#ad groups in Google Ads

[escapenevolve]

Google Ads Hierarchy: Because Messy Ads Don’t Convert!

Your Google Ads account deserves better than chaos. 🌱 Learn how ad groups and hierarchy can turn your campaigns into conversion machines! 🚀 #GoogleAds #DigitalMarketing #PPCSuccess

Imagine you’re building a digital greenhouse to sell your beautiful plants online. You wouldn’t just throw all your plants into one big pile and hope customers find what they want, right? That’s chaos. Instead, you’d organize them—succulents here, bonsais there, and flowering plants in another section. This is exactly how Google Ads account hierarchy works—it’s the art of organizing your…

[mostlysignssomeportents]

Google is (still) losing the spam wars to zombie news-brands

I'm touring my new, nationally bestselling novel The Bezzle! Catch me TONIGHT (May 3) in CALGARY, then TOMORROW (May 4) in VANCOUVER, then onto Tartu, Estonia, and beyond!

Even Google admits – grudgingly – that it is losing the spam wars. The explosive proliferation of botshit has supercharged the sleazy "search engine optimization" business, such that results to common queries are 50% Google ads to spam sites, and 50% links to spam sites that tricked Google into a high rank (without paying for an ad):

https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2024/03/core-update-spam-policies#site-reputation

It's nice that Google has finally stopped gaslighting the rest of us with claims that its search was still the same bedrock utility that so many of us relied upon as a key piece of internet infrastructure. This not only feels wildly wrong, it is empirically, provably false:

https://downloads.webis.de/publications/papers/bevendorff_2024a.pdf

Not only that, but we know why Google search sucks. Memos released as part of the DOJ's antitrust case against Google reveal that the company deliberately chose to worsen search quality to increase the number of queries you'd have to make (and the number of ads you'd have to see) to find a decent result:

https://pluralistic.net/2024/04/24/naming-names/#prabhakar-raghavan

Google's antitrust case turns on the idea that the company bought its way to dominance, spending the some of the billions it extracted from advertisers and publishers to buy the default position on every platform, so that no one ever tried another search engine, which meant that no one would invest in another search engine, either.

Google's tacit defense is that its monopoly billions only incidentally fund these kind of anticompetitive deals. Mostly, Google says, it uses its billions to build the greatest search engine, ad platform, mobile OS, etc that the public could dream of. Only a company as big as Google (says Google) can afford to fund the R&D and security to keep its platform useful for the rest of us.

That's the "monopolistic bargain" – let the monopolist become a dictator, and they will be a benevolent dictator. Shriven of "wasteful competition," the monopolist can split their profits with the public by funding public goods and the public interest.

Google has clearly reneged on that bargain. A company experiencing the dramatic security failures and declining quality should be pouring everything it has to righting the ship. Instead, Google repeatedly blew tens of billions of dollars on stock buybacks while doing mass layoffs:

https://pluralistic.net/2024/02/21/im-feeling-unlucky/#not-up-to-the-task

Those layoffs have now reached the company's "core" teams, even as its core services continue to decay:

https://qz.com/google-is-laying-off-hundreds-as-it-moves-core-jobs-abr-1851449528

(Google's antitrust trial was shrouded in secrecy, thanks to the judge's deference to the company's insistence on confidentiality. The case is moving along though, and warrants your continued attention:)

https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/the-2-trillion-secret-trial-against

Google wormed its way into so many corners of our lives that its enshittification keeps erupting in odd places, like ordering takeout food:

https://pluralistic.net/2023/02/24/passive-income/#swiss-cheese-security

Back in February, Housefresh – a rigorous review site for home air purifiers – published a viral, damning account of how Google had allowed itself to be overrun by spammers who purport to provide reviews of air purifiers, but who do little to no testing and often employ AI chatbots to write automated garbage:

https://housefresh.com/david-vs-digital-goliaths/

In the months since, Housefresh's Gisele Navarro has continued to fight for the survival of her high-quality air purifier review site, and has received many tips from insiders at the spam-farms and Google, all of which she recounts in a followup essay:

https://housefresh.com/how-google-decimated-housefresh/

One of the worst offenders in spam wars is Dotdash Meredith, a content-farm that "publishes" multiple websites that recycle parts of each others' content in order to climb to the top search slots for lucrative product review spots, which can be monetized via affiliate links.

