#A person can be at least one world where clark and bruce are evil

[sbnkalny]

A person can be HUMAN despite being born a clown.

[ultfreakme]

I’ve honestly just learned to ignore and block all of Jay’s haters atp because all they’re doing is just trying to get a reaction out of people, mostly DC editorial. They literally message, tag, make essays and do all kinds of shit nonstop just so they can “persuade” the writers at DC to give them what they want, it’s like watching toddlers pulling a tantrum tbh.

If DC editorial cared even a little bit about what these people want or think they would’ve done something about it by now imho. But they probably see how disgusting, evil, and malicious the hate is that they refuse to give them what they want especially for a character who isn’t even a bad person. No one’s hurting them or stopping them from liking the things they like either so their hate really is unfounded.

It’s pretty sad especially for LGBT+ Asians to see so many people have such a vicious and scathing reaction to him simply existing but when people are that mindlessly hateful there’s really not much else you can do but ignore them, and I firmly believe is what DC editorial has chosen to do. I’m just glad Jay is still even present and being mentioned by name in the stories and I really hope they keep him.

Also people don’t realize Jon’s content is very scarce since he’s usually overshadowed by Clark just like how Bruce’s content overshadows his kids, so I hope DC will try to pump out a little more content for him.

I;m usually pretty good about blocking people, like my block list is super duper long and like in my head, I know half of this is just to get a rise out of Jay fans, but sometimes monkey-brain react. But yeah I totally get you.

DC is terrible at handling POC characters and if they didn't want Jay around, he'd be gone. But he's only becoming more prominent as the years pass and he's even part of an event now (a thing I thought won't happen for another 10 years). Like you have no idea, how much I was shaking, when I saw Jon asking for Jay right after coughing up blood and being brainwashed, and also saying "The Truth" is what's important to BQ. It feels especially significant to Jay because we got spoilers from the Nicole & Sina stream that Jay is very present in Absolute Power: Super Son, when Jon was fighting against the mind control. At least with Jon, it's a bit of a reference to Jay too, thematically.

On an objective level, I know Jay is here to stay. A lot of characters who were introduced around the same time as him, or even later than him have just kinda disappeared. But I am glad DC themselves have clearly chosen to ignore the haters regardless of the spam and the hate.

I think these days, there's people turning against the de-age Jon stans(especially on twitter and a lot on tiktok) primarily because they are.......the way they are......General comic fans who aren't particularly into Superfam are recognizing it. I think this is the best the atmosphere has ever been in terms of support and love for Jay and Jon.

And you're so right on Jon's content being scarcer. Other than Batman and Superman, no other character gets consistent books or a guaranteed, continuous run. The others who do have been around for decades, like Poison Ivy, Harley, Nightwing, etc. Even Wonder Woman doesn't have her Sensation Comics. In terms of a bigger picture, for how recent Jon is, he's doing pretty fantastic. He's always in events, he's got two independent runs, he's getting a new solo issue with AP: Super Son. I think we've been getting at least one solo Jon project a year since SOKE.

Relatively speaking, he's fine. And I think people also tend to assume he's being too overshadowed by Clark because the de-agers just dismiss any run where Jon shows up these days, unless it fits their perception of what he is now.

Like I had this argument with someone twitter, where they said you can't count Beast World, Lazarus Planet, Nightwing, Action Comics, and DC Pride appearances as Jon content because they aren't solo books. Which is frankly absurd. This also involves a lot of Jay mentions and appearances.

Jay, Nika and Nia are the only characters who were introduced around that 2021-2022 time that are still relevant, and they continue to grow. I think outside of Tom King, everyone else have also started to realize the Damian-Jon friendship just can't be taken back to the way it was so they're each getting stories very separate from one another. Even Jon's stories and themes are getting more divorced from Clark.

Thanks for the message!! Sorry about vent posting like that. I hope we get to see and enjoy more of Jay in the future! I think we might be getting a new run with Jon, or more of just Jon, Jay and Nia based on Nicole's projects and hwo she talks about their future (she called Jay 'Gossamer' so I'm hoping we get to see him function more a superhero in the future!)

[paladin-of-nerd-fandom65]

Thanks for the answers :D can’t wait for your questions! lol

1: if the duo was not best friends/starburst duo in a AU, who would they be best friends/starburst duo with?

2: I know Chris’s archenemy is general zod, since they are “father & son” but why is Jake’s nemesis is victor zassz? Why him specifically out of both Batman’s & Nightwings rogue gallery?

3: you know about the sinister sons from modern comics, which is the evil versions of the super sons, who are the evil versions of the starburst duo?

4: if they can get rid of one supervillain, besides zod & zassz of course, who would it be?

5: what’s something they find overrated? Like something popular like stranger things on Netflix for example.

6: what’s something they find underrated?

You’re most welcome. So here, have some more answer lol XD @pin-crusher2000

1) Recently both @confusedhummingbird @spider-jaysart and I have been formulating an idea for a new character to act as a Wonder family member akin to Diana with Bruce and Clark, a character that’s a third POV and brings a more excited and passionate side to the Duo’s dynamic, someone to compliment them on adventures

Hence I shall take this questions as an opportunity to introduce a new character I can further develop in future posts.

Jake’s other best friend if not for Chris Kent would be named Penelope Haney Troy, a clone daughter of Donna Troy aka Troia created by Project Cadmus. She’s the lively, no nonsense, and adventurous type of girl about Jake’s age who’s always there to bring some comfort and fun to his life as he does for her. Her hero codename would be Hoplite with her main teacher being Cassie Sandsmark, similar to how Jake’s main teacher is Tim Drake

Basically think of her as the Donna to Jake’s Dick; platonic best friends, Wonder Twins

Then there’s Chris, for his best friend besides Jake, without doubt that’ll be Thara.

Oh yeah and these are in addition to a classmate Chris knows well back at school and Jasper Logan for Jake as well respectively for other best friends

2) Well that sort of relationship between Zsasz and Jake happens after a particularly difficult and cruel case involving some street orphans who are mercilessly taken by Zsasz, put into a gladiator type tournament where whoever survives then faces (and inevitably loses to) him. When Jake manages to find the location of this wicked scheme, Zsasz had him captured and personally taken into a duel against him, stripped of his powers, most of his equipment and even his own boots for this match. Had Jake won, the surviving children go free so the brave young hero takes that challenge. It was far from an easy fight as Zsasz was armed with both a butcher knife and a familiar rusty crowbar. The beat down Jake endured during this battle left him scarred both physically and emotionally while Zsasz was utterly remorseless in his work. Thus, Jake has deemed Zsasz his personal archenemy ever since

For more information on that, check out my fic ‘Broken Wings’

On a meta level, I just felt like Zsasz compliments Jake in that sort of ‘person driven by their commitment to their own’ archetype and give it a unique dark twist to it as Jake can attest to. Plus, since the original version of that arc (which btw introduced the world to Colin Wilkes) has its protagonist regularly nowadays have arch-nemeses linked to the League of Shadows in one form or another more often, that left Zsasz up for grabs thus Jake can fulfill that role

3) Oh I have a good passing knowledge of that book (mainly for the fact it’s further taking name of Chris Kent or rather Lor Zod in general further though the mud but I digress);

Now if there’s any sort of evil or at least anti hero mainline universe counterpart to the Starburst Duo, I would cast them being like a bastard preteen son of Blackfire and the aforementioned Vla-Blo (the young bully Kryptonian who was locked in the Phantom Zone by an ancestor of Chris and had the goal of humiliating the House of Zod for this perceived injustice) who both antagonize our main heroes in many fields with the notion in their minds of proving themselves superior to them, though often to failing results.

At least that’s what I can think of for this moment if anything comes up, I’ll let you know ;-)

4) Probably Mongul, a lot of it due to a time when he’s revealed as a mysterious business partner for Blockbuster regarding trading with for some reversed engineered fear toxin and the brawl that ensued between them and the Warlord tyrant was nothing short of brutal and devastating*, even if they stopped that shipped of fear toxin getting to Mongul’s hands.

*Just picture that what the Duo, also Corvus/Jasper Logan and Hoplite/Penelope Troy went through here with Mongul was akin to what happened with Mark Grayson aka Invincible and his friends when they faced Battle Beast for the first time.

5) Definitely the MCU as a general whole, Family Guy and about a few pro wrestlers they can name off the top of their heads….surprisingly not John Cena. More likely Randy Orton, Seth Rollins, The USOs and definitely The Rock. Heck Dwayne Johnson both in wrestling and especially as a film actor, they can’t stand people who claim he’s the best…or rather fittingly The Great One. It internally the Duo out hearing about him in school all the time.

6) Easily the Monsterverse movies, Hell’s Kitchen, We Bare Bears, and during the Halloween season Hellraiser (that’s if Chris and Jake are feeling brave enough to watch through it’s more gruesome moments lol)

[ash-and-books]

Rating: 4/5

Book Blurb: 13-year-old Bruce Wayne attends an exclusive prep school for the gifted. But in this case, "gifted" means kids with super-powers. Bruce is suddenly the least special person in his world--and must learn to work with the talents he does have. It’s hard enough being in middle school, but it’s even worse when you’re the only kid at your school who doesn’t have super-powers. That’s the case for poor Bruce Wayne at the Gotham Preparatory School for the Really, Really, Really Gifted, where the struggles of being un-powered are made worse by the presence of so many exceptionally gifted students. He doesn’t stand a chance of winning a race against the future Flash, or a swim meet against the future Aquaman, and he always gets picked last for dodgeball. And when it comes to winning the attention of the most popular girls at school—Diana Prince and Selina Kyle--he figures he stands no chance at all. Bruce does have a goal though: he wants to make a difference in the world. But how can he do that when he doesn’t have any powers? While the Future-Supers are currently content to simply use their gifts to glide through school and court popularity, Bruce struggles to figure out if he has any gifts at all — and if so, how to use them.  His challenge comes when he discovers fellow student Jack Napier and his hired bully Bane shaking down lesser-powered students for money, including that hapless kid Dick Grayson. Someone must stand up to them and somehow, it’s going to be Bruce!

Review:

What do you do when you go to an exclusive prep school for the gifted...and you have no super-powers? For 13 year old Bruce Wayne, all he wants is to be a vigilante and help people but finding a way to do that is a lot harder than it seems when don’t have super powers like super speed like Barry Allan or super strength like Clark Kent. Bruce wants to make a difference, so despite not having powers he’s going to have to figure out a way to help others with just his brain. When Bruce discovers another student doing evil, it’s up to him to find a way to stop him before other students are harmed. This was a cute new take on middle-school Bruce and his origin story of wanting to become a vigilante and starting off his Batman career. Young Bruce here still has the one important thing about Bruce: he just wants to help people. Bruce is just an ordinary (albeit super rich) guy who has to figure out how to use his own skills and talents in a world filled with super powered individuals. Overall, a fun take on Bruce’s journey to becoming Batman and definitely a unique one.

