#ALSO BATMAN/SUPERMAN WORLDS FINEST? SO GOOD

[taskforcebug]

Lil Kon doodle on me phone while me and the hubby read Batman/Superman world's finest :3

[give-grian-rights]

can someone tell me why im being abnormal about a character i've barely touched the content of. like yay yippie i watched like 20 hours of you. there's fucking 80 years of content get me OUT OF HERE?

[blkbats]

i want to read batman comics but i’m scared

[novadorks]

its a great day to be a fab five enjoyer !!!

[loverboybrightsideghost]

heLLO??????

[sassylittlecanary]

There’s been a lot of “I don’t want Batman in MAWS, it’s a Superman show!!! Stop putting Batman in everything!!” going around lately, and that’s fair! It is! But also? Batman kind of is part of Superman’s supporting cast thanks to their longstanding friendship in comics. Having Bruce team up with Clark on an episode of MAWS would be so much fun, especially because this is the kind of show that’s actually willing to portray close and healthy male friendships. Instead of the frenemies/rivalry/outright aggression we often get between Bruce and Clark in adaptations, it would be great for a feel-good show to actually portray them as close friends a la 1950s-1980s World’s Finest!

I think it’s less about trying to put Batman in everything and more about wanting to see MAWS!Clark interact with his longtime best friend.

[celaenaeiln]

whatre ur thoughts on superbat !!!

I like them! I don't actively ship Bruce with anyone but I so passively ship him with people and Clark pushes the passivity.

I don't like Batcat or Brutalia but I can go with superbat

Sometimes it feels like Superbat is the ship DC secretly wants us to ship them together.

I swear it feels like Bruce and Clark are having a parental argument and we just asked a question to which Bruce and Clark are like "what?" and the rest of the Justice League is glaring at us as if to say shut up don't you dare interfere.

Also the way Clark holds Bruce and talks to him

Dark Nights: Metal Issue #2

...is this supposed to be brotherly?

In the Superman: Up in the sky comic where Supes has to go find that kid, the other heroes are fighting an alien invasion they lose against. But the heroes he displays are only heroes that Superman loves the most or is closet to. There's 5 and guess who's the main panel:

Superman: Up in the Sky Issue #6

The other four are:

Superman: Up in the Sky Issue #6

Also the world's finest comics are all Dick, Clark, and Bruce going on adventures together. Dick is like the love child between Clark and Bruce. He has all of Bruce's intelligence, tactical abilities, and fighting skills, and he has all of Clark's charisma, warm-heartenedness, and good standing. He literally the mix of the two of them.

They're already a family. I think there are way bigger reasons to ship superbat than there are for batcat or brutalia. I still love Clois though but if you wanted a canon reason for why they should exist, well, DC is offering them up on a silver platter. Besides they have like three entire comics titled Superman/Batman.

The super-sons comic!

If Dick is their blood son then Jon and Dami are shared custody.

Super-sons (2017) Issue #5

They're kinda more like brothers here but still. Even if you don't ship them together, you still have to admit they care deeply about the other. Their banter's funny.

Also can't forget this

Superman/Batman Annual #1

DC literally went "...and there was only one bed."

[vinelark]

Hi! Just curious, what are your favorite comic runs? I've finished the comics on my current to-read list so I love hearing what other people like!

hello! as always i’m sure i’m forgetting plenty of stuff but these are some of my favs, both completed and ongoing series.

completed:

batman: the knight (2022)

miniseries, 10 issues total, so it’s extremely readable and really satisfying in a short amount of time! i like zdarsky’s bruce a lot (i’ve also enjoyed his work on the current batman run) and carmine di giandomenico’s art is fantastic. also, it’s the ghost-maker origin story and bruce & khoa somehow get divorced at least twice before the story’s over. love that for them.

superman: american alien (2015)

anthology collection about clark kent through the years, a really great read for superman—digging into clark’s character rather than focusing on external plot!—with some great cameos too (like young adult clark getting mistaken for some rich guy named bruce wayne at a yacht party, or reporter clark running into pre-robin dick grayson).

future state (2021) batman: dark detective

i am not immune to dan mora’s bruce wayne, especially when he is skrunkly and beat up the whole time.

batman: urban legends (2021)

an anthology so you can kind of pick up/put down as you like! these are a good read if you don’t want to be tracking huge overarching plotlines for a bit. the first few issues have a great jason series too.

ongoing series aka my current pulls at the comic shop:

spirit world (2023)

this one is new and is SO fun and compelling; i love xanthe already, and the assorted cast (including constantine and cass!) and new side characters (bowen my beloved, i’d die for you if you weren’t already dead) are delightful. one of those comics where i’m genuinely interested in the plot too and not just reading for my favs. alyssa wong is doing some really cool things with this concept/cast and i hope they have a chance to do way more in this world.

batman/superman world’s finest (2022)

again, i am not immune to dan mora, or the delightful superbat of it all. (and robin!dick! i love him.) i also started reading waid’s teen titans spin-off that takes place in this same era and there are only a few issues out so far but i’m having a great time.

city boy (2023)

i am OBSESSED with this concept (sentient cities! sharp-edged/lonely character figuring out his connection to them!) and the writing is super fun so far. also the intro comic (free on kindle/elsewhere; also has a free spirit world issue) has a great nightwing run-in.

i’m also subscribed to nightwing, superboy: the man of tomorrow, action comics (anything with kon crumbs…), and dark knights of steel (listen…i am still holding out hope for more royal court spy!tim crumbs), and i don’t know much about shazam yet but i’m giving the new series a try too.

[cantsayidont]

There are some things in DC's voluminous back catalog that they ought to properly reprint because they're good — gems of past eras. However, there are also some things they ought to properly reprint because they're delightfully stupid, like the Superman/Batman team-ups from WORLD'S FINEST COMICS. DC has actually reprinted all the stories from the '50s, through about 1961, but a lot of the '60s material has only been reprinted in the B&W SHOWCASE PRESENTS books, which is a shame.

The WORLD'S FINEST team-ups went through several distinct phases. Superman, Batman, and Robin had shared the covers of WORLD'S FINEST COMICS since 1941, but it wasn't until 1954 that shrinking page counts obliged them to actually share the lead feature. The '50s stories are pretty good of their time, with some lovely Dick Sprang art, and the presence of Superman meant the drift into science fiction was less jarring than in the contemporary Batman books. In 1964, editorial control of WORLD'S FINEST passed to Mort Weisinger and it became a Weisinger-era Superman book that happened to have Batman and Robin in it. Starting in 1967, though, things started to get stranger and stranger as Weisinger's stable of sci-fi veterans like Edmond Hamilton and Otto Binder gave way to Bob Kanigher, Cary Bates, and Bob Haney, who turned out some exceedingly weird material. Stories like the two-parter about Superman having died and willed his super-organs to various people (#189–190) aren't quite as ghoulish as the covers suggest, but their inexplicable weirdness is emblematic of the period.

For a little while in the early '70s, DC evicted Batman from the series, making WORLD'S FINEST a general-issue Superman team-up book. (DC reprinted those issues in trade paperback in 2020.) This apparently wasn't a big commercial success, but rather than immediately returning to the expected Superman/Batman format, WORLD'S FINEST began to feature the Super-Sons, the teenage sons of Superman and Batman in a hazily defined parallel reality — written by Bob Haney, whose stories consistently evoke the sensation of mild concussion. The "real" Superman and Batman also returned, although they had to alternate with their hypothetical future sons, appearing roughly every other issue through 1976. From 1976 to 1982, WORLD'S FINEST once again became an oversize anthology book, with a Superman/Batman main feature backed by a variety of other characters like Green Arrow and Hawkman. The stories in that period are not quite as ludicrous as the late '60s (although if you see Bob Haney's name in the credits, you know you're in for a wild ride), but even the soberer installments are consistently very silly, full of nonsense like Kryptonian lycanthropy and the return of some especially ridiculous older villains like the Gorilla Boss of Gotham City and Doctor Double-X.

