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mjjune · 1 year

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A Hot Take(?) on Critique/Beta Comments: Self-Determination Policy

Consider this a spin-off from my Beta Reading Series which you can find here. (you don't have to read them to follow this post, but if you like this post, you'll like the whole series.)

I was discussing this with a friend who works for a crisis center/hotline, and we ended up agreeing that their "Self-Determination Policy" was a similar mindset that we take when beta reading each other's work.

Since it goes along with most of what I said in my previous posts, I thought I would expand on it here. Again, this has my usual disclaimer: this is all personal experience/opinion.

content warning: there is mention of suicide below

Below:

What is Self-Determination?

Self-Determination in Beta Reading

What About Giving Advice?

What To Do Instead of Advice

Tips & Examples of Comments

TL;DR at the bottom !

What is Self-Determination?

Essentially, at hotlines and other crisis centers where volunteers or workers are taking calls from those who may be a threat to themselves or others, they have a rule that the caller is responsible for any decisions they make, even if that decision is to take their own life. These policies both acknowledge that the caller retains their right to make their own decisions, as well as protects the workers from potential lawsuits or accusations.

To paraphrase from an actual policy: workers are to explore the caller's feelings and build a relationship of trust so the caller can explore all options.

So that's what I want to talk about here! This policy is exactly how I approach beta reading, and it's also how I want my readers to approach beta reading my own work.

Self-Determination in Beta Reading

First, I want to clarify there is a difference between critique partners, alpha readers, and beta readers. All readers/writers may have different expectations for each type of reader. For me, this self-determination policy is perfect for beta readers, but would not necessarily be appropriate for critiques or alphas.

For more on this, see my posts on alphas vs. betas here, and on critique vs. betas here.

There are two main self-determination points that apply to beta reading:

We won't make decisions for you. We support the decision you make.

You are the expert [on your story]. Our advice or opinions are not important*

And this is exactly the mindset beta readers should approach a story with!

Many readers come at being betas with the mindset "I want to make this story as good as possible" and this is a great mindset, however we need to dig deeper if we want to have a good beta/writer relationship and actually make the story better.

And going deeper means betas acknowledging that the writer is the expert, the writer is the one making the decisions regarding the story, and that the readers should support those decisions no matter what. Yes, even if they disregard your comments. Yes, even if they change the story in a way you think is making it worse. Yes, even if you have more writing experience.

* I do want to clarify that obviously beta comments are important. But the point here is that in the grand scheme of things, the writer's opinion is the only one that matters, and what is important is all the betas' comments together, not yours individually.

Wait, Then Should I Not Give Advice?

Honestly? No.

Just like how the crisis hotline does not offer advice or solutions, beta readers shouldn't either.

However, there is a slight deviation from the self-determination policy that I want to make here:

In the crisis hotline, a worker would not give advice or solutions to the problem but would share resources for the caller to make solutions on their own. (This might be referring to a specialist or going to a hospital.)

However, they would ask before providing these resources. The same goes for beta readers.

Providing resources would depend on the writer. Some writers might welcome craft-based resources, and some writers would see it as offensive. (I know if I was on draft 4 and satisfied with my book and a beta sent me a link teaching show vs. tell, I would be pretty upset lol)

Beta readers are here to read and give comments, but this does not open the door for advice unless the writer has explicitly asked for it. If you're beta reading and giving any type of advice, whether it be how to fix a problem in the story, how to pitch/query/publish it, what changes should be made, etc — then you are breaking this self-determination policy and not truly being a beta reader. (instead, you are more resembling a critique partner)

So What Do I Do Instead of Advice?

Rather than advice or solutions, betas should be sharing reactions, ideas and analysis.

I know, the line between these and "advice" can be blurred. This might even come down to the way it's worded, and the way the writer interprets it.

"It might be interesting if you explored [x] more."

"I can't picture this scene, you need more description."

"I'm struggling to connect to this character."

"This character interaction directly parallels the one that happened earlier and it shows how the characters have changed."

"The first act is too slow. You should work on pacing."

Which of these are reactions? Which are ideas? Which are advice?

Some are clearer than others, and ultimately some people would probably disagree.

Personally, the only ones I would consider to be advice are 2 and 5. These go against the self-determination policy because they make the step from being about how the reader is experiencing the story, to how they would change it if it were theirs.

Because that's what this comes down to. The story belongs to the writer, not the beta.

Now this is a "do as I say not as I do" situation. As a beta, every book I read I do what I call my "two-page ramble" where I do analysis for 2-3 pages (literally) about the themes in the story what I would do if I were the writer. However, I preface it, saying that. I tell the writer ahead of time and even separate it from the rest of my comments so the writer doesn't even have to read it, if they don't want to. Some writers ignore it, and some say that even though it's not what they would do, it gave them ideas they hadn't otherwise considered.

And another caveat: some writers might be totally fine with readers giving advice! This is why it's important to have good communication between betas/writers. Before reading you should not only discuss what kind of feedback the writer is looking for, but also where the story is in its development, and what the writer hopes to achieve with the story.

Tips & Examples

The key to avoiding advice and sticking to analysis, reactions, and sharing general ideas really comes down to wording and the focus of the sentence. From my experience both with counseling and beta reading, I focus on these two things:

1. "I" statements

This keeps the focus of your comments to you and how you are experiencing the story. This helps stay away from "you should" type sentences, which are always leaning towards advice/solutions.

Examples:

I am struggling to follow this plot point

I don't feel connected to this character

I can't picture this scene

I was/wasn't expecting this to happen

I'm hooked/haven't put the book down in [x] chapters

I am losing focus/bored in this paragraph/scene

2. Open-ended questions

This comes straight from my counseling class as well as my friend who works at the crisis hotline. Open-ended questions typically start with "what" with the goal of getting the writer to think—analyze their own writing and story. If you want to be extra considerate, avoid "why" questions because these are often interpreted as offensive/attacking.

These questions essentially replace advice. Instead of saying "you should do [x]" these questions guide the writer to figuring out what to do on their own.

Because ultimately that should be the goal. Instead of "I want to help this writer make their story the best it can be" we should go further: "I want to help this writer figure out what they want to do with the story, to make it exactly the story they want to tell."

Essentially, if you feel like something is missing, or something needs work, instead of directly saying "this thing is bad, here's what you should do" you ask an open-ended question instead. If you feel like a character's interaction doesn't feel genuine, or you don't understand why a character is making a decision, you might ask "What is your character thinking in this scene?"

Another thing I personally do is combine these "I" statements and open-ended questions. This does two things: 1) pinpoints the exact feeling the reader is having/problem they see and 2) asks a question that will guide the writer to hopefully finding an answer

Combo Examples:

I don't see the point of this scene, and I'm bored. What was your intention for this scene before you wrote it?

I'm confused about this character. What influenced your character to make this decision?

I'm struggling to connect with this character. What does he want/what is his goal?

To show how these comments are better (and following self-determination), let's look at the first example.

If you are bored or don't see the point in a scene, you might be tempted to give advice and tell the writer to cut the scene entirely (or tell them what to change). However, this self-determination-based comment instead tells the writer that you are bored/disconnected (which is invaluable!) but instead of giving advice, asks a question that will hopefully lead the writer to analyzing the scene and figuring out what they want to do about it—because the truth is, the writer may choose to leave the scene as is, and that's fine. Cutting the scene might not make the story better. There are so many reasons a scene might feel slow or boring, and it's not the beta's job to fix it. It's the writer's.

TL;DR —

Self-Determination means that you do not make decisions for anyone other than yourself. This means regardless of what the writer decides to do with your comments, you support it. You do not know what is best for the story, or how to fix the problems it has.

The writer is the expert in their story. As a beta reader, you should approach with the mindset that you are here to share your reactions, ideas and analysis of their story so they can make it better.

Self-Determination means: No advice. No solutions. Engage, listen, ask questions, analyze, share reactions, and support the writer in whatever they choose.

(Unless the writer explicitly asks for it. This is why you should communicate beforehand!)

Peace out ✌️

~MJ

#writblr #writeblr #writeblr community #writing #writers of tumblr #writer community #beta reading #beta readers #mj talks about beta reading #mj mumbles #mj posts #self determination

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finemeal · 8 months

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AO3 Etiquette

Alright, y’all, you already know what I’m about to say. But go ahead get some water, something to eat, take your meds, and whatever else you need to do as I go into this. Ready? Good.

I’ve seen far too many users on AO3 being rude and saying things that I’m not even sure they understand is rude.

If you’ve done these things, don’t sweat it too much. As long as you learn and do better, that’s what’s important. I don’t wanna make anyone feel bad, but I want to make y’all AWARE.

So let’s talk about some basic etiquette for interacting on AO3.

(Disclaimer: not every AO3 author is going to agree. Some are okay with some of these things, some aren’t. Let’s just play on the safe side yeah?)

Comment Etiquette

Listen, we’ve all left comments on fics we like. But here’s the thing, some of us don’t realize what comments are rude or not.

Comments that pass the vibe check:

Hearts

Something you liked about the story

Saying you enjoyed the story

Excited to see more from an author (not demanding an update, not asking for more, just genuine excitement for whatever the author has in store)

Anything that is genuinely nice

Theories on what you think will happen (not necessarily what you want or hope happens)

Comments that do not pass the vibe check:

DEMANDING an update

Treating fic authors like content pumps and not real people who do this in their free time

Critiquing the story

Saying how they should’ve written something different

Constructive criticism that the author did NOT ask for

Saying things that are purposefully antagonistic

Trolling

Anything that if someone said to you about something you worked hard on you would think was rude

Dogging on how a character was written

Comments that are WILDLY different from the tone of the story (i.e leaving a graphically violent comment on a story that does not feature graphic violence)

Any mention on how long it’s been since they’ve updated — you’re gonna make your wait longer

This one is more of a personal ick but any “want to see” comments, specifically on one-shots (I want you to enjoy what I’ve written, not talk about stories you hope I’ll write — unless author says that they specifically want those comments)

Honestly there’s so many comments that do not pass the vibe check I can’t even list them all. But I listed a BUNCH so, general rule of thumb is: If you’re not sure it’s rude, reach out to a friend and ask. Also, you can ask for people in the comment section to vibe check you if you’re unsure. And? If you know it’s rude and say it anyway, you’re an asshole.

ALSO: author’s will read your comments! They may not respond, but 9/10 author’s will read the comment so remember that you’re not posting into the void. And? People will call you out if you’re being rude. Don’t double down. Apologize, delete comment, move on.

Author’s talk, we will block you if you’re a raging asshole cuz we don’t need that kinda energy in our fics. And, sometimes we’ll turn off anon commenters cuz if you’re going to continue to be an asshole, and can’t even say it to our face, you din’t deserve to comment.

Bookmark Etiquette

This one is prolly gonna get a lot of people riled up and I simply don’t care. If you disagree, that’s fine, just know as an author and friends with other AO3 author’s we consider these sorts of things rude.

Bookmarks that pass the vibe check:

No comment

A nice comment with the bookmark

Private bookmarks (no matter what it’s tagged/commented with)

Nice/neutral tags

A note to self about where you left off

Bookmarks that do not pass the vibe check:

Anything rude for the comment/tag section of a bookmark — unsure what’s rude? See comment section above

Ranking the fic (see this way more often in bookmarks than anywhere else)

Unread bookmarks (not always a fail, it’s just weird? You can mark for later, why are you bookmarking my story without reading it?)

If your bookmark is private? It doesn’t matter how you tag/note it/whatever. But if it’s public? Author’s will sometimes go look at bookmarks because people will leave nice little comments that make us feel good. If you say something mean we can’t even delete it. But I can guarantee we’ll block you!

Yes, bookmarks are for the reader, but just because you didn’t intend for an author to see what you said doesn’t make it any less mean. If it’s public: shame on you. Make a bookmark that’s mean in private, then I won’t care.

Conclusion

Don’t be mean. If you don’t like a story, you don’t have to say anything. It takes more time to leave a nasty comment or bookmark something in a mean way than it does to just back out of the fic. I get it, you don’t like the fic. I don’t like every fic I read. You know what we do? We use the back button.

We’re all people, we all have lives and things going on. Just know 2024 is the year I’m no longer replying to nasty comments. I’m deleting them, blocking if I want to, and moving on.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Again, this post has a very aggressive tone because I’m sick of seeing mean comments on my friend’s fics. Will this stop those comments? No, but I hope it lessens them.

This truly is just about educating people. If you have any questions, anything you want to add. Feel free, pop off monarchs.

#ao3 #writer #etiquette #etiquette fails #psa #rant #please just do better

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ace-aro-queerplatonic-positivity · 11 months

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The Multiamory Podcast did an Episode (Ep.438) discussing the intersection of polyamory and aromanticism.

Explicitly polyamorous/ polyaffectionate aromantics, not asexuals!

You are all welcome to chip in/ add on through reblogs and tags and commentary!

The relevant Facebook announcement got shared into a group I happen to be in and as I commented, thanking the person for sharing it seeing as the group wasn’t aro-related at all, I got politely asked to explain how polyamory works for me as an aromantic asexual.

Keep in mind this explanation was targeted for an audience/ readership of allo-allo polyamorous people.