A Dotdash Meredith insider told Navarro that the company uses a tactic called "keyword swarming" to push high-quality independent sites off the top of Google and replace them with its own garbage reviews. When Dotdash Meredith finds an independent site that occupies the top results for a lucrative Google result, they "swarm a smaller site’s foothold on one or two articles by essentially publishing 10 articles [on the topic] and beefing up [Dotdash Meredith sites’] authority."

Dotdash Meredith has keyword swarmed a large number of topics. from air purifiers to slow cookers to posture correctors for back-pain:

https://housefresh.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/keyword-swarming-dotdash.jpg

The company isn't shy about this. Its own shareholder communications boast about it. What's more, it has competition.

Take Forbes, an actual news-site, which has a whole shadow-empire of web-pages reviewing products for puppies, dogs, kittens and cats, all of which link to high affiliate-fee-generating pet insurance products. These reviews are not good, but they are treasured by Google's algorithm, which views them as a part of Forbes's legitimate news-publishing operation and lets them draft on Forbes's authority.

This side-hustle for Forbes comes at a cost for the rest of us, though. The reviewers who actually put in the hard work to figure out which pet products are worth your money (and which ones are bad, defective or dangerous) are crowded off the front page of Google and eventually disappear, leaving behind nothing but semi-automated SEO garbage from Forbes:

https://twitter.com/ichbinGisele/status/1642481590524583936

There's a name for this: "site reputation abuse." That's when a site perverts its current – or past – practice of publishing high-quality materials to trick Google into giving the site a high ranking. Think of how Deadspin's private equity grifter owners turned it into a site full of casino affiliate spam:

https://www.404media.co/who-owns-deadspin-now-lineup-publishing/

The same thing happened to the venerable Money magazine:

https://moneygroup.pr/

Money is one of the many sites whose air purifier reviews Google gives preference to, despite the fact that they do no testing. According to Google, Money is also a reliable source of information on reprogramming your garage-door opener, buying a paint-sprayer, etc:

https://money.com/best-paint-sprayer/

All of this is made ten million times worse by AI, which can spray out superficially plausible botshit in superhuman quantities, letting spammers produce thousands of variations on their shitty reviews, flooding the zone with bullshit in classic Steve Bannon style:

https://escapecollective.com/commerce-content-is-breaking-product-reviews/

As Gizmodo, Sports Illustrated and USA Today have learned the hard way, AI can't write factual news pieces. But it can pump out bullshit written for the express purpose of drafting on the good work human journalists have done and tricking Google – the search engine 90% of us rely on – into upranking bullshit at the expense of high-quality information.

A variety of AI service bureaux have popped up to provide AI botshit as a service to news brands. While Navarro doesn't say so, I'm willing to bet that for news bosses, outsourcing your botshit scams to a third party is considered an excellent way of avoiding your journalists' wrath. The biggest botshit-as-a-service company is ASR Group (which also uses the alias Advon Commerce).

Advon claims that its botshit is, in fact, written by humans. But Advon's employees' Linkedin profiles tell a different story, boasting of their mastery of AI tools in the industrial-scale production of botshit:

https://housefresh.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Advon-AI-LinkedIn.jpg

Now, none of this is particularly sophisticated. It doesn't take much discernment to spot when a site is engaged in "site reputation abuse." Presumably, the 12,000 googlers the company fired last year could have been employed to check the top review keyword results manually every couple of days and permaban any site caught cheating this way.

Instead, Google is has announced a change in policy: starting May 5, the company will downrank any site caught engaged in site reputation abuse. However, the company takes a very narrow view of site reputation abuse, limiting punishments to sites that employ third parties to generate or uprank their botshit. Companies that produce their botshit in-house are seemingly not covered by this policy.

As Navarro writes, some sites – like Forbes – have prepared for May 5 by blocking their botshit sections from Google's crawler. This can't be their permanent strategy, though – either they'll have to kill the section or bring it in-house to comply with Google's rules. Bringing things in house isn't that hard: US News and World Report is advertising for an SEO editor who will publish 70-80 posts per month, doubtless each one a masterpiece of high-quality, carefully researched material of great value to Google's users:

https://twitter.com/dannyashton/status/1777408051357585425

As Navarro points out, Google is palpably reluctant to target the largest, best-funded spammers. Its March 2024 update kicked many garbage AI sites out of the index – but only small bottom-feeders, not large, once-respected publications that have been colonized by private equity spam-farmers.

