#of course queerbaiting is different

[babygirldilf]

I will, sadly, tolerate queerbaiting, you see, because I am a slow burn bitch myself. these bitches aren't queerbaiting us, it will all eventually happen!! misha, jensen and danneel will make un underground low budget production of spn destiel and will give us a hot make up session (holding hands watching a westernfilm), merlin will return as a movie and they will both have beards and long beautiful hair, buddie will happen, it's all possible!!!! I AM manifesting it!!!!!!! It's all OURS!!!!!

[ace-trainer-risu]

Well I sat down to write all my thoughts about Uprising and did you know that tumblr text posts have a word limit? I hadn't known that.

let it suffice to say - and I know this will shock you dear friends - but I didn't think Uprising was very good. But you know what, it did make me feel something, even if that something was primarily "this makes no sense!" and "[laughing inappropriately at dramatic moments]" and "Oh....Hermann :)" so I officially rate Pacific Rim Uprising as COULD BE WORSE

[justsomeguycore]

i feel like if 911 ends without buddie ever going canon people are going to write dissertation length discourse on how it was queerbaiting and i want you all to know from the bottom of my heart that that’s not true. i have seen queerbaiting. and buddie is not it. it barely qualifies as queerteasing

[lilyginnyblackv2]

Now that Buddy Daddies is finished, I’m gonna say it: SPOILERS!

Buddy Daddies really is for the aces, aros, queerplatonic partners, and platonic life partners out there. 

I know, 100%  that there are going to be some people out there that are going to say, “See! It really was just queerbait all along” or some who are going to bemoan the fact that there were no declarations of romantic love or kiss or whatever. I’m sure this part right here:

Miri: “Didn’t you slip out yesterday to go drinking with a girl again?” 

Caused some frowns and I do get it. Because of this, the queerbait and Kazuki and Rei are just friends dialogue will continue and follow the series around. But, this episode has made it clear that Kazuki and Rei love not only Miri, but each other as well.

They are a work partners (相棒 - aibou)

They are partners raising a child together. (相方 - aikata).

They’ve moved (I’m pretty sure their diner is in Okinawa for reasons I’ll get to in another post), they’ve opened a business together, one which has a part of Kazuki’s last name in it (来栖 - Kurusu is his last name, the 栖 (su) part of his name means “nest.”), and Rei’s words to his father: Miri, Kazuki, and I share a bond stronger than blood. 

They are a family. They love each other.

Of course, friends can be a part of a family. Friends can love each other, but there are also reasons why people who are in situations like co-parenting, queerplatonic relationships, platonic life partnerships, and etc. don’t refer to their bonds as friendships and the people they are co-parenting or in a partnership with as their friends, but as words that give some space for those grey areas in-between.

Friendships are strong, deep, and beautiful. Platonic love is love and is powerful.

But, there are definitely still different sets of expectations and boundaries that come with friendships vs. other relationship dynamics. 

Kazuki and Rei’s situation falls outside of the usual friendship expectations and boundaries and sits somewhere between that, family and partnership.

I know this topic has been talked to death about. But, I felt like I needed to write about and address it one final time since Buddy Daddies has come to an end (though, who knows about a potential Daughter Daddies!) Especially after Miri’s line to Kazuki. (I feel I could also go into open relationship dynamics, polyamorous relationships, and etc. but that feels like it would be derailing). 

Basically, I just wanted to get one final post out on this. I was very pleased with this ending episode. It made my heart so happy and warm, and I know I’ve said it before, but this series really speaks to me as someone who is aroace. Aroace characters and our relationship dynamics have basically no rep, so even if this series wasn’t intended to be written with a queerplatonic relationship dynamic in mind, they ended up writing a beautiful depiction of one that makes me and what I would want from a relationship of some kind, finally feel seen.

[have-some-pudding]

You know what I think is really going to hurt next week.

I know that 99.9% Lokius will not be canon. It is Disney +, it is the MCU, Loki has too many fans they won't let him be in a relationship with a man.

I have been through this many times before, Merthur, Destiel etc.

But the difference is: this feels real. This feels like it is not queerbaiting. This feels like their love for each other is profound, unconditional. For both of them their 1st priority is each other. The many touches, body language, heart to hearts, Loki fixing himself up before he goes to talk to Mobius. The "it's about what I wanted"..."Mobius should have a choice". The pure adoration they have for each other. Them saving each other without a second thought. There is absolutely nothing toxic in their relationship and it feels real. For the first time ever this feels like the writers are not playing with us.

Do I want this to happen?

Do I want my favourite chatacter since I am 15 to be loved as he has never been loved before, to be cherished, to be accepted just as he is, to be chosen without hesitation?

Of course i do.

Will this happen? No. It will not. Either he will suddenly end up with Sylvie, proving that he is not worthy of anybodies love only his own, or he will stay alone.

They could have given us a normal friendship between him and Mobius. Would people still ship them? Of course, that is what shipping is about. But they have given us the most dangerous thing, the very thing that could end up hurting us more than anything: hope.

Becouse I know deep in my head it won't happen, but they made it so real I cannot help but to hope that maybe this time they won't hurt us, maybe this time for the first time we can be happy for our favourite characters, just maybe this one time all of us queer people can feel like we have won.

Loki was right: hope is hard.

[sonseulsoleil]

I’ve seen some posts that are variations of “I wish they’d just queerbaited me instead” and while I’m sure most of them are jokes, it’s still rubbing me the wrong way.

I first read Good Omens when I was about 15 years old. At the time I was closeted, and extremely depressed. I knew I was feeling a lot of things that I wasn’t “supposed” to be feeling, and that I wasn’t feeling other things that I thought I should be feeling. I knew I was different, but I hadn’t figured out exactly how yet. Good Omens came into my life during this time, and it spoke to me. Crowley and Aziraphale’s relationship was not defined, but the queerness was obvious, just beneath the surface. And even beyond them, it was a book about choosing love. Adam chooses his love for his family and friends and Tadfield over being the antichrist. Anathema chooses a life with Newt over Agnes’ predictions. Crowley and Aziraphale choose their love for the world, for humanity, and for each other, over their duties. It’s against the rules. It’s deviant. But it’s the right thing to do. Love, in every form, is always right, that’s what I learned from Good Omens as a sad repressed queer teen. And I fucking loved it. I saw myself and my own struggles in that story.

