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Thinking more about this gifset from ep 12x09, The Future, and just want to say a thing about what the word 'subtext' means, because it sometimes feels like what people think it means and what it actually means are not aligned.
So, as a starting point, subtext is defined as "the implied meaning or underlying message of a narrative that is not stated directly. It is the unexpressed thought, feeling, or emotional throughline that lies beneath the text."
The scene in the gifset linked above rife with subtext, and it's really very obvious. But first, there are several layers to the text. There's the visual: Sam looking concerned, Dean working on Cas's truck. There's also the context of the other events in the episode. In brief: Cas returns to the bunker after being out of touch for so long that Dean was worried, and angry with him; Cas tried to return the mixtape Dean gave him and Dean refused to accept it; Cas tells Dean he feels like he just keeps failing and Dean stresses that they need to work together; Cas 'plays him' and steals the Colt from under his pillow; Dean threatens to 'kick his feathered ass' but notably does not follow through. Right before this scene Dean throws Cas the keys to the Impala like it's a totally automatic for him to do (it's not!), only to have Kelly drive off with his Baby, and with Cas.
Here's the transcript:
Sam: How did this happen? Dean: ( Scoffs ) What? The lying? The Heaven plan? Or the fact that I'm working on this stupid truck? Sam: No, I mean, what's wrong with Cas? Dean: Well, he hasn't exactly had a banner year. I mean, think about it. Between Lucifer... (huffs out a breath) ...killing Billie, Ramiel, everything's been blowing up in his face... And he's so desperate for a win right now, he can't even see straight. Go ahead and give it a try. (Engine starts)
So the text of this scene is a combination of what we see, the context in the episode, the wider context of the show and relationships, and the lines.
Here are some examples of the subtext in this scene:
Dean has given some thought to how Cas is feeling.
Dean understands that people make questionable decisions when they are feeling down and defeated.
Dean has been there, and done that.
Dean sympathizes and empathizes with Cas.
Dean's frustrated, but Cas is still family to him.
Dean cares about Cas and wants to help him.
Sam does not quite know what to make of Cas's behavior.
Sam knows that Dean will know better than he does what is motivating Cas to do what he is doing.
Dean is emotionally closer to Cas than Sam is.
Sam relies on Dean's reaction to Cas's recent actions to know how to react himself.
Dean wants Sam to understand and sympathize with Cas, and not judge him too harshly.
There is much more one could add to this, but nothing I've said above is the least bit controversial; it's nothing more than a basic understanding of the content of the text, and it is very clearly communicated. Understanding these things in this scene is not rocket science, and everything I mentioned above is indisputably there as unspoken but clear emotional throughline in the text.
Subtext is not a mysterious puzzle, or a ghost floating around in a text that is invented out of the audience's desires, it is the actual emotional force and content of it. Ernest Hemingway is a long way from being my favourite writer, but he was, nevertheless, a heavyweight champion of subtext. He called it the 'iceberg theory,' or 'theory of omission': the text (words themselves) present only a small part of what is happening in it, but it is important to note that subtext is part of the text like the unseen part of an iceberg is part of an iceberg. A text without subtext would be very boring indeed, and would leave nothing for our minds to do when we process it. It's difficult to imagine any narrative text that doesn't have it.
I think that a lot of the time we say things like: I want Destiel to be explicit, not 'just subtext', but look at what is communicated via subtext above! Virtually everything that's important about the scene! Subtext is not imaginary thing the reader adds, it is part of the intent of the text, and Destiel is more explicit than this in the text in a lot of ways because it is the bones the text is hanging on -- it may not be spoken, but it is part of the structure of the text, and that's because of things like the way Ruby and Sam's story parallels Dean and Cas in season 4, or the way Dean's entire motivation in purgatory is Cas, and when he gets back from purgatory, he can think of little else, or the way Cas very obviously parallels Colette in the MOC arc and there is no Abel, or the entire widower arc, or the fact that main emotional arc of season 15 is Cas and Dean's break up, reconciliation, Cas's confession and finally Dean's despair and willingness to just die in the final episode. There's a lot of that that simply doesn't make any sense without Destiel as a structural element in the narrative.