All of this comes at a price, and it's only incidentally paid by legitimate sites like Housefresh. The real price is borne by all of us, who are funneled by the 90%-market-share search engine into "review" sites that push low quality, high-price products. Housefresh's top budget air purifier costs $79. That's hundreds of dollars cheaper than the "budget" pick at other sites, who largely perform no original research.

Google search has a problem. AI botshit is dominating Google's search results, and it's not just in product reviews. Searches for infrastructure code samples are dominated by botshit code generated by Pulumi AI, whose chatbot hallucinates nonexistence AWS features:

https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/01/pulumi_ai_pollution_of_search/

This is hugely consequential: when these "hallucinations" slip through into production code, they create huge vulnerabilities for widespread malicious exploitation:

https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/28/ai_bots_hallucinate_software_packages/

We've put all our eggs in Google's basket, and Google's dropped the basket – but it doesn't matter because they can spend $20b/year bribing Apple to make sure no one ever tries a rival search engine on Ios or Safari:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/google-payments-apple-reached-20-220947331.html

Google's response – laying off core developers, outsourcing to low-waged territories with weak labor protections and spending billions on stock buybacks – presents a picture of a company that is too big to care:

https://pluralistic.net/2024/04/04/teach-me-how-to-shruggie/#kagi

Google promised us a quid-pro-quo: let them be the single, authoritative portal ("organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful"), and they will earn that spot by being the best search there is:

https://www.ft.com/content/b9eb3180-2a6e-41eb-91fe-2ab5942d4150

But – like the spammers at the top of its search result pages – Google didn't earn its spot at the center of our digital lives.

It cheated.

If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this post to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

https://pluralistic.net/2024/05/03/keyword-swarming/#site-reputation-abuse

Image: freezelight (modified) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spam_wall_-_Flickr_-_freezelight.jpg

CC BY-SA 2.0 https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/deed.en

[inkskinned]

it is all chaos and entropy. the thing is that the chaos and entropy make it beautiful and lovely.

yes, it's true that nature and the universe are uncaring and unspecific, and that is terrifying. i have lived through some of the unfairness - i got born like this, with my body caving into itself, with this ironic love of dance when i sometimes can't stand up for longer than 15 minutes. i am a poet with hands that are slowly shutting down - i can't hold a pen some days. recently i found a dead bird on our front porch. she had no visible injuries. she had just died, the way things die sometimes.

it is also true that nature and the universe are uncaring and unspecific, and that is wonderful. the sheer happenstance that makes rain turn into a rainbow. the impossible coincidence of finding your best friend. i have made so many mistakes and i have let myself down and i have harmed other people by accident. nature moves anyway. on the worst day of my life she delivers me an orange juice sunset, as if she is saying try again tomorrow.

how vast and unknowing the universe! how small we are! isn't that lovely. the universe has given us flowers and harp strings and the shape of clouds. how massive our lives are in comparison to a grasshopper. the world so bright, still undiscovered. even after 30 years of being on this earth, i learned about a new type of animal today: the dhole.

chance echoing in my life like a harmony between two people talking. do you think you and i, living in different worlds but connected through the internet - do you think we've ever seen the same butterfly? they migrate thousands of miles. it's possible, right?

how beautiful the ways we fill the vastness of space. i love that when large amounts of people are applauding in a room, they all start clapping at the same time. i love that the ocean reminds us of our mother's heartbeat. i love that out of all the colors, chlorophyll chose green. i love the coincidences. i love the places where science says i don't know, but it just happens.

"the universe doesn't care about you!" oh, i know. that's okay. i care about the universe. i will put my big stupid heart out into it and watch the universe feast on it. it is not painful. it is strange - the more love you pour into the unfeeling world, the more it feels the world loves you in return. i know it's confirmation bias. i think i'm okay if my proof of kindness is just my own body and my own spirit.

i buried the bird from our porch deep in the woods. that same day, an old friend reaches out to me and says i miss you. wherever you go, no matter how bad it gets - you try to do good.