When the first season of the show came out, there were a lot of accusations of queerbaiting thrown around, but I never saw it that way. It’s always been a story drenched in queer themes and motifs, intentional or not. Would it be nice to see the angel and demon kiss? Of course. But I didn’t need it. I was happy with the story the way that it was.

And then season two came out, and honestly? I underestimated how much blunt textual queerness would mean to me. And I’m not just talking about Crowley and Aziraphale. All the queerness. Maggie and Nina. The magic shop owner and his spouse. Beelzebub. The story of Beelzebub and Gabriel falling in love and choosing each other over their respective sides, which took those queer themes already present and doubled down on them. Even little things like Crowley offhandedly saying “actually not either” to “you’re a good lad” took my breath away.

The ending was heartbreaking, but it was heartbreaking because it felt so real. It tapped into a specifically queer pain, the pain of repression and fear, and how easy it is to give into the desire to simply fit in, and how that can tear apart our relationships.

It truly, sincerely, means so much to me. This story that I’ve loved and seen myself in for over a decade, has just said back to me, loudly and utterly unapologetically: yes, you are a part of this story. yes, it’s for you.

So, no. I wouldn’t have preferred to be queerbaited.

[riathedreamer]

The different ways I can see Grimmons play out:

1)     It doesn’t and we’re all fine with it. The queerbaiting is a part of their nature by now, it’s okay, we turn to fanfiction for the love declarations and hand-holding.

2)     One of the final scenes of the show is just Grif and Simmons entering a closet together. No further context.

3)     They casually reveal they’ve been married for years. For tax benefits of course.

4)     One of them gets really hurt, and we get that dramatic emotional confession. Only to have the other one call them out for how cheesy it is.

5)     One of them says “I love you” and goes straight to Super Hell.

[wellofdean]

Thinking about @luckshiptoshore and her liveblog of watching Supernatural and how much I love following it and how great it is to watch someone just fucking ENJOY the show...

And then, there were a couple of people in my Discord who love the fic, but have never watched the show, and folks in there were trying to convince them that it was worth watching (duh!) and that knowing the show by heart makes the fic so much better and like yes, again... DUH! And then I was suddenly overcome with such a feeling of ENVY for all the people who still have the chance to watch Supernatural for the first time already knowing what happens in the end.

I mean, I watched 14 years of it in real time (after downloading and bingeing season 1) and at least I was clever enough not to be in the fandom trenches that whole time, and just enjoyed it for what it was, but the end broke my brain, and changed the whole show for me.

Because, like, here's what happens in Supernatural by the end: Dean and Cas are in love. It was not subtle. Dean can't say it because he never has a single moment of not being up to his pretty, pretty eyeballs in dealing with the ongoing and constantly multiplying trauma of being the man his father raised him to be, and god's specialest boy to boot, but in the end, Cas finally does just fucking say it. Not only that, he waits until he can use it to save Dean, and show him once and for all in an incontrovertible, undeniable way exactly how deeply and truly loved and SEEN he is.

When you watch it knowing that, knowing that the the whole story is going to end in that stupid bunker dungeon with Cas telling Dean who he is and dying to save him, the whole thing just HITS DIFFERENT, because the Dean of season one with his outcast liminality and pretty, pretty lips is the poor, lonely, weird boy who will one day be loved like that by Castiel, an angel of the lord -- an impossible Eldritch being who learned what love and selfhood are from closely observing Dean.

The consensus amongst most Supernatural fans is that it is trashy and bad and that its all evil queerbaiting, but I would contend that it's actually deeply entertaining, culturally rich and interesting (yes, even its flaws and missteps), often impressively well-written and acted, never puts on any airs about being prestige television or high art, but still manages to be ultimately epic and somehow sublime, and that it's a queer story, about queer love saving the universe, and it is so, so worth watching.

Like, my brainworms are not 'they strung me along all that time and then never let them make out', by brainworms are 'they told us so many times and in so many big and small ways, and now I need to watch every bit of it again and again and again so I can finally REVEL IN IT (and, friends, that is the Supernatural rewatch journey: realising it was ALWAYS THERE). My brainworms aren't 'but does Dean reciprocate??' they are: 'of course he loves Cas, and of course Cas knows that Dean loves him, and the one thing Cas can't have? That's just his chance at happiness and a soft epilogue with and for Dean, because Cas, impossible, cosmic, Eldritch being Cas, traded his chance at happiness for his family's lives and sacrificed himself for love of his son and Dean, because that is what you do when you love someone, and what he has watched Dean never stop doing for even a minute of his beleaguered life.'

And then, Dean dies (yes, it's stupid), and he cannot just go to heaven, drink a beer and hang out, he needs to climb into his magic soul vehicle, hit the axis mundi and tear the universe up looking for his angel and his happy ending in The Winchesters? Fuck me.

And like, it's the most romantic, and devastating story I have ever been told? And I love it so much?

[roo-bastmoon]

So privacy has been violated OR...

... a smear campaign has begun.

Let's just get this new dating scandal out of the way so we can get back to buying and streaming...

Listen, I don't share unofficial content, but by now everyone in this tag knows there's a video going around that's supposed to be of JK in his apartment with Bam, walking around back-hugging and perhaps kissing a girl. Folks say there's the same couch, same wall panel, and a mood lamp.

I'm side-eyeing this because it's super grainy footage, the windows are different, the wall panel seems to be in different places in the two videos, the guy is shorter than the girl, and he's wearing a mask indoors. Plus, the account that dropped the videos supposedly posted then promptly closed up shop, which seems like they had the intention for deliberate sabotage instead of clout chasing as a sasaeng.

But people say the apartment set up seems really similar and the man has a similar hairstyle to what JK had in the beginning of 2023. So I guess it's Schrodinger's cat at this point.

(Isn't it curious that apartment-related scandals seem to happen on the day new content drops? Hmm... I digress.)

