Hey! Do you think there’s any chance they might not make Romione canon in the upcoming HBO series because of the popularity of other pairings and JKR’s somewhat recent statements concerning the ship?
fair warning this is gonna be a long post!
you know anon, i’m not gonna deny that the possibility of romione not being canon in the hbo series doesn’t keep me up at night HOWEVER COMMA-
I believe romione will be safe because i’m placing a lot, if not all, of my faith in the upcoming hbo series being repeatedly described as a "faithful" adaptation of the 7 novels. which we can deduce to mean romione friends to lovers slow burn endgame and all that good stuff (maybe i'll talk about the potential of book romione and the serial tv medium some other time)
and sure, it can all be marketing/pandering/etc. but i find it so hard to feel cynical about hbo because i love LOVE their shows and i'm of the belief that they know how to tell a good ass story (and romione happens to be a good ass romance subplot). i also have such positive feelings about the showrunner Frances Gardiner (consulting prod on succession and also has killing eve under her belt) who JKR chose herself and one of the exec producers of the show who's set to direct of a bunch of episodes Mark Mylod (succession, the menu, tlou, got)!!!! and if you know me at all you'll know that succession is one of the main pillars of my personality and i fucking love that show so bad I would follow anyone who was part of the making of that show off a cliff if they asked me to. and Mark Mylod is a fantastic fucking episodic director who's directed and produced some of the best episodes of television ever, so i know he knows how to tell a good story. and though i'm a lot less familiar with Gardiners' work, she is a female creative who has some of my personal favourite episodes listed in her imdb (chiantishire, living+, tailgate party) who's pitch of the show made joanne give her the job so.... and y'all know im a canon bootlicker and love the books so all i'll say is.. real recognizes real.
so knowing the creative team behind hp series had a direct hand in making my favourite show of all time gets me so excited and giddy!!!!
but here's where my personal theories and speculations start: I really think with this hbo series, JKR is on a mission is create something wholly and newly hers. she was barely involved creatively in the production of the movies until DH pt. 1 and 2 and the movies have almost become an entity of its own that's drifted so far away from her. of course i realize me even just talking sympathetically about JKR is deeply touchy and might piss some people off but as a fellow creative, i feel for her man!! when i think of the best books in the series in my opinion that are filled with the best bits of world building and political commentary, what i find is that GoF was handed to a director who didn't even read the book, OotP was the shortest movie in the franchise despite being the longest book and how it entirely missed the Quibbler plot and all of harry's rage, or HBP that was filled to the brim with *chefs kiss* tom/voldemort lore which was done a complete disservice in the grey and brown sludgy mess that is the HBP movie.
and knowing that JKR now has a strained relationship or had a falling out with most of the top dogs involved in the films like Kloves and Yates (hallelujah what who said that) and Emma Watson and Daniel Radcliffe means this show has the chance to be a behemoth that’s entirely joanne’s, like the books are. it’ll be free of Kloves' Hermione and harmony (harry x hermione) favouritism or Watson's take on Hermione's character that makes my ass itch or Yate’s complete inability to direct his actors and make non-action scenes have heart, soul and heft. but i also can’t not address the elephant in the room: this section of the discussion is filled with every shade of grey possible because what led to the falling outs was that they all vehemently disagreed with JKR's anti-trans views and good on them they absolutely should! but like.............. i hated kloves' writing and his butchering of ron's character, i think yates is a static and boring director and im not a fan of emma's acting so like... a win is a win? NO IT'S NOT. but IT IS. BUT IT'S SO NOT. but do you see what i'm getting at???
