#this isn't like a 'i hate meta' btw

[milktian]

the pain between wanting to play candace w/ arlecchino, cause i barely use candace but have her at c6, and Xingqiu being a better option for now

my candace isn't like.... built properly so i still wanna try once she's prepped but im so tired of using xingqiu in every comp QwQ i managed to avoid using xingqiu, bennett, and xiangling for so so long but maaaaan.

[moon-andstardust]

That scene. That scene right there is soo telling. We've known since the beginning that Blitz has commitment issues, but we're only now starting to see just how deep they ran and just how much they affect his relationships.

I feel like these words, "I love you," trigger blaring alarms in his head, a panic reaction. Remember what happened the first time he dared to love someone? The first time he tried to confess his love?

Oh, nothing big.

He just permanently disfigured his crush, killed his mother and ruined his sister's life*.

This accident, this event lies in the core of 90% of his issues and problems.

This is why he runs the second things get serious. This is why he dumps Verosica the second she says she loves him.

In Blitz's eyes, his love is destructive. His love only ruins. So if he cuts ties before things get too complicated, maybe the other person won't get even more hurt, even more damaged. It's a twisted and fucked up desire to protect not only himself and his heart but also his loved ones**. It has turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy and a never-ending cycle: the more he pushes and pushes and pushes, the more people push back. Because no one likes getting hurt. No one likes having their heart broken. And when these people finally snap, when they've had enough of Blitz's bullshit? He can point and say, see? I told you so! They are better off without me!

Blitz's cruelty doesn't stem from outright malice. It stems from Blitz being deeply broken and damaged.

Before he can start a stable romantic relationship of any kind, he needs to forgive himself for that accident. Otherwise, that deeply rooted self-loathing will continue to get in the way and cause him to repeatedly self-sabotage. And he has to do it himself, Verosika can't do it for him, M&M can't do it for him, Stolas can't do it for him.

The good news is that he is already taking the necessary steps. Making up with Fizz: a step in the right direction. Genuinely apologizing to Stolas and Verosika: a step in the right direction. Letting go of Stolas, realizing that his actions have serious consequences on his loved ones, owning up to his mistakes: all steps in the right direction. I don't know about ya'll but I'm eager to see where this is going and what happens next.

*it was an accident. Wrong place, wrong time, but Blitz sure as hell doesn't believe that.

**I belive this last bit is fully subconscious and Blitz isn't much aware of it. He says it himself: he buries all of it deep in his mind, avoids thinking about it at all costs

[necrotic-nephilim]

@sasheneskywalker i love when you enable me to ramble about things because oh my god do i have thoughts.

so recently, i made a post discussing the phenomena of DC x DP and DC x MLB crossovers and why they exist and part of that post was discussing how largely speaking, at least half, if not more of the Batfamily fandom doesn't read the comics. if they interact with canon DC material, it's adaptations that are their own sequestered universes and oftentimes not remotely comic accurate or seeking to be. the most obvious example is the Young Justice cartoon. i'm adding a cut to this post because it just got so long i'm so sorry.

a lot of times, when people are discussing the "why" of this oversaturation of fanon-only fandom, they blame Wayne Family Adventures. and i think, to a point, i agree WFA is responsible for a boom in this fandom. but as someone who's been in the fandom long before we had WFA, to me it's the other way around. WFA was DC's way of meeting the demand for this easy-to-get-into, easy-to-consume content about the Batfamily that predicates itself on the comics just enough to be vaguely the same characters, but has a more sitcom, slice-of-life sort of vibe so DC could profit off of this section of the fanbase that otherwise wasn't consuming its primary material. and well, it's definitely worked. not only that, but i have a weird theory that the decline in the MCU also led to the rise in the Batfamily fandom. when you consider the fan content that made the MCU popular within fandom, it's that 2012 "they all live in Avengers Tower and Thor is eating poptarts and Clint is in the vents and there are movie nights every Friday" sort of vibe. those were the fics that were a hallmark of the fandom. and as the MCU has strayed from well... quality content in general, but specifically well-thought-out crossover content where characters can have their own arcs but also exist in a wider story where they clearly care about each other, that fandom was sort of homeless. so where do you go, if you like a superhero found family where you can have villains for angst but also stick them all in one big family-like home for silly crack and have a plethora of options for gay ships? well. you go to the Batfamily. if you write a crack/fluff Batfamily genfic with silly vibes and low stakes instead of say, a fic about a very specific comic issue even if it's a popular comic, you're *going* to get more traction for the former. because the fanbase largely just isn't reading the comics.

and i feel... complicated about this. because on one hand, Don't Like Don't Read has been a tenet of my fandom experience. i'm very pro-fandom and that includes fandom content i don't like. and to an extent, i do think this sort of should apply to Batfamily fanon. i enjoy having my moments with other comic purists, giggling over exceptionally painful OOC headcanons or even facepalming in pain over some content but it is on me to not interact with that content. you don't make fandom a better place by being hostile to fans who engage with canon in ways you don't approve of. and frankly? we as comic readers are not going to get non-comic fans to read the comics by being asshats to them. no one is going to want to pick up any comic if we get a superiority complex about it. and also, i feel like we're all lying to ourselves a little bit insisting comics are so, so easy to get into. they're not. we can just all agree, they're really not. i've been single-handedly helping my sister get into comics, specifically Wonder Woman and no matter how simple i make it, i watch her get frustrated trying to understand what pre-Crisis and post-Crisis and New-52 and Flashpoint and all these things mean and what a retcon vs a reboot is and what a Crisis Event is and what the hell Diana's current backstory even *is*. sure, you can give someone a beginner list of comics to start with and slowly dip their toes in the water but sooner or later, *something* is going to confuse them. comics as a medium straight up aren't going to be everyone's cup of tea. and if someone *just* wants to read silly fluffy fanfiction about the Batfamily, i can't entirely begrudge them for not wanting to take the hours and hours out of their day to understand this medium. it's not an accessible medium to get into. "read this and this, but this run is out of print and this run wasn't collected in trades at all but also make sure you read that event in order and this is a good comic but the backstory in it is retconned and you *have* to read this it's so important but it's also really bad because the author kind of sucks" sounds. ridiculous for someone who like. just wants to read some stuff about Nightwing. sometimes, we all make reading comics sort of sound like a chore, not a hobby.

so my point is, i do extend some grace to Batfamily fanon for existing. i think my biggest gripe is, as i said in my other post, misuse of tags (if you're not creating content about comics, maybe you don't need the comics fandom tag on Ao3, just the all media types umbrella tag) and my far bigger gripe: when panels are taken out of context to support fanon only headcanons. if i could impart *anything* onto the Batfamily fandom as a comic fan it'd be this: if you haven't *read* the comic, don't spread the panel. if you don't even know what comic it's *from*, don't spread the panel. it's fine to use comic panels to discuss your headcanons, but so often i see someone spreading a comic panel from a comic they haven't read, and when asked where it's from, they can't source it. a silly example that comes to mind is a post going around, taking a panel where Dick, in his internal monologue goes "here comes the sun. do do do do." and the post is claiming it's from him getting buried alive. when that panel comes from Nightwing (1996) #140, and he gets buried alive in Nightwing (1996) #127, two completely different moments frankensteined together. if you're going to not read the comics, that's completely fine, but unless you're sure of the source and the context, panels shouldn't be spread around. i'm sick of this specifically happening to Red Robin (2009), with ppl claiming Tim has totally killed people because he blew up some of Ra's' bases, when those panels within context, make it clear he gave everyone time to escape. and in a later arc in that very comic, Tim grapples with the idea of murdering Captain Boomerang, and *specifically chooses not to*, because he doesn't agree with murder, even against the person who has hurt him the most. if you'd like to write fanfiction where Tim is pro-murder and has done some sketch things, i'm totally on board and would probably like to read it. but there's no need to pretend it's canon from a few panels you saw out of context.

