#pro syscourse conversation

[sysmedsaresexist]

Not so gentle reminder

Myths and Facts

- fictives, introjects, comfort characters, NPCs are signs of faking - these are all normal, recognized things in DID. These alters can come on suddenly or gradually. See the next point.

- alters only form during times of high stress or (re-)traumatization, they don't appear out of nowhere - while there is some truth to this, it's not that simple and is certainly not a form of faking. Alters can take years to show up after an event, and they might not know why they formed. It can be very hard to pinpoint an alter's reason/time frame for creation, leading many to misinterpret an alters origin. It's also common for some systems to split fragments very easily, and for reasons that can be boiled down to minor inconveniences. These fragments can and do take identity from media.

- people use systemhood to avoid accountability - while there are people who do this, please be cognizant that the point of DID is dissociation-- the disownment of one's actions, emotions, and memories. There is a good chance that the person you're accusing of faking is actually in an extremely bad situation mentally and is doing the exact thing people with DID do. System accountability is a learned behaviour that comes with healing and system communication. For some, it comes easy, for others, it's a sign of being in a bad mental state and trained reactions to confrontation. Please note: it's not your job to help them. Say your piece and move on, you're not going to fix anything there.

- only the worst of the worst forms of abuse can cause DID - repeated and longterm emotional neglect is the leading cause of DID, and is theorized to be more damaging than physical and sexual abuse combined.

Relevant articles because I'm lazy

Remember to be kind to others. We're all struggling in our own ways.

[circular-bircular]

I am so tired of minors in syscourse spaces, I'm not going to lie.

If you are a minor and you are syscoursing, please focus on just surviving. Please. This is absolutely a traumatizing space. If your method of survival is harassing people on the internet, find a new goddamn hobby. I promise you, gardening is far more enjoyable and actually results in pretty results. I hear knitting is fun. I play video games and write.

If you exist as yourself online and that pisses someone off, and they start doing shit, please simply block and move on. They literally cannot do anything to you. If you want, try to find a way to report them if the behavior is reportable.

And if you are a grown adult getting mixed up with this shit, please be kind. There are minors who will be in these spaces, regardless of what is actually best for their health and wellbeing, and regardless, people should be nice to each other. Genuinely do not know how so many of you forget that.

[circulars-reasoning]

does pro syscourse conversation mean everyone should start talking about syscourse and it’s bad to not like it?

I'm.... not sure why you're asking me? I'm pro-endo as a label. Though, I do like the idea of being pro-syscourse conversation -- I think I'll amend that label to my own pinned post. @sysmedsaresexist I'm stealing that one from you, jsyk.

But yes, obviously, being pro-syscourse conversation absolutely 100% means that we believe everyone needs to talk about syscourse because it's just that important, and if you don't like it, you don't belong and should be completely shunned and ostracized.

.... Is that evil enough for you? Should I add some fakeclaiming or something?

Sarcasm aside, obviously that would be a ridiculous label to self identify with. I don't think anyone in syscourse thinks that others have to participate, or that it's somehow wrong to dislike it. Which is why I answered this sarcastically -- it screams bad faith.

If this was a good faith question, here's the good faith answer: It literally just means that we support syscourse discussions that are beneficial and, you know... actually conversations. This includes across "syscourse lines." Too many syscoursers just block every single person who disagrees with them, rather than engaging in a conversation. Block for your health -- not for your circle jerk.

Nobody needs to like syscourse. But, by that same hand, they shouldn't bash those who enjoy these sorts of debates, and we should support those who are trying to have actual intellectual conversations.

[hiiragi7]

I want to talk about the assumption of sources and introjects in plural spaces, and new alter help channels. I've been meaning to write on this for a while but a recent post in the syscourse tag talking about a similar topic reminded me to just do it.

So, for my background, I am part of a traumagenic DID system. I've been in plural spaces for years now, and am a moderator for a large pro-endo server.