the point i'm trying to make is that joanne is not the same person she was when she was first writing the books or when the movies were being made. I think she's a lot more ruthless and cutthroat now and while i disagree with her methods and condemn her transphobia.... i think this newfound hardness to her will lend itself to making the hbo series the best HP adaptation it can be, I'M SORRY it's absolutely fucked and i acknowledge and abhor her gender critical politics as a queer woman but im also an artist who just wants good, high quality stories to be told 😔😩
and as for the other popular ships and JKR's somewhat recent comments about romione:
I think its safe to say that joanne dgaf about this fandom and what's popular in it anymore LMFAOOOO 😭😭😭 i genuinely respect that she's always stood ten toes down about how draco's not some antihero, bad boy love interest and at best is a cautionary tale on prejudiced bullies, so I don't think that's changing anytime soon. especially considering that the dramione cottage industry that its fans have made is more or less a reactionary "fuck you" to joanne and canon which they do by writing fanfic about crimes against women and making merch and binding physical copies of said fanfics (really showing it to the big baddie transphobic DV survivor by *checks notes* auctioning hermione off as a sex slave) so I doubt she'd ever consider other ship's popularity seriously. as for the possibility of harry and hermione becoming endgame um..... if the show plans to faithfully adapt the books then we'd get harry and hermione’s quintessential sibling dynamic plus we’re already free from Kloves (also i have faith in francesca and mark knowing that harmony are just plain BORING) so i think the chances, again, are low. and if joanne really wants to stick it to her old colleagues, she can go down the route of pushing romione that much harder (and she really wouldn’t have to do much, it’s all in the books already) 😭
as for the comments on romione that she’s made in recent years, i think a lot of it’s been blown out of proportion or have gone through a terrible game of telephone. what she said (paraphrasing here) about ‘wishing she’d handled ron/hermione differently because a lot of what went into them was a wish fulfillment fantasy’ has turned into ‘jk rowling regrets making romione endgame???!!’ which is just *takes a drag from a cigarette* just another tuesday around here. i also would link to two meta posts by @saintsenara on the topic of endgame romione which i wholeheartedly agree with it
all i have to say is that going into making this show i hope joanne remembers that she based ron’s character off of a person in her life she liked when she was younger and who is still a good friend of hers now 😭😔
you guys probably know i’m in animation school which is basically film school in a different font. so i’m quite literally training to one day work in the story department on projects and work alongside writers, directors and producers, so this stuff means a lot to me! she and the creative team behind this upcoming show have the chance to make something really special and i’m finding it hard not to root for them!!!!!
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*Rage post may delete later*
just went and saw a meta about Jiang Cheng being underappreciated for getting Wei Wuxian out of the Xuanwu cave and stuff and I was scrolling through the comments being like "awwwww" "yeah that's right" 'damn straight" "yeeeheeahhhh" and then I just saw this FUCKING COMMENT being like "eeerrrmmmm that still doesn't excuse what he did to wwx he's such a nasty ass human being omg" and idk why but it just flipped some sort of mental rage switch in me and HRRRRRNGH like the little smile was WIPED OFF MY FACE and my intestines crackled from the sudden rise in blood pressure and like jc antis can you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE chill and leave us the fuck alone
I don't want to die young from health complications
my entire dash was full of jc metas and ofc discourse and this fucking comment just pushed me over the edge
jc antis PLEASE PLEASE leave the stans ALONE and go drink some orange juice or something please do something productive you've got better things to do that shitting on jc and the people that choose to like him
even if he's straight up evil (he isn't) that's not your fucking problem isn't it people can stan literal villains in other fandoms and nobody cares so why do you guys have to be such control freaks
I don't see the xue yang antis and Jin Guanyao antis behave in this rabid ass sort of way just CALM DOWN and stop trying to make us argue with you on whether Jiang Cheng beats Jin Ling on a daily basis or if he puts emo teenagers in wood chippers or something
what even is the purpose of all the shit you get up to? Is it going to make Jiang Cheng hear you through the fourth wall? Is he going to drop to his knees and apologize to Wei Wuxian? NO! Is it going to make us stans see the "errors of our ways" and go hate on Jiang Cheng with you? NO! Is it going to summon Wei Wuxian so he can host a fan meetup and give you a hug and his autograph and his eternal friendship? NO!!! Is it going to drive Wei Wuxian to put Jiang Cheng in a wood chipper? NO!!! Is it going to make Jiang Cheng become real so y'all can put him in a wood chipper? N O !!!!!!!!!!!
Listen. Just like how we can never convince you to stan Jiang Cheng, you can never convince us to do whatever is your endgame. So I suggest you go to your own little corner of the fandom, stop bothering us, let us be "delulu" in peace, and get a fucking life.
phew!
Now I feel much better! Thanks for coming to my Ted talk and don't forget to tune in next time! bye bye!
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BRB thinking thoughts about Taigen's character, the TaiMizu ship, and a big chunk of fandom's perceptions regarding both those things.
(Inspired by @farintonorth's post related to this topic that just got my brain going brrrrr)
OK so let me just... start off by saying that I think that reducing stories to their tropes is seriously detrimental to the way some people are interacting with fiction, and while that honestly warrants its own post about the subject, I wanna talk specifically about how this affects the way some people in the fandom talk about Taigen and TaiMizu.
Because yeah, tropes are useful shorthand to refer to certain dynamics or archetypes etc, and they are indeed the building blocks to any story. But in a well-written story, characters and their relationships, actions, and motivations, are much more complex than just tropes. Because in a story that has characters who are more than just cardboard cutouts, their behaviours, backgrounds, motivations and all of that, are inseparable from the context of the overall story they exist in.
