#in Batman 424

[jasontoddenthusiastt]

“Batman may not kill, but he also doesn’t need to save you 😉😏”

Ok then he shouldn’t have freaked out so much when Garzonas fell lol

[thejasontoddarchives]

This is the core of Jason’s character.

Again they try to hammer in that Jason is brash, arrogant, and reckless; that he jumps before thinking. However you can’t really attribute reckless behavior to arrogance or carelessness when he only ever becomes instinctive during very specific instances. The few times he’s “stepped out of line” or just threw himself into an unknown/dangerous situation it was always to protect someone from predators and sickos. Otherwise, keep in mind the number of times he’s been praised for his intelligence and judgment; for being meticulous, calm, and cooperative.

Batman #424 (1988)

[mothemotics]

literally just the apartment i grew up in, which, to be fair, eventually did house a front for selling weed downstairs

[cowboymater]

the one he didn't & the one years later he did

[nightwings-robin]

I kind of hate the over-correction some Jason Todd fans have done from making Jason the "Angry Robin" into the "uwu soft boy Robin" instead. Jason is neither of those things.

like no I don't want Jason to be known as the Angry Robin when literally ALL of the Robins have been angry at some point. but I also don't want to see him be sanitized either, you know? there were times when Jason was angry and violent and I hate it when some fans deny that anger. (not all Jason fans do this of course but I have seen far too many fans try to claim he actually never did anything questionable before he died. but also, none of the questionable things he did should be used as justification for his murder, which I have seen fans and writers alike do.)

Jason was multi-faceted as Robin. sometimes he really was excessively violent and sometimes he was sweet and goofy.

here he is strangling Poison Ivy in Detective Comics #534 in 1984:

(granted, this example is pre-crisis Jason so he's not canon anymore but still, my point stands.)

then there's that time he tried to choke Two-Face to death in Batman (1940) #411 in 1987. (for context, Two-Face killed Jason's father, Willis Todd.)

he really does seem okay with killing Two-Face here and Batman had to pull Jason off and give him a lecture in the Batcave. the point is that he did very much have angry and violent outbursts as Robin. he did very much have some violent tendencies that shouldn't be overlooked.

but he was also innocent and cute at times too! he literally ordered milk while at a bar in Detective Comics #570 in 1987:

he's pretty goofy in this whole issue actually, it's quite funny!

and there's this cute panel in Batman (1940) #385 from 1985:

he also wasn't always irrational and reckless like a lot of modern comics and fans tend to portray him as. I've seen so many adaptations portray him as jumping into trouble without thinking of the consequences first but that wasn't really always the case.

there were times, such as in Batman (1940) #370 from 1984, when Jason was shown to be level headed and decided not to go after some criminals without Batman's help:

don't get me wrong, there totally were times when he was impatient and didn't wait for Bruce but my point is that it wasn't ALL the time.

also some of the times when he was excessively violent was when he was trying to protect someone, like in Batman (1940) #422 in 1988:

(for context, the guy Jason is punching had just hit and threatened to stab a woman implied to be a sex worker.)

I understand not wanted Jason to be known as the "Angry Robin" but that doesn't mean we should ignore the times when he actually was angry. I don't want Jason to be known as the reckless, angry Robin who never followed orders but I also don't think pure, innocent, sweetie pie fits him either.

the point I'm trying to make is that there is no "Angry Robin." they were ALL angry at times but that was never the main character trait for any of them. just please stop boiling characters down to one or two traits when those weren't even their main traits to begin with.

these characters have nuance! Jason has nuance! he can be a character who chokes and strangles bad guys while also caring about school and studying. he can be a character who isn't bothered by the death of criminals while also making puns and jokes. the same character can do all of these things! he's multi-faceted!

[dukeofthomas]

Why Jason Todd doesn't believe in Batman's idea of ''justice'', or his way of doing things.

