#and above all he is his own person

[soo-won]

do you think soowon is sociopath? i saw some fans saying he lacks empathy and i don't think he does.

Hey Anon! Thank you for the ask :) I didn't expect to receive that kind of question that was the heart of debates years ago, but I'm more than happy to reply!

Very long answer below the cut. Sorry for being unable to be brief, there's nothing that I love more than talking about Suwon and his emotions!

Short answer is no I don't think Suwon is a sociopath, at all.

I've read people say that many times, especially in response to chapter 196, I don't know if that's what you have in mind. From personal experience, I've never seen anyone call him a sociopath know what that word really means or not being a Suwon-anti and I think most of the time people say this in the pejorative "cold and emotionless" way. The manga has shown countless times the range of Suwon's emotions, and to imply he doesn't feel anything is just, wrong (Kusanagi stated it explicitely too). I guess it's understandable for series going on for years like akayona, but I feel like it's a common mistake to read a chapter as a standalone and not something that adds to what was established before. Like, it's not because the diary and castle arc showed new sides of Suwon (through the eyes of other characters on top of that) and in specific circumstances that it invalidates everything shown to us about him before. It's one piece of the puzzle for sure, but nothing less nothing more. I'm no psychiatrist and I'm not qualified to give anyone any kind of diagnostic, but Suwon feels very much, and he feels guilt, is even paralyzed by it at times and it is sometimes an obstacle to him. Suwon is all about discarding feelings, and for that to be a thing, feelings have to be there to begin with. From what I know about sociopathy, this isn't it. And even if he was, that wouldn't make him any less lovable and deserving of compassion to me.

Now on empathy specifically, it's more arguable, but I don't see lacking empathy as something inherently wrong that makes someone broken or cold. What you feel or not doesn't matter in my opinion, it's what you do to care for others. So like, yeah, if you compare with Yona I guess you could say Yona is more empathic than Suwon, but in no way that alone would make her a better person than him(I don't want to make this about Suwon vs Yona, she was just the first character to come to mind).

Lack of empathy is also not exclusively a sociopath thing. Like, everyone feels it to a different degree and there is a lot factors that can be at play.

Suwon feels and thinks differently, his differences with characters like Meinyan, Yona and Hak being the most obvious examples of that, and it's one of the many things that make me see him as neurodivergent in some way. But in the end, whether he feels empathy or not is not important. Or like, yeah, it can be interesting to explore, but it isn't relevant to define him in the slightest.

That being said, let's talk about what we know. First, what we know for sure, is that he cares! And even if you admit he doesn't have the same level of empathy as others, he tries to help when he can and if it's not in the way of his goals. Whether it's when he was a child comforting Yona and his mother, or reassuring an insecure Lili, or again, trying to comfort a trembling Yona in the way he knows best. It's something that comes naturally to him, something that very much makes him, him. Suwon is someone who wants to help, and who finds joy in making others happy.

He is also intelligent, can understand how people think and feel, and why people act the way they do. He is able to sense very young that Il doesn't like him. He was able to give Yona exactly what she needed when she was mourning her mother. In the present, Suwon understands why Yona or Hak would want to kill him, or how his words would only upset them because he is able to put himself in their shoes. (This, is different than empathy imo. Putting yourself in someone else' shoes is an effort you make to understand others, whether you feel what they feel) It's because he understands how people feels that he was able to come this far and unite the country like he did. He is able to play with how people perceive him to get the upper hand over them too. And he is very aware of the consequences of his colder decisions. Everytime he discards someone, he very much expects their hostility towards him and doesn't ask anything of them again. In my opinion Suwon just doesn't think in term of good vs bad. He can tell between the two in like how it matters to others, but it's not relevant to him, and he rather thinks in term of "is that thing on my way or not". (I think he does struggle to understand the extent of how people feel about him, though. He thinks logically, so it's hard for him to understand things that go against all logic, like Hak and Yona helping him after everything.)

Then I think it's important to mention the part of Suwon that shows a discardment of emotions and empathy, and Yuhon.

