#the same is true for butches its just not of my experience and such

[cruelsister-moved2]

ive a post about this somewhere but i feel like people need to understand that the reason butch and femme are binary isnt JUST to do with the fact that theyre specific interpersonal roles but also like they have to be binary to actually be free. like there’s no one way to ‘look’ butch or femme - i know you guys are very very into the pink fluffy full face of makeup hyperfeminine high heeled look but a lot of our presentation is actually very subtle. often times you look at a picture of a femme from the past and the only reason you know they’re femme is that they aren’t butch. in a world that pushes hyperfemininity on women and constantly makes us feel like we aren’t feminine enough (and the solution is to buy more things) (and our standards of femininity are biased in favour of thin, cis, white, abled people) femme identity can be about finding your femininity in jeans and a t-shirt, through your position in relation to butch women.

you cannot turn this into a ranking system and think that it’s progressive. you cannot be more or less femme, you’re just either femme or you’re not. femmes can be gnc! wearing practical, comfy clothes is literally more femme than wearing shein. you have to recognise how challenging it is to separate femininity from discomfort and consumption, and when i see someone who extensively performs femininity call themselves futch because they don’t shave their legs or they have short hair, I’m not seeing some kind of progressive meta-androgyny I’m just seeing the grasping claws of compulsory femininity telling everyone in my community that we have to work harder to be feminine ENOUGH or masculine ENOUGH

[kirlianradio]

I’m all for transmascs and men being fem but god it drives me crazy when they join in the convo talkin abt how there’s NO issues towards trans masculinity or just masculinity in queer spaces in general.

Your experiences with bigotry are often rooted in how society views you, if the only time masculinity is perceived is mentioning your identity, of course you’re not gonna experience ppl hating your masculinity as often (not that you *don’t* experience it, just that it’s not gonna be the same as a passing transman/mascs blah blah blah)

Like it’s not even just transmen/masc who experience slights against masculinity either. While I definitely have more experience with the transman side based on my own identity there’s definitely others.

it’s ppl saying butch women are ugly disgusting men and a stain on lesbianism “embracing womanhood”, it’s passing transmen getting ostracized from our own community becuz we’re treated like a threat, it’s people being bioessentialist towards transwomen becuz being born a man means you’re “inherently evil”, its pppl who only ever talk abt transmen being masc when they do something they don’t like, it’s nonbinary becoming “womanlite” becuz fem gender nonconformity good and masc gender nonconformity bad!, its ppl who demonize testosterone, bottom surgery, and bottom growth for anyone who gets it, its ppl being abhorrent to cis gay men cuz “they’ll always inherently be just as bad, they don’t understand the true queer experience!”, its ppl using neutral pronouns on binary transmen cuz nonbinary is more “acceptable” than a man, on and on and on and on

Just overall while it’s understandable that the queer community has a complicated relationship with masculinity due to the systematic oppression from the hands of cishet men. Demonizing all masculinity and downplaying masculinity as inherently never having issues DOES end up eliminating the nuance of queer masculinity being a much more complex experience.

Ppl want to boil this down to always solely terf ideology but then it allows the queer community to make an “us vs them” standard and never question their own actions or biases. Anyone who doesn’t use the terf label on their account can spew terf bioessentialism ideology and the queer community eats it up without even noticing. Just fully throwing other queers under the bus.

( And no, before anyone tries it, I’m not saying femininity has no issues. Femininity is something that always systematically gets mistreated in every community based on societal standards. This isn’t me saying masculinity has it worse. I acknowledge there’s also some privileges that do come from masculinity. This is SOLELY me saying that we can acknowledge BOTH experiences issues without ignoring the other. I talk abt queer masculinity because that is *MY* experience so I feel more equipped to talk abt it, that doesn’t mean I don’t care abt the other)

[lakesbian]

@bestbutchbracket

Rationally I am aware that this bracket is Not That Serious. For fun, even.

This did not stop me from accidentally putting together an entire campaign video and essay for Lake. She's butch butch, in the way that was incredibly important for me to see on TV, and seeing her in the bracket made me legitimately really happy. I wanna share the butch Lake highlight reel with the participants who haven't heard of her before and don't have time for 1 1/2 hours of television over a Tumblr poll!

So I present to you all: An organized highlight reel (of lots but certainly not all) of Lake's Butch Moments, plus a bonus essay. The people should be properly informed about their candidate options before they vote!

She really does deserve a win, despite not being one of the "iconic" options. She's one of the best butch characters I have ever seen, and I'm damned picky about what I call butch representation. She's not just gender non-conforming--she's the main character of an entire season about her struggling against systematic oppression and asserting her right to exist no matter how many times she's told she's not a person. She faces police brutality, she faces dehumanization, she faces constant bias, she faces being systematically discriminated against in favor of a gender-conforming girl and a boy, she faces being told that she doesn't even exist, and every step of the way she defiantly asserts: I am a person, I am not the feminine girl you want me to be, and I am going to keep living no matter what.

And she's just so deeply butch even beyond the big sci-fi metaphor-driven narrative about oppression. She's cool, she's strong, she's kind and thoughtful but she doesn't take any shit. She loudly criticizes toxic masculinity. She's brave, she's scared, she's tough, she's silly, she's angry, she's loving, she's loud. She contains all the multitudes I recognize and love in other butches. She's the sturdy person her friend can lean on when he accidentally steps in mud and needs to lift a foot to shake it off. She blushes and stammers when a group of pretty girls compliment her buzzcut. She's got massive boots and a DIY'd tank top. She hates cops. She gives hugs that could break backs. She's eking out an existence in a world that explicitly doesn't want her.

