#power system analysis

[cpsystems]

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[grandwitchbird]

Dragon Age has been doing a really clever thing with its protagonists and the heroic power fantasy that only fully comes together when you look at the series as a whole, so let’s do another ramble. Under a cut to save your dash.

Origins is a traditional RPG power fantasy. It likes to tell you that it’s not by gesturing at Loghain and alluding to unreliable narratives, but what it shows is the power fantasy. No matter what your warden does, they’re the hero. Are you a casual genocide enthusiast? No problem you can still ride off into the sunset looking for a cure. Also hey you have a critical weakness/flaw (the calling) that kind of dooms you or gives you cause to vaguely ride of into the sunset. Very heroic indeed. There’s a layer of textual interest added by the presence of unreliable narratives, but ultimately it’s the hero’s choices that shape and determine the world and story, right down to very gamified relationships. The origins system itself, the fact that your warden could have been anyone, is the actual textual proof that this isn’t all that’s going on. It just only really gets paid off by later games, and that’s pretty important given where this franchise ended up.

—

Enter DA2. Hawke is a champion, not a hero. Hawke fights for those who can’t fight themselves. Hawke can’t save the world. They can’t even save their family or city. It’s a battle of attrition that sees them somehow worse off no matter what. The still-gamified but now more nuanced and challenging relationships become the focus because they’re really all Hawke has. Now the power fantasy is still lurking around the edges. It’s just challenged at every turn. You can free Kirkwall, but Anders is always going to blow up a church.

—

Which brings us to Inquisition. Somehow, you’re both as much of a nobody as Hawke and you’re responsible for more than the Warden. And it’s miserable. The power fantasy is constantly undermined. No matter who your inquisitor was, by the end of the game they’ve been completely subsumed by their role: turns out power has teeth.

In a move that delivers on the unreliable narrative throughline that Origins established and DA2 strengthened, the Inquisitor must play the hero and save the world. It doesn’t matter if your Inquisitor is a kind person doing their best or a racist power-hungry asshole, and that is now a systemic issue within the world itself. The erosion of your character’s personhood is explicit within the text as characters struggle to see you as more than your role and you’re asked to shape the faith of an entire world even if you don’t share that faith. The cost of this erosion is made incredibly literal with Ameridan’s story and then in Trespasser, where the anchor, both cause and symbol of the Inquisitor’s role and power, is killing them. Relationships become somewhat less gamified but more importantly, you’re given an explicit textual mirror in Solas. He’s there to reflect your behavior but also your loss of personhood to a role. It’s essential that he’s the one to save your life at the end of Trespasser. Even if you’ve never shown him a moment’s grace, here is your mirror to see you as a person one last time.

—

And then there’s Rook. Now we play a mirror to Solas, a character who has been the hero, Mythal’s champion, and a man subsumed by his role/s. He’s really the narrative gift that keeps giving.

We walk the dreadwolf’s path this time, and the dreadwolf is a classic tragic hero. He’s stuck in a story where he must save the world and where a critical flaw will always be his downfall. We’re Varric’s second who must step up to champion his cause after the events of the introduction. And we’re barely keeping ourselves together under the burden of leadership. And here is where Veilguard finally delivers everything this franchise ever promised. Because under all that we’re truly just some guy. Just like Solas is just a guy who got stuck in situations he never wanted. His response was to become the hero or play the villain (depending on the story) because that’s easier. But if Rook can truly choose the ‘hard truth’ that the world is never going to “stay fixed” (oh hi Inquisitor… and Hawke… and Warden) and that other people can have better ideas and make hard calls and their own choices? If we don’t have to ‘win’? Rook can reconcile the inevitable tragedies of this kind of story with their very human needs and escape the story altogether. The cost, of course, is the power fantasy.

[fallofthecelestial]

Okay. Since we're going over all the takes on Mr. X at this point.. What if his powers really don't have a backside. What if (the state of) his normal life is the backside.

What if his normal life is akin to that of heroes where he has to pretend to be something he's not and follow rules that the people who control his life came up with to further their own goals. What if he can only be free of other people's beliefs and expectations when he's a hero.

What if in reality he truly is like everyone else. The other heroes. The ordinary people. All those who work themselves to the bone, who are tired and overworked and sick of all the exploitation...

What if when he's in the form of the number one hero.. when he becomes the most sought after product on the hero market..

Is when he gains the freedom to truly be himself

[miirshroom]

Devil May Cry's Goddess of Time

Thinking about how it's just sortof accepted that there is a lion-headed omniscient god of time and space who distributes character upgrades? What's up with that?

Some pieces of information that I find relevant:

There is a Divinity Statue of the goddess of time located at a shrine within the grounds of Sparda's estate (DMC 5)

Sparda sacrificed a human priestess to seal the portal to the demon world at the Temen-ni-gru (DMC 3). There's only one identified goddess who holds authority in the setting, so she would have been a priestess of the Goddess of Time.

What I mean by the above is that there are no "angels" or reliance upon Judeo-Christian divinity in the DMC setting - anything that appears angelic is just a demon (DMC 4). The idea that "holy water" damages demons as established in DMC 1 could very well be an idea syncretized with the Shinto concept that running water and waterfalls are sacred and used for spiritual purification. Holy water is also an item purchased from the Goddess of Time, so it's pretty direct about which divinity it comes from.

The Yamato is also identified as a thing that seals the connection between the human and demon worlds (DMC 4). (Edit: and the Japanese for Vergil's "Void Slash" attack with the Yamato literally translates to "time-space fury flash" (DMC 5))

The Yamato represents the part of Sparda's power that "was named to embody a god of death" (DMC 5). Despite being phonetically pronounced as 'Yamato', it is known that "The Yamato's Japanese name is written as 'Enma Katana' (閻魔刀 Enmatō), referring to the Japanese name for the Hindu and Buddhist judge of the afterlife, 'Yama'" - wiki.

The goddess of time holds an hourglass, and outrunning the hourglass is connected to the idea of escaping samsara - the cycle of life, death, and rebirth (DMC 3, Mission 19)

So there's this famous text in Hinduism called the "Bhagavad Gita" that dates to the first or second century BCE. In the English language it is the origin of the Oppenheimer quote: "Now I am become death, destroyer of worlds", which is misrepresenting verse 11.32. The actual translation is something closer to "now I have become world-destroying time". As I understand it, the concepts of "time" and "death" are intertwined in a belief system based on reincarnation and cyclical history in such a way as to cause confusion with interpretation of the meaning when translated.

My impression of how this applies to Devil May Cry (at least as of the worldbuilding codified by DMC 3): Sparda bargained with the Goddess of Time for the power to separate the human and demon worlds. What Sparda got out of the bargain is embodied in the Yamato. And what the Goddess of Time got from the bargain is that Sparda and all of his descendants are obligated to deliver to her demon blood and are bound to the cycle of life-death-rebirth (i.e. the videogame mechanic of being able to re-try a level over and over again) until she decides to release them into death.

