#syscourse tw

[thestrawberrypack]

There definitely like Are systems who thought they were endogenic but realized they were traumagenic but the anti-endo rhetoric of "even if you think you're not traumatized you must actually be secretly traumatized and just repressed it otherwise you're an ableist and a faker and an attention seeker" is uh, Profoundly Fucked Up, Actually

Going up to strangers who say they experience multiple people living in their head and saying "actually you must have some horrific mind-shattering trauma you don't remember" is, well, I just don't think it's very good for them, best case scenario is they're truly endogenic and know better than to believe some random asshole online, worst case scenario is they go digging and unearth trauma they were not ready to process and have a mental health crisis, all just so randos online can deem them "uwu valid"

[altosys]

i hate the pipeline of "what is your stance on endos?" to "do you support the hypothetical concept of endogenic plurality?" to "do you think endogenics should be allowed to find safe spaces?" to "how do you personally feel about endogenic systems (because this will change the course of history in the plural community as we know it for the rest of time)?"

like no. no no no. remind me why we're debating others' identities again? we as a community have so much infighting that we're not even paying attention to the real issues: FDC, ableism + sanism in the psychiatric industry towards plurals, and most importantly *making a safe space for plurals in the world.*

listen. "what do i think of the endos?": i don't give a shit. genuinely. i couldn't care less about someone's system origin. it's not that big of a deal. like, if you're traumagenic, endogenic, quoigenic, neurogenic, cool cool. but as someone who Could Not Give Less Of A Fuck, i will not be debating your identity/ies.

[anti-terf-posts]

In the comment section of a post about plurality (person in the screenshot is a self claimed terf)

[Image ID 1: A Tumblr textpost that reads "The block button is right there. You're actively spreading mental illness on the internet on a site full of impressionable children. /end ID 1]

[Image ID 2: A Tumblr texpost htat reads "You're just you. There is no we. The rest of it is demons. Please get help" /end ID 2]

Oh my god ??? That's such an awful thing to say to someone :(( I'm tired of people (cough cough ableists) telling people that they're faking their mental illnesses. YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHO HAS WHAT.

Anyways, to my systems, you're all valid. Just because some random stranger on the internet is deciding to be a piece of shit, it doesn't mean that you're faking it. 🫂

[subsystems]

At this point, I don't want anyone following me if they uncritically support The Plural Association. This is full rant mode.

I'm triggered and deeply disturbed by the stuff I see being pumped out by this group under the guise of "inclusivity." I'm sick and tired of TPA stigmatizing systems that are different from themselves. I'm sick and tired of TPA spreading misinformation about systems that are different from themselves. I'm sick and tired of the false promises of resources and lack of transparency.

Instead of listening to systems that are different from them, they make up shit about us to turn our own community hostile towards us. You think systems who are pursuing or achieved final fusion don't see the shit you say about our existence? The misinformation you spread about us? You think systems with CDDs don't see the way you talk about them? You think we don't see you inciting more syscourse on social media?

You think we don't see you manipulating the articles people send you with their lived experiences in order to spread your toxic views?

It's ALWAYS the final fusion hatred. Have you ever asked systems who have actually achieved final fusion whether their ideas about us reflect the recovery we desired?

"It does not allow for personhood" what the fuck does that even mean! Never once during my final fusion process did anyone in my system feel like we weren't seen as or allowed to be people. Never once did our therapist erase or minimize our personhood.

Do you even care that our concept of "personhood" can shift throughout recovery, too? That we collectively pursued final fusion because our personhood felt more authentic and wonderful with fusions? And that we wouldn't fucking voluntarily pursue a recovery option if it felt like it took away from our existence, dehumanized us, or harmed us!

You only give a damn about the systems who fit your narrow little box of "valid." The ones who act and talk in the way YOU want, who heal in the way YOU want, who exist in the way YOU want. But fuck all the other ones, right!

God, sorry for this rant but I am just. So done. Please don't send them any hate or harassment, especially people who aren't even associated with them or got paid to write articles & shared their lived experiences for them. I just sincerely hope for TPA to change.

[the-hadal-zone-sys]

We try so hard not to engage in syscourse but we're breaking our rule this once.

Dear anti-endos: get the fuck out of the pro-endo tags. Crosstagging in that way is quite literally just misusing the tagging feature, plain and simple.

The whole point of tagging on tumblr is to be able to see the content you want to see while avoiding content you don't want to. That system can only work if users respect the point of tags and use them how they're supposed to be used.

Setting all syscourse aside, wether you believe in endogenic plurality or not, you're just being a petty and pathetic asshole.

