#in the plain of nysa

[tyriq-edits]

In the Plain of Nysa (Trigun Greek Mythology AU)

Vash the Stampede

Vash’s Outfit on Olympus

Vash’s Outfit while in Wolfwood’s Sanctuary

Vash, the god of Peace

Based on both the goddesses Persephone and Eirene

He, Tesla and Nai were born from the stars and were raised by the goddess of wisdom Rem, when they descended upon Mt. Olympus.

During the Trojan war he and Tesla were both kidnapped by a group of Trojan soldiers. Tesla later died at the hands of these soldiers while Vash had lost his left arm and nearly joined his sister in an early grave because of the torture they put him through before Nai found him.

His lost arm had gotten replaced by a metal one that Brad (Hephaistos) had built.

While Nai grew to resent mortals for what they did to his siblings, Vash learnt to move on and embrace humanity in its fullest, the good and the bad. "

Because Vash failed to see the warning signs of Nai's growing paranoia, he did not see it coming when Nai locked him up inside the "golden cage", a hidden room in the heart of Mt. Olympus.

Spent over 800 years locked away inside the golden cage with only Nai being able to visit him.

Eventually managed to escape with the help of Meryl (Artemis) and Roberto (A Satyr) and flee to a small sanctuary dedicated to him and Nai in the plain of Nysa.

There he meets the sanctuary's only priest, Wolfwood and slowly begins to realise just how much Nai has corrupted the cult over the past 8 centuries with its followers only seeing peace as either a direct result or mere by-product of war.

pretends to be a mortal temple servant named Eriks while hiding in the sanctuary of Nysa.

spends his day either helping Wolfwood in the temple or helping the people in the town near the sanctuary.

claims his healing powers were a gift he recieved from the gods as a cover-up

For more Information/lore about this AU just look at the in the plain of Nysa tag on my page or just send me an ask in my inbox.

[denzartriste]

I think the reason i don't like most modern or even old-but-still-modern-in-the-grand-scheme-of-things retellings of Persephone and Hades is because most paint Demeter as the bad guy.

The original myth (Homeric Hymn to Demeter) was very clear that, in all this, Zeus was the bad guy. When saying how Gaia was luring Persephone, the next sentence is "All according to the plans of Zeus." (My translation for the myth is this btw, i feel that's important to say because translations can be finicky--which I'm also gonna get to.)

I also think its important to say how the kidnapping happened, so I'm gonna paste it (from the translation I'm reading) :

"And the earth, full of roads leading every which way, opened up under her.

It happened on the Plain of Nysa. There it was that the Lord who receives many guests made his lunge.

He was riding on a chariot drawn by immortal horses. The son of Kronos. The one known by many names.

He seized her against her will, put her on his golden chariot,

And drove away as she wept."

It's a kidnapping, its messed up, but i also want to point out how it isnt a violent assault or rape like many people think it is--either is bad, but one is a deliberate lie meant to make us view Hades much worse and a lie i think actively takes away from this story.

Side tangent, real quick. Hades is the god of the underworld, and so we instinctively think "Oh, yeah, like the devil. He's like the greek Satan." because we think underworld=hell=Satan=hades=hades is bad then. Hades isnt good, because none of the greek gods are good, because these gods arent good and we think they are because christianity, the religion most people are taught about before they can develop their own opinions, tells us that gods are good.

My point there is redundant and repetitive, but its important for this. People think Hades is bad, and when they learn there are gods worse than him (Zeus, mostly they just learn about Zeus) they assume that that means Hades ISNT bad, because people want a good guy to root for and Hades seems like an underdog that never did anything wrong. It's also a common myth (myth as is false and not true, not myth as in greek myth) that in the actual original story Persephone just walks into the underworld/Hades doesn't kidnap her. That's not true, it comes from a 1978 story titled "Lost Goddesses of Early Greece: A Collection of Pre-Hellienic Myths" by Charlene Spretnak to make greek mythology more palable to her young daughter, the changes to all the story was just to do that--and then that led to a whole domino effect of people believing the unsourced thing. Im not gonna stand here and say that hades isnt one of the better gods morally speaking, but i am gonna stand here and say that the competition doesn't pose a high bar and people are not seeing enough nuance in him. Also him being better morally is because he doesnt have many stories--even regarding the myth with him and Persephone he isnt that important past the kidnapping. Fun fact, Persephone actually existed before Hades did. So i think that should be kept in mind when putting Hades on a pedestal, he doesn't have as much material to be bad in, so we see him as not as bad.

People are allowed to view Hades are this good guy or an evil devil, whatever, i will be a bit upset about it but people have the right to have opinions--but people also cant pretend those opinions are educated and well sourced. That's were i get actually upset and think its not just a matter of opinion but it turns into just misinformation.

Tangent over, back to the point.

Demeter hears her daughter and "She sped off like a bird, soaring over land and sea, looking and looking." 

She spends a total of nine days wandering all over the earth looking for information on what happened to her daughter, and i just want to mention that as Persephone is being taken she does think about her Demeter, and she has hope to see her again. (line 35 in the myth)

On the tenth day Hecate comes to Demeter and tells her that she heard the abduction, but didn't see who did it. Both of them go off to Helios and ask him which mortal or god did this.

And here again the myth places blame on Zeus, Helios tells Demeter:

"You shall know the answer, for I greatly respect you and feel sorry for you as you grieve over your child, the one with the delicate ankles. No one else among all the immortals is responsible [aitios] except the cloud-gatherer Zeus himself, who gave her to Hādēs as his beautiful wife."

(I think Hades should get slack for this aswell, he was the one who took her and all that. I want to be clear that i dont personally agree 100 precent with how little blame Hades gets in the myth.)

There's also mention about how Demeter is grieving for her child, Persephone, which is quite obvious--this story is about Demeter and Persephone so much more than it is about Hades and Persephone.

Here im mainly recaping the myth as im reading through it, and its long because the myth is kinda long but i dont feel as if i have much to say about it past the occasional thing here and there until we see persephone again, so ill make the text bold and big to the important part again if you want to skip.

So then Helios is basically like Well y'know you could have a worst guy for your kid to marry, Hades is fine all in all surely :D and then leaves

Demeter than shuns the company of the gods in her grief and anger, visiting mortal cities for a long time.

She's sad again, and im sure theres more about this i could say but right now i have a headache give me grace.

Demeter is approached by four sister (they are unaware she is Demeter because she looks like an old woman right now) and say: "“Who are you, and where are you from, old woman, old among old humans?

Why has your path taken you far away from the polis? Why have you not drawn near to the palace?

There, throughout the shaded chambers, are women

who are as old as you are, and younger ones too,

who would welcome you in word and in deed.”"

Demeter wishes them "kharis" which means ‘I wish you pleasure and happiness from our relationship, starting now’, and tells them her name is "Dōsō", the name suggest someone is a 'giver of gifts'. She says she was given her name by her mother. Demeter says she was taken by pirates (much like how her Persephone was taken by Hades, Demeter is grieving still.) and that she "fled her arrogant captors". (I think this is a clear parellel to what happened to Persephone, and how Demeter wishes she could also 'flee her captor'.)

She then says: "what I want is for you to name for me a house to go to, the house of someone, man or woman, who has phila children to be taken care of.10" The little 10 there is a footnote, the footnote being: "The textual transmission is garbled here, and my translation of this line is tentative"

Next part is long, im tired, it has a lot of footnotes and one is really long and i love footnotes but i also dont wanna read a huge paragraph of them. Theres mention of so many rituals i dont really understand. I am tired, forgive me.

A lot of footnotes, i love footnotes but im going to cry if there is another footnote.

Okay okay, im done being dramatic, but i dont want to spend time deep diving so the basic of what happens next is Demeter tries to make this baby shes taking care of immortal, (surely theres something to unpack there) but she fails because someone sees her burning this baby in fire and obvious they dont assume Ah, this is demeter helping my baby. No. They assume, This crazy woman is burning my baby my baby is on fire my baby is going to die And in some myths demeter leaves the baby in the fire and kills it after that, in the one im reading she doesnt do that and just puts it on the floor. Baby dies either way because she makes a promise on the river of styx that the baby's gonna die eventually and she says a lot and there are a lot of footnotes. Theres a bit more to it, she tells them to build a temple i think to appease her? Listen this post has gotten so long im not gonna say more than i need for this im bad at reading sometimes.

Important part again here!

Demeter then makes the world pretty unlivable, enternal winter basically--people are hungry, dying, whole thing. Zeus notices because hes not getting sacrafices of meat anymore, so hes like this is bad and sends out Iris. Demeter doesnt budge because she wants Persephone back, and they arent giving her persephone back.

Then: "the Father sent out all the other blessed and immortal gods. They came one by one,

they kept calling out to her, offering many beautiful gifts, all sorts of tīmai that she could choose for herself if she joined the company of the immortal gods.

But no one could persuade her in her thinking or in her intention [noēma], angry as she was in her thūmos, and she harshly said no to their words.

She said that she would never go to fragrant Olympus, that she would never send up the harvest of the earth, until she saw with her own eyes her daughter,"

After that unsuccesful thing Zeus sends Hermes "so that he may persuade Hādēs, with gentle words, that he allow holy Persephone to leave the misty realms of darkness

and be brought up to the light in order to join the daimones [the gods in Olympus], so that her mother may

see her with her own eyes and then let go of her anger."

So basically Zeus told Hades it was all cool if he kidnapped Persephone and now they're all in the finding out stage of fuck around.

We see Persephone and Hades for the first time since the adbuction, and Persephone is still very much missing her mother--she is sad, she is not happy, and she is still that way after very a long time (The time Demeter spent with humans is described to be "a long time" and the time in which Demeter has been causing hunger/death, not letting humans farm basically, went on for a year before Zeus paid mind to it.)

After hearing what Hermes has to say Hades, with whats basically described as a 'knowing' smile, tells Persephone to go to her mother, and Persephone is really happy about that. Obviously.

Here's the part where Hades gives Persephone the pomegranate seeds. Heres the quote so i dont have to vaguely recap: "But he [Hādēs] gave her, stealthily, the honey-sweet berry of the pomegranate to eat, peering around him. He did not want her to stay for all time over there, at the side of her honorable mother, the one with the dark robe."

Persephone doesnt willingly take the pomegranate seeds herself, thats something i have to say because sometimes people think she did when she didnt. Persephone isnt given a choice in this, she has to stay for one third of the year with Hades.

Sidenote--this hymm was only preserved on one thing, no original copies, and seemingly the part that explains why Hades giving her those seeds binds to the underworld for a third of the year (in some stories its a diffrent fraction, but the point stays the same.) is teared. And this is like one of the worst parts to not have but i digress. Cons of mythology is that its old and we rarely have the full stories on anything perfectly preserved.

Persephone says to her mom that Hades: "put into my hand the berry of the pomegranate, that honey-sweet food, and he compelled me by biē to eat of it."

I didnt know what biē meant but it seemed important to context so i looked it up and it means "Force/Violence." So, again, hades forced her to eat the seeds--But also i still dont know too much what i means because Hades was described as giving her the seeds stealthily, so i dont know why that would be there if he would fully just force her to eat them? But maybe force could also mean that he forced her to stay in the underworld for a third of the year, i dont know.

Persephone also was with friends when she was lured away and taken, she spents multiple lines saying the names of all of them, and a lot of retellings ignore the fact she has friends or a life outside of this thing that happened to her which is why i wanted to point it out. Retellings of this story typically put themselves on a pedastal compared to the original myth despite the fact they strip Persephone of her entire self that doesnt have to do with Hades.

I think its honestly purely misogyny, they also love to infantilize her, which is weird. From what i can tell the only times in the myth Persephone is referred to as a child is when Demeter is referred to as a mother. Persephone is Demeter's child, so when its relevant they say it. We dont know how old Persephone was when she was kidnapped because it doesnt say how old she is. Because honestly her age isnt that important--yeah, sure, i'd like to know what it is, but only because it would be further information. Gods are usually just old to a point it doesnt matter unless it's specified.

The whole point of this started with me wanting to focus more on Demeter and Persephone so im gonna get back to focusing on them and how retellings treat their relationship.

