#fndm discourse

[rwac96]

Something I made for the r/fnki SubReddit.

[chaoslordjoe]

Do not let CRWBY deter you.

The current FNDM situation involving Volume 9 Episode 6 needs no introduction, by now, y'all know what happened and how pissed most everyone is in the following episode at recent character actions. Who can blame them?

But after scouring some RWBY-related forums and channels, I have to say that I'm almost not surprised by how disheartened everyone is rather than enraged. Well, there are folks who are angry, but what really shocks me is how everyone is more sad and disappointed rather than pissed off.

Anyway, with my point being made, let's cut straight into it: Don't let RWBY's latest controversy deter you from criticizing this show. And to any fanfic writers, fan-artists or general content creators who still write RWBY fanfiction, don't let the events of this episode or CRWBY's "planned from the start" mantra make you feel bad. 

That's exactly what they want to make themselves feel like they're being smart about this to flex on us, the beleaguered critics of this show.

Perhaps then, this isn't the right sub for this kind of rallying cry. But rather, the kind of post to motivate creators of fan content who have been burned out, and it seems like the Wasps and other toxic elements of the FNDM have won.

We should not let CRWBY win either. They got the last laugh in deciding the events to canonize a controversial ship, but we should resist their efforts to dominate the FNDM discussion as we have more power than them, we can still write our own fanfics, our own alternate universes, rewrites, whatever else.

Do not let CRWBY's idiocy deter you. They started this shipping war, and the only way to resist that is to let them know that you will ship whoever you please, however if fits within YOUR narrative. Not Rooster Teeth's. If you give in, then Miles, Kerry, Eddy and Kiersi wins.

Arryn Zech wins.

Barbara Dunkelman wins.

Where they've successfully demoralized you. You have more creativity than those braying jackasses ever will. Continue writing fanfiction. Continue drawing art. Do not let CRWBY deter you.

[howlingday]

Am... Am I in the dark dimension? Did I just wake up into a dark alternate universe where people are acting the exact opposite of normal?

Some of y'all are getting political for no reason!

Some of y'all are hating things you used to love to the point you're boycotting it!

And it's making me feel like y'all are getting your accounts hacked by antis! Seriously,

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?!

[instantbee]

“The RWBY Volume 9 delay is unacceptable! It shouldn’t take that long to make a show!”

Didn’t Arcane take like half a decade to make 9 episodes?

[nov4-rocket5]

“Hey, portraying the only active force against racism as an abusive incel loser, who is also the only character in the show with scars of a hate crime, is a pretty poor-taste decision that makes me kind of uncomfortable.”

The Sensible Thing to Say: “Okay, I can certainly get where you’re coming from. I don’t agree, but I can definitely understand where your feelings are coming from.”

What a Good Chunk of FNDM Likes to Say: “Shut the fuck up misogynist. Ur just mad ur headcanons were wrong. Adam was always meant to be an evil shithead, you just weren’t paying attention, idiot.

[awkward-tension]

Someone: The RWBY fandom has a lot of antisemitism in it. Joking about the armbands Nazi’s wore isn’t that funny :/

Some of you troglodytes: OMG! No we aren’t! We just think nazi armbands are funny! Your just an ironwood Stan! It’s satire! It’s ok to make satirical posts about nazism and the armbands they wore before they committed mass genocide!!!

[werewolf-cuddles]

>goes into Blacksun tag

>immediately sees post bitching about Bumbleby being canon

>closes Blacksun tag

I see we're still doing this stupid petty "my ship is better than your ship" shit huh?

[hyperfixation-hideout]

No offense to RWBY or the fandom, but sometimes I come across fanfics that make my skin crawl with how misogynistically the women are written by people who claim that their fanfics are somehow better than the show.

As I've not personally delved enough into the fanfic scene (despite writing some myself), I feel I can't provide much insight here :P I can imagine misogyny being unfortunately common, as it is irl, and that sucks you've come across enough of it for it to be an issue :/

I won't defend arrogance or shitting on others, but pride in one's work -- even to the point of preferring it to the source material -- isn't an inherently bad thing! It's a great feeling to take something you're invested with and recreate it or expand on it through your own lenses, and if that enjoyment surpasses that which you get from the show's canon, more power to ya!

But "better" is subjective af, and from the way you phrase it it sounds like those creators are being more condescending than healthily proud. In those cases, I shrug it off and move on if I can't determine whether it's in bad faith, knowing I likely won't enjoy something written with the attitude of being superior (ime it usually shows when a fic writer is Like That in their writing; it comes off very holier-and-wiser-than-thou and babies the reader)

[matt0044]

Why does Indie Animation lend itself to such intense discourse?

If I had to speculate from my own observations (feel free to call me out on an overgeneralizations), it would be that the harsh turn against any given indie project would be akin to a mother scolding a child with, "I expected this from your sibling but you?!"

See also the "We were rooting for you" gif often tossed around.

