#I really wasn’t rooting for her in s5

[bronx-bomber87]

Merry Christmas Eve to all who celebrate it :) We’ve reached S5. Which is unreal. It shouldn’t be since I’ve been writing these for 7 plus months now and yet ha. I remember BUZZING for this ep. Then being in shock It actually happened. This entire season felt like a gift from the writers.

The long awaited reward for the slow burn. Although I enjoyed every moment of that slow burn. Was very happy to get to this place I will say. You thought Tim’s brain was broken last ep? It’s about to be obliterated haha Once again some long gifs I’ll make to get it all in. Might be the theme for this season LOL I fit everything in that I could this ep was wall to wall moments. Let’s get going.

5x01 Double Down

We start out on a glorious high. Lucy is dreaming about kissing Tim. Making out really. Not only that but she is grinning like crazy as she does. Sure she’s had dreams like this before about him. No doubt in my mind she’s had naughty dreams about this man. (and vice versa let’s be honest) But now she had something real to dream about. A tangible moment. Didn't take long for that to take root in her subconscious ha.

Also in this dream we get another lovely angle to that kiss. It's like we got two first kisses everyone. It's glorious. They sure started this season off with spoiling us right away. He looks like he’s about to eat her face in this dream version. This is why she’s smiling so much heh I love having both angles. Real and dream version.

I like how the dream version is little spicier. Like this is her dream version of that kiss. How he’s cupping her face in this one. She wanted him to devour her like that. She would’ve been happy to be his meal for the night. Also showing Lucy has it SOO bad for him. Forgetting she has a blah BF at the moment. Chris who? Unfortunately as it gets good a knock startles her awake.

It’s Tamara waking her up. Lucy is legit jarred from her dream. We watch her struggle to come back down to earth. Her messy hair and reaction are too funny. This one of my all time fav Tamara/Lucy moments. She has to give Lucy a hard time about the kiss. Wouldn’t be her if she didn’t. It’s too cute. Lucy goes into mom mode about school. Telling her about Rosalind’s trial shutting the city down. Her normal route will be closed.

Tamara mirroring her going into protective daughter mode. Asking her if she wants her to skip class? I love her always wanting to put Lucy first. She tells her no. She will be ok and no where near Rosalind anyways. She is bound to the station with Tim anyways. Waiting for their OP to jump off. Tamara asking if it’s for the UC thing from the other night? Lucy confirms this.

Tamara’s giving her crap about the kiss. Lucy being defensive saying didn’t mean anything. Oh yes nothing. You weren’t just dreaming about it or anything…Mmhm…Then she says her legendary line. ‘Make out. Stop crime. That totally tracks.' LOL I love her so much. Lucy tells her to go to school. Tamara replies in kind telling her to have fun at work. With her boss. Who she kissed…

We then switch to Tim talking to Angela about said kiss. Now let me say how giddy it makes me he came to Angela about it. Yes she’s his best friend but he didn’t used to be this open with her. She had to pull teeth in 2x11 even when he asked for her help. This is a far more open Tim Bradford than we’ve seen before. He starts this convo then goes into full denial. Babe, you started this and she has great Chenford radar. You weren’t going to fool her. Not in the slightest. I love how she doesn’t let up the entire convo. Smirking this entire time through out it as well.

Asking how much did they practice? LOL Tim telling her it was just a kiss. No big deal. Angela’s reply is epic. ‘Then why are we talking about it?’ Boom. Mic drop. She is iconic in this scene. Sounds like he’s trying to convince himself more than anything else. Tim deflecting saying 'What if it wasn’t just a kiss for her?' Really asking 'Do you think she has feelings for me too?' Angela follows up asking if Lucy might have feelings for him? He looks so deflated when he says ‘No..’ Thinking no way Lucy could have feelings for him. Ugh break my heart Tim. When Angela gives me more logic it makes him said.

Telling him she probably saw the kiss as just as a weird work thing then. The defeated way he says ‘Right....’ Angela picks up on it immediately. Hence her next question to him. The way he says ‘No!' to her feelings question. He’s SO defensive. Not telling at all…Do you even believe yourself Timothy? His voice gets all high pitched. Just like Lucy does when she gets nervous about her feelings. He does his spiel about them both being in relationships. Being her boss. etc. Angela crushes it with some more solid logic. ‘All true. Not what I asked.’ God I love her. Also let’s note how deliciously tight Tim’s shirt is in this scene. Didn’t think I would let that slide by did you? Mmm.

We rejoin them in the interrogation room. Tim complaining how greasy his double is. How he hates it LOL Lucy comes in looking like a stunner. Notice Tim agreeing with Aaron’s assessment of how good she looks. She then mentions regretting the choice of thong idea LMAO I love her. Also you are going to be the death of him Lucy Chen haha What are you doing to this man? They received a call earlier and now waiting for a follow up to where to meet.

The phone goes off and Lucy gives the most ‘ in love’ look at him. She couldn’t adore that man standing in front of her more if she tried. Tim answers and Hajek tells them to meet his guys at an air strip. I love the silent communication between them. Always adore that about them. Lucy tries to get them more time saying they can’t just up and leave. How she looks requires lots of suitcases and precision.

Swing and miss sadly. Tells them to meet them there or end up in a coffin. Angela is scrambling because leaving the state is a whole other thing. Aaron saves them by letting them use his private jet for him and Angela to follow in. Lucy says they can follow the flight plan the pilot has to submit. Angela is relaxing a bit and decides to let them proceed. Aaron cracks me up asking about caviar selection such a goob. Says he'll just get an assortment. Ha I love him.

So begins them “pretending” to be a couple. When really it’s just them having no restrictions or boundaries on them. Getting to look, touch, flirt, and be free with one another. Under the guise of UC. It’s glorious really. I felt my brain stopped working multiple times in this episode the first time. Just like Tim. Lucy starts off STRONG explaining why they're late. Pulling Tim to her saying 'Their quickie wasn’t so quick.' Hot damn. (I can see this being a reason for them now a days too hehe)

They’re like magnets instantly drawn to each other. Gah I love it so much. I remember it being so hard to focus. Because they had their arms all wrapped around each other from the word go. The way they are all over each other in this hanger scene. It’s their normal banter but heightened. I’ll never be over her hand resting on his hip. His arms wrapped around her. The easy rhythm they quickly fall into. Almost like being a couple is the most natural thing in the world for them. I mean look at them. They are not struggling to sell this one bit.

The way they’re attached at the hip. Swaying together like they’re in their own world. Which what else is new with them? This is par for the course when they're together. They’re always in their own world when they banter. Only right now they’re allowed to touch and hold each other as much as they want to. And trust me they want to. It felt like I was dreaming as I watched this portion. Truly in a daze. I had to rewind and pay attention to the SL. More than once...

The smiles and the swaying gah they get me. They basically mirror the smiles and swaying from 5x12. Because they’re just as in love right now as they are 11 eps down the road. I love Lucy’s face when they get interrupted LOL It was the biggest scowl. Like excuse me you weren’t invited to this party.

I truly think they nailed this because it was their shot. They thought this was their only chance to be with each other without any restrictions. So they went for it as we can see. We all lapped it up like it was the last bit of water in the desert haha I’m giddy as he tells her to get on the damn plane. It's so cute. Lucy cannot keep her hands off him from the minute they start this. Tim is more than happy to oblige. Gah this is cloud 9 goodness.

The goodies continue on the plane as they head towards Vegas. I don’t know about you but first time I watched this portion I couldn’t focus. I was obsessed with her sitting on his lap basically. Leaning into him. Not only that but the start to Tim’s obsession we all love with her thighs. How he has his hand rests there naturally. Like his hand has found it's new home happily. Lastly their hands. I remember focusing so much on just their hands I missed dialogue. Had to rewind it to hear what was going on LOL

If you weren’t just as distracted by their hands and PDA you’re a lying liar who lies haha Or you don’t ship them. In that case why you reading this review right now? Ha I think they were both nervous about this being out of state. The hands weren’t necessary in the least. I think they were unconsciously grounding each other.

Finding comfort in each other’s touch. Also I think them being this way was incredibly natural for them. Just like everything else has been their entire relationship. Why the slow burn was so necessary. So when we got here it was basically a flawless crossover to this. Touching each other as much as possible and I love it.

Lucy cracks me up trying to get info on their job. Saying right now it's the world’s most boring bachelor party LOL Tim saying this is a job not a party. They finally tell them what their job is since they’re airborne. They ask them if they know who Roman Krupka is? They say nope. Apparently he imports Heroin to the Monarch cartel. Lucy mentions so the competition?

He continues on saying ‘Something like that.' That Roman is paranoid of computers. Doesn’t keep a written record anywhere. That the details of his operation exist in one place. One man called ‘The Brain .’ His name is Leonard Madris. Tim makes the comment isn’t is dangerous for one man to carry all that? They say yes and he’s usually kept under heavy guard. Never leaves the compound.

The reason they’re headed to Vegas is because of him. They’re received a solid tip he will be there this weekend. They find out their plan in this. They’re to take out the guards while he grabs Madris. Then they’re gonna torture the man for every detail. Then they’ll take over the business by doing so. Lucy is so cocky in her reply. I love it. Saying sounds like they should be getting paid more heh. Lyon tells them tough. So charming...

We rejoin them finding out Rosalind has escaped through Lyon. This is one of my fav moments of the episode. The way he immediately grabs her hand. Trying to ground her in this moment. Keeping her close to him so he can show her he’s there. Reassure her that she isn’t alone in hearing this. It’s just instinctual him doing this. Knowing this would be a massive trigger that would throw her off kilter. Trying to keep Lucy there with him. To stop her from losing focus and spiraling out.

Also the way Tim looks up at her. Checking in trying to get her to silently communicate with him. He needs to know she’s ok. Protective Tim is one of my favs. That immediate need to shield and protect her. Rosalind is a huge trauma trigger for her. He wants so badly to help her with this news. Look at how her hand is clutching his shoulder at first. He starts rubbing his thumb on her hand. Trying to get her to unclench. (Wasn't able to fit that one in but he does it.)

