#media conversation

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

Sinner’s Demon Designs vs. Their Human Designs—

I’ll start off by saying I’m not trying to shame anyone or say these design choices are bad-it’s just something I’ve noticed about Helluva Boss’ character design choices that struck me as odd considering Hazbin Hotel’s character designs-specifically the designs of the “Sinners” or characters that were once human.

More than anything I just think it’s interesting, and am trying to examine the character designs from a world-building perspective.

So, since rewatching HB, I’ve realized that the Sinner Versions we see of Human characters are pretty close in design to their Human selves.

It’s very easy to tell these are the same characters. They’re all the same proportions with the same face shapes, and have similar silhouettes. (Critique continues below)

Now, this could change for Hazbin Hotel (and maybe there already are canon human designs for the HH sinners that I couldn’t find?) but in my opinion, most of the designs don’t translate well to what their human forms might have looked like. There’s of course exceptions to this, with the more humanoid demons, but with demons like Angel Dust, Husk, and Sir Pentious, I assume their human forms look almost nothing like their demon selves.

I think the main reason for this probably boils down to the Hazbin cast having established designs way before the series was created, but I feel this has created a problem where there are SOMETIMES rules for why Sinners look the way they do, and sometimes the designs seem completely random.

I’ve read that the way that sinners are designed is based partially on the way they die, and if that’s true, there doesn’t seem to be any rules or guidelines on WHEN to convey that—Mrs. Mayberry’s sinner form doesn’t particularly hint towards her death in any way in my opinion, but it’s VERY clear that the counselor died via drowning/water.

This wouldn’t be a huge issue on its own, but the creators have stated multiple times that Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel take place in the same universe. The rules for why characters are designed the way they are should be clear visually, but the designs of the Hazbin cast have always seemed random and confusing to me personally.

It looks like the majority of the Hazbin cast are designed after animals, but that’s not always clear either.

I didn’t realize that Angel was supposed to be a spider until I was explicitly told that was what he was, and I thought Alastor was an Owl based character due to his hair looking like a great horned owl’s feather tufts, and because his antlers were so small and dark that I didn’t notice them until I watched the pilot the first time. It’s possible the first drafts of these designs looked more like the animals they’re supposed to be based on, but if you don’t know all of the backstory or haven’t been following the creators, I’m not sure how you’re supposed to recognize these things.

Overall, I don’t think it’s a BAD thing to have a cast of characters that have very different designs, or don’t have very clear design rules for their universe. But in my opinion, having this big of a difference in the Sinner’s character designs when all of these characters are supposed to share the same universe really confuses things.

More than anything though I just found this sort of interesting. I’d be interested to hear more about the process of designing sinner characters, and to see what more sinners look like outside of the main cast that was initially designed several years ago.

Also please don’t send me hate—I like Helluva Boss, and I’ll probably like Hazbin Hotel. I just enjoy critiquing and examining the stuff I like and I’ve been on an HB kick since I rewatched the series recently and while watching this just occurred to me and I wanted to talk about it.

[god-of-a-thousand-demons]

The fact that there is no feasible way to rerelease the original ps2 version of persona 3 fes is exactly why media conversation is important. why in this modern day of age is EVERY single console ever created not extensively preserved and accessible. this is the worst timeline in many ways

[vurelly]

sometimes i do not want to consume a media and justify my liking it by making it known that im aware of it's faults and loving it despite, sometimes i just want to love things wholly and unapologetically because it made me feel something and even if it was a little fucked up it did nothing to reduce the amount of love i held for it

im aware it's not perfect, but let me love it like it is, if only because it makes me happy

[courtrecord]

honestly i hate how that “maybe the curtains are just blue” post has become shorthand for anti-intellectualism and shit bc as someone who has an utter passion for media analysis now, I WAS THAT PERSON IN HIGH SCHOOL ENGLISH CLASS.

english class never taught me how to analyze stories, it taught me how to remember what things the teacher said were “symbolism” and how to take quizzes where we had to match a quote to the character who said it. i didn’t give a shit about any of it, bc literally why should i. it was bullshit.

there’s this idea online that people are forgetting or rejecting what they learned in english class when they’re bad at media analysis, and maybe that’s a little bit true, but i think the much bigger problem is they never learned it in the first place. cinemasins & “maybe the curtains are just blue” aren’t convincing people to abandon an intellectualism they already had, they’re filling a void.

when all you learn in high school is to write on the test “blue = depression”, why is it surprising that so many people don’t give a shit about the curtains.

