#(but still in between Not Nonbinary and Not Not Nonbinary)

[elguritch-art]

Is it possible for a Tremere and a Tzimisce to fall in love? 🥺Absolutely fucking not!

But an incredibly weird sugar daddy/sugar baby toxic yaoi situationship where they're nearly triple digits divorced and gotten back together? HELL YEAHHHHH!!

Introducing my other two current VtM bastards for my other game I play in weekly, who have one of the messiest kindred/kindred relationships I think I've ever made

Plague doctor-turned-modern-doctor vs 1800 snake oil salesman who thinks his patent medicines still work. This is a frequent source of arguments between them.

More lore/details below!

Yvain Vasse d'Ostun | Tzimisce | Nonbinary (He/They) | 329 (25) Plague doctor from the early 1700s turned modern practicing doctor. Embraced after catching and slowly dying from the septicemic plague in France, later on moving to the US and gaining their various medical licenses. Suffers from chronic pain, movement disabilities, and feeding disabilities from the septicemic plague still in their system, trying to destroy their body at the same time it's healing up over daysleep.

Wesley Carter Howard | Tremere | Trans Man (He/Him) | 194 (46) 1800s Snake oil patent medicine salesman who STILL thinks his patent medicines made with arsenic, laudanum, and cocaine are valid forms of medicine. He and one of his broodmates were ghouled for decades under their sire, who they eventually murdered, but not before embracing each other with his vitae!

Other fun facts:

Wesley has never gotten top surgery as a trans man, specifically because he whines and bitches and gripes about his tits in front of Yvain who's offered So Many Times to give him top surgery, all because Wesley thinks it's funny

Yvain is so fucking mad about the fact that Wesley was able to develop bathtub vampire HRT with blood sorcery and other alchemy concepts when Yvain insisted it couldn't be done, Wesley lauds this over him CONSTANTLY

They're both in a semi-open relationship only because Wesley roams all over the U.S. and Yvain can't stop him from sleeping with other people. Wesley sleeps with other people ONLY because he knows it makes Yvain possessive and fired up and he LOVEEESSSS that shit

Wesley has never seen Yvain's war form before and Yvain had to enter it in a recent session, and one of the other coterie members who knows Wesley is going to LORDDDD that over him when he comes back to the city

their relationship is so fucked up and toxic yaoi and a complete disaster and at the same time there's so much genuine adoration between them. Yvain, despite feeling incredibly possessive, knows that keeping Wesley contained to one spot would absolutely kill him inside, so they let him roam and come back, and compared to their hospital staff and ghouls, they're EXCEPTIONALLY lenient with his behavior. Wesley, despite loving arguing and tormenting Yvain, genuinely does care for them and worries constantly over their chronic pain from the plague in their bloodstream, and has been secretly working on trying to develop essentially vampire ibuprofen to try and relieve some of their pain temporarily.

[ratbastarddotfuck]

By the way, if we really want to decouple sex from gender (which we do, right?), y'all need to stop telling multigender people that they can't call certain aspects of their gender trans if it maybe aligns with their gender assigned at birth as given by a total fucking stranger when they were a baby.

My trans identity is multigender. inside that, I am a man, a woman, nonbinary, and a variety of flow states between. Every single aspect of this is trans. My man parts are trans, my woman parts are trans, my nonbinary parts are trans.

I once saw someone say "You shouldn't call yourself a trans woman if you're an afab girl. you can call yourself a demigirl, but not a trans woman. that word's not for you." but is demigirl not a trans identity? What if that "demigirl" wants to be a demiwoman? What if she doesn't want to let a stranger dictate how she labels her gender, again? Does she not have the right to identify herself as a woman with a trans identity?

I'm a woman with a trans identity. I'm a man with a trans identity. We call these kinds of people trans women, and trans men, respectively. It does not take anything away from anybody else to utilise language in this way, in the same way that it does not inherently take anything away from cis men and womens' genders for trans people to exist.

I find the hostility I've encountered absolutely unwarranted, and it feels like most of it stems from some caricature of an idea of what I am rather than an honest and open minded attempt to understand why someone would identify this way - a feeling that, I'm sure, is familiar to any trans person who has tried to explain themselves to a person who already had a hostile concept of trans people to begin with.