It wasn't until issue #285 that Superman and Batman again had the book all to themselves. The late period dials back the zaniness and has mostly uninspired plots, but writers Doug Moench and David Anthony Kraft compensate with some eyebrow-raising and apparently deliberate "Superbat" ship-bait; my personal favorite is Kraft's "No Rest for Heroes!" (a short story in the back of WORLD'S FINEST #302), where Superman and Batman go to a dive bar in the middle of nowhere to talk about their relationship and Batman ends up throwing a knife at someone.

Very little of this stuff is actually good by any normal standard — although the 1964–1967 period is no more or less weird than any other Weisinger Silver Age Superman stories — and the artwork is only occasionally better than passable. However, it's so stupid and so ridiculous that it's consistently fun, in a way DC doesn't really do anymore, at least not on purpose. Assembling all the Superman/Batman stories (leaving the Super-Sons to their own TPB), omitting the various backup strips, and giving it decent color reproduction would make for a nice package, and the presence of Superman and Batman would make it more commercially viable than some of DC's more artistically worthy back catalog material. Low-hanging fruit, if you ask me.

[stealingyourbones]

Ok! You've convinced me! If I want to be part of this community, I should explore the source material. I don't know if I'll like the artform, but if nothing else it's a cultural juggernaut I can research. My mom grew up watching Batman the Animated series, so I know that's an entry point I can try out, but I do like webcomics and manga, so I know that I might like comics better. It's an odd criteria, but is there a batman comic I can start with that's aesthetically pleasing?

Ooo aesthetically pleasing? That’s one I haven’t heard before. I’ll throw you a handful of choices of my favorite pretty comics!

Also I do 100% reccomend Batman The Animated Series which is my favorite interpretation of Batman to this day as it is for many, that and Justice League and Justice League United are WONDERFUL gateways too! (My favorite animated DC series of the time is Superman The Animated Series tied with BtAS)

I always recommend in order: Batman Year One, Batman Long Halloween, and Batman Dark Victory as it’s how I got into Batman in the first place and it’s a pretty good jumping off point. They also have movies of all 3.

mAN ok this is hard because aesthetic comics are SUCH a personal preference. Comic artists will constantly change around all the time. The current Batman/Superman Worlds Finest comic run is INCREDIBLY aesthetically pleasing and pretty as it’s drawn by Dan Mora so that could be a good go to.

- The Dark Knight Returns. It’s has a very fun gritty artstyle that I adore and it’s a comic that changed comics as we know it.

- Batman Universe is a wonderfully fun comic and his artstyle is fun so definitely check that one out.

- All Star Superman (2005-2008) has… ok artwork. But you get used to it and it’s story is one of the best written for Superman modern day.

- JLA Tower of Babel. Art is nice and the story is about Batman’s contingencies falling into the wrong hands. Good shit

Onto some Elseworld stories that aren’t canon but I LOVE the artstyles:

- Batman White Knight’s artstyle is BEAUTIFUL but isn’t a very good interpretation for your first time reading comics as it isn’t normal characterization of everyone.

- Batman Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth drawn by Dave McKean. It isn’t my favorite comic with it’s very edgy “hey what if batman is insane” (which yeah no shit he is insane) but the artstyle is uncanny and disturbing and beautiful.

- Kingdom Come. You have to know a bit about comics beforehand, I’d just recommend reading an article or blogpost critiquing 90s comic books, and behold the genuine beauty and glory that is this story. Painted by Alex Ross it’s one of the most beautiful comics out there.

They’re available online, your local library, or at your local comic shop! I hope you have a blast checking out the cool things comics have to offer!

[allgremlinart]

hey do you perchance have like. idk a beginner's guide to superbat? I think that they're insane (good) but am afraid of actually getting into comics (so many. such a large amount of things. etcetera)

my motto is typically to never get anyone into comics unless I hate them very much but ... sure !

idk what ur entry level knowledge is .... "The Batman/Superman Movie: World's Finest" (1997) is a very good starting point for them, followed by their interactions in the Justice League (2000) and Justice League Unlimited (2001) cartoons.....

another good one is the "Superman/Batman: Public Enemies" (2009) animated movie based off a comic by the same name.

for comics.... honestly ? my favorite superbat comics are the original World's Finest Comics (1941-1986). will cover a lot of superbat content before the lore started getting well. super confusing (still not super clear on what pre-crisis means. fake fan ig). the first issue they appear in together is #71 (which references their first meeting in Superman (1952) #76 - also a cute read). they continue to team up in these comics til the 80s and man. does it get weird. weird and gay.

I might rb this post with more when I think of more comics/cartoons that I feel confident recommending, but this is a good start for now I think :]

[northoftheroad]

Dick Grayson reading in Rebirth and forward

In the last few years, there have been several comics where Nightwing is guest starring that I haven't picked up, so maybe I have missed some smashing comics in here; just saying. As usual, take this list for what it's worth – my personal interpretations and reflections. (Please note that there is a difference between cover date and when a book is actually published, and I might have mixed these dates in the list. I mostly use them to help my own thought process.)

I gather DC lets their creators play in any sandbox/Earth/continuity they want, which means it's a fool's errand to try to understand what, if any, stories from Dick's past are supposed to have happened in the current continuity. But I never claimed to be quite sane, did I...? Here is me, trying to piece together stories chronologically story-wise:

Nightwing vol 4 # 82. Flashbacks to pre-Dick John and Mary Grayson.

Batman vol 3 # 54. Has some flashbacks from when Dick was new in Wayne Manor. He has nightmares, climbs a chandelier, questions why Bruce took him in, and apparently doesn't know Bruce is Batman: nothing special but a few nice pages.

The Precedent. In Detective Comics # 1000 (2019). Bruce's hesitation before he lets Dick become Robin. Unclear if it's supposed to be in the current continuity.

Robin and Batman # 1–3 (2021-2022). A three-issue story that takes place in the days around Dick's twelfth birthday. It's about how Dick eventually chooses not to be "the dark" like Batman, but something better – the light, Robin. Not in the main continuity, but another version of how Dick became Robin (also a first meeting with the other original Teen Titans - in this version, they already had suits and code names when Dick first became Robin).

Batman: Urban Legends # 23

Hot pursuit. In Batman: Urban Legends # 23 (March 2023). Cute short story; Robin drives the Batmobile for the first time (his second year as Robin).

Batman One bad day: Mr Freeze. (2022) Probably not set in the main continuity, Robin is small and wears a winter suit.

Batman/Superman: World's Finest vol 1 (2022). One of my favourite books from the current era (written by Mark Waid). It has a different tone than other in-continuity books (in a good way), but it is connected; the first story arc is a prequel to Batman vs Robin and the Lazarus Planet event. Dick has been Robin for a few years in the book except for a few panels. My favourite issue is # 6, when Dick is lost in the past, works in a circus and solves a mystery.

Batman/Superman (2019) # 16–21 and Annual 2021 # 1 is an outstanding story with DickRobin, albeit not the main Earth version.

Nightwing vol 4 # 78. There are a few pages of flashbacks, what might be Dick and Barbara's first meeting, fighting bullies at school. The bully, Shelton Lyle, will later turn out to be the villain Heartless – Nightwing fighting him is a story that keeps getting set on hold.

Batgirl vol 5 # 14–17 (October 2017– January 2018). Guest starring Nightwing, including flashbacks to when he was Robin and Dick and Barbara were in High School. Nothing special.

World's Finest: Teen Titans (2023). New book about the Teen Titans (the original five plus Bumblebee) when they're starting, also written by Mark Waid. One issue has been published so far; Robin is struggling with combining Batman's distrust with leading the team.

Nightwing vol 4 # 92. Another couple of flashback pages, from Dick's time as Robin, when he took on more than he could chew and got hurt saving a guy's life. Alfred refuses to let Bruce into Dick's bedroom unless he removes the cowl "and leave your disapproval at the door".

"A little nudge". In Robin 80th Anniversary Special (2020). It's probably not the latest official story about how Dick left Robin to become Nightwing, but I wouldn't mind if it were. Dick leaves Robin by his own choice; Bruce is a bit of a jerk because he's not emotionally mature enough to say, "I know you've grown up and should move on; I'll be fine without you."

