#it’s just fascinating seeing the fandom evolve

[a-problematic-writer]

I know I’ve been in the MCSM fandom too long because people use Lukesse and Jesskas interchangeably now. (Boomer VC) Back in MY day, Lukesse was for Fem!Jesse/Lukas and Jesskas was for Masc!Jesse/Lukas…

[origamiplushie]

the first day of the current just leave a comment fest brought me back to the first fanfic I remember ever reading which was an mlp fic hosted on fimfiction.net and boy let me tell you it is sooo jarring when you stumble upon divergent evolution in fandom spaces.

Like I have been primarily using AO3 for like 8-9 years? now and I've been using tumblr since like 2013 or something. and currently the generalconsensus is that comments should be thankful that the author decided to share their work, encouraging and overall positive. and they definetely should not offer unsolicited concrit.

and then I go to reread that fic that I still think was generally very good and well written, leave a sweet comment on how much this fic influenced my life and how much I liked it then and like it now and decide to see what the other comments have to say.

dear fellow AO3 users let me tell you it was a culture shock. the worst for me was the person who had found this fic with more than 16 chapters, 60k+ words and had made the choice to hateread the entire thing, leaving a comment on each and every chapter with what they had hated about it. and this was not an old comment from 2012 when times were different, this person had read the fic in 2019!

and even if the other comments weren't as directly hateful as this person's, they were still incredibly rude by AO3 standards. for example most of the resent comments on the author's profile(you can comment directly on profile's on fimfiction) were whiny messages just saying 'hey why aren't you posting' and 'hey i think this fic is really funny, when are we getting another chapter?' and 'yeah you said you're life had gotten busy but why are you still busy'.

I felt honestly sorry for this poor author, but from looking around at other fics on the site this seems to just be the norm there. so maybe this is just me accidentaly wandering outside my social media bubble and the author is happy every time they get a comment hoping to see more writing from them soon?

[foxconfessorandthewolf]

Okay, so I’m a bit wine drunk but I don’t think I’ve ever really articulated why I love Snarry together and I’m currently trying to finish a fic after taking a three-year-hiatus from writing these two, so this is probably a good exercise!

I’m a bit on the older side of fandom, having been a fanartist and fervent reader since 2003, so my connection was really sparked during that time between OOTP and HBP when Snape and Harry were at some of their most clashing and deeply vitriolic, forced together into hateful vulnerability by Occulmency lessons. Every scene between them was electric, laced with tension as we truly did not know how things would go, or even where Snape’s true loyalties lay. He was an unknown, tied up with Harry’s own family’s mysterious past, connected to Harry in a myriad of odd ways that few other characters were, and - as a rivals-to-lovers lover - I was fascinated by him. From that first moment when they lock eyes in the Great Hall and that frisson of pain shoots through Harry’s scar, I desperately wanted to know who the hell this man was and his story. I think a lot of Snarry shippers come to the ship with a special appreciation for Severus Snape’s character himself. He’s such an incredibly drawn character, rich with complexity, complicated and pretty fucked up, with clearly-held passions, hatreds, weaknesses, and motivations. He’s emotional in a way a lot of other characters aren’t, though I think he’d loathe to hear that. And his character voice! It’s unique and pitch-perfect. You always know exactly who is speaking with his lines. Honestly, the way he evolved from a spy/traitor stock character to become so multifaceted and enigmatic is a masterpiece of characterization, and it’s an aspect of why I’m drawn to him - there’s still so much about his origins and well, what his damage was, that we don’t know. Because of this, I especially love Snarry fics that delve into character studies of him, trying to explore all the shadows left behind. I also admit I have a preference for interpreting Snape as morally grey. I like him petty, sharp-tongued, ambitious, with an incredibly liquid definition of what is right and wrong. He’s self-interested, dripping with disdain, and really doesn’t see that as a problem. What happens to him when he deeply falls in love?

I love a ship that makes me work for it. There’s no obvious line of how Snape and Harry might wind up together, so each fic is a wealth of possibilities of bringing these two together despite their roadblocks. As I mentioned, I’m big fan of animosity in a ship. Give me rivals, give me enemies, give me the sparking passions, the sharp fury, the way they stoke each others’ emotions and seek to hurt, the racing hearts, the raised hackles, the intense emotional reaction to another person. Just throw it at me. I devour that shit. I love the messy and taboo nature of their relationship, the complications raising from their age difference, temperaments, and largely similar and shared traumas. There’s an interesting element of Snape being a foil to James Potter, and how that relates to Harry and their past. Basically, this shit is really good potting soil for incredible fucking fics, packed with nutrients.

The shared natures of their traumas, like Voldemort and each being forgotten and abused as children and how they might be able to understand each other and bond from it is also something that’s fascinating to explore. I love when a writer pushes on Snape’s bruises, looking to make them hurt, cracking his sardonic brain open and rooting around in there, and I love when they compare and contrast to Harry’s. There’s a seductiveness to how Snape is so obsessed with Harry, fixated on his Boy Who Lived heroic reputation, clearly dripping with envy. What, beyond jealousy, might draw Snape to Harry and what, other than hatred, might draw Harry to Snape?

It’s all this, the passionate, electric, dangerous nature of their relationship; the way their characters contrast each other yet have surprising connections; and the question of finding solace that keeps me here, 21 years later. I’ve had wines less complex than this ship. They’re fascinating. They’re messy. They’re everything.

