#yeah why is this suddenly a discourse now

[macadam]

Gonna put myself out here for a hot minute to remind everyone that the runner of a poll or little event on tumblr is not responsible for the replies/posts of everyone else in the fandom, nor do they have the power to stop people from reacting in any which way in the notes of their post without turning off reblogs and shutting down the entire thing full stop. I think we can all agree on that? They are not a discord mod, or the fandom's babysitter. Tumblr is the Wild West and by god none of us are the sheriff.

That's all ok keep on keeping everyone

[bylertruther]

i can't explain it well bc my brain is fried after exams but i feel like there is Something there in the fact that whenever the byIer community talks abt how shipping byIer isn't inappropriate and that them kissing is completely normal and fine, people always, always, ALWAYS have to pipe up with "well yeah kissing is fine but [goes on to preach to the choir abt how nsfw byIer is bad]". like. why is that where your mind jumps. why is it that when one person says "mike and will kissing on screen like every other couple has been allowed to would be good and normal and expected, and writing fics where they kiss isn't inappropriate at all, and we should discuss why people think them kissing is any different and inherently dirty and Bad because therein lies the actual issue" some people gotta pipe up and prove that point exactly. like. do u get wht i mean? no one brings up "pr0shipping" or sex or any of that irrelevant shit whenever someone talks abt j4ncy or lvmax sharing a peck. so why do u bring that up here and now? why do you act like we're talking about anything else here and put words in our mouths? why do you feel Some Type Of Way as an lgbt person urself whenever someone else says that they'd like to see a couple tht looks like them express innocent physical affection the same way that everyone else in the show does? why do you suddenly start talking about cp when literally no one is fucking talking about that at all? like. hello. i can't be the only bitch that sees this i can't be the only person that goes 🤨❓❓❓whenever ppl start to needlessly steer the convo in tht direction like .......

[saintjosie]

say what you will about tiktok but there isn’t a single american news outlet talking about palestine that isn’t just pro-israeli propoganda and tiktok is one of the few places where you can actually get information about what’s happening there.

do trends and shitposts get annoying sometimes? yeah absolutely. but it’s still an incredibly important and powerful platform for information dissemination when you are able to filter through bullshit with a modicum of media literacy and find content creators you can trust. and doubly so in the wake of twitter falling to pieces.

what if elon musk isn’t as big of an idiot as he seems? what if he’s playing a long con, willing to lose 20 billion dollars (which is not even 10% of his estimated net worth btw) in order to further his political agenda? and why is there suddenly bipartisan support for a tiktok ban via KOSA (kids online safety act), supposedly in the name of protecting children?

both parties know that the american propoganda machine falls apart when the power of information lies with the people.

remember when conservatives initially wanted to ban tiktok? they were willing to allow tiktok to continue to operate if they either sold to an american company or relocated their servers to american soil. and now after tiktok managed to avoid doing either one while also managing to avoid giving any legal reason for a tiktok ban, suddenly there is bipartisan support for a bill that essentially allows for unrestricted censorship of the internet in america?

another thing to consider - where did this vitriol for tiktok come from? did it come from someone you know? and where did that person pick up that opinion? can that opinion be traced back to an actual person or were many of these opinions seeded by faceless accounts, the same way that faceless accounts spread nazi shit, terf shit, and shitty lgbtqia rhetoric, to start the unsuspecting down radicalizing pipelines?

every major political power in the world is constantly running psyops to erode our ability to trust what we see online, to sow misinformation and distrust, because the uninformed masses are vulnerable to manipulation.

think about the media you consume. double check it. get a second opinion. learn how to engage in GOOD FAITH discourse. learn how to be kind. learn when to block and move on.

protect yourself and in doing so, protect those around you. because without the communities that we have online, without the ability to organize and share, we lose.

[decolonize-the-left]

Why do terfs find the transandrophobia community such an easy target for recruitment?

....you don't think lesbians are especially prone to being targeted despite so many of them being (political) lesbians?

But yeah okay I'll humor your disingenuous question.

They are drawn to transmascs for the same reason they think trans women are oppressive.

TERFs fundamentally have no respect for them or their gender identity. They pretend to be respectful, but disregard it completely. Why? They want to unify with transmascs over something they call "sex based oppression."

It's their latest psyop to try erasing trans people. Their goal is to exploit uneducated transmascs into thinking they experience oppression because of their sex and not their gender identity.

If you can get transmascs to parrot that point, then eventually the logic will reach transfemmes who will undoubtedly be discoursing with them about it. Suddenly the trans community is debating whether our oppression is even due to gender.... And well if that's the case does it Matter if we identify as trans? Should laws even recognize gender over sex at that point?

For obvious reasons TERFs can't "bond" with trans women over "sex based oppression" and manipulate them with the same methods. They also don't want to since they see trans women as men; as The Enemy.

See, idk if you know this but TERFs don't believe transmen are men. They think they're mentally ill women who need to be saved as fellow women. To a TERF this is the same as just having Awful self esteem. Which is so relatable because you know who tanks the self esteem of women?

Men. Only men could make women hate themselves so much that they don't want to identify as their own sex anymore. To a TERF every trans man is a tragedy that gets more pity from them from anything. They think they're helping. They feel sorry for transmen and see them as something that needs to be saved.

So no.

It's not that the transandrophobia community are easier targets than anyone else is.

They aren't targeting transmen because they Like transmen. They don't target them cuz it's Easier to make men hate transwomen.

They target transmen who wanna talk about their experiences because (as people who don't think transmen are real) they want to poison the well that they think is making so many "women" sick in the head in the first place and if it helps hurt "men" in the process then that's better for them.

But like I said at the beginning of the post, this isn't a special exception. It's been a well-known fact that TERFs we're behind early 2000's exclusionary discourse, behind bi/pan discourse, and now seems to be the Cause of transandrophobia discourse.

This isn't new for them or the queer community.

What IS new is that TERFs seem to have successfully convinced yall that some trans people IN the trans community shouldn't be given the permission to create language to talk about their experiences.

At the very least they've already done That much damage.

Their little psyop is literally working and you are in my asks asking why trans men begging to be heard out are easier targets for TERFs?

[always---wrong]

Okay, so I wanted to discuss the situation with Alastor, his canonical sexuality, and fans.

I have seen the two sides alot.

So one side ships Al with numerous characters and sees this as casual fun.

And the other thinks this is disrespectful cause he is ace, or Aroace.

(I believe that he is Aroace. His va said so, his character has shown no interest in romance, and Viv may have confirmed it at some point)

Now, I am sex repulsed ace and I'm aro. And I have strong opinions. Alastor is my favorite character in Hazbin Hotel, he is also the FIRST confirmed ace character I've seen. (This doesn't include subtly implied characters) Because Al is the first and I care for him he is very important to me.