[khattikeri]

unironically if yue qingyuan were a girl but shen jiu were still a boy, people would scrutinize shen jiu's petty viciousness toward her for their idealistic infeasible broken childhood promise soooo much harder than they do for canon yue qingyuan. like gee. i love qi/jiu as much as the next guy but do we wanna unpack that

[demodraws0606]

I'm starting to think people just odn't really like Two as a character bc all the conversation I hear people about them is just :

-I wish they were their past smug self (something that was barely established). Completely ignoring the fact that Two DOES get angry and upset at the cast, like TPOT 14 is right there it's not that old !!

-Woobifies them into just being a cute little creature which they are but like come on, see first point they DO get angry at contestants.

-MISGENDERS THEM, HOW DO YOU MISGENDER YOUR SUPPOSED FAVORITE CHARACTER I DONT UNDERSTA-

[boyfriendgideon]

as yr favorite local jason todd fan sometimes i get so fed up with the apparent inability of most dc comic writers to write a class conscious narrative about him.

and yes, i know that comics are a very ephemeral and constantly evolving and self-conflicting medium.

and yes, i know they’re a profit-driven art medium created in a capitalistic society, so there are very few times where comics are going to be created solely out of the desire to authentically and carefully and deliberately represent a character and take them from one emotional narrative place to another, because dc cares about profit and sometimes playing it safe is what sells.

and yes, i know comics and other forms of art reflect and recreate the society within which they were conceived as ideas, and so the dominant societal ideas about gender and race and class and so on are going to be recreated within comics (and/or will be responded to, if the writer is particularly societally conscious).

but jesus christ. you (the writer/writers) have a working class character who has been homeless, who has lost multiple parents, who has been in close proximity to someone struggling with addiction, who has had to steal to survive, who may have (depending on your reading of several different moments across different comics created by different people) been a victim of csa, who has clearly (subtextually) struggled with his mental health, who was a victim of a violent murder, and who has an entirely distinct and unique perspective on justice that has evolved based on his lived experiences.

and instead of delving into any of that, or examining the myriad of ways that classism in the writers’ room and the editors’ room and the readers’ heads affected jason’s character to make sure you’re writing him responsibly, or giving him a plotline where his views on what justice looks like are challenged by another working class character, or allowing him to demonstrate actual autonomy and agency in deciding what relationships he wants to have with people who he loves but sees as having failed him in different ways, or thinking carefully about what his having chosen an alias that once belonged to his murderer says about his decision-making and motivations, you keep him stuck in a loop of going by the red hood, addressing crime by occupying a position of relative power that perpetuates crime & harm rather than ever getting at the root causes, and seesawing between a) agreeing with his adoptive family entirely about fighting nonlethally in ways that are often inconsistent with his apparent motivations or b) disagreeing and experiencing unnecessarily brutal and violent reactions from his adoptive father as if that kind of violence isn’t the kind of thing he experienced as a child and something bruce himself is trying to prevent jason from perpetuating. because a comic with red hood, quips, high stakes, and familial drama sells.

it doesn’t matter if it keeps jason trapped, torn between an unanswered moral and philosophical question, a collection of identities that no longer fit him, and a family that accepts him circumstantially. it doesn’t matter if jason’s characterization is so utterly inconsistent that the only way to mesh it together is to piece different aspects of different titles and plotlines together like a jigsaw. it doesn’t matter if you do a disservice to his character, because in the end you don’t want to transform him or even understand him deeply enough to identify what makes him compelling and focus on that.

and i love jason!!!!! i love him. and i think about the stories we could have, if quality and art and doing justice to the character were prioritized as much as selling a title and having a dark and brooding batfam member besides bruce just to be the black sheep character are prioritized. and i just get a little sad.

[troythecatfish]

A simple guide to Nen ( Hunter x Hunter )

[mania-sama]

Repetition in Mondstadt (Genshin Impact Analysis)

In response to @sleepytwyla42's request for my thoughts in Old Mondstadt, I present you this: something that is not quite Old Mondstadt but kind of sort of is. If you squint. :)

One of the most common and sensible theories for Genshin Impact's main storyline is that the Traveler is going to return to Mondstadt for, essentially, Round 2 of Archon quests. This is backed namely by the fact that the Mondstadt storyline feels very unfinished, especially in comparison to the other nations. There are several mysteries left yet to unfold, with their proximity to Khaenri'ah being one and the upside-down tainted Anemo Statue of the Seven being another. However, I'd like to present a slightly different point of view on why we are probably going to be returning to Mondstadt before this game is over:

Mondstadt's theme of repetition. Yes, I think it has even Sumeru beat out on this theme. Here's why.

Everybody knows the story of Old Mondstadt and Decarabian. It's fairly straightforward: Decarabian, the god of storms, and Andrius, the north wind (god of ice and snow, if you wish to interpret it that way) get into a small war with each other during the chaotic, power-struggle time period overall known as the Archon War. Andrius covers the land now known as Mondstadt in ice and snow, making it virtually uninhabitable by humans, which causes Decarabian to gather his followers/people into a sectioned-off area. He encases his segment in protective winds, and although it does a good job of keeping out the cold, he also completely traps his people inside. They cannot escape (for the most part), he treats them terribly, hides in his tower to "watch" over them, and is overall an evil tyrant. When evil tyrants rule, revolutions tend to happen. After encouragement from a small wind sprite giving a blessing to a group of Gunnhildr's that left Decarabian's land to live in the cold, Mondstadt's people uprise and overthrow Decarabian's rule. No, we do not know where Decarabian is now. We are not quite sure where his body is or how they managed to contain such a powerful god.

Anyway, now that we have a brief summary of Old Mondstadt, it is time to move to what happens next. Decarabian's (ex) followers all leave to live in the little sprite-blessed town called Mondstadt. The wind sprite strikes up a deal with Andrius; Andrius stops terrorizing the land and gives up his title of Anemo Archon to Barbatos, and Barbatos proceeds to terraform the land to be more habitable to his newfound people. These people pack up and move to Cider Lake, which is then terraformed to keep the city strategically protected.

Now we have (New?) Mondstadt and the Anemo Archon. Here is where our repetition begins.

The Genshin Impact manga depicts two times of Mondstadt's history: one, the Era of Aristocracy, which was Venessa's early life in Mondstadt as a slave battling for her freedom. The second is Diluc and Kaeya's timeline, about 3-4 years before the main timeline events, where their father dies, they fight, and Diluc defects. For right now, we will focus on the Era of Aristocracy.

Here is this thing about aristocracy: it doesn't come out of nowhere. Generally speaking, based on actual human history, ruling clans, factions, and families tend to come from the early founders of a certain city/state/nation. They could also come from the noble classes of other cities/states/nations, and they just use their wealth, power, and status to establish dominance in whatever region they are taking over. Really, truly, the whole of Mondstadt is pretty reminiscent of French and English history.