[annabelle--cane]

say it with me everybody: personal health is completely immaterial to morality, including mental health. leading a mentally unhealthy lifestyle (or what you perceive as a mentally unhealthy lifestyle) does not a bad person make. no one has to socialize, exercise, have healthy coping mechanisms, or lead (what you perceive as) a fulfilling life with fulfilling hobbies in the same way that no one has to go to the doctor to get a broken bone reset. both of those types of management of personal health are likely to be beneficial to the individual, but they are in no way moral requirements or debts owed to society. they do not actually say anything about a person's principles, personality, or actions towards others. additionally, people know themselves and their own situations better than you do. maybe a person judges that the physical and financial toll of going to the doctor outweigh the benefit of getting their bone reset, maybe a person just does not have the capacity to develop healthy coping mechanisms at this point in their life, and yes, maybe a person feels like they are totally fulfilled by "media based" hobbies alone and would feel no difference in their life if they picked up a loom. just like. let people be sick without accusing them of being representative of the lazy, degenerated state of modern society.

[hel7l7]

I don't understand anything that happened between us

[rovermcfly]

so I was today years old when I realised that to english-speaking people "kraken" exclusively refers to a mythological being.... meanwhile in my bilingual brain

[k-wame]

NEIL PATRICK HARRIS as Michael & PETER PORTE as Josh 2022 • UNCOUPLED • S1·EP5 

[caduceus-tealeaf]

They noted this on her chart: 8:38 A.M. After which, according to their records, Annie lapsed back into her impenetrable isolation and did not utter another word. The doctor on call noted this on her chart:

“May have been responding to auditory hallucination.”

[prokopetz]

Shout out to all the webcomics that have been updating like clockwork for the last twenty years and have an archive you can shoot through in an afternoon because "one page every six weeks" is still a regular update schedule.

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

Nuanced and Multifaceted Conflict vs. “Good v. Evil” in fiction

So. This is another thing I’ve wanted to talk about for a while. I promise I won’t always be focusing on Helluva Boss in my critiques, and I actually have quite a few other series I want to talk about.

There’s a big chance that I’ll be saying everything other people have already said, but I can’t help but WANT to talk about this specific character in regard to the story’s conflict. I think that it’s important to recognize when a character is written to be a complex person, and when a character is written to be an enemy to be defeated, and how not following through with your set-up can affect your story.

And HB does that A LOT in my opinion.

So. Let’s get into it. This time I’ll be talking about complex conflict between characters vs. black and white conflict, and I’ll also be touching on story set-ups and audience expectations.

I want to talk about a character who could have really made some of the internal character conflicts have so much more depth and intrigue. I want to talk about Stella Goetia

*as a side note this post is MUCH longer than I intended but I really wanted to get into a lot of the background and reasons for how Stella’s character development has actually completely changed what HB’d story conflict could have looked like. I’ll try and sum up everything in the end in a TLDR for y’all

So. Most of the reviews of her character I see talk about how she’s been “ruined” by the writing team revealing that she’s always been very abusive towards Stolas

I have to start off by saying I actually don’t think that Stella or her portrayal was “ruined” by the writing direction her character has been taken in.

In fact, this critique bothers me, because it doesn’t really get to what I think the actual root of why people are disappointed in Stella’s characterization, and the type of conflict that now exists between her and Stolas.

The main reason I believe people are unsatisfied with Stella is because they believed that her character was being set up for a complex and nuanced conflict between her and Stolas, and then that turned out not to be the case.

A quick disclaimer- I do think it’s possible to subvert audience expectations about story and characters in a satisfying way. But it has to be done in a way that respects the audiences intelligence and willingness to think about the story.

If your plot-twist, unreliable narrator, subversion, or what-have-you is done well, the audience should be able to either figure out what’s going based on the little information you’ve given them, and if they don’t, the change or subversion should still make sense and CLICK in hindsight.

Otherwise, your subversion will end up feeling cheap or confusing. Or worse, like a lie.

And this is one of the MAIN issues I think people have with Stella.

As the audience, we were NOT given enough information on her or her character before it’s revealed that she’s just “evil” and always has been, apparently since she was a literal child.

Again, I don’t think it’s an inherently bad decision to have a flat or pure evil villain. I’m fine with Stella being one, even if it’s less interesting to me personally.

But it’s definitely very different from what was initially implied and set-up, and the audience can pick up on that.

