#talking about like. Idk. Stuff That's Actually In Comics like how bruce gave cass a mini-batcave and she was like oh! cool and proceeded to

[apopcornkernel]

you ever see a post that for the first few sentences or so you're like YESSSS YES YESSS FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT and then you keep reading and. Oh. Never mind. You somehow just. completely went off the rails again

[wesavegotham]

Honestly. In main continuity, I feel Bruce shouldn't get married at all or even have a biological kid like Damian or Helena. Cuz marriage & fathering kids bring unnecessary soap opera elements to a grounded pulpy crime detective fiction format. Yeah, Damian had a cool arc with Dick in the Morrison run, but his continuing presence had sidelined other characters like Tim & Cass. Sigh...Im gonna get so much pushback.

Dick should be the one that gets married. I really wished that his wedding with Starfire wasn't derailed last minute. It would make more sense cuz Dick is more involved with the soap opera drama due to his time in the New Teen Titans.

just make know so when out there

Er...did you send this to the wrong blog perhaps?

Because while I agree Bruce shouldn't get married it's for different reasons than you. Batman's story is written to go on forever (like a classic soap opera) and even if Bruce got married to idk Catwoman, sooner or later it would only end in divorce, death or retcon anyway and then the batcat fans would whine even louder that the two people with huge committment issues and incompatible lifestyles aren't together forever. As if all of Bruce's romances (including Catwoman) weren't designed on purpose to have an expiration date and not work out. Like most relationships in soap operas.

But why are you writing to a Damian fan's blog that you don't think Damian should exist?😅 I don't even get why you lump Damian and Helena together, while Helena was implied to have grown up in a rather domesticated way on Earth 2, Damian is a completely different case?

I don't see how Damian brings "soap opera drama" to Batman that Bruce didn't also have with his adopted kids. My impression from older comics is that they were even more soap opera like because they had a stronger focus on relationship troubles and stuff like "might Bruce lose custody of Dick/Jason?" Getting a story in which Bruce and Damian's relationship is the A plot and not the C,D or E plot of an arc is damn rare.

Also, grounded pulpy crime detective format? Pulpy, okay, but I wouldn't call Batman grounded or even a detective format most of the time. Only a small amount of Batman stories are actual detective stories and he's dealing with aliens, magic or gods all the time and has done so for several decades now. Let's be honest, it's more an action/adventure story with soap opera like relationship drama that borrows some noir detective aesthetics.

Also, yeah, you're going to get pushback for saying stuff like Damian caused characters like Cass and Tim to be sidelined. Because you're wrong. DC has never sidelined Tim, they just started treating him more like everyone else. That's not the same🤦‍♀️

The evil Cassandra arc started before Damian's introduction (during a time when DC wasn't even planning to make Damian into recurring character, he was supposed to be dead after the Batman and Son arc) in Tim's Robin book. Damian had nothing to do with that storyline, if anything Cass was treated badly to give Tim a story.

Or are you talking about stuff like Steph and Cass getting erased in New 52 and believe that it had something to do with Damian? You, know, the character DC killed off two years into the reboot like they had planned to do since the start? And who has since been kept far away from the batfamily? During DC Rebirth Damian wasn't even under the control of the Batman office, the Superman office had him. And the Robin solo DC gave Damian that started with a tournament arc that some whiny Cass stans thought should have belonged to Cass? Guys, Robin 2021 is a book that only existed to do some damage control after DC absolutely destroyed the character in Teen Titans and to launch two events, Shadow Wars, which was more a Deathstroke Inc vs League of assassins story than a Damian one and Batman vs Robin, which so far is pretty much just a Batman focused story.

No idea why you talk to me about what to do with Dick, I never cared that much about him.

No idea what you're even trying to tell me with that last sentence.

Anyway, if you really feel the need to blame a character (and not simply DC) for how Cass was treated you should probably look more towards Tim or even more likely Barbara. Since it was DC deciding that Barbara should be batgirl again that probably got Cass erased in New 52. People who seriously think Tim is being sidelined in favor of Damian are simply delusional and entitled, sorry. Like how spoiled do you have to be not to see how many damn chances DC has given Tim time and time again. DC loves Tim.

[batfoonery]

Crafty Batkids

Literally. Just batkids doin' crafts. As someone who does..... way too many crafts to list here (I'll send a list if asked but just trust me) I feel like I've gotten a good feel for this.

Dick

My man grew up in a circus, regularly checking ropes and tensions....

Macrame. He's a pro at macrame. Maybe he doesn't do it often, but like. For his friends, he'll sometimes surprise them with lil gifts.

When any of his Titans buds move he makes them those fancy hanging macrame plant holders. Donna and Kori both love them, and have been known to fight over them during white elephant/dirty Santa type gift games.

Probably doesn't have the ability to sit still for long periods of time, so can't do anything that'll unravel if he puts it down. It takes him a long time to finish a project, so he really only buys materials as he starts a new one, and doesn't have any excess stuff lying around his apartment.

Jason

You cannot tell me he doesn't crochet to unwind. Like. Idk if he's any good at it, but he def angry crochets.