Lake is honestly something special. Infinity Train was the only time I've ever gotten into a completely mainstream and fairly popular show and then, out of nowhere, received an entire season explicitly about someone like me living my experience. I know that Sailor Uranus and Mo and Jess Goldberg and all those characters are iconic, but I'd legitimately place Lake in the same tier as them in terms of quality of representation. I cried the first four times I rewatched her season because of how familiar it was. Infinity Train is a sci-fi show, but it's primarily about people being people, and its depiction of Lake's gender non-conformity (addressed primarily through a very literal sci-fi metaphor in which her being made of metal acts as a handy stand-in for gender non-conformity whenever her appearance is being discussed) is painfully, wonderfully, recognizably true to the butch experience. She's the bracket's baby butch--both a relatively newly made character and canonically young--and she deserves a win to welcome her into the ranks of famous butch characters.

C'mon, vote Lake so she can proudly show off her new crown to all the older, more famous butches in the poll. They'd be proud of her. After all the time she's canonically spent being unfairly stuffed into boxes, she deserves a little recognition for what she actually is: hands-down one of The Best Butches you can find in any media.

[fujoreads]

To Strip the Flesh // Review

To Strip the Flesh is a short tales collection in manga format, containing 5 stories in total—the main one going by the book’s title.

I remember someone mentioning this in a book-related podcast I listen to, but I don’t remember which one. I found it at a bookshop when I went on a little date last year, and I just had to buy it! It took me a while to finally read it, but I’m glad I did.

CW: Gender Dysphoria, Explicit Nudity; Organs; Hunting; Animal death; Sexism; Transphobia; Body Horror

This manga was something else. I may not have the exact same experience as our protagonist Chiaki, but I related so hard I cried—thrice, in fact. I got such a headache from crying I had to end the day that evening. Powerful stuff.

I knew I would probably enjoy it because of the art and the topic of trans issues. I myself am a transmasc bastard, so it’s always nice to see manga talking about these things.

When I finally finished it, I had to pause for a minute or two. For the first half, I read many scenes where I felt dysphoric together with Chiaki, but the way the story ended made me actually try to be stronger and fight for my right to happiness, even if I have to face transphobic doctors on the way.

Chiaki Ogawa has never doubted that he is a boy, although the rest of the world has not been as kind. Bound by his mother’s dying wish, Chiaki tries to be a good daughter to his ailing father. When the burden becomes too great, Chiaki sets out to remake himself in his own image and discovers more than just personal freedom with his transition—he finds understanding from the people who matter most. (The StoryGraph)

Although the main story is this one about Chiaki, there are many others who are also just as enjoyable, albeit shorter.

This tale is condensed in about 100 pages, but packs an emotional punch enough to leave you in tears. It made me realize that I have my own found family and I don’t need to keep living a lie.

The flow of the story may have been somewhat rushed due to its overall length, but it still felt neatly presented. I do wish I could have seen more of Chiaki and the rest of the cast, especially his late mother.

This manga’s artstyle is interesting. It feels very anime, but it does feel different in some aspects, like how soft the eyes are. I really enjoyed it.

As someone with a big chest, I personally related to Chiaki’s struggles and the way it was visually presented was just wonderful.

Chiaki is the son of a hunter (who also butches his own kills). He lives as a closeted trans man and desires not to betray his parents’ wishes for him—to be a bride—hurt as it may. He struggles with trying to impose his masculinity to his father, who refuses to see him as anything else but his daughter, saying how “women don’t hunt”, and never letting him get hurt, seeing him as a frail girl. However, we also see his weaknesses: how he never lets his father know his true feelings, even when his father clearly shows he cares for what he thinks is best to Chiaki. It’s understandable, but also what strains their relationship at some point, even if from Chiaki’s perspective.

It’s so sweet to see Chiaki’s growth after a big moment where he has to make an important decision, both for him and his father, and how that improved their overall relationship.

His father was an interesting character to follow as well, even if we see less of him, and usually accompanied by Chiaki. I wish we could have had more moments with him.

I enjoyed Takato as a friend of Chiaki’s, but while he is sweet and supportive, he’s also a bit annoying. Maybe having him grow more throughout the story instead of a last-minute development would have made him more justice.

This was a lovely read, and not just for the main story. Personally, the Hot Watermelon short story was my second favorite, followed by David in Love.

I got even more excited seeing how Oto Toda, the author, worked as an assistant for Tatsuki Fujimoto on Fire Punch—one of my favorite works ever, as despair-inducing as it was.

If you care about stories centered around trans issues, you’ll certainly like it. It’s also a tale of father-son love, and how old wounds can be treated, even if it seems all too late.

This is a very short story, followed by other even shorter stories, so if you desire a more detailed and lengthy tale, you might not enjoy this. It’s a powerful narrative, but it’s rushed at times and unless you personally relate to Chiaki’s struggles, you might feel less emotionally affected.

✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆⁺₊✧ ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆⁺₊✧ ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆⁺₊✧ ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆⁺₊✧ ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆⁺₊✧ ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆⁺₊✧

Thank you for reading it all to the end! Hey, kind stranger! Would you be so kind and consider giving me a little tip? It can be as low as 3 bucks and it’d make a huuuuuge difference!! If you tip 10€ (or higher), you can dictate my next read and be credited (if you’d like) on that review! Have a nice day!!

