#syscourse conversation

[syscurse]

Parts language isn't for everyone. That's fine.

But the framework behind parts language is something I think all systems and plural people can relate to.

Seeing your system as one whole comprised of parts tells you that you are not alone. You aren't broken...you belong. Everyone in your system is an equally important, necessary, and real part of it. Everyone. Even the alters you don't get along with, the ones that you're ashamed of, the ones that hurt you or others, etc.

Some people see "parts of a whole" and feel like that dehumanizes them or diminishes their personhood. And that's okay. You're allowed to feel that way. We all have terms that we dislike. You have every right to set boundaries about what terms you do/don't want to be used towards you.

BUT! That's not how it is for everyone. Being seen as a part of something is not universally negative or dehumanizing.

For me, and many others I know, parts language does the exact opposite. It makes us feel more real and deeply connected to our systems. It was so profoundly important for me to discover parts language. Parts language is what helped me finally start to understand and accept that my system was real.

I also used to have some parts who didn't feel like "separate people." They felt more like facets of myself, like being in a different mode. Parts language made them feel safe and understood. Seeing discourse over parts language made them feel ashamed, like they would never be accepted by the online community.

Some people think that calling system members "parts" is the opposite of calling them "people," but my system has never felt that way. In therapy, I often switch between these two ways of speaking about my experiences. They're not mutually exclusive for everyone.

Anyways, I just wanted to share a few thoughts on this. I hope that you all have a lovely day. Drink water, take your meds, use the words that make you happiest, and take care!

[circular-bircular]

Time for a syscourse syscussion-

What benefits has your system had for you? This includes all aspects of systemhood, so not limited to simply the concept of plurality. I particularly want to hear from traumatized systems, but nontraumatized systems can also speak up.

I think there should be more discussion of the positives regarding systems, alongside all the negatives. Often, I felt in pro-endo spaces, that I could only be positive about the plural aspect of my systemhood, as if the traumatic aspects of my life were solely negative. I’ve also felt frequently like this in anti-endo spaces, like enjoying my systemhood was “enjoying” my abuse. Yikes!

I’m curious the responses.

[sysmedsaresexist]

The idea that emotional abuse and neglect have to be purposeful, with intent and malice, in order to be "enough" is wrong, and is not supported by science

I can't believe I have to say this.

Well meaning, well intentioned parents can and do neglect and abuse their children without EVER realizing it.

A parent can love their child and want the absolute best for them, and still fuck their children up in horrible ways that will stay with them for life.

When it comes to trauma and DID, this isn't an area where you can play Olympics. Anyone who can look at another person and go, "that wasn't enough, you have to have more trauma," is in the wrong.

You are flat out wrong.

Your behaviour is wrong.

Your facts are wrong.

Your understanding of trauma, CDDs, and DA is wrong.

Your actions and words are wrong.

Look at generational trauma, homophobic and transphobic parents that just "want their children to succeed" while stamping out any and all "weirdness", parents with their own mental illness that prevents them from responding appropriately their children or causes outbursts, parents with outdated strategies that they thought worked on them, parents that mishandle their child's outbursts with speed rather than understanding in mind, abusers that are young and don't understand what they're doing, single parents that work two jobs and now their kid has to take care of themselves and their siblings, nuclear families with low income, body shaming parents that just want to protect you from other's cruelty, the list goes on and on.

You've probably experienced more than one of these.

And probably for a long time, right? Maybe your entire childhood?

Huh, it's almost like that's repetitive, longterm trauma.

Do NOT let anyone invalidate your trauma.

It was bad enough.

More reading.

And more.

[oopsallsyscourse]

I'm not joking when I say the anti endos on this site used to be so much better than they are now

[syscourse-shmiscourse]

Alright this is the ONLY thing I'm going to say about the BAH drama that is apparently STILL going on. It all boils down to this:

YOU are responsible to curate YOUR own internet experiences. It is ONLY your responsibility and NO ONE ELSE'S.

It is no one's job but yours to make sure that your internet experience is as safe as it can be for you. No one else. We are not your parents. We are not your therapist or doctor. It's not our problem, frankly. Persecutors will find a way to harm the system regardless of what's out there and what you come across. Trust me, we've been there.

Additionally, complaining that tumblr isn't a safe space is completely laughable. It's the piss on the poor site. There are porn bots and pity scams galore. This place was NEVER safe. It is YOUR job to curate your experience and block blogs that may harm you. It is ALSO your responsibility to understand that you WILL be triggered at one point or another and it is ALSO your responsibility to put plans in place to make sure you can cope and recover to the best of your ability.

