It's used in movies and stuff earlier than you think. I wouldn't be surprised if it's used in the original Wolf Man or werewolf of London, which was the first official will universal were watching not American. Were right London, werewolf and of London. But um, yeah, good research. Interesting fact. So Lauren, Larry is brought back to the manor. When comes back, and like Glenn keeps coming and going. In the movie. It's like, just stay put, when

Unknown Speaker 54:02 the funeral is over. What is she doing? Like leaves?

Unknown Speaker 54:05 And then she comes, you know, it's just like, Why are Why are they moving her around so much in the story, just have her stay there. Who cares? It's a weird, baffling you know, sort of plot thing that keeps happening. You know, Larry's his head is swimming from I don't know, you know, being infected with lycanthropy. And we're getting these sort of dreamy, you know, heroine visions. You know, we get the sort of Gollum looking wolf boy,

Unknown Speaker 54:35 so Gollum. Yes. I wrote down the same thing.

Unknown Speaker 54:39 It looks like they just took the like, they took the Gollum model. Just through some, just, He really looks like Gollum. And you know, we'll later learn what that will boy is and it all it's, it's all fine, but it just seems kind of, you know, thrown together to add some scares or whatever.

Unknown Speaker 55:00 And then this is an again this is this is when Kim sale seek showed up and in the theatrical version, I was like wait, who is this guy again? It was just so like in the unrated. We get so much more of him. Anyway, so he shows up he comes in with a tray. And then you know Larry's like oh take when I thought you were leaving and Gwen's like this place is it's possible to escape. And this is, you know, this is Besides, this is the least I can do. Yeah. And then we see Larry, starting to heal.

Unknown Speaker 55:30 Then we pass over the spot where Anthony Hopkins and Emily blonde pass each other on the stairs. And he just I was just about to bring that up. I love I mean, talk about classic, awesome Anthony Hopkins where he's just eating the apple and just gives her the creepiest stare in the world. I love it.

Unknown Speaker 55:47 Well, that's only in the unrated cut. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 55:50 How could they cut that? But I mean, come on, like,

Unknown Speaker 55:53 yeah, I mean, in in the unrated cut. This whole section is much better because it's really montage in the theatrical and the unrated. They kind of let it breathe a little like, you know, we get that scene, like you said, where they pass each other on the stairs. And you can tell while he's eating the apple that he really doesn't want her there.

Unknown Speaker 56:11 Now, does that make sense with I'm sorry to skip to the end again. But he said, is he supposed to be in love with Emily Blunt? Okay, because there's a certain point where he's like, your brother was gonna take her away from me and blah, blah, blah, and I can't deal with her being away. I was like, wait a minute, what was was he into her the whole time? And I was totally confused.

Unknown Speaker 56:30 No, Chris, I felt the same way. But I think and maybe I'm wrong, but I think it was just because she kind of reminds him of Gen Y.

Unknown Speaker 56:40 Right? Because then the statue of his dead wife looks exactly like Emily Blunt too. Right. So yeah, okay. All right. I guess that makes but

Unknown Speaker 56:48 I had the I had the I had the same thing though, too. But then again, I was like, Okay, this is Gothic, like anything go right. Like the dad could be in love with her too as Emily Blunt. You know, it was like, damaged, you know, like that movie damaged.

Unknown Speaker 57:00 Yeah, you know, now that you're bringing it up, I think maybe you might have a point. And I've seen this movie more times than you guys. And I never that never really sunk in to me because it's so sort of thrown in there. But yeah, I think you know, he does have sort of some weird thing for her because she reminds him of his his dead wife.

Unknown Speaker 57:20 Maybe Anthony Hopkins was like remember legends of the fall? That's the only type of movie I'm going to do where everyone falls in love with the girl all three brothers.

Unknown Speaker 57:27 Well, yeah, it's a real crime against cinema that that Apple moment was cut out of the theatrical a great people needed to see that on the big screen. So Lawrence is better sort of miniseries just kind of seems like he's been on a like five day bender.

Unknown Speaker 57:45 Got a stiff neck right, that scene?

Unknown Speaker 57:47 Yeah, the doctor comes and checks him out. And you know he's healing miraculously which the doctor is clearly unnerved by Hopkins. Dad is kind of being nice to Gwen but it feels sort of threatening now that I'm thinking about it. Maybe he's attracted to her as you pointed out, just a basic like Okay, it looks like he's on the mend kind of part of the story. But we know better. He you know, he's looking at his wounds and he's seeing how how much healing he's gone through. And then Kim fail when they get the real scene with Kim fail seek. And Larry where he's the Sikh is in the dining room or something and he's like loading up

Unknown Speaker 58:33 cleaning the he's cleaning the gun or

Unknown Speaker 58:36 elephant gun or whatever it is.

Unknown Speaker 58:38 Yeah, he was cleaning guns

Unknown Speaker 58:40 and you'll we learn that he's been there. The Sikh has been there since Larry was a kid. His name is Singh. Yes. You know, he shows. Larry is the silver bullet that he's made. Well, he

Unknown Speaker 58:53 says, and then Larry says to sing now that you thank you for remembering his name. He says, Are you preparing for a war? And then sing says Do you believe in curses? Mm hmm.

Unknown Speaker 59:05 Yes. And that's it. This is when we really it's really driven home that sing is the man servant. And everybody needs a man servant. I think

Unknown Speaker 59:14 I need man's servant.

Unknown Speaker 59:16 Now incomes one of my favorite character actors, especially when he's playing a villain Hugo Weaving. He shows up as the inspector not really a villain in this case, but he is an antagonist. Weaving is just basically doing Agent Smith from the matrix here but he's doing like Agent Smith of Scotland Yard basically, it's pretty much the same performance. He goes to the manor to question Lawrence about the going the wolfy goings on. You know, Hopkins is sort of like gatekeeping but Larry's like no, go ahead, let them in. I'll talk to them. So they have the sort of scene in a in the park. Where we even starts off by saying, you know, I've been following your acting career, Mr. Anderson, and you know, starts off sort of ingratiating himself, and then the questioning becomes more pointed. You know, he's bringing up Larry's time in the asylum, and then he brings up how, oh, he's an actor, so maybe he's playing another role, you know, or, you know, this implication that, uh, you know, an actor would be more, you know, likely to be a murderer. And, you know, I think that's when Larry sort of needles him about not catching jack the Ripper.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:38 Yeah, but he's no, he's no Van Helsing from when actually when Anthony Hopkins played Van Helsing, he did bring a little bit more craziness to the role where it's like, everyone's kind of stuffy in this movie, and I feel like this would have been the opportunity for him to bump it up a notch and be like, a little bit different than this like stuffy straightlaced Scotland Yard guy, you know, in Anthony Hopkins, Van Helsing literally humps, Billy Campbell in Dracula, you know, and it's like, Yeah, he plays him totally crazy. And I feel like this movie could have used a little bit more like passionate melodrama over the top, you know, acting just to just to make it more a little bit entertaining. Yeah. Jen, like you're saying like, Alright, so if Benicio is, is a mopey guy who's like, all inward and whatever, you need something to balance that out. Like there needs to be a little bit of Yeah, agree. You know that other flavor?

Unknown Speaker 1:01:29 Yeah. And there's definitely no performance in this that goes, it's sort of in the crazy direction of, of Anthony Hopkins, and Dracula, or of Gary Oldman, and Dracula. Yeah, nobody's nobody's boring it on to that level. The movie could have benefited from a little more. Hey, agreed. Then now then there's some more hallucinations outside. There's another scene with Glenn, where he teaches her how to skip stones. Were you guys swept into the romance of this?