[crossposted from a reddit comment I just left, and wanted to share with y’all]

[decepti-thots]

while i'm talking about Whirl, one thing i've been meaning to talk about for ages just in a 'i am aware some people may not actually know this, and it hardly gets mentioned in fandom' is that Whirl in Interiors talking about briefly trying to change his name when he was a flight instructor at the flight academy is a reference to a passage in Bullets, which is in retrospect very obviously him:

Jetstream had taught him to recognize his inherent worthlessness. In front of the other cadets he'd always been supportive, but in private he would berate him for showing off and for getting ideas above his station. “You think you're something special?” he used to say. “You think you’re better than the rest, better than me, just because you can turn a few tricks? On a good day - on your best day - I’d say you were unremarkable.” Rotorstorm’s only response to Jetstream’s verbal abuse was to make jokes. If you can make light of the situation, he'd think, it can’t be as bad as it seems. Over time, Jetstream’s verbal abuse... evolved. On one occasion, Rotorstorm was pushed against a wall. On another, he was punched to the floor. Before long, he was on the receiving end of sustained and entirely unprovoked beatings. The worst day of Rotorstorm’s life - worse than the day war was declared; worse than the day of the Simanzi Massacre - was the day the IAA installed a Cryogenic Regeneration Chamber. He couldn't remember what he’d done to deserve that night's battering, but as he lay on the floor of the aircraft hangar, his torso freshly pummeled, his spinal strut bent at a right angle and his face reduced to a shallow bowl of oil and splinters, he saw something he would never forget: Jetstream was standing over him, fists clenched and head cocked, coolly appraising his options. And the look of exhilaration on his face as he wondered where to place the next punch had been terrifying. Rotorstorm had passed out before Jetstream had finished shoveling him into the CR Chamber, and had woken up the next day without a single scratch on his body. Jetstream had left overnight; he moved to a training facility in another province and later changed his name. Since then, Rotorstorm had seen him only once: he'd been sitting in the front row when Rotorstorm had been awarded the Novic Medal for Outstanding Valor, and he’d been clapping and cheering more loudly than anyone else.

and this is a really fascinating thing to consider for me because if you just describe the whole thing briefly in the abstract, it's gonna likely sound like one of two things:

whirl tried to turn over a new leaf with a new name, and it worked for a time but ultimately he couldn't and went back to his old life

whirl tried to turn over a new leaf with a new name, but he couldn't and was just as much of an aggro wildcard as ever so gave up

but this is... kind of not either of those, including the last one? whirl IS acting like the violent, bitter, unpredictable asshole we come to meet in MTMTE and know he was during the war, to an extent, but he's also clearly succesfully keeping up something of a facade of really inhabiting that 'not Whirl, nope, i'm a Normal Flight Instructor' in public. it's only to rotorstorm he's not, seemingly. (and even then, the way rotorstorm describes him here is... really cold and deliberate in a way that feels kind of different to what we see later.)

obviously it's. i mean it's SO deeply unpleasant, very effectively communicated in terms of how awful and traumatising that kind of thing is btw a+ but also Jesus Fucking Christ, but it also suggests to me a very specific experience Whirl is having in this period of his life that isn't quite either of those obvious choices. pokes at it. god. what the fuck is going through your head you terrible helicopter you.

[ganondoodle]

Hello 👋

Swallowing my nerves at last to send you an ask! I was just wondering, what inspires your designs? Are their inspirations in stuff like movies or games? Or just things you come up with yourself?

i .. honestly its kinda hard to tell, sometimes i just randomly think of something, like some detail, or color combination and try to incorporate that into a design somehow; it can come from anywhere, like the color scheme of a pithaya/dragonfruit is something i have been wanting to make a design with for ages but havent come up with anything good in all those years ;O;

im a very easily fascinated by color, espeically in nature, like sometimes i just stop and stare at something like i froze in time bc i just woooooooooooooah color! i probably look like a weirdo doing that though

its really hard to pinpoint anything specifically, the most is probably .. other artists? i guess? which always makes me nervous bc my memory is shit in most areas of life and i worry myself to pieces whether i unintentionally "stole" an idea and just dont remember and think it was my own, it goes further that sometimes i see something that makes me want to draw a similar concept but dont bc i dont want to 'steal' even if that couldnt be further from my intention (have been accused of that before ..)

that said for my ocs specifically .. most are rather old and have just kinda evolved out of their awkward first iterations (shargons first iteration was a hauro-howl- copy that was really just some human covered in feathers .. another oc was once a hellboy copy but in green- havent drawn nor redeisgn them in ages lol), the biggest inspirations for them is a mix of animals, bonus if you dont see them often- im a big shark, whale and sea creatures in general nerd so i tend to take from them as a priority but always trying to be less directly animal and mostly just .. features that work together

Eadrya is one of the newer OCs- i started to write but then looked at my folders and oh they are from 2017 .., i even made a design timeline for them how much they, and my art, have changed back in 2020, so thats also way outdated now lol (they apparently started as a whale .. thing? its like a pokemon evolution lol)

this is them now (i like this sketch still, though shargons design is now also outdated lmao)

this ones from early 2023 so also outdated now but you get the point

for demons i try to be a bit more wild on shapes and colors while still adhering to the rules of how they work (humanoid form, demon form, animalistic, one element each and more or less made to fit that, 4 arms is very common, look to be bost scary and wild but also something that would make you stop in tracks and stare in awe and fear if you crossed paths)

often times designs just kinda .. happen, i have maybe the idea ok i wanna make something with a white and red pattern also moose or those big horned cows are cool and kinda scary so maybe sth akin to that (though this one is technically a redesign too- its also pretty much entirely different)

for non demons but still non human i go for a much more restrained design, mainly inspired directly by an animal and giving the color scheme a good spin, plus adding unconventional body shapes, like ki'ita is also a good example, her old idea was just orca anthro pirate and just by making the white green instead in her most recent redesign already adds that little spin to it

that can have its pitfalls though, as i often fall into the big arm small head small legs scheme over and over xD

alot of it is trial and error, deciding on the colors can take me hours bc im always searching for my little rule of having one contrast color that shows up in very few places to draw attention to it (like with Eadrya its those bright yellow eyes and thingy at their tail)

and that is all about myy own ocs, when its fandom stuff it works kinda similar though, either in the connections i wanna draw or just thinking it further- like how deities in destiny work also just kinda .. happened like an ever derailing train