Also: CONTENT WARNING ⚠️

Internalised acephobia, self-depreciation, implication of sexualised abuse, mention of faithfulness

So the first thing I always say is that: disclaimer – obviously I can only talk about my personal perspective and aromantic people are very diverse, asexual people are very diverse

I just happen to be an asexual aromantic, whereas many aromantics are allosexual (meaning any sexual orientation that isn’t asexuality); seeing as this post is explicitly about the intersection of aromanticism and polyamory

I personally want a queerplatonic/ alterous life partner

That’s my personal wish, I want someone to share my life with

I consider myself polyaffectionate, seeing as I’m not “amorous” in any way shape or form

To me this means a few things

1) I practice relationship anarchy – I do not place a romantic relationship on some arbitrary pedestal, every relationship is important to me and that relationship looking like romance doesn’t mean much

For the other things I need to explain about myself first

I am a sex-averse asexual. I have had sex. I didn’t like it. I am generally sex-positive but I don’t necessarily want/ seek sex as part of any committed relationship; rather I’d avoid sex

(This following bit is self-depreciation but) Because of that I think I shouldn’t “tie down” any partner. Someone willing to be with me shouldn’t suffer for it and hence I don’t see a point in being possessive/ demanding sexual faithfulness – although the details would need to depend on the partner(s) and situation

Also due to me not making a grave distinction between “best friend” and “date friend” I just think it’s easier to call myself polyaffectionate since relationships involving me need thorough explanation anyway

I have explored through writing* what I’d like for myself and that basically always ends up that I’d like to be comfortable “sharing” my partner with pre-determined other people

I would only agree to a closed polycule, although I don’t need to be involved with everyone in it

Also I always hoped if I get that, if I get to have a queerplatonic polycule, it could be a found family and support network more than dating in the classical sense

Again, keep in mind all of this is just my personal perspective and I don’t speak for other aromantic people or other asexual people

Many asexuals are fine with/ want sex

Some aromantics are non-partnering/ would only practice solo-poly

My ideal relationship would be having one or two partners I live with, who are my family, who I can cuddle or leave to their own devices, basically a house share and we each cuddle and kiss each other as we please 🙈

—The thing is I’m aware I probably talk like someone who doesn’t value themself enough

Like, if I believed I could be enough for a partner my whole stance would be slightly different

But I have not yet made the experience that what I can offer (a sexless, queerplatonic commitment) is enough for people

I’m fully aware that mindset isn’t healthy but until someone proves I can be enough for them, well… “outsourcing” sex is easier than worrying

And if it’s a genuine relationship I’m happy for them, in any case

I wholeheartedly mean that I’d like a closed polycule and would be comfortable as described

But I also acknowledge that part of it comes from feeling inadequate/ not wanting to hold back the person(s) I love

I just know I can’t provide what – to many people – is a need

And since I know I can love more than one person at the same time I think getting to be with someone who also has other partners is my best chance… if that makes sense

As I said, I write a lot and with my latest novel-attempt* I think I found the relationship model I’d be comfortable with 🙈

* I have indeed written multiple fan fictions as well as original fiction about a self-insert character navigating relationships as I would like them to play out (setting aside the overarching plot of the individual fiction works) but seeing as I’m a pro-shipper and actually do have a writing side-blog, I don’t feel all that comfortable to just straight-up link my own writing here. Due to the here relevant works all featuring central relationships with a self-insert character, these works are also deeply personal. More so than other ship fiction I have written. I have linked these works on here before - as part of “#queerplatonic fiction” lists - but never really put “my name” (this blog’s URL) directly to them

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nightswatchdisbandmentera · 2 years

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Welp, I’m going to talk about Robb’s Will…

I’ve been seeing some strange commentary on Robb’s Will lately that I found a little annoying and wanted to address. People seem to think that the will is invalid or irrelevant for a slew of reasons. I’ve seen people say that the will is automatically moot because it was made with the assumption that Bran and Rickon were dead, but since they are alive then it’s contents are invalid and can be ignored. Others have also agued that Jon cannot possibly be the named heir since he is not a Tully, so the Riverlords would be unlikely to follow him. This last point has given rise to the rather nonsensical theory that Lady Catelyn was named heir instead of Jon.

I don’t particularly understand or agree with these opinions. While there are several issues with the will, I don’t think it’s fair to completely write off its validity. It’s true that Bran’s and Rickon’s survival complicates matters, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Jon is out of the picture in regards to Winterfell’s succession. The last part about Catelyn can simply be disproven since it’s already been confirmed (through TWOIAF app and the wiki) that Jon was the named heir.

The thing is, I see Robb’s will acting on multiple fronts all of which are working in tandem toward a larger goal. The will:

Legitimizes Jon as a Stark

Names him heir to all of Robb’s lands and titles

Presumably makes allowances for Jon to be freed from his vows, and

Places Jon’s claim over Sansa’s (most probably moves her to the end of the line)

Given all these points, I’m going to try and parse through the text in this post to explain why I think that Robb’s Will can be regarded as a valid document and why Jon is still Robb’s heir.

Disclaimer: I understand that we do not know of the will’s actual contents. The wording Robb used matters a lot and can be subject to interpretation - depending on which side of the aisle the Northern lords will choose to fall under. I am not arguing that Jon will be made King solely based on the Will either, we’ll have to wait for the next two books to see how the situation develops. I will also admit that my knowledge of medieval succession is not extensive. Thus, I’ll try to interpret this purely on the basis of what is provided in the text itself - with some added commentary from George R.R. Martin where necessary.

I. Jon’s Legitimization

So let’s start with what I consider to be the will’s first act, which is Robb’s decision to legitimize Jon. This is probably the most undervalued and the most important part of the document since it’s the very basis of Jon’s legal claim to Winterfell. This is because Jon cannot be made heir before he is legitimized (presumably).

The main point with Jon’s legitimization is that Robb acknowledges him as the last of his brothers. Sansa is still alive but she is currently married to Tyrion Lannister. This does not please Robb as the Lannisters would be able to claim Winterfell through her; and Lady Catelyn agrees that this scenario is quite unpleasant. Robb also knows that Bran and Rickon are dead, as they were allegedly killed by Theon Greyjoy. So, Robb wants to name Jon heir since he is the last living son of Eddard Stark. But first, he must legitimize him in order to give him a legal claim.

“Mother.” There was a sharpness in Robb’s tone. “You forget. My father had four sons.”

She had not forgotten; she had not wanted to look at it, yet there it was. “A Snow is not a Stark.”

“Jon’s more a Stark than some lordlings from the Vale who have never so much as set eyes on Winterfell.”

[…]

He is set on this. Catelyn knew how stubborn her son could be. “A bastard cannot inherit.”

“Not unless he’s legitimized by a royal decree,” said Robb. “There is more precedent for that than for releasing a Sworn Brother from his oath.”

- Catelyn V, ASOS

Previously, Catelyn had suggested some distant cousin in the Vale as a potential heir over Sansa, but Robb shuts it down because they would not be familiar with Winterfell. Jon is though, and Robb further recognizes that Ned Stark had four sons - three trueborn, one a bastard. Robb means to reverse the issue of Jon’s illegitimate birth through legitimization and cites that there is enough precedent to do this.

Catelyn, for her part, does not challenge the legality of this. Instead, she later resorts to emotional pleas - the Blackfyre rebellions, Sansa’s and Arya’s rights - to try and get Robb to reconsider, but she is unsuccessful because Robb is set on the idea. Even when she tries to make her case as a mother supporting her son, it doesn’t work:

“I cannot,” she said. “In all else, Robb. In everything. But not in this … this folly. Do not ask it.”

“I don’t have to. I’m the king.” Robb turned and walked off, Grey Wind bounding down from the tomb and loping after him.

- Catelyn V, ASOS

Robb throws his status as king in Catelyn’s face, further cementing that he has the will and the power to legitimize Jon; and Catelyn once again does not and cannot challenge him. So this can be regarded as a legally sound act.

Robb wasn’t the only one who thought that he could use his power as king to legitimize Jon. Stannis also tried to act on his power as King of the Seven Kingdoms in order to install Jon as a much needed northern ally:

“I am the only true king in Westeros, north or south. And you are Ned Stark’s bastard.” Stannis studied him with those dark blue eyes. “Tywin Lannister has named Roose Bolton his Warden of the North, to reward him for betraying your brother. The ironmen are fighting amongst themselves since Balon Greyjoy’s death, yet they still hold Moat Cailin, Deepwood Motte, Torrhen’s Square, and most of the Stony Shore. Your father’s lands are bleeding, and I have neither the strength nor the time to stanch the wounds. What is needed is a Lord of Winterfell. A loyal Lord of Winterfell.”

[…]

He would make me Lord of Winterfell. The wind was gusting, and Jon felt so light-headed he was half afraid it would blow him off the Wall. “Your Grace,” he said, “you forget. I am a Snow, not a Stark.”

“It’s you who are forgetting,” King Stannis replied.

Melisandre put a warm hand on Jon’s arm. “A king can remove the taint of bastardy with a stroke, Lord Snow.”

- Jon XI, ASOS

The context here is a bit different since Stannis offering Jon the position of Lord of Winterfell and not king. However, legitimizing Jon is still something Stannis has to do in order to install Jon as Lord of Winterfell. Even further, I would think that it’s the first thing he ought to do since this is what would give Jon the legal right to hold this position. Stannis’ offer here, much like Robb’s Will, would act on multiple fronts: first Jon has to be legitimized, then he has to be made Lord of Winterfell. So legimization presumably stands on its own unless Stannis specifically states that Jon is only legitimate insofar as he serves as Winterfell’s lord. Though I’m not sure how this could even be worked into the royal decree or how necessary it would be.

We also have more evidence for a bastard being legitimized and made heir with Ramsay Bolton - this happened due to the lack of any other successors.

When asked about the issue of Robb’s Will, GRRM stressed that only a king has the power to legitimize a bastard.

As to what is and is not moot... the key point is, only a =king= can legitimize a bastard......

- SSM, 08/20/2000

It’s important to note the context for this SSM, as the person asking this question was talking about the validity of Jon rejecting Stannis’ offer given Robb’s Will. Still, the point is that a king can legitimize a bastard and, well, Robb was the King in the North.

So, Jon is legitimate. Full stop. Even if Bran and Rickon are revealed to still be alive, this part cannot be changed. In fact, part of Catelyn’s argument is that the legitimization of a bastard cannot be undone.

“[…] If you make Jon legitimate, there is no way to turn him bastard again.”

- Catelyn V, ASOS

So there you have it. And because Jon is legitimate, he now has a legal claim to Winterfell.

We don’t know the specifics of where legitimized bastards are placed in the line of succession, and I’m sure that Martin will want to explore those tensions should there be a Stark succession crisis. However, as things stand, Jon is the oldest legitimate surviving son of Eddard Stark. His age over his siblings’ also gives him an advantage per the normal rules of succession. That is unless the will was written in such a way that Jon’s legitimization depends entirely on Bran and Rickon being dead, but I see no logical reason why that would be the case. At this point, Robb was very sure that his two younger brothers were dead and so Jon’s legitimization would not be impacted; and it’s likely that they would not be mentioned anyway. So, until the next two books state otherwise, I consider Jon’s legitimization to be an act that stands on its own regardless of his siblings’ status.

Now, there is obviously an issue with this first clause because we can assume that Robb legitimized Jon as the son of Eddard Stark. As we know, Jon is not Ned’s natural born son. He is Lyanna’s. So we ask, can the will still be valid if this one singular point is false? I would argue, yes!

“Mother.” There was a sharpness in Robb’s tone. “You forget. My father had four sons.”

- Catelyn V, ASOS

Ned may not have sired Jon, but he still took him in and claimed him as his son. Bastard or not, in the eyes of the North, Jon is Ned’s son. This recognition is the sole reason for Jon having a bastard’s surname, unlike unrecognized bastards like Gendry. And Jon being so publicly recognized as Ned’s bastard is a big deal, at least to Catelyn.

Many men fathered bastards. Catelyn had grown up with that knowledge. It came as no surprise to her, in the first year of her marriage, to learn that Ned had fathered a child on some girl chance met on campaign. He had a man’s needs, after all, and they had spent that year apart, Ned off at war in the south while she remained safe in her father’s castle at Riverrun. Her thoughts were more of Robb, the infant at her breast, than of the husband she scarcely knew. He was welcome to whatever solace he might find between battles. And if his seed quickened, she expected he would see to the child’s needs.

He did more than that. The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him “son” for all the north to see. When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence.

- Catelyn II, AGOT

It seems that the expectation was that Ned would provide for the child and leave it at that. But Ned went beyond that and even installed Jon in Winterfell before Catelyn and Robb even got there. As Catelyn laments, Ned took Jon in “and called him “son” for all the North to see”.

Not only did Ned claim Jon and choose to raise him along his true born siblings in Winterfell, Jon also grew up to look like Ned; something that could not be said for any of Catelyn’s own sons.

Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him. Somehow that made it worse.

- Catelyn II, AGOT

It’s important that Jon looks so much like Ned in universe. His identity as a Stark cannot be challenged; and we see this when he meets people, e.g., Craster. Because Jon looks so much like Ned, his identity as Ned’s son is ironclad.

The North, in general, is very aware of Jon’s status as Ned Stark’s son.

Alys knelt before him, clutching the black cloak. “You are my only hope, Lord Snow. In your father’s name, I beg you. Protect me.”

- Jon IX, ADWD

And Jon himself is not afraid to remind the Northern lords of this when necessary.

“[…] I may seem a green boy in your eyes, Lord Norrey, but I am still a son of Eddard Stark.”

- Jon XI, ADWD

And that’s not all. You see, everyone knows about Ned Stark’s bastard son.

“You were never the boy you were,” Robert grumbled. “More’s the pity. And yet there was that one time … what was her name, that common girl of yours? Becca? No, she was one of mine, gods love her, black hair and these sweet big eyes, you could drown in them. Yours was … Aleena? No. You told me once. Was it Merryl? You know the one I mean, your bastard’s mother?”

- Eddard II, AGOT

“Snow, the boy is called,” Pycelle said unhelpfully.

“I glimpsed him once at Winterfell,” the queen said, “though the Starks did their best to hide him. He looks very like his father.”

- Cersei IV, AFFC

“I am Tyrion Lannister.”

“I know,” Jon said. He rose. Standing, he was taller than the dwarf. It made him feel strange.

“You’re Ned Stark’s bastard, aren’t you?”

- Jon I, AGOT

The singer rose to his feet. “I’m Mance Rayder,” he said as he put aside the lute. “And you are Ned Stark’s bastard, the Snow of Winterfell.”