A lot of systems in the servers I have both been in and moderated have a lot of introjects, especially fictives - This is normal.

However, due to this, many, many people assume everyone else is like them - A fictive.

"Do you have a source?" is the single most common question I see in both casual conversation and in new alter help channels.

People also tend to get very, very excited over source - After all, having an introject must be a sign you really enjoy that source, right?

You're expected to want to talk about source as a fan and not as someone who just so happens to have been sourced from somewhere.

You're expected to talk about your exomemories and feelings fondly as if they're nothing more than part of a show you like.

You're expected to know and be friendly with other introjects who share your source.

There also is no real understanding within the wider community of how introjects work, I find - I was surprised to see just how many people in the server I moderate do not know much about abuser introjects.

For example, it was a surprise for many of them to find out how a system member reflecting/repeating behavior from an abuser may be an abuser introject, or how an abuser introject may look like "The abuser if they were a good person/actually cared about me" (Such as a "replacement parental figure"), in a similar vein to how you may have "non-source-compliant" introjects from media (As in, they do not have to look like source or be named after source or behave exactly like source in order to be an introject).

And yet, despite this, everyone is assumed to be an introject unless proven otherwise.

If you share a name with a fictional character, it's assumed you're an introject.

If you have colored hair, it's assumed you're an introject.

If you have a non-"stereotypical english" name, it's assumed you're an introject.

If you have pseudomemories or exomemories, it's assumed you're an introject.

I find this issue most glaring in channels where people are most vulnerable - New alter help channels.

Often, it's assumed that if you are there, you must be an introject.

The questions start off not as trying to ground you but as pinning down a source - What do you remember? Do you remember your friends' names? Do you remember what school you went to?

Not only is this often not helpful for the newly formed introjects who are less concerned about "figuring out who they are" and more distressed over not knowing where they are or why they are so confused or cannot remember anything - This also quickly becomes dangerous for the non-introject.

A personal example that really harshly outlined this issue for me was when we formed a new part - A very confused, very high-amnesia part.

I cannot remember if they saw the notes we leave around our room to plan for this situation or if they were told to go there by someone outside the system or if something else happened, but they made their way to a new alter help channel regardless.

They were not, however, an introject.

They were asked what they needed help with, and they told others they were, to quote them, "Having a lot of trouble adjusting. Nothing really feels real and I get scared when I think about a lot of things because they're so different and unfamiliar. I miss my friends and just want to go back to having fun with them again."

The next question? "Do you remember what your friends look like?"

For many people in plural spaces, this may seem like a reasonable follow-up question.

For us, however, it put us at risk of accidentally doxxing ourselves when already in a highly confused and vulnerable state.

They were not an introject.

They were a trauma part, who formed only with memories of highschool. They remembered those, but nothing after, and was very confused on how much had changed and found themselves in a very unfamiliar place with things that held no memory to them. They were scared, and lost.

Their friends' names, as well as the name of their school (Which was later asked in this same conversation), would not have been that of a fictional character - It would have been our old real-life friends and school.

In cases like these, the assumption of being an introject is not only unhelpful, it can be actively dangerous for new system members.

This new system member of ours, also, explicitly said, over and over, that they were not as stressed about the identity confusion as they were about not knowing where they were or why things are so different now, yet others continued pushing to try to guess a source from them that did not exist.

New alter help channels, ideally, should be used for helping new system members get grounded - However, instead they are used as "Guess the character" games, at the expense of the newly formed system member.

[dissociativediscourse]

Understanding the difference between systemic oppression and social stigma: Why endogenic systems aren't oppressed for being plural, and why that doesn't mean that their struggles are unimportant

Time for the newest syscourse topic, one that I’ve actually been thinking about quite a bit lately. I had a conversation with my very pro-endo friend about it a while back, and it caused me to realize that the entire issue is really that we don’t understand the distinction between oppression and social stigma, and why exactly endogenic plurals are stigmatized, but not oppressed. And why this doesn’t mean that struggles that they do face are “invalid” (boy, do I hate that whole concept. I hate the whole valid thing. It doesn’t do anything any justice.) 