like for demise i was at first really just im gonna give him horns bc horns are cool and he got those on the starting mural in the game- so how his hair work? well maybe it isnt hair actually and just unbound energy, im making him a deity too and fit hylias design to his so, yeah, then so how does it work, ok he gotta have a skeleton still, but what if his entire actual body is made up of pure magical energy with its core in the ribcage? with the core in the ribcage >:3c and the scales you see are just like cooled down lava as an armor bc his thing is fire and earth !! the normal blood? is a thin layer of skin imiated from mortals to keep the scales together and flexible so if he ACTUALLY gets hurt hed bleed magic that looks more like lava and any normal blood you see is just the armor- so why does he have a skeleton still instead of being just energy? maybe its gotta be bound to something OH and what if all of the deities started as mortals like a mirror to the trio later on and the gods cannot have direct influence to the worlds so they needed a right hand that is neither god nor mortal but both by killing a mortal by whatever their element will be (demise burned, hylia drowned etc) and their skeleton and spirit is kept but put into a body of magic- OH what if their spirit core is like almost piloting their bodies like a mech in a way bc if youd look close youd see that every strand of magic is actual a hand of their spirit so it makes it more weird and other bc hed be able to reach out with thousands of burning claws of all shapes and sizes like the beheaded forest god at the end of mononoke- SO if hed lose and arm or something all those strands would untangle and rearrange his bones back together-OH MY GOD the whole armor idea works so well for ghirahims dark armor so what if demise had two swords once and lost one and since has forged an armor similar to his own for ghirahim out fo fear of losing him t---

and that all is a process that happens over several weeks and months not rarely while i am drawing something mindlessly and suddendly *have a thought* and omg that makes so much sense-

so "what" inspires my designs? an ever derailing train of thought about making cool thick monsters that arent the evil thing to get rid of for once? cool color schemes? idk it just kinda happens??

[shierak-inavva]

Listen.

I genuinely shipped Remy x Rogue from the series and some moments in the comics.

Erik x Rogue just happened to be another pairing I later shipped in addition bc I was fascinated by all of their interactions in the comics.

I knew Remy x Rogue were THE pairing though, so I left it at that.

Then ‘97 happened.

I love Remy and him with Rogue to bits…

but my heart has been beating SO ARDENTLY from all of the moments with Erik x Rogue.

I haven’t been so passionate about a non-status quo pairing since X-Men: Evolution (Cyclops x Rogue 😅), and my heart just ACHES so much for Rogueneto to have a canon happy ending since the comics keep fumbling that up.

anon, man, i get you. i’m new to this fandom entirely but i’m not particularly a fan of the rogue/gambit relationship from what i’ve seen of it—but then rogue/magneto is way more geared towards my personal tastes anyways.

i actually got into '97 BECAUSE i learned about the rogue/magneto relationship and i was so intrigued by the idea of it (my only knowledge at that time of these two characters was ian mckellan and anna paquin and i thought 'well god that's wild as hell i gotta see this' and then BOOM magneto was out here lookin like THAT and of course i got hooked are you KIDDING me) and i was instantly drawn to the dynamic between them and the intrigue of their relationship. getting to see them coming together at the end of episode 2 like that was...well, it cemented the whole thing for me, the girl who no one can touch and who can't touch anyone else, who craves physical intimacy and connection, finally having someone who can touch and be touched by her?? oh my god. the way she melted when he touched her hand, i'm still just unwell over it.

(also scott/rogue in evolution was super cute potentially so you're so real for that fr)

but i think what really draws me to them as a ship is how intensely and deeply their relationship goes in the comics. these are two people who forged a bond with each other that's lasted for years--even when they've been apart or with other people (gambit, for instance) they're still orbiting each other. rogue is always the one person to trust erik, to believe she can still appeal to him or that he can be reasoned with and erik is always there when and if rogue needs help, needs him. PERSONALLY i think that they've fallen together and apart in the comics like they have because they're both so similar and and both so self-sacrificing that they're willing to give up their own happiness together to try and make others happy, to meet outside expectations, and because i think they're both afraid of actually accepting happiness together. rogue is also, i think, not prepared for the kind of relationship/life that erik is offering her. he's intense, and his life is intense, and honestly if she were to choose to be with him it would mean accepting power and accepting the love of someone who wants to help her grow and evolve and be powerful because he sees potential in her and views her not just as a lover but as a partner and an equal. and for someone as powerful as magneto to see you as an equal....i mean i'm sure yall can do the math there.

i'd love to see them both fully embrace a relationship and a life together, but i know that's probably not gonna come together in the comics for us 😮‍💨 at least certainly not any time soon; but the relationship we've been getting bits and pieces of in '97 has the potential to be something really interesting and really satisfying, so i'm hoping they do more with it moving forward !!

[omegastation]

I like that the way we view storylines and characters change as we grow and experience new things in life. A good example is Samara explaining why someone might join the Justicars, even if it looks like a miserable time : "Sometimes the most brutal path is the only honest one." When I was first playing the game, I understood the words but I didn't fully get the meaning. Now I do get it. I know exactly what she means.

But it doesn't have to be a big thing. It can be about hobbies. Years ago, I didn't care that much that Turians were inspired by Romans and the Roman empire. Now I'm in a rabbit hole of Roman Empire books because I read Mary Beard's Emperor of Rome on holidays so I care now and want to compare. Obviously, it doesn't mean I understand things better (reading books is not going to make me a specialist for sure…), I'm talking about level of interest. I get excited and want to find tiny bits of information that might be useful to my understanding of the turians.

What else? Languages and in general words people use interest me a lot more than they used to. So I desperately want an expert to analyze the hell out of the common language/writing we see everywhere in the games. And I try to pay more attention to the words Legion uses, because that right there is a fascinating case to analyze.

Characters in power also mean different things to me now. When I first played, Hackett was that kind of old man you reported to. Now I'm fascinated by him and always happy when he is on screen. He's honestly like the rock star of my playthrough, I'm not even kidding. Even someone like Primarch Victus. Of course I sympathized with him before, but I'm more interested in his storyline now because my current reading list has a lot to do with resistance fighters or people who have to become leaders during difficult times.

And by the way, I like that how we change goes for how we view fandom too. I was always so sensitive, so prone to get upset, so ready to make a post about this or that. And yesterday I saw a post with character hate and I immediately blocked the user and just kept on checking the tag. Later I was like "Oh wait. It could have been as simple as that the entire time?". You grow older and you just want to protect your peace.

