#tw: fandom discourse

[correlance]

[cosmicjoke]

I guess I should make my own post on this, since it's been brought to my attention, again. All I do is post cat pictures and videos all day, and this clown continues to have a meltdown over me saying eruri isn't canon, lol.

@tsuki-no-ura is accusing me of plagiarizing her posts, lol, which, okay. And her "proof" of this is picking out single sentences from long analyses posts I've written regarding Levi's vow to kill the Beast Titan which use similar words to some of her own posts, like "personal feelings" and "vow", and this, apparently, is concrete evidence that I've based all of my own thoughts and feelings regarding this aspect of Levi's character and story on her analyses. I can't say I'm surprised, though, given tsuki's entire MO is taking quotes and words out of context and presenting them in a vacuum to push a specific narrative and agenda. She does it with Isayama and his interviews, and even the canon material itself, so why not do the same with me and anyone else who disagrees with her?

Like the idea that Levi's choice to let Erwin die and give Armin the serum was rooted in personal feelings is an original idea that belongs only to tsuki and which has no other originating source, lol. As if, while discussing the same material, there isn't going to be some overlap in the ideas and themes discussed. And for what reason is she picking out that specific wording from my posts? Is she trying to prove that I used to agree with her and changed my mind or something? That I'm being hypocritical by acknowledging that Levi's choice was based on personal feeling while also saying that Levi didn't actively decide to choose Erwin over humanity? Like both things can't be true at the same time? As I've stated over and over, Levi made the choice he believed was morally right, both for Erwin's personal well-being and for humanity, and yes, that was a choice based on his personal feelings, because as Levi himself acknowledges, that's all anyone can ever do, is make the choice they feel is best. I've made entire posts talking about how all of Levi's choices are rooted in personal feeling. That's what his entire philosophy of no regrets is about. About making the choice you feel, in your heart, is right, whether you know it to be true or not. I've also written countless posts about one of the reasons Levi's so admired Erwin was because he believed Erwin was capable of completely removing himself and his personal feelings from the choices he made, and Levi admired that in Erwin because Levi himself has always struggled with doing the same. He thought it made Erwin a superior man to himself, that he could make decisions without letting emotion interfere. I've also made posts discussing how, in actuality, we see demonstrated through Levi this theme in AoT of how it's actually those who make choices based on compassion and emotion that can be seen as superior, because it's those who cast aside their humanity for the so-called "greater good" who actually end up destroying everything. That's a clear theme presented in AoT, and nowhere is it more clearly demonstrated than through Levi and Erwin, with Levi eventually being revealed as the superior and stronger man, not in spite of his compassion, but because of it.

But you know, tsuki ignores all of this, and all of this context, and instead highlights two or three, partial sentences from these 1500, 2000, 3000 word meta posts of mine as "proof" that I'm plagiarizing her. Keep it up tuski, you only continue to prove to all and sundry what a disingenuous, manipulative, lying clown you are, by exposing exactly how you operate. By taking single sentences, presenting them completely out of context, and using that as your evidence for whatever hair-brained theory you're presenting this time.

The stupidity is never-ending from this one, and her moronic followers are just the same. Have fun patting each other on the back for what I'm sure you've convinced yourself is a win, but only makes more obvious what a bunch of delusional, crybaby, professional victims you all are.

By the way, tsuki, everyone knows the real reason you have an issue with me is because of this post I made, what was it, more than two years ago now: https://www.tumblr.com/cosmicjoke/711701886703747072/the-problem-with-levi-and-shipping?source=share

You came onto my post to argue with me, acting as though my post was some sort of personal attack on you (shocking, given your raging victim complex, I know), when all it was was a general statement about certain trends I was seeing from the shipping communities overall, and I replied in a very cordial manner to your response, saying we mostly agreed, to which you never bothered responding, and ever since then, you've been vague posting about me on your blog, targeting every single thing I say about Levi, or Erwin, or any other aspect or character of AoT, having to contradict it, to the point of you willingly positing the most ridiculous and illogical conclusions, all in some pathological attempt to discredit me and my opinions. You're just that threatened by me, I guess, that you have to set yourself in opposition to every single opinion I have about AoT and its characters, all because I once said eruri isn't canon and anyone who analyzes AoT through a shipping lens, when nothing that happens in the story is on any level informed by fandom ships, is necessarily going to come away with a skewed understanding of the events of the story. You can't accept your own biases, and you can't accept anyone thinking differently from you, and so instead of owning up to your own failings as a person, you accuse everyone else of the most ridiculous shit imaginable, like plagiarism and Nazism, lol.