[horsechestnut]

I got a bunch of new comics today and now I have to many to fit in my short box, but if I put them in the long box it won't be snug enough for the bags to crease :(

[tiredofsatansbullshit]

Jason Todd and Bruce Wayne

Lyra Wren // Batman Annual #25 // Origin Story - Desiree Dallagiacomo // Batman Annual #25 // And My Father's Love was Nothing Next To God's Will - Amatullah Bourdon // Batman #424 // User: petrichara // Batman #683 // Family Line - Conan Gray // Batman: Under the Red Hood // The Pain Scale - Eula Biss // Batman: Under the Red Hood // Woodtangle - Mary Reufle // Red Hood and the Outlaws V2 #24 // Someday I'll Love Ocean Vuong - Ocean Vuong // Red Hood and the Outlaws V1 #19 // Georges Bataille // Red Hood and the Outlaws V2 #25 // The Sun Is Also A Star - Nicola Yoon // Task Force Z #6 // Episode 100 - Just Roll With It // Batman and Robin V2 #20

[dailyjasontodd]

Robin, did Felipe fall.. or was he pushed?

You knew I was following you, didn't you?

Batman #424 (1988) | Death in the Family - Robin Lives #1 (2024)

[jayladfanpage]

JASON TODD MUST-READ COMIC GUIDE :]

ROBIN

Batman (1940) #408-411, #416

Detective Comics (1937) #569-574, #580 & #581

Superman (1939) Annual #11

New Teen Titans (1985) #20, #21

Batman: The Cult (1988)

Batman (1940) #422, #424, #425

Batman: A Death in The Family

Batman: Gotham Knights (2000) #43-45

RED HOOD

Under The Red Hood & Red Hood: Lost Days (I recommend reading Lost Days first, but it's up to you)

Nightwing (1996) #118-122

Green Arrow (2001) #69-72

Batman: Battle for the Cowl & Battle for the Cowl: The Underground (2009)

Task Force Z (2021)

Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing (2023)

[celaenaeiln]

I know you don't really talk about Tim and Jason but I wondered why you said that Bruce likes Jason more then Tim when I always viewed it the other way around

og post in reference

Anon it's a such a coincidence for me to get this because this was something I actively debated over while creating the ranking.

In fact, originally I had written "4. Jason/Tim (tie?) 5. Tim/Jason (tie)" before I got rid of the slashes and ties.

This is the one part of the ranking that I'm most confused on/don't have an exact answer for. The rest are solid and those I'll be explaining in a different post soon but these two gave me a lot of confusion.

I think what it comes down to is in which shitty way that Bruce treats either of them expresses more love. And to me they're roughly the same in equally but different bad ways.

Bruce obviously loves Jason but he's also not remotely proud of him. His relationship with Jason is always "I love you BUT-" kinda relationship.

"You're good-

Batman (1940) Issue #415

BUT-"

Batman (1940) Issue #415

"You're loveable-

Batman (1940) Issue #410

BUT-"

Batman (1940) Issue #411

There's always an opposing side to every good thing Bruce says about him. He views Jason as a failure but he still loves him and yet can't help putting him down. After Bruce dies, he leaves a message for Jason -

Batman: Battle for the Cowl Issue #3

Like Bruce full on treats him like absolute shit. How could you as a parent tell your son straight to his face that he's a failure and then say that it's your fault?? Somehow this is adding more insult than injury than to just blame him directly.

Bruce and Jason had good and bad times when he was Robin. There many times when Bruce was like "Good job, lab!" and other times when he struggled to deal with Jason. There was one case in particular that soured their relationship irrevocably. Things became really bad between them after that such that Bruce actively fights with himself not to lose his temper at Jason more than he used to.

For example:

Batman (1940) Issue #426

Things get worse and worse, Batman benches him, Jason runs off to Ethiopia, and then you-know-what happens. In summary of their Robin-Batman relationship, Bruce thought he found a good partner in Jason, was happy for a while, but then started believing he made a mistake when Jason used the skills he taught him to go past the limits of what Bruce was acceptable with. The secret Bruce talks about is that one irreversible case I mentioned - Gloria/Felipe - where Jason killed a man. Or atleast Bruce suspects he killed a man.