To start off with, it's important to clarify each of these terms. Oppression refers to the systematic mistreatment, subjugation, and denial of rights by those in power against a specific group. On the other hand, social stigma involves societal disapproval or mistreatment directed at individuals who possess certain characteristics or identities. While the two concepts may intersect, they are not synonymous. 

Endogenic plurals, despite facing challenges in the form of social stigma, do not experience systemic oppression in the same way as historically marginalized groups. The comparison I drew in my conversation with the previously mentioned friend was to communities like furries and therians, who similarly encounter varying degrees of societal rejection. While they may be subjected to ridicule, bullying, or social ostracization, these experiences are not the same as being actively oppressed by institutions and systemic structures.

I would also like to highlight that the challenges endogenic plurals face are largely only present within the Western context. Outside of that, they not only ‘would be’ but are very easily accepted, sometimes for religious/spiritual reasons. I had someone from the Middle East (not going to specify which country because I don’t know if anyone knows who this is and would prefer to not dox them lol) describe to me that they once thought that they were endogenic – they were open to their family and community about this, and were very widely accepted for it. It was seen as creative, and a beautiful thing! But once they discovered that they had formed their system through trauma, and that they had DID, it became different. Suddenly it was something to be shunned – this is largely because it isn’t the system that’s the issue. It isn’t the concept of plurality that is an issue, by and large, it’s the trauma. It’s the fact that this is a disabling condition. It’s the fact that when you have DID, you have a rare mental illness. It’s the fact that you are experiencing trauma responses that are unpalatable to those who don’t understand them. 

That’s far from the only story I’ve heard of that type, and I’ve particularly seen a LOT of Asian systems speaking about acceptance of endogenic plurality vs. rejection of DID in their cultures. This is a very West-centric argument, and also goes to show how narrow of a perspective many of the current larger syscoursers pushing endo oppression as a concept have on the subject of oppression. 

You may say, “But, there’s a potential for systemic oppression and violence against endogenic plurals! We just don’t have enough data, because they’re not “out” yet.” My friend said this! I appreciated the point, because it allowed me to highlight my above argument about endogenic plurality outside of the west and also the fact that historical patterns of systemic oppression and the reasoning for such and the examination of parallels with other marginalized groups and their histories with oppression reveal that such concerns are really just… Not warranted. Genuinely, the struggles that endogenic plurals face are much closer to that of the furry community, or that of the therian community. These groups also have to deal with with societal misunderstandings and negative perceptions. Just as with endogenic plurals, the issues they face stem from a lack of understanding rather than a deliberate effort to oppress. If either of those groups were to be open about their identities, they’d face similar struggles – and they do. It’s not exactly the wisest thing to talk to your boss about being a furry or a therian, and it’s liable to get you some hate/bullying/mistreatment directed towards you at some point. It’s stigma.

While endogenic plurals may experience interpersonal mistreatment and possibly even limited job opportunities due to being open about their identities, these challenges are primarily driven by social stigma and negative perceptions. It's worth noting that any systemic violence or marginalization they encounter often stems from an intersection with already marginalized groups, such as the queer or neurodiverse communities. Sure, many endogenic plurals are queer or otherwise neurodiverse, but that intersection and further the violence directed towards it can’t exist without the existence of those other identities. A cishet, white, NT and otherwise non-marginalized endogenic plural isn’t oppressed. A trans, ND, POC who is an endogenic plural is, but not because of their plurality, though it does create a different (and notable) intersection with a few of these aspects. 