Unknown Speaker 1:01:59 Honestly, that's the one moment that they actually have that I feel like feels human. And I was like, I guess that's it. They're in love. That's it. That's all we get.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:07 That's all it takes Chris. That's all it takes.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:11 Stones a love that will stand the test of time, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:15 Oh, I think I might be skipping ahead. But there's that other moment where he she says something to him and then there's a big close up of her lips and he's just like losing control because she's so sexy and alluring and yeah, I feel like that's the one deep moment of sexuality in the movie that I feel like could have been threaded throughout the entire thing. Everybody is just driven crazy because of because they're Woolfson you know, tie it to sexuality and then this whole thing that peeked out for a moment there maybe that was from Roman x you know idea but like they didn't really go go there with it. It's just like this odd one moment where it's like oh, I got to get away from you Emily because you know you're driving me crazy.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:56 He sends her away again Yeah, right that point

Unknown Speaker 1:03:00 go skip some rocks.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:03 But no, he has like yeah, I think that is in the moment, Chris because it's like we're getting his Wolfie hearing and then I think he's like Wolfie horniness

Unknown Speaker 1:03:12 with it's, it's it's very, it's just a few See, it's like a another scene. Okay, it's right. It's right around that area. It's a different scene, but

Unknown Speaker 1:03:20 it's close by where he's like, yes, zooming in on her like her pouty lips and like, kind of, I think maybe even like her chest area or something like her neck

Unknown Speaker 1:03:28 or something. He's like, like the nape of her neck. And he's like, looking at her pulse.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:32 Yes. That's the point of the movie, as Anthony Hopkins will later say is like, it's so good to be the wolf. Let the wolf free. Like, you know, that should have been been nice to struggle the entire time has been like, well, like, it feels good to be the wolf. But no, I can't I know, I can't but where's that touched on in a second? But, you know, I feel like if that's your thesis of the movie, that's the reason why the main bad guy loves being the wolf. And I feel like that's an interesting concept, you know, and they touched on that in what Emily's Hulk. He knows like, the craziest things I like when I Hulk out and yeah, so I feel like that could have been explored and brought to, you know, a satisfying the Matic point.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:13 I think he's got a complicated relationship with his wolf Enos because he's like, I think, you know, he would maybe if he didn't have such the past that he did and the family issues that he did, he might be able to lean into it more, but I think it's because of all this family stuff that's happened and like all this, like, you know, all the stuff that happened to him or whatever, he doesn't really get to enjoy being a wolf. Like we just get, because usually I feel like with the wolf, man, there's usually some enjoyment and then there's remorse. Afterwards, you know, like when they come back down or whatever, it's like going on a bedroom, you know? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:50 But it's definitely while it's on and it's always been a sort of metaphor used in at least in movies. It's often been a metaphor for alcoholism. Yeah. You know drug addiction beat yeah yeah right and I think to Chris's point like a probably would have been strengthened better if we got some sense of being you know for for beneath CEOs care we get it from Hopkins but oh yeah like from beneath to his character that this is can be fun and exciting and exhilarating and you know you get a rush out of becoming this monster and killing

Unknown Speaker 1:05:26 I don't think he allows himself to have that

Unknown Speaker 1:05:29 so you know the villagers are sort of you know gathering up in there you know they've they they think they know what's going on here and they want to take Larry in they have this really creepy priest with them. They show up at the the manor we see them sort of in montage making silver bullets and stuff. We see that the full moon is coming so we know that you know, Larry is gonna wolf out soon. We get a quick sort of scene with Hugo Weaving at the time. Totally not buying into this werewolf shit. He keeps asking for a pint of bitter please.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:03 Right? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:05 And the lady in the pub is not having it because her husband was killed by the wolf. So she's like, you should be out there looking for this killer. And he says all he wants is his beer. Yeah. And yeah. And she's, she's like, so bent out of shape. He was like I you know, there, there are rules. I can't just hang around here, you know, rules that will keep us from a doggy dog world. And then he's just like, you know, where's my pint of better? I skipped today, the scene where the they show up at the manor with a priest. And Hopkins comes and fires at them with his his gun. And he's like, oh, sorry, I meant to hit you.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:41 He apologizes for missing. Right. It's pretty great. And it's sort of you know, you're it's a weird kind of moment, because he you know, you haven't really seen him sort of stick up for Larry. Yeah, but now he's like, he's sticking up for him. And you know, he's like, my men servant is hiding in the on the roof. And he's a crack shot. Yes. But he's not really there. Seek is not on the roof. It's a bluff. Right.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:03 And that's when he says to Larry, he's like, that's what he says. He goes, you're not the only actor in the family.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:09 Yeah. So it does pay off. It does pay off. So

Unknown Speaker 1:07:13 yeah, basically, we're all just heading towards Larry turning into the Wolf Man, which is what we sort of been waiting for. Basically, dad knows it's coming and he lures Larry out to the family mausoleum. He's got it all set up with candles and everything. And you know, the mom's sarcophagus is there, which is a pretty sweet sarcophagus. Later in a hallucination, we see it sort of, you know, it's this carved marble thing and we see it move and say something to me. It's

Unknown Speaker 1:07:42 technically a wife Kane, isn't it? Kind of Yeah, keep

Unknown Speaker 1:07:46 that's where he keeps his wife. Every good wife deserves a mausoleum. That's right. Anyway, so you know, they go down into the crypt, and we find out that and this is a little confusing, because he like closes a cage door. And you think that he's the dad is going to lock him in? Mm hmm. But I think it's just to separate them like he doesn't we don't see Larry breaking out of anything, so he's not locked in there.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:14 Oh, it's because he's gonna turn into a werewolf too. Yeah, right. That's where that's where he goes all the time to keep everyone safe, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:08:22 Yes, right. Yes. But usually thing has to come in a lot. I think he gets he has to lock it from the outside.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:28 Yes. That's you know, that's what he says is saying locks me he says that later. He says Singh locks me in every time I change. But you know, I don't want to be locked in anymore. The wolf must must outright and so it's just a little the way it's sort of blocked is a kind of confused, confusing to me, because we see him close a cage kind of door between them. But neither of them is actually trapped in there. Because then Larry starts to change. We get the first real werewolf transformation that we see. It's good. It's see again, it's very CG. You know, and I know I from what I know about the movie about the production. Originally they wanted to do practical transformations and Rick Baker was really excited to do that. But because Roman EC left under such short notice, Joe Johnston didn't feel he had the time and you know, I remember people who were fans of Wolf Man having a lot of problem with that at the time. Let's do CG needs to be needs to be practical and I mean, I agree it would have been better if it had been practical but

Unknown Speaker 1:09:43 absolutely i mean that's that's your money shot right there. That's why people come to see the movie is to see you know, the transformation and if then to that if you're going to make the Wolf Man update you got to do I'm not saying it shouldn't have been maybe it should have been a mix of CG and yeah and practical, but they should have, you know, it's like, oh, I don't have time to do that. Well then don't do the movie. Yeah. Like, I feel like that's, that's an important section of the movies is the transformation. Right? And if you can't be, you know, American Werewolf in London, right, then why bother

Unknown Speaker 1:10:14 here? Yeah, yeah, I get it, I get why it happened. It is a disappointment. And if they had pulled off something really spectacular, it would have been a selling point for the move. Yeah, yes. But, you know, and, and this is, you know, key. This is pertinent to the point of this podcast, I think, you know, the transformation was shown a lot in the trailers. And I think, you know, it was very clear from the trailers that it was CG, and I think that that turned a lot of people off. Yeah, they saw that and they were like, yeah, just looks like a CG mess.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:47 I'll give you the moaning sounds so painful, like waves like,

Unknown Speaker 1:10:52 just like, God Damn, that sounds painful, man. Like,

Unknown Speaker 1:10:56 he's bringing it there, Chris. He's bringing it. He's coming alive.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:01 And I and I like the things that they focus on in the transformation. I like they show his hand getting all gnarly. Yeah, they show his like, leg getting bent back like a wolf. scenary. Yeah. So it's like, I feel like they knew what to focus on.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:18 They just write the concepts there. Yeah, the

Unknown Speaker 1:11:20 concept was there. They just you didn't have the time to execute it in the way that would have been the most effective.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:27 And along with what Chris said, with the moaning I think the sound was really good for the transformation, too. There's a lot of the like the crack, you know, here the bone. Yeah, it's gross. And then yeah, like, I always love like, when the feet come out, like the shoes and stuff to like, just everything just busting out and just like, yeah, does gnarled and knuckled and, yeah, it's just a it would have been It's a shame. I agree with what you're both saying, if it could have been a mix of CG and practical, I think that would have really been been something that could have been a standout for the film, but, but I think also, yes, that's something that our fans want. But our fans also have, you know, set the bar high with like you're saying with like, American Werewolf in London, or the howling? Like you have, like, you know, these transformations. Can we talk about the way he looks though? Because, yeah, I think I think he looks great. And I know you love him to Sebastian because he looks like

Unknown Speaker 1:12:23 Hold on, though. When we first were watching it together. You said you didn't think that the the wolf man looked very good.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:31 I came around to it though. I came around to it. Well, because of