beyond that, i think it's not *entirely* correct to say that fanon is harmless. whenever i see very WFA-positive posts, they often default to the argument that WFA is fun and silly, and comic fans are killjoys for not liking it. which. i think is complicated because the issue is, WFA and fanon don't exist in a vacuum. if you like WFA power to you, i don't think it's the worst thing ever, but i do think it's degrading to these characters because honestly? they feel incompetent in the webtoon. it's one thing if WFA was solely a slice-of-life sort of deal, just having silly episodes where Bruce is taking on a PTA mom or they're all fighting for the last cookie. but when WFA attempts to take on more serious plots with these characters, it *fundamentally* falls flat in understanding them. i get it, Bruce comforting Jason having a panic attack because a noise reminded him of the crowbar felt cute in a microcosm, but i'm so serious when i say that storyline destroyed how like. half of this fandom understands Jason Todd's relationship to his trauma. it doesn't understand how he reacts when he's triggered, what coping mechanisms he seeks out, and how he would handle Bruce comforting him. even if i can believe for a brief moment Jason *would* be triggered by something like that, him running and trying to hide and then getting a hug from Bruce to make it okay is just. painful. WFA needs everything to be wrapped up in a nice, neat little bow. so even when it starts to tackle interesting concepts, it makes them fall flat with its need to be soft, low stakes, hurt/comfort. there was a two-parter episode that dealt with the complicated mutual hatred/jealousy between Tim and Damian that *almost* really interested me because for once, it felt like the webtoon wanted to explore canon messy dynamics. but of course, it had to be fixed with one conversation and a hug. you don't mend the *years* of issues these characters have like that. WFA isn't in character because these characters are hyperbole cartoonified versions of themselves to fit within the medium and be a cute happy family.

because that right there, is the crux of it. the Batfamily fanon seeks to simplify the Batfamily and force them into a nuclear family. there are so many fantastic posts on here discussing how the nuclear family-ification of the Batfam is eroding decades worth of complex histories so i won't go too far into that. but what i will say is that there's this need, in the Batfamily fandom, for the Batfamily to exist as a unit. they are a *family*. (honestly i think calling it the Batfamily is a misnomer and has been for years but we're in too deep now.) they exist to each other first, and any teams or friends they have come secondary to this family unit. you can *specifically* see this demonstrated in what headcanons are becoming popular these days. i have an entire lengthy meta in my drafts about how i *loathe* the "the Batfamily meets the Justice League" genre of fanfic because it makes no *sense*. in order to have this genre of fic exist, you must operate under the assumption that no one in the League, or adjacent to the League, knows the Batfamily exists and are thus utterly shocked to discover Batman has kids. and to make *that* work, you have to strip *every single Batfamily member* of such important dynamics and friendships so you can lock them all in Gotham for their whole lives. Dick can't have the Titans, Tim can't have Young Justice, Duke & Cass can't have the Outsiders, Jason can't have the Outlaws, Damian can't have the Supersons, Babs can't have the Birds of Prey, and so on. because if they had these relationships, they would be known to the League. the Batfamily fandom doesn't care about this, it's just "silly fanfiction", it's not trying to be serious. but how can you say you like Dick Grayson as a character if you don't understand the Titans *are* his family? at some points of his life, moreso than the Batfamily even is. it is constantly repeated to us in most comics with Dick how much the Titans mean to him. he *needs* them to be who he is. the same extends to every other Batfamily member, most of which have been full League members at this point. but in fanon, that doesn't matter. the Batfamily are a sequestered unit first, and all of those side relationships are secondary and easy to toss away, if it makes your fanfic work better.

and because they have to be a unit first, you have these forced relationships that dump years of actual canon material for the sake of making them get along. the Batfamily fandom has its favorites and well. it's no secret it's usually the boys. Jason and Tim by *far* stand out as fandom faves so, their dynamic is a heavily explored one. it does matter that in canon they don't tend to get along and especially don't see each other as family. what matters is that you can push dynamics onto them. and so fanon gets all twisted up about which Robin Tim actually idolized as a kid (Dick) and what member of the Batfamily is pro-murder but still an older sibling figure to him and looks out for him (Helena, or if you want the dynamic of once tried to harm Tim but they've reconciled, Jean-Paul) in favor of who's the most popular. Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian are always going to be the standouts for popularity, but it's specifically Jason and Tim who are getting fanonized the most. and that's because really, we don't have much canon content of Tim that *isn't* the comics. for Dick you've got Young Justice (tv), for Damian you've got the DCAMU, for Jason you've sort of got the Under The Red Hood movie, but Tim sort of lingers in this limbo. (yes, he's in Young Justce (tv) and Titans (live action) but in neither is he the main character nor given much depth) so, he gets a *lot* projected onto him and has become fanonized. and even with Jason's animated movies, you don't see him interact with Tim, so people build it from the ground up how they want to see it, disregarding of canon comics. i think it's what makes him so popular in the first place- he's malleable into whatever you want or need him to be.

and of course, the fanon ignores other characters in the Batfamily it doesn't know about. i feel like you could create a tier list of Batfamily characters by their popularity, going from the fandom main characters: Tim, Jason, Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Damian. to the underrated: Steph, Duke, Babs, Cass. to the forgotten about unless they're convenient for a story: Kate, the Foxes, Helena Wayne, Carrie, Selina, Harper Row, Maps, Minhkhoa Khan. to the absolutely unknown: Helena Bertinelli, Jean-Paul Valley, Onyx Adams, the Clovers, Julia Pennyworth. it's not lost on me that the ignored characters tend to be women and people of color. which is both a canon and fanon problem, DC will continue adding interesting characters to the Batfamily, play with them for a few years, then drop them to default to the "Batboys" again. and it's a vicious cycle of the fandom only caring about the "Batboys", and thus people entering the fandom via fanon osmosis won't have content about the other characters, therefore, they won't be interested in those characters enough to create it, and it's just this ouroboros consuming itself, no matter how much canon content we have of these other characters. and it's ridiculous just how large the Batfamily is becoming because of this, which is why i'm a pre-Flashpoint fan, because then the Batfamily was contained enough to actually feel like a family with every character having nuances relationships with each other, but i digress because those thoughts could be their own post.