[twodiamondhoes]

I buy concert tickets for the first time in years and suddenly my targeted ads all assume that I am an avid concert goer

Leave me and my heretical furry band in peace 😭

[lordrakim]

Report alleges that microphones on devices are used for "Active Listening" to deliver targeted ads

A report suggests that a major advertising company has used the microphone of devices to spy on users to deliver targeted ads. A report published by 404 Media spills the beans about the controversy. The article is behind a paywall, but here’s what it talks about. Continue reading Report alleges that microphones on devices are used for “Active Listening” to deliver targeted ads

[getosbf]

When someone starts reading your fic who CLEARLY isnt as hyperfixated on the ship as you and your mutuals are and they leave actual logical replies and point out plot holes instead of going as feral as you and your mutuals

[the-promise-has-been-made]

NEW FISH JUST DROPPED

[exhibition-event]

Digital Marketing for Doctors & Clinics in India — Grow Your Practice Online

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#HealthcareMarketing #DigitalMarketingIndia #DoctorsOnline #ClinicSEO #TejaswiGroup #MedicalMarketing #IndiaDoctors

[familythings]

Is Your Phone Really Listening to You? The Shocking Truth Revealed!

You might think it’s just a wild conspiracy theory, but guess what? Your phone could totally be eavesdropping on what you say! Recently, Cox Media Group (CMG) dropped a bombshell, revealing that smartphones are listening in so they can serve up ads just for you. This juicy tidbit popped up during a pitch to investors, where the marketing crew—working with big names like Facebook and Google—showed…

[anxietyfrappuccino]

Audience Analysis

i know no one is going to see this, but could anyone with time to spare/burn fill out our group project survey?

it's 6 questions asking about google slides.

unbelievably simple, i promise.

[bestlyfe-seo-agency-atlanta]

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[curlicuecal]

playing science telephone

Hi folks. Let's play a fun game today called "unravelling bad science communication back to its source."

Journey with me.

Saw a comment going around on a tumblr thread that "sometimes the life expectancy of autism is cited in the 30s"

That number seemed..... strange. The commenter DID go on to say that that was "situational on people being awful and not… anything autism actually does", but you know what? Still a strange number. I feel compelled to fact check.

Quick Google "autism life expectancy" pulls up quite a few websites bandying around the number 39. Which is ~technically~ within the 30s, but already higher than the tumblr factoid would suggest. But, guess what. This number still sounds strange to me.

Most of the websites presenting this factoid present themselves as official autism resources and organizations (for parents, etc), and most of them vaguely wave towards "studies."

Ex: "Above And Beyond Therapy" has a whole article on "Does Autism Affect Life Expectancy" and states:

The link implies that it will take you to the "research studies" being referenced, but it in fact takes you to another random autism resource group called.... Songbird Care?

And on that website we find the factoid again:

Ooh, look. Now they've added the word "some". The average lifespan for SOME autistic people. Which the next group erased from the fact. The message shifts further.

And we have slightly more information about the study! (Which has also shifted from "studies" to a singular "study"). And we have another link!

Wonderfully, this link actually takes us to the actual peer-reviewed 2020 study being discussed. [x]

And here, just by reading the abstract, we find the most important information of all.

This study followed a cohort of adolescent and adult autistic people across a 20 year time period. Within that time period, 6.4% of the cohort died. Within that 6.4%, the average age of death was 39 years.

So this number is VERY MUCH not the average age of death for autistic people, or even the average age of death for the cohort of autistic people in that study. It is the average age of death IF you died young and within the 20 year period of the study (n=26), and also we don't even know the average starting age of participants without digging into earlier papers, except that it was 10 or older. (If you're curious, the researchers in the study suggested reduced self-sufficiency to be among the biggest risk factors for the early mortality group.)

But the number in the study has been removed from it's context, gradually modified and spread around the web, and modified some more, until it is pretty much a nonsense number that everyone is citing from everyone else.

There ARE two other numbers that pop up semi-frequently:

One cites the life expectancy at 58. I will leave finding the context for that number as an exercise for the audience, since none of the places I saw it gave a direct citation for where they were getting it.

And then, probably the best and most relevant number floating around out there (and the least frequently cited) draws from a 2023 study of over 17,000 UK people with an autism diagnosis, across 30 years. [x] This study estimated life expectancies between 70 and 77 years, varying with sex and presence/absence of a learning disability. (As compared to the UK 80-83 average for the population as a whole.)

This is a set of numbers that makes way more sense and is backed by way better data, but isn't quite as snappy a soundbite to pass around the internet. I'm gonna pass it around anyway, because I feel bad about how many scared internet people I stumbled across while doing this search.

People on quora like "I'm autistic, can I live past 38"-- honey, YES. omg.