My opinion is really mixed because on one side it's; yeah, it is a fandom, and fandoms ship. It's what they do. Its also kind a rude to judge someone for their favorite pairings and stuff, in my opinion.

On the other side though I'm hurt. I am a queer person with basically no rep. And I hadn't realized how upset I was by this until I saw discourse over this character. I had FORGOTTEN that it was possible to have confirmed canonical ace characters. I had gotten so used to that just being a head cannon. And not only just an ace character but also an Aroace character. And not just that but a seemingly non sex favorable ace character. I would even argue he is sex repulsed.

My real problem with all this is:

Yes, I KNOW ace characters can have sex. But do you know who else can? Literally every single allosexual character. I KNOW aros can date. But you know who else can? Everyone else. The appeal of ACTUALLY having characters with the same sexuality as me is that they would be like me. Cause I and other aces like me never, ever get stories like that. So many times in media I would be enjoying a character who had shown NO interest in sex/romance and would suddenly be partnered up with another just for the heck of it. This has happened SO many times it's not even funny. It's incredibly frustrating.

So, the point I'm trying to make is that; YES, there are aces who have sex. HOWEVER, a large number of us do not. And it's like everyone forgets that. Your not writing Alastor having sex with Angel cause your showing the vast spectrum of asexuality. Your most likely writing it cause it's sex between two hot characters. It's simply maddening.

(One thing I wanted to say was, despite the fact that Al is ace i don't think it's bad to find him attractive. He is very pleasing to look at so I understand allos finding him hot. However I'm not sure where I stand with people sexualizing him. I think I'm leaning towards, 'please don't do it'.)

Now, the worst thing though is when I'm looking for content to enjoy. When I found out Al was canonically ace I was so happy and excited. I'm pretty sure this situation wouldn't make me nearly as frustrated if it weren't for the overwhelming amount of sexual content for Al. Some would be fine. I could just scroll past it if this were the case. But it is not. Content for Al is MOSTLY sexual. That's why I don't believe people when they keep saying they aren't invalidating aces because almost every time I go looking for a fic I have to scroll for HOURS just to find few non ship fics.

I can't even use the Asexual Alastor tag because all that does is bring me to a bunch of fics where the author is like 'he's ace trust me,' then proceeds to write smut.

Why can't I even use a tag made for aces without being drowned in smut. It's so frustrating! Like I'm getting to a point where I wish the authors would stop using the tag and openly admit they made him not ace for the story. Like I know your trying to not throw away his canonical sexuality but I mean at this point I think it'd be better if you did. And if someone is going to write sex favorable ace Al then please leave it to the aces. I trust us to at least weave it into his character instead of stating it and acting like it's there when it's not.

So basically: I don't mind if you ship him, just don't say he's ace or Aroace if your neither of those in ship/smut content. I'm sick of trying to find content that isn't sex/romance in Aroace tags!

I don't want to judge people for liking a ship. But I'm really tired.

ON A DIFFERENT NOTE, I would love to see content with Al and Lucifer. Like them hating each other to like frenemies. It would be so funny.

Anyone have any platonic content with Al and the rest of the cast???

[olderthannetfic]

Pronoun discourse is just as exhausting in person. A trans girl in my group project for History of Modern Europe refused to use he/him for me because "they/them is neutral" and I looked her in the eyes and said, "I will not reply to group texts, upload anything or share resources if you don't refer to me correctly. I use silence to train my dogs, I use it to train transmisandrists, too." She was furious and spent a few weeks misgendering me... until she realized I was serious and I would let all of us fail this group project because this he/him? Yeah, this he/him had a 100 on every single assignment up until that point and could take the grade hit. If other people can't, well, that's not my problem.

She learned to call me he/him with incredible regularity once her grade was on the line. Suddenly, two words weren't incredibly hard to recall and abruptly, not every conversation with her turned into her lecturing me on how trans women have it harder than trans men. We were able to talk about the actual subject of the group assignment and she was able to remember he/him.

Meanwhile, the cishet members of the group had not struggled to recall he/him for me once, nor had they turned group project meetings into discourse once.

Why are queer people always most vicious with their fellow queers? I'm in MONTANA, and the people worst to me aren't the fucking rednecks, it's other queer people. Rednecks don't condescend to me about how they/them is neutral and good and indicates they're trying their best and trans men have it easy actually. It's the city queers sitting there going, "Rather than just call you he/him and spend this meeting for our group project focusing on the project, I'm going to treat you like the enemy and lecture you." People talk about the concept of a 'queer community' but getting lectured about how trans women have it worse than trans men (because I guess my saying 'use my pronouns' secretly implies I think trans men have it worse? idk, I don't speak bullshitese) doesn't make me go, "Ah, yes. My community! I feel so supported!" it makes me go, "Oh, fuck. Great, I'm stuck talking to an asshole."

Between this, the lesbians I've met on campus who keep making, "gays can't do math or science or history or whatever other subject we're in right now" jokes who seethe with contempt for the privileged gay men, the cis gay guys terrified of doing something perverted who view drag, cosplay, wearing a skirt, wearing makeup or fucking around with presentation at all as not okay/possibly problematic and the NBs who cannot emphasize enough to you that they're one of the good ones who don't dye their hair or wear stupid shit or use neopronouns like the bad ones do, and the utter disgust they all look at anyone with who dares use the word queer, I'm beginning to feel like "the queer community" is one of those things you don't get access to until you're 30+. Alternatively "the queer community" appears to "antis, but with rainbows and flags and ew you think the rainbow flag is for everyone you're so problematic", which is... not great, honestly?

I know this will get a lot of queer people very angry but I'll say it: there are 492 anti-queer laws proposed in the USA, not counting the ones that have passed. We should probably focus on that instead of going for each other's throats and then saying we're a "community".

--

I don't think it will get many queer people around here angry, but yes.

We have more of a need to draw together into a community when everyone's dying of AIDS or getting beaten up or trying to stop laws that make it illegal for us to exist.

Some people have the privilege to shit all over that community. They don't see it as one, but it is.

[fangswbenefits]

As an Astarion simp I'm confused why people are suddenly turning on him everywhere. Here, twitter and tiktok and other spaces.

Hi, friend! New to fandom spaces?

I present you the 🌟~honeymoon phase~🌟

People go through that initial phase where they like everything about the character and are simping hard, then the wonder fades and they do a 180.

Same happened with Miguel O'Hara. People were lusting hard for him for a couple of weeks and then the discourse started happening.... and they just turned on him 😭 you can acknowledge their flaws, obviously, but it's such a bizarre occurrence in fandoms. Like... you didn't notice all the red flags before? Or is it cause it's now trendy to shit on this character?

Yeah.... not surprised AT ALL that Astarion is now getting his turn.