and the thing about fanon is it doesn't exist in a vacuum. DC has started turning the comics to accommodate for what fans are asking for, because fans will beg and beg for content they're not going to consume. Tim Drake: Robin had Tim as a coffee drinker because that's the fanon accepted headcanon. and the resolution of the recent Gotham War arc was for Bruce to buy this new manor for everyone to move in and call him. nevermind that most of these characters have their own homes and have zero reason to be moving in with Bruce. Tim had his marina in Tim Drake: Robin, Dick has Bludhaven, Cass and Steph have their little side of town in Batgirls (2022), and so on. these characters are being forced together as a unit, as one big happy family living together, to appease what non-comic fans want and it's damaging comic relationships. Robin: Knight Terrors saw Jason and Tim team up and working together, which i've seen varying opinions on but i personally despised. their interactions made zero sense for any of their canon history, but it appeases them being this close sibling relationship that fanon acts like they are. also the fears they faced in their respective knight terrors didn't make sense for either character and *only* worked as a moment of bringing them together so they could reassure each other and have this weird dreamscape bonding moment. the canon is bending itself to the will of fanon rather than building on the pre-existing complex relationships. Tim barely even gets along with his most important team in Dark Crisis: Young Justice because it seems the only important relationships the Batfamily can have is with each other. and when we do see them outside of the Batfamily, it only seems to be to relive the glory days like with World's Finest: Teen Titans, instead of developing them as they currently exist. this isn't recent in the comics, it feels like you can trace it back to the New-52, but it does feel a *lot* worse over the recent years. WFA is fine when it exists in its own bubble, but the simple truth is, DC content never exists on its own. the adaptations will reflect back onto the comics. (the damage the Young Justice cartoon has done to some characters should honestly be studied) and so it does frustrate me a bit when fanon-only or adaptation-only fans act like we're being nothing but killjoys for being frustrated with this. since they don't read the comics, they don't see how the comics are suffering as a result of this.

people argue about what's out of character for the comics they don't even read. i'm sorry, but "bad dad Bruce" is consistently canon. that man is just kind of shitty. when you take someone who has the drive he has, who has this need for the Mission first, who needs a teenager in spandex next to him to keep him off the ledge, that guy is sort of going to be a shitty father figure. he just is. not on purpose or with malice, but when you compare him to any other dad in a big DC family, he sure takes the cake. it's why characters like Oliver Queen tend to *really* fucking hate Bruce for how he treats his kids. Bruce loves fiercely, but he doesn't do well with putting that love first. and his love is a controlling one, he is very particular about controlling how others in the Batfamily are "allowed" to operate. it's what drives the wedge between him and Dick, it's why Steph is never a true daughter to him. (besides the reason of her needing to be a love interest to Tim first, anyway-) i've never understood the massive outcry of people reacting to Bruce kinda being shitty in comics they're not reading. there are some moments that get ridiculously OOC with how cartoonishly evil he is (the whole Gotham War arc and that... complicated mess with Jason) but largely if you want sitcom loving nuclear father Bruce, you have to accept that is a fanon thing, not a canon one. the Batfamily being a nuclear family in *general* is fanon. most of the "Batkids" don't actually see Bruce in a particularly fatherly light and begging for moments where he calls them his kids or they call him dad outside of incredibly specific circumstances is just OOC.

it's getting harder and harder to exist peacefully in this fandom it feels like, if you don't comply to the standard fanon has set. i'm happy people are having fun with their blorbos, even if in ways i dislike, but that "harmless fandom fun" does ripple it's way back to canon, eventually. so i end up pretty tangled with my feelings because are fans at fault for DC making these poor decisions? probably not, but it certainly feels like an unfortunate cause-and-effect situation whether at the end of the day, nobody is happy. and of course, i know some fanon-only fans are striving to be more canon accurate and care about canon dynamics more than others, but for them it's always going to be an uphill battle with the above-mentioned out-of-context panels thrown around and ever-pervasive fanon overtaking anything that's truly seeking to be canon compliant. so really, it sometimes feels like we're all losing.

[mollysunder]

I think a lot of the criticism that's been lobbed at people who were shocked at the fact that Vi would become an enforcer is unfair. I think it's unreasonable to ask casual fans to read disparately connected lore stories that have no solid timeline to understand a show that itself is an introduction to League of Legends lore. At the end of the day it's just people asking for a plot point to make sense before seeing the actual development, and that's a valid response!

League lore has the luxury of being video game lore that mostly functions as set dressing. Most of the lore in League interesting ideas that happen just because and not much else.

Most of the published stories for the champions in Arcane are just really brief snap shots of the characters and that MIGHT connect to a cinematic, a comic released by some third party, or promotional art released on one of their social media platforms, which doesn't mean those stories won't be retconned... twice (*cough*Viktor*cough*).

I think there's a more interesting conversation about how League lore has changed in Arcane so greatly, that some people could assume that Vi's would too, and again, that's fair. Arcane largely diverged from the source material. Jayce was never a councilor, never had any institutional power, and certainly didn't invent hextech in his lore.

Vi and Jinx were solidly in their mid twenties, while Ekko was squarely a teenager aged 16 or so. Viktor wasn't disabled or dealing with an ableist society, and the hexcore was in no way this important to him. Piltover was literally on top of Zaun. And lets be honest, champions like Jinx didn't really have any in-depth characterization, most stories with her are about people reacting TO HER, not about who she is.

It's better to think about Arcane and the characters in it beyond what League has given them so far. It's no surprise that a lot of people who think Mel died in the rocket blast are those that treat Arcane as the roadmap to PnZ's "status quo" in the lore, because Mel doesn't exist there. To me, it's worse to avoid thinking more expansively about the story just because it doesn't adhere to the original lore. Most people who experience League through Arcane won't see the show as a checklist for the lore, if anything the original lore looks more like suggestions to casual fans.

[swiftfootedachilles]

ok i left the servers im in. ive decided im just done trying to interact with most people and im just gonna stick to the like. 8 people that still follow/positively interact with me. if youre seeing this youre okay but fuck everyone else i guess

[wishlikes]

my love of ‘you can’t die in the prison dimension’ vs krang prime literally said a bunch of other krang died in the prison dimension (aka the brain rot is strong and i needed to use my big words)

one of my biggest pet peeves is when an element of a fic is treated as canonical when it is in actuality refuted in canon, or there is heavy evidence against it in canon (i.e. one of leo’s swords staying in the prison dimension when they were shown in the movie to fall in the same path after being smacked out of Leo’s hands). However, the popular prison dimension mechanics that appear in fics (inability to die and time dilation) are incredibly interesting. It helps that the first is almost always accompanied by the second, which is usually acknowledged as being a canon divergence or au element.

Because I’m insane, I’m gonna analyze those elements under the assumption that the four warriors who created the key and locked away the krang also created the prison dimension itself and had some input into its design. Now that i say this, it’s a pretty big assumption. Perhaps the prison dimension existed before the key, inaccessible, and they tapped into it by chance. Maybe by creating the key, they created the prison dimension, but had no say in how it functioned. I can imagine that they weren’t too picky about where the krang ended up or in what situation as long as it was ‘not here’.

Anyway, if the warriors did have any input to the design and functioning of the prison dimension, the inability of the occupants to die makes no sense (and not just bc it goes directly against something stated in canon). These guys wanted to get rid of the krang by any means necessary. Even if these guys were from the ‘we don’t kill our enemies no matter what’ persuasion, purposely preventing any death at all is a wildly wtf move. And if we go the ‘prison made for undying eternal torment’ route, that is still dangerously reckless since the key can’t be destroyed, preventing a guarantee of the krangs’ continued imprisonment.

