#arthurian sources

[wrennwyrmnest]

i’m very very curious about your arthurian retelling! who are the central characters? what do you find most interesting/exciting/compelling about them? what are your arthurian sources & inspirations (be that medieval texts or modern retellings)?

Hey there anon! Thank you so much for asking this question - this is going to be a bit of a long answer but I get the feeling that won't be an issue :D (Maybe grab a snack?)

Firstly I'll explain why I'm using 'reimagining' rather than 'retelling', namely it's because of moving Arthur and co into a high fantasy setting rather than just Britain etc. which, while of course there will be analogues, there's going to be a bigger part that other fantasy species play. Christian themes and I guess, reasonings, aren't found but linger where appropriate (Grail Quest is there but but Galahad doesn't like yk go to Heaven afterwards) as some media I've been inspired from as well as I think a big thing of Arthur's legend of moving from one world into another whether that be Pagan -> Christian or Anglo-Saxon -> Britain(* all the big asterisks there because yk fiction and history not aligning).

Characters

Oh boy. Firstly I'd like you to check out the chart that was added to the wikipedia for King Arthur's Family: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur%27s_family *how I wish this was there last year :sob:* and basically this kinda gives a good scope of characters I have 'webbed' out. I've gone to both Welsh and French texts for inspiration since Welsh includes Arthur's trips to the underworld ( ;) ) and French is when we get Lancelot and the Grail Quest. Firstly know I have taken some liberties both in Arthur's family tree as well as some creative ways that account for say multiple parents (Lancelot is recorded as being the son of a King but also as a son of The Lady of the Lake ~plot reasons~ they're separate uh, instances lets say ;) of his parents in my story). But in terms of characters whose voice I have a pretty good grasp of, their emotional arc(s) and a clear image in my mind of what they look like are (and grouped for no particular reason...):

Arthur, Lancelot, Gwen, and two others in their polycule.*

Igraine, Uther, and Gorloris.**

Merlin <- think druidic Loki vibes, he's a pain in my ass and I love him.

Hector his daughter Ser Kay.

Nimue and The Lady of the Lake.

Morgause and her son Mordred.

Madoc and his brother Mark.

Morgaen and how they were separated from Arthur at birth.

... The notion database I've created by pulling all the characters from sources comes to 258 but the above lists some uh key figures that are fleshed out as protagonists, antagonists, and anti-heroes.

(*) I'll get to Arthur/Lance/Gwen's triad a bit more below, but what I will say is that polycule is an important term here as everyone isn't with everyone, if that makes sense? But imagine found family five-man-band vibes.

(**) SO fun fact, when I watched the movie Merlin as a kid I misheard Gorlois as Goloris so I just kinda stuck with it. Unsure if that'll upset people too much though aha.

Why Tho? Exciting/Interesting/Compelling reasons why these characters have my soul.

I'm a big fan of Fairy Tales, Folklore, and Mythology. Seeing comparisons and also seeing both the Disney-fied versions but also the original tales. Arthurian legends has scratched an itch of dragons, knights, and magic that I've loved and is also shared by other stories too - which in part is why I'm spending so much time worldbuilding up front so I have a whole world sandbox to play in and tell some other tales too with it.

Why did I go with Arthur instead of say the Little Mermaid & Harpy sapphic reimagining I've got stashed? Honestly? Because he answered the call to adventure - the quest I have planned - but also because the Arthur I have in my mind, a big theme for him is Courage and doing the thing even though you're scared to which I resonate with a lot. Lancelot came stumbling in as his best friend from their squire days after disappearing for a few years for a second chance romance plot. Gwen butting heads with her twin sister had a certain, fire let's say ( ;) ), that need to pull these two dorks out of their heads while also exploring themes of empowerment. Mordred's arc which I hope to pull off as well as Zuko's was. Merlin, whom I love, was the one who revealed the world to me and really sparked the magic of it all. But then two scenes came to my mind, in full colour and with a big emotional impact.

