#neuropunk discourse

[eliana-system]

My opinion on the "the brain is an organ so psychological conditions are physical disabilities" argument, as someone who studies psychology

(only means I've read about and studied this subject)

Well, every mental disability has to do with something physical, like hormones, different neuronal paths, etc. However, this isn't how disability are classified as physical or mental. The need for this classifications is because the symptoms are very different. There are physical symptoms and psychological symptoms. Of course, some disabilities have symptoms in the other category, but the difference is still there. Psychological symptoms mostly impact the behaviour and the moods, and thoughts processes. So that means hormones, brain's perception of the world, neuron's paths, brain structure.

Depression can be seen in the brain, but most symptoms are psychological. You can develop physical symptoms with depression (lack of vitamins) but the illness is defined by psychological ones (mood, insomnia, no motivation to do things you love...). Cancer has psychological repercussions (like most of not all physical disabilities; denial, depression, mood swings) but the symptoms diagnosing cancer are physical (presence of a cancerous tumor).

Think of the difference between physical pain and psychological pain. Both can be seen on scans. Both are painful. Both can be disabling. Both can lead to death. But they are not the same and are not healed the same way. They also are not treated the same way by society.

The thing is, yes the brain is an organ, but the difference between physical and psychological disabilities is important in many ways. Treatment options. How they are viewed by society.

The brain is the chief of the body, and psychological problems often originate only from the brain while physical problems don't. I'm sure there are conter examples and I know some disabilities fall in both categories. However the difference is there, not only scientifically but also created by society. And the difference is relevant today.

A little precision on autism/ADHD/dys, because it's mostly the disabilities I've seen argued on the subject. Most of these neurodivergence's symptoms are psychological. I've yet to see physical symptoms except guts problems (which btw should be looked at to make sure it isn't due to something comorbid, which there are a lot of)

PS: An example of both physical and psychological disability (I think) would be a thyroid problem, which creates mood swings.

[thepisserrrrrr]

as an ND able-bodied person, i just wanna say that cpunks are NOT doing anything wrong by not allowing us in their community. its completely okay and im actually very very happy that physically disabled people finally have their own space where they dont have to deal with ableism toward them all the time

able-bodied NDs have it made in this sense. we have TWO communities! we have neuropunk and madpunk, and you can go on any social media platform and easily find hundreds of other NDs on there along with little communities and shit. but physically disabled people dont have it that easy. when they DO find one that isnt just about ND people, it's still full of ableism. i've seen it myself and it makes me sick

so physically disabled people decided to make their OWN community. just for them. no one else. then THATS when able-bodied NDs start getting pissy and call them ableist when they were basically doing the exact same shit before.

you can handle not being allowed in one community. theres two more you can be part of just fine

if youre an able-bodied ND who sees yourself in any of this, maybe you should stop and look at yourself. make some improvements

to the cpunk community, dont let people like this tear you down. stand your ground, push these people out. you deserve your OWN safe space and no one will take that from you

[actuallyverynormalbtw]

i dont like to talk about self-diagnosis because i dont enjoy people making assumptions about me, my illnesses, and my diagnostic status. but i will say:

i have self diagnosed and gone on to be medically validated with an official diagnosis. multiple times actually. i was never wrong about my self-diagnoses.

however, i have been misdiagnosed by professionals FIVE TIMES. and let me tell you, a professional diagnosis being wrong is far more harmful than a self-diagnosis being wrong.

if your self diagnosis is wrong, maybe you used the wrong language or put yourself in a box or now feel invalid and whatnot. but if your professional diagnosis is wrong, it can lead to abuse, medical trauma, panic attacks, issues with medication, even suicide.

i was misdiagnosed with BPD when i was 15 by a psychologist that i spoke to for hardly even 10 minutes. this diagnosis was based on my parent's description of my reactions to abuse, and the diagnosis was used to validate and excuse their abuse.

i was misdiagnosed with MDD when i was 12 and put through several different types of anti-depressants. we never found anything that worked, because it was actually ADHD and dissociation, but i did end up with panic attacks and insomnia all throughout middle/highschool!

when i self-diagnosed with autism however, it saved my life. it took me out of active suicidality because i was able to finally able to accept myself after years of feeling like i am just "being a person wrong". i had the knowledge to accomodate for myself and the language to advocate for myself. this was life changing. even if i was wrong, which i wasnt, i dont see how it couldve caused any harm.

my opinions on self-diagnoses arent black and white, and im not entirely settled on them either, but i do think this is important to understand. doctors and psychologists are not all knowing. we live in a time where we can access thousands of dollars worth of university level education on the internet, even the same exact resources medical students use. plenty of people are capable of interpreting themselves and that information to come to a conclusion about what they are experiencing and what might help.

sure, self-diagnosis might be biased. but a professional is most likely going to be just as biased, and possibly less aware of it. its just silly to use bias as a primary argument when it is an inescapable feature of human psychology. there is a reason ADHD is underdiagnosed in women. there is a reason anxiety disorders are underdiagnosed in men.

an incorrect self-diagnosis wont take away resources or your space in your comminities. but professional misdiagnosis can cause real damage.