Retellings ignore any positive aspect of their relationship, which is stupid. They portray the two as clashing, despite the fact that they are describes as like-minded. It feels like cheap forced drama and like they want an easy villain. The actual bad guy in the story is mostly Zeus(and Hades in my opinion, but that's suprisingly more nuanced.) but if retellings make Zeus the bad guy, then they have to say why hes the bad guy. He's the bad guy because he told Hades he could kidnap persephone, but retelling dont like mentioning anything Hades can do thats wrong so obviously that cant happen, right? So making Demeter a villain surves multiple purposes. It takes away blame/complexity to Hades's actions, and in the same breath makes them moral. If Persephone's mom is sooo awful then clearly Hades saved her! Obviously he's good, obviously he's just misunderstood, the kidnapping isnt even a kidnapping if you think about it!!! Demeter being this awful unreadable mother in retellings only serves to make Hades more 'good' and, while you'd assume it adds some depth to persephone it just doesnt. Retellings never make her conflicted in a way that matters, it never makes her miss her mom or her friends--because she doesnt have friends in retellings.

Hades and Persephone's story is complex. It's nuanced in a way i cant even begin to dissect--Arguably they are one of the better relationship between gods, if not one of the best period. They have stories past the Homeric Hymm of Demeter--They have stories past the abduction.

And there's no point in butchering a story when there are myths in greek mythology that are forbidden romance + overbearing mother. If thats something you want, Eros and Psyche are right there. I havent read the myth myself, and my knowledge of them is second hand, but if you want an antagonist mother who doesn't like their relationship look no further. Ancient greece wasnt good to woman, i bet there are more stories with evil moms. Search for them. Leave Demeter out of this, and for the love of all thing stop spreading lies about this myth. There is genuinly no Pre-Homeric versions of it. Stop.

Anyways yeah this is long, have a nice day anyone who read all this. Also this is a good source for the myth and Persephone as a whole if you want to know more

[ecoamerica]

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[somereaderinblue]

I am shocked at the lack of Greek AUs in the VW ao3 tag when they're canonically a greek tragedy. Thus, I decided to try my hand at a Hades & Persephone AU.

Shoutout to @tyriq-edits In the Plain of Nysa AU, this twt post @GlitchTicks & the webtoon Punderworld, which inspired me to write this.

[pink-lemonade-rose]

Kore fell into a “trap,” which was another flower: the narcissus. That flower, a “toy” from which “a hundred other flowers” sprouted, was the result of an agreement between the gods: Ge had made them grow because Zeus wished to please He Who Receives Many, his brother Hades. Heaven, earth, and underworld came together to make that flower appear. This itself indicated the wondrous nature of the event. In what do gods and humans meet? In the contemplation of a flower. The essence of the Mysteries is revealed in this first moment: in looking at something that even the gods view with the same rapture as humans. This was the supreme “vision,” epopteia. All eyes, immortal and mortal, converged on a flower that had sprouted “in the plain of Nysa,” on the Enna plateau. Divine and human eyes were drawn to a certain, clearly defined, point of the visible. Something familiar—and at the same time “a radiant wonder.”

Roberto Calasso, The Celestial Hunter

[theeclecticwitchblog240]

Persephone’s Abduction (Hekate Liminal Rites)

This is an extract from the book Hekate Liminal Rites by the authors Sorita d’Este and David Rankine, published by Avalonia in 2009.

The Homeric Hymn to Demeter was effectively the canon of the Eleusinian mystery told through the tale of the Abduction of Persephone. So let us recount that tale to make the light of Hekate clearer.

Hades was lonely in his role as underworld god, and made an agreement with his brother, Zeus, the ruler of the gods. Hades would abduct his daughter Persephone and make her his bride. To do this he created the beautiful narcissus flower as a lure for her, and the earth goddess Ge grew it as a favour to him. When Persephone was out picking flowers with some of the other maiden goddesses including Athena and Artemis on the Plain of Nysa, she spotted the narcissus and wandered off to pick it. Seizing the moment, Hades came out of the earth in his chariot and abducted Persephone, taking her back into the underworld. The only witnesses were Hekate, who heard the struggle from her cave, and Helios the sun god, who saw it all from the sky.

Persephone called out to her mother from the underworld, and Demeter searched the earth unsuccessfully for nine days looking for her daughter. On the tenth day Hekate approached her and told her what she had heard of the struggle, and suggested they speak to Helios. Helios recounted the whole scene, including informing her that Zeus was responsible for the abduction, but tried to persuade Demeter it was a good match for her daughter. Demeter was inconsolable and wandered the earth, ending up at Eleusis, where she took the role of nursemaid to Queen Metaneira’s son Demophon, disguised as an old woman.

Demeter would not eat or drink until princess Iambê made her laugh by telling her obscene jokes, and Metaneira offered her honeyed wine, but she refused it. Instead she told Metaneira to mix barley, water and pennyroyal and make the drink kykeon, which she drank. Demeter nourished the baby prince Demophon, feeding him on ambrosia and placing him in the flames of the fire every night to make him immortal. One night Queen Metaneira saw this and shrieked in horror, disturbing Demeter. Demeter revealed her divinity and chastised her, saying that Demophon would now be mortal like any other human. She instructed the queen to build a temple to her and that her rites (the Eleusinian mysteries) would be celebrated there. When the temple was built Demeter took up residence in it, and prevented anything from growing for the year, so there were no crops and humanity suffered terribly.

From Olympus, Zeus saw the suffering of humanity, and sent Iris, the messenger of the gods, to summon Demeter. Demeter ignored the summons and all the other gods who came to her offering her gifts to return to Olympus, saying she would not move until she had her daughter back, and neither would the crops grow again.

Zeus then sent Hermes to negotiate with Hades for the return of Persephone. However Hades persuaded Persephone to eat a few pomegranate seeds, binding her to the underworld. Persephone was reunited with her mother and they rejoiced. Hekate joined them and welcomed Persephone back, and from that time she became her guide (Propolos) on her annual journey to and from the underworld. For Zeus ordered that due to the pomegranate seeds she had eaten she now was constrained to spend one third of the year in the underworld with her husband Hades, and the other two thirds with her mother Demeter. That is why the earth was barren for one third of the year, as Demeter mourned the time her daughter was in the underworld away from her.

Further reading:

Hekate Liminal Rites, Sorita d’Este & David Rankine (Avalonia, 2009)

Hekate Her Sacred Fires, various contributors, edited by Sorita d’Este (Avalonia, 2010)

Just sharing the knowledge. I am not the author.

Blessed be!

[lustrous-aim]

l🐝ambrosiabee🐝l’s Greek Book Quotes Collection

Theories

[28] 🚨THEORY #28🚨

(LO EpX&X) In the “Homeric Hymn to Demeter”, it is stated that when Persephone was abducted by Hades, nobody heard her cries for help. // Except for Hecate and Helios. // Will this be retold as them being the only beings (besides Hermes) who witnessed her AOW? [🐝: He was riding on a chariot drawn by immortal horses. The son of Kronos. The one known by many names.         He seized her against her will, put her on his golden chariot... ...drove away as she wept. She cried with a piercing voice,         calling upon her father [Zeus], the son of Kronos, the highest and the best. But not one of the immortal ones, or of human mortals,         heard her voice. Not even the olive trees which bear their splendid harvest.         Except for the daughter of Persaios, the one who keeps in mind the vigor of nature. 25   She heard it from her cave. She is Hekatê, with the splendid headband.        And the Lord Helios [Sun] heard it too, the magnificent son of Hyperion.]

Fun Facts

[18] 🕵️‍♀️FUN FACT #18🕵️‍♀️

(LO EpX) “Zeus honoured Hecate above all others: he gave her splendid gifts - to have a share of the earth and of the barren sea, and from the starry sky as well she has a share in honour, and is honoured most of all by the immortal gods.” - Hesiod, Theogony 411-420

[19] 🕵️‍♀️FUN FACT #19🕵️‍♀️

(LO EpX) "Hades fell in love with Persephone, and with Zeus' help secretly kidnapped her.” - Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 1. 29 (trans. Aldrich) (Greek mythographer C2nd A.D.)

[20] 🕵️‍♀️FUN FACT #20🕵️‍♀️

(LO EpX) “...but the wide-pathed earth yawned there in the plain of Nysa, and the lord, Polydegmon (Host of Many) [Haides], with his immortal horses sprang out upon her...” - Homeric Hymn 2 to Demeter

[102] 🕵️‍♀️FUN FACT #102🕵️‍♀️

(LO EpX) “Zeus and the Gods buried the Titans beneath the wide-pathed earth, and bound them in bitter chains when they had conquered them by their strength for all their great spirit, as far beneath the earth to Tartarus.” - Hesiod, Theogony 617

[iliosflower]

She [Persephone] was filled with a sense of wonder, and she reaches out with both hands

to take hold of the pretty plaything. And the earth, full of roads leading every which way, opened up under her.

It happened on the plain of Nysa, there it was that the Lord who receives many guests made his lunge.

He was riding on a chariot drawn by immortal horses. The son of Kronos, the one known by many names

He seized her against her will, put her on his golden chariot,

and drove away as she wept. She cried with a piercing voice,

calling upon her father, the son of Kronos, the highest and the best

But not one of the immortal ones, or even human mortals,

heard her voice.

Homeric Hymn to Demeter lines 15-23 (partially)

[percabeth4life]

i want to know the original version of hades and persephone story. there are so many versions I've read and i wanted to know which one do you believe in or which one do you think is the real one?

Okay so to start with. If we wanna really go back, Hades came into existence after Persephone. But alas, we aren't speaking of this version.

We are talking about the version where Hades sweeps Persephone away without so much as a hello.

The problem is a lot of the stories of Ancient Greece are well... They're lost. They were primarily shared through oral tradition, and written down over time. And so many stories we may not know. On top of that, many that were written down were lost, destroyed or just vanished, to time. Plus, we don't know how to translate Linear A, but we do Linear B, and there may be a version somewhere in Linear A. Overall, it's just possible we don't know the earlier versions.

But the earliest version we do have is from the Homeric Hymn, from the 7th or 6th B.C.E. This hymn is actually one to Demeter, not Hades or Persephone. The myth, while speaking of the two, is actually about Demeter.

It is, for the time period it is from (and you must keep in mind the culture of the time to understand the myth) a feminist myth.

So the culture of the time.

In the time period women did not have the greatest of rights, something improved upon today, but it means that the Father (and/or King) had full rights to hand their daughters off to another man.

That is what happens in this myth, Zeus tells Hades he may have Persephone's hand... But Persephone did not wish to go. And likewise Demeter was not informed.

By the culture of the time that does not matter, but Demeter *makes* it matter. She searches for her daughter first, then when she discovers where Persephone was taken and who was the cause (Zeus) she is angered.

Demeter then refuses to step upon Olympus, not allow any plants to grow, until she sees her daughter again.

This is obviously a problem, so Zeus sends Hermes down to retrieve Persephone (who btw was unhappy and missed her mom). Persephone leaps up with joy to see her mother again and Hades agrees immediately. But he secretly feeds her pomegranate seeds just to be sure she would return.

The reason this is a feminist myth is because of Demeter, because she refused to accept her king and her daughter's father handing their daughter off in marriage. And she refused to such an extent that they had no choice but to compromise with her (and had Hades not forced Persephone to have the pomegranate seed she wouldn't have even had to compromise).

For the culture of the time, Zeus and Hades were taking actions that were more than okay, nothing they did would be considered wrong. But Demeter stood against it.

Demeter stood for her daughter to not be married off, and demanded she be returned, and Persephone (tho she came to love Hades) was relieved to return to her mother.

Many of the "new adaptions" have Persephone wanting to leave Demeter, wanting to be with her husband, and Demeter being overbearing. But originally it was mutual love, Mother and Daughter missing each other and the Mother fighting to get her daughter back when everything of the time said she had no right to.

And so the myth as we know occurs. This is the myth I ascribe too, being the oldest we have, and I do wish more realized how Demeter's actions are why the myth is so important.

I have copied the Hymn in it's entirety below the cut. It is fairly long and four parts. If you have questions about it, feel free to ask!

