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lurkingteapot · 1 year

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Every now and then I think about how subtitles (or dubs), and thus translation choices, shape our perception of the media we consume. It's so interesting. I'd wager anyone who speaks two (or more) languages knows the feeling of "yeah, that's what it literally translates to, but that's not what it means" or has answered a question like "how do you say _____ in (language)?" with "you don't, it's just … not a thing, we don't say that."

I've had my fair share of "[SHIP] are [married/soulmates/fated/FANCY TERM], it's text!" "[CHARACTER A] calls [CHARACTER B] [ENDEARMENT/NICKNAME], it's text!" and every time. Every time I'm just like. Do they though. Is it though. And a lot of the time, this means seeking out alternative translations, or translation meta from fluent or native speakers, or sometimes from language learners of the language the piece of media is originally in.

Why does it matter? Maybe it doesn't. To lots of people, it doesn't. People have different interests and priorities in fiction and the way they interact with it. It's great. It matters to me because back in the early 2000s, I had dial-up internet. Video or audio media that wasn't available through my local library very much wasn't available, but fanfiction was. So I started to read English language Gundam Wing fanfic before I ever had a chance to watch the show. When I did get around to watching Gundam Wing, it was the original Japanese dub. Some of the characters were almost unrecognisable to me, and first I doubted my Japanese language ability, then, after checking some bits with friends, I wondered why even my favourite writers, writers I knew to be consistent in other things, had made these characters seem so different … until I had the chance to watch the US-English dub a few years later. Going by that adaptation, the characterisation from all those stories suddenly made a lot more sense. And the thing is, that interpretation is also valid! They just took it a direction that was a larger leap for me to make.

Loose adaptations and very free translations have become less frequent since, or maybe my taste just hasn't led me their way, but the issue at the core is still a thing: Supernatural fandom got different nuances of endings for their show depending on the language they watched it in. CQL and MDZS fandom and the never-ending discussions about 知己 vs soulmate vs Other Options. A subset of VLD fans looking at a specific clip in all the different languages to see what was being said/implied in which dub, and how different translators interpreted the same English original line. The list is pretty much endless.

And that's … idk if it's fine, but it's what happens! A lot of the time, concepts -- expressed in language -- don't translate 1:1. The larger the cultural gap, the larger the gaps between the way concepts are expressed or understood also tend to be. Other times, there is a literal translation that works but isn't very idiomatic because there's a register mismatch or worse. And that's even before cultural assumptions come in. It's normal to have those. It's also important to remember that things like "thanks I hate it" as a sentiment of praise/affection, while the words translate literally quite easily, emphatically isn't easy to translate in the sense anglophone internet users the phrase.

Every translation is, at some level, a transformative work. Sometimes expressions or concepts or even single words simply don't have an exact equivalent in the target language and need to be interpreted at the translator's discretion, especially when going from a high-context/listener-responsible source language to a low-context/speaker-responsible target language (where high-context/listener responsible roughly means a large amount of contextual information can be omitted by the speaker because it's the listener's responsibility to infer it and ask for clarification if needed, and low-context/speaker-responsible roughly means a lot of information needs to be codified in speech, i.e. the speaker is responsible for providing sufficiently explicit context and will be blamed if it's lacking).

Is this a mouse or a rat? Guess based on context clues! High-context languages can and frequently do omit entire parts of speech that lower-context/speaker-responsible languages like English regard as essential, such as the grammatical subject of a sentence: the equivalent of "Go?" - "Go." does largely the same amount of heavy lifting as "is he/she/it/are you/they/we going?" - "yes, I am/he/she/it is/we/you/they are" in several listener-responsible languages, but tends to seem clumsy or incomplete in more speaker-responsible ones. This does NOT mean the listener-responsible language is clumsy. It's arguably more efficient! And reversely, saying "Are you going?" - "I am (going)" might seem unnecessarily convoluted and clumsy in a listener-responsible language. All depending on context.

This gets tricky both when the ambiguity of the missing subject of the sentence is clearly important (is speaker A asking "are you going" or "is she going"? wait until next chapter and find out!) AND when it's important that the translator assign an explicit subject in order for the sentence to make sense in the target language. For our example, depending on context, something like "are we all going?" - "yes" or "they going, too?" might work. Context!

As a consequence of this, sometimes, translation adds things – we gain things in translation, so to speak. Sometimes, it's because the target language needs the extra information (like the subject in the examples above), sometimes it's because the target language actually differentiates between mouse and rat even though the source language doesn't. However, because in most cases translators don't have access to the original authors, or even the original authors' agencies to ask for clarification (and in most cases wouldn't get paid for the time to put in this extra work even if they did), this kind of addition is almost always an interpretation. Sometimes made with a lot of certainty, sometimes it's more of a "fuck it, I've got to put something and hope it doesn't get proven wrong next episode/chapter/ten seasons down" (especially fun when you're working on a series that's in progress).

For the vast majority of cases, several translations are valid. Some may be more far-fetched than others, and there'll always be subjectivity to whether something was translated effectively, what "effectively" even means …

ANYWAY. I think my point is … how interesting, how cool is it that engaging with media in multiple languages will always yield multiple, often equally valid but just sliiiiightly different versions of that piece of media? And that I'd love more conversations about how, the second we (as folks who don't speak the material's original language) start picking the subtitle or dub wording apart for meta, we're basically working from a secondary source, and if we're doing due diligence, to which extent do we need to check there's nothing substantial being (literally) lost -- or added! -- in translation?

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yuurei20 · 2 months

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Dialogue Comparison: Cloudcalling Event (pt2/3)

Interestingly, Leona’s original opening line in the event is “This world is unfair,” which is different from his Main Story line of “life is unfair.”

EN changed the event line to match his line from the main story.

Original Leona: It's a relief I can just get to the point. The reason I invited you all is...

EN Leona: It's nice bein' surrounded by schemers. Makes things quicker. The reason I want you all with me is...

Leona uses a word to describe Lilia that means something close to “elusive,” which EN localized as “phantom.”

In the original game Lilia uses the same word to describe himself in Book 5 and again during Halloween.

(The original game uses a different word when using kanji for "phantoms.")

The Japanese language can be very context dependent, and in this line Leona's phrasing does not technically confirm or deny that Vil enrolled a year after him.

In EN’s phrasing it might sound a little like they enrolled at NRC at the same time, but they didn’t.

Original Lilia: No matter what I wear, it suits me. I am so devilishly charming.

EN Lilia: I have a way of forcing things to suit me.

(Thank you to the onderful @/irafuwas for your help with this translation! ♡)

Original Vil: Oh, the same name as Jack.

EN Vil: Like, Jack? How funny.

The word 綺麗 (きれい / kirei) can mean beautiful or pretty depending on context, and EN uses both interpretations during the event.

This make the choices made with Kalim’s discovery of diamond bracelets (changed to rings on EN) all the more interesting:

Original Kalim: Ah! This bracelet is so shiny and pretty!

EN Kalim: Wow! Look at this sparkly ring!

Original Lilia: Jamil "too"? Are you giving one to someone else, as well?

EN Lilia: "Especially"? Who else are you getting these rings for?

Original Kalim: Yeah! Receiving something so pretty will make them happy.

EN Kalim: Of course! They love shiny things.

Original Kalim: ...these colorful bracelets are even prettier.

EN Kalim: ...Wait, look at THESE colorful rings. They’re even shinier!

Original Grim: The diamond bracelet I thought I was gonna get turned into a glass bracelet...

EN Grim: I almost got me a diamond ring…

#twstdialogue #twisted wonderland #tamashna muina #tamashina mina #twst translations

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notfreetoday · 11 months

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MPW Ep 6 Subtitle Corrections

Masterlist: EP 1 || EP 2 || EP 3 || EP 4 || EP 5 ||

Y: 正直言って　怖い近づく度に　心臓が跳ねるから何なら近寄らないで欲しい住む世界が違うから好かれたいとかは思わないただ。。。嫌われてしまったら死んでしまうかもしれない想像するだけで　胃液がせり上がった Y: To be honest, I was scared. Because whenever he came close to me, my heart leapt and skipped a beat. I wished that, if possible, he wouldn't come near me because we lived in different worlds. 'I want him to like me' - I never had a thought like that. It was just... If he ended up hating me then I felt like I might die. Just thinking about it made my stomach turn.

We've seen for awhile that Yoh's fear that Segasaki will one day come to disdain him is what keeps him from voicing his thoughts out loud - but it is in Ep 6 that we truly learn the intensity with which Yoh feels, and come to understand why that fear overwhelms him to the point that he is incapable of hearing Segasaki's love for him.

Or, Yoh sees Segasaki for the first time and literally starts spouting poetry in the way only a visual artist can. Get ready for a lot of interaction breakdowns - this episode tells us quite a lot about these two! Same translation disclaimer applies, Ep 6, let's go!

S: 相変わらず　歩くの遅ぇな S: As usual, he walks so slowly

Y: あのさ　実は Y: 出てくるときにケンカしちゃって M: え？どうしたの Y: お前の仕事なんてどうでもいいって言われた M: 瀬ケ崎さんが？そんなこと言ったの？ Y: どうでもいいって　なんだよ Y: 人が一所懸命やってることに対して* Y: 最低だよ　あいつ* Y: You know... actually Y: When I was leaving we got into an argument M: Huh? What happened? Y: I was told "I don't care at all about something like your work" M: By Segasaki-san? He said something like that? Y: "I don't care at all"... what's with that! Y: To say that about something that someone is giving their all for...* Y: He's the worst, that guy** **Yoh uses あいつ (aitsu) to refer to Segasaki as "that guy". This is again considered rude, though is often used amongst male friends as well (like calling someone an asshole/bastard). He tends to use this word to refer to Segasaki in his head, especially when he's annoyed with him.

*Just like at the end of Ep 5, where Yoh emphasizes that he will become someone who can earn more as opposed to just earning more, here Yoh specifies that he is upset with Segasaki's response to his work, rather than being upset with the response being directed at himself, as the original subs imply. It's a small difference but I think it's important because it fits with his entire character. He has consistently only been triggered by comments about his work, not about him as a person. Yoh is self-conscious and sensitive about his work, because he sees competence as a measure of worth. It's precisely because he ties his self-worth to his work that he falls into such a deep depression in Ep 5, and it is the same reason why Yoh does not understand what good Segasaki could possibly see in him - after all, there is no merit in just being who he is, only in the work that he can do.

Y: いや　それは都合よく受け取り過ぎだよ Atsuya: ダヨ君　言葉って受け取り方が９割だからさ A: 同じ言葉でも　その時の気持ちやコンディションによって A: 違った意味に捻じ曲げちゃうものなんだよ A: ダヨ君が元気な時だったらもっと甘～く聞こえたんじ��ない？ Y: No, that's just over-interpreting it in my favor Atsuya (Man-san's husband): Dayo-kun, they say that about 90% of the meaning words convey comes down to the way we interpret them, so A: Depending on the way we feel, or our condition in that moment, that meaning can end up distorted and warped, even if the same words are used, you know? A: If Dayo-kun you, had been in a happier mood, might it not have sounded a lot sweeter to you?

Y: ん。。。いや、違うんです Y: 俺とあの人って　そういう感じじゃないんで Y: Mm... No, it's not like that Y: That person and I, well... that's not what it's like (between us), you see

Y: あの人を初めて見たときこの星の生き物じゃないかもしれないって思った少なくとも地球上で見たものの造形の中で一番きれいだとおもった耳の形　鼻筋　下顎角のライン　唇の膨らみきっと見えない眼球の形状まできれいなんだろうなって

Y: When I first saw that person I thought that he might not be a living thing from this planet At the very least, out of all the forms that I had ever seen on this Earth I thought he had the most beautiful one. The shape of his ears, the ridge of his nose, The line of the angle of his jaw, the full contour of his lips Even the structure of what could not be seen - the globe of his eyes - I thought for sure that too must be beautiful.

Y: 趣味で漫画は描いてたけど現実の人間を描くのは初めてだったそれに　男を描きたいと思ったのも初めてだった今　目に焼き付けて　描きつけておきたい衝動に駆られたたぶん　あの美貌と同じ空間にいたそのせいで　俺は　おかしくなっていた Y: I had drawn manga as a hobby but It was my first time drawing a real live person. And, It was also the first time that I thought "I want to draw a man" In that moment, driven by impulse, I wanted to burn his image into my eyes, to capture his likeness down on paper. Probably, it was because I was in the same space as that beauty. It was because of that, that I began to go crazy.

At 06:44, when Segasaki's green shirt classmate comes in calling his name, you can see that Yoh mouth’s "Mizuki" after he hears it.

(Btw Green Shirt later wears a Red Jacket, and is played by Nishimoto Maiki, the leader of the group Acchan is in - GENIC. Cute shot of the 3 of them here)

S: 直接何かしてくるわけではないし　別にいいと思うけど S: Well it's not like he's doing anything to us directly... I think it's fine actually

Y: 女の子が相手なら　一目惚れだとはっきり思ったかもしれないでも　ただただきれいな男だったんで自分の脳が　そこまで処理しきれなかった Y: If it was a girl Then maybe I would have clearly understood that this was love at first sight But it was just very simply, a beautiful man so My brain couldn't handle processing more than that

Most of this is not subtitled, and it’s a little muffled, but as the group walks over you can hear that Segasaki is the center of their conversation here, though he's not actually participating in it much. It speaks to the group dynamics, so I'm including it here (Segasaki is bolded):

Girl: ええ？ S: ちがうよ Red Jacket: 瑞貴じゃん、ね、今ね？ Girl どうせモテるじゃん S: いやモテない Red:モテるよ瑞貴が Girl: 告白されてるよ　どうせ Red: されてる　されてる Girl: あれ！ぼっちくん*じゃん Red: うわっ　マジだ　ぼっちくんじゃん Boy: いつも俺たちのことチラチラ見てる Girl: ちょっと来なよ　おしゃべりしたげるからさ** Girl: Whaat? S: It wasn't Red Jacket: It was (said to) Mizuki wasn't it, right? Just now? Girl: I mean you're popular anyway! S: No, I'm not Red: Mizuki's popular Girl: Whatever it is, that was a confession (you received) Red: It was, it was Girl: Oh hey! Why, isn't it Little Loner*? Red: Oh snap, you're right! It is Little Loner! Boy: The one who always sneaks looks at us Girl: Come here a bit, we'll talk to you, ok?** *ぼっちくん (Bocchi-kun) - Bocchi is slang for loner, and by adding the suffix "-kun" to it, they've turned this into a diminutive, like a nickname. It sounds cute and friendly, but is clearly meant as a casual sort of insult, so I've translated it as "Little" here. **This is an interesting line to discuss. She tells Yoh to come over, using the phrase 来なよ (kina yo) - this is the same "na" that Segasaki uses in Ep 4 actually, when he tells a drunk Yoh to go sleep in the room. It's the exact same word form, but where it was tender when Segasaki said it, it's highly insulting here - and the reason is because of the context and their (non-existant) relationship. She may be Yoh's senior, but this is the first time they're meeting, and they are nowhere near close enough that this phrasing would ever be seen as appropriate. She then tells him "we'll talk to you", using the colloquial form of "~したあげる (shita ageru)" aka "to do for you" - in other words, she's framing the action of them talking to him as if it were a gift from them to him (this word form also implies they are above him in the hierarchy). She also adds the polite prefix "O" to the word for "talk", which in this context is meant to make her appear sweet and ladylike. In other words, with just one line, she has insulted Yoh not only by talking down to him as if he were a small child or a pet, but also by insinuating that she's a sweet, lovely person who has been so kind as to deign to speak to him.

Y: あの。。。俺*　買ってきます Y: 絡まれてるより１００億倍マシだわ Y: Um... I*... will go and buy it. Y: That's definitely 100 million times better than getting harassed by them *Yoh still uses the masculine pronoun 俺 (ore) for "I" here (the same one he's used in every episode) which is remarkable for the fact that he doesn't switch to the more polite form 僕 (boku). Nowadays, it isn't really expected per se that a junior make this switch - especially since "ore" is usually the go-to pronoun for most male university students - but the switch wouldn't be surprising either, given that they are his seniors. Yoh does acknowledge their seniority when he uses the formal -masu form of the word "to buy" - but in the context of them bullying him, the choice to stick with the more masculine pronoun "ore" suggests that he isn't intimidated by them.

