#like you can definitely interpret everything through the lens of personal romantic relationships BUT. i think its even better

[atissi]

okay very preliminary thoughts on mitski's new album BUT i think there's something with how "laurel hell" felt like a goodbye to the music industry (can't find the source but i remember reading that it was intended to be her last album under her contract) like i'm sorry anthony fantano but if you interpret the back half of "laurel hell" as being generic breakup songs you're missing like 80% of the context. to me TO ME it feels so clearly about her negotiating her relationship with fame, how she can't love her fans the way they love her, and how she feels like she sold her soul to her job, so the only thing to do is step away. but THEN "the land is inhospitable and so are we" was created after mitski decided to renegotiate her contract, specifically because she loved making music enough to deal with the negative aspects of the work. and then all the songs are about the ghost of love she can leave behind, despite the present pain or emptiness, and like. do you see it. do you see it.

[thetaekookcloset]

Probably gonna get hate for this and I’m not even 100% convinced myself that they’re actually in a romantic relationship because obviously we don’t really know shit lol, but if it turned out that they’re just best friends and their relationship is and has always been just purely platonic, I’d definitely accuse them of queer baiting… 🙃

I feel like there’s a line that they’ve crossed with each other and their antics for it to be just two friends being cute and performing. They know that there’s a huge fan base and they see what people talk online and they are constantly adding fuel to the fire themselves by being very touchy touchy with each other (way more so than with any other member tho I’m sure other shippers would highly disagree lol), making comments about each other, mentioning private vacations and everything that is taekook. We see antis commenting that they hate being shipped and it makes them uncomfortable and that one Weverse answer by Tae is some sort of a passage from a bible to them, but obviously we’ve never gotten any actual denial from them as far as I know, they haven’t changed their behaviors at all and that answer the antis keep holding on to for dear life can be interpreted in many ways. But obviously they wouldn’t deny anything if everything is only fanservice, because that would be bad for business and in the end, they are part of a multi billion dollar industry. 🙃

Obviously they don’t owe anyone any answers about their personal lives and in a way they’re definitely not responsible for all the shippers, but then again, I feel like on some level they kinda are because their behavior encourages the fans to keep going. 🫠

Well I'm not going to hate on you, anon, and I would hope that no one else will either, but I disagree with you.  In my opinion, it's not up to us or anyone else to determine what is and is not an appropriate level of touchiness between two people who are friends or otherwise.

I've said it before and I stand by it: calling anything any of the members do "baiting" is too much in my opinion.  It's true that they know shippers exist and some things will always be interpreted through that lens by some people, but it's also true that no matter what they do and how frequently they demonstrate their closeness, there will always be people who see them as uncomfortable with each other.  So why wouldn't they just interact in whatever way that comes naturally to them?  Why should they or would they change the way they act within the boundaries already set for them, just based on how some fans will interpret it? Personally, I obviously feel that the way they act makes it seem likely that they're romantically involved, but as I said earlier, they haven't done anything to make that reading overt and unavoidable.

This isn't a "gay for pay" kind of scenario because none of the members have ever gone that far.  There's also the fact that, regardless of whether any of them are involved with each other specifically, any number of them may not be straight and could still be expressing their platonic bonds in ways that read to some people as queer because they are -- ways that come naturally to them, are genuine, are platonic, and are queer, because queer people have friends and those friendships don't always look the same as friendships between straight people.

As far as getting a denial from them goes, it seems to be policy not to address intra-group relationships (aka shipping) at all. It's not like there have been denials for Sope or Namjin either. I imagine there are a number of reasons for this, first and foremost being that shipping is good for business, and I imagine this would be the policy whether any of these relationships was actually real or not. This is a big part of why I personally have never taken Taehyung's Weverse comment as being against shipping.

I understand your feelings about them potentially baiting the ship specifically, and we really don't know enough for me to tell you there's no way that's the case -- maybe it is for all I know.  For me, though, I'd rather assume better of people until I know otherwise, for one thing.  More than that, whether or not Tae and JK are together, I feel pretty confident in my guess that neither of them are straight, so I personally would feel a lot less comfortable accusing either of them of any kind of baiting, even if it did turn out that they were never involved with each other in particular.

Besides all of that, a lot of their most telling moments have always been the ones just barely caught on camera, or not shown at all and we just hear about them later.  How can I consider it baiting for them to act close on cam if we know that they act close off cam too?  Not to mention the subtlety of a lot (not all, of course) of what they do.  It's hard to consider the subtle stuff baiting, and I feel like there's a lot more of that over the years.  Add to all of that the fact that if they're not literally onstage at the time, there's no real, direct benefit to any of this.  They're just as likely to gather criticism as they are praise, which makes it seem that much more likely to me that whatever interactions they have, at least off stage, they have primarily for their own benefit.

Of course, these are all my opinions.  You're entitled to yours and to your feelings.  I'm not trying to tell you that you can't feel the way you do, only to explain why I personally wouldn't feel that way.  Either way, we're talking about a hypothetical future scenario where we not only find out their relationship status, but also know the details of what it's always been, and it seems unlikely that that will ever happen.

[nightswithkookmin]

From Jimin: To the hyungs Jungkook is just my little brother...

I have no idea what that says. But if this is what he said, then definitely it leaves room for interpretation because it's an incomplete statement. You don't need to know the nuances of the language to understand that that statement is a sentence fragment that expresses an incomplete thought on the surface of it.

The omission of a second clause implies the opposite of what was said in the first. It's as simple as that.

The question anyone would ask upon hearing that is, so... he's more? Or, so he's not your little brother?

Makes sense...

But I've seen other translations such as, to the hyungs JK is like my little brother and in other instance, Jk is our little brother etc.

Makes you wonder if these interpretations took the context of the conversation into consideration or even why Jimin would make such a statement in the first place in their attempts to provide nuance.

"SUGA: Jungkook is good at everything

J-hope: Jungkook always surprises us. he changed his style recently!

Jimin: The hyungs all think he's like my actual little brother.

V: Jungkook is good at keeping his focus

JK: Everything about Jungkook is pretty!"

It's Jungkook from the members' lens.

When you interpret Jimin's bit within this context then it's more likely he is trying to highlight his dynamic with Jungkook more than anything, mainly to the effect that Jungkook is perhaps obedient, likeable, sweet, puppy etc.

Comparing Jungkook to his actual little brother is a compliment and perhaps has a much deeper meaning than mere friendships in my opinion. It shows just how close, more than co workers they are, how more than friends they are, how really close they are.

I don't know why shippers shy away from comparisons to family bond when in fact the bond of family is the greatest bond one could ever have.

BTS do have a habit of liking their bond to that of family- and they love to show that bond off.

It's interesting seeing Jikook through the lens of the members when most times the bond of those two are invalidated, watered down and downplayed.

Everyone would have us believe Jikook are sworn enemies from rival states. So however you wanna interpret what he said, there's value in taking things at face value. You don't need to do too too much with it to try to get its meaning across because then that would be analysis and analysis are always subjective and subject to our own confirmation biases.

To the hyungs, he's like my little brother, he is just my little brother, he's like our little brother- all have the same sentiment if taken from the perspective of that whatever JM said was intended as a compliment to Jungkook.

Perhaps Jungkook treats JM just like a younger brother would a Hyung- given the culture of respect between hyung/dongsaengs, given the way hyungs are expected to take care of their dongsaengs, given the emphasis BTS places on their bond, honorifics culture...

Perhaps he means, Jungkook treats me in such a way you'd think he were my actual younger brother- a theme which to me is in line with that whole Jimin treats me better than my own brother does or the numerous times he's compared him to his own brother or something along those lines.

They love eachother very much. Whether that is platonic or romantic is up for debate but I don't think after this anyone can invalidate their bond or gaslight is into thinking those two aren't close at all.

If the members see them as this close then it really puts an end to this whole Jungkook is uncomfortable with Jimin nonsense.

The busan bros, the busans, the sun and moon duo, the exceptionally close pair, the hyungs all think Jungkook is like my actual little brother etc

They all have a similar vibe to me.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't care much about the nuances of the language in this context or in any context to be honest as the intention behind the text is pretty obvious💀

To me he is either providing the hyungs' perspective to affirm his dynamic with Jungkook or to affirm all that he's been saying of his dynamic with JK which is that JK is like a little brother to him just as he repeated in Festa.

To highlight and affirm their bond or to compliment Jungkook like the other's were in this instance.

This is the diagram some Karny drew to explain the nuances of the text.

And here I thought I was extra chilee.

I'm not mad at this. Love when a moment brings out the delulu in yall's eyes😭🤣🤣

I don't know why we are hung on Jimin's words out of all the statements that were made trying to dissect and over analyse it.

On one hand I feel some people are over sensationalizing while others are just plain invalidating Jikook's bonds- especially over something Jimin of all people would say.

He slick slick. I'll give him that. And he loves him some double entendres. But he's also usually the one to use dictum that makes it easier for his words and meaning to be translated- if they get translated. So it's fascinating to see the confusion his words are creating out in these streets. It really ain't that deep if you ask me chilee.

Alas, we are all adults and we all have different perspectives on these things. I'd say, find a source you trust based on their track record and stick with it. Do your own analysis or seek out others' perspectives on it. This is mine and how I take it- regardless of what any Karmy says😊

My delusions are mine and mine alone. No disrespect to Karmy. In fact, yall great people doing great holding it down for the gays🤭

Also disclaimer, I'm not a translator and any translation used here isn't mine.

In conclusion,

Hyuna screws her dongsaeng and Rain fucks his Noona. Dead that whole Jikook womb mates shit before I lay my paws on ya.

Please pls Jikook is louder than this🙄

Jeonlous counts. Keep your wokeness yo yourself please. You must be in the wrong industry if you think you have to live by a code of ethic in these ship streets.

There is no ethical nor moderate consumption of ships under shipping. There is nothing like ethical or moderate shipping for the holier than thou shippers in the back.

We all ghetto ma'am. You might as well go all out😴

My favorite line from their song though is when Hyuna sings, "I'm finna tell my father about us and pledge eternity to you. You have to be careful always though, there are lots of pretty girls out there. We have to tell the world, I can't share you with another girl."

Eventually they told the world🤭

Their careers suffered but they did it anyway.

Please no nondelusional, fake woke, moderate shipper person should tell it to me when I talk about Jungkook's frustration to come out with their relationship and come act like it's illogical hence implausible for him to want to come out etc😒

I like my delulu perspective better😌

Peace.

GOLDY

[orlandoblumhouseofguccimane]

I’m gonna say something that a lot of people are probably not gonna like, for different reasons, about the Loki series, but please here me out.

I wanna talk about the dialogue surrounding Loki and Sylvie’s relationship. I’m going to address the principles in which I, personally, think we should handle dialogues with opposing views and try to provide some general insight into how each side processes the dynamic. The most simple and brute way I can put it is, Don’t Tell People What To Do Or How To Feel. This dynamic that we see now is actually not as common as you think and that’s why we see such diverse opinions on Loki and Sylvie’s relationship to each other. Some people see their dynamic romantically, and some see it familial. Each has valid reasons for feeling that way, therein lies the conflict. And no, most people who see their dynamic as romantic are not pro-incest (🤢that’s disgusting). I want to break down the fundamental reasons why people reach the conclusions they do, that may make them reject other peoples opinions on this matter. I can’t speak for everybody but I’m trying to sum up the general opinions I’ve seen.

For the people who see the dynamic romantically and want to see that dynamic portrayed further, the thing that’s getting lost in translation is, it’s processed as a masturbatory natured act. A journey into self love if you will but with a physical manifestation. I feel that if you were to ask the people who want the romance plot, whether they would fuck their clone or not, they’d say yes because of the same reasoning. It’s masturbatory in nature and a representation of self love with a side a ego. On the emotional side, for Loki specifically, his grandeur and ego/vanity, whatever you want to call it, hides someone who is insecure, starved for positive reinforcement, vastly misunderstood, and feels that they have something to prove. Layers and layers of trauma and defense mechanisms. If this was in a romantic connotation, Loki possibly could find some catharsis in having an intimate relationship with someone who understands him truly, isn’t going to pressure him to change, and accept them for who they truly are, which is something Loki has never had, while also coming to truly love and appreciate all that he is, including his vulnerability by seeing those traits represented outside himself and being attracted to those same traits. A ‘I can’t judge your vulnerability so maybe I shouldn’t judge mine’ type perspective. I don’t think it’s hard for the other side to see how people could have an emotional investment in Loki x Sylvie as a couple if what I described the possible emotional catharsis could be, resonates with what they want in their own lives.

Everything I’ve said so far is valid. And can be a beautiful story telling moment if done right. Now onto the next perspective. The people who see their dynamic through a familial lens have a different interpretation of the nature of the Loki identity as individual people. Likening them to siblings and/or twins due to their “shared parentage” and “shared blood”. Also valid. But I must say that most of the conflict comes from this perspective as they are the ones to specifically ask of other people not to ship them. I can understand how someone seeing a dynamic that processes as obviously familial may make that person feel vastly uncomfortable by seeing people ship them. I can liken that feeling to how I felt when I found out people shipped Thorki (🤮). Some people find it the same but if we’re being fair, it is not. Thor and Loki are adopted siblings, no two ways around that. But given the not so black n white nature of the multiverse/variants we cannot unanimously say they (Loki & Sylvie) are definitively siblings. But if you choose (or naturally) see and value this familial dynamic, the story has the opportunity to be just as rich and fulfilling for both Loki and Sylvie in an incredibly beautiful way. I feel that on the emotional side of the people who advocate for the familial bond, the dynamic loki and sylvie share of chaotic energy, playful teasing, sobering discussions while also insulting/jabbing at one another, humor and hostility, reminds them of their own siblings or familial bonds. Which is an incredibly valuable thing that you cannot knock. But even if they don’t have that dynamic personally, my point still stands for that as a fantastic sibling dynamic. Or maybe even just as ‘best friends’.

But as far as trying to tell people their wrong and/or immoral for shipping them and telling people “Don’t” is unfair due to the complex nature of the Loki identity and variant logic that hasn’t fully been unfolded to us yet. Neither side is “right”, it’s simply interpretation. I’ve seen people fail to acknowledge or refuse to acknowledge that not everything has a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ and different interpretations and opinions, even opposite ones, are equal and can coexist peacefully. Not everything is a grave moral issue. We need to keep the hostile energy for the shit that really matters not fictional shit.

On a personal note: Idgaf I just want lokius, thanks for letting me rant lmao

[alorenawrites]

On Words and Meaning

So I've been thinking a lot about how Loki is being discussed and the words used, particularly by Hiddleston, given his bent for using literary language in his descriptions. There are three words I want to touch on in this little post, one of them definitely rooted in his usage.

So the first I want to touch on is the term "romance." We've heard (often from Hiddleston), that Loki is, at heart, a romance. I think there's a dimension of the discussion missing in these conversations in that is important to consider.