There are so many ways in which the whole story is BUILT AROUND the assumption that Cas is Dean's strongest bond and partner, and around how important Cas is to Dean's emotional life, which is why I think it's often more accurate to say that Destiel is CONTEXT, because it's actually the reason why we understand the subtext of so many scenes and arcs in the story.
The fact that Cas loves Dean is not subtext, it is explicitly stated, and the fact that Dean loves Cas is not explictly stated, but it is present in the text at so many levels, that to call it 'just subtext' or imagine that it is some kind of unacknowledged, unavowed ghost in the narrative is not accurate. There is no way to understand a thing like Dean's devastated face at Castiel's pyre, or why Castiel leaving in season 15 feels like a divorce without it. Destiel is the emotional force of it, and moreover, it's the part of the iceberg you can't see because it's underwater, but it is fucking there, and IT WILL FUCK YOU UP.
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#the context of this exchange is that i was abt to cry on the bus thinking abt bobby nash dying#insane read by my friend row#supernatural#spn#castiel#destiel#<- yeah im tagging it. and you would too.
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Everytime I rewatch supernatural it reminds me that we really werent crazy about destiel. They were just THAT gay bro
Like wydm "When Castiel first layed a hand on you in hell he was lost!"
Wdym "i want you, cursed or not"
What else could "the last person who looked at me like that i got laid *wink*" even insinuate
Alls im saying is that if they didnt want us to think these two were gay they shouldnt have been saying shit like "i left but you didnt stop me"
#these are textbook romantic lines guys#out of context this sounds like a cannon love story#(and in context)#destiel#dean winchester#supernatural#spn#castiel#deancas#balls deep destiel#misha collins#jensen ackles#gaybos
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I just did some math and, if Cas is as old as the earth, his 12 years with Dean is equivalent to like 0.08 seconds in a human lifespan. That’s less than 1/10th of a second, shorter than the blink of an eye. He knew Dean for such a short amount of time compared to his entire existence and it was enough to fundamentally change everything about Cas and how he sees the world. That’s absolutely insane to me.
#if u don’t believe me its (12/4.5billion)*365*seconds per day#I originally thought it was the equivalent to like one afternoon to a human#and a lot can happen in an afternoon. Some of my most life changing events occurred over the span of a few hours.#of course it was still romantic that Cas changed because of Dean in such a short period of time but an afternoon isn't inconsequential#but in this context its mind-blowingly romantic and hopeless because that's like if a random bug bit me and immediately died#and I fell in love with that bug and changed my entire perception of the world because of my love for that bug#Can you imagine that?#dean x cas#destiel#dean winchester#cas#supernatural#castiel#deancas#casdean#spn#Like
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[Image ID: The Destiel confession meme edited so that Dean answers 'fag' to Cas' 'I love you'. /End ID]
#yes misha also said fag today but is promise the context excuses it#destiel meme#destiel news channel#destiel#supernatural#spn#misha collins
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she balls deep on my clear text til i y yo a ti
#ooc i look insane#in context it’s really not much better#sorry if this has been done before i’m just yappin#supernatural#spn#destiel#misha collins#jensen ackles#best of kip (apparently)
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trapping your lead in an attic with 65k real live bees which you then have to CGI in afterwards anyway is fine but having them be bisexual???? jail for a thousand years
#sjonnie.text#it's so so so funny that they could do ALL that but they couldnt have a man say i love you to another man in a romantic context#destiel#spn#supernatural#destielgate 2023
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Dean: Hey Sam, have you seen Cas, I-
Sam, drunk: Gay.
Dean: ...
Sam: I didn't stutter.
Dean: I didn't deny it?
Sam: Gay.