It's really important to recognize that conflating social stigma with systemic oppression oversimplifies the experiences of truly systemically oppressed groups, while at the same time not even doing any justice to the issues endogenic plurals themselves DO face. If we can just… Understand that these are two very separate issues, the distinct challenges that endogenic plurals DO face can be more accurately and effectively addressed and advocated for. If we can just ACKNOWLEDGE this, that’s already contributing to a broader, more informed discourse that fosters so much more inclusivity and empathy than what we’ve got right now.

[transmascpetewentz]

Intro + Basic Stuff

It has been 5 days since a transandrophobe has been horrifyingly disrespectful of a gay trans man who died of AIDS on one of my posts or in my inbox.

It has been 3 days since a cis gay man has whined about his genital preference in my notes and/or inbox when I didn't ask.

If you're here because someone accused me of being a TERF, please know that I am not. Read this for more details.

I can't think of a name to use on this blog so just refer to me either by my URL or a silly nickname. My BYF as well as a few blinkies are under the cut.

my pronouns are he/him, but any are fine if you're clearly using them to show that you respect me. they/them is generally okay as long as you aren't using them to dehumanize me.

i prefer gendered terms (boy, girl, enby) over neutral terms, but i will block you if you use "girl" in a misgendering sense. malewife and similar terms are fine. also, this is highly unlikely to come up, but please don't call me "queen."

i'm USAmerican, and when i'm talking about issues, i'm likely talking about USAmerica unless i indicate otherwise.

i'm currently having brainrot about: fall out boy, american idiot, red white and royal blue, fallout new vegas, and velvet goldmine (the 1998 film).

i also post untagged discourse on this blog, specifically talking about transmasc issues, trans liberation, queer liberation, and how to be normal about transmascs if you aren't one.

i'm also looking into converting to judaism, and as such i might post about conversion and judaism in general. filter #judaism if you don't want to see it.

i'm part of a system, so it might not always be the same person answering asks. i probably won't post about it mostly because i want to stay out of syscourse.

all original posts are #wentz.txt, asks are #asks. if i ever have photos of myself on here, they'll be #wentz.jpg.

this blog runs on a queue, so just because i post doesn't mean i've been online recently.

this is my alternate account. i have a main blog that i'm ignoring due to harassment. if you have me blocked on my main and try to follow me here, i'm blocking you for your own sake.

cis women are welcome to follow but don't touch any of my posts making fun of cis gay men or i will bite you.

blog rules:

no, i'm never sharing my age on here.

tag filtering: flashing, eyestrain, loud, violence cw, sexual assault cw, pedophilia cw, self harm cw, suicide cw, not worksafe, long post, anon hate, arguing with bigots, fascism cw.

please do not ask me about whether i am pro or anti ship, whether i support endogenic systems, or my views on intracommunity issues i'm not part of.

i'm autistic and as such might not understand if i'm making you uncomfortable. please either block me or DM me and tell me to stop doing something.

i won't reblog your callout post, reblog bait, guilt tripping, or donation post. an exception might be made for your donation post if we're mutuals.

if i don't block you, then i don't mind you following me. i don't softblock. please don't softblock me either, just block or else i'll refollow.

if i have reblogs enabled on a post, i'm fine with anyone reblogging it. if i have replies enabled, i'm fine with anyone replying.

if you're going to send anon hate, it has to be interesting, original, funny, and/or creative.

also, if you're going to send anon hate, please refrain from calling me slurs, sending me death threats, sexually harassing me, or misgendering me. also, please censor the name sh***a, or don't use the name at all in your ask.

i don't really have a dni, but i will block you if: you fetishize gay men or trans men, you support capitalism and/or cops, you glorify the actions of the ussr, you deny that transandrophobia exists, you think that feminine cis men are more oppressed than feminine trans men.

actually, i have to add a dni now: please dni if you falsely accuse gay men who died of aids of sexual assault. yes, someone like this tried to interact with me.

That should be it for now!

[discourse-by-candlelight]

Wrath: Is the -genic debate really having a revival on this site? I know syscourse sucks but seriously I thought Tumblr was mostly past this already.