Unknown Speaker 1:12:35 why did you

Unknown Speaker 1:12:35 because because I think as we talked earlier about the effects, like there's certain times where it looks better than others. Like there's certain lighting, there's certain things like it just there's times where he looks better. there's times where he truly looks like our action figure, which is what I want him to look like, we have a wolf man action figure. And he looks I mean, I think he's identical to that. But then there was like, the first maybe it was the first shot of him. When we watched the theatrical version. I was just kind of like, I don't know. And it could also be just because like it was more of the the maybe the movement of him as well like being more like, like we said, like more superhero esque or something. I don't know, but later, I don't know. I grew to be like, Alright, no, I'm into this. Like, I like the way he looks now. But yes, you're right. In the beginning, I was like,

Unknown Speaker 1:13:26 Well, I mean, I brought it up. The reason why I brought it up and wanted you to restate your feelings on that is because you're not alone. There's a lot of people who don't like the look of it. I have friends in the horror community who weren't into the design, and I like the design the reason why I like the design is because it evokes the original Wolf Man. It's an update of the original Wolf Man. And it's also a sort of take on the Oliver read werewolf from

Unknown Speaker 1:13:57 Curse of the werewolf,

Unknown Speaker 1:13:58 right Curse of the werewolf the hammer werewolf movie it's sort of a combination of those two more the Oliver read werewolf and in his clothing,

Unknown Speaker 1:14:07 I love the clothing and for me that that kind of makes it I mean, I don't I'm not aware of you know, the various looks as you guys are but to me it feels like the correct way to update the classic werewolf you know, and when he's got bad vest and shirt on and just the the shape of his head and the way everything looks. Yes, it's, you're like, that's, that's perfect. You know that that? That's him?

Unknown Speaker 1:14:31 Yeah, I love that too. And it's that that sort of vest look is sort of similar to what Oliver Reed is wearing in the curse of the werewolf. Yeah, I love the costuming of it. I really like the look of it. I understand like at first glance it seems maybe a little awkward. But it works for me his he doesn't really have an extended snout like a lot of modern werewolves do it's sort of you know, more compact like the original Wolf Man.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:00 I think it's what I like about it.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:01 I like that too.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:02 Well, to me, there's a difference between just a werewolf and the wolf. Ah,

Unknown Speaker 1:15:06 wow. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 1:15:08 the Wolf Man looks more like a man. Yeah, he's a specific type of werewolf. He's

Unknown Speaker 1:15:14 right, man. You know, recently recently, I discovered I think I watched like on YouTube or something about special makeup effects for thriller, and they were mentioning how that is actually aware cat, right? Oh, because he's, you know, they got the long whiskers and it's a flat face as well. And I'm like, Oh, that's why that that stands out to me as well. Is that that? That look is very cool, too. And yeah, and I think I'm on your wavelength Sebastian, where I think it's cool. The design is always cooler when it's more man than wolf.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:46 Yeah. This is when we get the first Howl, which I think sounds pretty great. You know, who was involved in making the howl?

Unknown Speaker 1:15:54 I do. But I'll let you deliver x interior. No.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:58 You did the stuff for Dracula?

Unknown Speaker 1:16:00 No, it was David Lee Roth and Gene Simmons. The clap

Unknown Speaker 1:16:04 the two classiest people in the world. Yeah. I

Unknown Speaker 1:16:07 don't know. And you know, it's fitting that we're discussing this now because Eddie Van Halen just passed away the day before yesterday and was sad, really sad. super sad piece Eddie. So yeah, I mean, I don't know how much of David Lee Roth and Gene Simmons there is actually in the howl but they were apparently brought in to record some howling for the howl. So the villagers try to trap the Wolf Man with this like deer and that sort of dugout trap. But you know, it doesn't go well for them. One of the guys gets pulled into the trap and the Wolf Man messes him up pretty bad. There's some good slashing and gore

Unknown Speaker 1:16:49 we haven't talked about because I think this might notice is I don't know if this is the first one this might be the second one because there's there's definitely a couple throughout the film, the wonderful decapitations this film deliver? Yeah. And yeah, it definitely happens. I think it might happen also at the first Gypsy wolf out but it definitely happens during this time with the little pit or whatever. You totally the decapitation.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:13 No, it happens. One of the guys who is one of the river Yeah, no, he goes into like quicksand or something. Yes. Um, he's one of the guys. He's the guy in the Extended Cut that he throws the drink at

Unknown Speaker 1:17:25 that he has probably his beef with. Yes, yes. Yes. That's why I was talking about was so satisfactory because of now knowing what goes down in the pub. I'm like, Oh, that. That's why Paul had some meaning behind it.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:37 Yeah, that that guy runs into what looks like quicksand. And he gets stuck there and the Wolf Man, Wade's out to where he is and swipes off his head with a claw and it goes flying. And it's extremely satisfying. Yes, I really like this whole sequence. It's action packed and gory and fun. And this is basically why you come to a wolf man movie, in my opinion.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:02 Yeah. I mean, I always could use even more blood. Like when, you know, granted, there's a lot of killing and maiming. But like there's not a lot of splashing of blood like that's to nitpick. You know, I just would like a little bit more splashes

Unknown Speaker 1:18:17 more blood.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:18 Okay, so then we get the scene, but that's in every werewolf movie where the werewolf wakes up and the next day and he's all covered in blood and rags. He's a human again. I've all been there. Yeah, we've all been there. You know, he's sort of near the manor. I don't know. He's like out in the backyard. I don't know where he is. But he's

Unknown Speaker 1:18:36 inside a tree tree. He's He's in a tree like the trees like hollowed out and he's like, curled up in there.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:42 Yeah. And dad is there basically like laughing at him like, Oh, you did some terrible things.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:50 Yeah. reminded me of your two terrible Mariel

Unknown Speaker 1:18:57 these clearly delighting in the fact that like he's been on that Lawrence has been on a murder rampage.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:03 This movie had been more successful that you've done terrible things could have been like a classic line. Yeah, you know, if everybody knew this movie, people would be quoting that left and right, you know, after that, nyan that bachelor party you've done.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:17 But yeah, he basically dad basically gives him up to the villagers who knocks him out, then, you know, they they haul him to London to back to the old asylum. And you know, they've got the total cliche German doctor, clearly based on Freud. They put him in this chair, which is pretty amazing. I have no idea if this is based on anything real but they dunk him in a big pool of ice. And like what looks like an electric chair, but it's just an ice dunking chairs a

Unknown Speaker 1:19:47 great image though. Yeah, and like whoever Who cares if it works, it looks like straight up torture, but it looks so cool. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:19:54 we go back into sort of montage mode here which I'm not crazy about. It's you know, he's He's getting tortured. Like at one point he's got like a bit nice teeth and he's like, jabbering, like, I also think that we're supposed to pick up on the fact that time is passing here. Yeah. Which, Jen, I know you had a problem with it because you're like, there's this place is just got nothing but full moons.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:20 I said the same thing like they never show a not full moon. Like, here

Unknown Speaker 1:20:25 it is. I think the montage is are supposed to serve as a feeling of passing of time without like, you know, doing the cliche thing of showing like a calendar whipping by really sad. You know, I mean, it's

Unknown Speaker 1:20:38 a month goes by because he's got a turn at some point. And I believe that they're trying to set up the fact that they all do think that he's really legit crazy. Yes, because he's acting crazy. And so that you know, the payoff later will be everyone thinks he's crazy. And then he's not aware. Well, yes,

Unknown Speaker 1:20:53 Hopkins shows up to hang around his cell as Lawrence is sort of straitjacketed. And then we get the story of, you know, how dad became a werewolf, which was he was, you know, out in the Himalayas or something. And he went to a cave, and the Gollum werewolf boy was in the cave. And that werewolf boy bit him and that's, you know, how he became a werewolf. If you're wondering why that's the story. It is similar to the setup of the story in werewolf of London. The original werewolf movie from that was actually before the Wolf Man

Unknown Speaker 1:21:35 sounds vaguely racist.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:36 Yeah, probably.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:38 There's some feral Asian kid man. Goddamnit.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:42 Yeah, it was racist. We'll just assume it's racist if it's old. And this is when we get confirmation in a flashback that dad killed mom as a werewolf. which is surprising to no one. And, you know, we get to look at the Anthony Hopkins werewolf and the Anthony Hopkins Wolf, man, it's it's pretty good. It looks more like it's CG than makeup to me. I you know, it's just for a flash. So who knows? My guess is probably Anthony Hopkins was not keen to put on tons of makeup. So he's probably you know, they probably had to do it like that, because he wouldn't go for it.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:24 Well, it's also where we learn that this is when Larry says to dad, like you should just kill yourself. And he's like, I consider that but life is too good.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:34 Yeah. I like I like Wilson is awesome. Yeah, yeah. But he but he gives Larry a straight razor and it's like, yeah, kill yourself. And then, you know, so yeah, he gives Larry the razor and then he we see Hopkins leaving this the Siloam. And he's he's jamming down on the harmonica as he walks out.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:56 Yeah, I said to even said to you, I was like, Who is playing the harmonica in this asylum? And you're like, that's Hopkins like he's just like do to do on the little mouth harp going down the

Unknown Speaker 1:23:08 hallway. A little john popper?