Before S2E1 “The Circus” we see Stella a total of 3 times in person, with one time being a flashback.

I’m going to go over those times to analyze if anything set-up in Stella’s appearances points towards her being. Well, totally and irredeemably awful and abusive I guess.

The very first time we see Stella is in the same bed with Stolas—Octavia calls for her parents, both Stolas AND Stella. Stella grumbles and refuses to get up and tells Stolas to go. This doesn’t immediately strike me as a sign of her being a terrible person. That exact scenario is present in a lot of family comedies, kids’ movies, and sitcoms.

Nothing about this screams that Stella is a terrible parent or an abusive partner to me. It just tells me she’s tired and doesn’t want to get up, which again, is not uncommon.

The next time we see her, she’s yelling at Stolas, and she throws a servant at him in anger.

Now, there’s no excuse for this, her behavior here is not okay, regardless of her feelings. But we understand why she’s acting the way she is--she’s furious with Stolas for cheating on her. At this point with the information we have, it’s also very reasonable to believe her feelings have been hurt.

Later Octavia talks about how her parents didn’t used to hate each other, and the way Stolas’ tries to explain their failing marriage to her comes across like his relationship with Stella is one that’s always had difficulties that they have tried and failed to overcome.

None of this information is enough to really convey or hint that Stella is and has always been abusive or evil. It shows that Stella and Stolas have a very rough relationship, and that Stella most likely has anger management difficulties, but you have to do lot of extra work to come to the conclusion that Stella is completely at fault here.

The next time we see her though, things have clearly escalated, because it’s revealed that she’s one that hired Striker to assassinate Stolas.

Now. Usually. Yeah. That would be a HUGE red flag. And I mean. It still obviously is.

But, and I never thought I’d use this uno reverse card, this is one of the few times where the explanation of “But it’s hell, what did you expect???” actually makes sense to me.

Because yeah, it is hell. It’s the end of episode 5 when we learn this, and our protagonists have killed and assassinated multiple people. Taking a hit out on people really doesn’t seem to be that uncommon of a thing in hell.

Even the next scene after the reveal that Stella is the one who hired Striker makes light of how serious this is, by showing that Stella was basically yelling her assassination plot right to Stolas’ face.

This is played for laughs! I genuinely am not sure if the writers intended for this to be foreshadowing of Stella’s abuse or not because if so, they turned her attempting to kill her husband into a joke!

If you cannot keep your themes or tone consistent, how is the audience supposed to follow your story?

There is subtle storytelling, and then there’s tacking information and character points later on in your writing. And this can have two causes.

Either your audience has to do the work of story-telling for you and make up their own reasons for what’s happening to make the story coherent OR they will be disappointed and dissatisfied by the final product.

I think that’s the main reason why S2E1 of Helluva Boss felt so jarring story-wise, and why Stella, to me at least, suddenly felt like a brand new character.

Like I haven’t been this confused by a character being suddenly evil since Hans from Frozen.

(like seriously why the hell did they put this scene in if not to just trick the audience. This isn’t giving us any plot info it’s only giving us contradictory info on his character. Like I talked about before, Hans’ heel-face-turn doesn’t feel like a twist. It feels like a lie.)

Okay so, how does any of this actually affect anything? Who cares if Stella is evil, that doesn’t automatically make the story bad!

Well. Yeah, of course not. Ironically, having the main conflict your story being a battle between “Good v. Bad” characters is neither good nor bad. It’s just a story decision. And ultimately at the end of the day, the writers of Helluva Boss can choose to tell their story however they’d like.

But, depending on how this is executed, good v evil stories can be a lot less interesting than morally grey or complicated conflicts and characters.

I am more interested in the version of the story where Stella and Stolas are imperfect and messy people. I am more interested in the story where Stolas has an affair to escape being in an arranged marriage, and Stella overreacts by arranging a hit on her husband (unless calling out a hit is normal in hell, but we can’t know b/c there is no baseline for what is considered normal in hell)

I am so much more interested in the story where Stolas and Stella are both depicted as being in the wrong, as being incredibly hurt by each other’s actions, and as not knowing how to repair their broken relationship for the sake of their daughter.

That story feels very real to me. It’s one I want to engage and invest in.

I want to see if these characters can grow to accept their mistakes and learn and change for the sake of Octavia and having to co-exist with each other, or if they’ll slip back into mutual destruction and toxicity.

