#so it's different from having the same characters just with a dramatically different fandom culture surrounding them

[orcelito]

Me being like "I wonder what it's like for old trigun fans who have watched their fandom grow Enourmously in recent times from the new anime"

Then I remember that. I've had a similar experience with being an old-school persona fan. Back before p5 (the original) was out and the fandom was so much smaller. And then with the release of p5 and Especially with p5r. The fandom is so much fucking bigger.

And im like. Ah. That just might be how the old trigun fans feel, then.

[catpriciousmarjara]

Tell me: Is He Gay or In a Sherwani?

Imposition of western norms in fandom analysis of Asian characters

With the rising popularity of Indian cinema sparked by the recent success of RRR on international platforms as well as the easy availability of multiple streaming services, in addition to the appearance of South Asian characters in prominent roles in western, particularly US media, I've begun to see some concerning 'analysis' posts online. So I thought I'd address something I found common in most of these takes.

Guys, characterizing your blorbos as queer is great and all, love it, but you're making a fundamental mistake by making their clothing choices the foundation for your queer headcanons, especially when it comes to male characters. Do not apply existing western cultural ideas regarding male clothing onto South Asian characters and their dressing please.

The vast majority of the clothes being used by people in various online spaces as 'evidence' of a character being queer(gay or bi mostly) are just normal Indian clothing for men, like daily wear. A top being pink or a character's wardrobe being mostly pastel means absolutely nothing...cos Indian clothing tends to be colourful in general and the tendency to ascribe colours masculine and feminine qualities is considerably less in the subcontinent. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but generally not a concern.

There's also this pervasive idea that colourful clothing = flamboyance = queer and that itself is something many people have already pointed as a deeply flawed way of thinking and a stereotype. Furthermore, even if you do lean into the archetype of queer men being flamboyant, subscribing to the 'stereotypes exist for a reason don't they?' school of thought perhaps, there's also the fact that ideas of what is considered flamboyant change dramatically across different cultures. What is 'flamboyant' for someone might just be normal for others. Like maybe pink or purple or yellow might be considered too much, unmanly, emasculating etc in the US or something but they're just perfectly normal colours for men to wear in many, many cultures.

It's the 'Is he Gay or European?' principle. Did you characterize this Indian character (or any South Asian character really) as queer because of their canonical behaviour and portrayal, or did you just see their clothing and decide they're queer because being well groomed and having a colourful wardrobe is a character trait you exclusively ascribe to being queer?

Like guys, I like Chaipunk like the rest of you, but if you consider Pavitr queer just because his costume is a lot fancier than the others' (An actual take I've seen multiple times) without taking into account his cultural background....¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Let me make this clear, I don't think people need a ten page analysis to imagine their fave as queer. Headcanoning a character as queer can have any reason ranging from 'I said so and so it is' to 'this is my light character analysis that makes a masters thesis look shabby' and they're all valid and an integral part of the fandom experience. What I am annoyed at are these so-called 'well-researched' theories that did not make the slightest effort to look into South Asian culture and simply transposed their western bias onto Indian media and confidently make flat out wrong judgements and mislead other people. Clothing based sexual identity determinism is the least of it. That I can at least understand through the lens of a habitual process built through years of analyzing crumbs of queer representation available only through queer coded characters and symbolism such as clothing choices being the only way to see an aspect of yourself portrayed in an aggressively heteronormative media ecosystem. I do that too, because media is tragically heteronormative everywhere. But the rest? Its just straight up misinformation and misrepresentation touted as truth.

Its the same with relationships between men. There are plenty of cultures where skinship between men is not unusual and dynamics and nuances tend to be vastly different from western representations of male friendships. In xianxia and wuxia fandoms you can see this same problem in a different font when outsiders, most often the western side of the fandom, try to apply their own standards and morals onto the original work and try to interpret it through a lens it was never supposed to be interpreted through in the first place, except maybe for comparative analysis. This practice itself isn't a major problem, its natural for people to apply what is familiar to them to try and understand something new. But when this is also accompanied by them foisting their personal interpretation and analysis as the 'correct' one and trying to impose it on the fandom as a whole, it escalates into a powder keg situation as you can imagine.

Again, not saying that western parts of fandoms are the root of all evil or anything like that, gods know how toxic netizens can be. But in this specific situation, where people try to impose western ideals on to non-western content and assumes the universalism of their own principles and value systems? Indeed an issue to be addressed.

[zepskies]

Hey, Zep! Here’s a hard question: which fic did you enjoy the most when writing?

Hey there, lovely!

Ooh, that's super freakin' tough. I've written quite a lot, and I have many "favorites" for different reasons. Like I answered another anon earlier today, I absolutely loved writing Smoke Eater, for example, but it did get difficult for me at times due to the complexity of the story and sometimes the gravity of the subject matter.

That said, I'll give you a short list of my favorites (series):

3. Take Me Home (Beau Arlen x Reader)

Ah, the Big Sky fandom! This is the most recent series I've written, and I've had so much fun with it as I continued to learn Beau's character and navigate season 3 of the show, trying to fill in the blanks that the show left behind while adding my own spin to certain things.

Beau is my favorite cowboy sheriff, but he's not without his flaws, which made for a rich exploration of his character. ❤️

2. Midnight Espresso (Dean Winchester x Plus-Sized/Latina Reader)

This is a collection of stories in the SPN fandom, and it's very personal to me! (I myself am both plus-sized and Latina.) Though I tried to make it so all readers, regardless of race/ethnicity or otherwise, could enjoy those stories as well.

It gave me the chance to pair Dean with a reader character who is also a giver like him, who looks out for and cares for him in the same way he cares for others, all while being a badass hunter herself.

From dramatic and angsty hurt/comfort to fluffy smut, I've tried to explore many facets of their relationship, while utilizing both my heritage/culture and my personal experience with body insecurity, body shaming, etc. 💜

1. Break Me Down (Soldier Boy x Reader)

People probably know me best for this series. It was my first real foray into the complex, lovable asshole known as Soldier Boy (Ben).

And it was my attempt at creating a redemption arc for him through an "enemies to lovers" story, edgier than anything I'd done previously, thanks to the grittiness of The Boys world.