To the layman, a romance is simply a love story, sometimes with a sexual undertone. But in the literary sense, a romance is a much deeper genre. I want to consider that this layer may also be present in Hiddleston's intent on using the term in describing the story arc. It certainly is in mine, as someone with a fascination with literary form and also with an English degree who has spent way too much time exploring genre.

So firstly, we need to define "romance." From literaryterms.net:

I. What is Romance?

In the strictest academic terms, a romance is a narrative genre in literature that involves a mysterious, adventurous, or spiritual story line where the focus is on a quest that involves bravery and strong values, not always a love interest. However, modern definitions of romance also include stories that have a relationship issue as the main focus.

II. Examples of Romance

In the academic sense, an example of a romance is a story in which the main character is a hero who must conquer various challenges as part of a quest. Each challenge could be its own story and can be taken out of the overall story without harming the plot.

Example 1

A knight who wishes to prove himself by recovering a stolen heirloom from an enemy may find himself attempting to make his way through a dangerous wood filled with thieves.

Once he has accomplished this challenge, he may find himself climbing a tall mountain on which a group of people are in trouble. He would save the group somehow, and then move on.

Then the final stage: the enemy’s kingdom. There may be a fair maiden whom he meets and somehow helps or rescues, or perhaps she helps him.

But the fair maiden is not the focus of the story – his quest is the focus. Each story can be taken out, yet each builds the hero’s strength to face his final quest. These stories tend to be serious rather than humorous and touch on strong values.

In considering this, I've thought about Loki's arc as a quest that does, indeed, involve the discovery and exploration of strong values with a three part quest, though I don't think the quests entirely stand on their own. The overarching theme is about Loki discovering his sense of self- his quest to become a full person, not just a trope for the universe to exploit so others can reach their better selves. I divide the show up in to three quests. The first, in episodes 1 and 2, is Loki finding a sense of purpose in the new world- his quest is to discover who this new variant is and where they are hiding. This is resolved by the end of that second episode. The second arc takes place in the next two episodes- Loki discovering his empathy for others is the continuation of the overarching personal development plot, while his quest is to discover Sylvie's goals and to uncover/share the truth behind the TVA. And in our third section, episodes 5 and 6, we get the culmination of the personal growth arc in his ultimate discovery of different facets of himself (illuminated by the different elements of self shown in the multitude of variant Lokis) while the quest is to uncover who is in control of the Sacred Timeline and why. The differences in colour palettes, settings, tones, etc. between the three episode pairings is a part of how I started to distinguish my thoughts on each. And regardless of the visual distinctions, I most definitely see the entire arc as exploring strong values and bravery, though the bravery is multi-layered, showing not only the visible bravery of facing down an apocalypse, Alioth, etc., but the internal bravery of challenging one's self and digging deep into discovering who one really is. This is a theme of queerness that I see lingering in this series- discovering who we are is a process, not an outcome.

I think that this definition of a romance, in the classical sense, is a little oversimplified, as there is often a theme of discovery of self or improvement of self along the way. In a Gothic romance, themes of "the people are the real monsters" come into play (Crimson Peak is an excellent example of this)- there may be elements of the supernatural, but the real thing of which the viewer/reader should be afraid is the person behind the curtain. Gothic romances also often do include a love story arc, but it is often deeply flawed on some level and often also includes some sort of sexual or romantic awakening, often by a female lead, that leads to the discovery of whatever darker is taking place (Crimson Peak turns this on its head in that it is Thomas' awakening with Edith that leads to his turning point and Edith's realization that the Sharpe siblings are the monsters, not the ghosts in the hall). The themes of discovery of self, or of the fortitude of moral values, or of the journey of a person's development, play into both a Gothic romance and its foundations in a classical romance.

So. There's part 1 of this ramble.

On to part 2!

The next word I want to examine is the term "relationship" and its companion, "love." Now, mind you, I come at this from a queer perspective as a demisexual, demiromantic individual, so these two words are ones I've spent a LOT of time pondering, in the quest to define my own identity.

We've heard the term "relationship" tossed around so often with only a romantic implication attached, but in truth, this word is so much more broad than this. You are in a relationship with your barber. You are in a relationship with your cat. You are in a relationship with a spiritual advisor, a professor, your best friend, your partner. Just because it is so heavily used in this way doesn't mean the relationship is only an intimate one (though intimate relationships are also not inherently sexual or romantic in nature, either, so let's remember this as well). Now if we break down what a relationship is, it's just a consistent interaction with someone based on some common interest or goal. It's a remarkably benign word. Its connotations, however, take it in a multitude of directions.

So let's look at it through the lens of an intimate relationship and add in the component of love. We'll start with just a blanket statement that love is not only one single thing. It isn't just romantic. It is our family, our friends, our pets, pie, the colour blue, that feeling of perfection when the waves of a warm lake brush over your calves...love is embedded in the experiences of these things. We love them. Love it as vast and broad as relationships. We love places, people, things, and experiences. We love ourselves (or we try to learn to).

In my world, through my particular brand of queerness, love changes in intimate relationships on a regular basis. I love my partner dearly. But on some days, that love is to my best friend, while other days, it is a romantic love and on others, sexual expression may be involved, but they may overlap in different ways. Sexual expression is independent of romantic attraction and the degree of each isn't tied together in any way. If we can separate these things, I think we can see the relationships in our everyday lives in different lights and with greater complexity.

I also think that looking at these things through the lens of diverse sexual and romantic experiences can inform how we interpret the Loki x Sylvie pairing and why some of us just aren't bothered by it (though certainly not the only reason people aren't).

We've been told Loki loves Sylvie. That much is beautifully clear. But love (and being in a relationship) doesn't automatically mean that 1) both parties are experiencing it in the same way, 2) both parties have the same approach or priorities, 3) the level of romance is necessarily the same between the people involved, 4) that sexual attraction exists at all.

Sometimes a kiss is a form of communication and not tied to the want to shag someone.

So this is where my interpretation of this particular pairing comes into play. I do see the story as a romance, in the classical sense, but also with a slight streak of the more modern sense involved. The focus is still on the quest, even when the love story emerges. And that is where I see the priorities of these characters and their definitions of the relationship differing and I analyze it through these different dimensions of love and relationship orientations.

Loki actually embodies one of the traits I've seen listed for demisexuals- we hold our friendships extremely close and because we hold our friendships the way we do, it isn't uncommon for us to end up with crushes on our best friends (and no, they don't generally develop into other forms of relationships, but they could). This is the phase in which I see Loki by episode 6. He has formed this intense bond, unlike any other it seems he's had, and his heart is breaking over the thought of losing her to her own rage. All he wants is for her to be OK, remember? This isn't a selfish action. But I think it is significant that while he tries to stop her, he's not the one who initiates the kiss. All his actions here are ones that a close friend would also do for their best friend. Like, I'd try to stop my besties from inadvertently destroying the universe. I'd even throw down over it. And for the exact same reasons- the risks are too great, we need to think, and I want them to be OK. Almost everything Loki does throughout his growing closeness to Sylvie is something I'd do for one of the people I've told I'd defend- as in, I literally told some of these people, "anybody messes with you, I'll cut a bitch- just tell me who and I'm there."

So because of all this, I don't see this relationship as sexual in any way. Romantic? Possibly. But not necessarily. Even being in love with one another doesn't mean a relationship has to have a sexual component.

Looking at Sylvie, I see her also as having found companionship with Loki, but her overriding goal is, ultimately, not to bond with someone- it's her mission. And she has sacrificed her entire life because of the TVA to this mission. She tells him repeatedly, in one way or another, that the mission comes first. Yes, she does care about him, but I don't think the way she cares about him is the same as the way he cares about her because they have differing priorities and needs (and hence why she feels betrayed by him when he tries to stop her). Or at least she hasn't allowed herself to express that. When she falls to the ground after she's killed He Who Remains, I think we get a glimpse of what Loki meant to her- she is alone, she grieves, and there is no meaning left to her story. She's done what she dedicated her entire life to and the person who could have given it other meaning is no longer beside her.

I still don't think that the first thing they would do upon seeing each other is suck face and have wild sex. Would that bother me? No, not really. I can headcanon something different than what actually happens, I'm fine with that (just look at all this glorious headcanoning happening right here!) I'd like it to stay a romantic friendship (queer platonic relationships for the win- they're squishes!) because I don't think we hardly ever see those types of relationships and queer platonic relationships are incredibly beautiful and powerful and yes, based on love and maybe even romance, in their own way. They are defined by the people in them, as are all relationships.

And now to address "but she kissed him!"

Yes, she did. And I've kissed my partner when there wasn't romance involved because I wanted to share a moment, to express something deeper than I had words for (yes, even on one of my aromantic leaning days), or just because it's fun. And it doesn't have to "match" up with how the other partner feels it, either, so long as the message itself is what comes across. This is how I read the Sylvie x Loki kiss. It was a message of worthiness. Loki's entire arc, including in that scene, is in discovering if he's anyone different than the monster he's made himself out to be (and encouraged others to see him as). He tells Sylvie that he can't be trusted, falling back on the habit of characterizing himself as the professional liar, the one who can't form those attachments which are built on trust. He also identifies her as someone incapable of trust in that moment, which I think is also a projection of how he sees himself. He tells Mobius he can only trust himself and the show slowly shows Loki coming to trust others, but in this moment in the Citadel, he's falling back on a different perception of himself.

This is where the kiss comes in, for me. Sylvie isn't trying to tell him she'd jump him right then and there, if things were different. Sylvie is trying to tell him that she does trust him, that he can be trusted, and that he is worthy of the affection of a friend, even if she can't have him in her way. She is prioritizing her mission, yes, but not without giving him some sort of reassurance, in her own way, that this rejection isn't personal. That he isn't too broken to be loved. It doesn't have to go into romance (not saying it couldn't, just saying it isn't a requirement). It doesn't have to go into sexual relationship territory.

Maybe I see this so vastly differently because of my experiences exploring gender, sexuality, and romantic orientation. Maybe I see this so differently because at this stage in my life, I would absolutely kiss a friend if I felt something so heavy was going to break them. I have a friend I say "I love you" to every time we talk on the phone or video chat- we've been together for 20 years. I've got photo proof of a snuggle pile of friends when I was a young adult. I've shared a bed with a friend with no reason other than that we didn't want to sleep on the floor and why not. I've had friendships that were awkward to start and intense once they got going that are absolutely still important in my life. I've had crushes on friends that have faded and just shown me another dimension of what it is to love someone. I've watched adults who struggle to make connections to other people discover those moments of awkward "how do I do friend mode?" and come out stronger for them, with that huge sense of victory hidden behind a small smile they don't want to share with anyone else quite yet.

I see so much possibility in how we interpret a television show reduced to "it's a romance and that's sick and incest and he wants to fuck himself!" and it just saddens me that so many people have such a limited understanding and experience of the depth and breadth of human relationships and of how people love one another.

[scrawnytreedemon]

going off that last ask: loz/yazoo character opinion? i wanna read your thoughts!

Ohooooo, I was waiting for something like this!!! Thank you, Vee :) I’ll do my best to explain <333

Starting off with Yazoo:

First impression: Calm, level-headed, perhaps a bit shy. What surprised me the first time watching was how deep his voice was. He’s got this grace about him that leaves you simply... staring. I interpreted the introductory scene where Loz nearly cries and Yaz tells him not to as comforting-- Which I think is what a good chunk of Rem fans see it as? Overall, pretty, but not much else.

Impression now: I think he’s fucking ruthless under that dainty face, if you ask me. Honestly, it’d be right in line with Sephiroth. I think out of the both of his brothers, he gets along better with Kadaj, but if he wasn’t around, I doubt Yazoo would have nearly enough investment in their quest. He comes across as apathetic and uncompassionate, perhaps even a little haughty. I feel like his relationship with Loz is tolerable at best, and downright acidic at worst. With Loz being the way he is, I wouldn’t be surprised if Yazoo and Kadaj had to keep an eye on him at all times, just in case. I feel, though, at the end of the day Yazoo does care about his brothers, and would risk his life for them. It’s in his bones, and he can’t help it, whether he likes it or not. Still very pretty though, lmao.

Favourite moment: Been forever sinced I watched Advent Children, and, unfortunately, Yazoo my beloved doesn’t get many scenes. I’ll have to go with the introductory scene, as it gives us an idea of who they are and what their dynamic is like right off the bat.

Idea for a story: I feel like any story with Yazoo inevitably ends up involving Loz, so I’ll make a joint bullet-point for them at the end of the post <3

Unpopular opinion: Mmm, probably the more apathetic, if not downright spiteful characterisation. If my friend @vesaniens​’s experience is to be believed, then at least Back In Her Day it was far more common for Yazoo and Loz to be buddy-buddy while Kadaj goes off and does his own thing. I can see the appeal in that dynamic, and understand where it comes from. There’s alot of ways you can interpret ‘don’t cry, Loz,‘ and as it is the introductory scene, however you do sets down the foundation for all that follows.

Favourite relationship: The Remnants aren’t characters I can find preferable ships for in-canon, so romantic is off the table here. I will say, though, a dynamic where Genesis and Yazoo are mentor and mentee would be downright tooth-rotting. Genesis preening him, taking him out to nice places, showing him fine literature-- I love it! I don’t see much talk about how the Remnants would relate to Gen and Geal, and I think that’s a damn shame. Plus, Yazoo can then quietly rub it in either of his brothers’ faces whenever he gets annoyed with them. To pick another, though, definitely him and Loz-- Especially if it is strained. It’s very clear they’re meant to contrast each other. Yazoo is lithe, subtle and venemous; Loz is big, loud and sensitive. I personally have a huge soft spot for fics where they recouncile their differences and learn to truly love each other.

Favourite headcanon: Honestly, I feel like I need to make a general headcanon post for the Rems as a whole. They’re all inherently tied, so a change to one of them usually affects the other two. To touch up on one from a theory I read about a year ago now(God, has it been that long?), I like the idea that the Remnants got a little bit of Genesis and Angeal mixed in. They’re like 90% Seph, give or take, but the other 10%~? Now that’s where the fun begins baby!!! In this case, the donor would be Genesis, and Yazoo would’ve gotten the more passive-aggressive, snarky, preening aspects of his character. The resentment and feelings of  inferiority towards Sephiroth end up getting mixed into Kadaj, however I don’t want to elaborate on this too long lest I go off-topic. On a more crack-heavy note, I feel like if you waved a laser-pointer in front of him, he’d be transfixed. He’s too dignified to actually leap at it... But he likes watching :)

Now, as for Loz:

First impression: Big phuckign himbo, idiotte of a man. Probably can’t even buckle his own boots. Playtime??? Bitch NO, it’s not playtime! WHY ARE YOU CRYING??? But yeah, my initial view fell alot more in line with what I think is the most common interpretation of him. His excecution leans heavily to Big Dumb Idiot Man Who Cries When He Sees A Duckling.