Unknown Speaker 1:23:13 Yeah, the character is musical. He's always playing the piano. And I know that Anthony Hopkins always plays the piano and like, anytime he can put it in it, put it into a movie, you know, he even writes the the pieces and then so he'll play some noodle on the piano and there'll be like, leave it in. What is that? He's like, I wrote that. And then so though, he does that a lot, because he's pretty accomplished pianist. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 1:23:37 cool. So that's totally cool. Okay, yeah. Nice. All right, cool. Well, that's good to know. Then we go on to what may be the best scene in the movie, which is the very ill advised nighttime asylum lecture. I mean, at first I'm like, why are they doing it this this at night, but then the doctor says like, I'm doing this to show you He won't turn into a werewolf. Yeah. Oh, good. But yeah, so they're in like a you know, theater, operating theater or whatever. And they will and Bernice CEO, and he's in you know, like, it's strapped down chair. It definitely at this point, we're veering into sort of dark comedy, because the the doctor is, you know, lecturing with his back turn to Benicio about how he's not going to turn into a werewolf and how he's just crazy. And Benicio is like, you need to go get out of here. I'll kill all of you. And and nobody's listening. And then so the doctor is lecturing, and he starts to change behind him. And the guys in the theater are like pointing like like, Look, look behind you. And he just keeps talking. Oh, good. It's pretty funny.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:51 Best don't The only thing that bothers me is that he doesn't kill everyone. I want everybody in that room that it should have been a pile of bodies, man, like That was the only minor quibble with that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. All those fuck all those guys.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:06 Yeah, I mean yeah, they did promise everyone would die and not everyone died

Unknown Speaker 1:25:10 and the transformation they do like show his like jaw like snapping and like eath rolling into weird place. Yeah, that was cool it like oh we'll save some weird transformation stuff for this time so that you know you see different anatomy changing

Unknown Speaker 1:25:26 yeah and the first transformation is done in that crypt and it's sort of dark and there's candlelight so you know yeah this is like bright You know, this is a brightly lit Yeah, nothing operating theater and he's, you know, they're really showing you the change.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:40 I think that change looks really good here. Actually, I was I was really like, I was super super into this and just really ready for Larry to fuck everybody up. And it just it looked so much the change. I just I liked it so much better in this in this scene. And I don't know if it was pot, you know, partially because it was leading up to something it was going to be very satisfying. You knew it was going to be

Unknown Speaker 1:26:02 just the sweetest plum. It's all about the scene and wanting to see him go apeshit on all these doctors it's it's a lot of fun. There's a funny moment where one of the one of the doctors is trying to get out and the guy's at the door and another guy's in the door and not letting him out. And meanwhile, Larry's carving through people left and right.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:25 The guy at the door is like like mopping the floors. Yes. Like I think it's locked. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:33 The most it's not my job.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:35 There's some like slightly poor wirework here where you can tell like when he actually throws the the main doctor out the window. Yeah. And it's just like there's no way to him at all. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:26:47 the gravity

Unknown Speaker 1:26:48 so it's out the window instead of actually being thrown. But you know, it's nitpicky, you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:26:54 it's this. It's the satisfying though. It's still all satisfying.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:57 Yes. Yeah. Oh, and I just love that one part where he I think he's got a big chunk of a guy in his mouth. Yeah. And he just he looks at it. That's when he spots the actual doctor. And then the piece of meat just drops and he's like raw.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:11 It looks like a liver.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:12 Yeah. Is that is a great shot, like that is so good.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:16 And they throws the doctor out the window and he lands on the Oh, yeah, that spiked fence, you know, which is always good.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:23 skewered.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:24 Yeah, somebody skewered on a spiked iron rod fence is always a winning proposition. So Larry escapes from the asylum, he basically goes on sort of a rooftop chase scene. They have the seat, they have, you know, the sort of prerequisite scene where he like, gets on a gargoyle and howls at the moon. You know, it's an easy lay moment. But I'm an easy lay for gargoyle perches, pretty much like that. whenever it's in a movie, we get Hugo Weaving has clued in to this and he's sort of chasing him on ground while the Wolf Man is running across the rooftop, we get a really, you know, this sequence really sort of highlights this running thing where he's running, you know, along the roofs, and then he drops into the onto all fours and starts around all fours. Again, this moment feels to me kind of like a superhero movie moment, you know, because he's going from rooftop to rooftop, you know, and I can see why maybe some people you know, who are expecting a more sort of straightforward, grounded horror movie might not like this stuff, but I like big budget spectacle. And this is where the movie is sort of delivering on that

Unknown Speaker 1:28:45 for sure. Why Why would you have an issue with this just because it's too CG and too fantastical. It's just

Unknown Speaker 1:28:50 not a horror movie thing. It's you know, it's it's like a like I said, it's like a big budget, it's more of a sci fi or superhero thing

Unknown Speaker 1:28:59 because to him like jumping off of rooftops, or just to be like a big sort of animal loose because me isn't that what American Werewolf in London ends like that. So,

Unknown Speaker 1:29:09 right, but not done with $100 million in computer. Right, right. Right facts. Okay, I didn't

Unknown Speaker 1:29:15 have a problem with it. I was enjoying it. And I just was like,

Unknown Speaker 1:29:19 you're kind of you know, you're more of a horror fan than a sci fi or superhero movie fan. So like, I

Unknown Speaker 1:29:25 was okay with that. Okay, no, didn't bother me at all. No, I was just like, like, it's been like, it's, it builds up so much to this moment, where I kind of feel like, you know, I know we talked about earlier that, you know, Larry doesn't get to fully enjoy his wolfing. But I feel like for a minute here when he's like going all around London and do I mean, I think he might might be enjoying this rooftops for a minute, you know, like being able to, like okay, maybe this isn't all bad. You know, like there's, you know, the superhuman strength that he has. But yeah, I just, I mean, it's such a such a climax that it comes to With everything that happens at the asylum, and then he's just like, you know, he's just he's just going balls out. So I think they deliver. They

Unknown Speaker 1:30:09 there's a fun sort of little bookend to the scene where he sort of jumps down and he's in, you know, I don't know, Piccadilly Circus or something like that. A train, there's a train car that gets derailed, and it like runs over a dude while it's getting derailed. And you see the guy like, pretty great and falls over on its side, and it's full of people. And the Wolf Man like jumps on top of it. And he looks in through one side window, and there's a really cool shot of him, like looking in through the glass, and then breaks through the glass and like falls into the train car and then start slashing away at people really messing them up. I think the action is pretty well done. Could it be a little better, maybe. But I think for the most part, and this might actually be one area where Joe Johnston was a pretty good choice to come in. Because I don't imagine Mark Romanek would have really cared very much about these action sequences, Drew and Johnston does. I mean, he's not like known for being a great action director, but he's solid, you know, he did Jurassic Park three, which has some fun sequences. So you know, he comes from the Spielberg camp, so he knows what he's doing with action.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:19 And the action is not the sticking point here for sure.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:23 Lawrence goes on his werewolf bender. And he ends up under a bridge as we all have been after a bender by London Bridge, in fact, and he drinks some wakes up in the morning and he's back in his tattered bloody clothes. And he like drinks some really gross water from a puddle. And then we learned that Gwen apparently owns an antique shop or something in London, which is not set up at all. No, but she's she's going to her open up her store for the day. And Larry has I guess, figured out I mean, it says her name on the if you look at the signage on her store,

Unknown Speaker 1:32:06 wait, wait, is this where we learned that? That Mary Poppins and Wolf men are in the same universe?