I've continued writing far past the original series because I just can't quit these two, and this version of Ben. (In fact, a new one-shot is coming for the BMD-verse on Friday called Calculated Risks, followed by a mini series in May! 💚)

And there are even more BMD requests in my inbox for when I'm able to get to requests again. So as long as people keep wanting to read about them, I'll keep writing about them! 😂

Thank you very much for this question! It was very difficult to choose. If you'd asked me which "one-shots/imagines" were my favorites, that would've been even harder to narrow down. 😅

[tiilore]

Hey there, 

I understand that there are people who are legitimately daft for harassing people and saying stuff like the anon had here: https://www.tumblr.com/tiilore/771055663129460736/gain-some-fucking-media-literacy-or-just-some-real?source=share

I also agree that media literacy can and does get ignored in fandoms (trust me, I can speak from experience).

However, I don’t think calling them an “inept loser” or threatening violence, even as a ‘joke’, makes you the better person.

On top of that, please correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you mutuals (not naming anyone here out of respect for privacy, but if you know, you know) with someone who:

Using the word “canon” (specifically the canon portrayal of Wheatley in Portal 2) to imply that nothing else regarding Wheatley matters, from interpretations of his character to all of the iconic designs/AUs. That’s the whole point of fandom culture, after all. To ignore this fact is to neglect part of the reason why the Portal fandom has such a strong history over the decades.

Used “Tumblr reading comprehension” as an insult to discredit people, among many other insults (yes, there are genuine “you-know-whos” but that doesn’t justify insulting people).

Claimed that the Portal fandom was in decline because a few people happened to disagree with their views, with some understandably put off by their aggression.

Hid the context behind someone’s anon ask, potentially painting them in a bad light, when for all we know they could’ve been asking to not be so aggressive towards other people in the Portal fandom. 

With those two things in mind, feel free to disagree with me, but part of me is concerned that you may be enabling the hostile behaviour (which I described above) being directed towards others with different views (even unintentionally).

CONTENT WARNING: Not to sound dramatic, but people taken their own lives from being on the receiving end of such aggressive behaviour (see the document here bc that is a textbook example of fandom toxicity affecting people like this): https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vSfCoyn81fp83pycx5eyS4oxryRpFnVnHdEeyEyouigrKSWAZ5iEgTjt7Q63n68S_PcZK7_klB-9dH1/pub

You can take or leave my advice, but I only ask to please be more patient towards others who are simply enjoying media and exploring their own “fanon”, and to not be obligated to engage with people you don’t agree with, especially with hostility.

Thanks for reading.

??? Are you seriously in my asks policing me over my apparent behavior regarding WHEATLEY discourse??? The fact that you've not only been in my friend angst's mentions TIME AND TIME again over this and have repeatedly sent him these long asks, but are now doing the same to his mutuals with the same opinion is weird and OBSESSIVE!!! you can't police people on being "too aggressive" within a fandom space and then turn around and do shit like this.

this is called DISCOURSE, its something people have in fandom spaces. if it bothers you that much then for the love of god block me, and LEAVE ME ALONE BROTHER

[siryouarebeingmocked]

So there's this web novel called Worm.

[art source]

 It's about a dark and edgy world that's full of superpowered folks, and which is, therefore, about three steps away from dystopian collapse. Many places are already there.

The story is about a teenage bullying victim who gains powers, and uses them to become a very dangerous supervillain, despite her best efforts.

And anyone familiar with the RWBY fandom may have just gone "wait, this sounds familiar. Are there a lot of fics where a main character gets an alternate power set?"

Yes, yes there are.

In this fanfic I'm about to complain about, Taylor gets an already existing power that's already broken.

Canon has "Path to Victory", which is almost literally just an "I WIN" button. It tells "Contessa" what she needs to do to succeed at almost any goal she wants. She's a big blindspot for people who can see the future.

Some powerful entities can't be accurately predicted, she can't predict how people will "trigger" and get their powers, and she's terrible in space.

Taylor has the darker, edgier little brother. Which is just an "I WIN" button, with no “almost”. It means she gets to do whatever she wants, and she’s a borderline sociopath.

Someone tries to mind-whammy taylor? Nope, doesn't work.

Contessa tries to use PTV.on Taylor? Doesn't work.

Look, this is obviously, transparently a stompfic. And there two ways to go with that.

ROFLSTOMP, or take it seriously.

Make it a humour fic, or focus on how the protagonist seems strange to those around them, and how they see everyone else as strange in return. Also how the protagonists actions affect various people and the system. 

If you want challenge just give them mutually contradictory goals. The power can't do x without risking or losing y and certainly can't take care of z at the same time.

I read a Harry potter story which gave Snape the path to victory and the last published chapter was snape sitting in a bar trying to figure out what he wanted to do next. Looking back, that was probably meant to represent the author.

You can tell a good dramatic story with an OP protagonist. You just have to work harder.

This story mostly worked hard on setting up literally contrived situations so Taylor can kill someone in amusing fashion. And people's amusing reactions. That's the main selling point.

And of course the author and Taylor say that she has no more moral issues with killing. Because ROFLSTOMP.

In fact, one of the first things she does is literally stomp Sophia to death.

Taylor will still go after hard drug dealers because they hurt people, but she'll leave soft drug dealers alone. And of course she hates the local Nazi gang.

In short, she's a very selective sociopath.

So the story tries to mix both types, including with Sociopolitical Commentary™. It doesn't work very well.

At one point Taylor cracks a joke about tech Bros. 

Fun fact: Worm  takes place in an alternate universe where there is a very slim chance that they would develop that particular slang. A universe that is culturally very different from our own. In fact, I'm pretty sure the original webnovel ended before "tech bro" was even really a phrase.

And when Taylor kills the local Injustice League, she gets the bounty, and decides to donate it to the city. Specifically, she announces, the general public. 

And in case anyone was wondering why it can’t be given to businesses directly, she says trickle down economics doesn't work.

Let's ignore whether that's true or not. Trickle down economics usually refers to tax cuts. Not handouts and bailouts. Also the phrase was popularized mainly with Ronald Reagan's tax cuts.

Note that superheroes and villains started appearing on record in 1984. Reagan's first tax cuts were in 1981. His second were in 86. By 1985 in the worm universe, the breakfast club came out with Nic cage as bender. Superheroes didn't go public until 1987.

So it's possible that the phrase could still exist in the worm universe.

But it does seem strange that a teenager with little interest in politics happens to use it. In fact it seems a lot more like something an adult writer from our universe would use.*

And besides all that, it's just getting one note. No char development. Even the people reacting to Taylor do it the same way.

I mean I knew this was going to be self indulgent Mary Sue nonsense from the jump, so I really have nobody to blame but myself.