Nightwing vol 4 # 79. Flashback page of Dick leaving the Manor, saying, "He fired me, Alfred" (he's eighteen at the time). So evidently, Tom Taylor goes with that version in his writing.

Nightwing vol 4 # 39

Nightwing vol 4 # 39. Flashback to when Dick was a student in Blüdhaven, after leaving Robin and before he became Nightwing. He goes out to look for a murderer dressed in old workout clothes that looks a lot like his original Nightwing suit. Part of the best story arc of Nightwing vol 4, so don't miss it!

Red Hood and the Outlaws vol 2 Annual # 1. A team-up issue with Nightwing with a flashback to when Jason saw the Flying Graysons. And to their first meeting at Wayne Manor, which didn't go well because Alfred decided to give newcomer Jason Dick's bedroom because the Manor evidently suffers from a shortage of beds... <insert rolling eyes emoji here> Eminently skippable issue...

Nightwing Annual 2021

Nightwing Annual 2021 (2022). Part of the book is a flashback story. Dick, who lives at the Titans tower, talks about how Bruce fired him and got a replacement. But when Alfred asks him to visit (calling Bruce his father), he comes to see Jason, who complains about how it's impossible to live up to the standard Dick set as Robin. They take the Batmobile (with Alfred's blessing) and head out. It seems to be their first meeting, which makes RHATO vol Annual 2 # 1 obsolete.

Nightwing vol 4 # 89. A team-up with Jon Kent/Superman, starting with a few pages flashback to their first meeting when Jon was getting his powers. Dick is wearing his red New 52 Nightwing suit.

Titans (2016–2019). I think the series was pretty meh, though Annual # 1 and Special # 1 have badass Nightwing moments.

DC Rebirth Holiday Special (2016) # 1, has a nice Titans story but nothing of further importance.

Rebirth Nightwing # 1. Dick returns to being Nightwing after the Grayson run, all set to pretend to work for the Parliament of Owls (see Robin War, part of New 52).

Nightwing vol 4 # 1 (September 2017) – # 4. Better than Batman. Nightwing is working undercover with the Parliament, partnered with the new character Raptor who, it turns out, loved his mum and has a personal vendetta with Bruce Wayne because he took Dick from his roots.  

Monster men. A storyline with the villain Professor Hugo Strange in Nightwing # 5-6, Batman # 7-8, Detective Comics # 941–942 (and some more books I haven't read). Dick is temporarily transformed into a monster and later saves the day by jumping into a monster to administer some antitherapy. Nothing of future importance but some nice panels regarding how well Dick knows Bruce.

Nightwing vol 4 # 7–8 (January 2017). Rise of Raptor. Nightwing discovers that Raptor has been stalking Dick Grayson since childhood. Raptor abducts Bruce Wayne and puts him in a death trap, but Nightwing saves him when he jumps. I quite enjoy the Raptor stories, I have to say.

Nightwing vol 4 # 9 (January 2017). A team-up with Superman, who was not a guy he knew at the time since this Superman had come from the pre-Flashpoint universe and somehow merged with New 52 Superman (no, I still don't understand it). It mostly takes place in Dick's dreams. Known for a quote from Superman: "Of everyone I've met here, you're the least changed from the version I knew. Always confident, always kind, always cool. Dick Grayson – the multiversal constant."

Nightwing vol 4 # 10 (February 2017) – 14 (April 2017). Dick moves to Blüdhaven (I think people got their memories or stolen time back at some time in Rebirth, which would explain how he was new in the city here, but had lived and been a cop there (as in Nightwing vol 2) later in vol 4.) He volunteers for a program for teens at a community centre, where he meets Shawn Tsang/Defacer, an "art terrorist" Batman and Robin once fought back in the day. Nightwing works to prove she and Gorilla Grim aren't murderers.

Batman vol 3 # 16 (April 2017) Has a fun couple of pages with Bruce and Dick, Jason, Damian and Duke at Bat Burger; Bruce warns the boys to stay out of Gotham and out of Bane's way, which Dick, Jason and Damian, of course, disregard. The issue ends with Batman finding them hanging by their necks in the Batcave. In # 17, we see they survived, and Bruce has left them frozen with Superman at the Fortress of Solitude for safekeeping.

Nightwing vol 4 # 15 (April 2017). Dick and Shawn Tsang/Defacer start dating. Interlude with many guest stars whom Dick talks to about his new life in Blüdhaven.

Nightwing vol 4 # 20

Nightwing vol 4 # 16 – 20 (July 2017). Nightwing Must Die. Nice if you want to see Dick and Damian together again. Shawn is abducted while having a pregnancy scare, and Damian follows Dick to save her. (He went to Blüdhaven because he was upset people counted on Dick to become the Batman after Bruce's retirement, but later confesses he was unsure what his place in Dick's life was now.) Dick is cut with a knife made from the nth metal and see visions of himself from different realities. Villains: Professor Pyg and Doctor Simon Hurt, both from Dick and Damian's time as Batman and Robin.

Nightwing vol 4 # 21 (July 2017). Nightwing and Flash (Wally West) hang out, fights criminals and save each other's lives.

Nightwing vol 4 # 22–25 (August – September 2017). Blockbuster, the villain whose death in Nightwing vol 2 was a huge deal, is suddenly alive and   menacing Blüdhaven and Nightwing again. Dick is job-hunting and ends up taking a job as a blackjack dealer to keep an eye on Blockbuster, who had earlier sold him out to Tiger Shark, a villain Dick fought as Batman in Black Mirror. # 24–25 has a pretty badass fight, Nightwing vs a boatload of villains, and he also saves everyone by hotwiring a contraption to expand a bubble that freezes time. Shawn breaks up with Dick.

Nightwing vol 4 # 26–28 (October – November 2017). Spyral. Huntress/Helena Bertinelli, whom Dick met during the Grayson run (New 52 era), turns up. They work together on a case, ending up at the Spiral headquarter, and start a relationship. 

Batman vol 3 # 33–35 (December 2017 – January 2018). At Wayne Manor, Alfred tells Dick, Jason, Damian and Duke that Bruce intends to marry Selina while the latter two are on some mission in Khadym. Damian is upset because his mother is in Khadym, and Dick accompanies him there in the following issues. Some nice moments here and there, but I've never cared for Tom King's (the writer) grand Batman arc.

Dark Nights: Metal. Storyline 2017–2018. (including Nightwing # 29) where Batman discovers a Dark Multiverse.

Nightwing vol 4 # 30 – 34 (February 2018). Raptor's Revenge. Raptor gets involved in Nightwing’s fight with Blockbuster. Helena/Huntress breaks up with Dick. # 32 has flashback to Dick and Raptor at the circus and the death of his parents. 

Batman vol 3 # 45–47 (June - July 2018). Booster Gold goes back in time to save Bruce's parents as a wedding gift. This completely alters the past, and for some reason, Dick becomes a Batman who fights a city of Jokers with lethal violence. Some amusing wackiness about what has happened to different characters – Selina is a serial killer, Tim has a menial job, and Jason has invented tires that give tire thieves a deadly shock of electricity, but nothing of future importance.

Nightwing vs Hush

Batman: Prelude to the Wedding. Nightwing vs Hush (2018) is a great issue for a Nightwing fan. Nightwing and Superman are taking Batman for a bachelor’s party, but Hush attacks them and he and Dick are transported to another universe (where Hush perishes, which hasn’t stopped him from turning up back in the main universe). Robin vs Ra's al Ghul has a tiny Nightwing as Damian's "good angel" on his shoulder, which is a fun but minor detail.

Batgirl vol 5 # 25. Takes place just after the failed wedding between Bruce and Selina. Barbara needs a friend; Dick takes her to the empty honeymoon suit. They talk as close friends about love, and Dick comes across as quite the romantic. Quite a nice story, in my opinion.

Nightwing vol 4 # 35

Nightwing vol 4 # 35–41 (February – May 2018)The Untouchable. My favourite arc of vol 4 so far, written by Sam Humphries (I'm sure he was supposed to stay longer because he talked in an interview about wanting to bring back Dick's Uncle George from Batman vol 1 # 22, but he only wrote the one arc). Includes some flashbacks to Dick’s time as Robin, and when he was a student post-Robin. He starts a new business, Grayson cross train studio.