Actually, how much of that comes from how Yuhon raised him, the environment he grew up in, or from how he is inherently as a person is interesting sure, but not that relevant either. Whatever the roots of it, he is able to put his feelings on the side and stay composed in dire situations. But again, it doesn't mean he doesn't feel anything. And what the war against Kai shows is that his ability to not be affected by the deaths of his people is the reverse of the determination-turned-desperation to not lose against Kai. "Even death is acceptable"(his own included) he says to himself. The fact this is a thing he had to tell himself to begin with says a lot in my opinion. He was struggling, and had to remind himself repeatedly to not look back, to think about nothing but the war. Suwon has limits, even if he is more composed and determined than most, and when he reaches these limits he needs to cling onto his father's words, because otherwise he would falter and stop being able to think clearly.

Thanksfully this desperation turned back into his usual determination(still kinda fueled by the urgency of his situation) after the events of this battle. But like, Suwon is not at all a character that is a complete facade when he acts as a King and whose cold decisions go completely against his heart all the time. He really is the King not hesitating to take harsh decisions and make sacrifices to achieve his goals. He really is the King not unfazed in the slightest about losing his own castle and capital, and people dying in war for his cause. That's also what makes him, him, and something more than helpful in war where you have to deal with losses and unpredictable events all the time.

Going back to chapter 196, when Yonhi thinks to herself "How can he be so detached?" or when Yuhon's faction is impressed by how unfazed he was about investigating his own father's corpse, in no way it is that Suwon doesn't feel anything about his father or Yona. He so does. He is shown burning with anger, and he is shown not looking the least enthousiastic about killing Il. The situations and ways in which he expresses these emotions are simply not what you would usually expect from a child, but why should there be any rule about how someone is supposed to react and feel? There's nothing scary about that. When you stop to think about 2 seconds, is it that fearsome for someone to cope by taking the lead and prioritizing dealing with the problems at hand first, and being unable to process things emotionally? Like, isn't that pretty common? I can relate a lot to that personally. I guess what is surprising in this case is how Suwon is able to do it so young and to this extent, but it's nothing more than that. When Suwon asks Yonhi if she wants Il to die, and she gets scared of that, Suwon is genuinely asking too. Is that this far-fetched for him to assume Yonhi would want that when everyone else around him does? When revenge seems to be the very reason Il, supposed to be peace-loving, killed his father?

People might say that Suwon lacks empathy and maybe they wouldn't be wrong, but he constantly tries to understand what people want and answer to their expectations anyway. And I think that's what matters the most, even if he fails at it sometimes. He couldn't understand how Yonhi felt about Il in chapter 196, but he still tried hard to be what he thought she wanted from him: a replacement of Yuhon (Again, logical conclusion when that's what everyone else around him encourage). He still did all he could to comfort her, and he gave her strength.

He became the ideal King most of the generals and Yuhon faction wanted, and a lot of the issues in his relationship with Yona and Hak come from the fact he behaved in front of them as the Suwon they (used to think they) wanted. He cared for them genuinely, but he couldn't show the rest of him because it would go against the idealized image they had of him. Just like he can't show all of himself in front of his supporters either, because what they want is for him is a perfect, never faltering King, following Yuhon's footsteps. When it became impossible to be these two ideals at the same time, he discarded one. Suwon cares and loves, and this has nothing to do with empathy. He is both the caring friend and the pragmatic king and can't discard either.

Suwon might have less empathy than others, yet he is the one who acted to better the lives of his country's citizens, in contrast to Il, that sure, might be more empathic (except when it comes to Suwon visibly) yet barely acted on it.

I'm gonna stop here but I could go on forever. I hope it's not too much all over the place. Sorry I can't help it.

TDLR : no I don't think he is a sociopath, mainly because he feels guilt and regards what people think a lot, and all he does is never for his own personal benefit. But empathy or not, he cares and does his best. There is so much to explore about him, and basing the morality of a character on empathy is just not it. I think the fact he has such a different way of thinking compared to the rest of the main cast is what makes him so fresh and interesting and I wouldn't want him any other way. He doesn't give a fuck and idk it's funny and so cathartic sometimes. We should embrace that.