Batman (1940) Issue #422

Batman (1940) Issue #424

When Jason came back as Red Hood, Batman felt so guilty for the fact that he made Jason robin because then Jason wouldn't have died but also believed that Jason was beyond saving. When Jason was at the hands of the society because of Black Mask who wanted revenge on him for what he did, Bruce almost let Jason die a second time - this time intentionally - before he changed his mind last minute and joined the fight to help him out.

Batman: Under the Red Hood Issue #10

It's this type of relationship I struggle with because Bruce very much loves him and even says so -

Batman: Hush Issue #11

But also guess what tips him off that he's not fighting Jason?

Batman: Hush Issue #11

I call this confusing but Dick calls this something else entirely.

Batman: Battle for the Cowl Issue #3

Tough love.

Maybe, but I guess how I would make out their relationship to be is: if Jason acts within Bruce's expectations, then Bruce loves him. If he doesn't then Bruce doesn't hold back hitting and punching. I don't think their relationship is tough love as much as it is conditional love. There are conditions to the way Jason must act in order for Bruce to love him and if he doesn't act that way then he stops caring about his son. He's happy if Jason comes to gatherings but doesn't particularly care if he doesn't. He leaves Jason alone if he follows his rules but actively goes after him if he doesn't. Both in his Robin days and now, Bruce doesn't tolerate Jason if he acts outside expectation but still loves him and although it's not the kind of love you would appreciate, it's also not the kind you can set aside and call it nothing. It's complicated. That's Jason and Bruce's relationship.

Tim on the other hand, he's very proud of. He thinks Tim is excellent, smart, dependable, and loves him very much.

Batman (2016) Issue #128

But I feel like Bruce takes him for granted.

Bruce was both neglectful and very involved in Tim's life.

Bruce means a lot to Tim in the sense that he was a true father to him.

Batman (1940) Issue #480

Tim's dad Jack gets really worried that Tim might consider Bruce more of a father than him. "Maybe - But I'm your father, Tim. Not him!"

The developing relationship between Bruce and Tim was based originally on need. Bruce needed someone who he could work with and Tim needed someone who could be there for him. As time evolved that need turned into liking which turned into love.

After Jason, Bruce needed someone who listened to him completely. Someone who never questioned him or doubted his orders and Tim was everything Bruce needed and he loved that.

Batman (1940) Issue #467

Bruce invested a LOT of time into Tim's training and he also depends on him heavily but at the same time I feel like he constantly brushes off Tim's words and worries.

Robin (1993) Issue #9

Batman: Urban Legends Issue #10

The classic "I trust you but I know better than you" x 10. And it's this thing that gives me doubts because I get this inexplicable sense of distance in their relationship. Bruce loves, trusts, and cares for him but I feel like there's something missing.

This being said, I realize that there's no clear explanation as to why I feel this way so I'll change the ranking back to "tie" for the two of them like I originally had. Because while Bruce loves Jason, he doesn't tolerate him and while Bruce loves Tim, he kinda disregards him in a way. And between these situations, I can't decide what represents more love or favoritism. I guess a part of me just felt really, REALLY bad for the way Bruce treated Jason. That post kinda shredded my heart so I gave him brownie points on the favoritism ranking list but in hindsight, after all this and writing it all out, I think Bruce loves Tim and Jason equally. It's entirely possible Bruce may actually love Tim more because unlike with Jason, I can't provide evidence of Bruce distancing himself from Tim in loving - only left with more of a sense. So in this case I agree with you, anon. It's very possible.

[jasontoddenthusiastt]

The New Titans #55 (1989)

Batman (2010-) #641

…

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016-) #6

…

…

…

Batman and Red Hood (2011-) #20

…

Batman (2016-) #138

They sure do bAT&Tman. They sure as hell do.

Yet Jason never thought this way about you.

[thejasontoddarchives]

Batman #422 (1988) // Batman #424 (1988)

Patterns. Jason knows how it goes. He doesn’t want any other innocents like Judy to risk their lives trying to put a much-needed end to the cycle.