[bg3sinbin]

Alright so I told myself I wouldn't post anything about it... but I still can't stop thinking about the A!Astarion kisses, Tav/Durge's face during it, and the stupid blow up around it. So here we go

Warnings: This is long and rambly and contains all kinds of spoilers. I am an A!Astarion lover. I will not be responding to discourse on this post. I do not care if you disagree. Make your own vent post.

OKAY so the brunt of the arguments I keep trying to ignore seeing surrounding this are how the expressions are "immersion breaking" for A!A fans, and everyone else clowning on them (sometimes rightfully so tho, ngl) because "the game gives the player expressions all the time! why are u mad now? do u just want ur Tav/Durge to be a blank slate?? lmao idiot" which ??? okay it feels like ur purposefully missing the point.

Yeah, actually sometimes this game gives my Durge some really ooc reactions. And it does, in fact, bother me. That being said, that is to be expected when u take an oc u had for like ten years and try to stick them in a pre-programmed video game. Things are gonna get ooc sometimes.

It also though, is usually smaller moments. Or things that happen Once and then u move on. Conversations where I go "hmmm. he wouldn't say any of these. oh well." or moments where he reacts negatively to terrible things that this evil bastard would normally laugh at. OH. WELL.

Now here's where my frustration actually come in. This game does a really good job, probably a better job than anything else I've played, at letting u play an interesting evil char. Something more than just "I am Rude, Aggressive, and A Dick To Everyone" and thus being punished for it gameplay wise.

I can play The Dark Urge, literal child of the god of murder, a canon necrophiliac, cannibalistic, gore freak that was going to flatten the entire world. There is a whole ass plot line and ending (multiple achievements included!) surrounding doing just that. There's all kinds of nasty interactions/plot options programmed in.

Yet, to the best of my memory, my Durge doesn't look horrified when we choose to slaughter the grove. He doesn't look horrified when we choose to kill the Dame Aylin, or Isobel. He isn't Obviously Distraught when we choose to help Astarion complete the ritual, or when we kill Shadowheart's parents, or become an Unholy Assassin of Bhaal.

To my knowledge, the player character isn't made to look afraid when kissing Dark Justiciar!Shadowheart, nor when they are literally poisoned by kissing Minthara. Sure, u CAN be offended about it in the convo with her after, but its still ur choice as the player.

I mean shit, they even patched in (in that very same patch) a positive, supportive reaction from ur evil partners at the end when u take over the nether brain! (at least for A!Astarion, and Minthara) so now when u do the evil thing that u and ur evil partner have been talking about all game, they don't suddenly change their opinion the second u actually do it.

And I really appreciate that about bg3. I can make evil choices and get interesting outcomes rather than the game just locking me out of all content actually made for that quest. Like ffs u can only get Minthara's romance scene if u slaughter dozens of innocents.

THIS GAME REWARDS U FOR DOING THE BAD THING. And like the evil options do usually have drawbacks and/or are less fleshed out than the good ones, but there are whole ass plots arcs u will never see if u only play good chars. This game makes playing an evil character interesting.

So why is it that I can do all that, and make/have my Durge react (mostly) accordingly, yet the moment the partner I chose acts controlling, now is when my characters feelings are being decided for me?

I can spend the whole game hearing Astarion talk about how spawn are controlled, how all vampires want is power, and I can say to his face "yes! this character wants that! turn me!" and yet somehow... what? the creators think I didn't know?

It just genuinely doesn't make sense to me. Like I can choose, through dialogue, that my Durge is power hungry, and very into the idea of being Astarion's pretty little lap dog. He knew what he was signing up for! And yet he looks terrified when his vampire bf (who has been feeding on him all game) bites his lip?? really?

Idk I just have some really weird feelings on some of the ways they try to Really Emphasize that u made the wrong choice for Astarion specifically, and this just exemplifies that.

Either do the rest of ur characters this service, make all of them (make every choice in the game) a moral lesson for the player to learn, where u hold their hand and say "u didn't listen to what they actually needed :c u could have done the good thing but u didn't :c"

Or let me play my evil bastard. And let me revel in it.

[smuttysabina]

COMMISSION: A Discourse on Disgust

(Male Reader x Jaime, 1000 words) Harsh Femdom, verbal humiliation, pegging, anal, fisting, cumplay, some peeing

"I wasn't expecting much out of you, loser, but this fucking pathetic!" an exasperated Jaime lets your cum-covered cock flop messily back down onto your chest, "I've only been pegging you for like, a minute, and you've already cum, like what the fuck? Like, should I even keep going, you paid me for an hour and its been less than 5 fucking minutes and you've busted. You know, I dont actually care what you want, I'm just going to keep fucking you anyways to teach you not to waste a girls time. Yeah, maybe you can learn some stamina, because I bet you can't even stick this worthless thing in to a girl without busting in like ten seconds. Stop fucking whining! You deserve this! Taste your failure!" Enraged with disappointment, Jaime messily scoops up your load and shoves it into your mouth, spastically plowing you with her strapon all the while. And it had all started out so well...

You had saved enough to meet with Jaime, in private; after all, she is more than happy to fuck her fans during meets or on the streets. But to be with her alone, comes with a cost; with her rapacious appetites, she wants to be compensated for time she could have spent getting gangbanged. So after hawking up the required amount, Jaime was vaguely pleased to discover that you wanted her to dominate you, its a method she is well versed in, and one she enjoys immensely. So off went your clothes, up went your legs, and in went in her strap-on, without much in the way of polite introductions. And now a rather unhappy Jaime is teaching you exactly why you should be careful about what you ask for. She is going to get an hours' enjoyment out of you, whether you like it or not.

Snarling with vicious glee, Jaime continues to fuck your vulnerable ass with gusto, slamming into your prostate mercilessly. Your cock gradually begins to harden once more due to her attentions, until it is flopping uselessly against your stomach once more. Jaime slaps it in disgust, cruelly batting it from side to side as she verbally abuses you, "Well, at least you managed to get it up again, you fucking two-pump chump! Honestly, it would have been better if it stayed small and floppy, because then it wouldn't PISS ME OFF!" Jaime brutally spanks your throbbing manhood, unsparingly punishing it, "I thought that I would get a nice fuck in this afternoon, but instead I just get to abuse you. I was even going to ride you, but I wont even bother, your fucking cock doesn't deserve to go inside a girl's pussy. Oh, you're enjoying this aren't you, you dirty little pervert! I bet you just love getting violated by a hot girl; well unluckily for you I'm not a fucking sadist like Jodi, so I really don't give a shit about what you enjoy."