Red: セルフパシリって　すごくね？ Girl: やばいよ Red: He automatically offered to be an errand boy! Isn’t that crazy? Girl: It’s nuts!

パシリ(pashiri) - to be made to run errands - is slang, and it is used specifically to refer to cases where someone with more social power orders another around. It’s almost always linked to bullying or misuse of social power – so by using this word, these guys - they know exactly what they are doing.

Y: クソだよ　あいつら* Y: Those bastards*… they’re trash *Yoh uses the same word あいつ (aitsu) to refer to the gang that he did at the beginning of this episode to refer to Segasaki - once again it is the context that changes the meaning of this word. With Segasaki, it is proof that they share a close relationship. With these upper classmen that he's just met - it's definitely rude.

This is a very common form of bullying in school, and evidently, Yoh recognizes it immediately. The fact that he jumps so quickly to cooperating with it tells us sadly that this is something he's familiar with - he's likely been bullied before. This is unfortunately, unsurprising, because Yoh doesn't adhere to social norms very much. He eats alone, he stares at people, he doesn't greet his seniors properly (that slight bow is not enough, there should at least be a verbal greeting of some sort).

In my post on amae, I talked about how the interdependent self-construal means that one's ability to assimilate is seen as a value. In the same vein, people who do not fit in with the group, or who do not conform, are not looked upon favorably in Japan, because it is often assumed that they simply do not want to. It is not that they are unable to assimilate, it is that they are refusing to make an effort to be part of the group, and thus the fault and blame lies with them. Ostracization of those different therefore, is the expected consequence and punishment that the group metes out. All of us have to do our part to adhere to the rules of the group - what makes you so special that you can do your own thing? If you just did your job of fitting in like the rest of us have, well, then you wouldn't be in this position in the first place, now would you? - This sort of justification is the reason why bullying in Japan can become very, very extreme, and why despite efforts, has been so difficult to eradicate.

S: そんなに　一人で持てないだろうと思って S: 貸して Y: ありがとうございます* S: 行こう S: I thought all of that was probably going to be too much for one person to carry S: Pass it over Y: Thank you very much* S: Let's go

*Yoh uses the full, polite version of "thank you" here, and he will, for the most part, continue to use desu/masu forms with Segasaki, and answer him politely, in recognition of their senior/junior relationship. Similarly, Segasaki uses informal forms with Yoh, though he maintains a friendly demeanor and does not drop to rude forms at all, because they aren't that close yet. Note how he says 行こう (ikou) for "let's go" here - different from his present day "we're going", which leaves no room for argument.

(Also, he took the heavier bag of drinks (´ ▽｀).。ｏ♡)

S: 結構歩くのゆっくりなんだね Y: よく　言われます S: 君　名前は？ Y: あ　葉って言います　あの。。。葉っぱの S: ふーん　葉くんか Y: はい S: 俺は　 Y: 瑞貴...さん S: なんで知ってんの？ Y: あ　そう呼ばれていたので S: よく　聞いてんな Y: はあ　まあ。。。

Let's break this down to look at some social cues and nuances:

S: You walk quite leisurely, don't you? Y: I've... been told that a lot

This is more than just a callback to the beginning of the episode (or a chance to contrast how much more polite and sweet Segasaki sounds here 😂) - This is another way in which we see Yoh does not fit in. Segasaki is his senior, who has gone out of his way to come help him (never mind that Yoh's being bullied), and he should at the very least, be trying to match Segasaki's pace, not making him wait like Yoh does here. Segasaki's comment should be taken as much as an expression of surprise, as it should a cue to catch up - Yoh glances briefly at Segasaki after this line (which seems to amuse the latter) but he doesn't actually apologize outright or walk any faster. He does admit that he's been told this often - which sometimes can work as a concession, because you sort of validate what the other person is saying, but at the same time you aren't quite agreeing either. That said, it can backfire, because it means you've been made aware of your habit and yet have done nothing to change it. Segasaki doesn't seem to mind though, and actually matches Yoh's pace here.

Speaking of "pace" - "マイペース" or "my pace" is a loan word from English, and is a term used to describe someone who tends to do things, well, at their own pace, or in their own way, and who isn't bother by the people or goings-on around them. Usually meant as a benign, sometimes affectionate comment on someone's personality, it often brings to mind the image of someone who appears to drift during conversations, who might be a little "slow" in social interactions, or who physically lags behind the group. It can have negative connotations, because it means the group needs to make concessions for this person (like looking for them when they've wondered off). Yoh is the epitome of someone who is "my pace", and I'm very sure that the emphasis on his slow walking is not just a peculiar quirk of his character, it's an intentional part of the character design to show how Yoh is different.

S: *You... what's your name? Y: Ah, I'm called Yoh. Um... written with the character for "leaf" S: Hmm~ Yoh-kun huh.. Y: Yes

*Segasaki uses the polite pronoun 君 (kimi) to refer to Yoh here, as opposed to the rougher お前 (omae) that he now uses in the present day.

That little action Yoh does whilst saying "leaf" is him drawing out the kanji character for his name. It's quite common to tell someone which character is used to write your name, because the characters usually mean something, and it helps others to remember. Strictly speaking, Yoh really should be introducing his full name here, but judging by how he's been fiddling with the plastic bag, he's probably just too nervous to realize.

S: I'm Y: Mizuki...san S: Why do you know that? Y: Ah... that's what.. you were called (by them) so... S: You listen closely don't you Y: Ahh.. yea...

Nice save 😂First of all, it's extremely unusual to jump straight to using someone's first name instead of their family name (unless you're still a kid), let alone doing it to an upper classman, though Yoh does manage to tack on the polite suffix "-san" at the back. It's the verbal equivalent of stepping right into someone's personal space and touching their bag or something and then being all "er there was something there...". It's just weird and borderline inappropriate 😂 The fact that Segasaki doesn't scold him for taking such a liberty, or show any sign that he appears weirded out by it (in fact, he actually goes along with it!) tells us that Segasaki is a very kind (yasashii would be the right term here, the same term that appears at the end of this episode) or at least a very tolerant individual though I'd also like to think he just finds Yoh's strange ways a little cute too.

S: いま　楽しい？ Y: え？あ　いえ S: 絡まれて　パシらされてさ Y: ああ。。 S: どう？ Y: いや　たのしくないです Y: 瑞貴さんは？ S: 俺？ Y: はい S: 全然楽しくない S: 内緒ね Y: はい

Continuing with the breakdown:

S: Is it fun? Y: Huh? Ah no-

Segasaki's tone changes here to a more serious one - all he does is stress the final syllables of the word "fun" to indicate he's asking a question, instead of adding any end particles that might give more context, or that might soften the tone. The topic switch is a little sudden, which is why Yoh seems a bit confused. It doesn't help that the words are a little ambiguous - it literally translates to "now, fun?" - except the Japanese word for "now" is often used to mean "just now" as well, because the Japanese concept of time is not quite as linear as it is in West. "Now" doesn't just refer to "this current exact second we are in", it extends from whenever the "current activity" began right up to "this current exact second" - the key is figuring out what the current activity is 😅. Because Segasaki jumps into this topic so suddenly, and without much contextual cues, Yoh can't quite tell whether he means now, as in them walking together, or now, as in, the whole being sent on an errand thing, which is why Segasaki clarifies in the next sentence:

S: Being hassled, and sent on errands? Y: Oh... S: So? Y: No, it... isn't fun.

Segasaki watches Yoh closely whilst he waits for the answer to his question. This is Segasaki checking that Yoh knows he's being bullied, and it's also permission to talk about the topic. Once he confirms that Yoh does know what's happening, he looks away again.

The exchange tells us a lot about Segasaki's character, because often, the reason why bullying goes on for so long is that no one is willing to talk about it. Everyone knows what's going on, but no one acknowledges it. The fact that Segasaki jumps straight into it hints to Yoh that he doesn't agree with what his "friends" are doing (whether Yoh catches that hint or not is a different story). It also tells us, the audience, that he isn't afraid to speak up about things he disagrees with (similar to how he spoke up for Yoh when Yoh was sketching in the cafeteria) - but not to the extent that he'll do something which threatens the harmony of the group outright. This is tatemae/honne, which I talked about briefly in the amae post as well, and linked to this street interview video for real life examples. In short, tatemae is your ability to avoid conflict and smooth over group interactions, and is seen as an essential and positive trait. Segasaki is very good at this, even at this stage in his life, which is part of why he is so well-liked.

Y: What about Mizuki-san? S: Me? Y: Yes S: I'm not having fun at all S: It's a secret, yea? Y: Yes

This is cute, and tells us about Yoh's character too. Firstly, he's still persisting in his use of "Mizuki-san", though he's being really tentative about it, like he's testing whether or not it's okay. Secondly, he's actually asking Segasaki directly to confirm his stand on what his "friends" are doing. Is this Yoh being daring, or just his slightly awkward, somewhat tactless self? I couldn't tell you 🤣 It's likely a bit of both.

In response, you can hear the surprise in Segasaki's voice, but he doesn't hesitate to detach himself from the actions of the group. The way he invites Yoh into his group here, by acting as if he's let Yoh in on a secret, is very charming obviously, and reminds me somewhat of how in Ep 4, he suddenly drops to "Kanami-san" when talking to Man-san too. This again fits with how his "public mode" has been consistently portrayed thus far - nice, charming, polite, good-looking, and obviously popular (Ep 3, the girls in the cafe at the back, Ep 4, the way he talks to Man-san, this Ep, where he's even been proposed to).

Guy: 俺の水がきたかな？　 Red: あいつ覚えてるかな Guy: 確かに　待たせたな S: ごめん　葉くんお腹痛いんだって　だから連れて帰るわ　はい Girl: 瑞貴まで帰らなくてもいいんじゃん S: しんどいのに　一人すんのかわいそうでしょ* S: じゃあ　またね　また　 S: 行こう Red: 優しいな**　瑞貴 Girl: でも　帰っちゃったよ Guy: Is my water coming? Red: Will that guy remember? Guy: Good point, he's really made us wait S: Sorry! Yoh says he's got a stomachache, so I'm gonna take him home. Here! Girl: Huh? But it's not like Mizuki you have to go too right? S: Leaving him all by himself right when he's having a hard time - wouldn't you feel bad for him?* S: So, see you guys later, 'kay! Bye! S: Let's go Red: Mizuki's really kind** isn't he? Girl: But, he's leaving you know!

*Segasaki does a very small switch up to the polite form here, as he takes the moral high ground by reminding the girl that as Yoh's senior, they have an obligation to take care of him when he's unwell. He's still friendly about it though. **優しい (yasashii) - kind. This word pops up a lot to describe Segasaki, we'll talk about it at the end of this episode.

Y: あの　いいんですか？ S: あそこ戻りたかった？ Y: いえ Y: Um... is this okay? S: You wanted to go back there? Y: No

Y: いつも　友達に囲まれてるこの人がなんでこうして　俺と一緒に歩いてるのかわからなくて不思議だった Y: This person, whose friends were always surrounding him... I just couldn't understand why he'd walk together with me like this It was a mystery to me.

Y: あの顔が　信じられないほど近くにあった耳元に届いた声の響きまで　良いものであることに気づいてしまった Y: That face was... so close to me I could scarcely believe it And it dawned on me then How wonderfully pleasing Even the notes of his voice drifting pass my ears sounded

The scene in the library I've included right at the top, but I'm going to add the conversation that happens during Yoh's monologue, since the subs have them sort of mixed in.

S: 葉 S: 何してんの？ Y: え？えと、あの、本を探せて... S: この本面白いよ Y: え？ Y: ありがとうございます S: また感想教えて Y: はい S: Yoh S: What're you doing? Y: Eh! Um, ah.. I'm looking for a book... (inaudible) S: This book is interesting Y: Eh? Y: Thank you very much S: Tell me your thoughts on it next time Y: Yes

Segasaki's already dropped the polite suffix "-kun" behind Yoh's name here, and doesn't actually bother to let Yoh finish saying thank you before he tells him to report back about the book. Yoh on the other hand, is still using the full, formal and polite version of thank you, and answers him properly. Segasaki's taken the initiative to get closer to Yoh - he's already speaking to him like how he does in the present day (just, not roughly), but Yoh hasn't gotten comfortable enough yet to drop the formalities - or, he simply may not be sure if he can.

Navigating formalities and when to drop them is tricky, and requires some degree of social intuition. Generally speaking, Segasaki dropping a speech level should be a sign that it might be okay for Yoh to drop as well (not to the same level of course, just a little less formal) - but given how Yoh sees them as living in different worlds, and how fearful he is of being hated, it's unlikely that he'd want to touch the status quo.

Y: あの人の気持ち？ Y: That person's feelings?

Yoh's pretty much stuck to the phrase "that person" when referring to Segasaki this whole episode, even during his flashback. He tends to do this when he's feeling some distance between them (like in Ep 2).

On screen messages: Y: What is Kintsuba? S: You don't even know what Kintsuba is? Y: I'm sorry [Yesterday] S: I'll be back late today Y: Understood [Today] (unread) S: Just give the editor some kind of excuse, and come back right now

A: 随分　追い込まれてたねぇ Y: 気持ちを言葉にするとか　あんまりしたことなくて Y: 他人の気持ちなんて　なおさら A: You've pretty much been cornered, huh?* Y: Putting feelings into words and all... I've never really done that myself... Y: Let alone (doing that for) another person's feelings. *This is in reference to Man-san asking Yoh to write out Segasaki's feelings

A: めちゃくちゃにしてやる, めちゃくちゃにして..x10 A: Gonna mess you up, mess you up... x 10

Yes, this does sound like a line straight out of a bad Jp AV 🤣🤣. I mean, we're talking about scenes from Man-san's manga right? That they had to mosaic out? 🤣🤣

Now you know why Segasaki is pissed.

S: 可奈美さんも一緒に仕事してるんですか？ M: すみません！瀬ケ崎さんにご報告もせずに進めてしまって S: いや、可奈美さんのせいじゃないですよ S: Kanami-san, are you also doing your work together with him? M: I apologize! We ended up moving forward without even alerting you about it! S: No, it's not your fault, Kanami-san

You can tell Segasaki has misunderstood here - he thinks Man-san has also been called to work at this Editor's place, and is completely not listening to what she has said, hence her ?? reaction 🤣

S: あ、すみません急用ができてしまったので葉を迎えに来ました S: Ah, I apologize An urgent matter arose, and so I've come to pick Yoh up.

Segasaki's being quite formal here, but this is not the way to be polite. The "proper" way to request leave to go home early on behalf of someone else would be to first, apologize specifically for the disruption, introduce yourself and your relation to that person, apologize that an urgent matter has come up, regrettably but firmly insist that said person must return home immediately on pain of death, apologize again for all the trouble caused, promise to make up for it, humbly ask for understanding, and then apologize your way out the door.

So yes, despite the polite word forms this is quite rude, and is so far removed from Segasaki's usual "public mode" that it cracks me up. Segasaki's composure is unravelling by the second in these next few scenes - he is pissed and absolutely does.not.give.a.shit. 🤣

From right to left: S: So, this bastard is the famed Editor huh... S: Don't you dare try to deceive and pull tricks on Yoh! S: The hell you doing touching him like that so freely!! A: Who (is this)?

The language gets progressively ruder the more the speech bubbles get pointy and the larger the font gets🤣🤣

M: 瀬ケ崎さん　やっぱ強いわ～ M: Segasaki-san really has a strong presence after all~

Y: 黙っててごめんなさい* S: あのさ Y: はい S: ああいうのがいいわけ？ Y: え？ S: 俺より　あの男のどこがいいわけ？ Y: I'm sorry for keeping this from you!* S: Tell me Y: Yes S: Is that what you like? Y: Huh? S: Compared to me, just how is that guy better? *Yoh uses the full but informal version of "sorry" here - gomen nasai. Making a note of this here so I can come back to it in one of the analysis posts.