So like, sure, you can say Mizu and Taigen have an enemies-to-lovers or rivals-to-lovers dynamic. I also use those terms because it's easier. But I also think this is where things start to get a bit twisted, especially from an intertextual sense. Because "enemies-to-lovers" is also commonly used to refer to other ships in other media, whereby it tends to be rooted in an imbalanced power dynamic, such as oppressor-oppressed and bully-victim.
And while that's a whole can of worms that I won't be getting into because it can quickly derail into a whole separate sort of fandom discourse, I'd just like to make it clear that Mizu and Taigen, in particular, do not have an imbalanced power dynamic. They are not bully-victim or oppressor-oppressed. The only understandable reason why someone might actually think their relationship is imbalanced is if
A) they only watched the first episode, or
B) they cannot grasp the slightest bit of nuance in a character, or
C) they're being obtuse on purpose simply because the Mizu/Taigen relationship, or Taigen's character in general, just doesn't suit their tastes.
While yes, Taigen, along with his whole gang, had bullied Mizu when they were children, that dynamic does not exist between them whatsoever in adulthood. Whatever imbalanced bully-victim power dynamic that had once existed between them was decisively ripped apart the moment Mizu beat him in that duel in the dojo, and then completely obliterated by the end of the season.
Mizu is not a defenseless victim at Taigen's mercy. Mizu can beat Taigen's ass any time she wants (and she DOES, repeatedly in fact), and could even kill him if she felt like it. She taunts him openly and without fear ("I like your hair"; "I can beat you with any weapon you choose") and all he does is bark back, because that's pretty much all Taigen ever does. Time and time again, he yaps about how much he wants to kill her, but time and time again, his actions prove that all of it is just an empty threat. Because though his words say "I hate you", his actions demonstrate the complete opposite. He's shown how protective he is of Mizu, how unhesitatingly he sacrifices himself up for her, how loyal he is in enduring days-long torture to not give up information about her, how even when near-death and in pain, he's still willing to keep standing back up so he can fight by her side and help her win against her enemies.
And Mizu is not an idiot! She sees that too. She does not see him as a threat, an enemy, or even a bully. Especially not by the end of Episode 3, and definitely not by the end of the season. When she finds him in the dungeon in Episode 6, she smiles from relief, and doesn't think twice to take him with her. Mizu finds him, at best, an annoyance, or at worst, an infuriating hindrance on her quest for vengeance. Which is why, when Taigen is about to say, "It's a shame our duel's set for tomorrow; I have to kill you before you get your revenge," Mizu whacks him on the head without a second thought before he can even finish his sentence, and leaves him lying unconscious, face-down, in the snow.
And this further emphasises how he does not hold any power over her. There is no abusive power dynamic between them. She is more powerful than him, he knows this, and all he's ever done after they've met up again in adulthood is get his ass whooped by her, get mad about it and pester her and follow her around, get his ass whooped by her some more, and put his life on the line to protect her.
"OOoooOOoooH b-but he called her a demon at the end of Episode 7 and threatened to kill her again!!!" Oh my god. He called her that because he's calling her out on her selfishness to stay silent about her knowledge of Fowler's plans to attack Edo. Because to him, loyalty and honour as a samurai is more important than anything. So in his own brash-and-immature Taigen way, he felt betrayed that Mizu did not hold the same principles. That's why he got angry. He wasn't even that mad about letting Akemi get dragged off by the Tokunobu guards. It was about saving the Shogun and the Shogunate as a whole. That's why the first thing he does in Edo is not find Akemi, but try to warn the Shogun about Fowler's attack.
Look, I'm not defending his stupid ass, of course. Because calling her a demon especially after their cute little wrestling time was obviously rude and inappropriate, especially since words like "demon", "monster" and "Onryo" have had such a deep effect on Mizu throughout her life, and continue to contribute to her self-hatred. But like? That's the fun of realistic and flawed characters, and realistic and flawed relationships. They're not perfect, and it's why we as an audience root for them, wanting to see them work through their shit and find a way to prevail despite it all.
Also, him saying that was in the heat of the moment. He was angry, he felt like his initial belief of who Mizu was—a strong and loyal samurai, just like him—was shattered, and so he lashed out. Was it rude? Definitely. Was it immature of him? Yes, incredibly. But it's also very much in line with his character, because even though he's grown a lot over the course of the season, the show isn't over yet, so obviously his character arc is just beginning, as that is also the case for the other three main characters: Mizu is beginning to accept herself, Akemi is beginning to grow into her position of power, Ringo beginning to train under Master Eiji, while Taigen is beginning to simply be a better person.