Anyway if you have a different view of storylines/characters/fandom as you change and grow or get new hobbies, I would love to read about it. It's nothing new or special, but it is a cool thing that our perspective can evolve.

[official-impravidus]

a brief history of the white collar/dc crossover

i was talking about this on my other server and thought i'd share it here!

basically from 2015-2020, quinis was the one who carried the fandom. she had written most of the fics from that time, though there were some scattered through the years, not as consistently as her. she was the one who really coined the whole neal caffrey is dick grayson thing and also neal is bryce larkin AND dick grayson

in 2020, BabyGenius started writing for the fandom, writing the 10 fic series "A Bat in A White Collar," a quick burst of new fics for what was a pretty nonexistent fandom. then elijay, CastIntoFlames, CheetahLeopard2 and Spnfandom8 started writing for the fandom, in late 2020, early 2021

onto my personal lore. i got into the fics through quinis's chuck crossovers and reached out to CheetahLeopard2 on tumblr when i was outlining my first fic. we became friends and ended up making the white collar/dc server. i began Cranking Out Fics and so did a lot of the aforemention renaissance writers (what we refer to this new wave of white collar/dc fics)

while this is happening, people are joining the server which was very passionate. something that especially added to how much content was being made was our prompts-for-taking channel where people were sharing prompts everyday and the writers were writing them, inspiring more prompts and more fics which brought new readers to the server. the server and fandom grew faster than any of us could ever imagine. and in just a year, had written over 1,000 fics for the odd crossover

i had also hosted White Collar/DC Week 2021 which had gotten over 200 fics written for it which made so many people curious about the, frankly, absurdly large burst of fics for such a strange crossover.

there were so many writers from that period who were so passionate about white collar/dc but it wasn't just about the writers. it was about the readers and the way we all encouraged each other and the stories we were creating.

there is now a wave of new writers and readers for the fandom who didn't even know there was a server and i find it so fascinating how it continues to live on and evolves with the new writers and readers. it makes me so happy to see something i personally and others had lost the love for live on in its own way.

[taylortruther]

re your tags "the way taylor views and approaches love is way different than mine" "so in general a lot of her songs don't strike me as super romantic"

promise im not trying to start discourse or anything, im just very curious for you to elaborate on that because i find it fascinating. how exactly do you see the way taylor approaches love, and how is it different from the way you do? and can you elaborate on why you don't find her songs romantic in light of that?

the reason im curious is because ive always felt that some of her songs describing situations i think she finds very romantic, always give me mild ick (namely "the other side of the door," i find the idea of begging for someone back who cheated on you and admitting you "need them" kinda icky, but i think she finds it romantic in a way), so its interesting to me your tags kinda echoed that feeling and im curious for you to elaborate

you dont have to answer if you dont want though

well tldr you know how i am a ~touch grass~ nondramatic blogger? i am that way in my relationships too fjkadsl. and i don't think it's a hot take to say taylor isn't like that. she wants to be a lil melodramatic and romantic and passionate and out of control--she described wanting that (and thinking love should make you go crazy) for a long time. and i like passion and intimacy but i do NOT like feeling out of control and the times i allowed it were bad for me.

BUT!!! the really great thing about taylor's view of love is that we have seen it evolve and grow over time. she's addressed a lot of these things herself, because she's tried to unlearn a lot of behaviors that were hurting her! the archer, and much of lover in particular, is so stunning (to me) for that reason--she goes through her mentality of wanting conflict, going for the jugular, running away when things got hard or scary, icing out her partner, and basically begs him to help her through it. she said in so many ways, "don't let me let you go because i am my own worst enemy and i want to learn to be a good partner, not someone who cuts and runs." ie, she learned that cruelty works in movies, but life isn't a movie, life is about support and having healthy conflict so you can grow together. significantly different from "if this was a movie, you'd be here by now." i think she's been really clear about putting the work in and i love that and i will acknowledge that forever because it is hard to change, and she doesn't get enough credit for it within the fandom.

and this is completely normal/expected when you look at the maturity and growth of a high schooler to a 33-year-old woman. you live and you learn! it's really fascinating to see taylor do that in front of us, and i feel lucky she shares that with us.

but in general think taylor is also really driven by proving people wrong, and romanticizes her struggles more than i do--it is what makes her such a hard worker and beautiful artist and so growth-oriented. i'm not like that at all LMAO. like, i grow but i am just... different in my approach. and that's neither good nor bad for either of us.

[urlocalrambler]

DN thoughts: Alex Palmer.

My views on Alex are probably not as interesting or as spirited as some other people's viewpoints. However, as someone who was thoroughly apathetic to her storyline, I think the DN fandom is skewed on a double-ended spectrum of either hating on Alex like a devil incarnate, or revering her like a goddess. I find this difference very fascinating as someone just peering in as a casual observer of her character.

Ultimately, I think the problem with Alex is that often, in typical dark romance series spanning over several couples like Devils Night, you'd expect Alex to get her own book and to end up with a horsemen. This is what many fans expected of Alex. She was Rika's best friend, the only other woman we were allowed to care about and be invested in through the duration of Corrupt and I guess, beyond it too, so fans were invested in her. Unlike the other girls, Alex was never villainised by the horsemen at any point, she was accepted into the fold and that made her interesting because she was untouched by the brush that tainted all the other female main characters. Alex was put on a pedestal and was the 'all-around badass' of the series.

If this was any other dark romance book, the next tale in line would've been for Alex after Corrupt.

Add in the fact that there was also A LOT of Will / Alex shoved into the books prior to Nightfall... Well, it probably fed into this assumption regarding Alex. Nightfall and Conclave only made it worse as they both put forward the idea of a love triangle of Alex / Will / Emory. It probably felt natural for some fans to be pre-disposed to supporting and excusing all of Alex's actions because we met her first, Alex was portrayed as Will's partner in crime, so it maybe felt natural to ship AlexWill over WillEmmy. Personally, I was never a fan of Alex (and I also wasn't much of a fan of Will) but I can see why Pen subverting expectations and pursuing WillEmmy as endgame from the very start might've surprised people. After all, Alex was pushed into the spotlight so much in the other books. She was given so many scenes with Will, and she even ended up invading the storyline of Nightfall and was positioned as Will's other choice who stuck with him at his worst... So even if she was shitty to Emory, it's very easily swept under the rug.