Y: え、いや Y: 比べるものじゃないと思うけど。。 S: あるんだろうが　俺より　いいところが S: まあ、納得する理由がない限り俺は認めねえけどな Y: 強いて言えば　優しいかな* Y: 人の話を　ちゃんとじっくり聞いてくれるし Y: Um, no... Y: I don't think it's something that can be compared... S: There is something, isn't there? Some way in which he's better than me S: Though, unless you give me something I think is reasonable I won't accept it Y: Well if I had to say something then... maybe, he's kind?* Y: I mean, he listens carefully and attentively to what someone has to say...

*優しい (yasashii) - often translated as "kind", it encompasses the ideas of "caring", "tenderness", "thoughtful/considerate", "warm/gentle". It's often a trait people say they look for in their significant other.

This word has come up often to describe Segasaki - in Ep 2, Segasaki uses it to describe himself, in Ep 3, Yoh uses it to describe Segasaki's voice, and of course here in Ep 6, red shirt uses it to describe Segasaki again. Even when the word isn't said out loud, a lot of Segasaki's actions would fit this word - In Ep 2, when he picks up after Yoh and comforts him during their not-argument. In Ep 3, when he passes Yoh his gift, and implies there's nothing to be sorry for. In Ep 4, the way he coaxes Yoh. In Ep 5, when he takes care of Yoh. In Ep 6, he speaks up for Yoh in the cafeteria when he doesn't have to, when he goes to help Yoh. The irony of this moment is that Segasaki puts in a lot of effort and probably does pride himself in being yasashii, and he listens to Yoh better than Yoh listens to himself, and yet he hears from Yoh that he isn't yasashii or attentive, which explains the pained expression on his face.

S: あ、そう S: 俺先行くわ* S: Oh, is that so? S: I'm going ahead then* *わ (wa) - this ending particle puts emphasizes one's statement, but is not one that Segasaki usually uses. It's less forceful that his usual speech, because he's quite hurt by Yoh's statements.

Y: かばんに入ってたやつ　戻しといてから Y: The thing that was inside my bag, I put it back so... The way Yoh ends this sentence leaves room for a follow up - it's an invitation to continue the conversation, which we actually have not seen him do with Segasaki, and that's why he looks so dejected when Segasaki rejects that invitation by walking away.

Though it's been hinted at throughout the show, Ep 6 is where we get confirmation that Yoh's just never quite fit in with the crowd, and that Segasaki has always been in the center of it. The stark difference explains why Yoh is so afraid that one day he will do something to make Segasaki hate him, and why he reflexively rejects the idea that Segasaki could possibly love him.

This episode is painful, for both of them. For Yoh, because from the intensity of his monologues, we finally get a sense of how big a presence Segasaki is to him, and therefore, how devastating it would be to lose him. For Segasaki, because for all that he can read Yoh, for all that he has done to try and reassure Yoh of his love, he still cannot make Yoh see, cannot make Yoh hear.

"If he ended up hating me then I felt like I might die."

It is precisely Yoh's love for Segasaki that makes Yoh fear the possibility of losing him, and it is that fear that blinds, deafens and mutes Yoh to the very thing he hopes for. And it is in trying to protect himself, that he inadvertently hurts the very person he loves so much.

#my personal weatherman #taikan yohou #体感予報 #MPW subtitle corrections #mytranslations #segasaki x yoh #Ep 6 has given us a lot of context about these two #and reinforces again that it doesn't matter what Segasaki might say or do #Until Yoh sees the good in himself #he's not going to overcome that fear #Segasaki literally gives up his best ability here #he let's his composure slowly unravel throughout this whole ep #he loses the very thing that triggers Yoh's feelings of inadequacy #and yet Yoh doesn't even notice #ahh this is what happens when you love a “my pace” person

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marshmallowprotection · 5 months

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Hello! For those who don't speak Korean, I have what I consider a very cool character fact to share about Ray that you wouldn't even come close to getting with the English version!

So, Korean has different formalities to be used when speaking to others.

When Ray first meets and speaks with the player (even the VERY first time through text messages), he speaks with the ***lowest*** informality! He talks and types with familiarity, which is considered highly inappropriate/rude with a stranger! You can interpret this in two ways: Ray already feels familiarity with you and it's his way of trying to manipulate a connection between the two of you, and/or-......consider the fact that you are also a "outsider" to this cult. You don't belong, you're not one of them. Considering Ray uses this type of language when he VERY FIRST meets you, it's highly possible it's ALSO due to the fact that he doesn't necessarily *respect* you. Those brainwashed inside cults are strictly taught to avoid connection with outsiders. There are multiple instances in Ray route where he hints at and also directly tells you that you're not one of them.

Tldr; Ray, from the very first moment of talking to the player, treats them as someone very close to him/very **beneath** him, depending on how you'd like to interpret his intentions. Maybe a little of both hehe

Anyways!! Fun piece of information I thought I would share with non-native Korean speakers! I think it's a very interesting part of Ray's character that absolutely no western fandom has covered...maybe because it might seem insignificant? But I really like this fact about him! As a fellow Ray enjoyed I thought you may like this! Thanks for listening :)

See, that's one of those things that gets lost in translation. English doesn’t have the same niche for honorifics as Korean does, so I do think that’s one of the things that gets lost whenever translators do their best to adapt the game from one language to another. I would read into this as him being informal with you because he already sees you with somebody who will be close to him no matter what.

Why go through the process of changing his language when his end goal is to be the most important person in your life? Break down the walls of formality and show you that you already matter to him. That makes sense for his desire and infatuation in my eyes, but... there's a point you make with him speaking above you.

There are hints of this sprinkled all over the place, and it's not that he thinks he's better than you, it's that he thinks he's smarter than you. Because of the manipulation he's undergoing, he believes that he might be the only person in the world who may be able to protect you from everything horrible and rotten. He has suffered so much and he is determined to make sure you don't suffer.

Which means that if he has to do something to correct you, he will, and there are two Bad Endings where that is the case. The Common Ending on Day 4 has him tell you that you can restart the game over and over until you’re fixed… and there’s a Bad Relationship Ending in V Route where Rika gifts you to Ray and he locks you away in your room until he and Saeran decide what they want to do with you.

#mod kait #ask #mystic messenger #anon #mysme #saeran choi #mysticmessenger #mm #choi saeran #ray choi #choi ray #character analysis

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ririya-translates · 1 month

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JJ Lyrics Part 1: Jack & Jeanne of Quartz

I've been asked by a few people about an English version of the opening theme since Ion doesn't give lyrics for it in-game. I do not trust myself to have the lyrical ability to translate it well rhythmically, but I've been thinking that perhaps if I put out a gist of the meaning then perhaps someone more musically inclined can work off of that to turn it into something usable. At the very least, I hope it's helpful to give a bit more context. I'll include the original lyrics as well for those who want to compare side by side. For all of these (assuming I get to more) I'll be using the full song version lyrics from the vocal collection. Translation notes are in brackets. Sorry the spacing is weird because Tumblr's formatting is honestly kinda garbage and won't let me change much.

Can listen along to the full version song on Youtube here. I also got the full character colour-coded lyrics here. Note: The lyrics in this game are quite dense with nuances and references so if there's any I seem to have missed, please do let me know! Please consider these simply rough drafts to get the gist of the full lyrics as I just did this in one sitting. Normally I check over things a few times before posting, but I kinda did this on a whim. Things like pronouns and prepositions are very much context-dependent here so a fair bit can be changed depending on interpretation. If there are clear mistakes, please let me know and I'll edit it.

Kai: こころにひそむ無色の願い

Suzu: かたちに出来ずうつむく

Colourless wishes hidden deep within one’s heart/

Unable to take form, looking downwards

(The word for colourless is often used in reference to Quartz particularly since they are the inexperienced class who have yet to develop their unique “colours” yet)

Kisa/Mitsuki: いつか見ていた夢のつづき

Neji: どこまで行けるか？

Kisa/Sou: たしかめようその器を

Fumi: からだ賭けて

Keeping alive that dream you once saw/

How far can you go for it?/

Let’s give it a shot with this vessel/

Risking our bodies on it

(Since it’s a group number I’m just assuming bodies here to be plural)

LIs: この胸で躍る

Kisa: 眼差しがとらえる

LIs: 可能性のリズム

Kisa: クォーツのペンデュラム

LIs: 踊れよジャック

Kisa: 映すポテンシャル

All: まだ行ける？

This dancing in our chests/

Capturing a glimpse/

The rhythm of possibility/

Pendulum of Quartz/

Dance, Jacks!/

Reflective potential/

Can you keep going?

(In these alternating LI/Kisa sections, assume that they are singing both sets of lines simultaneously, but whoever is listed first in the section is the more prominent one)

Kisa: さあ乙女たちも

LIs: 僕らを導く

Kisa: いま立ち上がる

LIs: クリスタルのパス

Kisa: 歌えよジャンヌ

LIs: 歩む未踏の地

All: まだ行ける？

And to all you girls too/

Guide us (masc)/

Stand up right now/

Path of crystal/

Sing, Jeannes!/ Walk the untread land/

Can you keep going?

(Not entirely sure about the meaning of パス here since it can be read as ‘path’ or ‘pass’ and it isn’t fully clear)

Fumi/Kai: からだに巣食ううつろな渇き

Kai/Neji: 満たせるものは

Neji: 自分だけ

This gnawing emptiness lodged in your body/

Can be filled by/

Only you yourself

Kisa/Sou: きみと見ていた淡い夢は

Neji: あえかに咲く花

Kisa/Suzu: うつくしいもの守れるなら

Fumi/Mitsuki: こころ捧ぐ

This faded dream I saw with you/

Fleeting flowers in bloom/

If it can protect these things of beauty/

We’ll devote our hearts to it

(The kanji for ‘fade’ here matches the kanji used in the song Faded Color, but the kanji for flower is different from the stage flower/vessel usage)

LIs: この願いだけが

Kisa: チャコールナイトグレー

LIs: くらやみ照らす

Kisa: クォーツのライトで

LIs: しるべのランプ

Kisa: 未来さえ照らして

All: まだ行ける

With this wish alone/

Charcoal grey/

Illuminating the darkness/

Through the light of Quartz/

The guidepost lamp/

Light us even into the future/

We can keep going

(Guidepost しるべ is similar although not exactly the same as 道しるべ used in the title of the moon novel)

Kisa: ただ終われない

LIs: はるかなビジョンは

Kisa: そう、想うだけじゃ

LIs: ロマンの見取り図

Kisa: 一度きりの幕

LIs: 二度は描けない

All: まだ行ける

It cannot simply end/

A far away vision/

Yes, this can’t be just an idea/

Outline for a tale/

Just once behind that curtain/

Never to be written twice/

We can keep going

Kisa: ときに迷おうとも

さきが見えずとも

Sou: 残した足跡　

Kisa/Neji/Sou: 信じて

Suzu: 遠回りしても

Kisa: ただ

Suzu: 足がもつれても

Kisa: 歩き続ける

Kisa/Mistuki: ことを

Even if you’re sometimes lost/

When you can’t see the way ahead/

The footprints left behind/

Trust in them/

Even if you go in circles/

Can only/

Even if you trip over your feet/

Keep walking forward/

This is the thing

(ことを at the end of the sentence is rather hard to translate into English since it’s so context-dependent so by all means feel free to find a better iteration of that last line)

Kai: ただただ重ねて　

Kisa: 人はみな育つ

Neji: まだまだ行けるさ

Mistuki: けして手放すな

Kisa: 今にも

Fumi: 原石が

Kisa: 光り

Suzu/Sou: かがやく

Just keeps building, building up/

All people grow up/

We keep going, going/

Never letting go/

On the verge of/

This rough gem’s/

Light/

Shining

(Tried to keep some of the word duplication but it can definitely be done better. The word for rough/unpolished gem/ore is akin to ‘diamond in the rough’ in English and is again used a lot in reference to Quartz being inexperienced but with great potential value)

(This part repeats the first LI/Kisa sections)

LIs: この胸で躍る

Kisa: 眼差しがとらえる

LIs: 可能性のリズム

Kisa: クォーツのペンデュラム

LIs: 踊れよジャック

Kisa: 映すポテンシャル

All: まだ行ける？

This dancing in our chests/

Capturing a glimpse/

The rhythm of possibility/

Pendulum of Quartz/

Dance, Jacks!/

Reflective potential/

Can you keep going?

Kisa: さあ乙女たちも

LIs: 僕らを導く

Kisa: いま立ち上がる

LIs: クリスタルのパス

Kisa: 歌えよジャンヌ

LIs: 歩む未踏の地

All: さあ行こう！ Oh

And to all you girls too/

Guide us (masc)/

Stand up right now/

Path of crystal/

Sing, Jeannes!/ Walk the untread land/

Well, let’s go! Oh!

—

Overall thoughts: I’m sure people can draw their own interpretations from this but you can see it’s a song about dreams and the hard-fought battles in pursuing said dreams with lots of Quartz-related phrasing. Quite interesting as well how Kisa is sometimes mixed in with various LI characters and sometimes singing in contrast to them.

I would recommend for those who haven’t read it to also check out the first chapter of the moon novel (translation here) as it emphasizes Kisa grappling between her dreams and her reality.

Also I would like to plug this cover version by Saki Hazuki singing this song with both male and female parts which feels very Jack Jeanne.

#jack jeanne #jackjeanne #otome #translation #lyrics #jjlyrics #this song is a lot longer than i realized oop #i was supposed to be packing #but i found it fascinating

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koalatysleep · 3 months

Text

Large ripples from small stones, or Why my Yusuke is different from yours - the HUGE difference that translations & cultural context make to YYH canon!

I recently became aware of how much different dubs/translations of YYH changed the original Japanese dialogue/meaning when I stumbled across a great post by another fan who watched the anime in both the original Japanese dialogue and the American English dub, and that post highlighted some of the dialogue/meaning that the American English dub changed so that the characters / dialogue fit the American cultural expectations / way of speaking better, and that actually changes interpersonal dynamics between characters as well as the characters themselves, thus changing how we interpret them! I can't find that tumblr post now, so if anyone knows the tumblr post I'm referring to, please comment with the link! (It used Hiei and Kuwabara's interactions as its example).

That post lit a lightbulb in my head - because it explains just how different "canon" can be depending on which language & culture you consumed canon in, and why some headcanons / interpretations can seem quite OOC to some while appearing perfectly in-character to others! It's because we're basing our headcanons & interpretations on different canons & cultural contexts! (or we could be playing in sandboxes that are totally removed from canon, which is a perfectly legitimate way to enjoy art too!)

As an example of how different "canon" can be depending on the translation/cultural context, in this scene in Anime Episode 5 when Koenma asks what Yusuke plans to do if Keiko doesn't make it in time to resuscitate his body:

-----

The Japanese original dialogue is: "I can't make Keiko wait 50 years. If that happens, I'll give up with dignity."

(I google-translated the Japanese CC script below, if anyone reads Japanese, let me know if the Google translation is accurate!)

Coupled with the official Chinese Manga translations of the equivalent scene which has very similar dialogue to the Japanese CC dialogue from the anime, Yusuke is referring to how he'd give up on trying to come back to life, and just die cleanly now.

At this point in time we have to dive a little into the subtext of previous episodes in order to understand the meaning of this Japanese dialogue, because Japanese culture/verbal communication is VERY VERY SUBTLE, with A LOT of meaning left unsaid between words. Yup, Japanese verbal communication is itself very subtextual, same as YYH canon! So let's peel back the layers!

We saw in Anime Episode 1 itself how Yusuke had such a low self-esteem due to his distorted view of himself as a "good-for-nothing-fuck-up" which he internalized from the external world's treatment and view of him, that he genuinely believed his life was worthless, that he wouldn't amount to anything good even if he came back to life, and that it'd be better for everyone around him if he stayed dead! 😭

Which is why he was ready to stay dead even when Botan gave him the choice to come back to life!

At this scene in Anime Episode 5, while Yusuke is no longer as ready to give up on his own life as he was in Episode 1 (because he saw how much he meant to his mom, Kuwabara, Keiko, Takenaka, and the kid he saved during his wake), when he saw how his mom was still more preoccupied with getting drunk than care about him in this episode, and how Kuwabara wasn't receptive to kissing Yusuke*, Yusuke again felt like he doesn't mean much to the people around him, which is why Yusuke thinks if he still wants to return to life, he can only rely on Keiko to wait around another 50 years to resuscitate him, which obviously wouldn't work, thus Yusuke feels he can only give up on coming back to life and die cleanly now.