Homeric Hymn 2 to Demeter (abridged) (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C7th or 6th B.C.) :

I. HAIDES ABDUCTS PERSEPHONE

"[Demeter's] trim-ankled daughter whom Aidoneus [Haides] rapt away, given to him by all-seeing Zeus the loud-thunderer. Apart from Demeter, lady of the golden sword and glorious fruits, she was playing with the deep-bosomed daughters of Okeanos and gathering flowers over a soft meadow, roses and crocuses and beautiful violets, irises also and hyacinths and the narcissus, which Gaia (the Earth) made to grow at the will of Zeus and to please Polydektor (Host of Many), to be a snare for the bloom-like girl--a marvellous, radiant flower. It was a thing of awe whether for deathless gods or mortal men to see: from its root grew a hundred blooms and it smelled most sweetly, so that all wide heaven (ouranos) above and the whole earth (gaia) and the sea's (thalassa) salt swell laughed for joy. And the girl was amazed and reached out with both hands to take the lovely toy : but the wide-pathed earth yawned there in the plain of Nysa, and the lord, Polydegmon (Host of Many) [Haides], with his immortal horses sprang out upon her--the Son of Kronos (Cronus), Polynomos (He Who has Many Names).

He caught her up reluctant on his golden car and bare her away lamenting. Then she cried out shrilly with her voice, calling upon her father [Zeus], the Son of Kronos, who is most high and excellent. But no one, either of the deathless gods or mortal men, heard her voice, nor yet the olive-trees bearing rich fruit: only tender-hearted Hekate (Hecate), bright-coiffed, the daughter of Persaios (Persaeus), heard the girl from her cave, and the lord Helios (the Sun), Hyperion's bright son, as she cried to her father, the Son of Kronos. But he was sitting aloof, apart from the gods, in his temple where many pray, and receiving sweet offerings from mortal men. So he [Haides], that Son of Kronos, Polynomos (Of Many Names), Polysemantor (Ruler of Many) and Polydegmon (Host of Many), was bearing her away by leave of Zeus on his immortal chariot--his brother's child and all unwilling.

And so long as she, the goddess, yet beheld earth and starry heaven and the strong-flowing sea where fishes shoal, and the rays of the sun, and still hoped to see her dear mother and the tribes of the eternal gods, so long hope clamed her great heart for all her trouble . . . and the heights of the mountains and the depths of the sea ran with her immortal voice : and her queenly mother heard her.

II. DEMETER SEARCHES FOR PERSEPHONE

"Bitter pain seized her [Demeter's] heart, and she rent the covering upon her divine hair with her dear hands : her dark cloak she cast down from both her shoulders and sped, like a wild-bird, over the firm land and yielding sea, seeking her child. But no one would tell her the truth, neither god nor mortal man; and of the birds of omen none came with true news for her. Then for nine days queenly Deo wandered over the earth with flaming torches in her hands, so grieved that she never tasted ambrosia and the sweet draught of nektaros, nor sprinkled her body with water. But when the tenth enlightening dawn had come, Hekate, with a torch in her hands, met her, and spoke to her and told her news : ‘Queenly Demeter, bringer of seasons and giver of good gifts, what god of heaven (theon ouranion) or what mortal man has rapt away Persephone and pierced with sorrow your dear heart? For I heard her voice, yet saw not with my eyes who it was. But I tell you truly and shortly all I know.’

So, then, said Hekate. And [Demeter] the daughter of rich-haired Rheia answered her not, but sped swiftly with her, holding flaming torches in her hands. So they came to Helios (the Sun), who is watchman of both gods and men, and stood in front of his horses: and the bright goddess enquired of him : ‘Helios, do you at least regard me, goddess as I am, if ever by word or deed of mine I have cheered your heart and spirit. Through the fruitless air (aitheros) I heard the thrilling cry of my daughter whom I bare, sweet scion of my body and lovely in form, as of one seized violently; though with my eyes I saw nothing. But you--for with your beams you look down from the bright upper air (aitheros) over all the earth and sea--tell me truly of my dear child if you have seen her anywhere, what god or mortal man has violently seized her against her will and mine, and so made off.’

So said she. And the Son of Hyperion [Helios] answered her : ‘Queen Demeter, daughter of rich-haired Rheia, I will tell you the truth; for I greatly reverence and pity you in your grief for your trim-ankled daughter. None other of the deathless gods is to blame, but only cloud-gathering Zeus who gave her to Aides, her father's brother, to be called his buxom wife. And Aides seized her and took her loudly crying in his chariot down to his realm of mist and gloom. Yet, goddess, cease your loud lament and keep not vain anger unrelentingly : Aidoneus Polysemantor (Ruler of Many) is no unfitting husband among the deathless gods for your child, being your own brother and born of the same stock: also, for honour, he has that third share which he received when division was made at the first, and is appointed lord of those among whom he dwells.’

So he spake, and called to his horses: and at his chiding they quickly whirled the swift chariot along, like long-winged birds. But grief yet more terrible and savage came into the heart of Demeter, and thereafter she was so angered with [Zeus] the dark-clouded Son of Kronos that she avoided the gathering of the gods and high Olympos. She [Demeter] vowed that she would never set foot on fragrant Olympos nor let fruit spring out of the ground until she beheld with her eyes her own fair-faced daughter.

III. THE RETURN OF PERSEPHONE

"Now when all-seeing Zeus the loud-thunderer heard this, he sent Argeiphontes [Hermes] whose wand is of gold to Erebos, so that having won over Aides with soft words, he might lead forth chaste Persephoneia to the light from the misty gloom to join the gods, and that her mother might see her with her eyes and cease from her anger. And Hermes obeyed, and leaving the house of Olympos, straightway sprang down with speed to the hidden places of the earth. And he found the lord Aides in his house seated upon a couch, and his shy mate with him, much reluctant, because she yearned for her mother. But she was afar off, brooding on her fell design becuase of the deeds of the blessed gods. And strong Argeiphontes [Hermes] drew near and said : ‘Dark-haired Aides, ruler over the departed, father Zeus bids me bring noble Persephone forth from Erebos unot the gods, that her mother may see her with her eyes and cease from her dread anger with the immortals; for now she plans an awful deed, to destroy the weakly tribes of earth-born men by keeping seed hidden beneath the earth, and so she makes an end of the honours of the undying gods. For she keeps fearful anger and does not consort with the gods, but sits aloof in her fragrant temple, dwelling in the rocky hold of Eleusis.’

So he said. And Aidoneus, ruler over the dead, smiled grimly and obeyed the behest of Zeus the king. For he straightway urged wise Persephone, saying : ‘Go now, Persephoneia, to your dark-robed mother, go, and feel kindly in your heart towards me : be not so exceedingly cast down; for I shall be no unfitting husband for you among the deathless dods, that am own brother to father Zeus. And while you are here, you shall rule all that lives and moves and shall have the greatest rights among the deathless gods : those who defraud you and do not appease your power with offerings, reverently performing rites and paying fit gifts, shall be punished for evermore.’

When he said this, wise Persephoneia was filled with joy and hastily sprang up for gladness. But he on his part secretly gave her sweet pomegranate seed to eat, taking care for himself that she might not remain continually with grave, dark-robed Demeter. Then Aidoneus Polysemantor (Ruler of Many) openly got ready his deathless horses beneath the golden chariot. And she mounted on the chariot, and strong Argeiphontes [Hermes] took reins and whip in his dear hands and drove forth from the hall, the horses speeding readily. Swiftly they traversed their long course, and neither the sea nor river-waters nor grassy glens nor mountain-peaks checked the career of the immortal horses, but they cleft the deep air above them as they went. And Hermes brought them to the place where rich-crowned Demeter was staying and checked them before her fragrant temple.

And when Demeter saw them, she rushed forth as does a Mainas (Maenad) down some thick-wooded mountain, while Persephone on the other side, when she saw her mother's sweet eyes, left the chariot and horses, and leaped down to run to her, and falling upon her neck, embraced her. But while Demeter was still holding her dear child in her arms, her heart suddenly misgave her for some snare, so that she feared greatly and ceased fondling her daughter and asked of her at once : ‘My child, tell me, surely you have not tasted any food while you were below? Speak out and hide nothing, but let us both know. For if you have not, you shall come back from loathly Aidao and live with me and your father [Zeus], the dark-clouded Son of Kronos and be honoured by all the deathless gods; but if you have tasted food, you must fo back again beneath the secret places of the earth, there to dwell a third part of the seasons every year: yet for the tow parts you shall be with me and the other deathless gods. But when the earth shall bloom with the fragrant flowers of spring in every kind, then from the realm of darkness and gloom thou shalt come up once more to be a wonder for gods and mortal men. And now tell me how he rapt you away to therealm of darkness and gloom, and by what trick did strong Polydegmon (Host of Many) [Haides] beguile you?’

Then beautiful Persephone answered her thus : ‘Mother, I will tell you all without error. When luck-bringing Hermes came, swift messenger from my father the Son of Kronos and the other Sons of Ouranos, bidding me come back from Erebos that you might see me with your eyes and so cease from your anger and fearful wrath against the gods, I sprang up at once for joy; but he secretly put in my mouth sweet food, a pomegranate seed, and forced me to taste against my will. Also I will tell how he rapt me away by the deep plan of my father [Zeus] the Son of Kronos and carried me off beneath the depths of the earth, and will relate the whole matter as you ask. All we were playing in a lovely meadow, Leukippe and Phaino and Elektra and Ianthe, Melite also and Iakhe with Rhodea and Kallirhoe and Melobosis and Tykhe and Okyrhoe, fair as a flower, Khryseis, Ianeira, Akaste and Admete and Rhodope and Plouto and charming Kalypso; Styx too was there and Ourania and lovely Galaxaure with Pallas who rouses battles and Artemis delighting in arrows: we were playing and gathering sweet flowers in our hands, soft crocuses mingled with irises and hyacinths, and rose-blooms and lilies, marvellous to see, and the narcissus which the wide earth caused to grow yellow as a crocus. That I plucked in my joy; but the earth parted beneath, and there the strong lord, Polydegmon (Host of Many) [Haides] sprang forth and in his golden chariot he bore me away, all unwilling, beneath the earth : then I cried with a shrill cry. All this is true, sore though it grieves me to tell this tale.’

So did they then, with hearts at one, greatly cheer each the other's soul and spirit with many an embrace: their hearts had relief from their griefs while each took and gave back joyousness. Then bright-coiffed Hekate came near to them, and often did she embrace the daughter of holy Demeter: and from that time the lady Hekate was minister and companion to Persephone.

IV. GIFT OF AGRICULTURE & THE ELEUSINIAN MYSTERIES

"And all-seeing Zeus sent a messenger to them, rich-haired Rheia, to bring dark-cloaked Demeter to join the families of the gods (phyla theon) : and he promised to give her what rights she should choose among the deathless gods and agreed that her daughter should go down for the third part of the circling year to darkness and gloom, but for the two parts should live with her mother and the other deathless gods. Thus he commanded. And the goddess did not disobey the message of Zeus; swiftly she rushed down from the peaks of Olympos and came to the plain of Rharos, rich, fertile corn-land once, but then in nowise fruitful, for it lay idle and utterly leafless, because the white grain was hidden by design of trim-ankled Demeter. But afterwards, as spring-time waxed, it was soon to be waving with long ears of corn, and its rich furrows to be loaded with grain upon the ground, while others would already be bound in sheaves. There first she landed from the fruitless upper air (aitheros) : and glad were the goddesses to see each other and cheered in heart. Then bright-coiffed Rheia said to Demeter : ‘Come, my daughter; for far-seeing Zeus the loud-thunderer calls you to join the families of the gods, and has promised to give you what rights you please among the deathless gods, and has agreed that for a third part of the circling year your daughter shall go down to darkness and gloom, but for the two parts shall be with you and the other deathless gods: so has he declared it shall be and has bowed his head in token. But come, my child, obey, and be not too angry unrelentingly with the dark-clouded Son of Kronos; but rather increase forthwith for men the fruit that gives them life.’

So spake Rheia. And rich-crowned Demeter did not refuse but straightway made fruit to spring up from the rich lands, so that the whole wide earth was laden with leaves and flowers.

Then she [Demeter] went to [the leaders of Eleusis] . . . she showed them the conduct of her rites and taught them all her mysteries . . . awful mysteries which no one may in any way transgress or pry into or utter, for deep awe of the gods checks the voice. Happy is he among men upon earth who has seen these mysteries; but he who is uninitiate and who has no part in them, never has lot of like good things once he is dead, down in the darkness and gloom. But when the bright goddess had taught them all, they went to Olympos to the gathering of the other gods. And there they dwell beside Zeus who delights in thunder, awful and reverend goddesses. Right blessed is he among men on earth whom they freely love: soon they do send Ploutos (Plutus, Wealth) as guest to his great house, Ploutos who gives wealth to mortal men.