You're truly pathetic.

[bvcktommy]

what do you mean 911 just gave us arguably one of the most well written, well directed, and well acted episodes of, at the very least, the last few seasons, if not the entire damn show, and all a certain group of people can talk about is how it's not worth anything because eddie diaz wasn't in it

[cheezewhis]

"Seperate the art from the artist!!" Or..... Acknowledge that the creator is terrible and be willing to carefully examine the art? Because artists tend to put a lot of themselves into their work a d ignoring that could potentially ignore harmful messages, subtext, worldviews, etc.

It was until JK Rowling outed herself as a terf that I became consciously aware of how she described evil female characters as looking "manish" or more masculine. But once I knew her real views, I looked back at her work and realized that she was sending a message about what she deems "correct" for women to be like. I never would've seen that if I'd just said "seperate her from the art!" and refused any critical thinking.

It's still possible to love the works of a terrible person. I never loved Harry Potter, but I still love the X-Men movies (most of which were directed by a pedophile) and it seems most people on here loved Deadpool and Wolverine (directed by a zionist). Every Buffy fan I hear from is more than willing to discuss the problems with Joss Whedon and how he left his marks on the show for good and bad.

It's perfectly possible to love work make by a bad person, but ignoring that person and pretending their work has nothing to do with their worldviews is ignorant and frankly, lazy. I know people are fighting about that "Good Omes belongs to us" post and yeah I get it. Because Good Omens doesn't belong to you. But the fandom does. Make that a safe space and to do that start by showing you care about victims more than your media. Start by not making excuses for liking something and instead acknowledge the creator's atrocious actions. Start by trying to figure out what parts of the content you want to be represented by when you say you're a fan. Just don't make excuses.

[sh00kspeared]

Genuine question for the DAI fandom — is there a decent community surrounding mlm solavellan? I just got into DAI and am using the equal opportunity mod to romance solas, but some of the things I’ve seen people online just made my heart sink— that they’re ‘so, so glad solas is straight’, the way that people pelt mlm solavellan shippers with downvotes and dislikes, the way I saw someone say that hetero people might feel ridiculed by Solas being bisexual. I’d love to find my people, and I’m just wondering if things are any different here on tumblr or if the fandom is in general agreement that bi solas = bad.

[stemms]

I could never understand people who treat DSMP like a dead fandom or feel ashamed of still adoring this piece of media in 2024. After all, isn’t the whole point of enjoying any story to keep it in your heart for years instead of forgetting about it the moment it loses its popularity? How did classical literature or old movies/series survive and remain appreciated until today, for example? The DSMP fandom is alive because there still are people who deeply care about the characters, and it will keep on living until there’s at least one person passionate about it.

It is true that the DSMP fandom was bigger in 2020-2022, but it’s also important to remember the quality of the fanbase at the time. I remember seeing so much more harassment, especially directed towards people interested in portraying c!Prime’s canonically abusive dynamic without even exploring the aspect of /p physical affection; many people were forced to deactivate their accounts because of the insane amount of toxic reactions. There were also A Lot of people incapable of understanding that CC’s characters weren’t supposed to represent their real life personalities, which either led to certain CC’s harassment for being “horrible people” or to misinterpretation of certain characters (e.g. c!Dream, c!George, c!Sapnap, c!Quackity, or c!Sam), a huge amount of poor lore comprehension, leading to Lots of victim-blaming and abuse apologism.

Now that DSMP is over and less popular, a significant amount of people responsible for the fandom’s poor reputation is gone, and people who genuinely understand the characters and simply want to discuss and/or create content for their hyperfixation in peace, stayed. Of course, this fandom isn’t perfect or entirely free of Weird™ people, but there’s certainly less toxicity, and it’s all that matters.