#context? nah#supernatural#dean winchester#castiel#sam winchester#destiel#the winchester brothers#Sam just sick of their shit#Openly repressed bi Dean for the win
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like real people do — hozier
#i saw hozier live and had a spiritual experience#so ofc it turned into destiel#cas came from heaven and dean came from hell#do you see my vision#all i could think about was ‘before those hands pulled me from the earth’#in the context of lazarus rising#and fuck man it hit#like real people do#hozier#castiel#dean winchester#destiel#deancas#spn#supernatural#pics and any lyrics i didn’t screenshot i got from pinterest#this might be#web weaving#i tried#em saying things
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i support ambiguous sexualities and gender-blind attraction within fanon. like i can read a fic with a pairing i don’t think would work in canon and 100% believe (or even love) it if it’s written well enough
#i said something like this in the tags of a reblog earlier this week but had to say it again in broader context#jegulus#i’m lookin at you#i hate that some people twist that to be a fetishization. they’re two great characters#why wouldn’t they love each other in this fictional context where the stars have aligned and it would absolutely make sense that they do?#crimson rivers#superbat#drarry#stony#stucky#merthur#marylily#i fully cannot think of more examples that i specifically don’t think would work in canon like my mind just wants to put ACTUAL ships i have#supercorp#destiel#shipping#ship#fandom#fanfiction#fanfic#fanart#fan#lgbt#lgbtqiap
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Nasty shipping inspiration/material
Let me just be upfront here. While I have been watching some Supernatural videos on Youtube and reading some fanfics for fun, I will never get into the SPN fandom the way I did for Star Wars and Harry Potter.
I know about the destiel stuff but I have no interest in people's shipping preferences. I just stroll the anti-destiel tag for laughs (and because Dean will never be gay or bi to me sorry).
But I wanted to point out this destiel post because I found it very tone deaf.
Like how can you write a post about destiel when Jensen looks absolutely disgusted in this photo. The dude is revolted. But what makes it even worse is that Misha is honestly creepy here. He's holding a cut-out version of Jensen and cupping the crotch area...with his costar literally right next to him! What the hell! I would feel so uncomfortable if a boy or anyone else did that kind of thing to me.
Call me crazy but I did not know one actor being grossed out and the other being a borderline pervert was prime shipping material. I have literally never seen this kind of thing for any other shippers I have interacted with on Tumblr. It's weird man.
#anti destiel#anti misha collins#anti misha#jensen ackles#supernatural#anti destiel stans#anti destihellers#who came up with this name? it's so funny#destihellers#maybe i am missing some context here?#feel free to correct me#anti bi!dean winchester#anti gay dean winchester
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I need people to understand how S&P (standards and practices) works in television and how much influence they have over what gets to stay IN an episode of a show and how the big time network execs are the ones holding the purse strings and making final decisions on a show's content, not the writers / showrunners / creatives involved.
So many creators have shared S&P notes over the years of the wild and nonsensical things networks wanted them to omit / change / forbid. Most famously on tumblr, I've seen it so many times, is the notes from Gravity Falls. But here's a post compiling a bunch of particularly bad ones from various networks too. Do you see the things they're asking to be changed / cut ?
Now imagine, anything you want to get into your show and actually air has to get through S&P and the network execs. A lot of creators have had to resort to underhanded methods. A lot of creators have had to relegate things to subtext and innuendo and scenes that are "open to interpretation" instead of explicit in meaning. Things have had to be coded and symbolized. And they're relying on their audience to be good readers, good at media literacy, to notice and get it. This stuff isn't the ramblings of conspiracy theorists, it's the true practices creatives have had to use to be able to tell diverse stories for ages. The Hays Code is pretty well known, it exists because of censorship. It was a way to symbolize certain things and get past censors.
Queercoding, in particular, has been used for ages in both visual media and literature do signal to queer audiences that yes, this character is one of us, but no, we can't be explicit about it because TPTB won't allow it. It's a wink-wink, nudge-nudge to those in the know. It's the deliberate use of certain queer imagery / clothing / mannerisms / phrases / references to other queer media / subtle glances and lingering touches. Things that offer plausible deniability and can be explained away or go unnoticed by straight audiences to get past those network censors. But that queer viewers WILL (hopefully) pick up on.