Anyways, local tulpamantic system here to remind everyone that while plurality isn't the most well studied thing, there are real papers and academic opinions to point towards. Endogenic plurality stopped being such a hot take a while ago.

If anyone wants an interesting paper or two, we'd be happy to post some. You could just as easily find them on the pins of the big-time pro endo syscoursers though.

There is much more nuanced conversations to be had in syscourse. Let's talk about something more interesting.

[bhaalitsm]

intro post. . .

❛ 🥩｡ 七情 Lumenwood Kins

⊂ dikke⠀manto₂ . she/he

; 9teen⠀. genderfluid lesbian

⠀⠀⠀⠀ freq. ! 🛢

⠀⠀ →⠀⠀⠀[O1] [O2] [O3] ◞

⠀⠀ !🪳⠀⠀⠀[O4] [O5] [O6]◞

🥀 wasian jew manhater 🏚️

╰⭔ . rentry. carrd . . 🪓

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀🚬(￣▽￣*)ゞ

𐚁̸⠀⠀⠀ girlfriend . . . < 3

front :: ꩜ꖛ⏤͟͟͞͞★⤵

⠀ -fiction is my primary coping outlet, I have lots introjects or alters who appear physically as characters

discord :: umayon (just lmk ur from tumblr)

instagram :: umayoning

:readmore:

interests :: | red = special interest |

MOVIES spiderverse, Avatar, Avatar: The Way of Water, Us, Nope, Nightmare on elm street, Texas chainsaw massacre, the Saw franchise, Hellraiser, Killer Klowns from Outerspace, Bottoms, Get Out, Scream, basically all horror

SHOWS Skylanders, Game of Thrones, House of the dragon, ANY GORDON RAMSEY SHOW J LOVE GORDON RAMSEY I WATHC ALL HIS SHOWS, The Boys >>>>>

MUSIC The living tombstone, tryhardninja, jtmachinma, Reol, Walküre, Uma musume pretty derby, Dagames, Ado, most fnaf and vocaloid music, fish inside a birdcage, Atarashii Gakko,

ANIMES HxH, Chainsaw man, Uma musume pretty derby, Naruto, Macross Delta, School Live Club, Corpse Party, Ao Oni, Demon Slayer, JJBA

GAMES Uma Museum Pretty Derby, Skylanders, Puppet Combo, Bloodborne, Darkest Dungeon, Elden Ring, Dark Deception, The Quarry, Ark Survival Evolved, DBD, IDV, League of Legends, Call of Duty, Red Dead Redemption, Apex Legends, Borderlands, FNAF, Don't Starve, Pokemon, God of War, Resident Evil, Splatoon, tealerland, ao oni, My singing monsters, Attack on Time, Baldurs Gate 3, Fear and Hunger, Splatoon

YOUTUBERS CORYXKENSHIN IM HIS BIGGEST FAN IVE BEEN WITH HIM SINCE 4k SUBS!!! Manlybadasshero, astralspiff, superhorrorbro, fusionZgamer, Charborg, Bedbannanas, Lore Lodge

OTHERS Creepypasta, Missing 411, Dyatlov Pass, Korovina Group Incident, Horses, My job (haunted house,) Dinosaurs, Junji Ito, Keychains, Collecting, M&Ms, Шайлушай

變 : not really interested in engaging with syscourse though I might occasionally, I am mostly anti-endo (pro conversation), though the majority of that is due to co-opting of terminology, cultural appropriation, spreading of misinformation, overall attitude towards systems, and general redirection of resources away from trauma victims : neutrals feel free to interact, pro-endos can as well if you aren’t obnoxious about it 💊

𖧧 : endos who do not do any of the following feel free to int:: you do not use any medical system terms, do not use the word “sysmed”, are not appropriating or in support of appropriating cultures (tulpas), do not spread misinformation about DID/OSDD research, are educated on the DID/OSDD diagnostic criteria, and do not actively take sources away from trauma victims 🥩 my stance is that you do not need trauma to be plural, but you do need trauma to be a system. Me being anti-endo isn’t saying I don’t think you exist, I’m saying your plurality is not systemhood and you need to stop forcing yourselves into our spaces.