Arthur and Morgaen's next meeting after finding out they're siblings.

Lancelot's lost memories returning and Arthur knighting the man who had turned to stone to save him.

I'll need to go through and make a full list of tags eventually but uh, lots of Angst/Hurt/Comfort mixed in with wholesome moments. I'm leaning towards potentially writing in a serial format and also doing maybe side stories from different character perspectives.

Sources & Inspirations

In terms of Arthurian specific things:

Welsh sources: Black Book of Carmarthen; Red and White books of Hergest; Culhwch and Olwen; Mabinogion; and the Welsh Triads.

Geoffrey of Monmouth, notably for Arthur's connection to the Roman Empire and characters from that region.

French sources: Le Mort de Arthur, Tristan and Iseult, Perceval and other stories such as Lancelot and the Knight of the Cart (I cackled a bit when I read that one ngl).

I tend to listen to the Myths and Legends podcast by Jason (something) who will be coming out with an Arthurian book sometime which I am keeeen for.

In terms of post-medieval things, there's a lot of nodding to fairy tales such as Tom Thumb and any story where Jack is mentioned.

Merlin the 1998 miniseries with Sam Neill. (This is the one that I misheard Golois as Goloris aha.)

The Mists of Avalon 2001 miniseries. (I haven't read the books and don't plan to support the author or that estate in any way due to the abuse she aided and abetted in).

Sword and the Stone is a classic Disney film but the main thing here I took inspiration from was to really highlight The Great Game in some way... Which is also a nod to Talesin in the Mabinogian. Also enjoyed Quest for Camelot as well.

There's a sapphic scifi retelling that I love called Once and Future.

And I also watched King Arthur's Disasters as a kid which, ngl I prefer the Welsh versions where he's a badass but this was amusing at the time.

In terms of non-Arthurian sources and inspirations, oh boy this gets quite long but basically from the above there are offshoots that I've done in terms of exploring:

Other Welsh tales.

Folklore of Europe as well as Ireland, Scotland, and Britain.

A lot of dabbling in comparative mythology and folklore as well as such as the Aarne-Thompson-Uther Index for folklore to create some original but familiar folk heroes and lore for my world.

Consuming pretty much everything on Overly Sarcastic Productions.

I've mentioned that Avatar the Last Airbender and Fullmetal Alchemist are two comparative points of media: the first being for the elemental magic system as well as just some solid worldbuilding and character arcs - one of my blocks with writing is that I have like this big epic quest, various wholesome slice of life moments, deep emotional beats, but then also some spicey scenes that come to mind; the latter is mainly for a nod to alchemy, and magitech as well as some character beats.

I've also mentioned ASOIAF and really want to highlight that there won't be any inc##t at all in my books. There will be dark themes such as abuse of power, manipulation, and there will be people who get hurt or take advantage of, but I just really don't like that plot beat at all. Hence why Mordred is no Arthur's son.

*flops* Okay thank you for sticking with me through all of that. Let me know if you have more questions or if you'd like me to elaborate on anything! Thank you again for your question, it means a lot that people are finding it interesting (helps stop the imposter syndrome voices yk?)

[queer-ragnelle]

Do you have a guide/a recommended reading list for getting into Arthurian legends? I’ve been really getting into it in the past few months but I feel like I’m missing out on a lot of the foundations of it. (If you don’t and this is too big of an ask totally feel free to ignore this lol)

hello, anon.

i don't currently although i have plans to add another page to my blog listing medieval texts as well as links to download pdfs of them. i have english translations of texts originating in belarussian, dutch, french, german, hebrew, italian, latin, middle english, and last but not least, welsh.

in the mean time, i've collected for you some key texts that are readily available to read for free online!

le morte d'arthur by sir thomas malory [part 1] [part 2]

the history of the britons by nennius [here]

the mabinogion translated by lady charlotte guest [here]

four romances by chrétien de troyes [here]

parzival by wolfram von eschenbach [part 1] [part 2]

the wedding of sir gawain and dame ragnelle translated by thomas hahn [here]

sir gawain and the green knight translated by j. r. r. tolkien [here]

better translations/formatting forthcoming! enjoy. :^)

[oneshoulderangel]

I don’t know why…but this scene from le morte de Arthur just reminds me so much of that one moment in shrek 2, so enjoy the really rough sketch.