And while I do believe part of the reason Jason feels he has a duty to be executioner is because he knows what it’s like to be the victim (because he was one after death+resurrection), these moments reveal he felt this responsibility earlier on. Coming from his perspective, civilians like Judy have to face real-life consequences for dealing out justice, their lives are forever impacted/changed for the worse. Meanwhile people like himself and Bruce have the resources and opportunities that the majority of people don’t; they can and do get away with crime every single day. They have the privilege of remaining anonymous whilst carrying out *their own* vision of justice in ridiculous costumes. So of course as he learns, he feels he owes it to the people to cater to their needs using the privilege he has, rather than to continue to operate on his or Bruce’s own beliefs exclusively (especially when they’ve proven to be ineffective and useless in so many instances).

[argoscity]

ULTIMATE SUPERGIRL READING GUIDE

since i've been asked a few times in the past for various reading guides for kara, i thought i'd compile them all into one post for the sake of convenience!

this guide has reading orders for supergirl comics in PRE-CRISIS (1959-1985), POST-CRISIS (2004-2011), NEW 52 (2011-2016), REBIRTH (2016-2021), and INFINITE FRONTIER (2021-present).

if you have any questions at all don't be afraid to shoot me an ask!

for each section bolded comics are required, italicized comics are recommended, and everything else is optional!

[PRE-CRISIS]

ORIGIN AND MIDVALE ERA (NOTE: you'll have to flip to the back of each issue to get to kara's section!) action comics (1938) #252, 258, 267, 276, 278-282, 285, 295, 309-310, 313, 317

STANHOPE COLLEGE action comics (1938) #318, 366-368, 372, 374 world’s finest (1941) #169 adventure comics (1938) #381, 386, 391, 395, 397

K-SFTV REPORTER — SAN FRANCISCO adventure comics (1938) #406-407, 410-415, 419-424

VANDYRE UNIVERSITY supergirl (1974) #1-10

STUDENT ADVISOR — FLORIDA (NOTE: every member of the superfamily has a story in the superman family (1974), so you'll have to flip through to find kara's section!) the superman family (1974) #165, 168, 171, 177 justice league of america (1960) #132-134 the superman family #183, 184-186, 187-189, 191-193, 196-198, 201-202, 203, 204-205

ACTRESS — NEW YORK the superman family (1974) 208-210, 211-214, 215-216, 217, 218 superman (1939) #373 (second story titled “an eye (and ear) on the world!”) detective comics (1937) #508-510 the superman family #219-222

LAKE SHORE UNIVERSITY supergirl (1982) #1-12 (cw: nazi imagery in the brief interlude in #12)  supergirl (1982) #13-15 (cw: antisemitism, nazi imagery, depictions of the holocaust.) supergirl (1982) #16-23

LAST APPEARANCES AND DEATH legion of superheroes (1980) #300-303 tales of the legion (1985) #4-7 crisis on infinite earths (1985) #4-7

BONUS POST-COIE APPEARANCES christmas with the super-heroes (1988) #2 (last story titled “should auld acquaintance be forgot”) supergirl (1996) #49, 75-80 solo (2004) #1 (third story titled “young love”) convergence: adventures of superman (2015) #1-2

[POST-CRISIS]

ORIGIN superman/batman (2003) #8-13  (or you can watch superman/batman: apocalypse (2010) instead which I recommend! the art is a lot more tasteful and it's a very faithful adaptation of the comic so you won’t be missing out on anything.)

KARA WITH THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES supergirl and the legion of super-heroes (2006) #16-36

LOEB AND KELLY HELL ERA supergirl (2005) #1-5, 9-10, 19 (you don’t have to read any of this since it gets retconned anyway, but if you’re interested in kara’s early characterization, the beginnings of her friendship with cassie sandsmark, or her difficulty fitting in on earth then you’re welcome to read what i’ve provided.)

