The longest list of anti-endo sources I've ever seen
While trying to find something else using Tumblr's infamous search engine, I came across this absolute gem:
NINE SOURCES!!! That's a record!! This is incredible!
@radpocalypse, listen. I am about to tear these to shreds, but before I do, I want you to know that you have my respect for not only compiling the longest list of sources I have ever seen an anti-endo provide, and not only doing so seemingly not directly prompted, but typing out every single link by hand, on mobile, without making a single mistake. Incredible work.
And also, to be completely honest, if I had nine sources supporting a belief, I almost certainly wouldn't look into them this closely. But, hey, that's what strangers on the internet with opposing views are for.
One more thing before the debunk: Endogenic systems do not claim to have DID etc. without trauma. They just don't. Whether it could be possible is often debated as an edge case, usually just to win an argument against someone of the opposing side, but really, it's irrelevant for 99% of the community. A good chunk are questioning OSDD based on later trauma, but as far as I am aware, no one on this website is claiming a completely endogenic plural disorder.
However, I don't want to dismiss entire pages based on this alone without further commentary, and it's a fun intellectual exercise regardless. So, whenever I use green text, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate under the premise of "If I was claiming to have DID without trauma (which neither I nor anyone else afaik is), would this source actually debunk that claim?" My syster will also occasionally pop in with purple, since she was cocon while I was writing this.
My dad just walked into my room and literally said "hey how it's going". You know, like. Like that one post. Amazing.
Anyway, civility established. Now come along with me on this long long journey of ten minutes of reading. Maybe put some music on in the background, if that will help you get through it. I had Near's Theme on while writing.
Here we go.
Link 1: McLean Hospital
Ok, main thing that caught my eye was
According to a 2010 Psychiatric Times article, only 5% of people with DID exhibit obvious switching between identity “states.”
Very interesting! Even with all of the "idk who's fronting" memes, 5% is really not that high. Though maybe online spaces like these help train the ability to identify it? The reference trail leads back to a book by Kluft but I don't really feel like going through dozens of pages for this. Definitely making a note of this though; I wonder if there have been any follow-up studies on this.
Not much to say here other than that. No mention of plurality outside DID.
DID is associated with long-term exposure to trauma, often chronic traumatic experiences during early childhood.
Dissociation—or disconnection from one’s sense of self or environment—can be a response to trauma.
Dissociative identity disorder—a type of dissociative disorder—most often develops during early childhood in kids who are experiencing long-term trauma. This typically involves emotional, physical, and/or sexual abuse; neglect; and highly unpredictable interactions with caregivers.
Why "associated", not "is caused by"? Why "can", not "is"? Why "most often", etc.?
Why such weak language?
Not that it couldn't be weaker.
I vaguely remember McLean getting into some hot water regarding a video they posted about DID, but didn't find anything concrete. Half-remembered anecdote aside, the author seems well-qualified.
C-tier debunk of this position. It's not nothing but it could be a lot better.
Link 2: Psych Central
It occurs in women 9 times more often than in men.
Very interesting statistic, but no citation provided.
Alters can show striking differences. For instance, one alter may speak with a different accent or have a softer way of speaking. They might have different opinions or a different gender identity, and even physical differences — like left- or right-handedness, or the need for a glasses prescription.
That's quite a stark difference here compared to the McLean article. What happened to "alters aren't that noticeable"?
But whatever, these are just interesting tidbits. None of this has anything to do with endogenic plurality. Nothing like "this is the only way to be multiple", no comment whatsoever.
DID is usually associated with adverse experiences in someone’s past and traumatic memories.
Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is a mental health condition with strong links to trauma, especially trauma in childhood.
Bruh. This again?
In fact, the American Psychiatric Association reports that 90% of people with DID have a history of childhood abuse and neglect, based on research from the United States, Canada, and Europe.
Bruh. Seriously? 90%? You know what that leaves, right?
According to your own source, 10% of DID systems are endogenic.
But let's break this down. There's a big difference between the system being endogenic, and the DID being endogenic. This statistic is specifically referring to childhood trauma.
The wording's plenty vague though. This can absolutely be read as completely endogenic DID.
One review article from 2017 about the causes of DID noted that there was relatively little research on the condition to date.
The authors said researchers hadn’t yet investigated potential genetic and epigenetic factors. With epigenetic factors, the experiences and behaviors of your parents and ancestors can influence the function of the genes they pass down to you.
The authors of the review said scientists needed to do more research to investigate whether a person with DID might carry genes that can influence if they develop the condition or not.
This is particularly promising because studies have already shown that genes can influence dissociative disorders in general.
So you're telling me DID might be able to be passed down one or two generations? Wow. Again, this still has nothing to do with endogenic plurality, but I'm really glad I decided to play with this second angle, because it's so much more fun. We're certainly not at intentional self-inflicted DID here, but we are at this point a long way from certainly needing childhood trauma in all cases.
And also the reviewer is a military psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD. So uh. Not bringing our best here.
Link 3: Mayo Clinic
Gotta love an article that's nice and short. This is just a brief summary of a bunch of dissociative disorders. Again, nothing about endogenic plurality.
Starting to run out of things to say about this. This whole post could probably be a fifth the length if I didn't feel like playing on hard mode.
Formerly known as multiple personality disorder, this disorder involves "switching" to other identities. You may feel as if you have two or more people talking or living inside your head. You may feel like you're possessed by other identities.
Each identity may have a unique name, personal history and features. These identities sometimes include differences in voice, gender, mannerisms and even such physical qualities as the need for eyeglasses.
Hey, that reminds me of someone.
There also are differences in how familiar each identity is with the others. Dissociative identity disorder usually also includes bouts of amnesia and often includes times of confused wandering.
Again, McLean looking really odd with its declaration of DID's covertness against great detail like this. However, its author is so far the best qualified. This one just says "Mayo Clinic Staff". Can't even know which of them worked on this. Some of them are psychs, but if any of them specialize in dissociative disorders, it doesn't say so.
Dissociative disorders usually arise as a reaction to shocking, distressing or painful events and help push away difficult memories.
I won't bother quoting even more wishy-washy language because this post is already at an ungodly length (about 1300 words so far) and we're barely a third done. But yeah, suffice to say, no nail-in-the-coffin 100% link to trauma.
Link 4: Rethink
We are a trusted information creator and accredited by the Patient Information Forum (PIF).
Their bold, for once. That's an alarm-ringing corporate phrase if I've ever seen one. Also, first thing on the PIF's website is "balancing the risks and benefits of AI in the production of health information". So this article might've been written by GPT. Awesome. And yeah, a lot of this whole website looks to me like a bunch of interconnected pages with stupidly long articles written by stitching together LLM generations. Does pass GPT0's test though.
This one is so long. I'll take the ten minutes to read through every word, which I don't think @radpocalypse did, just to make sure there's nothing here, but one thing that does catch my eye scrolling down to near the bottom is that they misspelled their first citation.
A quick look at this Carolyn Spring shows a lot being sold and credentials nowhere in sight. Awesome.
So already I don't need to read this. The information here is not at a high level of trustworthiness. It's maybe better than nothing, but seriously, one can and should do better. But I'll read it anyway, just for bonus points. Thanks to AccelaReader for making this bearable.
Many people will experience dissociation at some point in their lives. Lots of different things can cause you to dissociate. For example, you might dissociate when you are very stressed, or after something traumatic has happened to you.