And now . . . queen Deo, be gracious, you and your daughter all beauteous Persephoneia, and for my song grant me heart-cheering substance."

[moonkissedmeli]

Dionysus [Olympian, Greek]

God of: wine, winemaking, grape cultivation, fertility, ritual madness, frenzy, theater, religious ecstasy, grape harvest, epiphany

Zodiac sign: no specific zodiac sign, but many astrologers associate him with Sagittarius and Pisces

Plant: no planet associated with Dionysus

Lineage: Son of Zeus and human Semele, princess of Thebes

Primary cult centres: Eleusis, Naxos, Athens, and Mount Kithairon, but all over Greece

It is said that Dionysus was to be a demigod; when the goddess Hera forced his mother to have Zeus show him her true form. Semele didn't know she would perish if she looked upon a God's true form. Dionysus survived his mother's death because Zeus removed her from his mother and sewed him into his thigh until he could survive on his own. He was raised by the nymphs of rain in Mount Nysa and grew to become the first to cultivate wine; a skill that he taught the humans of Asia before going to Olympus. However - some say that his mother is Persephone and that he represents the underworld in Zeus.

It's thought that the Mycenean Greeks may have been the first to worship him. He is often considered a foreign god, or a god who comes. The Olympians consider him an outsider; however, it is one of the 12 Olympians and a very important god to the Greeks. Along with Demeter, he is one of the supreme earth deities and treated the humans kindly. He is a very generous, but does not take kindly to insults or disrespect.

He is depicted in two ways: older male with a beard and a robe holding a fennel staff with a  pine cone on top or as a youthful man with no beard who is naked and androgynous. The Greeks referred to him in their writings as "man-womanish."

He followed the seasons, in the summer he was happy and lively, in the winter he was unhappy and sluggish. He is an agriculture and vegetation deity. He is also said to be a horned deity, which may have connections to older world horned and bull-horned gods.

Dionysus was also captured by pirates because he looked like the son of a king. He also descended into the underworld to save his mother .

His followers would drink, play music, and become frenzied as their sense of societal conditioning dropped away; they became free of self consciousness and became one with Dionysus.

If you are looking to overcome self consciousness, rewrite your social conditioning, being more in touch with nature perhaps by farming or gardening, Dionysus is a great god to work with. If you are having troubles with fun or enjoyment in your life, even despair, he can help you get back to a happier version of yourself. He is the god of mental health, so you can look to him for support in all mental health areas. As a God of epiphany, you may look to him when trying to reach deeper levels of spiritual enlightenment or exploring your consciousness. Dionysus is also a wonderful god for musicians and artists! You can also call on Dionysus to protect you while you're under the influence.

Festivals:

Dionysia: His oldest festival; the celebration of the cultivation of wines. Was in the month of Peseideon [December/January], often around the winter Solstice. It was a procession where people carried phalluses, long loaves of bread, and other food offerings. This is the festival that began the tradition of Greek plays, as may performances and drama competitions occurred at this festival.  

Anthestria: Celebration of the beginning of spring. It was three days. The Greeks said the dead came up from the underworld to attend the festival. The first day was when they opened the win vats and mixed the win in honor of Dionysus. The second day people drank and it was a quiet and secret type of celebration. The wife of the basileus was given to Dionysus in a ritual marriage. The last day was dedicated to the dead and offerings were also given to Hermes.

Symbols

Wine, partying, music, phallus, chalice, two-handed goblets, horns, theatre [comedy & tragedy]

Animals: bulls, big cats especially leopard/panthers, serpents, goats [mythological animals, centaurs, sileni, and satyrs]

Plants/Herbs: fennel, pinecones, grapes, ivy, trees, petrified wood, fig tree, sap

Scents: frankinsense, musk, dirt scent, wine, rain, grape

Colors: purple, green, black, red

Crystals: amethyst (some thing he created it), amber, gold

Offerings

fennel, pine cones, grapes, ivy, grapes, pine needles, apple seeds, orchis root, thistle, comedic masks, phallus shaped items, wine, cannabis, blood, sap, fruit, pastries, flowers

Ways to worship:

Therapy, working on your mental health, overcoming fears or anxieties, reading mental health help books or spirituality [by reputable authors], meditate, and mental health care

Partying, drinking wine, going to festivals or theatre, dancing

Playing music, writing him music, making party/dance playlists for him, sing or pray to him, singing his hymns (bonus points if you're under the influence or drinking grape juice; while doing it). Try your hand at acting.

Leave offerings at trees [environmentally safe, biodegradable natural offerings! Never leave something that could harm the flora & fauna of  your area]

Making wine, make ivy wreaths, grow ivy/trees/plants

Advocate for old growth forests & reforestation

Wear leopard print

Watch comedies or tragedies or read Greek plays

Supporting the LGBTQ+ community, Dionysus was very androgynous, sometimes it is said he was raised as a girl and that he is pansexual - he would not look kindly on those who discriminate against this group!

*As a disclaimer, you do not need to party, drink, do drugs or anything to worship Dionysus. He is a really multifaceted god. Madness and frenzy really are in the ritual sense -- this does not always mean becoming completely ecstatic and out of touch with reality. This can also look like a deep meditation or even dancing until you're exhausted to reach him in higher plains of consciousness.

Epithets

Dimetor - of two mothers/twice born

Eleutherios - Liberator

Acratophorus - Bringer of unmixed wine

Aegobolus  - Goat shooter

Agrios - Wild

Briseus  - who prevails

Bromios - Roaring

Endendros - He in the tree

Mystes - of mysteries

Tauros - A bull

*there are many more

Sources: wikipedia, briticanna, "Encyclopedia of Greek and Roman Mythology", theoi, greekgodsandgodesses.net

[classicslesbianopinions]

okay i’m doing this actually. yet another post about hades and persephone.

so like... i have been reminded via the ask box that there are people out there who argue that somehow, the interpretation that hades and persephone had an equal relationship has more “evidence” than the interpretation that persephone was a child that hades kidnapped. this is, as they say, a HOT TAKE.

i’m putting the rest under a read more because this got away from me.

TL:DR the homeric hymn to demeter clearly depicts persephone as a child who hades unwillingly kidnapped, and the push to say otherwise is representative of rape culture.

first let’s talk about the idea of “evidence.” when it comes to mythology, it’s all fictional stories anyway, so there’s no one factual interpretation that is always correct. you can’t say “oh but actually, this happened!” because it didn’t happen. and the ancient greeks had a million different versions of every story.

THAT BEING SAID, though, when it comes to figuring out what stories were told, we have to look at primary sources, ie. tellings of those myths over time. as far as i’m aware, the main primary source recounting persephone’s capture is the homeric hymn to demeter. i’m going to post an english translation by gregory nagy (link). i would look at the greek myself but i have to do a lot more translation today and this is how i’m procrastinating so i don’t want to use my translation brain. i actually really like this translation though (except he does the thing where he just puts random greek words in instead of translating them)

[image description: screenshot of lines 15-24 of Gregory Nagy’s translation to the Homeric hymn to Demeter. Lines read as follows:

She [Persephone] was filled with a sense of wonder, and she reached out with both hands to take hold of the pretty plaything.[2] And the earth, full of roads leading every which way, opened up under her. It happened on the Plain of Nysa. There it was that the Lord who receives many guests made his lunge. He was riding on a chariot drawn by immortal horses. The son of Kronos. The one known by many names. He seized her against her will, put her on his golden chariot, And drove away as she wept. She cried with a piercing voice, calling upon her father [Zeus], the son of Kronos, the highest and the best. But not one of the immortal ones, or of human mortals, heard her voice. Not even the olive trees which bear their splendid harvest. End image description]

so let’s look at the two elements of this story that are important to me and how that passage supports them:

1. persephone is a child. “She was filled with a sense of wonder, and she reached out with both hands to take hold of the pretty plaything” pretty clearly implies this. later on demeter also calls persephone a “sweet young seedling.” again someday i’m going to look at this in greek and the argument will hold up a lot better but that’s what i’ve got for today.

2. persephone went against her will. this is super clear here! “She cried with a piercing voice, calling upon her father, the son of Kronos, the highest and the best. But not one of the immortal ones, or of human mortals, heard her voice.” the next part of the poem is about how persephone screamed and cried all the way to the underworld and that’s what alerted demeter to the situation. how can you read this and think “oh but she wanted to be there” or “oh but maybe she and hades had a good relationship after that?”

i would be happy to read other primary sources that tell this story in a positive or romantic way where persephone actually wanted to be taken down to the underworld. but when i say “primary sources” i mean ancient greek sources, in or translated from ancient greek, that support that argument.

but then what does it mean that people want to interpret this as happy and romantic? i already said that myths are nebulous and fictional and it’s okay to interpret them in different ways. and i stand by that, but i think we have to look at what it means for our society that people want to romanticize this specific myth. how many times have we heard “but maybe she wanted it?” to allegations of rape or sexual assault? yes persephone is a fictional character but the way we talk about her reflects the way we talk about real women.

and if you’re like... a woman who’s been into this story for a while and you’re reading this like “hey! i didn’t do any of that!” like. you’re right. this isn’t something an individual does-- this is cultural. it’s a retelling that happens over hundreds of years. it starts with the ancient greeks normalizing age gaps and not treating women as full citizens and humans, and it ends with people today not realizing the full weight of their favorite greek myth. this happens over hundreds of years, especially when men are the ones telling the story.

and like... even with all that i understand wanting everything to be okay and wanting to be like “well maybe everyone is happy!” but by doing that we ignore the hard truth here: women and girls are still kidnapped, raped, and abused every single day. older men are grooming, “dating,” and marrying much younger girls and women. we can’t just erase this by telling a nicer story.

if you want to tell a story about a happy and healthy relationship, choose a different relationship. make up your own characters. write fanfiction for a tv show with a happy and healthy relationship.

in conclusion i give you my favorite renaissance sculpture

[image description: an unpainted stone sculpture by Gian Lorenzo Bernini titled Pluto and Proserpina. Pluto, or Hades, an adult man with a full beard and a crown, is lifting Proserpina, or Persephone, his hands digging into her skin. Proserpina, a young girl, has one hand braced against Pluto’s head and is clearly in motion as she struggles for escape. A tear is visible on her face. Both figures are naked except for a cloth that seems to be falling off of Proserpina’s shoulder. end image description]

[wlw-lovestruck-fiction]

How about some Runa/Emeril headcanons?)

Warnings: Minor Spoilers Somewhat OOC 10-minute challenge Written by: @evoedbd​

++++++++++++

Zain first suspected Runa and Emeril were dating when he didn’t decorate the froth on Emeril’s hot chocolate. Tired after a shift, he simply put the plain (but still delicious) hot chocolate on the counter. Before anybody could even correct him Runa was there, all scowls and sharp tongue. A sloppily drawn heart later, Emeril came bounding in, a spring in her step and a smile on her face. Upon seeing the heart, she cooed, bashfully thanking a shockingly even more bashful Runa for her efforts. It seemed only Zain questioned how Emeril knew it was Runa, but the entire crew were merciful enough to let Runa’s blush go unmentioned.

Lucien’s suspicions were a more gradual build. Numerous occasions of butting heads with Runa over the white chocolate and raspberry scones. Somehow, without fail, Runa would manage to hijack one in the morning, often with a single line, an excuse which always involved Emeril. It wasn’t until he saw Emeril laughing one morning, nibbling on his creation as Runa leaned against the hostess podium that it clicked.

Roman noticed after one too many requests for a quick supper. The first time Emeril shyly asked, it was cute. The fact she seemed so keen for it to be a nice, romantic picnic was kind of sweet. The second time, a similar story, save her requests changed. By the ninth or tenth, Roman recognized many of the foods were geared towards Runa’s tastes… and that Runa always seemed to vanish on those same days.

Liora caught on once she saw Emeril’s little siblings rush to Runa, all bright smiles and wide, innocent eyes as they pleaded for a story. She remained silent as Runa relented, her own lips twitched a little too much into a smile to be anything but thrilled by the attention. The familiarity didn’t end there. Emeril’s mother also seemed fond of Runa, expressing what a wonderful young lady Runa could be. The wear on many of the books was also not lost upon Liora, who silently approved of the unusual combination.