(i am not trying to fear-monger about professional diagnosis, moreso responding to the fear-mongering surrounding self-diagnosis)

[cr-pplepunx]

low support needs / high functioning disabled people FOR THE LOVE OF GOD listen to your high support needs / low functioning friends and family (and believe us) about ableism!!!!!!!

nobody listens to us, we NEED you to listen to us.

[terror-punk]

The fact that people keep coming onto our posts about minorities being open about who you are where you're safe to (destigmatisation, general rights for stigmatised groups of people) saying things like:

We're being harmful to disabled communities (how?)

We're trying to get people killed (???)

We're a radqueer (we hardly know enough about what that means but a few said it in a derogatory way so I'm still adding it)

We're an "endo cunt" (We're a DID system, but yes we're endo friendly! We're quoigenic! Who would've thought that the blog about how people should be able to define their own identities without harrassment even if people fear your identity is pro endo?)

We're trying to make disorders like psychosis "quirky" or "fun" (Disorders don't have to make your entire life hell 24/7, and society shouldn't be allowed to enforce that idea, it's the point of the post! Acting like disorders make your life only miserable and not worth living is siding with ableism! Disability can suck but we shouldn't have to hide it or be swept under the rug!)

That we're delusional in a derogatory way (we have psychosis so I suppose you're correct but your ableism is showing.)

We don't have psychosis ourselves and are speaking for psychotic people without knowing what it's like?

Is kind of.. Sad. I know this is the "piss on the poor" brand of reading comprehension site, but how did a post about how stigmatised people (queers, disabled people, alterhumans, etc) shouldn't have to hide their identies under a mask of normalcy turn into accusing us of being malicious? We stand by the fact that stigma shouldn't be a thing, and that people with marginalised identities should be allowed to speak and be who they are without judgement. You're kind of just proving to us that the post we wrote is needed, in the end. We and people like us are treated horribly for being public about ourselves and we're not going to sit there and take it, so we're not going anywhere and not shutting up.

We will say the overwhelming majority of responses to the post are positive--some even thankful, and we appreciate those responses a lot. I'm just so confused as to how people got from point a to point b when the literal point of the post is that people shouldn't get hurt just because they're open.

[thejacespace]

Just a reminder to able-bodied neurodivergent people who've been eyeballing the cripplepunk movement and community

Neuropunk and madpunk are pretty small, but they've got the sort of focus you're looking for. Check 'em out, build 'em up

[bloggedanon]

People are out here arguing that gatekeeping cpunk from people is actually perfectly fine because able-bodied ND people have mad- and neuropunk and that's "perfectly fine" with them and it's actually annoying as fuck imo, large explanation under the cut I forgot to add originally

• First of all, try to tell me that physically disabled people are mentally perfectly fine and have never had their mental health compromised as a result of their physical disability. Just try, I'll wait. Just like how I'm waiting to hear about "able-bodied" ND people not having any physical issues purely as a result of being ND.

• Secondly, that doesn't make gatekeeping with the mad- and neuropunk communities okay EITHER, even IF the first bullet SOMEHOW happens to be true. The separatist mind-body dichotomy is predicated in entirely false pretenses. The experiences between the physically and mentally disabled communities have SO much overlap. One "form" of disability is not inherently more or less disabling than another, that's down to the individual(s) and their conditions. A lot of either "form" can restrict people's abilities to perform a lot of the same tasks regardless of what the tasks may be or what "form" of disability is responsible for it. A lot of medical conditions (and systemic ableism) can produce a whole lot of symptoms that present like mental disorders.