The next time you feel ashamed of still enjoying DSMP, try to remind yourself of the wonderful memories, excitement, creativity boost, and friends it brought you, and focus on the fact that this story will remain alive for as long as you let it.

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

literally just saw another “call out” post in my fandom, “this person ships these characters together, they support fucked up things in fiction. moots, unfollow them, they’re disgusting for liking these fictional things 🤢” can we please just. not do this? especially with all that’s going on in the world recently, can we please not try to take away people’s source of comfort? who cares what fictional things a person enjoys? they’re ✨fiction✨. they’re ✨not real✨. you don’t know what battle a person is going through outside of social media. you don’t know if fandom is literally the last source of happiness they have left. you don’t know if fandom is the only thing keeping them alive right now.

ask yourself, is it really worth it? you claim to be “morally superior” by “exposing” people who find comfort in fictional things you deem morally unacceptable. but is it really worth it if your words drove a person into harming themself?

are you really being morally superior by being the reason someone hurts themself?

these characters are fiction. but the person you’re harassing in the name of being morally superior is a real person with real feelings.

if you find something that you don’t like, instead of going out of your way to harass someone, scroll past it, ignore it, mute it, block it. and focus on the things you do enjoy.

with everything that’s going on in the world right now, now is the time we need to keep fandoms safe. they’re the last source of happiness some people have left.

[correlance]

[cosmicjoke]

following your account has exposed me to the most bullshit takes on aot i've ever seen. I didn't even know they existed. not your takes, but because you go mad over the bullshit takes and counter them. i'm just flabbergasted by the things i've seen that you had to disprove to some people, when the idea is already so far fetched from what seems to be already direct enough in the anime and manga.

Believe me, I didn't know these takes existed either until I started regularly interacting with the fandom. I generally stay off of twitter, which is where I assume most of these takes originate, but I've just gotten exposed to them, either through mutuals of mine bringing them to my attention, or people sending me anon hate. I assume these anons have largely migrated from twitter to tumblr, unfortunately. But yes, it really is shocking, isn't it, just how insane and baseless these takes are? AoT is a complex story and the characters are complex, but it really shouldn't be that difficult to come away from it with an at least somewhat logical and coherent understanding of what the story is about and who these characters are. And yet, over and over, you see the most outlandish, brain-dead and idiotic takes imaginable, ones that have no basis in reality and for which there's no logical road map to follow for how these people came to such unhinged and frankly repulsive conclusions. It's depressing, honestly. It doesn't speak well to the future of media literacy. I'm sorry you've gotten exposed to so much dumb shit on my blog. Truly, all I've ever wanted was to just talk about the things I like and delve into what I think makes them great, but the AoT fandom in particular seems to be filled with toxic assholes who are insistent on dragging the entire community down with their bullshit. I feel the need to counter them because these takes floating around out there are harmful to AoT as a work of art, and that's just not fair to a piece of art that's so extraordinary. So I try my best. But I understand if you don't want to be exposed to this crap and would rather unfollow me. I try to keep things positive, but it's hard when there's so many shitty takes out there, and especially when the people with those shitty takes insist on attacking you over and over.

[song-of-baldy-ron]

As someone who’s dealt with addiction issues I’m begging the fandom to give Laudna an ounce of agency in this discourse

Yes various members of BH have either ignored or enabled her leaning into Delilah more but she has also started hiding the worst of these moments from the group/ lying by omission about how bad it’s getting and that’s absolutely on her

I fully understand where she’s coming from and the shame she’s feeling (I’ve even been there myself)

but she won’t heal until she takes ownership of that and begins to ask for help/ being held accountable by the group

[penvisions]

I’m not new to this kind of stuff, but it does hurt still. Very much.

tw for racism and racial slurs under the cut

This was a comment left on the series I was so excited to write and share with y’all. I am excited to write and share. But this comment is not only extremely hateful, it’s also extremely unsettling with how casually they hurled a loaded insult at me.

