#is this longer than the legend analysis?
Explore tagged Tumblr posts
kai-zuha · 2 months ago
Text
This is why Legend and Hyrule were paired together.
The easy conversation
Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media
The joyful banter
Tumblr media Tumblr media
and not to mention this beautiful moment:
Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media
THIS!! is exactly what Legend needed, this is exactly why these two were paired together!!
Legend needs an outlet, he needs someone that will return his banter and his harsh remarks against his brothers. He needs someone that will understand him. And who’s the one who can provide him that? Hyrule.
Hyrule doesn’t reprimand Legend, he doesn’t yell at him or think little of him he’s just there. He’s just there to explore the dungeon and have fun with Legend and that’s what he needed. If Legend was partnered up with anyone else it wouldn’t have played out like this. They would’ve gotten into an argument right in the beginning as Legend talked about Wars.
But that doesn’t happen here because he’s with Hyrule, who won’t take the bait but instead pursue the conversation on why Legend thinks this way about Warriors and Wild. Hyrule even starts the conversation about knights cause he knows it’s on Legend’s mind.
Hyrule knows his brother, and he knows what he needs in the moment. And i think this update perfectly shows how Hyrule is able to work around Legend and his abrasive attitude, this update shows how different Hyrule is from everyone in the way he treats Legend. He doesn’t hold him up on a high standard because that’s his brother but also his predecessor, he looks up to him sure but he knows that first and foremost Legend is his brother.
Time was able to see this as well, he knew what he was doing putting Legend and Hyrule together. Time is able to read everyone, hence why he put Sky and Twilight together after Wild confronted him. It’s why he put Hyrule and Legend together because he knew that Legend needed that outlet, Legend needs Hyrule because he’s the only one who understands him to an extent.
There’s less for Legend to be worried about as well because he knows that he doesn’t need to worry about Hyrule! Two peas in a pod! Hyrule is capable of himself as is Legend (another reason they were put together) so they’re able to roam around and be silly as much as they want cause they know how to be responsible when the time is right.
If you can’t tell this update really did a number on me, I just love downfall duo so much..
All art shown by @/linkeduniverse
413 notes · View notes
pluckyredhead · 2 months ago
Note
I just read your analysis on why Damian is Dick's fav brother... So... Can we expect another essay as to why Dick is more so Bruce's baby than Damian is? 👀🙈 (You don't have to if you don't want to, of course. I just really enjoy your longer analysis of these characters 💕).
Ha, not nearly as long of an essay, but sure! It basically boils down to two points:
Bruce was a vastly different person when Dick was young than he is now, or even a few years ago when Damian first showed up. He was warmer, more open, more willing to be vulnerable. More affected by cuteness. The turning point is 100% Jason's death, and if Bruce has two babies it's Dick and Jason - because the Bruce who exists after Jason's death is a very different man, and his heart will never be as open as it was before. (Insert a whole 'nother essay here about how Jason comes back and loses Bruce again because the Bruce he loved doesn't exist anymore.) Even though he has a whole-ass mental breakdown over Damian's death, he is habitually not nearly as physically or verbally affectionate with Damian before or after it as he was with Dick and Jason when they were little. (And I think it's telling that he has pretty much completely gotten over Damian's death but continues to obsess over Jason's. Once Damian was back that problem was solved, but Jason's broke something in Bruce that wasn't fixed by Jason's return.)
Dick needed Bruce when he was Robin, in a very immediate and obvious way, and never pretended not to. Dick turned to Bruce for comfort and protection and guidance and validation. Damian's first words to Bruce were about what a disappointment Bruce was. ("Father. I thought you'd be taller." LEGEND.) More to the point, he arrived in Gotham determined to behave as if he didn't need anyone or anything, and Bruce pretty much took that at face value and then immediately died (except not really). Dick was the one who stepped in during Damian's grief and confusion and disappointment (well, and Alfred), and Dick remains the one Damian turns to for guidance and validation. (I'd Jon is who Damian turns to for comfort and protection, when he can bring himself to ask for those things, and I'm not even wearing my shipper hat when I say that.) Bruce sees their dynamic, and is all too aware that he is not good with Damian, and concludes that he's not needed.
Now, of course Damian needs Bruce - his desperation for Bruce's approval is painfully clear on a regular basis. But he is far too proud to say so, and Bruce is enough of an emotional coward to continue to take Damian's seeming dislike of him and self-reliance at face value, because to actually be the father Damian needs and deserves would require a level of vulnerability that I'm not sure he's genuinely capable of anymore. But at least Damian has Dick.
56 notes · View notes
markantonys · 5 months ago
Text
s3 trailer mini-analysis
a LOT of this trailer seems to be either standard rand-in-the-waste stuff that's exactly what i expected to be happening this season or moiraine AU visions that don't tell us anything about the season's goings-on in Reality, so i'm just going to ponder a handful of shots that are currently intriguing me!
Tumblr media
i've zoomed in on this wideshot of two people talking in the tower, and also added brightness and color enhancement. the seated figure appears to be wearing red and the other figure white. my current suspicion is that this is lanfear talking to liandrin, or, wild shot, elaida - i can't tell if the lighter blobs over the red figure's shoulders are blonde hair or just part of an outfit. but the white figure does seem like a lanfear-y silhouette to me! if true, this could maaaaybe point to lanfear getting involved with the white tower to set her up to absorb mesaana later; or it could just be her having a chat with her minion liandrin early in the season before liandrin heads off to tanchico and gets wrapped up with moggy.
Tumblr media
closeup of the big room with 3 statues. the outfits of the group on the left make me wonder if this could be an age of legends scene in rand's glass columns sequence - they look similar to what LTT and other male aes sedai have worn in the flashbacks in the first 2 seasons. but i'm not sure what to make of the group of walkers on the right!
Tumblr media
rand and egwene in a location that seems waste-y. they both look surprised, which makes me wonder if this is some kind of dreamworld fuckery; maybe they unexpectedly crossed paths in TAR, or maybe egwene unexpectedly managed to physically transport herself to the waste via dreamworld fuckery. it's giving:
Tumblr media
next up!
Tumblr media Tumblr media
elayne and min both sporting hair-wraps. could it be that they're in tanchico together and hair-wraps are the style there? or it could just be coincidence and not a sign of a shared location. i'm surprised by how long min's hair is, but i wonder if that indicates some version of her elmindreda disguise making it in? but also, how could so much time have passed between seasons for her hair to grow that much? rand and egwene's hair is both only a little longer than their s2 chops, i think. maybe min's hair actually ends just below her shoulders and it's only the angle here that gives it the illusion of being even longer.
Tumblr media
mat in a frustratingly nondescript location (i brightened it up in hopes of revealing architectural details, but nah). his neck is definitely injured, and surely if mat has an injured neck in s3, it HAS to be from hanging. but i can't judge whether it looks like a fresh wound or a semi-healed, scarring wound. brightening the shot did reveal that he seems to have a nice pattern on his shirt/robe/coat, good for him!
Tumblr media
presumably rand having a channeling explosion in what appears to be a reasonably nice bedroom at night. this one really intrigues me because i think it's just about the only shot of rand that isn't part of the waste or an AU vision (at least, i assume this is reality), and thus perhaps the only shot we have of the very start of the season when the gang is all still together, as they reportedly are. it would make sense to me for rand to have some channeling disaster early in the season to set up his storyline of needing a channeling teacher at any cost, even if it's a forsaken.
and now, what you've all been waiting for, window architectural style analysis!
first, elayne with the crown is definitely white tower windows with that almost floral pattern. why is elayne putting on a crown in the white tower while wearing her novice dress? i doubt she'd have one kicking around in her luggage. did her brothers and/or elaida bring it with them for some reason? is it actually a (ter')angreal? is this a dream sequence, or an AU within her or egwene's accepted test?
Tumblr media Tumblr media
now more windows to try and figure out where people are in mysterious shots. left to right: the windows behind rand as he's having a channeling explosion; tiny fragment of the window behind mat; the window to elayne's right in the shot of her with the hair-wrap.
Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media
overall i can conclude [drumroll]..........nothing! none of them seem like white tower windows, at least, and rand's window and elayne's window are definitely different from each other (no surprise there, since my guesses for the two shots are 3x01 location & tanchico respectively). if i had to pick, i'd say mat's window looks more similar to elayne's and thus that shot might be him in tanchico, but it's impossible to say since we don't get a good look at his window.
although, if i compare to falme, could it potentially be a somewhat-similar style of ceiling beams with a semi-circle of holes for the top of a window underneath? haha probably not, at this point i'm just reaching to try and invent evidence for my "mat finds the doorway in 3x01 and rand is around to give him cpr" hopes. who knows if falme will even be their starting location anyway!
Tumblr media Tumblr media
after all, rand's window, which i hazard a guess is in the starting location, doesn't match falme windows. nor does it match tar valon or cairhien windows. perhaps it's a new location - like caemlyn? maybe they all arrive there in 3x01 and meet elayne's fam, then perrin heads off to the two rivers, rand heads off to the waste, and elaida carts the girls back to the tower with the brothers (and maybe mat?) in tow (so potentially the girls going back against their will rather than choosing to go back - i do have somewhat of a hard time imagining them voluntarily going back now that there are more important things than school to worry about, unless perhaps they decide to go back in order to warn siuan about the black ajah. but i'm sure i'll have more wondergirls speculation later since them being at the tower was definitely my biggest surprise of the trailer and i need to mull it over some more!)
stray thoughts
where is gawyn? is he safe? is he all right? they are edging me BIG time with him, goddamn! we saw galad and faile in the trailer, but they were the ones we already had the castings for anyway! gawyn is the one whose existence we need evidence of!!!! my fears of a Brother Merge are returning even though i know it's absurd since they namedropped gawyn in s2 while the brother we saw in the trailer is clearly galad and was named galad on the actor's CV.
me: all the marketing materials will be geared towards show-onlys and thus rooted in relationships we know from the first 2 seasons rather than revealing too many new relationships also me: [panics over all the focus in the trailer & interview on rand's relationships with moiraine/egwene/lanfear with nary a hint of him meeting elayne and avi]
but of COURSE they wouldn't be giving away anything on the avirandlayne front already haha so this is only logical! we've only seen a tiny fraction of rand's season activities; plenty of time for him to be hanging out with avi and elayne (and his friends!) in scenes we haven't yet gotten glimpses of. rand-moiraine and rand-lanfear were his biggest dynamics in s2, which makes me impatient to see his other dynamics return (or get created) in s3, but it also means that those are the dynamics it's most sensible to focus on for early promo.
i am quite surprised there wasn't a single shot of avi in the trailer (bar a potential wideshot of her from behind) since she IS a returning character whom show-onlys would recognize, but then, even characters who've had a bigger role than her thus far (such as 3/5 emond's fielders) only got 1-2 shots; the focus was definitely on rand, moiraine, and lanfear in this trailer, with a touch of egwene as well.
56 notes · View notes
puriteenism · 1 year ago
Text
A Jason Grace Analysis 
While my Jason fics relies on mainly interpretation and headcanons, this one’s mostly going on the limited list of Jason’s life from the books. YOU’RE ALLOWED TO DISAGREE WITH ME,JUST DO IT RESPECTFULLY IN THE COMMENTS. be nice pls.
Spoiler alert 🚨 (for PJO, HOO and TOA)
Jason Grace is a character who was, in a way, screwed over by Rick during his writing of Heroes of Olympus and eiDzgventually Trials of Apollo. His story was very sad, but never explored to its fullest potential and in some cases didn’t make sense. He’s a character who is seen as ‘boring’ by the fandom, which , in a way, makes sense. Uncle Rick didn’t do him justice, so I’m here for a Jason Grace analysis.
Firstly, Jason’s incredibly depressing life. Because I do not know what vendetta that Rick had against my boy, but I would argue his story is the most tragic of everyone in the books. Yes. Even Nico. 
Jason’s mother was an unhinged alcoholic who was obsessed with fame. For the first 2 years of his life, he was basically looked after by his sister, who was also a young child. As hard as Thalia tried, she probably wasn’t the best caregiver on account of her age. His mother was unstable, which has got to leave some scars, even if you’re a young kid, because you still know what’s going on to some extent. And Jupiter seemed to leave the family to their own devices after a while, not even staying for a kid. So Jason has been basically abandoned, keep track of how often that happens. 
Then Jason was abandoned again, this time by his mother, left as a sacrifice for Hera. And he wasn’t sacrificed just anywhere, he was left at the Wolf House, where Lupa tested him to see if he was ‘pup or food’. So Jason, at two years old, was tested by a Wolf Goddess, a ruthless one at that, who threatened to kill him if he didn’t live up to expectations. Just a great environment for a toddler to live in. And while the time he spends in the Wolf House is unspecified, the general consensus is that it was for a year or two. This is more of a headcanon, but the implications of ‘pup or food’ could show that he stayed with her longer than the average Roman demigod. In SoN, it’s shown that most demigods do their Wolf House training for like, a week. And the training sounds harsh when Percy, age 16 does it. So imagine a 2 year old, going through that, constantly. Then he is off to New Rome. 
In HoO, it’s pointed out that Jason has 12 lines of his forearm for his years of service in New Rome. 12 lines representing 12 years of service.
Jason has been serving 12 years of military service since he was around 3. So that means that this literal infant is just… in the military. How does that work? Was baby Jason just running around in little armour? Was he doing the same drills as other kids when he was much, much younger? Also the fact that in Camp Jupiter, you train for 10 years, then go to live in New Rome. But Jason has been serving for longer than that, with 2 extra years. It seemed like he wasn’t going to retire anytime soon in the books, so that also adds some mystique to his character that was never explored.
Then we move into the other things at Camp Jupiter, which is that Jason was treated like a statue or a star, instead of a person. Hazel says that he is ‘more legend than boy’ which is so sad! This kid, this 15 year old is seen by those around him as a hero, a legend to look up to. Did Jason have any other friends? While Reyna seems to be close, Reyna had a crush on him, and while he didn’t know that, it must have made the friendship a bit… different. Jason isn’t specified to have any other friends in the books, probably because everyone was to in awe of his status as a Son of Jupiter. And while Jason may care about the rules, in Roman terms he was a very radical person. He was just trying to live a calm life, to not be known only as the Son of Jupiter. He joins the least respected cohort. He tries to take less important quests. But it doesn’t work, because he does get assigned big quests and while he is in the 5th cohort, people still treat him like a legendary hero instead of just a guy. And while the phrase ‘victim of nepotism’ is quite controversial, I think that Jason actually fits that bill.
Then we come to SoN. You know that tweet that’s like: hey we’re calling off the search party. we found a different guy out there we like more. That’s what Camp Jupiter did to Jason. Again, he was abandoned, this time by his own Camp. Like I know 8 months is a while, but oh my gosh, do we have to elect a new praetor? There’s also a contradiction. Percy is a Greek demigod, which isn’t a thing the Roman’s really like. Yet after a couple weeks at Camp, he’s already a PRAETOR? While Jason was put down for being ‘unrecognisable as a Roman’, they elected a very Greek person as a praetor? He was immediately accepted into the highest position of power? Also the fact that Jason wasn’t looked for. At all. While CHB was scrambling to find their boy (as they should), no one in CJ cared? Like, aren’t they the ones with the giant searching eagles? It seemed like everyone forgot about him, with him being missing not being a huge thing for most people (except Hazel and Reyna to my memory, fill me in if anyone else gave two frogs) and that’s gotta sting. The knowledge that your entire camp not only replaced you, but didn’t bother to look. 
Jason also had amnesia and never regained huge chunks of his memory. That must be horrible, to have parts of your life gone, to not remember much. While Percy got everything back, Jason got so much less!
Jason goes on the quest, then comes back. He goes to CHB, goes to school. He starts having a normal life. And he gets broken up with, making him genuinely sad. And while I know that Piper had no ill intentions whatsoever when she broke up with him, that also could count as an abandonment. Because they don’t really keep in touch in the book, they seem to go their separate ways. So kinda half of an abandonment, even though both parties weren’t in blame.
Finally we have his death. While Thalia got turned into a tree by Zeus, a slightly caring act for a god, Jason died. This could be because Jupiter is crueller than Zeus or it could be because of the cycle of patricide, with Jupiter killing his father, who did the same to his father. Maybe it’s because of his paranoia. Maybe it’s because Jason called Jupiter unwise, but it still counts as an abandonment. The god saved Thalia (she could be seen as non threatening, not a killer. Not someone who could carry on the tradition of son killing father) and abandoned Jason, left him to die the ‘heroes death’. 
Jason’s life has been one big struggle and rejection. 4.5 times, he was abandoned, left somewhere by someone. Left to die in the end. He was a child soldier, meaning that he was a kid that never got to be a kid, just a tool for the gods, for years and years. And he struggled with making friends, making new rules, trying to push the camp into the future. Seen as unroman, even Reyna says it. That’s an awful life, one that Rick Riordan never explored and one that’s contradicted at times.
Jason was a character that Rick dropped the ball on so hard.
Because, while his life is incredibly difficult, it has so much potential for storytelling, that Rick  dashes on the rocks, leaving the fandom with a character who people acknowledge as weak and boring.
So, in the fandom, Jason is regarded as having no personality, or being a knock off Percy. So, Jason not really having a huge personality, as a kid who trained as a soldier from a young age, makes sense. He was spending half his childhood trying to survive so trying to figure out what MBTI type he was may have fallen low on his list of priorities. Then he got amnesia, and sent on the Seven quest. So Jason not having time to develop a sense of personality makes sense, buts here’s the catch. It’s never explored. Rick never, ever explains why that might be happening, which could make for a compelling story arc. Rick never expands on the child soldier thing at all, which sucks because instead of Jason having an identity crisis about Greek and Roman camps, he could be really weird since he’s a child soldier. (I’m aware that they’re all child soldiers, but I refer to Jason as child soldier since he was just a baby when he started)
And the seeds were there. For example, the scene with Jason being wary about Nico and not wanting to rescue him, that could have been Jason being taught that practicality is key. That some people are expendable. He could have learnt that from the ARMY THAT HE GREW UP IN. That could have been a plot point, that Jason struggles with taking breaks or knowing that’s he’s appreciated, that his childhood was abusive and not normal, that life isn’t a constant battle for survival. That could have been his arc! All of the pieces were right there! Rick, dude, you’re a great author, but you fumbled so hard on this one!
And also the fact that… unpopular opinion time….
Jason wasn’t stronger than Percy, but he should have been.
Jason has been in the army since he was a toddler, and I know that Percy’s really powerful, but come on! Jason being this really nice, really powerful kid with super strong powers and no social skills could have slayed. Maybe this is the inner Jason stan in me, but I personally think that Jason should have been stronger than Percy, simply because it makes more sense. Jason has been training for ages and ages, he single handedly fought a Titan at younger than Percy (around 14 or 15) so it seemed like his powers were muted by Rick. This could probably be because the PJO fandom is like a toxic TikTok boy mom when it comes to Percy (I can be like this too), making him centre stage and getting annoyed when he isn’t. Percy is meant to be the strongest, which isn’t bad, in some situations it just doesn’t fit. Or maybe Percy’s just wildly OP.
This is not to say that in the book Jason was weak, but people treat him like that.
And Jason’s really sad life is never explored! He should have been struggling with 1500 mental illnesses at once because that constant abandonment? The stress of everyone’s expectations? Trying not to die at like 4? He’s neither the eldest nor a girl, but he’s got so much eldest daughter syndrome and is burnt out gifted kid syndrome personified. And it’s hardly touched on! 
There’s also the fact that’s a really small nitpick, but, the fact that Jason only has 1 single lip scar? That shows that Rick wasn’t paying attention to his own character. Jason trained with the Wolf Goddess then was in the army, he should be covered in them.
In conclusion, Jason’s very sad and tragic story was hardly utilised and the very interesting parts of his character were not used in a way they could be. But don’t worry Jason. While Rick Riordan may have flopped you, you are one of my favourite characters.
Peace ☮️
221 notes · View notes
carrotstache · 29 days ago
Text
{ Note: I am not Christian/Catholic, and my knowledge is limited. This is not meant to be a well written analysis, but merely to make connections and my own interpretations. }
There's a lot of religious imagery in GSGW, and I’ve been trying to wrap my head around what they allude to or represent. Particularly what prophet Soleum is. I won’t go into untranslated chapters, because mtl can be quite confusing and I am very slow at reading raws... I will talk about things up to chapter 144 though.