A lot of this discussion about AFAB transfems and AMAB transmascs is being had by intersex advocates who are often detailing how AGAB tells you far less information than perisex people think about someone's life experience, and you should really be fucking listening to them about this. If you are a perisex queer person, you need to be listening to intersex advocates YESTERDAY. But they are NOT the only people in this realm - multigender people exist, and we have every right to call our genders trans, because they fucking are. I'm not suddenly cis when I'm woman-mode, that would be absurd to assume. I'm still trans, and a woman, at the same time, and I should be able to say so without facing backlash from my community. That shit fucking hurts. We are people who have gone on often long and difficult journeys to find our genders, just like most trans people, and the fact that we are so constantly talked over and talked shit about and harassed about the words we use to discuss our relationship with gender is just so sickening honestly.

Change your hearts or die mad, because gender freaks are going to keep doing gender freak shit forever, and the only thing you can do about it is enforce social shame and bioessentialism. Not a good look, and it won't work forever.

[your-bigender-big-brother]

A note on the usage of such terms:

There is no "demi-exordinous" or "demi-ordinous" so terms like aporagender are still exordinous. Ordinous genders must be entirely within male, female, androgyne, epicene, and neutrois. Yes, there are terms that are niaspec but also outherine, and in certain discussions they would be considered as having both an exordinous and an ordinous quality, but such "ouiningenders" would be considered exordinous genders. The context of the discussion is important.

These are specifically meant to be used in discussions about topics like outherinity, where the definition states that it exists outside of masculine, feminine, androgynous, and neutral. Maverique has a similar definition but is stated to exist outside of male, female, androgyne, and neutrois. Ilyagender is not man, woman, or neutral nor anything in between while péra is not male, female, androgynous, or neutral. A lot of these have the same idea in mind. We can elimate this wordiness by introducing the concept of exordinosity to the conversation.

They're flexible terms and specifically have two parts - ex/ordinous genders and ex/ordinous qualities - and the distinction between gender and quality is important. Masculine is not an ordinous gender, it is an ordinous quality. Xenogender is not an exordinous quality, it is an exordinous gender.

These are not to be combined with identity labels to create new terms because that takes away from their usage. Terms like viabinary, ideobinary, etc. don't get this treatment, so I expect the same for these. Their usage is very much like the usage of terms from the alibinary system.

Agender and agenrinity can't fit this model and don't fall under ordinous or exordinous. That's just the nature of genderlessness in the same way that agender/agenrine are not nonbinary or abinary to most people.

The concept of exordinosity helps steer away from the idea of a gender or quality being "atrinary" and in the same manner, ordinosity avoids the concept of trinarity. Both are more inclusive of genders that tend to be shoved into the trinary/atrinary boxes.

I think that covers most of what I had in mind. Obviously the more these terms are used, the more they'll evolve and be better understood. People might even come up with related terms to fill the gaps I might have missed. That's the beauty of complex gender topics, that we find ways to make the conversation just a little bit easier for ourselves and others.

I came up with some terms that I think will help in discussions about gender. I like flags, so these terms got flags, but it was mostly for fun.

Ordinous (left): A word to describe genders that fall within the common, pre-existing qualities of masculine, feminine, androgynous, epicene, and neutral. It also describes genders such as man, woman, androgyne, and neutrois and anything in between them. Ordinosity is the noun form of this word. When we talk about the ordinosity of genders, we're talking about the unifying quality of ordinous genders.

Exordinous (right): A word to describe genders that do not fall within ordinosity. This would include outherinity, maverinity, ilyaginity, xenity, itherinity, périnity, and anything else outside of ordinous genders or qualities. Exordinosity is the noun form. All of the previous examples of exordinous gender qualities have a unifying exordinosity to them.

This is a way to make conversations about gender a little easier. It's wordy to say "Such and such genders exist outside of the pre-existing qualities of masc, fem, neutral, and anything in between." It's much easier to say "These genders exist outside of ordinous qualities."

I'm willing to workshop these but I wanted terms that did not already exist, were easy to remember, and had suffixes that wouldn't be mixed up with gender qualities (such as adding the -ine ending that quality terms have.) I don't want to come up with an in-nature, quality, or spectrum term. These terms are simply meant to make language a bit easier when talking about genders that sit within or outside of convention.