[entity56]

anti endos harassing random endogenic systems snd their supporters while whining about us invading THEIR space will never not be funny

[the-alarm-system]

Stop Fucking Calling Pro-Endo Systems Groomers

As a victim of real genuine sexual abuse grooming, stop calling me and those you disagree with predators. I understand where anti endo traumagenic systems come from, you're a system that was horribly abused and now anything you perceive as a threat MUST be after the children because you are constantly hypervigilant. However labeling those who are out of your closed minded understanding as predators/groomers is extremely dangerous right-wing rhetoric and is not excusable by any amount of trauma you endured. This is the shit terfs do to trans people because they fucking hate when minorities fight back.

We as systems are already perceived by others as dangerous predators who are after the innocent, it is what we are to others as MAD people. It is what psychiatry labels us as a eugenicist attempt to eliminate those out of the normal from society with the fascist weapon of psychiatric wards.

This shit is so fucking harmful and develops fear in anti-endo spaces that doesn't let them see the existence of others as "they are just trying to groom me and traumatize me" when that's just genuine cult methodology. It also showcases those who stray from the normal views, especially those psychiatric standards, as monsters after the children. I get it, you endured hell, you see everyone who doesn't support your closed-minded bubble as another evil violent threat.

How the fuck do you fight for plural acceptance when you're constantly labeling systems, especially trans systems like myself, as fucking groomers. You guys seriously need to reevaluate your talking points, this is blatant ad hominen that is direct abuse towards systems. That includes systems like myself who endured real true genuine grooming, I see you all repeatedly accuse me of being a fucking predator and it's so infuriating because you're using abusive and traumatic terminology to trigger others into staying in your stupid anti endo space.

Can't even hide that this was about my works, these are almost the exact wording I used on my post. I've been groomed multiple fucking times, and that's not even my worse trauma, me spreading system positivity is not grooming you fucking weirdo. I'm sorry you fucking hate your plurality but I don't hate mine. - Ardyn

don't harass this person

even in my anger and hurt and trigger rage, i forgive them. they're another victim of psychiatry just like the rest of us.

[echuschasma]

Dear Anti-Endos,

Respectfully, get the fuck out of pro-endo spaces. I know it's hard for you to watch us being happy and accepting ourselves for who we are. But that doesn't give you an excuse to raid our communities.

We don't hurt you. We don't claim to be taking over the community, nor do we "glamorise" plurality. We exist, and have carved out spaces for us just as you did for yourselves. We do not invade your spaces, telling you how to live, or how to present yourselves.

All we do is exist, being our own people. I don't understand what compels you to attack us, to make us want to revaluate everything about ourselves. Telling us we can't exist, or that we're lying to ourselves about our trauma, is completely unwarranted.

And as a reminder, plurality is defined as the state of two or more conscious beings sharing a physical vessel. There is no mention of trauma in that definition.

[starlit-harbor-citizens]

Friendly reminder that we are pro endo! Anti endos are NOT welcome on this page. Block and scroll past us if you don't like that, or we will block you. Our page is a space for all system origins. We will not tolerate denying someone's experience, existence, or way of living on this blog.

And, as a not so friendly reminder, do NOT comment about endos being "fake" systems. Their experience is real, is it not? If you think that endos aren't real systems, then you can get the fuck off this page. That's all :)

(P.S, sorry about this! we had a bit of an anti endo comment on our system positivity post, and we don't fucking tolerate that! again, sorry !!)

-Ambrose and Cain

[willow-schmillow]

not only do i think system kids/littles/child parts are far more capable than the tumblr DID community likes to posit, i think having the means to support one's child alters to only do "kid things" and avoid any kind of responsibility including but not limited to working, participating in serious conversations, paying bills and filing taxes, participating in trauma recovery and therapy is inherently privileged

[system-of-a-feather]

Full Integration, Final Fusion, Functional Multiplicitly, and General "Spirituality"

(Disclaimer: this is a very long post)

Heyyo, this is a bit of a hodgepodge of connected topics that I was thinking on this morning. For those that don't know, after like three months of being a really solid fused whole, we really decided that we needed to redivide back into our core parts to recenter, rebalance, and reorganize ourselves since our fused whole was loosing sight / vision of the "plot". We don't consider this "splitting" because we are still in - what we like to call "full integration" - and we don't really engage in much dissociation when we do this as the means of how we do this largely stems from the way we perceive, engage with, and view the concept of "self" and "identity." Our system highly values the mastery and art of a very fluid and ever changing sense of identity and self. This morning - thank you Chunn brain for batting our collective brain from the usual urge to get out of bed and get started with our day to give us time to really sit with our inner selves - we spent about an hour and a half and a small half hour nap just laying there thinking among ourselves and I wanted to share a few.

I think at the moment I am still mostly a fused whole and I had considered trying to go to Ray or Lin for them to write this, but it didn't feel right to go to Ray brain and Lin brain directly told me "Dude, this thought line started with Riku-dominant fused brain, trying to have someone else write it would be a disservice to the reflection. Let Riku or Riku-dominant fused brain do it, it's their thought." and you know, fair point. I think I'll use this post as a temporary "bye few thoughts" and love letter to our parts as a fused whole before leaving it to the individual specialists to do their things.