*To be fair, precedent does exist in canon. There's a character called Nice Guy. He can make himself appear to be a non threat, or even socially invisible, even when people are actively trying to find him or he's slitting a throat. Which sounds a lot like the 2000s  internet feminist stereotype of a nice guy. Ironically, the character concept was originally for a girl.

[bloodpen-to-paper]

Alright folks, final Qsmp post of the day (--will have mentions of the Forever situation fyi--)

The prison event was very fun and I got some good laughs (especially from the therapy session). I'm glad to be back and have broken the ice after being radio silent for like 3 weeks.

Going forward, I don't think I'll be as emotionally invested with the lore as I was before with Forever's content, and him not being here is still weird for me. There's moments that feel so much like he should be there, and references that I know would've been made if the server wasn't collectively ignoring his existence. I understand why they're doing that, and I'm not saying they shouldn't. I remember seeing some posts after the initial blow up saying it would probably feel off for a while before the server found a way to fully move past it. Its completely understandable, just like I hope its understandable that people like me still feel sad and hurt over the loss. That'll take a while, and I'm sharing this cause I hope this can resonate with anyone who feels the same.

Oddly enough, this whole situation gave me the opportunity to step back and learn a lot about myself. Hyperfixations are a big deal for ND people, it can be life consuming, and as much as I stand by the fact that everything would've been astronomically better if this never happened... I do think it helped me analyze my own brain in a way I didn't before, issues I had been ignoring or hadn't realized. There's a lot to life, and sometimes you lose sight of that when you're zeroed in on one thing 24/7. I'll still think about the cubito and consume content of him until I naturally lose interest (shout out to the other former Forever fans who are doing the same, separating character from CC of course), but from here on the Qsmp is something I'd like to just have fun with. Something for creativity and culture, but as a fun hobby rather than a serotonin lifeline. This may sound dramatic, but you never know what's happening in someone's life, and what they use to keep themselves going when nothing else is going right for them. Its why this kind of content exists, and I'm thankful for what this server provided when I was still figuring myself out. Even with the situation, I don't want to forget about any of it. But I think I'm ready to take a new and healthier approach this time.

Having said that, I'm glad I could be here for today, and I want to continue being in this fandom until the server itself is ready to end. The Prison Event, whether planned in advance or last minute, was honestly a really great way to give a bit of a blank slate for people still feeling weird about Forever's absence. It brought a new premise disconnected from him and gave people like me a reason to come back to livestreams. I'm glad to have broken the ice and to know that I can come back to the Qsmp fanbase and content, even if its different this time, I'm glad its there for me to return to when I feel like it.

There's a billion drafts for other fandoms and topics that I want to get through, and I'd like to be more consistent with them since my Qsmp hyperfixation has calmed down a bit. But I'll be here, sometimes blogging, sometimes just vibing. Its good to be back, I missed all of you a ton. See you at the Inmate Crucifixion <3

[garbage--account]

for the ina11 ask game 2, 7, 10, 22, 30!!

Oh boy hehehe (TW : long ass post)

2. What your favorite OG season and why ?

No hesitation : season 2, the alius arc. Because looking back, i think it made or solidified what inazuma eleven is. The wacky plot, the tension, the plotwist, the characters, the places, the dramas, the villains, the development, etc. (I must admit i like it so much because of Fubuki but the others reasons still go) You can't tell me season 2 isn't legendary. Period 💅

(Side note : ironically, i used to hate that season at the beginning the first time watching it because i was so emotionally attached to S1 characters i didn't like what pain they had to go through. The anime was mostly wacky, and suddenly it was sad 😢)

7. What is your favorite ship ?

Trick question. It actually depends on when you ask me. I think my first ship was GenSaku, then i used to be a die hard GouFubu shipper, i kinda like EnKaze because of doujinshi on youtube. When i grew older, i was really into SomeFubu and i was surprised of that. In the AreOri era, i liked Haizaki x Asuto (idk their ship name sorry), then AfuHiro, NosaIchi, and the crack ship ever : HiroAtsu (it makes sense to me ok?). Currently, SakuSasa altered my brain chemicals (Level 5 made us waste no time to ship them in chapter one). I actually enjoy all ships as long as it can make sense in canon (not mandatory actually see HiroAtsu) and the fanon about them is bombastic (the fandom literally made me like a polycule ship aka the break trio and i wasn't ready for that 😭).

10. Most evil adult antagonist ?

Canon : Garshield because trigerring a war is not cool + blackmailing children to let you make experiment on them is 🤮

Emotionally : Irina. Not only that bitch almost have the same name as me and mistreating children, especially your own son, really ?

Fanon : we made Kageyama even worst in fanfiction (i am living for that)

22. What is your favorite intro and outro ?

In summer, i blast Jounetsu de Mune Atsu at full volume to imagine i am chilling in a tropical island and the most handsome man to ever exist comes to invite me to set the dancefloor on fire with the most extra and dramatic dance possible while people watching are aroused n jalous. In reality, i have to work and i can't dance. Was it too much information ? OK, moving on.

For my fave ending, i hesitate between Ruuysei Boy and Maji Bomber. Shoutout to Seishun Oden to emulate early France Gall's carreer in the 60s for a late 00s anime about sakka bois.

30. Do you have controversial opinions ?

You can judge if it's controversial or not, but here goes nothing :

Nosaka is a bitch and i hate him

Atsuya (S2) is more an allegory of loneliness, fear and guilt than a spirit possessing Shirou's body or a legit alter ego. Fubuki was never meant to represent DID or mental disorder accuratly but to teach us something more general through his character development.

The Break Trio are men of culture (not a hc, i can explain, it's not that kind of culture).

Level 5 made Aphrodi appear rarely but at the pivotal moment in the seasons on purpose to add him an aura of mystery so we have no proof he is not a god and we can't argue with him. (He is also an allegory, he is the obstacle to deal with to go from zero to hero).

Kozoumaru is a bitch and i hate him.

By adding brainwashing or magic, Ichihoshi's backstory could have been 1000x better.

Asuto is not a Tenma copycat or a bland character. Did you see him throwing hands at Haizaki and Nosaka at the same time and punching his "dad" or did i watch a different version of AreOri than everyone else ? He is just the most normal and down-to-earth protagonist so far and IE fans hate that because we like our main boy unhinged af. His only ick is that the scenarists forgot him during Orion but he had good bases to write a banger about him. (@ghostreader16 and i have a blast discussing him)

Shinjou shoud have not been a good guy.

Midouin is forgettable af but everyone agrees with me.