♡ Don’t call me plural, do not use plural pronouns, don’t call my alters headmates⚡️ not listing triggers, mutuals tag aggressive yelling, dog fights, and “as long as it’s consensual” phrase thank you

- Did not think I’d need to say this but proshippers dnfi, if you comment on any of my posts you’re asking for an IP reveal

[syscourse-confessions]

sorry this is VERY long but i have to get it off my chest

the idea that you have to have DID/OSDD-1 to be any sort of multiple/plural really fucked us up and led us to misdiagnosing ourself. it led us to such a horrible place in life

i remember my anti-endo friends used to call us "the only good endo" before convincing us to self-dx. i didnt even consider myself endogenic but that didn't matter to them, anyone different from them was an endo. they wouldn't let any headmates other than our host speak anywhere except for their own dedicated channel, while every other system's alters could speak anywhere they wanted. a lot of us felt so isolated

we were pressured by our anti-endo friends to take on the label of an OSDD-1 system, despite us barely knowing a thing about the disorder. this is not how self-diagnosis should go, but we felt like we would never truly have their support if we didn't follow what they wanted us to do. they celebrated this decision and for a long while, we thought that we really did have this disorder

i remember when i found out that those friends had made a discord channel to talk about me and my systemhood behind my back, speculate about my trauma, try to pick apart our words to find any hint of amnesia, and liveblogged what i thought were private conversations i was having about my trauma and questioning systemhood. i felt so mortified and violated but i said nothing

they did this because they thought my headmates sounded "too genuine" to not be DID alters

the anti-endo community sent me down this deep spiral of shame and dissociation, life felt even more like walking through a thick fog. i was being told who i was/wasn't allowed to talk to. what experiences i did/didn't have. what words i was/wasn't allowed to use. if i did or said the wrong thing, it would make me a bad person, so i better have stayed in fucking line

communities that were supposed to be focused on trauma recovery always focused so heavily on making fun of and bullying endogenic systems and suicide-baiting. even back when i was anti-endo, i felt so uncomfortable with the extent it got to, but i was not allowed to speak out against it

i started to question my self-dx and the anti-endo community when, based on no evidence other than the types of headmates we had, some people we knew started to tell us that we must have been through a very severe type of abuse that we just... never did, in reality. they told us that we must have very severe amnesia (which we don't), so we can't trust what we know about our own experiences - they wanted us to trust THEM with what has happened with our life and what hasn't

i know. "not all anti-endos". but enough anti-endos to hurt me. and enough anti-endos to be present in every single online community i'd been a part of. and pro-endo spaces are far from perfect, but at least there's people actually fighting

when i started learning more about DID, OSDD (as a whole, not just -1), DDNOS, and UDD, and when i started learning more about non-DID/OSDD-1 experiences of plurality such as endogenic plurality, i shed the anti-endo label. i lost friends and my old communities, but i gained freedom and trust in myself, and i'm slowly starting to heal as i find newer communities who will accept us for who we are, as a non-DID/OSDD-1 adaptive plural

i'm sorry this is so incredibly long. i just..really needed this. i feel like my experiences were maybe not that bad or at least not bad enough but i was already in a very bad place so it all just affected us very much

💙.

💙 - Vent

DISCLAIMER: Posts may or may not reflect accurate information. More info here: https://www.tumblr.com/syscourse-confessions/728819621058232320/disclaimer-treat-posts-here-like-you-would-any

[korya-elana]

Got a message saying "wanted to let you know I'm blocking you cause you're pro endo. just so you don't think I'm blocking cause we had a disagreement lol I'm not that petty."