[gontagokuhara]

Just went on Instagram to look at more DR art (because tumblr won't let me see a lot of DR art for some reason) and saw hinanami discourse out in the wild which made me say, out loud, "oh, are we still doing this 💀"

Like idk if I've just aged out of the fandom (on Instagram) but just seeing that hinanami rant made me realize I've been spoiled by the DR community on Tumblr bc I'll scroll on here for 2 minutes and see a text post that will literally SHIFT my entire view of a character/ship and CHANGE my LIFE in just a small analysis that was probably written by op while they were on the toilet💀

Anyway it made me think of the post about Maki and Chappel Roan that I actually recited by memory out loud to my friend last night [gooning over wlw content together after watching Muriel's Wedding], And also that one post abt Monomi and Monokuma being Junko's satire of her own rivalry with Mukuro, and Junko not liking that her friends don't appreciate her fursona doing stand-up 💀💀 and like compare that to Instagram discourse and it's like "Komahina is stupid bc hinata isn't straight" like 💀

Anyway maybe it was the same on tumblr before [it probably definitely was] but now that I'm older I'm really appreciating mature convos/takes about danganronpa because good fanfiction/fanart/fan interpretations are truly adapting the story+characters in much better ways than the creators could ever imagine circa 2010 [pointy objects] [peaches and cream] [anything w/autistic nagito] [anything w/transmasc hajime]

number one rule of modern fandom experience (at the very least with media that has a propensity to draw Certain Crowds [looking especially hard at danganronpa and p5]) is CURATE YOUR OWN SPACE AND STRAY NO FARTHER ‼️‼️‼️ i personally escaped the early era dr fandom (pre v3 localization/the 2019 Danganronpa Renaissance) but time capsule posts tell me i dodged something of a bullet there ❤️ in that vein 2019/2020/covid era discourse was still crazy insane (<- was a part of it for sure LMFAO) but it had a much different Flavor than it did way back when. and the same is true of present-day: still a little kooky if you search hard enough (insta/tiktok/twitter/tumblr all have their own demons). but at least This go around i have largely avoided that by picking my people that i trust not to be Weird and just living in my own bubble wrt the dr fandom at large. and thats served me very well the past year+ since i got back into dr <3 and i have also seen MANY of those perspective-altering posts in that little curation circle that has deepened and made better my experience THE GOOD IS OUT THERE ‼️‼️‼️

THE JUNKO FURSONA POST ALSO LIVES IN MY BRAIN its so real and just one of many takes i’ve seen fly by in a post and been like This is so real and it’s mine now. many such cases <3 i follow people like that and simply block people expending energy on discourse i DOOOOOONT care about. like simply enjoy kmha (I SURE DO ‼️‼️‼️) if you like it and ignore hnmi/kmnmi if you dont (cant relate I LOVE YOU TOO HINANAMI + KOMANAMI ‼️‼️‼️) and live your life happy not angry ❤️

like re: maki lesbianism (which was written on the toilet no lie) she is The most lesbian of all time i could write 10,000 scholarly articles on her comphet + traumatic past of being made to hurt people keeping her from fully coming to terms with herself as a lesbian and as someone who wants to Protect the people she loves (an integral pillar of butchness!!!!!!!!) and it is so important to me. and MANY people disagree! and i simply just dont worry about it <3 but i DO think about the people that agree (and the people who i Influence to agree…..that makes me so happy to hear you talking about it with people :D) and that makes fandom FUN!!!!! not arguing over word of god or whatever that isn’t going to change anyone’s opinions anyway 😭

there is a LOOOOOT of good discussion and character/scene analysis and genuinely fun unique takes on tumblr (+ im sure other places but i rly only interact with dr on her & Occasionally by liking a twt post on my main) and that’s where i’ve made my niche <3 people having fun with the media they enjoy and trying to salvage its shortcomings and missteps because they love it!!

and putting little old Me up amongst the dr goats (transmasc hajime) (autistic nagito)………..framing this ask tbh the HIGHEST honor 4 me……..thank you my beloved cider as always KISS MWAH MWAH

[cowboyjen68]

Bi women and lesbians are both gay, so why can't they both use butch? That makes no sense

(A different anon)

Lesbians have the right to our own language.

Apply this logic to anything else and it makes no sense. Just because we are lesbians does not mean we have to share every thing with anyone who crosses into our Venn diagram at some point.

I have a black cat, you have a grey cat, Black cats are often in danger around Halloween from assholes who think they are evil or possessed. Both the grey cat and the white cat are cats so therefore the grey cat can also claim to be in danger from those same superstitious people. Even though we all know they are not.

Hay and Straw both come in bales. Horses eat hay therefore they like straw because they both look similar and come in twined tied bales (HINT:straw is inediable for horse and carries to nutritional value).

I own a quilt that my mom and dad made together, I also have a Wal Mart quilt. Both are quilts but one was made with love and as a way for two people to share time. Both are beautiful. Both keep me warm, both, both are well made and sturdy. The Wal Mart quilt also wants to say it is just like the one handmade and has the same history and meaning to me. But we all know that is just not true.

Two thing can hold equal value but not share history or language. I can keep going and going on things that have cross over but are different and therefore are described using different language and words.

Lesbians do not owe anyone. We are not obligated, nor should we be, to share something that belongs to us.

Certainly many of us love and form lasting relationships, both friendships and romactic ones with bi women. Bi women are allowed and have the right to their own history, language and experience that differ from lesbians no matter who they love. Give lesbians that same respect.

Being a bisexual woman is a wonderful thing on its own.A superpower enabling you to see the unique beauty in both men and women,  I encourage you to  embrace your sexuality and honor it and all the wonderful things that encompasses and your sexualities unique history and struggles. Lesbians and Bi women share some common experiences, , but that does not mean lesbians have to share everything with you.

A heartfelt thank you to all the bi women I know and care about, IRL and on this app and others, who understand and love and respect the difference between them and lesbians. It is a thing of beauty where that exists.