The new Raimon manager, the big tiddie green hair girly : she's amazing 💘💖💗💗💗💓❤️‍🔥

[kairosimperative]

Day Five: Artists

This is entirely comic and pop artists, because that’s my solution to the dilemma I had when I mixed them together with the painters you find in fancy-schmancy European galleries. I feel much more comfortable just showing off some contemporary pictures I like looking at.

5. Lisa Frank

Yep, that Lisa Frank! Blah blah neon puppies, yadda yadda you might be a 90s kid if you remember, but I mean this with full sincerity: I love this brand. And I checked, the brand is an artist, not just a name. Ms. Frank is still around having fun with rainbows and sparkles, and to all appearances doesn’t care if she’s gone out of style. You can follow her on Instagram like I do, if you want.

One reason I wanted to change my restrictions for this category to pop art is that I have a longtime personal campaign against cultural gatekeeping. People look at Lisa Frank and wouldn’t believe anyone would consider her an artist, but the skills employed in this kind of work are the same as the ones in the pieces you see in galleries. The main difference is who it’s intended for: Lisa Frank makes art for kids, and she’s not ironic or embarrassed or preachy about it, and that’s wonderful.

4. Melody Peña

I collect Windstone sculptures, by which I mean I have one and want more. You know how the tiniest things you encounter in your childhood can end up being formative to your creative development? One of mine was a Windstone catalog. I pored over it again and again. I was picky about my mythical critters, but I couldn’t find a single thing I would change about these.

Looked up the company once I was immersed in online fantasy art fandom years later, and periodically after that. There are so many more molds now, and the classics are still there, shimmery and dramatic and warmhearted.

3. Fiona Staples

Even the best comic artists usually have some kind of subject matter they can’t draw quite as well, or a number of pages that look a bit slapdash from time to time. Except Fiona Staples. She doesn’t have a weak point. (According to her, it’s spaceships, but I have yet to find evidence.)

As a failed artist myself, I never run out of respect for illustrators who can handle every aspect of visual art from the vanishing point to the anatomy of facial expressions -- panel after panel, page after page. Don’t talk to me about “high” and “low” art. Comic books are goldmines.

2. Don Bluth

He’s an animator guy who used to work for Disney but left them for better things. If you didn’t know he’s one of your favorites too, you will soon: Secret of NIMH, All Dogs Go to Heaven, Anastasia, Titan A.E., The Land Before Time.

Yeah. All of those. A couple surprised me by their range in subject matter, but there’s still a definite style that unites them, especially in the animal characters. It’s not in the way that all Disney characters have visual similarities, either -- it’s just a Bluth thing, and bless him for it.

1. Bill Sienkiewicz

Sienkiewicz is such a comics legend that I was a little surprised to find that the series for which I know him, The New Mutants, is universally regarded as one of his greatest works. As far as I can gather from old and new commentary on the series, Marvel was throwing the dice by putting his impressionistic, sketchy, mature style into a book about innocent teenagers. It paid off in every panel and now he’s a symbol of the glory of the Silver Age of comics.

After a little exploring I found some of his work on other characters and also his original ideas, which would not be out of place in any high-end gallery. Whatever the subject matter, he goes beyond visual communication and finds beauty and wonder, as all art should.

[discluded]

I am very new to the world of BL fandom but are cp fan reactions always this extreme if the actors move on in their career and work with other people or is this week just a bad week with the massive BBB posters at Bible's event and the truck protesting outside of GMMTV about the Ohmnanon "breaking up". I know that popular actors get paired up for multiple projects but I assume they must change up couples and act with others as pairs every once in a while or after a few years?

hey friend, I'm going to answer this in a way that is circuitous that I think will better address your question.

the first part is: have fandoms always been volatile to the extent a segment of fans will organize to engage their ability to bully / cause harm rather than engage positively?

yes and no, in the sense this is a relatively new phenomenon in the entirety of organized fannish history (which let's just give due credit to our foremothers of fannish history the star trek fandom and their zines.)

but it's not so new because this started around 15 years ago, when people in fandom realise they could also organize to to create very targeted harm

these are the primary examples coming to mind:

Girls Generation (snsd) black ocean

Super Junior's official fanclub members organizing to buy company stock to prevent an 18 year old boy from joining the group lineup

In both these instances, tens of thousands of fans (for fantastics here) organized specifically to harm a person or group of people. the intent objective was specifically to harm.

the bad learned lesson from both these incidents (2008) is that fans can bind together to throw a fit if they don't get their way.

the second is: is it common for fans / fandoms of actor pairs to act this way?

and the more complex answer to that is, fandom is not a single conscious entity, and categorically similar fandoms often do not have a high overlap of active fans, usually at most 1-2 fandoms at a time. don't get me wrong, you'll see a lot of mileapo fans who are also bts fans, and I would bet you'll see a much smaller count of bts fans and exo fans overlap than you would see of bts fans and mileapo fans. any similarities you find in how fans between the first two groups act like one another is more the result of the categorical meta fan culture (here: kpop) rather than because the same people are perpetuating these behaviors while acting as fans of both these groups

for this reason I hesitate to call fandoms drama-mongering because these behaviors are perpetuated by individuals, or by a group of individuals, and not even necessarily by a group that represents the majority belief of the fandom. the fact of the matter is, people will participate in fandom regardless of if you like them or not, and some of there people are bullies or stalkers or overall terrible human beings. you can't make them stop engaging with your favorite actor or musician or couple because you can't control anyone but yourself. the only thing you can do is take the wind out of their sails by not engaging.

if you're wise to Ye Olde Harry Potter fandom lore, you'll know there was a specific segment. of fandom which known as highly dramatic but it wasn't because they liked a certain character or couple - it was because these individuals were drama mongering bullies to begin with, who continued that behavior in other fandoms. One of these infamous people bullied two different friends of mine in two different fandoms 6 years apart, and continues to instigate negativity in the fandoms they choose to engage in. you can't stop this person from joining a fandom... you can only limit their power by not engaging.

so the the answer to your specific question are all fandoms this dramatic? no, or they don't act in that way at least. MewGulf (TharnType) fans continued to invest in delusions by "I've connected the dots.jpeg" normal posts by both parties despite Mew's explicit rejection of their fantasies and his refusal to engage. However, they didn't have a problem with MG moving onto other acting projects without the other. Mew even worked with Tul of MaxTul/Manner of Death on a project but it wasn't BL. however, Max will be involved in the new mafia Thai BL releasing next year that's already been cast and as far as I can see, Tul isn't involved. I haven't heard of any grievances thus far from their fans but that doesn't mean there aren't any, and even if there are, I doubt the reaction would be organize to specifically harm Max's career / limit his opportunities.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have what Apolaris did in August, which was purposefully sabotaging Man Suang promo and embarrassing Apo in front of business partners and sponsors because they want the opposite: for Apo to stop working with Mile.