Contains spoilers for the novel below.
Let’s begin with the most direct connections, in Hell Surcharge Taxi each driver represent one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse with their different conversational interests:
Conquest: Olympics, elections, pets, games, social media.
War: War, mafia, action movies, vampire legends, firearms.
Famine: Fine dining, farming, economic recessions, slum tourism, luxury goods.
Death: The afterlife, religious experiences, pandemics, mass murders, ☐☐☐.
They serve as symbols of the end times in apostle John’s revelation.
In The Story Usurper, the Church of the Luminous Unknown also notably works towards the apocalypse and believe that by, “[cultivating] and becom[ing] a meaningful existence in the world, they [will] be chosen by ‘Ireum-nim’”. Similarly to the sacrificial lamb in the book of Revelation, cultists are willing to sacrifice themselves to be pure, worshipped and honourable.
Now, Kim Soleum is symbolically and literally said to be a prophet in canon. Even if Soleum acted a false one in the Tamra Express (which happens consecutively after Story Usurper), when compared to prophet Daniel from the bible he shares stark similarities. Prophet Daniel had the ability to interpret dreams and visions. In Soleum’s case, the wiki entries are his visions. Through his sparse prior knowledge of darknesses, he's able to save many from dying. When Daniel was young he was taken captive and formed to leave his home to a foreign land, likewise Soleum was transported to another world not out of his own volition. Furthermore, we know very little about both Daniel and Soleum’s family.
When comparing characteristic attributes, Daniel was known to use his unique divine insight to wisely guide policy and governance as kings’ advisor. He was the moral and ethical standard, and reminded kings of their accountability to a higher authority (God). Additionally, his crisis management skills and clear communication underscored the imminent fall of Babylon and the king’s consequences, as well as the kingdom’s upheavals and threats. Daniel was also described as calm, rational and upheld integrity in the face of danger.
Doesn’t that all sound a little familiar? Soleum’s calmness, leadership skills, was integral to everyone’s safety and thinks logically with knowledge of what others can’t see. Moreso, Daniel was distressed when he witnessed the visions, much like Soleum’s fear of what darknesses are capable of.
In Daniel 1:8-16, Daniel was to be offered royal food and wine by the king yet he refused. To prove that he wouldn’t look worse than other young men his age, Daniel told the guard to test the king’s servants for 10 days and see if he could still look fine and healthy with just vegetables and water. After 10 days, he was described to look more nourished and healthy than the young men who ate the royal food. The reason he refused such an offer however, was because eating food sacrificed to idols beforehand would be an insult to God.
I personally think this story is similar to Braun’s Late Night Talk Show, where Braun offered food and wine to Soleum who had not eaten for a month. While he did consume food and drink, the food felt no different from nostalgia candy. Yet, after eating the churros and throwing up black water, Soleum felt much better and was no longer contaminated. Like Daniel, Soleum no matter what maintained his beliefs whilst trying not to offend someone of a higher power like Braun. Furthermore, it was important to hold a good relationship with Braun as his ‘advisor’ of sorts.
Moving on to a couple of visions Daniel had (need to wait for translations to make more connections), the first one was of four beasts (Daniel 7) who would wage war against the holy representing different nations. While not exactly four the amusement park had three mascots warring against each other, and with their land physically divided. Moreover, there are three organisations in the darkness records who have very different missions.
In Daniel 8, the vision of a rampaging ram with two horns was attacked and defeated by a goat who then grew four horns. One grew exceedingly greater than the rest, representing a future king who would desecrate the sanctuary and persecute the faithful. In the context of the story, it underlines the destructiveness of oppressive regimes. For GSGW, Viper certainly fits the description of someone who grew more dangerous after he let many die, as well being a goat. I think having thwarted Saheon’s ability to kill anyone with his own two hands, Soleum continuously delayed Viper’s development to destruction. Whether it was in conflict with the Church of the Luminous Unknown or himself, we do not know as of yet because his final exploration’s conclusion is not unrevealed. Also to note that in the bible snakes symbolise deception, danger and evil.
Matthew 25:31-46 represents goats as sinful and face judgement for failing to live according to God’s commandments, thus cursed to eternal fire and damnation. Additionally, it connected to Tamra Express wherein people were to atone for their sins, and face searing pain. However in chapter 91, it was implied that the surfing Daydream Inc. employee was Viper who (probably) lied about losing the mental defense ring that helped them survive the Tamra Express Disaster. Furthermore chapter 92 noted that the ring Soleum bought was placed on top of a, “cushion embossed with an intricate snake design.” I interpret this as Viper’s incredible stubbornness to survive, and refusal to become a sacrifice so others can atone their sins. As in the bible, goat sacrifices are something used in that manner.
Speaking of sacrifices, the final point I have is how Baek Saheon retorted Go Youngeon’s remark on how goats represent the devil, with how lambs are a symbol of sacrifice in chapter 42. While gorals are closer to goats actually, I think Youngeun’s strong desire to live and work at Daydream metaphorically says that she does not want to be relegated to a mere sacrifice for someone else. Sacrificing lambs was a gesture of appeasing God, to ensure that the one who presented it is seen as faithful. However, if the sacrifice had thoughts and feelings, what would they think?
Anyways, that’s all I have for now. There are more I could connect to Daniel’s revelation, but I need something more coherent than mtl haha. Thank you for reading all the way to the end, I’m grateful to those who read all the way. I most definitely missed some things, so if you have anything to add feel free.
Also, if you want to read my thoughts on Saheon as a #Saheonist, I made a long post about him too.
30 notes · View notes
batsplat · 1 year ago
Note
do you have any more thoughts on sete&vale rivalry? ps. love your blog!
I ALWAYS have more thoughts about the sete/valentino rivalry and if there is one person on this website who wants to read them then let's fucking go. so my issue is that when I looked at this ask the first time I thought I could maybe give like. a few thoughts. just some casual fun takes. the problem is I've been doing that anyway in my other posts, but there's really only so much point in doing that if I'm not providing any context on events that are by this point two decades old. so. time for some actual context
this isn't going to be exhaustive by any stretch of the imagination. what I'm covering here is two/three incredibly interesting years of motogp that deserve to be experienced and studied in their entirety, but alas I am but one poster on one microblogging website. so this is very much going to be the whistle-stop tour of explaining feuds, before a little bit of analysis to cap things off. (would like to state for the record that I called it 'whistle-stop' when this post was a lot shorter than it is now, but I'm leaving this paragraph in because it'll get funnier the longer you scroll. it's still not exhaustive but it's a lot more exhaustive than I thought it'd be when I wrote those sentences)
this rivalry began in an odd, uncertain period of valentino's career, at a time when valentino had essentially won motogp. he had just concluded his 2002 season and sealed his second premier class title in the process, with his results that year consisting of eleven wins, four second places and a single retirement. it was more or less as good as it gets, crushingly dominant, the undisputed lord and master of all he surveyed etc etc etc. and yet it was also a time where he was ill at ease with his role within the sport and was struggling with motivation, so much so that he increasingly found himself no longer taking joy in his racing. he ended up being so disillusioned with the existing state of affairs that he decided to make a radical move to redefine himself, to control his own destiny, to take the step from a great to a legend
which is all very abstract, in a way, removed from the realities of racing or indeed competition. this was a time in which no other rider could come close to matching valentino as a competitor and everyone basically knew as much. it adds an odd flavour to the challenges an athlete faces, where the success is such that it warps everyone's understanding of what success even looks like (not helped by how the last dominant athlete in the sport, mick doohan, also had a silly good track record in his prime). you could say, if you want, that 2002 is all about sowing, all about vale having so much success that it's started to feel a bit too easy, where he was just coasting on a wave of his own brilliance. 2003? well, now we've gotten to the reaping stage, where he's suffering under the expectations he himself has created, and all this winning is maybe already getting kind of boring
the first task in sports is not to be better than everyone else - it is to win. being better helps, but it has never been strictly necessary. there was no serious question at any point during his rivalry with gibernau who the better rider was between the pair of them. perhaps even more importantly, there was no question who the stronger between the two of them should be. over the years, valentino would have to deal with more than his fair share of young talent who proved they could match him in ability, the riders who had already long been marked for greatness and had the potential to be valentino's successors to the throne. gibernau was not that man - he was older, he was less accomplished, he was a revelation rather than anointed. it's one thing to be challenged by an alien, quite the other to be beaten by a bog standard human. especially if the bar for what constitutes being 'beaten' is set pretty low - never mind full seasons, should you even be losing individual races to this new challenger?
the rivalry between valentino and sete is not one of two equals, neither in ability nor in how their success was measured. but it became one that spawned a close title fight, courtesy of valentino unexpectedly wrestling the yamaha into title contention against his former employers at the first time of asking. valentino's main pressures in those years did not come because of any other rider, including sete - they stemmed from external forces such as honda or the press, from his internal struggles, and eventually were self-imposed in his decision to take a step into the unknown and join yamaha. the shape that this rivalry took reflected the disparity between the pair of them at every stage. valentino's biggest enemy during those years only ever could have been himself - so could sete exert himself upon this narrative at all? was he only relevant as long as valentino let him be? has he been so conclusively beaten that he has allowed valentino to erase him from his story entirely?
the first task in sports isn't to be better than everyone else... but it usually isn't quite this low down on the order of priorities. when 'being better than everyone else' is taken as read, then where does the narrative tension come from? usually, this is the kind of issue that commercial stakeholders and broadcasters and journalists and fans care about - not the dominant athlete of the time. but valentino is a storyteller and he does care. he can't handle stagnation. he can't handle being bored. he needs something to fight for and someone to fight and he needs all of it to happen on his own terms. the rivalry between valentino and sete becomes about everything except who the better rider is - and they happen to be perfectly suited characters for a rivalry such as this. for something that feels a little removed from the typical pressures of competition, of simply doing all you can to win, to beat the other guy, in whatever way you can, to rack up one victory after the other... but what we're primarily talking about here isn't numbers, it's theatre. it's show. and it's about two men who are particularly in tune with the artifice of it all, who are particularly concerned with how the world perceives them. valentino always knows where the camera is, always knows to play to it - and sete knows where it is too, which is what valentino uses to unsettle him to the point of despair
so, that's the set-up. let's bring in the context. what I'll cover here is mostly limited to what transpires during the years in which the rivalry is at its most prominent, aka 2003-05-ish, and mostly stays away from its legacy or repercussions. the first bit covers sete's emergence as valentino's rival, then how he becomes honda's best hope of stopping valentino, then the controversy that ruined their relationship, and finally how sete falls apart. after that, I'll give some of my thoughts about the rivalry and how it functions as a narrative. but again, there's a lot that's being left out here - like the bits of my notes that are just a tally of every misfortune that befalls sete gibernau post-qatar 2004. remember, kids: curses are a nasty nasty business and should be wielded with care
becoming the challenger
sete's rise to becoming a legitimate title contender was in some ways as unlikely as the manner of his downfall. born in december of 1972, so six-and-a-bit years older than valentino, his grandfather was a titan in the motorcycling industry and he grew up both affluent and surrounded by bikes. he's unusually well-educated for a rider, proficient in languages even by paddock standards - and, like valentino, a bit of an aberration from the mould of the stereotypical nineties bike racer. the reputation he had was for being a bit too vain, a bit too metropolitan, too self-absorbed to be suited to the rough-and-tumble of elite motorcycle racing
by the time he signed with the gresini honda team in 2003, his track record was very far from that of a title contender. after various wildcards in the mid-nineties, he'd finally managed to get a permanent seat first in 250cc and then in 500cc. eventually racing for repsol honda and taking doohan's bike when he was injured badly enough to force his retirement, sete's initial promise remained largely unfulfilled and he was dropped by honda after the 2000 season. he joined suzuki, who were struggling immensely in the aftermath of their title courtesy of kenny roberts jr. sete did get his first premier class win in valencia in 2001 in mixed conditions - a rare race that year valentino did not win after making a conservative tyre choice at a track he's in any case always been dreadful at. in 2002, suzuki was still struggling, though the wet conditions in estoril gave sete a chance for an early duel with valentino until he crashed. valentino said afterwards he felt sorry for sete (in a nice way not a condescending way)
Tumblr media
^sete's first ever win came in valencia far far ahead of valentino in a lowly eleventh place. incidentally, it was there that a year prior vale's late charge to an increasingly plausible rookie 500cc title came unstuck. it's fair to say it's not exactly his favourite circuit on the calendar, which some might call a sign of good taste
and then, the move to gresini honda in 2003 - to which he also brought his sponsor telefonica, who became the team's title sponsor for the next few years. as I'm sure fans of the current era are able to appreciate, while it might have been a step from a factory to a satellite squad it was a very obvious competitive upgrade. he may not have had the newest spec of honda, unlike his teammate, but he was still satisfied with his machinery and his new team
sete and valentino had already had a good relationship at this point, a friendship that extended beyond paddock walls. they'd get drunk together after races, party together on ibiza over the summer holidays - and of course there's the story of sete giving valentino advice upon his transition to 500cc. previously, valentino's most notable rivals had come from other factories, whether kenny roberts jr on the suzuki or max biaggi on the yamaha. but honda had poached biaggi for the 2003 season and - after a brief blip in 2000 -were establishing themselves once again as the overwhelmingly dominant force of the sport, boasting an embarrassment of riches both in the engineering department and in their formidable host of riders. they were the undisputed kings of motogp and were comfortable in knowing that their bikes were so good that the riders were far from essential, all easy enough to replace if they had to be. all of which meant valentino knew going into that year that his most significant challenges were likely to come from within his own house, though he would hardly have expected sete to lead the charge
but then, a tragedy in the very first race of 2003 changed things. in suzuka, gresini honda rider daijiro kato crashed and hit one of the walls, later succumbing to his injuries. kato had been a 250cc champion and was widely tipped as a future premier class champion, japan's best hope for a first in that category. even though gibernau and kato had only been teammates for a short time, sete had immediately felt welcomed within the team and had worked together closely with kato over winter testing, including helping him out in the wet conditions in which kato had long struggled
the brutality of racing is such that two weeks later, the grid were to line up again at welkom. and it was there that gibernau secured an unlikely, fantastical win from pole position holding off valentino along the way. he dedicated his victory to his fallen teammate - who he said had been with him when he was riding. he wore kato's #74 on his leathers for the rest of his career. whether rightly or wrongly, paddock consensus was that the events had transformed gibernau, had made him into someone who took his racing more seriously, had made him finally commit all his mind and body and soul to riding, to fighting, to winning
Tumblr media Tumblr media
^pointing up to the sky at welkom 2003. the number 74 is prominently placed on his upper chest to the right
it also had another effect. kato's death sparked controversy due to the layout of the suzuka track, the decision of the officials not to halt the race, and the rescue workers who had failed to follow proper medical procedure in moving him. both sete and valentino reportedly said they would not race there again, and it did end up being the last year grand prix motorcycle racing came to that track. it also prompted conversations about what could be done to better protect riders - and sete was one of the main figures behind the idea that riders themselves should have more of a say in safety standards. this led to the establishment of the safety commission, which back then included fewer riders but both valentino and especially sete involved themselves in
Tumblr media Tumblr media
^sete at a safety commission meeting
did the tragedy really transform sete's fortunes as a racer? perhaps, though the switch to honda and a team he grew so fond of surely would have helped in any case. still, the contrast in his results and how he went about achieving them is stark; we'll never know for certain, but it's understandable why it's such a popular interpretation. another factor, too - despite some initial resistance, sete ended up inheriting kato's factory-spec machinery and was now riding the same bike as the other primary contenders of that season. the first half of his 2003 quickly cemented his new status within the factory, winning again in le mans, and then in assen. by the time they reached the halfway point of the season after donington park, sete was in second place in the standings, just clear of biaggi and only 34 points behind valentino
which is where we get back to valentino and ask ourselves what the hell that man thought he was playing at. did he really believe that it was all right to sit on a mere 34-point lead halfway through the season? was valentino, at the tender age of twenty four, already washed? was he finished? was this the beginning of the end? had he already peaked? did he just not have it in him any more?
obviously the answer to all of those things is 'no' and also 'what?' - but these were questions that many, most notably in the italian press, were in all seriousness asking anyone who would listen. now, valentino had theoretically just won in donington, except en route he had overtaken under a yellow flag and was controversially stripped of that victory after the fact. which meant that - you may want to hold onto something here - valentino had gone for a whole three races without winning. that's right. three races. granted, he'd already secured three victories that season and had been on the podium every single race, but the pressure was beginning to mount on valentino to deliver. it wasn't just the three race losing streak, but also the emergence of sete as a serious rival and how he had gotten the better of valentino - first at welkom by holding him off, then at le mans by beating him on the very last lap. valentino had also separately fucked up in a duel against capirossi for the victory in catalunya (funnily enough not one of the valentino duels there everyone remembers), eventually making a big enough mistake he had to spend the rest of the race recovering to second. honda had expectations, the italian press had standards, and the sheer dominance of his 2002 campaign meant that even the slightest dips in form translated into criticism of valentino and speculation on the state of his mettle or lack thereof. and things were about to get even worse
last race before the summer break and they're headed to the sachsenring - and here we were provided with a classic valentino performance right until the very moment where it wasn't. when sete caught up with him, valentino let him go ahead to study him from behind and crack him at the very end. he made his move on the penultimate corner of the race and successfully got ahead - but made a mistake in picking a very tight line into the final corner and lost too much speed, allowing sete to beat him to the line by a mere 0.06s. the general perception was that this had been a winnable race, and that it had been lost, more than anything else, out of arrogance. he could have attacked earlier - and if he didn't, then at the very least he should have been smarter about the final corner. he had allowed sete to beat him in a straight fight for the third time that year, who was now on four wins that season to valentino's three. all this meant that valentino's winless streak had been extended to four. that's right. you heard me. valentino rossi, the man they call the goat, had the audacity to go a whole. four. races. without. winning. the italian press had a field day and were calling for blood, and who could blame them?
Tumblr media
^sete gibernau posing for a photo with a washed-up loser
luckily, valentino had the summer break to go off and clear his head and think about what he'd done. it was a good chance to get away from the constant scrutiny and criticism that had come during a year in which he'd already been feeling discontent with honda from the very beginning. the perception was that valentino had had it too easy and was resting on his laurels, no longer taking racing seriously enough, coasting on past successes that he was finding it hard to replicate - never mind his 29-point lead in the championship standings. so valentino ends up doing what is sensible in that situation. has a hot girl crisis. goes to ibiza. gets his hair dyed red. rocks up at the paddock for brno with his cool new hair as a bit of a throwback - he's still that guy who knows to have fun, he won't let any of this get to him, he's not going to take any of this too seriously
here's a more in-depth post on brno 2003 including, of course, his celebrations. to summarise - he won a tight thriller of a race and this time beat sete to the line, just about. then he celebrated by having a bunch of his fans dress up as convicts and donning his own cap and ball and chain - a 'prisoner of his own success', if you will. another step was taken that weekend on the road that would eventually lead him to abandoning honda and signing with yamaha. and here he is in his autobiography talking about his disillusionment with honda. he's not the first athlete to feel unhappy within his team, not the first dominant sportsperson to struggle to find motivation. still, when you consider how long his career ended up lasting, there's something remarkable to how quickly it threatened to turn joyless to him. if he were one of those athletes who just needed to win to be happy, he would have been fine within honda
but that's what valentino's all about, isn't it. within honda, under the ferocious glare of the italian press, he felt trapped. he felt imprisoned. he felt burdened by the expectations that his own victories had placed on his shoulders. it isn't enough for him simply to win. not if the winning isn't happening on his own terms. not if it's just another way in which honda can show off how superior their bike is. just another means for the italian press to ramp up pressure on him in the future. if valentino doesn't win, then well, it'll be gibernau. it'll be biaggi. who cares? valentino isn't essential to honda's success - the bike is. and vale decided he could no longer accept that. he returned to his roots in brno with the haircut and the celebrations and the candlelight meetings with yamaha that demonstrated his determination to forge his own path. winning is a part of him; when he wins he uses it to express himself, to define both who he is and who he is not - which is where, of course, the rivals enter the picture. valentino delineates his self against the other as much as anyone does, expressing his identity both as a racer and as a person by drawing the line between himself and his enemy and making a spectacle of what separates them. you can only win when you beat someone else, and valentino has always understood that the vanquished is very nearly as big a part of the show as the vanquisher
but here, the relationship between valentino and sete was at the very least outwardly still warm. they were both as gracious in defeat as they were in victory - helped along by the awareness that whatever the frothing italian press might pretend, valentino was unlikely to lose that year's title. still, were tensions beginning to creep in, given how valentino retrospectively speaks in his autobiography about how both biaggi and gibernau complained he had superior machinery? how about when rumours began to fly about valentino's impending move to yamaha and sete supposedly said valentino won't have so much to laugh about the next year? or the glee valentino read on sete's face at the thought of valentino's departure from honda? another point, on the ibiza trips - it's unclear when and how many times they happened, but one source suggests they had stopped in 2003. on the other hand, the brno 2003 race commentary makes multiple references to how they'd been partying together on ibiza during the summer break (which you'd have to say is pretty remarkable in itself after a race like sachsenring), and I'm inclined to trust the race commentary on this one. so maybe it's 2004 the trips tail off... at what point then did the relationship between the two of them begin to transform from friends to true rivals, however genial to begin with? how wary had valentino already grown of sete by the end of 2003?