[menalez]

https://www.tumblr.com/unabombastic/746727361545895936/httpswwwtumblrcomvvitchscvm-deactivated202306?source=share

thoughts

whew u gave me a lot to go thru and it was difficult going from link 1 to more links but. anyways

i didnt mind this article at first bc i did read a lot of research arguing lesbians were exposed to more testosterone in the womb etc and show some masculinised traits. as an example women with hyperandrogenism or PCOS are more likely to be lesbians iirc. but i started to take issue w the link at this point:

this just seems like a subtle way of saying gnc women are more male somehow. and it hasn’t been true for my experience. i can only think of one butch lesbian i’ve been with that had a more masculine voice & body than me. only one! the rest had bigger boobs, narrower shoulders, are shorter than me, have higher pitched voices, etc. they just had more masculine style & mannerisms compared to me. i’ve also come across bisexual women who are quite masculine, more masculine than many lesbians. soooo while i think there’s a link, i think it’s frankly offensive that this paper framed butch lesbians as somehow more male biologically. it seems like bias that they tried to confirm with research.

honestly i don’t fully disagree here. clearly some ppl are naturally quite gnc bc some people refuse to be masculine/feminine regardless of socialisation and pressure. many butch lesbians & feminine gay men will have stories about rejecting gender roles from a very young age. i don’t know what aspect of it is innate bc i doubt its as simple as liking dresses being innately feminine but perhaps more like, ur preferences from childhood are associated with which group you feel more kinship with somehow perhaps? idk. but to me it’s clear there’s something innate to gender non-conformity. not to say if a woman likes dresses & heels & shaving then she must be Innately Feminine or sth or that a woman liking suits must be Innately Masculine, but there’s sth beyond socialisation playing into certain preferences in gendered items at a young age.

i think intersex disorders are very broad & have a massive variation that making blanket statements about someone’s sexuality based on whether they could or could not be into someone who’s intersex but genetically male doesn’t make sense. someone who’s genetically male but assigned female at birth could very well look very much female in every sense & is socialised as female, or they could be visibly different from other women. so i don’t think it’s logical to argue someone has to be bi or can still be a lesbian bc we do not know specifics here. like the wife of caster semenya said she’s only ever been into men iirc.. in her case maybe she’s just straight or perhaps bi with strong preferences for men ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk. seems like a weird thing to debate someone’s theoretical sexuality

i have no opinion on this.

i mean i also think if someone is genetically male but was raised & assigned female then calling them men & arguing they can’t possibly actually be a woman is weird? like they have a medical condition that made their bodies develop a certain way which resulted in them being assigned a sex that doesn’t match their genetic sex but it does match their phenotypic one, & they were raised the same as someone whos female so like… why argue they’re men? who does it benefit? who are they hurting for this to be a very important distinction to make & hill to die on?

btw why does it seem like ppl are trying to cancel vvitchscum rn? what got people so heated?

[sapphos-darlings]

i think i might be both lesbian and ftm (definitely homosexual, female, dysphoric, have considered transition for years and think it genuinely may help - its just putting the pieces together that gives me hesitation). im single, have dated a few other trans men when i identified differently, but ive never tried to date in the lesbian community. im trying to figure out how it would, i guess, work if i did transition? my current plan of "meet women & transmascs looking to date women or transmascs, tell them im a transmasc lesbian immediately, hope they understand what i mean and also mutual attraction is there" seems honest but possibly unlikely to work. am i missing something, or is it just a hard path im considering? i know one of the mods previously lived as a trans man so i was hoping you might have some experience or advice to share

Your identity, while it will sound wildly conflicting by the book, is actually not at all out there or anywhere near as rare as you'd believe. People are rarely black and white or fit into neat boxes, and transmasculine people have a long history with homosexual women. There have been, and continue to be today, butch lesbians who are taking testosterone or who have had mastectomies, and who go by male pronouns. Gender dysphoria and breaking the rules of our gendered society, in both gay and lesbian communities, has always been so prevalent that this cross-gender expression is rightfully part of our recognised cultural heritage, and one of the most rooted stereotypes associated with us. Even with the rise of transgender people's own, clearly separate rights movement, there is much more overlap in reality than these easy to identify labels would let you believe.

You, as an individual, do not have to be "lesbian" or "ftm" or "female" or "male" or "man" or "woman" in any particular way. It's up to you to express yourself, not your categories; while people instinctively assume that a label will cover all that you are, this is never the case for a person. We are so much more than these aspects of our identity.

And yes, the opposite is still true: there are gay men who date transgender women, and gay women who date transgender men. I follow plenty of trans channels to date as it's both relevant to my life now and to my history before and remains an interest, and some of these channels are for partners of trans people. One of the most common topics brought up is how to match one's identity label to the seemingly out-of-bounds relationship that is happening now, and seeing so many of them, and the unique situations of the people behind them, you come to realise that a label is not a natural fit for people, it's just something we make up to find community.

Further... beyond just exclusively gay people, we bisexuals are also here, we are plentiful, and we are absolutely wonderful. Not all of us, of course, are open to dating gender diverse people - but many others are, and we're typically quite relaxed when it comes to label complications simply because they don't challenge how we're expected to be dating, which is often a source of distress for both exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual people when confronted with a relationship that isn't quite what the handbook said it would be.

Lastly, yes, you are choosing the hard path. That's just how things are, universally, for transitioned and transitioning people, and for lesbians, and for anybody else who is not the norm in our society. There are fewer of us, we are less understood, and we have fewer people whose attraction will naturally match with us either because it isn't how they're wired or because they've never brushed up with the idea beyond a hypotethical concept. However, this doesn't mean you're doomed by any means. Just using myself as an example: I'm truly a mess when it comes to gender, both trans and not trans at the same time and which label applies to me more depends entirely on the subject and the alignment of the stars, and though it's taken its sweet time coming, I've now been in a relationship with a wonderful nonbinary/gender diverse partner for well over a year. While they may not always understand the fine details of how my identity works, that can't really be expected of anybody, even somebody using the same label as I hypotethically might. I don't understand how theirs does all of the time, either - I'd say more than they don't get mine, as my struggles are largely of the transsexual variety, more about the body than expression, and theirs are more of the gender variety, where their identity and inner perception of self reign superior to the matters of the meat. But we don't have to be fully up to date on any of that: what we have in common is much more relevant to our everyday life than the fine details of the things we don't, and at the end of the day, what we have is a gay relationship, which - while it comes with its own struggles and difficulties - still allows for an amazing variety of self-expression in gender and identity both, even within this simple overarching label and state of existing in the world.