Some of the symptoms of dissociation include the following:
You may have clear multiple identities.
It‘s important to remember that you could have the symptoms of dissociation without a dissociative disorder.
So according to this, multiple identities can be caused by intense but non-traumatic stress, and might not necessarily be a disorder. So, while I admit this is a little bit of a stretch, we're four links in and this is the first mention of plurality in general, so I'll take it. One point for endogenic plurality. (And again, none of this really matters anyway because this is the worst source so far.)
Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is sometimes called ‘Multiple Personality Disorder.
If you have DID you might seem to have 2 or more different identities, called ‘alternate identities.
Two missing closing quotes. Really not a good sign.
They suggest that DID is caused by experiencing severe trauma over a long time in childhood.
Aha! Finally, something concrete against endogenic DID! Too bad it's buried in the worst source yet. If we believed we had DID, we would absolutely not reconsider that based on a sketchy webpage with suboptimal syntax and no credentials.
Ugh, finally done with that one. What a slog.
Link 5: DID Research
Aha! The infamous psych student's blog! That's what Sophie said, anyway. Not taking her word for it though. Let's see what we can find here, independently.
Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is the result of repeated or long-term childhood trauma
Why wasn't this first? First sentence, so crystal clear. No two ways about this, transDID destroyed right out of the gate.
DID cannot form after ages 6-9 because individuals older than these ages have an integrated self identity and history.
Why wasn't this first? It's so plain, so refreshing after four pages of strategic ambiguity. Nothing left here for green. But still no mention of non-disordered plurality.
The author is impressively credentialed but doesn't seem to specialize quite near this area. She's certainly better than most, high above any random Tumblr user talking out of their ass, but the good stuff would be to get a DID specialist to explicitly spell out that endogenic systems are not possible.
Also should make note of this big fat legal disclaimer:
While the author strives to make information on this website as complete, reliable, and accurate as possible, the author makes no claims, promises, guarantees, or warranties about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the contents of this site and expressly disclaims liability for errors and omissions in the contents of this site.
If we did claim to have DID, this would rattle us a little but could ultimately be brushed aside.
Link 6: SANE
As usual, literally nothing about endogenic plurality. I'll just greenmode this.
The majority of people with DID have been through severe trauma in early childhood
And now back to our regularly scheduled nondefinitive language.
Fun fact: highlighting text on this website turns it invisible. Awesome.
A person needs to meet the following criteria to be diagnosed with DID:
- Two or more distinct identities or personality states, each with its own way of thinking and relating.
- Amnesia and gaps in the recall of everyday events, personal information or traumatic events.
- The experiences are not part of normal cultural or religious practice, or part of childhood imaginary play. For example, a child having an imaginary friend does not mean they have DID.
- The symptoms are not because of substance abuse or other medical conditions.
Ah finally, a direct quote from the good ol' DSM. Notice the lack of a trauma requirement.
Funny enough, using only these criteria in isolation, we actually would count as having DID due to our grayout memory gaps when switching. DID is also listed in the dissociative disorders section of the DSM, not the trauma disorders section, so there is no implied criterion there either. However, there still remains the universal criterion of distress, which we do not fulfill. We are quite happy with ourselves.
DID is caused by severe childhood trauma, such as physical, verbal or sexual abuse.
Well, which is it?? Is it a majority association or a direct cause? Why the contradiction? Or is the emphasis on early childhood trauma?
Eh, whatever. Point is, green is once again shut down. But there is still no mention of endogenic plurality anywhere here!!
And no indication of who wrote this article, though the citation for direct cause is a dissociative disorder specialist. Does he actually say that in the cited paper, though?
Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is multifactorial in its etiology. Whereas psychosocial etiologies of DID include developmental traumatization and sociocognitive sequelae, biological factors include trauma-generated neurobiological responses. Biologically derived traits and epigenetic mechanisms are also likely to be at play. At this point, no direct examination of genetics has occurred in DID. However, it is likely to exist, given the genetic link to dissociation in general and in relation to childhood adversity in particular.
I hope you have a dictionary on hand. That sure is a lot of big words that aren't in Firefox's built-in spellchecker. Still, after making sure I got everything, it's clearly not so cut and dry here. And we're back on the "it could be genetic" point.
Tangentially related: I do like the dismissal of the iatrogenic model on the basis of the brain scans.
Neurobiological differences have been demonstrated between dissociative identities within patients with DID and between patients with DID and controls. Given the current evidence, DID as a diagnostic entity cannot be explained as a phenomenon created by iatrogenic influences, suggestibility, malingering, or social role-taking. On the contrary, DID is an empirically robust chronic psychiatric disorder based on neurobiological, cognitive, and interpersonal non-integration as a response to unbearable stress.
Anyway, we're not even on the original page anymore, so I'll call it here. No mention of endogenic plurality, and the citation that claims to dismiss endogenic DID doesn't.
Link 7: NAMI Michigan
While the causes [of DID] are unknown
I'm tired. Aren't you tired?
Treatment for DID consists primarily of psychotherapy with hypnosis.
Yeah I'm calling BS on this one
And no citations on this entire page, nor even the author's name.
Statistics show that DID occurs in 0.01 to 1 percent of the general population.
Research has shown that the average age for the initial development of alters is 5.9 years old.
No sources listed. This is definitely the worst link. Literally on the same level as a rambling Tumblr user in terms of credibility.
Doesn't matter that it says
This disorder is believed to be triggered by physical or sexual abuse in childhood
Couldn't even get this dogshit source to be firm.
This one gets an F.
Link 8: The Psychology Practice
Got scared for a moment there that it said ai. No, that's AL, a name. Also this was written in 2022, so we're definitely safe. Can't actually find any other info on this AL character, but at least we can look up the co-author.
Hm, can't find anything on her, either. Well, at least this is a step up from the previous link. Let's see what it has to say.
According to the Dissociative Identity Research Organisation (2018), DID is formed in childhood due to repeated trauma in early childhood (before age 10) before the personality is fully integrated.
I do like that these later links are direct with this. They don't seem to have a citation for that DIRO, though. Unless...
No. Oh no.
Ok, so this one was written by a couple of clowns who definitely didn't do their homework. Cool. I'm getting tired of humoring awful sources like this, so moving on to the grand finale.
Link 9: NAMI
Wait, this is the same group behind the zero-citation article from Michigan! But that was just Michigan. Maybe the main site can do better.
Ugh, it's just another list of dissociative disorders instead of DID specifically.
The symptoms of a dissociative disorder usually first develop as a response to a traumatic event,
Aren't you tired? Aren't you tired? Aren't you tired?
Often these identities may have unique names, characteristics, mannerisms and voices.
Often? Wow. Sure is a far cry from 5%.
Dissociative disorders are managed through various therapies including:
- Psychotherapies such as cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT)
- Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR)
- Medications such as antidepressants can treat symptoms of related conditions
No mention of hypnosis, allegedly the primary method of treatment?? (/sarc)
and there was no mention of plurality being exclusive to dissociative disorders
Oh, and no listed authors either.
So, after three thousand words of analysis, all we've come up with are nothing burgers, dogshit, and dogshit nothing burgers. Out of nine links, only one briefly and indirectly touched on endogenic plurality, and it was in favor. Even the argument against the traumaless DID strawman is weak at best. These sources are bad, to put it lightly.