Alex was cool girl. Alex was the one who stood by Will. Alex supported Rika as her ride or die. Alex could do no wrong... Alex was honestly a very hollow character.

I think, within DN, Alex was the only character who felt the most like caricature to me. She was the very embodiment of the 'female lead's best friend' trope. Pen tried to get her out of that mould, but it didn't really work because they weren't willing to let Alex's character fail or stumble or be anything other than well-liked and universally adored.

In my opinion, this glazing is because Alex's character is supposed to be proof that the books aren't misogynistic or self-insert wish fulfilment – Alex is a neon sign that says 'look! this book doesn't shit on all women that aren't named Rika. It really doesn't. Look, we have a sex worker bff character who everyone loves too. This isn't just Rika's world. See, see, look at Alex!' But well, the problem is that the world is still very clearly Rika's to own and we are only really allowed to like Alex because she bows down to Rika and will never be perceived as better than her.

Then, as the series progresses, Alex evolves into the fairy godmother role of being the cool girl who gets the other girls outside of their square box by ?? talking up sex a lot ?? Personally, I found it weird. I strongly disliked Alex's scenes in Hideaway, I didn't understand why she had to come onto Banks, I kinda got Rika / Alex in corrupt because that was about Rika showing Michael that she could do exactly what he does even if I did found it kinda cringe. But Banks / Alex, I didn't see any value in it– all of Alex's scenes in Hideaway were just done for the purpose of shoving her in as that fairy godmother, sexually-charged bff role again. Same with Nightfall, I found the Emory / Alex sex scene to be useless rather than them reclaiming power, reconciling, getting square with each other, or whatever the hell it was supposed to mean.

Personally, I think the problem with Alex is that she is a trope rather than a fully-formed character. In some instances, she even felt more like a plot device. To improve her character, Alex should've been given her own book rather than glomming her into Nightfall's storyline. Or she should've just stayed in her trope-y role of Rika's BFF.

Keep in mind. This is just MY interpretation of the character. I neither like nor dislike her. Y'all feel to love or hate her as you wish.

[patheticpaprika]

Goncharov: Fandom's Struggle Between Fanon vs. Canon and How That's Created A Mythos Rivaling The Greeks

A tag ramble to this post that got away from me and became too long to feel okay putting in the tags lol. It can be easily read as a stand alone though.

It's absolutely FASCINATING to me being able to both watch and participate in the Goncharov (?)fandom(?). It's taking everything that fandom culture is and letting it run free without any barriers to stop it.

Because frankly, I can't think of anything (to my knowledge) quite like it in recent history to reach such a scale. Both the ability to write stories down and the rise of copyright have had a significant impact on the way stories are told. We went from a storytelling culture that slowly evolved each story told by the person telling it, to one that is very close-handed to the narratives created.

And yes, to some extent, this twisting and evolving still happens in fandoms to the point that fanon and canon can become so separated it feels jarring. But that's just it isn't it? There always remains the canon. That will always be the true story. Fanfiction will forever be fanfiction, no matter how much we want it to be "real." You can whittle away at the narrative to shape it into something more appealing, but it will always be stuck as a block of wood.

Yet, the very fact that fanon exists proves that we never lost that want to change stories and make them a little bit our own. All that we lost was the medium to do so. Evolve something too far, and it won't be the same, will it? We're stuck in the confines of "canon."

I have seen fanfiction of fanfiction before, but it tends to quite quickly pitter out without its own foundation to stand upon. More can be added to the universe, but what's there does not change. It does not evolve the way a story passed down orally does; in a story spoken, the canon is forced to slowly change by the memory and style of the speaker. A classic game of telephone.

Goncharov however? There is no original story; there is no true canon. Not only is the story evolving freely from storyteller to storyteller, but the only reason there is even a coherent story in the first place is that there are multiple storytellers weaving the tale at once yet also expecting you to fill in the gaps.

It's like we're all playing that one writing game where each person writes a sentence back and forth to create a story. Yet, instead of you and one friend, we're playing it on this gargantuan sitewide scale that can't possibly all be connected into a singular coherent narrative. But you're not supposed to be able to. Each person can choose what they want to know it as. It's like some big giant exploratory choose-your-own-adventure book. The framework is there, but it's going in 50 different directions and you can always add another one in just for fun. You discover the story as you read, but only the bits you like get added on.

It's fucking incredible.

We all see each piece of media through our own personal lenses but never like this?? Not to this extent. We're all collectively joining together to obsess over the little ideas in our heads we got from each other's prompts and are excitedly spewing them regardless of how contradictory they are. We do something similar brainstorming with others but not with 12k messages in a single day.

Would this have even been possible before the rise of social media? Not to mention the strong sense of community Tumblr has that is so rare to see with such a large amount of people. There's more people than you could ever know on this site but we all act like some deranged extended family. Yes, people can work together but so rarely do people that vary so greatly in personality and life experiences, get together in such larger numbers to do a little silly goofy CREATE AN ENTIRE STORY THAT DOESN'T EXIST.

We pull shenanigans like this all the time. But this time it's not like eeby deeby or even the mishapocolyse; this time we're seeing the power of an entire community working together to create not only layers and layers of memes but layers of memes shaping an entire mythos. It's like we're the Greeks thinking up stories of our gods but instead it's a homoerotic mafia movie from 1973 written by Matteo JWHJ 0715 and Martin Scorsese that all started with a picture of a shoe.

We have stumbled across something fascinating and new. This may not be the first mafia movie that's been thought up and played around with but this is absolutely the first to be created by thousands of people working together but also towards their own individual goal/story. We're seeing the power that created mythology being wielded by fandom culture, and it's letting it evolve like no other story has.

It's free from the confines of prescribed canon, but there is so much being created that can be canon if you want it to be. This isn't changing one by one like some spoken tale towards exponential growth either. This has been created like one spectacular big bang. We had a funny post of a boot, and then we had a poster and that was enough to make Tumblr go collectively insane. (Not that we weren't already.) I want to (politely) shake all of you by the shoulders till everyone realizes how crazy this all is.