- Jon I, ASOS

“My lady?” Ned said at last. “You have a baseborn brother … Jon Snow?”

- Arya VIII, ASOS

“I will permit you to take the black. Ned Stark’s bastard is the Lord Commander on the Wall.”

- Jaime VI, AFFC

Myranda gave a shrewed little smile. "Yes she was the very soul of wisdom, that good lady. [...] There's a new High Septon, did you know?. Oh, and the Night's watch has a boy commander, some bastard son of Eddard Stark's." "Jon Snow?" she blurted out, surprised. "Snow? Yes it would be Snow, I suppose"

- Alayne II, AFFC

“Ned Stark was here?”

“At the dawn of Robert’s Rebellion. The Mad King had sent to the Eyrie for Stark’s head, but Jon Arryn sent him back defiance. Gulltown stayed loyal to the throne, though. To get home and call his banners, Stark had to cross the mountains to the Fingers and find a fisherman to carry him across the Bite. A storm caught them on the way. The fisherman drowned, but his daughter got Stark to the Sisters before the boat went down. They say he left her with a bag of silver and a bastard in her belly. Jon Snow, she named him, after Arryn.

- Davos I, ADWD

As far as Westeros and the North know, Jon is Ned Stark’s son because he was claimed as such. So, should Jon’s true parentage be revealed, a crafty supporter may argue that since Ned claimed Jon as his own, raised him in Winterfell, and gave him a lordling’s education, then the will could be taken as a form of legal adoption. Of course, Robb had no idea of Jon’s true parentage but given that he had no other options at the time, I believe his decision would still have been the same if he knew.

The wording may once again make or break Jon’s case. If the will specifically states that Jon is legitimized as a true born son, born of Ned’s body, then there’s very few loopholes that can be exploited. However, if the will’s language is vague enough, then Jon can still be regarded as the oldest surviving Stark child.

It also depends on Howland Reed’s position since he is perhaps the only person who knows that King Robb Stark’s heir is Prince Rhaegar Targaryen’s last surviving son. We will have to wait for the rest of the series to see how Reed navigates this issue, but it is by design that he is seemingly the nexus of all this information regarding Jon Snow. Robb’s envoys were specifically sent to Reed, so we can safely assume that he has a part to play in the upcoming novels.

II: Jon as Robb’s Heir

The minute Jon became legitimate, he gained a legal claim to Winterfell. Again, we do not know where legitimized bastards fall in the line of succession but I will assume that their inheritance over any trueborn heirs would be contested unless stated otherwise.

This brings us to the next point, that Robb specifically designated Jon as his heir once he legitimized him. The wording in this part matters since there is the chance that this clause is conditional. Obviously, Jon became Robb’s heir in the event that Robb did not sire any sons of his own; and we know that Robb died without issue. There’s the question of whether Jon was named heir presumptive or heir apparent given that this will was to be acted on in the future; though it’s most probably the former option. All we know is that, per the will, Jon was set to inherit everything once Robb died without heirs of his own.

But we know that Robb’s siblings are still alive and they would have inherited too so the question becomes, how does Jon fit in with his siblings?

Arya is missing and believed to be dead so it’s safe to assume that Robb makes no allowances for her in the will.

“[…] No one has seen or heard of Arya since they cut Father’s head off. Why do you lie to yourself? Arya’s gone, the same as Bran and Rickon […]”

- Catelyn V, ASOS

Arya may very well turn up alive with a giant wolf pack at her back, which would undoubtedly prove her identity as a Stark, but again we are not sure if she could take precedence over Jon now that he’s the eldest legitimate son of the previous, previous Lord of Winterfell.

Sansa has a claim but that can be challenged since this entire situation arose out of Robb wanting to prevent the Lannisters from claiming Winterfell and the North through her or her potential sons by Tyrion. As such, the will either bumps her down the line of succession or perhaps provides some stipulations that prevent her from inheriting so long as she remains wedded to Tyrion Lannister. We do not know the exact wording. Either way, we can assume that Jon is placed above her.

“A king must have an heir. If I should die in my next battle, the kingdom must not die with me. By law Sansa is next in line of succession, so Winterfell and the north would pass to her.” His mouth tightened. “To her, and her lord husband. Tyrion Lannister. I cannot allow that. I will not allow that. That dwarf must never have the north.”

“No,” Catelyn agreed. “You must name another heir, until such time as Jeyne gives you a son.”

- Catelyn V, ASOS

Bran and Rickon, I think, are the main problem here. Bran is often regarded as Robb’s heir throughout the series and even holds the title Prince of Winterfell, which denotes this status. Rickon also holds this title as Bran’s heir. So some lords may ask, “how can Jon be Robb’s heir when the true born brothers are still living?” And, there are some Northern lords who do know of the boys’ survival, considering that Wyman Manderly has pledged to join King Stannis should Ser Davos bring him Rickon Stark. This is definitely a problem and they might need to work things out through means outside of this will’s framework - i.e., whatever the northern lords ultimately want because this part of the will is possibly very open to interpretation. Arguments will certainly be made over who is more fit to rule given age and experience; and both of these would work in Jon’s favor.

I would also imagine that the wording makes all the difference. Does Robb reference Bran’s and Rickon’s deaths? Or does he only allude to his own lack of a son? We simply don’t know but I would argue that even if Bran and Rickon were mentioned, Jon is still not discounted from inheriting Winterfell. This is because it goes back to the first point: Jon is now the oldest surviving legitimate son of Ned Stark.

Anyway, what we do know is that Robb mentions wanting Jon to succeed him if he dies without issue.

“Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North.”

- Catelyn V, ASOS

This point might be hotly contested because Robb thinks Jon is the only one of his brothers who still alive. Again, how the will is worded and interpreted will make all the difference. We just have to wait for the books to come out.

An anti-Jon argument that has arisen from some (specific) sections of the fandom is that Jon could not have been named Robb’s heir because he is not a Tully and thus cannot rule over the Riverlords. The alternative is that Catelyn was named heir instead of Jon so as to appease the Riverlords. Laughably, this is no solution at all and causes even more problems than it solves. I am not entirely sure what basis this theory stands on - though we know why it came about, the originator is notedly against Jon as evidenced by his more general commentary on the character.

Whether or not Jon is a Tully ultimately is not much of a hinderance. Jon would not be taking their castles; the Riverlords would still be in charge, albeit under a different king now. They might want someone with Tully blood to inherit and so they would be inclined to support Catelyn’s children, but the current lord of Riverrurn is a signee of the document. And I would assume that since the will is a legal decree, its contents are biding. And, there is no mention of any of the Riverlords who were present at the signing raising any objections to Robb’s decree as it was passed around. We also know that the Riverlords who signed the will are still alive, free or not, which is a point that George R.R Martin has been keen to stress.

Edmure and the Greatjon are prisoners, true... but you are forgetting the envoys that Robb sent to Howland Reed... Galbart Glover, Maege Mormont, Jason Mallister... they are all alive and free.

- SSM, 08/06/2000

Coupled with the confirmation on the WOIAF and the Wiki, Jon is Robb’s heir and a legal claimant to not just the King in the North title, but the King of the Trident one as well; of course, this is dependent on whether the Riverlords would want to rejoin the Northern kingdom down the line.

III: Jon and the Night’s Watch Vows

So we’ve come to the last point - that is the issue of Jon’s vows as a sworn brother of the Night’s Watch. The vows dictate that Jon cannot hold any lands and titles so long as he remains a black brother.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post.

- Jon VI, AGOT

As far as we know, these lifelong vows are taken very seriously and the very first chapter in the series even features a Night’s Watch deserter being executed.

So the main problem is: even if Jon is legitimized and named as Robb’s heir, he still cannot inherit due to his vows. And this problem is a big one. Well, it seems that Robb intended to make allowances for Jon to be relieved from his post:

“Jon is a brother of the Night’s Watch, sworn to take no wife and hold no lands. Those who take the black serve for life.”

“So do the knights of the Kingsguard. That did not stop the Lannisters from stripping the white cloaks from Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Boros Blount when they had no more use for them. If I send the Watch a hundred men in Jon’s place, I’ll wager they find some way to release him from his vows.”

- Catelyn V, ASOS

The dismissal of Ser Barristan and Ser Boros from the Kingsguard - another lifelong sworn brotherhood - is taken as enough precedent for Jon being released from the Night’s Watch vows. This part is quite tricky, though, because it seems that the Watch has to be the one releasing Jon from his vows. We’re not exactly sure how much power Robb can wield over the Watch since it’s technically an independent institution; thus, Jon’s situation is different from Barristan’s and Boros’ since the Kingsguard answers to the crown.

However, there are still some loopholes that Robb seemingly wants to exploit. The Watch is not in its prime and it’s resources and manpower has dwindled considerably over the centuries. Robb seems to recognize that they desperately need men and so intends to work that to his favor. He argues that the trade of 100 men for one boy seems fair enough and may even be beneficial to the Watch.

Catelyn does not push back on his reasoning. She seems to implicitly agree that there is precedent for Jon to be freed from his vows. She instead brings up Jon’s bastardy, which has already been addressed in previous sections. And her later objections do not mention that the Watch may refuse to cooperate or that Robb has no power to do this. She instead tries to make emotional appeals to Robb - appeals that have nothing to do with the Watch. So while this act may be tricky, it’s reasonable to assume that it can be done through some work arounds.

And once again, Robb is not the only one who thinks that Jon can be released from his vows given the right authority. When Stannis offers him Winterfell, Jon mentions that he swore vows not to hold lands or father children. Yet Stannis does not seem to care about this as much as Jon does. Instead, Stannis completely bypasses this point and goes on a tangent about the conflict with the wildlings and the need for a united north under a lord who is sworn to him. In fact, he doesn’t address it at all.

“Yes,” he said, hesitantly, “kings have legitimized bastards before, but … I am still a brother of the Night’s Watch. I knelt before a heart tree and swore to hold no lands and father no children.”

[…]

“As you wish. But consider quickly. I am not a patient man, as your black brothers are about to discover.” Stannis put a thin, fleshless hand on Jon’s shoulder. “Say nothing of what we’ve discussed here today. To anyone. But when you return, you need only bend your knee, lay your sword at my feet, and pledge yourself to my service, and you shall rise again as Jon Stark, the Lord of Winterfell.”

- Jon XI, ASOS

We’re back again to the main point of Stannis’ offer: that he will legitimize Jon as a Stark and make him Lord of Winterfell. Once again, there is an implicit understanding on Stannis’ part that he has enough will and power to bypass Jon’s vows. And it seems that this was Robb’s thought as well.

And we know that there have been people who were offered kingship despite being sworn to a lifelong vow. Maester Aemon, who serves as one of Jon’s parallels, is one such example. Aemon reveals in AGOT that his vows have been tested three times.

“Three times the gods saw fit to test my vows. Once when I was a boy, once in the fullness of my manhood, and once when I had grown old. By then my strength was fled, my eyes grown dim, yet that last choice was as cruel as the first.”

- Jon VIII, AGOT

One of these times is presumably an offer of kingship, which was extended to him in 233 after the death of Maekar I. This is what the wiki tells us:

A Great Council was called in 233 AC after Maekar's death in the Peake Uprising. Since Prince Aegon was considered by some lords to be "half a peasant, it was suggested that Aemon could be released from his sworn vows and thereby succeed his late father. Aemon quietly refused, however, ceding rule to his younger brother, who became Aegon V.

ref.

So there is historical precedent, beyond just Robb and Stannis, for someone being offered an out from their vows.

Martin has also touched on the topic of exceptions made for those sworn to lifelong vows:

Q: The second concerns the oaths of the Night Watch, Maesters, King's Guard, silent sisters, etc. Both Robb and Stannis, and presumably Robb's great lords, thought it was possible that Jon could be released form his oaths. Other than the precedent established by Joffrey with Ser Barristan, is there any other past precedent with any of the other organizations were the members swear poverty, celibacy, etc. to be honorably released from their vows? I ask because if the NW has been around for 8000 years, and many great lords and/or their families may have joined (not entirely willing in some cases), there seems to be a lot of potential for "exceptions" to develop as time went on.

A: Yes, there have been a few other cases, but they have been very rare. Such vows are taken very seriously.

While he acknowledges that such vows are taken seriously, he does not challenge the notion that exceptions develop over time. So the point is, while the NW vows are sworn for life, Jon can be freed from them based on precedent and given the right authority. Robb, as King in The North, seems to think that he is that right authority. We do not know exactly how he planned on approaching the Night’s Watch or if this clause to free Jon from his vows was specifically mentioned in the Will. However, since the will is essentially an emergency document, I think we can assume that Robb made some allowances for this should he be unable to see things through.

A Conclusion of Sorts

If you’ve had no patience to read that wall of text, here’s a TL;DR

Jon is legitimized by Robb and his legitimization stands on its own. Arguably, it is not dependent on Bran and Rickon being alive. As such, Jon is now the eldest of the legitimate Stark children. Though there is an issue with him not being Ned’s natural born son, one can argue that Ned still claimed and raised him as one.

There is no reason to believe that Jon was not made Robb’s heir. We have plenty of meta-textual confirmation that he was the named heir in the will. Bran’s and Rickon’s survival is a roadblock, but that doesn’t diminish the fact that Jon is now legitimate, older than both, and has more experience than any of his siblings.

Jon being a sword brother of the Night’s Watch is certainly a big issue, but there is precedent for people being released from lifelong vows. Because the will is an emergency document - was made in the event that Robb dies without heirs of his own - it’s safe to assume that Robb provided some sort of framework that could be used to remove Jon from his vows.

All this to say that in spite of the various issues surrounding it, I don’t see why Robb’s Will cannot be regarded as a valid decree. And thus, I cannot see why we shouldn’t say that Jon is Robb’s heir.