• In the same vein, we DO have to acknowledge that some people have their disabilities affect them in ways that not everyone experiences. The experience of having a psychotic break isn't comparable to the experience of being wheelchair-bound. But neither is the experience of being a low support needs autistic that can function independently and being a high support needs autistic who can't bathe or dress independently and will need lifelong supervision, and this is just two examples of the same disorder! A person who's chronically bedbound isn't going to have a comparable experience to a Deaf-Blind individual, even if they both wind up with lifelong caretaking requirements. If we can acknowledge that experiences in the mentally disabled and physically disabled communities aren't going to be universal even WITHIN our own communities and we don't turn to separatists about it, what makes the physical and mentally disables communities as wholes any different?

• This one's the big one, and I see it a lot, you guys really need to learn what punk actually means. PUNK isn't about the "by X group and for X group" mindset at all. It's not about "X group of people vs X group of people." It's a community of people who are standing together against a SYSTEM. It's about highlighting society's wrongs and shouting about it, and trying to enact change in whatever way we can. Its praxis is just activism. You don't have to be black to stand with the Black community and fight for their rights, and fight systemic racism. You don't have to be a woman to be a feminist, and fight the patriarchy. You don't have to be queer to get down in the trenches with them and fight queerphobia (allies still get bottles 'n shit thrown at them regardless). You don't have to be disabled to stand against systemic ableism. You don't have to be the direct target of systemic oppression, or specific, targeted systemic microaggressions to fight it.

What punk is is getting down in the thick of oppression right alongside those who have to deal with it as a concrete force in their daily lives and being right next to them when shit hits the fan, fighting the same fight they are, and taking the blows as if you were one of them, because to those who want to perpetuate it, you might as well be. Anyone can be an ally, and allyship IS what punk is, just as much as being a member of a targeted group fighting for their rights. Systemic oppression doesn't care about the nuances when it lines us all up against the wall, and our infighting is doing its job for it. The second we start singling out groups of people for their identities is when we've already lost. Anyone standing up against these sytems is punk.

Anyone GATEKEEPING a punk movement isn't a punk, they're a fucking poser. A cop. A fed, even, because there are no cops at punk.

Can you have specific communities OF [x people with x identity and experiences], by and for that group by definition, to discuss their specific experiences unique to their situation(s)? Sure! Just don't do any fakeclaiming in the gatekeeping, mmk?

And don't you DARE call it fucking punk.

[wonky-joints]

honestly those posts that are just a bunch of "i love you"s followed by different life experience or traits really annoy me especially when theyre in a disability context bc you dont know me, you can not just love me based solely on one thing, for all either of us know you might actually fucking despise me and it could still be to do with the things you're claiming you love people for.

more recently it also seems like people are making them less so to validate themselves or others or to destigmatise those things (which can be done in many other ways anw) and more so because people know it will get them notes which ultimately just makes the statements in the post seem even more moot.

[v11ces]

if you're crossposting cripplepunk discourse shit in the madpunk/neuropunk/dyspunk/unitypunk tags, knock it off, no one wants to see that shit here.

[nuke-your-mind]

hey btw if you force people to use tone tags thats ableist

no one has to use them. they are to communicate your OWN tone. someone not using them isnt ableist towards you.

they are for the individuals comfort. if they make the other person uncomfortable to use or the person doesnt understand them then wham! they dont have to use them <3

if you have a problem understanding what someone means, ask them what they meant. it isnt hard.

[ghoul-butch]

.

[villain-disorder]

Taking meds to treat my asthma that are making me feel all kinds of weird. Mentally ill. Asthma meds might have just made me slip into hypomania. Oopsies.

[schizoaffectively]

Genuine question here.

I have seen discourse about how cripplepunk should also be about mental disabilities (neurodivergencies, mental health, etc.), or that it's exclusionist against people with mental disabilities because it's not including being about mental disabilities.

I have not seen any posts unrelated to this, about how neuropunk and madpunk should also be about physical disabilities. I have not seen neuropunk and madpunk called exclusionist.

So my question is... why?

That isn't to say that there isn't overlap!! I could be madpunk or neuropunk too, as I am mentally ill and neurodivergent... and lots of other cripplepunks have mental stuff going on too. Just like how lots of mentally ill, neurodivergent, etc. people can also have physical disabilities! But you aren't cripplepunk BECAUSE of a mental disability and a mental disability alone. And you aren't neuropunk/madpunk BECAUSE of a physical disability and a physical disability alone.

I don't think it's wrong for physically disabled people to want a space. It's not saying our disability experience is any more or less than those who are able-bodied but mentally disabled. Is it wrong to create a movement about being physically disabled? I don't think so, personally.

I just don't get why people are upset about about it being exclusionary one way, but not the other.