Tumblr media
^age old tradition. sete buddy that kid is going to ruin you
in any case, the remainder of valentino's season was close to flawless, winning five of the six remaining races. in sepang, having already decided he was going to sign with yamaha come what may, he sealed the title with a dominant win over sete - and brought back the convict celebrations, except this time he had a big novelty key to open the big novelty lock, presumably to signify how he could finally escape. which is charmingly on the nose, yes, but there's something enjoyable about an athlete who is so very committed to making the subtext text. how better to conclude his time with honda, who he had grown so very disillusioned with? tell them how you really feel and all that
Tumblr media Tumblr media
^after vale has sealed the title at sepang. sete gives him a nice little kiss before assaulting him with champagne on the podium
or - not quite to a conclusion, not yet. after all, there were still two more races to go in 2003. in phillip island, he secured one of the more spectacular victories of his career when he once again fell foul of the 'could you please stop overtaking under yellow flags' thing - but this time, was informed of the situation and his ten second time penalty during rather than after the race. furious at the penalty, he flew off, setting a blistering pace that not only gave him the requisite ten second margin over his closest challenger capirossi, but eventually meant he crossed the line fifteen seconds ahead of his countryman. he had a point to prove that day, and proved it. he might have been on the best bike, yes - but he was laughably better than anyone else riding it, and the world still hadn't seen yet all that he was capable of
then came the last race of the season and the announcement honda and valentino would be holding a press conference together afterwards, widely expected to be announcing a split that for much of the year the paddock refused to believe might actually happen. one more ride on the honda that valentino must say farewell to and will dearly miss - that unfortunately took place at valencia, an ugly bore of a track that valentino has always been awful at, the only one on the calendar he had not yet conquered. but he needed to say goodbye to his beloved bike (decked in an austin powers-themed special livery) in style, and he went on to win the race before telling the world that him and honda were parting ways. time to go to yamaha and prove the haters and losers wrong - including one sete gibernau
Tumblr media Tumblr media
^honda or yamaha, friendship can survive anything <3 quite like valentino's unorthodox spraying technique in the photo on the right - sete was admirably determined to drench vale at welkom
honda's next champion?
the thing about 2004, right, is that the dominant rider in motogp had very nicely taken himself out of the picture for at least a year to try and turn that useless pile of junk into title-contending machinery. maybe rossi would start turning things around in the second half of the year and snatch an occasional win. maybe he'd put together a title charge in 2005, though that was by no means guaranteed - it was entirely plausible that his failure would be as complete as it would be spectacular. what this meant for everyone else was that they'd basically been given a freebie. a clear run at the title, as long as they could beat all the other non-rossi challengers. for a number of blokes at honda, this was the big year. biaggi, gibernau, anyone else who was feeling brave - this was the time. and honda, right, were going all in on this. rossi had the audacity, the nerve, the sheer disrespect to turn his back on them and imagine he could win without them. every rider dreamt of being decked in their colours, and valentino had walked away. they were going to throw all the considerable money and resources at their disposal behind a small army of riders, tasked not only with beating rossi but humiliating him
this is all a bit of an exaggeration, but not too much of one. as then-yamaha rider and then-valentino friend marco melandri put it in 2003, "if valentino did come to yamaha at least he would be able to give them direction with development, but he would not have a chance of winning". the best-placed yamaha rider in the 2003 championship standings had been carlos checa in seventh, and all yamaha riders combined had achieved a grand total of one podium finish that whole year. generally speaking, however, once this kind of idle speculation of 'oh imagine if he moved' actually becomes reality, the conversation does shift accordingly, and so the initial consensus of 'surely he can't win on a yamaha' of much of 2003 was already beginning to crack by the time they actually arrived at welkom. and the relationship with honda really did end on a pretty sour note, not least because valentino's former employers refused to let vale test the yamaha before his contract expired at the end of 2003 - which is generally a pretty decent barometer of whether a rider and team are parting on good terms. as valentino put it: "their attitude pissed me off. it will cost me four races, but I always knew things would be like that". in the end, obviously he was still able to make good use of the pre-season testing he did have and he was not cost "four races" - and at the very latest people had to reassess their outlook on the season when he hit the track at welkom. if anything, his immediate pace that weekend was distinctly un-valentino-like - who needs to already be fast on a friday? - and he led every session and qualified on pole. and then, he went and achieved what still remains possibly the greatest victory of his career after a thrilling battle with old foe biaggi right to the very end. sete was a very distant third
Tumblr media
^sete drenching vale at welkom. I am once again going to do 2004 prop and let you know that some of the best races are available free online: welkom, mugello, catalunya, assen and qatar are all on youtube (they should upload phillip island but ah well ed.: for some reason phillip island has been uploaded to facebook)
of course, valentino did not have it all his own way that year. of course, sete was not suddenly replaced by biaggi as vale's prime challenger. but yes, sete will have had to readjust his expectations of valentino's season the same as everyone else. after welkom, the conversation shifted definitively from 'surely not' to 'could he really...?' - and all other contenders were informed in no uncertain terms that they were not to be granted a rossi-free season. that being said, of course this still very much looked like sete's best chance. of course this wasn't going to be as straightforward as valentino's past titles. perhaps, even, welkom had provided a somewhat illusory picture of what the competitive landscape actually looked like that season. perhaps people had been too hasty to hand the title to valentino again after welkom. a wet weather specialist, sete secured victory in a rainy jerez, while valentino struggled to get his yamaha to work in the wet and finished fourth - his first time off the podium in twenty four races. at le mans, another race in tricky conditions, sete won once again and extended his championship lead while valentino took another fourth place. the spectacle of welkom might have been a flash in the pan; it might be time to reassess the kinds of results valentino could achieve on a regular basis with that machinery
Tumblr media Tumblr media
^left: valentino having fun in the wet of jerez; right: valentino's wood-themed helmet for mugello, because if you finish fourth you get a wooden medal
what followed was a pivotal stretch of three races that turned valentino's 2004 title bid from a dream to something that felt increasingly plausible, even likely. all three of these races were extremely closely fought. all three of them are very enjoyable to watch. all three of them are freely available on youtube dot com. first, they headed to mugello, a big one for both sete and valentino. valentino had won the last two races at mugello and it was the race that was more important to him than any other - so if you're sete, where better to stamp your authority on the season? the race ended up having a little bit of everything: a ferocious multi-rider scrap, a duel between the two main title contenders, a red flag and a restart due to the worsening meteorological situation that resulted in another multi-rider scrap. valentino had to make full use of his skills as well as his composure to go out and in essence win two entirely different races. after the second start he fell back as far as seventh as he figured out the grip conditions, taking his time to fuck around before eventually fucking off (or as much as you can fuck off when you only have two and a half laps left). still, sete managed to salvage a second place result and limited the points damage
Tumblr media Tumblr media
^2004 is as close to a perfect season as you can get, but there is one major factor that holds it back: the colour schemes of the title contenders. extremely similar combinations of blue with a little yellow from guys who aren't even in the same factory, let alone teammates - and jorge was always way easier to distinguish from valentino than this mess. what makes this extra stupid is that valentino's actual teammate that year, carlos checa, had a RED livery and RED leathers so. okay. great job guys. anyway, cracking race, split into two halves (or well. four fifths and a fifth). apparently, sete overtook valentino at some point under a yellow flag - or, at least, valentino says he did, which is something he remembers just in time for that year's sepang press conference
so a home victory secured and a hat trick of mugello wins - time to head back to sete land and fight it out in catalunya. top five valentino catalunya duel for sure, a pretty crowded category. sete had led every single session going into the race, but in the end he came out second best in a fight that went on until the very last lap. no longer was valentino willing to let sete get the better of him in head-to-head combat, and the victory was even sweeter coming as it did on sete's home turf - and indeed valentino would establish a bit of a tradition of beating spaniards at that track. the tide was turning and increasingly it did look like valentino might actually achieve the impossible
"One hundred and five thousand screaming Spaniards roar on their hero Sete Gibernau. He's something of an unexpected hero really. After so many years in grand prix, he lived in the shadow of Alex Criville. Criville's retired, Gibernau is on the Honda, and Gibernau is leading the world championship."
^excerpt from the catalunya 2004 commentary
and then, the next race: time for assen
Tumblr media
^still friendly and chatting before the first real trial their relationship faces. by the by, the commentary for this race references a cartoon proposing that all that valentino needs to do to keep sete behind him is to attach a mirror to the back of his bike - because sete would be too busy posing. which gives you a general sense of the tone people used to discuss sete with
coming into this race, sete had gotten two consecutive second places to valentino. his championship lead had shrunk to five points. valentino had already gotten the yamaha into race-winning shape sooner than anyone had expected, and now it increasingly looked like he might be able to achieve the week-to-week results that won championships. it also did not help that sete's defeats had come in direct duels with valentino - in the early days of that rivalry, this exact type of duel had been how sete had announced himself as a serious threat. if it came down to another direct fight between the two of them, sete badly wanted to get a win over his rival, not just for points but for pride. and valentino, conversely, wanted to press home the advantage, to bite harder when his opponent was already bleeding. if you will
this turned into a bit of a three-way tussle between those two and barros, but then barros crashed out and it was just the two of them - going into the very last lap with sete ahead. valentino, who was having to risk far more on the yamaha than he ever did on the honda, made a lunge up the inside of turn 12 and almost binned it in the following corner. nearly losing the front resulted in contact with sete, where sete's front wheel hit the rear of vale's bike and damaged the front mudguard - and in the end sete backed off just a touch, allowing vale to cross the line with almost half a second in hand
valentino was enthusiastic in his celebrations, shall we say, whereas sete... well. sete did not look thrilled. gone were the usual parc fermé exchanges, no more hugs or friendly handshakes or kisses. sete suffered his way through the podium celebrations as the wettest of wet blankets, popping the champagne for about half a second and staying rooted in place while valentino carried on doing his thing. the natural assumption would be that sete was furious not just at losing but at the manner in which the pass for the victory was executed, out of control and in a way that could have easily resulted in a crash for both of them. valentino certainly assumed as much, saying that sete was "for sure a little bit angry" (clip here, also includes sete's statement). but when it was sete's turn to speak... he just said he was frustrated at losing, as anyone would be in his situation. which, well, doesn't quite fit in with his reaction, and also doesn't entirely match up with other statements he made at the time. there are two more sets of quotes from the protagonists of the race, though I can't determine with absolute certainty in which order these things were said. here's the first (article dated day of the race):
Gibernau lost vital time in that clash and was not able to challenge on the remainder of the lap but Rossi insists he did not deliberately block the Telefonica Movistar Honda rider. "I came into the bend a little too quickly and I slightly lost control of the front of my Yamaha, which explains why I touched him, but it wasn't intentional," he said. Gibernau did not use the incident as an excuse for his defeat. "To be overtaken in the final meters after dominating the race, it's obviously gutting," said the Spaniard. "I was angry about the way he overtook me. His manoeuvre really was risky. He said he didn't do it on purpose, but it doesn't take away my disappointment."
and here's the second (article dated the day after the race):
"I made a mistake and had to brake early or I would have crashed," said Rossi, explaining why he slowed so suddenly in front of the Spaniard. "I did not even feel Sete touch me. He was very angry, but I explained what happened." For his part, and after having chance to cool down, Gibernau appeared to accept that the contact hadn't been deliberate. "I had a good chance right until the end but we touched on the last lap - Valentino explained that he almost fell and, if that's the case, then there's nothing for me to say," shrugged Sete. "These things happen in racing. We had a good battle in another great race."
if that indeed is the order in which their statements were delivered, this whole episode feels like an interesting exercise in passive aggressive feuding - sete could have of course simply gone up to valentino, supposedly his friend, and asked for an explanation, or stated his objections openly when asked about them in the presser. instead, it seems to have been valentino who offered his explanations after sete had denied even having any issue with the overtake, with sete contradicting himself later by saying he had been angry. even then, sete said it didn't "take away my disappointment", which suggests not all was forgiven. from parc fermé to the podium to the press conference, he'd used every part of his body with full effect to express his displeasure with the notable exception of his mouth. this incident hasn't really been brought up by either party since, but as far as the eye test goes the relationship sure seemed like it was pretty strained by this. with the benefit of hindsight, it stands out as a turning point in their rivalry, the first time the veneer of the gracious loser was well and truly discarded and a sour note was added to the relationship. this was also the race where the championship lead was taken away from gibernau on countback, which incidentally was the last time an independent rider led the world championship standings until... uh... *squints at notes* argentina 2018
Tumblr media
^already post-assen - but no reason not to be civil, right? what's a little last lap assen controversy between friends. scholars will note that this is the race after which valentino engaged in some unsavoury parc fermé activities with sete's then-teammate colin edwards
for the sake of brevity, the next part of the season is mostly going to be skipped over, but to give you the sparknotes version: sete's results grew more inconsistent, and valentino gained more of an advantage, despite still having to over-ride the bike in a way that helped cause his dnf in rio (his first dnf since brno 2002 and his first non-mechanical dnf since mugello 2001). apart from a brief period where biaggi seemed like he was going to reinsert himself in the title fight, plus a sete win in brno, for the most part the tide had clearly turned in valentino's favour and that yamaha title was looking more and more like a certainty. so let's pick up the narrative at the next major flashpoint between the pair of them, at motogp's first visit to qatar
I've already written up a post that gives more information on that race and the specifics of the controversy, so I'll forgo another detailed summary of events here. the basic facts we have at our disposal are that valentino's team, whether to his knowledge or not, rubbered up his spot of the grid, and he was then penalised for it. he worked his way up from the back of the grid before crashing out of fourth place. sete won, reducing the gap separating the two riders at the top of the standings to a mere fourteen points with three rounds to go. valentino was furious at sete, at honda, at the stewards, at pretty much everyone. here are some of his remarks:
"Gibernau's victory is not real. They stole the match from us with the shameful farce of the penalty. A truly incredible situation occurred. Everyone cleans the starting 'box'. Is there a written rule? In Rio we all went to wash the track, which was dirty. The same thing happened here. In F1 the cars skid, the asphalt is cleaned with the motorbikes. After Friday's practice [before the Saturday race] we saw Biaggi's mechanics cleaning the track and we thought it was a good idea. We cleaned the track and Honda screwed up. The others have to attach themselves to something. Gibernau and his chief suspension mechanic didn't hesitate to snitch like kids. Something ridiculous. I didn't expect to get to this point. In the race I gave a lot in the early stages, after two corners I was eighth and after four laps I was already in fourth position. I spent a lot and relaxed for a moment. Unfortunately I went wide and couldn't find the curb anymore. I made a mistake, but I wouldn't have made such a mistake if I had started from the front. I hope to make up for it in Malaysia, fortunately I didn't get hurt in the crash. It went well for the finger, when I saw the blood I was scared. But the finger didn't explode."
^some of these websites have a habit of collating a bunch of different answers into one paragraph of remarks but personally I am choosing to believe he did actually deliver this as a single monologue
valentino also said he had been looking for an excuse not to speak to sete, called him a child, saying sete had essentially stabbed him in the back. and of course, so the legend goes, he infamously vowed that sete would never win another race again
who snitched?
everything up until now has been more or less just summarising events as they happened - but now we enter considerably murkier waters. we do not definitively know one way or another what happened in qatar, who said what, who was responsible for what. let's get the less important mystery out of the way first: did valentino really curse sete?
no, not in the sense of 'did valentino rossi really perform black magic' - more the question of if he ever really said it. a lot of journalists who are otherwise at least mildly reputable seem to take it as read, but also a lot of journalists are motivated to believe he said it because it makes for a fantastic story. when did he say it? to whom? one source talks about it being at the press conference of the following race, which I know for a fact is not the case. here's a source that is one of the ones to have swayed me more to the side of 'yeah maybe he did say it':
Rossi then did an interview with Italian TV. He’d hurt his little finger, really mashed it up, in the crash. And he famously said “I will make sure Gibernau will never win another race because of this”. We’ve all got a soft spot for Valentino, and I can remember thinking ‘oh God, I wouldn’t have said that if I were you. I really wouldn’t have said that…’
I know this is objectively not a lot to go on, but at least it's a commentator/journalist who was there at the time, claiming they remember finding out about it, giving a little detail about to whom it supposedly was said ('italian tv') and having an immediate response to it that they are also remembering. obviously, this too could be bogus. but, well, at the end of the day I'm with the journalists here: I too want it to be true because it is indeed a fantastic story. there has also been the suggestion, again poorly sourced, that valentino has denied saying this - or, and this genuinely would be my favourite option of them all, that he said he only meant it for that year. hate it when I place a curse on someone and it accidentally lasts too long
now that I've done my due diligence, here's the good bit: beyond a certain point, it does not matter whether valentino actually said it or not. what mattered is that everyone thought he said it - and, crucially, as 2005 wore on, it became ever more part of the discourse. it was part of the reporting of races: could gibernau finally break the curse? it was discussed extensively in the commentary: we're back in qatar, do curses have an expiration date of a year or not? there is no way that within the claustrophobic world of the motogp paddock sete would have been been able to avoid it, let alone be unaware of it entirely. (incidentally, the fact that this is the case and I've not been able to find a better source of valentino denying it makes me again feel like he did actually say it - though I suppose it'd also be pretty funny if he hadn't said it but was like. actually this is working out quite nicely for me.) assuming for a moment that valentino is not capable of literally cursing people, the 'real effect' the curse can have is only in tormenting its victim through the mere knowledge of its supposed existence
but we're getting ahead of ourselves here. whether the curse existed or not, it could only have the effect it had if valentino fulfilled its initial promise - by denying sete another win that season while securing the title for himself. so let's just quickly recap where we're at: three rounds to go, fourteen points between the two contenders. valentino went back to italy to try and fix the fucked up finger and presumably to cool off a bit. the motogp media did what it does best and spent the entire week hyping up the drama. and there was, of course, another mystery everyone was still trying to get to the bottom of: was sete really involved in valentino's penalty?