Tim being her calm in the raging storm she has going on right now. Her constant in this moment. Which is exactly what she needs. This man is so soft for her I’ll never be over it everyone. Tim isn’t able to get a read on her. She won’t look down at him. So he asks how long till they land? Lyon says 15 minutes. Tim tells them perfect. His cover being the mile high club. It’s his way of getting them a private moment. He needs to check in on her and he can’t do that with them around.

They head back and Lucy goes into full spiral mode. This is why he wanted to do this. She starts to be taken over by her fear and PTSD. Tim sees it taking over her. He tells her to stop in the softest way possible. Lucy takes a deep breath and little stomp but does. Telling her if she is not 100 percent in this it’s going to get her killed. Which ultimately will kill him in the process.

Lucy defends herself and says she’s got this. The news got to her at first but this is their one shot at Madris. That she is fine. I love him being protective and wanting to pull the plug just for her. The beautiful thing is he listens to her on this. Doesn’t bulldoze her and make a decision like he used to. He is trusting her in this moment. Letting her decide for herself ultimately. Which is such growth for him once again I can’t stand it.

He’s so ready to kill this OP if she’s not ok. I love that sfm. Letting her know that there is no shame if she does. He is there if she is ready to pull the ripcord. Tim is about to leave when she stops him. Tim looks so very confused once again. Lucy telling him it needs to look like they hooked up in here. Tim isn’t on the same page as her right now and it shows haha

Here comes that infamous airplane kiss. Has some similar aspects to their first kiss. Except way spicier this time around. Once again Lucy just pounces on Tim. He has to absorb the weight of her throwing her body at him. We watch him once again stumble into their kiss. Taken aback by her forcefulness. Her passion nearly knocking him off his feet. Tim isn't complaining once her lips collide with his though.

It doesn’t take long for him to adjust to it and go with this mini make out session of their's. He is adjusting much faster this time around. It’s all hands at first. His body absorbing the shock of her body slamming into his. Tim wrapping his arms around her anchoring her body to his. Lucy’s hands firmly planted on his face as she leads this kiss at first. Tim’s hands moving up her back fully enveloping her in his arms. Getting so very lost in her once again. Instantly melting into her.

I love how the kiss continues to get deeper. Sexier as well. Hot damn look at them above. Tim is the one chasing her lips as they continue this much spicier kiss. The way he’s leaning into her as they sway together. Two people in perfect tandem with each other. Not missing a beat. They were both so very thirsty in this moment. It’s all over this kiss. Tim running his hands up and down her back as he is savoring her. Lucy hands moving down his face not looking to part from him any time soon either. Tim isn't the only one getting easily lost in this.

Lucy’s hands sliding down his chest once again. This kiss getting deepened much faster this second time around. Their desire for one another is very evident. Tim can't keep his hands off her. Like I said for their kiss in 4x22. If they kept going his hands would end up on her face. He can’t keep them still and as she runs her hands down his chest. He pulls her closer to him not wanting to lose any contact with her. Eliminate any unnecessary space between them.

Her lips are quickly becoming a drug he is getting addicted to. He sure loves her upper lip. Captures it between his as he looks to further this impromptu kiss. *fans self* Look at him in that gif above. Wants her as close to him as possible. I just adore how softly he cups her face wanting to keep this kiss going. Totally forgetting about the mission and the men outside the door. All that matters right now is Lucy and her lips on his.

How Lucy has the self control to pull herself from him I don’t know. Gah it’s the grunt Tim does when she breaks off. *phew lord* That noise is doing things to me. Mmm. He was basically chasing her lips again when she broke off. Chasing that high of kissing her some more. He was very not ready for that to end. Also how glossy his lips look post kiss. She had her damn way with that man haha

He looks so dazed snd confused when she wipes his lips. Her hand shaking as she does this. I know we all joke about how “unnecessary” this kiss was. I think part of it was Lucy seeking comfort from Tim in this moment. The kiss quelling her Rosalind fueled anxiety. She needed to be connected with him for a moment before she could put it behind her or attempt to.

Tim was more than happy to oblige. Poor man has short circuited once again though. Eric once again the master of expressions comes through again. He doesn’t know how to restart. She’s like ok let’s do this and moves leaving Tim stand there in her wake. He is trying to figure out WTF just happened in the last 30 seconds.

We then get this pretty shot of them in the SUV. There is so much being said in the short time span of this shot too. We can see Lucy is still struggling with her PTSD. From the minute she heard the news Lucy has been scaling the walls emotionally. Almost like she’s back in that barrel. All her emotions threatening to drown her. Her lowering the window to get some air on her face. Cool her emotions down.

Looking at the bright lights trying to ground herself. To help her stay in character. Desperate not burn their UC covers. Tim looking over at her so much worry carried in eyes. She can feel his eyes on her and looks back at him. Their silent communication doing all the talking for them. She’s still in a panic but at least she has Tim with her. To keep her grounded and from spiraling out completely.

Tim giving the most space he’s given since this started. Not wanting to physically comfort her right now. Not because either of them want that space. It’s because he isn’t wanting to draw attention to her emotional distress. That would draw questions they can’t have right now. So they share a look and he doesn’t take his eyes off her. I love it so much.

Someone in the casino recognizes Jake. A girl. Which isn’t great. But does give us some protective Lucy which I always love. Finally getting to do that hair take down of her's. The one she threatened Stanton with back in 3x05. I love her taking charge of this moment. Getting this woman to back off. Don’t mess with Lucy Chen ya’ll lol They spot Angela and Aaron across the way after she lets this woman go. Figures this is the time to break off.

Lucy says she wants to gamble. See if they can get lucky three times in one day. Heh I love how he walks with her to them. Wish I could've fit the gif in. His hands on her shoulders from behind as they walk. Totally necessary to walk like this with her LOL I have a feeling this was possibly Eric being a goober steering her towards the table haha But either way I'm a happy girl with it. This was quite the married thing to do though regardless of why. I loved it. Also low key protecting her as they walk toward Angela and Aaron.

They update Angela on everything. Lucy’s first question is about Rosalind. Angela says she got a psycho lawyer to help break her out. We watch Lucy comprehend this. Saying 'Another Caleb....I knew it.' Then says Tamara needs protection. (No mention of Chris BTW) Her other fav human is with her. So no one else to protect from Rosalind. As they talk about this Lucy trying to keep her panic at bay but not doing the best job about it.

Angela picks up on it right away. Asking if Lucy is up for this? That she can pull out if she needs to. I adore Tim answering for her. Backing her and saying she’s solid. The look she gives Tim. My damn heart. He wasn’t gonna pull her till she told him to do so. Until then he supported and trusted her decision. The growth is astronomical in him. You see that written all over Lucy's face. It’s so damn good. You can tell she wanted to touch him as a thank you but stopped herself.

The minute they’re inside the room Lucy turns on the TV. Tim saves her from herself and turns it off. Saying they don’t know anything they don’t. Protective Tim is present through out this episode. Here for it. She is starting to spiral again and sits on the bed. She looks so tired and stressed out. Tim gives her a sweet compliment to cheer her up. He knows how down in the dumps she is about this. Wants to build her up in anyway he can. Saying how she's really good at UC. Just in awe of her once again.

The sweet smile he gives her when he says it too. Be more smitten Timothy I dare you. Lucy asks if he’s ok with her showering first? He says yeah. Then we see her break his brain once again. The door doesn’t close all the way and he gets a sneak peak of her naked back. He stumbles back to the bed trying not to look back at her. Replying 'Yeah... ok.. um fries.' LOL Lucy you have broken this man and I’m dying.

Eric once again crushes it with his facial expressions. Trying not to be turned on and needing a cold shower more than ever. What cracks me up is his sigh as he watches TV. Trying to drown out his dirty thoughts of her in the shower. She comes out saying the water pressure is epic. Wanting to steal the robes and asking if that's stealing? Tim says no it’ll just be charged to the room. She says ‘WE’ should take two then. There’s that married ‘We’ again.

You can tell Tim is antsy af to talk about their kisses. First off let me say how proud of I am of this man. This is the same man who couldn’t have a serious conversation with his current GF to save his life. He is the one to broach this topic with her. Once again making that first move. NEEDING to know if she’s feeling what he is very much feeling. Lucy is the one to bring this courage out in him. To want to talk about this.

He went far outside his comfort zone to get this convo started. Telling her it doesn’t feel like pretend to him. The look on his face as he says this. The hope in his eyes desperately trying to see if she is feeling their connection. Lucy panics and stutters in her reply. To me it’s not because she doesn’t feel the same. He has stunned her into silence. What she is worried about here is losing what they have.

To admit what’s going on between them means she now has something to risk. Something to lose if she does. Her person. The most important person in her life. Tim is far too important to her lose over them trying and possible failing. She is very aware it doesn’t feel like pretend. But isn’t willing to risk that. Ironically in a city like Vegas where one takes such risks. So she crushes Tim with her reply. Saying it’s an intimate act. It’s basic biology. You know a BS answer.

She is deflecting so she doesn’t have to risk losing him. Or confront this at all really. What she doesn’t know is the damage she just inflicted. Tim was already panicky from his convo with Angela about her not having feelings. He suddenly feels very alone in his desire for more. For feeling something. She’s basically rejected him in this moment. He is so sad with her reply.

He gives her one last chance with his ‘So you're saying it’s not a big deal? Doesn’t mean anything?’ She stumbles some more saying ‘Right?’ Wanting him to answer this question for her. She can’t possibly accept he wants her too. So she deflects once again. Tim put himself out there and she shut him down. Their convo is interrupted his cell phone. The looks she shoots his way break my heart. Knowing she’s hurt his feelings. When really she broke his heart a little.