KELLEY PUCKETT ERA Amazons Attack! teen titans (2003) #47-48  amazons attack! (2007) #3  supergirl (2005) #20  amazons attack! (2007) #4  teen titans (2003) #49

supergirl (2005) #21-22  teen titans (2003) #50, 51-55  supergirl (2005) #25-33

Superman: Brainiac  action comics (1938) #866-870

GATES AND IGLE HEAVEN ERA supergirl (2005) #34

New Krypton (new krypton is one of my favorite events and i recommend it in its entirety, but for the sake of brevity I’ll only be listing the issues relevant to kara.) superman: new krypton special #1  superman (1939) #681  adventure comics special featuring guardian #1  action comics (1938) #871  supergirl (2005) #35  superman (1939) #682  action comics (1938) #872  supergirl (2005) #36  superman (1939) #683  action comics (1938) #873

teen titans (2003) #66  supergirl (2005) #37-42

Friends and Fugitives superman: secret Files 2009 #1  supergirl (2005) #43  action comics (1938) #881  supergirl (2005) #45  action comics (1938) #882  supergirl (2005) #46-47

supergirl (2005) annual 1, #48-50

Last Stand of New Krypton  adventure comics (2009) #8  superman: last stand of new krypton #1  supergirl (2005) #51  superman (1938) #698  adventure comics (2009) #9  superman: last stand of new krypton #2  adventure comics (2009) #10  supergirl (2005) #52  superman (1938) #699  superman: last stand of new krypton #3 superman: war of the supermen (2010) #0, 1-4 

supergirl (2005) #53-57, annual 2, 58-59

END OF SUPERGIRL VOL 5 supergirl (2005) #60-64 supergirl (2005) #65-67

[NEW 52]

ORIGIN and SUPERGIRL VS THE WORLDKILLERS supergirl (2011) #1-7

SUPERGIRL and SILVER BANSHEE supergirl (2011) #8-11

SUPERGIRL and SUPERBOY superboy (2011) #6

SANCTUARY supergirl (2011) #12, 0, 13

H’EL ON EARTH superman (2011) #13 supergirl (2011) #14 superman (2011) #14 superboy (2011) #15 supergirl (2011) #15 superboy (2011) #16 superboy (2011) Annual #1 supergirl (2011) #16 superman (2011) #16 superboy (2011) #17 supergirl (2011) #17 superman (2011) #17

SUPERGIRL and POWERGIRL supergirl (2011) #18-20

CYBORG SUPERMAN supergirl (2011) #21-23 action comics (2011) #23.1 supergirl (2011) #24

KRYPTON RETURNS action comics (2011) annual #2 superboy (2011) #25 supergirl (2011) #25 superman (2011) #25

SUPERGIRL VS LOBO supergirl (2011) #26-27

RED DAUGHTER OF KRYPTON supergirl (2011) #28-29 red lanterns (2011) #28-29 supergirl (2011) #30 red lanterns (2011) #30 supergirl (2011) #31 red lanterns (2011) #31-32 supergirl (2011) #32-33

SUPERMAN: DOOMED (this is a whole storyline but I'll only be listing the issues that kara appears in!) superman/wonder woman (2013) #9 action comics (2011) #33 supergirl (2011) #34 superman: doomed (2014) #2 action comics (2011) #35 supergirl (2011) #35

FUTURES END supergirl: futures end (2014) #1

JUSTICE LEAGUE UNITED justice league united (2014) #1-5 justice league united (2014) annual #1 justice league united (2014) #6-10

CRUCIBLE supergirl (2011) #36-40

FINAL DAYS OF SUPERMAN (kara only appears in the issues i've italicized and bolded, but i put all the relevant issues if you wanted to read the full storyline!) superman (2011) #51 batman/superman (2013) #31 action comics (2011) #51 superman/wonder woman (2013) #28 batman/superman (2013) #32 action comics (2011) #52 superman/wonder woman (2013) #29 superman (2011) #52

[REBIRTH]

KARA IN NATIONAL CITY supergirl: rebirth #1

supergirl (2016) #1-8 batgirl (2016) annual 1 supergirl #9-12

supergirl (2016) annual 1 supergirl #13-20

world's finest: batwoman and supergirl #1-2

ROGOL ZAAR and THE SINS OF THE CIRCLE the man of steel #1-2, 3-6 supergirl #21-33, #34-36

LEVIATHAN and BATMAN WHO LAUGHS superman: leviathan rising special #1 supergirl #34-36 supergirl (2016) annual 2 supergirl #37-42