Unknown Speaker 1:32:10 God? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:13 Yeah, so she goes into her antique store that hasn't been set up. And he's like sleeping under something in their table or some table. And then, you know, they have a scene, he tells her that he knows his father was the original werewolf and she wants to help him. We get more sort of romance moments here, which don't necessarily

Unknown Speaker 1:32:36 that's in quotes, romance, right? No, but

Unknown Speaker 1:32:39 we get it, we get a kiss here.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:41 All right. It was so hot, I forgot.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:45 Anyway, Hugo Weaving shows up and, you know, he shows her the newspaper drawings of the wolf carnage. And, you know, he basically detains her, you know, they figure out that Larry's been in there and they they think he's hiding behind a mirror. And he like shoots the mirror and, but behind the mirrors like this pan's statue, like a statue of the god Pan. I'm a pan fan. Not a Peter Pan fan

Unknown Speaker 1:33:13 and pan Greek god Pan, one half goat the other half man.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:19 Yeah, so yeah, the mirror gag is cool. In the and now in the unrated cut. That's where we get the scene of Larry walking around London. And there's a paper boy selling papers like Wolf Man kills everyone. And Larry buys all the papers from him sort of weird comedic moment that doesn't really fit but you know, and we get this montage as both of them make their way back to the Blackmore mansion, cheese on a train and a horse and stuff. But poor Larry's, he's just hoofing it the whole way. That's right. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:55 I'm in through the Moore's looking very for Lorne.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:58 Yeah. And there's, there's like a solid five to 10 shots of him, depending on which version you watch it like just walking. If they didn't do that, everybody like would it just work? could look. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:34:12 yeah. You can't when Gwen is trying to find Geraldine Chaplin's gypsy woman. So she does eventually meet her in a barn. And you know, there's this whole sort of scene where she's talking about how much you know, she wants to save him. And it's kind of like uncomfortably anti feminist sort of moment. You know, where it's like I can change him that kind of thing. Like I can change the abusive boyfriend, right oh man, which was a little uncomfortable there.

Unknown Speaker 1:34:46 Also at this time, though, there's there's a total souped up scene going on with Hugo Weaving. Yes, it right in the carriage and loading up a silver bullets. Yeah, he's a believer now.

Unknown Speaker 1:34:57 Yes, he's turned turned a corner on This Wolf Man, this werewolf business and he's ready to like lay down some silver bullets.

Unknown Speaker 1:35:04 Wouldn't all of London have turned believers after a giant Wolf Man just came marauding like in Piccadilly square. I mean come on what's going on fake

Unknown Speaker 1:35:14 fake news Chris fake news.

Unknown Speaker 1:35:18 There were crazy urban myths going around London in that period there is a famous sort of monster called Spring Heeled jack that would like supposedly come jumping down from roofs and like attack people and then jump away into another roof doing impossible things so that kind of stuff actually happened in London and there was never any explanation for it. I'm sure I'm in all parts of the world but they're famous stories from London of crazy crazy stuff like that so so Larry makes it back to the manor just in time for the full moon but poor Kim fail seek manservant is dead. He's a corpse sort of hanging on the wall. So I guess we're to assume that a pop killed him didn't have any more use for me. Yeah, that was

Unknown Speaker 1:36:08 why I wanted to see what happened to him I mean what

Unknown Speaker 1:36:11 well they sort of set him up as a badass so

Unknown Speaker 1:36:14 yeah, he's a great shot and then like way he's just dead

Unknown Speaker 1:36:18 it is off screen and we don't get I mean we can only assume that it you know it was dad we'll find out when he did it you know Yeah, but it's Yeah, he deserved he deserved it on string screen kill if he was going to

Unknown Speaker 1:36:32 die He Larry gets the key off of the dead seek that unlocks his case full of his trunk full of silver bullets. The dog who we haven't mentioned I forget his name but he gets a nice sort of a big dog he gets a nice jumpscare here and one thing I appreciated there's a shit is about to go down in the manner but Larry lets the dog out Yeah, he lets him go

Unknown Speaker 1:36:57 this the wolf and also let the deer go at 1.2 and chase a man instead of a deer yeah

Unknown Speaker 1:37:02 the deer with when they first try to trap him with the deer he doesn't kill the dog

Unknown Speaker 1:37:06 is Samson By the way, Sam Samson Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:09 Nice. Larry. Here's dad in the parlor playing the piano laying it with bloody fingers. Yes. Little shot. Very Yes. It's the Sikhs blood on his fingers. I don't know. Somebody's blood.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:20 Well, there's a there's a dead guy on like the chair.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:23 All right. It's the it's like the inspectors pal.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:26 You go weavings right hand guy. Yeah, man. We get sort of Hopkins doing the supervillain speech. It's pretty great Hopkins ham. So yeah, they they kind of have their big confrontation moment. Hopkin hits him with the cane that point it's a little bit repetitive just because I feel like we already kind of got the supervillain speech from dad at the asylum and we're just kind of getting more of that Hopkins starts throwing shit around and this is I love

Unknown Speaker 1:37:54 when he throws that chair it's so badass

Unknown Speaker 1:37:57 but but it's totally what you were saying where the wire work is kind of like suspect like it just kind of flying off

Unknown Speaker 1:38:04 but Hopkins man just like the look on his face and the way he's so nonchalantly does it it's ridiculous but awesome at the same time

Unknown Speaker 1:38:11 I didn't I didn't have an issue with any like I just like buy in that these like wolf dudes have all the strings in the world so like anything is gonna be like just like nothing you know? It's like no, I like it in concept it's

Unknown Speaker 1:38:23 just like technically if you're if you're really paying attention to it yes, it looks a little like somebody yanking a wire and pulling a yeah pulling a piece of furniture off exactly right. So they both wolf out and they do the thing where they like charge at each other and like smash chests to definitely a host matrix C type of werewolf wire fight for for a minute, and it ends with Larry. decapitating dad just great good decapitation, it's you know kind of CG looking but it's it's a pretty good death. And doesn't he doesn't his head like fly into the fireplace?

Unknown Speaker 1:39:05 I know he kicks

Unknown Speaker 1:39:06 him into the fireplace okay yeah, he

Unknown Speaker 1:39:08 kicks him to the fireplace right but

Unknown Speaker 1:39:10 the head actually we see the head kind of de wolf Yeah, it starts like going back to dad but another thing about dad wolfing out and then having the big fight which I appreciated because I was able to differentiate as to who was who was the dad shirtless?

Unknown Speaker 1:39:26 Thankfully only as a werewolf Yeah, that's shirtless. So gwenan Hugo show up and yeah, the Wolf Man bites Hugo which is a setup for a sequel that'll never happen. I think they're you know, the sequel was gonna maybe be Hugo Weaving as inspector werewolf or whatever.

Unknown Speaker 1:39:46 I would have watched that.

Unknown Speaker 1:39:47 Yeah, me too. I totally would have watched that. We do get Hugo Weaving in Joe Johnston's next movie, Captain America because he plays the Red Skull. So I guess maybe they liked working together. Who knows. And you know, the manner burns down because that's what manners always have to do in our movies. The Wolf Man chases going out into the woods with the torch wielding villagers following after them because you got to have that universal monster movie. You know, the woods look cool. She's sort of hiding behind some trees and there's lots of fog. And he sort of, you know, chasing, chasing, you see him in the background. He chases or to the waterfall where they had that moment, but not the place where they skipped stones, the waterfall,

Unknown Speaker 1:40:31 where the where the brothers had there was a refuge

Unknown Speaker 1:40:33 refuge.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:35 Yes. He's sort of like, tackles or pushes her down to the ground. But she's like, No, me, you know, me good acting here from I mean, she's good. The whole movie. Oh, yeah. She's great, really good moment here, where she's sort of trying to convince him to kind of recognize who she is, even though he's in wearable form.

Unknown Speaker 1:40:55 I liked that. You could see her in his pupils, by the way that I thought it was. I mean, I know it's kind of hokey or whatever. But I appreciated that.

Unknown Speaker 1:41:02 Yeah, I mean, the whole thing is kind of hokey. But yeah, it's the scene you need to have, yes, the werewolf movie. villagers are coming, basically, you know, he's gonna kill her. But then he, she gets through to him, and then he, you know, he stops, then they hear the villagers coming. And then she shoots him because she's got a gun with her with silver bullets, presumably in it a little. I mean, I would have preferred the cane. But, I mean, why didn't she have the cane? And then, you know, pulled out the knife and stabbed him in the heart or something. And then he, you know, transforms back into Larry and dies in their arms. And they have this sort of, you know, sad, doomed love moment, which, you know, honestly, no one cares about.