While this is indeed a very Yusuke thing to do - he doesn't do anything by halves! - this is still driven by Yusuke's emotional wound of feeling unwanted, unloved and worthless to the people he cares about! 😭 It's very true to life, because emotional wounds like Yusuke's doesn't just get resolved when you see people crying at your wake one time! Yusuke is likely thinking - they may be sad he's dead coz well he's dead, but they don't really care enough to want him to come back to life! 😭

*(I also think Yusuke saw Kuwabara screaming awake in terror after the romantic kiss that Yusuke projected into Kuwabara's dream.. The fact that Yusuke went to the arcade to tell Kuwa a second time to kiss him tells me that Yusuke saw Kuwa scream, and even before this arcade scene Yusuke already said he can't rely on Kuwa or his mom to resuscitate him so he already knew Kuwa wouldn't show based on his scream 😭😭 that must have hurt Yusuke too, because Yusuke obviously had subconscious romantic hopes with Kuwa as evident from the Freudian-slip of a romantic kiss he projected into Kuwa's mind, where Yusuke literally pictured himself as Sleeping Beauty and Kuwa as the Prince Charming who kissed him back to life! 🤣 But instead of reciprocating, Kuwa screamed in terror, denied the dream, and refused to acknowledge it even after spirit Yusuke tried to tell him a second time at the arcade 😭 This must have been romantically disappointing to say the least or felt like rejection at the worst, even if Yusuke's romantic hopes at this point in time with Kuwa were just nebulous subconscious desires! Thus this again makes Yusuke feel unwanted!)

But I digress! The point is - based on the Japanese original dialogue, we get the above interpretation of what's going on with Yusuke as a character - his emotional wound of feeling unwanted/unloved/worthless is not yet resolved, it's triggered when 2 out of the 3 people closest to him doesn't do anything to bring him back to life, and Yusuke feels that if Keiko is the only one who wants him to come back to life enough to do something about it, he's still ready to give up on his own life and just die cleanly now, rather than drag it out another 50 years.

In other words, this is not a romantic scene that confirms Yusuke's in love with Keiko, if anything it's a scene that confirms Yusuke is NOT in love with Keiko, because if she's the only one who wants him to come back to life, he would still give up on living! This scene is about who Yusuke is as a person, and what makes life worth living to him!

This scene in its original dialogue tells us VERY IMPORTANT things about Yusuke's character -- he only feels life is worth living if he has people he cares about in his life + he's loved by the people he cares about! Which is why in the episode when Keiko rushes into the house fire to save his body, he told Sayaka that it would be pointless for him to return to life if she dies, because for someone who's as made out of Love as Yusuke, there really is no point in him returning to life if it costs the life of one of the few people he cares about! I've been shouting to anyone who'd listen that Yusuke is actually entirely made out of Love, and this is more proof points of that!

Yusuke's emotional wound of feeling unwanted / unloved / worthless / and thus alone is also FUNDAMENTAL to his character arc in the rest of canon, especially during the Dark Tournament!!!! Without this scene and its meaning intact, it would totally change our interpretation of the rest of canon, especially the Dark Tournament which is ALL ABOUT Yusuke overcoming this emotional wound!!!

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If you watch the anime in the original Japanese audio track but with English subtitles, the dialogue and meaning becomes different in seemingly subtle but significant ways:

"I can't very well make Keiko wait 50 years. If that happens, I'll give her up like a man."

This seemingly small change makes a world of difference, because this phrasing "I'll give her up like a man" implies Yusuke is in love with Keiko, which the original Japanese dialogue doesn't!

If I were watching canon purely in this English subtitles, I would think Yusuke is revealing that he's in love with Keiko, which totally changes what this scene is about, as well as what the rest of canon means!

Based on this dialogue/meaning, I would think that Yusuke really is in love with Keiko, and my interpretation of Yusuke in the rest of canon would go from the Japanese original "Gay and in love with Kuwa, but whose found family sibling Keiko complicates matters coz she's in love with him", to this version's "Bi and falls in love with Kuwa, but was previously sorta in love with Keiko"!

When I first watched the anime in this English subtitles, I was hella confused by the rest of canon after the revival arc was done 🤣, because I was blinded by my heteronormative expectations into thinking Yusuke really is in love with Keiko, and that wasn't helped by translations like this which changed the meaning of the original scene, which made this scene incongruent / inconsistent with the rest of canon which shows us Yusuke is in love with Kuwa!

I was like "hmmm?? Why the inconsistencies between what he says and what he actually feels? Why does he seem to be crystal clear he's not in love with Keiko, but he says something else? Even though he obviously knows he's in love with Kuwa?" And thus my interpretation of this version of canon can change to "bi- or gay-struggle to accept his own sexual orientation", which is very different from the Japanese original canon where Yusuke has always been crystal clear about his romantic feelings and didn't actually have issues accepting that internally, he just wasn't sure whether it was reciprocated by Kuwa or not!!

And thus the headcanons and fanworks we create would be completely different depending on which canon we got!

Of course, Japanese canon also had to keep the dialogue ambiguous enough that heteronormative audiences can read Yusuke as in love with Keiko easily, coz canon had to hide the Kuwameshi love story under the misdirection of Keiko as the romantic love interest, which is why even the original Japanese dialogue is deliberately vague so it can play into mainstream audience's heteronormative assumptions, but still, it doesn't imply Yusuke is in love with Keiko like this "give her up like a man" phrasing does, because the scene in its original Japanese meaning is about Yusuke's emotional wound, not his romantic love interest.

This English subtitles also doesn't tell us anything about Yusuke's fundamental emotional wound, which is what's driving his character arc in the rest of canon, especially the Dark Tournament!!

Like, it took me SO LONG before I figured out what the Dark Tournament was actually about in terms of Yusuke's character arc okay! 🤣🤣 I had to re-watch the entire anime before I got it! 🤣🤣

We begin to see what a world of difference subtle changes in translations & cultural context makes! Large ripples from small stones!

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Now if you watch the anime in the American English dub, the dialogue/meaning becomes even more different:

"The only thing I can do. Wait around another fifty years. Then I'll go see Keiko when she's an old hag."

Okay first of all, I love how the American English Dub doesn't change the scene to a romantic one that implies Yusuke is in love with Keiko! I also love the way Yusuke refers to Keiko as "an old hag" 🤣🤣, which is thoroughly sibling-coded rather than romantically-coded 🤣🤣🤣. Which can explain why a lot of my fellow fans who watched canon in this dub read Keiko as Yusuke's sibling way earlier than I did! Thank goodness I eventually caught on though! Giggle!!!

While I love that the American English dub doesn't change the meaning of this scene to a romantic one, it nonetheless changes Yusuke's character in significant ways -- in this version, Yusuke doesn't have the emotional wound of feeling unwanted/unloved/worthless anymore, he's suddenly so over this fundamental emotional wound that he will hold onto his life even if he has to wait 50 years as a spirit in a pretty meaningless existence, even though it seemed to him like nobody apart from Keiko cares enough about him returning to life! 😅

And thus based on this version of canon, my read of Yusuke would again completely change from the Japanese original of "Appears confident and uncomplicated on the surface, but actually has a deep inner self that's very different from his external facade and has a tender aching heart that he hides from the world", to this version of Yusuke who seems to be "Really as uncomplicated as he appears on the surface, no hidden emotional wounds or tender achy feelings inside" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

And thus we see how the headcanons and fanworks we create would again be completely different, depending on which version of canon we're basing it on!!

Like I said, large ripples from small stones!

And while I'm more than happy if Yusuke really has overcome this fundamental emotional wound in just a few short episodes that didn't actually give him enough learning opportunities to overcome this wound, it makes this scene incongruent with the rest of canon (especially the Dark Tournament), which is ALL ABOUT Yusuke overcoming this emotional wound!!!

Having said that, perhaps the rest of the American English dub in other scenes/episodes down the line establish Yusuke's emotional wound in other ways, which would bring his character arc back in sync with what the Dark Tournament's all about!

ANYWAY, the point of this post isn't to compare "canons" to see which one is "better". The point is - we've already seen for ourselves how even "canon" itself can be totally different (or even internally inconsistent with itself) depending on which translation/cultural context we consume it in, so if you come across another fan's headcanon/interpretation which seems OOC to you, it might just be that their canon was in a different language/cultural context from yours, OR their canon contains subtext that your canon doesn't, OR they noticed subtext you didn't, OR their canon's translations contained inconsistencies, OR it might be that they're playing in a different sandbox that's quite far removed from canon itself, which is still a perfectly legitimate way to enjoy art too!

We're lucky that the YYH fandom is by and large a very nice tolerant fandom which gives people space to interpret canon however they want even if there's supposedly "no canon evidence" for it, because this is art, art is supposed to give us the space to imagine and create, it doesn't have to be so serious, and we can all play in our respective sandboxes even if it really is totally removed from canon!

So I guess what I'm saying is - if you get your kicks by basing your enjoyment on canon like I do, there're plenty of "canons" to geek out over ❤️❤️, and if you get your kicks by playing around with the characters in ways that are totally removed from canon, that's perfectly fine as well! We can all still get along, because that's what ART IS ALL ABOUT, it gives us space to enjoy it in whatever ways float our boats! :D

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As for why this post is tagged Kuwameshi, well that's coz I personally get my kicks from deciphering canon's subtext, and I'm so obsessive about it I'm even considering learning Japanese language so I can read/watch canon in its purest form without the risk of anything getting lost in translation🤣🤣, coz deciphering canon to me is an exciting fun adventure where I get to unearth buried treasures that have been hidden in plain sight more than 30 years ago by Togashi and Anime Studio Pierrot, and every time I discover something new I jump and scream like a mad person with SHEER UNADULTERATED EXCITEMENT AND JOY, and since the Kuwameshi Love Story is at the HEART OF EVERYTHING IN YYH, I literally cannot talk about YYH without screaming about Kuwameshi!!!

As I've mentioned before in metas / replies to comments of various fellow fans, on my first watch of the anime, I was still shipping Yusuke with Keiko coz I was blinded by heteronormative expectations (& also confused by translations which were not consistent with what canon shows), but I was SO DISSATISFIED shipping Yusuke with Keiko coz I could sense all the ways in which Yusuke is actually not romantically interested in Keiko, just that I couldn't explicitly put my finger on it at that point in time, so much so that I watched the whole anime again looking for clues and found Kuwameshi instead! GIGGLE!

I kid you not, canon's subtext is guaranteed to blow your mind, to paraphrase a Dua Lipa song ;P

Come scream about them with me on my Kuwameshi Meta series on AO3 if you wanna see what I mean!!! 🥹🥹🌈🌈🐦🐦👌👌

SPECIAL SHOUT OUT TO @sadique-angel coz the buried treasure analogy is a chef's kiss analogy from you!!!! I HAVE SO MUCH FUN gushing about canon and discovering hidden treasures with you that honestly I might just tag you in all my meta about YYH in future!!!! 🤣🤣🙌🙌📸🤿🤠🤩😍

#kuwameshi #yyh #yusuke urameshi #yu yu hakusho #yusuke #urameshi yusuke #kazuma kuwabara #kuwabara #kuwabara kazuma #kuwameshi meta #yyh meta #yu yu hakusho meta

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hatredmadeofgold · 1 year

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Revenge with a vengeance — The tragedy of Sam and Raiden’s canon relationship dynamic

Alternate title: SamuRaiden is THAT deep, actually.

Side note by author: This essay will get an update eventually since I wrote it before playing the Japanese version of the game.

Although MGR does not have as complex or well researched character lore as the main series, Samuraiden as a relationship is a lot more complex than common fandom tropes and interpretations of their relationship suggest. I don’t mind it when people make funny/meme content about these two, since MGS/R does come with its own flair of humour, it’s very exhausting for me as well as a few others I know who enjoy this ship for it to be reduced to just that — a joke. MGR being perceived as ‘goofy’ is mainly due to how poorly some of the character lines translate from Japanese to English, as well as it being more or less evident that either budget, time or both ran out over the course of development, hence the second half of the game feels rushed and underdeveloped. In fact, the great majority of MGR fans do not understand how serious, dark, hopeless and dystopian its message really is and that is saddening.

The world isn’t black and white, neither is it in MGS/R. Sam isn’t the just the villain (never has been, by the way), Raiden isn’t the just the hero (never has been either, by the way), I’d say it’s rather “depends on who you ask”. They are on opposite sides due to the circumstances of how they meet and not because they wouldn’t get along. Quite the opposite is true, in fact, if they would have met before 2016, they might have become friends based on the fact of how much they can actually relate to each other in many different aspects of their personalities, interests and experiences.

Before we get to fight Armstrong as well as during the Sam DLC (also through very subtle hints during their first fight on the train) we learn that Sam is just like Raiden and that Desperado forced him to become a shadow of who he once was, going against his own morals and values and only Raiden reminding him of who he truly was before Armstrong defeated him 2 years prior, ultimately crushing his spirit — he had no other choice, either die there as a failure or continue to live and become Desperado’s/Armstrong’s puppet [until someone would eventually defeat Armstrong and free Sam from his never ending nightmare — Did I already mention that Sam is a really fucking tragic character?]. Sam joining Armstrong’s laughter at the end of DLC is a reaction of fear, not agreement with him or enjoyment. And if there’s one thing that both MGS and MGR are really good at, it’s the accurate and very realistic portrayal of the human psyche under stressful and traumatic situations.

On the other side we can tell from Raiden’s reaction when holding Murasama after killing Sam that he, for once in the entire damn series, questions if that was the right choice he made. We know that Raiden enjoys inflicting pain and suffering onto others, he enjoys murder — but he did not feel that way when he killed Sam. It’s quite the opposite. It’s very subtle and if you’re not very observant like me, easy to miss. But the way his voice turns a bit softer, how his eyes look listless, almost sad; he regrets it. When Blade Wolf asks Raiden if that outcome was really necessary, he does not answer him, because he knows that Wolf is right, it wasn’t. And Raiden pretty much hates himself for it. To his team he confidently says that Sam isn’t a problem anymore since he killed him, but that’s not the same Raiden that he’s that moment in the badlands (which is another implication to me that Raiden doesn’t fully trust his teammates, although they are friends; he has major trust issues and the only emotions he shares with them is either anger or amusement but nothing outside of that). The way he sheathes Murasama is a way to honour him, and as far as I remember this is a ritual to honour a samurai’s defeat or death.

I believe that there has been a silent understanding between the two swordsmen that they respect each other from the very beginning, but they do not say it out loud. This is a case of “show, don’t tell” but also something I suspect has something to do with the game being written by Japanese authors, and Japanese is a high context language, meaning, very little words are needed to get the meaning across, and I think this may also translate into the words these two exchange with each other compared to how they truly feel about the other. Besides, they probably couldn’t truly speak honestly with each other in the first place because of the unfortunate conditions of how they met and were (more or less) forced to fight each other until one of them would eventually succumb to the other’s blade. Codecs and conversations were most likely recorded by their respective employers, and I highly suspect that in Sam’s case, he was even monitored 24/7 by Desperado since he never was an official member of the Winds of Destruction in the first place, and they didn’t fully trust him either.

At the very end of the game during the fight with Armstrong, Sam’s message plays, and we can hear how Sam also speaks with a different voice to Blade Wolf compared to everyone else (and technically, indirectly to Raiden but I cannot confirm or deny that Sam was aware that Raiden would ever hear this playback), it’s a note softer; Raiden learns the truth, which confirms to him that he was right about Sam after all, that they are alike, that they respect each other, and that there was more to Sam’s story than him being a part of Desperado, he doesn’t know what exactly, but he knows now for sure that Sam was not the person he originally believed he was (and lets his team still believe he thinks that way).

Would Raiden truly say Sam’s catchphrase “Let’s dance” before fighting and ultimately killing Armstrong, if he wouldn’t have been going through a gradual process between originally hating Sam to respecting and liking him but unable to ever express that to him or anyone else?

Would he ever admit to anyone what kind of emotional impact Sam had on him, besides the anger and hatred he openly expressed towards him?