Impression now: Baby. Poor fucking baby. Honestly, that could be said for all the Remnants, but I don’t think Loz’s struggle is discussed nearly enough. I’ve talked about this before, but, for me, it’s painfully clear that Loz is essentially a child in a grown man’s body. Writer Kazushige Nojima has Loz’s lines about playing during his fight with Tifa were based off his own son, and has described him as “missing a little something upstairs” --And looking at him through that lens, things become alot more disturbing. He’s Sephiroth’s love for Jenova; a doting, yearning, infantilising love. There’s an innocence to Loz, something sweet, something light and airy-- And to have him fight, have him torture, have him kill... just, man. This jarring dichotomy between such hulking, brutal strength, this bringer of destruction, and this kid who wants his mother. Is he aware? Does he truly understand the weight of his actions? Can he? Most of this, admittedly, is a bit of a stretch, but I love this doof alot jhdhjfdjhs can you blame me?

Favourite moment: Oh, definitely the crying scene-- You must be real tired of hearing that again. Though, in Loz’s case, it sets up his sensitivity, and his dynamic with his brothers-- Yazoo in particular.

Idea for a story: Same answer as Yaz.

Unpopular opinion: I think my more infantile view of Loz as a whole is semi-unpopular? Fandom seems pretty split on whether he’s just a himbo or actual babyman. Again, hard to tell, what with most Rem content and discussion being several years old and tricky to find. I’d be curious to have a discussion on this! But yeah, if we’re talking about the wider fanbase, I think my intense appreciation of him is definitely unusual. Alot of OG fans see the Rems as tropey villains, and while I will argue that it makes sense considering they’re fragments of a bigger, badder, more complex villain, I don’t think Loz is nearly as shallow as most would have you believe.

Favourite relationship: As discussed with Yazoo, there aren’t any canon characters I consistently ship the Remnants with -- Especially not for Loz, in particular when viewing him through that youthful lens -- Though as with everything, I am flexible :) On the platonic side... Honestly, I think Loz would just be a big softie who hangs around everyone. If Angeal was baking, Loz would definitely chip in to help, though he might cause more trouble than if he stayed aside. I think he’d try and reach out to Sephiroth, only for his affections to be rejected because the latter is Bad With Emotions and is torn between on whether the Remnants are a nuisance he hands off to his old friends or his children who he wants to scoop up and carry off into the vast cosmos.

Favourite headcanon: Loz eats alot of shit he isn’t meant to. Like, shit that would kill twenty grown men. At least once he has mistaken stinging nettle for mint, and spent the next two or three days scraping his tongue constantly. Would chase a ball if thrown, no questions asked; try playing frisbee with this dude, and you’ll end up on the other side of town by the end of it. If you try and pick him up, he just slumps, like a big, brawny ragdoll cat-- Probably purrs like one, too. Definitely appreciates a good scratch behind the ear :)

There’s like... probably mountains more, but this is what I’ve been able to coax out after a day of writing this on and off. Again, thank you so much for asking!! I’ve been meaning to ramble about the Remnants for ages now, but didn’t know how to go about it.

Aight, as promised:

Story idea: This is one I’ve had on my mind for years now. I haven’t gotten around to it, as it’d require greater familiarity with FFVII’s world as a whole, but the premise is that Yazoo and Loz escape far out into the countryside, and end up in a village. Yazoo soon falls ill, and Loz has to provide a living working for a local farmer. Their dynamic is initially strained, and without Kadaj to hold them together, they nearly end up splitting before arrival. As time passes, and as they grow closer to the community, Yazoo’s grumbles fade into concerned murmers. Slowly, he begins to trust Loz more, and Loz learns to take more responsibility. But as their friendship blossoms, Yazoo’s body withers. Bedbound, he wonders how Loz would fare without him, if he could make it. I imagine this ends up leading to Loz deliberately blowing their cover to get needed medical help from WRO, turning themselves in during the process.

Again, there’s probably more to it, but to be honest even I don’t know. That’s the great thing about creativity :) You never know where you end up!

Thank you for asking, and feel free to ask more if you’re curious! This goes for elaboration on characters already asked, certain headcanons, and even pairings! Also, feel free to add on with your own thoughts! Whether they be additions, refutations, or so on. Fandom discussion(provided it’s civil qwq) can be so much fun!

<333

[g-perla]

The ACOTAR Series is a Romantic/Gothic Horror Stage and Only Nesta Got the Memo

Not even SJM knows what’s going on.

Ok, this is going to seem off the rails but bear with me.

So I'm a big fan of Wuthering Heights by Emily Brontë (top 5 books and all that jazz) and I was thinking about it because it deals with themes of the Other and the supernatural, Nature as Character, the overlap of the animalistic and human, blurring of established binaries...fun, Romantic shit like that. Interestingly, this overlaps with how SJM illustrates her world and characters a lot of the time, hence why I was considering it while working on my Nesta project. I’ve mentioned before that Nesta really gives me Byronic heroine vibes and that’s a character construct of precisely this literary tradition.

I started thinking about Heathcliff and Cathy and how they're ridiculously extra and just feel the most intense emotions towards each other but also towards literally everything (nothing half-assed ever, this is a Romantic novel after all). I then remembered how so many people ship them, but like in earnest, in a totally aspirational way. It's not a #cursed ship to them at all. It's...romantic to them not Romantic. I even read often that people quote it at their weddings, specifically the infamous "two souls" quote.

Then I had an epiphany. I was like "wait, what if SJM is one of those people?? What if she has the energy of a Cathy/Heathcliff earnest shipper and that's why all her ships are messy??" Because if that is the case, my friends, oh boy oh boy would it explain so much. I will post some sections from Wuthering Heights:

Doesn’t the acotar series seem like a 1/50 dilution of that energy?? And that is barely a taste of all the spiciness this book has to offer. To illustrate further: SJM gave us the F/eysand suicide pact and the near-death battlefield Nessian scene. One is certainly more outlandish than the other, but both are the result of intense emotions. To that Emily Brontë raises the following: Heathcliff asking the sexton to dig up Cathy’s grave to see what’s up because her ghost has been haunting him since he personally dug up her grave 18 years prior and she has been haunting him ever since. He later demands to be buried in the same exact grave when he dies so they can decompose together. They both married other people though which only adds to the mess. (I am not lying to you the Romantic tradition really gave us these gems lmao. As an aside, Mary Shelley was also a writer of the Romantic tradition and she confessed her love to husband Percy Bysshe Shelley on her mother’s grave. Her mother was liberal feminist icon Mary Wollstonecraft by the way which only makes this even more amazing. Additionally, biographers believe that the Shelleys also had sex there. Talk about Romantic 😉.)

Then I had ANOTHER thought! (Dangerous)

If we read the series from the point of view of just another YA high fantasy things might get a bit boring because the world-building is honestly lazy and the magic system is pretty soft, which isn’t a pre-requisite in high fantasy (The Lord of the Rings has a soft magic system) but it's not the norm and it doesn't pay off in this series. Not to mention that the plot is pretty lackluster and derivative. To add to that the romantic and sexual relationships are questionable in their healthiness and consequently are the source of much argument in the fandom. 

But, dear reader, if we think about the ACOTAR series as being a sort of thematic and ideological 21st century YA homage to the Romantic tradition of the 19th century (within which Gothic Horror also lives), things get REALLY, REALLY SPICY.

No longer do we just have a romance fantasy with messy, hyper-emotional, animalistic characters who constantly partake in morally grey situations rife with dubious dynamics. No longer does plot really matter. No longer do we require quasi-scientific descriptions of the world and the magical system. No! All that matters now are the characters and the mood. Now we have potential! Add a lot of Nature ambiance: expanses of dark woods, great mountains, the unknowable and sublime energy of the ocean, a violent rainstorm/hurricane/tsunami, an impending snowstorm whose intensity reflects the growing emotional intensity of the characters as the story goes along (I’m looking at you impending snowstorm in acofas that curiously matches the growing complexity of Nesta’s emotional state). Blur the lines between any imaginable category: life and death, human and animal, known and unknown, Self and Other, beautiful and monstrous, good and evil, masculine and feminine, the list goes on. Most importantly make your readers uncomfortable by frustrating their desires to sort things into easy binary categories and don’t apologise for making them question their assumptions about the world, morality, gender, and any other kind of previously constructed Order. 

Basically write the story with Dionysus-in-a-Greek-tragedy energy and bring to us mere mortals artful Chaos.

Once that is done we can have a literal Romantic/Gothic Horror story.  The Acotar series could have been this unapologetically, with the added element of being told through the eyes of the "Cathy" character instead of through the lens of a third person getting second-hand accounts about what went on. This whole series is honestly enough of a chaotic mess of Byronic-like heroes and heroines and cursed familial relationships that it could have been that. That alone is peak entertainment. The problem, however, and the main reason why I can’t really say that this series truly delivered this wackiness is that SJM committed the act of not fully committing to the bit (very un-Romantic of her, I know). Now, I am not saying that SJM actually intended this. I’m just saying it really could have accidentally been this genius with some tweaks. Unfortunately, she made the crucial mistake of trying to justify too much, trying to make things too neat, too tidy, too sensical (in other words: the reason we really can’t have nice things). 

I could end this here, lamenting the potential of what SJM had set-up for us were it not for one element, one gift:

Nesta 

OHOHOHO DO THINGS GET GOOD HERE SO BUCKLE UP

Most of the characters refuse to fully commit to the bit in their desire to satisfy modern sensibilities, by which I of course mean they want ridiculous things like political power, to conquer lands, to be a Girl Boss, to get married, have kids, celebrate holidays, converse about mundane things, be relatable, etc. You know, pretty pedestrian stuff that only requires a bit of genetic luck, a sprinkle of energy, and the right circumstances within the world of Acotar. I would like to reiterate the beginning of this paragraph: most of the characters. 

Let’s say you’re stubborn and you decide to still read the series through the lens of the Romantic/Gothic tradition, what happens then? 

The most hilarious thing (for the Nesta stans that is. The antis would probably hate this)

Nesta, based on what we know about her through Feyre and the limited amount of other scenes, is the only character who really takes the performance seriously. She's the only one that SJM hasn't managed to confine through justification. Nesta just shows up and simply refuses to make sense (her POWER what a queen 👑). She is endlessly fascinating because she just exists in her world on her terms, established categories be damned, and in this manner she frustrates not only the sensibilities of the characters in the stories but those of the reader as well. This double duty is, I suggest, the result of the other characters not fully inhabiting the nebulous world of Romantic characters and thus being a little too plausible and understandable even if they are not justifiable. 

Ok, you may say, but I relate so much to Nesta. I do understand her. I don’t justify all of her actions, but I understand where she is coming from. (You’re not alone, friend. I like to think these things too. Alas, we are but plebs).

To that I reply; Nesta does things, certainly, and we can spend hours trying to explain through extrapolation, educated guesses, and personal experience why she did those things, but the fact is we really don't know why. We are never explicitly told. Our insight into who she is and her motivations comes predominantly from the understanding of her youngest sister and from our own interpretation of the actions she takes. I must make clear that our own interpretations are rooted in pre-established assumptions about what is sensical and orderly in our own world and in our own lives. We cannot interpret with the tools available to us that which may be, by definition, unfathomable. It is simply paradoxical. Nesta, as we currently know her, is a construct derived from a limited number of scenes and our interpretations and projections of these scenes. Even the scenes where we get third person narration don’t explicitly tell us her motivations and her logic. For all we know there really is no comprehensible reason for her actions and that is endlessly amusing to me in how utterly Romantic it is. Acosf may and likely will change this of course, but as it stands, Nesta is a whole Romantic character. Her divisiveness in fandom and in the narrative could be due in part to her refusal to fit the discrete categories available in her world and ours. 

Isn’t that wonderful?

To illustrate this a bit more I will share some details SJM gives us about her/ elements she sets up that fit in with the characteristics of the Romantic tradition (these are not exhaustive by any means):

The absolute pettiness (and extra-ness) of being so angry at her father’s inaction that she is willing to starve to death to see if he does something.

How in Acowae she is described as shifting between emotions as if she were changing clothes and feeling everything too strongly (probably to the point of destruction)

She is constantly being compared to animals, even when she is still human. Granted, SJM compares everyone to animals, but that strengthens the blurring of lines between usually discrete categories. It is still most powerful when used as a comparison when she is human because it dehumanises Nesta.

Often, SJM describes her characters as forces. Forces of nature, for example. Acofas is full of details like this in relation to Nesta. There is a storm brewing leading up to the solstice party and it is in full swing when she arrives at the townhouse. The language used there suggests that Nesta herself may be the storm (against the onslaught of Nesta). It really adds to the Maleficent energy tbh.

She is often associated with death post her transformation

She is Other even to Others. She was Made like Elain, Feyre, and Amren in a sense, but the process of her specific transformation differentiates her greatly from the others. As it is, she doesn’t fit in anywhere

Her intense attachment to her femininity and its expression are at odds with the ideas and assumptions about the performance of womanhood and a woman’s role in her world and even in ours. She is unapologetically feminine in her physical presentation, but her character, her thoughts, and possibly even desires transgress the unwritten rules of acceptable femininity (unfortunately there still are abject expressions of femininity in our ‘”progressive” mileux

She displays in many of her actions a disrespect towards authority and to the status quo. This is particularly notable when her intensely polarised sense of right and wrong is aggravated.

Her self-destructiveness. This is referred to most strongly in Acofas, but I would say she was remarkably blasé about self-preservation in Acowar as well

She is described as intelligent, cunning, ruthless, attractive, and prone to debilitating extremes of emotionality. All of these are characteristics of Byronic heroes, a subtype of the Romantic hero

Here are a bunch of quotes that touch on many of the elements that I have discussed above:

“I looked at my sister, really looked at her, at this woman who couldn’t stomach the sycophants who now surrounded her, who had never spent a day in the forest but had gone into wolf territory...Who had shrouded the loss of our Mother, then our downfall, because the anger had been a lifeline, the cruelty a release. But she had cared--beneath it she had cared, and perhaps loved more fiercely than I could comprehend, more deeply and loyally.” 

--Acotar, emphasis mine, note the strong emotions. This is a recurring element for Nesta.

“Cassian’s face went almost feral. A wolf who had been circling a doe...Only to find a mountain cat wearing its hide instead.” 

--Acomaf, animal comparison

“Nesta is different from most people,” I explained. “She comes across as rigid and vicious, but I think it’s a wall. A shield--like the ones Rhys has in his mind.” “Against what?” “Feeling. I think Nesta feels everything--sees too much; sees and feels it all. And she burns with it. Keeping that wall up helps from being overwhelmed, from caring too greatly.”

--Acomaf, emphasis mine

“I knew that she was different [...] Nesta was different [...] as if the Cauldron in making her...had been forced to give more than it wanted. As if Nesta had fought after she went under, and had decided that if she was to be dragged into hell, she was taking the Cauldron with her.”

--Acomaf, Nesta had her own plans for the Cauldron what a queen

“Something great and terrible.”

--Acowar, referring to her eyes. Oooh, spooky Nesta 👻

“The day she was changed, she...I felt something different with her [...] like looking at a house cat and suddenly finding a panther standing there instead.”