to circle back to the beginning: 1) it has nothing to do with the specific fandom topic, people can feel a sense of entitlement and desire to control regardless of who it is what behavior they want to happen and 2) a small group of people can disproportionately cause harm if they are organized enough and vindictive enough. that doesn't necessarily represent the majority fan view, but it can over time if their bullying behavior towards other fans drive the more reasonable people out of fandom , leaving only those who agree with theie toxic mindset.

do fandoms always have these people? in this day and age, almost inevitably, yes. and they are unfortunately also resilient to being bullied out of fandom themselves but plenty good at playing the victim. the best thing one can do is ignore their entitled, obnoxious behavior (private shit talking totally allowed)

*please in advance forgive my typos. the keyboard is generating weirder autocorrects of correct words every day. Please pretend to not see it

[ac3-silvers]

Is it weird for me to be worried about my latest hyperfixation/plot bunny?

Below the cut is an explaination.

Tl/dr: added a bunch of like pagan themes and my version of “western fantasy” and found family tropes and species bending to a Xianxia/Wuxia setting (MXTX triple fusion) and I’m worried people will find it problematic if I post it. All pagan stuff is also “weird” bc it’s my flavor of it and I add more bits when I write it for stories of any kind. Main guy mostly just acts as a dad and is always running around trying to avoid people who he doesn’t want to find him unless he needs to trade for certain things like fabric because everyone is suspicious of him and it gets worse when they learn he’s an “alternate type of cultivator” and actually foreign and stuff. Like, it’s HIM being assimilated and not the other way around even if he’s sharing like a couple crafts, what he grew up speaking and writing, some recipes and stuff you’d learn if you lived in the wilds and had an arborist-holistic doctor-type for a mom figure.

Edits: added more clarification, main concern is white savior and I’m doing as much as I can to avoid that bullshit but I’m still worried as fuck bc I don’t want to seem like an asshole or something.

Like, I tend to have phases for fandoms, sure, but I also have them for tropes/concepts I like to write.

So I’m in a MXTX/Danmei phase fandom wise, and I’m in a general “fix it before the shit can go south” phase, and now I’m layering on my paganism-in-everything phase once again and writing a “what if all MXTX novels are in the same world… and a very powerful druid-witch dude happens to stumble onto our favorite red-and-black boys and a (good number of) handful(s) of other fucked over kids… which activates his horrible, horrible dad instincts and he adopts every last one of them” thing.

It’s 3 chapters deep, has a bunch of random shit ranging from discussion of languages and their quirks, basic Irish lessons (bc teaching myself off and on for YEARS), pagan/wiccan shit (obviously), handicrafts, hunting, practical foraging and ultra-sustainable farming practices, how major religions stamp out smaller or “bad” ones…

It’s basically just what I write for my Og stuff but I’m not holding back at ALL and it’s MXTX. Main plot is MDZS but Binghe and Hua Cheng are the frustratingly ridiculous older brothers of the family that the dad-character is just sick and tired of listening to them pine and suspicious as hell about who they’re going after despite not wanting to even THINK about his boys being in romantic relationships with ANYONE.

Just… goofy happy but dramatic family shit and cute kids and teens bringing a shitload of foreign mythology and pagan culture and a hefty dash of my personal style of fantasy into the Xianxia/Wuxia world.

I just worry I might get flack for like destroying the culture and setting with… what I write about for the most part outside of like the vast majority of my fics.

Am I going nuts, or is this okay?

Edit for a clarification: I’m worried, as someone mentioned, of a white savior trope problem. I’m mainly trying to get out of that corner I seem to have driven myself in, but generally how it’s going so far is:

- cultivators are suspicious of foreign guy who’s apparently not just some weird merchant, this causes issues

- OC is more just trying to keep the kids he ends up running around with from doing stupid shit like pulling stupid stunts to be with people they declare their soul mates after like one brief interaction (and he fails a lot and gets all “I’m not mad I’m just disappointed. Now eat your dinner and go take a bath, you stink and are too thin again.”)

- major difference for whole setting is just some one off things here and there being introduced and made more common in a warped timeline (mostly just like fiber arts and some recipes and minor things that aren’t as obvious right off the bat like how ginkgo trees are in the same family as poison Ivy and stuff like that)

Generally the entire fic is just very done dad yelling at stupid teenagers for being stupid teenagers and having to dodge people who don’t like the weird wild man and judging him for not being able to read Chinese well and stuff.

Yet I’m still worried about white savior issues… because they’re an issue.

[caparrucia]

would Zhongli lay eggs if he had offspring?

If you mean in general and you're into it? Fuck it, sure. Why not. He's a fictional character and he exists purely for your entertainment. And if you have fic recs about it, sure, go nuts and share. I survived the Homestuck fandom, I'm always of the "Yeah, sure, why not?" persuasion when it comes to characters doing unusual things for sex and reproduction.

Have fun!

If you mean specifically the Zhongli I'm writing in this fic, the answer is no for two reasons, one of which is hysterical and the other an indictment of how much of a theology nerd I still am. To wit:

Number one (the funny one): He's not a dragon, my dude. He's a furry. A scaley even, might be the right terminology, I think? Furry friends, correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, he made himself a dragon fursuit. Explicitly in the text. That's what the exuvia was. A very emotionally significant and symbolically charged dragon fursuit, but still a fursuit. He's not a dragon ascended into godhood, he's a god who showed himself in dragon form to humans. His true form is his humanoid form that matches the Statues of the Seven and the form he shows in, in most cutscenes about his past: black arms with geo veins in them and the most logic defying hoodie. The hoodie is actually the main reason I chose to make that his true form: he has a cutout for his fucking ponytail, if he had horns or any kind of interesting dragon features, you bet this dramatic moron would have designed the world's most impossible hood to both show them off and still work as a hood somehow.