let's first tack on another question: does it even matter? of course, the truth has never been established with 100% certainty either way, and all it does is give the two parties a reason to blow up a friendship that was already getting a little bit strained. either way, the relationship between them was ruined; either way, valentino crushed sete. not just that - whether it really happened or not is one thing, but I feel just a touch more confident in asserting that valentino believed it happened, just from my extreme vibes-based analysis of how genuinely furious he seemed and how he was still referring to sete's dirty games a whole eleven years later. which, of course, doesn't in itself really tell us one way or another what actually happened. valentino can convince himself of all manner of things. if anything, his track record as well as how ruthlessly he exploited the situation to his own advantage count against believing his version of events. and, at the end of the day, only one of valentino and sete can speak to sete's involvement in the protest that caused the penalty with complete certainty. it's not valentino
and in a way, it doesn't really matter. sete is unsettled either way - because even if he did have some hand in the penalty, this is the kind of low level petty snitching athletes and their teams constantly engage in. I cannot imagine he would have thought valentino would react as he did. quite honestly, I'm not sure sete could have conceived of a rival reacting like that to anything. if sete was responsible, then valentino still managed to escalate to a level of hostility sete would never have been able to match, let alone be comfortable with. obviously, it would not be in his interest to retroactively admit any involvement in the matter, not least because he saw how valentino responded to the mere assumption of sete's guilt. it does, however, still matter in evaluating sete's assertions that the relationship between them changed more or less from one day to the next (which *gestures at the above wall of text* I'm not entirely convinced by), and in judging whether this is a feud that's entirely built on the back of valentino's delusions. was sete really completely unaware and, a separate question - was it an unreasonable assumption from valentino that he was involved? if both of those questions are answered in the affirmative, then you do have to say what follows must have been absolutely bonkers from sete's perspective. I mean, it's kind of bonkers anyway, but. y'know. even more so
the problem with actually evaluating the claims are that basically every source about it frames the whole thing differently and often in contradictory ways, to the point where even valentino's actual allegation has been shrouded in the mists of time. different journalists and commentators and authors after the fact have confidently asserted that either hrc or sete's gresini team lodged the protest - some seem to take it as read that sete did indeed have some kind of role in it, and there is no indication whether they have some kind of privileged information that backs this up or whether this is simply valentino's influence making itself felt. hrc is obviously a likely suspect, given they canonically hate valentino and are praying for his downfall and have invested a whole lot already to bring it about. then again, gresini are the ones who are actually in this championship battle - and, of course, there's the distinct possibility that all parts of honda were involved in this together. other figures that have been brought up are gresini team principal fausto gresini who it has been claimed was personally involved in making the protest - this from the stuart barker biography, which treats it essentially as established fact. the barker biography also says that yamaha was not found to be breaking any specific rules, but race direction said it was against the 'spirit' of the sport, which... okay, I'd also be pretty annoyed to be penalised for that, especially at that stage of the season. while it is of course possible that sete was not involved in his own team's actions, it does seem a little less likely that he would not have at the very least been informed. to add another twist, one version of the story that has cropped up more than once is that valentino's allegation was that sete and his crew chief juan martinez went to hrc to get them to go to race direction. also, it may be that ducati protested both valentino and biaggi (who was definitely breaking the rules). which, good on them
unfortunately this is pretty inconclusive stuff and at a certain point it feels like you have nothing better than gut feeling to rely on to choose which narrative is more convincing to you. which is annoying! where's the substantial evidence! nowhere, it appears, not that I've been able to find it - but there is one more tangible source that I haven't brought up until now. you see, dorna, in their infinite commitment to the bit, have been kind enough to make the thursday press conference at the very next race one of the very few of that era that they have uploaded in its entirety. I am talking, of course, of the pre-event press conference at sepang
Tumblr media
^posing for a friendly post-presser photo <3 two guys just chillin' having fun having a laff
if you are an aficionado of awkward and tense and kind of awful press conferences, then you will have an excellent time with this one. I've uploaded pretty much all of the relevant bits that I'll link to as I go; they're not obligatory watching to understand the rest of the post as I will be covering them here anyway, but they sure are interesting (and funny, which is really the most important thing)
first, let's set the scene: four blokes sitting at a table. the seat at its centre sits empty. the championship leader has not yet arrived when the press conference starts, removing the opportunity for one of the most sacred rituals that preempts any motogp press conference: the vibe check. a lot has happened and a lot has been said since the relevant parties last saw each other face to face and it is unclear where the vibes will be at when the reunion happens. will they acknowledge each other? make eye contact? shake hands? speak to each other? the journalists have not had a chance to find out. and one of the two involved parties has not either
after some softball questions relevant to 'racing' and 'points' in 'motogp' and its 'title fight', the moderator finally gets to the bit everyone's actually here for: the drama [1]. at this point, sete dates both the presser and himself by saying he's been trying to block everything out with his "mp3", before expressing his sympathy for valentino and saying he doesn't hold any of valentino's words spoken in the heat of the moment against him. at some point, he delivers a couple of lines that possess the kind of concentrated narrative juice you get a sugar high from, saying "we all know valentino. I know how he really is, he's a good guy". just as he finishes answering the question, his eyes flick over to the side - and the camera pans over to valentino entering the room with a slight smirk and of course his big ass sunglasses still very much adorning his face
nicky hayden sits to valentino's left and is interviewed before valentino is - while valentino does not acknowledge sete, who is sitting to his right. when he is questioned [2], valentino initially sounds like he is intending to turn the page on the whole affair and if anything doesn't particularly want to comment any further on what has happened. he also manages to deliver a truly classic motogp rider line, saying "I have a hole in the finger, but I think it is not a big problem for ride this weekend". right! but already here, it becomes swiftly clear that he is still furious at what happened and aggrieved by the penalty. he caps things off with a nice line saying that at least he wasn't actually slower than 'gibernau' in qatar, before turning around and shaking hayden's hand and chatting to him
it immediately becomes clear that all the questions from the floor are going to be about the same thing [3], and sete looks miserably uncomfortable while valentino just comes across as incredibly surly, his smile at times taking on a mildly murderous quality. one journalist fires off an all time classic presser question with "in qatar you say you were searching for an excuse to not talk any more with sete" and again valentino side steps, half-making it sound like he's willing to move on - while sete continues to strike a conciliatory note, continues to stress how it was all just the heat of the moment. but a follow-up question to valentino gives the journalists and sete the clearest indication that this, in fact, is really happening. valentino says this is not in the past, that he'd already said what he thinks last week and is standing by it. sete looks over at him - with disbelief, with incredulity, with the air of a man who really can't quite believe the turn this has taken
if there had been any lingering doubt at how unfairly treated valentino feels, he dispels it in his answer about stewarding decisions [4]. at the end of his exchange with the reporter about it, he brings up an incident where sete overtook under a yellow flag in mugello - which, quite honestly, I had not known about and I haven't found any reference to, so maybe nobody did spot it at the time if it indeed happened. remember, valentino had gone through not one but two bad run-ins with the yellow flag situation the year before, costing him a win at donington and making him ride at his limit to reclaim the win at phillip island. did he speak about this mugello situation at the time, or has he really just carried it around with him silently for months? a professional grudge-carrier, you have to say, a true master at the art. at the next question, valentino continues putting space between himself and sete [5], saying they have been rivals for a long time and that "it's the same condition" (i.e. situation). the friendship isn't just gone, it's so gone it might as well have never existed. if you really want to read more into this than the short response deserves, you could argue he's saying the facade has been lifted, that the true nature of the rivalry has been revealed at last
and now, we get to the critical part: sete is invited to explain himself and tell the press whether he had any involvement in the penalty or not [6]. he's clearly put a lot of thought into this in the past week and decided what he should focus on is that he wanted all the grid slots to be cleaned in the interest of safety. interestingly, he says "they" blocked him from doing that, but it's unclear whether he means gresini or someone else within honda. (presumably honda couldn't have known valentino's team would fuck about with a scooter, and remember camel honda rider biaggi also got a penalty so probably not some kind of company-wide internal memo.) (I mean I guess it'd also be funny if there had been a company-wide internal memo but nobody had thought to send it to biaggi.) sete's argument is basically that he'd be a hypocrite if he'd helped lodge a protest after he himself wanted the grid slots cleaned up - but given that valentino is quite literally calling him a backstabbing bastard, I imagine he wouldn't consider adding the hypocrite tag a bridge too far. the safety commission element of it all is kind of interesting, given as we've established valentino will likely have attended too. if sete raised this at the meeting and valentino did end up discussing it with his team, did vale end up feeling suckered into making a bad choice? probably not, just a thought
anyway, back to gibernau's response. as the journalist who asked the initial question notes, this is all a lot of waffling without a clear, firm denial (I'm paraphrasing) - and a clear, firm denial would generally be a good way to go about these things. in his next answer, sete again fails to just keep things simple, though again he denies any personal involvement. and then, the journalist asks sete to account for his team, including the fact that apparently one of sete's mechanics gave evidence to race direction... and sete says he can only speak for himself
so there we have it. that's the best singular piece of actual evidence I've got for sete's involvement, and at least comes close to confirming that somebody in gresini was involved in the protest, however tangentially. obviously, this in no way confirms sete was himself involved. at least it does give valentino an ever so slightly more reasonable basis of suspicion, though obviously it all just raises more questions like 'why was a gresini mechanic even giving evidence and what about'. that bit is then of course immediately followed by an exchange that's as good a confirmation as we're going to get that it was hrc not gresini who made the protest. so. yeah. I've got nothing. we don't know. draw your own conclusions. the presser ends with another question for good measure about the relationship between the two riders. sete first tells them, more or less, that it's none of their business before sharing a nice laugh with valentino about how valentino is never going to talk to him again
cursed
the thing about that press conference is that it's all well and good and fun to use it to try and piece together what really happened at qatar, but there are more interesting things to say about it. it is in that press conference that valentino well and truly begun the process of breaking sete, and he did so completely deliberately. it's quite the little show featuring two guys who are entirely aware that they are surrounded by cameras and reporters and are reacting accordingly. sete is committed to being dignified, to being unflappable, to being magnanimous: whatever valentino said, he will forgive him. he is happy to move on. but as the press conference progresses, he is slowly made to realise that his opponent is the one who is not ready to forgive and is not ready to play nice - not even for the cameras. especially not in front of the cameras
Tumblr media
^his poor pinkie finger :(
sete must have felt on top of the world after qatar. he had clawed back 25 points. a championship that had already seemed lost suddenly felt like it might be in his grasp once again. valentino could complain and whine and be furious for italian television, but surely this is the kind of thing that blows over. for too long, sete is under the mistaken impression that they will move on from this. for too long in that presser, sete is playing at respectability while valentino has already progressed to open hostility. it's unnerving, of course it is, to suddenly be completely cold-shouldered and ignored by a man you had thought you were on reasonably good terms with a week ago. it's unnerving for it all to happen in front of cameras, when for so long you have been striving to present a cordial, friendly, civilised image of a rivalry. him and valentino don't do all that nasty business, not like valentino and biaggi. sete's better than that and valentino has grown up a bit - this is one of those ideal rivalries people are always going on about, the ones that are ferocious on-track but respectful and even warm off it. and so, despite everything valentino had said to the press over the past week, he still manages to completely blindside sete in the moment. he still manages to leave him unsettled, and even disoriented
and so we get to the race itself, pivotal for sete and his championship hopes. to still have a chance at clinching the title, he really needs to be fighting at the sharp end of all three of the remaining races. alas, it is not to be. valentino is reinvigorated after the humiliation of qatar and coasts through the weekend on a wave of irreverent indignation - telling reporters after qualifying on pole that this result had been important "especially since it means we know which part of the grid to clean tonight". he thrives in the chaos and the frenzied speculation and the seething tension - whereas sete is nowhere to be found all weekend. valentino wins with a comfortable margin while sete finishes a lowly seventh place. a healthy thirty point lead in the championship has been restored. now, then, in victory valentino has been provided with the opportunity to really twist in the knife. sete comes up alongside him on the cooldown lap, clearly wanting to shake hands - and valentino completely ignores him, does not as much as glance in his direction. then, he stops for one of those whimsical planned celebrations that he's ever so fond of, and he cleans his grid slot with a helpfully provided broom. as valentino says afterwards, "this time I wanted to destroy the morale of everybody". and if that wasn't enough, he adds in the post-race press conference "for me, sete did the best race of the season. he has given me a lot of points, which is like a big present. I am really grateful". charming as ever
Tumblr media Tumblr media
^he also came up with his own cleaning crew founded with his trusty crew chief jerry burgess, 'la rapida', and had shirts mocked up - to 'eliminate dirt from motogp'. so nice to have a supportive crew chief, isn't it? from valentino after the race: "I've been working with jeremy for four years, together we've seen all sorts of things and when I arrived here I saw him with an incredible face, disgusted, saddened. he and the team said we had to react and so we did". and as jb put it, "valentino is the sort of rider I wouldn't want to get angry. he can take you apart on the track". the text on the shirt: "we clear out rats. we disinfect, clear drains and clean starting grids. we also do night jobs - all done in six seconds [aka the qualifying penalty he'd received]"
two races to go, and it's match point rossi. he finishes first or second at phillip island and the championship is his for certain - if he doesn't do so and sete wins the race, it's hello title decider. there is barely any doubt left in people's minds, then, about who the 2004 champion will be... but it's not a done deal. in the very worst case scenario, valentino enters the final round with a slender six point advantage. he's not safe yet. he's not safe yet on the very first lap, which, it has to be said, is a lot of fun. vale gets a better start than sete does from pole, but sete overtakes him around the outside and vale is quickly pushed to third - then fourth, at which point he runs off track and makes a risky excursion into the dirt. at the very next corner, he makes a downhill overtake on two ducatis at once, and sets about hunting down sete who has built up an advantage of over a second
so, in fittingly dramatic fashion, the race comes down to a duel between the two of them, valentino stalking sete around the track lap after lap. if valentino holds his ground, the championship is his - but sete takes the win and can go into the next season with new confidence and self-belief and hope for something better. valentino does not just want to avenge the injustice of qatar; this is an investment for the future. a way of telling sete that he has not just lost this season but that he will always lose, when fighting valentino. there is a promise to be kept, after all - whether it was only supposed to apply to that season or not, valentino refuses to let sete win another race. they exchange overtakes but sete is still just about in the lead when they enter the final lap. it is here that valentino makes his move, not once but twice to make it stick. his riding in that last lap isn't egregiously reckless but certainly not risk-free, and could have ended with him in the gravel and the championship still undecided in valencia. but he's not and it isn't - and just like his first premier class title (a comparison valentino himself makes in his autobiography), his first title with yamaha is sealed on the last lap of phillip island. his championship-winning shirt is uncharacteristically stark, reading simply 'che spettacolo' ('what a spectacle/show') - and he's not wrong. this has been a show, it's been a miracle, and in the end it's been theatre. he's sealed the title in style while also getting his revenge. it's winning in the most satisfying manner you can win anything: by beating somebody you loathe. celebrations are nice, but isn't there just something special about seeing the person you despise look so wholly miserable?
sete puts on a brave face, determined to be above valentino's pettiness. he goes over, shakes valentino's hand. valentino accepts. of course he does - he's won. sete was a few corners away from denying valentino's curse before it had ever really sunk its claws in. would it have changed things, if he could simply have regained a little confidence and found his bearings again after the psychological onslaught of the sepang weekend? maybe, maybe not. of course, looking at valentino's 2005 season, you have to say valentino was almost certainly operating on a level no version of sete would have been able to match. but there's still a lot of room between 'fighting for a championship' and 'becoming a shell of the rider you once were' - and if things had gone a little differently, you do also have to say that a championship as open as 2006 was could have represented opportunity for all manner of rider. if only he'd been able to cauterise the wound in phillip island, rather than letting valentino dig his teeth in even further
Tumblr media
^at least capirossi's having a good time :D
the championship sealed and there's but one round to go. once again the paddock must regrettably visit a track that some critics have described as 'drab' and 'soulless' and 'the enemy of good racing', and one at which valentino has only won once before. but the way to tease out a special performance from valentino is generally to give him a point to prove, add in a little spite to get the fires spitting, and he wins at the circuit for the second (and last) time of his career. in front of the spanish fans too, which must have felt particularly satisfying - and the race itself isn't all too bad in the first half (the way valentino gets past gibernau/biaggi is quite funny). home hero sete takes fourth, and that's a wrap on the 2004 championship
there's something deceptively comfortable about the final numbers: 304 points to 257. 47 points. no problem. but sports isn't just numbers; it's the story those numbers tell. valentino was furious in qatar and he made a mistake and he ended up in a position where things don't have to go all that differently for him to lose the title. the momentum was on the side of his enemy, whose confidence and morale had been given a much-needed boost. the genius of the entire sepang weekend, from the press conference to his jibes in interviews to his dominance performance-wise to the cold shoulder to the pointed celebrations, was that they all worked together to stop that momentum cold
maybe it didn't make much of a difference - valentino was always in the stronger position given he both had a points advantage and was the faster man. but faster men have lost championships before. ignore raw pace and performance edge and all of that: valentino wrested control of the intangibles - momentum, self-belief, all of those abstract things that defy rational analysis - and brought them firmly back onto his side. sete spent the entire weekend off balance, unsettled, forced to discuss things that made him uncomfortable, engulfed in a media storm he was ill-suited to coping with. all the while, valentino relished it and used it to spur himself on. by the time sete had regrouped in phillip island and was far cooler - if still respectful - towards valentino, it was already too late
in the interest of eventually finishing this post, we're not going to cover sete's downfall in that much depth. but there is still one last critical blow that valentino has to inflict to truly bring an end to the gibernau experiment. the very first race of 2005 was one that valentino particularly wanted to win - not just to inform his competitors that this year would be more of the same, but also because they were once again on sete's home soil. time for jerez
Tumblr media
^new year, new sete! this time he's going to show that italian upstart what's what
as ever, the media had done its best to hype up this new season. sete would be getting full support from the factory (which, yes, feels like maybe they should have considered providing a touch earlier) and he made it clear he was ready for the challenges ahead, ready to get revenge and all that. the spanish had grown fonder of their unexpected challenger too, and showed up in full force to support their man in the opening race. of course, a lot of people quietly agreed that realistically speaking, the competitive picture was looking pretty ominous. 2004 should have been the season in which valentino got the yamaha project up and running, setting up a title challenge in 2005. but he was ahead of schedule and surely the yamaha would only get stronger. still, you never know, right? that's why we line up on sunday etc etc
valentino stole pole position from sete right at the end of qualifying, but crashed in warm-up and ended up using his second bike, which is never ideal. the start was already feisty from both parties, and for a while valentino was relegated back to third. but sooner rather than later, he assumed his familiar position sitting right on sete's rear tyre, showing sete his wheel here and there just to remind him where he was. remember the whole sachsenring debacle after which valentino told himself that he wasn't going to leave it that late again? well, he was actually nice and sensible here, and made a move with two laps to go, successfully passing sete for the lead
which should have been the end of it. nice and clinical, a lovely relatively stress-free culmination of a whole race's work where valentino had diligently studied his opponent's strengths and weaknesses and had formulated his plan accordingly. job done, another win on the board to start the season. except then valentino decided to make things interesting again on the very last lap by out-braking himself on the back straight and running it wide into turn 6, allowing sete back through. there's a slightly frenetic energy with which valentino immediately hops back onto sete's rear wheel, already a touch of desperation about his lunge on the inside of turn 11 where he briefly goes past - but he's in too hot and sete's back in front
what all this means is that valentino really only has one opportunity left at turn 13 and barely any time to conceive of it. there's no planning or calculation or strategy here. valentino has one option to attack if he wants to win this race. it's a dive that is instinctive rather than planned - the only calculation here is that he would rather crash them both out than let sete win the race. back then (and a bit ironic from a modern point of view), valentino's infamous dangled leg was seen as evidence that he was out of control, doing anything he could to get the bike stopped while going for a gap that wasn't really there to be gone for. they make contact, valentino manages to get the bike turned and sete goes off into the gravel, but can get the bike back on track to finish second. valentino does a wheelie over the line. sete makes a thumbs down gesture
the spanish fans decide pretty quickly whose side they're taking in this. there's booing, whistling as valentino completes his victory lap, going full ham as he pumps his fists and claps at them and does a thumbs up and waves and puts his hand on his hip and all the rest of it as they scream at him. parc fermé is tense, the eye of the storm in the midst of the deafening roars of the crowd, with sete giving vale a couple of long looks as he gets off the bike. it's all big drama, everyone consulting their teams, talks of appeals to race direction, valentino grimly satisfied while sete is aggrieved, furious - stretching out his arm, clutching it, shaking his head while shaking teammate melandri's hand. he approaches valentino, says a few words to him as he walks past - valentino is not particularly interested in engaging in conversation. the crowd demands valentino's disqualification, and also call him a son of a whore. they're also obviously still booing. and whistling. lots of noise
on their way to the podium, sete is making tortured progress, pausing for a moment in the stairwell to clutch at his arm. at this point, valentino takes a moment to take the piss out of his rival, turning to the camera with a big smile and gesturing at sete. eventually they make it to the podium and vale laps up the displeasure of the spanish crowd. valentino smirks while sete goes for a sort of pained dignity, thanking the spanish crowd for their support, claiming the moral victory and all that. the italian anthem is almost inaudible
Tumblr media Tumblr media
^sete always tried to go for a kind of stoically disapproving vibe, helped along this time by his pain in the shoulder. unfortunately for him, he does just come across as thoroughly defeated. which he was
the problem that sete faces here is that, while valentino is obviously more accustomed to a rather friendlier reception, it's also not like he particularly minds the spaniards giving him a hard time. valentino has claimed his fourth victory in succession, and has done so by once again denying sete on the very last lap. he has sent a message that this new season will be exactly the same as the last and that he remains exactly as determined to make sete's life miserable. while he does seem to think sete is playing up the shoulder injury, in general sete's solemn grimaces are like catnip to him. just before the anthem, he reaches out to shake first melandri's hand and then sete's - and sete hesitates, before extending his arm to the fullest extent to shake valentino's hand with about as little proximity as is physically possible. it's good sportsmanship, but it does also as good as tell valentino he's not going to kick up too big a fuss. in a way, whatever choice he made would have played into valentino's hands. even though this time sete may have directly confronted valentino, he's still not prepared to escalate things beyond that... and valentino knows it
Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media
^one of the classic rancid vibes podiums. the hands on hips at the ceaseless spanish booing is a nice touch
this choice to avoid further escalation is one sete continues to abide by in the press conference, echoing the assen presser from the year before beat for beat. again, valentino comments that it was a great battle, that sete is surely angry but, essentially, it is what it is ("this is the racing"). again, sete congratulates valentino for the win, but refrains from complaining about valentino's actions during the race. he has since said that he talked to race direction about it and was incredibly disillusioned about their choice not to penalise valentino - but again, not a whisper of it to the media with valentino sitting next to him
the one thing he did say was that he hoped he'd be fit to race in estoril because of his shoulder. remember the whole clutching at his arm routine where valentino (and the commentators) were kinda taking the mickey out of sete's comically pained expressions? well, um, turns out he did have a lot of pre-existing shoulder problems, and indeed that was the bit of his body that caused him considerable problems for the rest of his motogp career:
Gibernau dislocated his collarbone when he crashed out of the lead of the 2002 Portuguese Grand Prix on a Suzuki GSV-R, suffered a left shoulder tendon injury during his last turn clash with Valentino Rossi at Jerez 2005, then damaged the same shoulder further when he fell in practice for the following Estoril round. At the 2006 Catalan Grand Prix, Gibernau broke his left collarbone after spectacularly tangling with Ducati team-mate Loris Capirossi at the start of the race. Gibernau required a further operation shortly after when the titanium plate inserted to help his collarbone heal was found to have weakened. The new plate was in turn damaged when Gibernau hit Casey Stoner's fallen Honda in the penultimate round of the season, again at Estoril, marking the end of Gibernau's factory Ducati - and, it seemed - MotoGP career. Before making his 2009 MotoGP comeback, Gibernau had the metal plate removed from his collarbone, only to suffer shoulder ligament damage during training - forcing him to miss the final pre-season test.