So introduction to this post aside, hello and temporary soon to be farewell before I choose to temporarily redivide into my main parts. Today is May 15, 2024 and I'm gonna document this a bit for when I come back whenever that is and kind of see if my fused-whole perspective and nature changes - mostly for myself. Online I go by Feathers, irl I just go by our chosen name.

I'm a (mostly, technically non-denominational independent, but most of my views and perspectives come from and align closely with) Zen Buddhist. I'm nonbinary vaguely transmasc (not really though?) intersex individual with the pronouns of they/them. I am extremely pro-endo and if I honestly felt like sticking around longer, I was thinking about writing a much more nuanced essay on tulpa-terminology discourse with my current reflections as a fused whole and as a pretty avid Buddhist but, unforunately, unless one of my parts still shares the same insight AND interest, that essay will have to wait for me to potentially be back (hey, Riku or Chunn might still want to who knows). I dunno what else to say, I love bird, Bleach, walking, driving, listening to music, video games, writing, art? I dunno man, I'm just me.

Documentation aside anyways, I gotta figure out where I want to start. I think I will actually piss my high-school English teachers off and start with the LAST thing in the title card. I might loose a lot of close minded white anti-endos here, but hey, if you are that close minded, then its your loss cause I'm just talking about late-stage recovery as a person with diagnosed DID that is considered polyfragmented. It's a fun conversation to have with other people with DID aiming for recovery so, if you're hell bent on hating people talking about plurality form a non-DID lens enough to disregard cool information, that's your loss. (Thank you XIV brain, crediting that to you for part of our goal today)

Buddhism, Spirituality, Plurality and Our Perspective of Full Integration

According to Buddhism, and one of the largest concepts and principles of Buddhism that we believe the most in and actively work to practice and cultivate the mindset of - is that the concept of "I" and the concept of a singular, distinct, and separate self from the world and others simply does not exist - only the experience and illusion of experience exists. I was talking about it with @quoigenicfromhell in DMs since they were interested in talking shop about Buddhism.

To save myself a whole effort of rewriting a discussion on how one can hold together the clear sensation of existing and being an individual with the idea and Buddhist understanding that the "self" does not exist, I'm going to copy a little bit of what I wrote in response to them. If it doesn't make sense cause its in a bit of Buddhist jargon, then oh well, I'm lazy, it's written for an audience that has done some reading and looking into Buddhist thought so RIP yall srry not srry (Thank you Chunn brain lol)

Honestly the development and understanding of holding those two things together (the non-self and non-existence with the clear experience of self and existence) is largely a lot of exploration on the understanding and respect for the experience without applying too much value or regard to said experience. Its kind of a hard thing to understand just based off of words alone and like all things Buddhism, its one of those sorts of things you really gotta sit on and explore in your own mental space, but like

The experience of self and personhood and existence is a denied concept in Buddhist thought, but its not a bad or incorrect thing, the experience of self and existence is kind of considered an inherent expression of life and the world and while its important to be cognicent that it is an illusion that can cause suffering and muddy an individuals ability to see Things As They Are, the experience and illusion of self is additionally an entirely natural thing to experience and is an important part of being able to, well, be

I kinda of personally perceive it kind of similarly to say a part in a system. Innately the part is not (at least in my experiences of systemhood) a literal entire separate being and thats an important thing to acknowledge for a number of reasons (life organization and direction, system accountability, etc) but its would also be incredibly foolish to completely ignore that the part operates, experiences themselves, and lives in the world (both inner and outer) as if they were an individual of their own

In the same sense that a part in a system can be seen both as an individual and a part of a whole / collective depending on what perspective and demands the moment needs. An individual can be seen both as the individual expression of a self informed by the arguably incorrect illusion of isolation OR as a part of the whole worlds expression depending on what serves the moment the best. I largely kind of see myself as part of a system that is the world much like I see my parts as part of a system that is "me". While the self may be an illusion, its not an experience that can be denied and it is an innate expression that in its own right can prove to be a great teacher So you deny the concept of a self but respect and revere the experience and innate natural expression of self

With that context in mind, while we do not believe in the concept of self and find that trying to seek out a concrete idea of a singular person and singular self in society is a source of extreme suffering, stress, and displeasure, we DEEPLY revere and honor the expression of self. As we see it, in a complete ideal and impossible the world would be in perfect harmony if we let the world express itself as it naturally does. We find that the experiences of self - in whatever form they take - are inherent and natural expressions of the world as a whole and to try to shape oneself to fit a specific image - may that be societally imposed or internally / personally imposed or a sense of envy or any sort of clinging or desire to a specific version / image of self - is a disrespect to the innate beauty found in the natural expression and a means of adding disharmony into the world.