Probably has been working on one scarf for like five years

Never has consistent stitches

Likes touching all the yarns at the store

Probably just enjoys squishing the yarn in general tbh. It's slightly more satisfying than ever actually doing anything with the yarn.

Cass

One time Bruce took her to like. Silver Dollar City or somewhere else that had someone with a loom, and she was fascinated. She made him buy her a shawl and then made Tim put together a power point about why she should have a loom.

Bruce ended up caving and buying her one that's skinnier, for like table runners. It's great, because she's mostly fascinated with making gradients in her weaves.

She learned Swedish Weaving (it's a like an embroidery/weaving hybrid) so she could embellish her works.

Mostly gives them out as gifts. She gave one to Selina, who guards it possessively. Harley tried to borrow it once and about lost her fingers.

Probably also learned to make little tassles for the ends

Tim

Attention to detail? Obsession over the minutia? Oh. You know my boy is an epoxy resin artist.

Has a crafting station in his room that's meticulously organized. There's cubbies for pigments, flowers, glitters, bits of ribbons and strings, etc etc

Probably makes all kinds of thing tbh. Phone cases, trinkets, you name it. But pens are his favorites, because they're both simple and practical. There's like a whole army of pens that just... keeps growing in Titans Tower because he always forgets where he's put his.

None of his teammates realize he is the source of the pens. They (Kon, Cassie, Bart) just think the pens are an infestations and/or are pairing up and making baby pens. But Cassie and Bart love them bc ✨aesthetics✨

Probably has a tik tok or an insta where he posts videos of himself de-molding things to soothing lofi tracks. Literally just. All the vibes. It's gorgeous.

Steph

Also all the vibes. She is a bujo/stationary queen.

Her collection is much messier than Tim's, but has a surprising amount of overlap. Sometimes they borrow things from each other, and have collabed on their social accounts (he makes journal covers, she makes them into notebooks, he supplies her with pens, she uses them when making a weekly/monthly set up, etc)

Stickers and glitter everywhere

Probably sponsored.

Canonically draws cute little cartoons in the comics, they absolutely are a regular on her socials and in her bujos.

Duke

For some reason I don't peg him as being as craft-oriented as his closest-in-age sibs? He probably has less expensive coping mechanisms tbh

That being said I can see he would enjoy those stores where you go in and paint pottery and they kiln/glaze it for you? Like he isn't into sculpting it himself, but painting the little kitchenware pieces or statuettes is relaxing.

He paints mugs for all his sibs on their birthdays, and for Alfred.

Alfred probably has a whole army of custom mugs made for him by the kids, now that I'm thinking about it. Like half of them are from Duke, because he doesn't know what else to do with them. There are just so many because it's so simple.....

Kate Kane, Tatsu Yamashiro, and Jeff Pierce also all have mugs. Actually... Lowkey highkey I can see that Tatsu might have introduced Duke to this kind of stuff in the first place? I can see that she would enjoy something simple that you can do while trying to clear out your mind.

Damian

Well. Damian is a gifted artist, but this translates differently into actual crafts. It just does.

He's probably a good printmaker. Not only does this take advantage of his art skills and keen attention to details, but it's one of the oldest artforms still in practice today. Most printmakers develop their techniques by perfecting one of several forms of the art, which have been passed through generations, and have a really firm grip on art history. Those stories would appeal to Damian, in addition to the craft itself.

Damian is the most likely of his siblings to be able to sit still for prolonged periods of time and do a repetitive motion. In fact, it may actually be something he can enjoy if it means he can just zone out for a bit. So, he's probably actually decent at spinning yarn. If the sky is grey and rainy, he drags out a wheel and some pre-sorted rolags and spins yarn, exclusively for Cass, who then weaves it. He enjoys the progression of colors in the fibers as much as she does, and they bond over it.

The feeling of different fibers slipping through his fingers is also really soothing. Bad day? Time to spin some merino, because it slips like water through his touch. Need to feel grounded? Time to spin a cotton blend, because you have to be present enough not to chafe your hands on the rough fibers...

Probably also really good at embroidery, for the same reasons. Plus, it's really satisfying to feel and hear the pbt-psht, pbt-psht of the needle and thread pulling through the taut fabric.

Bruce

Obviously knows how to forge/metalwork. I like to imagine he's also dabbled in lost wax casting.

Probably has little trinkets he made when he was younger scattered around the house. Maybe he donated a few to charity auctions.

Has made rings/jewelry pieces. But doesn't talk about them. (One ring went to Selina, and a pair of earrings went to Talia)

Alfred

The all-talented, all-knowing. There's probably nothing he can't do. He already sews all their outfits. So I mean.

Sometimes it feels really good to have something to stab. I'm not saying he does needle felting, but I'm not saying he wouldn't.

Probably was the one who taught Bruce about lost wax, and the one who helps Damian research about printmakers.

Silently supplies all the kids with all the art things.