To tie into Mondstadt: Really, truly, the whole of this nation is pretty reminiscent of French and English history. We see that Decarabian is overthrown by the people. What we don't see, at first, is that the ones leading the charge would later become the major and minor noble clans. Some of them probably already were noble families (case in point, the Gunnhildrs probably were. They most likely used some sect of their power to escape the storms and brave the Monstadt's snowy wasteland). A tyrannical ruler is never going to rule alone. They are always going to have an upper noble class that they have in their pocket to quell the common people and stomp out uprisings. You have to have friends to defeat your enemies. Or, you want to keep those wealthy who are happy, appealing to other proverb keep your friends close but your enemies closer. The noble class can kill you. Typically, peasants cannot.

Until the peasants do kill you. In this case, they probably still did have help from some rich people. See: the likelihood of the Gunnhildr family being high nobles. MOVING ON.

So three big clans established Mondstadt on Cider Lake with the blessing of freedom and independence from Barbatos: Gunnhildr, Lawrence, and Imunlaukr (which seems to have faded into obscurity in modern Mondstadt, but I digress). You may be thinking: what about Ragnvindr? I imagine they were a noble class at this time, along with many unnamed ones; they were likely lesser nobles and weren't those founding Mondstadt like the big three.

What do nobles do when they gain power? That's right. THEY BECOME TRYANTS! Even though Barbatos gave them their independence to escape tyranny, rich people did what rich people do best and they became rulers and tyrants. This is where we see the first major repetition come into play in Mondstadt's history. Even though they all knew of Decarabian's tyranny like the back of their hand, history still repeated itself. Like it always doomed to do.

And like Venti is always doomed to do, he wakes from his slumber to give his blessing to his people to overthrow the tyrannical Lawrence clan. As for the other clans, people tend to herald the Gunnhildr clan mainly for being awesome and helping the people, but they were still a clan that did NOTHING until the common people revolted. Which is also pretty common in real-life history. Rich clans tend to only cash in when it seems profitable, and in order to not be exiled with the "bad guys", even though their inaction was still aiding the tyranny (proverb: "Evil persists when good people do nothing"),

We come to the modern day, where the clans are still evident in different ways. While the Lawrence clan and Imunlaukr clans have both lost significant power and relevance (due to their previous exile) and are more just an occasional societal nuisance, the Gunnhildr and Ragnvindr clans are still extremely prevalent in modern society. And while I am not saying that either of them is going to repeat their ancestors' mistakes any time soon (moreso Diluc than Jean, no hate to my queen though, it's just the archetype of intense, overworked protection leading to Accidental Tyranny), it still shows that Mondstadt cannot let go of the scars of the past. Their aristocracy still exists, it just breathes a different air.

It seems inevitable that one day, it will be the Gunnhildr's turn to be tyrannical. It's just how this thing goes. Or, someone else is going to come in and take over to terrorize the Mondstadt citizens. I am going to use this as a shitty transition into the second repetition: Dvalin and Durin.

By the time Dvalin comes around, the Archon War is finished and done with. This also means that dragons are Not Liked by General Populous, so nobody really likes this new, innocent creature. Nobody tries to befriend it. Except for, well, Venti. Venti and Dvalin the Dragon become friends. They are ride or DIE, okay. And then the abyss strikes.

While Mondstadt's people fight a war on the ground by sending out a squadron to the apparent source of the abyssal monsters (Khaenri'ah), Venti and Dvalin fight a sky(?) war against the Khemia-dragon named Durin, who is most notable for being Evil, corrupted by the Abyss, and for terrorizing the citizens of Mondstadt. Dvalin and Venti manage to defeat Durin, but not without grave hits to their health. They both seem to follow the path of deep slumber to recover from the abyssal corrosion they suffered from the fight. And while Venti seemed to heal... Dvalin, with an immense lack of Venti's archon power, is not so lucky.

Dvalin is then woken from his slumber and his abyssal corrosion from his fight 500 years ago is used to by the Abyss to be Evil and terrorize the citizens of Mondstadt. Sound familiar? Yes, because this is the second major repetition. While it isn't the exact same circumstances, it is still similar. Proper measures were not taken to root out evil (like the Mondstadt aristocracy), and thus, evil came back with a vicious bite. Thankfully, the Traveler's ability to cure abyssal corrosion seems to have solved the biggest of these issues. Still don't know what's going on with Durin's heart, though. That's kind of. Concerning.

But on the topic of dragons, we do have another pretty important and relevant repetition, which concerns both the first and the second half of the Genshin Impact manga, and now with our favorite evil organization: the Fatui!

The Era of Aristocracy is a painful time in Mondstadt's history. It is also a point in time when Ursa the Drake was roaming around Mondstadt. For those unaware, the creature drake is essentially just a dragon/dragon-like animal. So, by accordance to our pre-established rules, Ursa was not very well liked at this point. She was also a bit of a foul creature, unlike Dvalin, who was pretty innocent and unassuming at his point of roaming Teyvat originally.

Vanessa and her tribe run into Ursa the Drake while traveling in the Mondstadt wilderness, which is what leads to their seeking of refugee, capture, and subsequent enslavement by the high nobles in Mondstadt on Cider Lake. They do eventually have to fight Ursa the Drake again in the gladiator-type arena while attempting to win their freedom, and while they think they've killed Ursa, they've merely driven her away.

Which is why she comes back, 1000 years later. Ursa the Drake serves as sort of our third and fourth repetition. For now, I will just focus on the third major repetition: the mere fact of her return. Just like always, something that is not properly vanquished will come back to bite in Mondstadt. And so it does: Ursa does not merely terrorize a group of traveling tribesmen. Ursa indirectly kills Crepus, Diluc's father, which leads to a massive political scandal. Eroch, a high-ranking member of the Knights of Favonius, tries first to make Diluc take credit for killing Ursa (at this point in time, Ursa had only been driven away again, not killed). Eroch suggests this because Diluc, newly 18 - quite literally, it was his birthday - and promoted in the Knights, was the only one there at the time of Crepus' death. Diluc, enraged by the suggestion, promptly quits the Knights and flees Mondstadt entirely after a fight with his adopted brother, Kaeya. Eroch takes claim for the defeat, but that is quickly uprooted and dismissed.

As I've repeated, nothing that is not killed comes back. Nothing that is not defeated will bite. Ursa does not come back again, but she is killed by a Fatui Harbinger: Il Dottore, the Doctor, the Second of the Eleven Fatui Harbingers. And the big thing to understand about Dottore is that he is not a dumb man; he does not do something nice for the sake of nicety. No. This action of eliminating a major threat to Mondstadt makes Mondstadt indebted to Snezhnaya and the Fatui Harbingers.

You all have (presumably) played the Archon Quest. You know that the major point of concern for our leaders of Mondstadt is to make sure that the Fatui have no hand in eliminating Dvalin. That would put them in an incredibly horrendous position with Snezhnaya, and they could not afford it. Hence, our fourth major repetition: a dragon that terrorizes Mondstadt and leads to immense pressure from Mondstadt and the Fatui Harbingers. A problem that is not killed or defeated coming to bite them in the ass, as always.