*Thanks Netgalley and DC Entertainment, DC Comics for sending me an arc in exchange for an honest review*

[notesfromtheozyverse]

NO TITLE NECESSARY

11.22.2022

My favorite superhero is also the first superhero. That’s right: Superman. Why not Batman, like practically everyone else in the world? Well, first I’m going to tell you why Batman is not number one in my book. Then I’ll explain why Superman is my favorite.

As you probably already know, Batman’s origin is a tragic one. Young Bruce Wayne sees his parents killed right in front of him. The criminal gets away, and (depending on which version you’re reading or watching) is never brought to justice for his crimes. Bruce vows to avenge his parents’ deaths by not letting what happened to him befall anyone else. He trains and studies, and eventually becomes Batman. Cool origin, I admit. Batman is in peak physical condition, as well as being one of the smartest men in the world. Oh yeah, and he’s rich, which helps in his quest to fight crime. On top of all that, he has a cool friggin’ costume. I like Batman. I really do. If you want to learn how to persevere in life, and to be the best you can be, it’s hard to find a better example (in comics, anyway) than Batman.

I do take issue with Batman, though. Now don’t get me wrong. I totally understand Bruce wanting to avenge his parents’ deaths, and how traumatizing said deaths would be on such a young kid. It would stick with you for years, maybe even your whole life. But here’s the thing: in the current continuity of the comics, Batman is in his early forties. He is still in peak shape, still one of the smartest (and richest) men in the world. How could he possibly be motivated by vengeance after all those years? I don’t think he is. I think that he’s been doing the vigilante thing for so long, he can’t allow himself to quit. It’s all he knows. Also, he never allowed himself to grieve. It’s no wonder that he can’t maintain a relationship; he has a one-track mind. He’s given himself an impossible goal: to rid Gotham City, and perhaps the world, of evil. It’ll never happen. He’ll never find peace that way. That’s why I don’t get people who want to be like Batman. He’s not a very good role model, in my opinion. Which brings me to why I prefer Superman.

Whereas Batman signifies vengeance, Superman signifies hope. In fact, in at least one version of his story, the symbol on his chest means “hope”. Superman, in my eyes, represents the best we aspire to be. I think that, even if he didn’t have superpowers, Clark would find a career where he could do the most good. Some people say he’s too powerful. I get that argument, but if that’s all you think of when you see Superman, you’re missing the point. Superman is the ultimate outsider. His home no longer exists, and he has to find a way to live in his new home. Superman is about adaptation. He adapts to being on a different planet. He adapts to living like a normal person when he’s not in uniform. He adapts to life in Metropolis when he moves away from Smallville. Whenever I read a particularly good Superman story or watch a particularly good Superman movie or tv show, I want to be better. Superman makes me strive to improve myself. Sure, he’s not perfect, at least if he’s written accurately. If you write Superman as perfect, you’re doing an injustice to the character. He tries to be the best he can be, but he can’t be everywhere at once. But at least he still tries.

In conclusion, while I understand Batman’s appeal, he’ll never be someone I want to emulate. Superman is, and always will be, my hero.

[dented-nado]

Well I mean, since you asked for requests - “If you want me, come and get me.” Maybe with the trinity? I can picture Bruce saying it as Diana and Clark try and force him to go to bed like a normal person 😂 or you know, whatever strikes your fancy!

[[HELL YES. Bruce is slightly ooc because he’s incredibly sleep deprived and I saw it as an opportunity for him to act a little loopy lol. That’s how I am at least when I’m very sleep deprived, so pulling from personal experience here. Enjoy!!]]

“It’s only been one night. Give me a break.”

“Bruce, Honey, I know its hard to tell in Gotham, especially in the winter, but it’s been several nights you haven’t been getting any sleep.” Diana pulled the chair Bruce was sitting in away from the bat-computer against Batman’s wishes.

Bruce was sure she and Clark were exaggerating, it couldn’t have been that long. Besides, he wasn’t even tired, not even a little bit.

“I’m fine, you two can stop clucking over me like hens, thanks.”

“I’ll cluck all I want when it comes to your sleeping schedule mister.” Clark declared firmly.

“Especially not after you convinced me that some humans can be ‘totally fine’ not sleeping for several days and making me feel like I wasn’t quite so weird for a split second before that all came crashing down.” Clark crossed his arms, pouting just a little bit. He didn’t seem actually that annoyed but…

Admittedly, he still felt a little bit bad about that.

“I know… I lied when I said some humans. I meant me, specifically, because I’m fine, I’m great, I’m good, I’m bursting with youthful vigor now both of you let me work. There’s crime afoot.” He declared, trying to pull his chair back forward, only to frown as he realized Diana still had an iron grip on it, so instead he stood up and walked back to the computer instead.

“Bruce, your being ridiculous… and you said "There’s crime afoot” out loud. You’re tired.“ Diana said exasperated with a hand on her head.

"Also, no offense sweet bean… but you look like you’ve been through hell, you have probably the most intense looking bags under your eyes I’ve ever seen.” Clark said, trying to be gentle but serious.

“I look fucking awesome.” Bruce protested in annoyance, not even sure what he was really doing on the computer outside of looking busy. “You’ve heard Harv, I’m a fucking pretty boy. And I feel fan-god-damn-tastic.”

Clark and Diana gave each other a look that said “Yep, he’s lost it.” That Bruce didn’t much appreciate.

He forgot what he was even doing, his new ultimate goal was to not go to sleep no matter what because he was f i n e dammit.

“Bruce, please come to bed. Besides, you know, we’ll be right there with you, we miss you.” Clark pleaded, giving Bruce very tempting puppy dog eyes.

“We can spend a little time tiring you out if you want Bat.” Diana said, soothingly rubbing his shoulder.

Tempting. But he was the god damn batman, so… “No, no bribing me doing the horizontal tango, I have a job to do.”

“The horizontal…” Diana began.

“T a n g o. Bruce, pl ea se , you need to sleep.” Clark finished.

“Why can’t I use creative words without you two thinking it means I’m tired, hmm? Clark’s called me a bean before, I am but a bean, let me live my bean life.” He momentarily felt a little dizzy and a little like he was loosing track of time and space, but regardless he made his way to the bat-mobile to go… somewhere…. who knows.

“Oh-ho-ho no, absolutely not, you are not driving like this.” Clark said immediately super-speeding in front of Bruce acting as a big warm teddy bear-like wall between Bruce and his car.

“I can do what I want. I’m rich, I’m bi, I’m batman, and I fight crime. Now ”scoot your boot.“ as they say where you come from.” Bruce said, trying to move around Clark who was so freaking fast for some reason.

“I have never said scoot your boot.” Clark said with raised eyebrows.

“Really?” Bruce asked somewhat deliriously. “Seems like a cowboy thing…” He  mumbled while moving the cowl up slightly so he could rub at his eye.

“…Would you come to bed if I dressed like a cowboy?”

Tempting. But not even saving a horse and riding a cowboy could get him to give up on his current stubborn crusade that he couldn’t even remember why he had to be on so bad… why had he been up in the first place??

“…No, so yeehaw your ass out of my  w a y .”

“No way, and your yee-haw-ing your a… s…… booty up to bed now,  you’re completely delirious.”

“Fine… maybe I don’t know what I’m doing, or where I’m going, or why right now, but I’m the world’s greatest detective, I’ll figure it out.” Bruce grumbled in annoyance.

He started walking back to his computer since he apparently couldn’t go to his car, but when he tried to sit back down he nearly yelped as it seemed Diana had thought ahead, so he had sat down right into her lap and now her very strong muscular arms were now wrapped around his waist.

“Gotcha.”

“Fu c k.” Bruce mumbled.

This was quite the predicament Batman had gotten himself into! Would he be able to figure out how to escape the strong arms of the Wonder Woman? Tune in next time, same bat-time, same bat-channel!

… Bruce squirmed for a moment grumbling before bowing his head.

“Fine… you’ve won, let’s go to bed…” Bruce conceded.

“That’s more like it” Diana said with a sigh as she gingerly let go.

That was when Bruce took his chance to escape with a triumphant and slightly evil laugh as he took off into the depths of the bat-cave.

“BruCE!” Diana chided.

Bruce just continued cackling, dropping a smoke bomb as he completely forgot that would do nothing against Clark’s super vision as he decided to head for the bat-plane. Good thing he had several bat-themed vehicles.

“Bruce get back here!” He heard Clark call sternly.

“You’re going to get yourself hurt!” Diana yelled.

“If you want me, come and get me!” Bruce taunted with an incredibly delirious smile, not realizing he was about to run into a wall.

He would have, if Clark had not been in front of him again in an instant, causing Bruce to collide with Clark’s chest rather than a rock hard wall. Clark scooped Bruce up into his arms despite the Bat’s protesting and flew him back over to where Diana had her arms crossed and was tapping her foot.

She softly flicked the tip of Bruce’s nose to get his attention and to stop flailing. “Now are you going to be a good bat and change out of the suit yourself, or are we going to have to rip you out of it kicking and screaming?”

Bruce frowned, before getting another idea and perking up slightly. “…There are other ways of getting me out of it~” He said putting on his flirtiest Brucie voice.

“Nice try B, but you blew your chance at the 'horizontal tango’ when you decided to bolt like that.” Clark said looking down at Bruce now with his own smirk on his face.

“Aw, nuts…” Bruce grumbled in surrender, going limp as Clark set him down, pulling off the cowl as he knew he was defeated.

“Your not getting any nuts B, keep up.” Clark said absolutely delighted.

Diana rolled her eyes. “You pick now to make a joke like that Kansas?”

Clark grinned. “Judging by how sleepy he is he won’t even remember that I made my first ever joke like that in front of him.”

“How devilish of you.” Diana commented with an amused smile.

Bruce grumbled as he stripped off the rest of the batsuit. “I wanted nuts though.” He mumbled. “nuts sound good. I like nuts… especially cashews.”

“Your right, he’s definitely not going to remember.” Diana commented, taking Bruce’s hand once he was down to the black undershirt and thin pants he wore under the suit.

Clark put his hand on Bruce’s back as the moved out of the cave. “Come on sleepy-head, off to an adventure called 'bed-time’.”

“But I wanted to fightttt…” Bruce slurred slightly.

“You can fight exaustion by sleeping.” Diana suggested.

“I’ll kick exaust-ian’s a s s.”

“That’s the spirit.” Clark laughed as he gingerly lifted the incredibly tired bat onto his bed before going to get ready for bed himself along with Diana.

“What are we going to do with that man?” Diana whispered, unable to help a small smile, after they had changed into their sleep clothes and came back to find Bruce completely zonked out , snoring slightly with his mouth hanging open.

“We’ll force him to have a normal sleep schedule yet.” Clark whispered, getting into bed and pulling Bruce close in order to spoon him.

Diana joined in on the other side, snuggling Bruce’s head against her chest and putting her arm around both him and Clark as she got settled.

“Our new mission?” Diana suggested.

“Our new mission, will kick ’'exaust-ian’s” butt.“ Clark whispered with a grin.

Diana had to bite her lip to keep from laughing.

"You’ll make a joke about Bruce wanting 'nuts’ but you’ll never say the word "ass”, will you?“ She asked with a raised eyebrow.

"Nope.”