--Acowar, a two in one here: difference + animal comparison. Boy does SJM really go heavy when establishing Nesta as Other.

“‘Not in flesh, not in the thing that prowls beneath our skin and bones...’ Amren’s remarkable eyes narrowed. ‘But...I see the kernel, girl.’ Amren nodded, more to herself than anyone. ‘You did not fit--the mold that they shoved you into. The path you were born upon and forced to walk. You tried, and yet you did not, could not fit. And then the path changed.’ A little nod. ‘I know--what it is to be that way. I remember it, long ago as it was.’

‘I don’t know what you’re talking about.’“

--Acowar, show don’t tell gets thrown out the window here, but it is useful for the present purposes

“What if I tell you that the rock and darkness and sea beyond whispered to me, Lord of Bloodshed? How they shuddered in fear, on that island across the sea. How they trembled when she emerged. She took something--something precious. She ripped it out with her teeth. What did you wake that day in Hybern, Prince of Bastards?

What came out was not what went in [...] How lovely she is, new as a fawn and yet ancient as the sea. How she calls to you. A queen as my sister once was. Terrible and proud; beautiful as a winter’s sunrise.”

--Acowar, who knew rocks, darkness, and the sea were such gossips, but look how many connections to nature! To be compared to the sea, a significant example of the sublime, is peak Romanticism. If any of you have read Moby Dick, think about what the ocean and the white whale might have represented there and how that might relate to Nesta.

“I think the power is death--death made flesh.”

--Acowar, Feyre referring to the possible nature of Nesta’s power. Alluding to her powers possibly being related to death is quite significant because that is something most of us cannot comprehend, nor can most of the characters. For Nesta, a “reborn” but very much living character to have death associated with her is a strong blurring of the lines. The case of her being labelled a witch is similarly significant as it solidifies the elements of the supernatural while simultaneously comparing her to pretty much the only exclusively female-coded monster in western pop culture. I will touch more on this when I do my study of Nesta through the framework of Barbara Creed’s Monstrous Feminine.

“I am not like the others.”

--Acowar, we love a self-aware queen.

“Nesta took in his broken body, the pain in Cassian’s eyes, and angled her head.

The movement was not human.

Not fae.

Purely animal.

Purely predator.”

--Acowar

There are a lot more details and quotes that support this interpretation, but I didn’t write them all down in my archived notes. This post is obscenely long, however, so even though there is more to be said, I’ll leave it for another day. If you made it this far you really are an MVP and probably love Nesta to a concerning degree like me. Please rest your eyes if you’re actually reading this 😂

I’d love to read about any other takes and thoughts that might have come to your minds after reading this monstrosity,

G

[missmentelle]

I just watched the Netflix show You and it's been discussed but I don't really understand - in a relationship, how does one project their own views and fantasies onto another person? How can you tell if it's happening? Is there a certain point where it's normal or it can't be helped? It's happened a lot in the show but I'm having trouble identifying it. Also, I recommend watching You: it's a thoughtful take on how we view romantic relationships as a society and how that can be twisted

I absolutely love that show.  For those of you who haven’t seen the thriller show “You”, it’s about a charismatic but underachieving man named Joe who works as the manager at a bookstore in Manhattan. He meets a young grad student named Beck when she comes into his bookstore one afternoon, and is immediately infatuated with her; he is completely consumed by his desire for a relationship with her, and it becomes clear very quickly that he’s willing to go to extreme lengths to make it happen.  (Mild spoilers for Season One ahead) Joe is obsessed with Beck from the moment he lays eyes on her. But of course, he’s not really obsessed with her - he is obsessed with the person that he wants her to be. He decides - based only on her clothes, the book she buys and a three-minute conversation with her - that she’s a bookish “good girl” and an intellectual, a serious writer who values real literature and doesn’t crave men’s attention. And he’s very interested in that. She’s his Manic Pixie Dream Grad Student, whether she likes it or not. It’s clear from the very beginning that Joe thinks extremely highly of himself, and he feels entitled to a woman who is just as intelligent and sophisticated as he is - when he looks at Beck, he decides that she’s that perfect girl he’s been waiting for all along. Moreover, he decides that she’s equally interested in him - she pays for her book with a credit card, and Joe decides that she did that because she intentionally wanted Joe to learn her full name. And of course, as Joe learns more about Beck, he discovers that she’s not the artsy, aloof writer he had been envisioning in his head. She goes out drinking with friends that Joe dislikes, she has a trashy boyfriend, she posts selfies on Instagram, and doesn’t actually do any writing. But instead of deciding “oh wow, I was super wrong about this girl, I definitely got carried away”, Joe decides that the REAL Beck is the girl he fantasized about in the bookstore, and that she just needs his help to realize it. He decides that he knows what’s best for a woman who is a complete stranger to him, deliberately manipulating her life to turn her into more of the person he wants her to be, until... well, you know how it ends. 

When you first start watching You, it can be hard to understand how messed-up Joe actually is. He is the main character of the show, and the narrator. He is also capable of great kindness - he genuinely cares for the neglected child who lives in an abusive household next door - and it kinda feels like we’re supposed to root for him. After all, he just wants what’s best for Beck. He sees who she really is inside, and he knows that she deserves better than the life she has right now. He just wants her to reach her full potential and stop wasting time with people who don’t really care about her... what could be so bad about that?

The problem, of course, is that Joe doesn’t know jack shit about Beck, and he has no right to decide what is and isn’t good for her. She is a grown-ass woman, and he is a stranger she met at a bookstore. Joe claims to have good intentions, but his intentions aren’t the point here - nobody has the right to meddle in someone else’s life behind their back, no matter how much they love and care about them. When you truly care about someone, you respect their choices - Joe has absolutely no respect for the decisions Beck makes, and sees no issues with isolating, stalking and terrorizing her if it gets him what he wants. Joe claims that Beck is miserable, but we don’t know actually know that - he filters everything he sees through a very thick lens of his own self-interest. He doesn’t allow her basic autonomy to choose what matters to her. Beck is not actually a real person to Joe - she is a prize that he wants to win.

Think about the show from Beck’s perspective - you’re an adult, with your own whole, complete life. You have friends, dreams, a boyfriend, guilty pleasures. You make bad choices sometimes, sure, but they are YOUR choices, and you have the freedom to make them. And then you walk into a shop one day and the man behind the counter suddenly decides that you’re his soulmate and it’s now his job to make decisions for you. You barely know this guy, but he thinks he has the right to control your life - he wants to control who you date, who you talk to, and how you spend your time. Imagine doing something as ordinary as paying for a book with your credit card, and having the person behind the counter interpret this as evidence that you want them to Google you and come to your house. The very idea of it is terrifying. 

The plot of You is obviously a huge dramatization, but the same dynamic does appear in real-life abusive relationships. Abusers often have very specific ideas about what their ideal partner should be like, and they believe - consciously or unconsciously - that they are “owed” this person. When they meet someone, they tend to decide extremely quickly that THIS is finally the person they’ve been waiting for all along. They don’t really feel the need to get to know the person as an individual - they assume that they already know everything they need to know about the person, and that the relationship will be effortless. When that inevitably doesn’t pan out because their partner is a real person with needs and flaws, they get angry and the abuse starts to come out - they try harder and harder to control their partner and force them back into being the perfect person they’d envisioned, and they lash out angrily when that doesn’t work. 

Although it’s nowhere near as extreme as what happened in You, I’ve had my own experiences with dating someone who was projecting their fantasies on me. My long-term college boyfriend was several years older than me, and already finished with grad school while I was still an undergrad. As the relationship went on, it became very clear that he was looking for a meek, nerdy girl who would appreciate his geek interests but never try to overshadow him. He strongly encouraged me to do the nerdy thing he approved of - cosplaying, attending conventions, playing D&D - but didn’t want me wearing makeup (I wear winged liner every day of my life), dyeing my hair strange colours (which I used to do quite often as a student) or even wearing my contact lenses instead of glasses (I got contacts the moment I was old enough and haven’t been seen in my glasses since). He was hugely threatened by the fact that I took my academics seriously, and he freaked out when I was accepted to an Ivy League grad school because “it would be so humiliating to have a girlfriend who went to a better school than I did”. He had a very specific vision of the kind of girlfriend he wanted to have, and he was prepared to try to stamp out the parts of me that didn’t align with what he wanted.  It’s okay to have standards and expectations for the kind of partner you want to have. That’s normal. I’d argue that it’s necessary. Speaking from personal experience, life is a lot easier when you expect your partners to have mastered basic communication and coping skills. And sometimes you will need to look for a partner who has very specific traits - if your dream is to have 12 children and live on a goat farm, you need to find a partner who is on board with that goal. It’s also fine to have preferences in terms of aesthetics, interests and lifestyles - we’re always going to have certain things that we find appealing, and it’s okay to be into that. What’s not okay is to have such rigid expectations about how our future partner will look, dress and behave that we can’t cope with not getting our exact fantasy. It’s fine to think that dating a quirky art major with a nose ring would be awesome. It’s not fine to think that dating a quirky art major with a nose ring is the answer to all your problems. And it’s definitely not fine to latch on to the first quirky art major with a nose ring that you can find, and then punish them when they turn out to be a complex human with real issues and not just a living doll. Whenever you’re dating, it’s important to remember that you are dating a real, live human, and not a cartoon character. They are going to grow and change, and they are going to have flaws, off-days and traits that don’t match up with your fantasies. Your punky goth girlfriend is going to have days where she just wants to lounge around the house in her pajamas and watch Keeping Up with the Kardashians. Your tough, manly lumberjack boyfriend might have a super sensitive gag reflex and spend an awful lot of time on the phone with his mom. We’re all weird, and each of us needs to have the freedom to be our own kind of weird in a relationship - if you find that your desire to be with someone is extremely dependent on their appearance, dress, weight, hobbies, friends, job, etc, and you can’t handle not having control over those things, you aren’t ready to date.  The other big red flag to look for here is how fast someone rushes the relationship. If you’re projecting your fantasies on someone, you don’t really feel much need to get to know them - like Joe, you’re pretty sure that you know everything that you need to know about them soon after meeting. You are fully expecting this person to be the fantasy partner you desire, and so there’s no point waiting to see how the relationship goes - within weeks, you’re ready to move in together, adopt a pet together, and even get engaged. If you’re convinced that a person you met three weeks ago is your soulmate, it’s time to stop and take a hard look at things - you don’t know a person you meet three weeks ago, and you have no idea if they’re your soulmate or not. You are trying to date a fantasy and not a real person.  Hope this answers your question! MM

[clansayeed]

Do you feel like Kamilah is the jealous type? So many people have written fics about it but you have a good handle on her character. Personally I don’t feel like she is, but if she does get jealous it certainly won’t be a public thing. I don’t know, I wanted your opinion because you know her mannerisms and understand what’s going on in her head. It’s age anon by the way, I had every intention of coming back!

I wanna start first off by saying everyone’s interpretation/s in any form (fic, headcanon, etc.) are totally valid! Not that I’m saying you didn’t mean that nonnie, I just felt the need to say it just in case??

And then, to answer your question... oof. Okay, so I thought about this for a little bit this morning and I think the best answer I can give is also the vaguest answer?? Because I truly think it depends. On the situation, on the person, on the progress of her relationship with [Nadya], you know? Kamilah is a complex woman with a lot of layers on layers and I feel like she’s really the kind to take everything, even external factors outside of her control, into account in things like this.

Because at its center... isn’t jealousy an indicator of weakness? It tells you that you value your shared time with that person enough to feel the absence of it; enough to seek out the reasons for that absence and feel something about it. Or that’s how I think Kamilah would see it. She’s had a lot of time to dissect emotions after all. And we both know how much Kamilah hates showing weakness.

So going forward will be in terms of Kamilah and Nadya--

My first thought is about her past history with Gaius. I’ve kind of implied it in current (and future) chapters of Destiny II but she and Gaius had a weird toxicity in their possession of one another. It wasn’t for love, or even for lust. It was sort of a bound duty. She was the Bloodqueen, and no one would take that from her. And he was the King of Vampires, which made her his in his mind. 

(Think of it like the anti-Trinity; not opposite but definitely different. The Trinity have never strayed romantically or sexually from one another. Kamilah and Gaius most definitely have -- but I see any of those attachments as nothing more than temporary things. Especially if it meant Gaius felt like Kamilah was finding something beyond himself as a reason to continue immortal life. They were together, have been together, but not always, if that makes sense. Let me know if I need to elaborate more on this because they are some weird thoughts tbh.)

So take the above and pair it with the knowledge we already have about how Kamilah reacts to situations out of her control. She is composed; she’s logical. But when Nadya’s involved things aren’t logical at all -- leading to her lashing out like she did in The Bloodqueen. Reverting to old habits; we’ll say.

With the above as a frame of reference, I could definitely see her reacting in a negative way to anything that would incite jealousy. Not because of insecurity, but more like... possessiveness? A misguided attempt at protection that ends up as a string of excuses for why this person or that act was not “good for [Nadya].” Not in a manipulative way; I genuinely think Kamilah would reason with herself and think her explanations sound and sensible.

But, Nadya being Nadya in all her poking and prodding glory, would be the one able to peel back all of those long and probably convoluted reasons (sitting here all I can think of is like when a kid keeps asking “why” about every question, you know?) all the way down to the root of the thing: Kamilah’s jealous.

“Preposterous.” “That’s not a no.” “Of course it is. What reason could I possibly have for such a feeling?” “That’s what I’m trying to figure out.” “Was I particularly fond of that woman monopolizing your time this evening? No. But that does not mean I was feeling jealousy.” “Good thing, too. I’m a one-Kamilah woman.”

Or something like that. Nadya forces Kamilah time and time again to step back and observe her actions from a third person lens and I think in something like that it wouldn’t be very different.

Actually now that I’m writing it too I think she would probably have a strict aversion to the word jealous in any form; given her history with Gaius I can see her associating the word or anything remotely close as a negative feeling -- one that is paired with or directly preceding an act of violence and isolation. 

And Kamilah would never want Nadya to feel like that. She won’t admit it to herself (yet) but she wants that dumb human to flourish in life. Thinking back to those dalliances who died by Gaius’ hands in his own acts of jealousy-as-manipulative-love, she knows she would never do that to Nadya and thus strikes the word (and so she thinks: the feelings it defines) with it.

But -- and this is the most important thing obviously -- Nadya may be a klutz with words, but that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t see the emotion for what it is (no matter what Kamilah wants to not/call it) and immediately find ways to reassure her, to validate her, and work through it.

So incredibly long, convoluted, and at times contradictory rambling aside... I hope that answers your question? But I understand if it doesn’t. Even I have no idea what I’m talking about any more.

[thisselflovecamebacktome]

Every thought I’ve had about Cardigan

The other day I wrote this post about why I love The 1 so much which really just encapsulated every thought I’ve had about the song and decided I want to do it for every Folklore song and what better order to do it in than the track list? So with that in mind, here is every thought I’ve had about Cardigan up until this point.