But that’s not the story we’ll get to see, because it seems like the writers are more interested in keeping Stolas from having to grow as a character. And because of that, Stella has been turned into an evil obstacle that must be defeated, instead of a nuanced and real person.

I also feel like I have to say. I know I would be MUCH less frustrated by this if I hadn’t seen an HB crew member talking about how their show is similar to Bojack Horseman.

Because. It’s just not. I’m sorry, I’m not saying that to be mean, or condescending, or rude, but the way characters are written in Helluva Boss is almost completely black and white at this point.

Regardless of the writer’s intent, the vast majority of the choices they have made in Season 2 come off as explanations to excuse the protagonist’s mistakes, and give them a “get out of being potentially in the wrong” free card.

Compared to the writing decisions in Bojack, which almost always has characters confront their wrongdoings, for better or worse, HB honestly feels like it’s the Anti-Bojack.

It would take a TON of character development and time to make HB’s characters as interesting, fleshed-out, and as real as Bojack’s are, and at this point that’s I don’t think it will ever happen.

Again. Having black and white conflict is FINE. It is a choice in story telling that can be done very effectively. But if you are making a black and white story where one side is always terrible and evil, and one side can do no wrong, you can’t act like you’ve written something that is deeper and more emotionally complex and grey than that.

And the first time the writers gave Stella more than 3 sentences to string together, they made it very clear that any chance of her being a more complex and engaging character was being tossed out the window.

————

TLDR:

The main reason people are upset about Stella being shown as abusive in S2E1 of HB is probably because the initial depictions of her didn’t give us enough information on her character to tell that she was just evil/a terrible person.

The way the story was written in S1 to set up the possibility of a very interesting and complex conflict between Stella and Stolas, and when it was revealed that she’s just. The worst. There were people that were disappointed by this, because they expected more.

Audiences actually aren’t idiots, and when you subtly foreshadow something and then completely change things, that can be frustrating.

It’s MORE than okay to write a straightforward good v evil story, but it depending on the way it’s written and executed, it may not be as interesting to mature audiences as a more morally grey story would be.

If you can’t write characters confronting their flaws and being in the wrong, please don’t compare your writing to Bojack, I mean. C’mon.

[howlinchickhowl]

What is a moment in Shameless that makes you crack up every single time you even think about it, even if it's not really a big joke moment? I'll start.

When JimmySteve shows back up for the third? time and they're on the street outside of Patsy's having an argument and then Fiona answers the phone and it's Mickey and JimmySteve gets so excited? 'Mickey Milkovich?! Tell him i said hi!' like on the one hand what the fuck JimmySteve? read the room you piece of shit. But on the other hand it is so unexpected and the delivery is so pure, it gets me every time.

Ok now you go.

[todaysanother]

when you follow someone who's in the same fandoms as you, and you like them as person, but they don't follow you back

[robertdowneyjjr]

a soulmates au where your words only show up after you’ve met your soulmate. sort of like an insurance policy, you know, so you’re not left wondering whether every other person you meet is the one if your words are too generic.

in this universe, captain america has been recovered and active for several years now. he runs missions and saves the world with his ragtag team of superheroes formed by SHIELD. steve's become a celebrity, which he doesn't love, but it's something he learns to live with because that's life for public figures in the 21st century.

tony never became iron man because he walked away from his father's legacy the second he turned 18. he and howard are still working on their relationship, but maria couldn't be prouder and tells tony so everyday. he built his own company from the ground up and it's thriving under his leadership. he's only marginally famous these days and he tries his best to stay out of the limelight, guarding his private life as much as possible. that's how it's been for twenty years and he's happy.

they meet on a day when steve is tired, irritable and angry. he's just returned from a mission where two of his teammates were injured because of the faulty information they received. he goes out on a walk to let off some steam and he's just slipping his phone back into his pocket after rejecting fury's fifth call for a debrief when he slams right into tony.

tony was having a good day. he'd just sent out a new set of designs and decided to reward himself for it. he goes and gets himself a fresh, delicious, life-affirming cup of coffee and is just stepping out of the cafe with aforementioned cup when a walking brick wall comes out of nowhere.

good news is, tony had ordered a cold brew. once every few weeks that's just what he's in the mood for and it had been one of those days. bad news is, instead of drinking it he is now wearing it.

sticky and cold and more than a little shocked, tony barely has time to recover and figure out what happened when steve starts tearing into him.