Time dilation! Time dilation is fun, especially since there are two kinds. The one where time passes quicker in the prison dimension (i.e. 10 minutes in there equals 1 month outside it) would only make sense as a purposeful design feature if the warriors who made the key thought that the krang finding a way to escape from the inside is not only possible, but a more likely possibility than anyone using the key to release them. On the other hand we have the time dilation where time passes slower in the prison dimension (i.e. 1 month in there equals 10 minutes outside). This makes more sense if the key is the only known/believed method of escape. The point in both cases is to buy humanity as much time as possible.

Now personally, under the assumption that the warrior guys made the prison dimension, ability to die + time passes slower makes the most sense to me. HOWEVER. inability to die is just so much fun you guys. it makes NO SENSE unless the warrior guys weren’t picky about where they were sending the krang and (more importantly to me) GOES DIRECTLY AGAINST CANON. but. leo. the horror of surviving something he knows he shouldn’t have. the horror of watching his body be broken and torn apart over and over again. the horror of knowing it’s never going to end. never. he didn’t want to die, but the unfathomable endless eternity is stretching out in front of him and he KNOWS that at some point (if he’s not there already) that death is going to look like a cruelly withheld mercy.

it’s so good, man. i hate it bc it goes against canon, but i love it for everything else

[mothocean]

Btw i am saying that with every ounce of love i have for diluc. That man is a forest fire machine and i wouldn't have it any other way

[steviewashere]

I want to write something sort of meta, hear me out on it. Sorry, if this hits too close to home. The idea came to me and I needed to get it out of my system. And...would you look at that, another half-written fic.

Steve ends up getting really into Star Wars after Dustin shows him to it. Like, so much that he gets himself involved with conventions, cosplay, collecting anything and everything he can. He's involved in a fandom space. Learns the world of fan fiction. And let's say that maybe, during his time figuring out where he wants to go with life, he picks up writing fanfic as a hobby.

It encourages him to get an English degree. Encourages him to lean more into that hobby, but then expanding upon it to write original short stories and small novels that go published. But he holds strong to Star Wars and fandom and finding his spot cemented in it. He's been a fan for...nearly forty years at this point (set in 2024, ugh I know).

And maybe he dabbles in online spaces here and there. He ignores the insufferable adults in the Star Wars fandom (the "um, actually..." guys, btw). Indulges the effort of typing out his handwritten fan fiction, ones he used to bring and pass around at conventions, ones he'd let Eddie read with a shy look in his eyes. And he posts them online, has a Tumblr account, maybe does a few short things on Twitter, definitely is on AO3 (albeit newer, having never attempted online fan work before).

But then...then he gets his first little bit of hate. Vicious, gross comments on his work. Sometimes in private messages. Even publicly, once, on Twitter. It irks him. He holds strong, he does. But then it gets worse and worse and somehow, worse. Younger people claiming he's too old, others claiming that he can't write for certain characters because they're out of his age range, that he can't ship certain people, he can't say that a character would do this or that, that Star Wars is media for a younger audience (despite being somebody who saw it "back in the day"). But that he...That he's not supposed to be there.

And that last little comment sticks with him for a long time. It makes his effort and his attention and his love for writing fanworks falter. He stops. Thinks about the characters he loves, of Leia and Han or even Luke and Han or Lando and Han (listen he loves writing Han). But then he wonders if it's even worth it, to indulge this interest anymore. Yeah, maybe he's older than the source material. Sure, maybe he was introduced to it a little later than most, but that doesn't mean he doesn't love it. Yet, his attention towards Star Wars completely falls away.

He stops watching it. His DVDs going dusty and unused. Starts putting away all his action figures, because what if he posts a photo one day and somebody sees them and claims that that's not for him and—

Then, he goes completely offline from fandom. Even if he still gets the emails from users who actually enjoy his stuff, ignoring them completely. Focuses on using the internet for work. For his novels, for the little stories he actually gets paid to write. But his work just isn't the same. The passion, despite being an original story and original source material, is completely dwindled.

His hobby has been stripped from him. His interest has been knocked straight out of his hands. And he just...moves on.

Even if it hurts to go down into the basement of he and Eddie's home, eyes catching on the see-through bins of original action figures, Lego sets, comic books. Even if it makes something strangle in his chest when he opens up the browser on his phone and it immediately opens to a new ship he'd been getting into: Din Djarin/Luke Skywalker—because he finally picked up The Mandalorian, because he was finally talked into watching it when he had the free time.

And then it all bursts over when Eddie finally approaches him about it, when they're enjoying a night-in, sitting around lazily on their sofa.

"There's a convention coming into town," he comments, "supposedly, Hayden Christensen is going to be there. We should go, try and meet him."

Steve just grunts in response.

"Oh-kay...or we could just stay home and watch the movie?" Eddie suggests. "Been a while since I've seen Darth on screen, telling Luke about"—

"I don't want to," Steve cuts in quietly, "isn't really my thing anymore."

Silence then follows. For a beat. Then two. A third.

"Not your thing?" Eddie asks him incredulously. "Not too long ago you were raving all about that new show that's coming out! That you saw they were doing lightsaber whips and you were excited to see how they worked! What do you mean it's 'not your thing'?"

Steve shrugs. "Grew out of it or whatever. Got more important things to focus on now." He sniffs, trying to keep himself held together, grumpy and firm in his decision.

Eddie's stare drills into the side of his face. Scalding, just like that lava was in Revenge of The Sith. "Baby," he speaks softly, "did something happen? You haven't even...you don't read your beautiful little stories to me anymore. In fact, now that I think about it, I haven't even seen your lightsabers around here. What's goin' on?"

He fiddles with the hem of his shirt. A ratty plain white t-shirt that he wears now when he's lounging around the house. It used to be one with the Millennium Falcon on it, but that's tucked down far in his dresser. Not for him anymore.

"Steve," Eddie presses, "did something happen?"

His stare stays down at his lap, still fiddling with his shirt. Fingers flexing unfamiliarly in the strings, unlike the loose ones on his Star Wars shirts. "I just"—Steve heaves a deep sigh—"it's time I grow up. It's...not for me anymore. Too old for it now, I guess."

"You guess or you know? Because nobody's too old for anything. Unless, y'know, you're like eighty-nine and in terrible health and trying to hike Everest, then..."

Despite everything, Steve finds himself chuckling. A giddy little sound here and gone in a breath. He shrugs again, albeit smaller this time. Crumbling within himself. Quietly, honestly, he admits, "People were being mean to me about it online. About my writing. That I'm doing it wrong, that I—that I'm too old for it. That I don't belong because of my age." He finally brings himself to look at Eddie, blearily because his eyes are aching and wet. "I got to thinking and I...maybe I've just been too caught up in my own bliss to realize that those people are right. They're right and I shouldn't be into kids stuff anymore."

Eddie makes a soft, sad cooing noise in the back of his throat. "Oh, baby," he breathes. "Baby, those people don't know a single damn thing about your love. But...but I do. I know that you've seen every single Star Wars movie more times than I've probably eaten in my entire life. And what about all those Halloween costumes over the years? I didn't dress up like Leia for nothing, Mr. Solo."