Doubt so. Highly fucking doubt so.

Because sharing his true feelings is a liability to him, and Raiden learnt as a very young child that vulnerable feelings such as sadness or guilt would be used against him, so his psyche is conditioned to discard them immediately. But Sam made him feel those things in their full extent and Raiden is fully aware of that, but he would never share with anybody that he ever felt that way about Sam.

He may or may not take those feelings to his grave.

From Sam’s side, we can only guess how he truly felt about Raiden, but we can only guess by the way he hesitated to finish him off on the train during the prologue, the way he smiled at Blade Wolf before his death (which might be likely another case of a silent understanding between Sam and Wolf that the latter would share with Raiden what he knows about Sam or the playback of their conversation itself, if not both) as well as everything he says with giving Murasama to Raiden. Of course, Sam couldn’t even say out loud to Blade Wolf or Raiden that he planned to give Raiden his sword to take down Armstrong, and he had to be as vague as possible with the information that he shared with the robot dog. Not by choice, no. Most likely because he was being watched 24/7, he knew that Desperado nor Armstrong didn’t fully trust him and if they knew about his plans, they’d make sure to finish him off before Raiden had the chance to do so. Sam knew he would die, and that it would be the only way he would ever be free from Armstrong’s grasp. So he chose suicide through Raiden’s blade, and gave him his sword to finish what he could not back then.

The game’s title is REVENGEANCE — Revenge with a vengeance.

They both translate to the same thing in my native language German, but there’s a subtle yet important difference between these two nouns.

“Revenge means when you get back at your enemy who is responsible for hurting you and vengeance is the punishment inflicted or retribution exacted for an injury or wrong.”

But it was never Armstrong who hurt or wronged Raiden in the first place, and we know he’s an essentially selfish person who does not really care all that much about politics, religion or anything like that and he only fights for himself (I wrote in my essay about Raiden’s ASPD that his motivation to save these children from becoming cyborg child soldiers is a trauma response first and his rather lose and grey morality second) and the few people he cares about, so Armstrong being the one one who ordered to get N’mani killed is not the reason Raiden went after him or was that passionate about getting revenge or retribution on him either.

It was Sam who hurt him — wounded both his body and soul during the prologue — but when Raiden got his revenge, he realised that revenge is empty, that he didn’t feel better, and that he regrets killing him, then we get to the vengeance part. From the moment Raiden held Sam’s Murasama in the badlands, he felt no more hatred towards him and the emotional impact his death had on him made Sam transition from a person he hated to one of the few people Raiden truly cares about.

Armstrong may be the villain of the story, but the person who wanted revenge on him never had been Raiden. It was Sam. Always had been Sam, because it was Sam who got hurt by Armstrong, it was Sam who wanted to get revenge on Armstrong for defeating him and crushing his spirit, it was Sam who wanted to punish Armstrong for making him into a shadow of who he once was, making Sam speak about ideals he didn’t truly believe in (like, who the FUCK even thinks that Sam truly believed a single fucking word of that, because I for sure as hell can tell he never did, he either gaslit himself into believing that for 2 years until he met Raiden or only parroted whatever the fuck Armstrong wanted him to say so he would not get killed on the spot).

Revenge and vengeance are very deep feelings and actions of hatred, feelings that are too deep and complex to be associated with morality, hence why I highly doubt that the title of the game is directed at Armstrong from Raiden’s side at all. That between Raiden and Armstrong is not nearly as personal as it has been between Sam and Armstrong. Raiden eradicating Desperado and Armstrong had been about justice [for the kids being killed and their organs sold], not revenge.

"I said my sword was a tool of justice. Not used in anger. Not used for vengeance. But now… Now I'm not so sure. And besides, this isn't my sword."

But when he says this, followed by “Let’s dance”, it became deeply personal for Raiden as well. Because he could confirm that his feelings about Sam had been right, and that Sam wanted to get revenge on Armstrong.

Raiden decides to avenge him, because Sam couldn’t get revenge himself.

Although Sam never told him directly, Raiden understood him from his actions alone, those subtle hints, reading between the lines what the other truly felt and wanted the whole time, eventually passing the “torch” — his sword — to Raiden, to finish what he could not. So while Raiden’s own reasons to finish off Armstrong were (mostly) justice for the innocent lives he destroyed and planned to continue to destroy, they also became feelings of hatred and anger — Sam’s feelings towards Armstrong.

In the end — revenge with a vengeance — is what Sam could get on Armstrong only through Raiden, after Raiden enacted his onto Sam.

Now the question is — if Raiden would’ve never killed Sam, by the chance of him recognising earlier than in canon that revenge is empty and that he won’t feel better after killing him, would Sam go by his example and abandon his revenge plans on Armstrong as well? Or would they fight Armstrong together and get justice?

We unfortunately can only speculate (or write stories about it).

What we can tell from canon though, is that Raiden’s (= Sam’s) passionate feelings of hatred towards Armstrong quickly vanish the moment he finished him off, and he looks into the camera with an empty expression, covered in blood and a crushed cybernetic heart in his hand.

And I think that is exactly what he feels — empty.

Because again, he got revenge and avenged Sam, led by what Sam felt, Sam’s feelings became Raiden’s feelings during that fight with Armstrong. But once that was gone, there’s nothing left. In the case of killing Armstrong, he doesn’t feel remorse or guilt. There’s nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Because revenge is empty.

Raiden defeated his enemies — but at what cost?

By killing Sam, he realised what he had actually lost — a potential friend (or more), someone who understood him in a way that no one else did. Perhaps he thought or felt that, if he avenges Sam, making Sam’s feelings towards Armstrong into his own, he might be able to deal with that loss better, but to no avail.

Because, and I can speak from experience as a person with the same mental health issues as Raiden, that emptiness is worse than regret.

MGR’s ending also implies that Raiden abandons his family and friends to fight his own war; essentially taking the same path that Sam once took in his past, ending up in a personal war and revenge act that knows no end, making one bad choice after the next. If Raiden hasn’t already become the villain of his own story by the end of MGR, then it’s just a matter of time until he becomes that.

And the cycle of violence continues, until the story repeats itself, over and over and over and over and over.

Did I mention already that there is a myth around Murasama being a cursed sword, that will drive its user either slowly insane or make them commit suicide if it doesn’t get a regular ‘blood sacrifice’?

—

“I really enjoy murder, but that one, that I will regret for the rest of my life.”

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multifandom-onigiri · 1 year

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Ok I’m going to rip off the bandage and talk about the age gap discourse surrounding DarkMilk

I’m going to preface this with a few disclaimers

1. The post is mainly going to center around Dark Choco as a character because there is (unsurprisingly) more to be said about Dark Choco Cookie from what I’ve gathered. (Edit: There was a lot more to be said.)

2. This post isn’t here to force you to change your interpretation or have your take away from this post as “I have to see Dark Choco as this age” or “DarkMilk’s age gap is [insert said range]”. Rather, it’s me presenting an interpretation with an analysis of the game. But nothing about their ages is explicitly confirmed or denied so I could be wrong. You could be wrong too. None of us are the writers.

3. Around half of this post relies on analyzing the Korean names of Dark Choco and Milk. As seen in my pinned post, I’m not Korean so I ran this post through with a mutual who is. That being said, that doesn’t mean this post is immediately 100% right so please correct this post if needed. (To the mutual in question, thank you so much for the help I really mean it.)

A while ago, I found a tweet and then a conversation under it between two users about young prince dark choco’s age based on his name is written in Korean: 어린 왕자.

It’s stated as such on the wiki for Cookie Run Ovenbreak (italicized because we’ll get to this in a bit) but here’s a screenshot in game

There’s two things to note with 어린 왕자

1) 어리다 means young but significantly so (as in the age of the person numerically is small, and thus they can be easily recognized as a child).

2) 어린 왕자 is apparently also the official Korean title for the book The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (Named as such for the young boy dubbed as the little prince and also yeah I’ve never read this book… else I’d have a segment in this post in speculating why this is the case)

Out of curiosity (and also because I hate missing or getting info wrong), I checked the Cookie Run (for Ovenbreak) wiki to confirm that’s how Young Prince was written. And then I rewatched the CRK Dark Mode cutscenes.

Turns out they changed the way they refer to Young Prince Dark Choco: 어린 왕자 다크초코 쿠키-> 젊은 시절의 다크초코 쿠키

Notable changes are:

1) For starters, 젊은 시절의 다크초코 쿠키 directly translates to “Dark Choco Cookie of Youth”. Note that the word prince was added in the English localization and is not included in the original text.

2) 젊다 is a different word that also means young. Specifically, it refers to being young in thought or action. However, it’s not the same type of young (think like how you would treat a baby/toddler vs. how you’d treat an older teen. With a baby, they’ve just started living and thus know very little about how things and people work. It’s cute at times and annoying at other times. On the other hand, teenagers are still children but they’ve lived much longer than babies, so you expect them to be more mature/responsible than a 5 year old). Also unlike 어리다, 젊다 can be used to describe anyone that’s younger than you and doesn’t really suggest a certain age range because it depends on the speaker and the person they’re referring to.

The big question that can be taken away from this is:

1) Why the change from 어리다 -> 젊다 ?

Disclaimer: I’m not Devsisters so I can really only make guesses but here’s the take we ended up with.

The writers for CRK realized that using the word 어리다 ended up making Young Prince Dark Choco seem younger than he should be, and that 젊다 was a more reasonable choice to properly depict Dark Choco’s age.

Something interesting that was brought up in addition to this point while this section was being checked over is that 어린 왕자 다크초코 쿠키 makes Young Prince Dark Choco sound like he’s a naive little boy who doesn’t know anything about the world because he is too young while 젊은 시절의 다크초코 쿠키 makes him sound like he’s a proper aged man who went through lots of things to obtain many achievements.

I’d also like to point out that they also haven’t changed the way they refer to Young Prince Dark Choco in CROB. It’s still 어린 왕자 다크초코 쿠키 (and I took the screenshot yesterday as of writing this to double check). And both CRK and CROB are treated as mainline games (but probably alternate universes) that are no more canon than the other.

If you ask me what this possibly means, I really don’t have an answer LOL

“So if they aged Young Prince Dark Choco up in CRK, how much older is he supposed to be compared to? Is it possible they aged him up to be an adult?”

The answer to these questions can be found on a specific post posted on March 25th, 2022 by @ gingerbrave_dev on instagram (and @ GingerBrave_Dev on twitter). Gingerbrave_dev is one of the official Cookie Run accounts.

It’s a collage of 4 pictures that depict Dark Choco Cookie growing up. The caption on both Instagram and Twitter is the same which reads as follows:

The important thing here is that Young Prince Dark Choco is *included* in this collage which is said by an official Cookie Run account to be a depiction of his childhood.

Meaning that it’s more likely that if there’s a possible cutoff for Young Prince Dark Choco’s age, the oldest Young Prince Dark Choco could be is 18. (The age range for adolescence, the last stage of child development, is between 13 - 18). But because they include Young Prince Dark Choco in this post, I personally think that Young Prince Dark Choco isn’t meant to be an adult overall.

(Ok quick edit: Adolescence is apparently the transitionary stage between childhood and adulthood but tbh I’m not sure if most people sit down and double check that every exact piece of info aligns with the correct word and definition when designing a character).

And that’s pretty much all I have on official statements and canon that directly (not really) talks about Young Prince Dark Choco’s age.

However, I want to shift the focus from discussing directly about what his age is to why I personally read Young Prince Dark Choco more as a teenager.

When I first saw Young Prince Dark Choco back in 2019, what stuck out to me was the stark contrast between this past version of Dark Choco and his current self. Young Prince Dark Choco is so much more hopeful and driven compared to his current self. He exudes a lot more confidence based on his lines and his main goal in CROB is to save his kingdom by gaining more power. We get the implications from how pessimistic current Dark Choco is that his own actions (obtaining the Strawberry Jam sword) leads to his kingdom’s downfall and he regrets those actions from his past.

For me, that was how I originally concluded he was a teenager. And honestly, I never really reflected about the actual reasoning until we started having this discourse 2 years later because the headcanon just seemed really natural to me.

Fast forward to January/February 2021 with the release of Cookie Run Kingdom, which ended up giving us a lot more lore on Dark Choco. There are two things that are relevant to my proposition of Dark Choco being a teenager.

1) The CRK Artbook

First released during the game’s release, it contains concept art of the world building and the characters (playable characters at the start of the game + ancients + legendaries), who get their own page or two to themselves.

I’m pulling this image off the internet because the one thing that stands out to me and that is also relevant to what we’re talking about is that the current Dark Choco presents more similarly to when he was a child (they’re both quiet and hold serious expressions on their faces).

Meaning that Young Prince Dark Choco is confirmed to not be Dark Choco’s original personality (for lack of better words. I don’t know how to word this better). And seeing Dark Choco and Dark Cacao standing next to each other, you can see how much they resemble each other. Like father, like son.

So the question is: why is Young Prince Dark Choco’s demeanor completely different from when he was younger?

Personally, I think the answer is much more simple than one might think: Young prince Dark Choco was a teenager. More specifically (and this is how I’ll segueway into the next section), Young Prince Dark Choco was an earnest teenager prince who began to question and challenge the traditions/structure of the Dark Cacao Kingdom and of his father.

2) Dark Choco, Dark Cacao, and the Generational Divide that Drives Them Apart

The release of Dark Mode would bring both a lot more long-awaited lore for Dark Choco, and also Dark Cacao Cookie, who piqued people’s interest especially since he is Dark Choco’s father.

The most significant moments happen through the magic-induced flashbacks Dark Choco is forced to relive through, where Young Prince Dark Choco interacts with multiple people. This includes his Dark Cacao, who is the only person to have two separate flashbacks.

The first flashback is a conversation between Dark Choco and Dark Cacao which will be posted below:

What Dark Choco says here stands out to me: “Our Kingdom is in need of change…! We can’t keep hiding behind our walls!

The Dark Cacao Kingdom’s walls is a major subject of Chapters 13 and 14, as one of the main conflicts in that chapter is between the people and Dark Cacao. The villagers outside the kingdom’s walls have been struggling with food shortages and attacks from wild animals. They’ve been trying to contact the king for help but Affogato intercepts and closes the door on them before they can. Meanwhile, most of the resources are being used on maintaining the kingdom’s walls, which causes a change in the portion of the food Dark Cacao’s subjects are receiving. Affogato takes advantages of this to try to cause dissent among Dark Cacao’s court, which was his original plan until the Cookies of Darkness show up.

What’s revealed about why Dark Cacao spends so much time and resources on maintaining the kingdom’s walls is that the walls serve as a safeguard against the Licorice monsters in the Licorice Sea from overtaking the land and eventually the entire world. We get to see a great example of this as Licorice Cookie summons a gigantic Licorice Monster that proceeds to break down a significant portion of the walls.

So from what we read in chapters 13 and 14, we can conclude that the walls is very necessary in protecting the Dark Cacao Kingdom and the Licorice Monsters are nothing to be laughed at. They’re formidable enemies.

It’s very likely from the way that the walls are Dark Cacao’s #1 priority rather than directly addressing whatever is happening with the villages outside the walls that Dark Cacao probably has had previous firsthand experience with the Licorice Monsters and consider them that much of a serious threat.

From the way Young Prince Dark Choco talks to Dark Cacao in the flashback, it sounds like he doesn’t share the same perspective as Dark Cacao.

This is why I think Young Prince Dark Choco being a teenager is a major factor into this difference of perspective.

The thing about teenagers is that during that stage of life, they are going through a lot or at least they think they’re going through a lot because that’s when puberty starts to kick in and the hormones start jumping over the place.

They start questioning their identity. Who they are, what they want to be, what their role is in society. They’re trying to figure out how to be their own person.

They can start questioning the rules. Why am I doing [insert here] ? Why doesn’t Mom and Dad let me do this and that? Why do I have to do this? And because of this, they can become defiant and challenge authority and even what they previously just accepted as fact.

Because of this, teenagers take risks and can make bad or stupid decisions all the time. They end up clashing more with their parents because their parents recognize that their kid will regret what they’re doing later due to the consequences their kid will have to face (and possibly even due to firsthand experience when they themselves were teenagers).