With that, Jaime suddenly pulls out, leaving your bruised asshole gaping and sputtering foully. She clambers atop your still shuddering body, squatting down above your cock contemptuously. With a depraved giggle, Jaime pisses all over your twitching dick, humiliating it with a golden shower of smelly urine. Sneering with derision she stand back up and daintily steps on your slick manhood; grinding her heel against your balls as she shows her scorn. Rolling her eyes at your piteous moans, she yells at you to stop complaining; rubbing her now dripping foot all over your face, forcing you to savor the flavor of her bladder as well as your semen. Jaime makes a great production about pondering what to do next, thoughtfully holding her chin as she pretends to think about what to do next. Then with a burst of frantic energy she is pulling you over, forcing your face into the covers while hauling your ass into the air. Her tiny palm spanking you in a wicked mockery of your manhood, while a soggy foot keeps you pinned.

By the time she is finished, you are mewling pitifully into the sheets, your cheeks bruised and throbbing painfully; but Jaime isnt finished with you yet. She purrs in delight as she forcefully rubs her hands along your exposed taint, relishing in her her work up until this point; yet still unsatisfied that you learned your lesson. Her lithe fingers quest into your already well-used ass, followed soon after by her knuckles until her whole hand is buried in your whorish asshole. Ignoring your groans, Jaime proceeds to fist you, punching your guts repeatedly as you writhe around her arm. She still has more than enough attention to spare for your mockery of a cock though, her spare hand kneading and squeezing it mercilessly as she urges you to cum. "Awww look at how fucking pathetic your dick is! It's all hard and bulging but it doesn't have a warm hole to enjoy... if only it wasn't attached to a worthless pervert like you! Mmm look at you squirm, you just love getting your ass destroyed, don't you? We could have been having some nice, wholesome sex, but no; you wanted to get fucking abused! How about it this, if your useless balls don't drain themselves into your sheets within... five minutes, I'll mount it. That got your attention! I can see your sack fucking twitching already, are you going to cum just from thinking about sticking your filthy dick in me? Do it! Doitdoitdoitdoitdoit!"

Jaime jackhammers your innards with cheerful brutality, grunting with effort as her other hand ruthlessly jerks you off. She squeals in delight as your seeds voids itself onto the bed, she knew you wouldn't be able to last! Scooping up your leavings, she abruptly yanks her hand out of your now gaping ass, only to dump your own seed within you. She playfully slaps your sore balls, "Later pervert! Maybe next time I'll actually get to enjoy myself, its no fun not getting fucked. Call Jodi instead okay!"

[lanawinterscigarettes]

Hi! Would I be able to request a fic for coming out to Yelena Belova (MCU. Sorry for spelling on last name) as Aroace, please?

oh absolutely! I know there's some discourse about whether Yelena herself is "technically" aroace or not but I personally believe she is, so this fic (and everything I write with her) will reflect that. I'm not aroace so if there's anything inaccurate please let me know and I'll make sure to change it. hope you like it! <3

A Lot More Similar (platonic! Yelena Belova x reader)

Warnings: Yelena calls the reader "dude" but it's meant in a casual gender neutral way, very brief and mild swearing, Yelena and the reader drink beer in this

"Hey, Yelena, can I talk to you about something?" You asked somewhat nervously, giving her a glance.

You were both sitting on the couch watching trashy reality TV and making fun of the people on it when you were suddenly hit with the urge to come out to her. You figured that now was as good of a time as ever, and that you were as ready as you'd ever be.

"Yeah, sure. What's up?" She asked casually, not having noticed how nervous you were.

You took a deep breath, trying to collect your thoughts before continuing. "I- I think I'm aroace. Actually, no, that's wrong. I am aroace." You tried to be confident when you spoke, even though you were terrified to hear her reaction.

Much to your surprise, she just shrugged and said, "Okay."

"Really?" You asked in confusion.

Yelena snorted in laughter before responding. "No, I hate you. Get out of my house." She said sarcastically while pointing towards the door.

You had to laugh, realizing just how ridiculous it was for anyone to not be accepted just for being themself. "Wait, but seriously, though. You're really okay with it?"

"Yeah, dude, of course." She took a swig of her beer before leaning back on the sofa again. "Why would I have a problem with it? Hell, I'm aroace."

"You are?" It was difficult to hide the surprise in your voice, causing Yelena to laugh again.

"Of course I am. I mean, it's not something I like to make a big deal of, but I don't exactly plan on really hiding it, either."

You nodded your head as you started to understand where Yelena was coming from. "Yeah, that makes sense. I guess we're a lot more similar than I thought."

She made a sound of agreement. "Yup, we're both aroace, we both like pizza and beer, and we both hate crappy reality shows."

Laughing, you held up your beer bottle. "I'll drink to that."

Yelena smiled, lifting up her own drink. "Cheers."

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[gingerylangylang1979]

This shit is not new

This is in response to the multiple posts right now about the recent articles that have come out and just general angst about this ship in the media.

This really isn't new. It's not unique to The Bear. It's not unique to Carmy x Sydney. It's not unique to slow burns.

I do think Mulder x Scully is the best example. Why? They are the ship that modernized shipping. The terms shipping, noromo, etc. come from that ship. They pioneered the modern "why can't men and women just be friends", "platonic soulmate", "it would cheapen the show", "the show isn't about romance" arguments.

Syd x Carmy are like Mulder x Scully 2.0 (with a slightly different flavor that I will get to). The X-Files was a huge sleeper hit with a cult following. From the first episode there was speculation about romance and people raging against it. The question was brought up in every interview and denied by the show runner. The intensity kept developing until finally they went canon. And then, only then, did the show runner change tune. Shippers felt they were being persecuted for even mentioning the ship. It was super intense.

I watched the show as a teen. I low key did ship them but wasn't involved in fandom so I wasn't aware of the shenanigans. But I know all of this from first hand accounts.

And here's receipts from media:

So, I know a big element is missing in this comparison. The race element is at play here. I'm not denying that. But I will say, I started with this example just to show it isn't just interracial couples that get this backlash. I could also mention Ted x Rebecca, but I don't think I need to go into them because they are current. Mulder x Scully started this and history is important.

I do think there is a special flavor of dislike for this ship because of race. I've spoken on it. The unwarranted hate for Sydney can't be ignored. The same has happened with Richonne, Ichabbie, etc. No denial here. But if you look at the overall history of shipping what we are seeing specific to media denial, media scrutiny, antis, denial of the ship until the very end, gaslighting, etc. is slow burn and shipping war 101.

There is no agenda from cast and crew to stick it to us. Their agenda is to maintain the element of surprise and tell the story they want to tell. There is no agenda from the media to do anything but get a story that gets clicks. There is no special denial of a romance unique to this one.

This is just how a slow burn plays out.