It’s Angela with an update. He tells her he’s alone in the hotel with Lucy. Her ‘Uh oh’ always cracks me up. I love their friendship so very much. Her teasing is primo this season and it makes my heart happy. She is so shipping them and just wants her bestie to be happy. I love it. Telling him not to do anything she wouldn’t. He slams the phone shut and tosses it on bed. LOL

Lucy goes to dry her hair and there is a knock at the door. It’s the girl from earlier saying she knows he’s in there. Tim opens the door and gets hit in the face. They know he’s not Jake. Saying she told them he had a gut last time she saw him. That it was only 3 weeks ago. I mean that sucks for Sava. Means Jake was cheating on her long before 5x18.

He sends Wisco after Lucy and says he says not to kill her yet. Lucy is a BAMF and takes out most of the crew. This part is hilarious about her robe. I’m dying. 'Showed him the whole world just now.' Oh Lucy never change. Tim shakes his head so much I’m cackling. This is the woman you’ve chosen to love Timothy. So exasperated with he right now. I love how she stares down at him lovingly. But you know it’s just basic biology right Lucy?

I love love love him walking her up. That’s last bit of protectiveness being displayed. He doesn't want her to be alone. Tim saying he can’t wait to get out of these clothes. Lucy making a joke she isn’t going to miss that hairstyle. Then Tim is so cute and flirty says he kinda likes hers though. OMG he’s so damn cute. He is such a goner for her oh my word. Lucy’s smile not believing what she’s hearing. Gah this end portion was the death of me. Tim says I guess this is it as they approach her door. Saying they go back to being them tomorrow.

He almost seems sad about that fact. Lucy turning to him and sharing 'Right..everything that happened undercover they’ll leave behind'. No you won’t lol Then Tim does his dorky UC line and regrets it instantly. Scolds himself for that line. Basically saying why are you like this? LOL Cracks me up the way he shakes his head. Like why can't you be more smooth? Oh that's right because you're stupid in love with her and a nervous wreck about it. Funny pre-cursor to his 'Naked time.' line heh.

It’s then Lucy deciding to make a move here. All this talk about going back to being them stoking something inside her. Saying in a sense they’re still UC since they haven’t been debriefed. Tim not catching what she’s throwing down. Just replies 'I guess you’re right.' Lucy is eyeing him like she is ready to have him right then and there. Her ‘Mmhm.’. Trying to give him a hint as she flicks her eyes to the door. It’s then Tim starts to catch her drift. The look on his face when it hits him. Like he can't believe she feels the same way he does.

That there is something there. There is a whole lot of want and excitement in that man's eyes. Lucy has created a loophole of sorts. One where they’re still Jake and Sava. And what do Jake and Sava like to do? Have sex. Lots of hot sex. The amount of bedroom eyes Lucy is throwing at him is insane. The sultry inviting way she says ‘Do you want to come in?’ Tim falling back on his professional boundaries like he has for years. Tells her he shouldn’t…Not that he doesn’t want to. He SHOULDN’T. The song in this scene is solid too BTW. Whoever picks music for this show needs a raise.

Lucy nods and goes to open her front door. Tim looks longingly at her as she does. Lucy gives it one last go. Cranking it up on those sultry bedroom eyes of hers. Basically inviting Tim in to have his way with her. Gah Melissa killing it with the inviting stare. We watch Tim struggle outside her doorway. He has been fighting this instinct for YEARS. I’m sure whenever he had an impure thought he pushed it down. Shoved away any attraction to her. Pushed her away as well. Maintained the professional boundaries he set up years ago. (For the most part.)

Thing is he’s been slow receding those boundaries for years as well. Especially last season when that last bit of his wall collapsed. Slowly letting her into every aspect of his life. To the point that we are now here. Where Lucy is blatantly inviting him in for something very unprofessional. We see Tim have an internal battle with himself. Then basically says ‘F*ck it and comes in. His attraction and his draw to her winning out. He would be lying if he said he didn’t want this. Or hadn’t wanted it in the past before either.

Lucy asks him if he wants a drink? Can she make him one? Tim declining not wanting to waste any time in this precious loophole of theirs. Also didn’t need alcohol to have the courage to do this. He already pushed past that to even enter this apt. Not wanting to dull any senses or touch with alcohol. Wanting to be fully present with her. Lucy looks like was ready to jump his bones right then and there. The sexual tension is palpable. Their UST is off the charts with this entire scene but reaches critical levels once they’re inside.

Lucy understanding why he didn’t want that drink. Love her sweet but nervous smile as she goes to put her stuff down. It's then we see Chris there which ends up ruining everything LOL Just bleeding out on her couch. I love how Tim throws his head back when she see’s Chris is there. I’ll never forget that amount of hilarious memes Eric posted. People putting the funniest shit about him being there. I wish I could find them. They were SO funny. I’ll be honest as frustrated as I was in the moment I was glad they didn’t hook up. The UST was fantastic. Don’t get me wrong good god.

But it’s much better they got together the way they do this season. Way less mess and not worth the angst it would’ve caused for them to cheat on their SO’s. It’s the fact that they almost did that was so damn telling IMO. Phew well hot damn this was a beast to write. But I loved it. This premiere is fantastic from beginning to end. The amount of moments are unreal. Hell of a way to start out a season of non stop gifts. I haven’t watched S5 the number of times I’ve watched 1-4 so this will be fun. Excited to finish out this rewatch with you all as we count down to the S6 premiere. It’s 58 days btw...

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Side notes-Non Chenford

This isn’t something I enjoyed so much as it rubbed me the wrong way. Nolan getting a Golden Ticket. Lucy has accomplished more, done successful UC ops before and after she graduated FTO and is currently going on another UC but sure Nolan who was disgraced and held back gets one. Sure sure…it does for being Juarez in who I love so there is positives.

Tim telling Nolan he needs backup career when picking his assignment. LMFAO I LOVE THIS MAN.

Thank you thank you to this incredible fandom that has embraced these reviews. You all are amazing and I love every single like, comment and reblog I get. ❤️ shall see you all in 5x02 :)

[starbylers]

Hi. Can you tell us how do you believe byler will happen in s5 in the most realistic way? How the love triangle will be resolved?

Hi :) I usually hesitate to make specific s5 predictions because I have a feeling it will be different from what any of us expect so I don’t want to pretend I’ve got all the answers. That being said:

These are my general thoughts/predictions going into season 5:

First, I think it’s likely El will spend a lot of time bonding with Lucas (because of Max–didn’t Caleb allude to this already?), and probably Hopper too. I think she’s really going to come into her independence and realise Mike’s ‘love’ isn’t doing anything except holding her back. We see throughout the series that her character develops when she is not with Mike and stagnates/regresses when they are dating. With her parental figure returned to protect and support her, and newfound determination to achieve her goal i.e. save her best friend (something Mike’s ‘love’ couldn’t help her do), she really has like…not much need for him? I think El got what she thought she wanted (Mike’s confession), only to find it wasn’t what she really needed (it didn’t help her win in the end), and she’s going to be processing this come s5.

I think Mike will recognise that El is pulling away and direct his attention to the person who actually does need him: Will. We already see the beginnings of this in ‘2 days later’: El isolates herself in her old room, clearly not happy, and Mike chooses to comfort Will instead of going to her. Same pattern as in the final shot: El walks away from Mike, alone, and he stays by Will’s side.

Mike and Will are likely going to spend a large chunk of the season together. This has been foreshadowed (‘We have to kill him’/‘We will’, them paired in the final shot). Will is probably going to find himself in danger early on (he’s the supernatural focus of the season and it’s confirmed they are jumping straight into the action), which will bring the return of s2 Mike in full force.

I think we will get a lot of romantic tension, and references to their history to remind the audience how special their relationship really is. And most crucially: the gradual unveiling of what’s really going on in Mike’s head—probably while he himself is coming to terms with all of it—so the audience can begin to piece together why he’s changed so much since s3. I’m not sure how they will do this (more explicit pining? Vecna? Mike confiding in someone else?) but it’s really important otherwise Will is going to look like a second choice.

Thinking about the break up, mid-season is most likely to me because I just don’t believe Mike or El are quite there yet in their arcs for an early season split. Imo, Mike still needs to process that his ‘feelings’ for El are rooted in attachment/codependency (though I do think on some level he is aware that he’s not actually in love, which is why he did everything in his power to avoid the word—friends don’t lie), which will naturally happen when he starts to accept that how he feels for Will is what love is supposed to feel like. El also needs time to fully understand that she’s better off without their ‘romance’. The time-skip is a mystery to me, but I think Mlvn have to break up before it happens. (If their relationship makes it another two years and then Byler happens, Will is again going to look like a second choice and no-one is going to buy it).

As for how the break up would actually go down, I can’t be sure but I hope it will be amicable and light-hearted (maybe even a bit funny like an ‘I dump your ass’ callback as I think El is most likely to initiate), just one of those things that feels inevitable when it happens as they’ve both been spending time apart and prioritising other people and realising they’re actually happier that way. That would make sense if everything I have said up to this point is how it happens. Of course it could be more dramatic, but I think either way it will be emotional and end with them hugging it out.

After that…I don’t think we have enough to go off for any solid theory. But what I personally believe is that there will be a very dramatic confession scene for Mike and Will. I’m talking like Max’s running up that hill scene level of drama. Flashbacks and everything. I just think there will have been way too much build up and if they’re going to go for Byler, they really need to commit to it. I think it’s going to be one of them trying to save the other's life.

I obviously do think they will have quieter moments after though—maybe this is when they kiss. And I truly don’t believe El is going to be heartbroken over Mike and Will. I think by the time anything happens between them, El will have come to terms with how incompatible her and Mike were. I am of the belief that El likes the idea of Mike more than she actually likes/wants Mike. I don’t think she will struggle to move on once she realises this. Honestly I kind of hope the three of them can laugh about it in the end because that would be so healing to see.