As a result, our system and whole aims deeply, above almost all else to exist simply as we naturally would in any moment time to time. If we find that something we are doing with our sense of self is drawn and influenced too much on a "I should" or "I want" or "I wish" or "I hope" then we tend to pause, self reflect, and ask if we are actually existing in our natural state, or are we trying to fight against our natural state of self to fit into a self-imposed idea of what we "should be".

As a result of that, our system deeply values our flexibility, fluidity, and ability to change any aspect of ourselves, any opinion we hold, any identity label we consider, and our overall presentation in all ways and forms to a very high level. The desire to be consistent and predictable serves us little in simply practicing on "being" and finding the true and simply-run life that we want. That then results in why our system so casually flips around in system size, fusions, redivisions, how we refer to ourselves, etc. We find very little value in committing to labels and concepts and do whatever is natural for us.

Additionally, another large aspect of Buddhism our system deeply reveres and appreciates is the acknowledgement that there are "Buddhas" - or in less Jargon terms, potential for everything both internal and external to be teachers and guides into finding a sense of peace and simplicity in the world - and that it is deeply important to cultivating peace, happiness, and insight to actively always be seeking out the "Buddha" in everything and everyone. It's important to reflect, engage with, and talk with those "Buddhas" as they are the best and number one way to gain the insight that brings happiness and peace into life and removes excessive suffering and stress.

As many Buddhists agree (at least of the Mahayanan branches), everyone is inherently a Buddha because the world and everything is a Buddha. The only issue people have is that they can not connect, hear, and see clearly enough to be in that state due to a large number of human conditions - one large one being the aforementioned illusion of self.

Having lived my life as someone with DID and having gone through a lot of trauma therapy, self reflection, communication and coordination with my parts, and all that to the point we have reached functional multiplicity over a year plus ago and been able to hold a fully fused state for over three months, I feel like its a given to say that of ALL things in the world, the "Buddha nature" of my parts have been the best and most insightful teachers I've ever had. We revere each other's strengths and specialties greatly as each of us have taught the other great strengths, great understandings, great insights, and great appreciations that have collectively brought us so much peace and happiness. It's not to say any part is "enlightened" because each part is also deeply flawed and struggling in their own realms, but it is largely by working and talking and supporting one another and ACTIVELY looking to one another for insight and lessons about the world and our existence that we are able to reach a uniquely peaceful space.

For us, its an incredibly important practice - both for self care and in the art / spirituality of Buddhism - to regularly talk and engage with these specialized and uniquely-wise (and uniquely stupid - thank you XIV) parts of ourselves to gain deeper insight and overall understanding of ourselves and our place in the world.

In the same sense, it is why - despite being completely capable of operating as a fully fused whole - we regularly choose to INTENTIONALLY redivide into our parts. And no, its not us "splitting again" or even really throwing up any real level of dissociation / dissociative barriers. If anything, we usually do this through meditation and mindfulness.

It's a Buddhist practice, its not a mental disorder and its not stemming from the same mechanism's DID stems from. It might operate *based* on the foundation our history with DID stems from, but at this point in our healing, the way our system operates at functional multiplicity that is intentionally chosen to be that way AFTER reaching "final fusion" has a number of differences from how it operated before we reached general full integration.

Again, for those more familiar with the tulpa-terminology discussion, you might be able to see where I would have a long post delving into a highly nuanced and more middle-ground perspective of that syscourse from the paragraph above this one, but I'm gonna leave that cause I already know this post is long and it would detract from the purpose.

At this point, my system is mostly an "intentionally created one" to Western label standards. We personally do not see any significance or binary in plural VS singular people beyond it being a label some people identify with and not. Plural VS Singular is a false binary perpetuated in white, western, and european society and while I respect that perspective and view in a space that is primarily filled with white, western, and/or european individuals, I am going to firmly state that and expect you to give me that same respect. (and if you refuse to give me that same respect, then you are close minded and being very white / western lmao <- thank you XIV, again)

And so the other related but slightly different topic away from the more philosophical, esoteric, mysticism sounding topic of Buddhism...

Full Integration, Final Fusion, and Functional Multiplicitly

At this point, what we used to call "Wishiwashi Recovery" we kind of have taken to just calling "full integration" generally as a means of really breaking apart the suggested categorical and boxed binary of "final fusion" and "functional multiplicity" as our own experience and discussion with other systems at and near full integration have made us realize that the difference between functional multiplicity and final fusion is FAR more a spectrum than it is two seperate categories. Some systems stick to one end, some to the others, but the largest difference is in external and internal expression of the parts and less any fundamental or biological / clinical difference; at least not in terms of integration. (Note: Integration =/= Fusion; Integration is the general connectivity and accessibility of parts with less / limited / no dissociation)

It's a false binary to say Final Fusion or Functional Multiplicity and its why a lot of the "ones bad and ones good" syscourse is dumb. They're two heads of the same Doduo and they should be kissing. (JOKING, thank you Riku-Aya brain)

With that said, our system, as we've made clear, regularly and freely practices sliding and flying all over that spectrum as just how we like to engage with ourselves. We change between the two as we see fit and having spent probably like 9~ months in functional multiplicity and 3~ months in final fusion I wanted to share some pros and cons of both sides.