It is also at this point that Venti makes a reappearance in Mondstadt. He wakes up again to help his people, as he always does when it is apparent their freedom is in danger. So far, this has been recorded in these instances (excluding the Archon War/and the years following. Only starting from when he first relinquished full freedom to his people): the Era of Aristocracy, the Cataclysm, and the Stormterror.

... But it really isn't Stormterror, is it? Because we know that Dvalin was never really out to kill anybody. He was being hurt and manipulated. That situation is quite unlike the Cataclysm, in which he likely also received a calling from Celestia and the other gods to, I don't know, do something??????????? So it can't just be Stormterror. Venti knows that his people's freedom is at stake.

And, well, that Abyss issue was never really resolved in Mondstadt, was it? Durin's heart is still beating, Venti's statue is corroded and upside-down, and the hilichurls and other Abyssal creatures still have strongholds and are forming true offenses against Mondstadt. And the Fatui are still, you know, around. They were never defeated. Only minorly wounded, a mere setback in their plan.

If I know anything about Mondstadt, it is that their oversights will eat them alive.

At least Barbatos is sticking around for this one.

[petrichormore]

(It’s time for a 4halo ramble and analysis into their current relationship! Everything that follows is about the characters, I’m not using the q! because I’m lazy. I also want to repeat that while I am a 4halo shipper this entire rant is me explaining why I don’t want them to get together right now or anywhere in the near future. I don’t really consider this 4halo neg but let me know if you want me to tag it as such - they have the chemistry and in a distant future I could see it - but the fluffy 4halo that everyone seems to be imagining right now? I can’t see it happening. Toxic 4halo is another story entirely though and not what this ramble is about)

Okay you have been warned (THIS IS LONG):

not saying I’m not a huge 4halo enjoyer because. I am. But I do hope they don’t actually “become canon” or get into a relationship for the foreseeable future. Because the only realistic way that will end is in a giant, heart-wrenching break-up after like. 2 weeks. And I don’t see the ship recovering from that I’m gonna be honest.

Look. They can barely communicate as they are right now, any kind of committed relationship between them would end in fire and brimstone - especially when you take into account the power imbalance that is already causing problems.

Forever has not apologized for jailing Bad, even though Bad has asked for it (a rare show of communication on his part) and he might not apologize ever because he thinks he’s in the right. Somehow Cellbit is the only one to have apologized despite being the one calling for Bad’s head the most during the actual furniture incident. Anyway, Bad knows Forever thinks he’s in the right. And Bad also knows Forever wielded his presidential power to keep him jailed - so if Forever’s not sorry and he believes he was right, what’s to stop him from doing it again - in Bad’s mind, that is. There are actually quite a few things keeping him from doing it again, chief among them being that he doesn’t want to lmao. But Bad wouldn’t know that, would he?

I just- The imprisonment hurt Bad’s trust in everyone so badly that he destroyed every waystone in his base - and he when he found out Pac had someone gotten in anyway, he destroyed the waystone again. I don’t think people understand how long he’s been contemplating doing that. I don’t think people understand how many times he’s decided against destroying his waystones. It takes a pretty big fuck up to get him to do that. It takes a fuck-up of pretty tremendous proportions. And he did that last bit with Pac extremely recently too, which means he hasn’t forgotten.

And that - the whole furniture fiasco - that’s not a misstep that will just smooth over if Bad and Forever just care about each other hard enough. They already care about each other deeply - it didn’t stop the conflict. It’s not something everyone can just sweep under the rug with the power of love and no actual communication. Or at least I hope it’s not. It shouldn’t be. Any relationship the two get into right now will be steeped in distrust and wariness on Bad’s part due to the amount of power Forever can choose to use against him at any moment. And even if Forever hadn’t imprisoned him, that would still probably be the case, albeit to a much lesser extent. But Forever did imprison him, so now Bad’s not only wary of Forever turning on him in a hypothetical sense - he has past experience with that exact scenario. He has reason to distrust. It’s not paranoia in this instance; it’s genuine, rational distrust, which is even harder to alleviate.

By the way, that’s not even taking into account that Bad now knows of the existence of a drug that can brainwash Forever into potentially abusing his power against his own will. Think about how scary we all thought the drug-induced marriage proposals were. Think about how much scarier it would’ve been if Bad and Forever had actually been dating at the time. I’m not going to get into the risus potion here, or what implications it has for Bad’s trust in Forever - or more accurately, the trust he has in Forever’s position of power - because that’s too fucking complicated for my silly brain right now and this is long enough.

So basically: how is a relationship between a president and an anarchist supposed to work? Is Bad supposed to shut up, abandon his core principles, and do whatever Forever wants? When he opposes/attempts to help Forever improve the voting system he’s not being ‘immature’ - he’s acting in perfect accordance with his own belief system. There are points where he does act antagonist in an immature manner but in those instances he is very obviously being dramatic on purpose (and Forever does it as well). Him thinking Forever’s voting system isn’t fair isn’t him being immature, it’s just him being politically opposed. And Forever - what about Forever? Is Forever supposed to throw away his entire presidency? Oh, Bad’s an anarchist so that means Forever has to give up everything he’s worked so hard to accomplish, all the plans he has, all the good he’s desperately trying to do despite the fact that the nature of his position is scaring his loved ones away? He’s supposed to let everyone boss him around? Just because his crush hates government? Really? See, none of these options sounds particularly healthy, but their friendship isn’t even healthy right now so I can’t see them somehow reaching a better alternative.

Idk if you couldn’t tell I don’t like it when people non-jokingly boil down Bad and Forever’s political arguments as something that’ll be solved if one of them gives in or apologizes. Because they won’t. Because neither of them is wrong. Forever was partially right when he told Bagi that nothing he does as president will ever satisfy Bad - Bad is an anarchist, the fact that a government has been forced on him in the first place is already a fundamental problem - and that’s not wrong of him! It’s a genuine difference in beliefs and neither of them is wrong! Bad is not somehow automatically wrong because he’s an anarchist, and Forever is not somehow automatically wrong because he’s the president. Grrr bark woof grr bark, etc… you get what I mean.

(TLDR; if 4halo becomes canon right now it’ll crash and burn instantly and kill everyone on board which I don’t want to happen. Therefore I don’t wish for it to be canon.)

[nomsfaultau]

One of the larger miscommunications between scp Tubbo and The Blade (of which there are frankly many) that I think really shapes Tubbos’ perception is the difference between their similar power systems. Because with Tubbo they have a massive choice in who is in the Hivemind, and assume The Blade chose to be the vessel of a violent god. Potentially they even think he allowed every single voice in, probably via evilly and non consentually going around ripping people apart to join The Blade’s Hivemind, given Tubbos’ traumatic associations with Collecting and how they equate The Blade with senseless violence. This category is more in the lines of casual assumptions not really considered, more subconscious than anything. I feel like this could be cleared up pretty easily.