They shared a quiet chuckle before settling in to fall asleep themselves, their very tired, but at least now very asleep bat cuddled between them.

[queerbutstillhere]

For my favourite writer, Damian and Jon get send to an Alternate Universe (maybe young justice cause I'm more familiar with it) and during their brief stay there everyone they interact with thinks they are dating because they act as a couple.

(I'm not sure how I feel about this, but oh well? I hope it's okay! Also it's kinda a weird situation, like they're in an alternate universe, but it's also just Young Justice? Idk I hope it makes sense!)

You know, it wasn't everyday that you're chilling with your Bros, a big blue portal opens in the ceiling and from it falls two vigilantes, cursing and kicking each other, right onto your coffee table, shattering it everyday.

Or at least it shouldn't be an everyday occurrence.

It certainly wasn't that surprising to say the least.

I suppose you want background, don't you?

It was a wonderful summer morning. Timothy Drake, Conner Kent, Cassie Sandsmark and Bart Allen had gone to visit their good friends Cissie and Greta, retired heroes. Tim, being a rich kid, could afford to do this for a weekend, and of course, the others could just run or fly there. So they went out for lunch and then went back to Cissies house, her mom conveniently out for the weekend. They were just chilling and catching up when the portal opened, people fell, and glass table shattered.

Greta had screamed when they fell, meanwhile the others just jumped up, ready to fight. The two vigilantes weren't terribly large, they had landed on top of each other, and the one on top was covered by a large black cape, a hood flipped over his head. He was the one swearing loudly. The other one was clearly a teen, wearing blue and red, and a red cape twisted underneath him. He had black hair and blue eyes and looked . . . Like Clark?

Tim and Kon exchanged a confused look.

"Damn you!"

"Stop it! Would you just stop fighting and hold still while I get a bearing on where the hell we are."

"No! Let go of me!"

"You're bleeding," the teen responded, arms tightly clasped around the person on top of him.

He had spotted Kon and apparently identified him as the current threat, body going rigid.

"I'm always bleeding, let go!"

There was a grunt and then cape man was pushing up, sitting on his companions stomachs as he looked around, eyes landing on Tim.

They both gasped at the same time.

"Robin?" Tim exclaimed, because standing in front of him was an. . . Older Damian?

"Drake," Damian shot back, tilting his head.

"Whoa, wait a minute," Kon said, stepping in front of Tim. "What's going on?"

"Tim, how does he know that?" Cissie asked.

"Know what? His last name?" Robin said with an eyeroll.

"God, Robin, lay off the bean burgers!" The younger man complained, shoving at Robin.

"Shut the hell up, Superboy. Now is not the time."

A small whine escaped "Superboy" and then he locked eyes with Kon again. Sure enough, on his chest was the S emblem of Superman. Kon took a step towards him, and in a flash, this Superboy was across the room, Robin between him and the wall as he glared at them, an arm behind him, touching Robin.

"Stay back. Who the hell are you people."

"Tt. Kent, don't be so naive," Robin said, poking his head out around the taller teens shoulder. "That is clearly my brother."

"You're-" Tim started confused.

"I see that, Rob, but who are the others?"

".... Admittedly I don't know. It appears Rex's portal dropped us into another dimension. . . Fascination."

"Uh! No! The last alternate dimension we got involved in, my dad was evil! Your dad doesn't even know we snuck out."

"Eh. I'm sure it'll be fine. What's the worst that can happen? They send West after us?"

"Robin!"

Tim raised an eyebrow at the two, motioning for the others to stand down, Cassie relaxed, and Cissie stopped edging towards her bow.

"Bart, can you clean up the glass, please?" Tim asked softly.

"Yeah." The speedster blurred around until all the glass pieces were collected, and then appeared with a vaccum, sweeping the rug.

Superboy and Robin had gone silent, watching this.

"He's a speedster."

"I see that."

"I don't trust them."

"And you think I do? They haven't attacked us yet, though, so that's a start."

Tim watched with hidden amusement, this whole time, as they stood against the wall, they had been touching the whole time, Robin's hands on Superboy's arm, which was wrapped around and hooked into Robin's utility belt. It was almost as if they were holding each other back.

"Okay. Why don't we do introductions instead of standing here and whispering," Tim said, stepping closer. "I'm Tim Drake."

"Red Robin. I know," Robin said softly.

Tim frowned, eyebrow raising. "I'm not..."

Robin's eyebrow also raised.

"Maybe he's not Red in this universe?" Superboy said softly.

Robin gently cuffed the back of Superboy's head. "Use your eyes. Read his body language, his posture, his body shape. He's a vigilante of some kind. It seems only reasonable that he would be Red Robin still. His recognized me, which means I have become Robin in this universe already. So unless he quit, or by some miracle, is Batman..."

"Okay, Damian, just, stop," Tim said, waving his hands. "Yes I know who you are. But I'm not Red Robin anymore."

"Oh you did quit?" Robin inquired.

"No. . . I uh. Changed my name."

"Fucking Drake," Kon muttered from behind them.

"Okay, you know what. Greta and I are gonna go to the kitchen why you guys sort this mess out," Cissie said, and sure enough, the two girls just exited stage left-

"What did you change it to?" Robin asked, he still hadn't moved from behind Superboy.

".... Drake."

Robin blinked once. Then twice.

"What the fuck?"

"Look! Okay! It's a powerful duck-"

"It's literally only aggressive when horny, Tim, what the hell?" Robin interrupted, staring at him with the biggest "what the fuck" expression ever.

"I TOLD YOU!" Bart nearly screamed, zipping over. "Hi! I'm Bart Allen, Impulse! I'm Barry's grandkid."

"Uh, Hi. I'm Superboy?" Superboy said, blue eyes cautiously scanning Bart.

"That's hilarious, because I'm Superboy," Kon said, stepping up, wrapping an arm around Tim's waist.

The two Superboy's had a glaring match.

"Cassandra Sandsmark. Wonder Girl."

"Oh, isn't Donna-"

"Alternate dimension," Robin reminded his Superboy.

Tim didn't miss the small sway that just happened to Robin. Neither did Superboy, as he suddenly spun and scooped up Robin.

"You dumbass," he huffed, looking around.

"I'm fine. We have more pressing matters-"

"You are literally bleeding through your armor."

"Kent I'm fine."

"Like hell."

Superboy looked at Tim.

"He took a shank to the stomach earlier. Do you have medical supplies?"

"Somewhere-"

They sent Bart off to look for those, while Superboy laid Robin down on the dining room table, gently undoing all his armor as Robin was forced to lay there helplessly, and just talk.

"As you have probably figured out by now, I'm Damian Wayne, and this is Jonathan Kent. We are Robin and Superboy from our universe," Damian explained, tugging off his gloves and then his mask.

"Wait does that make us brothers?" Kon asked, staring at Jonathan.

"What?" The younger Kent asked , barely glancing up from his task of gently pulling off Damian's layers, every touch and tug painfully gentle.

"Your dad is Clark, right?"

"Yeah."

"He's mine too. I'm Kon, Conner Kent."

"Oh! Cool!" Jon grinned at him brightly.

Neither of them noticed it, but Damian went rigid, and Jon mumbled an apology, looking back down. Bart returned with a first aid kit finally.

"This is all Cissie had."

"I'll take it," Jon said.

While he got to work, ripping his cape for spare bandaged, and using the surgical needle and string that Cissie had wisely decided there should be inside, Damian began explaining what had happened, how they had been battling an old enemy named Rex, and he had, in a last ditch effort, opened the portal, tossing them through it. Cassie and Tim asked a few questions to better understand, and Damian answered them all, barely bothered by Jon working on his stab wound, bandaging it as best he could.

"So wait. We don't exist on your world?" Cassie asked.

"Well, Tim does, and I do believe I've heard of a Cassandra Sandsmark. But I've never met you, Kon, nor do we have an Impulse. Just the Wally's and Barry. Oh and Jay."

"Wild."

"Well, Jon here doesn't exist in our timeline, so it'd not that surprising," Kon said to Bart.

"Yeah but still. What do people do without us?"

"We survive just fine, I assure you," Damian said sarcastically.

Jon smacked his thigh. "Hey, play nice."

"I am playing nice."

"No. You're being a dick."

"This is him being a dick?" Tim asked, eyebrow raised. "You should meet my Damian. . . Hey how old are you anyway."

"I'm seventeen. Jon is fifteen."

Tim exchanged a look with Kon, right as Damian gave a small grunt.

"Sorry, I'm almost done, okay? Hold still," Jon said, lightly touching Damian's arm before tying off the string.

They almost acted like a couple, with the gentle touches and soft tones they used.

"That's cute," Bart said softly, almost as if he had read Tim's mind.

Jon's head snapped up, and he looked at Bart, cheeks turning red.

"So we should most likely talk to Father, and maybe Kord to see how to get us back," Damian said to Tim.

"Yeah. I'll call Bruce. I think he's in Paris though so he may not be much help."

"He'd still like to know what is going on."

Tim shook his head slightly. "Don't you two worry, we'll get you boys back to your own universe as quick as possible."

"We're not children, Drake," Damian muttered, shaking his head. "God I can't believe you picked Drake!"

So they called Bruce, headed to the watchtower, changing on the way. When Tim walked out from the room on the batwing that he had been changing in, Damian just stared at him.

"Why are you brown and yellow."

"It's my uniform."

"That is the blandest uniform I have ever seen. That's not even the colors of a Drake."

"What?" Tim asked confused."

"You're literally wearing the colors of a female duck," Damian explained.

"Dami! Don't be rude!"

"It's cause he's such a bottom," Kon commented, grinning at Tim.

"Okay, gross," Damian said, making a face.

"What? Is that not gay culture on your universe?"

"I wouldn't know, frankly," Damian said with a sigh, looking down at his touchscreen gauntlet, messing with it.

". . . So you two aren't dating then?"

Both of them looked at Kon in alarm.

"What?!" Jon screeched.

"Why would we be dating?"

"Because you guys are all gross and touchy," Kon said, even as he leaned on Tim.

"We are not!" Jon protested. "He's my best friend!"

And yet, when they got to the watchtower, the two walked with their arms pressed together, murmuring softly and pointing things out to each other and in general acting like a couple. Tim may not know this Damian, but he can read closeted gay anywhere. Well except himself.

All of the Justice League was wary of these new vigilantes, but interested too, asking questions. Tiny angry Damian was not impressed with older, happier Damian, but older Damian just smiled and spoke gently to younger Damian for a moment, and then the kid huffed in annoyance and ran off.

"What did you tell him?" Jon asked softly.

"That it was okay and he would make mistakes and to just learn from them instead of beating himself up. And that I was proud of him because I remembered how hard and confusing it was to follow Bruce's rules, but things will get better."

Jon smiled fondly at Damian. "Things you wish you had been told?"

"Maybe."

"Totally not dating," Tim mumbled as he walked past. They both glared after him.

It took a few hours for them to figure out how to send Damian and Jon back, meanwhile, the two just hung out with Tim and Kon and chatted, swapping stories and finding out information about each other. Tim really couldn't believe they weren't dating. They sure acted like it.