Unknown Speaker 1:41:49 I cared. You care? Yeah, I did. Actually, I did. I did actually. Well, that that moment was like, I mean, it was because he, he like kind of he starts to after she shoots him, and then he kind of like turns over to a side. And then he kind of I think he grabs her arm, like a little, a little bit of a jumpscare. But then you can see he's coming back to being Larry. And then he says, that's when he was like, thank you. And he was like, it had to be this way. You know, it's like he was this, you know, now he's tortured guy and I don't know, I I actually didn't care.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:22 I cared. He dies, and Hugo shows up and we see that he's got the cane and you know, again, they're sort of I think it's sort of, you're supposed to sort of think, Oh, this this is he's going to be in the sequel. And then you know, they show the moon and there's more of Emily's voiceover and then we're out. And you know, we've got sort of horror movie style Wolf Man and credits, which are pretty cool. They're, you know, they're stylish and cool.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:50 I can't help but think of, you know, Dracula, where Amina chops Dracula's head off. And, you know, they're this sort of lovers souls that are always meant to be so that makes sense to me that, you know, she should be the one to kill them. But I just feel like they're trying to shoehorn that same story into this by by the Gypsy saying, it has to be someone who loved him. I'm like, Well, does she even say like, oh, for his soul to be fine, or I mean, like, what's the point of that? Like, would he have lived if anybody else shot him with silver bullets? Like, why does it have to be someone who loves him? It just it seems like they're just really forcing a story at this point.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:26 I think. I think they are sort of going to that. Well, they're, you know, I think there's figuring Hey, it worked for Dracula, you know, right. It'll work for the wolf. Man. I definitely think this movie is is trying to capture the magic of in some ways of that Coppola Dracula, that's definitely what it's aiming for. Right. I mean, some people hate the Cobo Dracula, so right. No, it's not like that movies universally loved either. Sure, sure. It's more people like it now than they used to. But I remember back in the day, nobody was hankering for more of that. Well, there's a lot of problems. You know, everybody was just like, Look, you know, sucked, you know, and like, actually, it's, it's not like it was that beloved at the time.

Unknown Speaker 1:44:08 It made money though. That's why they made so

Unknown Speaker 1:44:11 and this movie didn't. So on that note, you know, my sort of feelings about why this movie tanked. Like I said, I think that trailers unfortunately, by showing the CG transformation, I think turn some people off. I think that Benicio del Toro is not the kind of actor or leading man that brings in money, you know, like he's just not. If this had been Brad Pitt or somebody I think it would have probably stood a better chance even though like Benicio, and I know he was really passionate about doing this. I think that probably didn't help. And I think that, you know, when it came out, the reviews were pretty abysmal. And I think that is largely due to the sort of editing, I think that the editing is bad. And I think that sort of hurt the movie critically, I don't know if if they had released, the longer version in the theaters, if that would have been received any better probably wouldn't have been. Because I think like Chris fairly pointed out that I think a lot of the problems are in the script, unfortunately. Yeah. So you know, I don't think it was going to do that well with critics, either way, but if it had been more embraced by fans, then maybe there would have been some word of mouth and it wouldn't have tanked nearly as badly, but even a bigger sort of issue. And I think that we're seeing this with all of these universal these attempts at these universal monsters is that, I don't know if people care about them. You know, like, they've tried now with Wolf Man, they've tried with, you know, a new Dracula. They've tried with the mummy with Tom Cruise. And it's like, there, none of them are hitting it. It's too bad. Because obviously, I'm a fan. I love the universal monsters, but I just don't think that they're big money movies. Now, you know, the recent Invisible Man that just came out, did it smart, because it's a low budget movie. It's contemporary. It's not hinting on your love of the Invisible Man. To sell it. It's, it's just giving you a movie with an invisible man and calling it the Invisible Man. And it's like a, you know, whatever, a $5 million movie as opposed to 100 million dollar movie. So it's, you know, 150,

Unknown Speaker 1:46:32 right?

Unknown Speaker 1:46:34 Yeah, or whatever, if you bring the budgets of these things way down and do these sort of scaled back attempts at rebooting these series and do them, you know, in a modern setting, which isn't to my preference, because I like the cool Gothic setting, but you know, you could probably do Gothic for cheaper than 100 and 50 million How

Unknown Speaker 1:46:56 do you know how much it costs to make shape of water? Because that's, I mean, that's clearly got some creature going on.

Unknown Speaker 1:47:02 Yeah, I mean, but it was probably, you know, 50 million or something, but the shape of water wallet had a lot of design and really rich design and everything. It didn't have a lot of action. The action is what costs a lot of money. Yeah, for a lot of these things, you can have something look great and have it be period and stuff but as long as you're not throwing in like massive action sequences, you know, you're not going to reach that hundred million dollar mark or whatever.

Unknown Speaker 1:47:31 But also how much did Anthony Hopkins get walk away with here? I feel like he you know, he was commanding some money

Unknown Speaker 1:47:39 the costs were high you know, and I think something like shape of water, though it's not like cheap it's not you know, Michael Shannon isn't gonna demand $50 billion

Unknown Speaker 1:47:51 right felt like they weren't holding back on the budget on anything here. I feel like they were just like open the floodgates and just make the best movie we can and

Unknown Speaker 1:48:02 there's a lot of good things here though. I like it you know there was the It looks good like I mean it's just it's it's kind of it's it's a bummer and I you know I would love to see the the universal monsters live on I haven't seen an attempted a creature film and that's why I was thinking of shaper water but now I don't know it's it's it's it's weird because like I said, in the beginning my first watch I was kind of ambivalent about the whole thing and then watching closely, the theatrical and the unrated version. I just came to like to film a lot more

Unknown Speaker 1:48:39 Yeah, I think if you were to see this bar if you were to see this movie, you know at a bar with the sound off you'd probably be like this movie looks incredible. Oh my god the Wolf Man Anthony Hopkins is in this Emily Blunt you think this is the greatest movie and then you'd go home rented watch it with the sound and go wait this movie sucks like what what happened? You know because the production design the cinematography all there so so many of the elements are right but then the crucial elements like the story the editing and the direction fail and that's it's kind of like right down the middle where you got half good half bad and then it just doesn't come together and knowing that you know every everybody it went forward with last minute director change will pull the rug out from any production I think so. Just look at solo or and you know, like I mean, like they brought it into port it's not a terrible movie. I you know, it was watchable.

Unknown Speaker 1:49:39 You mean the Wolf Man or

Unknown Speaker 1:49:40 the wolf? No, the wolf sorry the Wolf Man was watchable and is a fine enough movie but especially with the watching the Extended Cut was a bit of a drag.

Unknown Speaker 1:49:50 So you prefer the you prefer I prefer

Unknown Speaker 1:49:52 the theatrical cut because it just gets to the point, you know, gets to the gore and gets to the but I understand why you would watch the Extended Cut, if you were just you want to luxuriate in the feel of the movie because the feel of the movie is, is good, you know, they got the gothic horror thing, you know, we've gone over it and yeah, I just I think that it's just too boring. And they needed to add some more interesting twists and add a little bit more, you know, modern lies juice to it, yeah, in order to in order to make it stand out.

Unknown Speaker 1:50:23 And then also, to piggyback on that Chris was, you know, I feel like, because, and you brought this up to Sebastian, it's like, Who is it really for? Because, like you said, it's not, like, there's elements of it that aren't something that a horror fan is going to really be into, you know, because of more of the action type. Like, the sequences and it's just, I don't know, I didn't I don't know if it was really defined for a person, so or it could have become like, I had a cult following. He other than, you know, having like, the basis of being the Wolf Man, but the actual film didn't have like that thing that it's like, oh, you know, this is what horror fans like, loves. I mean, you kind of have that because you love the way he looks. But like, if if, you know, if, like we said earlier, if like the transformation could have been kick ass, then like, that would have been something that people were talking about, you know, if it would have been at the transformation, or, like, if there would have been some real hamming it up, like, we would have got like full Hopkins, like, you know, being really Machiavellian, like over the top or something like that. there needed to be something that had people talking.

Unknown Speaker 1:51:40 Well, I think your point of, you know, who is this for? It's not quite, you know, hitting the target for horror fans. It's not quite hitting the target, because there's too much sort of slow drama scenes. Exactly. Or for fans of big spectacle action movies, or sci fi or whatever stuff with big money and big production designs not really hitting that target. And it's not really hitting, it's definitely not hitting the target for people who are into period dramas. If that's what you're going for, so ivory,

Unknown Speaker 1:52:17 it is not

Unknown Speaker 1:52:18 I think, you know, it's, you know, yes. They didn't know who they were making this for, which I think is going to be a theme that we find a lot in this podcast.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:29 They made their made it for podcasters in 2020

Unknown Speaker 1:52:33 to dissect

Unknown Speaker 1:52:35 this will be great for them.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:37 That's who this is made for. All right, well, um, that wraps up our discussion of the 2010. Wolf Man, thank you for joining me. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:52:47 yeah, thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:01 That about does it today for Tentpole Trauma. If you like what you heard, check out our social media presence on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Just look for Tentpole Trauma. That was easy, wasn't it? If you like us, hit subscribe, and leave us a sterling review on iTunes. If you dare. If you really like us, head over to patreon.com and get involved in one of our fabulous tiers. You'll be glad you did. Want to communicate with Tentpole Trauma, send an email to Tentpole [email protected] we'd love to hear from you. And who knows, one day you may even get your email read on one of our shows. Well, thanks for listening, and we'll see you real soon.