On that note, when speaking of Taigen's immaturity, I think that's also one of the main things that people tend to gloss over when it comes to his character. Because when you boil everything down to its bare essentials, Taigen is, essentially, a boy. I've talked about this before, but to reiterate, Taigen very much behaves like an unhealed child. Even as an adult, he is insecure, prone to throwing tantrums, and is desperate to latch onto some material goal in hopes that it will make him feel better—initially he was chasing status/glory/greatness, and then when Mizu tells him that "Nothing comes from being a samurai but death," he immediately decides he wants to run away with Akemi in hopes that he will be happy.
And it's a big step, acknowledging that he doesn't truly want greatness, but had always just assumed it was his only path to a good life. But it's clear he still hasn't really figured it out. Because if he did run off with Akemi to get married and live in the countryside, he still wouldn't be happy. Because he still doesn't know who he really is, or what it is he really wants. Marriage at this moment is the last thing he needs, and as he is now, he would be a pretty awful husband. A simple life would be good for him, but would he be good at a simple life, when he still has so much he needs to work through?
So anyway, what I'm getting at here, is that he's trying and he is learning and growing. So yeah, he is flawed, but honestly? So is Mizu. And the funny thing is that they're flawed in very similar ways.
Because Mizu is also an unhealed child. That's why she's so angry all the time. That's why she pushes people away. That's why she, just like Taigen, is so happy when given the chance to playfully wrestle in the forge, laughing and rolling around like children without shame or pretense.
Again, this shows there is no imbalance between them. They had grown up together as peers from the same town. And while Taigen had had the upper hand back then, because he'd had a gang of other kids with him, that is definitely not the case anymore. Today, they are equally flawed, equally strong, equally skilled swordsmen, and equally bull-headed.
However, yes, Mizu is definitely leagues more mature than Taigen. But she still holds a lot of childhood wounds that mirror Taigen's own. And we see this especially in relation to her mother. Similar to Taigen who had an abusive and alcoholic father, Mizu's Mama was an opium addict and had hit her, berated her, had shaved her head without her consent as a child, and as an adult, had constantly emotionally manipulated and guilt-tripped her. Mizu's love for her Mama was what had driven her to a path of vengeance in the very beginning. And when she'd found out Mama was still alive, she had wanted nothing more than her Mama's love, and it was this alone that pushed her to agree to the marriage with Mikio in the first place. And now, knowing from Fowler that her birth mother is someone else entirely, is what makes her agree to keep him alive and haul his ass to London to seek answers.
Thus, integral to Mizu's self-hatred is also Mizu's intense longing for love and family. Just like Taigen, whose pompousness comes from his insecurity about being the son of a poor fisherman, Mizu's goals are also shaped by who her parents are. Remember, her vengeance is not against just anyone who's corrupt or evil, but specifically against the men who she believes had assaulted her mother, the men she believes had made her a monster, the men she believes had abandoned her to die and continue to try to kill her. Her vengeance is against a father, on behalf of a mother. In The Tale of the Ronin and the Bride, Mizu is not merely the Ronin, the Bride, or the Onryo, but also the Child.
This is also why Ringo is so good, not only for Mizu, but for Taigen as well. Ringo is wise and caring and considerate, but above all, he is in tune with his inner child in ways that Mizu and Taigen are not. He is always earnest and positive, he sees the world with childlike wonder, but is not naive or blind to its ugliness. His whole life has been a battle. Ringo brings out the best in Mizu, consistently acting as her moral compass and conscience, and Mizu's choice to save Akemi in the final episode is only because she promised Ringo that she would. Because it's the right thing to do. Ringo inspires her to be a better person, and to think outside of her narrow-minded goal of revenge. At the same time, Ringo also brings out the best in Taigen. While at first Taigen had looked down on both Mizu and Ringo ("Half-limb to a half-wit"), by the end of the season, he's proud to have Ringo as a friend and ally, he listens to Ringo's advice ("What would Master do?"), and asserts to the fucking Shogun that Ringo is a worthy warrior to have by his side.
Okay, I've gone on a bit of a tangent here, but my main point is that Mizu and Taigen are incredibly similar. They are equals. They are both flawed, unhealed children who are chasing some impossible outlandish goal in hopes that it will fill the void in their hearts. They also both have a long way to go in terms of character development if they were to ever build a healthy romantic relationship (either with each other, or even with anyone else). So while I believe things will be rocky (because duh, it's a story, we all live for the drama, etc), I think with Ringo's help, they'll get there eventually.
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