Whatever you choose, you'll find people you match up with, and in the end, it's better to be happy with yourself than unhappy with somebody else.

[aronarchy]

https://web.archive.org/web/20220101153217/https://twitter.com/butchanarchy/status/1380281183708217345

[image ID: twitter thread by butchanarchy from April 8, 2021 that reads,

Speaking as a butch lesbian, even if “there are less butches because more people are identifying as trans men/nb” were true, it would be unequivocally a good thing.

I don’t need more people identifying as butch. I want more people coming home to identities that are true to them.

Literally what is the logic behind seeing people just settling for butch/lesbian identity because they don’t have other words to speak more accurately to their experience something positive for butch/lesbian identity? Cause that sounds like shit to me!

Also, said it before and I’ll say it again, from my personal experience as a butch I’ve experienced FAR more extra+intracommunity pressure to present more feminine than I’ve EVER been pressured to transition.

It’s time to stop blaming trans men and transmasc folks for there being less butches and gnc women around when the actual cause is that y’all keep insisting that we have “masculine privilege” and use that language to keep us out of the only spaces we hope to find safety in.

^^ and of course the normal compulsory femininity we’ve always experienced and been fucked up by in the heteronormative world that often comes with the threat of violence. Sad as fuck that that rhetoric is creeping its way more and more into lgbtqia circles.

Also, fuck Glenn Greenwald 🖕

reply to the thread by afrodykee:

Also people forget that there are a ton of nonbinary and trans lesbians.

And a lot of the time, the very same people who are concerned about where all the butch lesbians are going are the same ones being transphobic and insisting nonbinary and trans lesbians are men.

quote tweet of afrodykee by butchanarchy:

Also this! In fact, I am one of them!

reply to the thread by JulianSpannagel:

Sounds like a really nice approach to identities, thx for sharing :)

reply to the thread by DaniPurdes:

Plus you get butch trans women like me, so it evens out or whatever.

reply to DaniPurdes by captgeocat:

💯

/end image ID]

[martian-martian-martian]

i am begging y’all, trans and cis alike, to stop justifying your gender identity exclusively with archaic gender stereotypes because it ostracizes gendernonconforming people of literally every gender identity.

and before I go on, please know that terfs can suck an entire dick and choke on it. this is not about you and the world would be better if you cryptofascists didnt exist.

if you say you are a guy, you are. end of story.

anyway, im seeing some rough stuff from some of my peers in the queer community and please please i am begging you, be aware of what you are saying.

“as a child i played with trucks and liked wearing pants. later i learned i was trans.” is a fine personal statement to make. important even, spreading awareness is valuable and saves lives.

“if you played with trucks as an afab child, or (more commonly) liked this character or hobby, HMM, CHECK URSELF SWEETIE.” This is bs. I recognize the need to find community among people with similar experiences, but this kind of thinking has its roots in gender stereotype that we are decades past.

Gender roles/stereotypes are NOT gender identity; they can be associated with it, they can inspire it, they are part of it. But they do not define the entire experience of gender.

a young afab child liking trucks or Captain America IS gender nonconforming because standard current societal gender norms are a cishet defined binary.

but it is not any indication of that child’s actual own gender identity.

Two children can both be born afab, both play with trucks and like superheroes and cut their hair short.

One can grow up a cis woman.

One can grow up a trans man.

Neither of their identities were a choice or influenced by ‘nurture’, which is the subtle implication of these harmful statements.

Moreover, someone liking things a trans person likes, and them NOT being trans, doesn’t make the trans person any less trans???

Trans people are not a result of their environment or stimuli, this is conservative ideology and it is BUNK. Period.

Correlation of what trans people grew up with is being mistaken for causation, even WITHIN queer spaces.

One of the great mysteries of life I had to learn personally is that someone could go through the exact same experiences I had in every way; like all the same things, do all the same hobbies… and still be cis and straight. Or be a completely different identity than my own.

Important note: in the past, the concept of ‘girls can be tomboys!’ (or, as terfs constantly tout: girls can just be butch!!) has been actively weaponized against trans people, but the problem is, it is rooted in a fundimental truth. But the important thing to keep in mind is sometimes they’re NOT tomboys, they’re boys, and that is also a real and genuine experience.

Both concepts can be true, and neither experience deserves to be invalidated or seen as incorrect.

As my friend, a fellow nonbinary wlw put it, gender identity is such a complex concept and is as unexplainable as the human condition so any attempt to nail it down will be inherently flawed and subjective.

But fighting the idea of ‘nurture conversion’ of trans people, and the idea of binary gender stereotypes is very important.

[rosalesbeausderholle]

you could genuinely be rehabilitated from your bigotry and that is so fucking sad. the other terves do not care that women in other countries campaigned against lgbt protection laws. they did that in the USA as well. and the uk… this is a goal. you are in a cult

Oh please

I'm not a terf, I'm not even a radfem, I've spend a lot of time criticizing radfems and adjacents and I don't need any kind of 'rehabilitation' much less by you.

I'm not some confused little child, I'm a grown woman and I know what my beliefs are.

Yes, of course I support LGBT rights legislation, I'm LGBT, and of course I oppose conservatives, I hate them. And, of course, I'm against transphobia, I have trans people who are important to me and I know trans people are very discriminated against. And the more I learnt, the more I realized that there's things that are too complex for me to say that something is always in a specific way. That's a very ignorant point of view, and I'm a researcher, we must be comfortable with ambiguity.