I think all of this applies to this particular flashback.

a) Questioning

Young Prince Dark Choco argues that the kingdom, and by extension, the way Dark Cacao runs it needs to change. He describes kingdom’s walls not as defense, but as a means to hide, which frames the amount of time that the people of the Dark Cacao Kingdom have been living behind as a sign of fear/cowardice. This is also in response to Dark Cacao telling him that he’s still young and has a lot to learn. The flashback seems to throw us, the reader, right into the middle of the conversation without any previous context but with Dark Choco’s response, I think the conversation they were having is overall related to Young Prince Dark Choco’s response.

b) Identity

Something to keep in mind that every person is unique and how they grow up is largely influenced by their environment (the family and friends around them, their socioeconomic status, etc).

Young Prince Dark Choco is not your average human being Cookie. He is the son of Dark Cacao, who is the one of the most powerful cookies in the entire cast outside of the legendaries and the dragons, a warrior known for his abnormal strength (the sword he uses takes 3 regular cookies to carry it) and heroic deeds (like splitting the White and Black Dragon which is treated like a legendary tale), and due to all of the previous, an esteemed king beloved by all of his subjects.

By being the son of Dark Cacao and therefore, the prince of the Dark Cacao Kingdom, Young Prince Dark Choco had a whole legacy to live up to. And although we know Young Prince Dark Choco ends up not being able to live to that legacy due to the Strawberry Jam Sword, we do know from other characters that Dark Choco at that time was doing really well.

Note that if Caramel Arrow, the First Watcher, says that Dark Choco Cookie taught her how to use the bow, then that means that he is most likely also exemplary not with just swordsmanship but also archery as well.

Also don’t forget about how Dark Choco saves the Milk Village from a pack of cream wolves, which leaves a great impression on the Milk Cookie we know.

For the most part, I think Young Prince Dark Choco cares about the people and the kingdom he lives in. He seems very earnest in wanting to help his kingdom from what can be seen in his costume lines in CROB.

But I also think there’s one more underlying possibility behind Young Prince Dark Choco’s character: Young Prince Dark Choco wants to be a hero like his own father because he wants his father’s approval.

In Chapter 14. Dark Choco and Dark Cacao have a very heated conversation right before they try to kill each other. In this conversation, Dark Choco talks about the grievances he’s held against his father over the many years since he was banished. One of the grievances that he mentions is about how he wishes his father cared about him more.

(Note: There’s been issues with the ENG dub for Ch 13 and 14 where the localization makes Dark Choco come off as harsher and more insensitive (so to speak) even if it’s not accurate to the original text.

For the first screenshot, a more accurate translation would be “Ever since I was little, you didn’t give me anything sweet and treated me harshly. We were not even close as father and son like other people.”

Second screenshot is fine.)

This is later acknowledged by Dark Cacao himself as who says after they finish their heated conversation, fight, and finish their sword fight with Dark Cacao defeating Dark Choco: “It is clear as day now… My life’s greatest regret is that I never gave you enough… love”. (And this acknowledgment and really the confrontations leading up to the acknowledgment is the key to Dark Choco finally being able to break away from the sword, but that’s an analysis for another day).

There’s also these illustrations from the art book that stand out to me in this regard (and also makes me depressed). The first illustration showcases young Dark Choco walking behind his father and in his shadow. It actually gets redrawn in a different perspective in the collage of Dark Choco’s childhood I showed earlier, where it adds the detail of young Dark Choco tugging at Dark Cacao’s cloak. In the second illustration, Dark Choco is holding onto the Strawberry Jam sword and staring down at Dark Cacao, who is seated and bent over.

The thing that stays consistent is that Dark Cacao’s back is turned towards him, and I think this represents both this distance in their relationship and Dark Choco’s inability to ever connect with Dark Cacao very well.

I think the combination of his accomplishments during this part of his life and his desire to be closer to his father and gain his approval causes Dark Choco to start both overestimating his abilities and coming to the wrong conclusions. And I don’t necessarily mean this as “Dark Choco became arrogant” because even Dark Cacao says it himself: “What a bright and responsible child he was… Kind, humble…”

But I do believe the reason Young Prince Dark Choco’s costume lines in CROB and the monologue Dark Choco gives after he decides to quit working for Dark Enchantress talks about power and how he was looking for it is because Young Prince Dark Choco wrongly assumed that the kingdom’s problems were a result of not having enough power and then concluded that he could solve those issues if he found a way to become more powerful.

And with what I talked about earlier about how Dark Cacao most likely considers the Licorice Monsters a serious threat that can’t instead just be simply dealt and done with, there’s a chance that Dark Choco not only overestimates his own abilities but also underestimates how powerful and dangerous the Licorice Monsters are because he’s likely never had any firsthand experience with them in his lifetime unlike Dark Cacao.

And my guess is that Dark Cacao noticed this and tried to advise Dark Choco against this conclusion, and that’s what at the root of the first flashback between Young Prince Dark Choco and Dark Cacao.

3) Defiance

Unfortunately, the last two sections I’ve just talked about ends up leading to what we know ends up happening to Dark Choco. He does not listen to Dark Cacao. He finds the Strawberry Jam Sword, believing that it’ll give him the power he needs to solve his problems. Instead he falls prey to what the sword whispers to him, and this results in slashing his father in the chest. This results in Dark Cacao banishing Dark Choco from entering the Dark Cacao Kingdom.

TDLR for this section: The difference in the years of experience between Dark Choco and Dark Cacao causes a major clash between them on how to tackle the Dark Cacao Kingdom’s current issues. Out of both an earnest desire to help the Kingdom he grew up in and the people he grew up with and cares about and a desire to gain his father’s approval by striving to be the type of hero his father is, Dark Choco looks for the Strawberry Sword and falls victim to its powers, which heavily damages the relationship between father and son all the way until Chapter 14 of CRK.

You’ve probably reached this part still absorbing a bunch of information and speculation I’ve thrown at you. Unfortunately, I still have to talk about Milk so yes the post somehow still isn’t over. Luckily or unluckily (depending on how you interpret it), there’s a lot less stuff I can really say about his age, and there won’t be a very extensive character analysis like there is with Dark Choco because Milk Cookie does not have nearly the amount of lore or dedicated writing as Dark Choco does.

Milk in the Dark Mode flashbacks in CRK is referred to as 우유 일족의 어린 쿠키 which translates to Young Cookie of the Milk Tribe. As you can see, the word 어리다 is used to refer to Milk, indicating that Milk Cookie was definitely a child. He’s nowhere close to being an adult.

Unlike with Dark Choco, there really aren’t any other details in his backstory that really suggest a certain age range. The most prominent characteristics about Milk Cookie is that he is strongly attached to his beliefs, and within those beliefs is the belief that Dark Choco is an infallible hero that stems from what happened in the past. The root of that belief is admiration, and admiration… isn’t an age-specific trait. You can look up to many types of people and have role models at any point of your life.

I think really the one thing that does get indicated is that Milk is undeniably younger than Dark Choco.

The first image is the concept art for Milk Cookie that was released around Milk Cookie’s release (I assume. I didn’t see this until 2-3 years later). The second image is from the background of Milk’s doctor costume’s gacha art in CROB.

I think that stands out to me the most is that after staring at it, both of these share a pretty similar height gap between them. However, the second photo makes both of them seem taller especially Milk because of Dark Choco’s legs, which are almost half of his body, gets cut off by the photo. The first image also makes Dark Choco seem a lot bigger because of how it’s sketched out (the shoulder pads and cloak end up making Dark Choco look a lot bigger than he actually is in general LOL).

If you asked me to try to gauge the age gap between these two photos, the only thing I’d tell you really is that there’s no way it’s a 10-15 year age gap; height gap is way too short for that. But I can’t tell you a definitive guess because I’m going to be honest: Cookie Run does not do a great job telling you the ages of characters and just leaves it up to the reader to interpret themselves. There’s not really a standard for what a teenager looks like in Cookie Run, and I feel like that’s the reason why people in this fandom really sort characters into either children or adults. It’s because of this that I also think that nobody in the fandom really knows how to determine that themselves, or else I wouldn’t have written a whole analysis on why I think it’s actually reasonable to see Dark Choco as a teenager in this post. (And there’s also a few other characters that have also gone through age discourse but I don’t want to even touch that right now at all LOL).

(Edit at 12:22 pm because I feel like I need to add this: It’s not the fandom’s fault for not being able to determine ages. It’s solely on Devsisters alone because if the writers aren’t clear, then it’s much harder for the fandom to agree upon anything.)

I also think that realistically you can’t really… come up with an infallible standard for how tall a person is supposed to be at a certain age because people grow up differently depending on multiple factors. People of the same age group aren’t all the same height or weight in real life.

And it’s even more difficult to tell literally anything if the writers refuse to actually confirm anything clearly and instead use vague descriptive terms.

That being said, I can’t actually point at you and say you’re wrong because of what age gap you give to Milk and Dark Choco because as I said in the beginning of this post, I don’t know anything. I also think it does go both ways though, and less people should stop acting like their interpretation has been completely canonized.

But at the end of the day, we’ll keep reading the same stories from the same franchise and interpret how we want to. I HC DarkMilk with a two year age gap. You don’t have to agree (and I bet a lot of people don’t LOL). And that’s okay.

If you ask me whether I’ll make another post talking about this topic, the answer is an absolute resounding no because I think this is the most in-depth I could possibly be about this topic to the point this is definitely my longest post ever. I don’t think there is anything else I can say.

If you liked this analysis, you don’t need to do anything. If you’re extremely tired from reading this, this is the most understandable reaction to this post, and I hope you have a good day.

#holy fucking shit. it’s done. it’s over. oh my fucking goddd #cookie run #cookie run ovenbreak #cookie run kingdom #dark choco cookie #dark cacao cookie #milk cookie #darkmilk #dark cacao cookie gets tagged because he’s an important part of the analysis #cinder rambles #long post

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phantombanquet · 1 month

Text

【NYLON JAPAN】 Dramatica ACT 4 Interview

Original Article

translation by phantombanquet

What day is it today? It's the opening day of the stage play!

From left to right: Ikkei Yamamoto (Hokuto Hidaka), Taiki Yamazaki (Shu Itsuku), & Kazuma Yasui (Wataru Hibiki)

Today is the opening day of Theatrical Company Dramatica ACT 4 / “Witch and Gingerbread House”!

Once the curtain rises, an enchanted world of fairy tale and mystery awaits.

Taiki Yamazaki, Ikkei Yamamoto, and Kazuma Yasui pose in outfits inspired by the idols they play.

Take a look at the elements that are reminiscent of Shu, Hokuto, and Wataru!

From left to right: Ikkei Yamamoto (Hokuto Hidaka), Taiki Yamazaki (Shu Itsuku), & Kazuma Yasui (Wataru Hibiki)

QUESTION: Today is finally the opening day of Theatrical Company Dramatica ACT 4 / “Witch and Gingerbread House”! This work is a unique 2.5 dimensional stage project in which the idol characters based on the popular app game ‘Ensemble Stars!!’ act as actors in an original story separate from the game's story. Please tell us the things that you keep in mind on stage when playing a role in the theatrical company ‘Dramatica’.

Yamamoto: As for the theatrical company ‘Dramatica’, I am conscious about the process of creating the stage and amount of time needed to interpret the role as a character since I think these are very important. For example, I played the role of Goku in Dramatica ACT 1 / “Journey to the West- The Eternal Legend,” but rather than deliberately expressing “Hokuto playing as Goku,” I think asked myself, “If I were Hokuto, how could I put a lot of effort and stress in playing as Goku?” and I think it is important to worry together with them during rehearsals. I felt for the first time that when the character and I—as the actor—are in harmony with each other, the two roles in my mind become one. And I think it would be great if that aspect becomes the charm of the theatrical company ‘Dramatica’.

Yamazaki: When I asked to play in ACT 1, someone pointed out that I was acting too similar to Shu Itsuki. It's always a difficult thing to figure out the amount of seasoning to use. This time in “Witch and Gingerbread House,” I also still want to retain the character of Shu Itsuki in some parts of my performance.

Yasui: It is really difficult to play the role as Wataru-san. Since his character is an acting genius, I can never fail. During ACT 1, I honestly felt like throwing up because there was so much pressure (Laughs). But after finishing ACT 1, I think that pressure has changed for the better. I realized that if I think too much, I would get stuck. It's hard to express it well, but I believe I am more conscious of how much I can match with Wataru-san's mindset when he does theater performances.

QUESTION: All of you appeared in ACT 1 and ACT 2, what can we expect to see more of this time around?

Yasui: Although I play the same ‘Wataru Hibiki,’ the character I play changes drastically depending on the performance, which is always very refreshing. Of course, this time, ACT 4 also has a different role to play! Moreover, there will be interactions with idols who have not appeared before, so I hope you look forward to seeing how this will cause a chemical reaction to spread. I am sure that something new will happen that wasn't present in ACT 1 or ACT 2.

Yamazaki: During ACT 1, I started out feeling rather clueless about how to do it. But once it begun, I felt a great amount of strength to stand alongside with my colleagues. It is a memorable work in which we put in a lot of effort to establish one new genre. This time, since I also performed in the previous two productions, I am much more familiar with various aspects, so I hope to create it a work that will make people think, “This is Dramatica!”

QUESTION: In addition to appearing in Theatrical Company Dramatica ACT 4 / “Witch and Gingerbread House,” Yamamoto-san will also be in charge of directing the play. Please tell us your expectations in terms of the stage production.

Yamamoto: The most important thing is for the audience to enjoy the show, and I hope that my direction will help them immerse themselves in the performance. I would like for the audience to finish watching the play without leaving the world of “Witch and Gingerbread House” until the curtain rises and falls. Hence, there are various production devices, such as stage sets moving along with the scene and the changing of the lights, but I believe that it is ideal for the audience to enjoy this real-time changes than stress ahout them. The appeal of theater performances is that it allows you to enjoy the phenomenon happening in front of your eyes as a form of entertainment. Without that, it wouldn't be any different from watching a drama or a movie. I hope I can direct in a way that will make the audience feel the fun and greatness of theater as a ‘real’ thing.

QUESTION: Lastly, please tell us the appeal of Theatrical Company Dramatica ACT 4 / “Witch and Gingerbread House.”

Yamazaki: In this case, the visuals are full of Shu's worldview, and are quite dense and extremely detailed. I will be performing with Mika Kagehira (played by Hiroki Ino) from the same unit for the first time in a while. In addition to Mika, there will be idols other than members of Dramatica who have not met in the previous stage plays, so I hope that you look forward to seeing how they will interact with each other!

Taiki Yamazaki

X (formerly Twitter): @TTTTTTAIKKI103

Born on October 3, 1995 in Shizuoka Prefecture. He won the Judges’ Special Prize at the 23rd JUNON SUPERBOY CONTEST. He began his acting career in 2011, and in 2017, he appeared in Uchū Sentai Kyuranger Hebitsukai Silver/Naga Ray. Currently, he has been active on several stages including “Ensemble Stars! THE STAGE” series as Shu Itsuki, Musical “Thrill Me” as Him, “Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street” as Anthony, and numerous other roles. In addition to acting, he has a wide range of activities, including music where he performs under the name Nemurinitsukumade Tsukiatte. The Theatrical Company Dramatica ACT 4 / “Witch and Gingerbread House,” in which he plays the role of Dicy¹ (played by Shu Itsuki) will be performed from August 23rd (Friday) to September 3rd (Sunday) at Shinagawa Prince Hotel Stella Ball in Tokyo.

Ikkei Yamamoto

X (formerly Twitter): @IKKEI_YAMAMOTO

Born on June 1, 1989 in Tokyo Prefecture. He is active in 2.5 dimensional stage plays of various well-known works such as “Ensemble Stars! THE STAGE” series as Hokuto Hidaka, “The Vampire Dies in No Time” as Draluc, Musical “Moriarty the Patriot” as Louis James Moriarty, “ROCK MUSICAL BLEACH ～Arrancar the Beginning～” as Byakuya Kuchiki, and others. In recent years, apart from acting, he has also expanded his range of activities, including directing. The Theatrical Company Dramatica ACT 4 / “Witch and Gingerbread House,” in which he plays the role of Arc¹ (played by Hokuto Hidaka) will be performed from August 23rd (Friday) to September 3rd (Sunday) at Shinagawa Prince Hotel Stella Ball in Tokyo.