“Spic” is a very serious thing to call someone. It’s a racial slur that I’ve heard before, had aimed at me before, and it’s not a good feeling.

I preface a lot of fics with detailed tags and warnings. From angst to the reader insert I’d written in more of an OC and formatted like an x reader. I’ve explained a few times while I use English a lot in my daily life, it is not my first language. Pronunciation and some nuances are lost on me but is more noticeable in my academic writing for university.

This is a hobby. This is something I indulge in because it makes me happy and telling stories is the most genuine human thing we do.

To be targeted like this and in the barrage of hateful anons lately really takes the fun out of it. And I hate that that’s my takeaway in an otherwise positive little corner I’ve found here.

I don’t really have anything else to say other than this type of behavior is not okay. It’s demeaning, it’s steeped in ignorance and malice. It makes me feel way too many things and my voice isn’t quite working on the matter beyond this.

I try to keep it positive here, to interact with intention and kindness. With good words and compliments but I feel like something needed to be said about this.

Please block this user and please be kind to one another.

[sh00kspeared]

“Johnny loves female V way more than he loves male V”

“Johnny isn’t bi; he had flings with men but truly can only fall in love with women”

“Johnny and V’s dynamic is less interesting with two men”

“Johnny and V are based off of [X classic literature dynamic], and that’s a story about a man and a woman. It could never work with two men.”

“Johnny is the poster child for a tough male archetype; it wouldn’t make sense for him to have a boyfriend.”

I don’t think people who say these things realize what they’re really doing (all of the comments above are things that I have seen more than one person say, by the way, so this isn’t a passive aggressive callout post for a one or two select people or anything).

As someone with a beloved male V x Johnny ship that I’ve spent hours pouring my heart and soul into— writing lore, doing VP, making art— imagine, guys, how it feels for me to read these comments. For others with the same ship dynamic as me to read these comments. Imagine how it would feel if I went to YOUR fem V X Johnny ship and went ‘ackchully, that could never be canon! Johnny loves men more!” Not good, right?

There are times in the past where people have written literal ESSAYS in comments sections about why my ship is bad. And I’m not gonna sugarcoat it: if you say these things to people who are just trying to share art and headcanons, I’m sorry, but you’ve got some issues to work out with yourself. If you have the time to be so worked up about Johnny holding hands with someone who has a dick that you write a long paragraph about how much better fem V is, then I’m not the problem.

And, by the way, I don’t think I’ve mentioned it till this point, but Johnny is canonically bisexual; I’m not just headcanoning here. He’s made comments about wanting to fuck men, more than once have certain devs + the official Cyberpunk Twitter account liked and reposted images of him with male V, his character was based off of David Bowie (a bisexual person), and the official game guide says that Johnny slept with Kerry and Henry. I am not criticizing people who don’t know this information, think Johnny is straight, and are politely concerned about people disrespecting his sexuality— I’ve met plenty of people who don’t know Johnny’s sexuality and nicely go, “oh, I didn’t know that!” when I tell them. No, I’m referring to the people who know this information and choose to ignore it because they don’t like the idea of Johnny being bisexual, or to the people who don’t know Johnny’s sexuality and instantly lash out at male V x Johnny ships because they assume he’s straight.

It also does a disservice to bi people in general to make so many assumptions about Johnny’s sexuality. I’ve seen people assume that Johnny is too ‘manly’ or doesn’t have enough gay mannerisms to be into men, which is very much stereotyping. It also assumes that him preferring women but still liking men means he’s still straight because he talked about sleeping with women more than sleeping with men (ever heard of the Kinsey scale)? Him having two canon girlfriends does not mean he couldn’t have had a boyfriend in the past or that he wouldn’t fall in love with a man (remember him saying he wished he’d fucked Kerry?).

If you’re uncomfortable with the idea of your female V being with a man who finds men attractive, then I’d recommend finding a different character to ship your V with.

Now, to conclude, I’m not denying that Johnny is likely female leaning, and I’m not saying you can’t think your specific female character is the most compatible match for Johnny. I am simply asking that the ship that I and many others have poured hours of our lives into be respected and treated with dignity, and that Johnny’s sexuality be treated with dignity.