well, anyway, after the controversy has had two weeks to continue on full steam, valentino does strike a somewhat more contrite note in the estoril pre-event press conference. he says he hadn't been aware of the whole shoulder situation and that sete had been unlucky given it had been a light touch in a slow corner... but having rewatched the footage he can see how, yes, maybe the contact could have hurt sete. these things happen, right? and at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter for valentino, because the controversy blows over. what remains is the blow (psychological rather than physical) he dealt sete. what remains is that he won and sete lost, again, and sete has still failed to win since qatar
"And I really think that as long as he wins this race, even if he only takes five points back off Valentino Rossi, he will be happy with that, because it's all about getting back to winning ways. He hasn't won since Qatar last October. He's got to take a victory, just to get his season back on course. Valentino Rossi is going to take a lot of stopping, and really all he can do is try and win this race in front of his home crowd." [...] "That race in Qatar, and the problems they had in that race with Valentino Rossi crashing out after having to start from the back of the grid was really when all the problems started, didn't it, for Sete Gibernau. [...] But really that's where his problems started, both on and off the track for Sete Gibernau after that race victory in Qatar. I really can't believe he would've believed that was going to happen. He was so, so pleased to win that race." [...] "This is a big big thirteen laps for Sete Gibernau, isn't it. If he can hold off Valentino Rossi, psychologically, it would be a very very big victory for him."
^excerpts from the catalunya 2005 commentary, the sixth round of the season. valentino had said in the presser after the preceding race that he expected biaggi and melandri to be his main rivals that season. sete leads for almost the entire race before valentino makes his race-winning overtake with three laps to go and smashes the previous circuit record on that lap
what remains is one failure after another. an important thing to stress when we talk about a 'curse' is that sete gibernau did not suddenly stop being a frontrunner after qatar 2004. he qualified on pole five times in 2005 (same as valentino, funnily enough - his average grid position was actually better than vale's, 2.82 v 4.12). even so, things go from bad to worse for sete. often valentino does his own dirty work in stopping sete when he's getting a bit too close to that elusive victory, winning a close duel in catalunya, pressuring sete into a mistake at the sachsenring, that kind of thing. often, he does not even have to. sometimes he took himself out, like crashing out of the lead in the wet conditions he was once so very skilled at in estoril (not helping his injured shoulder) or in donington park, where valentino went on to deliver perhaps the finest wet weather performance of his career to take the win
"I don't think anyone can be to blame for crashing out in these conditions, can they. [...] It really is at that stage of the season for Sete Gibernau where it's all or nothing, really just got to try and win races. We're now twelve races since his last victory at Qatar. Valentino Rossi promised after that race that Gibernau would never win another race and well it seems to be coming true so far."
^excerpt from the donington park 2005 commentary, the ninth race of the season, where sete crashed out of the lead in horrendous wet conditions
valentino's favoured way of winning races played into his hands here. pressure, pressure, pressure - preferably exerted from right behind his victim, with the knowledge that valentino is waiting and studying and ready to pounce on any mistake. even if you don't make any, he'll probably get you anyway. the effect of these defeats becomes nicely cumulative, where even the knowledge that valentino will be coming (even if he isn't there yet), that eventually he will try and pass you (even if he hasn't done so yet), is enough to make his opponents self-destruct before he even has to lift a finger. what he does to sete is the most extreme version of how that tactic typically works, by slowly eating away at sete's confidence and composure and self-belief until the eventual error feels increasingly inevitable. valentino knows it is coming, sete knows it is coming, and they both play their parts accordingly
"But Rossi straight after Gibernau, now he'll start those pressure games. Pressure is on Sete Gibernau. He has not won a race for a year; the last race win was here. And the man he doesn't speak to, he doesn't speak back to him either, Valentino Rossi, behind him, and Rossi will start exerting the pressure Rossi-style as we know." [...] "A year ago, wasn't it, it doesn't seem that long ago, doesn't it, that Sete Gibernau was so delighted to win the race here. And Valentino Rossi really left in a strop, didn't he. But there we are, Sete Gibernau - but we've seen it before, and Rossi seems so have this ability to faze him, out at the front, put pressure on him." [...] "Well, Nick, you said at the start of this race that Valentino Rossi has plenty of motivation to win this race here. He wants to take ten wins for Yamaha, it would be the first Yamaha rider ever to do that in the premier class. He wants to end a drought almost in his terms, certainly since he became a Yamaha rider - he's never gone three races without winning a race before, but that could happen today if Gibernau holds this out. And of course the one thing he really wants to stop is Sete Gibernau from winning a race one year on from the day that Rossi said he would never win another one for the rest of his career." "How long does a g-'s curse take, I mean, is it just a year, the g-'s curse and then does it come off? Because if it is then he's just about right, isn't he? [...] Perhaps the curse is gone; perhaps this is just what Sete Gibernau needed."
^excerpts from the qatar 2005 commentary, the fourteenth round of the season. sete looked like he was making a break for it ahead of valentino and then melandri. six laps to go melandri almost causes valentino to crash and costs valentino over a second, but it doesn't matter. this time it's melandri who has the honours of coaxing a mistake out of sete, who goes off into the gravel as melandri passes him. valentino overtakes melandri for the victory
sometimes, he did just seem cursed in the truest sense of the word. his bike running out of fuel on the last lap while he's still fighting valentino for the victory. mechanical dnf's. other riders barging him out of the way before valentino even has the chance to. he switched manufacturers for 2006, getting a spot on the ducati factory team: his last race with honda was ended by an engine failure and his first race with ducati was ended by an electronics failure. a freak boot protector malfunction that left his foot bleeding halfway through the race. a nasty crash in catalunya, followed by his ambulance crashing into a bus fifty metres in front of the hospital entrance. in the end, it was probably the injury caused by casey stoner bringing him down in estoril that pushed him definitively into retiring - after he was dropped by ducati in favour of casey. so it goes
obviously, valentino cannot be held responsible for anything in that last paragraph. you can't mind game your opponent into having their engine blow up, at least I don't think you can. the stuff before that is fair game. what valentino did in jerez essentially stopped the title fight before it could even get started. it was ruthlessly effective in removing sete as a significant player at the top of the sport. sure, it's always hard to attribute a competitive decline such as this one to any single factor. but if ever there was a time to maybe just blame one person...
sete more often than not has kept his silence about the rivalry. in 2005, he generally did not go much further than saying that the whole thing was one-sided and started by valentino, see this (from one of oxley's books):
But don't ask me about him as a person, I'll only speak about him from a professional point of view, that's about it. I don't know why he's got a problem with me because I've never had a problem with him. I've always had a lot of respect for everyone on the grid, I just wish everyone shared that respect, because once you lose respect you lose everything.
on a similar topic, at some point he has also spoken about the qatar controversy again, saying the following:
He blamed me but it was nothing I did. Of course I didn't report him - I didn't even see what happened. I'd had a very good relationship with Valentino for many years but after that it just came around.
in 2009, at the time of sete's ultimately short-lived motogp comeback, he went along with the slight farce of a reconciliation, shaking valentino's hand and talking to him with cameras watching - the season after valentino had regained his crown in '08. but it is fair to say not all is forgotten. at times, he has done his best to draw a line under jerez and continues to refrain from criticising valentino publicly, like this from 2017:
The Catalan avoids criticizing the Italian for any controversial maneuver, such as that of Jerez 2005. "At the time I was living, based on my values, principles and education, I tried to do things as well as I knew how. And I am very proud of what I did ." Sete explains what it means to battle Vale. "We did very nice things fighting against a phenomenon, he may be the best in the history of motorcycling. I am proud to have fought face to face with a guy who is a phenomenon," he explains.
(obviously, you can read this as valentino not following whatever values, principles or education he might have possessed.) at other times, he's been a little more openly critical. in 2020, he still did not criticise valentino as much as he did the response to the overtake, which he felt set a bad precedent and has contributed to the normalisation of a more aggressive style of racing in the years since:
I don't know how many times we've talked about that corner, but the more time goes by the more I understand after that, things change. Many people were seeing that move, and from that moment on it opened the door for it to happen many more times. At the end of the race, both of us did what we thought was best for the championship, and my opinion can be whatever. But since then things have changed in MotoGP and racing is understood, which I don't agree [with].
he also adds this:
When asked if race direction would have looked into that incident had it happened today, Gibernau responded: "To tell you the truth, no. I don't think so. "I've got different thoughts on that side, which are mine, and like I said I don't need to be right or wrong. Everyone has his own thoughts, and if I put myself now in a situation where I was watching a race and I saw what happened there [at Jerez] where two guys risking their own lives touched each other in a difficult last corner, and I was looking at it with my son who would like to become a road racer, and everyone would give the victory to a guy that has touched another one, I wouldn't be wanting that to happen. "I don't want anyone to get hurt. It's one of my priorities and it's how I understand sport and racing. MotoGP is already so dangerous that in my opinion we should all put together our know how to avoid these type of situations. Is it difficult to do? Yes. Is it impossible to do? I don't think so. It's responsibility to whoever is in charge of the championship and to put the rules where we need to stay away from this type of situation because, like I say, we're risking more than just a crash."
and even more recently, in 2023, he's spoken about the jerez race being the source of his disillusionment:
If I'm telling the truth, Jerez 2005 made me lose my enthusiasm for being in the races. I tried to maintain it until the beginning of 2006, with Ducati, and when we could have won, a mechanic left a gear screw unadjusted and the gear lever fell off. That day, in Jerez 2005, I mentally retired. Valentino went inside and took me out. They didn't penalize him. It's my personal opinion, everyone will have their own opinion and it must be respected, but I think that this is not a contact sport.
also in 2023, in a separate interview, he said this:
But he didn't get a punishment or anything, and then I started to lose my faith in the sport. [...] I couldn't understand how, y'know this was not a contact sport, I couldn't understand... things happen in the championship and things had been going on inside and everything and I just lost my - started to lose my illusion in the racing.
which is later in the same interview followed by this (which is partly about his woes in 2006 - he also talked about the moment with the gear screw, but I think pinpoints that rather than jerez as the day he mentally retired):
I had done such a big effort to put myself to a position to where, I was fighting against my own demons, I was fighting against the championship, I thought no one's helping here. I was fighting against one of the top guys in the history of racing, which was Valentino, and I just thought, but, Valentino doesn't even need to do what he's doing to win, and no one is saying nothing. There was many things there and I just couldn't understand... I'm fighting against everything, you know, and I was expecting the championship to just be a little more neutral on that side, just to say, if someone does something wrong you've got to say, in my opinion, it's not a contact sport; it's already dangerous enough to being able to say you can hit someone and say, wow, that was a great move. [...] Everyone is brave on a MotoGP bike. Moto3, Moto2, MotoGP, from the first guy to the last guy, you cannot pinpoint on TV and say how brave this guy was by hitting another guy. Because if I'm a dad watching that I would not want my son to be in a championship like this. Because it's not bravery, it's not about hitting another guy - if you want to do that, go boxing. [...] And from a guy like Valentino, which is, a superstar, why accept that? I think it was wrong, in my opinion, he didn't need to do that. Since then, many things have been happening because of that movement. Because kids saw that and said that's the way to do it. And then Marquez is doing it to this guy, and the other guy is doing it to the other guy, and you get killed in racing. It's already dangerous. We should stay away from that. That's why I never understood - it got to a point where I just - oh man. It's nothing to do with me here any more, you know, and I just left racing and I retired.
for the most part, then, sete is still quite contained in his criticisms of valentino, focusing on the jerez incident and not really delving into what happened the year prior to that. he mainly questions why valentino even felt the need to do what he did to sete, and suggests valentino set a bad example to others - especially kids watching, especially future riders. his criticisms also concern motogp as a sport, those who set the rules and those who regulate them, in not doing anything to stamp down on this kind of racing. he says he felt like he lacked support from the entirety of the sport and eventually decided that he'd had enough
I haven't added this block of text just because I enjoy transcribing large portions of three hour long podcast interviews that didn't really need to be three hours long (apparently the most tried and tested method of getting riders to share their more candid thoughts about anything) - but because this, uh, average-length tumblr post wouldn't really feel complete without it. it's all very well and good to talk about how sete was mentally 'broken' by what valentino did to him. you can have whatever opinion you want about the thoughts sete expresses here on riding standards and acceptable levels of aggression. you can also maybe doubt whether it really was just 'disillusionment' with race direction's approach to valentino's jerez pass that caused his competitive decline - obviously, three hour confessional podcast interview or not, this is a narrative he's still chosen for a reason and it sells himself and his career in a certain way. but - but - especially given the exact circumstances in which his rise to title challenger status occurred and how heavily he involved himself in the safety commission... well, at the very least I'm not going to leave it out. should he have made his complaints publicly known at the time, if this is something he felt so strongly about? is this level of criticism warranted by that specific jerez move? it's tough, because from the modern perspective of course I too have gotten used to a kind of racing where that level of contact is fairly normalised - which two riders this century have played a disproportionate role in bringing about. on the one hand, valentino is right in his defence that relatively speaking, this is far from the fastest or hardest contact out there. on the other hand, it's a move that was made with the knowledge it would result in contact. and in doing so, he injured sete, because that's what can happen even as a result of relatively 'light' touches. make up your own mind! it's not an easy topic to address, and I most certainly wouldn't be able to do it justice here. let's wrap this up
of delusion and despair
valentino has always been intensely aware of the power of narratives and takes care in how he tells his own story. the most literal version in which anyone can tell their own story is, obviously, by publishing an autobiography - which he did in 2005, covering everything up until his first title with yamaha at the end of 2004. it is not presented in chronological order and is instead organised in a far more loose thematic manner, with valentino not feeling any compulsion to give all parts of his life anywhere close to equal attention. still, when you read it, certain omissions do jump out at you - and the exclusion of gibernau is perhaps the most remarkable. you could say it's because he doesn't want to speak ill of his rivals, but he has no problem going into a fair bit of detail about his feud with biaggi. you could say it's because the gibernau rivalry was still going on at time of writing, but the same is more or less true about biaggi who placed third in the 2004 championship. there is not a single paragraph in his autobiography devoted to the relationship with gibernau. every mention of him is just that: a mention. a name thrown in without care when discussing something else entirely. you are told vale passed gibernau to win the 2004 championship - but if you read the autobiography without any other knowledge of valentino, you'd be forgiven for not realising gibernau had been his title rival at all
yes, within the grand context of his career, biaggi does have to be seen as a more significant rival... but this narrative was still being written in late 2004, at a time in which valentino had committed himself to destroying sete. maybe valentino doesn't want to comment on controversies that are still bubbling along, but the sheer extent of the erasure feels far more deliberate than that. this is somebody who had been valentino's friend for years, enough so that they spent time with each other outside of work, went on holidays together, blokes who for all intents and purposes truly liked each other's company. somebody who had been his closest rival for two years, who had pushed him closer than anyone else had in his title runs, who he had experienced some of his greatest career defeats and victories against. according to the narrative presented by the autobiography, he might as well be just any other rider. it's worse than fury, worse than loathing: it's disinterest
(it has to be said, quite possibly the funniest omission is when he's talking about how "angry and disappointed" he was after qatar because of, and I quote, "honda having lodged an appeal". ... anyone else you thought was involved, valentino? .....?)
which is quite the punishment to enact. one reason why this rivalry is so tricky to analyse is, yes, it's one that's quite old by now, but also because we are drawing from a far smaller sample size of valentino comments - almost all of which were provided at the time - when you compare it to any of his other major rivalries. sure, he still talks about jerez 2005, when he's asked about it - though it might as well just have been another fun race, another dramatic victory, another controversial overtake, rather than anything that had any greater significance. (of course, there is also a clip of him forgetting about the race entirely when thinking about last corner overtakes in the premier class with sete in the room - which you can read into if you so choose.) he's talked plenty over the years about his first yamaha title in 2004, but not about the man he beat to secure it. this was his closest title battle of the ones he won (just pipping 2009), but he might as well have won it against a faceless amalgamation of the honda corporation rather than an actual living breathing rival. it's as if that title battle started and ended in welkom, where it was biaggi not gibernau who valentino had to best. even though publicly the two of them set aside their feud in 2009 and valentino even said then that they could be friends again, this feels like lip service more than anything else. in 2015 at jerez, valentino was questioned about the parallels to his relationship with a certain other rival, who was friendly with valentino at the time but had crashed out while battling vale in the previous race. valentino in response acknowledged his past good friendship with sete, but said it was different: after qatar his relationship with sete had gotten worse as a result of how sete had "played a dirty game". if he had not changed his mind about sete's character eleven years after the fact, why would he have reevaluated in the years since?