Kazuma Yasui

X (formerly Twitter): @XOXO_KID616

Born on February 12th from Aichi Prefecture. He has appeared on several popular 2.5 dimensional stage plays such as “Ensemble Stars! THE STAGE” series as Wataru Hibiki, “Tokyo Color Sonic!! the Stage” as Kairi Kurahashi, and others, as well as in the Off-Broadway Musical “bare” starring as Jason. He also performs music under the name ‘Yasui Kazuma.’ The Theatrical Company Dramatica ACT 4 / “Witch and Gingerbread House,” in which he plays the role of Patty¹ (played by Wataru Hibiki) will be performed from August 23rd (Friday) to September 3rd (Sunday) at Shinagawa Prince Hotel Stella Ball in Tokyo.

TAIKI:

Shirt ¥44,000, pants ¥44,000 (both GALAABEND / SARDIVISION PR), belt ¥7,150 (Wrangler / Edouin Customer Service), ring ¥63,800 (GARNI / Garni Tokyo), boots ¥45,100 (YOAK / Hemto PR)

IKKEI:

Shirt ¥89,650, tank top ¥80,300 (both SHEK LEUNG / INNOMENT), shirt around waist ¥60,500 (FACETASM / FACETASM AOYAMA), pants ¥39,600 (SHINYAKOZUKA), ear cuffs ¥10,890 (JUSTINECLENQUET / The Wall Showroom), tie ¥15,800 (Queen & Jack / Esteem Press), shoes ¥36,300 (Timberland / VF Japan)

KAZUMA:

Shirt ¥48,400 (RequaLL / Esteem Press), skirt ¥38,500 (GALAABEND / SARDIVISION PR), pants ¥22,500 (COS / COS Aoyama Store), glasses ¥36,300 (GENTLE MONSTER / M), necklace ¥28,000 (Marland Backus / Marland), ring ¥55,000, heart ring ¥30,800 (both from LAMBDA), shoes ¥46,200 (MIKAGE SHIN / Sakas PR), socks: stylist's personal items

MODEL: TAIKI YAMAZAKI (IMAGENE) @RRRRRLIGHT103, IKKEI YAMAMOTO (ARTIST JAPAN) @YAMAMOTO_IKKEI, KAZUMA YASUI (KETEL) ＠NATSUNOYASUI

PHOTOGRAPHER: NAOTO KAWATAKE ＠NAOTOKAWATAKE

STYLING: SHO FURUKAWA @SHOFURUKAWA_

HAIR: HIROKI KITADA ＠HIROKI_KITADA

MAKEUP: HINATA SAKURAGI ＠H__PPPPP

EDIT: SARA OMORI, AIRI ASAHI

TEXT: AIRI ASAHI, AYU TSUCHIYA

DIRECTION: YURIKA NAGAI

WEB DESIGN: NAO WATANABE, ANJU OKAWA

translator's note:

¹ - There are no official released English localization for the names of the characters in ACT 4, so I've decided to translate them literally instead. This will change once an English localization of their names is released.

additionally, this isn't fully proofread (English & Japanese because both are not my native languages) since i just translated this by myself. if there are any errors, please feel free to correct me through dms 🙇🏼

#ensemble stars #enstars translation #enstars dramatica #dramatica act 4 #shu itsuki #hokuto hidaka #wataru hibiki #yamazaki taiki #yamamoto ikkei #yasui kazuma #phantombanquet #phantombanquet enstars #phantombanquet haiyuu #phantombanquet butai #ensemble stage #enstage #phantombanquet enstage

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jeannereames · 7 months

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Dr. Reames, a simple question from someone interested in history but who is not part of the academic world: in order to study Alexander the Great and Ancient Greece in general, how much Ancient Greek does one have to learn? Would you need to learn Demotic Greek or the many other dialects, such as the one from Macedonia? As in, you’d need to learn one or more versions of Ancient Greek?

Thank you in advance! I always enjoy your responses!

How Much Greek Do I Need to Read about Alexander?

It depends on how far you want to go…what’s your end-goal?

If you’ve no desire to make it a profession, the good news is you need very little Greek.

Most ancient Greek and Latin texts are available in translation in the major languages of (European) Classical studies: English, French, German, Italian. Now, if you want them in Polish, or Japanese, or Bengali, you’ll have more of an issue. But the Loeb Classical Library (and LOEB ONLINE) has English translations of virtually all extant (still existing) Greek and Latin sources, and if you’ve got access to a (larger) college library, they probably have them, even if you have to ask them to get things out of storage. Latin is red (PA6156); Greek is green (PA3612). Budé is the French version of Loeb, btw.

Loeb texts also have Greek and Latin on the facing page, but I mention them because they’ve got translations of (almost) everything. One can find cheaper versions without the Greek/Latin from Penguin, Oxford, et al. But those don’t have, say, Aelian, or Athenaeus, or the obscure texts of Plutarch’s Moralia. Loeb does. That said, the Alexander histories (Arrian, Curtius, Plutarch, Diodoros, and Justin) are all available in relatively cheap translations. Much earlier, in answer to a different ask, I listed our main sources on Alexander, extant and lost. It’s a longer read, but perhaps of interest.

(See below for more online sources in translation.)

So, no, you don’t need Greek. But, if you’re at least moderately serious about reading beyond pop history, you will want to learn a few Greek words to better “get” Greek sensibilities. Say, timē (τιμή), which means honor/public standing/esteem, but has all these attendant connotations. If you start reading the Serious Stuff (articles and academic books), authors will throw these around so it’s useful to know them, as they tend to carry an entire freight of meaning we don’t want to explain every time we use them. These are words I make my students learn in my intro to Greek History class (2510), so there aren’t many. (Undergrads put up with only so much, ha.) For Alexander, it’s also useful to know the Greek names of some units, such as the Somatophylakes (the royal Bodyguard of 7), or the Hypaspists (the specialist hoplite phalanx, not the same as the Foot Companions), or even the name of the long pike (sarissa). But you can make do quite well with a vocab of maybe 30± Greek terms.

It's only if you want to pursue research at the advanced (graduate) level that you’d need Greek. Even then, it’s mostly Attic Greek. The only time you’d need dialects is for quite specific study and/or epigraphy (inscriptions). Epigraphers are language specialists. Most of us, even the “pros,” don’t work at that level. But yes, if you’re getting into extensive examinations of passages, it’s good to understand the language for yourself, not have to trust a translation. Translations are, by definition, interpretations.

I hope that encourages some folks to embark on reading the original (primary) sources. Of more import for these is to understand HISTORIOGRAPHY. Even those who can read the Greek, but lack historiographic training, tend to take stuff at face-value when they shouldn’t.

Go HERE for a discussion of historiography (with regard to Alexander). Again, it’s part of a specific ask, but I explain why we need to know something about the historians who are writing our texts, in order to understand those texts. It’s another longer read, but essential.

Almost forgot! If you prefer video, I've also talked about the sources on TikTok: Part I: Intro & Lost Alexander Sources and Part II: Extant Alexander Sources

Some Useful Online Sources to Bookmark:

Perseus (at Tufts.edu): clunky as hell because it’s old (in internet years), but indispensable. English/Greek/Latin/other texts in translation and original language, plus all sorts of other tools, including an image bank. Pitfall: these are translations outside copyright, so old and sometimes problematic. Still, it’s free, and so-so much stuff here. Every person dealing with the ancient Med world has this one on speed-dial. (You can find other online sources with various texts, but Perseus has, again, almost everything; it’s the online Loeb.)

Stoa Org Static: a version of the original where you don’t have to sign in. Takes you to various super-helpful pages, including the Online Suda (a Byzantine encyclopedia you can search: look up “Hephaistion” there. *grin*) Bunch of other helpful links.

Wiki Digital Classicist hypertext list of topics ranging from the Beasley Library (of pottery) to the Coptic Gnostic Library and various online journals. Just click around, see what’s there.

Topos Text: clickable map of places which includes all references to them in ancient sources. So if, say, you want to know where X places is, mentioned in Arrian, you can find it on the map.

PHI Searchable Greek Inscriptions: I have used the tar out of this. It’s much easier than Inscriptiones Graecae, and comes with English translations.

More Online Resources: more links. This is just one of various collections out there.

Again, ALL this stuff is free. Even when you may have to pay (like Loeb Online), the amount of material you can now lay hands on even without a uni library is fantastic.

JSTOR: requires a subscription, but, if you’re a college student or can get access via a uni library, you can look up material for free. Problem: JSTOR has different subscription packages, and only the really big Class-A Research schools have large holdings for Classics. I’m regularly foiled in things I need, as my library is smaller. I use ILL (Interlibrary Loan) a lot. If you can’t get what you want via your school JSTOR or ILL, sometimes you can purchase a solo copy of an article via JSTOR Google Scholar. But (hint) always check the journal’s website itself. It might be cheaper there! (The Ancient History Bulletin, for instance, is super-cheap; check their archives. Karanos [Macedonia only] is FREE.) Same thing sometimes with books. Certain publishers have rental options, Open Access, etc.

Also Academia.edu first: Your savior…if the author is a member, and has uploaded the paper you want. We frequently face restrictions on what we’re allowed to upload, and when. Yet we may list an article we can’t yet release publicly. That doesn’t mean we won’t send it to you privately via email if you message us and ask nicely. 😊 Especially if you’re not providing an entire wishlist, or asking for a book for free. It depends on the person, and whether they have a PDF.

#asks #greek language #alexander the great #studying the classics #Classics #source on Alexander the Great #How much Greek do I need?#ancient Greece #ancient Macedonia

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no-face-no-shame · 4 months

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Ok. I said I will write some of my thoughts on Disco Elysium a few days ago, and I'm finally in the mood to do so, so here we go.

First things first - it's one of the most unique, incredible games I've ever played. It just feels different from anything else that I know. The world, the characters. It feels real. The worldbuilding is spectacular. As someone from a post-Soviet country, the atmosphere of the whole game hits too close to home. Even stupid things like architecture - I've seen it all before. I've seen these buildings, those streets. DE is the kind of game that will make you laugh until the full meaning reaches you, and then there is no laughter left.

Staying on the topic - the art style and animation blew my mind. The portraits are beautiful, painted in a very characteristic way. The animation of the game itself perfectly translates the atmosphere of the drawings into 3D. Extremely detailed backgrounds and locations, just a beauty overall.

Great soundtrack. The boat song made me cry. Literally. It just paralysed me. The whole OST is spectacular, but there is something so etheric about this particular track and its placement in the game.

There are no fully good people there. And I love it. I love how complex everyone is. It's one of the aspects that make DE feel so real. Everyone has some shit going on, everyone has some stupid opinions, everyone has fucked something up. Just as in real life. It doesn't make the characters any less sympathetic or likable. Quite the opposite - it makes them feel human in a very touching way.

Harry is a fascinating protagonist. He has so much good in him, and so much evil. It depends on how you play him - from the same background you can obtain such different people. Just like in real life, it's up to you to interpret his past and make a future out of it. Will Harry become bitter and hateful towards everyone? Will he start hating women and pouring his frustrations out on minorities? Or will he see the hope in the future and not give up on himself, letting the world welcome him back? The only chance for him is in love. Yes, you can choose the path of a hateful bigot who scares everyone. But this is how you get the weakest version of Harry. He can't build himself up, create a new himself out of violence and hatred. It only ruins him.

The way DE deals with the topic of addiction is one of the best takes I've seen in any media. The drugs will give you bonuses on checks, so you want to do more of them. Everything seems easier. Before you know, you take something before every check. And we're back at the beginning. I did my playthrough without taking anything, and I'm thankful for that. I like how especially alcoholism isn't shown in a profound, elegant way it is often in media. It's ugly, it's embarrassing, it reeks, it makes you stupid. Nothing elegant about it. Quite the opposite. It's a humiliation. No romanticising.

DE also has one of the best takes on politics I've seen recently. This is a very political game, it's one of the most important mechanics. To cover this topic more fairly, a separate post would be needed, but it's really refreshing to see such a complex portrayal of such a complex topic after being regularly exposed to, well, social media takes on politics. DE seems to be mocking all political fractions equally, however the reality quickly shows that they aren't the same.

Leftist Harry is the only one who has a chance to make some change - not only in his own life, but in the world around him as well. Yes, he's cheesy. Yes, he says stuff that sounds naive. But the thing is - he's right. The naive dreams about justice for the weak are right. It reminds me of that one quote, I can't recall the author, who says that children are naive in their belief that everything should be fair and that life should be good, and they are right in their belief. Things won't change immediately, especially not for Harry. But there is hope.

Centrist Harry never does anything and lets his life remain bad. Just as real life centrists, he sees harm, injustice and suffering, and is indifferent to them. But he's also indifferent to the good of the world. He's stuck in limbo which he will never leave.

Fascist Harry is a miserable rubbish that will probably die soon. He hates everything and everyone, and himself the most. There is no hope. The fascist route is the one where Harry gives up, collapses into the darkest chasms of his own mind. Everything is ugly, everything is violent, and the world will fall apart. Harry takes no pleasure in his views - they literally hurt him (by taking away his morality points), but he can't stop making himself and everyone around miserable.

Now, into the supernatural. I'd classify Disco Elysium as magical realism (one of my favourite literary genre.) Many times it reminded me of South American literature, with its smooth mixture of brutal reality and magic that's just right outside your grasp. There are so many moments in DE when you're wondering if something is actually happening, if this world is magical or not. And you never get the answer. Once again, spectacular worldbuilding and atmosphere.

The Pale is an intriguing, unique concept. A mixture of science and something supernatural. The End, Death, Freedom and Oppressor of the world. There are people who travel through it, yes, but they never come back the same. Some don't come back at all. The whole concept is linked to the side plot with the whole in the universe and the scientist woman. It was one of those parts of the game where I just sat in my chair and thought very deeply about not only the reality of DE, but also about ontology in the context of our world.

Dolores Dei and her becoming one with Dora in Harry's mind. What can I say. The dream was so eerie. I find it interesting that it happened towards the end of the game. "I will see you tomorrow, Harry." He’s not free from her. Will he ever be? The figurines won't win her back. Nothing will, because she's gone. The innocence and war criminal at the same time. The love of his life and his nemesis. With a crown on her forehead and an ugly suitcase in her hand.

I could talk about a million more things, but I think this post is already long enough. My final thought is - if you haven't played Disco Elysium, do it. It's one of those games you won't ever forget. I believe that there is a piece of it that detaches itself from the rest and buries somewhere deep within you, not allowing you to ever forget what you've seen.

#disco elysium #de #i'm emotional about this game ok?#harry du bois #faceless

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jmdbjk · 1 year

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#FOR FREE

I see Joon's feet trending under the #FOR FREE tag but excuse me? We got THIS FOR FREE for thirty plus minutes?

I'm still very speechless.

Jimin playing hard to get.

Jimin telling JK needed to go to sleep because he had schedules later that day, basically making sure JK stayed on-task.

Jimin saying he STILL gets scolded by JK.

Jimin shutting down any ideas of a live with JK.

DAMMIT JIMIN YOU WERE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO DO A LIVE WITH A FEW MONTHS AGO COME ONNNNNNN!?!?!?!

Yes, JK literally has tried to lure Jimin with food, beer, working out, beefcake (flexed his bicep), he's asked coyly, assertively and begged unabashedly. Even Armys tried to convince Jimin.

The comparisons of this to Seven's MV are hilarious... yup, next thing we'll see is JK faking his own death serenading Jimin from his casket.

"Come on Jimin, let me come over, I'll bring my shower stuff and we can do it in the shower... I mean from the shower... or just whatever, pleeeeeeez...."

Knowing Jimin's default is naked while at home and him texting JK a pic? Please can y'all stop sending dick pics to each other while we are watching?

K-Army is saying the tone of voice JK was using, the context, the polite/casual speech they both used was off the charts couply. A lot of us are international Army and all we see are straight up dry translations and can't really understand how important all those things are in communicating in Korean society. It is easy for I-Armys to interpret the dry translations differently than how Koreans interpret them. I depend a lot on what K-Army says and defer to them as to how to interpret Jimin and Jungkook's relationship.