Steve scoffs wetly. Goes to protest, but—

"And...and that handshake! The one with Dustin? You guys have had that for nearly forty fucking years! So, why bother indulging any of these...these hardasses on the internet? Did they sit next to you on the sofa as you fucking curled yourself like a shrimp and wrote every little intricate detail of a kiss between Luke and Han? Have they read your work while you blushed all shy, while you tucked your hair behind your ear and asked for the most earnest of feedback, to make sure you spelt things correctly or put a comma in the right place? These people, did they get to see you blossom and grow like a fucking bushel of roses over your hobby?

"Because I know I did. And even though you were nervous about your words on the paper, you still came to me. You still wrote and wrote and wrote until I had to bully you into breaks, just so you wouldn't ruin your poor wrists. If they had even an ounce of the passion that you do, they could write their own stories. They can make their own endings and make the characters the way they imagine them.

"They choose, instead, to—what—make fun of you because you have a space to express yourself? Because you found passion and turned it into something so beautiful, even I—a dungeon master, someone supposed to be amazing at storytelling—can't put into words? You found a way to do that, Steve. And you do that with kindness. You do it for free, mind you. If their only passion sits within sending you vitriol over people who aren't even remotely close to real, then they're the ones who don't belong.

"If I've learned anything, fandom is a space to share and bounce off each other's words. It's community and it's belonging and it's sharing what you love because you just love it. Fandom isn't bullying. Bullying is just bullying, Steve.

"And everything you've ever done in your life, in regards to fandom and outside of it, is so much better than hate. You may be a nerd or...or a little bit overzealous or whatever, but at least you aren't hateful. I think being hateful, that's worse—don't you think?"

Steve can only stare in response, fast tears down his cheeks, hands shaking in his shirt. Mind reeling. Because, yes, Eddie's right. And he maybe should've talked about it initially, but the hurt festered and festered and tangled and grew until he was nothing but an unhealed scab. And Eddie, he's the antiseptic to his uncovered cuts—the ones deep on his heart, where all his love is—even for things considered mundane, like movies, like TV shows.

"Steve," Eddie carefully murmurs, wrapping Steve's hands with his own, "you don't have to do something right to love it. You don't have to be a certain way to be happy. If Star Wars made you happy, then why give it up?"

He sniffles and chokes back on a sob. Because, again—damnit—Eddie's right. "I miss it," he admits quietly, "all I've done is miss it."

Eddie gives him a small smile. Something achingly soft that reaches deep within Steve. "Then open your arms and welcome it back, baby," he whispers, "even if you can't be online anymore, do it for yourself."

"I...I want to try it again, I'm just...scared. What if people hate it all over again? What if they're just nasty to me and shut me down and push me to the side and"—

"But what if they love it? What if your readers have missed you just as much?"

"You think?" he meekly asks.

Eddie's eyes widen and his eyebrows shoot up his forehead. "I know, actually. Your emails keep coming in on the computer's desktop because I keep forgetting to log you out. And, baby, you would not believe how many people have been eager for updates, for your return." His thumbs work into the backs of Steve's hands, warm and sure. "And, if it helps, maybe I can moderate your comments before you look at 'em? I'll read them to myself and if they're mean, I'll delete them."

Steve blows out a breathy little chuckle. "You'll just get mad at them," he gently teases. "But that doesn't sound too bad. Maybe I should try again. Not yet, though. I'm not ready."

"That's okay," Eddie assures, "take things slow. Maybe we start with watching the movies again? Getting your lightsabers back on display?"

"Can we go to the convention, too?"

"We can do whatever you want, Stevie."

For the first time in a long while, Steve finds himself smiling. "I love you," he whispers.

"I know."

[originalaccountname]

Hiiiiiii...

Ok, so! Sorry to bother you, but you are one of my favorite bsd meta account on this platform, and while I know that Mori isn't really your focus, I had a question.

Is it true that Mori based Elise on Yosano? And if so, do you know why?

Hello!! Thank you for your nice words! ✨

I don't think there's a single definitive hard truth about how Elise is for now. We don't know in what capacity Mori controls her besides being able to order her to attack or protect. I won't get too in detail about it in case it's a spoiler for you, but Elise in BEAST still has her strong attitude... while being an adult, which makes her much more suited to her current role. We don't know if Mori's the one to choose her personality and age or if it just... happens despite himself.

What we can see is that, during the war, Elise was dressed in a cutesy frilly nurse/maid outfit and answered "yes master" to Mori without showing a shred of attitude. Since it's the only time we see her at that time, this has to be a relevant detail.

The Elise we know in canon is a bratty spoiled little girl who loves sweets and hates how pathetic Mori is and therefore refuses to listen to him in casual settings. However, in battle situations, she becomes a lot closer to what we see her be during the war.

The way Mori treated Yosano during the war is similar to how he treats Elise now. He finds their attitudes cute, but wants them to obey him. The main difference between the two is that, while Elise is an ability and functionally a doll, Yosano was a real person with her own wants and needs, which Mori didn't care at all about. It's only fun and cute when Elise has an attitude because when he needs her to do something, she will never say no. He is only playing pretend.

Mori told Yosano that he "has a hard time not granting a little girl's wish". Maybe this entire thing is about Yosano. Maybe Yosano just happened to be exactly the kind of little girl Mori likes to gush over. both are likely.

and btw, if you want more on the subject of Mori and Elise, I recommend this read about the inspiration behind them! There's also something to be said about the relationship between irl Mori and his daughter Mari (who idolized him), but I don't know enough about that subject to confidently tell you more about it.

[hero-villian-blog]

Miguel Is Wrong About Canon Events

So, we've all made jokes about Spider-verse's canon events, the whole "I can't let you do that it's a canon event" joke. However, these jokes alongside what people think a canon is, is not actually what a canon event is.

Miguel tells us precisely what canon events are in the movie, while showing some examples. "They are the canon, chapters that are a part of every Spider's story every time." In other words it's not just any event that happens in a Spider's story or history of a world, it has to be very specific events that are shared by all Spiders. The examples Miguel gives includes the spider bite, the upside down kiss, Venom, the death of a close loved one, and the death of a captain.

Now here's where I start speculating based on things that don't add up. What canon event did Miguel break to destroy the universe he went into? Miguel makes it seem like just being in another universe breaks a canon event, but that doesn't actually add up with what he said. As he said, a canon event is something that happens in every Spider's story and that it can't be disrupted. Simply being in another universe wouldn't do that unless he was actively breaking canon himself in that world.

Continuing on, we don't actually see what happens when someone breaks canon, at least that's what it seems like to me. You may be saying, but Miles breaks a canon event or there's Mumbattan. But here's the thing, what happened in Mumbattan does not look similar to what happened in Miguel's footage it's different. What we see in Mumbattan is the work of the Spot, and is not caused by Miles saving the Captain. Even Miles points it out to Miguel that it was caused by the Spot.

Now if we take a look at Miguel's footage, there is something interesting that we see. The universe glitches as it is destroyed, the same kind of glitching we see in the first movie that was caused by specifically Kingpin's collider. Now we know Miguel is using similar but more advanced technology to what Kingpin was using. So what if Miguel didn't break a canon event but rather did something with his technology that destroyed the universe. From there Miguel either misinterpreted what happened, or is lying about what actually happened.