---

tl;dr, when someone gives you a number out of context, consider that the context is probably important

also, make an amateur fact checker's life easier and CITE YOUR SOURCES

[gibbearish]

"can bi nbs say dyke" "can trans men say tranny" "can this specific identity reclaim this slur" ENOUGH !!! ALL that matters is whats in your heart when you say it. is there love for your community or is there hate for people not like you. are you saying it to hurt someone or to give a hurtful thing new love-filled meaning. theres your answer.

terfs are finding this now so just to head this off at the pass my tranny ass will not be debating you, you are going to be instantaneously blocked so you may as well save us both the trouble of typing out whatever long rant youre planning about how im an evil transsexual betraying the community by daring to call myself a faggot or w/e. also go fuck yourself

edit 2: hey terfies do you think perhaps that the fact you had to block me before purposefully starting fights with randos in my replies says something about the kind of people you are? do you think that's the kind of thing good people do? can you look yourself in the eyes and genuinely tell me that deep down you don't know that if you constantly have to lie and infiltrate and block evade to harass people, that just means youre a shit person? can you with a straight face say that doing these kinds of things actually feels morally sound, that there's no tiny sliver of yourself in there that knows youre acting like a piece of shit all the fucking time which is why everyone leaves you when they find out about your beliefs? could you honestly tell me that a person who acts like that is good, and that behaving like this actually makes you feel like you're adding something positive to the world? or is it just the rush that comes with punching a wall in rage?

you harass trans people for the same reason parents beat their children: it feels good to hurt other people when youre mad. it feels good to take your anger out on someone else. and so you find people you can hurt and you convince yourself youre doing it because theyre stronger than you, that youre fighting back, you punch and you punch and you keep punching on and on forever. because that anger is addicting and trans people have always and WILL always exist, so we will always be available as a target.

look at the way youre behaving and ask yourself if this is what you want to be doing with your life. and google the signs of a high-control group. and if youre going to be a piece of shit in my replies then at least don't be a major fucking coward about it. unless youre literally 12 you should not be arguing like a middle schooler starting fights about steven universe. grow the fuck up and get real problems

[itsaintmebabe]

pastel pink

୨୧ ‧₊˚ ⋅ pairing: oscar piastri x ballerina!reader

summary: oscar goes to a performance of swan lake and falls in love with the lead dancer who has no clue who he is or how formula one works

notes: this is just silly and kinda a celebration of 8 podiums in a row for oscar!!!

୨୧ ‧₊˚ ⋅ masterlist / social media au / fc: luna montana

liked by yourbff, user13 and 56,792 others

yourusername first show tonight!!!

view all comments

yourbff pls don’t break another toenail tonight i’m not emotionally ready to hold your foot again

↳ yourusername you’re acting like it wasn’t the most intimate moment of our friendship

yourmom hope you remembered to pack extra tights and snacks! dad’s already crying btw

↳ yourusername tell him to hydrate. it’s only act I

user9 you better flutter those arms like your rent depends on it

↳ yourusername joke’s on you it actually does 😭

user13 32 fouettés? in this economy?? ur braver than the troops

user28 swan lake opening night? girl this is basically ballet coachella

user12 i will be seated. i will be crying. i will be pretending to flap my arms in the lobby after

balletdirector just don’t fall off the stage this time and we’ll call it a win

↳ yourusername once again i fall ONCE and suddenly it’s my brand

liked by user86, user18 and 620,864 others

op81updates oscar seen with some other drivers at the royal opera house in london for opening night of the royal ballet’s performance of swan lake

view all comments

user19 do you think he knows what a fouetté is or is he just clapping when others clap

user24 big day for annoying people

user26 i saw him at stage door after the performance w some of the other drivers and it looked like lando was trying to hype him up to talk to the girl who played the lead?? idk her name tho sorry 😭😭

↳ user9 lando was 100% like “bro just say she was sick on stage” like he’s not helping at ALL

↳ user13 that might be @/yourusername???