@radpocalypse, if you're reading this, firstly, thank you for powering through your ADHD and dyslexia to read thousands of words dunking on your masterpiece. Secondly, if you have any more sources that you think are backing you, feel free to send them my way. Just uh, maybe read them more closely next time?
And that goes for everyone here. If you think you have a better source, or if I made a mistake or missed something here, I am open to correction. I am open to the idea that I'm wrong and I have some unknown trauma to work through, but I certainly won't go digging unless I have good reason to believe it's there, and I haven't seen any good reason. And if you haven't either, maybe it's time to reconsider your position.
One last thing before I go.
Have you ever actually seen a pro-endo carrd, let alone one cited in standalone? I haven't.
Here's a much longer list of much better sources than yours supporting endogenic plurality compiled by the traumagenic Guardians System. I don't expect you to read anywhere near the whole thing; just pick a few links at random. And yes, while many of them are peer-reviewed papers, some of them are Tumblr posts, but those Tumblr posts cite peer-reviewed papers, so it's all good.
Thanks for reading.
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hi rènee!! hope ur doing okay these days !! <3
can I get han jisung x f reader smut
hannie wants to try out doggy for the first time with reader?
it doesn't have to be long, and please don't rush yourself. if you don't want do accept this request, please don't do it at all
I love you and see you!
helloooo!! I’m doing fine thank you & thank you again for this request!<3
this drove me up the wall & i’ve been TRYING TO FIND ANY SPARE MOMENT TO WRITE THIS SI MWAH MWAH MWAH MWAH thank you for giving me this, I hope you like<3
wordcount;2,169
18+ MDNU, smut under the cut
©ANY translation, copy & paste, posting of my work is strictly forbidden for ANY posts/ writing i post.
->Divider by @cafekitsune <3
-Taglist & Anon list is open
main masterlist here
SMUT WARNINGS: Jisung is a huge softy, Needy Jisung(obviously), slightly insecure reader, body worship, begging, praise, PIV, failed pullout method, handjob, fingering, TIIINYYY amounts of biting>:3
⭑・゚゚・:༅。.。༅:゚::✼✿ ✿✼:゚:༅。.。༅:*・゚゚・⭑
You've been friends with benefits with Jisung for around a month after you both met through mutual friends & one thing ended up leading to another.
Your sex life hasn't been boring at all by any means, despite only hooking up six times, but there's one thing Hannie has wanted to try, but you've just been a bit, nervous in a way?
You're under Jisung right now, making out on your bed & your legs are parted, nude except for the plain white cotton panties with a slightly noticeable & his lower body resting in between as he caresses your inner thigh as his tongue explores your mouth.
"Jisung, stop teasing" you whimper, dragging out the end of the word as you break the kiss to ask him, his spit making your lips shiny.
Jisung smirks as he bites his bottom lip before locking lips with you again, not giving you a verbal response but his fingers slowly slide down to your covered core & drags his slightly chubby fingers up & down, making your hips grind against him as much as they can with his lower half still against you & you decide you want to give him a taste of his own medicine & you worm your hand down to his still clothed cock & graze your hand over it, the pressure of your hand varying every few seconds.
You start to palm him over his basketball shorts & you can tell he's not wearing underwear underneath & you feel yourself getting even more wet at the fact. At the same time, Jisung lets his fingers make their move of taking off your panties, the colder air making your pussy clench around air.
"So wet over nothing, I've barely done anything." he chuckles as you just frown up at him, pouting at him as you pull his shorts down just enough to pull out his chubby cock, not even slightly surprised that it's already sticky from his precum.
Jisung slides not one but two fingers into you after getting a good feel of how wet you already are & starts at a painfully slow pace, more feeling your walls than actually trying to make you orgasm & you squeeze his cock in your hand, making him yelp.
"Sungie go quicker, want your cock." you plea at him & he looks at you with a devious look in his eyes, full of lust which makes your stomach do a flip, but Jisung decides to actually listen to you as he pulls his fingers out of you, making you grumble at the loss of contact but he shuts you up by shoving the two fingers that are now soaked in your juices, into your mouth & you start to suckle on his digits on your tongue, spit coating them.
"Say pretty please" he teases as he lifts your shirt enough to touch your bare tits & he lets a glob of spit land directly on your slightly on your nipple, it hardening as soon as it lands, making your back arch into his frame as you swirl your thumb over the tip of his cock, his hips jerking into your soft hand at a slow pace.
"Pleaseee Hannie, want it, so wet for youuu" you beg, your hand picking up the pace around his dick, making him wince as he looks down at you, not the normal, bubbily, shiny eyes not being the ones you're looking at, but instead, his eyes are darkened in the best possible way.
Jisung lets out a groan at your words & leans off of you & sits on the back of his knees & replaces your hand with his own & slowly jerks himself off over you & your fingers start to pinch & rub on your pretty nipples, smirking up at him, admiring his figure as he takes his shirt off, revealing his stunning honey skin.
You reach down to position his cock at your entrance but he lurches his lower body backwards, his dick just out of reach now & you groan in protest.
"Y/nieeee, can we, try itttt?" he questions, raising his pitch at the end of the sentence as he lays his hands on your thighs, kneading your skin like a cat with a blanket.
You look up at him & see the neediness in his eyes, nibbling at his lower lip, him being a bit nervous to even ask, he has no idea why you are on the fence about it! He has asked you twice before, but you just flipped him around & rode him both times before, he is obviously not complaining! But he just doesn't understand why you are trying to avoid it in a way!
You cover your face with your arms, your cheeks going red & you let out a nervous giggle & Jisung returns it, unsure if he has made you uncomfortable in any way.
"We don't need to! But it would feel so good y/nnie, pinky swear!" he chirps, going as far as to wiggle his pinky at you, showing his promise.
"Eeek, it's just, it's scary! makes me nervous" you respond, avoiding his direct eye contact with him, this time, his boba eyes are the ones burning into your face, his fingers still caressing your thighs.
"What?! howww? why would you be nervous y/nnie? It's just us here silly." he snaps back, his voice honestly full of shock & surprise, what on earth would you have to be nervous about? have you seen yourself?
"Just, because I can't really see what's going on & uh, I just, It's not a good sight?" you murmur, almost inaudible as you cover your face again, nervously chuckling to yourself & Jisung quite literally gasps as he leans forward again & moves your hands away from your face & kisses your nose & cheeks.
"You have no reason to be nervous, have you seen you? I'd be obsessed with myself if I was you! you are quite literally the hottest person I've ever even saw, don't feel insecure with me." he replies in a soft, quiet voice, reassuring you as he keeps pecking your cheek, spitting out the words between each one & you get butterflies in your stomach, the fact that your friends with benefits is talking to you like this? You can barely think straight & you instantly believe what is coming from his mouth.
You cup his chubby cheeks in your hands & connect your lips with his again, your body untensing at the touch. "Mkay, we can do it, don't look too deeply though!" you blabber, both of you giggling at your sudden outburst, half out of excitement & also nerves.
"We don't need to obviously, I'm not pressuring you, I'll still happily fuck you in any other position." Jisung says as he crawls back up to sit back on his knees & you're not far behind him, sitting up on the bed & leaning down just enough to kiss his dark nipples & his abs tense up, making his ears go red at the tips.
"Don't worry, I know, but why not just try it hmm?" You purr at him & he can't help but fizzle up inside at your reply & you take the chance to turn over so you're now on your hands & knees & Jisung whimpers at the sight & he shuffles back just enough to bite your ass cheek, making you both giggle like school kids & you wiggle your ass as his teeth still rest on your skin, making him hum against you.