"Okay, kiddos," everyone looked up as Barry walked over. "Time to go, we've got it all figured out."

They walked over to where the portal was supposed to open.

"Thank you, for helping," Damian said, pressing on his mask.

"It was our pleasure," Tim said with a grin.

Jon said goodbye to Kon, and then ran after Damian through the portal. Tim just laughed and shook his head, and turned to Kon.

"I liked them."

"They were most definitely dating without realizing it yet."

"Oh yeah."

Send me a prompt!

[backdeck-potato-novelist]

I Get the Feeling that I’m Right Where I Belong

Chapter 5

AO3

Beginning, Previous, Next

There were exactly three good things Damian could identify about his father sending him  to Paris for a month.

First, he would be away from his brothers and sisters for a month. He loved all of them (and would never tell any of them), but he was also very relieved to be somewhere else for a bit. Tim and Cass where the only other ones who still lived at home with him, but everyone else was always coming by the manor at the most random hours. Some time away would do him well.

Second, he would be out of school for a month. He may only be eighteen and still in high school, but his training with the League of Assassins had put him years ahead when he was younger, and he had continued many of the mental exercises his mother had taught him to remain ahead.

Third, and by far the most important, was that he would get to see his angel Marinette in person for a whole month. They hadn’t been able to see each other much over winter break because of her family vacation, so he was planning on making up for it with as much time as possible now.

As he found out less than half a minute after processing his father’s declaration, the first two points were moot.

“The official story is that Tim is going to Paris for Wayne Enterprise’s business, and you are going along as a young adult excited to get a chance to see the world. I am attempting to coordinate with the local authorities for you to enter public school for the duration of your stay, but if that falls through, I will be expecting you to keep up with your Gotham Academy studies.” Bruce Wayne paced back and forth in front of his youngest son.

Damian sighed, leaning back into the couch. “And the actual reason?” At least he would get to see Marinette. Given that she could also make her way across the city in two minutes flat, he’d make the time no matter the mission.

“League business. The word on akumas got out, and quite a few people want to go rushing in.” Damian winced. Having some of the most emotionally repressed and powerful beings on Earth go sprinting headlong into a warzone overrun by a terrorist who weaponizes anger, rage, and guilt would go very badly. That was why, when Ladybug and Chat Noir had first accidentally attacked Robin two years ago, and upon realizing their mistake, had explained the situation to him, Batman and Wonder Woman had agreed to tell as few people as possible. Superman had been brought into the loop quickly, and Martian Manhunter figured it out almost immediately after. Red Robin discovered what was going on during one of his routine system upgrades in the Watchtower where he may or may not have been looking through some locked files and may or may not have immediately told all of his brothers and sisters. Dick told Kori, Diana told Hippolyta who probably told the rest of the Amazons, and Clark told Lois, who then told Jon, but as far as Batman could tell, no one else had told anyone. The more people who knew, the more likely someone with innate superpowers would go and get a rage-powered evil upgrade. It was better to keep it quiet, ish.

“Who spilled?”

“We’re not sure. It’s likely someone accidentally stumbled upon the reconnaissance notes, but there’s a chance someone pulled a Tim, and it’s also possible someone found out entirely outside of the League. Family or friends, maybe. Either way, people want us to go in.”

“So Tim and I are a cover.” It was definitely a statement, not a question. Bruce nodded anyway.

“Diana and I already prepared notes for you to “bring back,”” Bruce air-quoted. “You can add to them as you see fit, but it’s preferable that you don’t delete anything.”

Damian thought for a moment. It would, by any measure, be relatively easy to do pretend recon for a month. And he could find a way to work with his girlfriend and her team to make it seem even more realistic, as he actually rather enjoyed spending time with them. Making time for his angel just got quite a bit easier. “These notes, they don’t mention anything about Marinette, yes?”

“Nothing about Marinette.” Damian released the breath he had been unknowingly holding in. Bruce sat down on the couch next to him and patted his shoulder. “Nothing about any of their identities. For all intents and purposes, no one knows who these mysterious Parisian heroes are. They’re a separate superhero organization that the Justice League has to jurisdiction over, technically speaking.”

“Good. They’re just a couple of random no-name superheroes across an ocean,” Damian said, and then he snorted. “Although, I’m pretty sure if it came down to it, Team Miraculous could probably take the League in a fight. They have significantly more gods on their side.”

“Maybe. In either case, we are avoiding mentioning the Kwamis, if possible.”

“Right. Fewer details, less reason to panic.” Bruce nodded and sat down on the couch next to his son, and the two settled into a comfortable silence. In the eight years Damian had lived with his father, he had fit in with the hectic day to day life very well. He could keep up with his siblings easily, but with his father, he preferred the quiet calm.

After a minute or so, he broke the silence. “So, when do we leave?”

“Tonight. You fly out in five hours,” Bruce said. Damian glanced at his father. This was on very short notice. While Gotham definitely perceived Batman as being rather impulsive, both sides of Bruce Wayne much preferred to take things slow. Plans were planned, steps were enacted one by one in controlled situations, because the Bat always has control of the situation, and the results were carefully calculated and reliably accurate. Sending a recon mission, even a fake one, on such short notice for such a long term problem, was out of character. Unless he wanted Damian and Tim out of the house. But this was definitely more than that.

“That’s not much time, Father,” Damian replied. “This may be a, well, a fake mission, but that’s very short notice.” Bruce winced, and Damian knew he had struck the right chord. “Unless, of course, this has been in the works for some time now.”

“It has,” Bruce nodded sheepishly. “I’ve been planning on sending you and Tim for a week. Clark, Diana, and I have been negotiating, per say, with the rest of the League on how we will be going about this. Trust and morale are not doing so well right now.” He paused, but didn’t look at Damian. “I didn’t want to tell you until I had all the details.”

“Then I should get packing.” Damian stood up to make his way up to his room. “I won’t let you down, Father.” As he got to the door of the parlor, he felt a hand on his shoulder. He turned to his father.

“Thank you, Damian,” Bruce said. “Thank you.” Damian nodded, and left the room. 

Bruce released a sigh. Tim probably wouldn’t take the sudden scheduling so well.

[starcityhq]

WHAT: The Justice League and the Avengers officially combine to form The Avenging League of Justice - or The Avenging League for short. Batman and Captain America lead the first meeting to discuss strategies for combating NOVA. Egos clash and chaos ensues, but teams are set and there is finally a plan in motion.

WHO: Batman, Captain America, Wonder Woman, Superman, Iron Man, Falcon, Loki, Bucky, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Superboy, Supergirl, Flash, Spiderman, Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Booster Gold, Zatanna, Oracle, Batgirl, Stinger, Wiccan, Scarlet Witch, Nightwing, and Red Robin.

WHEN: Tuesday, March 20th, 2020.

BATMAN: The meeting took much longer to organize the Bruce would have liked. The latest events in Star City were unfortunate distractions, but after the riot it seemed everyone was finally prepared to commit to the union of their prospective teams. The Justice League reformed years ago, but the only consistent members were himself and Diana - until Clark’s return. Even though Bruce would never admit it, it was his arrival that put life back into the idea. It made it seem more than possible; now, it was necessary. He gave everyone time to be seated. Even though there were several meetings he had with Steve in the past in preparation for this, he was still unprepared for the amount of people that showed. All of them he knew, even if they knew little nothing more about him than his reputation and, more recently, his real name. “We are here because we have a common goal and a common enemy.” He skipped the pleasantries and the thank yous. He expressed his gratitude to everyone he asked here and saw little reason to do so a second time. There were more pressing things to discuss. “Alone we have been able to fight them on a smaller scale, but that is no longer enough. If we are going to eradicate NOVA’s influence from Star City and prevent further destruction, we need to unite. I assume you all understand that, or you would not be here. During this meeting we will share what we each know about NOVA, their organization, technology, as well as their connections to a higher government. All of us have pieces of the puzzle. If we’re going to beat them, we must know everything about them. They are not infallible.” He paused, frowning. “I do know that they are currently perfecting a device that will not only de-power mutants, but meta-humans as well. Kryptonians and other aliens will not be exempt from this.”

CAPTAIN AMERICA: Steve had put on the Cap suit for the first time since... well the last time he had put it on had been for himself. But this time, he had put it on for its true purpose. And it was as if he was home in a lot of ways. Maybe that was cheesy, as Bucky always accused him of being. But it was true. All that was missing was the weight of the shield at his back. He had left off his helmet--his identity hadn't been secret since 1941--and he wanted to be able to connect to the people around him, some of them friends, some of them former allies, and some of them people he had fought against but who had changed for the better. With the League assembled alongside the new Avengers, it was the kind of thing deep enough to give him real hope. "Batman is right," he said simply. "For a long time, we've been letting these guys go unchecked, and they've been hurting people. Not just you and me, but people who need us. The riots really brought that out hard, but Batman and I started discussing this long before that. As Avengers, we're no strangers to operating against the flow of what is expected in pursuit of the greater good. With all of us combined with the Justice League, we can see the loose threads to pull on to unravel this whole thing. To protect people. A man much smarter than me once said 'one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws', and we're in a unique position to see that injustice firsthand and to work together to bring this city back to a place where people can feel safe again." He glanced around at everyone at the table. "As Batman said, we all have the tools, but separate we're just people. Together, we're more powerful than anything they can throw at us. It's not gonna be easy, but we've all faced hard things before."

SUPERMAN: It was years too late, what they were doing. They’d all bowed out and Clark had championed it, like a fool, so the injustice they were speaking of correcting felt a little more like picking up the pieces that should’ve never fallen in the first place. He’d dealt with that feeling for awhile, though, and there was no more room for the guilt when he (they) had finally decided to move again. So he gave Bruce and Steve his full attention, suppressing the swell of gratitude and relief he felt at seeing them at the helm of what they were doing. On their own, none of them had been able to right the wrongs that had happened, but he had not a single doubt that all the people around that table were capable of pulling together to do it. “There are a lot of people outside of this room depending on us to get this right. I know we can do it.” He glanced around at his Justice League compatriots and all the new faces of the Avengers he hadn’t officially met. “That’s why we’re here. NOVA has had a lot of chances to hit first, and I think it’s time we took some of them away.”

BLACK WIDOW: Natasha didn't speak. She didn't need to. Seated between James and Clint, it was like coming back from a long trip as she watched Steve give one of his keystone inspirational speeches. Her green eyes flitted around the room, marking the rapt expressions on most of the faces. Ever so subtly, she moved to slip her fingers into Clint's. They had plans to take him to James' therapist. They'd get his memories unlocked, but she was sure he was probably feeling lost, even if she had filled him in about NOVA and he had been there for the riots. He belonged here. He was an Avenger, but she wondered what was going through his head. Self-doubt, likely. He didn't remember this part of his life. Still, hearing Steve speak for the first time was a sobering experience for her. She wondered what it was like to get a second first time.