There are no slow burns that went canon and the show runner said, oh yeah, this is the plan before the end. If there is tell me, and I'll gladly correct. But, that just isn't reality. They will say the same thing every season until it happens, no matter what happens on screen in the meantime. And there is always some lame statement made about why they "suddenly" decided to make it a thing or a lame admission that it was planned. So basically, they lie. The lies may seem cruel but it's not personal. It's not some secret agenda to deny your fave romance and happiness. It's just showbiz.

All of this can feel personal in relation to the extent a fan is personally invested. And I think that's up to each person to decide if their investment is creating too high an expectation and too much drama for regarding fictional characters on a tv show. That's not on media. It's not on the actor, creators, journalists, etc. to determine and protect a fan's level of investment or engagement. Nobody has to read the articles. Nobody has to devote their time to fandom. It's a choice. And part of that, may be understanding that all of the media around a ship isn't going to cater to what you want or see and making decisions on what you see is the healthiest, most enjoyable way to engage or not.

Because feelings have been hurt, arguments have raged, lies have been told in fandom and media and it's not new, it's not personal. It just is what it is.

Mulder x Scully walked so Carmy x Sydney can run.

[roadhogsbigbelly]

you can say what you want now but you decided to start this campaign because she said stardew valley isn’t anti-capitalist. you targeted a trans woman for pedojacketing because she criticized your cozy farms game.

ok let me get this straight.i did not criticize her because she didn't like the ideology in stardew valley. i thought her take on incest shipping was dumb before that, it's why i made this post

i made this before i even saw the stardew valley take. and when i did post a take on it it it didn't use names and censored the names in the post i showed. as for it being a "targeted harassment campaign" my inital post only got like 70 notes before i deleted it and i didn't really expect she'd see it all. it wasn't until i woke up with death threats in my inbox that i realized she found out she saw it.

and i'm not saying i received death threats to try to garner sympathy, death threats are bad obviously, but even people who deserve to be harshly criticized receive death threats, doesn't mean they deserve it, but it doesn't suddenly make other criticism invalid. i'm mentioning said death threats because i genuinely would of not have made any more posts discussing this if i wasn't informed anyone important actually saw it.

i'm not sure how popular txttletale is, she regularly get's posts in the 20k but to be so do i sometimes? although most of my posts about this situation only get like 40 to 200 notes which them being split by positive and negative engagement, while her posts about the situation seem to get around 1k to 3k notes with most of them being positive? so it seems more people generally agree with her than me, which isn't to say that automatically "makes me in the right" or "the underdog" but you can see why i feel the need to defend myself and "double down" right?

like this isn't this first time i've been "harassed at a massive scale" but calling THIS that is admittedly an overstatement considering i've only recieved like 3 death threats and accusations of transmisogyny when i've gone through WAY worse, like when i got harrassed and sent death threats and drawn cp for saying "the arby waifu" is cringe (look that up), or sent deaths threats by radfems for linking an essay written by a trans woman that i thought was a great discussion on gender, or sent death threats for radfems for saying that i thought sex work was alright. oh also i got harrassed by pewdiepie fans but does anyone even remember him? so like yeah comparatively this is nothing

the only reason this DOES sting is because i've lost some mutuals over this, not even because "they chose her over me" or other dumb shit like that but because they were just tired of seeing the discourse which fair enough.

and to be honest i don't really think txttletale is like. a bad person or whatever. i'm sure she has been harrassed before, and i do genuinely respect some of her opinions like her more nuanced takes on ai or sex work or whatever. to be honest i wouldn't have made a big deal about the stardew valley take if it wasn't for that one incest post which is what i'm stuck on because they're are a ton of bloggers on here that i otherwise respect who occasional endorse or parrot beliefs i think suck because it doesn't have a big glowing "pedophilia is bad" button on it. i don't hate the take because SHE agreed with it, i think the take is bad no matter who it's coming from. i hate this idea that "age play" or "incest shipping" exist in a bubble because it doesn't, i do genuinely know people who were hurt by it, and it's just really sad seeing people i otherwise respect who seem to care about homophobia or transphobia or racism in media kind of just dismiss concerns of post's that could be potentially endorsing shitty beliefs. it's tiring.

so uh. yeah i guess that's it? any more questions?

[gothhabiba]

dont feel obligated to answer this at all; I'm sort of just musing but also really appreciate your thoughtfulness on here and wondered if you have any thoughts.

with "terminally online" often being used as a dismissal, would it serve us better to reframe complaints about the reactivity/bad faith (which at least in my spaces are what I notice get classified as terminally online) as conversations about how to improve online discourse? instead of dismissing it?

I do think there is a real difference in tone and approach in online conversations than in offline, and that online conversations can often lean towards taking others in bad faith because there are less consequences to doing so than in person. or seek to gain clout in a way that isnt as possible in casual offline conversations.

But I also recognize the importance of online spaces for disabled folks or just for people who maybe don't have the time to be engaged in physical spaces that discuss things like politics and activism. and its worth making our online spaces better for everyone.

I guess I just wonder what might be a way to approach the real problems present in online discourse spaces besides the dismissal that comes with insisting a take is just "terminally online" and leaving it at that.

Earlier (after you sent this ask) I reblogged another ask I had answered a while back regarding the phrase "terminally online" that might get into some of this!

Yeah, I definitely don't believe that there aren't any differences between online and physical spaces, or that we shouldn't talk about said differences--both the ones that may be inherent to at-a-distance communication, and the ones that may have more to do with how we think about online communication or how social media and other forms of at-a-distance communication are practically organised. But I will note that in-person groups are not immune to any of the criticisms that such a conversation might involve--people destroy popular movements by clout-chasing (i.e. viewing the accrual of power and influence as their primary goal--whether formal or informal influence depends on the structure of the organisation in question) or through interpersonal abuse, escalation of interpersonal conflict, ostracisation of people they think they can get away with ostracising (because they're trans women or Black or just weird or something and so people are more likely to view them as the aggressors of whatever situation).

So if what one wants to posit is that "online spaces" (which ones?) are more prone to bad-faith readings, immediate ostracisation or hostility, clout-chasing, &c. than "in-person spaces" (which ones?), I guess my questions are 1. how would you prove that? Is it a falsifiable statement / what are the conditions that we would have to meet to be able to claim that the statement had been proven in a way that wasn't just anecdotal? How do you divide "online" and "irl" spaces up in order to be able to compare them (what's the status of "online spaces" that arise out of in-person groups, e.g. workplace slack channels, club groupchats? Are large social media platforms considered to be in the same experimental group as these things, and if not, why not)? and 2. (more importantly) what's the use of making this statement? What does it allow us to say that we wouldn't be able to get at otherwise?