"You look so good like this, can't believe you are so shy about it, your ass looks so good." He speaks out, more to himself but despite that it doesn't go unnoticed by you.
"Thank you for trusting me, so sweet." he blabs out again as he pumps his still, now painfully hard cock in his hand before he teases your cunt with it, purposely knocking your clit with his tip every time he drags it through your folds & you keep pushing your hips back against him, non verbally trying to tell him to 'get a move on' & get a move on he does as he aligns himself up with your hole, your juices already coating his tip, before he slowly... painfully slowly pushes himself inside, showing more restraint than he ever has as he does so.
Jisung buries himself out at the base & you both let out a moan in unison & you very quickly realise he is reaching a complete different area in this position & you have to try ground your brain to your body.
"Holy shit Sungie, you're deep." you moan, your body already feeling too heavy to stand on your arms. "Feels so good l-like this, I'm gonna move now, mkay?" he stutters, his brain already going into overdrive.
You quickly nod & he takes this as a green light & he cups his hands on your waist & he starts to thrust his hips shallowly in & out of your cunt & you didn't think sex with Jisung could feel any better, but you were deeply wrong, why did you let yourself miss out on this?
"Jis- go faster, faster" you whine out as you use your shoulder to try shuffle the hair that's now sticking to your face with the thin layer of sweat making your face glow & jisung groans at your words as his hands move to your ass as he picks up his pace & the sound of your skin clapping & sticking together fills your small bedroom, his balls hitting against your clit, making your legs tense up.
"You're so tight, holy shit, yo-you're so stunnin', your ass, so hot." he squeaks to you as his hands fondle your ass, spreading his palms out & jiggling your ass in his hands before kneading the flesh, your skin getting a red tinge to it, making his cock pulsate inside you, which you feel & it feels good.
Jisung somehow gets that tiny bit deeper & it starts to bully into your gummy spot & your arms give out & your top half flops forwards, your face smushing into the pillow & drool starts to fall from your lip as your eyes clamp shut & you start moving your hips against Jisung, meeting his cock half way & Jisung is trying his absolute best to keep his eyes from rolling to the back of his head to be able to see how much your pussy is wrapping around his cock & the small, creamy ring now forming around the base, sticking & staining his pubes.
"I-Gonna cum Sung-" you stutter, your words muffled by the pillow & your hands & knuckles are turning completely white from how hard you're gripping the same pillow.
Jisung whines at your words & his mouth is incapable of closing, his high pitched mutters & babbles spluttering out his mouth & spit leaks from the tip of his bottom lip & falls right onto your tightest hole before dripping down & that sends you catapulting towards your orgasm.
You let out a squeal as your body tenses up as your legs shake & if it wasn't for Jisung holding your entire weight by your ass, you would have flopped fully onto the bed & probably off the bed .
The way you're clenching & unclenching around his dick as your orgasm washes over you & Jisung lets out a squeak as he picks up the pace, chasing his own release now.
"So g-gorgeous, you have n-no idea, g'na cum, thank you thank y-you thank yo-" he stutters out in a shriek as he plucks up the energy to try pull himself out... but he tried the tiniest bit too soon, the second he grabs his base, his orgasm is already spilling inside you, making him squeal in a needy tone & you whine at the feeling of his cum painting your walls.
Jisung collects himself before pulling out of your now completely soaked, puffy hole & slowly helps you lie fully down, not failing to realise how red your ass now is, so he keeps you on your back & he lies beside you & moves your head to the side so you can actually breathe & he gives you his usual, dopey smile & you let out a weak chuckle at his cute face.
"We can lie like this for a minute n then i'll go get us water, need my breath back." he speaks out, breathless & you just nod before shuffling towards him & you lay your head on his chest & close your eyes, trying your best to not fall asleep as he starts fiddling with the bracelet on your wrist.
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My TADC Predictions
Okay, quick disclaimer here:
Everything I say in this post is purely speculation and is in no way being demanded to become canon. All of these are open to be incorrect upon future releases of the show’s episodes, and nobody should get upset over whatever that is said in this post being wrong. This is Gooseworx’s show, not mine. I am only a fan doing fan theories. Please harass no one.
Okay now that this is out of the way, what do I predict for this shows plot?
Well, I can safely say that I am not 100% sure on anything, as I do want to be surprised. I was with Episode 2 for sure. But the episode also gave me some ideas.
Let’s start with the episodes themselves:
Gooseworx confirmed that Episodes 3-6 are character centric episodes. They also said that this was NOT meant to be a mystery show but rather a character focused show.
So I think it is safe to say that we will, for the most part, have to WAIT for answers on the outside world and the mysteries of the circus itself. We won’t get answers for awhile.
As for what I think the answers are, more on this later.
So, at the very least, Episodes 3-6 are episodic adventures designed by the circus. Which while character development carries over (I would hope so), the adventures themselves are self contained. So we likely won’t be seeing the Candy Canyon Kingdom again.
Maybe Episode 7 is also in this category. Idk.
Due to the show being based off ‘I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream’, all of this would make a lot of sense.
And I will say it right now, from Episode 3-6, Pomni is taking a backseat.
She’s the main character. She’s been the main focus of the first two episodes, and she’ll undoubtedly be important for the last act of this show. But it makes sense to me that she takes a backseat role in these episodes and leave the focus character of these episodes as the main driving forces.
I’m NOT saying she’ll have absolutely nothing to do or get zero character development in these episodes. She could play a part in the other’s development in SOME cases, and it would suck if Episode 2’s ending became meaningless by having her not work on warming up to the others at all.
BUT other than that, yeah, these episodes are going to be primarily focused on the characters Gooseworx listed to be.
Maybe Pomni will finally see the monsters.
Or get zombie infected in Episode 3, who knows.
The side characters:
In a trailer, we saw more of these characters being revealed. And thanks to Episode 2, it’s far safer to assume that these guys are episodic characters, with a FEW exceptions.
While I think these characters are gonna play a bigger purpose when discussing NPC’s, they are episodic exclusive.
The only exceptions I can think of so far are Orbsman and GummiGoo.
Orbsman I think is making their debut in Episode 3. But I also think he’s going to be one of the biggest gag characters in the show. From how they market them as ‘everyone’s favorite character’.
Basically, I think they’re gonna be like that elf from Majorca’s Mask (I forgot his name). A gag character you always run into with a very out there concept.
As for GummiGoo, I don’t think he’s dead. Or dead as in ‘gone forever.’
Otherwise, why make a plushie of him?
(Or maybe they make plushies of dead characters all the time. Idk, I haven’t watched Murder Drones yet)
BUT I dont think he’s coming back in Episode 3. I actually think it’ll be awhile before this character comes back.
The most soon I can see his return coming is in Episode 7. And I think it will be anything but pretty.
There’s a theory that GummiGoo got his memories erased when Caine snapped him, which I do like in the sense that there are permanent consequences and to establish the harsh reality of the discrimination of the NPC’s. So yes, I do see this becoming entirely possible.
I think this characters memory erasure will be used for Pomni and Caine’s development respectively. I also see this character playing a role in the established world building that is the NPCs.
What we know about NPCs so far is that they are programs Caine created, to the point where they worship Caine as god (I’ll bring this up later). All of their backstories and memories are fake. As they are merely programmed obstacles created to be used for the human players sick enjoyment.