Nysa figured it out when some customers began yelling at Emeril. As if drawn by magnets, Runa descended like the most unholy of storms, eyes flashing with lightning as her sharp tongue played the thunder. By the time Runa had finished, the customers had all but fled, profusely apologizing to an awestruck Emeril. From that day, it became an unspoken rule. Do not mess with Emeril, less you earn the ire of the fieriest waitress to step foot into Sweets.

Sometimes, one could find Runa laying quietly across Emeril’s lap, seemingly enchanted by the younger girl’s sweet voice as she read out every mystery novel to the jaded waitress. The smitten expressions across Runa’s face were second only to the way Emeril’s fingers casually carded through pink hair as she stroked Runa’s head. There, Dante too slumbered, curled in Runa’s arms, across her chest. Runa was sharp-minded, able to pick out the little details and suspects with ease. Halfway through, she usually had predicted how it would end correctly. Of course, she never said that out loud. Instead, she lay there, pretending to guess wrong to lure out all the giggles and playful shushes. She never had the heart to disclose that she’d been raised by elitist, social-climbing bigots, so of course, she’d been forced to read all the classics. How could she let this beautiful woman know that her passion had once been forced upon Runa? So, she continued to guess wrong, interrupting with playful little barbs and a deviously innocent expression. Emeril gave herself away during dinner. When her excitement at seeing Runa became so infectious that her magic began to leak, leading the dining room to erupt into laughter and song. Only, nobody could agree upon the song. The chaos was immediate, a crescendo worthy of the novels Emeril loved. Song, joy and laughter so potent tears flowed from every eye.  

Runa gave herself away in her little things, her gentle affections and things only Emeril could get away with. Eventually, she committed herself, and gave herself away by kneeling in the middle of dinner service, where she produced a gorgeous ring with little gems the color of lavender, forming Runa’s sigil, with a central stone the precise hue of Runa’s eyes in the center. It was with a bright smile which Runa gave herself away, asking the biggest question of her life. “Marry me?”

[tyriq-edits]

In the Plain of Nysa

Millions Knives

Nai, the God of War

God of War and Vash’s twin brother

Younger brother of Tesla (Goddess of Victory)

Raised by Rem (Goddess of Wisdom)

Based on Ares and partly Demeter

Respected and rather well liked among the other Olympians (except Meryl)

After the death of his sister at the hands of mortal Soldiers during the Trojan war and Vash losing his left arm to the same soldiers, he became fiercely protective/possessive of his twin brother

Some time after the end of the Trojan War he built a giant "cage” under Mt. Olympus and locked Vash inside it for nearly a Millennium.

When any of the other Olympians asked him regarding Vash’s whereabouts he’d tell them his brother was travelling through the mortal realm, which seemed to shut the majority of the other gods up regarding this issue and the Golden Cage beneath their feet remained a secret only he and Vash knew about.

After Vash managed to escape the the golden Cage with the help of Meryl and Roberto, rather than an eternal Winter like Demeter in the Myth of Persephone & Hades, Nai, overcome with rage, created a giant war that would slowly spread across all of ancient Greece.

For more Information/lore about this AU just look at the in the plain of Nysa tag on my page or just send me an ask in my inbox.

As always thanks to my friend Stephan for helping me with this drawing of Nai and this AU in general. Please check out his art on instagram!

Please do not Tag this AU as Plantcest

[More ramblings about Nai’s design under the cut.]

Nai’s Design as you may have gathered is very much based on your typical Greek Hoplite Soldier

He was supposed to also wear a helmet but i was so proud of how the hair had turned out that I did not want to cover it up haha.

Around the time that this story takes place in, classical greece, bronze armours like these had actually fallen out of fashion in favour of iron ones so I just like to think that Nai, being over 1000 years old, is just very traditional or never fully mentally moved on from the Trojan War so he kept his old Bronze Plate Armour all those years while still adopting the newer Hoplite Warfare system (which used spears and Phalanx formations in comparison to the open battle fields and sword fights of the Mycenean Age/the Trojan War)

As for Nai‘s spear, an actual Dory could be up to 4 meters high, especially in the case of Macedonian ones. But making him run around with one of those would be impractical for many reasons as you may assume. The half-moon shaped spikes right underneath the actual Spear‘s spike is the part I stole from ancient greek hunting spears. The point of them was to keep wild animals like boars at a safe distance from you. Because boars, even if you pierce their skull with the actual spear‘s tip would just keep on running towards you even if it meant impaling their own brain on the entire spear Dracula Style. If you look closely you can kind of see it on the Meleager Sarcophagus.

[stormcloudrising]

The Secret Song of Florian and Jonquil Part 7-Section 2: Sansa Stark, Daughter of Coincidences and Honey Bees

June 7, 2020

Right up front, I should explain that this chapter is labeled section 2 because it’s the second chunk of Part 7. This particular chapter turned out to be overly long and so I had to split it into two. I advise you to go back and first read part one HERE or else you will miss the proper flow and important clues in support of the theory.

In the first section of part 7, we started looking at the symbolic role honey and bees plays in Sansa’s arc. I showed how in metaphorically connecting her to Persephone, George is also linking her to the ancient tale of Ellyn Ever Sweet who possibly might have been the ancient Nissa Nissa

I ended the section by showing how Sansa’s role as the symbolic Persephone of the story positions her as the Queen of Winter in the North and how and why Jon is set up as her Hades/Pluto counterpart. Now let’s jump right back in as we look a bit more at Persephone’s abduction and some interesting details that further ties her to Sansa Stark.

Hades and Persephone by IrenHorrors/Deviant Art/Creative Commons

As the location of Persephone's abduction is called a vale, one would expect it to be a mountainous region as that is generally the location for this type of landscape. And that is of course the case.

In Greek mythology, the mountainous district of Nysa (Greek: Νῦσα), variously associated with Ethiopia, Libya, Tribalia, India or Arabia by Greek mythographers, was the traditional place where the rain nymphs, the Hyades, raised the infant god Dionysus, the "Zeus of Nysa.”

Wikipedia

Coincidentally, the flower used to lure Demeter’s daughter into Hades’ hands was none other than the *Narcissus-Jonquilla,* which I’ve proposed is the mysterious magical blue flower that represents the daughters of Winterfell. It also happens to be the name of a mysterious ancient figure closely identified with Sansa Stark.

Here is Dany’s vision of the Blue Winter Rose from her visions in the House of the Undying followed by a few stanzas of the very long Hymn to Demeter. Does the description of the narcissus-jonquilla not read a lot like how George describes the blue winter roses…particularly how its sweet fragrance fills the air?

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness...

A Clash of Kings, Daenerys IV

5  She [Persephone] was having a good time, along with the daughters of Okeanos, who wear their waistbands slung low. She was picking flowers: roses, crocus, and beautiful violets. Up and down the soft meadow. Iris blossoms too she picked, and hyacinth. And the narcissus, which was grown as a lure for the flower-faced girl by Gaia [Earth]. All according to the plans of Zeus. She [Gaia] was doing a favor for the one who receives many guests [Hādēs].

10 It [the narcissus] was a wondrous thing in its splendor. To look at it gives a sense of holy awe to the immortal gods as well as mortal humans. It has a hundred heads growing from the root up. Its sweet fragrance spread over the wide skies up above. And the earth below smiled back in all its radiance. So too the churning mass of the salty sea.

15  She [Persephone] was filled with a sense of wonder, and she reached out with both hands to take hold of the pretty plaything.2 And the earth, full of roads leading every which way, opened up under her. It happened on the Plain of Nysa. There it was that the Lord who receives many guests made his lunge. He was riding on a chariot drawn by immortal horses. The son of Kronos. The one known by many names. He seized her against her will, put her on his golden chariot,  

20  And drove away as she wept. She cried with a piercing voice, calling upon her father [Zeus], the son of Kronos, the highest and the best. But not one of the immortal ones, or of human mortals, heard her voice. Not even the olive trees which bear their splendid harvest.

Homeric Hymns, To Demeter ll. 5–20

Also, note how the 20th stanza reads a lot like this passage from when Sansa dreams of the symbolic Others.

That night Sansa dreamed of the riot again. The mob surged around her, shrieking, a maddened beast with a thousand faces.

Everywhere she turned she saw faces twisted into monstrous inhuman masks. She wept and told them she had never done them hurt, yet they dragged her from her horse all the same. "No," she cried, "no, please, don't, don't," but no one paid her any heed. She shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, for Florian and Ser Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard. Women swarmed over her like weasels, pinching her legs and kicking her in the belly, and someone hit her in the face and she felt her teeth shatter. Then she saw the bright glimmer of steel. The knife plunged into her belly and tore and tore and tore, until there was nothing left of her down there but shiny wet ribbons.

A Clash of Kings - Sansa IV

In antiquity, the narcissus-jonquilla was considered sacred to Hades and Persephone and believed to grow along the River Styx. Another interesting detail about the flower is that many biblical scholars also consider it to be the famous *Rose of Sharon* referenced in “A Song of Solomon.” The jonquil flower being considered a rose—another one of those coincidences I’ve been talking about.

The name "rose of Sharon" first appears in Hebrew in the Tanakh. In the Shir Hashirim ('Song of Songs' or 'Song of Solomon') 2:1, the speaker (the beloved) says "I am the rose of Sharon, a rose of the valley". The Hebrew phrase חבצלת השרון (ḥăḇatzeleṯ hasharon) was translated by the editors of the King James version of the Bible as "rose of Sharon"; however, previous translations had rendered it simply as "the flower of the field" (Septuagint "ἐγὼ ἄνθος τοῦ πεδίου", Vulgate "ego flos campi",Wiclif "a flower of the field"). Contrariwise, the Hebrew word ḥăḇatzeleṯ occurs two times in the scriptures: in the Song, and in Isaiah 35:1, which reads, "the desert shall bloom like the rose." The word is translated "rose" in the King James version, but is rendered variously as "lily" (Septuagint "κρίνον", Vulgate "lilium", Wiclif "lily"), "jonquil" (Jerusalem Bible) and "crocus" (RSV); Narcissus ("rose", Cyclopaedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature)

Wikipedia

It seems quite likely that Martin named the main character in Sansa’s favorite stories after the flower Persephone was picking when she was abducted. This makes thematic sense as he has so strongly associated Sansa with the real-world mythical Persephone.  It also seems not quite a coincidence that he calls the flower a rose in his story when it was called by the same name in one of the most famous and oldest poems in the world that just happens to be centered around a renewal myth. 

Coincidences again abound when you look at the area where the famous biblical flower is said to have grown. Here is the description of the landscape of Sharon Israel in ancient times.

The Plain of, the area where the coastal plain widens south of the slopes of Mt. Carmel, extending about thirty miles south to the Yarkon River north of Joppa. It varies from about eight to twelve miles in width. In Israelite times, the dunes supported an impenetrable oak forest. Pastureland would have been on the fringe of the forest (1Chr 27:29). The rose of Sharon is kind of a crocus growing as a “lily among brambles” (Song 2:1-2). Thus the biblical picture of Sharon is a forbidding jungle of oaks and swampy marshes rather than a fertile or productive plain.

Harper Collins Bible Dictionary

Is it just me or does the description of ancient Sharon remind you a lot of the description of the marshy landscape of the River Styx that led to Greek Underworld where Hades absconded with Persephone? It also matches the description of the Vale of Nysa…a mountainous region that was the land of the rain nymphs.  

Martin named the ancient female character at the center of one of the great mysteries of his story, Nissa Nissa and there are many different meanings to the word. We’ve seen that it was the name of the Vale from where Persephone was kidnapped.  In Hebrew it means, “wonders.”  In the Indian language it is a form of the name Nisha, which means “night.”  In Scandinavian countries it’s the name for a friendly elf or fairy (COTF like short person), and in Greek, it means beginning (first greenseer). Every single one of these meanings fit with the clues George has dropped about Nissa Nissa.

The fascinating thing about the name Nissa as I’ve noted, is that like many words where the second letter is an “i,” a “y” is sometimes substituted in its place. And so, another way to spell Nissa is Nyssa.  And it is in analyzing the second spelling that I discovered another one of those coincidences.