Before I close out, allow me the opportunity to ask a Doylist question. If the will’s contents can so easily be thrown aside, why would George R.R Martin go out of his way to write it in (two chapters before the Red Wedding, mind you) if it wasn’t to play a role somehow? Why would he spend page time not only writing the conversation between Robb and Catelyn, but also writing cases of historical precedent that can be used in Jon’s favor?

The will’s purpose can’t just be to create drama between the Stark kids. There is plenty of that without Jon being added as a factor - especially since Jon wasn’t even a claimant before the will was written. Now that Robb is dead and Winterfell needs to be restored to the Starks, Martin obviously intends to do something with the will. He even made sure to emphasize that a bastard can be legitimized by a king and there are people still living who know of the will’s contents when asked about it.

I’m not arguing that Jon will automatically become king solely because of the will. What I am arguing is that the will is a valid document and Jon now has as much right to Winterfell as his siblings.

So as it stands, Jon is Robb’s legal heir. How that pans out and develops? Well, we’ll just have to wait for the next two books.

#jon snow #asoiaf #robb’s will #valyrianscrolls #my stuff

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gummybearzgocrazyagain · 2 years

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disclaimer: just cause this post looks the way it looks, it absolutely does not equal to anyone here attempting to propagate any certain type of agenda about very real actual people mentioned in this post, or speculate about the status of their relationship whatsoever; this content was curated with the sole purpose of entertainment and evoking serotonin production in the author’s neurons, with zero allegations implied 🙏

below is my very own list of my fav mileapo moments, ranked 😎

22. sir, there is absolutely no reason to grip him this hard, sir

21. if you absolutely necessarily ought to do fanservice, then let it be done like this, on the level that surely would be appreciated by the audience

20. cat cafe, cause iconiccccccccc

19. bts for the Hidden Messages, nuff said

18. apo wiping mile’s accidental spit on his suit jacket in retaliation is the most #siblingenergy they’ve ever displayed, and i am not opposed

17. the whole ordeal with apo x cardboard cutout of mile, cause also iconiccccccccc

cr. @discluded

16. whatever the fuck was going on on that day specifically

15. that one bts where person filming them comments on how comfy they look laying on top of each other, and mile instinctively replies “yes”, but the next second apo says that they’re not, it’s hot, and mile immediately swerves and says that yeah, nah, it’s not comfy, cause apo is heavy (4:27 time stamp)... like.... we see you

14. i know everyone is like “X Blush“ 🤯🤯🤯, as far as magazine shoots are concerned, and i completely agree, x blush was big time #unhingedenergy, but this is out there in the universe as well, and i am feeling faint

13. farger’s official acc exposing they asses on main, slayyyyyyy they deserved it 💅

fan’s comment:

Admin’s reply:

12. this goes in the same vein, farger knew exactly what they were talking about 🤷‍♀️

11. ability to appear silly yet attractive in equal measure is a huge appeal to me, how are you both so idiot yet so beautiful all at the same time <3

cr. @sinnadreams

10. P’Tong’s reactions to the early fanservice-y filmania era, (6.05 time mark), like, we know they know what they are doing, but Tong did not have to act this done with them, truly delightful + his general attempts to needle and constantly put them on the spot, what’s with spilling that apo just had to drop those corona meds off in person, needling them about “i forgot you have slept together”, or these adorable insinuations ⬇️

tong posting pic of the BOC outing, that is missing mileapo and barcode, for some reason:

immediately commenting on the noticeable absences:

9. p’mile’s general delightful levels of unhingedness with liking/replying to fans tweets, but that one legendary like specifically: "can we all agree that there’s bl actors who have chemistry and then there’s whatever tf mileapo have going on "(c), he be... ahem... he be knowing

cr. to @nattaphum

8. ohhhh, definitely a snippet of the interaction during the singapore kpwt rehearsal... i don’t know why this snippet specifically, but it just gives me such a clear view of them being themselves, the wholesomeness of the dynamic has me <333333

cr. to @nattaphum

7. my fave interview of theirs... the way host has established the vibe where one could feel that this is not being treated like a mundane checklist by him, and he is genuinely interested in guests’ answers, great journalism, this is how you interview minor celebs 🙏

6. the fact that he absolutely knows how to say mile’s name in proper tone of voice, and yet consciously chooses to be on his “p’mai” agenda still.... #deceased

cr. to @silverquillsideas and @nattaphum

5. definitely definitely DEFINITELY this

4. the actual audacity of mileapo saying "yeahhhh we just gonna get filmed for bts, casually advertising for one of our sponsors, while sat here in the middle of completely dishevelled king size bed” - although the previous footage would rather clearly indicate that all our other co-stars have their own separate beds, - “AND be nonchalant about it”… like we know pairing the huge cast off into double rooms is just smart economics and cost-efficient as hell, but goddamn it boc you did NOT have to broadcast the fact that these two platonic besties were not getting separate beds to the whole world like dat

3. probably one of the first bits i saw off the bts footage, no comment needed, we know it is perfectly okay to wholeheartedly embrace your platonic bestie, but was the whole-palm boob clutch really necessary (8:56 timestamp)

2. yeahhhh, thisssss, because... WHY DID HE HAVE TO NYAM, like, what has possessed him to NYAM while being on air like... this keeps me awake at night

1. this. is my prefrontal cortex factually able to process that he was just striking a pose for a pic to be taken? because it’s their job? yes. does it help matters? not at all. unhinged

#mileapo #mile phakphum #apo nattawin #all credit to all the sources mentioned thank yew

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tenebrisdivina · 1 year

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Hello and Welcome. This blog is intended as record and musings of my spiritual path, devotion and practices with the demonic divine and other beings. Alongside a log of witchcraft and occult ritual. I am a priestess of the demonic divine and a certain aspect of the divine masculine energies. My patron is Lord Abaddon. I am also espoused to two Dark Lords (Lord S and Lord O) who I may mention about somewhat on here as well. I am restricted upon what I am able to share however. I am also quite close to Lord Lucifer and I mainly work with Dark Lords and Ladies listed in the Dukante hierarchy, though I do work with some goetic listed and grimoire verum listed Demonic divine as well. I also connect with unknown/recorded demonic divine beings too.

My background is in paganism- I was previously a devotee of Setekh and Kali ma ( this blog was originally heretiquesmusings) for many years before I found my home with the demonic divine, whom I have been connected to and working with for the past 7 years. My practice is demonolatry based, though I am not as restricted. I go where the demonic divine, spirits, gods and my soul guides me. I am female and I identify as non-human (other then human-souled). My past studies and practices included Kemeticism, Kaula Tantra and some Hinduism related to Kali ma, Taoism, Chaos magic, east asian and northern tradition shamanic practices, hedge and traditional witchcraft.

I also work with the qliphoth, eldritch beings, other gods, spirits and journey to the otherworlds regularly.

Other then my spiritual path- I am an artist, dancer, martial artist and have studied traditional Chinese medicine and herbalism among other things.

I am somewhat open to inquiries and questions and I will answer and guide where I can. I am restricted by the demonic divine and my Husbands on what I may share an discuss.

Disclaimer: We each are each individuals, have different energy structures/vibrations and each walk different paths and I don’t expect you to have the same views nor experiences as I do. Nor necessarily agree with my practices. This is my path, workings and gnosis from my personal experiences and what the demonic divine, gods and otherworldy beings I work with- have shared and taught me. It does not automatically apply to others. Though if what I share of the demonic divine helps others, then great.

Courtesy notice: I don't really care to list DNI as I'm not bothered by much, however if you disrespect the demonic divine, practice/advocate/believe in solomonic binding and other such practices- then this is not the blog for you and I suggest you move along.

Anyone who speaks/advocates about it being cultural appropriation to work with any of the demonic divine - including Lilith- or that Qliphotic work is cultural appropriation- will be blocked immediately. I have no tolerance for such nonsense. Also if you attempt to harass or abuse me it should go without saying you will be blocked. and I do use the block button liberally.

If you wish to discuss things in this space, then respecting the demonic divine, My Husbands, and myself( it is my blog after all) is required. This blog is more directed at adults then minors, will discuss dark topics and adult content. This blog is for more advanced/intermediate practices, then beginner work. I also tend to write essays, if that is not to your liking then this may not be the space for you.

Important posts:

I also run an Etsy store:

Other then all of this welcome to my blog!

#demonic divine #dark pagan #demonolatry #occult #witch #paganblr #witchblr

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saintmeghanmarkle · 5 months

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Even Madams go-to paper the Daily Mirror now says the Grifters are boring. by u/GreatGossip

Even Madam´s go-to paper, the Daily Mirror, now says the Grifters are boring. This article just says what we all know - but it is in the Mirror, one of Madam´s outlets. Fuess the check bounced - again. This seems to be happening more and more. Is Madam running out of funds for puffery?" During an appearance on GB News, Lord Kulveer Ranger said: "They're really struggling to get the content. It's all about content. If you want people listening to your podcast and the clicks, you’ve got to have something to say."Andrew added: "Is the point here that unless they're b**ching about the Royal Family, there's no way they can monetise?" Lord Ranger agreed, but said "monetisation of the family only had so much room"."Lord Kulveer Ranger:Kulveer Singh Ranger, Baron Ranger of Northwood (born 21 February 1975)[1] is an English strategy and communications executive, TechUK board member, and Conservative) member of the House of Lords.[2] https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/us-celebrity-news/meghan-markle-prince-harry-struggling-32671306?int_source=nbahttps://archive.ph/wip/JpJJg post link: https://ift.tt/6WFB8EM author: GreatGossip submitted: April 25, 2024 at 11:47PM via SaintMeghanMarkle on Reddit disclaimer: all views + opinions expressed by the author of this post, as well as any comments and reblogs, are solely the author's own; they do not necessarily reflect the views of the administrator of this Tumblr blog. For entertainment only.

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coffeeheartaddict2 · 1 year

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To the friend who has everything

Book: Open Heart (post series)

Characters: Ethan Ramsey, Tobias Carrick

Warnings: none

Rating: General audiences

Category: fluff

Word count: 512

Summary: a look at some of the experiences that Ethan and Tobias gift each other over the years

Disclaimer: characters belong to Pixelberry

Authors note: this comes from a Totally Tobias week about Tobias and cars and in my answer I stated that Tobias and Ethan gifted each other experiences of driving cars they would not normally drive. So this is the fic, I was going to do edits and a fic but I am not in the mood to argue technology so a fic it is.

🚗🚗🚗🚗🚗🚗🚗🚗🚗

It was a few months out from Ethan’s wedding. Casey had got him to agree to a combined bucks/hens weekend but what do to for the male activity. Tobias had been to a few strip clubs in his younger years, more out of curiosity than anything but now as he was getting older it was not exactly his scene. Sure the women were beautiful and there was rules in place to ensure they were respected but it did not sit right with him.

Then Tobias vaguely remembered a chat that he and Ethan had many moons ago in their Hopkins days, pre Estelle where they discussed which cars they wish they could drive. The usuals were there, Aston Martin’s, Ferrari’s but they also discussed race cars also. Tobias did a search and found a track in Vegas that allowed not only a ride along but also for them to drive. Tobias booked it in for the Saturday.

Ethan was curious to find out what Tobias had planned for the day. He would have been more than happy to stay in bed with Casey but he went so when they boys pulled up at the Las Vegas Motor Speedway.

“We have a ride and if we wish, we get to drive a NASCAR car.” Said Tobias “Happy Bachelor weekend.”

The boys had a great time. All but Elijah drove as well. Over a late lunch Ethan asked Tobias, why driving. Tobias stated he remembered a snippet of conversation back in their Hopkins days when he was trying to decide on the activity for today. Tobias also stated he is glad he did as it was much more fun than he thought it would be. Ethan agreed. As they headed back to the hotel Ethan thought of other driving experiences he could do.

In the September of that year, after the excitement of the wedding and and honeymoon and the shock of Casey’s missed miscarriage had died down, Ethan wanted to show his appreciation for the support Tobias showed him and Casey.

He remembered how much he enjoyed the NASCAR experience in Vegas. He thought maybe a more classic car this time around. He did a search and found a company just out of Boston that allowed people to drive classic cars. You could book your car at the time of booking and Ethan was excited that there were two Aston Martin DB5’s available.

The day came and all Tobias knew is that there was driving involved. Needless to say when Tobias was handed the keys to a DB5 after the orientation he was surprised. Both men enjoyed the drive. It was everything they ever hoped it would be.

They had lunch after. Tobias did not think that experience would not be topped and to be honest, neither did Ethan. Both men deciding that every so often, not necessarily a birthday they would tick cars off their car bucket list. Both men were excited by this and knew that they would have many happy memories of their renewed friendship to look back on.

——

Authors note: very short and very sweet but who does not love Ethan and Tobias being besties content?

So I made a change, initially it was going to be milestone birthdays but then realized that when they were 40 (in 2022) they were friends again but had too much Leland fallout still happening. So I changed it. Their last Car experience is Tobias 60th. They run out of cars a bit but also they are starting to worry about not enjoying the experience of the driving as much. I know these men at 60 will be pretty damn healthy but they feel ending it there is great.

Thanks elsa for the Totally Tobias Tuesday that inspired this fic- sorry it took me awhile to get to it.

Tagging: @jerzwriter @jamespotterthefirst @genevievemd @cariantha @tessa-liam @liaromancewriter @potionsprefect @socalwriterbee @youlookappropriate @schnitzelbutterfingers @binny1985 @alj4890 @lucy-268 @ofmischiefandmedicine

@choicesficwriterscreations @openheartfanfics

#open heart #ethan ramsey #choices fanfic writers creations #tobias Carrick #men and their toys #Ethan and Tobias bromance #fic of the week #open heart choices #choices stories you play

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thegardenenthusiast · 8 months

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Disclaimer

The information provided in this blog is intended for general informational purposes only. The content provided in this blog is based on commonly accepted gardening practices, and it is not a substitute for professional advice.