Nightwing vol 4 # 42 (June 2018). Enjoyable one-shot. Damian tells his pets about how Dick saved him from capture in Tokyo. They pick up a dragon on the way.

Nightwing vol 4 # 43 (June 2018). Another enjoyable one-shot, with Dick, Damian and Roy Harper/Arsenal, bickering and fighting bad guys.  

Nightwing vol 4 # 44–47 (July – October 2018). The Bleeding Edge, a story arc with malevolent virtual reality and the "dark web". Feel free to skip it.

Nightwing/Magilla Gorilla Special # 1 (October 2018). As a crossover with a Hanna-Barbera character, presumably not set in the usual DC universe... But I rather enjoyed it; it was a nice little murder mystery and lots of thinking about the circus and Dick's parents. Though I wouldn't personally rush to the cinema for a movie about The Flying Graysons with gorillas as actors...

Nightwing vol 4 # 48–49 (November 2018). Harm's way, the conclusion of the Dark Web storyline. If you enjoy Nightwing on a motorbike and being a badass fighter, why not? I can't say the story made an impact or had consequences since Dick would spend the following two years (maybe half a year, in-universe) as Ric.

The Murder Club (in Batman: Urban Legends # 19–23, November 2022 – March 2023 ). Martha and Thomas Wayne turn up in the Batcave, apparently taken from the time before they were killed. The story has Bruce, Dick, Damian and Alfred and is good if one like the family feels. (Not sure if any story in Urban Legends is supposed to be "canon" for the current continuity, but time-wise, Damian is dressed in Robin colours, Alfred is alive etc.)

Batman vol 3 # 51 (September 2018). Dick stands in as Batman while Bruce is called for jury duty.

DC's Crime of Passion # 1 (February 2020), has some Dick/Barbara, nothing you can't miss, in my opinion.

Batman vol 3 # 54–55. # 54 goes between flashbacks from when Dick was new in Wayne Manor and apparently doesn't know Bruce is Batman and Nightwing trying to cheer up Batman after Seline dumped him. In # 55, Dick is shot in the head by KG Beast (just another of Tom King's plot points to make Batman as miserable as possible). In Batman # 56-57, Batman hunts down KG Beast. Again, these issues have some pleasant character moments. Still, I'm not a fan of the overall plot or the result for Dick (I've read that Tom King was open to healing Dick magically pretty much straight away, but someone wanted to "take advantage" of the situation...)

Nightwing vol 4 Annual # 2. Partly set just after Dick was shot. Bruce tries to jog his memory by showing him a video of when he was shot, further traumatizing him and leading to him storming out.

Nightwing vol 4 # 50 (December 2018) – 74 (November 2020). Dick lives in Blüdhave as "Ric" and has forgotten everything for approximately the last 15 years. He wants nothing to do with his former family and starts dating Bea Bennett. Meanwhile, four other people use his old suits to go out as vigilantes since the real Nightwing has disappeared. Besides the shot in the head, he is brainwashed (with the help of a magical crystal, if I understood correctly) to help his Talon grandfather William Cobb make him a Talon (he is, for a few issues). The Joker later gets hold of the crystal and makes Dick believe the Joker fostered him and that he is "Dicky boy". He fights the other bats before it's all over...

Nightwing vol 4 # 74 (November 2020). Dick starts to get his memories back.

Batman vol 3 # 99 (November 2020). Bruce gives Dick his Nightwing suit back after two years of suffering (for us readers) with Ric, Talons and Joker War, but not really worth reading for that.

Dark Nights: Death Metal. Reality-shattering, complicated storyline 2020–2021 with lots of evil Batmen. I have read very little of it, but Dick is newly back from "Ric". In Justice League # 53–57 (Doom Metal parts 1–5), he and some others are physically D&E-transformed while fighting. In Dark Nights: Death Metal The Last Stories of the DC Universe, there are some nice Titans moments (also, Batman performs a one-panel "wedding" with Dick and Barbara...)

Nightwing vol 4 # 78 – > (March 2021 and onward) The current run of Nightwing starts (writer Tom Taylor, art mostly Bruno Redondo). After the relaunch Infinite Frontier, parts of Dick's pre-Flashpoint history in Blüdhaven have been restored. He has, for instance, been a cop and lives in the apartment building he bought during Nightwing vol 2. In my opinion, the run is visually great and full of lovely moments between Dick and his friends and family, but it's overly sweet and kind of boring, though many people seem to love the writing too. 

Nightwing vol 4 # 78 (2021). Dick adopts a three-legged puppy (Haley/Bitewing) and is told he inherited Alfred's billions (he is currently richer than Bruce). He now lives in the block of flats in Blüdhave that was ostensibly destroyed in Nightwing vol 2.

Nightwing vol 4 # 80. Nightwing's first meeting with the villain Heartless, who steals hearts. That was 2021, and Dick still hasn't stopped Heartless or spent a lot of time chasing him because of so many interruptions.

Nightwing vol 4 # 82

Nightwing vol 4 # 81–82. He discovers he has an older half-sister, Melinda Zucco, conceived before John and Mary were married but brought up as the daughter of Tony Zucco. She is sworn in as the new Mayor of Blüdhaven. A big part of # 82 is flashbacks to the Grayson's and Melinda's backstory. Blockbuster, who should already be dead if what happened in Nightwing vol 2 is canon again, turns up as an adversary again (is later killed in # 94)

Nightwing vol 4 # 83. Dick announces The Alfred Pennyworth Foundation to make Blüdhaven a better place for everyone. The first goal is to ensure that no one lives on the streets a month later, "because it's getting colder".

Without a net. Unpublished tales from the DC vault # 2. (2021) One shot that is possibly supposed to take place in the current continuity; there's at least nothing to contradict it. Dick takes on a task because he feels he's the most qualified to dive 30000 feet from a flying castle (?!) into a lagoon.

Robin vol 3 # 5 (2021). The four former Robins chase after Damian, who has temporarily left Lazarus Island and wants to discuss what's happening. He gives them the slip – except Dick, who catches up with Damian and gives him a birthday present. They talk a bit, and Dick lets him go, telling the others that they will tell Batman "That we trust Damian and have faith in him." So a nice issue if you're looking for a few pages of Dick and Damian interaction.

Nightwing vol 4 # 84–86. Part of the crossover Fear State, where Scarecrow wants to control Gotham City using fear gas.

Titans Academy (2021–2022). I was never interested in picking up the book, but I guess it happened parallel to the Nightwing book until the start of Dark Crisis.

Nightwing Annual 2021 (2022). A tale of two brothers, Dick and Jason, now and then (when Jason was Robin). Dick refuses to believe Jason/Red Hood is killing people again and helps him clear it up, combined with a likeable flashback with Nightwing and JasonRobin.

Nightwing vol 4 # 88 (2022). Dick Grayson is targeted at the ceremony for starting to build Haven. It's kind of a nice issue if you like seeing what a great guy Dick is and his friends rushing to his side. Dick gets a new Nightwing suit made by Mr Terrific.

Nightwing vol 4 # 89, Superman: Son of Ka-El # 9. A team-up with Jon Kent/Superman, starting with a flashback to their first meeting when Jon was getting his powers.

"The Director" (in Batman: Urban Legends # 22-23). A story with Dick and Barbara takes place in Blüdhaven; not really my cup of tea, but readable.  

Nightwing vol 4 # 90–91, Dick's building in Blüdhaven is blown up, Barbara is kidnapped, and a master assassain comes after Dick. Guest starring Wally West/The Flash, guest villain KG Beast, the gut who shot Dick back in Batman # 55.

Nightwing vol 4 # 96–97. I think it's fair to say Dick and Barbara are a couple at this stage.