What IS more of a problem is that Tubbo is fairly in control of who is fronting in the Hivemind (too controlling even). Even more crucially, Tubbo doesn’t understand that The Blade does NOT have control of his own body in certain conditions* and so legitimately couldn’t stop The Blood God from disabling Tubbo. Meanwhile The Blade feels kinda bad (and actually will have a crisis once he learns some crucial information, but spoilers) but ultimately feels like it isn’t fully his fault. He takes responsibility for his actions, but not necessarily the entire blame because that was The Blood God, not him.

But to Tubbo, it reads as ‘oh no it’s not REALLY my fault I nearly killed you because the evil person I chose to have in my skull was fronting (something that I could have stopped if I cared enough to)’ because that’s what it would mean if it was Tubbo who’d hurt someone.

Which. Yeah. Obviously the problem is far greater than that misunderstanding, but the stark differences between their headmate systems certainly isn’t helping.

[il3x]

Genuinely the fans who are like "ohhhh worm is so cool ohhh power and escalation" BAFFLE me. Especially when they're hardcore Who Would Win numerical power rankers. Like

>S-class citywide threat >this next villain ups the power level so much!!! >look inside >S-class citywide threat

I think it's a case of being blinded by the finale. You blow up ONE multiverse...

[fumifooms]

Onis, cannibalism and the above-divine power of human conscience in Touge Oni

"It can only be referred to as the curse or by its ancient name, kidou (Way of the oni). It is the greatest, mightiest and most abominable power of all humankind. The source of the ??? selfish prosperity accomplished through the relentless reaping of the harvest that is the people. It [is] a be[???] formless concept but it is the foundation on which civilizations and t[he ???] kami are built. What must be done, I do not know. It will not suffice to merely kill and be rid of it, it must be taken." -Sansei Shounin Kozumi

Hello! Short opener because I want to get straight into it- Have you read Touge Oni? If you haven’t, stop right the fuck here and go read it!!!!!!!! Go read it go go go!!!!!!!!! With that said, I’ve been having this thought since vol 5~6 but I just did a full reread before going into reading volume 7 and I am only more confident now. Because of the nature of this analysis, word choices are very important, there is no official english translation currently and although I also read the manga in french, there is a high quality english translation by Penny Theater, thank you! The pages shown here are theirs.

There are 2 sections here to cover: what are onis and what is the power that be: what gives onis credence at all, what gives the oni curse power, what gives gods power. Going into these two things points us towards an answer to perhaps our current biggest question in the story— what the hell is the oni curse?

About Onis

So, first I think we have to acknowledge the real life counterparts to the beings and beliefs Touge Oni references. In our real world, En-no-Ozuna, or En-no-Gyoja, is a half-historical half-legendary person that is credited for the creation of Shugendō, a religion. With this knowledge there’s a lot of fun links that can be made with the story, like how its religious practice involves hiking through mountain ranges (Touge Oni: oni of the [mountain] pass). Or how, Zenki (Zen’s alias) and Goki (future-Miyo’s alias in the first chapters) in legends are (mountain) onis that En-no-Gyoja rallied to his side, they pledged to renounce their evil and follow him. Shugendō means "the path of training and testing", which is also very reminiscent of themes the story has been pointing towards. "Let us, then, be up and doing, with a heart for any fate".

Ehem, all this to say, shugendō is a religion that’s very syncretic, which means it combines ideas a lot of different religions and schools of thought, including buddhism, taoism (remember that En-no-Ozuna in the story is referred to as an unaffiliated daoist monk), ainu beliefs and shintoism. For the purpose of this analysis, (including my lack of finding shugendō ressources about onis) that means it doesn’t narrow down what interpretations of onis may be relevant. In Touge Oni, many beliefs and religions similarly coexist pretty much seamlessly, and it even references several ancient texts on deities and whatnot, and the "canon" on the details of onis is pretty much unheard of from my research. I’m not a religious or Japan expert by any means but I know just enough to affirm that this sort of mix and mash is accurate to the era, beliefs coexist in ways that are sometimes not cut and clean. For this analysis I went diving into the wikipedia for onis and let me tell you that was an example of this, buddhism, shintoism, folktales, without mentioning non-japanese cultural equivalents subtypes and influences— there are so many variations of onis through time.

All this to say…! We can’t rely on historical depictions of onis to solve this, there’s no cheat code, we have to analyze through what Touge Oni gives us for the answers we seek. Even Touge Oni tells us how onis can refer to different things, oni not only being used for man-eating monsters but also for ‘eccentric people’, those who don’t fit in, those who people want to villify and dehumanize. Nevertheless, from the humble amount of research I did, I found a couple of real life examples that can give us something to work with:

— Akiko Baba classifies onis into five categories: 1: Folklore onis, associated with ancient ancestral spirits, especially earth spirits. 2: Onis associated with religions held by people living in mountainous areas, like the yamabushi (who follow shugendō!!! Yamabushi meaning, those who lie down in the mountain). (Baba-san please tell me your sources I need to find any sources on Shugendō-specific onis… Are you just talking about Zenki and Goki?!!) 3: Onis linked to buddhism, like evil demons (jakki) and devil figures from outside cultures like yakshas and rakshasas. 4: Human onis, bandits or violent people who became onis as divine punishment. 5: Onis from transformation stories, where someone transforms into an oni because of intense resentment or anger, especialy in nō theater.

You’ll notice here that many of these have interesting implications for Touge Oni onis, especially the human oni category! But also how Zen notably succumbs to his violent rage against Shounin has some similar implications to the transformation oni, and of course there’s the yamabushi oni, which as far as my research went mostly means onis who can be "tamed". Onis eating humans isn’t a constant, but it’s a very common (and often central) aspect of their presence as a myth.

— Lafcadio Hearn in his book Shokunjinki ("the man-eating oni") says that "those who have been greedy of their living are supposed to become gakis (starving spirits)" before falling into the Gakidō (the kingdom of starving spirits) after their death.

So here it’s greed that corrupts. This will be more topical in the conclusion section of my analysis, but for now let’s just piece all of this together and remember that there is half nature and half nurture to onis in most myths that are relevant to us here, half earned and half innate. In versions like in Touge Oni where onis were humans before being changed, they started out the same as anybody but through immoral actions or negative emotions have transformed into literal monsters, either as divine punishment or just the innate corrupting nature of their acts or feelings. Cannibalism is most definitely an immoral action haha, with or without the concept of sin, so this slots neatly into that. So that’s the earned half— But once you become an oni, something has been innately changed within your being, even if your actions were your own as a human— and like in Touge Oni, it’s not unheard of than an oni would want to reform themselves, but still quite uncommon for them to be able to or invited to, En-no-Ozuno’s act like in the legend to extend a helping hand to onis, offering to direct their life towards good, and for the onis to accept and join him… This is a big act of faith in these onis, these people, in that they haven’t been warped enough that they can’t enact any free will for good anymore.