This story is ours, all of ours. Goncharov (1973) is held together by the power of belief and love for it. We have fragments of canon, yes, but it only exists because we want it to. And God-damn it, I hope we do it again. Together we can create things that we'd never thought could exist (and in this case still doesn't).

-We- are strong. Please never forget that.

As it now 6am and I have not slept, I will leave you with a quote; Goncharov's final solemn plea as he slowly bled to death, for I feel it's in an odd way rather fitting.

"What is the dust but a remnant of what we once were, all around us coated with it.

But we brush it away in search of something else. Not everything that mattered once matters now.

Yet you seem to think that's the only way, just keep dusting it.

You never stop to think that some things we search for might not be worth keeping.

Nothing has meaning unless we continue to think it does.

So please... I beg of you, can't we just move on and let this sickening contempt between us dissolve into dust?"

[tylejandro]

I find it really funny how each ship the TD fandom pulls out of their ass for José tells a story.

Courtné: Happened right after José first appeared in TDAS during 2013. Some big name fans on Tumblr liked the idea of Courtney being Heather's step-sister, loved Aleheather very much, and it evolved from there. Very, very hetero. No shade, it's just jarring compared to post-2020 TD fandom. This description doesn't cover most of how this crack ship became big on Tumblr for a while, I wrote about it better here on Fanlore, but I didn't join this fandom until 2019 so there's likely a lot I'm missing. There was also this post that got a lot of notes on Tumblr back then saying the show would be much better if Dawn/Scott, Duncan/Zoey, Izzy/Noah, Courtney/José and Brick/Jo were canon. Wild.

Heathsé: Was created by "PooPee095" on Wattpad during 2022, (great name btw.) It's largely their thing, so this ship is confined almost entirely to Wattpad, but I've also seen some other fans write Heathsé on there. In a lot of their fic, Alejandro is with Tyler, so this allows that to happen while still keeping Heather around. Kinda fascinating that with Aletyler being a major pairing in the fandom now, José is shipped with Heather too. Would've never happened on 2013 TD Tumblr! Or at least it would've gotten a lot of pushback/been extremely niche/without the context of how big Aletyler got post-2020.

Nosé: Was coined this year on Tumblr I think. I want to see more unironic Nosé in the future, it's hilarious. Again, fascinating that with Alenoah being a major, major pairing in the fandom now, José is shipped with Noah too. I guess Alejandro wasn't good enough? Lmao. Again, would've never happened without Alenoah getting big in 2021 or so.

[tricksterlatte]

I've always been fascinated by fandom history, and I know I'm not the only one. It's interesting to see how fans of pop culture can create a culture of their own, and in the modern age of social media and the internet in general, that culture is as widespread as ever. Unfortunately, that also means downsides are becoming bigger as this culture becomes widespread, and it's saddening to watch, maybe even concerning.

I don't discuss these things to be preachy, especially considering how I've fallen into several of these pitfalls before, and have perpetuated some of this behavior in the past. To say otherwise would make me a hypocrite and a liar, and I firmly believe this goes for most people in any fandom. I was just thinking about this recently, and how a lot of the biggest stressors in what should be our stress relief really can be pinned mostly into a few central talking points, which I would love to discuss to know if I'm not just going crazy here

The concept of Big Name Fan has evolved into a position of authority on fandom, which does not fall to anyone regarding subjectivity. No one in a fandom is an authority except the creators themselves, who have every right to stay away from the fandoms they have birthed.

Popularity in general being conflated to intellectual authority as well, especially on websites with public stats, particularly following counts. The algorithm is no benevolent god, but people will sometimes see someone with 30k followers and think they are correct on a minor non-issue that has spiraled into discourse, especially when compared to someone with 30 followers. This also is just...a bummer when fanon evolves into perceived canon, and newcomers to the fandom can't post even innocuous meta or headcanons without it being perceived as morally/intellectually incorrect.

Monetization of fanworks, but especially zines, have led to a hypercompetitive atmosphere that only escalates the bitterness and resentment. This is not a universal problem, but many zines across all fandoms habitually accept the same artists and writers, or diminish the value of fanfic due to the limitations of physical printing. The application process has devolved into such a disheartening debacle for a majority of people I see, and the way it is often framed as "your work just wasn't good enough" when it's really about what the mods deem mass marketable will destroy just about anyone's self-esteem after repetitive rejections, and will give some frequent zine runners a false sense of final say over the community (not usually, but it can happen).

The level of distrust for anyone new attempting to start a fan project is just so depressing nowadays (and this one we sadly can blame on a few people by name, but the ones who have sent this issue spiraling still don't care and that just sucks. I feel horrible for everyone who has been tricked).

Somehow comment and anonymous asks have gone backwards from "don't feed the trolls" to "suck it up, at least you're getting comments." I have seen some of these comments people have been told to suck up. It's not okay in general. It's particularly gross when it's an anonymous hate message unrelated to the fanworks themselves, perhaps born out of resentment or bearing an ulterior motive. And some will even attack and defame character due to identity. It's not subtle. It's not okay. People should absolutely be dunked on for this, and I gotta say I'm sick of unsolicited concrit being enforced as positive either. If they didn't ask, don't give it. There's a reason a lot of fic writers some people adore suddenly go ghost, and they can't even talk about it.

Don't like, don't read has been discarded in favor of don't like, tell others don't read and also don't write. Transformative works don't have to fit into a canon or even in character mold. That's why they're transformative! It's a different type of artistic expression. If you don't like it, chances are good it simply wasn't meant for you. It's not bad. Don't shame others, god especially not for non-issues such as a t/b preference or a different gender hc, preferred haircuts, types of animal you imagine them as in another lifetime, I could list literally anything here and I bet there has been a fandom fight over it.

Exclusive yet publicly advertised community Discords that will bar you from invite if you're not one of the cool kids. I have unfortunately fallen into this trap before, and refuse to ever enable or endorse that behavior ever again. This isn't about friend groups either, it's about fandom-dedicated servers that flaunt themselves as a VIP club instead of what they are: a friend group. I also don't even know how to broach the subject of private accounts that turn into fandom tea accounts with dozens if not hundreds of followers, only for people to be angry if someone isn't exactly okay with horrific stuff being said in general, let alone about their mutuals or friends.