Nightwing vol 3 # 98

Nightwing vol 4 # 98 (2023). Dick gets his own imp from the Fifth Dimension, Nite-Mite. He ships Dick with Starfire but teleports friends and family in to wed Dick and Barbare. (Ok, I thought it was a rather fun issue...) Introducing Olivia, daughter of Blockbuster, who sold her soul to the devil Neron; Neron is on his way to collect her soul. Nightwing & Co save her.

Nightwing vol 4 # 99. Nightwing catches Tony Zucco, who is violating parole with attempted robbery. Melinda changes her last name to Grayson-Lin.

Justice League: Road to Dark Crisis # 1, Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths # 1–7 (2022). An event where the Justice League is presumed dead (Nightwing is sure they will come back), and super criminals attack en masse. Along the way, "the Great Darkness" tries to take Nightwing as its new host, but he fights it off. At the end of the event, the Justice League disbanded. I'm pretty fed up with big events (great art, though), but Dick is a central character, the first legacy hero, and the light in the dark for Batman. It sets him up as an important leader for the superhero community going forward.

Batman vs Robin # 3 (November 2022). Damian is possessed and recruits the four former Robins to fight Batman for him in this lead-up to the event Lazarus Planet. Dick gets the sword of sin, and Batman, waiting for him to attack, thinks, "Hand-to-hand, the toughest of them all". In the end, Batman pushes Alfred (or rather, some kind of replica of Alfred from the afterlife, as a spy for the demon Nezha) on Dick's sword to get him to hesitate so Batman can knock him out. (I should say I've only read this issue of the book. Damian and Bruce fighting got old a long time ago, IMO.)

Nightwing vol 4 # 100. Heartless stages a mass breakout from Blüdhaven's private prison, which is destroyed. Nightwing talks a lot of the escapees into changing sides. The Titans come to help. Guest villain again, KG Beast. Superman and Wonder Woman asks Dick to lead – not the Justice League, which currently is disbanded – but whatever kind of protection he chooses. Dick buys the destroyed prison to build a new Titans tower there. Dick and Bruce have a heartfelt talk by Alfred's grave, though it's debatable if "I love you, Dad" is in character for Dick to say.

Nightwing vol 4 # 101–104. The Titans work together to save Olivia from Neron. Including Dick getting superpowers like that of Superman, when Neron tries to tempt him. Back-up story of Nightwing and Jon/Superman, working a case at a circus.

Titans (2023). The adult Titans are working from Blüdhaven while the Justice League is (probably very temporarily ) disbanded in this new book. It's only been a couple of issues, but I've been enjoying it so far (though I have a hard time with the pairing Beast Boy/Raven, since I know them well from the NTT ear).

Books clearly set outside the main continuity

Future State: Nightwing # 2

Future State: Nightwing # 1–2 (2021), Future State: Gotham (2021–2022) As far as I'm concerned, DC's Future State titles are stories from possible alternate futures that will never come to pass. But it was nice to see Dick written as competent and tinkering with inventions. The Future State stories continued in Future State Gotham, where Dick used the enhancing drug Brane to gain an edge in the fight against the Magistrate and assorted villains and, in the end, sacrificed himself. It didn't seem worth reading, from what I've seen.

Future State: Teen Titans # 1–2. Another possible future book, it’s not as good as the Nightwing version, IMO.

Batman Beyond (2016) vol 6. Dick is the mayor of Blüdhaven and has a daughter who becomes Batwoman in this version of Batman Beyond. To my knowledge, he is in a number of issues starting with # 25. 

Batman/Catwoman, a 12-issue Black Label miniseries (2021–2022). Yet another book set in a possible future (or maybe an alternate universe). Dick is the Police Commissioner of Gotham. I haven't read the whole series, but Dick has a minor role.

In the Dark Multiverse, you can see Dick as a Talon, die during the Judas contract or be murdered by Damian if you like. (Tales from the Dark Multiverse: Hush, Teen Titans: The Judas Contract, and Deathstroke (2016) # 50.)

Titans United (2021) and Titans United: Bloodpact (2022) was two limited series that was probably published to lure in readers that liked the Titans tv show, though it wasn't a tie-in. Pretty entertaining Titans stories with different team members. The digital-first Titans: Titans Together book (2020) also didn't connect to what's going on in other books but was all right reading.

– – –

Posted on July 16, 2023. Time will tell if it will get edited/updated in the future. 

[fantastic-nonsense]

Hi! Can you please point me to the 1990s Clark/Bruce zines you mentioned in a recent post? Also, do you know anything about the Superbat fandom history in the pre-tumblr/ao3 era? I’m really curious about it but I haven’t been able to find great sources. Thanks!!

Unfortunately I've never been a huge Superbat reader and actively participating in the pre-internet zine era was before my time in fandom, so my knowledge on that front is limited. You'd be better off contacting and searching through the University of Iowa's Special Collections Fan Culture Preservation Project (which has its own Fanlore page and is sponsored by Ao3's parent company, the Organization for Transformative Works), the University of California Riverside's Fanzine Collection, or trawling through old Livejournal communities tbh.

In terms of fandom history, the very short version is that it was fairly popular in the Silver and Bronze Age (partially as a result of the World's Finest comics), briefly went largely dormant in the late 1980s/1990s after the initial post-Crisis status quo was that Bruce and Clark weren't close friends (and then Clark was dead for a hot minute), and came back with a roaring vengeance in the 2000s after Morrison's+Waid's JLA runs did the legwork of making everyone friends again and Superman/Batman started publishing, and hasn't left fandom consciousness since. Adaptationally, it suffered a small hit in overall popularity when Smallville was big (caving to the Clex shippers) but was still fairly popular in DCAU fandom circles at the same time. There's an interesting Superbat history retrospective here, if you're interested, which mostly traces Bruce and Clark's depiction in comics from the 80s until the 2010s but also provides some personal commentary and notes on fan speculation+letters to the editor that appeared in those older issues.

Sidenote: a major reason that you can't find fandom histories on DC the way you can on Marvel is because their archives aren't open to academics and the general public the way Marvel's are. There is no DC equivalent of Marvel: The Untold Story, for example. We have quite a bit of knowledge on the Golden Age era because of external sources, and there's a lot of information about the post-internet fandom, but unfortunately there's just not a ton of internal or fandom-centered sources for the in-between. And the documentaries we do have usually focus on official/company-centered events rather than fandom ones. I happen to anecdotally know some of that history, hence why I felt confident correcting people on that post, but you're right that there's just not a lot of "good" sources to be found on the issue outside of old blog posts.

You also have to understand that until the 2000s and the rise of modern fandom culture, "slash shipping" in most fandoms (that weren't Star Trek, anyway) was basically all underground, so the histories we do have are largely oral histories from oldfans and zines that have survived from that era. Slashfics were also regularly deleted from fandom archives at whim whenever content crackdowns happened (said content crackdowns were one of the major reasons AO3 was created and eventually became the main internet repository for fanfiction, btw). So unless you have access to the zines or those authors have uploaded/re-uploaded their work to somewhere that hasn't been subject to purges, site takedowns, or the general ravages of time...a lot of that history has been lost, unfortunately.

I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help!

[zahri-melitor]

hi hello if it's not too much trouble, what comics would you recommend for someone trying to study the batfamily characters and dynamics for a project? I don't know which writers to avoid or which runs are considered bad characterization. I know this varies with opinion but you seem super familiar with the differences between fanon and canon stuff. don't worry about keeping the list short or anything, I don't have a problem with reading a lot

Honestly, this is a ‘how long is a piece of string’ question, but I can give you some pointers.

Which 'family' characters are you looking at, and which dynamics do you want? Because the thing is, this varies significantly over time. What I can do for you is roughly discuss a bunch of different eras, and what's good content to look at in each of them.

A shortcut - you're often well served by looking at a Gotham-wide Event during the period you're interested in. Sure, people often have some objections to some of the characterisation, but if you're looking at how characters interact, they're the best place to see lots of variations.

In addition 'bad characterisation' is largely in the eye of the beholder. There's actually less agreement on what is and isn't 'bad characterisation' than you might think - it depends on who you're talking to and what stories they like. Characterisation with comics characters is best thought of as a sliding spectrum - there's a range that most people will accept, and when characters go outside it people start getting unhappy. I'll try to note major shifts or universe resets or retcons along the way though.