Okay! Lastly for the only irl-historical section of this analysis… The onis in the oni village call themselves ayo-no-oni, or in its full name Ayo-no-Sato-no-Oni. It’s a one-eyed, man-eating oni that’s the oldest verifiable depiction of an oni in japanese literature (Izumo-no-Kuni Fudoki). Thank you Penny Theater! Fun fact, one of the irl origins for onis is thought to be miners and such, so the onis here being metal workers who have injured eyes from their work is a fun detail.

Okay, that’s all the obligatory context out of the way… Now, onto the mystery of the Touge Oni.

Cannibalism is the sole thing known to turn people into onis. Only humans become onis, and the only way to do so is eat human flesh. Like mister monk here, I think the oni curse being divine punishment in a strict sense is unlikely — and was disproven in the manga. But even then it doesn’t feel like the oni curse truly has morality attached to it, it seems like just a… Phenomenon. Uninterested in the circumstances around those it afflicts and impartial in how and who it develops and hounds.

And well… As we see soon enough, the kamis have no power over onis’ state. Like En-no-Ozuno points out it’s very unexpected, the extent to which kamis, especially ookamis and especially Hitokotonushi, should be unlimited, but it seems that this curse of the onis’ even has power over the kamis, is above them, something almost higher than gods in the hierarchy of the laws of the universe, maybe an innate energy or power of the world, like life.

Incidentally, there’s something that humans have and nothing else does, which could explain why the curse only affects humans, a power that becomes central to the story… Something like mantra.

Additional info would be that in Touge Oni, an oni’s horns have a huge focus on them. They’re often referred to as if they are what holds the curse, maybe are the origin of it, where the seed of the curse is planted, like if the horns fall from your head then the curse will just leave you as well. They’re the only visible trait of an oni in most cases, the first and most iconic one at least, and En-no-Ozuno has designed a way to "block" them from appearing through putting a hoop on blood vessels, to which Shounin points out that you can also block their "murderous urge" and "madness" in the same way, perhaps in a process akin to blocking chi flow, a concept that exists in some forms of medicine like acupuncture. The exact mental effects of being an oni are unknown, it’s implied that being an oni comes with side-effects of violent urges and a short temper, but we see with the village of onis that that’s not exactly… Relevant, or noticeable? A lot of this more fragile mental state could logically be attributed to what would push you to commit cannibalism in the first place, famine and horrible conditions that put you in a survival of the fittest mode, trauma and extreme circumstances. So in the end, the finer points of what it means to be an oni in-world are left vague. Different degrees of transformation exist, so to speak. Future-Zen in the capital chapter grows to an enormous size. The appearance of horns onto someone eating human flesh is immediate.

About mantra

From the very start, Touge Oni places a lot of emphasis on the power of language.

Even every chapter ends with records of the sacred treasures being made/shown, religious writings and information archiving. The story references older stories for its own era, and also it very much has a meta dimension to it (that it spells out at the camera with its diegetic fourth wall breaking and timetravel shenanigans-), Touge Oni is a story from the old past of our real world reaching us readers through a book.

The manga ends up talking about philosophy a LOT, and strives to teach a way to think of life where you become aware of the gigantic infinite cosmic scale of the universe and without forgetting or undermining the meaning in a life, the joy to be had in the small things and deciding your own fate. These two aspects of the story, the importance of communication and philosophy, make the entrance of the concept of "mantra" (呪) fitting, smoothens it with coherence and intuition both.

Mantras are thoughts, concepts, wants and will all wrapped into one word. Mantra is your conscience. Mantra is soul. Mantra is kidou.

Kamis see things like bonds between people, Sadera’s zenmiyo shipping goggles etc, and similarly Ookuninushi says that Miyo has a nice mantra after meeting her and it’s… Well, it’s vague, we’re unsure what to make of it, in meaning and measure. Most direct and substantiated theory imo is that she has nice willpower and life philosophy, like when she talks to Susanoo and he takes an immediate liking to her because of her words about life and joy and how to find happiness even in cosmic insignificance. But still! Vague as hell, in good part due to just how wide of a concept mantra is, even just hard to wrap your head around it and visualize it fully.

In the end it’s a pretty abstract concept, so there’s still much to finetune about how it acts and the philosophy around it. For example, Hitokotonushi says this about the nature of wishes and mantras.

The nature of wishes and the nature of mantra… Perhaps she means how Zen understanda how a want affects the whole of the world, that everything is give and take and that when taking balance doesn’t stay the same. Something gained somewhere is something lost elsewhere, like in the ukei, gaining ground and ressources are things enemy man-grass cannot have, and all these things that Miyo taught them and did for them are things for which they in turn attributed to her, it generated thoughts and emotions and worship and mantra, Miyo gave and they gave back.

Mantras can be seen as the power to grant wishes… Interesting indeed. In this way, mantra, like worship points in the ukei, could rather be seen as an unlimited ressource that humans generate. Then, maybe it’s more that Zen wishing for Miyo’s feelings to be changed would be suppressing her mantra, rather than taking, disrupting the flow of this mysterious, powerful energy… Like disrupting chi.

But let’s step back! Kamis are made of mantra, "humans brought them forth through mantras and gave them forth". And THIS is why when a kami has less worshippers and gets less worship, less reverence and thoughts from people, they become smaller and weaker, enough that now most kamis can’t step outside their shrines, enough that some become microscopic when completely forgotten— Wait why are kanjis making up atoms and the fabric of the universe?

Let’s remember that when Miyo got smaller than microscopic, smaller than atoms, the essence of matter and time was writing characters. The kanjis here move, they seem alive almost. There is something divine about human language, human thought, in its essence. Many times we see how important consciousness and thoughts and will are important within the world of Touge Oni, how the concept of them exists and lives as a force. This is a kami talking abotu what resides in a black hole- death and nothingness yet everything that is.

Who knows how much mantra truly has power over! Fascinating. But see, while having people’s indifference as a kami is bad, having their hate is worse. Like Hitokotonushi states, humans’ terror for kamis have turned into a plague over kamis. Hitokotonushi is an impossibly powerful kami that is by that virtue terrifying, and perhaps more importantly is a easy target for anger- with infinite power to grant wishes yet only grants wishes from people who successfully climb her mountain, even granting harmful wishes. The jealousy, the frustration, the injustice— there are so many reasons why Hitokotonushi would become a target for negative emotions, so many reasons she would have to flee to the moon to be far enough from humans, in fear of their sole mind’s will’s power.

So humans, their worship, mantra, people’s thoughts and feelings and conceptualization of a kami, are what gives kamis their status and power, and also what takes it away. Even more than simply taking what they have away, what they have given in the first place, mantra can curse.

Let’s remember the description of kidou by Shounin that I opened this analysis with. "It can only be referred to as the curse or by its ancient name, kidou (Way of the oni). It is the greatest, mightiest and most abominable power of all humankind. The source of the ??? selfish prosperity accomplished through the relentless reaping of the harvest that is the people. It [is] a be[???] formless concept but it is the foundation on which civilizations and t[he ???] kami are built. What must be done, I do not know. It will not suffice to merely kill and be rid of it, it must be taken."