That’s how I see it generally, but like I said I leave room for myself to be proven wrong and I’m always open to different interpretations (especially about Mike). Also, I don’t really see it as a love triangle? I mean it is one, in the technical sense. But I think that implies Mike is going to be ‘choosing’ between Will and El, and I really don’t think that’s the story here. I think for Mike it’s a story of realising it’s okay to be who you are (in a general sense and about his sexuality), and with that comes accepting who the right person for you actually is. Hope this answers your question!

[spookyrobbins]

What do you think was Callie's mindset when she was so eager to move to NY with Penny and just assumed she'd be taking Sofia with her and like Arizona was going to be ok visiting her daughter once every few months? That sounds like an impulsive decision a s4 or s5 Callie would do, not something she'd do after everything she's been through. It seems so immature.

oh yeah it’s so immature it boggles the mind. like callie bro you have a very small child you can’t just move across the country like that

my general thought around callie being so quick to agree to move with penny is very arizoan based. for starters she wants to avoid another africa situation. so she throws herself into it and goes to incredible lengths to follow penny so penny doesn’t dump her in an airport too. which okay understandable from a very high level viewpoint. but the situations are super different logistically as callie finds out

and on a deeper level i think callie wanted distance from arizona. maybe it was just subconscious. maybe it was very conscious. callie moved on relatively quickly except it’s very forced. she’s trying so hard to appear to be happy and in love even while she can barely tell penny she loves her. and even though i don’t think callie really had feelings for arizona in s12, i think arizona was the root of those issues bc callie felt some sort of need to prove that she had moved on but it wasn’t working how she thought it should’ve. and so she leapt at the first chance to put as much distance between them as possible. maybe there was also an element of callie wanting to not have arizona even remotely as an option. maybe callie was very aware of how arizoan wasn’t moving on and was trying to help her.

but callie fails to really think through her actions and makes a huge mess. and really lucks out that arizona folds in the end.

[hayscodings]

hi!! i know i probably sound insane at this point, but i love your posts so i have a few svetlana questions. if svet and yevgeny had stayed until the series finale what do you think would have happened with their characters? what would svetlana do when mickey gets out in season 10? would she and yevgeny attend the gallavich wedding? would svetlana stay in the thruple or get her own place or would something else happen? what would be a proper ending for her?? she’s such an interesting character and we were so robbed when she left with such a bad ending

Noooo I love your asks and asks in general, I am always more than happy to talk about Svetlana.

So before I get into these questions, I just want to preface this by saying that, even though I'm on my third rewatch, I still don't have a good "big picture" concept of each season, especially past S8. So I probably won't get into timeline specifics because my general recollection of the timeline is...not great. I've also never really thought about how Svetlana's storyline would have played out if she'd stayed on the show, so this will be entirely off the cuff.

Personally, I would have liked to see the throuple to work out. I think, because it was executed imperfectly, that there was a lot of potential to work out those kinks and improve on what needed improving. I think they should have delved into each of those dynamics more and showed us how they complemented one another. One of the things I missed in S7-8 was Kev and Svetlana's friendship. They bonded in S5 and worked alongside each other all of S6, but then as soon as they all became a throuple, the focus shifted to Svetlana and V (to the point where you almost forget that it was initially Svet and Kev who made a connection).

All three of their feelings, concerns, etc. should have been properly explored (one short therapy session scene wasn’t enough) and their issues should have been addressed and gradually worked out over the course of the season. I would have liked to see more meaningful conversations between them, not just short little disagreements that conveniently resolved themselves by the end of the episode without them getting to the actual root of the issue. Svetlana wasn't a good communicator, Kev would resort to immaturity any time he got angry, and V frequently put Svetlana on a pedestal while neglecting to consider Kev's feelings. They all had things they could work on.

As far as how it would all play out, I think it would have been good for Svetlana to be on her own for a bit. She could focus on herself and raising Yevgeny and maybe reflect on where she went wrong in her relationship with Kev and V. So let's say that by the end of S8 she's living in the apartment above the Alibi with Yev and her aunt. (She's not paying rent because Kev and V owe her that much after reporting her to ICE and generally treating her like shit.)

When S9 starts, she still owns 50% of the bar and is working alongside Kev and V. Maybe there's still some awkwardness from the whole breakup, but for the most part they're doing okay. I honest to god don't remember what Kev and V's plots are this season, but I think this is the one where Amy and Gemma start acting up and one of them says something about how they don't remember the girls behaving this way when Svetlana was around? I thought it was odd that they didn't consider that the twins missed their stepbrother and stepmom, so...Amy and Gemma start acting up, and they realize it's because the 'divorce' really affected them.

They talk to Svetlana about this (Yevgeny misses his sisters too) and decide to arrange playdates with the kids. I always felt that Svetlana just taking off to marry that old dude was too clean a break. I mean, they made no mention of a divorce, didn't have to deal with custody, didn’t bring up Svetlana’s 50% ownership of the bar, and never had the kids see each other again? That’s so lazy. So anyway, this gradually ends up bringing them all closer together again. They discuss putting the kids in the same preschool and it's all very full circle to S5.

Another thing I would have liked to see for Svetlana is her no longer having to depend on another person for a visa. The show never addressed her and V getting a divorce, so I have no idea when that happened, but let's say that they get one in S8. I am not an expert in immigration law by any means, but my guess is that Svetlana would be left in a similar position as she was in S6. So, she does some research, applies for a T Visa, and ends up being eligible for one. This is a huge relief for her because it's the first time that her status in the country is legitimately secured. By the end of the season she's saved up enough money to get her own place (the room above the Alibi isn't big enough for three people), so she rents a nice little apartment where Yev can have his own room. She also enrolls him in some sort of activity— maybe dance or gymnastics, whatever he shows interest in.

Come S10 she's thriving. Once again I have no idea what happens this season other than Gallavich wedding, so I apologize for not being able to incorporate more plot-relevant storylines. I'll come back to this ask once I’m further in my rewatch. Anyway, this is the season where shit really starts going her way for once— she's doing pretty good money-wise, she's officially back on good terms with Kev and V, and Yevgeny is thriving. She's got lots of ideas for bringing in business to the bar, and maybe a couple of side hustles for good measure. She's still in touch with most of the girls from the massage parlor and one of them ends up giving her the number of a therapist who specializes in helping survivors of human trafficking. She sits on it for a long time but finally brings herself to call when she gets news from her mother in Russia that her father passed away.

She finds out about Mickey getting out of prison from Ian. They end up reconnecting and talking somethings out and Svetlana tells Mickey that if he wants to have a relationship with Yev, whether in a parental capacity or otherwise, then the door is always open. He asks her about the whole throuple situation— teases her about how he would have loved to be a fly on the wall— and she assures him that that ship sailed and that she blew it. She gets invited to the Gallavich wedding and attends with Yevgeny. Mandy is also in attendance, and the two of them get to talking and wonder why they didn't bond sooner.

S11 is when she's finally a place where she's ready to try and make a relationship work again. She's grown and healed a lot since S8, and she's no longer dependent on anyone for security so that anxiety has ceased being a motivating factor for her actions. Kev and V have since apologized and made up for everything that they put her through, and Svetlana understands why they felt betrayed about the bar and apologizes for hurting them. The three of them start to rebuild their relationship throughout the season, determined not to make the same mistakes as last time. Eventually they decide to move in together and buy a place somewhere away from the Southside, though still not too far. It feels like a proper fresh start.

Ian and Mickey start to be a part of Yev's life and Svetlana considers them family. She also becomes very close with Mandy and encourages her to go back to school so that she can get a better job. She’s relieved when Mickey informs her that Terry died, but attends the funeral in solidarity. His mixed feelings remind her somewhat of her own when her father passed.

Post-series, Kev and V get to practice the little Russian that Svetlana has taught them when they finally meet her family (her mother and grandmother fly out to Chicago to see her and meet Yev for the first time). They’ve learned to embrace her culture. Yevgeny is fully fluent and the tries to teach Amy and Gemma. He’s also inherited his mom’s mathematical prowess. Svetlana is safe and happy and finally has what he always wanted for herself and her son— a loving family. Several years down the line she’s able to obtain citizenship.

[dearparrishh]

will having a little shop of horrors poster in his room is technically just a little bit of fun, but i was just thinking and realised something - for anyone who doesn’t know the plot of little shop of horrors, to summarise :

seymour krelborn buys a strange plant. this plant turns out to only eat blood. the plant gets so big that the florist becomes famous for it.

seymour is, on top of this, in love with a girl named audrey. he doesn’t believe audrey will ever love him back because he is kind of a klutz and she is so beautiful and cool. audrey doesn’t believe seymour will ever love her back because all of her life, she’s been lead to believe she is worthless.

but the stage version and the movie version have different endings.

the musical stage version (and the version will owns a poster of) :

in this ver. seymour’s ends up having to feed audrey to the plant because she has been half eaten anyway (while seymour wasn’t at the shop, the plant starts eating her) - so he sacrifices her, but only by her command. he then gets eaten by the plant and it takes over the whole world, and everyone in america dies at the hands of the plant.

the movie version :

in the movie, the plant starts eating audrey, and seymour saves her, but she isn’t hurt as badly, so seymour zaps the plant back to space, and they live ‘happily ever after’, ‘somewhere that’s green’ (a dream house that audrey has been fantasising about living in all her life), away from the horrors of the world.

and i have every reason to believe the duffers added this as a little bit of foreshadowing for their ending. i mean, the musical version is far more morbid than they will make the s5 finale. multiple cast members have pointedly said that characters get perfectly ended arcs and i think it goes without saying the quite literally can’t mean that they all die. and the movie wasn’t actually out until 19th december 1986, so the same year as s4, but still.

i don’t think it was about the little shop of horrors characters, or their arcs, or anything like that - i strongly believe the duffers were thinking of the ending when they made the executive decision to put a full on poster in will’s room - even the fact that there are two endings, (of lsoh) it’s like a huge part of the plot and it affects whether the characters we are rooting for live or die.

we have all seen our fair share of ‘will/mike sacrifices himself for mike/will’ or ‘will/mike saves mike/will from imminent death’ theories and headcanons and i feel like this is reason to believe it might play out a bit like that.

i mean. maybe i don’t really know where i’m going with this one but it definitely means something - please feel free to reblog or comment with your ideas!!