Number two (the nerdy one): He's a god! Gods do not have the need to reproduce sexually at all, because they don't make more of themselves that way. (They can, however, make more of themselves, we've seen that, with Nahida and Focalors, but neither of those was sexual and neither of those was the same method.) It's an instinct they directly lack. That's not to say gods don't have sex or don't understand the concept of sex, or more egregiously that they don't understand the concept of romance and love. They do, to different degrees depending on the individual and their relationship with humans and other creatures who DO have sexual urges baked right into their cultures. I would put most of the Gods in Teyvat somewhere in the ace spectrum (except Venti, because it's Venti) but that's mostly a shorthand to explain that sex is not a thing that drives most of their relationships. It's also a fun excuse for them to get really freaky about sex, in general, because sex is completely divorced from reproduction, so if they're having sex at all, they're 100% doing it for fun. And if you've ever hung around the kink community, you'll know that's the environment that produces the weirdest fucking shit imaginable that ends up rewiring your brain in the process. It's great.

There's two kinds of gods in canon, and I've extrapolated from that both in this fic and the other fic that take place in the same shared verse. The first kind is gods who are born as gods, they did not ascend, they just... one day existed and they were the gods of the thing they are gods of. They are created from the faith and prayers of the people in the things they eventually become gods of. Zhongli is this type of god. Then, there's also gods who attained godhood: people and creatures who are not gods, who then, through their actions and the faith of people in them, turn into gods. Venti is the prime example.

I'm sure this distinction will at no point come back to bite anyone, ever, across the entire ficverse. /s

Like, if we're talking broad strokes, the main flaw with Zhongli is that he doesn't understand his own nature. Like the main driver for him, as a character, is that he's perpetually isolated from people. He's lonely. But he's always been the strongest god, the most powerful one, the one people treat with reverence and respect and therefore put massive walls and ritual and distance between him and them. He doesn't really have friends, besides Venti, because the people who know who he is venerate him to some degree (the Adepti, etc.) and the people who don't know who he is, he doesn't consider friends because it feels... fake, in a way. They're not friends with him, the real him, they're friends with the version of him they made up and isn't actually him.

The punchline is that every attempt Zhongli has made to close the gap between himself and others has instead widened it, up to and including changing the thing he's god of: he's the god of contracts, but that's not the thing he was born as, he was originally the god of the mountain: the largest one in Liyue, the one that loomed over everything and everyone worshiped at least a little. So when the loneliness gets to him and he comes down to the mountain to connect with people, he invents the concept of contracts to regulate their interactions, but that just means his powers just grow as people adopt the concept of contracts and their faith in him grows substantially. In the fic he's the one who illuminates the illuminated beasts: he takes what's essentially Guizhong's pet talking animal companions and raises them almost to godhood by giving up part of his power to them, turning them into Adepti. This was made in an attempt to create more of himself and simultaneously diminish himself back so they would all be equals. But it doesn't work, because the Adepti immediately turn around and worship him for it, swearing their power and their loyalty to him, which makes his power grow exponentially from that, so the companions he tried to make, the circle of friends he tried to build, turn instead into more worshipers that increase his power and treat him with respect and deference because they owe their existence to him. You can see how the Adepti - and the Yaksha - have really close bonds of friendship and affection with each other (and with Guizhong!) but when it comes to Zhongli, he's kept at arms length, mostly out of respect and reverence. He's always there as a figure of authority, a mediator, a leader, etc.

He's only ever met two people in the entirety of his life that have known he is a god, and moreover which god he is, and haven't worshiped him, even a little: Guizhong and Childe.

He hasn't, however, made that connection yet.

Expect it to hit him like a freight train when it does, it'll be fun.

I give you all that meandering ramble to say: Zhongli has issues with power structures and sex has never really existed outside that power structure for him. He's also still not understanding what kind of relationship Childe wants with him, and in his own dipshit moment, he just assumed it was sex: which is why they're not having sex right now. Childe is so offended at the idea that he refuses to engage, which means he's in a hell of his own making, because... I mean. LOOK at them. Zhongli hasn't been human long enough to fully appreciate the state of horny, but he will eventually be very, very confused because he's never been horny in his life. But let the man master the basics of hunger and sleep, before he gets on the advanced curriculum of "so you wanted to be a human and you fucked it up spectacularly."

In 100K-150K words, when they get their respective heads out of their respective asses about a fuckton of things and sex is actually a thing they're doing? Oh yeah. No. They're gonna get up to impressively kinky shit. It'll be fun.

[stoneheart-paramour]

can i get away with having the characters wear NGC clothing without ppl being weird about it. i've been thinking about this for months. call it the overthinker in me worried about what other people think even though i really shouldn't but like. if i put aventurine in a dress are people gonna be chill and normal about it. can i trust ppl to Not assume it's like... idk... what is the word... auuuughhhhh

as a writer who takes their world building super seriously, i naturally gotta think about what ppl are wearing. Telestrata's culture and climate are both dramatically different to all the other regions, so i've always felt there was no excuse for me not to experiment with how people might traditionally dress. there are three distinct populations across Telestrata, each occupying different niches in the region which affects the kind of weather they'd typically experience, BUT they all once came from the same geographical place on Earth; although that place isn't specifically defined, it is known to have been tropical (or close to the tropics), and if not an island/island chain, then a coastal area.

so even before moving to Telestrata, i think it's safe to assume that articles of clothing would tend towards whatever isn't gonna give you heatstroke - light, breathable fabrics, probably a fair bit of skin showing, maybe some kind of head wear to keep the sun outta the eyes; etc etc. Telestrata's sunlight is WAY more intense (you could say three times as intense!) so keeping your eyes and skin safe from getting crisped is gonna be important. so, material that can cover the body to block the light, but is breathable enough to stay cool, wick away sweat, that kinda thing. i don't know enough about clothes to use the Right Words TcT (more stuff to research... oh boyo)

ALL THIS TO SAY. i just think, if i was in a place hot as balls and bright as fuck as Telestrata. i might want to wear a nice light dress. and, if i'm to get into headcanon territory here, i also strongly believe someone as gaudy and fashion-forward as Aventurine would, too. he's already got the boob window!! this isn't a man who conforms to any definition of "normal", let alone gender norms!!

and the SSkies universe is already itself not one to shackle itself with societal norms of any flavor, so no one in-universe would bat an eye. no one within the narrative would make a fuss or ask any questions. but can i trust my READERS to be normal? to be chill? idfk. frankly i'm afraid of fandom because i just have no idea what people will be chill about and what's gonna create Problems (every day i see someone talking about an opinion that's apparently controversial that seems perfectly rational to me, and i wonder what the fuck is going on in ppl's heads...)

ahem. maybe this is all just more incentive to keep working on my art... maybe i will feel better if i can just Draw My Vision. and point at it. like. do you see it? my Vision? wouldn't it be nice... like, i can't realistically keep him in his normal canon attire bc he'd boil alive, so i gotta do something else, and dresses are so fun and fancy. i could give him a proper peacock tail/train. imagine! and obviously lots of jewelry. man needs his bedazzlement. wait, how is "bedazzlement" a real word, i thought i was making that up-

AHERM. anyway. there's my telestrata log... maybe i'll do some constructive soon (i swear i'm trying)

[lilsqueaksqueak]

https://www.tumblr.com/macavitymayormaynothavebeenthere/778206417292230656/question-for-bucktommy-shippers?source=share

I'm sending an anon response because posting about BT before has gotten me hate messages and I don't want to deal with that today.