That means that I don't personally have anything against people undergoing physical transition, I'm only worried about doctors not informing people well enough about side effects and selling them unrealistic ideas about the results.

It also means that I can't make absolute statements about what the life of all trans people is like and the specific ways in which the social construct of gender affects their experiences, ie whether their experiences are more man-like or woman-like. Everything is always more complex than that, including gender. I'm not talking only about personal identification here, I'm talking about experiences that come from the mix of identification, presentation, physical factors, being out or not, how other people treat them etc. These all make up gender and what gender one is treated as and effectively lives as, it's not purely a matter of choice.

However, complexity inherently means that not everything is good and perfect, because perfect means simple. So, of course, there's aspects of modern LGBT activism and mainstream feminism that I disagree with, I think modern leftist progressive movements have a lot of unchecked misogyny within them, a huge critical gap when it comes to analyzing women's lives and I think there's a huge difference between saying sex is complex and refusing to acknowledge its existence and what that means altogether, which is just not wise. I also believe everyone in general is a lot more gender essentialist than we think, in the sense that they believe that there's something natural and wired in our brains about gender roles, which is simply not true.

This of course spills over to the LGBT community, where you have some people who wholeheartedly believe that wearing a skirt or trousers says something about the state of your soul (I don't believe in souls) and who genuinely cannot comprehend the idea of a butch woman existing. Or, they do, in theory, because they understand that and also drag queens well enough but then many young masc women do report people asking for their pronouns all the time after they've stated them, as if 'she/her' wasn't a good enough answer when 'you dress like that'. This is not everyone, by all means, but there is a trend of gender roles becoming more and more entrenched, both in wider society and in LGBT communities and yes, of course I criticize that, it's misogyny. Saying that gender roles are bullshit is not saying anything wrong about trans people. At be the same time, I've been the victim of very strong homophobia by other LGBT people and of course, I will criticize that, that's fucked up.

That's the extent of our disagreement. I'm against misogyny in all its forms even when it comes from my own community and the same goes for homophobia.

Yes, I do reblog from radfems sometimes, because few other people talk about the same problems I do have, precisely because when they start to do it people like you treat them like monsters (even if they're trans) and start telling them that they're in a cult 😑. Groupthink tendencies, overall toxicity and anti-intellectualism are rampant both within your circles and within radfem circles. Me having a critical mind and being able to agree and disagree with different people on different points is precisely the opposite of the problem.

So no, I do not need to be 'rehabilitated' you condescending ass, in any case you do if you can't take a random woman being just so slightly critical of the very same LGBT and leftist communities she belongs to.

[feathered-serpents]

What even is bisexual lesbian and why did twitter got worked up about it??

Bisexual lesbian is, from my understanding, kind of a label that is different for everyone. For some people it means lesbian who also dates non-binary people, for some it means someone who prefers women so strongly they identify greatly with the word lesbian but have had very few instances of being attracted towards other genders. For some they identify with one label in one way and the other in another way (for example: Lesbian as a gender/experience label, bisexual as a sexuality. Vice versa. It's whatever)

Twitter got up in arms about it because of three reasons (that I saw the most often)

It's transphobic

Lesbians can't like men/non-women

It is biphobic/lesbiphobic

Number 1 is referring to some people using bisexual-lesbian to mean they were a lesbian attracted to trans women AS WELL AS cis women. This is obviously transphobic as you're implying that trans women are somehow not "real women" and attraction to them deserves an entire label of its own. So that's shitty. But it's worth noting there is no proof this is where the label originated and I find it kind of hard to swallow an argument that boils down to "Some people who use this label SUCK so, therefore, this label SUCKS" when that's true for literally every queer identity that ever exists. Queer people are people, sometimes people suck. There is no queer label that proves "shitty person" or "good person." We've had that discussion before and it's Bad

Number 2 is kind of. Incredibly online. Very obvious that these people have not researched any of their own history and would probably tell a bisexual woman she can't use terms like "butch, fem, dyke" etc. Historically, lesbian just meant "woman attracted to other women." That's it. It didn't have to be exclusively women, it was just ANY attraction to women. This makes this argument feel weirdly ignorant and would probably make a 70-year-old queer person look at you like you were insane

And finally number 3. Which reeks of virtue signaling. Because you will never really get anyone to explain to you how it's these things. The most common sort of explanation you get is "clearly this person is uncomfortable identifying with one over the other because of internalized biphobia and lesbiphobia, so they just use both without having to pick" and I just. I don't like it. I don't like telling people what they're feeling. If someone has picked a label, I don't understand how you could feel so entitled to this stranger's psyche to decide they're doing it for the wrong reasons. You don't KNOW them. It is never your business how someone else chooses to identify

Number 3 also often hand in hand with "it harms real lesbians/real bisexuals" and by GOD does that infuriate me. "Real lesbians" is the most terfy thing I've ever seen in my life and I saw people on twitter who claimed to hate terfs use it without any self-awareness whatsoever. And "harms" them? How? HOW are they harming them? Because I promise you, some twitter girl identifying as a bisexual-lesbian is NOT ever going to do anywhere near the same amount of harm as the republican lawmakers who have made it their life's MISSION to take every strand of human rights we've been given away from us.