Pre-Crisis:

Look there is very little in pre-crisis you need to look at for this. Sometimes people will pull stuff forward for Dick and Jason as Robin or Barbara as Batgirl, but largely things stand without this.

Post-Crisis:

I'm happy to walk you through post-crisis up to 2011. I'm still getting a handle on 2011 to present myself.

The Early Days: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Robin, Barbara as Batgirl

In the beginning, there was Batman. One day he went to Haly's Circus where he saw two acrobats falling and their devastated son...you know how this one goes.

Pretty much everything set in this period is flashback stories, so they frequently retread the same ground over and over. Want to see the Graysons fall? You're in luck! Choose one of the more than a dozen versions! (I'm not going to list them all even though I like many)

Quality stories looking at this period include:-

Batman Year One (1986) - Batman #404-407. I am recommending this, yes, even though it's Frank Miller, because it gets referenced a lot. It's a decent retelling and the best work Miller's ever done for the Bat books by a long shot. Bruce's origin story.

Robin: Year One (2000) - Chuck Dixon and Scott Beatty. This is probably my preferred version of early Bruce and Dick stories, and it's conveniently got a sequel in...

Batgirl: Year One (2003) - Chuck Dixon and Scott Beatty. Barbara's origin as Batgirl and the only one worth reading. These two update the Dick and Barbara as Robin and Batgirl dynamics into post-Crisis.

Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet (1997) - Bruce Canwell. This is a single issue about the 'final exam' test Dick took to become Robin. I really enjoy it.

Robin & Batman (2021) - Jeff Lemire. A very recent update of early Dick as Robin. If you want something recent and quick, this is the pick. The characterisation is good but I have a bunch of quibbles with the details.

World's Finest: Batman/Superman (2022) - Mark Waid & Dan Mora. Here's a current ongoing for you! A rarity in that is set reasonably late Dick's time as Robin, and it also doesn't repeat identical beats to those above. Lots of Bruce and Dick, strong Silver Age vibes in relationships, and a lot of fun. A great intro to the wider DC simultaneously too.

Robin II: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Jason as Robin, Barbara as...around

Honestly this is a period I'm weaker on. Jason's post-crisis run as Robin is pretty compact: Batman #401-428 and 'Tec #568-582. Jim Starlin's the writer who wanted to kill Jason off.

Batman #408-411 (1987) - Max Collins. The original post-Crisis 'Dick Becomes Nightwing' and 'Jason becomes Robin' story.

The Diplomat's Son - Batman #424 (1988) - Jim Starlin. This is the issue everyone talks about, where Felipe Garzonas dies. You should read it just to understand the debate, if nothing else.

A Death in the Family - Batman #426-428 (1988) - Jim Starlin. Jason's death.You should read this if you want to understand the dynamics surrounding these events and what actually happened.

The New Teen Titans - look I can't get my head around the numbering of NTT, but if you want to go into this there are eleventy million guides. NTT is very popular. This is Dick as Nightwing during this period, Marv Wolfman and George Perez working together, and considered by people who like Nightwing during this period as the definitive version. Jason appears in a few issues.

Nightwing Year One (2005) - Nightwing #101-106, Chuck Dixon. Now this is going to be extremely controversial, but I do actually recommend people read Nightwing Year One. It's a retcon, but it's an important retcon because it lays out the dynamics of Jason's time as Robin as comics writers have changed them to be following his death. If you want to see how comics writes Jason as the 'angry' and 'risky' Robin following his death, this is the most compact way to see how the narrative changed.

Batgirl Special #1 (1988) - Barbara Randall. Barbara's last appearance as Batgirl. Randall is Barbara's best contemporary Batgirl writer, and this is a loving sendoff for a character who was about to get shredded.

The Killing Joke (1988) - Alan Moore. You should probably read it. Barbara is shot in the spine. However if you want to skip it that's completely fine as the relevant beats have been retold almost as many times as the Graysons have fallen.

Gotham Knights #43-45 (2003) - Scott Beatty. This is probably the best telling of the fallout of Jason's death on the family, particularly Barbara's reaction. If you want Batfam dynamics this is what you should look at.

New Beginnings: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Steph as Spoiler

This is an interesting period in that it's the first threads of what we now call the Batfamily, but they're only just starting to come together as Tim picks each one up. (No, seriously. This era is 'Tim meets people and works with them')

Also as will be the case for a while from here on, at least 50% of all content is written by Chuck Dixon. Now Dixon has his downsides - he's notoriously a conservative homophobe and his views can be seen in the text quite frequently, but he is really good at writing relationships between characters, and he loves a crossover. If you love the modern Batfam, you do have to acknowledge Dixon for his work.

A Lonely Place of Dying (1989) Batman #440-442, New Titans #60-61 - Marv Wolfman & George Perez. Tim's origin story. Very clear on the outset dynamics between Bruce and Dick.

Identity Crisis (1990) Batman #455-457 - Alan Grant. Tim's first night out as Robin in his own costume, plus early dynamics between Bruce & Tim. A tear jerker.

To the Father I Never Knew (1992) Batman #480 - Alan Grant. If you want to actually understand the foundation of Jack and Tim's relationship and how he contrasts it with his relationship with Bruce - look no further.

Robin III (1992) - Chuck Dixon. A very early Tim team-up with Huntress. This is a good place to start for how her relationship with the other Bats evolves in Gotham.

'Tec #647-649 (1992) - Chuck Dixon. Steph's original time out as Spoiler. Again foundational dynamics.

Oracle Year One (1996) Batman Chronicles #5, John Ostrander and Kim Yale. The story of how Barbara became Oracle. Stunning. Essential.

Knightfall: Bruce as Batman, JPV as Azrael and Batman, Dick as Nightwing and Batman, Tim as Robin, everyone else keeping out the way

Knightfall is huge and messy and all over the place but there is magic in here. You just have to dig. Parts I particularly like for family dynamics:-

Batman: Sword of Azrael (1992) - Dennis O'Neil. This is an excellent intro to John-Paul Valley, and get comfortable, because this is what Denny's going to write for the next 10 years.

Batman #488 (1993) - Doug Moench. JPV starts working at Wayne Corp. Tim is assigned to teach him the ropes as a crimefighter in Gotham.

Batman #500 (1993) - Doug Moench. JPV becomes Batman. Dick turns up to complain to Tim about Bruce being insufferable. It's all here.

Bloodbath #1 (1993) - Dan Raspler. This is a terrible comic BUT it also contains some gold dynamics between JPV, Dick and Tim.

Knightsend (1994) - team written. Bruce, Dick and Tim work together to help Bruce rehab from his injury and take down JPV. Legends of the Dark Knight #63 in particular is stunning.

Prodigal (1994) - team written. Dick as Batman and Tim as his Robin. The final issue, Robin #13, has Bruce and Dick's reconciliation over both the fight when Dick became Nightwing AND their fight after Jason died. Essential.

Welcome to the Family: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Steph as Spoiler

I will fight to convince you that this is the first true 'Batfam'. Everything prior to this is Bruce and his Robin, with occasional associates. This is where it goes from the Dynamic Duo to a network who intersect constantly.

Writers: It's a lot of Doug Moench and Chuck Dixon still.

Nightwing: Alfred's Return and Batman #521 (1995) - Alan Grant & Doug Moench. Alfred quit during Knightfall due to what Bruce was doing to himself. This is how Dick got him to come home, and the reunion.

Contagion (1996) - team written. The Event where Gotham gets the Clench (aka Ebola). Massive teamup storyline featuring Bruce, Dick, Tim, JPV, Helena, Selina, and Barbara.

Legacy (1997) - team written. Oh no, it's the Clench Round Two. Here we go again. Basically the same team, but JPV doesn't get invited after he proved he'd forgotten was a fax machine was last event, and Helena gets a more significant role.