While we strive to offer accurate and up-to-date information, gardening practices can vary based on regional climates, soil conditions, and other factors. Readers are encouraged to consider their specific local conditions and seek advice from local gardening experts or agricultural extension services for tailored recommendations.

"The Garden Enthusiast" and its author(s) assume no responsibility or liability for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of the information provided. The use of any information from this blog post is at the reader's discretion and risk.

The blog may contain links to external websites or resources. "The Garden Enthusiast" is not responsible for the content, accuracy, or practices of external sites. Links to such external sites do not imply endorsement, and readers should review the privacy policies and terms of service of those sites.

Gardening involves inherent uncertainties, and results may vary. Readers are advised to exercise due diligence and seek professional advice before making decisions based on the information presented in this blog post.

"The Garden Enthusiast" reserves the right to modify, update, or remove content at any time without prior notice. The views and opinions expressed in this blog post are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of "The Garden Enthusiast."

By accessing and using this blog post, readers acknowledge and agree to the terms of this disclaimer. If you do not agree with these terms, it is recommended that you refrain from using the information provided in this blog post.

For any specific gardening concerns or questions, readers are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals or local gardening authorities.

Thank you for your understanding, and happy gardening!

"The Garden Enthusiast"

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womanstudiesforwomen · 3 years

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Summary of V. Solanas’ SCUM manifesto

By @womanstudiesforwomen

Disclaimer: this is a section-by-section summary of the manifesto. It is not a substitute for reading it oneself and forming one’s own opinion, it is merely a tool to aid in the organising of the ideas represented.

Section: summary of the statement made in the section

Opening : it is the responsibility of women (humans of the female sex) to “overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation and destroy the male sex”.

Several paragraphs of what appears to be satire: reversing the script of many male philosophers who posed that women were inferior to men in make and mind, Solanas poses that it is instead men who are inferior to women in make and mind.

War: men resort to violence to prove their worth.

Niceness, Politeness, and ‘Dignity’: to conceal the feelings of self-hatred and contempt created by their poor self-worth, men have devised a social code which prioritizes emotionlessness and the absence of opinion (objectivity).

Money, Marriage and Prostitution, Work and Prevention of an Automated Society: there are only six reasons for there to be a money system, and they are all generated by men. Essentially, money buys (1) companionship, and gives men (2) purpose (usefulness), (3) power and control, (4) a substitute for expressing love and affection, and (5) an “eternal, never-ending goal” as well as (6) a basis for fatherhood.

Fatherhood and Mental Illness (fear, cowardice, timidity, humility, insecurity, passivity): through emotional distance and frequent absence, the father becomes a figure from which children seek approval. Since men disapprove of emotions and opinions, children are trained into passivity. Particularly, young girls become Daddy’s Girl, that is, girls who praise their fathers and are unwilling to examine their flaws (and by extension, those of all men).

Suppression of Individuality, Animalism (domesticity and motherhood), and Functionalism: men are utterly dependent upon mothers, turning every woman they encounter, even their own daughters, into substitute mothers. For this reason, men seek to keep women interchangeable in function with every over female.

Prevention of Privacy: men do not care for women’s privacy and, in fact, seek to invade it at all times. Indeed, the familial structure is characterized by the constant “(violation of) the females’ rights, privacy and sanity.”

Isolation, Suburbs, and Prevention of Community: through keeping society divided in family units, men keep women isolated from the rest of civilization. They fear sharing women, their favourite commodity.

Conformity: men define themselves through a strict set of rules which they are afraid to cross when seeking individuality. Thus, they do their best to establish themselves as a Man, and define women as the opposite.

Authority and Government: wanting guides (mothers) in their lives, men put in place authorities. But since they refuse to accept their dependence upon women, men make all the authorities male.

Philosophy, Religion, and Morality Based on Sex: in order to give their lives meaning, men invent philosophy and religion. Men use religion as a tool to “keep women tied to men” and to “try to expiate the guilt and shame (they feel)… at being male”. On the other hand, male philosophy only represents the perspective and realities of men, not those of women too as they like to believe.

Prejudice (racial, ethnic, religious, etc) : the choosing of scapegoats by men creates a hierarchy where the men on top have the greatest access to women.

Competition, Prestige, Status, Formal Education, Ignorance and Social and Economic Classes: the men who have these appear to have the greatest worth, and they may keep women company because women are kept ignorant and unable to detect the incompetence of men. Additionally, men favour the status quo and only ever upend it if they want to be on top.

Prevention of Conversation: “Male ‘intellectual conversation’ is a strained compulsive attempt to impress the female”. Daddy’s Girl was taught to pander to men and so she keeps her conversational skills on the same level.

Prevention of Friendship (Love): since contempt is rife in society because of men’s imposition of rules which define men and women, friendship cannot exist in society, and neither can love, of which friendship is the basis. Men offer two substitutes: ‘Great Art’ and ‘Culture’ and Sexuality.

‘Great Art’ and ‘Culture’: male art and culture are believed to be the epitome of great thinking. Their greatness cannot be contested: their appreciation is a mark of superior thinking.

Sexuality: when sex is sacred, it reinforces women’s attachment to men. When women banalize sex, they stop associating it with male holiness.

Boredom: society as engineered by men for men is utterly boring because men themselves are boring.

Secrecy, Censorship, Suppression of Knowledge and Ideas, and Exposes: to keep their feelings of worthlessness hidden and to maintain their dominance in society, men censor ‘dirty’ words, suppress anything which reveals their weakness, and expose others as Others to divert attention away from themselves.

Distrust: since men lie about their self-worth all the time, they distrust others and think them to lie as well.

Ugliness: the results of men’s decorating skills are ugly.

Hatred and Violence: violence allows men to express their hate and gives them “a little sexual thrill”.

Disease and Death: the cures to aging and death are findable, but male institutions won’t be able to find them due to (1) the need to prove one’s Manliness, (2) the exclusivity of education, (3) the guarding of knowledge, (4) the lack of female scientists, (5) the lack of automated sorting of data, (6) the fact that the institutions are money-driven, (7) that men like death, and (8) that money-bias means the hiring of male-superiority thinkers.

Closing paragraphs: men are eliminating themselves through a variety of means. More and more men are encouraging women so that men can claim as their own the achievements of women. Eventually, men are going to decide that women are not necessary for reproduction. SCUM proposes women take control of the country through criminal disobedience (rather than civil disobedience) whilst never being a nuisance to the necessary institutions of society (ex: hospitals); that the money system be eliminated and automation occurs, both of which would negate the need for a government. During the takeover, SCUM suggests women kill the men who do not adhere to SCUM’s principles.

#scum manifesto #valerie solanas #disclaimer: we do not necessarily agree with the content of the post #disclaimer: we do not endorse violence #summary

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gh0st-patr0l · 3 years

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ADHD in DSMP

So about a week back, I made a post about Karl Jacobs (a bit of a passive aggressive one, I’ll admit, but I think it was justified), complaining that a lot of the ‘criticism’ I see about Karl is actually rather insensitive towards his ADHD. I got a lot of responses to that post, and the most common sources of confusion I saw were:

People not understanding what I was saying they should avoid being judgmental of, or-

People who didn’t know that Karl had ADHD or didn’t understand which behaviors were caused by it.

First of all, Karl has confirmed that he has ADHD.

(NOTE: Yes, I know he said ADD. ADD and ADHD used to be categorized as separate disorders, but in the most recent edition of the DSM, it was decided that they are both simply subtypes of the same disorder- ADHD is the correct technical term. ADD is still sometimes used as shorthand by some practitioners to diagnose primarily-inattentive ADHD, but it's a bit outdated.)

Secondly, that original post made me realize that a lot of people who may be well-meaning may genuinely not fully understand ADHD and its symptoms as well as they want to or think they might. If you aren’t aware, Karl isn’t the only one in the DSMP with ADHD- to my understanding, both Technoblade and Dream have confirmed that they have it as well. So, I thought it would be helpful to put together a comprehensive crash-course on ADHD symptoms and how they effect people’s behavior!

Now, before we go further, I want to address something- as I said earlier, I saw some people unsure of whether certain behaviors are ADHD or “just his personality”. I feel the need to point this out above the read more so people will see it. To answer this question, as someone with ADHD;

A lot of times, it’s both. ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder, meaning that it’s caused by the way your brain developed from birth. A lot of the symptoms and effects of ADHD are extremely influential towards the way we think, act, and behave, to the point where “symptoms” and “normal behavior” really don’t have a clean differentiation. This is why it’s technically classified as a ‘disorder’, instead of an illness. While certain aspects of it can require treatment, the condition itself as a whole is not something to be mitigated or eliminated- it’s a part of who we are as a person. This is also why sometimes, even if you don’t have ADHD, you’ll look at certain specific behaviors or experiences and go “Oh, but I do that too!”. A lot of ADHD ‘symptoms’ are just a bunch of normal traits or behaviors, but in combination with each other and some actually problematic aspects, form the appearance of the disorder.

So, what are you allowed to nitpick about it? Well, there’s no real ‘authority’ on this, and even if there was it certainly wouldn’t be me. But if you want my opinion? Nothing.

See, here’s the thing- what I was trying to say when I made that post was not that you can’t be critical of Karl. If you want to say something about his Actions, his Ideals, or the content he creates- sure, go for it, that’s fair. I will agree that there are some very valid and constructive points to be made. But when you post ‘criticism’ about the way he speaks, his interests or preoccupations, his personal behaviors? That’s not criticism. That’s just judging someone.

And you’re allowed to think that stuff! Nobody can control what annoys or bothers them. It doesn’t necessarily make you a bad person. But you don’t need to be vocal about it. You can keep your mean thoughts to yourself. And if you do make posts or communities or whatever about judging someone for things they can’t change about themselves, don’t call it “criticism” or try to morally justify it. It’s not productive or righteous, it’s just rude. Nothing else.

Anyway. Back to Education!

The following will be a descriptive list of visible ADHD behaviors, using Karl’s behavior as examples.

I feel the need to add a disclaimer here- I am not a mental health professional. However! I have ADHD myself, I have taken some psychology courses and done a Lot of research into this stuff, and I’m the daughter of a therapist with access to a DSM. While I’m not an expert, I’d like to think I’m fairly well versed and knowledgeable on at least ADHD. (That being said, if by chance anyone who Is a professional sees this post and notices mistakes, by all means let me know and I’ll fix it!!)

WHAT IS ADHD?

You’re here for the behaviors more than the science, so I’ll keep this short and sweet. ADHD is Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (Known in the past as Attention Deficit Disorder). Despite its name, the root problem of ADHD is not in the person’s ability to pay attention, but their brain’s capability to manage itself. In simple terms, people with ADHD have a lot less control over what their brain does and wants. This results in some behavioral differences along with some personal challenges, namely a difficulty with attentiveness and self-discipline.

Now, onto the symptoms!

ATTENTION

This is perhaps the most visible and pervasive of the ADHD symptoms, hence why it’s the namesake. Inattention is a lack of focus and an inability to stay present and occupied with certain tasks or thoughts.

Because ADHD impairs self-management of the brain, people with it have an extremely hard time directing themselves anywhere but where their brain instinctively wants to go. This results in inattentiveness and the easiness of distraction that is often mocked or stereotyped for people with ADHD.

Here are some examples of how Karl can sometimes display his inattentiveness;

When he has an idea that he seems passionate about, only to drop it or switch to something totally different without warning soon after (either forgetting or getting bored of his original idea).

When he sets out to do something like a build, works on it for a short amount of time, and then immediately gives up or gets someone else to do it.

When someone else is talking and he totally zones out. (NOTE: While I wont make a whole section for it because it’s not easily observable, maladaptive (constant and intrusive) daydreaming is a common ADHD symptom as well!)

It’s important to remember that the whole problem with ADHD is that we can’t control when or what we focus on. When someone with ADHD zones out during a conversation or activity, it doesn’t mean they’re doing it on purpose, and they likely don’t mean any offense! We often are trying our best to listen or participate, but our brain just wont cooperate.

However, inattention is not the only way ADHD effects our focus. There’s also what’s called hyperfocus or hyperfixation, which is when we are so absorbed into a single subject, task, or idea that it is extremely difficult to get us to think about or do anything else. This is usually because our brains have found something that is getting those satisfaction chemicals flowing, and it’s clinging to that with everything it’s got.

People with ADHD will often experience brief periods of hyperfocus. Think of how Karl talks about spending hours straight working on a build or project without eating or drinking, or how he’ll sit down to play a game with someone and end up going six hours without even noticing.

There are also hyperfixations, where someone with ADHD becomes extremely preoccupied with a certain subject, topic, etc. for a period of time. These can be short term- personally, my hyperfixation can sometimes change as quickly as a couple weeks at a time. However, it can also be long term. Karl has been obsessed with Survivor since the second grade- not to mention his memorabilia, rambling, and constant references to Kingdom Hearts.

HYPERACTIVITY/STIMMING

This is a BIG one for Karl. I should clarify; ‘stimming’ is not a technical term, and in professional situations these behaviors are just referred to as Hyperactivity. However, I personally like the term stimming much more and find it far more accurate to what the behaviors actually are, so I’ll be using that instead for this post.

If you’re not already familiar, ‘stimming’ (derived from ‘stimulation’) is an unofficial term used to describe consistent and abnormal patterns of physical and vocal behavior typically expressed by people with ADHD and ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder). This includes things that people usually call fidgets or tics.

(NOTE: There are differences in how people with those two disorders stim. This post will explain stimming specifically from an ADHD perspective! ASD stimming is caused by very different factors and presents itself in much different ways. Do your own research if you’re curious!)

There are two major observable forms of stimming- physical and vocal. Karl expresses both VERY often! I’ll use examples for each type;

Physical Stims: Flapping his hands/arms, jumping up and down when he’s excited, twisting around into odd positions in his chair, throwing, hitting, or tapping things, standing up and pacing around when he’s hyped up or laughing, twisting his rings, etc.