Has a chest in his room filled with all the things that he's been gifted with over the years. There's little uneven macrame hanging from when Dick was just getting the hang of it, lumpy scarves that are too short for anyone to realistically wear from Jason, linen sets made by Cass, various trinkets from Tim, handmade cards and notebooks from Steph, mugs from Duke, and old embroidery pieces from Damian in unevenly stained hoops.

[ectonurites]

character ask thing: cass cain

yess also this got kinda long bc i used a lot of pictures WHOOPS

First impression

kinda just ‘ohh thats the spooky lookin batgirl who doesn’t talk much but looks really cool’ 

Impression now

after actually reading through a bunch of her comics i have fallen in love w her oh my god like. when i first heard of her but hadn’t read anything i totally thought she was cool conceptually, but actually reading her batgirl (and then i know b&r eternal can be kinda controversial for how it reintroduced her and the changes it made to her but like... i still think there are interesting bits in that version of her story too) among other things just... i love her! she’s way more complex than a lot of people treat her (bc she’s not just... the quiet one who does no wrong. she can be snarky and silly and defiant she just might not use her words for it all of the time)

Favorite moment

this is hard and idk if this is my favorite ever but i have the pages on hand and love this so that scene where Cass went to secretly dance alongside a ballerina and then just NOPES outta there when she gets seen

which then later leads to this in the same issue once she’s back home

i am just so weak for all the instances of cass and dance... her being able to use it as a way to express herself and to communicate when speaking and words are too hard... it means a lot to me. it was def my favorite part of detective comics rebirth. then also gonna bring up this:

i just super love the one issue she shows up in young justice for. like... that description page for her makes me 🥺🥺🥺🥺  and then the ‘dont shrug at me young lady’ makes me loose it sdgfdhjgnf

Idea for a story

i just want a new run of her as batgirl again man. like. it’s what she deserves. and she’s back in the suit so we’re getting there hopefully, or at least to something along those lines, but i just want her to have cool adventures being an incredible fighter with a huge heart who’s working her way towards eventually taking over for bruce as batman 

Unpopular opinion

i definitely don’t hate the Orphan identity for her as much as a lot of people do. like I think within the context of how she has been reestablished it like... worked fine, but i do think that it has stayed way past it’s usefulness. I think the moment after this whole thing happened

she should have switched either back into the batgirl suit or to at least just something else. the fact that she continued to go by Orphan after a comic literally gave us the line ‘Cassandra Cain was no orphan” drives me NUTS

Favorite relationship

ok i almost put this as a favorite moment but decided to just have it as something to exemplify my fave relationship of hers, her & steph

the bond between the two of them just... i love it. they help each other learn and grow in different ways and i’m happy to see current comics putting them together again a lot but it feels so hollow now because it doesn’t feel like the people writing them currently really... grasp their old dynamic the same way, but i’m hoping that maybe that’ll start to change soon.

Favorite headcanon

i talked about it the other day in a headcanons post but just her interacting with other forms of dance besides just ballet too! also like i want us to see her actually do a dance class or something i think that would be so fun.. her having recitals and stuff... it could be so cute pleasee

[bigskydreaming]

Hoo boy. Actually using a cut on this one because it got long even by my standards, so....yikes. LOL. Umm, it started out salty but then it got angsty and then it got salty again and then maybe salt-angsty? Idk, whatever, its about Tim and also Damian and also BFTC and also Ric and its a freaking mess but also probably more coherent than I’m advertising it as here? I don’t fucking know, man, my baseline for this stuff is so fucked, never take my word for it. Okay, anyway!

So I’m probably always gonna be more salty about Tim and the reactions to the Robin/Red Robin thing and to Dick not believing him about Bruce, than I am even about people giving Dick shit for being a bad brother to Jason.

Because with the latter, even though I shout a lot about how there’s no real canon basis for the “Dick was an asshole to Jason before his death” stuff, it is true that most of their interactions had to happen offpanel, where we didn’t see them....so even though I’ll always be like umm, guys, why do you insist on headcanoning Dick as Douche of the Year when you could just as easily headcanon him and Jason getting along....I mean, I do still understand that we didn’t see either of those things really, so its dealer’s choice.

But its different with Tim, because we DID see Dick build a relationship with him, practically every step of the way. For years and YEARS, both in real time and comic book time, Dick made Tim a huge fucking priority in his life. Called him his brother long before Bruce adopted him. Took him places to train, and tried to make training fun too at times. Checked in on him, came running when he needed help. Dick DID THE WORK of building their bond. We saw it happen, in canon. It didn’t just magically appear fully formed, no more than Dick’s bond with Damian did....yeah Tim wasn’t as resistant as Damian was, but that doesn’t change the fact that Dick made an effort to show up in this kid’s life as often as he realistically could. Dick was a rock solid presence for Tim that he could count on, knew he could count on, he’d witnessed with his own eyes how damn much Dick cared about him and worried about him. Dick DOTED on this guy.