Continuation of ‘Classic Taylor’ trends:

I’m not going to go too deep into this because I explained it in depth in the post I did on The 1, but in short, Taylor has had a habit since RED to have the story of her albums start with the third song while the first two are linked and explain the themes of the story in the album while not directly being part of them and certainly not the beginning of the story.

In Folklore’s case, The 1 and Cardigan explore the themes of how the choices we make matter. Both songs also explores escapism by their reliance on nostalgia in an album filled with songs that have unquestioned plots. It’s not until the end of each song that we’re hit with the harsh truth that things didn’t work out for the narrator of The 1/their love interest or Betty/James.

Interpretations of the song:

One thing I’ve found very interesting about this song in particular is how the fandom has found multiple different interpretations for the lyrics, some I don’t think I would have even thought of had it not been put forth to me.

It’s clear that when putting together this album, the “main” interpretation that Taylor wanted us to get from it was that it was the events of the love triangle from Betty’s point of view. I will say that after listening to the demo for the song, I do get the impression that while Cardigan was among the first to be written for the album, it was the last to be added to the triangle. I have no proof for this, it’s just the feeling I get. I do also find it interesting that Taylor had the “correct” lyric of “Peter leaving Wendy” in the demo but changed it to losing. While either would have worked for me, I truly believe this was an artistic choice to represent that it wasn’t James leaving Betty in the gym or even getting in the car with August that broke Betty/James up, it was the make up of many choices James made, again, going back to the theme that choices matter. I gave an example about this in the post I did on The 1 so I won’t go that into it, but August existing wouldn’t have meant anything to Betty and James’ relationships if James had just spoken to Betty rather than sulking. Alternatively, even if he still went with August, Betty may have forgiven James if he had been the one to tell her and apologised rather than Betty having to hear it from Inez. To quote the song, James continuously ‘ran like water’ and took the path of least resistance rather than do the right thing and all of that added up.

While the love triangle was obviously the angle Taylor wanted the listener to hear this story from, I definitely feel like this song came from a personal place for her. While I still think that Folklore was a recovery album surrounding fame but more specifically her masters as seen in this post, the demo of Cardigan also feels like she sprinkled in elements of her past romantic relationships, specifically with Harry and Jake, into it. This also somewhat lines up with a lot of people saying that The 1 gave Harry vibes.

In saying this, there’s one other theory that I hadn’t thought of at first that has had my attention lately. Unfortunately I do not have the posts on me at the moment, but I’ve seen speculation recently that The 1 is actually about Taylor herself, or at least who Taylor would have become had she not gotten famous. While I didn’t put much thought into it at first because I found it a stretch, while rewatching the Cardigan video last night, I started feeling it was more viable. Though I initially saw the thing Taylor ‘came back to’ in the Cardigan music video as being music, I do find it interesting that music seemed to only be the way she travelled in the video with the ultimate destination being back home putting on a Cardigan, all of which are very ‘normal’ things linked with averageness and not the celebrity lifestyle like the mystical and severe places Taylor travels to in the music video. It also intrigues me when considering how much Taylor looks back fondly at times where are different throughout the album (Seven, August, TLGAD, Invisible String etc) compared to the harshness of now (Epiphany, Hoax, MTR etc). And finally, looking through this lens, I can’t help but think of all of the ways Taylor has spoken about trying to be a friend to everyone in the 1989 era; the era where her ‘celebrity’ image was at its peak. So yeah, while I can’t say that I fully believe in the theory, I could see it being the case where Taylor trying to chase the “two girls” of fame and normalcy at the same time made her lose ‘the one’ being fame only for her to end up going back to it later on.

While I haven’t gravitated to this song as much as others on the album, when looking at a personal interpretation, it definitely reminds me of my estranged father. When singing it, I also like to change the words to “leaving like your father, running like water” because apparently the men in my family are just not family people lmao.

Its connections to other songs:

I appreciate the story telling and cleverness of the triangle. Having Cardigan start by sounding like walking on cobblestone, “I knew everything when I was young” versus “I’m only 17, I don’t know anything”, coinciding lyrics at the same times in Betty and August and more little details like that warm my heart. I will say though that Betty and August feel more connected as a story to me than Cardigan with either of the others and I think part of that is because like I mentioned, I believe Cardigan was added to the triangle last and altered to fit it as opposed to made for it if that makes any sense. I will also say as I’ve seen it spoken about, I don’t think Betty was calling August a ‘thrill’ in Cardigan. The thrill was James feeling powerful/loved by having August be willing to do anything for him and the ‘thrill expiring’ happened once he realised that that wasn’t enough for him and Betty’s realistic love meant more to him than August’s selfless infatuation.

I already mentioned this in my The 1 post, but If you never bleed you’re never going to grow links so well with But now I’m bleeding and Peter losing Wendy.

Likewise I think I’ve seen this film before and I didn’t like the ending and Tried to change the ending also links together very well.

Anyway I think that’s all for now so I’ll just end it by saying while this isn’t a song I gravitate to, it’s one I can appreciate and see the charm of and am glad to see it has been so well received by fans and the general public.

[nnegan13]

Okay, so the Boat Scene (as I am hereby calling it): chock full of symbolism and metaphors and it’s making me yell, quite frankly. 

Given that this is a period romance, each interaction between designated or potential love interests should be looked at with a Romantic Lens, which is how I drew these metaphors. I am no expert at script writing or directing or filming or anything involved with TV production, plus it’s really late and my brain isn’t working super well anymore lmao. Forgive me for not being the most coherent I’ve ever been. 

I’ve written a transcript of the dialogue as well as actions I find significant to the scene. It can be found here, along with where I use it in this meta. The video of the scene can be found here (ok it’s not working in my drive but I'm leaving it there in hopes that I'll remember to come back to it in the morning). also bc tumblr hates me I've put this all in a doc that has the original formatting I used if you want to, like, not be as confused as the tumblr formatting of this meta will make you lmao. 

now to the meta. @viviansternwood thanks for being my excuse to do this  lmaooo <3

The scene occurs in four shifts: rowing, rivers, boats, and rowing again. 

Shift the first: rowing 

Charlotte: It’s a little over an hour until the race Mr. Parker, I’m letting all the competitors know.  Sidney: Thank you. What do you think Miss Heywood, do I look ready to you?  C: I’m no expert.  S: Neither am I, regrettably. I haven’t picked up an oar in years. Sidney picks up the oars.  C: I’m sure it will come back to you. S: I wonder.  Sidney heads to the boat. Charlotte picks up her own set of oars and walks to the boat as well. She hands him the oars  S: Thank you. 

The dialogue is innocent enough, but the metaphor can be drawn looking at this line from Sidney: 

S: Neither am I, regrettably. I haven’t picked up an oar in years.

In years should immediately draw attention, given that Sidney also hasn’t been in a relationship since his with Eliza, years ago. With this connection, the metaphor that rowing skill is romantic skill is established. The scene reads much differently now: 

Charlotte: It’s a little over an hour until the race Mr. Parker, I’m letting all the competitors know.  Sidney: Thank you. What do you think Miss Heywood, do I look ready to you?  —> Do I look ready for a relationship? I mean, in your opinion?  C: I’m no expert.  —> I don’t know, I’ve never been in a relationship before, I’m no expert on them.  S: Neither am I, regrettably. I haven’t picked up an oar in years. —> I wouldn’t say I’m an expert on romance either, I haven’t been in a relationship in years.  Sidney picks up the oars.  C: I’m sure it will come back to you.  —> *thinking about the fact that his last girlfriend is back* I’m sure it won’t be a problem for you to work it out again.  S: I wonder.  —> *thinking about everything that’s gone wrong with Charlotte rather than Eliza in any capacity* I doubt it.  Sidney heads to the boat. Charlotte picks up her own set of oars and walks to the boat as well. She hands him the oars  S: Thank you. 

Now for the oars. I’m real big on word definitions so: 

Oars are specifically used to propel boats through the water. Sidney takes a set, Charlotte takes a set, they both end up in the boat. Onto shift two. 

Shift Two: the river and philosophy 

Since the romantic lens is already applied to this scene, we can just look straight at the dialogue without establishing the romantic connection.  

Charlotte begins to turn back to the tent.  —> Sidney sees her leaving and immediately calls her back. Like literally look at the video I’m gonna attach to the end of this and just scream. As soon as he sees her turn around he launches into this concept like, Sidney, dude, you’re not being subtle.  S: A man cannot step into the same river twice, you ever heard that?  —> I don’t think I can get back together with Eliza. Do you understand why?  Both sets of oars are now placed in the boat. During the last line, Sidney put Charlotte’s oars down as he spoke.  —> think of the definition of oars while I hold you in suspense for Shift the Third C: He is not the same man and it is not the same river.  —> You are not the same and neither is Eliza.  Sidney smiles.  —> Damn you understand me better than I understand myself.  C: It’s Heraclitus.  —> I have to cite my sources that aren’t my personal investments in your romantic life.  S: Yes. Of course you’d know that. Well— —> The fact that you know that pleases me to absolutely no end. 

Metaphor established: the river is Eliza and Sidney’s relationship, Sidney can’t step back into it because he is a different man. 

According to this neat philosophy website, Heraclitus’s original quote is more like  

Which apparently means something like this:  

Which in the context of our dear Sidney and Charlotte means that over the years, since personalities are not stagnant and people do change, Sidney “stepping into” Eliza would prompt not Sidney and Eliza getting back together, but Sidney turning toward Charlotte instead. 

Here’s the mental math bc I’m still a little confused (I’m not a philosopher, clearly): 

River = Eliza  River also is the same according to Heraclitus  Heraclitus also said “not everything is changing, but because some things (ie, Sidney) change, other things come into existence (ie, Sidney and Charlottes relationship) 

So, basically, the Heraclitus quote on the surface level is saying that Sidney and Eliza are two different people, so their relationship won’t work anymore, and on a deeper level (ie, fucking looking up the context of the Heraclitus quote for a meta about fictional characters) it’s saying that because Eliza hasn’t changed but Sidney has, Sidney and Charlotte’s relationship sprung into existence rather than Sidney staying the same with Eliza. 

If you don’t get the deeper level, it’s cool bc I also don’t really get the deeper level. The surface level works just fine for this conversation lmao. 

Shift the Third: boat 

Now, the third metaphor drawn is that of boats. Our Romance Lenses are on. 

Sidney unlashes the boat.  —> It’s already been established Sidney is Looking for Romance through the line “do I look ready to you?” Him unlashing the boat is him establishing that he’s trying to enter a relationship. He himself is unsure of exactly what he’s doing, but the fact that the scene is happening with Charlotte instead of with Eliza is pretty telling. He’s more unsure of what to do that who he’s doing it with. If you can’t tell, I have zero doubts about who Sidney has feelings for and who he doesn’t have feelings for.  S: —I need a second person to balance the boat, would you mind?  —> *Sidney, knowing that his relationship with Charlotte has been touch and go, realizes that he needs to be clear through all of this and establish that he does want her* I can’t exactly have a relationship by myself, do you want to do this with me?  He offers her his hand to help her get into the boat.  —> before this he looked away, which is where I got the idea that he realized the undertones/my meta of the situation as it was playing out. Gotta look away to compose yourself before asking the love of your life if she wants to get in a relationship with you, amirite?  C: I’m not sure if I —  —> Sidney, you confuse the ever-living hell out of me, I don’t even know if I’m the person you want to be with— S: Come on.  —> Charlotte, please, I want you.  Charlotte, unsure, gets into the boat, grabbing one of Sidney’s hands. His other hand goes to her waist. She rushes a little, and rocks the boat. He does not let go until the boat is steady again. —> The rocking of the boat is tell-tale of Charlotte’s character, she often rushes into situations without thinking them through, similar to how she gets onto the boat in a bit of a rush and it rocks. Sidney doesn’t let go of her waist until the boat steadies. Even with my interpretation of what Sidney said, Charlotte’s uncertainty means Sidney needs to be more explicit.  S: Careful. Sit down behind you.  —> It’s okay, I’ve got you, I’m here for you, it’s not just you here in this thing, I’m gonna be with you the whole time.  Sidney pats her hand before letting it go. He sets an oar in place, pushes them off, and starts rowing. —> He gives her a reassuring pat on the hand before letting her go. He lets her know where the best place to sit is, essentially reassuring here that he’s there to help her. The oar’s purpose is to propel the boat, Sidney sets the boat in motion.  

Jumping out of that last one to collect my thoughts. Since the boat is a metaphor for their relationship, Sidney is essentially asking Charlotte to enter into a romantic relationship with him (“I need a second person to balance the boat” meaning he can’t be in a relationship by himself). The entire way into the boat, Sidney is there to reassure Charlotte she isn’t going to fall into the water: they grasp hands, he takes a hold of her waist, he waits for the boat to stop rocking, directs her to where she can sit, and then lets go when they both know she’s not going to fall. 

Finally to the oars. Oars are meant to propel the boat forward and steer it through the water. Since the boat is the relationship, the oar is a metaphor for the effort put toward propelling the relationship ahead. Sidney first rows, as we can see from 1.06 and other bits of 1.07: he asks Charlotte to come to the ball with him, he stays by her side for the beginning of the party and only leaves when he has to help Tom. I assume once he was done he went to find wherever Charlotte went, and immediately asked her to dance. “I don’t want to dance with anyone else,” “I might wait for you downstairs if you don’t mind” (into 1.07 territory, now) C: you’re not nearly as unfeeling as you pretend “Well, if that is the case, I would ask you to keep it to yourself, I have a reputation to uphold.” (the fact that Charlotte is the only one to know he’s a big softie,,,,,,the implications of it all, also he’s establishing a teasing relationship with her here), plus everyone’s favorite from the end of the episode that I’m including just because it’s my meta and I want to lmao “I believe I am my best self, my truest self, when I’m with you.” 

He’s been doing the metaphorical romantic rowing (and for good reason, Charlotte’s been the one all season to fix their misunderstandings with one another, so he needs to step up lmao), and so he puts in the oar first and rows first. 

Shift Four: rowing, again 

Now that rowing has been established as a metaphor for the propulsion of their romantic relationship, the undertones of the physicality in this shift come out just as much as the undertones of the dialogue of this shift do. 