Kidou is mantra. The foundation on which civilizations and kamis are built. The mightiest power of humankind. The reaping of the harvest that is the people like harvesting worship points from man-grass. Shounin wants to save Hitokotonushi from her current affliction, something that can only be done by countering human mantra somehow, something kamis and even sennins, who seem to operate through a lack of mantra rather than under it like kamis, cannot do. It will not suffice to be rid of it, it must be taken, it must be given to the kamis to be self-sufficient, it must be presented to the divine. The oni curse is mantra.

Shounin’s goal is saving Hitokotonushi by removing mantra. Although I think remove might be the wrong word— I theorized that removing mantra from humans could save Hitokotonushi either through directly removing the bind of human mantra upon kamis, or stopping the mantra from changing- deteriorating with time with less worship or turning to anger disrespect and terror, BUT his presentation to the divine consists in giving mantra to kamis- presenting it to them, hence my saying just earlier that this could instead be giving them the power of mantra, rather than just removing it from existence entirely. Instead of telling a fire it no longer needs fuel to keep going, you give it the power to feed itself wood and gasoline endlessly.

And just now I spoke of sennins in a way living without mantra- let’s get into that.

The final step to becoming a seinin is to walk through a town wracked by famine and misery without stopping or lifting a single finger. To offer no help and remain focused on the task to get through it above everything. It’s about leaving empathy behind and putting yourself above the situation, it’s about growing indifferent, as though the suffering of others even around you is inconsequential and doesn’t concern you.

To become a sennin is to leave the scale of thinking of humans, it’s to have learned as a human to think like kamis and see humans as small and meaningless within the cosmic design of the universe. Or rather, a type of transcending humanity that grows cynical, almost resentfully so, where emotions are worth less than nothing and cold logic reigns. But to what design, to what goal? The pursuit of spiritual ascendance is motivating and tempting enough for most, but we do see that some of what we see in Shounin are character flaws specific to him. The sennin mother was kind enough. Shounin talks like no one should care about anything if they are enlightened, but everything he does is ironically out of love for Hitokotonushi-sama.

This incoherence can probably be explained by the "reintegration" Shounin regularly does. We can look at the sacred treasure record of saiukou. "Regular disintegration and reintegration are necessary to keep personality-mantra coherence. Remember your heart." Something Shounin does to brute-force not fully leaving his feelings behind and remembering his goals? I hit the 30 pics per post limit so lemme just stitch the rest of the relevant sacred treasure record puzzle pieces together whike I’m here…

To ascend is to leave mantra behind. Somehow, to wield mantra is to be above-divine, it is incompatible with godhood or ascendance yet it influences and all is bound by it. It is a power that as a sennin you give up, a sacrifice instead of a granted wish, mantra is like the power to grant wishes and ascendance in true ascetism fashion is to, like Zen, refuse to use it and take.

Mantra, the human-exclusive level of thought and philosophy and communication and ability to visualize and build and want. The power of desires. The thing through which one can ascend or curse.

To become a divine being is to leave humanity behind, to leave humanity behind is to leave empathy and compassion and emotions behind. These things are however what makes us different from gods, what gives us powers over them, what makes life as insignificant man-grass worthy.

What is the oni curse?

Kidou, the curse of the oni, as per Shounin’s explanation what civilizations and kamis are built on, what he seeks to take to unchain kamis. Kidou is mantra.

Okay so… The curse of the oni is mantra, but how? What does that even mean?

Well, we’ve learned that most things are ruled by mantra, aka human will and imagination. Becoming a sennin has to do with transcending your own, mantras are what empower and disempower gods. The oni, too, in text, is said to be directly tied to the power of mantra, it is what shuts kamis’ mouths. But sennins, unlike kamis, are not created by human’s mantra, sennins do not rely on humans’ worship (mantra) for their powers and so their mouths aren’t shut, they are outside of mantras’ reach.

To remove an oni’s horns, their curse, by Hitokotonushi’s words is to rob them of their soul. To remove their oni curse is to remove the oni’s mantra. Which means the curse of the oni has tainted their mantra. The… mantra of the curse has tainted and fused with the person’s own mantra, the mantra involved in eating another human being has changed their own mantra innately forever until death. There’s a couple of different ways in which this could happen or for what reason, more precisely.

Human thoughts aka mantra, are what gives gods their forms, we are taught explicitly during the ukei that humans’ conceptualization of a kami dictates their appearance, wether they become a dragon or some other figure. Human mantra also has the power to curse gods- terror for a god becomes a plague that saps at their life and power.

A narrative then becomes clear, does it not? A koi that eats a koi remains a koi, a bear that eats human flesh does not become afflicted by an oni-like curse, the curse is human-bound. If it is the form-altering power of mantra that could curse onis into being, then… Human cannibalism is abhorred and demonized more than perhaps anything else, on a very innate and visceral level.

So by my favored theory, humans becoming monsters after doing cannibalism is that the intense judgement people who commit cannibalism face, this thought that immediately such an act makes them no longer human, takes form and manifests as a mantra that makes it true physically and spiritually— they not only become monsters but their very being is tainted, and since the stereotype of the average cannibal is a heartless emotionless bloodthirsty beast, that’s what onis are forced to become like on an intrinsic level. It is a more or less common myth worldwide, even just often a non-spiritual belief, that committing cannibalism saps at your humanity and turns you into something monstrous, like for example with the wendigo. Like we said earlier, onis are creatures of myth, and the biggest constant is that they are man-eating monsters. Mythical beings are somewhat like kamis, and since kamis can be of disaster or misfortune etc they can be believed in while still being negative in nature, so what’s to say committing an act that intrinsically changes so much about your spiritual state and your reputation in society, fitting the requirements for being an oni, turn you into one? A curse, placed on humans by humans, mantra, thought given form. It is no divine judge,ent, this is not Buddha’s doing, wether or not people can be "redempted" or wether they "deserve" it doesn’t matter, just the intense ostracization and dehumanization that the act inflicts upon you. Now anyone can see at a glance that you’ve committed such an heinous act, and the fear of onis continues on, as many are exiled ir isolated and encouraged to keep eating humans.

To commit cannibalism is to abandon your humanity. AbsoluteColor has an interesting theory centered on this. In their words, becoming an Oni might be something along the lines of transcendence, incomplete as it might be. In the Gabi trial, the aspiring sennin should shed his own emotions and go through a land devastated by war or famine without doing anything, and in a way the Oni who used other humans to feed himself had to shed his emotions, although they did so to gain something for themselves (food), making it a "stunted" transcendence...