“god damn it, watch where the fuck you’re going! that could have spilled all over me! idiot!” steve yells at tony. and on a normal day, he’d be apologetic and he’d never curse like this at a stranger. but he really didn’t need yet another thing to go wrong today and he’s on a short fuse.

maybe later, when he’s calmed down, he’ll think back on the cute man with the giant brown eyes staring at him in disbelief and start beating himself up over how he behaved.

at the moment, all tony can do is look at steve’s pristine white t-shirt that somehow has not a single drop of coffee on it, then look back down at his own chest. he has no words except, “wow. you’re a fucking asshole.” and he just turns around and walks away.

tony gets home and strips off for a rinse before he gets ready for his flight to london for a week of meetings. all the while he can’t help but think that angry blond man looked vaguely familiar and he can’t place where he knows him from. he doesn’t notice the new string of words tattooed down the side of his thigh until he’s in his hotel room half a day later.

meanwhile, steve gets home after his walk, after he’s checked on his teammates, after sitting with fury for three long hours to debrief, and finally washes the day off of him. before he gets into the shower, he notices something different about his reflection.

along his left bicep are the words, wow. you’re a fucking asshole.

he thinks back on the cute man with the big brown eyes and a chest full of coffee and wonders how in the hell he can fix this mess.

[harrywavycurly]

I need in the it was just one night series a conversation between Eddie and the reader while she is sewing up his jacket and him masking dinner.

Hiii babes!! I will gladly give this to you, I hope you enjoy it😂💖

-this goes along with this part right here✨

*Eddie doesn’t mind cooking for you since you’re sewing a few patches onto his jacket*

“How many chicken bullshits do you want with your cheese noodles?” “Cheese noodles?” “Yeah…your macaroni and cheese…cheese noodles…” “don’t call it that you fucking weirdo and uhm…six nuggets please.” “Did you just say please? Are you feeling okay?” “Don’t make me stab you with this sewing needle…it may be small but I can make sure it’ll hurt.” “There she is the girl with the oh so sweet personality and charm…so…uhm…how is Dorothy doing? Kicking you like crazy still?” “Yes it’s like she’s having a damn dance party in there…where did you want this patch to go?” “Oh uh anywhere you think it’ll…look good?” “If I get you a patch will you wear it on here?” “Uhm…yeah…sure but I mean…depends on what it is tho…” “why does it matter what is it? It’s a gift you jackass…and besides I’ll be the one sewing it on anyway.” “Then why did you ask if I’d wear it if you weren’t going to give me a choice?” “Because I thought you’d just say yes…please tell me you’re not making broccoli…” “oh shit…I forgot you said-” “I’m gonna be sick if you don’t get that shit out of my house right now.” “Yeah yeah shit…okay I’ll uh to toss it in…the dumpster just don’t…vomit on the carpet okay?” “Fuck off.”

[fayrobertsuk]

Okay listen, because nothing was ever going to prepare me for this, but when I first came out*, I had no idea what a profound effect that was going to have on other people.

I thought I was braced for the bad stuff, how some people’s fear about what your simple existence means can dampen, darken, and corrode your joy, your sense of safety. I wasn’t prepared for the scale of that, but that’s not what this post is about.

I had no fucking clue that my existence as a queer person taking up space could mean so much joy and relief for others. And I was utterly unprepared for how that has only increased as I’ve aged, and as the world has become more connected. Eventually, a young trans man explained it to me, saying that seeing me just... living, 30 years older than him, brought him hope, a model for the future, that there was a future, for the first time. Several others chimed in to say the same and I felt airless for a dizzying second. I hadn’t been able to really understand, until that point, why various younger queer folk would thank me on Twitter, call me and others like me icons. We’d shrug: We’re just... being, we’d say. Exactly, they’d reply.

I thought that things were easier for young, queer folk now. That they have more access to information and vocabulary and acceptance than we did, growing up. Hell, I might never have worked out my gender stuff if younger folk weren’t out there being loud about their pronouns, breaking down microlabels, and sharing their feelings about their existence.

And that’s also true, but being visibly queer, and over 30, and it not being a tragedy? That gives people enormous hope. That’s a landmark to reach, a future to picture yourself in. My life is nowhere near perfect, but it exists.

And heavens, it’s good to know that these proliferating silver hairs and wrinkles are beautiful signs for those who long for the decades’ stretch between now and then.

_____

(*still not quite realising that it’s something you do again and again, and sometimes additionally, if - like me - you find yourself going “oh, and this thing too”)