S: May I ask you something, Miss Heywood? Why is it, that when I finally have a chance at happiness, I cannot accept the fact?  —> Literally the girl I was going to marry is back and yet I can’t get myself to date her C: What is it that you cannot accept?  —> I want to die low-key over the fact that we’re talking about your ex, but I’m a good person so I’m going to help you talk through this. Also I want to know what you’re thinking.  S: I had convinced myself I was destined to remain alone, that I was ill-suited for matrimony. —> I thought I was gonna die alone but now I have trouble believing that? And coincidentally that trouble started up when I met you  C: I don’t believe that anybody is truly ill-suited to marriage, not even you. —> It hurts that you think you won’t get married because look at your face. Also I’m taking a jab at you because that’s how our relationship works. Also what the fuck do you think ill-suited means? Marriage isn’t a job that you have to have certain qualities for.  Sidney laughs.  —> I’m gonna get into the difference between matrimony and marriage below okay? Prepare yourself. Also Sidney has a thing for teasing big time.  C: I supposed it’s just a question of compatibility  —> Ill-suited doesn’t even mean what you think it means, you’ve got to try at marriage Sidney and just because your ex dumped you and is back now doesn’t mean you automatically have to get back with her. Destiny isn’t real. Marriage is about finding someone you work well with, not fulfilling some fairytale, destiny, fate thing.  S: Yes. I supposed you’re right. Now, its your turn, give me your hands.  —> I’m in love with you, just a little bit. Now let me teach you the art of metaphorical rowing.  They start rowing together. Both watch the progression of the oars to make sure it’s going smoothly.  —> Rowing has been established as propulsion of the relationship, Sidney is showing Charlotte that he wants her to row, he wants her to be a participant in their boat of a relationship.  S: Roll/row your hands. Good.  —> Sidney has seen here that Charlotte’s rowing works with his, he’s telling her that her rowing is working for him and for their boat.  Charlotte takes a moment to watch her rowing.  —> She’s looking to see what he’s seeing.  S: That’s it. Yeah, keep your back straight.  —> More reaffirmations that what she’s doing is working for him, that this is what he wants and that she’s doing great. Also an excuse to touch her because they’re both repressed horny on main this is a period romance and all touching automatically charges a scene both for the audience and for the characters. Sidney wants Charlotte to get that this is romantic.  Sidney touches her waist, she readjusts herself, he smiles. They’re both smiling wide, Sidney is laughing, Charlotte looks sure of herself for the first time in that scene. Camera cuts wide to show them on the boat together. Sidney lets go and Charlotte rows by herself. Eliza enters the scene and when it cuts back to the boat, they’re both rowing together again. When Sidney looks over when she calls, he’s smiling. Eliza looks unsure of herself. —> got slightly carried away on that last little bit but imagine the stuff about the waist touch down here. Now that Sidney’s reassured her, Charlotte’s uncertainty disappears, she looks sure of herself for the first time in the whole scene because Sidney has given clear indications that he wants to be with Charlotte which is what makes the entire scene with Eliza and Lady Susan later that much more heartbreaking she’s finally been given indication that her feelings are returned, that she’s not foolish for feeling as she is. When Sidney lets go, it’s an indication that the next batch of romantic rowing (beyond the end of the episode) is going to be done by Charlotte because of his declaration at the end of the episode. The camera cuts to Eliza but when it cuts back to the boat, they’re rowing together again, indicating that they’re together in what they’re feeling and that their relationship and feelings are strong. Sidney is fucking smiling when he looks over at Eliza on the shore because he was smiling at Charlotte when Eliza called to him. If their feelings weren’t strong, why would Eliza be looking so worried about the race she only entered because she knew she would win? 

Okay I kind of got carried away explaining in that last bullet point but you get the picture. Sidney rows first because he initiates the romantic development of their relationship (as in the development that can be looked at in universe, not just by the audience, as romantic), them rowing together is an affirmation that they’re on the same page (for the moment, soon ruined by the appearance of Eliza and Sidney’s loyalty and politeness to meaningful people in his life), and Charlotte rowing by herself is an indication that in the end, the decision is hers to add to the propulsion of the boat (ie decide whether or not she wants to be with Sidney), because the boat can’t be rowed by a single person. 

Now into the discussion of matrimony versus marriage.   

The definition of matrimony focuses on the ceremony of being wed, whereas marriage focuses on the partnership and relationship aspect of being wed. Sidney says he didn’t believe he was suited for matrimony, as in the ceremony. He focuses on the formal action because that’s what it’s meant in his life. The one woman he wanted to marry left him for someone with more money, clearly teaching him that marriage is a business transaction, not something romantic. Charlotte uses the word marriage, which emphasizes the actual relationship itself and being with another person, because she’s a romantic. She’s shown time and time again her belief in love throughout the season. Sidney doesn’t think he can participate in the business of matrimony, whereas Charlotte believes he can experience marriage and romance as long as he finds someone he is compatible with. Lads, 

Harmony brings us back to balance (“I need a second person to balance the boat”). Together brings us back to the rowing. 

Other thoughts/observations outside the shifts 

competitors: Stringer and Sidney, Eliza and Charlotte 

“Neither am I, regrettably. I haven’t picked up an oar in years.” —> call back to their conversation in 1.06, Charlotte calls him unfeeling, he says his life would’ve been easier if he was unfeeling, the romantic metaphor of the rowing shows that this line also means that Sidney regrets, at this moment for reasons we as the audience don’t know yet Charlotte, wishes he’d had romance in his life between when Eliza left him and now. 

“Of course you’d know that.” —> in-conversation kicking himself for underestimating her 

The rowing is a test of their compatibility. Idk if I got that in during all of that up there, but it’s late so I don’t feel like checking atm. 

He’s so gentle with her throughout the entire scene. He knows being abrasive is just going to get both of them angry, and while that can be productive for their development (try to tell me it’s not, please), it’s not at the moment because it involves pushing away before coming to a better understanding. He wants to skip the pushing part, and also Sidney is just Soft™ deep down, especially with Charlotte when they’re not at odds. 

Also the balancing, their entire development throughout the season has been about them balancing their extreme characteristics 

In conclusion 

The entire boat scene is a metaphor for Sidney asking Charlotte to be with him and Charlotte being unsure because his ex-fiancee is literally here (and he literally was the one to bring her to Sanditon) and Charlotte and Sidney’s relationship has always been a bit rocky. If Eliza hadn’t shown up when she had, I’m sure that boat ride would’ve ended with Charlotte feeling a lot more confident with where she stands with Sidney. 

Since Sidney was confident with his feelings the entire time, he feels comfortable enough to make the Heraclitus joke/reference in conversation with Charlotte later, but Eliza hijacks it and turns it from a nice moment between Charlotte and Sidney into a moment of competition, which sours the conversation in a similar way that Stringer and Sidney’s conversation after the boat race is soured when Stringer brings up “the prize he wanted.” 

Even though I’m annoyed that Eliza interrupted their boat ride, I think it was necessary so that the conversation later could go as it did (also this meta about that convo is great) and so Stringer and Sidney’s conversation could go ask it did and because it allowed Eliza to think she had “won,” so to speak, and prompt her to talk to Sidney. All three of those interactions influence how Sidney was feeling and ultimately culminated in Sidney going to Charlotte that night and saying “I believe I am my best self, my truest self, when I’m with you.” So while it sucks that it was interrupted, it was ultimately necessary for Sidney to confess and put Charlotte in the position of choosing (ie, rowing by herself) next episode. 

And I guess the conclusion to this conclusion is that the Boat Scene was fully of heavy romantic metaphor and symbolism, Sidney is a hundred percent into Charlotte and Charlotte only and he was even when Eliza showed up, he just needed time and a few gentle kicks to the head (Eliza being rude about Charlotte constantly, seeing that Stringer is interested in Charlotte, seeing Charlotte’s uncertainty about his feelings) to shake off the residual feelings for an ex-fiancee that your family won’t let go about you guys being destined to be together again, and Charlotte gets to choose if she wants to be with him next episode. And I’ve got a feeling she’s going to decide she wants to. 

[asleepinawell]

I've always felt that shoot's dynamic spoiled my expectations for patience and nuance in romantic entanglements. In their canon interactions, they really seem to accept each other "as is" and though their obviously fictional and the situational context is extreme, it's kind of #goals to just not have to hide shit and like put on a face. Their dynamic doesn't seem draining. Does that make sense? 1/2

Hey, so I actually answered an ask a while back that I think might cover some of this which you can find here. It's a brief analysis of their relationship and I think it agreed with everything in the first part of your ask.

For the other part... There's definitely some writers who write shoot in ways that don't line up at all with the way I see them. As you said, everyone has their own reasons for writing something a certain way and sees it through the lens of their own perspective. It does especially bother me to see Shaw portrayed as being cruel or abusive because it seems extremely disrespectful of her pd and everything her character tried to be, but, well, see my last sentence. If I don't like something I shut the tab and move on.

For the last bit...the link I linked above covered what I think about their dynamic, but I did want to add something about context. I think it's extremely hard to remove context from, well, just about any story. If you take away the context and rules of the world a story is written in then you've already changed the dynamic. Of course this brings up the question of fanfic and AUs. I feel like there's two main approaches to removing context in fic AUs: 1) assume the audience knows the context already and leave the dynamics intact even if they wouldn't normally fit in the setting, and 2) change certain aspects of the dynamic to make it fit the world better. I usually try for something in the middle + making my worlds somewhat compatible with the canon one. So basically I don't think you could translate them directly to a real world context.

If you want to know what a couple sort of like shoot in a real world context might look like, I'm not completely sure either. Two women who had a really hard time fitting in in the world and were different levels of jaded and who didn't think they could find happiness with another person and they just fell into each other's lives and eventually formed a partnership. And even beyond that...one of the reasons shoot resonated so deeply with me is even in the brief amount of time we get with them their relationship felt so deeply queer to me, not only because they're both women, but because everything about them and their relationship defies heteronormative standards. It felt so important to me seeing that and I really wonder if some of the interpretations of other people that I come across that don't match up with how I see them are people not having that lens to see them through.

[artemispanthar]

Dumb question but how do you feel about Bellow Diamond? (Blue x Yellow diamond) I know you've reblogged some shippy stuff before but I was just curious with the whole "They're like sisters!" thing going on

I’m mostly just casually interested in it, not super invested like I am with some ships. Generally I just like seeing cute art of it.

Re: the sisters thing, I assume you mean how some folks in the fandom read them as sisters? I’m not going to judge or critique people’s personal readings. While I personally don’t read them as sisters (obviously, otherwise I wouldn’t ship them at all!), I can understand why someone might read them that way. I feel like while they’re contradictory, both readings of the relationship are valid because they’re based on the individual worldview and experience of each person.

Here’s the thing about sibling relationships - there’s no one archetype to how siblings interact. This is true for all relationships, of course, but with siblings it’s even more variable than, say, a parental one. I personally have four siblings and my relationship with each of them is very different and I know plenty of other people with siblings who have relationships that are wildly different than any of my sibling relationships. So when interpreting the relationship between characters who are not actually related, you’re going to get wildly different readings based on what that specific person thinks a sibling relationship is like and what constitutes one in the absence of the source material making the relationship explicitly familial.

My criteria for what makes a character relationship explicitly familial:

Explicit blood relation

Explicit adoption or similar incorporation within a family structure

Referring to one another as “like a brother/sister” within the source material

After that, it has more to do with one’s own personal interpretation of a relationship and it really isn’t for one person to decide which is the right reading of it (but, of course, it’s within everyone’s right to avoid content that bothers them). Sometimes people are just going to have contradictory views on things.

Regarding Blue and Yellow Diamond, Gems do not have blood relations since they’re not organic, Gems don’t have family structures (that’s an Earth concept), and they’ve never been referred to within the show as “like sisters,” so now we’re down to personal interpretation. 

My personal interpretation reads them more as a couple, they just don’t feel like siblings to me, based on my personal life experience of what a sibling relationship is. The way the show portrays their relationship with Pink reads more of a parental one to me, especially since “Jungle Moon” portrays Yellow’s interaction with Pink through the lens of Stevonnie with Connie’s mom, an explicitly parental relationship. Blue and Yellow’s interactions in “Legs from Here to Homeworld” also read more as two parents with differing parenting styles to me.

Another thing to remember in terms of fan readings is that same gender relationships are overwhelmingly read as familial by many people, particularly those who aren’t LGBT. This is often because a lot of people do not have a frame of reference for a close relationship between two people of the same gender other than familial, so the closeness of two people of the same gender inherently feels familial if there isn’t overt romantic closeness like kissing (and sometimes even when there is). 

By contrast, you rarely ever see people get aggressive about people interpreting a het relationship as romantic while others view it as “like brother and sister!” because most people have more of a frame of reference for various romantic relationships between a man and a woman, often even more than they have a frame of reference of a close brother and sister relationship. Often, the only frame of reference people have of a brother and sister relationship is a contentious one, so it’s easier to view a relationship between a man and a woman as romantic (whether it textually is) than familial. 

All things being equal, if you have a man and a woman character being close, it will most readily be read as romantic but if you just swap it for being two woman with everything else being exactly the same it will be most readily read as either “like sisters” or “best friends!” And most people don’t even mean it, it’s just, again, the lack of or abundance of a particular frame of reference colors people’s ability to interpret relationships

I shipped Pearlrose pretty early on (around ”An Indirect Kiss”) and even once the show started to make the romantic aspect of the relationship more obvious, it took a long, long time before people stopped insisting that the relationship was familial and anyone who didn’t read it as such as a Very Awful Person. I had someone come after me after “We Need to Talk” aggressively accusing me of condoning incest because “obviously Pearl was jealous in the way a child is jealous when their mother starts dating.” And pretty much every Gem ship has a group of people who read the relationship as familial (even Ruby and Sapphire were read as siblings by some people back in “Jailbreak”)

If gay people had to stop shipping something because someone, somewhere reads the relationship as familial, we wouldn’t be able to ship anything. And yes, even if the person who reads it as familial is also gay. Again, sometimes people just have contradictory views on things.

My point is that people often have different interpretations of things, especially of relationships, and it’s okay. In the absence of explicit definition within the source material, it’s not the place of one person to aggressively assert their own personal interpretation on everyone.

tl;dr - While I think the interpretation of Blue and Yellow as sisters is certainly a valid one, it’s by no means the only valid interpretation of their relationship and I do not personally view them as siblings, which is why I’m okay with shipping them.

[aki-chan2014]

And So It Begins playlist

imiSome of you might know that I started a new DanganRonpa fic called ‘And So It Begins’, which happens to be an SYOC. A lot of songs have inspired my writing of it so far, as well as some of my planning, so I figured I may as well begin a playlist of sort. It is a work in progress, so more songs will be added over time, and the links (put in the song name) to the videos will also only be put in as and when I can. But yeah, I hope you enjoy: (Quick note 11/11: I have also decided to add some quick notes next to certain songs to explain why they have been chosen for the playlist, where I did have specific things in mind for them. If anyone else has interpretations of how certain songs relate I’d be all for sticking those in here too-with credits, of course)

Mafumafu-Keep Out

Fantastic Youth- DAYBREAK FRONTLINE (rap arrange ver) (This song is for the happier moments in the story, particualrly those between the whole group/ larger parts of the group, and any moments that, in a different story, would have simply been carefree and youthful. Also check out this dance version, as I will be making an Ending Song chapter based on it)

Nuyuri ft flower-Proto Disco (This song is meant to be reflective of how the characters are descending down a dark path in the choices they make and the events that draw them closer to creating a killing game.)