As if blocking me because of who I choose support isn't petty? I don't post about endos all that often and the post we were discussing was a post clarifying CDD terms.

This is just so stupid. This, right here, is my BIGGEST pet peeve in syscourse. It shouldn't matter that I'm pro-endo and that you're not. That had nothing to do with our conversation. I may be pro-endo but I am NOT endo and I'm sick of being excluded from spaces and resources based on one stance that I'm not even looking to discuss with you.

So yeah. You are that petty. Gatekeeping CDD resources and spaces from CDDs is fucking ridiculous. Block the damn tags, not the CDD Systems who would still like access to CDD things.

[sysmedsaresexist]

We really need to come up with better terms for syscourse stances because the main ones aren't cutting it

Anti endo can mean everything from staunch disbelief and bad, aggressive posts to completely believing that endogenic systems are real and valid but not wanting them to interact with CDD-specific content

Being pro endo can mean someone believes DID is caused by trauma and that the CDD community must be protected above all else, to people actively villainizing CDD systems and everything in-between

Endo neutral can mean everything from not caring at all about syscourse and refusing to engage, to allowing interaction from all sides without judgement despite personal beliefs

Anti-misinformation had promise at one point in reference to the massive amounts of misinformation in both communities, but it wasn't working

Any and all of these labels can mean you think the DSM or ICD directly affirms endogenic systems and they can also mean that person has never picked up a DSM in their life

NONE OF THESE ARE WORKING

None of them are accurate

None of them convey the full picture

These are useless labels

(I don't want to hear a peep about the syscourse code, that's not cutting it either, no one has time for that)

People getting upset over pro endo mods on anti endo blogs don't realize that you can share the exact same beliefs about science and the communities and use opposing labels.

Some pro endo blogs should try putting an anti endo on their team to control misinformation and point out ableism, seriously, interaction is how you start learning, anti endos seem more willing to take that step than pro endos and that's pathetic

I also think it might be good to remove the focus from the validity and acceptance of endogenic systems (anti/pro endo) and place it back on what's important-- protecting traumatized individuals

Maybe something like "#CDDs first" can convey that your intention, attention, and audience will always prioritize the CDD community and their safety, but even that... someone can be well-intentioned when they misquote things

I don't know, I'd love to hear the communities' thoughts-- both pro and anti, I'd like this to spread around a bit, I think it's important that people realize that labels don't mean there's disagreement on ideas and concepts-- a pro endo can share the same goals and ideas as an anti endo and vice versa

For example, at this point, I'll happily interact with anyone who agrees that DID is a childhood trauma disorder. That's it. That's my bar. No more, no less. There are pro endos who believe the exact same things I do on all fronts, despite calling me anti endo.

It really just doesn't make sense.

Maybe together we can come up with something better

[circular-bircular]

Probs the last post for tonight, but I just want to say:

If your first reaction to someone opening up to you about the harassment they have personally faced is "harassment is bad, but you need to look at yourself in some of this" - then you are fucked up imo.

Nobody should be blamed for the harassment they've faced, especially when the harassment they're facing is because they're being called a label that they do not identify as and have active trauma about.

[yanoharuhito]

syscourse thoughts ... i promise im not a fucking syscourser but i have a thought

i think too much of the conversation surrounding "endogenics" is focused on whether or not they're real, and like ... i definitely do not think they qualify as systems in the same sense that those with DID/OSDD do but there's probably SOMETHING going on

like if whatever endos are experiencing isnt 'real' then endos would not be as widespread as they are. i think the biggest problem with them is the way they claim the label of 'system' from those with DID/OSDD. a good chunk of endos, i believe, are probably experiencing a whole other thing removed from systems entirely.

that being said, there are people who call themselves endos that likely DO have trauma substantial enough to have formed a system and are simply in denial about it ... those who understand the existence of their system but may not [want to] remember what formed them. i can sympathize with this approach (i still don't like the usage of the endo label, though.)