Indie Animation be it from a small studio or crowdfunded is seen as bypassing the hoops and hurdles of getting your foot in the door of the highly corporatized entertainment industry. With the likes of Disney or Nick or any given streaming service, creator driven projects are subject to the whims of the company who holds the IP.

And those whims are often to said IP's detriment. It'll more often than not be willfully neglected at best or treated as just something to fill a time slot or shove onto a streaming platform as "content." Enough may be allowed to flourish but their either uncerimoniously cut short at best or being dragged out as a franchise at worst.

To keep from going on about the whole Legend of Korra vs. Spongebob thing (I was there people, there was an LoK fandom believe it or not), indie animation has often been seen as small scale but also within the creator's general control since they control how long it goes or how it's written.

Many cartoons like Gravity Falls, Owl House and Amphibia have talked about trying to get their vision across while contending with a lot of Standards and Practices. Their story which had a "kids and adults alike" target audience would have the top brass insist on something more just for the former category.

While they find work arounds, often to stick their tongue out at the FCC, this can be a hard reminder of who has the final say despite it being what you want. Indie animation is seen as an answer to "What if Alex Hirsch didn't have to comprimise elements of Gravity Falls for the FCC?" or "What if Dana Terrence could just blaze her own trail with The Owl House with little to no notes?"

Especially when it comes to animation with queer characters. Animation made to be "fit for kids" have it tough enough even today but adult animation has to "play it for laughs" since comedies have been the defacto standard for that type of cartoon.

However... a show being creator driven or creative team driven comes as a double edged sword for the fandoms they form. Not all stories that play out across multiple episodes of varying lengths are going in the direction YOU might want to.

Creators might tire of a certain direction or formula and mix things up with things that come to mind almost on the spot. Even with a solid plan, the status quo will get a shake up that can and will alienate those who fell in love from episode one.

Indie Pilots spark the imagination something fierce. There's theories as to what any little detail could mean going forward and speculation on what a character's arc could be. These go wild because Fandom is all about the hypothetical, the unknown, the what could've/should've/would've been. Whole phenomenon would be dead in the water otherwise.

Thing is that not all theories will be proven right if any at all. The creators aren't mind readers and even if it isn't a legality like in corporate, they don't read fanfics if only because they don't want their vision to be totally compromised. Any good creator knows not to just give fans what they want. However... trampling over all these fanfics and theories makes it feel like any given fan had their "child" dragged into the streets to be shot.

A harsh phrasing but that's how a lot of fans act when continuing episode bump up against initial impression of this character or that storyline. It was their creation but new lore, new backstory or what have you is liable to override them. It's been an occupational hazard of being a member of fandom for ages yet it's become the center of a lot of discourse now more than ever. Say thank you to social media for creating such a combative environment everybody.

It's this... feeling of ownership that has existed in fandoms of other shows owned by corporations but amplied by the smaller scale of it, how creators seem more... approachable. And THIS is how the YouTube "critic" scene comes in to capitalize.

So... yeah.

[dextixer]

The hypocritical Woobification of Raven Branwen

I dont think it is a secret to anyone who has followed any RWBY discourse, that female characters are treated VERY differently from male ones in the wider fandom, especially in regards to the morality of their actions. I dare anyone who wishes to enter the words like "Raven" "Ironwood" "Adam" "Cinder: and the like into the search bar of websites like twitter and even Reddit to some extent. What you will find more often than not, besides fan-art and porn are discussions about these characters.

After browsing through these discussions one can quickly notice a pattern. Ironwood and Adam are either demonized or have complicated discussions surrounding them. While characters like Raven and Cinder, while having their detractors mostly have discussions focused on shipping or on justifying/excusing their actions.

Raven Branwen is of course, the most iconic example of this.

Raven Branwen in Canon

In the canon of RWBY, Raven Branwen and her brother Qrow both hail from a bandit tribe. They were sent to Beacon to learn how to kill hunters where they learn the values of family and friendship, with team STRQ becoming close. Raven even marries Tai, her teammate and has a kid with him, then ditches him with the child and leaves Summer to come into the picture while Qrow remains an eternal bachelor.

It is revealed to us that Ozpins tendency to keep secrets is what lead Raven to losing trust and leaving the side of good. That, and feat of Salem who she knows is immortal and thus cannot be killed directly.

She returns to her bandit tribe and becomes a bandit queen, killing entire villages for loot and plunder. One of which we can see in the show.

Her becoming a bandit is not something that was thrust upon her, she was not forced to do it or anything of the sort. She chose to do it under her own volition.

Her only "redeeming" point is not being allied to Salem and having a "I will save you once" rule with those she knows and nothing more.

And yet...

Raven Branwen in Fanon

If we were to follow the most common discussions of Fanon then Raven is a tragic lesbian who could never be with Summer, a mother who understood her limits and wanted her daughter to have a better life than with her and who was forced into the position of providing for her tribe and had absolutely no choice but to raid villages for survival of her poor tribe.