And then pretty much the first time Dick does something that Tim and his stans didn’t like - not even because he WANTED to, but because he literally felt like it was the choice he HAD to make, to extend some kind of meaningful gesture that this ten year old assassin who pretty much ONLY saw value in things like symbols and legacies and mantles at that particular point in his life would actually see as a reason to stay - the second Dick prioritized someone else over Tim, not because he didn’t want to be there for Tim, but because he had to make an actual CHOICE, he was just one person, he literally could not be all things to all people all at the same time....

Like, Tim and a lot of his fandom act like this was Dick abandoning Tim as a brother. Rejecting him. What????

And for the record, if we’re gonna talk about how dare Dick choose this kid he barely knows over Tim, his brother of years, not even mentioning what Damian did to Tim already.....like, let’s not forget that its not like Damian was some random stranger who held no possible emotional significance to Dick whatsoever. Like, Tim was fixated on his conviction that Bruce was alive, but Dick didn’t disbelieve him just to be an asshole, he just genuinely believed that he’d buried his father....and here was this prickly little ten year old who was the LAST possible piece of Bruce left in the world. Like, screw the idea that Dick was more drawn to Damian from the start because Damian was ‘the blood son’ and Bruce’s heir more than Tim was, that makes zero sense without Dick devaluing his own equally adoptive connection to Bruce himself. 

Nah, instead try the take that for Dick, Bruce wasn’t just the source of his family in the sense that Bruce was a second father to him....it was also because time and time again, Bruce added to Dick’s family, grew it by yet one more sibling, gave him more family than he’d ever have had without Bruce....and here comes Damian. One last addition to Dick’s family, via Bruce....and he’s not especially significant for the reason that he’s Bruce’s biological son unlike the rest of them, and this somehow elevates him over Dick’s other brothers from the start.....nope, its just as likely a read that Damian’s significant for Dick, he’s someone Dick HAS to take a chance on, HAS to bring into their family one way or another, has to get to ACCEPT them as family, to BE family, no matter what it takes.....because Damian is the last new sibling they’ll ever have, as far as Dick knows at that point. 

Bruce is dead, he thinks. There will be no more new brothers and sisters from that point on, whether biological or adopted....because Bruce isn’t there to be the one to widen their family again, one more time. No, Dick thinks, that falls to him now, he’s the only one who can do that.....he’s the only one who can make this one last gift from their dad, this prickly assassin child who so clearly is desperate for love and affection and approval and the very same things so many of them struggled with, its up to Dick to make sure he doesn’t LEAVE, that he doesn’t reject THEM, that he stays, stays family even without Bruce to be the connection...because anything less than that, anything other than making this one last potential brother, because he’s already connected to Bruce, the actual basis of that connection being shared biology not really that relevant, just that this connection EXISTS even without Bruce’s presence....failing to make him their brother in REALITY, in FULLNESS, rather than just a tangential association that benefits none of them, adds nothing to their family...to Dick, the very idea of that must be like it’d be failing Bruce one last time, squandering his last gift to their family, when his greatest gifts have always been the siblings he added to their number. 

So Dick had to get Damian to stay, to see that he had family here, by any means necessary, and so of course Dick did the only thing he knew would work, the only thing that has EVER worked except for in the case of Cass who is an outlier and should not be cited in reference to any of her brothers’ emotional obstinancy ever...he gave Robin to Damian....the only thing that has ever bonded him and his brothers, the only thing Dick has that didn’t come straight from Bruce and that he could offer on his own, the only thing that all his brothers value so highly, and thus in that they’re all connected.

And its like, so the first time Dick does something that Tim actually doesn’t like, that’s proof that Dick doesn’t really care about him, like all those years of bending himself into a pretzel to try and show up for his little brother every chance he could, no matter what else was going on in his life....like suddenly they mean nothing. Like Dick was only ever actually a good brother...so long as he was doing what Tim wanted. So long as he was prioritizing Tim properly.

And people compare it to Bruce and what happened between he and Dick years earlier, when Bruce fired Dick as Robin, when first off, there’s the fact that Robin is and was Dick’s and never Bruce’s, but I’ve gone over that to death, but secondly, there was no FIRING Tim as Robin, like there was no scene ever where Dick took Robin AWAY from Tim. I realize that might be parsing semantics to a degree, as by making Damian Robin, there was the implicit assumption that Tim now would no longer be Robin, but my point is that....there was NO scene where Dick did or said anything that can reasonably be construed as him thinking Tim wasn’t good enough to be Robin, wasn’t cutting it, was a liability, or that he wasn’t his brother. Could it have been written better, the exact how and when of making Damian Robin, that took Tim’s feelings more into account? Sure. 

But I maintain there is no version of that scenario that was ever going to satisfy fans who simply wanted Tim and only Tim to be Robin and weren’t interested in this newest one....which is ENTIRELY different from what happened between Bruce and Dick, no matter WHICH version of that story you go with....because there WAS no one else to be Robin at that particular time. It wasn’t happening because Bruce felt someone else needed it more than Dick. The ONLY conclusions there, were always going to be that....Bruce’s motivations or thoughts there were about Dick, in some way or another.