I'm not a gay man but I am a lesbian the exact same age as Tommy, which means we're both members of an odd generational subsect of queer culture. What do I mean by that? Well, it means that in our formative years the gay representation we saw was almost entirely based around the AIDS crisis. In 1995, 1 in 9 gay men had AIDS and 1 in 15 died. Lesbians rose up to help and many of my generational predecessors served as de facto nurses for their friends, because no one else would help them. So my entire understanding of gay culture growing up was seeing that, combined with every bully in school throwing around words like f** and gay with no repercussions, AND knowing my parents were homophobes, just like Tommy and his dad. There was no safe space for us to exist in the world.

Then, by the time both Tommy and I were young adults, the height of the AIDS crisis was over, HIV therapy became more readily available, but the hate was still systemically embedded. For me (closer to Karen's story), it influenced the career choices I made. For Tommy, it meant he served in the army under Don't Ask Don't Tell (which wasn't repealed until 2011). DADT essentially meant you could die for your country but if they found out you were gay, you'd be stripped of your medals. You'd be dishonorably discharged and lose all your benefits.

Now, Tommy and I are both considered middle-aged and we're now in a world in which queer is no longer a slur. Where there's beautiful, meaningful representation of all types of queer culture that we have access to. PrEP is on the market. We have legal protections in place (for now). Queer kids still may not grow up in a welcoming environment, but they at least have the internet to find community and a modicum of safety. It's night and day from how I grew up and that's a great thing! But I definitely perceive (especially in fandom) a total lack of awareness and appreciation for how queer culture has evolved so quickly and dramatically, and that while we're thrilled people can be so open now, we're also seeking understanding on why that isn't so easy for many of us who are older.

So when I see people be totally unforgiving to Tommy about his past behavior, it just seems either disingenuous because you prefer a different ship, or a complete lack of understanding about what it was like growing up as a gay person in that era. I don't like his past behavior, but of course I understand it. When you're made to feel small and vulnerable your entire life, in every possible setting, you lash out. You might make others feel small and vulnerable out of a need to protect yourself. And then, hopefully like both Tommy and I both found ways to do-- you grow. You learn. You become a better person. But that formative fear never, ever goes away. No one needs to like Tommy. He has plenty of flaws I can point to. But I would very much like to see some compassion towards this character, and for people to stop treating him like a cartoon villain. Especially when he's on a show that, at its core, is about growth and redemption. I see myself in this character and I want so badly to believe he can stop being his own worst enemy and allow himself to be happy.

Nonnie, out of all of the responses I've gotten to my post I think this one is the most interesting to me. (Which is not to say I don't appreciate everyone else who has responded of course) because this is a perspective I really hadn't considered and it's one that doesn't center Buck. I can definitely agree that a not insignificant amount of the dislike of Tommy comes from a lack of charitability and an inability (or refusal) to acknowledge the nuances of the context that surrounds his character. People have a hard time accepting queer characters who are imperfect in ways they disagree with, which sucks.

I do think criticisms of his past racism tend to be unforgiving because the show hasn't addressed it in any meaningful way. I think some sort of acknowledgement, an apology to the wronged parties even, would have gone a long way to endear him to many of people who aren't too hot on him, as opposed to implied off-screen personal growth if that makes sense. Of course there will always be some people who don't like him simply because he is Buck's LI and simultaneously is not a certain emotionally constipated single dad.

Like you said not everyone needs to like him (myself included), but I definitely agree that the vitriol is excessive. I'm glad that you've found such a deep resonance with Tommy, that's what art (yeah 9-1-1 is art fight me) is supposed to do.

[thesoftboiledegg]

This was such a great episode! I expected crazy shit to happen, especially with the hyper-realistic video game. I was like, "OK, this entire episode is going to turn out to be a simulation" and was pleasantly surprised when the "hyper-realism" was just a joke.

Anyway, it makes me so happy that Beth is bisexual. I figured she was, but the show never stated it either way. That's four out of five--only Morty is left. And to be honest, I think he's bisexual after his weird, unexplained obsession with Bruce Chutback in season 5, but the episode didn't outright say it.

I loved watching Beth and Space Beth fall for each other and go on dates. And OK, they're the same person, but they've made different choices and had wildly different life experiences. This created some tension and intrigue because they're not just repeating the same words and phrases back to each other like an echo.

Sarah Chalke gave a great performance, too. I'd say this is easily her best performance in the entire show. The dialogue was so natural that it sounded like it came from a live-action drama and not a cartoon. Rick and Morty has always had decent dialogue--and Rick in particular sounds like a real person talking at times--but this was another level of realism.

These new writers definitely know what they're doing. Damn.

I could NOT believe it when Rick said that he's fooled around with other Ricks. Holy shit. I actually paused and rewound the video because I was like "...did he seriously just say that?" It's been part of fandom culture for years, but I NEVER thought it would be in the show. Especially with C-137, who's a notorious Rick killer and hates them almost as much as he hates himself.

This makes me so happy! And it's yet another confirmation that Rick is pansexual. Give it up, homophobic fans, because the evidence just keeps mounting.

And like the other episodes in seasons 5 and 6, "Bethic Twinstinct" shows a new side of Rick--someone who's calmer, more patient and willing to help his family instead of just taking what he wants, then throwing a hissy fit when they get sick of it.

Rick's relationship with Jerry is changing, too. He says that he installed the "pillbug protocol" because he got drunk with Jerry one night (that's pretty big in itself) and installed the protocol because Jerry said that's what he "wanted most in the world." Rick wasn't being an asshole. He actually gave Jerry something that he wanted.

And yeah, Rick could be lying, but I think he's telling the truth this time.

Overall, this episode was a good combination of everything. Beth exploring various aspects of her personality, Rick bonding with Beth and his grandkids, Jerry letting out his frustration instead of being passive. Admittedly, Morty and Summer didn't do much, but they were still fun. I enjoyed the meta jokes about how they've had a million Thanksgivings and don't even know how old they are at this point.