it is fair to say that gibernau was the least talented of valentino's major rivals, the least substantial figure in terms of his accomplishments in grand prix racing. biaggi is a four time 250cc champion; nobody needs to be reminded of the achievements of stoner, lorenzo or marquez. sete is the rival who wasn't even supposed to exist; he was catapulted into the position essentially overnight by tragedy. and yet, even acknowledging that, it feels like he is under-discussed in the canon of valentino feuds given the sheer quality of their on-track output (let's face it, there are more great vale/sete battles than there are for say vale/casey) and the high drama of their closest title fight. yes, you can say that's because it is one of the older and less well-remembered rivalries, because it is not quite as dramatic and significant as the biaggi feud... but still, it's quite the disparity. given the power valentino holds in writing the stories within the sport, how can you not conclude that he has played a helping hand in this erasure? being ignored is a far greater indignity than being despised - and after 2004 valentino has barely even offered sete the honour of his hatred
Tumblr media
^sete tried to breathe new life into his motogp career by switching to ducati, but his campaign was derailed by injuries. it was probably scant consolation in his miserable 2006 season, but valentino himself was pretty cursed that year. their last on-track battle came at phillip island, in the series' first bike swap race while valentino was fighting tooth and nail to save his doomed title defence. it's admittedly one of like twenty things that happen in that race, but it is quite funny how sete really came back to life just in time to make valentino's life harder when he really didn't need him to. valentino overtook sete on the final corner of the race for the final podium spot
of course, it is a hell of a lot easier to erase a rivalry when you win it so conclusively. in truth, as an opponent, valentino got the measure of sete fairly quickly. he never lost another direct duel against sete after sachsenring 2003, having essentially vowed as much to himself even when they were nominally still on good terms. the 2004 championship was as close as it was because of valentino's unequivocally inferior machinery and the somewhat less consistent results he achieved as a consequence - but even there, when they fought directly for the win in mugello, catalunya, assen and phillip island, each time valentino came out on top. (you can argue about brno '04 - I'd say it doesn't really count since sete ended up running away with the race with a massive tyre advantage.) still, you don't have to be winning all your direct duels with your opponents to be winning the championship - and at the end of the day, sete did come tantalisingly close to a title, or at the very least forcing a title decider. whatever it is that differentiates 'very good riders' from 'champions' is what sete is lacking. he has something in him... a self consciousness, a self awareness even, that is lethal to professional athletes. he was stuck trying to manage the image of his rivalry with valentino, when valentino was moving in for the kill. valentino too is heavily aware of image, is heavily invested in how he tells his own story - but more often than not, he manages to use it as a weapon to spur himself onwards to further success. when valentino did so once again in late 2004, sete stumbled
it is not novel to suggest that valentino needs enemies to motivate himself. plenty of people within the sport have said it, including his fellow riders. that's what's always worth remembering about the 'mind games' - sure, it's great if he unnerves his opponents, but often it is about providing himself with someone to hate though there are exceptions to this, which I have a lot of thoughts about relating to one casey stoner. valentino needs to have a reason to do what he does; it's not enough to win for the sake of winning if there's no story. in 2003, he had more or less won motogp and was finding it harder and harder to motivate himself, admitting repeatedly that he was losing his joy and passion for racing. yes, this was one of the main factors that led to the move to yamaha: to give himself a reason to keep going. but it was also just the right moment for another rival to emerge from nowhere and give valentino somebody new to focus his attentions on. when you read the limited autobiography mentions of sete and his interactions with valentino in 2003, it seems hard not to conclude valentino was already feeling a little less kindly towards sete by the end of that year. the relationship did not survive contact with a true title fight, where valentino found himself pushed closer to the limit than he ever had before. the moment he was in real danger, he blew up the relationship and walked away with literal full points for the remainder of the season. at the very next race to start off the new season, he made sure sete would never be a threat to him again
it's natural to conclude from all of this that the feud was built entirely on the back of valentino's delusions, of valentino inventing a concrete reason to despise sete that was based on his mental list of sete's past transgressions, imagined or otherwise. and maybe it was. did sete really snitch? did valentino really think he did? what was it that convinced valentino of sete's guilt? and even if sete was involved, was this really a proportionate response? this is where a lack of evidence and both parties' reticence to discuss the incident in the years since works against us. but - looking beyond the specifics of what happened in qatar, it does feel likely that the relationship would have deteriorated beyond what we saw in assen anyway. that's what a close title fight tends to do to the people involved. isn't it?
sete makes for a suitable foil to valentino because he too intensely concerns himself with how he is perceived. when vale takes on sete, one pretty boy to another, they are both a little too aware of the artifice of what they are doing, a little too concerned with the optics, the image, the spectacle. rivals, friends, enemies - how far apart are any of those things, really? can we be friends if you desperately covet what I have? if you take pleasure at the thought of my downfall? is this oft-touted ideal of a 'respectful' rivalry inevitably nothing but a facade for the ugly reality that lies beneath? 2004 is what happens when their relationship is actually tested - because now they are finally fighting for something real and they both know it. this is what happens in assen, when valentino decides he needs to win at any cost, when sete realises they are not playing the game by the same rules. sete had been performing graciousness and valentino calls him on his bluff
the best rivalries transform both parties; neither side should be allowed to emerge unchanged from the battle they share. sete entered valentino's life as a competitor at a time when everything was a little too easy and as a result a little too hard for valentino. at a time when valentino felt dissatisfied, underappreciated, judged harshly from all sides and pinned down by the weight of the world's glares. the blows sete inflicted on valentino were primarily symbolic, hurting valentino's pride and reputation rather than his title bid in 2003, which was never under any realistic threat. when valentino was at his lowest that season, he responded by bringing the joy back, reverting to type, with a new haircut and an ironic gag of a celebration and a daring victory to boot. in 2004, however, valentino changed. he had to - he was on a worse bike than his opponents that he was wrestling towards a title it had no right to be winning that year. he didn't have the kind of margin for error any more that he could afford in his honda years, no more foolishness like at the sachsenring. so he became a little tougher and a little meaner and a lot more aggressive in his racing. he shed some of the insouciance that both him and sete have at times been accused of and got down to the serious business of winning. not joylessly - after all there are few things more enjoyable than crushing the enemy. still, it's fine to be a clown prince in your downtime, not when you're barging title rivals aside in assen
it is here, then, at assen, that sete makes a critical, fatal mistake. because sete is torn in two: he wants to be the gracious rival, but he also thinks what valentino did is wrong and wants to communicate as much to the world. maybe it's because it clashes with sete's understanding of racing, maybe it's simply because sete is bitter that he lost - who's to say. except sete can't bring himself to actually say any of this. he chooses the worst possible strategy against valentino: silent disapproval and annoyance and frustration, played up for the television cameras, but without offering a single word of actual complaint until later, when valentino had already offered his explanations and half-apologies. so what valentino takes away from this is twofold. for one, he comes to believe that sete has a problem with his racing and cannot graciously accept his defeat, entirely failing to match valentino's magnanimity on the (rare) occasions when he loses. but unfortunately for sete, what valentino also learns is that - when it comes down to it - sete will not stand up for himself. valentino knows he can do this again
in sepang sete attempts to take the high ground once more, to allow valentino his transgressions and foibles and temper, to be calm in the face of vale's fury, to be the better man. in australia sete pulls himself together to shake hands with valentino, to be respectful of his rival's accomplishments and graceful in defeat, to be the better man. in jerez sete is beyond angry, furious enough to actually approach valentino in parc fermé and say a few words to him, but he still shakes valentino's hand on the podium and refuses to complain directly about him in the press conference - because he is determined to be the better man. does he think he can shame valentino into being different from what he is? if so, it is an unfortunate miscalculation. you cannot claim a moral victory against somebody who does not give a shit
for valentino, at least half the joy of racing has always been about beating the opposition. a new rival is presented to him out of nowhere - and out of him valentino fashions himself an enemy. sete was one of the first people to offer valentino advice when vale entered the premier class, but this was not the last thing valentino learned from him. because what valentino did to gibernau was different than what he did to biaggi. this was not just trying to get a rise out of a bloke he disliked every time he got half a chance. this was not valentino slowly chipping away at his victim's patience and self-control and sanity. what valentino does to gibernau is far more sudden and far more targeted and gets a far more immediate effect. he emerges from qatar weakened and on the back foot and within eight days flips the situation so that he is once again the one in command. sete, who had very much exerted himself in presenting the relationship in a certain way to the world, who wanted so badly for this to be a certain kind of rivalry, ever so respectful - well, valentino found out just where to hurt him. he did it with his sudden public coldness towards sete, with carefully chosen remarks to the press to make clear that nothing had been forgiven, with the jibes and the taunts at each and every stage of his victory. he married the off-track theatre with on-track strategy as well as pure performance, directly disrupting and disturbing sete whenever necessary - the kind of combination he would later find so useful in fending off first casey then lorenzo. it's no coincidence that his three most famous career overtakes are ones that are also so significant in how they affected valentino's fortunes in the aftermath of his victory. laguna 2008 and catalunya 2009 represent complete shifts in momentum within their respective seasons that his rivals never quite recovered from. jerez 2005 ends the title battle at the very first race. and it's not just sete's season that didn't recover - it's his career
of course, it's easier to mess with someone when you have the measure of them in performance. that's always something to keep in mind when talking about mental resilience: it's easier to bounce back from your rival being an asshole to you if you're just really, really good at what you do. valentino always understood himself that any 'mind games' had to be backed up by on-track performance; he's openly stated that all of his off-track "work" on his opponents only gets results if it's paired with being strong on the bike. and he himself lost his cool in qatar - but it helped that he knew he had what it took to bounce back. this was never a rivalry of equals; there was never any question between the two of them who the better rider was. all that being said: it's a really good rivalry! guys, there's some really great races. sete was a serious challenger and he did pose a serious threat to valentino, which you can tell because otherwise valentino never would have needed to do any of this. he made valentino grow as a rider and... do you make someone 'grow as a person' if you make them better at psychological warfare? yes, I think so. actually
valentino became a more accomplished rider for having experienced the sachsenring debacle, and he became a more accomplished rider as a result of the qatar fiasco. he motivated himself to become better because he wanted to defeat sete so badly, and isn't there something compelling about that? valentino was willing to take risks at phillip island that could have resulted in a title decider, was willing to make himself extremely unpopular with the spanish crowd at jerez (not something he has typically had much experience with) - all because he needed to crush sete, to destroy him so completely he could erase him entirely. at the end of the day, there's a bunch of reasons why this rivalry doesn't get the attention it deserve. one of them, however, is that valentino seems to be pretty happy with this state of affairs, and has spent the better part of two decades deeply disinterested in paying sete his dues. don't let him have his way
84 notes · View notes
xiaoshengnu · 1 year ago
Text
𝕰𝖒𝖕𝖗𝖊𝖘𝖘𝖊𝖘 𝖎𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝕻𝖆𝖑𝖆𝖈𝖊 - final review
overview : episode no - 76 episodes, genre - historical (gongdou)
a timeless classic, the slay to end all slays (and I mean literally and figuratively) empresses in the palace follows the story of zhen huan as she experiences life in the palace, hardening her from a sweet young girl to a stony empress dowager. 
Tumblr media
l⃣e⃣ t⃣’ s⃣    b⃣e⃣g⃣i⃣n⃣
when I say you will never find a more iconic show ever in the whole of cdramaland, I mean never. empresses in the palace is an absolute juggernaut of a drama, it is absolutely insane, the writing, the drama, the characters, the absolute minute little details and its respect of the viewer’s intelligence- an A* and beyond. and it's internet and cultural presence in china? IN. SANE. 
o⃣u⃣t⃣     o⃣ f⃣     t⃣ e⃣ n⃣
𝖕𝖑𝖔𝖙 - 9/10
𝖆𝖈𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖌 - 10/10
𝖈𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖆𝖈𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖘 - 10/10
𝖕𝖗𝖔𝖉𝖚𝖈𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓 - 10/10
𝕠𝕧𝕖𝕣𝕒𝕝𝕝 𝕒𝕧𝕖𝕣𝕒𝕘𝕖 - 9.8
o⃣u⃣t⃣    o⃣ f⃣    f⃣ i⃣v⃣ e⃣
𝖍𝖎𝖉𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝖌𝖊𝖒 𝖛𝖆𝖑𝖚𝖊 - 💎💎💎💎💎
[ I know that when the drama first came out, it was considered pretty unique for how brutally it presented harem life, but even years later and amongst so many newer dramas which have borrowed tropes and ideas from it, I don’t think you’ll be able to find such an incredibly solid drama. a five gem.  ]
𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖆𝖙𝖈𝖍 𝖛𝖆𝖑𝖚𝖊 - ✨✨✨✨✨
[ it is so incredibly long and a pretty emotionally tolling drama - even longer than legend of haolan but it is just incredible, a full five star rewatch value ]
‘keep reading’ for detailed review
oh my god this drama.
oh my god.
where do I even begin? I remember watching my parents watch this drama when was I was still really young so I didn’t know what the show was called and what it was about, and although I didn’t remember the whole of this drama I could still remember some hazy snapshots pretty iconic scenes- like at the end where she does to sleep, or when she gets sent to the island- so when I finally decided to watch empresses in the palace a light bulb went off and I suddenly realised that THIS was the show that I'd remembered from my childhood. THIS was it. so it is quite nostalgic for me. 
it is honestly such a timeless classic, there’s nothing that will ever beat it. nothing. every fucking second of this thing has a purpose, and everything the characters say and do- and even the background of scenes have minute details which relate to the overall plot and trajectory of these characters. like the amount of YouTube videos analysing this one drama is insane. when critics praise a piece of visual art as a “living breathing organism”, “a masterpiece”- they mean this. 
𝖕𝖑𝖔𝖙 - 9
just. amazing. what can I say. there’s absolutely nothing that can beat this drama with how it wrote the plotting, the intrigue and the absolute cunning the women had to possess to stay alive in the palace. the ending of the drama is literally perfect. SO perfect. younger me thought legend of haolan was good- but compared to this? this is really truly another level. there’s so many instances in the drama where the drama never really tells you what exactly happened, but at the same time gives you just enough information to just guess what had gone on. equally, there are some times where there really doesn’t appear to be any scheming but with close analysis (and with the help of trusty youtubers) suddenly things become thrown into light. 
however, I had to knock down a few points because every plot has flaws and for this drama, I think it was mostly the use of tropes and the ‘female lead syndrome’ that sometimes quite clearly shows in the drama. There are also some areas in the drama where the plot does get shaky, but there is never not a reason why a scene is included in the drama. its just such a watertight drama. if you ever need to learn the art of show but don’t tell, this drama has it all. I love that sometimes it leaves it up to the viewer to work the plot out, which mirrors the way in which the concubines had to guess and predict in order to survive- which wasn’t always for certain or always accurate, almost literally pulling the viewer into the world of harem life.
𝖈𝖍𝖆𝖗𝖆𝖈𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖘 - 10
I LOVE THE CHARACTERS UGH. I love them. they’re slays to end all slays. from zhen huan (the original girl boss, gatekeep, gaslight- FIGHT ME) to su peisheng- honestly so iconic. every single major character was well written, well developed and multi-dimensional, and no-one was evil purely for the sake of earning the drama cash. everyone in the drama gives you a reason to root for them, I found myself even feeling for the emperor in the end. 
𝖕𝖗𝖔𝖉𝖚𝖈𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓 - 10
the production was beautiful- the lighting, costuming and makeup were literally so perfect it's unreal. so many iconic scenes came out of this drama- like the yimeiyuan (plum blossom garden) scene with it's beautiful moonlit set and plum blossom decked in snow.
 I love the designated colour palettes of the various concubines everything seemed very thought out to fit their personalities. consort hua was decked in bold colours and extravagant patterns, consort jing being calm and gentle was consistently dressed in soft blues and greens, while shen meizhuang is seen wearing mostly purples and pinks. one particular costume that lives in my mind rent free is zhen huan’s blue outfit with the white plum blossom embroidery in the episode 28- absolutely stunning.
𝖆𝖈𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖌 - 10
honestly, if you took a shot for every time I've described this drama as perfect, you would definitely be on the floor by this point. The acting was absolutely now flawless. at no point in the drama did I ever feel drawn out of the story by the acting- sun li is jaw-dropping as zhen huan, her duality is absolutely insane and her crying scenes- ugh omg so good. 
.
.
𝖇𝖔𝖓𝖚𝖘!!
favourite character(s) :
zhen huan ( if your favourite character in this drama isn’t zhen huan, what are you doing???? she is an absolute icon in her own right. it’s literally impossible to not root for such a wonderful character- team zhen huan all the way )
consort hua / nian shilan ( ik ik, ik now she’s evil and everything, but I love her- she has a baseline which she will not cross and she does have a loyal heart. she loves the emperor almost unconditionally and while she would kill a concubine, she would never harm an unborn child. she seems to care for her servants, who are loyal in turn and I would argue that her being willing to employ a crippled eunuch is a sign of her more softer and caring side. and do I need even mention her snarky one liners?? slay. anyway that’s my essay in defence of consort hua )
ye lanyi ( a queen fr, she takes no-one’s shit )
.
𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜 (source mydramalist)
lead actors : sun li, chen jianbin, cha silfun
director : zheng xiaolong 
screenwriter : wu xuelan
137 notes · View notes
see-arcane · 2 years ago
Note
i'd love to hear your thoughts on or analysis of the "weird sisters"/wives/brides
Bride 1:
The first victim taken to keep Dracula company. I imagine Dracula being in something of a more maddened/not-quite-whole state following his turn to vampirism paired with his time in [SPOILERS]. Maybe closer to Nosferatu's stilted mindset when it came to behaving like a man. That, coupled with an unknown amount of time pacing alone in his dead castle, only finding contact in screaming meals and fleeing chattel, likely prompted him to go seeking permanent company.
I picture the girl he chose as one with a habit of inspiring laughter. Perhaps a jovial eldest sister who cheered her sisters, her family, her friends and suitors. He's always loved stealing away what others might love. So he picked her and stole her and she spent her final months of humanity trying desperately to amuse and cajole him into not doing the inevitable.
Bride 2:
Centuries pass. Dracula wants a new flavor. He takes it in the form of one of his own men's girls. A wife? A sister? A daughter? It doesn't matter. What matters is she has known of Dracula all her life. Known what it is the people she loves, she shares blood with, do for this thing pretending to be a man. It's a deal with the devil. She knows that too. To disobey is to bring death and worse.
Dracula takes the girl the way all predators take caregivers who forget the former are not now or ever tamed to safety. Worse, perhaps it is her own kin who offer her up or turn blind eyes. It's for the good of the whole, dear, you understand. Her last hours are spent at a familiar window, alternately calling for and cursing those she'd loved.
Bride 3:
A newcomer. Perhaps a last straggling escapee of witch hunt fever, seeking with distance and a final pocketful of funds a safety from the pointing fingers of monstrous men. She doesn't know of any demons in the mountains and wouldn't care if she did. Men have proven to be greater monsters than any local legend. She even takes a home, startlingly cheap, near the edge of Borgo Pass despite all warnings.
She meets her one and only neighbor there. He is a magician of sorts, he tells her from the other side of the dilapidated fence--he would not set foot on her land without invitation, young lady! In truth, he is far more a witch than any poor powerless soul deemed unholy enough to slaughter. Such barbaric times, these. It is a comfort to see one such as her rightly escape such cruelty...
Perhaps he cajoles her into inviting him in. Perhaps he beckons her up to the castle, the caleche driving her on. Perhaps it doesn't matter either way. She is the last Bride for a long while. In time, she blends into the cadre of the others, these Weird Sisters, these bloodstained cats he keeps even as they scratch and laugh at as much as with him, because he cannot stand to be a tyrant alone with only himself to menace.
They are his. He can never part with what's his, even when it so rarely brings him joy. But time passes and the joy fades and if he is not a mad monster now, he is a steadily more sullen one when not faced with company to perform for. He is Master. He is the Devil. He is the owner of all that lives and dies in his land, his castle.
And yet he lets the castle rot. Lets himself wilt. He goes without succor even as he fetches meals for his 'loves.'
(He too can love. So he calls it, so it must be.)
They are no longer here for his pleasure, but to give him an excuse not to bite at himself like a rabid old wolf tearing at himself in confinement. England will be a respite. The start of something new. Conquest! New blood! New thralls! New subjects and victims! He will return to himself and his rightful mode with that renewal.
Groom:
And with the preparation comes a delightful surprise. If the Brides are his ungrateful cats, Jonathan Harker is a charming young pup. Primed to be groomed into a new addition.
Just the right word, that.
Groomed.
And is it not fitting that his first Groom is the one to bring him so much joy? So much vigor and play and giddy prelude to supple England? Yes, yes. This one has made him happiest of them all. Thank you, my good friend. I cannot wait to see more of you.
158 notes · View notes
carnelianwings · 11 months ago
Text
Since I'm not sure if I'll ever get the chance to properly touch on this in a fic because it's more character analysis than something I can properly include in dialogue/exposition without it being very awkwardly out of place and telling not showing, I figured I'd just dump it here. It's something I think about a lot whenever I write for post-Seed Destiny Athrun in a fic, because in so many ways, this is actually something of a non-magical "Ideal (Fake) Reality" situation that Durandal very nearly succeeded in pulling off, but ultimately failed at because Durandal overplayed his hand and underestimated Athrun's loyalty to his friends Kira, who was pulling triple duty opposing Athrun because Kira himself didn't agree with what Athrun was doing, protecting Cagalli, and supporting Cagalli at a time when she was powerless.