Stop pushing the idea that we are all responsible for everyone else's mental health and trauma recovery. We're not. We're all here struggling to survive and healing from our horrors. Stop putting YOUR horrors on the rest of us, we're dealing with our own.

[schizodelicpunk]

Anti endos claiming that they aren't abelist while fakeclaiming nontraumagenic systems that come from other disorders

Hi hello, we're a schizophrenic system, plurality has always been a symptom of my schizotypy, since I was as young as 11 I have been going through the cycle of experience plurality for a while -> freak out that I'm weird and crazy -> suppress it until it goes away for a while -> pretend it never happened -> experience plurality again within a year

It has gone away many times but it always came back and I'm currently at the beginning of breaking that cycle, this time I'm not letting ableists tell me what's going on in my brain.

It's not even sysmedicalism at this point because me and my system FIT into a medical model, the only difference is that our personality states are separated by psychotic symptoms instead of dissociative ones but I guarantee we're still gonna get hate for this

I'm literally in therapy for my psychosis and I am openly plural. CDDs aren't even on the table for potential diagnoses. My therapist is actively supporting me in recovering my plurality because he believes that it is a benign symptom

I personally know another schizogenic system, he doesn't use that terminology because he's like. In his late 40s and doesn't use the Internet much, but he was telling me one day about how one of the things his schizoaffective causes is extra people in his head and how sometimes they do things and he has to work together with them. And I had this awesome moment with him where I was like "wait. Really? I have that too!" I'd never met another system irl and the first one I met was a forty-something endo old head on the downtown streets. Because people in the real world don't give a shit about your online discourse. M and his headmates don't know or care that anti endos exist, he's busy hustling, he has bigger problems than some teenage DID sys who's inevitably going to come in my askbox and say I made him up. And you know what. So do I. Come into my askbox. It'll give me something to laugh at with my hot schizo gf while we try to get this housing shit sorted.

[ellipse-society]

It is important to see the nuance that exists in everything. Things are rarely black and white and seeing them as such can be the cause of conflict. People don't fit perfectly into boxes(and trying to put them in them is stereotyping). Just because someone labels themselves in a specific way doesn't mean you know everything about them. There isn't just good and bad, wrong and right in this world. There are places where things fit better in shades of grey and when they are existing in the grey area it can be harmful to try to label it within a black and white framework.

[carpbait]

Really hope you educate yourself better about Endo systems and grow up a little. Doesn't hurt anyone and it hurts people more to insist the strict and often ableist outlines set out by the dsm are the word of God.

Ive been genuinely considering a proper response to this ask—and i still feel unsure about posting this now. Normally? id delete and move on bc i find it a ridiculous waste of time to spend my life answering and hmming over every snippy or mean ask i get. But, I do feel the need to explain my stance a little, I do and very very greatly acknowledge the flaws in the DSM-V, trust me i am very very aware as a huge huge psych nerd and as someone with mental illness’ myself, if that thing was perfect things would be a lot different, hell I even don’t fully agree with the DSM’s diagnostic criteria for Dissociative disorders, especially with the acknowledgement of P-DID. The day I worship the DSM-V or a majority of leading figures in the field will probably be a cold day in hell.

I however, personally and firmly believe that everyone should and must — to an extent, curate a space that they feel comfortable within and with those around them, lest we all go insane. Simply put, endos do not fit this space for me. While I can understand that this may not be an always intended effect, I find it genuinely frustrating and upsetting when endos push into spaces simply not curated or meant for them, and a result more often then not systems who have experienced trauma feel extremely trivialized and uncomfortable — because as far as I’ve seen and as I understand to be Endogenic is to be without the trauma needed to be a system, of course it’d be a shame and wrong to lump one group together because of a handful of people but like I said, I’m simply just not comfortable with the group as whole. I have several other friends who have been harassed and threatened for simply trying to make a space for themselves and for others to feel comfortable in, with others who relate to them. I do not move to invalidate or criticize trauma people have gone through and what that means for them, I can only ask that endos do the same and make spaces for themselves and further take care of themselves within it, but sending hateful messages to those who don’t agree with you—because I have received several nasty things the last few months—is not fair to anyone and does nothing to help persuade or move your point across, its just rude.