I know none of this will likely ever change, and tbh i'm so tired of it all, but...does anyone else know what I mean? I'm stressed out whenever I try to enjoy myself, because popularity and a strange business mindset is steadily taking over fandom spaces. I'm not saying people should stop trying to make stuff that sells, or that people universally do any of this, but fandom is evolving into a thing I'm not sure is good. idk anymore

[iri-desky]

OKAY SO. *GRABS YOUR SHOULDERS* ELEVATOR HITCH FANDOM!!

WITH NOWORKER GETTING POPULAR, AS A MULTISHIPPER I'M ELATED! THIS IS SUPER COOL AND I LOVE TO SEE THE FANDOM GET CREATIVE. BUT ALSO AS A MULTISHIPPER, IT'S MY DUTY TO REMIND YOU ALL OF THE OTHER SHIP YOU DON'T REMEMBER...AND NO, IT'S NOT COTAG!

It's Notag. Normal Guy x Protag.

I feel like the two have such an interesting dynamic and a potential for some great development we never saw in-game; given that Normal Guy only appears at the end of the game, it gives the opportunity for lots of creative post-game writing, from world building to extra character development. With the nervous guy with religious trauma & the dubiously human, dubiously monster, chipper man with angel allegories. It holds such a cool concept; the chipper normal guy, who's whole life is dedicated to his work and is implied to be created in the sole drive of such, with an eye on the nervous Protagonist who does not want to be here and desire autonomy, who's life is dedicated to LIVING. Just...living. He chose this job to live, because he needs it. He doesn't want to lose control and doesn't submit as easily as others, or grovel under his heel, and it fascinates the strange entity known as a "Normal Guy". Protagonist just barely managed to fly under the radar and dodge the bullet that was losing his identity, and Normal Guy was interested in it. Of course, there is no place for a life or feelings in work! It must be dedicated to his company, so some adjustments have to be made-- though, not as harshly as he had to somr other unruly employees-- it's almost like he's observing a specific rat in a lab experiment for it's unique behavior. He likes this specific rat. Protagonist amuses Normal Guy--perhaps this CEO doesnt care a lot, though he does indeed care sometimes; although, besides how valuable they are to the company, the only individual he finds fascinating regardless of Level is Protagonist. Protagonist hates Normal Guy and is just scared of him, yet braves his gaze every day at work--every last day. Yet, again, the man is intriguing to him--what even IS he? He's intimidating to him. He's constantly confused by Normal Guy, from how offhand his way of thinking is to all the weird things he says--"Are Your Lungs Working Alright?". To the typically logical Protagonist, he just wants to figure out this monster before said monster figures him out. But he doesn't want to care about Normal Guy. He'd rather die again than see his face again.

Protagonist sees Normal Guy as some weird monster trying to control his life, and Normal Guy sees Protagonist as a new, strange, and interesting addition to the rat race.

And to see their interactions evolve would be so cool, man. There's so much potential.

THAT'S IT I'M DONE *rips my hands off your shoulders*

[welurklate]

In defence of Ron Weasley - or: why Weasley is our King!

I have noticed that in the last decade so-called Ron-bashing has almost become a sport in the Harry Potter fandom, or at least in certain corners of the fandom. And that makes me quite sad, because in my eyes it is unjustified and a product of circumstances that have nothing to do with the canon character. People depict Ron as a laughing stock, a truly incompetent wizard who is nothing but jealous and petty. Even in fanfics where Ron is an adult he rarely outgrows his teenage character. I believe this has to do with a few thing I will get into here.

First and foremost, we have to take a stance and decide if we believe that redemption is possible or not. If you think that once a fruit shows signs of rot it is better to throw out than to salvage it, stop reading here. If you think there are parts that can be saved and possibly restored, you are probably a Draco fan as well 😉 and you're welcome to read on.

So first of all, everything we see the characters do in the books they do as children and teenagers. Adolesence is a time of great changes, physically and psychologically. The prefrontal lobe of our brain still develops until our mid-twenties. It is a time to experiment and to make decisions, even if they are objectively the wrong ones, and to learn from that and to evolve into well-adjusted, open-minded and self-reflecting adults. So it isn’t even necessary to ‘redeem’ oneself for what you did growing up, it is just imperative to evolve. I have been working with teenagers my whole professional life and I am always amazed by what happens between the ages of 10 and 20/25.

So Ron is a child in the first books and an adolescent in the final parts and we actually see him grow and evolve. Not everyone is as perfect as Hermione and we sometimes forget that people can be flawed in small ways (not only in big ways such as ‘oops, I’ve taken the dark mark and commit war crimes’). I think people tend to hate on Ron because of this. He is so normal in his jealousy and his envy. We see a lot of ourselves in him and that is uncomfortable. We turn to fiction to experience the extraordinary in both good and bad, but we rarely want to see our very common shortcomings reflected in the characters. Because then we could just read self-help books and do something about it. But we don’t. We just want to escape reality and enter into worlds where everything is starker in contrast, emotions are deeper and stakes are higher.

And Ron is not such a character. He is a mild grey. He is not the hero, but he is also not the villain. Ambiguity and nuance have very little place in fantasy. But I think that is exactly what makes Ron such a great character and the books (despite JKR’s bigotism) so fascinating.