i think, wholeheartedly, that a lot of those who call themselves 'endos' suffer from delusions or psychosis, much in the same way people with DAs/IRLs do. this may be a reason why so many endogenic """systems""" tend to have a large amount of fictional characters within them, not dissimilar to fictives

honestly, the best thing to do is to completely separate the supposed endo experience from DID/OSDD spaces altogether. the best first thing to do would be to come up with a label for this group of people that does NOT rely on existing terms coined for systems. like, a whole new vocab needs to be created. i think the continued use of the label 'endo' would be problematic given its ties to syscourse and like. -genic implies that there are other ways to be part of a system diverging from trauma. and there is just no evidence for that right now.

additionally i would love for these people to be studied GENUINELY i don't mean that as a joke i dont mean it to be patronizing i seriously want to see a medical study geared at 'endos.' i want to know what the overlapping demographics are, things like that. because if these ppl can find their own place outside of the realm of systems and establish a community grounded by evidence i truly believe SO much of the discourse would go away. or at least die down a bit.

at this point, i think most anti-endos JUST want their space. pros and antis have such such such differing stances and experiences that i truly think it would just be better for endos to migrate away from system spaces entirely. because like... i dont think whats going on with them has anything to do with DID/OSDD, or any way a person can be a system.

[anti-endo-haven]

Why do we not support endos?

A main reason why we don’t support endos is based on our own experiences of them claiming a disorder they don’t have, joining the communities they don’t belong in, and actively go out of their way to bully and belittle those that don’t agree with them or view them as valid. We have seen many friends get hurt, bullied, doxxed, threatened, and spiral from endogenics and endogenic supporters.

This blog will not support any type of non-trauma genie system.

What can we post here?

Anything! Rants, vents, conversations, questions, anything! This is a haven for anti-endos to find a community without worry! It doesn’t have to be syscourse related either! If you need a place to go to, this is the place!

Can we claim emojis?

Of course! I’ll make a dedicated area within the pinned post showing claimed emojis or names!

Who can interact?

Anti-endos mainly! If you are syscourse unaligned or neutral, you can also have a place here, but if it turns to being pro-endo, I’d ask you to remove yourself as this might not be the place for you!

What if we have other questions not posted here?

Feel free to ask wherever you feel most comfortable!

[hiiragi7]

So many of y'all are so fucking performative. You care about racism for looks, but nothing deeper than that and it shows. This whole Tulpa debate thing really displays the ugly side of the system community.

Why do you only care about Tibetan/Buddhist voices when it suits your argument? You aren't listening very well if you just pick and choose the voices you like.

You should listen to everyone who has a say in this. Yes, even if they don't share your exact syscourse alignment - This conversation is bigger than syscourse.

I'm so goddamn tired. It feels like nobody on the pro-Tulpa terminology side wants a conversation, it's just a debate to "win". This topic is so much more sensitive than that, and it hurts to see the way it's being treated. It just reminds me of all the ways the cultures I was raised with have been bastardized and had the damage claimed as "not that serious". It hurts. And it feels like people will find any excuse not to listen.

[gender-mailman]

Capyqueer! (emoji combo: 🐹🇧🇷)

Capyqueer is a blankqueer term, focusing more on the brazilian part of the community

This term was made as a way for folks to find a more brazilian community, and to focus on conversations around inclusion of other nationalities and trying to change the perception other people have of brazilians and pocs in general

It was made for brazilian people but anyone can use it!

This term is ESPECIALY anti transrace

This term is;

Pro para

Pro kink

Pro microlabels

Pro mspec monos

Pro recovery - not just oriented about paraphilias

Pro MAD pride

Anti contact with harmful paraphilias

Anti Minor In Kink

Anti radqueer

Anti transid

Anti harassment

Syscourse unspecified

Anti ship

Tagging: @acetrappolaswife @dylan-the-artist @silentfoxproductions