I'm not sure what the answer to 1. is, but the more I think about 2. I think the answer is that this type of statement isn't particularly useful. It's enough to say that online spaces are prone to misreadings or hostile readings in ways that may in part arise from the fact that they are at-a-distance, and in part from how they are practically organised (by which I mean, the possible behaviours on whatever social media site we're talking about). And now suddenly we're getting somewhere, because describing exactly what it is about this space that could lead to hostility is probably going to be useful in trying to counteract it. Off the top of my head:

The ability to reblog or retweet can push a take far outside of its intended context. Do I know anything about the other political viewpoints of the OP that would help me to contextualise what they're saying here? Does it seem like this post was written in response to a particular argument or event that isn't as immediate for me? What kinds of argument does it seem like the OP is seeing a lot of / what kinds of experience does it seem like they often have? Could this make their frame of reference different from mine?

I may be assuming that someone knows the etiquette on a given platform well enough to intuit that a reblog/quote retweet is considered more or less hostile than a reply/comment, whether screenshotting is considered a polite avoidance of conflict or a rude talking-behind-someone's-back, &c. &c. Should I be making that assumption?

I may be assuming that any given person is writing in their native language, and is otherwise pretty much aware of how their tone will come off to someone else reading their writing or to me in particular. But is that a fair assumption? How does the English-dominated nature of social media constrain the rules of engagement?

I tend to believe that someone who's come back with a false idea of my post's main argument is not even trying to understand what I'm saying. But is it fair to assume that everyone has a high degree of literacy?

A lot of different kinds of statement or argument (self-consciously political, solely personal, &c.) can co-exist on one website or on one person's blog without necessarily broadcasting their intended audience or scope (like, a political post or a personal post could "look" the same). What are the actual, immediate, material stakes of the conversation someone is trying to have? Am I wrongly assuming that someone else is attributing actual stakes to something that they intended as musing? How much does it matter if this person and I disagree about this? Does this disagreement prevent us from agreeing about other things?

If I do fundamentally disagree with someone about something I think is important, what action (of the range of actions the platform makes possible) should I take about it? What does it seem like the developers probably intended (e.g. unfollowing, blacklisting a post, blocking, reporting), and what informal or user-driven models do I have for what to do (the "call-out post" comes to mind)? What is the ideal end goal of each of these actions (to stop engaging with this person? to get my followers to stop engaging with them?), and what is the actual result of each of these actions likely to be? Which is to ask--am I writing a post about x user because I actually want them to be ostracised or whatever (by whom?), or because I believe it's just "what one does" when you encounter substantial disagreement? What has given me that model?

and so on and so on.

[asgardwinter]

Happy blogversary baby!! Heres a little request for you <3

Prom Queen by Beach Bunny*, Steve Harrington, and "Trust Me"

*No specific line, just whatever resonates :)

thank you, Kenz! <3 i hope you enjoy what i came up with...

out of my league

summary | Robin was tired of it, it was about time someone did something about you and Steve.

pairing | Steve Harrington x fem!Reader

warnings | insecure!reader, Steve is very cute in this one, very slight angst (blink and you’ll miss it), fluffy ending

word count | 1k (yeah, so this happened…)

author’s note | so… here we go with the first request! <3 i consider this to be set somewhere in between season 3 ending and the beggining of the 4th season, so it’s free from spoilers :)

song: prom queen by beach bunny / prompt: "Trust me"

Steve Harrington Masterlist | join the taglist! | Main Masterlist

“If I was pretty I bet he’d like me.” You spat one day at the video store.

“Wait, did I miss something?” Robin looked away from the small pile of tapes that were on the counter you were busy leaning on.

There was no need to respond, because the second she noticed where — or more like whom — you’ve been staring for the past five or ten minutes. Steve kept trying to charm the pretty girl since she walked inside the store, maybe even before she stepped inside.

“I do not have the patience for this right now. How many times have I told you to trust me?” Your friend mumbled under her breath rolling her eyes at the common scene she would always watch unfold. “You know, I really have to repeat myself but you…”

“Don’t you start with the whole ‘You should take a chance’ this and ‘You don’t see how he looks at you’ that.” You straighten yourself, maybe that was a way to get the lingering sadness from your mind. “It’s been months, Robin. Months. If I was one of those pretty girls like Nancy or... or... her!” You ended the same discourse with the same discrete pointing at Steve’s victim.

“You two have absolutely no right to judge me on my rants about pretty band girl.” She collected the tapes from the counter and started to walk around and place them in the right places. “I’ll remember to say that the next time you tell me ‘Robin, it’s so obvious’ or anything like it.”

“But you know…”

“Shhhh!” She shushed you. “No right, remember? No right!”

You raised your hands in defeat, lost in the playful banter with Robin you didn’t even notice Steve’s focus of attention leaving the store, so that the only entertainment besides doing your jobs was to test your and Robin’s patience. You loved it.

“What’s ‘no right’?” Steve asked, tilting his head as your focus suddenly turned from the two of them to the computer in front of you.

“You too!” Robin pointed at Steve. “Don’t even get me started on you!”

“Do you know what’s all that about?” Steve whispered to you.

“Long story. I think you’re better off with that friend of yours.” Why did you do that? Hurting yourself in your own words was stupidity, but you did it anyway. “Any luck today, King Steve?”

“Don’t you start.” He sighed. “But no. Zero luck. Least than zero.”

“One day the luck will get to you.” You said, still avoiding eye contact.

Steve shrugged and walked to the back of the store leaving you and Robin alone at the front.

“Please, I beg you, just ask this poor man out? That will be the key to seeing his eyes bright again.” Robin dramatized it and you only shaked your head.

There was no way he’d agree with going out on a date with you that wasn’t out of pity. There was also no way you’d ask him out.

“If you ask Steve out I’ll talk to the pretty girl.” Robin proposed in a moment of insanity.

“What?”

“You heard me, it’s a one time proposition. But think wisely because I’ll still keep insisting on this even if you deny…”

“Okay, I’ll do it.” You said.

In the end, you could always do it as a joke.

“Actually, I’m doing it now.” You sent her a smirk and walked to the back of the store, each step you took the anxiety grew.

It would all be a joke and then later you would be able to see Robin taking a chance on her romance possibility.

“Hey, Steve.” You said, leaning on the door to the back room as casually as you could.

“Oh, hi!” He said looking back at you with that breathtaking smile… focus!

“I was thinking, we work at a movie store but almost never get to see the movies.” You started, almost giving up when he gave you his full attention. It was better to spill it out before the rambling started. “So I thought: you, me, movies on a Saturday night. How does it sound?”

“Like a… date?” Steve needed to confirm. What was happening all of a sudden?

“Yup.” That was the longest thing you could say at that moment.

Steve stood there, looking at you and trying to examine every single wrinkle in your face. Maybe he was so shocked you dared to ask him out that he couldn't answer, or maybe he was afraid to hurt you — he was just that nice —, also could have been the…

“You and me?” He pointed between you both and you could feel yourself shrink towards the ground with shame.