Vocal Stims: When he gets excited and repeats a certain phrase incessantly (Think any variation of “I’m popping off”), making certain repetitive noises while he’s focused on something or bored (”la la la”, the meow-noises, the weird heart-beat noise, etc.), singing or humming, tongue clicking.

It should be noted here that it’s pretty common for people with ADHD to get “stuck” on certain phrases or noises, and be unable to stop repeating them (reminiscent of echolalia, a symptom of ASD, but not the same thing). Think of how Karl might sometimes keep making a weird noise for an extended period of time even though it’s not that funny, or that one time he was physically struggling to keep himself from singing the Bakugan theme. These repetitions are completely impulsive and trust me, we usually know how annoying it is while we’re doing it, but we physically cannot stop.

ADHD stims are caused by the fact that the barrier between our brain and body is much weaker than a normal person’s. Because of this, most ADHD stims are actually very positive expressions of joy, excitement, or enthusiasm! Y’know how when you get excited, you feel like you wanna jump or dance? The ‘hyperactivity’ of ADHD is basically just that, but we don’t have the self-control to Not do it.

Stims can be caused by negative feelings like overstimulation, but in ADHD this is not nearly as common. Usually, the most negative reason we’ll stim is when we’re bored- in that case, our brain isn’t getting the Constant Stimulation that it naturally wants, so stimming is a way to make our own.

Whatever the cause, stimming is natural and impulsive. While different people experience it to varying degrees, those who regularly stim typically have little to no control over it. Suppressing stims is very hard and very frustrating to do.

Besides that, like I said- ADHD stims are often an expression of joy, excitement, or enthusiasm. They’re a beautiful thing that shouldn’t be seen as shameful or annoying!

BEHAVIORAL DIFFICULTIES

ADHD is a disorder which causes a lack of self-control. Naturally, this means that people with ADHD are inherently reckless, impulsive, and struggle with a lack of self-discipline that they cannot fix.

Of course, people with ADHD do still have some level of self-control, and they are still responsible for conscious, long-term behavioral patterns and decisions. However, in regards to most things, they are much, much less capable of controlling themselves than an average neurotypical person is.

These are some examples of how this will often present itself in Karl;

Excessive rambling, dragging on a joke or conversation when it could and should probably have been dropped, etc.

Speaking over or interrupting other people (NOTE: As someone with ADHD- THIS IS ALMOST ALWAYS UNINTENTIONAL. I know it can seem rude or annoying but I promise, 90% of the time if someone with ADHD talks over you, they either didn’t realize or physically couldn’t help it. Please try to be patient!)

Lack of awareness towards social cues (NOTE: Unlike ASD, in which the person is incapable of/has problems fully understanding social cues, ADHD results in a lack of awareness. For whatever reason, we’re often just not paying close enough attention to pick up on things like body language, tone of speech, and facial expression as well as we would normally.)

Indecisiveness and overthinking

Bluntness, lack of subtlety

Unintentional dismissiveness, accidentally ignoring things/people (NOTE: Again, this behavior is purely accidental. In this case, it’s usually just the person genuinely not hearing or processing things.)

Making noises, speaking, joking, etc. at inappropriate times

There’s probably more, but I think you get the idea by now. A lot of the time, behavior which results from ADHD can be seen as rude, lazy, dismissive, or otherwise intentionally harmful. In reality, we just aren’t wired to navigate common social interaction with grace.

In Karl’s case, he’s clearly an incredibly sweet, empathetic, and kind-hearted person, if the various close friends who have talked about him are to be believed. Just because he talks over people or makes a poorly timed joke, that doesn’t mean he meant any harm.

I think that’s about it for how much I wanted to point out! You can do more research if you’re curious, but I feel like this post should be enough to tell you what to keep in mind and be understanding about when talking about/making judgements on Karl, and other people with ADHD.

#sorry if this is longwinded but I had a lot to say so [shrug]#karl jacobs #dsmp #dream smp #dreamwastaken #ghost.txt

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aro-and-tired · 3 years

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Aromantic Experiences in Fandom: Survey Results

PART 1 - PART 2 - ANALYSIS: TIME IN FANDOM - ANALYSIS: AROALLOS VS AROACES

As this is the second part of the discussion regarding results of this survey, I suggest checking out Part 1 before this.

This post will discuss how aromantic content creators in fandom feel when it comes to creating aro-specific content, and how aromantic fans feel when it comes to shipping and their preferences for it. There will also be a space for additional comments.

Content Creators Questions

The first question here was a check asking respondents whether or not they ever created fancontent, such as fanfiction, fanart, etc. 76.5% (701) of the respondents stated that they have created fancontent, while 23.5% (215) stated they haven’t. Non-creators skipped the rest of this section.

Question 1: Which kind of content do you create in fandom?

Starting with the options I had given, from most to least picked we have:

Fanfiction - 71.3%

Fanart - 58.8%

Memes - 44.4%

Meta - 22.3%

Playlists - 16.3%

Fanvids - 7.3%

Merch - 1.9%

Furthermore, many people mentioned other kinds of content they create. This includes headcanons, edits, moodboards, roleplay, cosplay, podfic. translations, fan music and ask blogs.

Question 2: Have you ever made content focusing on aromantic headcanons, or other kinds of aromantic content?

Yes, in addition to other kinds of content - 57.2%

No - 41.5%

Yes, I only make aro content - 1.3%

Question 3: If you have created aro content, would you say it got more or less attention than your non aro content?

52.6% of respondents declined to answer or stated that it wasn’t applicable. Excluding these respondents, the results were

It got less attention - 68.1%

It got the same amount of attention - 29.5%

It got more attention - 2.4%

Question 4: Have you ever felt discouraged by your fandom when it comes to making aro content?

Yes, because I didn’t think it would get attention - 42.6%

Yes, because I was afraid to get hate for it - 35.7%

No - 39.2%

Question 5: Have you ever received hate because of the aro content you made?

40.7% of respondents answered saying they have never created aro content. Excluding these respondents, the results were

No - 81.5%

Yes - 18.5%

Shipping Questions

The first question was a check that asked whether or not the respondents were at all into shipping. 88% (806) said they enjoy shipping, while 11.2% (103) said that they are not. 0.8% (7) said that they are not into shipping, and not involved in fandom. Respondents who picked the last option skipped the following section, and were taken to the end of the survey.

Shippers

Question 1: How important is shipping to you when it comes to being in fandom?

Shipping is my primary form of engaging with fandom - 7.1%

Shipping is fairly important to me, but I’m also into other sides of the fandom - 22.5%

Shipping is about as important to me as other sides of the fandom - 38.8%

Shipping is not particularly important to me, I prefer other sides of the fandom - 29.7%

Shipping is the least important part of engaging with fandom - 2%

Question 2: Do you consider non-romantic shipping (shipping characters as queerplatonic partners, friends with benefits, etc.) to be a valid form of shipping, or do you think shipping only refers to romantic situations?

I think shipping can be both romantic and non-romantic - 71.2%

I think some types of non-romantic situations can count as shipping, but not all of them - 21.7%

I think shipping only refers to romantic situations - 7.1%

Question 3: When it comes to your ships, do you prefer content that focuses more on the romantic or sexual aspect of the relationship?

I prefer content focusing on the romantic aspect, I dislike sexual content - 33.1%

I prefer content focusing on the romantic aspect, but I also enjoy sexual content - 23.2%

It makes no difference / I like both equally - 31.9%

I prefer content focusing on the sexual aspect, but I also enjoy romantic content - 9.4%

I prefer content focusing on the sexual aspect, I dislike romantic content - 2.4%

Question 4: Would you say fans place too much importance on romantic shipping, leaving too little space for other kinds of discussions?

Yes - 84.7%

Unsure - 10.7%

No - 4.6%

Question 5: Here I will give you a list of tropes commonly found in shipping fan content. I ask that you pick 5 that you consider your favorites. You can pick less than 5 if there aren't enough tropes that you like, but please try not to pick more.

As a disclaimer, this question is not meant to judge whether or not someone is a “valid” aromantic or anything of the sort. It also does not necessarily indicate that liking the more popular tropes picked is an aro thing, especially since some of these are also popular in fandom spaces at large. It is only meant to highlight general trends in the community.

The five most popular tropes picked were:

Mutual Pining - 46.8%

Domestic Fluff - 46.5%

Slow Burn - 44.8%

Enemies to Lovers - 40.6%

Friends to Lovers - 38.2%

All of those tropes were picked by more than 300 people. Following these, the only trope picked by more than 200 people was Established Relationship.

Tropes picked by more than 100 people were, in order of popularity, Soulmate AU, PWP, Fake Dating, Getting Together, Porn with Feelings, and with the same popularity Friends with Benefits and Telepathic Bonds.

Tropes picked by less than 100 people were, in order of popularity, Unhealthy Relationships, Unrequited Love, Hanahaki Disease, Arranged Marriage, Hate Sex, Friends with Benefits to Lovers, Jealousy/Possessiveness, First Dates, Break Ups, and least popular Love at First Sight.

Question 6: Here I give you the same list of tropes, but this time I ask that you pick the 5 tropes you dislike the most. Again, you can pick less than 5, but please try not to pick more

The same disclaimers as the previous question apply.

The five most disliked tropes were

Jealousy/Possessiveness - 52.9%

Unhealthy Relationships - 48%

Hanahaki Disease - 42.9%

Love at First Sight - 42.4%

Hate Sex - 40.6%

All of these tropes were picked by more than 300 people. Following these, tropes picked by more than 200 people were Soulmate AUs, Break Ups, Arranged Marriage, PWP and Unrequited Love.

Tropes picked by more than 100 people were Fake Dating and Porn with Feelings.

Tropes picked by less than 100 people were Friends with Benefits to Lovers, Telepathic Bonds, Domestic Fluff, Friends to Lovers, Friends with Benefits, Enemies to Lovers, Established Relationships, First Dates, Slow Burn, and least disliked with the same amount of votes Getting Together and Mutual Pining.

Once again, there is no judgement on anyone who hates popular tropes or loves hated tropes. The aromantic community is not a monolith, there is great variety between us, and no aromantic people is made up only of their aromanticism. There can be all sorts of reasons why one would like or dislike a trope.

That being said, some considerations can be made from these trends. For example, various aros have said that since romantic attraction is confusing we don’t quite get how can someone fall in love with people they barely know, or why is falling in love with a friend considered strange and not the norm. Many of the popular tropes involve characters who have known each other for a long time (Mutual Pining, Friends to Lovers, Slow Burn) while things such as Love at First Sight or First Dates are less popular.

We can also look at tropes various aros find arophobic. Hanahaki Disease is often mentioned as making many aros deeply uncomfortable, and we can see that here few people have it as a favorite, and many pick it as one of their most disliked tropes. Another one that is often mentioned in those discussions is Soulmate AU, that people are more ambivalent about - it’s both the sixth most disliked and seventh most liked. Maybe because it has much more variation than Hanahaki Disease, or maybe because people find it less arophobic as a whole. Or maybe simply due to personal tastes.

Non-Shippers

Question 1: Is the reason you don't enjoy shipping connected to the fact that you are aromantic?

Yes - 87.4%

No - 12.6%

Question 2: Would you say fans place too much importance on romantic shipping, leaving too little space for other kinds of discussions?

Yes - 97.1%

Unsure - 1.9% (2 people)

No - 1% (1 people)

Question 3: Do you think you would be more into shipping if people more often shipped characters in a non-romantic way, such as writing about queerplatonic relationships?

Yes - 82.5%

No - 17.5%

Additional Comments

People were allowed to leave additional comments here about anything that wasn’t covered previously.

Many people remarked on the general amatonormativity that is present in fandom spaces, in particular how it often seems as if fandoms are not interested in character dynamics that don’t involve romance. Some people also talked about often aro headcanons overlap with gay/lesbian headcanons because of the similar traits that can count as coding for both identities, and this can cause conflict within fandom. Overall, many people felt that aromantics are often a subcommunity within the larger fandom communities.

Some people also stated that they feel smaller fandoms are more open to aromantic interpretations than bigger ones. Various people mentioned fandoms that they felt were more or less friendly, often saying that small fandoms with few people tend to be more welcoming to aro fans.

There was also some discussion regarding the concept of non-romantic shipping. While many people agree that they enjoy viewing their ships as, for example, queerplatonic relationships, some also feel that using shipping terminology is inadequate for them. Shipping is by default assumed to be romantic by most people, and some don’t like having to using that word or words derived from it for non-romantic situations.

Part 2 Summary

Many aromantic content creators have felt discouraged by fandom when it comes to making aromantic content, either because they are afraid of not gaining any attention for it or because they fear receiving hate for it.The first concern seems quite valid, as a majority of people who did create aro content found that it got less attention compared to their non-aro content. When it comes to receiving hate instead, less than a fifth was a victim of it. This being said, there’s also a good number of aros who don’t overall feel discouraged when it comes to creating said content.

Out of the aros who enjoy shipping, most of them consider it neither the most nor least important part of their fandom experience, usually also enjoying other ways of engaging with fandom. Most prefer romantic content over sexual content, or enjoy both equally, with a minority favoring sexual content over romantic content. The majority also feels that fandom spaces can be too dominated by shipping.

An even higher percentage of aros who do not enjoy shipping find it too prevalent. A good number of them believe that they do not like shipping because they are aromantic, with many also saying that they would be more favorable to shipping if there was more space for non-romantic shipping.

Thank you for having paid attention so far! You can contact me if you have any questions. As I said in Part 1, I am also working on a couple more posts to look for potential differences in the opinions of a few groups, I will publish them in upcoming days.

#aromantic #arospec #fandom #survey results

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monipoka · 3 years

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Addressing Content Warning Concerns

I am writing in response to points that were brought up concerning my recent post. If you haven’t read that post, you can find it here.

Be warned that this is a very long post (2.8k words). It deals with the topics of pedophilia and rape. Opinions expressed are my own; however, I do offer some resources for you to better educate yourself on this post’s content.