[foe-paw]

YOU THOUGHT THAT YOU COULD OUTSMART THE VERY THING THAT RUNS THE BLOOD OF YOUR KIND?

[mirrorhouse]

I have what you're looking for. High quality. Befitting a man of my tastes. I have a room over on Divisadero, not too far a walk.

[blueskittlesart]

do you have any thoughts on zelda not staying as a dragon? me personally I like it and am very cool with it mostly because I think zelda should get to be happy forever (and because I'm smart enough to know she changed back because of recall and not some ambiguous power of love lmao) but a lot of people seem to dislike that it made the draconification inconsequential?

i think there's like. some valid concerns surrounding inconsequentiality/"curing" the physical problems characters have as a way of giving them a "happy ending" but I think those concerns don't necessarily apply to totk in the way people seem to be applying them, especially irt zelda's draconification and link's arm.

most of the time when the criticism of this "magic cure" trope is applied to media, it's because the trope is used as a cure-all to erase a character's suffering or trauma and make them "normal" again, and often ignores the character development or themes of the story in favor of giving the character a happy ending. I don't think that applies to totk, though, because the "curing" link and zelda experience is both within the realm of possibility given the worldbuilding present in the game (recall could easily have done it, as you mentioned) AND thematically consistent with the rest of the game. One of if not the most important central themes of totk is the idea of failure and second chances. we see a hyrule that has been given a second chance after link's initial failure with the calamity brought it to the brink of destruction. we see characters who were deeply unhappy and entrenched in the shame of their precalamity mistakes like purah and zelda become active, beloved members of their communities. we see the people of lurelin village take back and rebuild their destroyed home. we watch this kingdom and its people make an unprecedented comeback after a century of struggle and ruin.

Similarly, totk's gameplay is LINK's second chance, his comeback from the initial mistake of losing zelda, of specifically being unable to reach her with his injured hand when they fell. The consequences of that--the master sword's corruption, the loss of his arm, and zelda's draconification, are all supposed to SEEM irreversible, because that's how LINK initially sees them. he believes that he doomed both himself and zelda all because of that SINGLE moment in which he wasn't enough, a viewpoint which is obviously left over from the pressure he experienced to perform to an impossible standard of perfection pre-calamity. The story of totk is about deconstructing that belief and proving it wrong. the mistake he made caused harm, but it's never too late to repair things. he can fix the regional phenomena ganondorf causes and rebuild those communities. he can revitalize the master sword. he can GET ZELDA BACK, with his own arm, uninjured and able to reach her this time. no matter how impossible those things may initially seem, no matter the perceived finality of his mistakes and their consequences, there is always hope. there is always a second chance. no one person's single mistake can doom an entire kingdom for eternity. the fate of hyrule was NEVER resting on link's shoulders alone. he was never their final hope. there was always going to be an after. the whole POINT of the draconification and the loss of link's arm is that they AREN'T final. they ARE inconsequential, because they were born of one mistake and ONE MISTAKE IS NOT THE END ALL.

[haunted-xander]

Thinking about how Thancred and Ryne's respective behaviours affect their dynamic and each other's behaviour in regards to said dynamic and how neither of them is actually directly caused by the circumstances, just exacerbated.

Thancred is reticent and guarded as a product of his enviourment and all his training and work as a spy, where vulnerability is a weakness and is like to get you and your loved ones hurt or killed. He's never had an opportunity or need to be open and vulnerable with people, as everyone he was close to either didn't need it as badly (like Minfilia, who had F'lhaminn as her primary source of emotional support, and could already see just how much Thancred cared for her even if he couldn't actually show it properly) or worked close with him and knew that this was necessary (like the Circle/Scions).