This episode didn't explain those creepy posters where Space Beth appears to be controlling her family, so I'm guessing she'll turn up again--and this time, it might not be so friendly.

Anyway, the one part I disliked was the ending. The implication was "Haha yeah, Jerry's got two hot wives that will fool around in front of him." Normally, I'd call it lowkey sexist, but this episode did have Beth and Space Beth exploring a romantic relationship without Jerry's involvement. Still, I'm not a fan. I guess they're cucking Jerry in there? lmao.

Some might dislike this comparison, but Rick and Morty is starting to remind me of Moral Orel, especially with this episode in particular. Both shows start off as rambunctious comedies but explore more mature and dramatic themes as they go on. Honestly, "Bethic Twinstinct" wasn't that funny, but the character development is a worthy trade-off for me.

[banjobeetle]

actually yeah, thank you kaph, you're right. I reposted for lols at first bc I always find it funny that some rando just decided to give him such a ridiculous height and put it on some wiki somewhere, and from how I read op's post they were also making fun of that.

so now I gotta go on a rant about it bc I've wanted to talk about this forever

this is something I've noticed since I joined the fandom that some people depict Charles as this "stoic, huge, intimidating black dude that towers over everyone" stereotype, and he's not, really. since the original post is gaining this much traction I will say that there are people who will spread this harmfully to try to prove some kind of "point."

charthur tangent - unfortunately the idea that Charles is a huge dude is very common in charthur fanart (may even be rooted in it) and I feel like sometimes it's unconscious, but I notice that some artists make Charles huge and Arthur a little twink - both untrue. it's in fanfic as well. Charles does not tower over Arthur, in fact in game I notice that sometimes Arthur looks taller than Charles. even though Arthur calls Charles a "big man," people need to be reminded that Arthur can also lift grown men and throw them over his shoulder like it's nothing (kinda happens like a thousand times in the game or something) and he can probably do the same with Charles if he wanted tbh. (<- fanfic writers take notes please please write Arthur carrying him please please) not every couple needs to have a dramatic size/strength difference - just saying.

anyway Charles is a hunk, sure, but man, he's not the Hulk alright, and he's hardly larger than the player character himself. he's a cutie patootie who loves his horse, respects animals, helps people, and plays the harmonica ALRIGHT

I could go on about how the fandom sometimes treats this man and a few controversies surrounding Charles - a character that deserves NO controversy btw - but that is for another day. leave this guy's appearance and culture tf alone at this point, he is who he is and I'm tired of people trying to make him into an entirely new character for no reason.

What are they feeding him to be this tall

[sneezemonster15]

In my very short time in this fandom, I have been able to understand one thing. The reason why a lot of shippers and fans don’t want to even consider Sasuke and Naruto’s bond as romantic or that Sasuke and Naruto could possibly be gay, is because they simply don’t see the reason to. 

And no matter how much you appeal to their common sense or rationality, they won’t. 

Naruto is a shounen manga designed keeping teenagers in mind. I don’t know why Kishi thought it would be a good idea to write a gay love story in shounen, considering its limitations, but he did. And look how it turned out. An all out disaster in the end.

I have been attacked by five different SS and NH shippers on my blog in the last two days. And they got abusive, really abusive. When I looked at their arguments, they were all basically the same, identical. No amount of reasoning could get through their heads. They couldn’t tell the difference between canon and non-canon, canon and headcanon. They would feel completely at home devising uncorroborated ‘proofs’ for headcacons such as Sasuke does love Sakura, Sakura is a strong female character, Hinata was Naruto’s first bond, Naruto and Sasuke are brothers, Sasuke is a terrorist etc etc.

They simply cannot even fathom that Kishimoto could have written a gay love story in their favourite show with their favourite ship and their favourite self insert. 

A lot of these shippers are very young, they are the target group of this genre. At that age, justifiably so, most cannot comprehend the complexities of life, family, LGBT+ discourse, feminism, narrative, visual language, narrative choices and nuances etc. And agree with it or not, truth is Naruto is not a simplistic story. It is a multilayered and complex story about love, family, political intrigue, belief systems, ethical and societal values, complex gay coming of age issues, philosophical impressions, meditation on war, peace, importance of communication etc. and is quite cinematic in its execution for the most part, with a distinctive style of visual language.

 Apart from the fact that after a point it becomes clear that Kishi could not juggle all these different threads together and went out of his depth, he did manage to create certain narratives that made sense and facilitated the potential for a satisfactory resolution.

Sasuke and Naruto’s story was one of them. 

Sasuke and Naruto are complex characters, so is their bond. Kishi mindfully imbued their bond with numerous nuances and gay coming of age tropes but the problem is, these nuances that denote romantic love between the two went unregistered by the majority of its target audience. A majority of this target group could not even recognize these nuances, let alone understand them. It is also a factor that most viewers can recognise the same nuances in het pairings, but can't even begin to comprehend them in m/m pairings. It's unimaginable for them.

TBH, most kids self insert in the shows they watch or stuff they read, whether it’s a ship or a battle or a dramatic situation, whatever. It’s how they learn to understand media, we all did it as kids. A lot of these fans who watched or read Naruto as kids and are adults now, have certain emotional associations with Naruto the series and they won’t let any amount of rational explanation come in the way of that, it’s too personal to them. Which is also understandable. Some of them may be ready to accept gay culture otherwise but they won’t agree that Sasuke and Naruto are gay, that’s why they get so righteously angry when SNS shippers call them homophobic for considering them just friends or brothers. You can’t tell them otherwise because the truth is Naruto manga also has all the other tropes of shounen which are supposedly ‘suitable’ for kids (and I am using the word ‘suitable’ with a pinch of salt here, they would definitely not be suitable for where I come from), and they simply can’t even imagine situating a gay love story in it, which itself is an aberration in this genre. 

You can try engaging with them, but more often than not, it will be pointless. It is not something they need to be told, it is something they need to see for themselves. You can rant and rave about the significance and deeply emotional and romantic meaning of chapter 698, it won’t matter. They won’t be able to understand what they can’t see.

Sure, some of them are plain homophobes or less than bright, but mostly, this gap in understanding of the narrative is because of a misjudged medium on the creators’ part. Because of the limitations of this genre, Kishi couldn’t make Sasuke and Naruto’s romantic relationship explicit, nor could he give it up for the sake of shounen.

Kishimoto, what were you thinking really? I want to know, I really do. Someday, I hope you become courageous enough to admit it, but until that day, I will resent you from the bottom of my heart.