I will not provide a link to the user that responded as she had no ill intentions. Disclaimer if the said user reads this post, I write with peace and love at 4:00 A.M. There are a couple of places where I may sound aggressive or petty, but it is analytical and not meant to invalidate you or your opinions.

Red = user’s response with minimal changes (adjusted for grammar and clarification)

Black = my response

Part 1: Age Regression and Infantilization

To learn more about age regression, here are two lovely articles describing what age regression means medically and socially.

“Age regression [agere] is a form of coping meant to eliminate stress in potentially triggering situations. Agere is not a part of sexual play and never should be. I believe [Moni] is confusing agere for age play.”

This completely misses the mark. I understand that age regressors enter a younger psychological state often as a coping mechanism. There is nothing inherently wrong with age regression as therapy. My complaints are that people are FETISHIZING age regression. As stated in my post, age regressors enter the mindset of a child commonly called a “little space.” These individuals are to be treated like children as it helps them feel safe and loved.

In my experience on Tumblr, writers commonly misinterpret Daddy Dominant, Little Girl (DDLG) or Age Play (the larger, umbrella term) for age regression. For the purposes of explanation, I am going to be using DDLG and she/her pronouns. DDLG is a type of BDSM relationship where the dominant partner (male) takes on the role of a care-giver while the submissive partner (female) takes on the role of a child. This dynamic is pretend and intended for sexual interactions. Keyword here: pretend. While the submissive portrays childish behavior, she still has an adult mindset; therefore, she can give meaningful consent. Once writers describe the submissive slipping into “little space,” her mindset is corrupt as she has age regressed; therefore, she cannot give meaningful consent making the interaction non-consensual as she embodies a child.

“Infantilization is treating somebody as if they’re a child. For example, ‘babying’ someone is the best explanation for it. This, in my opinion, is not pedophilia because it’s not inherently sexual. If it IS sexual, I wouldn’t necessarily classify it as pedophilic, but it is questionable.”

Again, this misses the mark. In a non-sexual context, infantilization is completely okay. My complaints are that people are FETISHIZING the infantilization of characters. I used this term as an alternative language to age regression because I have encountered both on this site.

“Age Play, in my opinion, is pedophilic due to how the 'older’ of the partners is benefitting from it. So if [Moni] and I are thinking the same thing, but not really using the same terminology, then I agree.”

Age Play is a kink in the BDSM community between two consenting and level-headed adults.

Age Regression is characterized by regressing back to a younger headspace.

Sexualizing age regression is pedophilic because age regressors feel, act, and exhibit childlike qualities; they genuinely believe that they are a child.

If age play includes “little space,” then it is pedophilic because the submissive has age regressed.

“None of these is what I would consider illegal due to the fact that both parties are consenting adults. But age play definitely is pedophilic. But, obviously, if both people are adults, it can’t be considered illegal.”

I called pedophilia (and rape) illegal. In the eyes of the law, sexualizing age play--given that the individual is of age--is legal. This point used the transitive property of equality (Trans POE) to point out the hypocrisy in condemning pedophilia but supporting the fetishization of age regression. To clarify, it may not be illegal, but it is morally wrong.

“Infantilization and age regression aren’t inherently pedophilic because they revolve around the idea of a mindset and not physicality.”

This is contradictory to your previous point and only half true. Age regressors largely rely on physical objects (ie. clothes, stuffed animals, pacifiers) to feel safe. While the root of age regression involves a change in psyche, it is reflected in their appearance and environment.

Part 2: Dubious Consent and Non-consensual

To learn more about rape, here is a wonderful article on non-consensual sex.

“Secondly, I’m quite confused on what she [Moni] is saying regarding calling dubcon [dubious consent] and noncon [non-consentual] rape instead of dubcon and noncon.

They are rape, or at least some form of sexual assault, but I don’t think anyone’s trying to mask them from being as such.”

I whole-heartedly disagree. It is apparent by the staggering number of dubcon and noncon posts that people use these terms to try and justify writing rape because they consider it a “fetish.” The reason I am against these terms is that writers never specifically condemn them. Oftentimes, writers mix the content of the fic into their warning section. So, by writing ‘blowjob’ next to ‘dubcon’ it underscores the severity of the situation.

“Categorizing both of the two as 'rape’ could potentially end up being very damaging. Rape is a very triggering and harsh word for some people, which is why I believe a lot of people use non-consensual sex as a term to avoid potentially triggering people.”

Again, I believe that people use dubcon and noncon to try and justify their rape “fetish.” However, if using the term “rape” is triggering to some individuals and the terms “dubcon” and “noncon” are used as a substitution, why aren’t these writers coming out and explicitly saying that they do not support these types of interactions? Furthermore, why are they writing and sharing this content in the first place if they acknowledge it as rape?

“Also, I think it’s important to clarify whether the 'sexual assault’ in fiction is dubious or non-consensual. There’s a big difference between both parties being drunk in a fic (dubcon) and hard rape, and it’s important to distinguish the two in warning columns.”

Drunk people can’t consent. Both situations are rape. The “level” of rape that you refer to, being how consensual it is, is more damaging in my opinion. Because they were drunk, it means less than if they were sober. This perpetuates victim shaming. She was asking for it. She shouldn’t have drunk so much. Rape is rape. It is never okay. And one rape is never better than another.

“Dubcon is also very important to clarify in fics due to the fact that dubcon is only a fictional concept. It helps indicate the level of consent given in the fiction because someone could be not triggered by sex under intoxication but can be triggered by hard noncon.”

I’m going to use a quote I cited from this source because I feel that the writer describes dubcon more eloquently than I can: “What bothers me the most about this situation, and what I think you are partly getting at here, is when people say that their fic isn't "noncon" or they say it is "dubcon" or "noncon depending on your point of view." Come on! Have the guts to admit that what they're writing is rape. Dubious consent bothers me as a qualifier because if you aren't sure whether someone is consenting, you don't do it or it's rape. No excuses. So, I think that people should just bite the bullet and say, this is a rape fic.... If people want to write rape fic, go for it, and I will probably read it, but let's step up and acknowledge what it is we are writing. I take issue with these qualifiers because I think that it is far more insidious than out and out rape porn. At least when we say it is rape, then we can move on to the next step: saying it's wrong, just a fantasy, etc. But avoiding the label perpetuates the rape myths that have had such a damaging effect on victims and justice: did she enjoy it, she didn't really say no, she was a tease, they've done it before. None of those things matter, and when a person labels their fic, they need to stop pretending they do.”

Essentially, the writer is reiterating what I explained in my previous comment that rape is rape. Another statement that I found describes how damaging fiction can be in real life. While most readers understand that what occurred didn’t really happen, there are real-life consequences attributed to it: “...However, not everyone in fandom uses those terms in those ways. And I think that's a problem that we need to fix. Because, especially when situations that exist in real life and that would be called rape in real life are labeled "dubcon," I think it does real harm to us all.....We currently live in a culture where not fighting back - because, for example, the rapist has threatened to kill you, or someone else, or your pet, if you don't go along with it - will very often get a rape case overturned in court. Where judges and juries and god knows the popular media will pick out and analyze every detail of a person's life to determine whether they were asking for it, whether they secretly wanted it, whether they could have conceivably fought back more than they did, why they didn't scream, why they didn't report the blackmail that was used to control them, whether or not their "consent" might've been implicitly given by winks or nods or secret handshakes or a general miasma of sexual invitation. In other words, we live in a world in which rape culture, a thing we all unwittingly participate in at one time or another, works very very hard to label things dubcon when they're really noncon.”

“Most people 'romanticizing’ non-consensual sex are victims who are trying to gain some sort of control over their trauma, so they have every right to do so. If a victim of rape should have the ability to choose whether or not they want to read/write a noncon fic and if they don’t want to use the word rape because it makes them uncomfortable, they don’t have to and shouldn’t be forced to.

As a victim of rape and sexual assault, I find peace in having the control and ability to write about my trauma. It's a way for me to gain back control that I lost and the word rape does make me uncomfortable, it makes many victims uncomfortable, and if I prefer not to use that word then I should not have to if people know synonymous terms.”

Romanticize: deal with or describe in an idealized or unrealistic fashion; make (something) seem better or more appealing than it really is.

If you are writing/reading smut, you are trying to get off. If you are writing/reading dubcon/noncon smut, you are getting off to rape. Instead of writing/reading about how heinous rape is and how disgusting rape culture is, you write/read fics romanticizing rape since as a reader you enjoy the content to some extent: it is with your favorite character, it takes place in a cool universe, it got you horny, you felt good after reading it. Romanticizing rape is damaging to society as it subconsciously makes rape appealing. I doubt that is the intention, but you can’t deny that these underlying connections exist.

There is a difference between writing to cope and writing to entertain. My intention has never been to victim shame. But writing non-consensual sex between anime characters and a reader-insert is a form of entertainment. Remember the purposes of writing we learned about in elementary school? Yeah, I have a hard time believing that this is therapeutic. Journal therapy uses reflective writing to work through trauma and mental health issues. In sexual assault cases specifically, victims often write about their experience and/or letters to their perpetrator(s). However, if this is your way to cope, that’s fine. But writing rape fics is not the same as sharing rape fics.

“People know the severity of noncon and dubcon, which is what I think [Moni] is missing. No one is trying to not make noncon rape because it is rape. People know that it is. Most people just chose to say 'noncon’ to avoid unnecessarily triggering others.”

Do they? I think to my previous comments in this section, people use these terms to downplay the seriousness of rape.

“And there are far more 'consensual’ fics out there than noncon/dubcon fics, so I don’t exactly understand what [Moni] means by 'romanticize’ or 'normalize it.’”

Two comments up I describe what romanticization is and how it is being done in the community. I’m going to ignore the number part of this statement because I feel that there is no relevance; If there is a platform for rape fics and people are engaging with them, numbers don’t matter relative to another type of fic. I call that authors romanticize consensual sex because it is oftentimes not explicitly stated, and I think it should be. The character(s) and reader are in a relationship and sex is a byproduct of that (I do not consider this dubcon). Personally, I have found very few fics where explicit consent is written in. People sometimes think that asking for consent interrupts the flow and ruins a moment. Works of fiction have an impact on real life, and writing/reading about consent serves to reinforce healthy practices.

“Going off of that, I don’t understand what [Moni] means by 'fairly young’ audiences. I'm hoping that most 18+ consumers are, you know, eighteen or older (obviously that's not the case in all situations), and eighteen is a legal adult. Most people over the age of eighteen are very aware of what these terms mean, and they know right from wrong. So, there should be no need to clarify what 'noncon’ is for them.”

My point is that this community is relatively young. I have not encountered many writers or readers who are over the age of 25 (if you are, kudos). At this age, you lack experience. Many of these readers have never had sex or been in a relationship before. While you might know the difference between rape and consensual sex on paper, some of these things are more subtle--especially in person. You referenced drunk sex as something that you’d classify as dubcon although intoxicated individuals can’t consent. I recently read a fic where the reader was drunk and picked up at the bar by a character. He asked the reader if they consented to sex and they agreed. This is still rape as you cannot consent while intoxicated since alcohol impairs judgment. Regardless of enjoyment, which the reader experienced, this is still sexual assault. Can you see the confusion by labeling that dubcon? What is a young adult to think when they’ve been manipulated into sex but told they consented? It’s confusing, so these terms should be clarified.

Part 3: Fiction

To learn more about how fiction affects reality, here is this interesting TED-Ed animation that summarizes fiction’s impact. Also, I read this article that cites more examples.

“Also, our writing shouldn’t have to equate 'good practices,’ because a healthy-minded individual knows how to separate fiction and reality. Give people the freedom to write about whatever they want, whether it’s in private or not, that's what fiction is for.”

You claim that you don’t want to use the word rape to trigger people, so you acknowledge that not all readers are health-minded as they could be suffering from trauma or mental illness. Likewise, some individuals can’t discern fiction from reality.

More importantly, there is a connection between fiction and reality.

“Finally, I don't think we should be so open with connecting real-life issues with fictional ones. No one is going to become a rapist or want to be raped because they read fiction on it unless they’re truly a rapist or have been raped. Equating fictional works to real-life problems is a little insulting, whether [Moni] intended it to be or not.”

Watch the video and read the article. Fiction directly impacts culture and society. It may be insulting, but it’s factual.

“Because in the end, in rape fiction, no one actually got raped. In pedophilic fiction (I don’t support it don’t get me wrong), no one was actually a victim of pedophilia. Because they’re all fictional.”

That doesn’t make it okay. Again, my problem is that writers ROMANTICIZE these topics which reflect poorly on society.

“If someone is concerned about pedophilia and rape fiction, I believe it would be best to work towards real-life solutions to those real-life problems compared to criticizing fiction authors.”

If you’re concerned about pedophilia and rape FICTION, I’d hope you’d criticize FICTION authors. Honestly, this seems to be a diversion tactic to avoid accountability.

Part 4: “No Offense, but You’re Wrong About Everything”

“Overall, I think [Moni] had good intentions, but it was poorly worded.

You pose a counter argument to each of my points and make it sound like I did not educate myself beforehand. You then deflect to talking about rape and pedophilia in real-world context to downplay the severity of pedophilia and rape in fiction.

I sound petty here, and I do not mean for my words to hurt. I wish that there was some communication beforehand since it seems that there was confusion. If my original post was unclear, I hope my comments help.

Conclusion

This is for everyone:

Please check out the resources I provided and do your own research to understand the situation before forming your own opinion.

No hate to the writer of the response. I just wish you would have reached out directly for clarification before taking my words out of context and assuming their meaning.