To me, and several others I have spoken with—it is nothing short of harmful to see people treat a very real and awful disorder like it’s a fun game (re. system “hopping”, “build a headmate”-blogs, and so forth.) I do not find it fun or enjoyable trying to connect with others who understand how it feels to lose hours and days to amnesia that you are entirely helpless to, who understand the PTSD like symptoms, the brain fog, so on, just to have someone join in and talk about how they traded hosts with another system or whatever. Does this mean other DID/OSDD/P-DID systems can’t have good days or relationships within their system? of course not. I just don’t think it’s entirely fair to ask systems to feel 100% comfortable and okay sharing a space like that with endos. And in my opinion, it IS kind of harmful when singlets—especially those in leading pysch fields and those offering diagnostic treatment/etc see endos and traumagenic systems and decide that all of us are fake as hell and actual treatment and care becomes out of reach for the majority of us who don’t fit what’s consider the norm or exact diagnostic material (think of how afab autistic folk are diagnosed either significantly later in life or not at all for simply not fitting criteria the same that amab autistic people do), can you reasonably attribute this a problem with the field as a whole and less endos? yeah I can get behind that, but my point still stands.

I stand for all my disabled and mentally ill friends, I don’t want that to come into question not once, especially those who don’t “fit” the norm of how we should be, gods knows i dont fit that norm by a mile. I can be however, uncomfortable around people making light of a disorder that shouldnt be made light of. It’s important to me to then, reiterate again, that it’s not impossible for a system to experience joy or happiness within their system, but you have to acknowledge both sides. and making it out to always be happy silly fun times is wrong, and harmful.

But, at the end of the day, I may not like it or whatever but I cant stop you, of course. All I can ask is that you respectfully don’t interact with me, and to further my point I am a system, and I do understand the struggle. Seeing people put down others for not being able to afford/access proper care and self dxing is frustrating and constantly scrutinizing myself and how i experience things is tiring and beyond exhausting. yet, I still feel I am allowed to ask for this. I do acknowledge the ever-changing state of the field of psych and that new information and new things get added or changed nothing is stagnate and thats honestly a good thing! and I am more than happy to discuss with folk about things, especially if its an offer with a different perspective. I strive to hold myself to a standard that includes growing and changing with my opinions and beliefs, so you are more than welcome to bring a calm healthy discussion to my dms on my main but this blog isn’t the place for it, and for the time being my DNI will not change either. I apologize if that is disheartening but I will simply ask you to block me by that point.

[starstruck-sillies]

On the topic of BIID;

Yes, BIID and how it can influence systems and plurals alike is important to talk about, as well as atypical dysphoria of all kinds. And I do think the idea of people trying to make headmates to ease this dysphoria should be talked about. But it's also pretty damn obvious that atypical dysphoria isn't the main reason people try it, and also can we maybe not throw atypical dysphoria/BIID under the bus to disprove created plurals?? That's just odd and helps no one.

-Milkyway and Xero

[sysmedsaresexist]

NEWS FLASH ⚡️

Six-year follow-up of the treatment of patients with dissociative disorders study

In the attached study, 12.8% of patients reached final fusion, and 12.8% of patients were considered resolved with functional multiplicity.

61.7% did not complete therapy.

A portion of these patients are dead or missing. A moment of silence for those lost. Never forget the suicide rates in our community.

This article is from 2017, and the ISSTD guidelines are from 2011. Both say that functional multiplicity is a valid treatment option.

The authors of the 3 phase treatment talk about how it's okay to stop at functional multiplicity.

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Treatment goals are personal, some of you need to mind your own goddamn business

Further reading:

Critiquing the Requirement of Oneness - Kymbra Clayton

CDS UK Treatment

A survey of practices and recommended treatment interventions among expert therapists treating patients with dissociative identity disorder and dissociative disorder not otherwise specified.

There exists no published, empirical data demonstrating that direct intervention with self states worsens DID, although there is clinical literature that describes negative outcomes of inappropriate interventions with self states (Kluft, 1989a).

Whether or not unification takes place or the extent to which it endures, most severely dissociative patients, even those in the lowest functioning group, can improve during specialized focuses on dissociation.

[X]

CTAD Clinic, a multi part series on integration, fusion, and personal choices

[system-of-a-feather]

To white people out there, if there is a POC open and willing to call out racist and problematic behavior, the best thing to do to be an anti-racist ally is to support the POC trying to speak and limit the amount of which you add your two cents.

While the intent is good and appreciated and actually helpful when there isn't a POC around to speak for themselves, white people talking about the complex issues that POC bring up in mixed spaces will always make space for misunderstanding, removing nuance, and distorting the message POC are trying to say.

Always remember, as much as you care and try to learn about the issues POC have, you will not know the topic more in depth, more personally, and more intensely than someone with lived experience.