[katarinas-redemption]

NBC The Blacklist - The showrunners confirm they've always known the endgame - Jon Bokenkamp.

“When you know ultimately why he chose her, and why he decided to give us these cases, I think the story is ultimately over. But we will answer that, and we will get there, and we do have an answer that we’re working towards.” - Bokenkamp, Tv Insider

“The truth is that, once we know who Reddington is, and we know why he entered Liz’s life, then the story is over. Only then, is the story told.” - Bokencamp, Collider

Daniel Knauf: On the Blacklist, we are making up a lot of things as we go along but not the main thing. The core - the heart and soul of that show  is the relationship between Red and Liz. Their trajectory has not changed one iota. It’s solid as a slot-car track. 

Zee Hatley: Re: S5 Finale:

"My favorite line from the pilot paid off last night. Follow the breadcrumbs… " #TheBlacklistReveal

Daniel Cerone: The pieces will fit, but it’s a series journey with twists and turns. We know the end game.

BOKENKAMP: We did not pitch what the entire plan was to the network, but we have always had an endgame in mind. I come from writing features, and it’s hard to sit down and write a movie and just start on page one and go, “Well, we’ll see where we end.” It’s like a math problem. You have to know what you’re working toward. We have always had that bible in our heads, which makes it very difficult, at times, to write the show.

Jon Bokenkamp: “Obviously, we side-step and we improvise at times, but the deep core of the mythology of the show and who Reddington is, and all those big questions, are rooted in the inception of the show.”

Jon Bokenkamp: - along the way there are benchmark truths that we like to land on that are canon that might sound like they’re adrift or can be open to interpretation - and oftentimes they can be, and they should be. But that’s part of what’s fun about the show is trying to keep up with the mythology and unlock it. Ultimately I’m really proud, if you look back at the last six seasons that we’ve done, it adds up in a very clear way. We work very hard to do that. 

Did you know from the beginning that James Spader’s character wasn’t really Reddington?

Jon Bokenkamp: Since day one. It’s almost impossible to not know the ending before you begin or at least a really strong sense of it. “it is something that we’ve been playing from the beginning, and James has been playing from the beginning that we’ve been working towards.”

This turn goes all the way back. It is something that we've talked about since the show was picked up [in 2013]," Bokenkamp tells ET of the game-changing revelation. 

ET: What hints from the early seasons can you call out as clues that the Raymond Reddington we've gotten to know the past several years was an impostor?

Jon Bokenkamp: There are a number of them. In season one, Liz flat out asked Reddington over the payphone, "Are you my father?" and after a long pause, he said, "No." That is true and true since the beginning of the show. Now, Raymond Reddington is her father but this man is not the original Raymond Reddington. That's an example of how we have feathered storylines to point us toward this reveal. There are moments like that in each of the five seasons.

Jon Bokenkamp: The Imposter Theory can be traced all the way back to the first time Reddington met Elizabeth Keen and told her: 'I'm a criminal, criminals are notorious liars. Everything about me is a lie.'"

This trail of breadcrumbs has been five years in the making.

Jon Bokenkamp: It’s something we’ve talked about daily on the show. If we didn’t have a very clear answer to what we were doing, it would be very difficult. I hope now that people can look back at the five years of clues that have pointed us toward this and realize that this isn’t something we’re just pulling out of our pocket 

How surprising is the reveal of Reddington’s true identity?

On a scale of one to 10, it would have to be an 11.

Eisendrath: We started the show seven years ago with one story that we knew we wanted to tell and we’re very happy about the fact that we’ve been given the chance to tell it over all these years,

Eisendrath: The audience, while wanting to know ultimately the truth, won’t get impatient—but will be given enough to enjoy the riddle of what the ultimate truth is.

Eisendrath: Just because we give the answer to one of the early questions that we deposit in the pilot, does not mean that there won’t be others that come from it.  So, yes, we will answer some of the questions from the pilot, but those will just spin off other questions.

Eisendrath: We had an idea of what the story was from the beginning, and we haven’t really veered from it at all. That’s part of why, every year, we’ve been able to give genuine, legitimate answers that the audience has been able to enjoy.

The show has many mysteries and unanswered questions - for instance, what Red whispered to Kirk. Should fans expect all of them to be answered?

James Spader: There’s an intention from the writers, creators and mine to bring the audience with us during this journey and keep them until the end. And at the end the audience will be able to go back to the first episode and watch it all again and notice it all makes sense since the beginning.

James Spader: It may come as a surprise, but the truth is, that the directions that we’ve taken and the decisions that we’ve made in terms of the show are not arbitrary. They’re not. “- there has been a plan.”

James Spader: If it’s done the way we intend, once we reach the inevitable end of the series, you’ll look back and you’ll realize that there were things you found out along the way that you weren’t sure how to process and all of a sudden those things will connect. 

Anthony Pepe: No doubt. It’s not even a question. We have given you the answers from practically the first episode. How much more do we have to force feed it? It’s Katarina Rostova. I mean it’s not even a question… - for lack of a better term I got that straight from the horses mouth. James told me himself, if you watch the show from the beginning, everything is right there. Now that you know what you know.

Lukas Reiter: One of the things that’s really special about this series is, unlike shows where you’re finding it as you go, we’ve always had that sequence and we’ve always known the central truth at the center of the series. And so it is pretty cool as a writer to be working on the same story for this amount of time cause I don’t think you see that that often.

[booasaur]

poi anon again and the spoiler thing for me is actually so annoying because i knew a lot—carter, reese, shaw’s capture and something happening to root (didn’t know that something was death though >:(—like id actually really tired to not spoil the ending and then someone offhandedly mentioned it. and i didn’t google because i hoped they were lying but nope. and by then i was a couple of episodes into s5 so i stuck it through only to feel super let down. i still love the show because a woc with a personality disorder that wasn’t vilified for it is huge and for all the time root x shaw didn’t get to actually be a couple, the actresses made the very best of it but ugh. it’s you said, it’s not bad to acknowledge that the character or their storyline has evolved (eg. root’s death, other than being super brutal and underwhelming, would’ve made sense for her early s3 narrative, not the finale IMO) and then work that evolution into an ending that matches their current character. i get having a vision but fuck that! and more than pride and stubbornness sticking with what you’d initially planned when the story has clearly moved on is also just bad tv!

Ahhh, man, you were prepared juuuust not enough. D: I can imagine, I've had book experiences like that (or actually, a lot of sports...?), where you're just waiting for the inevitability to wind down but you have to see it to the end.

And for sure, exactly, why stay with the initial idea when everything else has changed? It is bad storytelling!

[zenon-karr]

Hey @will80sbyers I adore your posts! I’m also a bi Mike truther. ✨💚 Melville is literally the reason why I came to the byler conclusion. Mike act the same with El and Will! their storylines are the same! The story is him realizing he loves Will and falling out of love with El. It completely makes sense. We see mike lose Will and he leans on El in s1 and it’s the same in s2 only reversed with Will and Mike. Then he has them both and can’t maintain them both and doesn’t know why - coz they are the SAME. And s3 end he loses them both and realize he loves Will. You can see it. They’re both genuine. I’m sorry it is so easy for them to hide the byler endgame this way. Coz all Finn needs to do is only describe one part of the story and he isn’t even lying! It open up many more endless reasons or explanations for s5 why the monologue happened. From Mike wasn’t connecting just like Vickie wasn’t connecting w her boyfriend + loving Will but when he says the painting is from El maybe he think that she picked up common interests so it was genuine and thinks Will doesn’t love him back. To he was in love with El and feels guilty she needs him after Will’s speech he thinks he should say what she want to hear. It just add to the possibilities that still end with byler being endgame. Also it reps the difference between being gay and bi in the 80s and how confusing it would be to know you love you gf but have same feelings for your best friend who is guy.

Idk I wanted to take the time to make some bi Mike thoughts to show you support because I’m sorry you getting so many hate anons - I really love your posts and wanted to make an appreciation post! ✨💚

Also this isn’t anti gay Mike either I support this but for me as a byler that saw it in s2 and been theorizing - Melville lead me here. I really truly don’t say this coz I ship them both. I definitely cannot stand Melville anymore but I still don’t forget my byler roots and how I came to the conclusion and I can’t ignore it. Melville for me really only sucks after s2 which coincides when Mike would be hypothetically starting to develop feelings for Will. He seem genuinely into El until the moments we deemed his realizations aka when he doesn’t kiss her back and the way he look at the Byers house at the end of s3 and during s4. Actually the difference in Mike’s treatment of El in s4 confirm it’s requited to me in comparison to how he treated her in s1-3. In fact for me bi Mike actually confirm byler more for me becuase it is how came to the conclusion. So I truly mean nothin bad to gay Mike truthers so I just want to let y’all know this. I really just want to make a bi Mike post to support @will80sbyers because I agree and also because I adore their blog!! ✨💚💚💚

[bellamysgriffin]

It’s funny, what you said about GG condoning bad behavior, I always felt that way when it comes to Logan. I mean, I personally think he lacks layers and I tried to make sense of what ASP wanted to tell the audience through his character/his romance with Rory. Am I supposed to root for them even though it seems like he’s just this guy who allows Rory to act recklessly? Are we supposed to hope for development or to get used to the way he is because that’s all we’re going to get? I know there’s more to it but just the way you put it reminded me of how I felt. And I think that once you get to AYitL this thing she does with Rory’s character gets even more evident (worse). And I sympathize with what Rory is going through then, but ASP doesn’t seem to be very into making a “the moral of the story is that THIS wasn’t okay at all” or a “she learned from that, she isn’t supposed to get away with that just because we love her” and that bothers me. And so does the way Dean’s behavior is romanticized and never treated seriously. (I don’t know how you feel about his behavior and all, but yeah.) Sorry if my ask doesn’t make any sense, I just wanted to share a few confusing thoughts! 🫠🫶🏻

okay i'm gonna break this up since there's a lot of moving pieces here! also, let's preface this by saying that i've only watched through 6.13 so i might not have all the info yet.