Like this has to be one of the weirdest days of Arthur’s life so far.

Pellinore is somehow the character I find the funniest through no fault of his own.

[adhd-merlin]

reblogging a meme and tagging it with the name of some random knight, then laughing a bit to myself. I have never read an arthurian text in my life

[themerlinrewrite]

for anyone interested in arthurian folklore and/or mythology around the world: an efficient source

recently i found this website and it has been incredibly helpful with research for my projects (and just research for interest's sake). for arthurian folklore, especially, there are not only many different versions of each story, but many different pronunciations for each name, many different names for each character - you get the idea. in my opinion, this website displays a good variety of each legend while still getting the point across rather simply.

here it is: Nightbringer

i'm going to be reblogging some other good websites/pages for folklore; view my blog page for the other ones :) also, if my fellow writers/nerds/autistic people out there want to add to this thread, i will appreciate and explore every single one of your suggestions

[please-dont-pet-the-okapi]

Was about to complain about there being some Edgy Snarkiness about Christianity in this 1970s Arthurian novel I'm reading. But frankly I'm realizing that's unfortunately par for the course for most Arthurian adaptations made between the years 1970 and 2010, so doing so would be akin to going to Cane's and complaining that they're selling chicken fingers. I knew exactly what I was going to be rubbing my temples about the moment I looked at the publishing date.

It's not going to stop me from grumbling or blinking at the wall in annoyance about it, but also *Steve Rogers voice* Tony you CHOSE to do this.

[15pantheons]

Lancelot: I am an expert at identifying birds.  Arthur: Okay, what about those ones flying over there?  Lancelot: Yeah, they're all birds. 

[sickfreaksirkay]

yeah <3 (from Between Knights: Triangular Desire and Sir Palomides in Sir Thomas Malory's "The Book of Sir Tristram de Lyones")

[peregrin-tookish]

Mordred: This is NFL's intro. I think they bought the rights to it actually Mordred: Why do I know that? Galahad: because you grew up in a household of men Mordred: Oh yeah

[gawrkin]

OMG, I just read through Stanzaic Morte Arthure just now. And comparing it to the original french narratives, now understand what went wrong with Le Morte D'Arthur.

Stanzaic made Lancelot look unnecessarily vicious:

In the French version, Lancelot only kills two knights during the exposure ambush, with Agravain living all the way to Guinevere's sentence to the stake, where he dies fighting Lancelot. In SMZ, Lancelot slaughters absolutely everyone except Mordred who gets away.

In the French version, Lancelot did not rescue Guinevere alone - Bors, Ector de Maris and the rest of Lancelot's companions came in force, with Bors being the one who kills Guerrehet. In SMZ, Lancelot is portrayed as charging and killing everyone by himself

Last, and More importantly, in the French versions, Gaheriet, Guerrehet (and Agravain) were all armed:

The king commanded Agravain to take forty knights and go to guard the field in which the fire was lit, so that, if Lancelot came there, he would be able to do nothing. Agravain asked, “Sir, do you want me to go?” “Yes,” replied the king. “Then command my brother Gaheriet to come with us.” The king ordered him to do so, but he said [123] he would not. However, the king threatened him until he agreed to go. Then he and all the others went to arm themselves. When they had done so and had left the city, they saw that there were a good eighty of them.