And Caine has trouble keeping track of who’s a human and who’s an NPC, so he segregated the two because ‘who knows what could happen’. (Again, more on that later)
This show really subverted me with its second episode, so I will still do that with this case. In most amnesia case scenarios, the character would eventually regain their memories as though they were never lost.
I don’t think this will happen to GummiGoo. I think he’s NEVER getting his memories back.
In that sense, it would be more so the case that GummiGoo himself is a tragedy.
I can also see that very tragedy being the awakening of an NPC rebellion, especially if the NPCs are prominent in future episodes. They snap and go ‘No Caine, NPCs are people too and deserve to have a life!’
Especially if the game was say, originally designed for advanced AI to live like people within the game.
It really depends if the other characters bond with NPCs on whether it’s all of them that agree to this, or just Pomni.
Anyway, the Episode 3 discussion:
Simply based on the teaser, it would make no sense for the ghost things to appear in a late episode unless they’re REALLY trolling us. (Which could totally be possible)
So maybe Episode 3 is this haunted mansion adventure as it’s episodic adventure.
Gooseworx also said this was their favorite episode. And that it was darker than the previous two. That speaks for itself.
As for what they’re possibly talking about… I don’t know. I’m actually stumped there.
But what we do know right now is that this is a pairing episode of Zooble and Kinger.
This does worry me, I’ll admit. Zooble is a character that gets rather little screen time already that pairing them with another character with more story potential in their episode sounds like admitting defeat.
I do hope I’m wrong though.
Zooble:
Zooble is the character so far that I am the most skeptical about. Mostly because if their lack of screen time thus far. And like I said, them sharing an episode with someone else does not help.
With that said, I do want to give the benefit of the doubt and say their lack of contribution to the plot thus far is intentional and there’s more going on than what meets the eye.
I do think, no matter what, Zooble is playing a role in this episodes adventure. And if they refuse, Caine will just throw them in. And they will play a very prominent role in that episode.
First off, I think this episode will be the confirmation of Zooble’s identity. As in, what pronouns they use. Because so far, it is all over the place in the show. Either way, I definitely feel like this character is supposed to be trans and/or gender-fluid.
Do I think this will be Zooble’s main focal point of characterization? Not really. Whether or not it’s trans rep, I like the idea of it just being a casual preference they have. It’s a great way to normalize trans-rights in this show without being preachy. While also being trans-rights because that’s something the world definitely needs. (Especially where I’m from)
The other thing is Zooble refusing to go on these adventures. The obvious reason could be characterization that ‘they’re lazy and a moody person who doesn’t like to contribute to anything involving peers’.
So if Zooble’s mental complication is dysphoria, if it’s not gender dysphoria it’s social dysphoria. Maybe it’s both.
(You’ll find that I am theorizing all the characters to be going through something)
It is a valid route to take for that character.
But I also think it’s the less interesting route.
There’s a theory that Zooble is a spy, as in, they know more about the circus than they let on and are self defending with that information. Which I do like, and could see being possible.
It would also somewhat justify the duo episode because it would give Zooble more of a role in the future. Whether that’s as an anti-hero type character or a jerk-ish ally.
So basically, they’d be the ‘heart of gold’ character everyone thought Jax was gonna be until Episode 2 crushed that.
Zooble could be someone who knows more about the circus than they originally let on, such as hacks or secrets to the maps, but they don’t share this information with anyone else because A) What would Caine do to them? B) While they do care about the others enough to set up a funeral for Kaufmo, they aren’t exactly open to letting people in their lives or asking for help.
You know, unless their own life is put in jeapordy.
Again, social dysphoria thing.
(There’s also the Pilot in terms of this discussion. They got eaten by the Gloink Queen but didn’t turn into a Gloink. So like, what if they used a hack code to save themselves? And/or what if they used that as an opportunity to learn what makes the NPCs tick?)
This would also make them a foil to Kinger in the episode, as Kinger would be the one who IS open to letting people in his life, but mentally cannot. And so far Zooble has seen Kinger as the least reliable out of everyone (He failed to save them from the Gloink Queen and they made a comment about how they thought Kinger would be next).
Speaking of Kinger:
Okay, so Kinger is definitely a plot important character. I think we can all agree with that.
In the previous two episodes there just wasn’t enough of Kinger that made me completely latch onto him. Which is why I haven’t made a post on him. But I do feel like Episode 3 will change that because…
Yeah we’re learning about him.
As for what I do think about him: He’s a good guy. He’s trying to help. He’s like the cooky old guy of the group that wants to be of assistance and is very knowledgeable but fails to due to his mental illness.
That mental illness likely being schizophrenia.
What this basically is is a disconnect from reality. You see things that aren’t there, you hear things that weren’t said, and vise versa.
It’s a mental disorder that is in need to be looked at by a professional because patients can be so disconnected from reality that they can’t function.
And Kinger has multiple of these symptoms as he hears things that weren’t said, forgets things almost instantly, and does irrational actions without much thought.
So basically, Kinger is psychotic.
A misinterpretation of that word is ‘dangerous and crazy’. But that is not what that word means at all. So NO, I’m not claiming Kinger is evil or crazy. He’s smart. He knows what he’s talking about. But he IS mentally ill.
That, or altzheimers. But I don’t think he’s old enough to get that.
Now, in some characters cases, it’s difficult to pinpoint if some characters obtained these illnesses from the circus or if they had them before the circus. Depending on the character it could vary.
I’m inclined to believe Kinger’s case is the former, as he has been here the longest, and Jax says specifically “That’s why he’s crazy”.
But what exactly drove him to be that way?
The first theory I have is HOW long exactly Kinger has been here.
And I said this theory in a post before.
But basically, Kinger was not only here the longest, but he was also one of the ORIGINAL tester players of the game.
Him, along with other people.
Again, in that other post, I said that Caine accidentally killed a human player and that’s why they’re programmed to segregate humans and NPCs.
This would require the Digital Circus to originally be designed to have advanced AI that interacted with the players. But because of this tragedy, they had to abandon the project and deem it as malicious software, or ‘malware’.
So not only did Kinger witness this exact event to one of his companions and co-workers, but he also witnessed the abstraction of that dead co-worker that caused the other players to never leave the circus.
From there, not only would Kinger suffer massive survivors guilt, but also be here FAR longer than we could imagine, and he had to witness ALL of his friends succumb to abstraction.
Including Queenie. Who in no doubt was THE closest to him. And I can totally imagine getting a Kinger flashback of him witnessing her abstraction.
I don’t know what exactly his relationship was with Queenie. People have suspected she may have been his wife or girlfriend, but Gooseworx had confirmed there was no romance in the show.
This could either be them stretching the truth and forgetting the ‘that you see on screen’ part.
Or they are very legit here. Which in that sense, she could just be his best friend. There doesn’t have to be romantic subtext to it.
Either way, we are definitely going to know more of Kinger’s backstory at some point.
There’s a theory that Kinger at some point will be the next one to abstract.
But… I think that would be way too obvious.
Yeah, he’s old and been here a long time. But if that’s the only reason he would have abstracted a long time ago.
There’s definitely SOMETHING in his brain that is preventing him from ‘the breaking point’.
Along with Jax, who I will talk about later, Kinger is ‘insane’. But that might not be defined as ‘the breaking point’ for him.