Robin important family issues during this period: #17 (with Helena), #29-30 (with Barbara), #34 (with Helena), #35 (with Steph), #45 (with Jack Drake), #47 (with Dick)

Nightwing important family issues during this period: #6 (with Tim), #7 (with Babs), #13-14 (with Bruce), #16 (with Babs)

Birds of Prey important family issues during this period: Birds of Prey Manhunt, as it sets the tone for Barbara and Helena's relationship for a WHILE.

No Man's Land: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Helena as Huntress and the Bat, Barbara as Oracle, Steph as Spoiler, Cass as Batgirl

The earthquake where everything goes wrong. The most notable addition to the writing pool is Greg Rucka. Honestly this is a 'so many parts of this are worthwhile, read it all' sort of period, but to help navigate there's a handful of really important points:-

Nightwing #20 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. The Dick, Babs and Tim reunion issue during Cataclysm. The world's fallen apart but they're back together.

Nightwing #25 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Dick takes Tim trainsurfing

Brotherhood of the Fist (1998) - Chuck Dixon. This is a teamup with Connor Hawke involving Bruce, Dick and Tim. I love the dynamics here.

Huntress/Spoiler Special - Blunt Trauma (1998) - Chuck Dixon. The one Helena and Steph team up during Cataclysm. Get a dynamic you won't see anywhere else.

'Tec #725 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Dick tells Bruce that he's going to become a cop.

'Tec #727 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Another Dick, Babs and Tim teamup to take on Firefly.

Mark of Cain (1999) - Kelley Puckett. Cass's intro story.

Birds of Prey #8 (1999) - Chuck Dixon. Dick and Babs visit Haly's Circus

Robin #67 (1999) - Chuck Dixon. Tim and Dick break into No Man's Land.

Legends of the Dark Knight #120 (1999) - Greg Rucka. Team reunion in NML at the Clocktower.

Nightwing #38-39 (1999) - Chuck Dixon - Babs looks after an injured Dick in the Clocktower.

Legends of the Dark Knight #125 (1999) - Greg Rucka. Bruce and Jim finally discuss their issues. Barbara and Tim wait upstairs.

Endgame (1999) - various. Whole team works to track down Joker and some kidnapped babies on Christmas Eve.

A New City, A New Team: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Cass as Batgirl, Steph as Spoiler

This is the final Chuck Dixon era, the Rucka & Brubaker run on Batman and 'Tec, Devin Grayson on Gotham Knights, and probably my favourite era of comics ever. It's hit after hit after hit. Pick up any comic here. You won't be disappointed.

Major highlights not to miss:

Gotham Knights #1-12 (2000) - Devin Grayson. GK is my favourite Bat anthology book ever, but this run includes Transference. The overarching plot is Bruce analysing his team in a series of case notes. Unmissable.

Hunt for Oracle (2000) - Chuck Dixon. The US government tries to track Oracle down. Babs, Dick and Dinah make sure they fail.

Officer Down (2001) - various. Jim Gordon is shot. This is the consequences as people search for his attacker.

Joker Last Laugh (2001) - various. Joker thinks he is about to die and breaks out of the Slab. Chaos ensues. This is the one where everyone thinks Croc kills Tim, and reacts accordingly.

Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive (2002) - various. Bruce has been pushing everyone away for a while, so when he's accused of murder, they must ask the question, did he do it? Everyone tries to solve the mystery of who killed Vesper Fairchild, and Bruce goes through one of his 'am I Bruce or am I Batman' periods.

Batgirl #18 & #20 (2001) - Kelley Puckett. Cass' first team ups with Tim and Steph respectively.

Batman/Huntress: Cry for Blood (2000) - Greg Rucka. THE definitive Batfam Huntress book.

Hush It Looks Like War: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Cass as Batgirl, Steph as Spoiler and Robin

Among the drama of Murderer/Fugitive, almost every single book gets a new writer. Jon Lewis takes Robin followed by Bill Willingham, Devin Grayson takes Nightwing, Birds of Prey gets fills until Gail Simone picks it up, Dylan Horrocks takes over Batgirl, Jeph Loeb writes Hush on Batman, Scott Beatty takes Gotham Knights. Personally I endorse basically all these runs but Grayson on Nightwing is controversial.

Hush (2003) Batman #608-619 - Jeph Loeb. Famous for a reason, this is a Bruce story that touches on his relationships with almost EVERY major character in his life (Cass and Steph miss out).

Gotham Knights - Scott Beatty. I don't know what to pick here but #47-49 is a team story of Bruce, Dick, Tim and Cass following Bane to a Kobra stronghold which shows off the developed family-like relationship between the 4 at this point.

Robin - Jon Lewis. Your highlights here are Tim and Steph on a date together (#111), and the 16th Birthday Story (#116-120) because it's essential to understanding where Tim and Bruce are at.

Robin - Bill Willingham. Jack finds out Tim is Robin. Tim quits. Steph becomes Robin. It's an essential arc.

Nightwing - Grayson. This is widely disliked but #81 is a great Dick, Bruce and Cass issue.

Birds of Prey - Simone. Helena joins Barbara on the Birds of Prey. They very, very slowly work through their issues with each other.

Batgirl - Horrocks. #38, Steph and Cass play tag. #45, Cass tries on Barbara's old costume. #50, Bruce drugs himself and Cass with Soul and they fight. #54, Barbara and Cass argue over her reading ability.

And then lurking in the background...War Games hits and tears the Batfam apart, with a doubletap from Identity Crisis.

Leaving Gotham: Bruce as Batman, Dick out of costume, Tim as Robin, Cass as Batgirl, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress annnnd Jason as Red Hood

Steph is dead. Barbara and Helena leave Gotham for Metropolis. Tim and Cass move to Bludhaven. Dick runs off to join the mob. And in Gotham, Red Hood appears.

Writers: Well we've added Judd Winick on Batman, and now have Andersen Gabrynch on Batgirl. Gotham Knights is now mostly A.J. Lieberman and no longer a good Batfam book (it's now a Hush book). 'Tec honestly isn't worth it during this period. Willingham on Robin has a handful of decent issues to start out then increasingly gets weirdly conservative with some very odd plotlines.

Fresh Blood (2005) Robin #132-133, Batgirl #58-59 - Willingham & Gabrynch. This is a Tim and Cass team up as they move to Bludhaven and mourn together.

Under the Red Hood (2005) - Batman #635-650. You know what this is. It's the Jason returns story.

Nightwing - Grayson. #100 - a strong reflection on Dick's past plus the most heartbreaking part of the Dick/Babs breakup as Dick just runs from all his problems. #110. Tim and Dick meet in Bludhaven and fail to tell each other all the bad things happening in their lives. #112. Dick and Helena run into each other both undercover in the mob. #117. Dick finally talks to Bruce about Blockbuster, and proposes to Babs.

Robin - Willingham. #134 is the pick of the bunch - Bruce offers to adopt Tim and Tim reflects on his time as Robin, though it's a solid little story out to #138 as the truth about Uncle Eddie comes out.

Birds of Prey - Simone. #76, the Babs side of the breakup. #83-84, Helena with the mob and encountering Dick. #90, Helena gives Bruce the new compiled mob data handbook and Bruce compliments her.

Batgirl - Gabrynch. This is a strong well loved run for the build up to Cass' final fight with Shiva, but for Batfam you can't go past #67, when Cass reunites with Babs. Also Cass hallucinates Steph twice in this run (#61 & #72).

Then Infinite Crisis arrives and we all move a year into the future.

One Year Later: Bruce is Batman, Dick is Nightwing, Tim is Robin, Jason is Red Hood, Damian arrives, Cass eventually returns to Batgirl

At this point Barbara and Helena are largely doing their own thing with the Birds of Prey and won't return to the Batfam until Reborn.

New writers all around! Adam Beechen and Fabian Nicieza on Robin, Marv Wolfman and Peter Tomasi on Nightwing, Adam Beechen on Batgirl, Grant Morrison on Batman and Paul Dini on Detective Comics.

Face the Face (2006) Batman #651-654, 'Tec #817-820 - James Robinson. The Bruce and Tim story that set up Tim's adoption.

Batman and Son (2006) Batman #655-658 - Grant Morrison. Damian's introduction to the family.

Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul (2008) - various. Ra's tries to kidnap Damian to steal his body. Bruce, Dick and Tim go to rescue him. Dick and Tim's subplot involves the highest point of their brotherhood as Dick talks Tim out of trying resurrect his lost dead.

Robin - Beechen. #156, the suicide prevention issue, for Tim and Dick. #163, Tim and Bruce on their first Father's Day. #165, Tim and Bruce working on a car together.

Robin - Nicieza. Steph's return as Spoiler. #177, where Jason thinks he can recruit Tim (and fails miserably).

Nightwing - Wolfman. You know what? #117-122, the 'Jason dresses as Nightwing and harasses Dick and turns into a tentacle monster' saga. Does everyone like to say it's out of character? Yes. Is it Jason being just as annoying as he will proceed to be all the way to 2011? Also yes. That's Jason's post-Crisis character.

Nightwing - Tomasi. Freefall, #140-146. This is just a beautiful encapsulation of Dick's many connections, of his teamwork with Bruce and Tim, and of what makes him tick.

Heart of Hush (2008) 'Tec #846-850 - Paul Dini. The premise is ridiculous, but it's about Bruce and Selina, and about Dick and Tim helping track down Hush.

Batgirl (2008) - Adam Beechen. Beechen after squiffing it with the Evil Cass saga, gets to undo the damage to Cass's character and return her to the family. I think it's a pretty successful job, despite Dick spending the entire book holding the idiot ball so someone can be unsupportive. Cass gets adopted. Tim and Barbara never lose their faith in her.

Battle for the Cowl: EVERYONE IS FREEFORM

Everyone will tell you this is all horribly out of character. They're wrong. Come for Fabian Nicieza doing hard work to actually set up characters in the places they need to be for Reborn.

Battle for the Cowl: the Network (2009) - Fabian Nicieza. Oracle and the Birds of Prey have returned to Gotham but for reasons they're not calling themselves the Birds of Prey, so it's the Network.

Oracle The Cure (2009) - Kevin VanHook. Early set up for Wendy Harris' future plot. Babs gets the mentoring itch again.

Azrael: Death's Dark Knight (2009) - Fabian Nicieza. A new Azrael for a splinter faction of the Order of St Dumas appears. Dick and Babs are immediately suspicious (and Dick has to be talked out of immediately kicking the Azrael's butt just on the SUSPICION it might be JPV).

Also the main event books happen and everyone yells at each other a lot about who should be Batman.

Batman Reborn: Bruce is missing, Dick is Batman, Tim is Red Robin, Damian is Robin, Jason is Red Hood, Barbara is Oracle, Steph is Batgirl, Cass is Black Bat

New titles! New writers! Things all over the place! People who like Jason are going to claim all of Jason's appearances are once again out of character, but Jason fans claim that about every time Jason breathes outside of UTRH, Lost Days and a small handful of very select stories after Flashpoint. I'm just saying, villain Jason is pretty consistently irritating between 2007 and 2011.

Red Robin #1-12 (2009) - Chris Yost. Not only Tim's new costume arc, but a great look at Tim's centrality as a character to the Batfam in the number of contacts he calls in at the end of the run.

Red Robin #17 & #25 (2010) - Fabian Nicieza. Tim and Cass working together as siblings and backing each other up.

Batman & Robin #20-22 (2011) - Peter Tomasi. I would strongly argue this is the best arc in B&R with the best characterisation.

Batman & Robin (2009) - Grant Morrison. Look, a lot of people like the foundation of Dick and Damian's relationship found here. Also Jason shows up to be a pain.

Streets of Gotham (2009) - Paul Dini. There's a bunch of good storylines in this anthology book, but #5-6 with Dick, Helena and Kirk Langstrom is one I particularly like.

Batman #703 (2010) - Fabian Nicieza. The best Dick, Damian and Tim team-up issue of Reborn.

Gates of Gotham (2011) - Scott Snyder. The masterpiece of Batfamily content. Dick, Tick, Damian and Cass all feature in this and all 6 possible relationships are shown in different parts.

Batgirl #3-5, #17 (2009) - Bryan Q. Miller. Damian and Steph team ups, plus a look into the tension in the Dick and Barbara relationship at the time.

Birds of Prey #10 (2011) - Gail Simone. Barbara discusses her new realignment of how she's working as Oracle and focusing on the Bats.

The Black Mirror (2010) 'Tec #871-881 - Scott Snyder. Some of the best writing of Dick as Batman during this period, and a look into his relationships with Jim Gordon, Barbara, and Tim particularly.

The Return Home (2010) - various. Bruce comes back to Gotham after his 'death' and checks in on everyone.

[maxwell-grant]

Any thoughts on the second Mr.Terrific?

I like him quite a bit. I'm not super well read on the guy but he feels like a character Jonathan Hickman would have made a star out of by now if he worked for DC, or at least an extremely Hickman-esque set of ingredients. He is not just an omnicapable genius Great Man of science and technology with spiritual or emotional or moral blindspots, but an omnicapable-yet-compromised Great Man who defines himself around an ideal and statement of intent that can clash with the practical reality around him. He quite literally wears on his sleeve his own arc words to be repeated for emphasis.

And there is a bit of a tension in his composition also in that, he wears the most straightforward possible motto taken straight from a Golden Age guy, he's defined one of the purest distilled ideals a superhero can wear ever put on paper, and has an origin about him taking up superhero work as a newfound and sole meaning in his life, but he is not a traditional superhero, he is a Doc Savage kind of guy modeled after the heroes of the bastardverse across the street. Much of his origin is defined around the fact that he is just not operating on the same wavelength everyone else is. He is very much not a bastard, it is important that he isn't, but still, Batman would not get invited to the Illuminati, where as Michael might. He helped form a rip-off of it, even.

But to me he also feels like a character who still needs some work put into him to reach something really great. He's a guy with a killer design and a pretty good origin and sometimes occasionally a cool personality and generally is very useful to have around as a handyman gluing plots together, but who always seems to sit at a weird middleground between Reed Richards, Tony Stark, and Not-Batman that keeps him rather undefined. In his present state he is a plug-and-play character to explain plots as they happen, rather than the center of uniquely interesting things himself. He sits at a middleground now where he is too big to be street level, but he's not powerful or big enough to save the world on his own, so he's forced to fill out the stuff in between usually in mediocre spy or tech guy roles.

On the other hand, that malleability can also be a strong point to him, the fact that you can insert him anywhere from detective stories to scaled all the way up to managing a Justice League. He has legacy baggage but he is not a guy you really need to explain, you can put him in the big leagues and big stories and he explains himself as is. And it seems that people kinda get that he should be a bigger deal than he actually is, that he is open to bigger and better and more interesting things to be done with him, but there needs to be more put into it. He needs his own set-ups. He is a cool design and a cool guy and within those, really cool ideas waiting to happen.

I have been really loving the set photos that have been coming out of James Gunn's Superman and particularly the ones with Mr.Terrific, it's making him click with me a bit more and I think the movie might be what pushes me to outright love him. Given Gunn's statement comparing Holt and the other heroes to workplace buddies, he just makes intuitive sense as a guy who does things with Superman at the weird sci-fi superhero job which they both have whether it's to knock asteroids out of orbit together or deal with runaway super dogs. There is a pretty lovely World's Finest kind of symmetry to them that I really hope to see expanded on.

[daemonmage]

Hi I’m back and here to talk about Issue 4 of World’s Finest:

Hal is being mind controlled and my god is it funny.

The light from the ring!!! Clark being pissed!! Just amazing!

And the Bruce gets grabbed and Nezha talks shit. Also Hal coming up with a mech is so good!!! The backgrounds are so beautiful!!!

And then Bruce pisses him off and he just throws Bruce?! He’s just tossed it’s so funny.

Supergirl and Robin find out how to defeat Nezha and I like how the artstyle feels a bit different in these scenes. Like softer almost.

Robin gets lost in time.

And the finally my favorite scene! Batman and Superman will Hal’s ring off his finger and FUSE?!

They do a full dragon ball fusion help!? It’s just so crazy I love this comic series. If you’re ever interested read them. My rants do not do them justice.