↳ user3 IT IS Y/N

user7 i KNOW he googled “what to wear to the ballet” 30 mins before arriving

user16 r u joking i’m literally going tomorrow the universe hates me

yourusername just added to their close friends story!

liked by oscarpiastri, yourbff and 62,398 others

yourusername i blacked out in act 2 but the audience clapped so yay

view all comments

yourmom i screamed so loud when the curtain dropped i think the elderly man next to me flinched. beautiful job sweetheart

↳ yourusername thank u for not tackling anyone on the way out x

user31 you did not have to eat the role like that… but you did… for us

user21 omg this is the girl that lando was trying to hype oscar up to talk to

↳ user3 the way he’s just lurking in the likes like babe SAY SOMETHING

↳ user17 no cause i get i wouldn’t know what to say either she’s gorg

user43 bro saw her in act I and activated drs on his heart

↳ yourusername what is drs and why does it sound like a medical procedure

↳ user37 HELP SHE HAS NO CLUE

yourusername just added to their close friends story!

liked by oscarpiastri, yourbff and 129,994 others

yourusername chat what is drs help a girl out

view all comments

user12 deserved a trigger warning for the drive to survive jumpscare ngl

yourdad this the same aussie lad your mum mentioned? do i need to google him?

yourbff she's 3 google searches away from building a model of an f1 car in her flat i’m scared

user29 she’s asking what drs is while oscar is probably spiraling in a group chat like “do i explain it or do i stay mysterious”

oscarpiastri DRS is one of those things that’s easier to explain in person. over coffee. maybe tomorrow?

↳ yourusername ok yeah that sounds good!

↳ user64 i’m sorry WHAT

↳ user7 wait he kinda ate that up

yourusername just added to their story!

liked by oscarpiastri, user38 and 683,842 others

yourusername monaco for a little, barcelona soon!

view all comments

user59 i know that back…

yourbff girl if this is who i think it is you better tell me before the group chat burns down

user48 you have the life of a 2007 Barbie movie protagonist. i’m so proud of u queen

user36 THAT IS OSCAR. WE KNOW THAT BACK. STOP THIS.

↳ yourusername oscar who?? my pilates instructor’s name is ben tho

↳ user21 oh she hates us

user81 don’t care if this isn’t confirmed. this is MY headcanon now.

liked by yourusername, mclaren and 1,482,048 others

oscarpiastri rest week

view all comments

user34 okay they are barely even hiding it anymore

charles_leclerc monaco is good for the heart i see

user15 do you think we wouldn’t recognize the hair?? WE FOLLOW HER TOO OSCAR.

user21 this the same girl from the stage door rumor??? bc if so 👏🏼 good 👏🏼 for 👏🏼 you 👏🏼

lando i help you pick a perfect caption and yet its now two words wth

↳ oscarpiastri someone didn’t like your caption very much sorry

↳ lando she’s changed you, you used to listen to me

↳ oscarpiastri 🤷‍♂️

↳ user37 SHE????

nicolepiastri would love to meet your new friend in barcelona if she’s going

↳ oscarpiastri mum please

yourusername just added to their story!

liked by oscarpiastri, mclaren and 921,632 others

yourusername barcelona!

view all comments

yourbff “barcelona!” girl that’s a man

user92 girl just tag him at this point we're EXHAUSTED

user38 so you’re going to the spanish gp right???

hattiepiastri how did you make my brother look cool for once

↳ yourusername i think it might just be part of my talent imma try to get him out of the athletic shorts next

↳ hattiepiastri oh thank god

user12 the way oscar was like the first like oml

alexandrasaintmleux can’t wait to meet you this weekend!!!

↳ yourusername me too!! <3

user18 y/n who’s your fav driver??

↳ yourusername i think his number is 81 or 18 idk tho

↳ oscarpiastri ha ha very funny

yourusername just added to their story!

liked by oscarpiastri, yourbff and 897,926 others

yourusername still tryna figure out all the rules but my love won!!!

view all comments

user59 “my love” YEAH OKAY THIS IS NO LONGER A SOFT LAUNCH

user37 you posted this and my jaw literally fell off its hinges

oscarpiastri baby where did you get the third picture

↳ yourusername your mum loves me

↳ nicolepiastri let me know if you want me to send any more love!