It's a trope I very much love in magical/sci-fi settings because it says a lot about the character and the lengths they'll go to get what they want (the willingness and determination to take the longer, harder path to make the dream reality vs the instant gratification option even if it's fake), and also just gives me so much to work with when I write when it comes to character motivation/dialogue/actions.
I feel like a lot of this gets missed in all the memes that he's (somewhat deservedly) suddenly a part of after Seed Freedom, because while Seed Freedom Athrun is very self-assured and confident in his course of action, he definitely took a long hard road (with more downs than ups, in my opinion) between Seed and Seed Destiny to get there.
(Rest behind the cut because there's a reason Athrun Zala is my favorite Seed character, and not just because he's got a lovely voice - thank you Ishida-san for that - and is easy on the eyes.)
When Athrun re-enlists in ZAFT and "continues" his life again as himself, he's given a choice thanks to Durandal's string-pulling: Resume the life that was planned for him by his parents and PLANT (his "destined" life, if you will), or find his way back to the life that he's chosen for himself (with Cagalli and Orb).
If he chose his "old" life, he would've had it all - the glory of being a decorated war veteran, a post as a FAITH member (resuming the role he'd previously gotten thanks to his father), a "Lacus Clyne" for his fiance, and the honor of being the pilot of the Legend (while being something of a "legend" himself). Durandal saw to it Athrun would've seamlessly resumed that life to all external appearances, even if it would've been an absolute sham behind closed doors. Athrun might be a decorated war veteran, but that came with a lot of trauma and grief - trauma from having to fight and kill at such a young age, grief at being the one to survive when those he'd called friends die around him, plus all the unresolved emotional turmoil and grief of having never been able to properly resolve things with his father and his genocidal ideals (because Patrick Zala, too, was a man who never got over his grief at losing Lenore during the Bloody Valentine Incident, and only became the way he did because of that). He might've had a highly coveted position within FAITH, but that power would ultimately be in service to Durandal (a head of state Athrun alternates between wanting to agree with and being directly at odds against). Durandal needed more capable "Yes men" ace pilots like Shinn Asuka to spread and enforce his plans, not people capable of thinking for themselves like Athrun (at least, Athrun got there after Operation Angel Down). The "Lacus Clyne", is, of course, Meer under the best cosmetic surgery money could buy, but she is nothing like Lacus Athrun knows and cares for as a friend and whose cause he had once lent his power to (and would again at the end of the Second War).
And the Legend? It might fit Athrun in name only (in the sense that he's the "legendary pilot who helped end the first Earth-PLANT War) but the entire suit (even if it had an updated OS for the DRAGOON system) doesn't even play to Athrun's core strengths as a pilot. It's almost comedic how Durandal didn't even bother tailoring the Legend to Athrun - the Saviour is more Athrun's style both as a spiritual successor to the Aegis and weapons load out, yet it's coincidental that it would end up in Athrun's hands. There's no way Durandal could've known and planned for the Saviour to go to Athrun, but Durandal arguably had that time with the Legend. In the episode where both the Destiny and Legend are revealed, Durandal made a point of telling Shinn the Destiny was fine tuned to him, but neglects to tell Athrun much about the Legend beyond the DRAGOON system and the updated OS for it (the closest Athrun arguably ever came to a DRAGOON system was flying right past Kira and Rau's duel in front of Genesis at the end of Seed).
On the flip side of that, there's the life Athrun had chosen for himself after the first Earth-PLANT War. It's not an ideal life, not by any means - the fact he's essentially a powerless civilian with no means to reach for his ultimate goal chafes him to no end, especially when there's the ever-looming threat of Cagalli getting taken away from him due to circumstances neither of them want nor are able to deal with. Cagalli can't get out of the arranged marriage, Athrun as "Alex Dino" has no claim to power and as "Athrun Zala" would only invite larger scale international problems - even if Athrun himself has no political ties to PLANT, his family name says plenty. Athrun is patient, yes, but even his patience has a limit, and seemingly losing Cagalli to someone he doesn't respect and she doesn't love (in a reversal of Athrun's situation with Lacus and Kira) pushes him to action out of desperation. And while it puts him at odds with Kira and Cagalli (including lashing out at both of them when Cagalli finally breaks down and gives in and gets coerced into going through with the arranged marriage), it does also get him to realize that he's not the same person he was before the war - he's no longer capable of living that same life he had before, where he would fight where his country tells him because that's the fastest way to end the war. The easy (destined, if you will) option is no longer an acceptable choice for him, because it's not the one that ultimately leaves him fulfilled and truly happy with the one he loves in the end.
And it's this that ultimately brings him back to Cagalli and the (Infinite) Justice, metaphorically reclaiming his sense of justice (ha ha). He's always going to be looking for a cause to serve, and a just cause by his own terms, because he's dedicated far too much of his life serving in the military to just stop doing that and he's spent too much time around Lacus to just mindlessly follow whatever the higher ups say, anymore. So this leaves the only way forward: serve under a head of state whose ideals he can agree with, with the freedom of choice to act according to his own sense of justice, and to that end, there's only one choice for him - return to Orb and Cagalli.
22 notes · View notes
shearlin · 3 months ago
Text
Chapter 4: 4. (Alt) In another life [Fi]
Word count: 1368
First || << Previous || Next >>
----------
Day 4 is here! What do you mean it's the 5th? Irrelevant!
This time starring Fi! This chapter is sort of a teaser of a fic I want to write - the Legend of Zelda from Fi's perspective, especially focusing on her relationship with Time. I think it could be fun, but it's currently in the brainstorming stage.
The flavour of today's whump is grief and existential crisis. Enjoy <3
----------
Her Master was dead.
She failed him. She failed to protect him, failed to guide him and now he’s dead.
She barely made sense of him appearing again.
None of this made sense. Her task was complete, she fulfilled it centuries ago. She was supposed to sleep. Fade. And yet…
This young boy came to her, brushed her handle with too small hands and her security protocols did not prevent him. He managed to raise her up. No one should be able to achieve it but the one she was soulbound to. Link died a long time ago. How was this possible?
Her systems stirred, more active than they’ve been in hundreds of years. If something was able to breach her safety protocols it required her immediate attention. She couldn’t override her current directive completely, but she could create a temporary exemption based on her concerns.
Then her analysis showed something extraordinary. Link was alive. His Spirit was reborn. She knew the implications of course. It meant Her Grace needed another Hero, it meant that his past success wasn’t as definitive as they’d hoped.
But a small part of her, the one that developed as she reviewed hundreds of hours of the data collected by Link’s side, was happy. Her Master returned. He was in many ways different. He was a juvenile, different in behaviour, beliefs, personality, background, facial features, various interests, skill, experience, demographic background, dreams and many many more… But his courage was the same. The spirit she grew alongside of was the same and it was still growing, and she felt… excited. To have a chance to grow alongside him again.
It was a new experience. And she knew she was not able to properly express it or process it in the limited awakeness she was confined to. But for the first time since she fell asleep… she had dreams. And they were happy.
But her new master was too young. She knew it. Her blade was longer than he was tall, the weight of the responsibility he took over when he drew her too big for his tiny shoulders. And the spirit maiden of those times… She was young too. Powerful. But too young.
They’d made so many mistakes.
Read the rest on Ao3!
6 notes · View notes
slashthrashandcrash · 8 months ago
Note
question! 🤓☝️ about danny and ramona!
let's say Ghostface never got taken by the fog...what would happen between him and ramona? would she ever find out his secret, maybe by accident? would he be around to watch her grow up?
Hmmmmmm...
Well first I think it depends on what happens to Danny in general. If he's caught one way or another, it kind of throws a wrench in the whole plan, because I don't see him going down without a fight. He will live and die in infamy before they can ever throw him in a cell and try to kill him on their terms.
My belief is that by the time he's in his 40s, roughly ten or so years later, is when he would fully retire Ghostface, provided he hasn't been caught at this point. Age is gonna start catching up with him physically and crime solving technologies are getting more and more advanced which creates a bigger risk, not to mention better surveillance and the rise of the internet. By this point, Ghostface would have been stalking the country for nearly two decades -- he's well cemented his place as a deadly legend and his fame will only grow the longer his crimes go unsolved a la Zodiac Killer and Mr. Cruel. Give it another couple years and there will be a massive resurgence in his popularity when true crime shows/podcast/documentaries/movie recreations become all the rage.
So when it comes to adding Ramona in the mix, his retirement would be right when she's about to head off to college, but I think he would become a more permanent part of her life sometime that she's in high school. The older she gets, the more she's going to understand and be upset by his absence and it's going to be harder for him to keep her 10000% fully on his side as daddy's little girl. He needs to show that he's finally willing to put his "job" aside to be there for her as an actual dad. And surprisingly he does, slowly winding down his Ghostface sprees so that he's home more frequently before they stop altogether.
But it's not being done out of the kindness of his heart, obviously. Like I said, age is creeping into his bones (more than usual lmao), trace DNA analysis is getting better, Ramona is at risk of pulling away from him (which links back to how much DNA profiling is improving given that she'd be a 50% match in a system). He's had a good run, he's willing to quit while he's still ahead...for the most part.
Which means it's time to start groveling and sweet talking his baby mama into proving he's a changed man. He's finally matured, he wants to be a provider for his baby girl while he has the chance, he knows he's been stupid but that's why he's just so grateful for his wonderful ex for all the hard work she's done. It takes a long, long time for her to stop telling Danny to fuck off with his bullshit but...eventually, he does wear her down with the point it only has to be a marriage of convenience on a piece of paper. It's not for him, it's for Ramona, and being a (mostly) single mother for like 14 years by now has to have taken its toll. She can't deny having dual incomes and another parent helping out full time wouldn't ease a lot of her burdens...
They're definitely not in love, it's more like a coparenting roommates situation, but it's good enough for them. They've always had a dysfunctional relationship anyways. So, Danny gets hitched, gets a regular 9-5 job working his way up the ranks of the investigative journalism, and watches his little girl finish out high school and go off to college. And maybe he casually thinks of ways his pseudo-wife could get into some kind of fatal accident. And maybe a few of his business trips were for pleasure rather than work. And maybe he still keeps his mementos and memorabilia stowed away to look upon fondly when the girls are away. Y'know, old habits die hard.
One thing that I think would be so funny however is that if Ramona went off to college in 2003, maybe out of state on a scholarship and Danny went with her to help her move into her new dorm/apartment, while he's scoping out the area he ends up running into some punk former druggie named Amanda...
10 notes · View notes
thefallenangelsgang · 1 year ago
Text
The Avantris Fam Discord got this a few days early, but, in a burst of academic energy I haven't felt in weeks, I wrote a 2k word Literary Analysis on Marius from Edge of Midnight in 4 hours (complete with citations and sources)
What you are about to read is the culmination of an 18 day hyper fixation (I averaged more than a session* a day) (*each session being about 3 hours in length). It has only been slightly edited for better Tumblr consumption. It is legitimately almost 2k words. It starts VERY academic (as I get to flex my knowledge on an obscure Arthurian legend I love) and then immediately drops off in quality as I traverse some "dubious psycho-analysis" (my own words) and try to wrap up a half finished thoughts that should be thousands of words longer.
If you want to see my active descent into madness or the original google doc this was written in, join the discord (linked above!). I've got massive Legends of Avantris Brain Rot and will for a very long time I fear.
TW for Sexual Assault Themes (please tell me if my tw tags are not extensive enough)
CW for my insufferable academic attitude, literary analysis where no one wanted it, "dubious psycho-analysis", half finished thoughts, DnD, vampires, and my sailors mouth
Marius: An Analysis on Chivalry and Chastity
Break to save your dash
To get the literary shit out of the way, Marius’s seduction is a parallel of the Arthurian Legend “Sir Gawain and the Green Knight” intentionally or not. I have a sneaking suspicion perhaps The Duchess scene is also based on the “Tale of Sir Galahad” bit in Monty Python and the Holy Grail BUT that bit draws inspiration from Gawain’s story. So no matter which way you cut it, Marius is connected to Gawain to SOME degree.
Attempting to be brief, I’ll sum up Gawain as briefly as I, someone who loves this tale a ridiculous amount, can.
Gawain is King Arthur’s nephew, a knight of the round table, young, chivalrous, pious, but itching to prove himself. He loves the aging Arthur and Arthur loves him like a son but he feels restless in his station because he has not gone on a great quest like many of the other knights. 
Serendipitously, during the New Years celebrations a strange man enters Arthur’s great hall. He is green and carries a great axe in one hand and a bough of holly in his other. He challenges anyone in the room to hit him with the axe and he will return the blow in a year and a day. No one takes the man up on the challenge. Arthur is about to do it when Gawain takes his chance to prove himself. Thinking he can outsmart the Green Knight, Gawain cleaves the man’s head from his shoulders. Unexpectedly the Green Knight picks up his detached head, leaves the axe for Gawain as a trophy, and strides out of there with the reminder that he will return the blow in a year and a day. Gawain has effectively doomed himself.
Attempting to put off his fate, Gawain waits to seek the Green Knight until All Saints Day (November 1st). He is sent forth with all of the pomp and circumstance a Knight of the Round Table and favorite of King Arthur can get. He spends nearly two months seeking someone who knows of the Green Chapel where the Green Knight resides and is fruitless. Winter sets in and he begins to suffer exposure when he is greeted by a beautiful castle that seemingly appears out of nowhere. He meets the Lord of the Castle and the Lord's beautiful wife. In the spirit of Christmas the Lord challenges Gawain to a game. The Lord will be hunting the next three days, anything he catches is to be Gawain’s. In return Gawain is to give the Lord anything he receives during his stay.
Well what Gawain receives is a lot of unwanted attention from the Lord’s wife. She attempts to seduce the ever pious Knight. Gawain, minding his promise and his tenets, only allows her six kisses over the course of the three days. All of which he returns to the Lord. But seeing as she can’t sway him with the sins of the flesh, she tempts Gawain with magic. The same day she convinces Gawain to receive three kisses she offers him an enchanted sash that will keep him from harm. Gawain accepts this knowing it will save his life in the coming days. He breaks his promise to the Lord and does not divulge this gift.
Gawain keeps his appointment with the Green Knight who admonishes Gawain when he flinches at the first swing, holds back on his second, and finally drives home the third, only wounding Gawain slightly. Gawain now must confess his temptation to the Green Knight who tells him that it is not Gawain’s fault. This has all been a plan by Morgan le Fay to attempt to ruin Arthur. Gawain only fell to part of her plan and so it has been thwarted. He should learn from this stumble on his path. And learn he does.
Monty Python takes this tale and guts it for “the Tale of Sir Galahad” segment. Galahad is instead searching for the Grail when he stumbles upon a mystical castle with a grail shaped beacon. His temptress(es) are the “8 scores” of young women of Castle Anthrax. He too enters the castle sick from exposure and wounded and thwarts unwanted advances until he learns that the grail is not there. Before he can fall to his temptation Lancelot, Ector, and ironically Gawain rescue him from his “peril” judging it to be “too perilous” for him to face. (It is really important to note that the actual Sir Galahad in Arthurian Legend doesn’t have a story that even resembles this one. Galahad is supposed to be an emulation of good ol’ Jesus Christ and the perfect chivalric Knight. He literally ascends to heaven in his tale. The only reason Gawain’s Tale is used is because it is the perfect setting to test “Sir Galahad the Pure” as long as you fudge a few details.)
These are both humorous stories with happy endings. It is important that Marius’s story is not.
Marius is searching for the Grail much like Sir Galahad in Monty Python and the Holy Grail (a parallel Mikey brings up often by singing “Brave, Brave, Brave, Brave Sir Robin Marius”). 
Like both Gawain and Galahad his quest leads him on a lengthy adventure that causes him to suffer from exposure to the elements. A fate he is saved from by a mystical castle that appears out of nowhere. 
Much like Gawain and Galahad, this Castle is the home of a seductress. 
And all too much like Sir Gawain, the Lord of this Castle is away on a hunting expedition. 
But here is where Sir Gawain, Sir Galahad, and Sir Marius’s stories diverge. Because Marius’s story partially is a story of sexual assault. 
We see in the ritual that Marius’s “head is filled with exhaustion, wine, and a strange perfume that feels almost magical in its enchantment” (Nikkie’s narration, 2:32:00, Chapter 17). There’s literally no other way to say this, Marius cannot consent to the acts about to take place in The Red Duchess’s bedchamber. He is too sick, too drunk, and, on top of it, literally charmed. 
His affliction is also another facet of this assault. While his transformation is not a direct result or part of the sex act, it follows quickly on the heels of it. Nikkie even notes Marius is still naked and that the shame of what has just happened is beginning to bubble up.
(Now this is where I get into the dubious psycho-analysis)
Perhaps attempting to swallow that shame, he accepts the Faux Grail and drinks from it, not questioning the appearance of the so-called Grail of Dawn. If he can just get through this night he can bring it back to Victor and all will be righted. He can live with the shame if it saves his kingdom. 
But that isn’t the Grail of Dawn he is drinking from and the woman who has just taken something irreplaceable from him is not just a beautiful woman looking for the comforts of the flesh on a cold, lonely winter’s night. And he is going through something so much more horrible than being assaulted like he has been.
And so he ends up back in the cold, irrevocably changed through no fault of his own, and he hates himself for it.
It’s heartbreakingly common that Sexual Assault survivors blame themselves for being assaulted. Marius’s conviction that he was at fault, that if only he was stronger, smarter, less feeble, he could have found a way to say no. He could have escaped her clutches. He wouldn’t be a Dhampir. He wouldn’t be haunted by her noxious perfume. He would still have his clear connection to Lathander. 
None of it is really his fault. The Duchess took advantage of him. There was truly nothing he could have done to change his fate that night.
At this point I am trying to articulate some of the things @middycat_ @zer09851 and @purpledinosaurdnd were talking about here https://discord.com/channels/223485292449890305/892828741900849182/1182483200505815153 
I think I want to jump into my High Inquisitor thoughts because they tie so closely with the novel I wrote above. This section is admittedly a little more scatterbrained. 
The High Inquisitor is a perfect example of both Marius’s self loathing and the way abusers seemingly can sniff out who has been abused before. From the second we meet her she singles Marius out. While yes, Marius is the most “normal” out of the EoM cast, Jericho is a MUCH easier target. He is touch starved and his sin is literally Envy. Jericho would have bent immediately at the first hints of affection and then she has an actual demon under her control. But Marius, though a tougher catch, is a much tastier meal so to say. (Not in that way you freaks /j) 
By answering to the High Inquisitor’s beckoning is how we end up with Marius as the Crimson Abbot. His self hatred would make him spiral and he’d turn to his Wrath to compensate. We’ve seen it before, especially recently when he thinks Lathander has abandoned him. He gives in because it's so much easier. She wants me? Fine. Let her have me in all of my broken glory. I’m too wrong to serve Lathander. Etc etc. 
Man, I wish I could string these thoughts together better.
AHA! This was the thought I had that I felt needed more context! 
@middycat_ brought up “hoping beyond hope that it’s not lathander’s choice to leave him”
I think the severed connection between him and Lathander is both a subconscious self-sabotage and a direct result of the ritual binding him to The Red Duchess. 
Most of the binding rituals I was pretty comfortable with. Lethica, Briggsy, Farryn, and somewhat Yorgrim were simply binding themselves to their gods/patrons. (I’m still not entirely sure what the Maiden of the Mists' whole deal is about but she seems mostly benevolent for now. Mr Crossroads didn’t really make Briggsy that way, he kinda was a bastard from the start. The zombification was a result of “fuck around and find out”). The ones I felt least comfortable with and that are reaping the most consequences are Jericho and Marius. Jericho’s character analysis is another similarly sized tome that will have to wait but he is having a harder and harder time keeping Virgil in check. Marius has bound himself to the woman that literally raped him. 
No wonder Lathander has found it hard to commune with him, The Duchess is practically breathing down his neck, whispering in his ear that he is not worthy of Lathander. He has been debased, ruined, made unloveable in the eyes of that god. And at least up until Chapter 22 he has been pushing back against that. Not any longer. He’s given in. As @middycat_ said “he’s a tired old man, a jaded old soldier who should have long since given up this fight to someone else.” 