Also, canon events have been broken already in this movie without a world being destroyed. If we take Miguel's claim that what happened in Mumbattan was Miles breaking a canon event and not the Spot as a fact. Then shouldn't the breaking of what could be argued the most major and important canon event there is, result in the immediate destruction of that world. Or at least Mumbattan but sped up? What am I talking about? The spider bite of course, even Miguel has it labeled as a canon event. So tell me why does Earth-42 still exist? It has no Spiderman, the spider bite canon event never happened, yet it is still intact with Prowler Miles running around. We also can't make the suggestion that Miguel saved Earth-42, because he didn't get the ability to travel across the Spider-verse until after the events of the first movie.

Speaking of Miguel, he was never bitten by a spider. Instead he injects himself as we see him do in the movie. Isn't that breaking away from the canon? Also, at the end of the movie Gwen realizes that Miguel is wrong when her father quits, that these canon events aren't set in stone. Btw, can we stop the Gwen hate? She is meant to be a flawed character who while in a bad place made some bad decisions, and is now correcting herself. Seriously you guys are spiteful.

Sorry, time to get back on track. There is also the meta text of the movie, the idea that the story has to go one way. That the canon must be abided by, the Spider Society's authority, or you could say the Comics Code Authority. With Miguel representing it, as he tells Miles that he is the original anomaly and that he's not supposed to be Spiderman. The rest of this post info is in a reply because I keep getting an error.

[swordfright]

What do you think is your most controversial dsmp take?

I got this ask a while ago and I've been wracking my brains trying to come up with something, but honestly...I don't think I really have many hot takes? At least, not ones that I'd consider controversial. Most of my controversial takes are about fanon/how the fandom interacts with the source material, which I assume isn't what you're looking for (but BOY DO I HAVE A LOT OF THOSE.) I also have likes and dislikes when it comes to duos and shipping stuff, but that's subjective obviously and more opinion than lore interpretation.

I guess if you put a gun to my head, I might say these are my most controversial Actual Lore Takes, but they're not all that interesting imo:

The experiments in the revival lab happened AFTER c!Dream's incarceration, not before it. My understanding is that most people interpret that sequence as occurring prior to the incarceration because...why would c!Dream let himself be locked up, relying on his knowledge of the book to be his life insurance, if he hadn't tested the damn thing out yet?! This logic tracks, but I think you could also flip it to argue the opposite: that he also could have conceivably waited to fully test the book until after escaping. During the run-up to the Disc Finale, c!Dream was incredibly busy with the fallout from Dethronement + Exile + Manburg related stuff etc, as well as busy preparing for the confrontation with c!Clingys, plus arranging the staged finale with Punz. The guy was busy as hell and he was also like...still kinda in the midst of a manic episode. Also, keep in mind that while the book was his life insurance for the finale and its immediate aftermath, he had no idea that c!Sam was going to betray him. Considering all that, I don't think it's inconceivable that c!Dream may not have had time to thoroughly test the limits of the revive book beforehand, and he likely didn't realize quite how vital his knowledge of revival would become during his incarceration period. So yeah. I'm open to either interpretation, but I am partial to the possibility that the Vikk and Lazar necromancy montage happened after the prison era. And the exact date/location of the lab are never specified either, which makes me even more open to the post-prison necromancy option. Not a hill I'd be willing to die on, but a hill I like to sit on and admire the view from.

End of Las Nevadas is the weakest stream of the Las Nevadas series. I found it narratively unsatisfying, and not in a clever way. I don't hate that stream, I think it had some really interesting moments, but overall I'd say its messaging was convoluted and the tension was pretty poorly mismanaged. I'd be willing to go on about this if you want, but I think a lot of other folks have probably already articulated it better than I can. Oh, I'll add that I also have complicated thoughts about c!Slime as a character. Don't hate him, don't love him...but I am puzzled about the role he was presumably meant to play in the story vs. the role he actually ends up playing. I could go on about this in detail but it's late and I'm sleepy.

c!Quackity has very simple goals and motives, but his pursuit of those goals is oftentimes way more convoluted than necessary, which ends up making him read as a more complex and dynamic character than he really is (I like this btw!) Another way to put it would be that Q is not a terribly complex character in terms of motivations and ambitions (dr3 has rly good meta on this btw), but he does tend to needlessly complicate his own life and the lives of the people around him in pursuit of simple goals. I think one of his big failings is that he sees violence as an easy solution to his problems but in reality it just creates more problems for him. It's like he keeps failing some sort of foresight check, over and over again. Take the formation of Las Nevadas, for instance. Most of the country's members were intimidated/threatened into joining, not because they're people Q particularly wants to hang around with, but because they're people Q sees as either strong (i.e. they are capable of contributing to LN) or directionless (i.e. they're in need of an owner a leader.) Quackity doesn't really forge alliances, he just...buys people, basically? And then he's shocked when this backfires. His relationship with Purpled is the most obvious example of this, but also LN as a whole: in LN5 (?), Quackity's angry and offended and hurt that only a tiny handful of people show up to the opening ceremony, even though by all accounts the reason the turn-out isn't bigger is because the server has by this point become a chaotic and violent place where anything can happen to anyone for any reason and most inhabitants feel safer sticking to their own turf...and that atmosphere of chaos and violence is something Q has ostensibly contributed to, even before Pandora. c!Quackity creates a country that no one is truly loyal to, inhabited by people who are closer to employees than allies...and then his solution, when he realizes nobody really gives a shit, isn't to try recruiting people in a more equitable way, it's to bioengineer a slime army. That is insane. That is an insane way to solve your problems. In no way is bioengineering a slime army a normal or well-adjusted solution to any conceivable problem. This is what I mean when I say he's a relatively uncomplicated character who complicates everything - he's constantly jumping through hoops of fire to avoid changing his behavior and taking any kind of accountability whatsoever.

I have tons more takes but they're mostly about silly subjective stuff and/or fanon, so I'll leave that for another day if anyone's interested.

[bthump]

there's this thing going around on twitter of "evil anime characters" or whatever which includes Griffith, a couple villains and a couple completely normal guys that didn't do anything bad, and people keep saying that they're comparing the normal ones to a rapist and I just find that stance on Griffith's character so diminutive. The entire Berserk fandom seems to be completely unwilling to engage with his character in any way that isn't hating him over one scene. I feel like Miura really missed the mark on the eclipse rape for many reasons, but when it comes to Griffith, making him do what is universally recognized as one of the worst things you can do to someone else, which writers (including Miura) often use as shorthand to indicate someone is irredeemably evil, just invited fans to despise him completely. It's just frustrating to see his character, which I find very interesting and compelling, being reduced to a generic cruel caricature because of a poor writing decision. It's like people blame Griffith himself as if he's a real person that chose to do what he did instead of thinking of why he was written to do that and how it affects the story. I fear we have death of the author'd too close to the sun and now everyone in fandom treats characters like people instead of devices through which someone tells a story. Idk I don't have a question or anything lol, this is just something I think about and wanted to commiserate over I guess? I love your metas btw!!

Thank you! Yeah I kinda feel this.

I think there are different cultural expectations in terms of how rape is treated in media, both in North America vs Japan, but also in like the mid 90s vs now honestly, that make the Eclipse rape not as character-breaking a scene in context.

But at the same time considering the amount it's been downplayed in NeoGriffith's narrative, as well as iirc Miura mentioning that he has regrets re how far the Eclipse went (though this might be in reference to killing everyone else off lol, I don't quite recall the complete context), I do think it's kind of become the elephant in the room in a way that feels legit pretty awkward lol.