Look... If Jungkook (or Jimin) ends up dating someone else, I'm still going to support them as individuals. I'll be sad of course, because Jikook had AMAZING chemistry and I was really rooting for them to be together forever and all... but, I want them to be happy and fulfilled more than I want them to fit into any fantasy or ideas of my own.

That being said: at this very moment, half of Jimin's insta feed is about Jungkook. Most of Jungkook's lives for 2023 have JK mentioning Jimin, or even being totally focused on Jimin. There's years of super duper sus history between them. Right up to and including yesterday, where Jimin very heavily implied they are sharing Chuseok together.

It feels really weird to me that Jimin would want to tie JK's hair back neatly, call JK baby, beg JK to stay longer at his rehearsal, and joke that he can handle seeing JK naked -- but JK can't come over to shower and visit b/c Jimin says he just isn't that easy... if JK were in a relationship with someone else.

It also feels really weird to me that JK would light up like a super nova any time Jimin commented on his lives, would beg Jimin to hang out, would sing all of Jimin's songs and memorize Jimin's interview content, would travel with Jimin for his debut, then roll around naked in bed grinning and blushing while flirting with Jimin on live... if JK were in a relationship with someone else.

That would make Jungkook kind of a shitty boyfriend and Jimin kind of a shitty friend.

I know Jungkook is cultivating this cool guy/ladies man image right now and that is kinda baffling. I know friends can play-flirt, too... but to do all that on lives, after all their history together, knowing what half of Korea and ARMY thinks? Hm.

That's not "fanservice;" that's really toeing the line of queerbaiting. And it's really hard for me to imagine Jimin or Jungkook doing something like that. Jimin said he hates fake bromance stuff. (I guess anything is possible. It's a new chapter, after all. Maybe it's par for the course in idol-world.)

Hey, maybe Jikook had an amicable break up but are still really close and are fine teasing each other? Maybe they always liked to flirt but never were together? Maybe I've been reading it all wrong this whole time? Or maybe this is a bullshit video?

Whatever the reality is, I'm prepared to acknowledge it. At any time.

I'm not in a cult. I don't have to convince myself of anything. Jikook's behavior had made me think Jikook were in a relationship. If JK is dating someone else now? Okay then. I will just stop posting Jikook content and continue to help OT7 and celebrate my bias with all my heart.

No need for elaborate conspiracy theories or coping histrionics. If JK is in his Loving Women Era, good for him. Go with god, my brother. (Personally, I'd never recover from losing my chance to be with Thee Park Jimin, but that's me!)

But something about this just doesn't quite feel right. I wonder if he'll address it at all, like he did when folks filmed him in his gym or sent food to his home? Because if this is somehow real, it's a HORRIBLE invasion of privacy; home is supposed to be a safe place, and stalkers are scary.

And if it's not real, then someone is going to an AWFUL lot of trouble to overshadow Jungkook's release and upcoming album and that is unhinged. The kind of trouble that reminds me of apartment break-ins and tampered mail.

In any case, like I said: I'm ready to accept whatever the reality is, once the reality becomes clear.

I really love Jungkook. I really love Jimin. I really love BTS. They were there for me at the darkest, lowest point in my life. So whether I was right or wrong about Jikook, it doesn't really matter. In the end, I support them as far as I can.

But also, I sorta think this video may just be bullshit. So let's let them have their privacy, and focus instead on voting for Jimin and buying and streaming for JK instead, hmm? Eventually the truth will come to light.

No matter what happens, let's behave in a way that would make Jimin and Jungkook proud.

Love, Roo

[naranjapetrificada]

The first thing I should ever have said about Izzy and the last thing I intend to say until at least October 26th.

[Although I am not Her strongest soldier, so who knows if I will stick the landing.]

So to start with, I was a "late" arrival to the show. I knew it existed of course, but I only occasionally saw things that reminded me it existed. The first time I saw a mention of "grumpy/sunshine" it was with a picture of Ed and Stede, so I guess on some level I knew there was shipping going on, but that was literally all I knew. I didn't even know it involved Blackbeard lol.

Which is all to say that I first approached and watched season 1 removed from basically anything anyone had to say about it. I think what actually got me to watch it wasn't anything anyone had to say either, it was from youtube recommendations? Like I think I had watched a couple Taika interviews or something and ofmd stuff started showing up? So after catching a few clips and intentionally spoiling the kiss for myself (life is too short to be queerbaited) I watched it in April/May 2023, and was Changed by it the way so many other people were. It grabbed me so hard I started looking for fics, and when fic grabbed me even harder I became a regular tumblr user for the first time ever in June 2023.

What I didn't do, before the second half of 2023, was care particularly much about Izzy Hands.

I remember describing him as psychologically fascinating to the first IRL friend I talked to about the show, and joking that he just needed a good dom. As much as his decision to call in the navy was a threat to Stede's and Ed's lives, I saw his actions as part of a thing needed for the story, and while I knew he was one of the season's villains there wasn't really any heat behind that assessment.

For me he was there to set things in motion, and to serve the narrative in certain ways, to be a foil, more storytelling tool than man. That doesn't mean I didn't think Con did an excellent job adding layers to him, he absolutely made Izzy take up space and feel more present and textured than he otherwise might have. But when I began to zoom out and consider things on meta level, Izzy existed to do a certain thing or occupy a certain place in relation to the narrative and other characters more than anything else. And that was fine.

Then I started reading meta here, and found myself surrounded by passionate conversations about Izzy from many directions occurring with an intensity that I couldn't wrap my brain around. I saw people tying themselves into knots to justify and excuse the behavior of a textual antagonist, and I was baffled and because I still saw Izzy for what his role in the narrative was, it literally made no sense to see his behavior explained away. In the framework I brought to the fandom when I first arrived, trying to explain away Izzy's behavior would be like looking at a forest fire and trying to explain away processes like combustion and oxidation. Or if you'll allow me to borrow another extended, nature-based metaphor from a fic in an entirely different fandom:

Again, because from where my head was at, it didn't make sense to look at Izzy's morality as a zero sum game because in this metaphor, he was functionally just a brackish body of water. I'm not saying the morality is brackish, I'm saying the morality was literally not the point because like an estuary, an antagonist "must exist" because antagonists exist for specific reasons directly related to storytelling goals.