“That was the idea.” You whispered, having no idea how your voice got out. It was the moment to tell him it was a prank, you needed to say it there or it would all be ruined forever. “Got…”

“So Robin was really right.” His words cut you off just in time with a genuine smile as he took a step closer to you.

“What?”

“She said I should ask you out, that you’d say yes but I didn’t believe it.”

“Well, if you lower your standards I bet you’d be going out a lot more.” You laughed at him.

“I don’t think that’s the case. Do you see, there’s this very nice girl that works with me and I just thought she was way out of my league.” Steve was close enough to hold your hands and that’s what he did, making your heart race even more — if that was possible.

“Well, Robin is quite out of your league.” You said, avoiding his intense look.

“I think you know I’m not talking about Robin.”

You finally built up the courage to look at him, really look at him. The way his eyes didn’t leave yours and how gentle his hold in your hand was.

“So… I’m guessing this is a ‘yes’ for you, me and movies on Saturday night.” You said unsure but happy nonetheless.

“You’re guessing right.” Steve smiled even more.

send a request for our blurb festival! 🎉

[wavesoutbeingtossed]

I have thoughts about the TTPD speculation/two years/loneliness/sharing feelings through songs train but I'm putting them under a cut because. Yeah.

OK, so I'm giving a warning:

I'm talking about BTTWS, but NOT about the speculation/inspiration behind it. Just about the feelings in it and the Midnights of it all/the idea that sharing the difficult things brings comfort/companionship. So getting that out of the way so we can remove that part of the discourse out of it.

Regardless of whatever the inspiration/event behind BTTWS may be, whether it's about a loved one or personal, I've long felt that its inclusion on Midnights, an album about things that have kept her up at night, is significant in the feelings it portrays.

For instance, we can be fairly certain that Taylor wasn't actually turning in Scooter B. to the FBI and conspiring with his ex-wife to bring him down (or was she?) in Vigilante Shit, just as we can safely guess that she probably did actually pick up that pebble in Wicklow that reminded her of a peaceful time in Sweet Nothing. The line between fiction/reality, personal vs. narrative matters less on Midnights in this case than the feelings she was expressing in the songs, which are very personal and truthful. The revenge fantasy in Vigilante Shit is her working through her anger over having her masters stolen and how she's fought hard to have the last laugh over someone who is a sworn enemy. Sweet Nothing is her reflecting on the dichotomy of her (presumed) quiet home life she felt was safe and the noise of the outside world. (Now, we might speculate on why she was ruminating on this, but that's another story.)

So with that preamble out of the way, BTTWS's inclusion in the tracklist I feel is just as important, again regardless of the inspiration behind it or her personal connection to it. Even if it is a song about someone other than herself, including it as the only "not personal/not diaristic" song on an album as ostensibly self-reflective as Midnights would stick out if that were thecase, though obviously it's her album so she can do whatever she wants and could have her own reasons. (Just like she included Ronan on Red and Soon You'll Get Better on Lover about similar themes, it could just be a tribute to a loved one.) But given all the thematic arcs and parallels on Midnights, I do feel like it's there to include a specific set of feelings being processed, even if the origin on the feelings may or may not be her own. (I'm trying to be really sensitive in my word choices here, hope they make sense.)

BTTWS is a song about loss and grief, and specifically the fallout of an event outside of her/the narrator's control. The person in the song has nothing to turn to to deal with their pain: no faith to guide them, no wisdom to tell them everything will be alright. Throughout the song there is a pervasive sense of isolation: everything is over, they're living without something that was once theirs but suddenly was not. It captures the fog and confusion of living through a painful event without having any way to process. She even says from the start that, "no words appear before me in the aftermath," which for someone like Taylor who has stated over and over how writing is literally how she processes her life would be the ultimate reflection of the depths of her hurt.

(To be clear I do not think this is a song about a breakup whatsoever: IMO it clearly is not about a relationship dissolution of any kind. I just think that the feelings of grief and loneliness in the song may have felt relevant to whatever she was going through during the time the album was coalescing in 2021-22.)

Knowing what we know now about at the very least the period between 2021-2023, Taylor was going through a time of significant difficulty in her life behind the scenes, which is how The Tortured Poets Department came to be, right on the heels of her completing Midnights sometime in early 2022. She has said herself that making TTPD was a lifeline, that she had to keep writing to deal with whatever it was that she was experiencing and going through. And as I posted about earlier today, she's also said repeatedly on tour that not only is writing about her feelings how she processes her pain and loneliness, but that then sharing that music with fans brings her great comfort because it makes her feel less lonely to know people understand and relate to what she's going through.

And we know that she has self-edited her albums over the years (including Midnights) to protect herself and perhaps even the subjects of her songs, which we have seen with the inclusion of the vault/bonus tracks in the re-records and on Midnights. Obviously some of these reasons are logistical -- album was too long, cut songs sounded too much like others, maybe she or her producers felt the ones that were originally chosen were stronger, narrative or sonic cohesion, etc. -- but with what we've seen over the last few years, these songs also filled in the lines of the stories being told and reframed the narrative being told.

Nowhere is that clearer than with You're Losing Me, for example. It's pretty obvious why it was held back: presumably she wouldn't want to release a song about a relationship at its breaking point when she was still actively in the relationship. Yet as soon as the relationship ended, she released it, we can only assume because of her realization that sharing the music and having people respond to it validates her feelings and makes her feel embraced, as it were. Then with the announcement of TTPD and how it's been brewing for essentially the intervening period between when YLM was written and now, we can also surmise that these songs will be dealing with feelings she also felt the need to hold back for whatever reason at the time, but has now decided should be out there so she can feel more whole.

So coming back to BTTWS, it being included on Midnights the way that it was strikes me as a form of sharing feelings that may have been too difficult to process. Again, not implying I have any insight into what the origin of the song is about, or imposing my own beliefs onto her, or that she was sending some sort of secret message with its inclusion! But thematically, BTTWS deals with an intense loss and feeling completely unmoored and alone as a result, which is present in her other work. And that the dreams the narrator once held have gone up in smoke, leaving her reeling about what's to come next. She's cut off from the world because of the event, unable to speak about or grasp what has happened. Similar feelings are also explored in You're Losing Me for instance, and even Dear Reader (not to mention on past albums like evermore, this is my trying, arguably hoax, etc.). Just reading context clues from TTPD and her surprise song choices of late, I don't think it's outrageous to presume some of those emotions are going to be present on the new album as well.