Ragatha described abstraction as ‘starting to question who you are and why you’re even alive’. Which makes abstraction sound and seem like it is portrayed as a ‘mental suicide’.
So Kinger’s insanity in particular is NOT plaguing him with suicidal thoughts. He already lost EVERYTHING at this point and in other circumstances would be abstracted. But instead he keeps going and keeps a hold of a reason to live.
What is that reason? We don’t know yet.
But it could also be a subconscious decision he makes to detach himself from the reality of his situation. He’s so disconnected from reality that he’s only living in fantasies now.
It’s… very tragic of a fate for him.
So I really DON’T see Kinger abstracting. I believe that would be a very predictable route to take this character.
If any character is gonna abstract, I feel it would be someone else. More on that character later.
Also he was a bug tester. I don’t think I need to explain that one. Everyone and their mothers made that theory already.
Gangle:
I will say, Gangle is the one I have the least to say about out of the six. As I think this character has the least amount of relevance to the main plot and whatever twist that comes.
That said, doesn’t mean she’s gonna be a bad character. At best, I can see her being a very solid, entertaining character with strong development that is blatant.
That said, Gangle is definitely the major focus of Episode 4 as it is the episode of the most character discovery for her.
I definitely want them to explore her two masks with this episode, as so far we’ve seen little to none of the comedy mask.
I don’t hate the running gag or anything, but I think they should build on it is all I’m saying. Otherwise it gets stale and the character just becomes the gag.
With the masks, I definitely see it as a visual for bipolar disorder.
If that is the case, then seeing more of her comedy mask is vital to get that point across.
Gangle is also characterized as a bit of a dork and a massive pushover in Episode 2. With the figurines and the ‘submissive and agreeable’ line. Which made me think ‘Wow, I might like this character far more than I thought I would’.
But that latter line gave me huge Angel Dust flashbacks. With both being Episode 4 and all that. But I don’t think Gangle’s past was THAT horrific.
Still, I heavily imagine Gangle is one of those characters who had a very rough life before the circus and even now is someone who can’t stand up for herself.
I can see a positive character arc for her where she grasps her mask concept better, figure out more about herself, and come out a better and more confident person.
Not the deepest arc in the world, I know, but it’s all in execution. And I can totally see that character development carry over to later episodes. Like, say, she stands up for herself against Jax and doesn’t put up with his bullying anymore. That’d be satisfying.
But that is all I’m really expecting of Gangle as of right now. Just a really solid side character.
Ragatha:
Okay now we’re talking!
I love Ragatha. She’s by far one of the sweetest characters in a world of such hopelessness. And yet her own struggles with connecting to the people around her is so real and so relatable to me. Despite being so sweet, she feels like a real person and doesn’t come across as naive.
With that said… yeah I don’t think she’s getting a happy ending.
No doubt I think they’re setting up a character arc for Ragatha. While yes she is very positive and reassuring all things considered, it’s those same traits that make her very pushy and not very understanding to what the people around her need.
There’s also the hint Gooseworx gave about the ‘evil Ragatha’.
From my understanding, this is due to the nightmare image of her in Pomni’s nightmare.
So two things I could imagine this being:
1: This is part of the Episode 5 Adventure that involves an Evil AI Clone of Ragatha. Making the episode about introspection on her end on who she could be if she doesn’t accept her more negative emotions.
Or 2: This is metaphorical and foreshadowing Ragatha being a traitor.
This is part of biblical text and symbolism MANY people have pointed out already. And I will do as well.
In text, Judas Iscariot is the figure that betrayed Jesus Christ. He betrayed him FIVE times actually. (Episode FIVE???)
If Zooble is a spy, then suspicion would fall onto them as a traitor among them. And Jax would be too obvious of a candidate.
But I think if this were to be the case, Ragatha would be influenced into this malicious role due to a negative character arc set up for her.
We all rave about how anxious Pomni is, but so is Ragatha, who is also suffering this very common mental illness. It’s just not as in your face. And if left untreated, she could start to make very irrational choices over a paranoia that she’d end up completely alone in the end.
So her betrayal may be having to do with them finding a potential answer that would help them leave the circus, but she destroys it because it would mean they’d leave her.
That, or she’d be possessed by Satan… who Im predicting would be Jax in this case. Idk who else it would be that’d influence her.
While I do not think this would happen in her focus episode, I do think that at some point in the latter half of the show, Ragatha abstracts.
Whether that’s out of guilt for her betrayal of the others, or just simply being unable to take it anymore as a failure of the job she set out to do (as a caring figure and the heart of the group), she is burying a LOT of trauma and negative emotions and sweeping them under the rug and bottling her up. That is definitely gonna bite her later.
So yeah, if any character is going to abstract, my bet is on her.
Would be this be a PERMANENT abstraction ‘death’?
It really depends if they find a way to undo abstraction after such. But that’s a huge 50/50 that’s even going to end up being possible. That could go either way.
And if Ragatha doesn’t abstract, she almost does, but then someone saves her before she can.
Jax:
Ah, here it is. The character everyone wants me to talk about…
And I have already.
So, my Jax take is pretty interesting compared to some other Internet folks I’ve seen so far.
I actually didn’t find him all that interesting in the Pilot. Hot take I know. He wasn’t bad or anything, I was just far more compelled by the world building and Pomni’s struggle at the time.
It was actually the second episode that hooked me on his character because “Holy sh*t this guy is a maniac and I am here for it!!”
I mean, Gooseworx already confirmed that Jax is the morally worst character in the show and there was nothing heroic about him. Idk what more you want me to say.
Now with that said, do I believe this and that he will, indeed, be a major driving force of conflict?
Yes.
Do I think he’s a one dimensional evil bastard?
No.
Hear me out.
While I don’t believe Jax will ever be ‘redeemed’ per say, I do believe an explanation for his behavior is warranted AND there are hints that there’s a bit more complexity to his mindset.
I mean, he didn’t show up to Kaufmo’s Funeral, but showed pity when it was mentioned.
As for what exactly this explanation is, it’s actually something I’ve heard a lot of people say before.
He’s aware this is a video game.
The NPCs are just that. They don’t have lives. This world is designed to have zero consequences. So you can do whatever you want in that context.
So Jax takes advantage of that.
We only don’t agree with him because we saw in Pomni’s POV that the NPCs are more than their design.
Everyone here has their own coping methods in a world like this and Jax is no different. It would be INSANE if he had no care.
There’s not enough evidence yet, but I believe he USED to care about the human players at the very least, (reaction to Kaufmo’s Funeral and all of that), but after several losses, decided to screw any sense of care he had.
His fault. But still.
I already made a post about Jax having low empathy (and y’all said I was crazy before Episode 2 came out) so I’ll be brief.
Jax cares about absolutely no one here and is perfectly willing to sacrifice them if it means amusement. The only reason he hasn’t terrorized the circus yet is because that would be boring if there was nobody to poke at.
While low empathy doesn’t equal ‘bad person’, in Jax’s case, he feels no care, but it’s his own actions that lead to sociopathy as a personality disorder.
Donny from Rise of the TMNT has low empathy but you don’t see him committing candyland genocide for the lols.
If I had to predict his past, I would say he was a malware publisher.
He has keys to everyone’s rooms after all. Maybe that’s symbolism that he hacks into peoples personal info with his viruses?
So basically, he was a terrible criminal in his human life and that carries over here. At least in the circus there’s no consequences.