With Tim and Damian.....it wasn’t that at all, because it wasn’t like Dick just out of the blue said hey, Bruce dying has made me decide its too dangerous out there, I’m going to be Batman but I’m going to do it alone, I don’t want you being Robin anymore. No, he only did it to GIVE Damian something, to bring in MORE family, make that circle WIDER and try and build a connection that at the time was non existent. That’s an entirely different motivation than just wanting to TAKE AWAY Robin from Tim, purely because of something to do or not to do with Tim and nobody else.

And Dick literally told Tim it was because he felt Tim was too GOOD to be Robin anymore? Because he viewed Tim as an equal and wouldn’t be comfortable ordering him around in the field, the way Batman and Robin’s dynamic has always worked? And that just....didn’t mean anything to either Tim or most of his fans, because it wasn’t what they WANTED to hear, it wasn’t ‘oh I realized I made a mistake, Tim please be Robin again’ so it might as well have never been said, I guess.

But another huge component of Dick’s angst when he was fired as Robin was because no matter how close he and Bruce had been before that, Bruce had never actually taken the initiative and clarified what their relationship was without Batman and Robin in the picture, what Dick was to him, if and when Dick was no longer Robin. And even after he fired Dick, its not like he stepped up then either to offer an alternative view of how he saw Dick....he was perfectly willing to let Dick just go off and become Nightwing and at no point take the initiative to reach out to Dick and clarify hey, just because I thought it was too dangerous for you to be Robin, that doesn’t mean I stopped viewing you as my family, as my son. No, he waited for Dick to come back to HIM before he could even manage to utter that he’d missed Dick at all.

And that is not Dick and Tim’s dynamic and never was??? Because Dick CONSTANTLY told Tim he was family, he was his brother, long before all of that went down in RR #1. Dick expresses affection openly and often, so much so that the joke has long been that he can be smothering with that. And at the time, Tim was very much legally a Wayne, as was Dick, so....where on earth in any of that was the implication that Dick was in any way trying to reject Tim as a brother? That whatever Dick did with the mantle of Robin could at that point have anything to do with their status as brothers....which had for a long time by that point existed entirely independent of what they both did or didn’t do as vigilantes?

Not to mention the fact that unlike with Bruce and him, where Bruce had shown no effort to reach out to Dick in the literally-according-to-canon EIGHTEEN MONTHS between firing Dick after the Joker shot him and Dick coming back to the cave to confront Bruce about adopting Jason and making him Robin....

Again, not remotely accurate in comparison to Dick and Tim, because even when Tim left, pissed off and hurt....Dick still tried to check up on him constantly, worried about him? Asked others to look after him when Tim kept rejecting his attempts to reach out? Where the fuck does all this stuff about Dick making no effort to hang on to Tim and keep him in his life come from, I would def love to know.

Because if its just about the fact that Dick didn’t believe him about Bruce being alive at first.....I’m just gonna say it. That’s a really fucking shitty thing to hold against someone. LOLOL, yeah, he sucks because he ‘refused’ to believe Tim that the father he’d just buried and whose life he essentially now was living - raising his son, running his company, wearing his mantle, protecting his city, all of which is despite the fact that Dick’s ONLY wish for himself for years, as Tim well knew, had simply been to be his own man, live his own life, not just a pale imitation of Bruce’s....

Like basically, that whole thing there is Tim and/or his fandom resenting Dick for.....being too emotionally fragile at that point in time to deal with the possibility Bruce might actually be alive, might be able to be brought back, brought home....since what goes hand in fucking hand with that is the CRUSHING EMOTIONAL DEATHBLOW that’s the inevitable fallout of THAT if Tim turned out not to be right.

We of course know that Tim was right in the end, and we knew it even then too, those of us reading back at the time....because its comics, and its Bruce, and of course he wasn’t going to stay dead forever, which meant yeah duh, Tim is probably right, even without any evidence yet we can say that.

But without that awareness, without any kind of GUARANTEE....can you imagine being told hey, I know it literally sounds too good to be true, too good to be believed, but that thing you’re probably wishing like hell could happen, your dad could come back, maybe he’s not even really dead at all....guess what, it can! And like....you wouldn’t at all be hesitant about that, afraid to trust it, afraid to believe....because that means finding out later that he really was dead and not coming back would be like losing him all over again? Even though you never actually even got him back, just the idea, the hope of it, but that’s still enough to make you start to dream of how much better things could be, if and when you find him and bring it home....except nope, now you have to wake up again, dream’s over, time to face reality....your dad is still dead and he’s always going to be.

And then can you imagine being RESENTED for that, for not believing that because you’re literally just trying to protect yourself from losing anything else when you feel like you’ve already lost everything you can possibly bear to lose and anything else could break you.....to have this thrown in your face and cited as further proof you don’t really love your little brother, you’re rejecting him....when it has absolutely nothing to do with his credibility and everything to do with the freaking emotional toll that’s demanded of asking a twice orphaned guy to just take it on faith because its you that hey, our dad isn’t really dead, we can get him back?!