first off, i am (unfortunately) gonna have to disagree on the whole logan thing. i don't think it's entirely fair to say that logan allows rory to act recklessly. i think we should acknowledge rory's agency in these decisions. she was the one who talked logan into the boat thing, he wasn't sold on the idea until she basically insisted. and it was her choice to drop out of yale. we might be able to admire jess/lorelai for calling her on it, but i don't think logan should be condemned for "allowing" rory to make her own choice about her life.

i might agree that he feels like he lacks layers, but that's mostly because has no ties to characters outside of rory. i actually see a very clear point for their relationship, and i think it's to give rory a bit of a reversal when it comes to romance. with dean and jess, she was always the pursued, golden child. but logan is not really impressed by that side of her and she's the one who pursues him, she's the one who is criticized by his family as not being good enough, and she's the one who says i love you first. and so we get to see rory in a very different romantic position.

if i'm being honest, i think it's pretty clear that logan treats rory better than jess or dean did. i think it's her most functional relationship yet. that said, i'm not necessarily super emotionally invested in him as a character or their relationship. i liked them a lot at the beginning of s5, but they're relatively static/lackluster to me right now. logan is pretty smarmy/smug/spoiled rich kid, but to be fair, that seems to be what rory is interested in right now. this storyline is clearly partly about her exploring the emily/richard side of herself, and logan represents that life which is why (yeah, i know the spoiler) i think it will be interesting to see her reject his proposal partly as a rejection of that life (or at least thats what i assume the context is, at least partly). i was definitely more emotionally invested in both jess as a character and his relationship with rory, but that's because jess was a lot more well-rounded and had a very clear, well-executed arc outside of rory. the storyline it represented for rory at the time was an interesting one too.

moving on to the other part of the ask, i will have to see how a year in the life goes but i don't even mind if ASP doesn't outright condemn rory's actions, it's more that the show honestly seems to be promoting them. we're supposed to support rory's betrayal of paris with the paper wholeheartedly. we're supposed to see her side when she's icing out her grandparents. and i don't think either of those actions are great, and we shouldn't be rooting for them.

and finally, the dean point is SUCH a good one. for the record, i hate him, i think he sucks, and i cannot believe the show continues to frame him as the best boyfriend in the world. he was a piece of utter trash and treated rory worse than any of her other love interests, was persistently angry and treated people badly, but the show seems wholly oblivious to this fact. so yeah, maybe it's consistent with ASP lmao

[strangertheories]

so i just finished vol 2. and it left me with more questions.. i wasn’t really upset per say i was just really confused. and disappointed kind of. like don’t get me wrong it wasn’t bad! like robin and vicky seemed rushed i wasn’t really rooting for them (i’m biased cause i love ronance) but even then idk it just left like “why😭” there are so many things that aren’t addressed.. i have so many points to make i just idk i’m just really confused 😭

I agree and disagree. I think the reason why it feels kind of unfinished and unsatisfying is because it is. Our heroes are at their lowest point ever. We have no idea what happened to Vecna, the origins of the Upside Down, what's going on in Hawkins, etc. And I think it's meant to be a bit like that. There's so much mystery and all of the answers have just given us more questions. On a first watch, I really enjoyed it but was a bit like 'that's it?' but now that I've re-watched it and had more time to digest it, it now feels like more intentional and dark. Like the end of Avengers: Infinity War except more mysterious and it's begging for S5.

But there is some stuff that just kinda feels glossed over for no reason as a result of the two day time skip. Why is no one mourning Eddie and what happened to his body? What happened to Yuri, Murray and Dmitri? How did the Russian crew get here? How is what happened to Max explained? Lucas just turned up with her snapped body and weird eyes and the police or town never asked why she's like that? Why is no one questioning the earthquake? It just feels kind of lazy and way too convenient. I get the finale was long enough but it kind of felt like 'oh shit we need to finish the season um time skip'.

And yeah the Robin and Vickie stuff felt rushed. They clearly wanted her to have a boyfriend for Robin's big dramatic run away scene but then to have them immediately break up and have Vickie not care at all? Again, way too convenient. And the fact that their personalities seem to be identical is just so unrealistic and dull because the Duffers cannot write romance. And like you, I am heavily biased against that ship because Ronance and bisexual Nancy just seems so right but Ronance aside, it's still just boring and inferior to other ships.

Thanks for the ask (:

[mikewheeler]

hi ally! first of all, thanks for being such a ray of sunshine for the mileven community! ❤️ i wanna ask what your expectations are for s5 mileven and how do you think the duffers will write them for their last final season? :)

Hi cutie!! Thank you so much 🥺 I’m so happy to be here and celebrate the ship I’ve loved for six years!!

As for predictions, I’ve seen a lot of intriguing theories! One that I believe really has some merit is that mike specifically will be put in danger in the final battle and el will need to rescue him. For the love interest of a superhero, mike has made it through the show relatively unscathed (physically, anyways), and we haven’t seen this situation before - aside from briefly in the sauna test and generally in the season finales, when el is saving everyone. I could totally see the duffers utilizing this superhero must save love interest trope, especially since they’ve already acknowledged the Superman/Lois Lane dynamic in season 4. It would be a kind of nod to that aspect of their relationship.

From a pessimistic lens, I don’t see mileven having a huge spotlight in the final season. This is mostly because the general audience seems to have lost interest in them, and the narrative of stranger things has expanded quite a bit over the last four seasons to encapsulate a lot of different arcs and stories that all have to fit and have screen time in the final season. There are lots of loose story threads to tie up. So realistically I don’t see them having a major arc next season. I hope so much that I am wrong tho!

That being said, there is still plenty of story left to explore for those 2, and if it were up to me (a woman with taste), they would return as a central focus of the narrative. I would love to see the final season really dive into the idea that mike and eleven were fated to meet; Mike saying “ it wasn’t fate, it wasn’t destiny , it was just simple dumb luck” in 4x08 is the first time the series has verbally acknowledged the soulmate aspect of their relationship, and then further confirmed it with Mike loving El from the moment he saw her. I mean this show is about supernatural forces so I don’t know why it would be all that far fetched to include love and destiny as one of those supernatural forces. Also, ST is hammy as hell, and that’s why we love it, so I feel the show should really just lean into it, go all the way and really explore that soulmatism in the final season. Especially since the core 4 dynamic is supposed to return in the final season, so to end where we began is the perfect opportunity to emphasize the soulmate story, which has been rooted in this narrarive since the start, and which we see play out across all four seasons (in large part thanks to Finn and Millie’s incredible acting skills). Come on duffers, finish out strong!

Whatever happens, I believe mike and el will end the series together. I don’t see a mileven wedding as some have predicted (including apparently Millie lol), but I can’t see them going separate ways. Not after everything that has happened, not after “I knew right then and there in that moment I loved you and I have loved you every day since”, not after “mike is a part of eleven, eleven is a part of mike, they are one.” As the story has been told thus far, it would be a narrative mistake not to do so. I know I am biased but also I am right 😊

[space-cat-ramblings]

WHY DOES EVERYONE ALWAYS HATE ON SHANNON???

Seriously tho like yeah, she messed up with Cantor Dina, but like her husband was a drug addict who hadn’t shown her genuine affection in years and left her to raise Jessi mostly alone, and like ??? Should she have cheated? No. Is Greg a bad father for being a completely unavailable parent and husband and never getting help? Yes.

It wasn’t healthy for Shannon to stay with him in that state for so long in the first place. Again, cheating wasn’t the answer, she should have separated from him first, but it also wasn’t the underlying cause of the family tearing apart or the divorce. That was on Greg, and really the family’s been torn apart for years since Shannon was functionally a single mother, Jessi was just too little to realize it at the time.

She’s overall a really good parent, she just made a mistake. I also second what Matthew says in My Furry Valentine:

“I have a lot of respect for your mom. It’s hard enough to question your sexuality in middle school, in your 60s? It’s admirable” -Matthew S3 E1

We don’t know Shannon’s specific sexuality, but either way, it’s a scary struggle, especially while raising a pubescent kid with an unreliable and irresponsible father, and acting a little impulsively while first exploring the prospect is understandable. (AAAAAAA I ALSO JUST REALIZED WITH THE S5 TRAILER THING WITH JESSI WE’RE PROBABLY GONNA SEE JESSI/SHANNON BONDING MOMENTS IM SO EXCITED)

And in regards to her pressuring Jessi too much, yes. It’s true, and it was a mistake, but she was only doing it because she cares about and wants the best for Jessi, she just had a very flawed concept of how to help her. That hurt Jessi, but Shannon’s pressure wasn’t the root of her mental illness. We don’t see Shannon putting pressure on her until the ASSEs, wayyy after the depression kitty shows up. Not to mention, Shannon is also the reason why she gets help for it, along with Greg (who finally gets his shit together after that talk with Marty in Guy Town), and she was incredibly understanding about moving Jessi back after the city didn’t work out, voluntarily giving up primary custody of the daughter she raised, which is a very difficult thing to do, especially given how big of her it was to trust Greg as primary guardian given his history. She did a lot to help Jessi the best she could.

In conclusion, Shannon is a girlboss and does not deserve the hate y’all throw at her. If anything she’s one of the better parents of the show. Also, I don’t hate Greg, I’m just saying absolving him of the very big blame he has for Jessi’s home situation is unfair (especially when that blame is all shifted to Shannon). He’s not a bad person, he just needed to get help and get his shit together a lot sooner, but he’s become a much better parent in the last few seasons, and kudos to him on that.

[andromedacrawley]

why do you ship brary?