This also applies to POC that disagree with what most POC say.

If a POC disagrees with what you've heard other POC saying, it is not your place to tell them that they are wrong - you don't have the life experience to understand the topic enough to argue at other POC. Leave POC discourse with POC to other people who have the lived experience.

Know your place and stay in your lane, else you run a huge risk of being a white knight and speaking over POC and derailing the Point of any complaints that POC are trying to get heard.

[sophieinwonderland]

The average Trump voter:

/watch?v=-fC2oke5MFg

LOL! Amazing sketch! 😁

Probably not quite though! I think most Trump voters will become self-righteous and yell at you angrily that a kilogram of steel is heavier, probably calling you names along the way. This guy is just confused.

[ratinacoat]

I took a mini break from focusing on syscourse to debate with flat earthers not too long ago, somehow I had more productive conversations

[syscourse-shmiscourse]

I’d argue that all plurality is so under researched and underrepresented in psychology, that bringing ANY science into the “are endos real” discourse is about as useful as arguing about what some niche dinosaur may have looked like. Does bringing science in help? Yes, of course it does! It always will! But acting like science is going to be some instant and immediate “See, here’s proof!��� is ridiculous (plus there’s the fact that saying “this scientific article proves-” about anything is extremely anti-science as no article or study can “prove” anything but I don’t think anyone’s ready for that conversation yet) because at the end of the day, 90% of the argument isn’t about science. It’s about morality and the human nature of “If I do not understand something, I am scared of it or perceive it as a threat”.

Anon I 2000% agree with you (and sorry for taking a couple days to respond)! We actually typed up this post specifically because of this issue in system spaces. It's something people don't like to keep in mind because in areas of discourse, we've found it's mostly that people want objective experiences (things we can measure and identify with absolute certainty) as opposed to subjective experiences (personal experiences that may or may not be quantifiable in science). Which honestly blows my mind because while things we can measure and count are 100% important, the subjective experience is so fascinating and I wish that syscoursers kept that in mind with good faith.

Have a wonderful day <3

[thefluxsystem]

I made a whole formal post over on our side blog but it seems to be banned from showing in tags, so I’m just gonna post the Venn diagram again.

Shooting from the hip, similarities & differences between CDD & non-CDD systems?

[Please be respectful with replies.]

[ellipse-society]

your post about speakeasy is extremely vague. what, exactly, did they do? im considering joining the server but im worried now.

Basically overall they can't see themselves as anything other than the victim, don't respect others boundaries, jump to conclusions that they can't accept can be wrong and turn everything you do that seems to be against them into the person being ableist against them.

The specific scenario I was vagueing went like this. So I have multiple blogs all of which have a please be respectful if you interact or I will block boundary on them and one significantly more than others. And we were in a private discord together at the time with them and a few friends(they can add to this if they'd like with their stories but not obligated) and they knew the blog was ours and what we wanted on the blog.

They decided in the comments on this blog to go after someone for stating facts(not opinions facts) for being ableist for daring to bring up reality. They were simultaneously going off in the server about this person being ableist. The person survivor-speakeasy was yelling at repeatedly stated they had just commented to correct someone's facts on the situation and clarified they had never stated their opinion and tried to deescalate the situation. I would have blocked survivor-speakeasy long before this had I not thought they were our friend.

The continued to escalate things in the server threatening to fight this other person and I was extremely triggered not knowing how to handle it and said something to the effect of, "if you are planning on following through with that could you please not do that on our blog. Reminder it's for civil conversations only." Immediately I became the bad guy. They started yelling at me in the server about how I was being ableist against their personality disorders by assuming their threat was genuine. I repeated stated I didn't know if it was or wasn't, I would have handled it the same with any other person in the server and wasn't attempting to harm them with anything I said. And repeatedly apologized for it. I ended up in a ball on my bed crying because of how vulnerable they made me feel and how little I could do to make it stop. I was out of control because they had already made the decision they were the victim in this situation and everyone was attacking them and nothing could change their mind.

I later brought it up with my therapist who immediately encouraged me to think about stoping being friends with them if they were triggering me to fawn so hard like this. And in discussion with other members of the server after survivor-speakeasy left more than one of us had been advised the same way by our therapists.

So yeah thats the summary. Unfortunately the server and the tumblr account they had at the time have been deleted so I can't get screenshots or anything to prove it but that is my experience with them. Not to say they haven't changed any but they assumed we were ableist and repeated the actions publicly again recently so just a warning that this behavior may begin again.