I am afraid we are about to see the beginnings of the Crimson Abbot
And the only thing that can save Marius are his friends.
But I am also afraid they may not learn their lessons in time. Many of them tried to encourage him to fuck or made fun of him for not fucking the High Inquisitor when he was clearly triggered by something. 
Jericho will have to quash his envy. 
Briggsy and Farryn will have to admit they were wrong.
Lethica and Yorgrim will have to speak up.
Inaction hurts as much as action
And Marius needs all the help he can get.
[If you stuck this out A) you deserve awards and B) check out my other 2k word research essay on a niche topic: Why Ghouls Look Different Across the Fallout Games (Not because of Stylistic Differences) ]
This is fucking insane but here are the sources i used
Sir Gawain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Gawain_and_the_Green_Knight https://www.yorku.ca/inpar/sggk_neilson.pdf (Translation PDF if you want to read the tale)
Sir Galahad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galahad (for the one time i reference his actual arthurian legend)
Monty Python (I really can’t believe I cited this)
https://montycasinos.com/montypython/grailmm2.php.html (This is a script I was quoting from) https://montypython.fandom.com/wiki/Sir_Galahad (I was looking for other info on him in the movie but ended pulling the list of knights from this)
Pretty basic article on why victims blame themselves
https://www.throughthewoodstherapy.com/sexual-assault-survivors-blame/ (In case you want to do some light reading)
EoM Episodes
17 + 22 Definitely Anytime the High Inquisitor shows up
40 notes · View notes
true--north · 10 months ago
Note
tbh, i love reading your tags, do you mind a short analysis on "kristoff and hans had their own responses to these issues" [frozen heart]? 🙏 idk, i feel like you'll have smth important to say here, there's not smuch talk about the boys and i'd love to hear your deepened opinions on both of them, especially in F1 (since Hans hasn't really been present in the franchise afterwards)
Hi, Anon ❄ Idk if I have something important to say, but I've always viewed The big frozen four (Anna, Elsa, Kristoff, Hans) as a whole "set". They are connected and more similar than it seems.
The op's post was about trauma and fear and the sisters' response to it. Kristoff and Hans were traumatised and isolated too; basically everyone in Frozen had a metaphorical frozen heart but Anna, she's got a real one after so many tries to reach out for the people she loved in vain.
Kristoff was an orphan since birth, if we believe The lost legends: Fixer Upper book. He never knew parental love. The children at the orphanage bullied him, he could not make real friends, plus he was somewhat different from the others (this book strongly hints at Kristoff being autistic) He noticed those people, the ice harvesters, and was very eager to become one of them, to find his own place, but he could not really do it, no one really wanted to adopt him, and the craft was passed on within clans he wasn't a member of. When staying at the orphanage and the school became unbearable, Kristoff gladly allowed himself to be "kidnapped" to the Trolls' valley. He got a lot better there, but still there is a difference between a troll and a human; and the older he got, the more obvious it was. He always knew only offence and cruelty from people, but he could no longer be with trolls like in childhood, so he protected himself with cynicism and aloofness. He didn't believe in anything until he met Anna.
Hans, as Lee said, is the result of growing up without love(as all of them to some extent). Based on the information from the Frozen Heart book and that comic "Leftovers", his childhood was terrible. His brothers ignored and mocked him (someone might say that they felt something cursed in him, but maybe it was a self-fulfilling prophecy), his father considered him a worthless nobody and did not pay attention. The Isles were terrible and at the same time he was eager to prove himself to them. Power, a chance, a higher calling became both a way out of the cage, and an opportunity to earn the respect and love of his father and brothers. A way to show them that they were wrong, that he meant something. Hans's response to the trauma was coldness and hatred. As none treated him as a person, so he will not consider others.
If we place the characters on "the frozen heart" scale, Anna would be at the bottom, then Kristoff(Trolls saved him) then Elsa, and Hans at the top. Kristoff and Elsa didn't trust anyone, shutting everyone out. Anna and Hans trusted and desired other people, but in different ways. Anna thought that everyone was good and loving, Hans thought that everyone was either evil or stupid. There's so many parallels and similarities between them all: Kristoff and Hans and their cynicism, Elsa and Hans and "the cage" theme, their relationship with power, Anna and Hans as "the spare", etc, etc.
14 notes · View notes
bayofwolves · 8 months ago
Text
Rereading Against the Tide
After two months... we're so back.
Apologies once again for the impromptu hiatus! I'm excited to get back to these rereads. It's been a while, so I'll explain the purpose of these posts again: This is not a full analysis, but rather a compilation of details I find interesting or missed when I was a younger reader. I'm rereading the whole series to gather information for A Revised History of Erdas, so there may be some commentary from time to time on how I plan to change or expand on certain plot points.
Let's find out what horrors are in store for our heroes this time!
Finally, Abeke gets her own cover! My girl!! They change how Uraza looks on every cover, but I like how she looks here. I especially love the purple wisps coming from her; how cool would it be if that happened every time your spirit animal appeared out of passive state?
Erdas has the Fahrenheit scale, apparently. Well, that's gotta go. The top of Muttering Rock is about 200 degrees, or 93 degrees Celsius -- leagues hotter than anything ever recorded on Earth.
Abeke seems to have scar tissue pain, possibly due to nerve damage, from the stab wound Tahlia dealt her in Fire and Ice. She mentions that even though it has mostly healed, she still experiences pain there, particularly in colder weather. If only this hadn't been forgotten by the next book -- it would have been super interesting, in my opinion, to see one of our protagonists deal with lasting effects from an injury they received.
Meilin referring to Shane as Abeke's "Conqueror boyfriend" has been occupying space in my head since 2015. We should have had more of this energy. (I need to have one of the Conquerors or Redcloaks call Abeke Shane's Greencloak girlfriend in return. Drina most definitely would.)
Kalani and her people share similarities with the Māori of Earth. They have the same tattoos and concept of tapu.
Tangaroa is the name of the Māori atua (god) of the sea. I love finding little references to the Earth culture a region of Erdas was inspired by. They did the same with Tiddalik, Tahlia's water-holding frog, who shares a name with the real-life Australian legend he is based on.
I wish Abeke had gotten the chance to see Leopard, the baby orangutan, again. They were so sweet. Also, the authors should have kept this habit she has of rescuing baby animals going for longer. Picture this: She encounters something a little more deadly this time. Dotes on it for a bit and nurses it back to health or helps it find its way back to its family. It remembers how Abeke helped it, and in her hour of need comes to her rescue.
At least there's a cleansing ceremony (this presumably refers to noa) to rid someone of tapu. Now why didn't the authors have Kalani do this for Rollan in The Evertree instead of having her go against her beliefs for his sake? Man... I should have been in the writers' room.
"This quest is leaving a lot of burned bridges in our wake. I fear we, and perhaps all Greencloaks by extension, will no longer be so welcome afterwards in places like this." YES! Finally, someone considers the consequences of their actions. It's back to "the ends justify the means" in the next paragraph, but at least there was this fleeting moment of realization.
Nightshade Island was wiped from the world maps after the First Devourer War, along with Stetriol. I wonder if there were other places associated with the Conquerors and/or Kovo and Gerathon that were deemed "tainted" and erased from the history books. This also prompts a nitpick from me -- I wish the maps shown at the beginning of each book were more tailored to the book/arc. They added the Evertree and the Petral Mountain range in the second arc, which is great, but I want a whole lot more of that detail. In the first arc, the map could have had Stetriol missing from it. We could have had its first appearance on Immortal Guardians's map, once the Greencloaks could deny their existence no longer. Other important locations deserved to be on there too, maybe being added book by book. Glengavin. The Lake of the Elephant. Samis (perhaps disappearing without further comment after Fire and Ice). Cabaro's oasis. Muttering Rock. Zourtzi. The Place of Desolation. The list goes on. They all deserved to be put on the maps! I rest my case!
Meilin casually saying "I can still control Jhi" sent a shiver down my spine. It's so out of place. Like, how can she have spent so much time with the Greencloaks and still be so fundamentally wrong about the spirit animal bond?
So Timote was the heir to the Hundred Isles before the Conquerors captured him. And knowing how male-dominated monarchies work, the other brother, Piri, would likely have taken the throne before Kalani even if he is younger than her. The Conquerors knew what they were doing by killing the previous rulers and taking their two male children hostage. They wanted to leave the Hundred Islanders leaderless. To totally incapacitate them. I bet they were in for a shock when Kalani proved her capability as queen.
Feliandor is wearing a red cloak in Rollan's vision. Most certainly a throwaway detail, but it didn't stop me from sitting up and pointing at the page when I read it.
Rollan sees something vaguely familiar in Feliandor's face, and we have to wait an entire book before learning that he must have been reminded of Shane, his descendant. Seriously, the foreshadowing for multiple big events in the first arc is really well done. I love discovering all the little hints pointing towards Shane being the true Devourer, or Meilin being the mole. This is one thing the many authors successfully worked together on.
While the vision on Nightshade Island is one of my favourite parts of the book, something bugs me about it. Why did only Rollan have this vision? Despite Tarik and Meilin being right beside him as it happened, neither of them saw what he did. It would have been a lot better if they all had the same vision at once. If the echoes of what happened on that island centuries earlier still linger, shouldn't they appear to anyone who visits? Why would it only be one person out of three?
Peleke, the Komodo dragon, poses a brief threat to Abeke, Conor and Kalani on Sunlight Island. Except... his species should go by a different name in this world. Komodo dragons were named as such because they originate from Komodo Island on planet Earth. This is such an easy fix. Just name any one of the Hundred Isles and have the species come from there.
Abeke instinctively knows how to ride Uraza, despite it being her first time doing so. Was she Tembo in another life? Kidding. She is his direct descendant in ARHoE, though.
God, the scene with Tarik saying goodbye to the Four and begging them to come back to him haunts me. Tarik will never see Abeke or Meilin again, and he will die not knowing if they are alive or dead. He will die believing that he failed them.
I'm really glad to see some development of Tarik here. For all his appearances and importance to our protagonists, he is quite a flat character. But here, we get a good look into his headspace. He loves the Four deeply, like a father should love his children. He doesn't want them to go where he can't protect them. He wonders if the Greencloaks are doing the right thing by sending such young people into battles they might not return from, still thinking about what Barlow said all the way back in Wild Born. I need to see more of this Tarik.
I've talked about this before, but I love all the moments that suggest the Four Fallen will one day return to their old forms. I don't believe this would happen in their human partners' lifetimes, but in any case, it would be cool to see it come to pass.
Despite both Mulop and Briggan being visionary Great Beasts, neither of them foresaw Kovo using Feliandor to start a war. How convenient for him.
Abeke is able to spot Shane in the mass of Conquerors by his blond hair, which makes me wonder: What if blond people were considered a rarity in Erdas? What if golden hair was a trait exclusive to Stetriol, and most of the world had never seen it before? That would be kind of fun. (Yes, I know there's Conor, but he's more of a redhead in ARHoE.)
"Not far below her, Uraza was grappling with a huge doglike creature that Abeke thought might be a dingo." I know it's mentioned a few paragraphs later that Tarik used books to teach her about animals that were foreign to her (which is really cute), but dingoes are native to Stetriol, which the Greencloaks effectively erased from existence. There are probably no encyclopedias still in circulation that include Stetriolan flora or fauna. My headcanon is that Shane told Abeke about the animals that are native to his homeland, and that's how she knows about dingoes.
"She drew her bow back and aimed, trying to ignore her thudding heart. The man stood on an outcropping, shouting orders at the fighters scrambling up behind him. Her sharp arrow tip was pointed directly down at Zerif's heart." The way this scene directly parallels Abeke's attempt to shoot infected Zerif in The Burning Tide... wow. Ignoring canon and thinking of ARHoE where she does kill him in the end, this was written in the stars. It is her destiny.
"Stabbing, scratching pain seared through her, but she gained control of one hand --" So resisting Gerathon's mind control can cause physical pain. Interesting.
I know Rollan was kind of forced to leave Meilin, but couldn't he have swooped in on Great Essix and carried Abeke out of there AT LEAST? Not even Meilin can fight a giant gyrfalcon.
Gerathon is not any good at controlling people, damn. Maybe she's rusty after so many years.
This was a great read, as they all are. It was a nice refresher after Fire and Ice, with all the callbacks to what our heroes had faced in the previous books. Seriously, Fire and Ice was a mess in terms of continuity. But Tui understood the assignment. My favourite parts of this one were the beautiful butch lesbian that is Kalani, Abeke becoming mom to another baby animal and riding Great Uraza Tembo-style, the Feliandor vision and Mulop, ever a delight to read. I really enjoyed the people and culture of Oceanus; so excited for Kalani to reappear in the coming books. And, of course, the reveal of Meilin being the mole all along was utterly perfect. The amount of thought and planning that went into this decision, the layers of foreshadowing building up to this horrible truth... it deserves all the praise.
We're at the lowest point we've ever been, and it's about to get even lower.
This is part of an ongoing series.
Wild Born | Hunted | Blood Ties | Fire and Ice | Against the Tide | Rise and Fall | The Evertree
Immortal Guardians | Broken Ground | The Return | The Burning Tide
Heart of the Land | The Wildcat's Claw | Stormspeaker | The Dragon's Eye
Tales of the Great Beasts | The Book of Shane | Tales of the Fallen Beasts
8 notes · View notes
technicalknockout · 9 months ago
Note
What were some of your favourite pages in the book?
god thats a hard one jsnfjksdk the entire book is so good but i do have my favorites. heres an entire list
silly straws page - i read in 'dipper and mabel's guide to mystery and nonstop fun' that bill likes silly straws and thought it was a silly random tidbit, imagine how surprised i was when i realized there was LORE behind it.. im still figuring out some codes bc i dont wanna look them up and im having so much fun !!
stanford trying to keep me from reading the book page - "you cant hear the disappointed sigh im making rn, but i assure you it's devastating" i mean he failed to stop me from reading the entire thing in one sitting but i was just very happy to see ford's cursive again. It was really funny seeing him trying to guess what the reader would be convinced by (i saw the moth picture and thought 'whats that called, a goth moth?' I laughed out loud when it turned out that was actually its name)
urban legends page - as a long time fan of creepypasta the references in this page absolutely delighted me. Also the art is so realistically horrifying, whoever drew these i love you
the one true intelligence test - idk this page just made me laugh a lot
Entire anti-cipher society part - i love how instead of telling the story in just plain text, they made us follow the story with newspapers and journal pages. What was that called. I swear there was a name for that kind of storytelling if anyone knows pls pls tell me
every page with ford and fiddleford - BEAUTIFUL. SUBLIME. BEST THING TO EVER EXIST IN THE WORLD. I HECKING LOVE FRIENDS BEING WHOLESOME TOGETHER AND I LOVE IT MORE WHEN THEYRE MY FAVORITE CHARACTERS FROM MY FAVORITE SHOW. THEY MAD SNOWMEN OF EACH OTHER THATS SO CUTE
"but my aim is getting better" - do i need to explain this one
whatever this page is called;
Tumblr media
I hated reading this (i loved reading this). i kinda got spoiled before i bought the book with an analysis post, had to literally put my phone down and think about what id just read. i think this page really puts bill and ford's relationship into perspective. ford's a person and bill's a multidimensional semi-god creature, bill will do and say anything in his power to get ford to do what he wants. this relationship cannot even begin to resemble normal. and also the forgetting your own name part horrified me, thats some good horror right there.. love it when books make me have a visceral reaction to tiny words on paper
call transcript from the police - OH the LORE and CHARACTER ANALYSIS FOOD RIGHT HERE. i could talk for hours about how bill straight up sucks at relationships and he's SO unwilling to admit he was upset about falling out with ford that he's lying to himself MULTIPLE TIMES OVER AND OVER and how a lack of genuine connection with people is eating him up - but if i talked about all that this post would spiral into insanity real quick. Also drunk bill talking into the phone was very very sad and very very on character and i could hear hirsch's bill voice inside my head it was really good aghjgnkhhh
stan's page - I ALMOST CRIED AND I KNOW THATS KIND OF A WEIRD REACTION BUT I SAW THE STAN PAGE IN THISISNOTAWEBSITEDOTCOM OKAY AND IT WAS MAKING ME VERY UNWELL I WAS EXTREMELY RELIEVED TO JUST HEAR THIS MAN SO HAPPY AGAIN STANLEY PINES I LOVE YOU YOU DESERVE EVERYTHING
yee that turned out longer than id anticipated jdndjs
overall this was amazing. an entire book written in my favorite character's voice is something i've only ever dreamed of and it's genuinely a frickin honour to have a copy in my house. my bookshelf is 2% more cursed now and i would not have it any other way.
one of these days im gonna black out and there will be a twenty-pages long essay on bill's social life on your feed. i advise you to gently scroll past it without looking.
7 notes · View notes
spotsboogaloowrites · 3 months ago
Note
Hi! The OC ask game for 3, 5, 8, 13, and 22 🩵
OOH!! I am excited to respond to these!!! Thank you so much for expressing interest in my gal Lyra! That said *cracks knuckles*
(I put read more as this definitely may be a bit of a longer post with some minor spoilers for plans for my fic!)
3. What song describes your OC?
… I’m cheating and putting two because I associate Lyra very heavily to the two following songs!
Collared- Vane Lily
While the original context behind the song does not fit her exactly, the lyrics and sentiment expressed in the song really fits Lyra’s complexes with seeming like a good person and being good enough for everyone around her. In a way, she is collared by the near perfect expectations she places on herself just so she feels like a good person. Also the Christian imagery does play a role in her story but that’s for later.
POLLYANNA (I BELIEVE IN YOU)- Catherine Warwick
A much happier song that just really encapsulates Lyra’s own curiosity about the world, desire to believe in a better world, and her feelings towards her fellow Strawhats.
5. Do you ship your OC with a Canon character? If so who?
I am OC x canon trash. Of course I do haha! That said, Lyra is shipped with
*insert a drum roll here*
Tumblr media
Sanji!!! Yup! Lyra was an OC made with our lover cook in mind! The two are planned to have a major slow burn (like… they are planned to get together late post-timeskip) but that has not stopped me from planning a lot for them. Figuring out how they would work together not only has helped expand Lyra but really get to analyze Sanji as a character, appreciating him so much more (he’s become my literary analysis project at this rate lol).
So on that note, I’m very open to answering questions about them and my thoughts on Sanji and what I plan to do with him! Keep in mind though I’m still getting through the show (getting through Thriller Bark. That said I know quite a lot of spoilers so no need to walk on eggshells with me (yes I know all about what happens in WCI)) so I can’t answer everything but I will do my best!
8. What hobbies does your OC have? What do they do to unwind?
Lyra often is the kind to prefer keeping her hands busy when she is unwinding. When she isn’t working on the logbook (as she serves as the chronicler of the crew), she often can be seen doing chores on the ship, sketching (she is a bit of a doodler and with her hoping to add illustrations to the logbook, she practices drawing various things a lot), and training (it is not uncommon to see her and Zoro having a sparring match when they move to the Thousand Sunny). She also enjoys reading, being a huge fan of reading any sort of folklore whether it be fairytales, myths, legends, etc., and stargazing with it not being uncommon to see her with a star chart when she is keeping watch for the night, enjoying to spend the time trying to identify the constellations.
13. Does your OC have a rival? How did it start?
Lyra doesn’t exactly have a rival, not really holding grudges easily. The closest things she has to a rival are Foxglove, a figure from her past that she definitely does not have fond memories of (but that’s to be revealed later), and Porkchop from the Foxy Pirates. She really despised how she treated Chopper like a pet and the constant adoration she got from the Foxy Pirates fostered a major dislike for her. Not that she would ever try anything to establish this rivalry. Simply booing her is enough of a challenge for this failgirl.
22. Fight or Flight? Are they a lover or a fighter?
Having been trained from a young age to fight, Lyra is definitely geared towards fighting compared to flight, being a surprisingly strong and adept close combat fighter. That said, Lyra definitely is more of a lover, not being against fighting but definitely the kind to be more empathetic rather than confrontational. That said, that does not prevent her from being willing to fight for what she loves.
Thank you again for the questions!! They were a joy to answer and I hope you enjoy this insight on my gal!
6 notes · View notes