My other theory is that since humans possess mantras, eating one breaks something/ fundamentally changes something in your being, either your spirit or body, because mantras are a power that can’t be consumed. So trying to consume it instead deflects it, channeling it in a way, and in this way becoming corrupted because something went wrong. But if it’s unrelated to the taboo as in theory 1 then it’d be weird that animals eating humans don’t become cursed- but the trouble could be that it’s a human eating mantra specifically, again that theme of a human’s special sentience being specially affected by things. Like, an animal doesn’t have the capacity to hold mantras so it slides off their back no trouble, but instead a human eating mantras is like trying to absorb or process it but it causes swelling past the bursting point. After all the process of becoming a god or something divine/above-human is a big topic, and we see how it changes someone and the strain that comes with it, the sacrifices, since by becoming a sennin you shed human emotions. In this reading human sentience itself is transcendant essentually, (and thus deeply affects the world,). Becoming a oni is to be chained by mantra, but the why exactly is up in the air, here it’s that eating another’s as a human, creature that generates mantra rather than being made of it like kamis and absorbing it within yourself messes you up, maybe because by digesting mantra you become made of mantra in some way, maybe the horns are pure mantra, part of them now. The other thing that makes this less likely is that the taboo theory offers some explanation as to why gods would be forbidden to speak about it despite knowing the details of it— it’s something so vile you cannot even speak of its origins, something sow oven into the laws of mantra and the universe that undoing it is unthinkable to even amatsus.

It could be a fusion of these. By consuming mantra you ascend to godhood in a way, and that is what allows one to become affected by mantra. Become bound by it. I’ve also entertained the idea that maybe it is their own mantra affecting their appearance, self-loathing and self-doubt and low self-esteem, your own consideration for your own humanity, after eating human flesh, that you no longer feel human or think you are monstrous. But it has low chances, because that can’t possibly be a phenomenon that always occurs impartially then, not everyone would think of themselves that way, especially with how out of it famine can make someone. This could be not unsimilar to this presentation of the divine deal, where you give the power of having mantra to a being only affected by mantra, onkt the other way around, where a being that generates mantra is now also commandeered by it, an essentialist tool of fate and the universe or something.

So,

to recap!

In my opinion either the oni mantra is strong because the taboo of it is strong, or because mantras are a tangible specially-corruptive thing when consumed.

Since the oni curse is mantra, removing it would have to be done through countering the mantra in some way, perhaps with a stronger positive one about how onis are humans like the rest of us or they can choose their own fate etc etc, or like what Shounin seeks to do to save Hitokotonushi from her curse, through removing mantra entirely.

The koi eats koi thing that the monk brought up is super interesting, any time a manga or japanese media touches on cannibalism it’s go-to example/case study to bring up, I regularly see it referenced even when I pick up a random manga. Asura by George Akiyama from 1970 is just one example. It seems koi eating koi is vey present in japanese consciousness… Which yeah is interesting— Kois are one popularized example but anytime we hear about animal species committing cannibalism we’re shocked by it, so it’s interesting how likely due to japanese exposure to kois it’s what sometimes haunts their stories. This sort of thing is visceral it feels like an innate wrong, so for talking about morality and nature and the innate status of things, yet the concept of higher sentience and how virtues are what makes humans special— it feels very emblematic and topical in many ways, and a very uniquely charged one.

I’m thinking that if they were to through with the Presentation of the Divine and the world became mantra-less Zen’s horns would fall. Which would be an interesting conflict because then Zen would have to consider "ok nice but is it worth trading for human sentience…", which ties back to the theme of wishes… Since human sentience is explicitly connected to mantras I feel like that supports the link I’m making here right, and how human emotions are something not below but rather above and inaccessible to the divine. Gods channel the power from their will through literal god powers that shape the world meanwhile humans can only channel their will through their actions, maybe it’s an inherent shift there that changes everything.

If onis have a strong mantra, and the kami, which are made of mantras, can’t undo the mantra of onis… Then perhaps, the same way that humans gave and take power of the kamis through mantras, humans are what made onis such a strong curse. Perhaps for the horns to fall, the devil’s mark as Ozuno said so fiercely once, the horns that are the mark of the oni, that give them their bloodlust and madness, then all it takes is for humans at large to stop fearing onis so— or rather, stop seeing cannibalism as an irredeemable act that strips your humanity from you forevermore. The power of thoughts is at the core of the story, and the intrigue with Shounin is baiting people to wonder, would it be so bad if that was taken away? Ozuno is tempted to go through with the Presentation to the supreme because it would cure his beloved, and if that were to cure Zen as well… Either from humans no longer being able to make mantras, or kamis becoming more powerful than the onis’ mantra, then that could be one more point of contention. I doubt Zen will be tempted, though, as someone who himself experienced it— survival at its rawest, mindless form. Hitokotonushi said it herself, that he understood the nature of wishes and thus mantras, with how he refused his second most important wish. Miyo herself is stated by people around her to have a fine mantra, a fine will and way to think, so I think that’s why our trio is the stuff of fate, the heroes of this tale. They have a bond so strong that the gods recognize it, and it’ll be because they’ll reach erudite knowledge on mantras and life without sacrificing their compassion or the perspective of a lowly human, baby!! Through shugendō, the path of training and testing, of trial and error and will to keep going!

Touge Oni is a lot about choice and willpower, carving your own path, the desires and ideologies and willpower and sentience of humans, how humans are both small vulnerable and insignificant on the scale of the cosmos and yet how such small beings can have so much impact and influence on the the world and their own fate— let us, then, be up and doing, with a heart for any fate. Miyo has changed the destiny the world thrusted upon her, herself bending time to change her own fate, Zen is determined to break his curse that’s stronger than gods and is already defying what should be dictating his life and behavior by acting upright and travelling with humans— humans are not divine but damn…… There’s something to us, isn’t there.

[transmascutena]

i need to talk about the utena game more . i don't at all consider it canon because that really just doesn't work, but between all the weird self insert fanfiction tropes there are some really interesting character moments and commentary about ohtori. like the fact that the protagonist's parents met when the mom was a student there and the dad was a teacher is so. ough.

[carlyraejepsans]

I’ve started watching Utena because of you. What. Is going on

HI. WELCOME TO THE CLUB, watch the trigger warnings. but yeah, revolutionary girl utena veers more and more towards surrealism the further you get into the series. it often and voluntarily forfeits narrative/logical consistency in favor of visual storytelling, metaphors and symbolism. i was just talking about it with nic the other day, and if the story weren't so harrowing, i would recommend it to everyone who wants to get into literary analysis, because it is SO packed with symbolism EVERYWHERE that it actually encourages you to try to decode it.

whatever you think utena is about, it is NOT. you can't go in and treat it like your 49293th classical shoujo. utena is a firework show of visual symbolism and it very rarely, if ever, explains itself to the viewer. it refuses to handhold you, but it never berates you for trying and getting it wrong either. there is SO much handholding in modern day media, but utena trusts its viewer to take away something meaningful from itself and to piece its message together on their own. it's one of my favourite pieces of media of all time just for that

[lilacerull0]

the thing about my fandom analysis is it will be contradictory. because having one definitive conclusion is boring to me, i love The Possibilities and i love revisiting something precisely because i want to find a new perspective i can view it in. makes things more fun. and i think it isn't really hypocritical, but rather reflective of the true nature of things which tends to be contradictory and chaotic. things are rarely ever chronological and never categorised naturally, these are tools humans invented in order to understand things through a form of translation. accepting category as god given is to prevent understanding and exploration.