Later, the narrative mentions how Lancelot and Bors easily pierced Agravain and Guerrehet's armors. In response Gaheriet draws his sword and kills a knight while Ector knocked off Gaheriet's helmet while he was in the fighting.

In SMZ, for some reason I can't fathom yet (its the language), Gaheris and Gareth went into Guinevere's burning completely unarmed, which of course, has the effect of making Lancelot look completely deranged to the reader when he kills them (and everyone else) indiscriminantly and single-handedly.

There's, like, a huuuge world of difference in tone and context between Stanzaic and the Vulgate.

So now, I've completely sworn off of the english treatments of Sir Lancelot. Consider me Pro-French!Lancelot from now on.

[spilledmilkfkdies]

I just realized something very random.

Morgana is the Lady of the Lake right? I am pretty sure of that.

And if we take as canon the existence of fairies and wizards in roughly the Middle Ages we can accept as truth the Arthurian tales.

With means technically Roxy had a brother? Like Mordred was her half-brother?

IDK that would have been a wild conversation to have.

Yeah I've seen people talk about S4 (specifically, but not only S4 I don't think??) being way deeper into Arthurian stuff than canon ever bothered to talk about, from knights of the round table takes to um. The entirety of Morgana. As a character. Taking this route would complicate things a bit, but also? S4 canon history? What canon history?? Am I right- Anyway, I think Mordred died so it's not like he would've had any influence on "recent" events probably, but inserting him and many other Arthurian things into Winx Earth history could be so fun fr??

I had to read up a bit for this, do not come for me pls- But also ty for bringing this up in the first place because it gave me some lil ideas for stuff. As if I needed any more of those.

[oneshoulderangel]

Every time I see bad dad Arthur and sad mordred content, I shall counter it by posting Doting Dad Arthur and Sunshine Baby Mordred content. The universe must remain balanced. So enjoy this incredibly rough sketch.

Being king doesn’t leave a lot of time for baby bonding time, so Arthur multitasks. Bath time and meeting time are both messy affairs anyway, so why not combine them.

[alaynasansa]

Queen Sansa Stark knighting Podrick Payne

[fluffypotatey]

Being a medieval geek and watching medieval shows is both a blessing and a curse, because sometimes the anachronism is funny, and other times it makes you want to throttle the writers and ask them what the fuck they're doing.

Funny Things: technically none of the saddles on BBC Merlin should have stirrups, those didn't reach England until 10th century during the Viking invasions. The shiny decoration on Morgana's green dress wouldn't be beading but most likely preserved beetle shells. The bright red colour of the Pendragon banners and capes would come from a dye made with bugs.

I-Have-QUESTIONS Things: If Gaius and Hunith are supposed to be siblings and Gaius wasn't previously a freeman (ergo bound in service to Camelot, meaning his entire family was also) how did Hunith end up in another kingdom, that's literally illegal, she's also got an education that she clearly passed on to Merlin, so their family must have had wealth/importance at one point, so again WHY IS SHE IN PODUNK, ESSETIR, and [gunshots]

here me out: Young Hunith was an anarchist and deliberately left Camelot bc she wanted to start her own life somewhere else, thereby going against Gaius's wishes to stay low and keep the peace. unlike her relative Gaius, who stayed bc that was the law and whatnot, Hunith said "fuck that" and in this essay i will--

[pendragon-daily]

Pendragon-Daily: Chapter 1

Arthur Pendragon is in the shadow and ruff texture of my prison’s walls. I close my eyes against the noise. I don’t know if it’s night or day. 

My mother raised me to be chivalrous, a knight. When I was young, she told me stories of Arthur to help me sleep. I don’t imagine her here. I would never want her in a place like this even as a fantasy. (So, I will imagine you are listening.)

She told me how Arthur became a king before she ever told me how he became a man. I’ve been trying to put the stories in order from the beginning of Arthur’s life to his death. With my own death imminent it seems suddenly like important work, to contextualize the reality of a man’s life.