I would also like to put a disclaimer that this isn't meant to be "positives and why this side sucks" as much as it is the differences in life style according to our opinion and our experience. Both final fusion and functional multiplicity are absolutely WONDERFUL things overall and we love both states. If we got "stuck" in either, we would still be immensely happy. The purpose of this part is just to share certain differences in how we experience the two different ends. The Cons in these case are only "cons" relative to the "alternative" and not "to not ever reaching either"

Functional Multiplicity Pros:

A lot more clear and direct communication between parts internally that allows for a SHIT ton of internal banter, productive conversation about complex topic and perspectives from unique and diverse perspectives; the communication is a lot more intentional and a lot more in focus so its easier to properly sit and attend to the complex differences and sometimes conflicting directions

It's honestly just a lot of fun, not gonna lie. A lot more dramatic and extravagant expression + brain friends in a more overt sense

Easier to let certain parts of the brain take "breaks" - it's not the same as it is with not-fully-integrated DID but compared to Full Fusion, certain parts of the brain can "tune out" easier than not

More palatable to DID / OSDD spaces online

Easier to focus and use a wide variety of skills, interests, hobbies, and thinking patterns by simply just having a specialist part take their look at it

Generally easier to target specific boxes to look into as you process all the newly accessible memories and information from being highly / fully integrated

Final Fusion Pros:

Quick and a lot more inherent understanding of all parts on a general gut level without necessarily needing to fully think about everything and listen to every opinion and perspective; there is a lot more of an inherent understanding, trust, and awareness of the collective whole which makes decision making and seeing whats good for the system as a whole a lot easier

It's honestly way more calming, relaxing, and solid feeling. There is a unique sense of confidence, understanding, and trust within yourself and you have a HUGE arsenal of skills and interests that come from the combined parts that you've lived as

You are a lot more present and aware of your life and you actually get to live YOUR life and have all parts of yourself be engaged in life; no part feels really left behind or is caught off guard from having their brain partially turned off. The awareness is really present and engagement is so much more complete.

More palatable in real life and non-DID/OSDD spaces

Easier to simultaneously use skills from multiple parts at once; very much a jack of all trades all at once situation

Generally easier to integrate multiple complex and otherwise seemingly detatched boxes of memory and the past as you process all the newly accessible memories and information from being highly / fully integrated

Functional Multiplicity Cons:

Takes more intention, focus, and often time to get the same level of full understanding of the whole system when making decisions. It can be slow and it requires a lot more internal engagement which can make it harder to be fully present in life

Sometimes you can get what I call "lite" amnesia where a part was not paying attention and doesn't fully process what was going on / what is going on and so sometimes you get poor attention-driven "amnesia". It's small and easily recovered by simply going "hold up wait" and thinking back or asking another part

Harder to use skills from different parts at the same time; albeit definitely still possible and only "harder" relative to final fusion

Generally harder / requires intentional discussion between parts to integrate multiple complex boxes as you process all the newly accessible memories and information from being highly / fully integrated

Final Fusion Cons:

Less direct and overt bantering and discussion between parts (still present by the way, just less frequent and less overt). It can be a little less fun (still is fun cause they are sill there) and it can be a bit harder to fully see the extent of a more extreme perspective

It can be tiring and overwhelming to be aware and present so much for so long if you were accustomed to the breaks DID / OSDD tends to give parts

Easier to forget to use a lot of the skills and hobbies that may have been more niche to less-dominant and less-prominent parts; you don't "loose" the skills, you just aren't accustomed to using them as much so you can just kinda forget to use them

Harder to focus on a targetted recovered memory / information that you want to process and can sometimes be a bit overwhelming trying to connect a number of things at once

And this is all just to say that both are absolutely astonishing and great places to mentally be. The main point is that - for us - sometimes one state works better for us in the moment and another state works better for us later and that's completely cool cause - as aforementioned - the difference between plural vs singular is not a binary one for us anyways.

Anyways, I don't know how to wrap this up so I'mma just post it

Ideally today we will focus on cultivating our independent parts and return to Functional Multiplicity end of the spectrum so I guess tata for now

-Feathers

EDIT and PS: Anyone is allowed to add their thoughts to this so long it is in good faith.