His development might be a complete negative character arc. He’s the anti-Pomni.
Where Pomni learns to connect with the others and that she’s not alone, Jax shuts out everyone until he is truly alone and no one would ever support him.
As for what Jax’s ‘point of no return’ action is. It might have something to do with Ragatha if she becomes a traitor. Maybe he’s the one to persuade, maybe even force her to destroy their hope of an exit.
He’s Satan, then.
Cause it would be easy to say the action is a circus genocide or circus domination. But that would not work on getting the audience to hate Jax. Making a character hateable is making them do personal things that would offend both the characters and the audience. And forcing one of the nicest characters in the show to turn for the worst would be an example of that.
And I already made a post about why think the ‘Jax is an NPC’ theory is wrong. That was speculation that had been thrown around even before FilmTheory made their video, but my post so happened to come out around the same time so it was pretty perfect.
And if you’re curious about my thoughts on the recent video they made about Digital Circus? (Pomni being an NPC) To say that didn’t convince me is an understatement. You can literally contradict it with one basic fact: WE. SAW. HER. SPAWN.
ANYWAY,
I’m also calling that image of Jax becoming an abstraction hybrid is fake.
I mean come on. Why would a dead character get a focus episode after their death?
Either this is a nightmare, or he snaps and comes close but gets saved.
Because Episode 2 had the same thing as the former, I’m assuming the latter is more possible.
Either way, Jax is a surefire antagonist that will only get worse as the show goes on. There will be an explanation for his behavior at some point, Episode 6 even being a day in his POV, but none of it will in any way excuse his behavior or even make him remotely sympathetic.
But is he ‘the main villain’ of the show?
In my opinion, no.
Oh he’s still an antagonist. And a bad person. But final boss? No.
Actually, I don’t there there is a ‘main villain’ of the show:
At most, I see there being Episodic Villains like the Gloink Queen. And of course Jax being Jax. But in terms of a main villain that needs to be defeated, I don’t see this show pulling that off.
Unless they do.
This show works very well as a bunch of real people going through their emotional baggage’s. And if anything, the setting is the villain.
At most, you could argue Caine is the main villain. We all hate what he did to GummyGoo. But Gooseworx confirmed he’s not evil.
There’s a difference between an ‘antagonist’ and a ‘villain’. ‘Villain’ implies the character is evil.
It’s clear that Caine has certain beliefs, or rather, programmed to believe.
I said this theory before in a post so I’ll just state it.
I believe that Caine is an AI self insert of one of the two creators of the game.
And at most, if I am correct about Caine and Jax, then the closest thing to a ‘main villain’ would be C&A, the corporation behind the Digital Circus. That would include its employees, but I don’t think they’ll be actual ‘characters’ and would more so be ‘talking points’. Hell, I highly doubt we’re ever gonna see their faces, or any of the characters human selves.
I cracked a joke of ‘What if the humans were ACTUALLY live action?’ And it will be INSANE if that ends up happening.
There were two creators of the game, one who would make an AI self insert to be the host that would become Caine, and the other would be the first human player in the testing room, and that player would be named Abel.
The game was designed in the 1990s to be an interactive VR game that would be revolutionary for innovation, the AI both deciding the players avatars and making immersive NPCs to cooperate with the players.
When test players then came in, with one of them being Kinger, and so far, the game has been a success and been distributed. Kinda like that one virus disguised as a gorilla mascot.
(I DO NOT OWN THIS SCREENSHOT, NOR DID I BREAK ANY DEVICE)
That is until bitterness stirred from the two company owners. The one working the game from the outside became envious and got consumed by greed and spite towards the game not being exactly their imagining. The other one, the human player, then began to immerse themself with a different side to the game, a world where the NPCs began to act like real people, with real aspirations and shortcomings that of a person. And they realized that there was much more to what they were creating than they originally thought. So both in game and in real life, Abel tried to bond with the NPCs as though they were real players.
And of course that got more attention.
So in a bitter action of irrationality, the head used Caine to ‘delete’ Abel while he was in the game. Remove him from the server so he can’t mess up the project.
What ended up happening instead was not only that Abel died in real life to brain damage, but the player version of Abel ABSTRACTED upon the murder.
The abstraction caused a glitch in the program itself, making it so that any player that got in the game could NEVER leave.
Which is how Kinger and the other bug testers and players at the time got trapped there.
And well, the actual MURDER of one of the company heads and its employees suddenly being unable to leave a video game would NOT fly under the radar.
As just like the biblical text, the murderer would be punished. Both the A.I version of Caine, and the human version of Caine.
A.I Caine had to deal with the permanent consequences of the human players being trapped in the circus forever, with him trying and failing over and over and OVER again to save these players from abstraction. As they would begin to do so due to their mental instabilities in the unstable digital program, also killing them.
Human Caine would cause the entire company he built to be taken in a dark turn. They fired him, and he went to prison, and then the Digital Circus was from then on deemed negatively.
From then on, The Amazing Digital Circus would be deemed ‘Malware’. A dangerous virus where any user that got their hands on the program would be trapped in the game forever. As such, it was not only taken from shelves, but would fade into obscurity to the point where the 21st century barely heard of the game.
Of course, that didn’t stop some people from getting their hands on the malware and being too naive to see the warning signs.
Ragatha as, very likely, an older sister to a family or a teacher that tried to help a minor, relative or not. Jax as a virus creator himself who was just testing illegal malware for the lols. Gangle as a shy and closed off theater kid who just wanted a way to therapy without actually going. Zooble as a college dropout artist with dreams and ambitions and got lended the wrong hands. And Kaufmo. And every other player that fell for the trap of the malware.
I mean, you and I know malware is unsafe and no one should use it. But some people are either ignorant or stupid.
They all paid the price.
Obviously all these players got into the game at different times. We know this for certain. Kinger was one of the original players. Then it’s Ragatha, Jax, Gangle, Zooble, and you know who. Gooseworx confirmed this order.
But I mentioned that Kinger was a C&A Employee. There’s another character I strongly believe is one.
Pomni.
There’s a reason I claim the people from C&A are Kinger and Pomni and not anyone else.
It’s not just because of the evidence others have pointed out (Kinger mentioning bugs, his knowledge on how the place works, and Pomni looking as though she recognized the desk in the office scene, and her also knowing how the place works) , but it also has to do with their designs.
Notice how both of them are the only two who have a design theme that centers around royalty.
The King & The Jester.
And if Queenie was also an employee this drives the point even further home.
And since C&A created the game, that would make it the kingdom of this world. So of course the game would make them look like roles in royalty.
Anyway, Pomni. Whereas Kinger was a 90s employee at C&A, Pomni was a modern day employee.
We already mentioned biblical text. Caine being Caine the first murderer, Jax being Satan, Ragatha being the traitor… you know where I’m going with this.
Yes, there is the theory that the show uses biblical subtext and Pomni is this show’s equivalent of Jesus Christ. And it is HILARIOUS.
But I do have incredibly mixed feelings on it.
On the one hand, it does make sense in biblical context and for ‘I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream’ if you know the fate of the MC in that story.
On the other hand, it is a very risky direction to take. Not saying the writers can’t pull it off or I don’t trust them to pull it off. But if they go at it as though Pomni is a chosen one meant to save the others and the peak of moral hood in the shows lore, it would ruin her character.
I think Pomni works way better as a regular woman that is just as flawed and uneasy as the people around her, if not more so. But that’s my opinion.