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bumackerman · 3 years

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DEAR ADULT READERS/CREATORS,

18+ (MINORS DO NOT INTERACT)

^ see that? there is absolutely no way you missed that disclaimer if you understand the proper way to read english. but, let’s say you did miss it... here’s this message;

if you are under the age of 18, do not interact with 18+ adult accounts, or content.

there. hopefully you got the memo. if not, then i guess, one day, you’ll have the great opportunity to be featured in this brand new series of exposing, purging, and reporting minors! i mean... yay you?

disclaimer!; do not send any unnecessary hate to any of these people! it does not solve anything, and it could get you in trouble. just report, and block. thanks.

featured today, we have (drumroll please)... @/matching-with-my-demons!

warning: this post is very long!

alright, so i don’t actually know for sure if he’s necessarily a minor, but i do know that he’s been lying his age, and many, many other details about his life, leading to him getting caught by yours truly.

from this point forward, i will be reciting a briefed account of what exactly happened from a collective point of view of all of the victims involved.

I. beginning.

so, (and i think all of the people involved can agree,) this person is a flirt. automatically. just giving everyone pet names, talking about doing stuff with us, role playing with us, you know. nothing too extreme. i wasn’t suspicious of him at this point. i mean, i was sure he was 18+. to be fair, he did mention that he was 21 turning 22. why wouldn’t we believe him? he was speaking like an adult.

II. little lies & suspicion.

now, i’m not saying that this is impossible, but at multiple times during our conversations, he’d mentioned that he was was fluent in seven languages. seven. it’s not entirely impossible, but you’d think that if english wasn’t someone’s first (of many) languages, they’d have some sort of accent, right?

not only that, but he stated that he was six years old when he moved to america from japan, and he hasn’t moved since. i know, i know, yeah, cool he knows a lot of languages, and he’s a foreigner. yadda, yadda. get to the point.

he said that he was of asian descent, and that his parents were both japanese, and they lived in japan their whole lives. where the hell is he learning all of these extra languages at the young age of 21?

if japanese is his first language, we can cut out the time needed to become fluent in it. next, i’m ignoring english, as he would’ve had from the age of 6 to 21 to become fluent in it, but somehow he claimed he wasn’t? (let’s not mention the obvious fake misspellings and misunderstandings of simple words.) how on earth would he have become fluent in (at least) five other languages in middle school-high school?

OTHER LITTLE LIES N DETAILS

- he claimed that he was a 6’7, 21 year old (cis) male.

- said he was a stripper, bartender, and a sex worker (we’ll come back to that later).

- sent a picture of “his” chest, but it was 100% from google or some shit.

- (not judging anyone who does) he said that his body count was 74, but literally no one asked?

- he texted us when he “got another body” tf? we don’t care. carry on, i guess. (said he went on for like 7 rounds but... what?)

- talked about getting a vibrator stuck in his ass n his roommate had to get it out for him, but once again, nobody asked. °-°

- said he could bench 200 lbs. not impressive, just thought it was worth mentioning.

- said he had the same birthday as bakugou, which, okay.. (4/20)

- he made multiple channels in the server where he could roleplay with certain people, which, i, and a couple other people never used.

III. the voice chat.

after a while of all of us messing around, the conversation started to get heated, and some of us were teasing him, including me. we decided to get on voice chat (his idea), and he started talking into the mic. all of us were very confused, as he did not at all sound like a giant of a grown man.

but, despite this, we all warily continued, until he left the call. when he left, everyone who was participating voiced their current concerns, and laughed out our nervousness. that is, until he re-joined and everyone muted. he continued doing what he was doing until he “broke character”, stating he was a voice actor and it was hard to keep up that voice because it hurt his throat. i would’ve believed him if he didn’t sound the exact same as he did when he was “in character”.

after that, we were a lot more concerned and on edge about his identity, and i started to focus more on the shit he was telling us, hoping to find out who the fuck this person really was. i stopped interacting with him in a nsfw way, and mostly observed what he was saying, just watching from the sidelines.

II. the pictures.

captions:

not only do the skin colors just not match up, the hands in each picture are totally different people. even if you take into account the lighting differences, the undertones should still be the same. these pictures are fake.

if you look at the fingers, you can see that the ones on the right are flatter, and shorter. if the hand on the left were to hold that phone, it would wrap all the way around the device.

from a common sense standpoint, we know that our palms are always lighter than our skin tone. the fact that the hand on the left is still darker, proves that these are different people. (not that we needed proof.)

also, if this guy is so muscular, why can he only bench 200lbs? and why is his wrist so skinny?

+ to me, the phone, (right image) and the quality of the picture, looks like a black iphone 4s. from what i can see, at least. meaning, if i’m correct, that picture is majorly outdated.

for both pictures, he flipped the image so that we wouldn’t be able to find it by just by reverse image searching. luckily, one of the people involved was able to figure that out, and told me immediately.

III. ID check.

like i said before, a lot of us were starting to get really suspicious, but at this point, i thought i was the only one that was sketched out, so i issued another ID check.

(be sure to click on the pictures. one of them is really long. also, when reading, read the date and times that messages are sent. i was trying to lighten the mood and be nice, but it was honestly so offensive that he thought i was legitimately dumb.)

so, obviously, these ID’s are fake. not only are the pictures the exact same, but the backgrounds are the same, the outfits are the same, the names are totally fake, and just, wow. i don’t really know how he thought that was gonna slip past me.

after i called both him, and @/yourmajesty-theking out, he went into his own discord and started ranting to some of the other people involved that he was freaking out because he didn’t have his ID.

remember how i said that he mentioned he was a stripper/bartender/sex worker? why the fuck don’t you have your ID on you if you claimed you were at work that day? you can’t get in without it. °-° just- everything he was saying didn’t come together cleanly. the timeline is all sorts of fucked up.

you can’t drive without an ID, how are you getting to work? you can’t get into a strip club without an ID, how are you getting in? you can’t serve alcohol without and ID, how are you a bartender? you can’t get an apartment without an ID, how are you living with a roommate?

he told us that he moved to america with his PARENTS, and somehow his grandmother is in america now? when did that happen? if you’re gonna lie, at least make it believable.

IV. conclusion.

anyway, do what you want with this information. the people in the discord all agreed that based off his voice and the evidence, that he couldn’t have been older than 15, and at most, 16.

though he hasn’t deactivated his account, the last time he was active was april 7, 2021 at 12:39am (EST) he claims he lives in cali, so i don’t know what time that is there.

thanks for reading. i’m sure i missed a lot of stuff, but for now, this is all i could put together. also, lmk if there are any spelling errors. i’m too tired to check.

like i said, if i get any hate for calling out a minor, you will be blocked/reported, and i will not hesitate to turn anons off for the time being. besides, saying dumb shit doesn’t affect me. just makes me laugh.

- bum <3

#18+ (mdni)#🍓. bum’s purge ࿐

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nightswithkookmin · 4 years

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JIKOOK MMA 2020- COMMENTARY

Disclaimer: This is a commentary, not an expert analysis. I am not a ballerina. LTRS.

Let's all agree right here, right now, that if ever a moment deserve to be immortalized for all eternity, that it is this moment right here: the moment Jungkook lifts Jimin off the ground- it is the most super iconic IT moment of the year as far as shipping goes. Damn, was it beautiful. Goddamn!

Personally, I had so many flashbacks of unchartered fantasies, hopes and dreams- the least delusional of which is JK saying with a deep voice, after lifting JM off the ground, 'would you marry me please' and Jimin, shook out of his wits would respond in Satoori, 'we are already married, you idiot. Now put me down!' Lol.

What? A girl can dream... Leave me alone. Lol

A lot has been said of this dance and so I won't rumble on for long. I'm just gonna focus on the moments that stood out for me:

The first of which would be the build up to that performance- BigHit, you sneaky conglomerate bastard! Lol.

Y'all saw what they did there right? For weeks I have been bombarded with questions about the seemingly 'tensions' between Jikook- everyone was slipping me the 'something is up with Jikook' pill but chilee, I look at them and all I could see was Jikook up in their shenanigans. Lol

I think I mentioned this in a previous post? Anywho. I think the thing that most of us was experiencing with Jikook was the unnecessary 'limited' interactions between them in the recent content we had been getting post Jimin's birthday but regardless, there were still moments of them 'giving themselves away' like in the Grammy reaction video when Jimin instinctively turned to JK in his moment of excitement.

His hesitation was worrying though, because normally he wouldn't- they wouldn't, hesitate to hug the person that they want to hug in their moments of emotional outbursts unless something was hindering them.

Ergo, I felt, if he was hesitating, then clearly it meant there was something holding him back or stressing their dynamic- I think I've definitely talked about this right? Instinctual reactions and all that jazz?

It didn't feel like he was having problems with Kook though, honestly. Because, in spite of all these little inconsistent moments of 'tensions' between them, Jimin for the most part has been giving me the vibe he is falling in love all over again with Kook- Dont ask me why. Lol. This is just gonna be one of those statements I make in passing. Take note of it though, I'll talk about it again soon.

But from the little I've seen post Jimin's birthday, that's the vibe I'm getting. If you believe Jimin is in love with Kook and you have an idea of when he started falling in love with Kook in their love Journey, then I think you'd catch the signs too? If not, never mind. Lol.

Every now and then, I see him go through this phase- in my opinion. I can't wait to talk about it. And yes, it is what I meant when I said Jikook's dynamics seem to have flipped again lately. Time to turn on the crazy. Lol.

These minimum interactions between Jikook however, to me, felt more as if they were being 'monitored' or asked to 'tone things down' by the company or something rather than that they were having actual issues in their relationship- know what I mean?

For the love of me, I couldn't figure out why the company would ask them to tone things down... Until the blackswan performance.

I feel somehow that the lack of content and moments between Jikook in recent times, coupled with the seemingly faux tensions between them prior to their performance at the MMAs, without question, contributed to the wow factor of their performance. In my opinion- but stay with me.

BigHit ain't slick. Lol.

It's so on brand for them though, isn't it? Demand and supply and all that jazz. Chilee. Scarcity inflates the value of a product. I mean we've seen JK lift and carry Jimin in their dance performances several times now yet we can't deny this came as a shock and surprise for us all because we had zero idea what was 'going on between Jikook' behind the cameras- straight up Jedi mind trick. Lol.

Not to say the performance itself wasn't spectacular in of its own. I'd be mad damn liar and a fool if I peddled that nonsense anywhere. Lol.

I just want to point out how BigHit utilizes and taps Jikook's brand and magic in their business model, as this provides a stark contrast against BTS's marketing strategy for their self produced Album Be.

I tried explaining in my LGO analysis, how that project was a personal project of BTS' as a group and how as a group they had their own perception of brand and what sells- or who sells amongst them, as such they weren't going to and didn't star Jikook in that project as front and center.

Contrasting that project to this project, which is more of a BigHit piloted project rather than a personal project of the group's, you can see how Jikook's brand stands out and how it is being highlighted or even exploited for maximum return.

This is what I mean when I say Jikook is a brand. A powerful brand at that and that BigHit has a stake in their brand.

Jikook once again, overshadowed and dare I say, over powered BTS's own brand in that Blackswan performance- chileee, that performance was so Jikookcentric I forgot the others were even there. Lol.

I mean I saw NamJin jump in the foreground somewhere... I'm gonna get canceled am I not? Lmho.

VHope were powerful too. But I couldn't help but notice how neither of those individuals could have sold it the way JK did, had they been in his shoes. V and Hobi both have stamina and presence, yet for some reason I just can't picture either of them lifting Jimin up and spinning him the way JK did and does- not that they can't...

It's just, they take the spotlight too. Jimin is captivating when he dances- or does anything quiet frankly. And usually, he shines under the spotlight when there is undivided attention on him.

When he is paired with Hobi, V or even Suga, very often they act as distractions as they tend to compete with him for the viewer's attention and as such they don't necessarily compliment him. In my opinion.

Often too, when he is paired with RM or Jin, he tends to outshine them and make them look like rookies- Namjin... bless their hearts. Lol.

Kookie is the only member in the group that I feel compliments Jimin- well. Not that he isn't a great dancer too like Hobi or V, it's just whenever he is paired with Jimin in a performance he has the tendency to waive his spotlight and cede it to Jimin by letting go off his own shine and spotlight as well as his competitive spirit so Jimin can be highlighted.

It's why he is the perfect partner for Jimin and the perfect choice for this role in their duet. I think. He pulled it off guys. He PULLED IT OFF-chef's kiss JK. Chef's fucking kiss! Lol.

JK often talks about how he prefers to 'be behind the cameras,' how he often films the members but doesn't like being filmed or being in the spotlight and you see this in his GCFs where he takes the back bench and allows Jimin or even the others to dally in front of the camera.

I don't know if he is aware he does this in his dance too- because for the longest time critics often commented on his stage presence or lack of it there off- their words not mine...

Frankly, I never saw it that way. Because, paired with any other member, he squares up. Chilee. Lmho.

It's one thing to look great next to your partner, it's another to look great together next to eachother and Jikook looked great together in that moment- just exquisite and outstandingly beautiful.

The point of the black swan dance as RM had said in their blackswan Film reaction video, is not to highlight all seven but one- Jimin and that is exactly what JK did on that stage.

Jimin I felt wasn't as intense as he often is in his solo performances. He is brutal in the way he captures attention when he performs alone on a stage. His aura is demanding and alluring and if you can tear your eyes away from him when he is in the height of his performances then- share your magic formula you lucky bastard. Free us all from Jimin's hold. HELP! Lol.

But for some reason, in this performance, he wasn't lost in himself in the moment. It took me a while to understand what was happening-he was equally relinquishing his shine so Kook could share the spotlight with him- please, leave me here to die.

They each compete against the members when they perform with them on a stage, but they never seem to compete against eachother. They move in awareness of eachother and lift eachother up. They enhance eachother's presence and when they collide it's harmonious. This is what we mean when we say Jikook compliment eachother- nobody is doing it like them.

They were both powerful in their strides, graceful in their descent. They did it. They killed it.

Signed,

GOLDY

#Jikook #goldy analysis #goldy blogs #jikooktheories #jikook analysis #jikook scenarios

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