[altosys]

psychologists have confirmed multiple times that you can only have DID / OSDD / be a system WITH TRAUMA so being neutral on the subject means you are okay with people faking a serious disorder interacting with your content and you are okay with people taking away resources for people who genuinely need the help.

https://psychcentral.com/disorders/dissociative-identity-disorder/dissociative-identity-disorder-causes#what-is-it

hope this helps.

"that typically underlies the condition" (Source: Dissociative Identity Disorder: What Causes DID? | Psych Central)

Dissociation does not always have to be due to trauma.

"You may dissociate the memory of the situation, place, or feelings about an overwhelming event." In other words, someone may not know they have trauma at all. (Source: Dissociative Identity Disorder: What Causes DID? | Psych Central)

(Source: Dissociative Disorders: Symptoms, Causes, and Treatment)

But you know what? Let's break down what you said, word for word, Anon. Shall we begin?

psychologists have confirmed multiple times that you can only have DID / OSDD / be a system WITH TRAUMA

General plurality is different than disordered plurality (eg. DID, OSDD). (Sources: Countering DID myths – we’re not all the same! | Sarah K Reece, More Than One)

so being neutral on the subject means you are okay with people faking a serious disorder interacting with your content

How can you tell someone is "faking"? Here I will list a bunch of reasons people (including traumagenic systems) have been fakeclaimed for their plurality: -Having introjects +Having factives +Having source memories -Not remembering their trauma -Remembering their trauma in excruciating detail -Being a minor +Being in therapy as a minor -Being diagnosed Shall I go on? Shall I? The only people who will insist one is faking are the people who think that a condition, which can take multiple appearances as no one has the exact same lived experience, looks the same in every single person who has it.

and you are okay with people taking away resources for people who genuinely need the help.

Explain how having more resources is taking them away? I may not be enrolled in any university math courses but something's just not adding up here. /rh

I would rather believe someone who is faking than disbelieve someone who is telling the truth. Not to mention how painful it would be to force someone to remember their trauma, all for the sake of knowing they're not faking. That's... that's just sad, no?

Hope this helped clear some things up, ~Electra/Vinyl ⚡/👾

[burningangel-burninghead]

Quite unfriendly reminder that alterhuman as a label is supposed to include everyone that feels like it fits them, endogenic plurals included. The creator of the damn label itself said as much. Go get your gatekeeping jollies on somewhere else 😑

[tommyssupercoolblog]

okay so let me check my notes umm... according to fakclaimers:

systems can only be kids because it only develops then, but also can only be adults over 20 or so because otherwise you're making it up for tiktok OR wouldn't possibly know yet, and you have to be diagnosed with DID/OSDD but you also have to be truamagenic or the diagnosis doesn't count even if it comes from a doctor, and if you're truamagenic but self diagnosed then you're lying or confused. if you're truamagenic AND diagnosed then you're a freak and dangerous to the public OR you have to live in secret or else you must be lying. you can't be plural on purpose through thoguhtform because then you're making yourself disabled and that's fetishizing but you also can't be plural against your will UNLESS you met the previous critera otherwise that wouldn't happen to you. and you can't call yourself a t-pla ever even though the controvery is around cultural appropriation and a stranger has no clue over the internet if you have the right to reclaim, which you VERY WELL MIGHT. but if you call yourself a thoughform you're cringe and too woke. if you're endogenic you can't call yourself a system but you also can't call yourself plural or a collective or anything else. If you're mixed-orgin you're just a confused truamagenic or a lying endogenic.

You also can't have introjects because that's cringe and cringe means you're lying but you also can't have original alters because then you're just roleplaying as OCs. as an introject you can't hate your source or be neutral because then why would you introject?? but you can't love them or else you're just a crazy fan pretending to be them. as an original alter you can't be TOO different from the original or that's just something out of a movie but you can't be alike because then you're not really an alter.

You can't have only nice alters who get along together because then you're faking and if you have alter conflict then you need to be locked up because you're probably a serial killer. and you have to only have split when you were little and can't split ever again even though that's something that happens all the time even past people's 20s, and you can't have any other disorder or you're just wrong about being plural, and you can't hate being plural because then you're attention seeking and clearly must be pretending to have a disorder for pity, and you can't love being plural because you're not allowed to love having a disorder or disability, and you can't be neutral about it because why the fuck wouldn't you have a big reaction to being so weird?? you're weird. so you must be lying about being weird because everyone else finds this shocking and disturbing or fascinating and surely so would you.

and you can't not date because then you're missing out (even if ur aro, ace, or aroace mostly) and you can't date because then you're abusing your partner and lying to them by being multiple people since you're clearly just one OR you're making them date strangers which is also bad, and you can't date another system because you can't know other systems personally or else you're all fakers, and you can't date in-headspace because that's too weird to be true. you can't all be striaght because that's unrealistic so you're faking but if your alters all have different sexualities that's a sure sign you're faking and just making up OCs and if you're all gay then you're ALSO faking and just trying to be Jefferson Miku Binder Woke and are a cringe SJW. You can't all be the same gender but you can't be different genders either and you can't have individual labels but if you id as genderfluid or pluralgender or something collective that's cringe and clearly a sign you're just a dumb lying teenager begging for attention.