ZATANNA: Zatanna did her nails while everyone sat and listened. The brush moved on its own, though she occasionally had to twitch a finger to keep it going. She knew why she was here, obviously, but at the same time, she knew nothing about NOVA, and all she really wanted to do was set the bastards on fire. Maybe have ants eat them from the inside out. This was what happened when she was left alone and allowed to get creative. Flicking a wave at Bruce, she added a flourish of bats into her nail polish just to amuse herself. She showed them off. It wasn't her fault she could never be serious about this sort of thing. She dealt with eldritch horrors and world ending nightmares on a fairly regular basis. This was just bureaucracy. And the inspirational speech was lovely, but really, what did it accomplish? This is why she didn't work in groups, they spent too much time talking and not enough time doing. "So, do we have any concrete ideas? Or is this just a planning committee?" Her leg swung over the other, her foot tapping restlessly, she was the picture of impatience. "None of you fought this when it started. Everyone just accepted it and retired. I had to go halfway around the world and rehab my image for years to get people to think of me as just a stage magician so I could still keep the universe from getting cut open by the next greedy idiot who decided power was worth a lot of people dying. And now we're all here to pump some pompoms and talk about our feelings? Spare me." Normally she was better behaved. She'd been spending too much time with cranky wizards. "Look, I know I'm the asshole here, I know we have to fix things now regardless of what already happened. Proceed." She pulled a rabbit out of her top hat and fed it treats from her pocket.

WICCAN: Billy was a little starstruck, just as he’d been the first time the Young Avengers had suddenly been actual Avengers and were taken to the mansion. It was marred slightly by the idea that his mother was dating Batman, shattering the illusion just a fraction, but it was easy to forget while sitting around that table. Still, he wasn’t there to be a fan. He was there to be an Avenger and, first and foremost, help people. Even if speaking after Superman made him want to throw up just a little. “Since this...is a problem that is a lot bigger than just us, I guess I have a question already.” He looked up toward the head of the table at Bruce and Steve, “Are we sharing the information we have with the X-Men?” Obviously they weren’t the Avengers and they weren’t the League, but Billy was a mutant on top of all the rest. So was everyone in his family. If it was pure radio silence on that front, that sat wrongly with him. “...Glad to be here, though,” he added. He glanced only briefly at Zatanna after she’d spoken to say, “And we didn’t all retire.” He’d never put away his suit, even if changing the world on his own was...frowned upon, to say the least.

ORACLE: "Taking on big corporations and entities of evil takes time, manpower, and strategy. I think plenty people, here and not here, tried to fight off NOVA, but you can only fight government-backed and covered-up abuse so much on your own. I think that's the point," Barbara leaned forward, not at all mad that Zatanna spoke up, if anything she was amused at her friend, with a ghost of a smirk on her face. She was also more than used to at least some of the people here making their opinions undeniably known, so she continues without hesitation. She certainly doesn't disagree that action is the priority here. "As far as their systems, I've determined timeframes I can personally have them exposed and vulnerable, both virtually and physically. I'm still working on being able to do these things undetected, but that will come soon enough. We have ways in, but we need coordination. I also think," Barbara nods to Billy, "that the X-Men will be able to help us here. Magneto may have taken responsibility, but he didn't single handedly evacuate all of NOVA's 'patients' from that place. They have experience here that's going to be invaluable, and we'd only be making ourselves weak by not attempting to reach out."

LOKI: Loki had never been a part of a team really. He had been working with the JLD at the request of the other magic users, though very few people knew about his role undercover as Johan the insane NOVA scientist. He was in it for the chaos, sure, and for the security of throwing in with the people who had absolutely pummeled him when he had tried to take over Midgard--through granted, the Mad Titan had made him insane enough to get him to do it. He had needed to be pummeled. But all that aside... this talk of justice was all new for him. What Zatanna said was right on the tip of his tongue, and mischief danced through his eyes before he clamped down on it. "I agree with our esteemed 'stage magician'," he said simply. "While all the talk of--" He switched into Steve for a moment--"injustice and saving people and what we can do together--" Back to Loki. "Is extremely moving... on Asgard when such a threat was present, we, too, gathered our strongest warriors. However, the Council usually decided that waging war was the right go ahead unless, of course, we couldn't win. But can't she wipe things from reality?" He said, nodding to Wanda. "Mightn't it be a little simpler to look to the example of the man in the metal suit? There cannot be riots if there is no NOVA left." He nodded to the one in blue with the flowing red cape. "He looks to be an impressive warrior alongside Sir Justice. Zatanna is right, what are the plans?" Why, for example, was he gathering information for them? He was happy to do it, but if the reason wasn't to more efficiently wage war... what was it. He was legitimately confused.

NIGHTWING: Dick knew firsthand how difficult it was to run a team. People seemed to assume that those who had the initiative to head up a group had all the answers, or should, and didn’t recognize that it was a collaborative effort. The fact that Bruce was willing to entertain others’ ideas and not tackle this on his own was a surprising development; in his opinion, it made it clear that things were a lot more dire than most people were willing to admit. Steve’s speech was moving and was meant to inspire them. While he understood others’ frustrations, it frustrated him that it was brushed aside just because neither of them could provide all the answers. “The point is to avoid more death and destruction,” he said. “Seems to me like waging war without fully understanding our enemy and their abilities would be a mistake. We’re all here to share what we know, so we can come up with a solid plan that limits casualties. If any one of you actually thought getting together and sharing our expertise, and we have a lot of it, is an actual waste of time, then the door’s over there.” He didn’t have a lot of patience for people complaining about things not getting things done and then… offering little in way of concrete or productive plans that WOULD get things done. “Babs is right. This is going to take a great deal of strategy if we’re going to get the upper hand, especially because this organization goes way beyond what we’re just seeing in Star City. There are other government agencies involved. It goes a lot higher up, and... I don't know if we know the extent of it yet.”

FLASH: For once in his entire life, Barry hadn't been late to something. He was worked up and wired – but relatively calm for him. They were all supposed to be a team again; and in the spirit of camaraderie he had attended the meeting in costume – but lowered his cowl once inside the conference room. “Not all of us retired, Z... I just, sort of disappeared for a while.” He fidgeted but moved on. “Barry Allen – by the way; or uh, The Flash. For those of you that I don't officially know.” He waved slightly. What was a secret identity anyway? Barry shot a look at the man – Loki – as he shifted his form and questioned about a direct course of action. “Nightwing is right.” He gestured at Dick. “Wiping something – someone, people – from reality isn't the answer... just like messing with time wasn't the answer for myself or anyone else here that has the ability to do so--” He couldn't help but eye Michael slightly. “Uh, information, right. So, the only real information I have regarding NOVA is from a conversation I had with their lieutenant, a Jihl Nabel. She played the role to a tee but the is bad blood between NOVA and the SCPD. She left an agent behind to monitor our forensics department – which I gotta say has been incredibly annoying dealing with – but I think there might be a distrust among NOVA that the local authorities will refuse to continue putting up with their presence or no longer do as they say without question.” Barry explained at length before settling back into his chair. “Sorry I don't have more information... splitting myself between forensics cases and Flash-work has left little spare time to actual tangle with these guys.”

HUMAN TORCH: Being at a round table with so many other people was a far cry from the Fantastic Four. Just Four. Johnny didn’t know half of who he was looking at, and his own personal agenda was coloring everything in his life right then. He wanted to know what the hell had happened to Peter, and he was more sure than ever that NOVA was behind whatever it was. The weird isolation they’d had to maintain mingled with his own lack of patience and just plain irritation and he’d been unable to drum up his usual sunny self for the meeting. “Preparation and strategy, sure. That’s why we’re sitting here. But if we don’t start moving right now, people are going to get killed, and I’d rather take a shot at something before that happens. So, no offense, but I want someone to point in a direction before we walk away from this table. That’s what we’re doing, right? Because NOVA is up to something sick. I’m not...sneaky special intelligence guy or scientist guy or whatever most of you sitting here are,” he glanced briefly toward Peter and swallowed, “but I don’t want to sit on my hands anymore.”

HAWKEYE: Hawkeye was sat between Nat and Spider-Man, probably looking too casual for such a Serious Gathering: his long legs kicked out in front of him and his right arm was slung over the corner of the back of his chair, an arrow twirling effortlessly between his fingertips, while his left hand rested near Nat. He at least wasn't wearing his bright purple uniform. Natasha had taken him to meet a nice kid named Shuri who had designed a whole new get up for him along with a new bow and quiver, and he had fallen a little bit in love with her for it. The bow was gorgeous all sleek lines and reinforced vibranium with a two-hundred-and-fifty pound draw weight. He might have cried when she handed it over. Just a little. His uniform was just as nice, sleek and black with gold accents. It wasn't until after he saw the completed design that he realised that he had subconsciously designed both armour and a sneak suit. Sitting there Clint wondered if this was the sort've thing he used to do all the time when he was an Avenger. It seemed like a really big group. Like, they were all actual superheroes, unlike Clint who was just a mix of innate talent and crazy amounts of practicing/honing his skills, couldn't they just...take care of any problem they ran into? He was pretty sure Tasha could take these NOVA people single-handedly, but then again, he was probably biased there. Feeling long fingers slipping in between his larger, calloused ones he glanced over at the redhead, unable to help the dopey looking grin on his face. Yeah, he was definitely biased there. Not that he could help it, he could definitely see why past-him had stuck around the Russian ex-assassin, and her stunning good looks were the least of it. Her competence frankly both terrified him and brutally turned him on. But, those weren't exactly the kind of thoughts he should probably be having in the middle of an Important Meeting. ­

His thumb idly circled against the side of Nat's hand as he listened to everyone give their opinions on the current situation, but then someone spoke up that he actually recognised. Leaning forwards a little he looked around Natasha and Bucky at Loki, grinning as he nodded at him. They'd gotten drinks a couple times since first running into each other, thankfully the other times hadn't been quite as existential as the first one, but it turned out that Loki actually as a good listener and spilling his guts to the other man had made Clint feel a little less anxious and insecure about his situation. Sitting back he listened to Loki going on and found himself nodding along, and then he was pointing at the Trickster with the arrow in his hand. "I agree with Loki."

BATGIRL: It would be a lie if Steph was all for the whole strategic thing. She felt itchy, eager to get her hands wrapped around some NOVA agent necks, especially after what happened to Commissioner Gordon. The old Steph might have jumped in and said that without a second thought, especially because Zatanna was clearly on the side of action. Sitting on her hands and thinking things through wasn’t exactly up her alley. “Pretty sure we’re all here ‘cause we’re not going to be sitting with our thumbs up our asses anymore.” She shrugged. “But I get that we have to smart about it, especially if all of you metahumans could have your power wiped out like that -“ She snapped her fingers. “I mean no offense, I’m sure a lot of you have good hand to hand combat training, but I don’t like our odds as much if that’s what we’re left with.” Yawning, she combed one hand through her thick hair. Her head felt hot underneath the Batgirl cowl. “Anyone got an actual suggestion for action? What about Jihl whoever? Is she anyone important to just some trumped up figurehead?” Picking at her nails, she shrugged. “As much as I want to wipe out NOVA, they need to pay for what they’ve done.”