And if you're thinking that the existence of bisexual-lesbians was going to make some frat dude utterly convinced that he can cure lesbians with his penis feel like he suddenly has a chance. Newsflash. That is not the bisexual-lesbians fault. That dude does not see women has capable of making choices that could possibly exclude him. That is ENTIRELY his problem. You're looking at someone doing something heinous and instead of punishing him, you're looking at some completely random individual and going "See what you've done? You enabler"

Look, bisexual, lesbian, they're both beautiful words that deserve to be used by whoever wants to use them. The person using these labels probably fought for YEARS to become comfortable with them enough to associate them with themselves. I have not met a single queer person who did not fight that fight, you do not, under any circumstances, have the right to take that from them. Lesbian is a gorgeous word that means something different to everyone, bisexual is just as gorgeous and is just as personal. You do not have the right to take them away just because you don't understand its personal meaning to someone else

TLDR; Being queer is a deeply personal experience and queer labels are beautiful things. You have no right to tell anyone they can't use a label they want. Queer exclusion is always bad

[adomoda]

@ihhfhonao3 tried to "call me out" by reposting my page to their blog, calling me a bigot etc. yet when I responded to their post with logic and explained that as a gay man I do not accept an ideology created by pe do John Money, they deleted my comments and responded with infantile and massochistic messages. This is so typical of the left, their hypocrisy, and their love of censorship.

I do not intend to harm any individual, however I will not hesitate to call bullshit on an ideology that is absolutely harming people. Its harming children and young people, its harming women, its harming LGB people. I have been "radicalized" by my first hand experience of narcissistic trans individuals, and my observation of the interesting correlation between governments, and corporations promotion of the "progressive" pride flag and all things trans. I absolutely believe there is a nefarious agenda.

Have there been "gender non confirming" people forever!? Absolutely. But they havent used drugs and surgery to ruin their bodies. It was only ever a very small number of people that were so non conforming as to be "cross dressing." Someone told me the other day in all seriousness that they didnt think men should wear shorts. Peoples ideas about conformity and gender are all over the map. You can wear whatever the f you want to now... just dont tell children that they need to become sterile to "be their true selves."

Yes gender separate from sex is a construct. Its a normative set of traits. However these things are not at all concrete. To conflate ones biology with the clothes one likes to wear is NORMATIVE CAPITULATION! So why are the supposed rebels perpetuating NORMATIVE STEREOTYPES!?

Its ludicrous and is evidence that these people are actually weak minded victims of a massive psychological operation fomented many decades ago. These same people will say thats just a "conspiracy theory" and yet believe that "THE PATRIARCHY MUST BE SMASHED," yet want to give children's bodies and minds over to Pharma Corp and Rockefeller medicine!?

It is a psy op.

There are autogynaphilics, and there are gay men with internalized homophobia. These are mental states of confusion. They are not lifestyles to be celebrated or something to take pride in.

These people are not part of the LGB. They are hostile to everything that LGB is. Drag queens and transvestites are not transexual. You are not born in the wrong body. You are not too "butch" to be a woman, or to "femme" to be a man. Gender separate from sex is just a concept, a lens, a made up thing like unicorns. We can talk about them, but it doesnt make them real.

This is a nuanced conversation that must occur before its all out war and were literally murdering each other in the street. Thats what the puppet masters want. They want chaos. They want us hating each other. I dont hate people, but I do hate lies. And I will stand up to lies and liars till my very last breath.

[cruelsister-moved2]

something I want to thank you for is when some months ago you posted something like we don't need to analyze our lack of attraction towards men and this ask was prompted by your recent post as well. Last year emotionally was the worst for me, I was really depressed. All because I was so hang up on trying to figure out if I liked men, I had always this "what if" in my mind. So I had a coworker who asked me out and I said yes, we exchanged numbers and everything. But then the realization that the point of this was to have like frequent conversation going on and then maybe it could lead to being physical sent me into a spiral, literally lost my appetite trouble sleeping crying randomly etc kinda extreme reaction. I sent him a message saying we won't meet anymore. I always had this reaction starting in high school whenever a guy showed interest on me, hypothetical scenario of being in a relationship with a man made me feel sick. But I always excused those feelings with "maybe he's not the right person, I will meet a guy I'm comfortably with". But anyways, all of that has been dealt with. It was so eye opening that I don't need to understand my lack of attraction to men and just focus on what makes me happy and that is not being with men. The other side of this is feeling I wasn't a lesbian because I felt nothing seeing feminine women. But when I saw a butch or masc women I knew I was like instant "heart eyes"!!. So that's the feeling I'm going to hold on to now. <3<3<3

oh wow thank u anon this breaks my heart to know u went through smth like this but i'm also so happy you're in a better place now! it's so frustrating bc dating men is really just the default setting for women and ppl dont know how to question that... it's also so true when ur not really into fem women it becomes harder bc you feel like it has to be comparative & so even if ur aware that dating men isn't right for u, u feel like u Have to because you don't find anything else more attractive. literally like dating men is a PE class and u need a note from the lesbian council to get out of it....

That's one reason why im so keen to insist that regardless of sexuality, you think abt dating men in its own right & decide if you actually want that. There are so many people for whom discovering their attraction to women is a significant years-long process, and most of them spend that time in unnecessary confusion and distress bc they're also trying to hyper-analyse their discomfort towards men at the same time. But also honestly I think there are fully heterosexual women who are also just dating men.. for the sake of it and getting no joy from it & potentially getting a lot of pain too. I almost feel worst for those ppl, bc the way out for a lot of us is we start dating women and realise from how different it is that dating men wasn't right for us. but every time a straight woman is like "I wish I was a lesbian" they usually mean "I wish I was Allowed to not date men".

it also comes down to the essentialisation of labels, so we feel like you intrinsically Are something on the inside and that messes with how we look at attraction, esp as women. it's actually so much less complicated when you just think about what you want from life, and if your experiences end up fitting into a pattern you can apply a label to it. like i think there's also a lot of bi women, and a lot of women who constantly torture themselves and flip btwn the labels lesbian and bi, because they KNOW with certainty that they like women, but they can't figure out if their tangle of messy, traumatised, ingrained feelings towards men constitute Desire or not & it breaks my heart because................ it literally doesn't matter. you are literally free to do whatever you want. it does not matter what exactly u feel towards men, let alone WHY, it just matters what u want to do n who u want to be with.