Nyssa also refers to a Greek water nymph, which of course with Sansa’s matriarchal line descending from House Tully with their fish symbolism is a point of interest. However, what I think is more significant is that Nyssa is also a genus of deciduous trees within the family Cornaceae. Nyssa trees are highly tolerant of wet soil and tend to grow along the borders of rivers, swamps and ponds (those coincidences are really running rampant).

Named after the Greek water nymph, there are many different varieties of the genus— Nyssa sylvatica, Nyssa aquatica, Nyssa biflora to name a few.  Most interesting of all about the species of tree is that they produce a very expensive form of honey.  Here is a description of Nyssa ogeche from Wikipedia.

Tupelos of the species Nyssa ogeche are valued as honey plants in the southeastern United States, particularly in the Gulf Coast region.  They produce a very light, mild-tasting honey. In Florida, beekeepers keep beehives along the river swamps on platforms or floats during tupelo bloom to produce certified tupelo honey, which commands a high price on the market because of its flavor.  Monofloral honey made from the nectar Nyssa ogeche has such a high ratio of fructose to glucose that it does not crystallize.

The Apalachicola River in the Florida Panhandle is the center for tupelo honey. The honey is produced wherever tupelo trees (three species) bloom in southeastern USA, but the purest and most expensive version (which is certified by pollen analysis) is produced in this valley. In a good harvest year, the tupelo honey crop produced by a group of specialized Florida beekeepers has a value approaching $1,000,000.

Wikipedia

WOW, another coincidence! Nyssa is also the name of a honey making tree. And not just any honey making tree but one that grows and thrives in marshlands and swamps that look a lot like the Vale of Nysa from where Hades kidnapped Persephone as well as the River Styx, which leads to Hades, Persephone’s winter home.

Oh, and if you are looking for another coincidence, do you remember those pomegranate seeds that Hades got Persephone to eat?  Well, look at how they are described in the Hymn to Demeter (410th Stanza).

- then I sprang up for joy, but he, stealthily,

- put into my hand the berry of the pomegranate, that honey-sweet food,

- and he compelled me by biē to eat of it.

Harvard University’s Center for Hellenic Studies

George is certainly pushing the concept of honey as the food of the gods and that it should be associated with Sansa Stark.

By the way, the theory that Nissa Nissa was the first greenseer is not mine. I first heard of it from Lucifer Means Lightbringer on YouTube and while not positive, I think that he is the originator. However, while I agree with his theory, his reasoning is different from mine as neither he nor anyone else…at least not that I’m aware have associated Nissa Nissa with Ellyn Ever Sweet.

As  I’ve theorized at the end of the previous chapter of this series, I believe that Jonquil in addition to being the original blue Winter Rose and the female progenitor of House Stark, was also the corpse queen. Was she also Nissa Nissa? That possibility is certainly in play.

However, it’s also possible that she was Nissa Nissa’s daughter or possibly even a sister.   Whether she was Nissa Nissa or a female relative, I think she turned dark(e) at some point. Keep in mind that dark does not have to mean evil. It can simply mean vengeful…a philosophy that I would not be shocked to see Sansa take up.

Those of you who have read some of my previous essays are probably saying to yourself, “the legend of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa is an eastern one while the stories about Ellyn Ever Sweet and Symeon Star Eyes have Westerosi origins.” “Also, you said in the previous essays that the Bloodstone Emperor and the Amethyst Empress were Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa. Now you’re saying there are a different couple. Which is it?”

“You also suggested that Azor Ahai was a dragon Lord? Dragons are from the East, not Westeros.”

I will answer the last question first. Yes, I did agree with the theory proposed by others in the fandom that Azor Ahai was a dragon lord and I still believe it’s will quite likely turn out to have been the case. As I’ve discussed HERE and HERE, George has dropped some serious hints that there were dragon lords in Westeros…including in the Vale region in the ancient past. In fact, the Winged Knight aka the King of the Bees was quite likely a dragon lord.  

The Arryn House legend states that the Winged Knight rode a giant falcon and controlled eagles and killed a griffin to claim the Vale. Some maesters theorize that the giant falcon in question was a dragon seen from afar. Then we get this in one of the Tyrion TWOW preview chapters and we see that dragons do indeed look like giant birds of prey when viewed from a distance.

Three hundred yards from where he stood rose the Wicked Sister, her long arm swinging up with a clutch of corpses—chunk-THUMP—and there they flew, naked and swollen, pale dead birds tumbling boneless through the air. The siege camps shimmered in a gaudy haze of rose and gold, but the famous stepped pyramids of Meereen hulked black against the glare. Something was moving atop one of them, he saw. A dragon, but which one?  At this distance, it could as easily have been an eagle.  A very big eagle.

The Winds of Winter, Tyrion I

George also compares dragons to eagles  and hawks in the Princess and the Queen.

History calls the struggle between King Aegon II and his sister Rhaenyra the Dance of the Dragons, but only at Tumbleton did the dragons ever truly dance. Tessarion and Seasmoke were young dragons, nimbler in the air than their older brothers had been. Time and time again they rushed one another, only to have one or the other veer away at the last instant. Soaring like eagles, stooping like hawks, they circled, snapping and roaring, spitting fire, but never closing.

The Princess and the Queen

In regard to the contradiction of three different couples being Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa, well they were really not three couples. Rather, it’s a case of comparative mythology and a major society changing calamity, which impacted such a large portion of the known world that legends and tales were told in all parts of Planetos about the events and the participants. Each location shaped their own tales and legends about the proceedings and people involved but ultimately, it was the same story and cast of characters.

From the Great Empire of the Dawn, we get the legend of the Bloodstone Emperor, the Amethyst Empress and the tale of the blood usurpation; from Asshai, we get the story of Azor Ahai killing his wife Nissa Nissa; and from Westeros, we get the myth of Ellyn Ever-Sweet who married the King of the Bees. All three are about the same individuals and event. It’s just been distilled and reinterpreted though the eyes of different cultures. The three myths also clue us the reader in on different parts of the story.

The legend of the Bloodstone Emperor and the Amethyst Empress tells us that the ancient couple were siblings and he usurped her throne though some type of blood betrayal. Through the tale Salladhor Saan tells Davos about Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa, George is informing us that they were husband and wife and that the blood betrayal and usurpation involved her sacrificial killing at his hands. And finally, the myths about Ellyn Ever Sweet and the Winged Knight tells us that she was a Child of the Forest and he was a dragon lord. Three different couples whose story are ultimately one.

However, there are actually 4 ancient “couples” whose story is at the center of the great mystery that involves the Others. Three I’ve mentioned above and the fourth as you might expect, I proposed was Florian and Jonquil. The  latter are jointly mentioned in the text more than any other ancient pairing, whose names and association are only mentioned once or twice. The names of Florian and Jonquil appear on numerous occasions and each time is centered on Sansa Stark.

Does this mean that Sansa is the modern day Nissa Nissa? Well, as I’ve argued, I think that she is a greenseer and so that possibility certainly exist. However, it is not definitely the case. She also might be the modern-day version of the ancient daughter of Nissa Nissa. While in previous essays, I’ve argued that Sansa was the modern day Nissa Nissa, upon further analysis, I’ve changed my mind and now I am more incline to think that she represents her daughter.

There are a few reasons why I think that she represents the daughter and not the mother. First and most importantly is because Sansa is without a doubt, the modern-day Jonquil, whom I’ve argued was the first Blue Winter Rose of House Stark. Secondly, I also believe that Jon has been set up to be the modern-day Florian. If this turns out to be the case and I strongly think it will, then Sansa cannot be the Nissa Nissa character because Jon is not the true Azor Ahai.

Why do I say that Jon is not Azor Ahai? Well, for obvious reason, I think that Dany more fits the described prophecy about AA. Also, while Melisandre presents Azor Ahai as a hero, clues suggest that he was not. There is the little thing that has to do with him killing his wife. However, what convinces me that Sansa and Jon are not Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa is that all textural clues point to the story of AA and NN being one about the usurpation of the rights of the woman with the man stealing her throne.

The Bloodstone Emperor killed the Amethyst Empress in what is known as the blood betrayal. Nissa Nissa, who clues suggest was the first greenseer was killed by her husband Azor Ahai, most likely in a quest for power. Finally, the King of the Bees usurped the right of Ellyn Ever Sweet, the queen bee.

So far, what we’ve learned about Florian and Jonquil suggests that their tale was a love story. It’s possible that we find out later that it turned dark but nothing in the text has so far suggested that Florian killed Jonquil in a quest to usurp her claim as was the case with the other ancient couples. And Jon has made it abundantly clear that he does not want to usurp Sansa’s right to Winterfell.

If usurpation is not in play between the two, then they are probably not the modern day Nissa Nissa and Azor Ahai. Of course, we don’t know what will happen when Jon finds out that Robb made him his heir. On the other hand, as Bran is still alive, it would be his rights that Jon would potentially be usurping because even though Sansa is the eldest, the right of inheritance first goes through the male line. Nonetheless, I expect Bran to give up his claim to the North.

Another reason to suggest that they are not Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa is because Jon is the Hades stand-in as the symbolic Lord of the Northern underworld. His death and eventual return reinforce this point. And while Hades/Pluto abducts Persephone, he does not kill her. 

The tale of the Lord and Lady of the Underworld and Jon and Sansa being their stand-ins is also one of the reasons I’ve proposed that they will reunite in the Vale. Hades has to steal his Lady away to the underworld as the earth opens up in the textural stand-in for Vale of Nysa.

When Hades drove his chariot through the underworld, it must have sounded and felt like the earth was shaking. And when the ground opened up and his chariot burst forth, it must have looked and felt like an earthquake. It might even possibly have been described as like “giants waking from the earth.” What are earthquakes if not the earth opening up and what is a god if not a giant among men.

A warhorn, a bloody great warhorn.

"Yes," Mance said. "The Horn of Winter, that Joramun once blew to wake giants from the earth."

A Storm of Swords - Jon X

There are strong hints that waking giants is suggestive of earthquakes. And as I touched upon HERE, there are even stronger hints that there will be some type of disaster in the Vale resulting in an avalanche and the collapse of the Giant Lance.

Do I think it means actual giants or a Hades like character will arise from underground? Of course not! What I’m proposing is that symbolically when the earth opens…caused by meteors hitting Planetos, resulting in several earthquakes and the  giant lance collapsing in the Vale, the true symbolic Hades will descend from the northern underworld to claim his bride.

My theory is that Jonquil was the daughter of Nissa Nissa who may have then gone on a quest to avenge the killing of her mother and somehow ended up becoming the corpse queen and creating the Others. Now of course, in terms of her motive, this is pure speculation on my part as there is not sufficient evidence to determine the reason for the creation of the Others. 

However, I do think that Jonquil was the corpse queen to Florian’s Nights King and together, they created the Others. I will be discussing them as the potential NK and CQ in the next chapter as we explore their connection to the COTF.

While I don’t think that Jonquil was Nissa Nissa, there is one way that I can potentially see this being the case and that is if like Varamyr, NN body jumped in the moment of her death. Varymir was a powerful skin changer and I’ve always felt that the reason he did not succeed in hijacking Thistle’s body is because she was a woman. I think that he would have had better luck if she had been male.

There is an admonition against skin changing a person for a reason. It must have been previously done to horrible consequences. Nissa Nissa having a second life in Jonquil could certainly have been the first such occurrence…especially if she was on a quest of revenge.

Another coincidence that connects Sansa to Nissa Nissa are the several songs that echo the story of the ancient couple. Of particular note is Off to Gulltown. It is not known whether this is the title of the song or just the first line. In fact, we know pretty much nothing about the song except that it is old and that it is only mentioned twice in the text.

Dunk remembers Ser Arlan singing it while he rode to the tourney at Ashford Meadow.

Well, one morrow had brought rains that soaked them to the bones, and the one after had brought wet gusty winds, and the next a chill. By the fourth day the old man was too weak to ride. And now he was gone. Only a few days past, he had been singing as they rode, the old song about going to Gulltown to see a fair maid, but instead of Gulltown he'd sung of Ashford. Off to Ashford to see the fair maid, heigh-ho, heigh-ho, Dunk thought miserably as he dug.

The Hedge Knight

Tom of Sevenstreams is also singing the song when he encounters Arya, Hot Pie and Gendry. Per westeros.org, these are the known lyrics to the song.