Hi, thank you so much for asking this! this response ended up being much longer than I anticipated upon, so the full, way too long answer is below the cut! But, in case you’re curious and don’t feel like reading my essay, then:

TL;DR: Unlike Mary’s canon love interests post-Matthew, Tom is a firmly established character who the audience was already invested in, they understand the pain of losing a spouse far too soon, I love a good friends-to-lovers trope, you can see in canon how much they genuinely care for one another, Michelle Dockery and Allen Leech have great onscreen chemistry which initially led me to believe the relationship would eventually lead to romance, and up until S6E8, I was fully convinced that they would be a couple by the end of the series because of the ways in which the scenes were written.

So to answer this question, I kind of had to think about how I first came to ship Brary because when I was watching the show as it aired, I was 100% anti-Brary! In fact, it wasn’t until I was a few chapters into writing Come Alive that I actually started shipping them, because that mostly just started off as an experiment! Mary and Matthew were my favorite couple (and still are!) but I did have a soft spot for Sybil and Tom as well, and I absolutely devastated by Sybil and Matthew’s deaths.

And when S4 rolled around and I watched it for the first time, I hated the thought of Mary moving on— I wasn’t thrilled about Tom potentially moving on, either, but he had more time to grieve and while I did like him, I wasn’t as invested in his plot lines as I was Mary’s. My biggest fear was that, because they were both single now, that Julian Fellowes would pair them together which just felt wrong to me. I was 100% actively rooting against it. In my mind at the time, the best ending of show would have had Mary remaining unmarried.

But much to my dismay, it seemed like that was going to happen. Sure, there Mary’s romances with Tony and Charles, but even though she had that love triangle scenario going on with them and Tom had his romance with Sarah Bunting, there were all these moments where it felt like they were deliberately being pushed together— from Violet inviting them to her house to encourage Tom to educate Mary on the running of the estate so she could have an active role in it to playing with their children in the nursery. I hated the idea of them together but there seemed to be all these hints in the narrative that suggested to me that they’d eventually end up together— like some of their deeper conversations in S5 where Mary said that his leaving would be a dagger in her heart and those seemingly longing looks they would give one another, so it definitely felt like Julian Fellowes was giving us a slow burn romance.

And I think some of that was (completely inadvertently) due to Michelle Dockery and Allen Leech’s real life friendship. I’m by no means a professional, but I’ve been acting since I was six years old and I was once cast opposite one of my closest male friends. There was never at any point anything romantic between us and he was the closest thing I had to a brother, and we were both very, very uncomfortable with having to play romantic partners— but because we were such good friends, our real life familiarity manifested itself in onstage chemistry that lent itself well to portraying a romantic relationship. And I definitely think that’s what happened in a lot of these scenes with Tom and Mary, because so many of those scenes managed to seem to have this undercurrent of deeper, romantic feelings to them… which I am 100% was a complete accident, but combined with the dialogue, it just really gave off that vibe of two people who were secretly in love but too afraid to actually vocalize it yet.

Furthermore, I find the way Julian Fellowes writes romance to be incredibly obvious. Even though the characters might not necessarily professing their love for one another straight away, it was always easy to pick up on who had feelings for who almost immediately, especially in the first seasons— like Anna and Bates in their very first scene, Sybil and Tom talking enthusiastically about their political interests the first time they’re alone together, Carson’s worries about Mrs. Hughes accepting Joe Burns’s proposal, etc. So since it seemed like he was building up this relationship between Tom and Mary, so while I was very unhappy about it, I was resigned to the fact that it was going to happen.

There were so moments where I was watching the show and preparing myself for them to get together. I thought Mary might suddenly reveal she had deeper feelings for Tom near the end of S5 to prevent him from moving away to America. But then he did leave, S6 was announced, and Henry Talbot was introduced as a love interest for Mary. Since I knew there was no way Tom was gone for good, my prediction was revised to Henry Talbot being the final obstacle standing between them, and the series would eventually conclude with them together in some capacity. And this idea seemed to be more and more reinforced by Tom returning, some of their conversations (like Tom asking if she regretted getting rid of her suitors and her coyly replying “No”, and then their conversation about how love and marriage need to be a relationship between two equally matched partners as they were literally acting as partners as co-agents on the estate, Mary telling Tom that she wasn’t serious about Henry), and Henry not reentering Mary’s life until after Tom’s return and thus setting him up as a rival for Tom… it just felt like Julian Fellowes was beating us over the head with hint after hint after hint that Tom and Mary was going to happen, whether I liked it or not. Then there was the car accident at Brooklands and that seemed to be the final nail in the coffin for Mary and Henry’s relationship, so after Mary broke it off with him, I braced myself for Tom/Mary endgame within the last two episodes.

So… needless to say, I was stunned by the end of S6E8. I could elaborate much, much further on my interpretation of the episode at that time (I definitely can elaborate on that in case anyone is interested, I just don’t want to derail this further than I already have!), but there was just so much that suggested this episode was going to be the one where I’d have to face my fear and watch Tom and Mary profess their undying love for one another— every single scene with them just seemed to suggest that was the direction it was going, especially since Tom literally told Mary in the midst of an argument that the reason he was interfering because he loved her and wanted her to be happy (and to which Mary told him that he had “a bloody odd way of showing it” and sounded exactly like a woman who was growing increasingly bitter with the fact the man she loved was continuing to insist she be with another man). And after watching Henry tell Mary that he was going to make throwing him over be as “hard and horrible as possible” and yelling at her in that commanding tone as she ran up the stairs after her accused her of being a gold digger, I figured it was an attempt to villainize Henry and further solidify Tom as her love interest. When Violet made her return and said, "Tom says that he is in love with you and that you are in love with him,” I sincerely thought the he and him in question were Tom, not Henry. The fact that she married Henry at the end of the episode genuinely felt like a plot twist to me at the time and while I wasn’t exactly enthralled by their marriage, I do remember being relieved my suspicions regarding a Tom and Mary romance were proven incorrect.

But then a few years went by and while I was doing a rewatch of Downton Abbey ahead of the first movie, I kept seeing all those hints again and now that the sting of losing Matthew didn’t cut so deep anymore… honestly, I felt like I’d been made a fool of because I really had been convinced that they were going to be together. I noticed even more cues the more I rewatched it, and by that point Mary had become my favorite character of the show (before then, it was Thomas, and I’d say he comes in a very close second place) and I was just completely unsatisfied in her ending. I will maintain my initial wish of her remaining single would have probably been the most narratively satisfying ending possible for her (and I can delve into that in a different post if anyone is interested!) but at the same time, I don’t want her to be alone for the rest of her life, especially since she has so much ahead of her, and she did say that she wanted to marry again… but by this rewatch, I really wasn’t into Henry.

And it was just around this time that I began thinking about how having Tom as her love interest would have worked so much better; firstly, he is an established, fully fleshed out character who we’ve had a chance to know since S1. He does undergo a lot of change later in the series, but we see how it develops. The audience is invested in him and his storylines, and had he and Mary been together, we would have cared about him for who he was rather than his relationship to Mary. He has ties to nearly every character on the show, both upstairs and downstairs— perhaps even more so than other characters, if only because he was a part of the downstairs until he married Sybil. He has complexity and relationships separate from Mary that are unique to his own character— and he was incredibly underutilized in S6 because essentially his entire storyline was tied to Mary and her love life— which would have made more sense if he was her love interest but instead he’s playing matchmaker.

Secondly, he, of all people, would understand the kind of grief and loss she has endured because he has gone through exactly the same thing. Another critical part of this for me is that he knew Matthew and he loved him as a part of his family— and vice versa when it comes to Mary with Sybil. They also had the challenges of raising children without their deceased spouses and scenes like the one in the nursery in S4 just how much that bond alone means to them… and they obviously adore one another’s children, too.

I also happen to really love friends-to-lovers as a trope, so since they are best friends, it makes sense that I would eventually come to appreciate them as a romantic pairing as well. I definitely don’t think this works for every pairing of best friends and I don’t believe every male-female friendship needs to turn into something romantic, but with the factors I already listed (as well as the fact it really seemed like there was more than just friendship being hinted), I really loved the idea of it evolving something beyond being platonic, especially after they’d both endured the same sort of hardships.

That being said, as such close friends, I love how they’re always thinking of the other and they are each other’s biggest supporters. Even though Mary wasn’t exactly thrilled by his and Sybil’s relationship, it’s clear that by the time he returns to Downton for her and Matthew’s wedding that any resentments she might have had are gone completely and she’s one of the first people to welcome him and do it without unintentionally alienating him. She’s one of his biggest defenders in S3, along with Matthew, continually reminding her grandmother to call him “Tom” instead of “Branson”, she was beyond pleased when Matthew decided to make him the best man at their wedding, and though she greatly sympathized with her father, she was firmly on Tom’s side when it came to the christening… and of course we can’t forget how she enlisted Thomas to humiliate the butler at Brancaster who kept snubbing Tom. Furthermore, he’s always concerned about her and her best interests as well. He’s the one who recognizes that letting her wallow in her grief won’t help her in the long run and, despite their fraught relationship, goes to Carson because he knows that he can get through to her. He also encourages Mary to be active in the running of the estate and once he returns, he doesn’t want to step on her toes… and I could list just so many other moments as well. Of course, all of these things are also evidence of their platonic friendship, but it’s still a part of why I love their dynamic with one another.

Overall, I just think they’re compatible in so many ways, and the fact that I could see the potential they had even when I didn’t want them to be together just speaks to how wonderful a couple they would have made!

[alectology-archive]

following up about that post about antis wanting catra to die more, i think they want less death per se and more like,,, accountability by adora due to their 3 year long fight, hence why they view catradora as abusive. it’s really weird honestly because they were enemies and i can’t imagine how adora cutting catra out of her life would make the latter a better person. idk i just hate how wrongly misunderstood their relationship is

I think you mean accountability on catra's part? but you’re right!! sooo many people misunderstand catra & adora’s relationship and I’m not sure how they could get it so wrong. idk there’s so many parts to it indicating how complex it is - how adora cared for catra, how catra was allowed to stay with the horde just because adora liked her, how they consider each other their homes, how they promised each other they’d stay together and couldn’t keep it because shadow weaver messed them up as kids, how catra didn’t really know that the princesses were genuinely Good People and things spiralled when she tried to prove she was capable of being better than being adora. I could go on.