And yeah it's definitely a major part of why the English-speaking fandom is so bonkers about how they react to Griffith lol, and it's frustrating that people refuse to like, read the story beyond that.

Idk, basically yeah ia that it's annoying lol. Thanks for the ask!

[the-sprog]

Now I want to hear more about your Sasuke in DC ideas

This is gonna be long anon, so strap in:

RN it's more of a "Batman in Naruto" idea, but if I were to put the people of Naruto in DC I would make them all some kind of League of Assassins brench that's been removed from them for so long they just kinda do their own thing now. It would be less villages and more like a loose collection of people. Like, I know it's important that Konoha is a ninja village that allows civilians, but I don't think I could fit that into DC without making it a "Court of Owls in Gotham" kind of situation.

Or maybe I just plop the Land of Fire in DC, someplace near Japan, that still has connection to the League but is very isolated and removed from modern society (until after the 4th Shinobi War, since we see that between that and Boruto the technology they use has gotten real advanced real fast. I mean, they have trains now. And computers).

So in this case I'm thinking Orochimaru and/or Madara and/or Obito and/or- YOU GET THE IDEA, someone tried to ally themselves with the League since, y'know, immortality and all. But got rejected because Ra's Al Ghoul is a one pretencious asshole. He'd see the Edo Tensei as rudementary and grottesque. Although he'd probably try to get his hands on some of the Kekkei genkai.

Small tangent, the superpowered classifications in DC are utter and absolute bullshit. All ninjas would be considered Metas, because what a Meta even is, isn't established with clear lines. Every author kinda of has a different interpretation of it, which has, at times, made people consider Batman a Meta as well because of his intelligence. So I usually don't care about "no metas in gotham" because, all in all, it means nothing. I consider it more of a "no people that Bruce considers too strong or with powers that are too bothersome to deal with left unsupervised in Gotham".

Back to our regularly scheduled programming: this would, in turn, ping alarms for Bruce and/or Tim and/or Damian (which I think are the ones keeping the most track of the League) who would investigate the situation, learn about the Land of Fire (which, btw, I know is the name of only one country but they don't have continent names, and unless I go the Witcher route and just call it "the continent" there's too many countries here. Also the world of Naruto is called "Earth" and they call the ninja terrotories just "Shinobi/Ninja World" which would be confusing to follow. Though I could go with Shinobi Continent.) but Bruce and the JL both have a thing about not interfearing with foreign conflicts unless explicitly asked to, so the most he'd do is visit. Now, I don't know the geography of the place all that well, but I assume the names "the village hidden in the [blank]" means that the villages are hard to find -unless you're a ninja yourself. And althrough Bruce did intern, for lack of better words, under Ra's Al Ghoul, I wouldn't consider the League to be made of ninjas, but more mercenaries and assassins who know martial arts and are vaguely inspired in looks by various asian countries. I'd say the ninjas in Naruto would be more closer to Cas' skillset plus very specific types of magic than anything the League has cooked up. So he'd have a really hard time finding any of the vilages. He'd have to either intercept a battle, or be intercepted himself. Maybe accidentally cross paths with some missing-nins or get mistaken as one of the Akatsuki.

I know I joked about Damian and Sasuke not getting along because of them both being ninjas, but I think Sasuke would hate if Damian ever called himself one. To become a ninja, at least in Konoha, you have pass the academy's final exam by showin proficiency in the three main ninjutsus (substitution jutsu, cloning jutsu, and transformation jutsu) showing your abilities to morph and control chakra. This makes you a Genin. The first Shinobi/Kunoichi rank. To Sasuke it would be a title that Damian has never earned, and thus has no right to call himself by.

I'm imagining them the same age, so this would be a 17yo Damain, at which point it's a mellowed out but still bitter and disappointed Sasuke. Because there's no way Sasuke would let himself get a new family before killing Itachi and having some sense beaten into him in the form of his arm blowing off. Or that Orochimaru would let his precious pupil go that easily.

Not for lack of trying from Bruce, I'm sure. There's no way he wouldn't send his other kids to at least keep tabs on the situation. I think he'd be less interested in adopting Naruto because if one thing is true about Bruce is that he ends up adopting the kids whose situations or attitudes most remind him of his own. Naruto would honestly make GREAT friends with Billy Batson.

There's also no way he heard Itachi's story and didn't try to track him down as well.

Sasuke's, like, an absentee father in Boruto, right? Because he's got that whole thing about still not loving Konoha, but working hard to help Naruto make it a better place while also atoning for all the hurt he's caused. So maybe he finally accepts Batman's offer at another family, which he misterpreted greatly because he definately thought Batman was looking for more people to train, as is common for jonins to do in ninja villages. He does NOT compute that Bruce meant to adopt him. There's 7 something other adults who keep calling him brother and he assumes it's some kind of language or cultural barrier.

Now that the Lands (I'm calling them the lands fuck it) have made contact with the rest of the world though, it would be easier to teleport there by leaving various Kunais or shit in the way (since I'm pretty sure no one but Minato can actually use the Hiraishin and the Shushin has a lenght limit, but I think with enough chakra you could do a bunch of substitution jutsus), and if Sasuke stays stationary for a while there's nothing stopping them from visiting. Maybe Sakura can even do some helping out at Leslie's clinic.

I don't think he'd ever become a bat. If he became a hero in some way he'd be independent and much more silent than the bats are currently. He'd be the new cryptid of Gotham. No mask and yet no one's ever seen this one. Claims no affiliation to any of the hero teams, not that anyone would be able to tell since no one ever sees him.

Sidenote, I was checking if all of ANBU was dismantled or just root and I discovered that I erroneusly thought Sasuke was ANBU in Boruto. Which he isn't. Because he never passed the Chunin exam. That's bullshit.

ON ANOTHER NOTE now I'm thinking of Damian taking the Chunin exams the same year as Boruto because he's annoyed at being considered not a ninja, but he had to first get himself trained by an actual ninja to be considered a Genin to even enter the Chunin exam. But he also needs a team of other people who would learn ninja techniques as a a favour to him and be ok with beating the shit out of some 12 year olds with them. Damain is like. 33 now. That would be really funny omg. Tim would learn the techniques I feel, but he wouldn't do it for Damian. Cas probably wouldn't want to learn them and she definately wouldn't beat up children with them.

Which btw wouldn't even work because, as a reminder, the ability to use chakra comes from aliens. Specific ones. And not being a decendant of the Kaguya would mean being unable of using chakra. Other sidenote, just remembered that technically the aliens created the moon. Which would be interesting to implement as a thing in DC history.

I mean, technically the chakra control comes from the God tree so Damian technically could learn if he managed to do what the Akatsuki did but successfully this time. He'd just need all the tailed beasts, a few millenia worth of blood shed in battles, and to eat another of the fruits produced by that. At least that's what I think all of that plot line means. The alien shit still confuses me.

He'd never be able to escape it. Damian will never be a ninja in Sasuke's eyes. (almost accidentally closed the tab LMAO I was not about to rewrite all of that)

This became a lot more about how the Lands and the DC countries would interact with each other than any adopting. That's all I have for now anon. thank you so much for giving me an excuse to continue rambling about this!

[cartoon-buffoon]

Random HC time: I don't think any actual toon would like Bendy, or at least not the normal ones.