Off to Gulltown to see the fair maid, heigh-ho, heigh-ho.

I’ll steal a sweet kiss with the point of my blade, heigh-ho, heigh-ho.

I’ll make her my love and we’ll rest in the shade, heigh-ho, heigh-ho.

Here we have a very “old” song whose lyrics echo the Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa legend wherein a fair maid is potentially killed by her lover using a sword. George also associates swords and blades with the male penis on several occasions in the text, which gives the second line dual meanings. The three lines also hints at the possible death of both parties.

Curiously enough, we have another one of those coincidences because Sansa is the fair maid from Gulltown in the story or rather I should say, Alayne Stone is.

"Alayne . . . Stone, would it be?" When he nodded, she said, "But who is my mother?"

"Kella?"

"Please no," she said, mortified.

"I was teasing. Your mother was a gentlewoman of Braavos, daughter of a merchant prince. We met in Gulltown when I had charge of the port. She died giving you birth, and entrusted you to the Faith. I have some devotional books you can look over. Learn to quote from them. Nothing discourages unwanted questions as much as a flow of pious bleating. In any case, at your flowering you decided you did not wish to be a septa and wrote to me. That was the first I knew of your existence." He fingered his beard. "Do you think you can remember all that?"

"I hope. It will be like playing a game, won't it?”

A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI

Sansa’s temporary name change that she uses to hide her identity while in the Vale brings us full circle to Ellyn Ever Sweet as we wind this chapter down.

Alayne is another way of spelling of Elayne or Elayna (French), which is also spelled as Elaine (Celtic origin) or Elena (Spanish). There are several other spelling variations of the name from other parts of the world.  However, if you research the etymology, you will discover that all these variant spellings of the name are ultimately derived from the Ancient Greek name Helene.

From Old French Elaine, a variant of Elene, cognate to Helen, ultimately from Ancient Greek Ἑλένη (Helénē). A Celtic origin has also been suggested since the name appears in Arthurian legend. Doublet of Helen.–Wikitionary

Another possible origin of Helene is Selene, the Greek Goddess of the moon. Either origin symbolically ties into Sansa’s story arc as Alayne Stone because as she is currently betrothed to the future Lord of the Vale, who rules the famous Mountains of the Moon, one can argue that she is metaphorically, a moon goddess.  However, her symbolic ties to the mountains is not the important thing I want to point out about her name.

As Alayne is derived from Helene, one can immediately see another variant of the name would be Helen, made famous by the story of the Helen of Troy, the queen of Sparta who was kidnapped by Paris, the Prince of Troy.  A variant of Helen is of course Ellen, which is spelt in a number of different ways including Elena, Eleni and surprise, surprise, Ellyn as in Ellyn Ever Sweet. Do you think George might want us to associate Sansa with the ancient character?

The Lady of Shallot by John William Waterhouse - Public Domain

Let’s now recap to see if I have this all straight as there are a lot of coincidences to remember. Martin names the character at the center of one of the great mysteries of the book Nissa Nissa. The name can also be spelled Nysa or Nyssa and Persephone, the real-world Greek goddess who is strongly associated with Sansa Stark was kidnapped from the Vale of Nysa. But that’s not all! George also drops a major clue in TWOIAF that the Westerosi version of Nissa Nissa was the honey and bee loving Ellyn Ever Sweet and that she quite likely married the King of the Bees aka the famous Winged Knight of the Vale.

And again, that is not all because it turns out that the flower used by Hades to lure Persephone into his trap was the sweet-smelling narcissus-jonquilla aka the jonquil flower, which just happens to have been the famous *Rose* of Sharon from The Song of Solomon. This same jonquil flower is the namesake of an ancient in-world figure that’s closely tied to Sansa Stark and was quite likely the female progenitor of House Stark and also quite possibly the famous corpse queen.

There are even more coincidences because there is also a real-world genus of honey making trees with the family name of *Nyssa*, which grow in swampy marshlands very similar to the River Styx and the Vale of Nysa from where Persephone was kidnapped. The ancient location where the “Rose of Sharon” grew was also a similar landscape of bogs and swamps.

What did I forget? Oh yes…Persephone is called the honeyed one and the priestess of the cult dedicated to her and her mother were called Melissas, which meant bees. Alyssa and Lysa are also shortened versions of Melissa and were the names of two female rulers of the Vale of Arryn, one of who we know was killed by her husband and her kingdom usurped.

Finally, the name Alayne Stone currently being used by Sansa Stark to hide her identity is a variant of Ellyn as in Ellyn Ever Sweet, the ancient honey loving beekeeper who was quite possibly the ancient Nissa Nissa and a COTF. Oh, and the pomegranate seeds used by Hades to tie Persephone to the underworld are described as “that honey sweet food,” in the Hymn to Demeter.

So many coincidences that tie Sansa to magical in-world and real-world mythological characters—and I know that I’ve forgotten some.  Yet we are to believe that Sansa will not be connected to the magical storyline.

Now, no doubt some will argue that George’s use of honey is just symbolism and Sansa is just fulfilling the role of an archetype. I would say that yes, it is about symbolism and Sansa like practically every character plays the part of an archetype at one time or another…sometimes even different ones in the same scene.

However, there is symbolism and then there is SYMBOLISM. And George seems to have gone out of his way to specifically connect Sansa to myths about gods, bees, and honey as the food of the gods in a way he hasn’t any other character. And then there is the simple fact that while the Long Night may have occurred all over Planetos, the focal point was in Westeros and the ancient Starks were at the center of events. George has also admitted that the Stark kids are the center of current story as well.

Someone once said to me that nothing important happened in the Vale in ancient times. I tend to disagree but here’s the thing, even if that were the case, it doesn’t really matter because George has set things up so that important events will occur there, in the current storyline.  

As I’ve said on many occasions, Martin uses the legends of the past to inform upon the modern story just as he uses the current characters to provide answers on ancient mysteries. Therefore, can it be mere coincidence that he gave Sansa a pseudonym that is a variant of Ellyn? As the clues that I’ve outlined suggest that Ellyn was both a COTF and a greenseer…possibly even the first of her kind; and is at the center of the great mystery of the book, I tend to doubt.

Also, if and when meteors descend on Planetos as Lucifer Means Lightbringer has proposed—a theory that I endorse, textural clues suggests at least one major piece will fall in the Vale. And so, thousands of years from now, the geographic area that comprise the Vale and the Mountains of the Moon just might be described like current dark landscape of Asshai and the Mountains of the Morn.

Instead of all of the phenomenons I’ve listed being coincidences, I would say that it’s more of case of convergence, and strongly indicates that major events…including those of a magical nature will coalesce around Alayne Stone aka Sansa Stark as she sits in the Vale of Arryn.

In the next chapter, we dig into the idea that Florian and Jonquil were the Nights King and corpse queen and explore their suggested connection to the Children of the Forest.

NEW DISCOVERY

One of the things I’ve discovered in taking so long to complete my Florian and Jonquil essay series is that I’m constantly discovering new things when doing research. This just happened tonight and so I’m re-blogging this chapter again to make mention of the new finds, which strongly support my thesis that Sansa will have a large part to play in the ending magical storyline.

The finds tie into this chapter’s discussion of George’s thematic use of honey in the story, how it heavily ties into Sansa’s arc by connecting her to ancient magical figures…especially Nissa Nissa, the corpse queen, and Ellyn Ever Sweet.

If you have not read the two parts of this chapter, you should read them first as what I’m writing here will have more meaning if you do. For those who have previously read the last two sections, it’s to do with why George named his ancient character Nissa Nissa, and why he might have given Sansa the moniker little bird.

Many in the fandom, including myself have argued that Nissa Nissa was a greenseer and more importantly either a COTF or human/COTF hybrid. As the Children were the ones who originally had access to the trees, I suspect that she was not a hybrid, but a pure COTF. Corpse queen, I think might have been a hybrid, but that discussion is for a future chapter.

I think that Nissa Nissa might possibly have been the first greenseer. I’ve also previously proposed that only women had access to the weirwoods, and so if Nissa Nissa was not the first greenseer, she was likely a direct descendant of the line. That’s why the idea of the weirwood having a hive like mind at its core seems to be baked into the lore. Hive minds is a theme that George has played with in many of his past writings and so him doing the same with ASOIAF as he continues to explore ideas makes sense.

In the previous chapter, I explained how George was likely influenced by several different sources when it came to giving the name Nissa Nissa to the ancient figure that’s part of the central mystery of the book. These included the Greek water nymphs, one of who was with Persephone when she was kidnapped, as well as the fact that Hades stole his queen, who is also called the honeyed one from the Vale of Nysa.

Honey is very important to my thesis, as in ancient times, it like nectar was considered the food of the gods, and George uses it in the same symbolic manner in his story. This brings me to one of the other important reasons I theorized George named his character Nissa Nissa, and that is the very weirwood like, real world Nyssa Sylvatica honey making tree. I am not going to go into much detail about the tree again as you can read all about it below.

However, it’s in doing some further research on this tree that I discovered some additional information that I suspect might have been pivotal in George’s going with the name Nissa Nissa.

It has to do with the full name of the tree. We’ve discussed what Nyssa means, but you will be very surprised when I tell you the meaning of Sylvatica. Put simply, it means “of the woods,” or “of the forests.” So basically, Nissa Nissa was a wood nymph, which pretty much confirms that she was a child of the forest.

Sylvatica is also the name of an asteroid belt, which may support the idea that moon meteors have something to do with the Long Night event. As interesting as these two finds were, there are not the most exciting thing I discovered.

What would you think if I told you that Sylvatica is also the scientific names for various species of birds…more specifically, little birds. These include the Zoonavena sylvatica, a spinetail; the Turnix sylvaticus, a buttonquail, and the Prinia sylvatica, a warbler, among others.

Speaking of warblers, guess what’s another name for them. You probably guessed it, but I’ll tell you. Songbird.

By T. R. Shankar Raman - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=62126758

"Think I'm so drunk that I'd believe that?" He let go his grip on her arm, swaying slightly as he stood, stripes of light and darkness falling across his terrible burnt face. "You look almost a woman . . . face, teats, and you're taller too, almost . . . ah, you're still a stupid little bird, aren't you? Singing all the songs they taught you . . . sing me a song, why don't you? Go on. Sing to me. Some song about knights and fair maids. You like knights, don't you?" 

A Clash of Kings, Sansa II

So basically, Nissa Nissa was a wood nymph who’s also a little bird. Funnily enough, there is even a blue forget me not flower called the Myosotis Sylvatica ‘Early Blue Bird.’ Talk about coincidences. And yet we are to believe that Sansa won’t be connected to the magical story line or play a major role in final events. 😊

Read Part 1 of Chapter 7 HERE.

ETA 6/19/20 to fix a few typos, add a couple of references indicating that Hades was also known as Pluto, and the paragraph that suggests the future Vale landscape maybe like Asshai.

ETA 6/22/23 to add section at the end about new discovery.