↳ yourusername OFC I DO

↳ oscarpiastri oh my god

↳ user9 BABY????

user41 i signed up for ballet content now i’m emotionally invested in an australian man winning car races???

user13 this caption is giving “I don’t know what a gearbox does but I will kiss him post-win”

liked by yourusername, lando and 1,932,984 others

oscarpiastri great result with great company in barcelona

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user61 great result? i’m gonna need you to define “great” because this is LIFE-ALTERING

lando glad it worked out because my favorite part of this whole thing was at stage door when you said “hi” and then stood there blinking at her for 15 seconds

↳ oscarpiastri that’s rich coming from someone who once said “bonjourno” to a ferrari exec

user76 she’s glowing. he’s glowing. i’m sobbing.

user93 they showed y/n during the race broadcast and had the “oscar piastri’s partner” thing and i literally jumped up from my couch

yourusername you should be covered in champagne more often

↳ oscarpiastri baby please 😭

↳ user48 bro is abt to get pulled aside by his pr manager

[jadevine]

Preindustrial travel, and long explanations on why different distances are like that

Update March 1, 2024: Hey there folks, here's yet another update! I reposted Part 2a (the "medieval warhorses" tangent) to my writing blog, and I went down MORE of the horse-knowledge rabbit hole! https://www.tumblr.com/jadevine/741423906984951808/my-post-got-cut-off-so-i-added-the-rest-of-it Update Jan 30, 2024: Hey folks, I've posted the updated version of this post on my blog, so I don't have to keep frantically telling everyone "hey, that's the old version of this post!" https://thebalangay.wordpress.com/2024/01/29/preindustrial-travel-times-part-1/

I should get the posts about army travel times and camp followers reformatted and posted to my blog around the end of the week, so I'll filter through my extremely tangled thread for them.

Part 2 - Preindustrial ARMY travel times: https://www.tumblr.com/jadevine/739342239113871360/now-for-a-key-aspect-that-many-people-often-ask

Part 2a - How realistic warhorses look and act, because the myth of "all knights were mounted on huge clunky draft horses" just refuses to die: https://www.tumblr.com/jadevine/732043691180605440/helpful-things-for-action-writers-to-remember

Part 3 - Additional note about camp followers being regular workers AND sex-workers: https://www.tumblr.com/jadevine/740604203134828544/reblogging-the-time-looped-version-of-my

--

I saw a post on my main blog about how hiking groups need to keep pace with their slowest member, but many hikers mistakenly think that the point of hiking is "get from Point A to Point B as fast as possible" instead of "spending time outdoors in nature with friends," and then they complain that a new/less-experienced/sick/disabled hiker is spoiling their time-frame by constantly needing breaks, or huffing and puffing to catch up.

I run into a related question of "how long does it take to travel from Point A to Point B on horseback?" a lot, as a fantasy writer who wants to be SEMI-realistic; in the Western world at least, our post-industrial minds have largely forgotten what it's like to travel, both on our own feet and in groups.

People ask the new writer, "well, who in your cast is traveling? Is getting to Point B an emergency or not? What time of year is it?", and the newbies often get confused as to why they need so much information for "travel times." Maybe new writers see lists of "preindustrial travel times" like a primitive version of Google Maps, where all you need to do is plug in Point A and Point B.

But see, Google Maps DOES account for traveling delays, like different routes, constructions, accidents, and weather; you as the person will also need to figure in whether you're driving a car versus taking a bus/train, and so you'll need to figure out parking time or waiting time for the bus/train to actually GET THERE.

The difference between us and preindustrial travelers is that 1) we can outsource the calculations now, 2) we often travel for FUN instead of necessity.

The general rule of thumb for preindustrial times is that a healthy and prime-aged adult on foot, or a rider/horse pair of fit and prime-aged adults, can usually make 20-30 miles per day, in fair weather and on good terrain.

Why is this so specific? Because not everyone in preindustrial times was fit, not everyone was healthy, not everyone was between the ages of 20-35ish, and not everyone had nice clear skies and good terrain to travel on.

If you are too far below 18 years old or too far past 40, at best you will need either a slower pace or more frequent breaks to cover the same distance, and at worst you'll cut the travel distance in half to 10 or so miles. Too much walking is VERY BAD on too-young/old knees, and teenagers or very short adults may just have short legs even if they're fine with 8-10 hours of actual walking. Young children may get sick of walking and pitch a fit because THEY'RE TIREDDDDDDDDDD, and then you might need to stay put while they cry it out, or an adult may sigh and haul them over their shoulder (and therefore be weighed down by about 50lbs of Angry Child).

Heavy forests, wetlands and rocky hills/mountains are also going to be a much shorter "distance" per day. For forests or wetlands, you have to account for a lot of villagers going "who's gonna cut down acres of trees for one road? NOT ME," or "who's gonna drain acres of swamp for one road? NOT ME." Mountainous regions have their traveling time eaten by going UP, or finding a safer path that goes AROUND, so by the time you're done slogging through drier patches of wetlands or squeezing through trees, a deceptively short 10-15 miles in rough terrain might take you a whole day to walk instead of the usual half-day.