Bendy is a character that parodies old animation characters, I don't think any normal toon would like him. Like in the crack up comics there's moments where Bendy is just a menace and although toons are known for their mischief Bendy is a straight up imp from hell, I feel like most will have a negative view towards him. The only ones who I think will actually take a liking to him are the screwball toons yet that really isn't much considering the screwballs are ya know, looney/zany. Like he'd get along with the Warners, Woody Woodpecker, maybe Daffy, all the ones who aren't just right in the head would love him. More normal ones like Mickey, Felix, Betty, Koko, Bosko, Popeye, yeah I don't think they'd really appreciate him and his antics as they aren't really endearing, they're more just troublesome. Honestly I'd go a step further and say Mickey and Oswald would specifically be disturbed by Bendy as a toon if they acknowledge the whole meta thing between his creators.

If you are uninformed in BATIM Joey Drew's and Henry Stein's relationship is a direct reference and parallel to Walt Disney's and Ub Iwerk's relationship and their entire history. Ya know, business and showman gets all the praise for making the cartoon whilst the hard working man effectively gets left in the background. Like imagine meeting some sorta alternate universe version of yourself that didn't have any of your virtuous traits as you and was just a nuisance. Not only that but his creators are also a parody of your own. Yeah I feel like Mickey would TRY to get along with Bendy yet still be borderline disturbed at the fact that there's a cruel joke of him prancing about, and I don't think Oswald would want anything to do with at all. Taking it one step further: if you brought up the ink demon aspect of Bendy's character and the whole "abandoned by creator" thing Oswald would downright DESPISE Bendy. Oswald still holds Walt close to him, he's mad and bitter about Mickey replacing him yet the statue in Epic Mickey clearly shows oh no he definitely still loves his creator, meanwhile Bendy was ya know locked up and grew to despise his creator and although granted the ink demon kinda had a valid reason to grow hateful and evil—I still feel like Ozzie wouldn't/couldn't fathom the idea of hating the person who created you.

This isn't a diss at toon Bendy either btw. The character strikes me as the type to only have few close friends because only a select few can put up with him. For the uninitiated Bendy would be absolutely annoying and most would hate him however obviously Boris and Alice already know his deal and it's why they're close friends with him because they already know what to expect and are used to it. Those who aren't used to him would absolutely hate him though and that's my firm belief.

[ladyluscinia]

Oh so they're doubling down on saying that enjoying a character they don't like and being defensive (and, admittedly, a bit petty) in what's effectively a Flame War is a red flag for demonstrating cult-like fandom behavior, while clarifying that no one is actually calling Izzy fans a cult. Yet. Just saying we need to nip this in the bud, you know?

(This being... what exactly? Arguing about S2 predictions on tumblr? Vaguing people? - Hi! 🫡 Having "bad" takes that may or may not be problematic? Bitching about tagged character crit / hate about your fave, sometimes on the posts in question? Dedicating blogs to wank? Welcome to every-fandom-ever-including-BlackBonnet, I guess.)

Not a new accusation, but since people are once again making ominous statements about the "concerning" potential of a Snapewives situation... maybe we should pass around a reminder of who, exactly, they're referencing?

The Snapewives (Fanlore Link, Reddit Synopsis) were an extremely small niche forum in a really huge fandom that are pretty much only known for infamous levels of cringe that got them mocked relentlessly when discovered by Fan Wank. We are talking a tiny subsection of a subsection of a subsection of the massive HP fandom that got really earnest with their self-insert fanfic / roleplaying (and really didn't like the canon ending of Snape's arc). There's actually a really interesting paper on analyzing "Snapism" as a religion that alludes to their particular issues with Christian faith and erotic fantasies, and can kinda sketch in how they might have gotten to where they did. It's weird, no doubt, but honestly sounds pretty harmless?

Like, I'm not sure if we're using the BITE model that they would even count as a real cult - "Snape" seems very controlling and makes them do things (cook specific dinners, stop biting nails, go on diets, etc.) but, like, there's no cult leader being "Snape". These are all self-assigned "tasks" via "channeling" (which is again weird but not super unique - read the paper) and then the women themselves disagree on things and could just come across as a really intense roleplaying forum having disputes over ratings for self-insert fic, among other things.

The situation is different when there's an obvious cult leader - see the extensive documented history of Andy "thanfiction" compiled here. Trigger warnings for sexual assault, abuse, manipulation... all the stuff you expect from cults. And really getting into reading the supplementary info will take you many hours, btw.

Anyway... having looked extensively at our "fandom cult" examples, I don't think I'm remotely "concerned" that we're veering toward cult behavior. Or Snapewives behavior. The Izzy section of fandom - and, for that matter, the Izzy Anti section of fandom - haven't really done anything that hasn't been done in countless flame wars before? Like we as a collective haven't even gotten to the levels of targeted character hate that I can glimpse by searching "Teen Wolf" right now, and frankly OFMD still isn't big enough to dream of replicating 2010s fandom's biggest hits. There's some cutting edge weaponization of social justice that's a more modern development, but that's still fundamentally just fighting about the fiction. Even the one doxxing incident is unfortunately not unique.

Sheesh, "Izzy Canyon" isn't even demonstrating a unified meta or consistent S2 desires / shipping preferences / etc. We're just better at not being dicks about it by necessity?

[nalyra-dreaming]

I hate the way this fandom is attacking each other and I feel bad for you because I do not think you asked for or started any of this. You simply gave your interpretation and theories of a show based on books and some people took that and twisted it and now it’s turning into something else.

Are parts of this fandom racist? YES. And whether we want to admit it or not, I’ve seen the most racist takes from many individuals WHITE and BLACK alike. I’ve seen some of the most hypocritical meta’s ever that support Louis and then others that support Lestat. I’ve seen some racisit shit said and everyone is nodding their head like there is nothing wrong. I’ve seen some individuals fly off the handle and start screaming racism all because someone dared to critique Louis or Claudia. And I’m not sure where the notion comes from that black people can’t be racist toward white people or racist toward other black people because I see this everyday and this is coming from a black person. I’m not sure where the notion comes from that there isn't racism taking place in the fandom and all blacks are being sensitive, they aren’t. Each situation is individual, and much like real life, there are shitty blacks and shitty whites and we shouldn’t lump all Lestat lovers into a category or all Louis stans into a category. We shouldn't assume all whites are racist and we shouldn’t assume all blacks are being aggressive or sensitive. Do y’all know how many problems could have been solved if people just discussed or educated each other instead of name calling and calling people out and responding with vitriol? Damn, let Jacob and Sam set the example. They disagree and discuss and don't let this shit bother them on a personal level. You know what I respect most about your takes? You never tried to reduce your takes on these characters based on their race.

Nalyra, keep being you, if they don’t like it, they can block you. I sincerely hope you aren’t stressing over this shit. You’re above it. You don't deserve any of this bullshit.

👆

And thank you 💕 I really appreciate it!

Honestly, over a year ago, when this started… I was very taken aback. I have never experienced something like this and I come from Hannibal lol. And btw that is what I mean when I say this has been ongoing. The latest iteration is just that - the latest iteration. (I‘m not taking this in any relaxed manner but I‘m far from being as stressed as back then, soooo 💕)

And yes, if they don’t like… they can block me. That’s what I‘m doing now, too. 🤷🏽‍♀️