you can't have a consistent host but also you can't have anyone other than the "original" front for too long. you can't be able to control switches but you also need to be able to "prove it" by switching in front of other people. you can't have different mannerisms or handwriting because that's overdone and dramatic and clearly just theatre and you can't have the same mannerisms or handwriting becase then you're clearly just lying. You can't think of yourself as one person because that's confusing, but you can't think of yourself as multiple people, because you share a body so CLEARLY you must be one singular person!!!!! If you use i/me pronouns you're faking and just forgetting to act plural as a plothole in ur lies and if you use we/us you're also faking and clearly only know about systems through tiktok. if you go by your infividual names you're being confusing and a hasstle and a bitch, but if you use a collective name or go by the og/host's name you're lying and a catfish abuser. if you get final fusion you're not plural anymore and don't get to talk about it. if you don't get final fusion you're a faker.

you can't literally be seperate because that makes no sense, you can't have more than one consciousness in one mind!! but you can't just be one person separated by memory walls with the EFFECT being "as if" you were actually seperate because then you're not really plural.

you can't act or dress normal because "we'd be able to tell" but you can't be visibly weird or plural because then you're fake, cringe, or both. you can't roleplay or cosplay because that means your plurality is cosplay too, but you can't avoid roleplaying and cosplaying because then you're crazy for identifying as another person than the og but not being able to dress up as a different person (and/or your source if ur an introject).

did i get it all?? no, probably, because there's way more rules and contradictions than even these, huh?? there's an infinite list of rules and ideas but really they're all just set dressing. all the conflicts just end up resulting in one, big rule. but they don't say the big rule because a long list like that, if it's spread out and not put in one post like this, doesn't look as mean. so it's easier to swallow it one bit at a time, to rule out one way of life after another, then to say it outright.

when every possible way to be is ruled out, you get the real rule, which is:

"If you're plural or a system, you can't exist."

there is no acceptable way to be plural. the only "correct" way to be plural is to be erased entirely.

[snow-on-mtsilver]

I hate posting abt syscourse n all but this just came to my mind

Do sysmeds realize that the more they accuse endos and non disordered plurals of "claiming to have a disorder" means that more endos and non disordered plurals are more likely gonna do that because they "won't be accepted for not having a disorder"?

Like they are, potentially, creating something similar to the streisand effect in my opinion, something similar to what I'm explaining happened during my syscovery, i was around a few systems, i was even dating two at the time (i know one is anti endo and i think the other is too)

I thought i HAD to go to therapy and get a diagnosis in order to be a real system even though everyone was supportive of my syscovery

I didn't even know there were systems that weren't disordered or weren't traumagenic at the time, i thought that if i was a system i had to be disordered and traumatized because i wasn't given resources that proved otherwise, which caused a lot of doubt

And you know what I've been doing after realizing i was mixed origins and non disordered? I HID IT from the two discord servers I'm active in out of fear, hell I'm still not open about it, and that's because of sysmeds. Only like three people in one of the servers know about it and I'm dating two of them.

So even IF endos or non disordered plurals don't realize they aren't disordered and/or traumagenic, they'll still believe that they have a disorder if that's what everything and everyone says, it's all a loop of doubt and fear because of sysmeds

(yes i am using sysmeds instead of anti endos for this entire post because they are two different things in my opinion)

[the-alarm-system]

The Comparison of Sysmedicalist and Transmedicalist: From a former Truscum.

The debate on the moral validity of the term “Sysmed” is repeatedly brought up within pro-endo and endo-neutral spaces. As a former Truscum, while I agree that the core of sysmedicalism and transmedicalism are not the same (dysphoria vs trauma), I feel that the arguments used to justify the projection of these beliefs are very similar to another. Transmeds and sysmeds are parallel in the use of fake claiming, black and white view of the science behind their arguments, and the idea that in order to be valid one must dislike their identity.