Ryne values everyones thoughts and feelings over her own because she was raised by Ran'jit, who viewed her more as an object of his repeated losses and grief of those he couldn't protect before her. She's more a memento than a person, and so she's been told her entire life that her feelings and opinions don't matter in the slightest. She never got the chance to learn they mattered either, because she spend the last 3 years almost entirely alone with Thancred who never indicated either way.

And when these two are put against each other they end up feeding the root problems. Thancred's emotional distance makes Ryne assume he doesn't care about her and by extention, her thoughts and feelings. Ryne's over-valuing of his words make him even more reluctant to speak up because he doesn't want to sway her any given way, which is exactly what would happen because she values his feelings so much.

It's an endless and terrible cycle that neither are really able to break out of on their own. It's not really either one's fault but it still falls to them to deal with it. They can't break it themselves but they also can't have it broken by anyone else either. They have to both be confronted about it and realize that this is never going to work. Thancred needs to learn he can't just keep saying "not today" and Ryne needs to learn that regardless of her view of herself she can't let other's feelings decide her life for her. Vulnerability isn't a weakness nor is self-destructive sympathy a strength.

[faaun]

pls i need to provide updates

[emeraldblonde]

I tried to mod something and the good news is, it didn't crash the game. 🥳 The bad news is, not what I was looking for lmao.

Like, don't get me wrong. I've seen way worse (the stuff of nightmares) on a modding channel I've been teaching myself this stuff lately, so. It's not like I completely fucked this thing up or anything like that.

It's just... I still gotta ask though.

What went wrong here?

[josecariohca]

.

[gingermintpepper]

I'm actually so frustrated that I'm so tired and incoherent tonight because not only have I seen a great many fantastic Apollo posts I'd love to contribute to, I also got a mythical, super rare Achilles/Troilus post that directly names Achilles' crimes against Apollo and I can't!! Respond!! Or Add!!! To it!!! in any meaningful way!!!!

AGONIES!! TORMENT!!! A THOUSAND PAINS!!!

[luvuomi]

“let me guess…your roman empire is pre released kazuha-” WRONG‼️ its marius von hagen

[drinkingdeadpeopletea]

i think what's really getting me about kozma claiming to have blown up the moon and also claiming to "be" the breach and basically equating "breach collaborators" and "my allies" in the same speech is that. the breach operative we've known since season one, the person who "is" the breach as far the story's concerned, is saskia. and midst is saskia's HOME! she built the black candle with her own two hands (metaphorically, at the very least), she LOVES it there and she loves those people :( and if we take kozma's story at face value, she just threw the "centerpoint" (according to imelda) of her own operation entirely under the bus and endangered the lives not only of innocent people but also of a bunch of her own operatives without their knowledge just to destabilize the trust and frankly that makes me kind of hope she IS telling the truth simply because that's the kind of betrayal i find absolutely delicious,

[bardicious]

Honestly if anyone deserved to survive into the new timeline it was Lila and Five. 😭😭😭

[scalproie]

Domesticated Post-Tekken 2 Era Kazuya is my favorite to think about because this would be so good for him and everyone else but he would have an absolutely miserable time during it

[honorthysalad]

Hikaru’s mom compilation. 3 times she shows up. Outside of this- I think she’s mentioned three times: cut up some watermelon, one of the reasons Hikaru doesn’t want to die, and then to say she, along with the hikaru’s grandma, doesn’t know anything about Hichi-san.

[llycaons]

still thinking about this actually and yeah it's insane that jc canonically and onscreen physically and emotionally harms unarmed people and new disciples who are powerless/weaker than him/under his command when he's angry or frustrated to vent his spleen or whatever, like he abuses his power over others NOT infrequently, and people still look at him and go 🥺🥺🥺 'oh how noble...his big suffering heart...he loves so deeply...what a great leader....how badass of him to be a dick to people who he can hurt with impunity' like guys he Just intentionally retraumatized a guy who was attacked by feral dogs as a toddler and would never have fought back, are we seeing the same character. he literally tortures people when he's angry at them

[elgaravel]

okay jasper brainrot again