Not to mention the fact that Tim had almost gone some VERY fucking dark roads in the not too distant past because he had trouble dealing with Kon’s death, and those of his other friends, not to mention his other dad, Jack....all things that fandom cite for why Dick was so brutal to basically pile on to all of Tim’s other losses by taking Robin away too....but Dick KNEW all this and that’s literally a huge part of WHY he was so worried about Tim, because being aware that your little brother canonically has trouble dealing with major losses and was still reeling from a shit ton of major losses when he lost Bruce too and oh god, I know I made it worse by making Damian Robin instead but I didn’t know what else to do there and its not like I can take it back or change things when I didn’t see an alternative in the first place.....like...are these not legitimate freaking reasons for thinking that said little brother insisting that Bruce wasn’t dead and they could get him back the same way he refused to accept there was no way to bring Kon back....miiiight be more to do with explantions other than...oh yeah our Dad is actually totes alive and just time traveling because that’s what happens when magic god energy kills you, duh, everyone knows that?

Like, its not really that much of a stretch even to take practically everything Dick says to Tim about Tim’s possible mental state as just Dick projecting like hell about his OWN mental state and how much he’d fucking love to take a break and take some time to get his head sorted out before diving right back into the chaotic mess that is their day to day lives.

But like, both Tim and many of his fandom STILL really just don’t even hold back about not caring about any of the time Dick put into building and nurturing the fuck out of a happy, healthy, wholesome relationship with his little brother, not when he then turned around and ruined it by hurting Tim by.....reluctantly prioritizing someone else at a time that Tim really could have used him in the specific way and dynamic they were used to....and not being willing to believe him about Bruce, and in doing so open himself up to the possibility of losing Bruce all over again.

Like???? So many of the mistakes Dick is most vilified for in Batfandom as a whole are in reality actually just....times when he did something people don’t like, because it didn’t center or prioritize their personal favorite SPECIFICALLY, as in above all others. Even though in almost all of these specifics, Dick is actually asked to CHOOSE between two different loved ones or siblings, both equally demanding his attention and focus and efforts....and he’s only allowed to prioritize one, because that innately creates conflict with the other.

Like I know when we stan, its pretty natural for us to get blinded by our biases and not look at the whole picture, like of course we all inevitably tend to think our personal faves were most right or most valid or most hurt, but like just look at that for a second....

Look at how many of the occasions when Dick is considered to have made a mistake and really done wrong by one of his family as a result....how many of those situations are literally a catch-22, where the ONLY way for Dick to have made the ‘right choice’ in the eyes of one particular character’s fans....is for him to have chosen to prioritize that character over the one he actually prioritized in canon....which simply means that even if Dick had taken the road not taken there in canon, he STILL would be just as resented....just by the other’s fans now instead. 

Or when its not about fans at all, but characters, like in the Forever Evil aftermath....the ONLY way for Dick to have made the ‘right choice’ in the eyes of all the characters who give him crap for it later....would have been for him to look his father in the eye, while he himself is at absolute rock bottom, an emotional wreck, and in response to Bruce’s blatant manipulation of Dick’s guilt complex there, say “no, I’m not going to do what you’re asking me to do, even if it costs me your trust and affection?” Like can you imagine being pissed at a guy for NOT being able to say that to their dad when their dad is currently trying to pull the mother of all guilt trips...as if that’s an easy thing to do even when someone’s calm and at their peak emotional health....and not like, recovering from having been tortured and killed and revived just the day before?

Like ahflshglashfa. Srsly? C’MON!

And my question is okay, so when have ANY of the others ever been DEMANDED to make a choice, to pick either Dick or someone else to make their priority...and they chose Dick over that someone else? The CLOSEST I can actually come up with is the end of Under the Red Hood, when Jason taunts Bruce by telling him he better go check on Dick.....BECAUSE THEY BOTH SAW THE SKY TURN GREEN FROM GOTHAM CUZ SOMEONE JUST DROPPED A NUKE ON DICK’S CITY.

(And for the record, I ABSOLUTELY have read stories that bring that up as a point of resentment for Jason, that Bruce was willing to leave their confrontation....because he was worried about Dick....who was in the city that was just leveled by a nuke. Like...that’s not him running to kiss Dick’s boo boo all better because he skinned his knee maybe, lmfao.)

But srsly, its easy not to get blamed for making the ‘wrong’ choice in an impossible ask that doesn’t ALLOW for you to ever make an actually ‘right’ choice...when YOU’RE not the character who is constantly put in that lose/lose situation, specifically in regards to your family. Which is not really a situation that Jason, Tim, Cass, Damian, Duke, are really ever often in, you gotta admit?

AND DICK CONSTANTLY IS.

But yeah, I’m especially cranky about this today, hence the epic rant even by my standards lol, because I’ve been stewing about the Ric storyline still, and what I was saying there about how nobody’s ever really asked to put forth effort that actually COSTS them something, for Dick’s sake specifically...