[x31043]

I guess im just bothered that when youre born an called a woman youre then constantly told to shut upforever,but when the opposite is true youre constantly encouraged to speak up.Youre ridiculed for not doing it, but to me thats different than being hurt or even killed FOR doing it. That means that childhood sucks. Adolescence sucks. Youre really in a place of forced subservience for your whole existence. You have to break out of that so hard. Youre physically smaller. You are trained to ignore yourself until you are broken. You are trained to be something that someone uncaring will shove themselves in and take, take over. You are literally raised to be an object to be used and discarded. That is UNIVERSAL. I know some people epxerience that without being born & assigned women, but for those of us who are this is literally a universal experience. You are fucking made to be a fucking sex robot and a servant and an agreeable nodding nothing whose opinions dont matter and nothing else. You are TRAINED in social cues and spend your whole life noticing every little thing and forcibly keeping all your opinions inside. Everyone should be lifting our voices up!!! Trans people should be screaming up at the sky not at others to keep their voices down!!

This literally makes me want to scream. Women are not treated better than men. Why would trans men be treated better than trans women? Where are you seeing that, where??? They have SPECIFIC, DIFFERENT experienes and also many that are the same! Because its a fucking spectrum, remember that discourse? When youre trans it doesnt work all neatly in two categories like that. I look like a trans women. Many trans women look like me. Many of us are non-binary and our gender is basically the same regardless of how we were brought up. Why can you ask me my genitals now and if i dont answer i get canceled. what the FUCK is that. Why has it become like this. It started as “our experiences are different, we need a space to talk about the ways they are not the same.” and now its-- disclose whether youre dmab or dfab to be a good ally to trans women. We have to talk about it ALL THE TIME. WE have to go based off genital differences to determine how you are privileged or not. That’s not the fucking way to move our community forward or to connect as individulas. And Guess what?? Trans women don’t even want it!!!

TME is a term that trans women made for VERY SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES. It can be applied to SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES which require a very nuanced and exact language. I may be fucked up for saying this but There are times when trans mascs and butches face a speciifc, different type of transphobia to trans women, too. And they deserve a space to talk about it, too, while still DEFENDING trans fems from terfs. This seems fucking obvious to me. when its white ppl it all pales against transphobic racism anyway.

And that’s the long and short of it, bc trans women arent the ones I see taking about TME. They arent the ones actively claiming they have worse epxeriences with gender and dysphoria. Thats all like cute Nonbinary transmascs typically who are white telling me my experience was a lot easier than others in my community. And to me thats a part of this fucked up socialization--always talk youself down, and hold others like you accountable for reaching beyond their capacity. Other DFAB people telling me to shut up about my transness is fucking ironic in a way that doesn’t make me want to laugh. You were told to shut up your whole life, so now you’re going to put that on me?? Why are we doing this in the first place then?? WHy if not to reclaim the voice that was stolen from us?!

My genitals are thought of as absolutely inconceivable. The 20 pounds of weight on my chest is thought of as a dirty thing I literally need to press and constrain into tight and uncomfortable shapes or I will be violated when I go outside. Do you have any idea what that does to a kid?  I bet you know what it does to an adult. It’s a very similar experience! We need a space to talk about this without being called terfs or told to check our TME privilege. I am going to one day be a man with a beard in a dress. Whats not clicking?

[butch-bakugo]

Honestly, part of my gender and sexuality journey has been accepting myself as a mlw transman(even though im bi and also transmascfem due to intersexuality) and trying not to take anything too personally. Masculinity and lgbtism are seen as opposites so masculine lgbt get left out of the convo or are forcibly feminized. Its this mindset within the community, tied to its progressivism(i dont blame them for this assumption but its not true), that feminity is progressive and masculinity is regressive. This mindset has hurt lots of masculine lgbt pple, most notably butch lesbians, masc trans men and bi men.

Femme lesbians are all thats ever shown while butch lesbians have their identities sanitized to fit a different narrative. Feminine cis men get center stage for "really sticking it to the patriarchy!!" Just for wearing nail polish or a skirt one time while butch women get tossed out and ignored and called ugly not only by cishet men but also those within the community. Feminized mlm trans men are perfered because their veiwed as cishet woman-lite and trans women are centered no matter if they are with a woman or a man but some people never even consider that masc mlw trans men exist. Bi men never end up with women and often their bisexuality is erased due to people never mentioning it, leading to them being called gay(mostly present in fandom characizations. See kirishima from mha, he has canon moments of liking women and men).

Theres this idea spread wide through out the community that any man in a relationship with a woman is shitty and abusive and automatically using his privilege over her. I can speak from experience on that. But whats never mentioned is that they only ever mean cis men. Cishet men are the enemy your eyeing, not transhet men or other mlw transmascs. They arent hurting women, they were women. But when none of you ever specify that you mean cis men, trans men arnt gonna know that they are excluded from your hateful shit. Same as trans women arnt gonna know that they arnt included in conversations about the shittyness some cis women enact.

Women loving men is empowered in bisexual spaces, why cant at least trans men loving women in trans context be empowered? We dont hurt the women were with. We are just as oppressed and disenfranchised as them. Theres no power dynamics in those relationships. Trans men loving cis women is equal, trans men loving trans women is equal, trans men loving other trans men is equal. The only inequality is when trans men are with cis men.

Please start specifying in your shit that you mean cis men. That or out yourself as a person who dosent actively consider trans men to be men or admit you sincerely thought trans men were just like cis men, we we fucking arnt. Im tired of looking for transandrophobes, be open about it already.