#movie #unrated version #anthony hopkins #theatrical version #wolf #dracula #wolfman #emily blunt #benecio del toro #frankenstein #universal monsters

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snowe-zolynn-rogers · 3 years

Text

Pairings: Nikolai x Sigma (Pre-Relationship)

Word Count: 3,326 Words

Summary: Nikolai doesn't know how to stick up for himself while working for Tonan.

Warnings: Age Regression, Hurt/Comfort, Harassment Mention, Panic Mention, Assault Mention, Immunodeficient Character, Panic Attack Mention, Death Mention, Food Mention, let me know if I should tag anything else.

BSD Little Oneshots: Chapter 4: Little!Nikolai x Caregiver!Sigma

The wig was too tight today. Nikolai supposed he should have loosened it after cleaning it again, but he'd had barely any time this morning to get dressed, let alone think about fixing his disguise.

He hated this job, he did, even if it was for his Dostoy. Was the job truly worth being abused by his boss? It felt too oddly much like being shown off at the circus when Tonan sometimes decided he'd like to show off his 'pretty secretary' to other people.

His headspace was far too cloudy today staring at mindless paperwork and words he couldn't even make out anymore and glasses that were hurting his head more. He took said glasses off to rub at his eyes, feeling hands on his shoulders that went down over his chest.

He looked up at that, finding Tonan there and he smiled for him regardless. He'd done so well appearing professional around him, despite the very blatant workplace harassment. But he couldn't really do anything about that, now could he? He needed to go with the plan that Fyodor had set into motion already.

"Hello, Sir!" Tonan didn't respond, he assumed it was the taking off of his glasses. He never had before, he knew. They were something practically useless but did well hiding his blind eye from being noticed, allowing that to be overlooked.

"My head just hurts a bit. Paperwork, you know. It's no problem, Sir." He explained, trying to quell his boss' seeming worry over him.

"I don't care." He was confused at that. Even when he wasn't particularly working well, Tonan always cared. He'd assign more work at the least, like a punishment, but it just made it so Nikolai got paid more staying to work late nights.

"Sir-" He tried.

"Shut up." He felt hands on his waist, hauling him up, making him fumble and drop his glasses onto his desk, getting dragged into Tonan's private office. Maybe he had to speak to him in secret and his waist was his only leverage? But he was nervous, he was afraid.

He didn't like people touching him, especially not his waist, where his old ringmaster would forcefully drag him by to force him to move. And he certainly didn't like being pulled along by said waist, it made him nearly panic, which he held back knowing he had to keep his true identity properly hidden.

"Mister Tonan?" He asked, watching the official lock the door and pull the shades down. He was getting scared in this lonesome enclosed space. Is this how Sigma felt when he was held captive by human traffickers?

"Shut up, I waited four months for this." Tonan growled and he felt hands grabbing at unwanted places and he tried to push his hands off. He didn't have another way to stop him, he couldn't use his ability or his cover would be gone. The plan could go up in smoke. And this far in? He couldn't waste their meticulous plan now.

"Stop fighting." The booming voice made him freeze up, breath shaking as he stopped moving, eyes looking over him. "Good boy."

He felt sick, he wanted to struggle or fight back or use his ability, kill this man. But he couldn't do anything but wait until he was unceremoniously dumped onto the floor, like he was just a piece of trash, shaking and hiccups pouring from him.

"Get dressed, go work." He didn't move, respond, he couldn't. He couldn't even bring himself to fully acknowledge Tonan's presence. He was busy trying to breathe, trying to stop shaking.

"Listen to your orders!" He shook getting himself redressed and went back to work out at his desk. He couldn't focus, he couldn't breathe even, but he felt some weird autopilot come over him to make him work.

"See, I knew you'd like some stress relief with me. Go home if you're work's done, my good boy." His skin crawled at the pet name. He felt sick at it. But his work was done, so he got to go home early tonight.

He certainly didn't feel like he was at home, he felt somewhere a million miles away. He hid in his blankets, having scrubbed his skin raw with burning water. His black and white kitten, Vera, practically stalked him, sensing her owner's distress and trying to help solve it the best her tiny self could.

He knew he went to sleep crying, but he couldn't bear to acknowledge it, he couldn't even think about going back to work tomorrow. He'd cry more if he went in again, he knew, so he called out sick.

The first time he had, actually, even with his weak immune system, he hadn't called out yet from this job. Thankfully, the Rats and Angels meeting was the next day. He couldn't think of anything more mindless than sitting through a meeting, getting to spend time with his friends.

Getting to the meeting was silent, he didn't know how to act anymore, he just wanted to not be alone. They all seemed rather shocked to see him, they hadn't expected him, obviously. He didn't really expect to just go completely blank during the meeting.

"Nikolai? Thoughts, since you're here today." Ivan asked and Fyodor looked at him expectantly. Everyone was. He felt so overwhelmed already that he broke from the pressure, feeling tears unwillingly pour over his face, trying his best to hide them. He didn't want them, he didn't want them to think he was weak.

"Is he crying?" Fukuchi asked. He bit back the hiccups that threatened to come from his unsteady breaths. He didn't want to be called weak, he couldn't let them think he was weak. He took a deep breath, trying to even himself out.

"I'm sorry, I'm just sick." He tried to excuse himself, roughly wiping his face, trying to calm himself down for them.

"You don't just burst out crying from being sick, Nikolai." Sigma reminded him.

"Shut up!" He snapped at him, eyes glaring at the two-tone, who rolled his eyes at him and his outburst. "I'm sorry, I just..." He couldn't find a lie, he just couldn't, he was afraid they wouldn't believe him. Sigma looked at him both confused and shocked. Had he really never apologized to him for anything before?

"Does he have a fever or something?" Sigma asked, sitting forward like he was finally intrigued. Nikolai gasped at the hand on his forehead, shoving it away, not letting himself get touched.

"Don't." His voice was trembling, he knew his illusion of being fine had broken.

"Nikolai, what's wrong?" Fyodor asked.

"I can't go back there." He tried and failed to stop the sob that came out, he wanted to hide but he couldn't. He, of all people, knew his ability wasn't one to use when he was this emotional, he could hurt himself that way.

"Go back where?" Bram asked tiredly.

"I can't breathe." He clawed at his chest, trying to undo buttons he knew would have no effect on his difficulty breathing.

"Hey, look at me." Sigma suddenly insisted, hands having taken his own, pressing a hand against the bi-tone's chest. "Slowly, you're having a panic attack. Breathe with me. In through your nose, out through the mouth. You're safe here." He was never more grateful that Sigma wasn't one for humiliating others.

His breath shook, but he did his best to follow the instructions given, hand against Sigma's chest shaking still, hiccups dying down as Sigma tucked him up into his arms. They didn't feel suffocating or frighten him, he felt safer within the other man's arms for now. Perhaps he was just so tired his body wouldn't react.

"Kolya, what happened? Where can't you go back to?" Fyodor asked. He sounded to tense, almost like he was holding himself back from going on a rampage. He was frightened he would be the first one killed in said rampage.

"Tonan." He managed, wiping his face and looking at the Russian, eyes looking over him.

"What did he do? Is your cover broken?" Fukuchi asked.

"Got me alone. Called it stress relief. I was too scared to fight back." He could practically feel the dark aura his admission made settle over the meeting room.

"Tonan assaulted him." Fyodor sounded disgusted. He wanted to burst out crying at the sound. Dostoy probably thought he was disgusting, he felt his heart in his throat, sniffling like a child. He supposed it was rightful of him, someone who had no proper childhood to speak of, to cry like a misplaced child.

"It's okay now, Kolya." Sigma held him close. He felt an odd calmness settle over him, like someone just put clouds in his mind. He felt foggy but he felt fingers so calming in his hair from Sigma. He buried against him, he needed him there right now. He needed to have someone close.

"I'll kill him." Fyodor alerted everyone. Nikolai was too busy clung to Sigma to care what everyone was talking about.

"Kolya?" Sigma asked him, voice gentle and he looked up at him, confused about his own weirdly foggy headspace and Fyodor's disappearance when he looked for him.