SCARLET WITCH: Wanda felt her blood go cold as Loki brought up her power. She had wiped things from reality on a large scale before. She had murdered thousands, destroyed lives, put a rift between teams. The mere suggestion had her uneasy, her dark eyes lifting to the Asgardian. For the most part, she worked well with Loki, but she wasn't going to sit by and let him suggest carnage and use her as an example. "I suggest you defer to those of us who know how things are done on earth, Loki," she said. "And I'd think carefully before making reference to powers you don't understand." She let out a breath, shaking her head before continuing. "I am aware that there have already been some pushes for information, but the League and the Avengers don't take action and the lives of others into their own hands to push their agendas like my--like Magneto. But my son and Oracle are right. The X-Men will be invaluable in this fight and while an alliance the depth of ours may not be necessary, their insight is important here." Pausing, she subconsciously ran a hand over the intricate beadwork of the crown her father had made her back before all of this. "That said... I question the methods of some of their members, as they have questioned mine in the past." She hated to say that. Hated it so much, but her father was formerly an X-Man and he had close affiliations with them now. He was one of those who helped run District X. "Do we have plans to talk with them directly about where they stand after the attack on the detention center?" Her father had taken credit and said he acted alone, but her sister at the very least had been involved and she wouldn't be surprised if there were others. "I know that Cyclops is a reasonable man. Surely approaching him is a good call when we discuss taking down NOVA?"

BOOSTER GOLD: While Michael didn't have much information to give, he was just happy that the band was getting back together again - this time with even more opinionated people. The suggestion of just wiping NOVA out made him nervous, if only because he knew it would really screw with time things and a mighty disapproval would be wrought down upon him. He caught the tail end of Barry's glance that he'd thrown his way, only to return it with a look of his own. A string of silent email notifications showed up on the screen of his phone which he had hidden on his thigh, distracting him partly as he skimmed.

He'd known that Steve had managed to recruit a sizeable collection of people for the Avengers, but lumping in all the others had a lot of opinions in one room. He still wasn't entirely convinced that he belonged there among them for a whole variety of reasons, but he'd agreed to it and still believed in the overall necessity of someone being around to extend a hand when the world needed it. Even a cybernetic one. "You can't just rewrite the world every time something goes wrong in it, and you can't cut off one head and walk away thinking another one won't replace it." HYDRA had taught him that much. It was naive to think anything had a simple solution. They knew NOVA ran deeper than just the organization itself or a single person. "This has to be as much an infiltration as a fight."

RED ROBIN: Tim sat quietly. Honestly... he wished he gotten a little more sleep before coming. He was running out of coffee and this was a lot of words. Beside him, Steph was her typical, to-the-point self. Action first, overthinking later. Tim was over-thinking always, action at just the right moment. Now, he finally nodded before adding to what Babs had said. "I'm working on the tech side with Oracle," he said simply. "NOVA's well protected digitally, but not impossible." After all, at the tender age of thirteen, Tim had been capable of hacking the social security office and other big government agencies. "We'll have a lot of their structure nailed down before too long here." He had taken a break to find Jim's attempted murderer, but he was back on it now, glad to be working with his father again, his family. He was aware that they were all here in the assemblage. All except one. But it wasn't as if Jason would ever be a part of a team like this. He could imagine the smart ass bitchy response that would come out of someone even insinuating it. "The point is, we aren't doing nothing. At least... I'm not and Oracle isn't. Batman and Captain America either." Obviously. Those two were the ones who had made all this happen.

SPIDERMAN: Peter reached over to take a hold of one of Johnny's hands wordlessly, as if the gesture would help to soothe the brusque tone of his words. He was right, though - they needed to nip this in the bud sooner rather than later, before it could get any worse than this. They already had the idea that NOVA had been behind Peter's sudden loss of control. How, though? Even during a forced isolation, courtesy of an overprotective Tony Stark, he was coming up empty handed. The video footage he'd managed to find showed no signs of interference, no one performing a spell or injecting him with anything. He came up empty handed and it was frustrating as all hell, but he wasn't about to quit now, especially not when there were a lot of questions still left unanswered.

IRON MAN: This had to be the place. Funny that he expected a window or two, but he should have known better given the reputation of the Justice League. Tony didn’t know why they bothered with secrecy when it was only a matter of time before everyone knew who each and every one of them were. He entered the room without (well, maybe a little) fanfare, holding a Starbucks cup in one hand and with Steve’s shield on his arm. He pushed up his sunglasses and squinted at everyone. “First time my eyes have to adjust to the dark for a meeting, I have to say. You ever heard of natural light?” He eyed Bruce and smirked, tipping his cup in his direction. “Say no more.” Circling around the room, he found an empty chair and raised a brow at the computer screen. “Ohh, nice tech. Willing to bet that 10% of this room is looking at porn right now.” He looked at Steve and gestured to the shield, his tone shifting to one more serious for the first time since entering the room. “Figured you might need this. The thing’s gotten to be a real eyesore.”

CAPTAIN AMERICA: Steve had been listening to everyone, letting everyone speak and hearing everyone's opinions. It didn't seem too dire, but there were concerns that he and Bruce were going to need to address when things seemed to settle down a little. It was fine. They had anticipated those things. The conversations that Bruce and Steve had had before had already laid down groundwork for going to Scott, for dealing with integrating the X-Men where they could. Sue was just about to speak when an all too familiar voice cut through the room and Steve's eyes shot up. Tony. Tony had actually come... Steve had asked him to. They'd been talking on the phone since the day Tony had answered. After seven years of phone calls and messages. All of them ignored until the day Steve had really needed him. When Steve's life had felt like it was falling apart well and truly. He had left the SCPD, Nomad was behind him, there was no real Cap in front of him, Bucky had left him and there was just silence. And then he'd kept answering. Kept listening. Tony and he weren't the same. They hadn't talked as deeply on a mutual level, and he could tell that he'd have to do the work to get the other to open up to him. But he'd just... listened. Hadn't given advice, hadn't tried to placate Steve. There wasn't even any bias when he'd talked about Bucky and the pain and how lonely he'd felt in his own damn home. It had been surprising for Tony because Steve had never known him to be feelings guy. But on that level it had given Steve so much hope that every night, Tony had just sat on the other line, listening or even just pretending to. And now here he was. Because he belonged here. Tony Stark was an Avenger and would always be an Avenger, and tearing their team--their family--apart had been one of the hardest choices he'd ever made. But he'd done it. And he'd do it all over again if he had the same options in front of him. But Tony... Tony he might have handled differently. If he could have.

As the other approached him, Steve's chest ached and his stomach tightened. "Tony," he said quietly. "You came." It was perhaps too intimate a moment to experience in front of all of the assembled company, some of whom didn't know him well. But he couldn't help it. Steve had never been the type of person to hide how he was feeling and he never would be. Even Tony's stupid joke fell on deaf ears as he held out the Shield. The Shield that would feel so right on his arm. That belonged with him but had been given back to Tony because he deserved to reclaim it. Because Howard had given it to Steve and Steve had chosen to relinquish it after everything. It was a part of him, and letting Tony take it had been like giving up part of himself. Now, as it snapped into place again, like it had always been there, like it had just been waiting for Steve and Tony to remember where it belonged, where they belonged, Steve's baby blue eyes burned. Steve Rogers felt the weight of Captain America. He felt... whole. "We'll talk later," he said to the other. "But... I'm glad you came."

INVISIBLE WOMAN: Susan shot Peter an apologetic look, though there was hardly much to do. Instead, she was privy to a one man show when Tony showed up fashionably late; honestly, it was completely on brand for him, so she didn't find herself so much as batting as eyelid, but she did sink into her chair a little lower as she watched the situation between him and Steve unfold. She had to wonder, though, how far had NOVA gotten with their anti-power technology. If metahumans were still untouched, then maybe she'd be able to sneak in undetected. After all - she wasn't the Invisible Woman for nothing.

SUPERBOY: Jon felt like he didn't belong in there, before he left earth, he was a kid, so he didn't have much time to prepare, didn't have much experience, he felt like he didn't deserve to be in that room with those people that have been dealing with that life, with being a hero, for far long. He was practically hiding behind his dad, felt like he was a kid again, maybe going in there was a bad idea, "Maybe someone should shapeshift into an agent of Nova, is there any shapeshifters in here? It would be a good way to get more information," He knew it was a dangerous plan, but it was really the only thing he could think about, and he wanted to help. But he was hesitating, because like was mentioned, he was new to it all. He was self conscious, didn't want to sound stupid, as if he was a kid among the adults, as that was how he felt in a way, "Or maybe if there's any technology that can change my appearance, I could do it, I would be up for it," he wanted to do something, wanted to help, and he was willing to do anything to protect others, and to stop more people from getting hurt. 

STINGER: This right here was exactly what Cassie had dreamed of her whole life. Before her, there were a number of heroes she'd looked up to since she was a toddler. The Wonder Woman poster had hung on her bedroom wall for a solid decade before she'd been killed, and now here she was, right along with them. She wears her Stinger helmet proudly, aware that her boss was one of the men leading this meeting and, to her knowledge at least, definitely did not know an intern of his was here. Of course, she'd deal with that later. Cassie didn't let herself miss a word, and when Billy spoke, Stinger could be seen nodding emphatically beside him. When the suggestion of Wanda's powers came up, she clenched her fist as her side, torn between chiding the suggestion and defending Wanda. Still, she keeps quiet a few moments more, and has to stop herself from letting out a loud 'UNCLE TONY?!' as he walked in. Still, beneath her helmet, she's grinning as he walks in, and her eyes dart from Steve to Tony, relief her main thought for only a moment. "The X-Men should be here," she added simply, having no interest in repeating previous points other than to state her place, "and unless we want to take a stage with Magneto, we should avoid drastic and unplanned charges. No matter how much I'd love to get big, step on one of their facilities, and be done with it? Not gunna be that easy." she leans forward, her wings at her back shifting in her chair, "seems like the most obvious thing we need is information. It's real easy to eavesdrop when you're the size of a bug, just saying. I can leave mics and cameras in their ventilation if we can get around the security. It'll also give us a layout of where we hit. Which, brings up the question," Stinger turns her attention back to the two men leading,  "are there any thoughts of an actual plan, or should someone start writing suggestions down?"

BRUCE: As Bruce waited for everyone to say their piece, he was less than surprised by the responses he received from a good number of the participants. Some he knew well, like Zatanna, but her less than patient stance wasn’t unique. Action meant different things to different people. Few of them knew just how much action was being taken, under the radar, and if they did know, he wasn’t altogether convinced they would appreciate it. Knowing the opponent inside-out was integral. If they moved too quickly, they risked being surprised by the vast intel NOVA acquired over the years from their various connections. Having insiders in their organization certainly helped, but he also had to consider the possibility that NOVA was utilizing the exact same tactics. They had to be careful. He nodded wordlessly to Barbara’s input, frowning, but the atmosphere in the room darkened noticeably once the focus shifted to the X-Men. Loki’s suggestion made him raise a doubtful brow. It certainly warranted a response. “This is not Asgard and strength is not enough.” Wanda’s powers being tossed out as if they were free for exploitation made his eyes narrow and he shook his head. “As I said, the weapons they employ have the ability to render us powerless. We are not in the position to rely solely on powers of mutants, metahumans, or aliens. I understand that there are plenty of you who want to go in aggressively. Forcefully. I am telling you that it will not work. We will not win. Like all of you, I don’t want to see more people killed or hurt, but we must be smart about what we do next, or it will all be for nothing.”