[fantasy-store]

Ongietusio/Ongietunem

[ongietusio/ongietunem]

ongietunem "identities" are terms surrounding ones delusions effecting their perception of things - such as their body, reality itself, their environment, aspects of oneself or relationships and so on - as well as the disconnect one feels from reality due to these delusions.

this uncludes the episodic, non-episodic, self-aware and unaware.

for a term to be under the ongietusio umbrella, it means one has a hard time differenciating their perception of that specific thing from what is real and what they expirience or believe it to be, that one's perception of such is effected by delusions, be it brought on by psychosis, a schizospec disorder or other.

etimology:

ohn-gee-too-zio / ohn-gee-too-nehm

the "sio/zio" end is pronounced as a soft z, ee, oh sound.

ongietan+delusio / ongrietan+delusionem

taking the first 6 letters from ongietan, the old english word for perception, taking the last 4 letters from delusio, the secondary latin root word for delusion, and taking u+nem from delusionem, the "noun of action from past-participle stem of deludere" - delusiodere being the first root word for delusion.

ongietan, perception, relates to ones view and disconect from what they should be viewing/expiriencing. delusio/deludere/delusionem, delision, specifies and emphasises the disconect from what is real and what is actually being expirienced.

how to coin.

one can coin an ongietusio by using the prefix ongietu-, example, ongietucorse.

the following template is optional.

[x] is an ongietunem term/ongietusio relating to one's perception of [x] being affected by [x] delusion. this term aknowledges the disconnect between reality and one's expirience, it does not romantisize nor idealize this expirience.

ongietusio does not support

transid/transx, "transitioning" from reality to a delusion or any other variation of the phrasing, comparing neirological conditions, mental health or disorders/disabilities to being transgender in anyway, radqueers, discourse, ableism and general bigotry.

ongietusio actually supports

arissomei aldernic -cubi terms chronosian (non/anti-radqueer) queer stances people who have gone through traumatic/stressful events people who expirience atypical dysphoria, hallucinations and intrusive thoughts recovering radqueers recovering paras clusters a, b and c cripplepunk neuropunk lgbtq+ mogai/liom neo/xenic identities (researched) self-diagnosis

who can use ongietunem terms?

everyone in the "ongietusio actually supports" category

people with diagnosed, undiagnosed, proffessionally and self diagnosed delusions

anyone who expiriences a disorder/condition that causes delusions

anyone who anknowledges this term has boundaries and are not transid adjacent nor arissomei or aldernic replacements/alternatives.

please note intrusive thoughts can be a side effect of delusions but dont cause nor are they actual delusions themselves. having intrusive thoughts alone does not qualify as this specifies one's entire perception of things being disconnected from what is reality.

also note this is not a term made just for fun, but to actually aid in recognizing the disconnect, aknowledge it and spread a bit more awareness about the kind of expiriences people wth delusions may have. it is a serious topic about mental health, not an aesthetic or choice.

thank you.

id's are all in alt text.

links/tagging

about delusions(link)

anti rq archive(link)

Arissomei(link)

Aldernic(link)

Chronisian(link)

@acetrappolaswife, @hewasanamericangirl, @docsfallfromgrace, @sage-writes-n-coins-mogai, @archival-arrival, @antiradqueer, @arissodic-archive, @objectumluv, @clusterrune

[merakistims]

"physically disabled people deserve their own spaces where their voices are centered" and "mental disabilities directly impact the body" are ideas that can coexist, by the way.

the separation between body and mind is not as definitive as many people think it is. Those of us with mental disabilities that impact our bodies or bodily disabilities that impact our minds are especially familiar with this. and in a society which consistently silences and devalues disabled people, a lot of us have both; it's hard to push on in a world like this without picking up a mental illness or two.

that being said, I think it's fair for physically disabled people to want a space that is just theirs, and not have their voices be overpowered by those of use whose disabilities are primarily mental. and the benefit of spaces like madpunk and neuropunk are that they serve to give us spaces where those aspects of our experiences can be highlighted too. There's lots of overlap between cpunk and these other groups, but there's really no harm in having spaces where one aspect or another takes priority.

I don't like getting involved in discourse as a general rule, but I just wanted to say my piece about it. I've done my best to be respectful and I hope others will do the same

[talkingattumble]

I know how selfish this sounds but can people please stop clogging up neuropunk and madpunk with cpunk discourse. Please leave crippled people alone so that I can have some source of happiness about my brain without being reminded of how unwelcome I feel in both communities