So there was no real heat behind my feelings about him or his actions, beyond the natural emotional reactions we have to characters and their behaviors before we zoom out. I was of course upset with his treatment of Lucius, which was targeted compared to other members of the crew. I was annoyed with the way he talked to and about Ed. I laughed when his plans had the equal and opposite results of what he intended, which you could argue happened with every single plan he made for the entirety of season 1. And yes, especially as a Black person living in the US, I felt the fear and betrayal that comes from seeing someone call the cops (which given the show and its writers, it does not feel like a stretch to describe calling the navy that). I wondered if there was any coming back from a choice like that, which is a big overriding question for the series as a whole.

I'm not here to debate any of the points in the previous paragraph. I know how I feel and you feel how you feel and there's already been so much said about the morality of it all by people who have explained themselves well, so let them convince you or not. Instead I've been trying to talk about the two sides of my experience before and after getting into the fandom with Izzy.

Before: Izzy Hands, Narratively Useful Antagonist Portrayed Compellingly And Effectively by Con O'Neill.

After: Izzy Hands, Unfortunate Avatar Of The Sadly Common Tendency For Certain Fans To Hyperfocus On A White Antagonist Or Secondary Character When There Already Exists A Protagonist They're A Foil Of (And Also It Looks Bad TO Do That When The Protagonist Is Someone With A Marginalized Identity).

I'm not here to argue the merits of those assessments either, because that's not the point. The point is the vast gulf between them and how the latter does such an incredible disservice to the Izzy we were given and that so many people claim to love. The latter comes from a place where morality is the focus, which I'm sorry y'all, feels like it originates with people who refuse to countenance Izzy's role in the story as well as his characterization.

Viewers who were willing to see Izzy as an antagonist, who don't view the word "antagonist" as a value judgement in and of itself, who don't think that finding an antagonist charismatic or compelling means anything about their own morality, those people can look at the show we were given and take it for what it was made to be. I'm not saying that it's only the Izzy stans (not enjoyers, not jar people) who start fights or that people who understand that Izzy is an antagonist don't also have deep morality related feelings about him and his actions in the first season. What I am saying is that sanding off Izzy's rough edges and trying to make him into something he isn't poisons even the possibility of having a discussion about him because people enter the conversation with two completely different understandings of reality. If you cannot accept the job that season 1 Izzy was given to do to move the story along, well you might as well have watched a completely different show for how much that fanon Izzy has anything to do with the canon one.

This show deserves better than that. The writers deserve better than that. Con O'Neill deserves better than that. Israel Basilica Hands deserves better than that. We all do.

[sammygems]

Things I Have Noticed/Remembered from my MCDiaries rewatch

I will be updating this as I continue my rewatch, currently everything listed is out of order, cause I've started writing this as I am on episode 64 of season 1 and I don't feel like fixing it to be in order, so sorry!

What the fuck was Garroth's "plan" he mentions to Zenix in the first episode 😭

Zenix seems to be younger then Garroth in Diaries, considering the way that Garroth talks about him, but I think in MyStreet, Zenix is either the same age or slightly older then Garroth, so far this is like, the only obvious age difference between the series (besides Travis and everyone else of course)

I forgot how entertaining Brendan's character is, he's far less annoying then I remembered

ZANE AS AN ACTUAL BAD PERSON, I LOVE HIM

I love Vylad, but I legit forgot how much he was in Diaries season 1, I thought he was in it far less

Currently at the stage of Diaries where there is no lgbt+ people, i'm very disappointed by this (we haven't even reached the queerbaiting)

KC's character is....not as bad (racist) as I was expecting, still not great though. I'm choosing to believe that KC is from Tu'lu and Maid Cafes are a thing there, and "Kawaii~Chan" is just a stage name for her work.

Y'all know how Cadenza went missing and she was actually turned into a chicken? Yeah, the way Hayden, Castor, & Laurance talk about her to Aphmau makes it sound like Cadenza is a small child. But then it turns out she's the same age, if not older, then Laurance and Aphmau.

Aphmau should've just made Joh and Hayden lovers, I'm so serious, it would make the whole Cadenza and Laurance being "close like siblings" in season 1 to I think actually being called as siblings in season 2 and in MyStreet a lot easier to understand and make a lot more sense.

Why does Kenmur have like, some sort of romance with all the girls from Meteli??? He was engaged to Sasha and is stated to have feelings for Cadenza.

I love when the episodes open from Sasha's POV, and she goes and talks to Gene and there's just no voices. I love having to pause to read what they're saying. (this point is sarcasm)

The way literally everyone reacted to learning Laurance was blind was....icky. Like, I understand Cadenza and Aphmau reacting as like "we need to find a way to bring his sight back", but the fact that it was literally EVERYONE who decided he needed to get his sight back was so weird.

I don't mind Laurance ACTUALLY getting his sight back, but I wish it was done differently. Like, personally, I'd have him like, have to wash his face with the water of the fountain of Lady Irene.

Emma & Corey, Dale & Molly, and Logan & Donna are very sweet couples.

After Zoey and KC were able to turn Cadenza back to her human form, Zoey mentions that she "recognizes Cadenza from somewhere", but I don't think this goes anywhere???? I'm assuming it was supposed to hint at like, Cadenza's backstory.

ngl, I kinda wish we got more of Zane and Kiki's relationship, I really wanna know what side of Zane Kiki actually saw.

Anyway, Kiki is currently expecting.

Nicole (my beloved) has showed up. I've decided I won't question the logic behind her iron fists being able to break bedrock, and instead say that her referencing her iron fists just made me think of Ace from One Piece and Natsu & Gajeel from Fairy Tail.

I COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT NICOLE'S FOX, ROXY, AND ABOUT THE WYVERNS IN GENERAL 😭

I need to mention that in one episode (before Aphmau went to Scaleswind and learned about Lady Irene), Garroth says to Aphmau "by the seven", which I think she was hurt, but the use of "by the seven" is similar to how the same phase would be used in Game of Thrones or to how irl lots of people say "oh my god", so I'm really wondering if there were originally supposed to be 7 Divine Warriors instead of 6.

The way when Aphmau found Levin and decided to keep him and Garroth IMMEDIATLY decided he would be Levin's father figure.

The way when Laurance found out that Aphmau had a kid, his response was to play with Levin and say to Aphmau "you didn't tell me you had this little buddle of joy/energy".

That's all for now, I'll like, update when I have more to add.

[martinsharmony]

Thank you for your RPF post. I agree. I wake up thinking of scenarios for DT/MS. They're just there, in my head, being in love and content. And I need them there. I need to know that even middle aged queers can find love, that lives adapt, that finding new love doesn't mean abandoning established love.

I need to see happy, older queers thriving in our bigoted, hateful world. Because I don't get to have that happy ending myself. And because young questioning queers need to see it, know they have a chance. To know that not everyone finds their someone(s) in high school or college. To know that everyone's path and timeline are different.

And MS and DT are such lovely people, inside and out, truly kind and giving and they deserve happiness in whatever shape that takes. It warms my poor, injured heart to see them gazing at one another adoringly, their softness for each other plain on their faces. To see them choose to be in each other's lives over and over. Like, how wonderful! How can someone hate on that? They're little bright spots in my cloudy world.

My shipping them with never affect them. I don't know them, I'm not in their circles, they will never know I exist. If any of them are seeking out the RPF fics, then they are reading them intentionally because they want to. (I'm sure MS has written and submitted some himself based on various interviews over the years.) They aren't fighting allegations of a relationship, they continuously fuel them, even. Something I don't think they'd do if they felt it was harmful to their careers, untrue, or as queerbaiting. They're allies at a minimum, they wouldn't cheapen the lived experiences of other queers for a couple of extra asses in seats at a show.

Anyhow, thank you for your well thought out post and for making me feel seen, even as I hide behind an anonymous ask.

Thank you so, so much for writing this. My apologies in taking so long to respond.

And thank you for saying that my post made you feel seen. I truly appreciate that. RP shippers are the red headed step children in the fandom world. You saying you felt seen by my writing made ME feel seen by your appreciation, and truly by receiving this ask as well.

I agree with you. I have never seen anything so wholesome in my life as the way Michael and David are with each other. They just exude love. It's so pure. I really don't understand the vitriol against it. I mean the majority of our "fuel" comes from them in the 1st place. Plus it's evident when you watch them interact.

I just chalk up the hate to it saying more about them than us.

And yes, of course people can find love at any age and regardless of what state their current relationships are already in. Why should we think they are not with each other because they are each already in relationships? Because they are famous? Because they have kids? That makes no sense. People do it every day.

Yeah no way they are doing this for any kind of "marketing" or whatever, except to provide some kind of narrative that would allow them to hide in plain sight. That way they can be just about as "free" to be themselves and show as much affection toward one another as reasonably feasible. I wish they could feel 100% free to be out in the open with it, but I also realize they probably prefer privacy as well.

I look to them as relationship goals. I hope to someday find someone that I feel as at home with as I believe they feel with each other.

[eisforeidolon]

It’s like, yeah. The writers were aware of Destiel, but they didn’t care about it. Even that recent Edlund quote, he said he wasn’t “absolute” about. Basically saying, “yeah it’s something, but don’t really care enough to genuinely explore it.” Bob Singer straight up saying it’s not something they ever talked about, Jensen’s feelings on it. Misha has even said it wasn’t a serious thing until S15, but he’s been changing his story since the start.

I mean, they were pretty aware of the fans, so of course they knew it was a thing in fandom. In a similar way to how they knew fans complaining was a thing in fandom, or wincest was a thing in fandom.

Sure, there were some points where the show made suggestive jokes, but that is mostly an entirely different conversation. One that is not actually about story and authorial intent, but changing cultural views on the relative appropriateness of certain types of humor versus real life usage. One that would need to address the context of the entire rest of the show having the same kinds of suggestive commentary, especially between the brothers as a baseline of how characters interacted.

Part of the hellers disconnect from reality in terms of claiming they were queerbaited is how they want to extract the jokes and interactions of ONLY D/C and demand romantic follow though. It's queerbaiting when they ship it! Except characters making eye contact in dramatic moments and throwaway jokes to ship tease the fans is neither the promise of a storyline nor a storyline in and of itself. It's no more a suggestion the writers were seriously intending D/C than the many more jokes about D/S meant the brothers would suddenly start making out on screen. Which, again, is part of why they freaked out so hard over the barn scene. They'd spent so much time desperately trying to convince themselves that offhand sexual jokes and any degree of intimacy = legit romantic storyline that has to be made canon endgame? That they found one. Oops.

At the end of the day, what the show itself actually told them up through the finale, what the showrunners and Bob Singer told them, what Jensen told them? Was ship what you want, but that's not our story.

They would rather listen to the one guy who also told them that, but then changes his story when he needs money/has something to sell. Because they aren't actually mad about being queerbaited. They're mad they couldn't force the show to play out their fanfic in live action. But they desperately want to pretend being entitled brats is oppression.

[cherriiramen]

There was literally no queerbaiting in Loki. As a bisexual man I am literally begging people to stop calling "male characters had close and intimate scenes but did end up together" queerbaiting. Queerbaiting is when they dangle a potential queer character in front of the audience and then go "oops no they're straight" Loki isn't even straight! He's canonically bi! So is Sylvie! Neither of them ended up with anyone! Men are allowed to be close without being romantically or sexually interested in each other and modern audiences are so spoiled for representation that those friendships are attacked by fans angry they didn't fuck.

HOLY SHIT I JUST ANSWERED AN ASK TO DO WITH THIS-

ANON WHAT A TIMING-!!

Here! Have the link to what I spoke of this. I think you’d like this. 😭

https://www.tumblr.com/cherriiramen/733622613500395520/im-sorry-could-you-be-more-specific-of-why-you

This is exactly what I’m trying to say.