Because, unfortunately, still to this day, a lot of antiquated network execs don't think queer narratives are profitable. They don't think they'll appeal to general audiences, because that's what matters, whatever appeals to most of the audience demographic so they can keep watching and keep making the network more money. The networks don't care about telling good stories! Most of them are old white cishet business men, not creatives. They don't care about character arcs and what will make fans happy. They don't care about storytelling. What they care about is profit and they're basing their ideas of what's profitable on what they believe is the predominate target demographic, usually white cis heterosexual audiences.
So, imagine a show that started airing in the early 2000s. Imagine a show where the two main characters are based on two characters from a famous Beat Generation novel, where one of the characters is queer! based on a real like bisexual man! The creator is aware of this, most definitely. And sure, it's 2005, there's no way they were thinking of making that explicit about Dean in the text because it just wouldn't fly back then to have a main character be queer. But! it's made subtext. And there are nods to that queerness placed in the text. Things that are open to interpretation. Things that are drenched in metaphor (looking at you 1x06 Skin "I know I'm a freak" "maybe this thing was born human but was different...hated. Until he learned to become someone else.") Things that are blink-and-you-miss-it and left to plausible deniability (things like seemingly spending an hour in the men's bathroom, or always reacting a little vulnerable and awkward when you're clocked instead of laughing it off and making a homophobic joke abt it)
And then, years later there's a ship! It's popular and at first the writers aren't really seriously thinking about it but they'll throw the fans a bone here and there. Then, some writers do get on the destiel train and start actively writing scenes for them that are suggestive. And only a fraction of what they write actually makes it into the text. So many lines left on the cutting room floor: i love past you. i forgive you i love you. i lost cas and it damn near broke me. spread cas's ashes alone. of course i wanted you to stay. if cas were here. -- etc. Everything cut was not cut by the writers! Why would a writer write something to then sabotage their own story and cut it? No, these are things that didn't make it past the network. Somewhere a note was made maybe "too gay" or "don't feed the shippers" or simply "no destiel."
So, "no destiel." That's pretty clearly the message we got from the CW for years. "No destiel. Destiel will alienate our general audience. Two of our main characters being queer? And in a relationship? No way." So what can the pro-destiel creatives involved do, if the network is saying no? What can the writers do if most of their explicit destiel (or queer dean) lines / moments are getting cut? Relegate things to subtext. Make jokes that straight people can wave off but queer people can read into. Make costuming and set design choices that the hardcore fans who are already looking will notice while the general audience and the out-of-touch network execs won't blink and eye at (I'm looking at you Jerry and your lamps and disappearing second nightstands and your gay flamingo bar!)
And then, when the audience asks, "is destiel real? is this proof of destiel?" what can the creatives do but deny? Yes, it hurts, to be told "No no I don't know what you're talking about. There's no destiel in supernatural" a la "there is no war in Ba Sing Se" but! if the network said "no destiel!" and you and your creative team have been working to keep putting destiel in the subtext of the narrative in a way that will get past censors, you can't just go "Yes, actually, all that subtext and symbolism you're picking up, yea it's because destiel is actually in the narrative."
But, there's a BIG difference between actively putting queer themes and subtext into the narrative and then saying it's not there (but it is! and the audience sees it!) versus NOT putting any queer content into the text but SAYING it is there to entice queer fans to continue watching. The latter, is textbook queerbaiting. The former? Is not. The former is the tactics so many creatives have had to use for years, decades, centuries, to get past censorship and signal to those in the know that yea, characters like you are here, they exist in this story.
Were the spn writers perfect? No, absolutely not. And I don't think every instance of queer content was a secret signal. Some stuff, depending on the writer, might've been a period-typical gay joke. These writers are flawed. But it's no secret that there were pro-destiel writers in the writing room throughout the years, and that efforts were made to make it explicitly canon (the market research!)
So no, the writers weren't ever perfect or a homogeneous entity. But they definitely were fighting an uphill battle constantly for 15 yrs against S&P and network execs with antiquated ideas of what's profitable / appealing.