[xx-slug-xx]

The day that antis learn that “noncon” is absolutely just slang for “rape/sa in fiction” is the day my joints stop hurting tbh

Key phrase is the “in fiction”. Nobody is out here calling real life sexual abuse “noncon”. The very idea that there are people out there who are is just a made up thing antis made up. The only context we’re I’ve seen sex abuse referred to as “noncon” is on places like TikTok where the mere mention of the word “rape” gets your content taken down. Nobody in their right mind would call it what it’s not, but censorship is a bitch and it prevents us from using the proper terms for a very serious subject. When censorship isn’t an issue though, people call it what it is. Sexual abuse and rape.

Noncon is used specifically for fiction though. It’s slang for sex abuse and rape in fiction. Nobody is trying to make it sound like it’s not exactly that. It’s just another word for it and it’s used explicitly in fictional works because it’s not as serious as if it were to happen to a real person. Real abuse and fiction are not equals in any way, and using the term “noncon” to denote that separation is good actually. Noncon fanfics aren’t real, they should not be treated with the same seriousness as sex abuse.

[shadow-redferne]

Proship vs Anti Discourse is Why We Can't Have Nice Things

(PT: Proship vs Anti Discourse is Why We Can't Have Nice Things) (Trigger warning: This post discusses multiple sensitive topics, including abuse, bullying, bigotry and suicide. Reader discretion *heavily* advised)

I've finally gotten around to this post and I'll admit I can already smell the hostility. Just some disclaimers: This post isn't me commenting on the morality of certain media or ships, nor is it me commenting on whether or not fiction affects reality. This is only to talk about the damage this kind of discourse has done to fandom. I am going to warn you: This is *not* a post full of kindness. I am not going to be nice. This post is going to be a bit mean. No. Very mean. Sorry about that. So, TL;DR: Both sides have a harassment problem, and neither side wants to address the issues their communities have, leading to fandom becoming an unsafe environment. So uh, I don't think I need to write a witty introduction here. The current state of fandom is rancid. Harassment has become a giant fucking problem lately. So what's the problem? The problem lies in one thing: 'Proship' vs 'Antiship' discourse.

"Shadow, what the fuck do those words mean?" Proship used to mean that you supported all ships, all forms of fiction, and that you were against harassing anyone who was involved in fandom, as well as against censorship. 'Anti', or 'antiship', meant that you were against some forms of fiction and shipping, mainly ones involving minors or incest. Now you might've noticed that I used the phrase "used to" and the word "meant". That's because both terms kinda got new definitions and became buzzwords, with proship turning into a synonym for 'problematic shipper' (the term 'darkship' eventually came around to distinguish the two apart from my understanding, but uh...as you can see it hasn't helped much!). On top of that, people use the word 'proship' as a verb or type of content rather than an actual stance (ie. 'proshipping', 'proship content', 'proship artstyle', you get the idea). However that's not the main point here. Let's cut to the chase now; both sides fucking hate each other; we'll make that clear, with both sides throwing vile accusations towards one another. However, the more I looked into the swamp, the more distrust I gained for both sides. Something was bothering me, but what? I tried to do a survey; two of them in fact, to see which side was more hostile. Unfortunately, neither survey gave me a lot of useful results, considering I got very little responses from the anti side (So uh, thanks for nothing on that end guys. /nm). The written responses did give one common theme: Fandom has a problem. A problem with harassment, bullying, creeps and bigotry. The antis are particularly horrible when it comes to this. I'm going to start this off by saying that I actually used to consider myself an 'anti' due to my discomfort with noncon and incest. And unfortunately, I was pretty fucking hostile to others (although I never sent death threats, fuck anyone who does that shit). I eventually stopped associating with the 'anti' side when I saw how rampant the ableism was- more on that later. 'Antis' have caused severe harm to fandom, and I don't really understand how anyone can deny that. However, I am pretty fucking tired of everyone pretending that the 'proship' side is the good side. I know the 'proship' side isn't going to like hearing this, but it needs to be said: You guys are *just* as guilty as 'antis' when it comes to being toxic. And I'm not saying that because of the pro-incest stuff or the minor/adult pairings. I'm saying that many 'proshippers' are way too comfortable with being creepy towards others, and the community that claims to be 'anti-harassment'... isn't all that anti-harassment! Here are just some of the written responses I got from the survey:

Here's one alibi from an anonymous user who submitted to the @selfship-confession-box account (pls let me know if you dont want to be tagged)

Another anon that was submitted to the @proship-anti-discussion account

Lastly, here's some of the replies and reblogs to a post talking about an 'ex-proshipper' that left the community due to negative experiences (the OP of said post and the 'ex proshipper' in question did eventually apologize to each other, so I'll cut both of them some slack. I'm only showing the responses because holy fuck are they rancid).

So yeah. So much for the 'proship' community being "anti-harassment" and inclusive to SA and grooming survivors. Now, to the 'anti' side. I will say, the 'proshippers' got one thing right, and that's the fact that 'antis' very much fucking suck. And remember when I said that 'proshippers' were hypocrites? Well, 'antis' are also that. They talk so much about protecting "sa survivors" and how "proshippers are bigoted". But what do the written responses say about this?

and let's not forget *this*

I also want to bring up this comment about the term 'proship artstyle' that I thought was worth mentioning:

In other words... 'antis' aren't as great to hang around either! Now, there's one particular issue I really want to zero in on, and that's the rampant ableism from both sides. As one of the above written responses say, there is a huge problem of 'antis' and 'proshippers' misusing words like 'psychotic' and 'delusional'. The r-slur is also pretty rampant, I've noticed.

Still don't believe me? Okay. Here's a more recent example from an anonymous 'anti' I came across (ironically enough this came up when I searched "proship ableism". Also. fatphobia too? pick a struggle anon)

And that's not even getting into the amount of 'antis' who weaponize the saying "seek help" or "go to therapy". Now, let's go back to the terms supposed original meanings, particuarly the meaning for 'proshipper'. That term was supposed to mean that you were against censorship and harassing people for fiction and ships, and that you didn't judge people for liking certain ships. Meanwhile, 'antis' were supposedly about wanting to get rid of problematic media that could be harmful to minors and SA survivors. But it's time to be honest: Both sides have lost the plot. How am I supposed to believe either side is "anti-harassment" when neither side knows how to respect boundaries? How am I supposed to believe either side cares about SA survivors when you have both sides constantly speaking over said survivors and also harassing them? How am I supposed to believe either side cares about minors when there's been individuals on both sides, yes, including the so called "antis" that "care so much about protecting children uwu", that were outed as groomers? How am I supposed to believe either side is the good side when you have things like this happening:

The last thing I take issue with? The terms "proship" and "anti" as a whole, as well as every single similar term that's come out of this mess. While I do genuinely believe these terms were probably helpful in the past, it's clear that they're not doing any good whatsoever. Both terms have had their original meanings muddied and twisted to the point where they basically have no meaning at all, and the terms existing have created a massive "us vs them" mentality within fandom. There's also the issue of both sides forcing labels on others. I've seen posts that are all "if you believe x, congrats you're a proshipper!" or "if you believe y, you're an anti!". As well as anyone identifying as 'neutralship' (a label I also used to identify with before I stopped associating with these labels entirely) being called a "closet proshipper" or an "anti in disguise". Personally? If you have to force people to pick a side in order for you to trust them, I don't see why I should trust you. If you have to rely on labels like "proship", "anti", "anti-anti", "anti-harassment", "anti-censorship" to come across as a safe person or a good person, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to see you as a good person. You might be wondering why I included the "anti-harassment" and "anti-censorship" labels in that. Well, I'm going to be honest, and you are welcome to disagree with me on this, but I feel like these terms are so fucking unnecessary. Being "anti-harassment" and "anti-censorship" is the BARE FUCKING MINIMUM, a bare minimum that neither side can truly follow. Also, calling yourself "anti-harassment" doesn't automatically make me believe that. Especially when it's been proven time and time again that 'proshippers', the side believed to be 'anti-harassment', isn't all that 'anti-harassment' at all! Now I know what you're thinking at this point; you're thinking that I condone harassment because I'm going after both sides. You're thinking that I don't give a damn about the death threats that 'antis' have sent. No. No. No. That is not what I'm saying. And honestly, if *that's* the message you're getting, I don't know what to tell you.