HOUSE OF KENT action comics (2016) #1022-1023 action comics (2016) #1024-1028

FUTURE STATE superman of metropolis (2021) #1-2 kara zor el, superwoman (2021) #1-2

[INFINITE FRONTIER]

action comics 2021 annual

WOMAN OF TOMORROW supergirl: woman of tomorrow (2021) #1-8

WORLD'S FINEST batman/superman: world's finest (2022) #2-6, 8, 12

A WORLD WITHOUT CLARK KENT and RED MOON (kara is featured in the back-up story! if you want the full context of this plot i recommend reading the full warworld arc in action comics [action comics #1030-1046, superman: warworld apocalypse #1]!) action comics (2016) #1044-1046, 1047-1049

DAWN OF DC action comics (2016) #1051-1053, 1055-1056 superman (2023) #1-3 power girl special #1 steelworks (2023) #1-3

KNIGHT TERRORS knight terrors: superman (2023) #1-2

DAWN OF DC (continued) action comics: doomsday special (2023) superman (2023) #7 hawkgirl (2023) #4 supergirl special (2023)

NEW WORLDS [this arc starts on action comics #1057—kara doesn't appear in that issue but I recommend reading it for context!] action comics (2016) #1058-1060 action comics 2023 annual

JOURNEY TO FERIMBIA powergirl (2023) #5-7

HOUSE OF BRAINIAC action comics (2016) #1064 superman (2023) #13 action comics (2016) #1065 superman (2023) #14 action comics (2016) #1066 superman (2023) #15

UPCOMING: a new arc from Mariko Tamaki in the back-ups of action comics (spanning #1070-1081) begins on October 9th!

[l-just-want-to-see]

Jason (from the Greek Iásōn, “healer”) Peter Todd (from the German Tod, “death”) - I hope you find your way out of that grave.

dc comics + The Oresteia, Aeschylus / Lady Windermere’s Fan, Oscar Wilde / Grief Lessons: Four Plays [tr. Anne Carson], Euripides + Batman v1 #385 / Batman: The Cult #3 / For Example, Mary Oliver / Batman: Legends of The Dark Knight #100 / Batman: Under the Red Hood / Eight, Sleeping at Last / Red Hood and the Outlaws: Rebirth / Batman: Urban Legends #10 + ? / On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous, Ocean Vuong / Red Hood and The Outlaws #25 / Slay the Princess / pinterest + Batman #422 / Batman #424 + Rilke's Book of Hours: Love Poems to God, Rainer Maria Rilke + Batman #428 | A Death in the Family / @/metamorphesque, tumblr / American Teenager, Ethel Cain / Anecdote of the Pig, Tory Adkisson / interpretations of A Death in the Family + The Oresteia, Aeschylus / Nightwing: Secret Files and Origins #1 + the Haunting of Bly Manor + Red Hood and the Outlaws #23 / @/petrichara, tumblr / I Didn't Apologize to the Well, Mahmoud Darwish / Infinite Crisis: Secret Files + pinterest / Ruin and Rising, Leigh Bardugo / Red Hood and the Outlaws #26 / The Cruel Prince, Holly Black / pinterest / Red Hood: The Lost Days / Sue Zhao / Red Hood: The Lost Days part II + Red Hood: The Lost Days #4 / I See Boats Moving, Fernando Pessoa / Oedipus the King, TV Tropes / @/devilsmoon, tumblr / Red Hood: The Lost Days + Speeches for Dr Frankenstein, Margaret Atwood / Saving June, Hannah Arrington + embroidered patch / Slay the Princess / unaligned, @/hamletmaschine + Batman: Under the Red Hood / Batman: Under the Red Hood + Batman and Robin #11 + South and West: From a Notebook, Joan Didion / The Good Fight, Ada Limón / Batman: Under the Red Hood / Grief Lessons: Four Plays, Euripides [tr. Anne Carson] / Batman: Under the Red Hood / Slay the Princess / Under the Red Hood / Slay the Princess / @/sainticide, twitter / The Truth About Grief, Fortesa Latifi + Batman: Under the Red Hood / Batman: Under the Red Hood / Ten Legs, Eight Broken, mandana on tiktok / War of the Foxes, Richard Siken + Under the Red Hood + Batman #428 | A Death in the Family / The Unabridged Journals Of Sylvia Plath, Sylvia Plath / Under the Red Hood + Batman #428 | A Death in the Family / @baitmeat, tumblr + Batman: Under the Red Hood (Deluxe Edition) / Origin Story, Desireé Dallagiacomo / Vive, Vive, Traci Brimhall / The Dogs I Have Kissed, Trista Mateer + Batman: Under the Red Hood + Three Jokers / Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth #9 / @/sainticide, twitter + Red Hood and the Outlaws #10 / Would’ve, Could’ve, Should’ve, Taylor Swift / ? + Robin 80th Anniversary 100 Page Super Spectacular / Ep. 4: Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth -- 'Sacrifice and Bliss', Joseph Campbell / White Knight #7 + Heaven, Mieko Kawakami / Forest Fire, Mitski / Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol. 2 #9 + Batman Annual #25 + Free Will Astrology, Rob Brezsny / Letter XV, @/lucidloving / Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 1: REDemption / briscoepark + The Civil War, Anne Sexton [compiled by @/lovejoyparadox here] / @/soapstore, tumblr + I Await the Devil’s Coming, Mary MacLane + Claire C. Holland / @/havingrevelations, tumblr / Meditations in an Emergency, Cameron Awkward-Rich + Deathstroke #34 / Grief Lessons: Four Plays by Euripides [tr. Anne Carson] + Red Hood and the Outlaws