He glanced at Steve and then at the others, frowning. “Cyclops is a close contact of mine and has been from the beginning. We are in constant communication. They will have a level of involvement in how we proceed, but the X-Men have always been their own entity. The invitation is there for them to join us, but I can’t say it will be accepted. Regardless, we can rely on them as allies. They do not condone the indiscriminate killing that happened at the NOVA facility. As of now, I can’t tell you what their roles will be. It is something we are currently discussing - but I do not need to tell you that their assistance will be valuable in unraveling NOVA’s operations.” He hesitated, his gaze briefly going to Wanda before he looked away again. “I understand some of you would, perhaps, side with Magneto. If that is the case, this might not be the place for you. As tempting as it is to think we can follow suit, NOVA is more prepared for that possibility now than ever before. Magneto has seen to that.”

It didn’t come natural to discuss his plans with others or tell what he knew. However, even he knew there was little choice now. “We need to understand their technology so we can disable it. I have possession of the inhibitor that targets mutants, but I need their new design. They have it well guarded. The Flash is right that the SCPD can no longer be used as a way to infiltrate NOVA. The two departments do not trust each other and that will not change. And Oracle is working day and night to break into NOVA's security systems, but she needs help. The encryption changes too often for her to maintain all she does without sleep. I need someone who is good with computers - or someone who can learn. Quickly. I am not willing to wait and see what the X-Men are willing to contribute. We need to start now. We have already started, though most of you may not know it.” Jon’s suggestion earned a rare smile and he nodded. “We already have someone who has successfully infiltrated NOVA, putting their own life at risk to better our intel. At present we have no need of another. It would only increase our risk of being discovered.” Shapeshifting and magic would do little if NOVA were successful in perfecting their newest power inhibitor. Bruce nodded at Bucky, his expression somber, “Exactly. And while it may look to many of you that we are sitting on our hands, nothing could be further from the truth. This will not be a fight with loud explosions. This organization is insidious. It is very connected with every part of Star City and its citizens, including us. Disabling their systems, cutting off their resources, and sabotaging their technology is how we win. We only move when they are at their most vulnerable."

The arrival of Tony Stark was unexpected and aggravating. Bruce waited until he took his seat. He was respectful enough not to interrupt Steve, either, and gave the two a moment before continuing as if there were no change. This time he addressed Cassie, approvingly. “We have planted devices in some of their facilities, but there are certain areas our informant does not yet have access to, specifically the lab where they are developing their newest technology. It is well guarded. You would be invaluable if you were able to take us inside. It is something we will discuss later.” Crossing his arms, his frown deepened as he looked over the crowd. “Our plan is to thoroughly understand an agency that is unlike any enemy we have ever faced. Brute force may destroy one building, or the ones we know of, but more agents will come. Their technology will survive. Their agenda will continue and be bolstered by any acts of violence. There will be a time for that, but this isn’t it. The agency needs to be exposed for what it is. Then, when we do make our move, there will not be more agents to take their place. It needs to be eradicated permanently, or the amount of people who suffer and die at their hand will only increase.” He paused. "But we are here to collaborate, so if anyone here has a better idea for an approach that will permanently rid Star City of NOVA, do not hesitate to share it."

CAPTAIN AMERICA: Steve looked at Loki, sighing before he moved to pinch at the bridge of his nose. "Wars aren't won with brute strength. I've fought several. I know how they work. Battles might be, but we aren't battling. We're at full-scale war with an enemy we don't understand. And we are taking steps. Scott Summers and I don't speak constantly, but he's a good man and he wants to protect his people as much as I do. We want people to be safe and we want NOVA gone, but they can't be mutually exclusive." He looked to his fellow leader before nodding in approval. "Batman is right. In this case, shock and awe will never work and they'll wipe out half our powers before we even get into the gate. Some of us might make it unaffected. Not all of us rely on powers. But with our numbers cut into less than half, where would we be?" Steve caught Bucky's eyes with a meaningful look, as if to say 'Please watch him. After all, he didn't care if Loki wanted to mock or belittle him. But he did care if he brought the meeting out of hand. As Bruce brought up tech, Steve looked pointedly at Tony. That was his bread and butter all day long. "We have a number of scientists and tech mavens in this city that I know would align with this cause. Red Robin and Oracle are working hard. Tony, could you put Stark resources on it too?" He looked to Bruce now, adding, "I wouldn't overlook the Wakandan embassy, by the way. Shuri isn't an Avenger, but she's been a loyal ally for a long time. They have tech in Wakanda that even surpasses what I've seen with Tony and Reed. It might be worth connecting the group of you to see if she can help."

Looking out to the assembled group, he finished with, "We want to eradicate this threat, but I again agree with Batman. We don't want to do it the way they expect us to. If we attack them head on like some of you suggest, we'll lose. It's a long game, and it's a hard one, but we saw what happened when Pete--Spider-Man attacked one of the NOVA agents. I don't believe that was his fault, but it escalated things." Steve's eyes found Bucky's again. "We don't know how it happened, or if NOVA was involved, but it's exactly the kind of thing Batman's talking about. A lot of you know that I've been on the side of punch first, questions later. I'll fully admit that. But it's not the answer here. We don't know what they have or what we're up against. We need your support in the long game. And we're asking for your trust in a lot of ways. I asked all of the Avengers personally to be here. You all agreed, so you must trust me, and I trust Batman and the Justice League. Trust like that, trust that we are all working towards the same goal, is gonna be imperative."

“If we’re getting insider information, the kind that can turn the public tide against NOVA, then we need to use it.” Clark didn’t ask for specifics. If Bruce or Steve had put someone inside NOVA, he had to trust that whatever information they produced would be legitimate. “We all saw at the riots that there’s still public support for NOVA, and more of it than any of us probably feel comfortable with. If we’re fighting a war, then we’re looking at more than one front, and the people are one of them. If we have something to erode their support, it needs to be disseminated, and we have contacts who can do it.” Him, namely, but he didn’t say so. He looked from his son beside him back up to Bruce at the head of the table. “Take it to Lois. We’ll be fighting twice as hard if there are still people convinced that NOVA are the good guys here.” The air of impatience around the table was palpable from some of the other people. He understood. In a way, he was with them. The long game that Bruce played and that they all had to play right then was frustrating, but their problem would be infinitely worse if they acted too soon and too rashly. “We have a lot of different strengths here, that I can see, and if this is going to work then we’ll play to all of them. But not at the same time.”

HAWKEYE: Clint was not built for meetings. There were way too many people in one room, all of whom had something to say. Clint, on the other hand, had nothing to say. He was a circus performer and a thief. This good guy shit and should they shouldn't they and rules nonsense was grating and more and more he was starting to feel closed in, like he didn't belong there, and that getting out was the best idea he ever had. If it hadn't been for Natasha's fingers tangled with his he would've been gone already, but she wanted him here and making her happy made him feel like less of a failure, so he wasn't going to run out. That didn't mean he had to keep listening though. Growing up a criminal circus meant Clint's legerdemain skills were very nearly flawless, and it wasn't too difficult for him to slip off one hearing aid while he was replacing the arrow he'd been playing with back in his quiver, and the other when he reached up to scratch at the closely shaved hair of his undercut. With both his aids out he couldn't hear anything, blissful silence wrapping around the archer. If, for some reason, someone was paying attention to him specifically there was a chance they'd catch the sleight of hand trick, but most of the table was looking at the caped brunet with the really nice chiseled jawline at the head of the table who was currently talking. There was a pretty damn good chance Natasha would notice since she was sitting right next to him, but he'd done his best to pick a moment when her attention was diverted. Reaching into a pocket of his uniform Clint let the aids drop from his palm as he pulled out a Peanut Butter & Chocolate Chip protein bar, unwrapped it with his teeth and one hand and then proceeded to take a bite.

FALCON: It was unfortunate that Sam didn't have much, if any, information to pass on to the rest of the team, but he was willing to help out wherever he was needed. This was a group effort if they were going to take this force down - it wasn't going to be easy, not by a long shot, but he trusted Steve. He'd followed him before, he'll do it again, even if they didn't necessarily have a concrete plan moving forward. Whoever their insider was, something needed to happen before things got worse. While Superman spoke (seriously, Superman), Sam took note of movement down his right. He shot Clint a look when he noticed he had a granola bar of some sort between his teeth. He had to press his lips together to keep from smiling too wide, but kept his attention on Superman instead, in the hopes that he could just ignore whatever it was that Clint was doing. Now really wasn't the time.

BLACK WIDOW: Natasha should have known that bringing Clint to this meeting was a mistake. But she had thought that he would want to be there because this was who they were. This was their family and even if Clint didn't remember that, he had expressed a desire to be with her for things. When she had come home from Moscow, he had seemed upset that she hadn't brought him. She knew he didn't know what was going on, but when they talked with Rachel, he was going to remember and, going forward, he was going to need this information. At least... she had thought so. And then she saw him take his hearing aids out. And just tune it all out like helping people didn't matter to him. Like trying to hear what was going on and understand or file questions away to ask her later wasn't important to him. Her stomach tightened and Natasha slipped her hand from his. Most people knew her to have a very level expression, but when her hand shot out to catch his face so he could see her clearly, the first look was just utterly devastated disappointment, and the second slipped that away like a mask went on and her eyes were cold as Siberia. Letting go of his face when she was sure he was looking at her, Natasha signed quickly. <<Go home, Clint. Just go. No point in being in a chair here if you don't care and if you don't want to be here. Go home and I'll be back after.>>

HAWKEYE: Clint was aware that slipping his aids and grabbing a snack wasn't exactly professional behaviour, but he'd at least been quiet about it, and now that he had put his arrow away and had nothing to fiddle with it was better to keep something in his hands, or he was going to start poking at the tablets in front of them and get really distracted in a way that would likely be more disruptive than his snack. There was a voice in the back of his mind suggesting he could try following along to what was being said and try to piece together the bigger picture, but that wasn't what he did. He might have been forty-eight physically, but without his memories and life experiences of the last twenty-five years he was basically a twenty-three year old carnie thief playing dress up. He was doing his best, for Natasha's sake, but, like most other things in life, he was pretty sure he was failing. The moment Natasha's hand slipped from his Clint already knew he fucked up. That knowledge was confirmed when his face was grabbed and turned in her direction and he saw her face. Aw, disappointment, no. Disappointment was even worse than if she'd gotten pissed at him. Disappointment took him straight back to being a kid hiding from a father's disappointment because it came along with a belt and fists. The rotten feeling settled in his stomach, Clint's lips turned down in a frown. Blue eyes watched her sign, and for a moment he considered insisting on staying, that he could give it another try and do it better. But this wasn't like mastering a new trick shot. He couldn't just do it over and over again until it was flawless. He didn't sign back, at least recognising that now was not the time to get into a discussion. Instead he just, as unobtrusively as possible, stood up, slipped between the chairs, and then was gone and out the door.