HENSHIN ft GUMI- One Moment’s Crime (This song can relate somewhat to the system Hope’s Peak has in this story. It is also the ‘opening song’ for the story, as you may have noticed)

THE SIXTH LIE- HIBANA

Eve-Dramaturgy

Jonas Blue ft Jack and Jack-Rise (This one is about the rebellion aspects of the story)

Police Piccadilly ft Miku Hatsune-Separate (This song is meant to relate to certain pairs and possibly trios in this story, and the bittersweetness of the fact they have developed such closeness in such bad circumstances. I’d say I have Mizuki and Mokomichi in mind particularly here, but it could easily apply to others too. This is also the first ED song of the story)

Do As Infinity-Kenshin no Kemono

Foreground Eclipse-When Innocence is Just a Mask (This one is definitely also about the rebellion aspects of the story, but perhaps at a later stage of the story, where some characters may be more fatalistic about it. When they are further down the rabbit hole, so to speak.)

Natsushiro Takaaki-Endroll (also check out this chorus cover done by CATINABOX for round 2 of the Ascencion Chorus Battle 2019-my personal headcanon is that Reirei’s voice is like Emiko’s singing voice)

brave elements-Bakudan Ma (cover)

Zutto Mayonaka de ii no ni-Humanoid

Wowaka-Unknown Mother Goose

Luschka-Moratorium (This song is related to the remorse some people might feel from being involved, wondering if they’d ever be forgiven)

Sayuri x MY FIRST STORY-Reimei

Dima Lancaster ft BrokeN-Feed the Fire (cover) This one is definitely related to the point of the story where everything gets awful and there’s no turning back

ONE OK ROCK-We Are (This song can relate in some ways to how some characters see themselves as doing something good in the situation. Also a song for how they may have started off feeling when setting off on this endeavour, or the general feelings of Reserve Course oppression. )

AmaLee-Again (English Cover) (This song could link to some relationships within the story)

Cepheid ft Un3h-Chronos (this one is about feeling helpless about the situation, and how some characters are having regrets about it)

Minstrel-Fiction

AViVA-Blame it on the kids

Hanatan-Niwaka Ame

Misumi ft flower and Miku Hatsune-FAKE (see also this cover)

Dean Lewis-Waves

nameless-Toumei Elegy (cover)

HarryP- 泥中に咲く(blooming in the mud)

MurasagiYT-Little Parade (English Cover)

DECO*27 ft Miku Hatsune-Otome Dissection

Three Days Grace-Riot (Thanks to tobi-is-an-artist-too for this one. I am sure the reason for it’s inclusion is self explanatory lol)

Yunosuke ft Miku Hatsune-Spiral

2NE1-Come Back Home (Japanese unplugged ver)

Tears of Today-Corregret

Zutto Mayonake de ii no ni-mabushii DNA dake

Pizuya’s Cell X Barrage Am Ring ft Meramipop -my temperature is zero degrees

Rupert Pope and John Robertson ft Isla Meller-Coming Round

After the Rain (Soraru x Mafumafu)-yuudachi (evening rain) (this one could relate to some of the character dynamics between certain pairings, particularly between cast members and some side characters as the relationships become more distant/deteriorating. It can also relate to the feeling some characters might have at their youth slowly slipping away as the story continues)

ONE OK ROCK-Mighty Long Fall

Akiakane-FlashBack (I am planning to use this for a second OP song chapter at some point ^.^, and the actual PV of the song will inspire the sequence I write for that. Also, this is such a good song about falling apart and grief and betrayal so it fits really well with later events)

*Luna ft  來 -Epilogue (Also check out the chorus cover done by EncripT for round 1 of the Ascencion Chorus Battle 2019. Anyway, this one is about being able to make one’s own choices and how the idea of doing this has served as a motivation for some characters)

Fractured Light Music-These Final Words

Fractured Light Music-We Dream of Stars

Fractured Light Music-Goodbye

Ludovico Einaudi- I Giorni

Eve-Yamiyo

Tokyo Teddy Bear English Chorus Cover

YURRY-CANON ft GUMI-Humanly

Eve-This World To You (For the bittersweet moments and the bereavement)

CYPHER-Redmoon (another one for the rebellion themes, and also the theme of doing something that you cannot go back from)

Misumi ft Hatsune Miku-Weird Beast

chorus cover of ‘Bolero’

Zutto Mayonaka de ii no ni-Seigi (justice)

After the Rain (Soraru x Mafumafu)-The equation for the beginning of love (a particular couple relationship is what I have in mind with this song, because the song characters are sweet awkward dorks and so are the characters of the couple)

Fantastic Youth-Mairieux (acoustic arrange)

Nathan Wagner-Innocence (because well, they will end up losing it, won’t they?)

Fantastic Youth-I thought I was an angel (cover and rap arrange) (Kinda self explanatory-they started out trying to do the right thing, thinking they were the ‘angels’ in this. Of course, they aren’t really, are they?)

Jayn-With Love (for the slightly more supportive/positive aspects of various character relationships, both platonic and romantic) UVERworld-Touch Off Dasu x Ensou ft Len Kagamine-Jet Ammo

Memai Siren-Ajisai

Crusher-P ft Miku Hatsune-Propaganda! (both about the elitism of Hope’s Peak and how they’re trying to present this very particular image, and also how dangerously close-knit the cast get)

ALEXANDROS-Pray (There’s a lot of cases of characters wanting to help each other, and not knowing how. So this song is about that, and those particular relationships)

FELT-Until Tomorrow

MAN WITH A MISSION-Remember Me

Aron Wright-How You’ll Be Remembered

JubyPhonic- Häagen-Dazs Ika no Sappuukei (English Cover) (This inspired the scene with Keiko on the roof in Party Time, part 1. I guess this could be a song for the main event of Preparation/Party Time in general)

BRAVES ft Nikki Reed-World’s On Fire

Fantastic Youth-Totemo Suteki Na Rokugatsu Deshita (cover)

Wolpis Kater-1% (Melon soda no hoshizora wo)

Studio Yuraki-Mukanjyo(English cover) (this fits with the themes of the story so well in general)

Misumi ft Hatsune Miku -Alter Ego (there’s something about the darkness of Misumi songs that fit so well with ASIB aaaaa)

chorus cover of ‘0verf10w’

Raon Lee X KOBASOLO-Philosophy of Adversity

chorus over of ‘Yankee Boy Yankee Girl’ 

Eve x Rib-Lear

Pizuya’s Cell-Midnight Liberty

Studio Yuraki-MAYDAY (cover)

Mitei no Hanashi-Drown in the Night

YOASOBI-Racing into the Night (check out this group cover too)

Fantastic Youth cover of no title

chorus cover of Los!Los!Los!

Sou-Mr Fixer

Techniken ft Lollia and Sohly-Make Me, Hate Me

Eve - ‘Love & Destroy’ (cover ver-originally by Mi8k ft GUMI) There are a fair few good covers of this really, but I picked this one because Eve.

FUZI x Neru ft Luschka and Mas Kimura-Optimi2er

Chorus cover of ‘RENEGADE’ (come on, tell me this isn’t a Shino song. Or even an Emiko song, for that matter. I dare you.)

SYND!CATE-In The Elegy (a chorus cover mash-up of ‘In the End and ‘愛迷エレジー ‘. Yes, really.)

Nathan Wagner-New Horizon

Neru ft Len and Rin Kagamine-Becoming Potatoes

Wild Fire- Everybody Knows (cover)  (about the elitism, obvs)

Harry-P- 徒花の涙

Ivy Adara-Rebels

GRIMES- We Appreciate Power (feat Hana)

Opening song for ‘Get Even’ (BBC drama)

THE BINARY- 花に雨を、君に歌を

MILGRAM-Undercover

Mafumafu- 悔やむと書いてミライ

Sou’s cover of ‘Penguin’s Detour’

HANDEAD ANTHEM-Why Not?

MARETU- ドクハク  (The link leads to a dance cover because why not? But this one would link to the more violent events and mindsets that develop over the story)

Stray Kids-District 9

KIRA-RISE UP NATION (Quite a few of the cast could be seen as misfits in some way, and they are all for causing trouble and making changes)

*Luna ft GUMI-Black Out Stray Kids- SLUMP (English Ver) (Deteriorating relationships of all sorts, and the emotional conflict that some of the characters are going through especially as they realise that they are at the point of no return.)

Red-The War We Made (Well, it’s more or less a war anyway)

Citizen Soldier-Hope It Haunts You (I’ll let you all theorise over this one lol) Citizen Soldier-Would Anyone Care? (Suggested by PainX65, as fitting certain characters, moments and even Hope’s Peak’s actions over the story)

Eve-How to Eat Life

MYTH&ROID-Remembrance (Goes without saying that Remembrance is in a way one of the stronger motives behind what our cast are doing, in a macabre way)

No Resolve-What You Deserve

Nine Lashes-Guilty Hands (They all have them)

Nathan Wagner cover of ‘The Kill’

Mako Niina-Sensen no Realism (The implications/consequences of what they are all doing hitting them)

After the Rain-Kono Yubi Tomare

Mashiro cover of ‘That Summer Saturates’ (the heady fallout of being involved in a crime with friends, and the general intensity of adolesence, and how the two combine)

chorus cover of ‘Nocturnal Creatures’

Fumiko Uchimura-Dotte Koto Nai Sympathy

[valyrfia]

hey friend! fello eurovision shitposter here :) first of all I want to say that im so glad to have finally found someone whos as convinced as i am that bulgaria should win this year! I had another question for you: so you post a lot of marvel as well and a lot of stony so i stalked your blog and im confused because you said you started to ship them more after civil war? idk im a huge stucky shipper and steve and bucky just seem to have the better dynamic no offense intended i just want yourview

BULGARIA. THEY’RE AMAZING RIGHT? I’m honestly almost more in love with this song that I was with Beautiful Mess last year (that’s a lie I still cry that my boy Kris didn’t win but I also adore Amar Pelos Dois so I’m not mad). Now with the footage of their AMAZING live performance at the London pre-party, I’m almost fully convinced that they are gonna clinch the top spot this year. I mean, imagine Bones with the camera work and lighting of Eurovision and the atmosphere of the arena. It’s going to be incredible I’m so excited. 

Moving on from my trash talk: why I ship stevetony and not stucky? Whoo boy this is gonna take an essay to answer, and it’s going to be difficult  a. because I can never remember all the reasons why I do ship stevetony (I always end up missing one lol) and b. because stucky shippers are…enthusiastic, for the lack of a better word. I love them, I respect a lot of them and I’m friends with people who ship it. But fandom is a tricky business. Stevebucky never did it for me as a ship. The explanation is long and complicated but it can be boiled down to a distinct idea: For me, adding a romantic element to Steve and Tony’s dynamic makes their interactions much more interesting and intriguing, while adding a romantic element to Steve and Bucky’s dynamic would almost subtract something quintessential from both of those characters. 

Friendships to me are almost more impactful on a person’s life than romantic relationships, god knows where I would be without my friends today. There’s a tendency in the media to push the obligation that the most important person in your life has to be your significant other. I hate that, frankly. Steve and Bucky love each other more than anybody else in the world, and for me, that’s beautiful. I guess I just never did understand the romantic connotations that people attached to what seemed to me, seemed to be a fully functioning, complete and beautiful relationship. 

Steve and Tony’s relationship however, you always feel like you’re missing some part of the story when you observe their interactions. From their respective monologues to each other, The Confession and The Oath to their familiar joking with each other right before everything goes to shit at the base in Siberia in CA:CW. You feel like you’re missing some part of their story. I, (it seems along with Jonathan Hickman, RDJ and Chris Evans) like to headcanon that this missing piece is a romantic plotline, but you can interpret it however you want. That’s the beauty of fictional works. It’s not the cold, hard canon that matters, but your interpretation of it. My experience is different from yours and to me that’s beautiful.

An essay is available below the cut, if you’re interested in how I actually stopped shipping stucky and started shipping stevetony (an origin story if you will.)

In my introduction to Marvel, a couple of years ago, I did initially read Steve/Bucky fics more than any other pairing, but incidentally it was a Steve/Bucky fic that made me start reading Steve/Tony ones (oops I guess?) The Man on the Bridge by boopboop on AO3 was the one that got me invested in the Steve/Tony dynamic, it was the fic with the highest kudos on AO3 at the time that I was reading Stucky. It’s a really great fic 11/10 definitely worth the read (I think you need an AO3 account though) but what kept me going wasn’t the ship I was supposed to be reading it for, it was the dynamic between Steve and Tony. For example: you get great scenes like Steve and Tony bickering like an old married couple over coffee at least four times and banter like this out of nowhere: 

““I sent flowers?” Tony asks, trying like hell to play it cool. He gives her a desperate look that she ignores by default.

“Tony picked them,” Pepper says, determined as ever to ruin Tony’s reputation.

“He did, did he?” Steve asks knowingly.

Pepper leads them all into the wide social space inside. “He spent a lot of time trying to find your favorites.”

It’s dark enough to hide the fact that Tony’s ears are a little pink, even when someone has as sharp a vision as Steve does. That doesn’t stop him wanting to crawl back into his suit and hide. “Really? Do we have to tell him that?”

“He might think you don’t like him if I don’t,” Pepper says with a knowing smile flashed in Steve’s direction.

“I don’t,” Tony says firmly. “I tolerate him. Barely.”

“Uh huh.” Steve chuckles, his smile growing warm. “Right. I get it.””

and lines like this

“We - Nat and I - figured Rogers would come to you for help once he and Bucky made it out of Florida.”

“You did?” Tony asks, stunned. He can think of a dozen people Steve would have picked over him, even with the resources Tony has at his disposal.

Barton looks at him like he’s an idiot. “Yes,” he says, simple as that.

“And that brings you here why?”

“Because neither of you idiots have a single shred of self preservation between you,” Barton says bluntly. “That’s why you’re good for each other.”

and general power couple stuff

She hardly looks a day older than she had appeared in the recording they saw before leaving for London - but Tony knows that file was dated 1991. Her sharp features are paired with dark eyes and unnaturally pale skin, offset by a razor sharp, almost masculine suit. “Mr Stark,” she inclines her head, “Captain Rogers.”

She had been given no other identification in the videos, other than being addressed by Lukin as ‘Synthia’. Since they don’t want to give away how much information they have, Tony tips his head to one side and asks, “Should I know you? Have we met?”

“We have not, Mr Stark. Captain Rogers and I do have a shared acquaintance, however.”

“Don’t you dare talk about him,” Steve growls, tense at Tony’s side. The fact that he hasn’t rushed forward and unleashed that brewing violence is something of a shock. He’s practically shaking with his rage, every muscle in his body tense and strained.

Tony puts one hand on Steve’s arm, steadying him. “Look lady, I don’t know who you are but I’m tired of games. What do you want with us?”