If these terms are generally acceptable and useful, then feel free to use them. Add them to whatever wiki sites are out there. Put them on a Carrd. I think they'd really help.

- 💙💚

[millidew]

trans4trans4tra...sh (playing with these characters like dolls)

[uncanny-tranny]

I think what might actually help the families of trans loved ones is to actually engage with where the trans person is at - especially if the family isn't quite understanding yet. When I came out, I was completely alone in figuring out my manhood. I had peers and I had exposed myself to so many trans people who explored gender, and while it was amazing, it isn't quite the same at times. I grieve quietly, sometimes, about all the missed opportunities that might have just made it easier for my family to have seen how utterly happy I was. It took them a very long time to actually notice that I was happy, especially once I got on testosterone. I'm lucky that they saw that happiness eventually, and slowly accepted it. My manhood is completely detached from their influence, both to my relief and chagrin. It's sad to me that I learned to shave from a kind online stranger, somebody who didn't even have a father and yet, I do. I have a father. I grieve at the loss of a potential shared experience. I grieve about the pain I went through when I was in that stage of transition, especially because it was raw and vulnerable. I grieve that many trans people today are traversing the path I had to, because it's sometimes lonely (even when you do have other forms of support).

It's hard to know that I will never have gotten my sense of being from my family. In many ways, it has severed a lot of connection with them because there were so many times that I was begging them to see happiness when they were focused on the idea that I was almost in a state of purgatory - flesh which felt warm but held no familiarity to them. I don't harbor ill-will toward them, I hope I don't leave the impression that I despise them. I understand what they felt, even if I can't conceptualize it myself. However, it's a raw wound in my heart, and I don't want to leave anybody else feeling that way, either.

[3ofspades]

Out of all the things to crack my egg, I never thought it would be Being Employed

To start off, I identify (or did identify) as nonbinary and preferred they/them pronouns. So far, I've kept my birth name, since it's all I'd ever known, and I don't often share my pronouns with others until I really trust them I had always liked it when I went out presenting androgynously and liked it even more when I was "mistaken" for a guy. I thought it was affirming because it was so opposite to the normal "she/her" I would receive all the time. I still would dress "femininely" from time to time, mostly because those clothes are often more visually interesting, the same is true about makeup. I think the egg (or the egg within the egg) started to crack when I cosplayed a guy and drew on facial hair. I looked... really good. My grandma was visiting at the time and casually asked if I was trying to pass. I'm still unsure of what exactly she meant but it sparked something in my chest. Later, I started experiencing chest dysphoria more often and stronger than before. I'm not out to my family and can't really get a binder so it's been a bit of a struggle. But most recently, I got a job. I work a lot of hours at a well know company, with high standers of presentation for its employees. I've had a lot of meetings, introductions, all that good stuff. And every time I introduce myself by the name, I currently go by irl, I feel a little twist in my heart, a pull that something is not quite right. I got dressed for a meeting in a pretty butch outfit and did a little makeup, but it felt so wrong, dysphoria creeping under my skin. I hear my name a lot more then I'm used to now. Even in college, people hardly had to say it, I guess. But now it's every day, every day a small twang in my heart at that name, a harsh pull when I hear someone say, "You'll be helping her today". To be fair, I've only told one person my pronouns and only hinted at it with others, as while we are a company that claims to care about inclusion, the average employee may not be as open. I have a good relationship with a lot of my co-workers, and I don't want that to change. Back to gender, I did some self-searching and realized that I may be a bit more of a guy then I thought I was before. Suprise!

[ebonytails]

maybe im just dumb but what is the difference between kris p and kris t?

TL;DR - They are Kris Dreemurr fictives and we needed a way to differentiate them

Oh you're not dumb, don't worry! It really is a little confusing because we haven't talked about who they or we are in a very long time. I'm going to talk a lot here so you have all the context you might need! If it''s too long,, the TL;DR above is the gist of it.

For context, we are a system! You can read about it a little in our FAQ

Kris T and Kris P are TWO Kris introjects/fictives of Kris Dreemurr from Deltarune in our system.

Originally we just had Kris T who split in Dec 2018, and then when Chapter 2 came out, Kris P came into our system after that. Of course at first, Kris T. was just "Kris", but since we had a double now, we had to figure out how to differentiate between the two. We knew another Kris fictive from a different system at this time who was nicknamed P. Kris by Susie in our system, and susie wanted to emphasize who she was talking about.