"Where Dostoy?" He asked. His voice sounded tiny, it sounded weirdly childish, more than normal, at least. Sigma simply smiled at him.

"Dostoy went out for a minute. How old do you feel?" Sigma asked. He thought for a minute. His age? He was ripely twenty six, his birthday had been recent too. Sigma surely remembered his chaos of a birthday party.

But his mind kept feeding him the answer of two. Why did he feel two? What was happening? He felt scared, he didn't like this confusion. He held two shaky fingers for Sigma.

"Alright, little one. You're safe, it's okay now. Maybe, if you ask him, Pushkin will go get you some candy." Sigma offered. He lit up, he liked candy, he wanted candy. He giggled, nodding.

"Please!?" He chirped at Pushkin.

"Why does he need candy?" Pushkin asked.

"Get the candy and kids snacks. Now." Sigma's voice was commanding, staring at Pushkin with a very scary glare.

"Okay, okay, fine." Pushkin left and Nikolai smiled at Sigma, his thumb tucked into his mouth, other hand playing with Sigma's, poking his face as well, making the other begin smiling fondly again.

"He'll be dead by tomorrow midday." Fyodor announced as he came back in.

"No murder around the baby." Sigma requested.

"Baby?" Fyodor asked.

"Our Kolya has regressed from stress." Sigma informed the rest in the room finally.

"Ah. Truly, a cute baby." Fyodor smiled at him and Nikolai smiled back at him, giggles coming from him, he was happy.

"I don't know what candy or snacks he likes, I got some most of whatever the store had." Pushkin frantically put the bags of food on the table as he came back in. Sigma offered him a handful of whatever he managed to reach. Nikolai slowly, making sure he could, took one of the matcha kitkats.

"Kolya, that's unsanitary." Ivan let him know, handing him a pacifier. Where he got it, nobody knew, nobody probably ever would. But Nikolai took it nonetheless and he giddily settled against Sigma, eating his kitkat and giggling as Fyodor, instead of proceeding the meeting, simply put on a kids movie for him to watch and everyone else to relax to.

The next day going into work was stressful, but he was back to his adult mindset, working until about twenty minutes before his lunch break and he realized he hadn't brought his lunch in his scramble not to be late getting to work.

Once he'd figured out the plan Fyodor had to kill his boss today, he'd put a stop to that, he needed their plan to go through and killing Tonan now would destroy said plan. Tonan had just opened his office door and Nikolai dreaded his entry to the room when he saw a familiar face in very unfamiliar hair.

Sigma, all dressed up in a short light brown wig he'd thrown at him whilst picking the wig for his own disguise, having gone for this current black one instead. He carried a bag and a big smile, a pink visitor's pass clipped to his shirt.

"Mischa, love." Ah, his fake name. Sigma's voice was purposely soft to greet him. "You didn't bring lunch." He held out the bag for him. Tonan was out of his office now, watching him with a keen eye.

"Thank you, Nikita." He picked the first name that came to mind, he didn't care which one it was, but Sigma couldn't be called 'Sigma' in front of his boss.

"And who is this, Mischa?" Tonan asked at him nervously taking the bag from Sigma.

"Just his husband, sir. My Mischa forgot to bring lunch with him today, I hope you don't mind I showed up to bring it to him." Oh, so Sigma was playing the husband card to check on him while also bringing him the lunch he'd forgotten to bring.

"Thank you, honey." He smiled at him, garnering a smile back at him.

"You have a husband?" Tonan asked.

"Yes, sir, we've been married for six years now, going on seven. Sorry for the intrusion, but my husband is just worried about me since I was sick yesterday. You know my immune system isn't the best, so Nikita gets worried about me when I get sick." He assured his boss.

Sigma was clearly smiling at him having gotten his little devious plot to check on him and make sure Tonan didn't bother him. But the other was very obviously putting on a 'concerned husband' mask and he couldn't be prouder of him for acting so well. He assumed it was a good mask because he was actually worried about Nikolai's safety and truly was concerned.

"Ah, well, your husband is safe here, Nick was it? So you can give him his lunch and leave. I just got more paperwork sent over for him." Sigma didn't frown like he expected, surprisingly.

Nikolai smiled at Sigma, letting the other lean over his desk and kiss him goodbye. It didn't feel bad? He didn't hate it, he was soft, almost gentle with him. He broke into a big smile, but tried not to show his complete giddy to the two other men in his presence.

He could squeal over it later when he was at home with his kitten, Vera. He could gush to his kitten, who would simply run around with her zoomies and occasionally land on him to knead at his belly.

"Have a good day, dear." Sigma smiled against his lips, he felt like his heart was far too light for his liking, beating too quickly for it not to be a good thing.

"You too, darling." He smiled back, stealing a kiss back from Sigma, the first of several he knew he'd steal from him.

"I'll see you later, Mischa. Dimitri's making dinner for us to go on a double date with him and Vlad." He could only assume he meant Ivan and Fyodor by the names. He was happy to have him here.

"I love you." He knew saying it might be dangerous, but he liked it. He liked him and he wanted him to know.

"I love you too." Sigma's smile only got brighter. "I'll see you at home." Sigma kissed his forehead, leaving him rather giddy and very much awaiting getting home to his friends being there. Tonan huffed, leaning against his desk.

"You're not to tell your husband what we did the other day, Mischa." Tonan ordered. "I will destroy your life if you do. Your career and reputation will be gone, I assure you." Tonan tried to threaten.

"Sir, I don't plan to. But I'll have to quit if you plan to try that with me again. I have a husband, I love him, our marriage is happy. I can't be your secretary if you don't respect my marriage."

"If you're married, why don't you wear a ring?"

"It had to get cut off. Remember, I collapsed a month ago because I got sick? You were visiting Hong Kong with Mister Inoue? The doctor cut it off me. Nikita is working on getting me a new one." He lied through his teeth. But Tonan bought it, he supposed, by the lack of bite back he got.

"Fine, but never tell anyone of what we did. It was a one time thing and it was a mistake." He could have cried hearing that. On top of the high of getting to be romantic with Sigma, that felt like a relief. He didn't have to worry about being taken advantage of again.

"Now, go take lunch, your work will be here waiting for you to come back." Tonan ordered him. Clocking out for his hour lunch, the bag Sigma brought him in hand, he was borderline euphoric, near tears too actually. He spotted Sigma waiting for him and he hugged him tightly.

"On lunch?" Sigma asked.

"I'm going to cry." He alerted him, quickly getting them out of there. He sat them in a park, alone near the swing set and he leaned against Sigma's shoulder.

"He said he won't do it again, that it was a one time thing. Because I told him our marriage is happy. I did it, I stood up to him. I told him I'd quit if he kept trying." He felt a strong arm around him, he sniffled.

"Fyodor's with Vega. Ivan is making piroshki for dinner." Sigma reminded him. He laughed, wiping his face softer than he had the day before.

"I should eat, I only have an about fifty minutes left." He reminded them both. Looking through the bag and finding more matcha kitkats, popcorn, and cotton candy, with a container of varenyky, deruni, and olivier potato salad.

"Fyodor helped me make it. He said you might like having something feel like home, especially when you're stressed by work." Sigma smiled nervously.

"You made this?" He asked.

"Well, I tried. Fyodor did most of the work." He gave a laugh, rubbing his back as he wasted no time trying them.

"You're the best." He alerted him.

"So are you." Sigma smiled, watching the birds in the sky while he ate.

"Tell Fyodor he did good teaching you to cook." He requested.

"I will." Sigma was quiet, leaning against him.

"I do love you." He finally managed.

"I know, I really do love you too." He couldn't have smiled more.

"Then give me more kisses." He dragged him to face him, kissing him, laughing when Sigma rolled his eyes and agreed by kissing him. So he got a boyfriend out of the deal. Or were they husbands? After all, a man who 'died' six years ago and a man who was made only three years ago wouldn't be able to get legally married.

He supposed he should have forged certificates made for them anyway, they could just make a second set they'd keep with their own unofficial marriage. Maybe have a little wedding between them and their friends. He could force Fyodor to be the officiant, he supposed. And that thought made him laugh against Sigma's mouth, making the other break the kiss to question him.

"We could make Dostoy be our wedding officiant." He laughed out, which just led to them both laughing in a park at the ideas of their imaginary wedding, topped right off with Vera being a flower girl and Ivan in some hideous imaginary bridesmaid dress.

He didn't really mind being tied down to Sigma, it didn't feel like a cage. It felt more like flying, his heart sure was and he was sure Sigma felt happy too. He stole more kisses, because of course he would, they kept making his heart go fast, and he liked it.

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