But seriously, even I could tell JK was speaking in satoori when he was chiding Jimin about saying he wasn't in condition to do a live... "we don't worry about that Jimin, we just do it when we feel like it."

Jimin: "you've forgotten what my personality is like"

I can hear Jimin now... "I don't have any makeup on..." Jimin-ssi. Please. Slip off your chelsea boots, leave your hair alone and relax a little. It's not like you've NEVER done a live before with no makeup and bed head.

We have JK on one side being the free-spirit/in-the-moment-go-with-the-mood vibe and Jimin on the other side being rigid and in total control of everything.

I'm still salty because Jimin censored himself during his Face album live when he realized there were young people watching as he was about to explain his concept of looking in the bathroom mirror in the Like Crazy MV.

I see a collision happening with these two mindsets and I think Jimin sees it too hahahahaha! "I'M SCARED OF YOU!" he doesn't know what kind of shenanigans will happen when they are together on a live because we also know Jimin LOVES HIS JK and can't resist climbing all over him when they are together!

Who could resist that:

Jungkook swapped the stud in his newest lip piercing for another lip ring and he re-pierced his right ear and the jewelry is very pretty. The earrings have a very fine chain hanging from the first to the last hoop. Edgy and delicate at the same time.

We have expectations now for his next live. Keep moving those chains JK! Maybe joking about a live while showering is not such a joke after all.... I'm kinda scared too, Jimin.

JK's July 27 live:

I had started a blog post about the July 27 two and a half hour live but NOOOOoooOOOOOooo, JK has moved the line again with the naked-in-the-bed live, so it's almost pointless to blog about the one from the previous day now.

Except I was thrilled when he responded to my ask if he had seen Jimin's Barbie guitar. What a thrill to interact with him in real time... I'm still just... wow ...

But a few things I took away from that two and a half hour live:

JK getting so emotional when he watched and listened to the Army Love Letter song. I broke down in tears as soon as I saw him being overcome.

And the live translating is not automated, its done by real people:

About 15 minutes into this purple 2.5 hour live, someone must have asked about Tae's album because JK says yes, he's heard a few songs and they're good. I am very excited to hear what Tae has created, especially after seeing the music critic say it is something unexpected. Of course, Tae's love for Bing Crosby-ish vibes could be what he's talking about and that wouldn't surprise me if that's the direction Tae goes. Later, someone in the comments asked if Tae would do a Seven dance challenge with him and he said Tae wouldn't do it. Why not Tae? Hmmphf. Fine.

Anyway...

Right before logging out, JK sang Jimin's Dear.Army (Letter) swaying back and forth so sweetly!!!! It was so beautiful. Might be the closest we come to hearing them singing it together. He loves that song.

Tomorrow we get to watch JK's episode of Suchwita and the day after that we will see him on Inkagayo.

All of that and I still think about Jimin and Jungkook had a camera crew with them on that dang boat in Connecticut a few weeks ago... if it was for a Seven TikTok, shouldn't it have been out by now?... so where will we eventually see that? Hmmmmmm???

#lmao jk said “yo bro whassup bro?”#i say YO BRO WHO GOT YOU SMILIN LIKE THAT???#i kinda think its adorable that jimin feels naked without makeup #2023-7-26: JK changes new stud to lip ring and re-pierces right ear #FOR FREE #jikook #kookmin #minkook

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archivalofsins · 6 months

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Kotoko's first question is so boring- my god... Despite that I still have a good deal to say on it. So, let's get into it.

What's your ideal image of a hero?

Literally, what does that have to do with anything,

"Oh well she brings up heroes in her song a lot."

Okay, fine, whatever. My problem is the whole ideal thing. Firstly, ideals are things that are simply not realistic.

Ideal

Satisfying one's conception of what is perfect; most suitable.

Existing only in the imagination; desirable or perfect but not likely to become a reality.

Meaning this is just what she would want it to be not the reality. The only thing interesting about her answer is that depending on how it's translated she's literally just describing Es.

Something that isn't new either because the first translation of Deep Cover in the MILGRAM/Song of Prisoners- The Second Trial Trailer highlighted that already by having the lyrics as,

"So, I became your fang. I've chosen the awaited hero."

Not having her say she's become the awaited hero but she's chosen the the awaited hero. The person that seems to embody those ideals. The official translation of Deep Cover adds more nuance to the song by making this line less direct.

Instead making it,

"That’s why I became your fangs as the long-awaited hero."

Leaving it up to interpretation whether Kotoko is referring to Es or herself. Yet that ambiguity is not present in the translation they have not changed from the second trial songs trailer. Where she just downright states she's chosen the awaited hero. Meaning the hero isn't her and never was.

Making this question at best only serve to reiterate something that had already been expressed not only implied in the official translation but bluntly stated in the first one we got.

The second issue is these are the types of ideals she looks for in a hero. She has never said she's wanted to be a hero or that she even strives to uphold or adhere to the image that she considers ideal of heroes. It's not like this question was what sort of hero do you strive to be what are morals you live by.

Because we asked that second question-

Q.12 What is your motto?

Kotoko: “There’s no other way that could let us live, so I walk this path.” [TN: Quote from Mushanokouji Saneatsu.]

This answer may just literally be disconnected from her as a person entirely. I personally believe that it is but everyone else is free to believe whatever they want. I don't know I guess it's kind of good to have this reiterated plainly but it's not anything new to me.

I guess the most interesting thing is the different ways it can be translated.

Something, @doctorbunny brought to my attention earlier.

Which is the thing that made me go well she's just describing Es. Someone who aids the weak i.e agrees with those who they believe had very little options but to do the things they did. Such as the people they found innocent and discourages the strong or self-assured like with the people they found guilty.

The people they found guilty were the most committed to their decisions. Showed little issue with or anxiety over their actions and some still rightfully don't. Like Amane. If that's her definition of the strong she's a part of the strong.

Q.03 Do you think any other prisoners who committed the same sin as you deserve to be forgiven?

Kotoko: Of course. Haven’t I already said that I believe my actions have been correct?

Q.13 Do you have any regrets?

Kotoko: No.

Something that she's never done a thing to hide. She literally separates herself from the weak in her second trial voice line.

"From the beginning I've never asked for your understanding! My actions, one by one, are bringing earth closer to peace. Useless weaklings should just shut up and let me protect them!"

So, at best this just shows nothing new because she's exactly the same and may probably never change or at worst downright displays she does not consider herself a hero or weak.

Something that is subtly highlighted in her second voice drama. When she again separates herself from Es and other people with those idealized mindsets from herself as being unwilling to do what is necessary to truly get what they claim to be seeking.

Yonah

How ridiculous… It's always like this… All of you weaklings always act like this… All of you enjoy seeing someone getting hurt… Might be so. All of you enjoy seeing a bad person falling down… Can't deny. You keep asking for it, but as soon as it happens near you by your own choice, you all start complaining and evading your responsibility… You're always like this… Always such idiots! I acknowledge it. You're the strong one, and we're weak. You're right. But that's how we are.

Es, even downright stating that she's strong. Something that Kotoko does not dispute. In fact she actively agrees with that statement.

You have no power, and yet you make no effort to gain it! You're talking about justice, but it just doesn't make sense! You're invested in people's disasters, yet you take a position of "I have nothing to do with it"! You can't even face your true selves! Whatever you say. If you brag about hating evil, act against it! Carry on the belief that your actions can change this world! If you only brag about it from afar, the world will just continue to rot no matter how many of you are there! If you don't have strength on your own, let me take care of it, Es! I can do it in MILGRAM!

Because she's strong and does have power she can do it.

Q.18 Have you ever personally been persecuted in the past?

Kotoko: I haven’t. But are you trying to say that if you haven’t had those experiences, you can’t hate evildoers?

Because she doesn't hold herself to the same limitations as those weaklings that believe in those heroic ideals. She can walk the path necessary to get to the desired outcome. Because the means don't matter.

Q.15 Which is more important, the objective or the means?

Kotoko: Objective. Does that not go without saying?

Only the outcome does; useless weaklings holding onto silly moral rules like not hitting children- Should let her handle it if they don't have the stomach for it.

Ah, about that... My apologies. I couldn't give enough pain to Kayano Mikoto and Momose Amane. ..! You..! I attacked everyone in order, but because of the interference caused by Kayano Mikoto and Mukuhara Kazui, who was protecting Kajiyama Fuuta, I couldn't finish it properly. But I was still able to do some damage. After attacking Shiina Mahiru, I had no time left for Momose Amane. You've planned... on attacking Amane too? That's right. You haven't forgiven her, so wouldn't it be justified? But she's just a child... So what? This "child" is kept here because she murdered a person, isn't she? Right... You thought I won't attack her because of the young age? Sorry for disappointing you. It's all because of my lack of strength.

It wasn't because of Amane's age she just lacked the strength to do it. It was all because Mikoto and Kazui intervened. Kotoko bluntly admits that stating she attacked the prisoners in order and stating that Mikoto interfered. Not that she attacked him.

Meaning this is more than likely what occurred.

Kotoko attacked Futa- Kazui intervened then probably went to Shidou to request help after Kotoko fell back. Not really expecting her to attack anyone else. This would explain why Kazui said this to Shidou on Amane's birthday-

22/06/27 (Amane’s Birthday)

Kazui: What’s up, Shidou-kun? You’re looking pretty down. I guess you must be tired, I’ve been relying on you a lot lately. Shidou: Yeah, I just remembered…… today is Amane’s birthday. I’m just getting a bit sentimental. Kazui: Hmm, it’s unfortunate, but at the moment we can’t worry about that. ……you understand, right? There’s something that you need to do right now. And if you tried talking to her your words definitely won’t reach her. Don’t look at me like that. We’ll just wait until the situation changes. Let’s do our best. Shidou: Yeah. I’ll do what I can. I can’t have a child making a face like that. Even though we’re “murderers”…… we’re also the adults here.

It would also explain his statements on being too slow when it came to Kotoko attacking Mahiru. Something Kotoko blatantly admits to doing and I have no reason to believe she'd lie about. If he was looking for Shidou that would explain why it took him a bit and why Mahiru was able to get treatment so quickly.

Just gotta emphasize again that Kotoko states that Mikoto interfered so got the jump on her this time. So while Kazui was attempting to find Shidou, Mikoto more than likely intervened in the midst of Kotoko attacking Mahiru or heading for Amane. Which would explain why he tells her this.

22/12/15 (Kotoko’s Birthday)

Mikoto: Ah, Koto-chan. It’s been a while Both of us have kinda split off from the group, but how’ve things been? A lot’s happened, but for now let’s try to get along. I mean, it’s your birthday today, right? I got the feeling nobody else was going to do anything, so I came to celebrate. Kotoko: ……how carefree. It doesn’t matter, a villain like you won’t be forgiven next time either. And when that time comes, it’ll be the end for you. I’ll make sure of it myself. Mikoto: Ahh?? Just try and do it, you nutjob. I’ll crush anyone who hurts me…… You’re gonna be totally beaten at your own game……! [TN: The word “me” here uses first person pronoun “boku”.] Kotoko: Hm. The border between the two is getting a lot vaguer. Your entire existence is a crime. And I will see you’re punished for it. That is what Milgram, and Es, and I have chosen.

Mikoto stating a lot has happened but let's get along for now. Again showing he knows that something has occurred but is being vague about it. Given she says Mikoto interfered she was not directly attacking him when he did. Which is very funny considering he just used payback and went about his day.

He saw her attacking someone like he was when she attacked him in his first voice drama and went hey how do you like it. Then she said not at all. She admitted in her voice drama that it was disruptive and stopped her from completing what she set out to do which is why she's so mad during that birthday interaction.

Meaning Kotoko more than likely doesn't have that much access to verdicts and was simply going off of her own observations when it came to discerning who was guilty as displayed over the course of the portal timelines during trial one.

21/12/15 (Kotoko’s Birthday)

Haruka: Ah…… H-happy birthday, Kotoko-san. Kotoko: ……thanks. You’ve definitely changed a bit. Do you remember before? You could barely even talk to me. Haruka: I-is that so? Now that you mention it, I, I maybe have got a bit better since then. ……m-maybe I’ve got more used to being around people. There’s other people here who are interested in me, and, um, in particular Mu-san pays a lot of notice to me…… I… I’m enjoying myself here…… Kotoko: ……hmm. It’s just a theory I have right now, but I get the feeling the outcome of Milgram’s judgements are having some influence on our mental state. Well, I only noticed because I happened to be last up though. Good for you, then. This must mean that you’re fine. ……I’ll accept those birthday wishes.

21/10/24 (Shidou’s Birthday)

Shidou: ……oh, Yuzuriha-kun. It’s unusual so see you around this early. Wishing me a happy birthday…… probably isn’t the what you’re here for, huh. Kotoko: No, it is. Happy birthday, Shidou. Though it’s not like I bought you a present or anything. But while I’m here, I’d also like to ask you something. Has anything changed for you recently? Having nightmares, hearing voices, feeling anxious…… anything like that. Shidou: Not especially, no. ……ah, so this is about how Kajiyama-kun and Shiina-kun have been strange recently? And she’s been trying to hide it, but Amane too…… We’ve been living in these conditions for a while…… it’s not unusual for there to be an impact on us mentally. Are you worried about them? You’re a very caring person. Kotoko: Hmm, so you noticed? If nothing’s wrong with you, then that’s good. ……if I’ve understood properly, that means you’re safe……Once again, happy birthday, Kirisaki Shidou.

Even though Shidou just lists off all the guilties for her... He does point out that regardless it doesn't mean much especially considering their circumstances. It just wouldn't be odd for people to get more stressed out in this situation after a certain point. This is why in her voice drama she asks for confirmation from Es that Amane was guilty because she really didn't know she just fucking guessed for all of them and acted anyhow. At least she was right.

I mean some people could have just been having a bad time and been innocent like Yuno but still could have gotten jumped based on her logic. So, it's more likely that she didn't base what she did on guilty percentage but just prisoner number.

Apologies for the tangent. Ultimately Kotoko states she can do it within Milgram because she's already done the same thing outside of it. She knows she can do it. That she's no weakling like the rest. She's strong so-

Useless weaklings should just shut up and let me protect them!

All the people who aren't should just stay out of her way. The awaited hero will be someone who can help the weak and discourage the strong. Someone who can see that what she did was right. Someone who understands because they're human after all but also someone committed enough to not let their emotions get the best of them. Someone who can-

Say that sympathy is useless.

And

Hate evil as the evil that it is.

Someone like Es who states they won't go easy on someone just because they're a friend. In Futa's second voice drama. Someone who's choices have caused those they've disagreed with immense mental anguish. That some have stated was worst than being physically beat up.

Causing them to keep hearing voices telling them that they were wrong while feeling constantly watched and judged. Causing them to feel insecure, anxious, and waver in their beliefs or dissociate. Something Kotoko states she's recognized in her second voice drama and that it isn't much better from her physicially injuring them.

That's why when I saw this answer I immediately thought she was describing Es.

Still this answer shows that Kotoko doesn't really care what type of violence is used to crush/dissuade the strong be it physical or emotional/mental. As long as someone can do that and is aiding who she believes to be the weak that's a hero in her book. It's quite funny that no one has asked her to define who she considers to be the weak. Yet, I doubt that would look as good as having her repeat her very barebones explaination on the good/evil, strong/weak dichotomy she's created.

This elicited a very wow tell me something I don't know response.

Q.20 What do you consider “evil”?

Kotoko: The persecution of the weak and innocent.

Q.16 How do you feel about extenuating circumstances?

Kotoko: I think it’s important to consider. I don’t believe it’s true that all crime is inherently evil, so obviously the situation should be taken into account.

Because the weak and innocent in Kotoko's eyes doesn't just equal someone that is objectively good or an individual being persecuted unjustly. The meaning changes based on the circumstance. Something I find funny because she can be so specific when it fits her needs but continues to describe these things with such subjective language and very little detail. That's odd to me and makes it difficult for me to not go well great here's some more shit we already knew.

Literally if she did what Kazui did with that one questions that would have been more interesting.

#milgram #kotoko yuzuriha

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