Loki was confirmed canonically bisexual, how much more could we ask for??

No romantic relationship was confirmed between him and Mobius. Neither was it confirmed between him and Thor, nor him and Tony, nor him and Fandrall, and ohhh the list is long..

I’m a multishipper in general because I love analysing different character dynamics and how they might work, but… hello guys?? 😀

Like it’s nice to fantasise sometimes when it comes to shipping, but can we stop mixing our delusions with ‘canon’?? It’s happening far too often where you have a bunch of extremists ruin a show/movie for you by hyping it up just for two ‘queer’ characters then completely shit on it when they don’t get the representation they highly expected by the end of it.

++ I find it really fucking petty and ungrateful how so many of them turned on Tom for not making out with Mobius or some shit. He deserves so much better than this. Are you forgetting how much of this fandom’s bs he handled?? He laughed with us at our crazy fanart, ship art it be or just Loki on a damn stripping pole. He was asked so many uncomfortable questions. He was more than generous with us.

Honestly..

[redpool]

Because we are moving, I've been rewatching Supernatural while packing and I've decided i want to make a list of the episodes that i actually like (meaning that I actually like what I'm watching).

Season 1:

Episode 1 'Pilot' - Minus the intro, i usually skip that

Episode 2 'Wendigo' - That last bit, where Dean has the bandage on his throat... *insert debby ryan meme here*

Episode 3 'Dead in the Water' - Enough said, i mean come on..

Episode 5 'Bloody Mary' - I used to be terrified of this ep. But the way the boys are so soft and comforting towards the girls. (and Mary is pretty)

Episode 7 'Hook Man' - Love me some hook man. and the black shirt and brown jacket combo on Dean *chefs kiss*

Episode 12 'Faith' - Dean is just really attractive to me i this ep, he's so sick and pathetic looking and i love it... THE HOODIE

Episode 17 'Hell House' - AHDHGDGDHGDHBGDGDCVGDCB PRANK WARS!!!!!!

Episode 19 'Provenance' - Idk why "HOLY, BLONDE, CHEERLEADER, BATMAN" < I quote that so so much

Season 2:

Episode 2 'Everybody Loves A Clown' -

I want to say Bloodlust because of Benny but I hate that other shitbird

Episode 4 'Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things' - Its just a fun ep

Episode 5 'Simon Said' - ASH MY LOVE!!!!!

Episode 6 'No Exit' - America's first known serial killer

Episode 11 'Playthings' - "Of course, the most troubling question is: Why do these people assume we're gay?" "Well, you are kinda butch, but I just think you're overcompensating."

Episode 15 'Tall Tales' - GABE MY LOVE!!!!!!

Episode 17 'Heart' - uhhh werewolves, need I say more?

Episode 18 'Hollywood Babylon' - another idk why

Episode 19 'Folsom Prison Blues' - two words, Blue. Steel.

Season 3:

Episode 3 'Bad Day At Black Rock' - Bela *Insert debby ryan meme*

Episode 5 'Bedtime Stories' - another fun one

Episode 6 'Red Sky at Morning' - Bela, my love!'

Episode 8 'A Very Supernatural Christmas' - Protective Dean, "You fudging touch me again, I'll fudging kill ya!"

Episode 11 'Mystery Spot' - GABE MY LOVE!!!!!!

Episode 13 'Ghostfacers' - GHOST- GHOSTFACERS, I also love that we see a whole different version of the Winchesters. (sweary)

Season 4:

Episode 1 'Lazarus Rising' - The beginning of the longest queerbaiting relationship ever

Episode 4 'Monster Movie' - do I really need to explain?

Episode 6 'Yellow Fever' - "I'll man the flashlight!"

Episode 7 ' It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester' - ngl the title makes no sense, and there is a reason, i just can't think of it.

Episode 8 'Wishful Thinking' - another fun episode, this is the episode that, that kid that killed his mum and set out to take the Canadian prime minster out is in.

Episode 12 'Criss Angel Is a Douche Bag' - *shrugs*

Episode 13 'After School Special' - BABY SAM, younger Dean 😏

Episode 14 'Sex and Violence' - BI DEAD BI DEAN BI DEAN BI DEAN

Episode 18 'The Monster at the End of This Book' - also *shrug*

Episode 19 'Jump the Shark' - ADAM!!!! Adam ☹️😢

Season 5:

Episode 5 'Fallen Idols' - another fun episode

Episode 6 'I Believe the Children Are Out Future' - JESSE!!!!! There was so much potential in this kid, we could have the greatest duo with Jesse and Jack.

Episode 7 'The Curious Case of Dean Winchester' - BI DEAD BI DEAN BI DEAN BI DEAN

Episode 8 'Changing Channels' - GABE MY LOVE!!!!!!!!

Episode 9 'The Real Ghostbusters' - fair enough

Episode 11 'Sam, Interrupted' - ✨therapy✨

Episode 12 'Swap Meat' - fun episode

Episode 14 'My Bloody Valentine' - "I don't like it!" "No one likes it."

Episode 17 '99 Problems' - "Not you. Or me. Sam of course is an abomination. We'll have to find someone else." & "Well, what is she, exactly?" "The whore." "Wow, Cas, tell us what you really think."

Episode 18 'Point of No Return' - ADAM!!!! Adam... ☹️😢

Episode 19 'Hammer of the Gods' - GABE!!!!! Gabe.... ☹️😢

Episode 21 'Two Minutes to Midnight' - OH, DEATH, OH, DEATH, OH, DEATH,

Episode 22 'Swan Song' - THE BEGINNIG OF MIADAM!!!! funny story, when i had an iPhone i had "Hey, Assbutt" as my text tone and it was almost as scary as when I had Obi-Wan's "Hello there"

Season 6:

Episode 3 'The Third Man' - BALTHAZAR MY LOVE!!!!!!!!

Episode 9 'Clap Your Hands If You Believe' - Souless!Sam is a dick but I kinda love him.

Episode 17 'My Heart Will Go On' - BALTHAZAR!!!!!!!! "Sorry, you have me confused with the other angel. You know, the one in the dirty trench coat who's in love with you."