SO. As a small nod to that, everyone decided to nickname Kris P as Kris P, as an inverse of P. Kris.

A little convoluted, I know!

Besides being Kris introjects/fictives though, they also look different! I made some new drawings to try and showcase their differences if that helps :3?

Their dark world forms also look different. Kris T's is simpler, with a shiny soft cape, while Kris P's is more complicated with a hooded cape, which is also described as "very comfortable"

Here's a whole Toyhouse of images of how Kris T. looks like right now! There's also his reference ! vvv

Sorry if you weren't interested in our "life story"! They're not just random characterizations (they are alters), so I wasn't sure how to answer w/o giving you some sort of explanation.

They have their own sideblogs, so if you have specific questions directed towards them, you can always ask here because we'll see it better, or you can send them an ask in their own blogs. Kris T's is @kristalpepsi, and Kris P's is @itswhattheycallyou

[prince-liest]

I’m reading Witch King by Martha Wells, and now that I have read more than one (1) series by this author, I have been suddenly brained with a two-by-four sharpied over with “realizing that I really enjoy novels by Martha Wells because they live in the specific niche created by the intersection of casually and thoroughly queer casts and non-romance storylines”

I am as ever a sucker for non-human main characters struggling with their very human feelings, which is why I jumped on Witch King the moment I saw “the author of Murderbot wrote another book with a main character that’s non-human,” but I live in this dichotomy where I can really enjoy reading queer romances but I don’t really identify with non-ace characters (which is not actually something I figured out how to differentiate until I was Last Week Years Old). so there are lots of books out there that I enjoy reading but it’s comparatively rare for me to read something that feels like it was written For Me and Martha Wells does that very well

anyway, give me more ace it-pronouns human-spliced robot main characters and people-eating demons who consider rank over gender when finding new bodies to inhabit

[househrt]

I simply Cannot get a read on how Amber and Park would've interacted and what they would've thought about each other

[depressedcatgirl]

oblivion remake: *changes "male and female" option to "body type 1 and 2" and gets rid of the very minor stat differences between player genders in a game that barely references the players gender at all*

"anti woke" gamer incels who get triggered by the concept of pronouns:

[theygender]

Oh damn I just realized I'm going to have to deal with being nonbinary at work IN PERSON for the first time

[fallenrain40]

im like, nonbinary in an agender way. agender in a "im actually just a canine" kind of way. genderfluid in a "well I don't always 100% identify with the label, but since my identity is constantly changing it fits me in a broader sense"

[punkiio]

I know that, as of right now, Lucy and Maximus are the canon relationship in the show (and I like them together)... But I can't help but think that the show has the perfect opportunity to use Dane and Maximus as commentary on the way queer people in the military were treated in that era (40s-50s) and what their lives were like, if they decide to make Dane and Maximus have at least a little thing together...

[thegreatyin]

being a big fan of gender selectable and/or gender ambiguous characters is so hard because everyone defaults to calling them a guy all the time and it's like. i GUESS that's correct. i guess. you're perfectly free to decide that because that's the point of gender being choosable and im not one to dictate how you play or interpret your playthroughs or opinions on the game. im still gonna fucking kill you though.

[taamlok]

who else up crying over dragon age rn

[bitegore]

ok this isnt meant to be a dig or anything but it's always really funny to me when people like just cracking 30 are like "omg you're in your early twenties, you're a babyyyyyy"

babe you're like barely 30, you're a baby too. You're a blink and a half older than me. I spend too much time around people over 50, the difference between 23 and 33 is a few years at a job and a little more distance from living in your parents' house but it's like, nothing. the gap closes every time you breathe and every time i move. the difference between you and me is like one-fifteenth the difference between you and my dad's friend Joe or whatever. don't worry you'll get to live more life too, but don't kid yourself.

and this is doubled when it's coming from a 25-year-old currently experiencing a crisis of age because they're soooo old, they're 25, the horror! You are twenty-five. We have an age difference of three years. Your concern over this is embarrassing for you and highly entertaining for me. But like don't kid yourself here. You are 25. You are a like a fucking baby to me.