Spn even called out the networks before, on the show, using a silly example of complaints abt the lighting of the show and how dark the early seasons were. Brightening the later seasons wasn't a creative choice, but a network choice. And if the networks can complain abt and change something as trivial as the lighting of a show, they definitely are having a hand in influencing the content of the show, especially queer content.
Even in s15, (seasons fifteen!!!) Misha has said he worried Castiel's confession would not air. In 2020!!! And Jensen recorded that scene on his personal phone! Why? Sure, for the memories. But also, I do not doubt for a second that part of it was for insurance, should the scene mysteriously disappear completely. We've seen the finale script. We've seen the omitted omitted omitted scenes. We all saw how they hacked the confession scene to bits. The weird cuts and close-ups. That's not the writers doing. That's likely not even the editors (willingly). That's orders from on high. All of the fuckery we saw in s15 reeks of network interference. Writers are not trying to sabotage their own stories, believe me.
Anyways, TLDR: Networks have a lot more power than many think and they get final say in what makes it to air. And for years creative teams have had to find ways to get past network censorship if they want "banned" or "unapproved" "unprofitable" "unwanted" content to make it into the show. That means relying on techniques like symbolism, subtext, and queercoding, and then shutting up about it. Denying its there, saying it's all "open to interpretation" all while they continue to put that open to interpretation content into the show. And that's not queerbaiting, as frustrating as it might be for queer audiences to be told that what they're seeing isn't there, it's still not queerbaiting. Queerbaiting is a marketing technique to draw in queer fans by baiting them with the promise of queer content and then having no queer content in said media. But if you are picking up on queer themes / subtext / symbolism / coding that is in front of your face IN the text, that's not queerbaiting. It's there, covertly, for you, because someone higher up didn't want it to be there explicitly or at all.
#long post#LONG-ass post#but it needed to be said!#i'm sorry if you think every creative involved with spn was a braindead asshole but the thing is.#even the most mediocre of writers understands a thing or two abt symbolism and writers working in TV are plagued by S&P#countless writers have talked abt the S&P bullshit and having to tweak and edit down their work to get past censors#it's a reality of writing for television#and the people who understand all this and understand the context of making TV in the early 2000s (to present tbh!) aren't 'delusional'#i'm sorry but it's naive to think that queer stories and queer characters are free to be told even nowadays. it's still a constant battle#times have changed but unfortunately not as much as you'd think#the confession !!!!! the confession still struggled to air and what we got was so obviously hacked down to bits!!!!!!#how can anyone think getting destiel content into the show was ever easy?#how can anyone think the pro-destiel writers weren't constantly having to be careful and underhanded in their writing?#there's a reason queercoding and subtext exist and it's this!!! it's censorship from TPTB#anyways. people much older than me have been talking abt this for ages. younger fans who are used to more open queer rep need to understand#it hasn't always been that easy and even nowadays SO many networks are still not willing to take a risk on queer stories#so creators do what they can#vic.txt
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the CW to Dean in the finale:
#Supernatural#November 5th#destiel#is the original post widespread enough yet for images to be taken out of context#???#WELL IT IS NOW BC I HAVE THE BRAINROT#November 5th the 3rd#SPN lulz#what was my CW tag again ???
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The way they look and act with one another when no one else is around. So 🥰 ☺️
#supernatural#dean winchester#castiel#destiel#spn#supernatural gif#supernatural 15x12#Supernatural out of context
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I just found out I have to wait til SEASON 4 for Castiel to show up?! I feel cheated. Where is my unresolved sexual tension, huh?
#I’m just here for context so I can read fanfiction#i kid i kid#supernatural#spn#castiel#dean winchester#destiel
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that witch from Mercury is just too strong 🤖
#sulemio#destiel#mioletta#meme#destiel confession meme#tumblr ship poll#gundam the witch from mercury#posty posty#sorry it felt appropriate to use this meme in this context i have no problem with destiel#i must support my red&white space lesbians ship tho#gundam#the witch from mercury
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