If people arent thirsting over Raven herself and or her "romance" with Summer then one can always find many excuses and people calling her a "tragic" and "understandable" figure. They will say that "Shes not perfect" and things like that when in reality, Raven Branwen is just a straight up evil person in the story. Complicated? Yes. Evil? Also yes.

Her only saving grace is that most of the time she is not an antagonist. And she is not related to Salem and in fact would oppose her if she wasnt a coward. And yet, her actions, her being a literal murderous bandit seem to be ignored by a lot of the fandom.

The same fandom that will give shit to Ironwood for bringing 3 airships to Vale and calling it a "military occupation" and Adam wanting to blow up a train (with its crew) will then turn around and pretend that Raven killing innocent villages for shits and giggles on her own volition never happened.

They will cry about how Ironwood and Adam never deserved redemption! How they are deeply evil and have always been deeply evil people, while convincing everyone that Raven is perfect for redemption and was just "forced" to be a bandit queen.

The hypocricy of the RWBY FNDM is staggering, but not news.

What is worse however is how Raven is seemingly receiving the same if not even faster way of redemption that Emerald has. By now most people have probably seen both the RWBY:Beyond first episode and of course the ending animatic. And who else is there in Vacuo if not Raven. Shes just there. Like she just belongs amongst the heroes despite being a literal BANDIT QUEEN.

Despite Ironwood and Adam turning evil they had a good cause at the end of the day. A cause they wanted to fight for.

And instead the people praise and want the redeption of a terrorist who worked for Salem and a literal bandit queen, both of whom did the things they did out of selfish needs? Seriously?

Whats worse is that it seems that CRWBY is more than okay with that. It seems that this is at least currently one of their goals. Which to me is just staggering.

Conclussion i guess

Sorry for the ranty nature of this post. I know that im preaching to the choir but i just needed to get this out of my chest after seeing 10000000000000 posts about Raven and Summer fucking on twitter. Because yeah, THATS Ravens most identifying feature, being a girlkisser. After fucking years of being called a fascist and a bootliker for simply saying that Ironwoods heel turn was shittily done and that SOME of his plans were good it fucking maddens me to see people simp for a literal BANDIT QUEEN without push-back.

[the-path-to-redemption]

Stop associating the actions of fictional characters to real people's morality, especially if the latter just happens to be attracted to the former. It's not fucking real, and you sound like a stupid fucking RadFem.

A person's attraction to pixels isn't the all-seeing window into their beliefs. Just because someone finds a FAKE PERSON sexy, their ability to make critical opinions doesn't just disappear into the wind. To say that someone is either 1) just liking a character for the hots so they cannot have any valid thoughts or 2) takes pleasure in other people's suffering, especially if the accused are also abuse survivors and femme represented, is fucking bigoted radfem rhetoric.

Go fuck yourself.

[rwac96]

Regarding Weiss Content

Comment the reason for your choice, or place it in a reblog. Remember to reblog to spread it around.

[tumblezwei]

It is really interesting to look at this ship poll and see how the FNDM has changed over the years

Like seriously if this poll was made during the Mistral era I would never even dream of NND beating WR, or BS v BB being as one sided and non-toxic as it is now.

I know there are still plenty of annoying people in the FNDM, but I really feel like it's, I dunno, chilled out a little.

[howlingday]

I'm seeing a lot of hostility towards certain individuals on this site, and I want to put my two cents in. Like Ruby in IQ, I should be saving them forore important things, but here I am.

Whether or not you make Jaune Arc, Adam Taurus, Mercury Black, or even Coco Adel a Harem God...

IT DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER

People have been doing this in other fandoms since the dawn of fandoms! There's nothing wrong with writing someone OOC! Hell, I've done it so many times, I'm surprised I haven't been crucified for saying these things!

Love it, hate it, ignore, I don't care.

BUT DO NOT EVER, EVER THREATEN SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY WROTE YOUR CHARACTER WRONG FOR FUN!

If you want to be mad at someone for writing your character wrong, be mad at the person who writes the character for a living!

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I'm seeing hostility rising in this FNDM, and I don't want to abandon the community I've grown to love because of something meaningless as OOC moments. Or blogs that do this excessively.

I get it, you're emotionally invested in these characters, and believe me, I am, too, but don't start a flame war because of words on a screen!

...

Sorry, I got a bit emotional, but I'm serious. I'm trying to nip this in the bud before it grows into a real division. Something where we can't even enjoy our FNDM without choosing a side and hating the other. Please, don't let our FNDM become that.

[instantbee]

The FNDM: Crunch is bad and RT is bad for doing it. They should treat their animators better, even if the show takes longer

Parts of the FNDM when the show takes longer: wtf?

[nov4-rocket5]

Anytime I see someone bitch about RWBY’s ‘hatedom’ I wish that the FNDM swapped hatedoms with another community.

You think RWBY has it bad? How about you spend a week with a hatedom like say… Star Wars?

I guarantee FNDM would be begging to trade hatedoms back before the first day was even through.