So no, I'm not saying harassment is good or okay (and if that's the message you got from reading the above... I genuinely do not know what to tell you). I'm saying that you don't deserve a medal or a cookie for not sending death threats or being against people who send death threats, when it's literally the BARE MINIMUM. The bar is in fucking hell at this point. And as it's been shown, neither "proshippers" nor "antis" are truly anti-harassment. Me not liking 'proshippers' doesn't automatically mean I'm okay with sending them death threats, and me not liking 'antis' doesn't make me okay with abuse. And it sure as fucking hell doesn't mean that I don't care either. Because guess what? I do fucking care. It's why I'm fucking making this post in the first place. I shouldn't have to identify as "proship" or "anti" or any other labels to tell you that I care. Me refusing to use a label doesn't mean I'm apathetic to all the harm that's happened. And I sure as hell am not condoning harassment by refusing to hold hands with individuals who can't even bother to respect each other's boundaries. And honestly? If you interpret "I don't support proshippers *or* antis because they both made fandom toxic and unsafe" as "I condone sending death threats and rape threats", that's kind of on you. Here's a simple message I have for anyone who calls themselves "proship" or "antiship", and I am going to be especially mean here: Stop pretending to brand yourselves as the good guys when all you've done is break boundaries, talk over abuse survivors and marginalized groups. Stop being hypocrites, and actually address the issues within your goddamn communities. And stop downplaying said issues by saying "BUT THIS SIDE IS WORSE!" or "BUT THEY DO IT TOO!". Also, stop forcing people to use your dumb labels. Literally all of this could be fucking solved with using the block buttons or report buttons. There is no reason for this stupid fucking infighting. You don't have to like each other, fuck no, but quit dragging those who aren't involved into your messes and ruining fandom for everyone.

To "antis": Quit pretending to care about SA survivors and minors when you're the ones sending them death threats (And maybe address the fucking groomers within your community too, by the fucking way). To "proshippers": Stop being a dick to people who have had negative experiences with your community, stop ignoring the bigotry and stop letting in predators within your community. Now lastly, I know I said I wasn't going to comment on stances, but I do want to say this because it's also very much fucking bothering me. I hate how this discourse just boils down to either "Fiction DOESN'T affect reality at all, it's 100% okay to support ANY kind of media/ship/pairing no matter how problematic it is, and if you disagree with that you're a fascist!" or "Actually supporting ANY kind of media that's problematic and/or depicts so and so is BAD and if you support that you're a horrible human being! And if you disagree with me you're just as bad!" Have you guys perhaps, I don't know: Considered a fucking middle ground? Have you maybe considered nuanced discussions? How about that? Okay, I'm done being mean. In fact, I actually don't have much else to say so here's a video that talks about it a little more nicer than I do

*Sigh* I'm going to regret posting this, aren't I?

[qtubbo]

There’s genuinely been such much ableism directed at Tubbo these past few days it’s been hard to deal with, just completely open ableist remarks with /rp at then end or I love ccTubbo but… Constant remarks of him not following social ques, being too loud, having issues with tone, mocking him for having trouble reading the signs, saying that he’s neglecting Sunny because he’s not emotionally aware, ect. It sucks, I don’t like having to see so much of the fandom be openly ableist, why can’t people just be normal able disabled people of any kind. Also saying Tubbo shouldn’t rant about his interests because it ruins your immersion is just horrible and you all know it.

[godofautism]

Hello Tumblr user

In front of you are two characters

One of them is a morally complex character who, due to an unfortunate accident caused by the other character, is now disabled

The other is a character that points out culture in our day to day life that is not spoken about and believes he is not a terrible person

Your challenge is to not ship them, treat disability like a punishment, and not infantalize the first character.