Episode 18 'Frontierland' - Why is Elias kinda hot...?

Episode 19 'Mommy Dearest' - I just like the bar scene

Season 7:

Episode 1 'Meet the New Boss' - "And who says you speak for God? You're wrong. I am utterly indifferent to sexual orientation. On the other hand, I cannot abide hypocrites like you, Reverend." "Okay, fun's over, friend" "Tell your flock where your genitals have been before you speak for Me." "And who the heck are you?" "I'm God.", basically the whole church scene

Episode 5 'Shut Up, Dr. Phil' - It's just a funny episode

Episode 9 'How to Win Friends and Influence Monsters' - "I think you pissed off my sandwich."

Episode 14 'Plucky Pennywhistle's Magical Menagerie' - "Ha! I'm sorry, you look like you got attacked by some PCP-crazed strippers."

Episode 20 'The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo' -CHARLIE BABY!!!!!!

Episode 21 'Reading is Fundamental' - KEVIN MY LOVE!!!!!!

Season 8:

Episode 1 'We Need to Talk About Kevin' - That whole first scene, BENNY MY LOVE!!!!!!

Episode 2 'What's Up, Tiger Mommy?' - ALFIE!!!!!!!!! BENNY!!!!!!!

Episode 4 'Bitten' - outside perspectives are always funny

Episode 5 'Blood Brother' - BENNNY!!!! Vampirates.

Episode 6 'Southern Comfort' - GARTH!!!!!

Episode 7 'A Little Slice of Kevin' - KEVIN!!!! Dean isn't even trying to hide his gay.

Episode 8 'Hunteri Heroici' - I'll introgate the cat."

Episode 9 'Citizen Fang' - I hate this episode but yeah

Episode 11 'LARP and the Real Girl' - CHARLIE, MY LOVE!!!!!!

Episode 12 'As Time Goes By' - HENRY, MY LOVE!!!!!!

Episode 13 'Everybody Hates Hitler' - Adam Rose is in it, do i need to continue?

Episode 15 'Man's Best Friend with Benefits' - I hate witches but this ep is good.

Episode 20 'Pac-Man Fever' -

Episode 23 'Sacrifice' - The last scene and speech that Dean says to Sam.

Season 9:

Episode 1 'I Think I'm Gonna Like It Here' - GADDY!!!!!! MY BABY!!!!!!

Episode 4 'Slumber Party' - CHARLIE!!!!! TIIO!!!!!!

Episode 5 'Dog Dean Afternoon' - just a fun one, the pigeon is the best character in this episode.

Episode 7 'Bad Boys' - BABY DEAN BABY DEAN BABY DEAN

Episode 8 'Rock and a Hard Place' - "But when you get down to it, what's the big deal? Sure, there's the touching and the feeling all of each other, my hands everywhere, tracing every inch of her body. The two of us moving together, pressing, pulling, grinding, and then you hit that sweet spot and everything just builds, builds and builds until it all just... [Makes explosion noise] ...But the whole thing was just a little too sticky."

Episode 13 'The Purge' - Out of all of the creatures in this show the Pishtacos are my favourite.

Episode 15 '#thinman' - the return of the Ghostfacers, they're so gay for eachother.

Episode 16 'Blade Runners' - sexy

Episode 19 'Alex Annie Alexis Ann' - ALEX!!!!!!!

Season 10:

Episode 1 'Black' - DEMON!DEAN FOR THE WIN!!!!

Episode 2 'Reichenbach' - Demon Dean...

Episode 3 'Soul Survivor' - Demon Dean.

Episode 4 'Paper Moon' - KATE!!!!

Episode 5 'Fan Fiction' - Do I really need to explain why I like this one? 🎶"JOHN AND MARY, HUSBAND AND WIFE, BRINGING HOME A BRAND NEW LIFE, HIS NAME IS SAMMY, I'M BIG BROTHER DEAN"🎶

Episode 6 'Ask Jeeves' - the interactions are just really funny.

Episode 7 'Girls, Girls, Girls' - ROWENA!!!!!! the only witch I can stand.

Episode 8 'Hibbing 911' - JODIY AND DONNA SUPREMACY!!!!

Episode 12 'About a Boy' - Just a fun episode

Episode 13 'Halt & Catch Fire' - ghosts are always fun episodes

Episode 14 'The Executioner's Song' - the end of Cain

Episode 15 'The Things They Carried' - probably my favourite Cole episode.

Episode 16 'Paint It Black' - I just like this ep

Episode 19 'The Werther Project' - BENNY!!!!!!

Season 11:

Episode 4 'Baby' - self explained, i'd say.

Episode 5 'Thin Lizzie' - idk why

Episode 7 'Plush' - its just funny

Episode 8 'Just My Imagination' - 'She's got sparkle on her face!'

Episode 11 'Into the Mystic' -

Episode 12 'Don't You Forget About Me' - DAD DEAN DAD DEAN DAD DEAN DAD DEAN

Season 12:

Episode 6 'Celebrating the Life of Asa Fox' - It's just funny watching people react the way they do towards the boys.

Episode 8 'LOTUS' - ARTHUR!!!!!!

Episode 11 'Regarding Dean' - Considering that he was going to die this and the Zanna episode are my all time favourites.

Season 13:

Episode 1 'Lost and Found' - JACK!!!!!!! MY BABY!!!!!!!

Episode 2 'The Rising Son' - Jack means a lot to me.

Episode 4 'The Big Empty' - ✨therapy✨

Episode 6 'Tombstone' - GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY

Episode 10 'Wayward Sisters' - GIRLFRIENDS GIRLFRIENDS GIRLFRIENDS GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY

Episode 16 'Scoobynatural' - I like it when they give us a break from the on-going trauma filled story lines.

Season 14:

Episode 4 'Mint Condition' - fun episode

Episode 6 'Optimism' - fun episode

have you guys seen this yet? this is such a cool picture.