So this is just a long-winded way of saying, I feel like the sense of loss, confusion and uncertainty about the future likely resonated with both what she had gone through in the past, and the story as a whole she was trying to tell on Midnights. And while the origin may or may not be personal or relevant to the new story she's going to tell, I also feel like these same kinds of themes are going to be present on TTPD because they're so important for her to share. (I could even mention that the response to BTTWS may even provide evidence that people sharing their experiences in general brings comfort to those going through it, but that may be veering too far into parasocial "why did Taylor do X" speculative territory.) She sings about these kinds of all-consuming losses so eloquently and mindfully that I know the new album is going to be an absolute gut punch.

(not being self-promotional but I delved a little deeper into the Midnights 3am tracks including this one a few months ago so it's why it's top of mind and why the connections and thematic parallels are so resonant to me lately.)

[tezuze]

Hi I’m gonna rant about Ghost Game for a second

Not to meaning to add to the endless “What the hell happened to Ghost Game????” discourse but uh, yeah I guess I am contributing to that

I have quite a bit to say about my theories on what I think went wrong and what they could’ve done better and why I desperately do not want a season 2 (I know the irony of how that looks on me) but if I wrote all that in one space I think it would be so long that even I would start begging for me to shut up

So, I’m going to split these up into more digestible categories that I’ll write whenever I’m procrastinating

In case I never get around to anything else, I’m going to start with the biggest loss to me, how I think the Digimon were supposed to influence their tamer’s personal growth and visa-versa

I’ll put the rest below the cut before I get outta hand

Hiro and Gammamon: Augh. These two frustrate me the most. So much lost potential in my book, but I would feel weird putting the mc anywhere but the top of the list, so I decided to put them in the order they join the cast and therefore you get my most passionate feelings first.

Almost one of the first things we learn about Hiro as a character is how self-sacrificing he is. He’s your stereotypical mc who wants to help everyone, but the narrative points out that he’s willing to be helpful at the expense of his own wellbeing, which paints his conventionally good trait as a flaw. And that’s about all they touch on in the base show, with a lot of reading between the lines. I would’ve loved to see the ramifications of his self-sacrificing nature and have the cast point out how he’s really harming himself and stretching himself thin just to appease others. I don’t think the “being helpful is good, but not at the expense of your health” moral is touched on enough so I always get excited when stories have that as one of their themes.

And then there’s his partner, Gammamon, the exact opposite of Hiro. He’s needy, dependent, wild, and selfish at the start. He doesn’t care about others (or their belongings). He’s demanding. He’s destructive. He proves to be a handful for our polite little Hiro, especially with his dad missing and this responsibility suddenly thrusted upon him.

I would’ve loved to see Gammamon teach Hiro to be a little more selfish (or at least, more self-preserving), while Hiro teaches Gammamon to be more considerate and tame. Of course, we see Gammamon grow in this way but the story doesn’t really make it clear that it was necessarily Hiro’s doing or give much of a catalyst at all for why Gammamon has personal growth other than it would be troublesome to have such a brat as the main creature. Now, I know that Guilmon’s arc was kinda similar in that they didn’t have direct events or anything that would make him mature, but it still felt more… realistic? Tended to? Idk I’m going to force myself to move on.

Ruli and Angoramon: Honestly just kinda disappointed with the lack of attention these two got in general in comparison to the other pairs, but I digress.

We meet Ruli with the impression that she’s brash, headstrong, and charismatic. She does things her way on a whim. Especially in the first few and select episodes, but in my opinion, it seemed like they kinda pushed her to the background and her personality was very passive and mild at times (and I don’t think that was on purpose).

Similarly to Hiro and Gammamon, Angoramon has quite a few contrasting personality traits. He’s softspoken, knowledgeable, and introspective. When Hiro first meets Angoramon, he doesn’t want to reveal himself because he’s nervous and doesn’t want to be a bother.

I think these two were supposed to balance each other out. Ruli would learn to think about things more and not run in half-cocked, maybe start to appreciate the more slow and peaceful things in life like nature and reading (Yeah Ruli, don’t think I forgot about that scene where Angoramon wanted you to read one of his favorite books and you DIDN’T and never DID). Meanwhile, Angoramon would come out of his shell more from sticking around Ruli. Possibly learn not to be so overbearing? Idk, honestly I don’t think Angoramon has as much room for growth because he seems the most level-headed character in the cast.

Lastly,

Kiyoshiro and Jellymon: Now, I know I have some bias toward these two so it might seem I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt but I’m going to try to come at them as objectively as I can.

They kinda half-executed what I think they were going for with these two, so they don’t offend me as much (which I think is part of the reason why I like them so much), but a full written out arc between them would’ve been a dream.

Kiyoshiro at the beginning of the series is, well, a sniveling inconsolable scaredy cat. On top of that, he’s kind of cocky and stuck up, obsessed with order and somewhat an introvert (to a lesser extent and differently than angoramon, in the “can’t relate to other humans” kinda way). Outside of his flaws, he is at least kind and pure of heart (I mean his name more or less means “pure white”) with a strong sense of justice and morals.

Jellymon, the devil creature, is so chaotic her intro episode goes right for the “everyone is going to die and it’s all Jellymon’s fault” thing. She has her moments of scheming and kinda like Gammamon, is pretty selfish and demanding with hints of Ruli’s recklessness as well.

As far as their canonic growth goes, Jellymon’s the only one that sees the bravery in her darling, which helps him nurture that courage and cast aside some of his fears (which, yay they actually kinda do in the series albeit pretty indirectly and kinda inconsistently). Also, the narrative never outright says Kiyo is lonely but he surely doesn’t have any companions, but we can see him grow on his partner and admit that it’s nice to have such a close friendship (pretty sure the whole “I like humans” thing was directed at Jellymon, even though she’s not human shhhhh it makes sense I promise)

Now for what they didn’t really touch on, I think these two were supposed to break each other’s stubbornness. I think Jellymon was supposed to show Kiyo how to relax more and not become so absorbed in studies/research and such. We meet him already knowing he has a love for anime, idols and the like so I’m not sure if he could really learn the lesson to appreciate more of the little things, but maybe she’d show him to love some more like, people-centered type things? (I mean she does love festivals). On the flip side, I think Kiyo was supposed to use not his classroom knowledge, but his personal knowledge to show Jellymon all there is to love about humanity outside of their monetary worth and give her a genuine love for the human world. Oh yeah, and teach her to stop scamming people.

“”””I’m gOinG tO tRy To LiMiT mY BiAs oN KiYoSHiRo aNd jElLyMoN”””””””” *Proceeds to spend half my rant talking about Kiyoshiro and Jellymon even though I think they did them pretty well*

Anyway, would love to hear other’s opinions on this as well as if it seems like I’m reaching and there weren’t supposed to be arcs like this. I just feel like the characters are too inherently flawed and contrast too perfectly with their Digimon for them not to have intended some more character-centered personal growth arcs.

I’m sorry and thank you for reading my dumb thoughts.