[nightwings-robin]

If Jason is responsible for the death of Felipe Garzonas then Bruce is equally as responsible for the death of Felipe's father, José.

I've seen so many arguments and counter-arguments about whether or not Jason actually pushed that guy off of a building to his death, but I have literally never seen anyone talk about the very next issue which involves his father blaming Jason regardless. I didn't know this was a thing that ever happened in the comics until I started reading them in earnest.

This event is often talked about as a defining moment in Jason's time as Robin (and it is) but I think this little arc actually says a lot more about Bruce and fan's interpretations of Jason's actions than it does about Jason himself.

Like just look at this panel from Batman (1940) #425:

Batman is on top of a pile of cars, José shoots at Batman, the tower of cars falls down on top of José and he dies. It's sort of an accident but then Bruce goes on to imply that this guy's death is also Jason's fault:

Bruce is saying here that actions have consequences - the name of this issue is even titled "Consequences" - but the way he says it to Jason implies that these are the consequences of Jason's actions. In Bruce's mind, Jason "killed" Felipe, so his father wanted to get revenge and ended up killed as well. Bruce lays both of these deaths at Jason's feet but I don't think that's totally fair to Jason.

Regardless of whether or not Jason really did kill Felipe, José Garzonas believes Robin is responsible. This sets off a chain of events that leads to José's death. And one could argue that Bruce is actually the one responsible for Garzonas' death as he was the one on top of the tower of cars that falls and crushes Garzonas. I find it interesting that Bruce doesn't hold himself responsible for that, even though it's an accident. He seems to blame Jason for this death that he himself had a hand in because he seems to blame Jason for Felipe's death that started this all.

Maybe Bruce doesn't even think that Jason pushed Felipe off of that building and that he really was just "spooked" off. But Bruce still blames Jason because Jason didn't try to save Felipe from falling. No matter Jason's real actions or intentions, Felipe still died and his father still blamed Robin.

If we go off of the theory that Felipe really was just spooked by Jason and slipped off the building by accident, then Jason didn’t kill Felipe so much as he didn’t save him. Which Bruce has done to KGBeast for example multiple times (no seriously there's AT LEAST two separate times when Bruce may not have killed KGBeast but certainly and purposefully left him in a situation in which death was eminent, but whatever I digress.)

I think a lot of people don't know that that story is actually a two-parter and that the next issue after Batman (1940) #424 deals with Felipe's father trying to get revenge for his son's death and he very clearly blames Robin for it.

Thoughts and opinions?