To begin with, the idea of sysmedicalism is on who is genuinely plural and who is not. Sysmedicalists are the gatekeepers of the system community; if you do not have trauma, you are immediately viewed as fake before you can defend yourself. If not fake, then sysmeds will be pushed that endos have trauma that they have repressed. This is an argument that can be seen through the disorders most anti-endos struggle with are inflicted in order to cope with past trauma. This is a standard view in the transmedicalist community in relation to gender dysphoria. If you are a non-dysphoric transsexual, you either are ignoring it or faking it. This is also an argument that can be understood: It’s very difficult to be transgender in an unaccepting society and an uncomfortable body, so repression may be done to cope. However, these arguments deny the fluidity of gender and plurality. They state that these things are intrinsic to struggle, and if you did not struggle then you are lying to yourself in one way or the other. It denies the liberation to label diverse experiences that do not fit in the perspective of these severely hurting people. In return, they use fake claims to express the insult they feel over the idea that someone is like them but not did not endure the same they did. Endogenics are not claiming to have a dissociative disorder, they are claiming plurality. Nondysphorics are not claiming to have gender dysphoria; they are claiming transgenderism. These things, again, are not exclusive to trauma or gender dysphoria. The term plural was made with the intent to self-identify and find liberation beyond the binary view of gatekeepers, as was the term transgender, which was made without medical transition in mind. Sysmeds and transmeds also argue that these “fakers” are taking up vital resources needed by those who are suffering. This is entirely unfair, as the reason these resources are limited is because of the lack of acceptance of both things, which the plural and transgender acceptance movements have opposed. “Trenders are taking surgeries they don’t need!” is matched against “Endos are taking DID specialist they don’t need!” and the only reason behind them is that it’s the only area they can find acceptance even if it’s inside strict spaces like needing gender dysphoria diagnosis and needed trauma. Truscum and Sysmeds have some responsibility for upholding these views on ourselves by pushing how plural and transgender experiences are completely disordered and only bring misery; obviously, seeing this come from them would cause cis and singlets to believe our so-called wrongness. Those who do not appeal to the painting of wrongness must be faking right? In my experience, and this is entirely on perspective, I was influenced to be anti-endo and anti-tucute by cringe culture that circled Fake DID videos and Transgender Cringe videos. Even while I was singlet, I denied my own plurality because I was afraid of being like those I saw in the videos. While I was truscum, I denied my genderqueerness because I didn’t want to prove these horrible transphobes right. I recognize now how often Anti-endos and truscums bring up cringe subreddits to back up their points, and it reminds me of my fear back then. In order to accept myself, I had to break free from the bars put up by society and those within the community. As always, this met with backlash, but I realized that either way, I would be despised for being who I was. Truscum and Anti endos put up this illusion that the people they hate are the reason for systems and trans people being even more stigmatized when in reality the oppressor is going to hate us all the same. Calling the ones who don’t fit in “fakes” is not going to make you “one of the good ones”, and the fact that both truscum and sysmeds are against acceptance movements is hypocritical in their stigma argument. 

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To continue, it’s often that sysmedicalist warp their argument to make it seem that endogenics are claiming to have DID without trauma. Their sources are almost always DID articles rather than articles of plurality which back up endogenic existence. Doctors who are in favor of endogenic existence are perceived as ignorant of dissociation and for the denial of resources to those in need. In science, it must be met with an open mind and the possibility for more. Research is constantly shifting and changing, and the medical paradigm is never stagnant. How does this compare to a transmedicalist however? The sources they use to justify their argument are just gender dysphoria articles that don’t include the full range of transgender people. The perspective they have is closed around sources with obvious limits when the proof against them is open minded and includes professionals they deem as liars. Personally, I never understood why they would both say how ableist the realm of psychology is towards systems yet use its strictness to hurt other systems.

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Furthermore, misery is at the core of both of these beliefs, and to which I understand these beliefs come from both fear, feelings of powerlessness, and self-loathing. To refute endogenics, anti endos bring up how miserable it is to be a system. They push their preference to be singlet and final fuse as a reason for why they are actually plural. This is familiar to transmedicalists; there is a video by Kalvin Garrah where he states that if he had the option to be a cisgender girl, he would do anything for it, as dysphoria is one of the highest forms of suffering. He argues that in order to be actually transgender, you would have to hate being trans. These feelings are valid to oneself yes, but they are projected onto endogenics and non-dysphorics as an answer to why they don’t exist. Plural and Transgender joy is rejected in these spaces because it goes against the guidelines they follow in order to be valid. If your entire existence is only because of disorder and pain, then if you’re happy in it, aren’t you as bad as the others? These are traumatized people who go after others in order to uplift themselves and appeal to singlets and cisgender people. These spaces have intersected because of how similar the arguments are(This is not to say that there isn’t an exclusionist issue within endo spaces, there definitely is, but what they are doing is just hypocrisy), and they constantly feed off gatekeeping to make themselves feel valid enough.

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In conclusion, truscum and sysmeds use fake claiming, closed-minded arguments, and projection of misery to debate why those who are unlike them are illegitimate. The medicalization of transgenderism and plurality compared to the push of acceptance is going to instead further the stigma. This essay was written to compare the two in the sense of their use of arguments, not to say that they are purely the exact same, even at the core. This essay is open to discussion as I would like to improve my writing for the future. The future is plural, which is why we fight.