There are people that will tell you Arthur never lived. These are enlightened  people—in their own mind’s at least— that reject all their mother’s stories. They believe love is a lie and the world offers no transformation but violence and degradation. 

I won’t argue that the world knows violence, but it also knows hope and faith and bedtime stories.

This is the story of how Igraine, the Duchess of Tintagil evaded Uther Pendragon:

In the days that Uther Pendragon was king of England, he believed all that he desired was subject to his sovereign reign. A king cannot steal because everything in his land belongs to him.

A war raged between King Uther and the Duke of Tintagil. A powerful leader with a mighty army, The Duke would not give in to Uther’s forces.

Long years of fighting passed before Uther finally summoned the Duke for peace negotiations. When he did, Uther demanded that the Duke bring his wife, Igraine. 

The Duchess was said to be as beautiful as she was wise. Powerful women are often described as beautiful but rarely described as wise. Igraine had an easy perception of other’s motives—what an outside observer might call a natural grace. But it was a learned skill hard-won with mistake after agonizing mistake.

Uther didn’t pay attention to his arbitration council of intelligent lords. He did not pay attention to the Duke who came to the negotiations in good faith. Uther watched only Igraine. His thoughts anything but peaceful. He thought to take her—after all, everything in his kingdom was his.

She saw through Uther. She saw the emptiness of his promises and his crown. Igraine had made promises of her own to the Duke. Ones that she intended to keep.

Igraine shared her suspicions about Uther with her husband. Begging the Duke to flee the King’s castle, she told him of the hungry glances and pressing words. And he believed her.

In the hours following the Duke and Duchess’s quick escape, King Uther was seized by a mad fury. He would not be denied. He would take what was his. 

Uther pursued the Duke back to his own lands. Planning to siege Tintagil, he brought a massive army. Both sides fought hard, spilling blood as easily as clouds spill rain. As the battling carried from days to months, 

Uther fell into his familiar rage. In the cold, in the blood, the King became sick. He claimed his illness was from wanting Igraine. His love was destroying his body. 

In this sorry state, a noble knight came to his King. Sir Ulfius asked Uther what could be done to cure him.

Uther told him, “The only remedy is Igraine. If I can’t have her then all is lost.”

As is often the case of those in service, Sir Ulfius did not question the way he was asked to serve. This was his King. Ulfius would fight for him, die for him. A King was not subject to the criticism of an ordinary man.

Ulfius vowed to find the wizard, Merlin. If anyone could change the King’s fate it would be that man, infamous for his powerful sorcery. 

Ulfius followed whispers and rumors until he came to a village where he was certain Merlin resided.

“Have you seen the wizard Merlin?” He asked men with well-made knives and women draped in fresh bright fabrics.

All creation told him, “No, there’s no such man here.”

He searched on until he came across a beggar. His eyes were bright and sharp against his dirty complexion. Ulfius recognized a quick mind when he saw one. He asked, “Do you know where Merlin lives?”

“Why?” One word and a steady pause. The beggar had the demeanor of a great man.

“I come on behalf of my King. He needs the wizard’s help to claim a woman who’s captured his heart.”

The beggar stood up straighter. The gaps in his ragged cloths seemed to mend themselves into an unbroken weave. “What does Uther Pendragon offer?”

Ulfius held the other man’s gaze, but he could tell from the tone of his voice a transformation had taken place. This was Merlin himself.

“Anything you desire,” Ulfius said.

Merlin scoffed at the great offer. “In exchange for everything the King wants?” Merlin looked in the direction of the battle. Ulfius had an eerie feeling that he could see it with some sense other than simple vision.

“It’s fair,” said Ulfius.

“It’s enough.” Merlin gestured to the horizon. “You go ahead and I will follow close behind. We’ll get your King all that he desires.”

[atlantic-riona]

"it's not realistic—" do you think I am reading the genre named "fantasy" for how accurate it is to real life