She tilts her head, “Why not the pleasure of your company? You are Iron Man and Captain America after all. An unstoppable force. The two greatest superheroes of our time.”

even the goddamn villains ship it I was supposed to go into this fic and not come out the other side shipping steve and tony come on

there’s a reason that this is the only non-stevetony fic i’ve read in three years goddamnit 

*clears throat*

But yeah that was the fic that got me interested in the possibilities surrounding the Steve/Tony dynamic. Then I started doing some research and came up with the canon content (like their respective love confessions in 616 and the actors fascination with the ship (shoot me I’m weak okay)), and it’s been a wild ride ever since. 

If you’re interested in seeing their dynamic in action through a romantic lens, may I suggest Disrepair by Tippet for MCU and  Belief Space by magicasen for 616. Neither have huge confessions of love or anything like that, Belief Space does have one kiss towards the end but the focus point is Steve and Tony’s dynamic during the incursion crisis in 616 and Steve’s POV remains largely platonic throughout the fic. Disrepair actually has no romantic connotations in it, as far as I remember, but it analyses the MCU dynamic in such a way that you start to see what I mean when I say that Steve and Tony’s relationship would be ten times more intriguing with a romantic element. Both fics are interesting character studies of both Steve and Tony and I would highly recommend reading them anyway. Also Belief Space is my favourite fic of all time, and does not get enough love goddamnit, so there’s that. 

Anyway, I’ll finish your lovely ask by giving you what is frankly my stevetony song for Infinity War and the only song I listen to nowadays. It’s my fave. What else would it be in the month before Eurovision? It’s Bones by EQUINOX. 

[dreamofcentipedes]

Do you agree with Linkspooky meta about chapter 125?

Drawing me into the tumblr drama, eh, anon? Because we have very different interpretations of the overall trajectory the series is going to take, our views are naturally inimical, and I don’t really want to start anything that might be considered ‘beef’, because you see…

But you did ask, and fandom’s full of debate, right? Because it’s quite a lengthy meta and I want to provide a sufficient rebuttal, this post is pretty comprehensive and/or exhaustive.

Along with theme-related disagreements, there are two major things in the meta that I take issue with: 1) Itpresents a lot of assumptions as fact without making the case for them, and 2)It expects Ishida’s moral system and values to match the analyst’s own, even ifthere isn’t any evidence for it. I’ll be coming back to these two here and then. 

Early on in the meta it makes the argument that the final panel is unlikely to be a 19 because usually reversed Tarot are simply presented as upside down in the manga whereas this one is mirrored. But later, it goes on to argue the case for it being a 16, even though no matter how the image is moved, the 16 will remain in the wrong order, whereas at least in a mirror a 19 can clearly be made out. For that reason I would definitely say a 19 is more likely and could possibly even reflect (lol) Kaneki and Touka’s parallel development.

“Sex isn’t really a net positive or a net negative, it’s just neutral”

This is really justa personal opinion stated as fact, and ignores the very real and very powerfulemotional charge of 125. Such an objective view is far from universal, and inmany circles sex is triumphed as the ultimate form of love, which, I think, iscloser to what Ishida’s view is, judging from the care and dedication he tookto drawing 125. And again:

“having sex doesn’t really resolve any of Kaneki and Touka’sissues” 

This reduces theact to just a quick shag without acknowledging the clear emotional significanceof the experience for both the characters, proved both in the chapter andbeyond it. Sex does really resolve their issues when both of their issuesrevolve around the need to be loved. The comment is a subtle reductio ad absurdumwhich tries to instantly dismiss an argument without really fighting it.

“Having sex, or advancing their relationship might solve theirrelationship arc, but it’s tangential to their individual characterarcs.”

Again, itunderplays 125′s significance and the enormous impact a sexual-romanticrelationship can have on one’s character - it seems like it’s trying toclinically separate the two when, the way I see it, the relationship arc hasbecome a major part of their individual characters now. Just look at the endingnarration for Ch 131: “A reminder that the two of them wereonce two”, i.e. they are now one.

“Kaneki isn’t really experiencing a happiness of his inner spiritthough, considering he started crying in the middle of sex and could notexplain why.”

This is another example of stating assumption as fact. I really don’twhy everyone assumes crying has to be a negativething when tears of joy are a well-established concept. He leans intopassionately kiss Touka right afterwards, so why do people assume his heartisn’t in it? I would argue that he does explain why, butchooses not to do so with the unreliability of words, but the certainty ofaction in the kiss. And again, with evidence from recent chapters, he’sclearly drawing strength from his relationship with Touka in trying times forhim.

“There’s also the fact that they’re having this sex in the darkness,with black borders around the panels and constant cut to black. I hope thismakes a good case for why I think the sun isn’t exactly the perfect fit forthis scene.”

Not really, becausethe final page of the chapter is bathed in light, specifically for the sake ofshowing the illumination in their lives, the way I see it. Furthermore, thepanel specifically makes use of that darkness to make it seem as though lightis emanating from Touka over the naked Kaneki, strongly paralleling the SunTarot.

The darkness does in fact serve one of the purposes the meta argues for- to close them off from the rest of the world. But even then theinterpretation of that feature feels unnecessarily cruel. It goes on to arguethat Kaneki and Touka are being selfish for forgetting the troubles of theoutside world for this one brief moment. Considering everything they’ve beenthrough, and all the incredible effort they’ve put in (and are still puttingin, as the following chapters prove), to punish them for relaxing for a few hoursjust seems brutally unfair. Like yelling at Churchill for pouring a brandy in his room after a day hard spent towards the war effort. If this was just sex for the sake of distraction,then why dedicate a whole chapter to it? Why focus so deeply on the strength ofthe emotions involved, and why portray it so beautifully? As we have seen fromthe following chapters, no-one has suffered as a result of their actions,Kaneki and Touka are still working diligently for the future of the Ghoul, andin fact this experience has strengthened Kaneki’s resolve tofulfil his duty as the One-Eyed King rather than undermined it.

That white hair isGiri, not Ninjo. Kaneki stuck his head in the sand as Haise and wilfullyrejected the greater concerns of the world as the Black Reaper, but his senseof duty now is stronger than ever by working in tandem with his feelings ratherthan against them. Having one night of relaxation with a loved one is in no waya neglectful failure of duty, especially when it’s only improved his workethic.

The next partdoesn’t really make much sense to me:

“In a way it’s an unequal love because Touka can never value Kaneki theway Kaneki wants to use her, as a reason to live, as a symbol for all the goodthings that make life worth living.”

Yet not that long ago I was arguing against a meta by the same authorclaiming Touka had an unhealthy and unrequited fixation with Kaneki. Toukadefinitely wants to be a source of support to Kaneki, but that’s because shewants to return the favour for how he once supported her, knowing how much of adifference it makes first-hand. What we’re seeing with Kaneki now is not allthat different to what we were seeing with Touka back in the original manga’sfirst half, and as such, it is both equal and balanced. I’ve just seen so manystretches from people trying to find ways to claim their relationship is unhealthy,when there’s barely been any circumstantial evidence to suggestthat, let alone definitive. If you’re shooting from a tragic axis, then focuson all those death-flags in recent chapters instead - even though I thinkthey’re red herrings, they’re at least more substantial than this ‘toxiclove’ angle I keep hearing about.

“That being said, defining yourself entirely by the relationships youhave in your life and trying to keep them around is in and of itself aflaw.”

And see, this goes back to my major issue #2 with this meta. This isjust a personal opinion. There really has been very little in the manga tosuggest that Ishida thinks the same. I hear this statement like it’s a giventruth, but really Tokyo Ghoul has been much more focused on finding the right people to rely on than giving upon them altogether. The concepts of both :re and Anteiku are heavily lauded byall upright characters in the series and by the series itself; both Kaneki andHinami’s lives going off the rails upon leaving them and various troubled livesfinding peace within them – Yoshimura, Amon, Akira, and pretty much all ofGoat. These two cafes are founded on the story’s very heart, the current serieseven being named after the latter, and they are institutions that representcommunity and family, not strong-willed independence. Both Touka and Kanekihave been punished for trying to take that latter route and are now only nowfeeling something close to peace because they have embraced the former. Thewhole struggle between Humans and Ghouls exist because they reject interspecies relationships andstubbornly persist on their own path and their own way of being. So for thatreason, I highly doubt Ishida shares the same individualist outlook, whetheryou consider that to be personally right or not. His sympathies, and those ofthe series, lie on a more communal and social axis – a kind-of “power offriendship” for adults, acknowledging the rocky roads that relationships can godown, but for the sake of both parties, insisting that they’re worth preservingnonetheless. Tokyo Ghoul triumphs ultimate interpersonal understanding overindividual integrity as the way forward for societies and ourselves.

“At it’s core it’s a struggle of people from two different worlds trying desperately to connect.”

This bit I agree with! Touken is a microcosm of Ghouls and Humans trying to understand each other. Only because to me the relationship seems so clearly positive, I take that as a symbol of hope for the triumph of peace between Ghouls and Humans as has been the goal from the series start. :re is not the same story as the original was and so is free from its trappings of Tragedy; making it possible to view its developments under a very different, and in my opinion more precise, lens.

“Re: and Anteiku before it was a place where both of them were sheltered and allowed to be mostly innocent to the world.”

No, not really. Touka dealt with her father being killed and lived on the streets as a predatory Ghoul before coming to Anteiku, and even when she was there she became embroiled in Investigator-killing and various loved ones put at risk of death. During Kaneki’s time at Anteiku a loving mother was murdered before his eyes, he fought a Dove who detested his very existence, he was almost made into a meal twice by an insane cannibal who pretended to be his friend, and he was kidnapped and tortured for two weeks. In no way can they possibly be considered to be innocent to the world during their time at Anteiku, and the claim holds even less water when referring to :re after everything they’ve been through in the first series. It’s an attempt to paint Anteiku and :re in a negative light when there really isn’t one.

“At some point theoretically the idea is that Touka and Kaneki will decide for themselves what they view as right and wrong, rather than following simply what Yoshimura or Arima told them, or endlessly substituting new parental figures to guide them.”

This is again a substitution of the analyst’s own rhetoric over Ishida’s concepts. Yoshimura’s ideology has no need to be replaced, because the story has only ever lauded his stance, and Touka is clearly benefiting from following his ideology (calmer, wiser, gentler) as well as providing a positive influence to others (through creating a home for them in :re). Yoshimura’s legacy ought to be honoured and not simply thrown away because it’s not Touka’s original idea; no ideologies really are original - you pick up everything from somewhere. Touka has chosen of her own will to adopt Yoshimura’s ways because she has seen firsthand the good it can do people. She’s not blindly obedient - she is capable of thinking otherwise and disagreeing with Yoshimura, as she did plenty in the original series, concerning how to deal with the Doves, Kaneki’s kidnapping, and his decision to save Touka from the Anteiku Raid - so why should her growing respect for his ways now be childlike deferral? Kaneki likewise has his own reasons for continuing Arima’s legacy, as Ishida has taken care to point out for us:

Kaneki is equally capable of turning against his mentor as he demonstrated when he physically fought against Arima. Respecting and adopting other people’s ideas is no great sin if it appeals to your already present sense of right and wrong, as is the case with both of these two. As for the parental figures part, that returns to the “finding the right people” argument I made earlier. Young people have a natural need for an older generation to guide them as they come into their own, as they have now. Demanding that they leave that hole in their heart empty as they continue to make poor, uninformed decisions is like telling a child to skip high school and go straight to work. Both Yoshimura and Arima have made a great contribution towards these two finding their own identities, and towards a huge and necessary step in resolving their parental issues before they can pass into life’s Adult Stage. 

“Surely she did that because she wanted to love a man, yet you say she wanted to be loved. It’s a good summary of their relationship and the tragedy of Touka’s own self conflicting selflessness.”

I agree with the Adam and Eve stuff as they will effectively be the parents of the new world of the Half-Ghoul ideology, but not the conclusion drawn from Eto’s speech; isn’t the point that she wants both? To love and be loved? Isn’t that exactly what Touka has received?

“Characters consciously wanting to change but being unable to do so is basically the theme of the past ten chapters.”

…But they have changed. In the past ten chapters before 125, and the chapters after them, characters have been addressing their past mistakes and moving beyond them. Their core desires may remain the same but that’s what makes them them. That’s what good, realistic character development is; to change their behaviour and their outlook without ever changing them into a completely different person. Amon has moved past his grudge against Ghouls and even the specific Ghoul that killed his mentor, and hopes to create what is a truly righteous world; Akira has come to drop her father’s vendetta and understand Ghouls as people; Urie is placing his morals above his position in the CCG; Saiko has finally decided to make a stand; Takizawa has found purpose and selflessness in his life once more along with something like a reason to live;and finally, Kaneki and Touka have talked over their relationship that has thus far been fraught with misunderstanding and reaped their reward, finally discovering the love that both of them have been searching for. That’s what makes this the Sun Arc of revelation. They don’t need to become different people, they just need to become the best versions of themselves. 

Then there’s the rest that I can mostly skim over (haven’t read Berserk yet so I haven’t looked too deeply into that segment, but I will say that inspiration =/= exact paralleling):

16 for Tower: 

I’ve already made the case for the Sun and I don’t really see what would be the point in doing the Tower again when we’re already long past that point in the Fool’s Journey. The Sun has much more appropriate timing.

Tsukiyama’s betrayal: 

Impressive analysis of Tsukiyama’s aesthetic/emotional divide, but considering how chill and even excited Tsukiyama was to hear about the Touken marriage, I think the fandom has collectively misjudged the nature of Tsukiyama’s feelings towards Kaneki. He’s already moved past his obsessive stage in the Rose Arc, and now I think, rather than wanting Kaneki all to himself, he just wants to be his friend because most of his other friends are now dead (a comedic omake doesn’t suggest any truly deep emotion on Shuu’s part). And I don’t think that’s an avoidance of reality. Goat was about bringing people from all corners together past their grudges to form a cohesive unit dedicated to creating a better world.

So Tsukiyama’s forgiveness of Kaneki seems to have been the mature thing to do, similar to Amon forgiving Touka, because they all share the same real enemy: the world - the egg they must shatter. Tsukiyama ending his emotional isolation by joining Goat is thus a positive emotional development his character, and so I highly doubt a betrayal. I think Furuta uttering Shuu’s alias was more of a hint to his identity as Souta than any kind of foreshadowing, and Shuu throwing open the door on Kaneki and Touka is due to him being Kaneki’s second-in-command rather than any symbolic reason. 

Hinami will also not defect. I’m concerned that the meta considers Hinami joining Aogiri a positive development for her character and her joining Goat to be negative. Joining a sadistic Ghoul terrorist organisation is never a positive development for anyone’s character, and indeed the narrative punished her for that decision. Aogiri did teach her strength, yes, but Goat allows her to use that strength together with her kindness. Just as it is made very clear that Kaneki was wrong to leave Anteiku, so it is made clear that Hinami was wrong to join Aogiri - the kind of isolated rebellion the analyst prefers is not considered favourably by Ishida, who has consistently championed the benefits of community, teamwork and understanding above the follies of reckless self-destruction. 

So yeah, that’s my two-cents where that’s concerned. Sorry for the delay btw anon, but, uh, you can see why.