And anyway. we KNOW how packed season 5 already was and in the amount of time that was given I personally think the creators did a good job with their redemption arcs - at least the previous seasons had some filler episodes but s5 generally didn’t feature more than 1 or 2 of those iirc.

Also... by all means glimmer's actions were... nearly as bad as catra's because she knowingly set off a super weapon that was going to kill innocent people - including the ones in the horde (re: the previous episodes literally dealt with the rebellion realising that the horde went hard with the propaganda and cruelty and that adora wasn't an exception but mostly likely one of many. A lot of episodes featuring lonnie and kyle generally deal with their humanity - as did scorpia's episodes which is why we were rooting for them to join the good gang in the first place). Entrapta is equally guilty and complicit too although she tends to get excused just because she works behind the scenes and is generally present for comic relief - working for a fascist empire and supplying it with powerful weapons that enables it to hurt the native people on massive scales is by no means a small matter. But she was also a victim of abuse - the horde manipulated her and preyed on her insecurities of being a bad friend to coerce her into working for them - which is why when she was able to find a sense of kinship with hordak and she clung to it so desperately since it essentially provided her the company she craved without comprising on the research part.

Part of this just has to do with it being a show for kids - the other part has to do with how the princesses and their people choose to focus on rehabilitation and healing rather than imprisonment and abuse - it's why bright moon doesn't have a prison in the first place.

_____________

And to be fair! I think adora was right in moving on past catra in season 1, or at least doesn't deserve to be given a hard time about it. She had her own personal beliefs and values to uphold and catra was not willing to change - but it's also important to understand that the situation was so much more complex, like you said. Essentially: Adora could've tried better. Catra could've tried better. But shadow weaver's abuse deeply affected both of them to the point where adora leapt at the first opportunity to sacrifice herself every single time to make up for her years of ignorance and catra's mental health took a down spiral especially after shadow weaver used her to escape prison and gave her the impression that no one in the world truly cared about her. Every time somebody showed her the smallest hint of kindness, catra believed there was some sort of artifice or ulterior motive behind it and responded in kind by being mean - it was her defence mechanism!

Like I know all of this might be a little hard to miss on the first watch but it's pretty blatantly obvious on a rewatch. I don't consider this a meta post at all or my attempt at digging for a deeper meaning in the show - it's there, it's obvious, and the show is MEANT to explore the abuse queer people face at the hands of fascist empires, abusive parental figures, religious institutions, and discuss how they're brought up to believe that their desire is wrong and to unlearn that and realise that they deserve love too. 

[constant-eggs]

I’ve been seeing a lot of posts about William on Supergirl from fellow Supercorp shippers, so I wanna talk a bit about Kara and Lena’s love interests and how they are viewed, and also about racism in the show and fandom. This has probably been done to death but I’m new to the fandom — I binge watched the show over the winter and just started using Tumblr in a real way about a month ago. So anyway, back to the men:

There’s the major three: James, Mon-El, and William. Jack is cool too — he should’ve had more than two episodes which is part of the issue I’m going to get to, but he never got to be a major player.

So let’s talk about James. Now, I liked him a lot, particularly in season 1. Of the three main love interests for Kara, he was the only one who (season 1) writers took time to establish as a character separate from her. He had hopes and a backstory (of course), and his own idealism that usually uplifted and sometimes contradicted with Kara’s. He was honest, and vulnerable, and when he made a mistake (like calling Superman against Kara’s wishes) he grew from them. Because he respected Kara, and himself. Now the chemistry between Kara and James for me felt good — it wasn’t earth shattering — but it was typical in what I’d come to expect from a heterosexual pairing. And I would argue that had the writers not done a complete 180 on Kara’s feelings for James in S2 and had let them keep growing together as characters, that the chemistry and relationship could have been really good. But they didn’t because as the writers themselves said, they’re ‘in the drama business.’ So having a healthy, supportive partner for Kara wasn’t their priority, James was sidelined, and then they never figured out what to do with his character from that moment on. Also, I do think that race played a part in the writers’ decision to change direction with their relationship, and it’s...disheartening.

Now real briefly on James with Lena: it reminded me a lot of Laurel 1 and Oliver — when they talked about each other to other people— I believed that there was love, but when they were together, I didn’t see any real spark. Even their drama wasn’t particularly interesting — so I won’t even get into it. But it’s been long enough in this post for me to get to the point of it: the fault of the deterioration of James as a character lies with the writers. They chose to sideline him, have his values constantly shift, and have his character development stagnate post S1. He could’ve had interesting stories as Guardian, could’ve worked more closely with Kara when he replaced Cat Grant, or any number of things. But his potential was squandered. And if they were so dead set on having a male love interest for Kara, he was their best option of the three.

Mon-El and Kara had chemistry. To me, it was very much sibling chemistry in nature, which is kind of funny considering that in the comics he was a pseudo brother to Superman. To be clear I’m talking about Kara and Mon-El and not Chris and Melissa who are married, because they aren’t their characters. That’s how I think he should have stayed — as an antagonistic, shallow brother type who slooowly became decent through character growth and not specifically to become Kara’s love interest. But the handful of times Mon-El did the right thing — rebelling against his parents, trying to be a hero etc. it was because he liked Kara. How boring is that? As a love interest he was subpar — and he continued to be a liar. I don’t hate him like some fans do — and I’m well aware that he was a shallow partner who owned other people on his planet, and a habitual liar. I also see that this show is fantastical in nature where I am rooting for Lena after nearly mind-enslaving the entire population just last season. And also in a universe where a primary hero — Oliver Queen, was a serial killer (as are Laurel 2, Sara Lance, and Mick Rory to name a few). So that isn’t the main reason why I don’t like Mon-El for Kara. I just feel as early Kara felt: She deserves so much better than him.

What is there even to say about William? He’s essentially the audience in character form — the chorus in an Ancient Greek play telling us how we should feel about whatever action he’s being sidelined from. If they wanted him to be endgame, he should’ve been introduced bare minimum a season earlier to give him a fair shot. He needs to be better integrated in the fold, and at this point there isn’t a lot of time to do that well.

I’m making this post though because I don’t agree with some of what I’m seeing in fandom. Yes, I too dislike Mon-El as a love interest for Kara, but I’m not going to yuck someone else’s yum. Same goes for William and James. If you see something romantic, that’s okay. If you’re a multi shipper, that’s okay too. I was into other Arrowverse shows when Karamel and Supercorp animosity was at its highest and saw some of what went on and now I see some people uniting over their mutual dislike for William. But his underdevelopment as a character is once again entirely on the writers and execs. Not Staz Nair. And @motorcyclegirlfriends has a much more nuanced post about how race plays into characters being empathized within fandom and the screen time they are allotted by writers and directors. https://motorcyclegirlfriends.tumblr.com/post/649196192472924160/what-a-lot-of-the-nice-fellow-fans-dont-harass

We shouldn’t be tearing down actors of color or characters of color out of frustration over (potentially/hopefully) queer (white) characters. We should instead be asking for them to have more well rounded stories, just as we ask for better LGBT rep — the two aren’t separate. If Supercorp doesn’t become canon it won’t be because of the subpar heterosexual romances they were given. It will be because the writers see the love story they’ve created, inadvertently or otherwise (even doubling down on it in S5) but chose to ignore it. I really hope that isn’t the case. Us fans deserve more complex, messy slowburn romances, and Supercorp could be up there with She-Ra as one of the best ever portrayed. Here’s to hoping.

[pinky369]

another thing about this argument that makes me mad is that the whole going after the coach thing should’ve even be an argument at all. Why would Spencer want to play for someone that’s potentially crooked ?? Who wouldn’t want that to be exposed ?? I wouldn’t want people I love to be working under someone that could mess it all up for them, which is where Liv and Billy is coming from. It’s just the way they’re doing that’s so messed up.

After they had Liv confront her parents and brother about them putting their careers above her and have her be and feel neglected/overlooked by those she loved because of their careers (and it was also a problem in her past relationships), y’all really expect me to believe that Liv would put her career above the people she loves ??? THAT IS COMPLETE BS AND GOES AGAINST HER CHARACTER AND FOR WHAT ??? I’m rooting for her to finally put herself first, something that she hasn’t been able to do within the whole show, but they could’ve and should’ve had her do it differently and write it differently. I’m just waiting and demanding they do a deep dive into her character and mental health in S5.

Then with Spencer, he would never work for someone that’s potentially crooked or full of ish. That’s what they acknowledged in S2 when Clint (the guy that was bothering Billy and trying to run his team when he was with Beverly) tried to work with Spencer and Spencer could see right through him. Now, he’s potentially mad at Olivia for writing about his coach ?? Especially when this coach has treated him like trash since he came there and even said to his face that he wasn’t supposed to be there/didn’t deserve to be there ?? Y’all can’t expect for us to buy this, especially when Spencer said to Olivia in the episode prior (which is literally TWO DAYS before the finale) that he doesn’t care if her work implodes him and his team and doesn’t want her to sacrifice herself but now it’s a problem since it’s his coach ??? And why have Olivia write about things so close to home when there’s PLENTY of other things to write about ??? Like again, BOTH PEOPLE ARE OUT OF CHARACTER

they seriously need to do better with S5. They need to listen to what people are saying cause when everyone is calling BS on your writing and knows that you have both of them acting out of character and knows that this angst and drama is very forced and contrived, that’s when you know you messed up and you need to acknowledge it and fix it.

For everyone that wanted this angst and breakup so badly, I hope y’all are satisfied cause while I love angst (especially with spelivia cause they serve it SO WELL), I want the angst to MAKE SENSE WITH THE CHARACTERS and this angst doesn’t make any type of sense at all and it’s very disappointing.