Because that’s what made me think of the Red Robin stuff, after BOTC. Because just like the Batfamily apparently has no big issues with leaving Ric alone, per his wishes....it would have been SO much easier for Dick to just take the hint when Tim basically was like I’m mad at you, looking to stay that way, so leave me alone unless you’re ready to help me do what I think needs to be done. But Dick DIDN’T stop trying, even though Tim was PISSED at him, and making no effort to hide it, Dick was still like....fuck it, I’ll send Steph to try and look out for you if you won’t let me do it, and yeah maybe that’s less than fucking ideal too but I’m not making good decisions here for a reason like OH YEAH MY LIFE WENT DOWN THE CRAPPER WHEN DAD DIED TOO, and just because you’re mad at me doesn’t mean I can stop worrying about you.

So Ric was mean to the Batfamily, and because of that, I should give a shit what this has to do with them and whether or not they owe it to DICK, their brother, friend, son, to still show up and keep TRYING anyway, no matter what Ric says, because they’re not here for him anyway, they’re here for Dick Grayson, who they all know and believe is still in there somewhere, and they’re not going to let him get hurt anymore than he has been just because the guy in the driver’s seat right now insists he’s not him and doesn’t want to be?

Nope, I’m more like, WELCOME TO THE CLUB, BATFAMILY, FOUNDING PRESIDENT: DICK GRAYSON. Now you too get to for once share in the joys and delights of having to ask more than once for your brother to let you so much as freaking HUG him, without him insulting you or throwing that in your face or bringing up all the times you did stuff he didn’t like and that’s why he doesn’t want you around.

Except.....*searches high and low* no Batfam currently demonstrating levels of give a shit and/or remorse in regards to Dick, shock, woe, how can this be, what a mystery, much befuddlement.

[lysical]

I was introduced to a lot of the Batfamily via the Morrison run. How screwed up is my perception of them? Comics are an effing minefield of characterization—I know, I’m a Hank Pym fan because I ran into him first in one of his highly rare likeable periods. Any tips/recs? It feels like everywhere I go the characters aren’t the “real” ones, and idk where to find these “real” ones. (This goes for Tim too, although you seem understandably down on him lately & might not want to talk Drake anymore

It does vary by character, actually. There are some fundamental things he does that are a bit out of there, and other things that are just plain offensive, but he’s not the absolute worst to come in on, as damned by faint praise as that is. 

Long post ahead

Bruce: Morrison and I fundamentally see the character very differently. He sort of subscribes to some ideas about Bruce as Batman that I just don’t like re: emotions, life, family. He uses a lot of allegories and devices in his work and the depth is there, I just don’t agree with what he was doing and had to say about Batman on a fundamental level. Post-Crisis Bruce is a bit all over the place. A lot of different writers got their hands on him and the dark and gritty post-Jason transformation of the character was intense and permanent. Because of this, coming into Morrison doesn’t really hurt you that much--especially since for a lot of it he’s functionally dead. Maybe check out some runs like Hush (more emphasis on the family), Dark Victory (some young Dick Grayson), Batman: Year One (say what you want about Miller, but it’s a decent book and the atmosphere and art are great for an introduction to the modern character), and then hop over to some of Bruce’s team books. Sometimes characters get distilled well over in their team books compared to their solos (especially since the Bat Department is...weird at times). Maybe check out Superman/Batman, the old team up from the early 2000s. For Bruce it’s just best to cast a wide net and read a variety. JLA: Tower of Babel is a good one to see Batman and the wider superhero community in conflict, which brings in a lot of Batman’s negative aspects in a way that was decently balanced and didn’t villainize him via narrative even as the characters might have felt that way about him (Young Justice certainly did XD), but I havent’ read it in a long time so ymmv. 

Dick: One of the few characters that didn’t get that bad a hand by Morrison, or too much of a characterization shift (his character shift had happened during the Chuck Dixon and Devin Grayson period, although the latter more than the former). Unlike new 52 onwards, while he was softened a little to pair effectively with Damian, it wasn’t too much as we saw at times later and how fandom kind of tends to portray them (’Shut the hell up, Damian’ comes to mind). The Dickbats run was a nice change and development for Dick, a natural progression. The things that were sort of tweaked to create conflict with that transition (Dick not wanting Batman, some characterization behind that) were pre-Morrision, during Battle for the Cowl and the setup to Morrison, so while they follow on from that they’re mostly absent from the run. For the modern Robin Dick stories, go for Teen Titans: Year One, Dark Victory, Batman: Year Three, a couple of the other year ones are decent, although some incorporate those characterization shifts, but that’s comics. I’d go back to New Teen Titans (starts in Pre-Crisis, goes into Post, but the book doesn’t have a huge change due to the crisis and it’s just a really good run, deserving of being the benemoth during that time period that it was) to get the best of Dick on a team, then maybe check out Prodigal (follows on from Knightfall, Dick’s first run as Batman), skip Nightwing: Year One (it’s got tiny amounts of Dick and Jason bonding but Dixon ripped everything else about Dick’s early Nightwing period to shreds). From there, depends if you want his solo or his team stuff, he’s a pretty easy character to follow. I like to start chronologically with him because then you see the shifts happen as he falls back under control of the bat-books, and his solo and team stuff have some interesting contrasts (I lean towards his team stuff generally because Dick has always been about that for me, rather than running solo). 