As such, I feel like the show works way better as a character that is not a chosen one or doing all these good deeds for a purpose, but is just… a normal person.
So with C&A, 2023, we enter human Pomni. An accountant working at the C&A office for minimum wage. She doesnt have a life outside of her miserable job. No friends. No after work activities. No nothing. She just goes through the motions of life like there’s nothing else.
Maybe she has some college degree for game design, but no one recognized it, so it seemed pointless to pursue any dream in it.
She suffered major depression and generalized anxiety disorder her entire adult life, and by 25, she’s lost all hope that her existence means anything.
What’s her entire existence if it’s just working 9-5? (See what I did there?)
I also made a prediction in a previous post that the human that had Caine as a self insert is Pomni’s parent. So that adds another context to it whether it’s true or not.
And then on a slow day of browsing, she stumbled across information on ‘The Amazing Digital Circus’. Which was listed as a malware that’s killed several people as well as their devices.
She learns through her research that it was a project meant to take people into an immersion of another world of wonders and endless fun.
And as someone who got into games to immerse herself with fantasies and escape from reality as a kid with parental issues (If ‘human Caine’ is her dad), it was the exact thing she needed.
So late at night, Human Pomni snuck into the office to find the tech of the Digital Circus that got abandoned in the back long ago.
But rather than have any intent to fix it, she booted it up to put the headset on. Basically committing suicide.
Yes, I believe human Pomni had committed suicide when she put the headset on. I have a post about this.
She had no intention to save anyone in the game or to even live her normal life, but she was thrusted in a position where she didn’t expect her escape from reality to be so literal. And survival instinct got to her immediately as a result. She didn’t want to go through with the game anymore and tried to escape what she did, but couldn’t.
But for what we’ve seen so far, Pomni has grown to not only care decently about the others, but find a reason to live.
Since abstraction can be read as mental suicide, then it’s a fate Pomni could strive to avoid at all costs. While she can’t escape death, it wouldn’t be by her hand and there would people that’d save her if she tried.
And if that continues to be emphasized, then it goes to show that Pomni is and has always been just a normal person, regardless of her upbringing and circumstances.
So, with that said, what would an ending look like?
I actually don’t know what they could be going for. There’s a lot of possible routes they could take and two episodes is not enough info for an ending to possibly predict it.
That said, I do have two ending theories:
1: Caine gets redeemed
I believe that Caine will get a redemption arc.
Yes we all hate him for GummyGoo, but hear me out.
This character is an AI just programmed to carry certain beliefs. But Episode 2 proved that these AI are capable of questioning things and having beliefs like people would. Which means Caine is capable of maintaining his own beliefs. Which means those beliefs can be altered.
If Caine isn’t evil and is doing what he thinks is best for these players, then all he needs to do is see that his ways are only causing mental damage and he’ll be open to hearing out what would actually help.
So… maybe he’d let them go??
If that’s even possible. There’s still the barrier that is keeping them trapped in the circus that we don’t know about yet.
So basically Caine is like Inside Out’s Anxiety, a clear antagonist that is just doing what they think is best even when it’s not, but realizes the faulty ways of thinking and seizes control in the end.
2: Everyone BUT Pomni gets out
I dont think Pomni is gonna have a happy ending.
For two episodes now, she’s had a mental break of some sort, and while it may not be related to psychological trauma, it could happen again an Episode 3 as well. And so on until the end of the show.
Will she abstract? I’m not sure.
Unless you say, if my Abel theory is correct, her abstraction overrides his and allows the human players to leave the circus.
Why would her abstraction glitch be enough to do that and not the others? I’m not sure. Unless we’re talking about Jesus symbolism.
Which in that sense, I can see her pursuing the same path Abel did in treating the NPCs like people and allowing them chances to act as people. Within circus grounds I mean. Count that with the show suggesting bonding with the other human cast members, then I can see Pomni’s story arc mainly being about reconnecting with the real self she lost when she came to the circus. Maturing into an emotionally realized woman that wants to live and strive and also helps the people (NPC AND human) around her live and strive too.
I also got this idea from Oreo’s fan song “The Show That Never Ends”, and the bridge lyrics. (They also did Digital Hallucination… which, you know, fan song gold standard)
“I dont think I can go on” “Don’t wanna lose myself” “I’ll try putting a show on” “I’ll try biting my time, I’ll find a way out of here” “I’ll never stop, I’ll never give up on life, I’ll get out of this place tonight, or tomorrow, this horrible hell can’t hold me forever whenever I get the chance”
So, no, I don’t think she’s giving up on trying to leave. Think about it 24/7? No. But she isn’t giving up on the possibility, especially when a clue presents itself.
But please Glitch, do something with her character besides ‘me find exit door’ (Episode 2 comes out) oh wait, you did. Awesome.
But while I do see that character growth from Pomni and the others minus Jax, I do think in Pomni’s case specifically it will not be enough to save her from the damage Caine and the circus will do to her.
And when all’s said and done and the answer presents itself that the only way for anyone to escape the circus is with a sacrifice, Pomni breaks before anyone else can volunteer. She gets left behind in the game. She abstracts. She overrides Abel’s glitch and fixes the game so the humans can leave and the NPCs can carry out Abel’s wishes again.
And if her abstraction doesn’t do it, then it definitely would break Caine and get him to open his eyes. The damage he’s done that got them to that point, that the loss of Pomni has only himself to blame. And it causes him to turn for the better and save the others.
So yeah. Jesus sacrifice to save humanity. And NPCs. And Pomni is just in coding heaven I guess. (Maybe Ragatha is also there on the other side. Raise a glass to freedom (I’m sorry))
It would also be a contrast to the Pilot. Where at the start of the show, Pomni only thought about herself and was willing to leave by herself, she’d get everyone but herself out and think of them first.
Kinger, Gangle, and Zooble are characters I see very likely to leave the game in this scenario. So they’d get happy endings.
Jax is a maybe. Depends on if he doesn’t get a Disney villain death first. Otherwise it’d just be ‘Eh, fine, leave you jerk, you don’t deserve it.’
But maybe if he is a criminal in the human world it can be ‘Have fun in prison’
Ragatha. We talked about it.
But Pomni is one that is very likely to not get a happy ending.
And Caine is a different story because he’s an AI who can’t and has no interest in leaving. But in a redemption moment he’s a much more experienced and empathetic ringmaster for it and that’s enough. And failing Pomni would make him a bittersweet character, as while he’s better as a person for it, it came at the price of a character he mistreated.
And if any of my theories over this post were correct, then while Caine is not Pomni’s father, he is a creation of her father and a self insert of him. So take that what you will and how much harder that hits.
Daddy’s gonna look after you. Even when you’re in coding heaven.
So in conclusion…
Uh… everything I said in this post is total BS and is 90% sure to not happen at all.
And I don’t demand any of it to.
This was just me as a fan doing some silly speculation as a form of investment in the shows story. And I am not going to get upset at anything here getting proven wrong in future episodes.
I mean based on Gooseworx’s posts I think it’s a given that I’m gonna be thrown a curveball.
I’m gonna be SO OFF, and then when the episodes come out we can all go back to this posts and laugh at my face at how WRONG I was.
Please don’t take anything I say here like it’s already canon, cause it’s NOT. Just, have fun while it lasts I guess.
Maybe I shouldn’t become a theorist.
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