So what I see people do in fanfiction is to push his character to the extremes – mostly make him an antagonist. Interestingly, this usually occurs in in Dramione or Harmony fics. In Drarry fics or others where Hermione and Ron stay together, he usually gets to grow up into a reasonable and well-adjusted adult. And I get it. I love Hermione and I get what she sees in Ron (stability, a deep understanding, loyalty, common values, a wise mind that complements her academic one etc.). But in stories where we pair Hermione with other people we need to get Ron out of the way. Because we cannot, for the love of Merlin, make Hermione be the problematic one in the relationship (she is the queen of the books - she cannot be touched). So of course we have to make sure that Ron is the reason why their relationship fails. And to make their breakup believable, we antagonize Ron so that there is no chance for them to get back together. From a storytelling viewpoint this makes absolute sense. But it does not do Ron’s character justice. Canon Ron is a truly amazing character. The movies did him dirty and depicted him as the slightly stupid one with the punch lines and this has often clouded our image of him. Book Ron holds much more power in the trio's friendship. He is the one who introduces Hermione and Harry to all things in the Wizarding World. He is smart – even though he is not as zealous as Hermione, he is a good student and a brilliant wizard’s chess player. He is genuine, kind and loyal. I won’t reiterate all the smart things people have said about his character before. If you are interested you can check some good arguments here:

here, here or here

Everything he is and everything he goes through makes him a hero in his own way. He is the character with the biggest development and the biggest potential. He overcomes his own shortcomings again and again to stay by Harry's side. Especially in the last books he struggles, makes decisions he deeply regrets and faces his insecurities.

I could go on and on about this… but leave it at this for now. I hope this makes you see Ron in a better light! Fight me in the comments or sing along my praise of Ron!

tl;dr: Ron is a truly interesting character but the movies and fanon have skewed his image in a negative way.

[fancifulpurposelesslovely]

hello!! I have newly joined the summer sons fandom and if you are in the mood to do some character extrapolation, I’m so curious to know how/if you see Sam and Andrew’s ~dynamic~ progressing post-canon? I read your exchange about the canonical power dynamics between them with another user and I found both of your viewpoints fascinating and insightful so like if it would be fun for you I’d love to hear more! Do you think they ever explicitly acknowledge it between each other? Who do you think brings it up if so? I feel like Andrew would have some complicated shame-adjacent feelings to work through based on what he internalized from Eddie as “appropriate masculinity” if anyone like made him explicitly acknowledge how much he gets out of and enjoys casual submission, but I can’t get a handle on how Sam would think about it? I also feel like Andrew would rather die than bring it up at least in terms of where he is at with his communication skills immediately post-canon. Idk! If it would be interesting for you to think it talk about I would love to hear your thoughts!!

Pretty much one of my favorite topics in general, anon! Just wanted to wait until I had time to sit down at a real keyboard for this.

So I've definitely tried to think about how their relationship and any dynamic might evolve post-canon, and I've got a very quick post on the subject:

And this is largely still my main opinion. I think they're very intelligent and wild and very specifically sheltered in a way that Riley had to break out of for his own sanity a lot earlier than Sam or Andrew did. So Riley would either buy a couple of books online or get some from a library or something, leave them in a bag on Andrew's bed with a note, and hope they never had to speak about Andrew's relationship with Riley's cousin ever again. He might also beg Ethan to jump in and be another source of information on the gays and the intricacies of kink stuff. Not because Ethan is necessarily an expert or involved himself, I think he would just find it interesting and wouldn't have the personal squick about Sam.

(For the record, I think Riley would grab The New Topping Book and The New Bottoming Book by Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy and Paradigms of Power and Negotiating Your Power Dynamic Relationship by Raven Kaldera to start. Or at least, those authors are where I tend to start.)

I do think the almost breaking each other and the general fucking up will be an important part of it all because these boys are not naturally drawn to lengthy verbal communication about their wants, desires, and issues. A lot of it would be done by feel, by vibe, by following body language. Assumptions, wrestling that starts playful and gets to be more, setting up mutual unspoken expectations for each other, then getting pissed/hurt when the other person didn't live up to them 100% of the time because they didn't really know they were supposed to. Sam being slightly too critical of Andrew on a day where Sam is tired and overwhelmed and Andrew is a little fragile, not realizing Andrew would hold onto that for days because Sam "didn't think his opinion mattered that much." (no no that's not personal experience talking, ofc not). Andrew getting in the habit of grabbing Sam refills or new drinks or being the runner for different party chores, then one night just not having the energy or not feeling appreciated and just refusing to do it. Sam and Andrew both not understanding why Sam got so annoyed about it and why their relationship cools down for a couple of days. Little shit like this that's fairly visible from the outside if either of them has a tendency to bitch about it or if you share a living room with them on a regular basis.

I think they do eventually talk about it (this might not be in character for canon and I may have just decided because I want them to, but I'm sticking with it.) I think Andrew would probably read a couple of chapters of the books Riley gave him, panic about it, ignore them for weeks, try again, repeat cycle. I agree that he would have a lot of hang-ups around masculinity and being "like that", but I also think he'd recognize himself and recognize parts of his relationship with Eddie. He'd eventually see that what he and Eddie had been together had been really unhealthy, and maybe it could have been something better and stronger and real, if either of them had ever figured out how to talk about it.

Eventually though, stuff would resonate enough that he'd feel the need to talk to Sam, or he'd be weird about stuff for weeks and Sam would tell him to spill or get over it. So Andrew would bring the books over and try to talk about what Riley had pointed out or what parts of the books were speaking to him, and they'd alternate Andrew being stubborn and recalcitrant and blushy/interested, and Sam would probably laugh it off at first but when that clearly hurt Andrew's feelings, he'd try to hear him out. Sam would chase the blushes and the interest, but he'd probably have complicated feelings about being explicitly asked to lead Andrew in this way. On the one hand I think it would feel like another responsibility that he's being asked to shoulder, but on the other I think he could come to recognize that this is the kind of relationship he wants and that he's wanted to build before without having the words for it. And I think he would recognize what it does for Andrew and what Andrew' submission could mean for him (Sam). Picking up one responsibility in exchange for being able to put down others. Feeling cared for and appreciated even as he cares for Andrew.

I think after talking about it they'd still fuck up sometimes. I think they'd still feel weird about drawn out explicit negotiations and there would be a lot of joking and a little arguing and maybe substances to get through some of those vulnerable conversations. It would take time and patience.

One of my fics gives a pretty explicit example of how I think kink/power would play into their relationship later (be warned, it's entirely a piss kink fic, we blame mark.) Another fic plays a little bit more with the abstract and the subtle undertones.

Did this answer the question? I went all over the place with it. Thanks for giving me reasons to think about it again!!!