Babs: Birds of Prey is her essential stuff, I don’t think Morrison really did that much with her but my memories of it all are a bit vague now. I’d personally take anything when she’s romantically involved with Dick with a grain of salt, that relationship was a bit of a disaster and they both do terrible things to each other (I believe the one responsible for it all is Devin again but it’s been a while since i visited that train wreck) and there’s some victim-blaming that happens that’s not so good. I prefer Oracle having a bit of distance from the Batfam, as she’s just surpassed being someone who is under Batman’s authority and is just crucial to the entire operation of the superhero community in general, so Bird s of Prey. 

Jason: Hnng. Here’s where Morrison really just decided to throw away established DC continuity and try his hand at a bunch of crap that fell completely flat. Just toss it and purge, tbh. Winick got Jason back late in the run but it was too late for that. Maybe there are tiny aspects of characterization that aren’t bad (Pride and Prejudice) but Morrison misunderstood Jason on a much more fundamental level. Also the red hair was probably some attempt to make a witty visual pun and add ‘depth’ but there are so many problems with it. Continuity-wise it makes so sense with how pre-crisis and post- worked, particularly for Jason, and additionally Morrison is realllllly wishy-washy with his ‘EVERYTHING IS CANON’ stuff that it rings false, plus in Pre-Crisis he was like...blonde I don’t understand. The implications of Jason being forced to dye his hair are absolutely disgusting for Bruce and go back into that fundamental problem I have with how Morrison sees Bruce. Jason, Post-resurrection suffers a lot of DC writers not knowing what to do and unloading a lot of DC’s baggage and some unconscious, problematic tropes onto him. Read his Post-Crisis origin (Batman 408 on, there’s the origin and some issues after set up by his original Post-Crisis writer Max Collins) and maybe all his Post-Crisis, pre-Death stuff since there’s honestly not a lot and it’s fairly obvious when Starlin starts pushing for his death. For post-resurrection, Under the Red Hood, Lost Days (it goes off the rails at the end, so I only half rec it honestly), Outsiders 44 and 45, Countdown (but only if you’re skipping the plot and just reading the Jason (&Donna &Kyle) bits, it’s one of the most even-handed treatments he actually gets in Post-Crisis but the book is otherwise terrible). Then just go straight to RHatO Rebirth. 

Tim: Ignore new 52 and Rebirth entirely. Red Robin is a book a lot of Tim fans really like but I personally think it’s bad in general and also don’t like what the writer does with Tim, but ymmv. Tim’s origin is also pretty weak and his initial mini and series aren’t that great at establishing him as a proper character outside ‘this kid is Robin pls like him we want to get away from the controversy of the last one’ so it’s hard to connect with him there without nostalgia glasses. By Knightfall (1994ish) on, that’s where he’s more of a character himself, and his stuff from about then through to the early 2000s is the best (before Geoff Johns got him in Teen Titans and Didio started doing Things, which basically led us to today to be honest). Personally, I think Tim functions best in a team, there are aspects of what his writers do in his solo where they just...missed the implications and it kind of grates on me. His stand out book imo is Young Justice (the og comic not the cartoon which only shares the name and nothing else tbh). 

Steph: Another who actually got treated decently well during the Morrison-era, as opposed to the crap she was dealt earlier during her time as Robin and War Games. Steph’s Batgirl run is something I definitely recommend, and her stuff with Dick and Damian in Morrison’s era is contemporary with that. Her origin is actually really good and compelling, so I’d dig into that (TEC 647, i think, is her first appearance). She kind of just revolves around Tim during his run and their relationship is kind of...there are implications there that are a bit cringe. Her stuff with Cass on the other hand is really enjoyable so I’d recommend those. Her brief Robin run is decent if melancholy considering what we know happens, and I wouldn’t touch War Games with a ten foot pole. 

Cass: Shafted from the mid-2000s on, tbh. She got a bit blessed with a solid creative team to start her off in her Batgirl run, it attempts some pretty deep and interesting explorations of her character that while not perfectly executed are still really good comics. I’d just read her No Man’s Land stuff, follow her book and stuff with Steph and pretty much just ditch out when One Year Later hits. Her Black Bat outfit is cool and there is some retroactive backpedalling by DC to justify shafting her but it’s all Morrison era anyway so you might be familiar already. 

Damian: Morrison created him and he took a lot of liberties with that backstory which unfortunately have had a lasting impact for Talia, which is frustrating. As Damian’s creator, what you see is what you get. Morrison didn’t want him to be likeable and he also didn’t really want him to be permanent (ties in again to how Morrison sees Bruce and family tbh), other writers gave Damian development later, but despite being around for over a decade now, there is still a lot of push and pull between writers about his characterization and development. It’s unfortunate but there’s a noticeable lack of consistency with Damian and his development that is frustrating to read. Probably read Tomasi’s stuff if you want Damian’s softened, developed arc and avoid other stuff. I’m not the best for Damian because most of his stuff is during the new 52 which I wasn’t around for and am picking through only occasionally. 

Hope this helps.