If you are traveling in freezing winters or during a rainstorm (and this inherently means you HAVE NO CHOICE, because nobody in preindustrial times would travel in bad weather if they could help it), you run the high risk of losing your way and then dying of exposure or slipping and breaking your neck, just a few miles out of the town/village.

Traveling in TOO-HOT weather is just as bad, because pushing yourself too hard and getting dehydrated at noon in the tropics will literally kill you. It's called heat-STROKE, not "heat-PARTY."

And now for the upper range of "traveling on horseback!"

Fully mounted groups can usually make 30-40 miles per day between Point A and Point B, but I find there are two unspoken requirements: "Point B must have enough food for all those people and horses," and "the mounted party DOESN'T need to keep pace with foot soldiers, camp followers, or supply wagons."

This means your mounted party would be traveling to 1) a rendezvous point like an ally's camp or a noble's castle, or 2) a town/city with plenty of inns. Maybe they're not literally going 30-40 miles in one trip, but they're scouting the area for 15-20 miles and then returning to their main group. Perhaps they'd be going to an allied village, but even a relatively small group of 10-20 warhorses will need 10-20 pounds of grain EACH and 20-30 pounds of hay EACH. 100-400 pounds of grain and 200-600 pounds of hay for the horses alone means that you need to stash supplies at the village beforehand, or the village needs to be a very large/prosperous one to have a guaranteed large surplus of food.

A dead sprint of 50-60 miles per day is possible for a preindustrial mounted pair, IF YOU REALLY, REALLY HAVE TO. Moreover, that is for ONE day. Many articles agree that 40 miles per day is already a hard ride, so 50-60 miles is REALLY pushing the envelope on horse and rider limits.

NOTE: While modern-day endurance rides routinely go for 50-100 miles in one day, remember that a preindustrial rider will not have the medical/logistical support that a modern endurance rider and their horse does.

If you say "they went fifty miles in a day" in most preindustrial times, the horse and rider's bodies will get wrecked. Either the person, their horse, or both, risk dying of exhaustion or getting disabled from the strain.

Whether you and your horse are fit enough to handle it and "only" have several days of defenselessness from severe pain/fatigue (and thus rely on family/friends to help you out), or you die as a heroic sacrifice, or you aren't QUITE fit enough and become disabled, or you get flat-out saved by magic or another rider who volunteers to go the other half, going past 40 miles in a day is a "Gondor Calls For Aid" level of emergency.

As a writer, I feel this kind of feat should be placed VERY carefully in a story: Either at the beginning to kick the plot off, at the climax to turn the tide, or at the end.

Preindustrial people were people--some treated their horses as tools/vehicles, and didn't care if they were killed or disabled by pushing them to their limits, but others very much cared for their horses. They needed to keep them in working condition for about 15-20 years, and they would not dream of doing this without a VERY good reason.

—

UPDATE January 13: Several people have gotten curious and looked at maps, to find out how a lot of cities are indeed spread out at a nice distance of 20-30 miles apart! I love getting people interested in my hyperfixations, lol.

But remember that this is the space between CITIES AND TOWNS. There should never be a 20-mile stretch of empty wilderness between City A and Town B, unless your world explains why folks are able to build a city in the middle of nowhere, or if something has specifically gone wrong to wipe out its supporting villages!

Period pieces often portray a shining city rising from a sea of picturesque empty land, without a single grain field or cow pasture in sight, but that city would starve to death very quickly in preindustrial times.

Why? Because as Bret Devereaux mentions in his “Lonely Cities” article (https://acoup.blog/2019/07/12/collections-the-lonely-city-part-i-the-ideal-city/), preindustrial cities and towns must have nearby villages (and even smaller towns, if large and prosperous enough!) to grow their food for them.

The settlements around a city will usually be scattered a few miles apart from each other, usually clustered along the roads to the city gates. Those villages and towns at the halfway point between cities (say 10-15 miles) are going to be essential stops for older/sick folks, merchants with cargo, and large groups like noble’s retinues and army forces.

Preindustrial armies and large noble retinues usually can’t make it far past 10-12 miles per day, as denoted in my addition to this post. (https://www.tumblr.com/jadevine/739342239113871360/now-for-a-key-aspect-that-many-people-often-ask )

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