Season 15:

Episode 1 'Back and to the Future' - BELPHEGOR!!!!! (i only like Alex's version)

Episode 2 'Raising Hell' - a trip down memory lane

Episode 3 'The Rapture' - *shrugs*

Episode 7 'Last Call' - I just think its funny how Dean faked being able to sing for all those years, I assume to make Sam laugh.

Episode 8 'Our Father, Who Aren't In Heaven' - ADAM!!!!!!! MIDAM!!!!!!! THATS A RELATIONSHIP I WANNA JOIN!!! Oh and its a win for Destial too i guess.

Episode 15 'Gimme Shelter' - Jack & Dean bonding experience.

[sitron-sunni]

I watched the new episode of 9-1-1

a personal essay on queerbaiting (sorta)

I watched the new episode of 9-1-1, and immediately burst into tears as the credits started rolling.

Then I rewound the last six minutes, and watched the scene again, pausing to rewind the kiss. Again. And again. And again.

We got a kiss. I didn’t know we were getting a kiss. I sorta knew we were getting bi Buck, but I didn’t know we were getting a kiss. After last week’s episode, a lot of people were 100% convinced we were getting bi Buck. I saw their reactions before I watched that episode, too, and I was so confused once I finished it. Had we seen the same episode? That guy, Tommy, Buck’s so-called bisexual awakening-guy, was barely in there. He had about two memorable lines, and then he was in the background of a different shot, where he received a job-well-done slap on the shoulder from Buckley. That last one’s the one people were focusing on online. Look at the way this is framed, look at how he’s positioned, between Buck and Eddie. This is foreshadowing how he’s gonna get between them. Buck and Tommy is gonna be the gateway into buddie. They’re actually gonna do buddie, why else would they introduce a relationship between Buck and Tommy?

Reader, I’ll keep it straight with you. I did not believe them. After a while I gathered a lot of people already knew the name of the next episode; Buck, Bothered and Bewildered. They’d seen some stills, they knew there would be conflict and jealousy within that trio. They were putting it all together with comments and hints dropped by the actors. All those things added up, and it did paint a far more convincing picture. And I thought it was fun! I reblogged a few posts about it, I think, or at least I liked some. But the fact remains: I did not believe them. I thought, oh, imagine how cool it would be if they actually went there. I thought, yeah, realistically it would make sense to bring in a third person if they were actually gonna do it. That way they could test the waters, gauge audience response, and it could work as a catalyst for the relationship after so long. But mostly I thought Okay, so they’re gonna bring in Buck’s fear of not being enough for the people he loves again, this time through his friendship with Eddie, and we’re gonna get some sort of final resolution for that. Like, a big moment of catharsis. Or something along those lines, anyway. It just seemed to me like the most realistic thing that could happen. I mean, the idea of canon buddie was nice, of course it was! The queerbait is why I started watching the show in the first place: I wanted a good queerbait! But ultimately, a ship like that going canon was completely unrealistic. I speak from experience, after all.

Maybe it would’ve been different if I was younger. I remember being in fandoms when I was a teen. I remember reading theories, watching youtube-videos with “proof” that this or that was real, that it was gonna go canon. I remember getting my hopes up, thinking Oh my god what if they’re actually gonna do it!? for shows and pairings that, in hindsight, were completely unrealistic. Maybe that’s why I, even with fairly good evidence in front of me, didn’t actually get my hopes up this time. Because why be that stupid? Why invest emotionally like that? Why not just enjoy what we actually had instead, and then get anything extra from fanworks? Haven’t we learned by now?

I woke up this morning and opened tumblr, and I read half a sentence about how we actually have bisexual Buck confirmed canon now, before I quickly closed the app to avoid too detailed spoilers. Oh my god they were right! I can’t wait to watch the episode, I thought happily, and went on with my day. I opened the app again a few hours later, and scrolled for a few minutes, until I saw a brief glimpse of one, maybe one and a half gifs. Bucks face, Tommy’s face. Warm orange-y yellow lighting, Buck’s loft, you still owe me a beer. Close the app, move on. There were other posts throughout the day, more glimpses, all along the same lines as the first one. The last one came late in the evening, this time on twitter. Just the word in all caps; ANNOUNCEMENT, and then Bucks face and a bisexual pride flag.

And then finally, finally, after I’d brushed my teeth and gotten into bed, I was alone with my laptop, and I could watch the episode. The hype had built up, I was so excited to finally watch it. I was internally vibrating just a little bit. I was giggly, I was grinning widely, I was making comments to myself out loud, and laughing. I said oh my god, they’re really laying it on thick. I remember watching that scene for the first time and thinking how Tommy really looked so nervous at some points. That last one I found interesting. I really liked the actor’s portrayal; His facial expressions were quite subtle, and I thought he captured that nervous feeling so well. Maybe I took such notice of it because, well, I wasn’t quite expecting it.

I wasn’t expecting nervousness in an interaction between Buck and Tommy, because I still wasn’t actually expecting anything. At least I don’t think I was. Even with everything I’d seen online. Even as I was watching the show, I convinced myself. Those words, you still owe me a beer, they’ve misinterpreted them. They think it’s an invitation to a date because Buck’s jealousy in this episode is making it more plausible than ever before. Sure, the show’s leaning into it this time, but they’re gonna pull the rug out next episode. No, of course it wasn’t an invite to a date, what show were you watching, are you delusional? It’s just gonna be one week of people speculating and theorizing and building it up, and then the show’s gonna resolve it with some no-homo followed by a nice new buddie moment. The buzz will die down, and things will go back to normal.

And then the kiss happened. And then I burst into tears.

And now I think, oh my god isn’t it wild that they’re introducing a new romantic relationship for one of the main characters, and for the entire lead-up to the relationship, both Buck and Tommy are entirely focused on Eddie? Like, they’re just making everything about a third person! Imagine if they did this for anybody else! and, oh my god Tommy’s gonna break up with Buck because Buck’s basically already dating Eddie or something, isn’t he? and, oh my god it’s gonna be glorious! and, oh my god I can’t wait!

And I’m also thinking, I was wrong, and you were right. And I’m so happy I could cry.

TL;DR: If you and I share sterek, or destiel, or god knows what other similarly-shaped trauma, 9-1-1 might heal ya.