[creampuffqueen]

Storyteller

Word Count: 980

Requested by @dawninlatin, some Manorian family fluff. This was super fun to write, lol. I hope you all enjoy!

~~~~

“And then… Elena sealed Erawan in an indestructible tomb! Never to be seen again!” 

Dorian Havilliard sat around the fire, watching his eldest daughter, Aris, recount a tale that she’d read in one of her books. They were staying in the Witch Kingdom for a while, while Manon had some work to do, and so far all his girls were enjoying it. 

Nysa, four years old, was eating her dinner, watching her older sister with wide eyes. Kerrigan, at three, was sitting on Dorian’s lap while she ate.

“So Erawan stayed sealed away for hundreds and hundreds of years…” The rest of the young witchlings leaned closer, as Aris’s voice dropped to a whisper.

“Until one day, he broke free.” Dorian stopped himself from interjecting and telling them all how the story really went. That would drag up memories he still wasn’t able to face, all these years later.

“What happened next?” One of the other witchlings asked, on the edge of her seat.

“Well, then the Second Valg War happened. I’ve heard that story so many times now that it’s boring.” Aris sighed. Then, she perked up, leaping to her feet.

“Let’s make a play!” The other witches who were done with their meal hopped down beside her, giggling. Kerrigan pushed her bowl to her father and squirmed off, running to join the fray.

Nysa looked skeptical, but she set her dinner down and walked over to her older sister. Dorian watched on, amused.

“We need people to be Gavin, and Elena, and Brannon… and then we need someone to be Rhiannon, too. And Erawan.” Instantly the witchlings clambered around, begging to be different people.

“Well, I want to be Gavin, so I’m Gavin.” Aris decided. “And… Kerrigan can be Rhiannon.”

“She’s too little!” Nysa complained. “She won’t know what to do.”

“I’m not little!” Kerrigan yelled.

“And Nysa,” Aris continued, ignoring her sister’s complaints, “You’ll be Elena.”

“I don’t want to be Elena!” Nysa snapped, pouting, hands on her hips. With the amount of glaring coming from those sapphire eyes, Dorian wondered if he’d have to step in himself.

But after a brief staring contest, Aris won out, and Nysa begrudgingly agreed to be Elena. Two more witchlings were assigned to be Brannon and Erawan, and the rest were the soldiers and the Valg.

Some of the older witches had gathered, watching the gathered witchlings get ready with only the light of the fire. Aris had found a large stick that she’d deemed ‘Damaris’, and had given Nysa a piece of grass to use as ‘the Eye of Elena’.

The other witchlings had found their own sticks to use as weapons, and Aris quickly got them all gathered into a position she liked.

“Once upon a time!” She shouted, throwing her arms into the air as she addressed everyone gathered. “There were evil creatures called the Valg! And they wanted to take over the world, led by their king, Erawan!”

The young witch who played Erawan jumped forward, brandishing her stick. “I am Erawan! And I’m going to kill you all!”

“Never!” Shouted the witchling who played Brannon. “My fire powers will stop you!” She thrust her hands forward, making sound effects as she did so.

All of the witchlings were surprisingly good at their parts, making up lines on the go after only hearing the story once. Aris was a dutiful narrator, her voice loud and carrying across the dark plains.

“Meanwhile, the Witch Kingdom was in great peril! Queen Rhiannon held the gates for three days and three nights against the other witches! But after three days, she was killed!”

Kerrigan stood still, glancing around. Aris moved closer to her little sister and hissed her lines in her ear, and Kerrigan let out a loud howl, falling to the ground.

“No! I’m dead! I curse you all!” She squirmed on the ground for a moment before closing her eyes and sticking her tongue out, ‘dead’.

“And now we fight!” Aris decided, whipping her large stick about. The other witchlings cheered and raced towards each other, sticks at the ready.

They were in the middle of an all-out stick war when someone came up behind Dorian and sat down. He knew it was Manon without even looking, and he offered her his hand.

She took it, holding onto him tightly as she watched their kids.

“Why is our daughter lying on the ground, Princeling?” Manon asked, a hint of a laugh in her voice. “And why are our other daughters fighting with sticks?”

“They’ve decided to act out the First Valg War.” Dorian said with a chuckle. 

While the others were fighting, Aris and Nysa stole away the witchling who was Erawan, and acted out trapping her in an indestructible tomb.

“And with their king gone, the Valg soldiers were no more!” Aris declared. The witchlings playing the Valg collapsed, and the rest of them cheered happily.

“The end!” Aris giggled. She dropped her stick and ran over to Dorian and Manon, smiling broadly.

“Mama! Papa! Did you like the play?” She asked, crawling into Dorian’s lap. Behind her, Nysa helped Kerrigan stand up, and the two grabbed sticks for another mock sword fight.

“It was very good.” Manon laughed. “You were all very good actresses.”

Aris grinned at her mother’s praise, settling herself into her father’s lap. The fire was still burning bright, though the stars and moon were clear overhead. It was nearly midnight.

Seeming to have the same thought, Manon called their other daughters over. “It’s bedtime, my little warriors.”

“Not tired!” Kerrigan pouted. 

“You are tired.” Manon said, picking up the three year old. “C’mon, you have a comfy bed waiting for you inside.”

Aris stood up and followed her mother, while Dorian picked up Nysa. And together, they walked inside the Keep, ready to sleep until a new day was upon them. 

[wittywallflower]

Teslen Hades/Persephone AU

(Okay so this is a rough draft but i still want to share it for funzies (and, like, validation). I still think about this AU a lot but I have so many WIPs I really should not bring this project to life rn. )

That beautiful goddess of plants was at it again, singing to the flowers in the Nysian fields so they would grow taller, thicker, more colorful. He never saw her on his rare visits to Olympus. It was said her mother was quite protective and hid her away from the darker gods so as not to taint the purity of her spirit. Nikola had scoffed at the idea that any of the gods and goddesses of the main realms could ever be pure. They had lived too long, seen too much.

But if anyone could possess that sort of innocence, perhaps it was her. Nikola had watched many times from afar as Helen had cherished every living thing. Every plant down to the most worthless weed was worthy of a song or a touch to help it thrive. He caught only occasional glimpses of her walking the world above. She was often shrouded in secrecy. Her mother perhaps. None of the others in the pantheon seemed to know much about it. None was her friend. Sometimes Nikola wondered if she had any friends besides her flowers.

Helios knew her well though. Helios shone down on her plants to nurture them; their relationship was nearly symbiotic. Nikola tried not to envy his old friend’s connection to the woman. He had bargained for the ability to tap into Helios’ sight but the sun titan had made him pay dearly. From the sky Helios saw everything that happened upon the Earth; there was a lot of strategic value in that he’d been reluctant to share. Least of all with the Lord of the Underworld. The dark realms were shrouded from Helios and he never knew what Nikola was up to. But he had known the god a long time. Whatever Nikola may plot down there, it was unlikely to disturb the surface world.

So Helios gave Nikola the ability to watch the Earth from above as he already did from below. So it was never impossible to find her when he went looking. He tried not to look often.

Today though he’d felt an itch in the back of his brain. Something compelling him, pulling at him and distracting him from his thoughts. Something like a half-finished tune you couldn’t remember the next note of, playing over and over in your head begging to be completed. He didn’t realize it was her until he opened his connection to the sky and gazed down at her as she sang.

The flowers grew thick in Nysa, the plain was a riot of color from the wildflowers Helen was currently picking. She wove them into effortless crowns of blossoms as she walked and sang. As each was completed one of her companions would dance up to allow the crown to be placed open their heads. The sea nymphs would smile at her before spinning off again through the field to frolic. The Oceanids usually preferred to stay near the sea but they knew they were safe with Demeter’s daughter.

Only Demeter’s daughter wasn’t as safe as she appeared to be. As if in a blink, a figure appeared in the field. Tall and masculine and decidedly out of place among the gentle ethereal beauty of the nymphs and the flowers and Helen herself. The Oceanids drew together to whispers amongst themselves, intently watching their friend and the intruder, but none approached to support her. They knew Demeter preferred to choose her daughter’s companions, but one did not easily naysay a god.

John stood there watching Helen with a pleasant smile, his winged cap tucked under his arm, waiting for her to notice his arrival. When she did Nikola was pleased to see she didn’t startle, didn’t jump or exclaim in surprised. Judging by the way her eyes turned cold and she stood taller in the face of him, it was not their first confrontation. He couldn’t hear what passed between them but her tense posture didn’t change even as John began stalking closer. She retreated a half a step before she squared up and held her ground. Helen didn’t flinch when John grabbed her, fingers digging into her arm.

Nikola had seen enough. Several of the sea nymphs had scattered to find Demeter but it would take them precious minutes to find her and return to Helen. But the magical boundary of the Underworld granted its Lord instant travel to anywhere on the surface or Olympus above. He could make an entrance wherever he pleased.

Usually he did so with a great deal less drama.

The ground behind John sundered with a mighty rumble and from the maw of the sinkhole rode Nikola on his black chariot. He didn’t slow as he barreled towards them, hoping on all that was good in the Elysian Fields that he wouldn’t injure Helen in this stunt.

Only meters away, Nikola unleashed his power and a fork of lightning struck the ground at John’s feet. The other man jumped back easily and took a defensive stance, sneering at Nikola. He didn’t appear intimidated. But Nikola’s goal wasn't to intimidate John but to distract him.

As John squared off, facing Nikola’s chariot as it approached, he released Helen.

Exactly as Nikola has hoped.

With a last slap of the reins and a slight adjustment to his course, Nikola tied the leads off and moved to one side of his chariot. His night-black team of four undead stallions charged straight towards John. Helen, smart woman, had realized the situation and was moving away from the god. Far enough away that his horses only whipped her hair into a frenzy in the wind of their passing. When she clawed the hair from her vision, Helen was met with the sight of a heavy wheel about to bear down upon her. She closed her eyes and braced herself, only to be lifted into the air at the last minute.

Her eyes popped open to meet Nikola’s in the second before he lost his balance, tumbling to the floor of the chariot. He kept hold of her, tucking her close to the front so she wouldn’t be bounced out. Nikola looked back, squinting through the dust he’d kicked up.

There stood John, intact, untrampled, mores the pity. The God was known for his speed, Nikola hadn’t expected to actually knock him down. But it would have been nice. John wasn’t trying to follow now, only staring after them with a murderous expression.

Seizing the reins again Nikola steered his team downwards, the earth obligingly opening to allow passage to the Underworld. Down in to the darkness he spirited Helen away.

[writingsbywyvern]

c l a n s

↳  a g a r t h a The Hollow Earth Theory

The city of fire and molten rocks. Agartha was the legendary city located in Aemetora's center, the hottest place on the realm. Agartha was famous for their weaponry. They are the blacksmiths of Aether. Agartha is the home of the trolls, large strong creatures that wields unimaginable strength. As their main power comes from their muscle, they train and work hard so that they can become the strongest. Agartha is lead by the strongest troll, called the Head of Agartha. He is the one who will be responsible for the safety of all trolls and Agartha itself.

↳  a r c a d i a Greek: Ἀρκαδία, also known as Utopia

Arcadia (also called utopia) is a place where nature and their occupants live in peace. Strangely, that utopia is a plain desert where water is scarce and food is rare. Shape-shifters choose to build their houses there. The harsh nature of their land force them to live with discipline. They live among dangerous creatures and weather. With many wild animals looking for food, these shape-shifters take a habit of learning how to fight. This soon become the trademark of Arcadians, where shape-shifters are natural fighters and warriors. After they managed to settle down in Arcadia, their main goal is not to survive but become a hero of Aemetora. They strive to gain honor and respect from others.

↳  k u n l u n    s h a n Chineese: 崑崙, pin yin: Kūnlún, the mountain of immortal beings

Kunlun Shan was known to be the mountain where immortals live. They are a clan of the wisest people who live for hundreds of years, almost as long as the gods itself. The Shans practice magic, an art to control the flow of aether around them. These people were soon known as Sorcerers. Until now, Shans still try to unravel mysteries of the world. Their knowledge is stored into sanctuaries all over the mountain. It is said that all those who tried to take it for evil means return with nothing but trauma or death.

↳  m e i r a Hebrew: מֵאִירָה, name meaning: light

Meira is a grove that was believed to be the land where light first appeared in Aemetora. It was said that Meira was the origin of this realm. Meira is the clan of elves, the most beautiful creatures in Aemetora. They are very exclusive and obsessed with blood purity. Most elves would not want to have an affair with none other than elves. That is why they have the smallest population among the six main clans in Aemetora They are lead by the High Elf, a male elf believed to be a representative of a perfect elf. The perfect elf is someone who is capable of protecting others, wields knowlege, and the most beautiful elf in the grove.

↳  n y s a Greek: Νῦσα, the Valley of Nymphs

Nymphs are known for their never ending happiness. Most of them have no goal in life, as long as they're happy. They are known for their satisfying the flesh. Most of their people consist of beautiful woman. Nysa is a beautiful valley where the nymphs live. They don't have houses, but they live inside caves that are present in the bottom valley. The valley itself is very fertile and provides their food. It is said that once a man entered Nysa, they have never returned.

↳  r a h a n Arabic name, meaning: favored by God

The only human race found in Aemetora. The Rahan Empire wields the largest population among Aemetora's other clans. They are ruled by the Rahan family. They take pride in their species, even though they are mostly looked down because they are the weakest. Like Arcadians, the men of Rahan mostly learn how to fight and protect themselves. They are wonderful sword fighters and soldiers. If Arcadians leave to become Aether's warriors, men of Rahan tries to become a soldier of Rahan's military faction. Rahan's people work hard and search for power.

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