IRON MAN: Tony brushed off Steve’s words as if his presence were inconsequential and expected, even though he knew it was just the opposite. “I wanted to see Supes and the Big Scary Bat in person. Not to mention an actual goddess with a lasso.” He arched an eyebrow and nodded in the direction of the three. “Have to say I thought they’d be taller.” Steve’s offer to talk later was met with a dismissive nod and he rolled back and forth in his chair, his foot balanced on one of the table legs. The years he spent with the Avengers made him a better listener. Maybe it made him a better team player too, unless the idea was a bad one or could use some work, and he was quick to agree to Steve’s request for tech. Unlike the others, he didn’t know much about NOVA aside from what he’d seen at the riots. He was too distracted by other things that were going on. Pepper’s injury and Peter’s complete snap from reality took most of his attention these days. One of the main reasons he was here was because he hoped someone would have some damn insight on what happened at the protest. He watched some cell phone video a kid shot over and over again, but there was nothing he could pinpoint that should have set Pete off. Not that he could figure out, anyway, and it put him on edge.

It was news to him that the X-Men would want anything to do with whatever game plan they agreed on. Tony snorted softly. “So, you don’t have the X-Men fully on board yet. What happens if they start to see logic in Magneto’s ideas? Do you intend to trust them with all of this information if they aren’t technically working with us, if there even exists the possibility that they might do something not so Justice Avenging Leagueish with it?” He frowned, rubbing his mouth thoughtfully. “And if we’re going to send Stinger in and risk her safety inside an institute that has the power to eliminate her power, what then? What’s the contingency plan? What if she pops inside an air duct at the exact moment they’re testing their new inhibitor? Do we have an inhibitor for an inhibitor? Something to disrupt the frequencies? Can I get my hands on one of these things? I understand you just have one, but I’d like a good look at it.” Clint’s subtly went unnoticed by him at first, he was too caught up in the various possibilities and pitfalls of action, but when he realized, belatedly, what just happened, he couldn’t hold back a laugh. “Someone’s in the doghouse."

ZATANNA: Good lord, there were a lot of children here. She was used to that with Bruce, he seemed to have an affinity for finding damaged orphans and giving them the ability to punch their problems away. You'd think therapy would be cheaper, but hey, everyone did things differently. "You don't have to infiltrate to get more information on them. If you want a look at what they're doing and what they've got, I can do that, easy. I just need a mirror and ... don't worry about the rest, I'll deal with it." Handing Seymour, her sweet baby bunny, to Babs so she could sit up (she was a hand talker), she leaned forward on the table. "In terms of a plan, since brute force isn't an option, and I have to agree, even though setting everything on fire is very tempting, I think we need to separate this group into smaller groups. There's no way we're going to get shit done when 30 people have to sign off on it. Make an information team, a tech team, one who looks for human error, which is my specialty, and a team of people who don't have powers who can take over if any of us get inhibited. If everyone has a smaller goal, each piece comes together and forms a structure that holds the overall plan together. Like a spell." Leaning back, she grinned at Babs. "See, I can be helpful. Just cuz I'm an asshole doesn't mean I'm worthless." She spread her hands to show Bruce that she was trying and playing well with others. She also sent Loki a mental message that said "wanna play a game while the mortals argue over tech?"

STINGER: Cassie went from grinning under her helmet at Batman's approval, to heaving a sigh when Tony spoke and said her name. She doesn't even bother speaking at the moment, simply rolling her eyes dramatic enough to be seen with her helmet on, and drumming the tabletop with her fingers, suddenly remembering the stubbornness of the older Avengers. 

ORACLE: Barbara lets herself observe the mishmash of people, and can't help but wonder what they were in for. She lets out a soft 'oh' as the rabbit was placed in her lap, but she accepts, head tilting as she listened to her friend speak. Her face slides into an approving smirk. She chuckles just a little, "Sure Z, now be open to criticism, hmm?" she turns back to everyone after (gently) handing seymour back, "she's not wrong that smaller components will be easier. And Superman is right, we need to shift at least what some people think. If we have information that can do that, we should as soon as possible. It doesn't matter how much prep we do before we attack if no one likes us once we're done. Also, cutting public support means strangling their wallets." She turns to Tony Stark, eyes narrowing slightly, thoroughly unimpressed with his display so far, but ultimately she knows she has to work with him, "There are ways to disrupt the inhibitor, Magneto used a big ass EMP. Theoretically, we could replicate that. That also runs the risk of frying a lot of information we could use against them, so it's a work in progress," she finishes, giving him a nod, certainly not about to deny the help.

IRON MAN: Tony raised his eyebrows in response to Barbara. "There are ways to disrupt the X-Gene inhibitor, but no one has gotten their hands on this new, supposedly updated power inhibitor, isn't that right? Therefore, we don't know if it operates like its predecessor. NOVA strikes me as an agency that learns from its mistakes." He let his foot fall to the floor and sat up straighter in his chair. "Magneto used the EMP with the intention of destroying the facility. He was not hiding. We're talking about a reconnaissance mission, quite different, and an EMP attack wound announce our presence loud and clear. Any device Stinger manages to plant would be undoubtedly discovered - or, at the very least, they would know we compromised their security and we lose any chance of securing valuable intel. Or, as you rightly said, our own technology is damaged and rendered useless. Worst case scenario, they catch her." He paused. "And all that is if an EMP would even be effective against this.... new inhibitor, for lack of a better term. Inhibitor 2.0?" Shrugging, he took a drink of his coffee. "I don't know about you, but I don't risk lives over ifs. Before we send anyone in, we need to know exactly how it works - and if it works similarly to the X-Gene inhibitor, an EMP is not the solution. We can't just kill their technology and expect them not to notice. No, we need to block Stinger - and there's a very simple way we can accomplish that and protect our own equipment, without tipping off the Nazis. They'd never even know we were there. I'm talking about our own version of a faraday cage. A very tiny one."

WICCAN: “You can’t completely keep the X-Men in the dark,” Billy insisted at the mere implication. There were a dozen other things to respond to, but if he was going to advocate for something, he felt like that had to be the thing. The potential fallout of not doing it was too great, and the last thing they needed was the biggest gathering of mutants to somehow be against them right from the beginning. At least Bruce and Steve didn’t seem to be in line with Tony’s thinking, and he was a little bothered (but not surprised) by his mother leaning that way, too. Magneto’s involvement complicated everything, as always. That was all the more reason not to give him more ammunition. He raked his hand back through his hair. “What uh...what’s a faraday cage?” Should he know that? In a lot of ways, Billy was one of most powerful people in that room, but he was reminded constantly what his shortcomings were.

LOKI: Loki listened to the back and forth and felt himself beginning to fade in a lot of ways. He had said his piece, they had rejected it, and so he was content to just do what he had been doing. Though he had to laugh as several people brought up infiltration like it was some new concept he hadn’t implemented from his own creativity before he was ever officially an Avenger. “Infiltration. How novel. What an idea.” He smirked before sitting back. “But if you already have an inside man, I’m sure they’re simply waiting for the right time—and the perfect information—to accomplish what Lord Bulging Biceps—“ Loki gestured to Superman “—is saying we should do. Could you not charge said inside man with retrieving one of these precious inhibitors? Before blowing open the entire operation with the right words in the right ears?”

He was offering himself for more risk. He knew that. But he had just been promoted. And he was going to get those papers signed. He and Jihl Nabel were friendly—as friendly as one could be with a horrible creature of untold evil (he both respected her as a villain and was completely astounded by her)—and he was part of their science and development team already. “Since the typically Metal-suited imbecile seems so concerned with the girl’s safety, why divert more effort to adding an additional person, who might not understand the layout and the internal politics of the organization and would just be blindly looking around, and not simply use what you have?” He shook his head, pushing to his feet. Abruptly he teleported behind the girl in the helmet—that was her name, wasn’t it—and made a show of peering closer. “You’re quite thin, you know? Very little. How are you with hand to hand combat if you do get caught, like Stark says? You won’t have your powers, so all you’d have would be your natural Midgardian fortitude.” Even without his magic, Loki had trained with the his mother, the Valkyrie, and the Asgardian army for over a thousand years, his Jotun physiology and natural state outranked any Midgardian’s in stature, durability, and strength. They relied on powers, as did he, but he wouldn’t be much of a trickster if he only had one trick.

It seemed to him that the conversation was becoming a bit circular, and Loki was an expert tactician but only when he did have an equal seat at the table. He was under no illusions about that now. Well, he was always under illusions, but those were literal. Most of them didn’t trust him. And maybe they still wouldn’t even when it was revealed that he’d been a plant the entire time he’d been on Midgard, and he understood that Thanos had taken any and all credibility that he hadn’t lost for himself. So he had said his second piece and teleported back to his chair. Green eyes meet the Good Captain’s. “You didn’t ask me here personally, but I am at your disposal. I do hope you don’t waste me, but point me as you will.” He looked to Zatanna, an expression of amusement on his face. His fingers moved through the air subtly before the pen next to the redhead now playing with the rabbit turned into a large carrot. He smirked before replying mentally: What did you have in mind?

STINGER: The young blonde went from a facepalm to indignant when Tony and Oracle were going back and forth. She'd expected some protectiveness, but she figured they might get through maybe half a meeting before it started. It was Loki appearing behind her that made her stand, clenching her fist at her side and staring him down without any hesitation, but she lets him finish.  She didn't sit again even when Loki did, and her eyes turned, positively glaring at Tony "I wouldn't volunteer to go if I wasn't sure I could handle it. I've been one of the ones in the streets fighting the creeps, and you haven't seen what I can do yet," her eyes deliberately shift to Bruce now as she retakes her seat. The hand that's hidden under the table next to Billy is clenched, and if she didn't have her gloves on, her nails may have down a number on her palms. She echoes what Bruce said before, "we'll discuss later, including safeguards for crappy outcomes." she grows quiet again, silently fuming, but knowing any extreme outburst would just be taken as an excuse to further infantilize her. One thing she hadn't missed? The tightrope walk that young heroes always had to face while on a larger team.

IRON MAN: Tony stared at Loki with vague annoyance. “If that inside man were at all proficient, we would have it by now. I’m not sitting with my thumb in my ass waiting on him to drop it by at his convenience.” It was clear to him who the inside man was and he could think of no one more ill-suited than Loki, who was proving himself useless so far. “Coming from someone who can offer nothing productive to the conversation or offer their own solution, personal insults are the next best option.” He clicked his tongue. “Predictable, Poki. I’m disappointed in you. If you were paying any attention, you would realize your “concern” is misplaced and invalid. But I suppose I can’t fault you entirely - how old are you now? Oh, you don’t have to answer that. None of my business. I was just wondering if gods also decline with age. If so... well, I've been awfully insensitive. Please, someone pull up Wikipedia here for our friend so he can keep up with the conversation. And toss in a dictionary. Most of the words aren’t monosyllabic.” Tony winked at Loki, smirking. “That should keep you more occupied than a virgin in a strip club.” His expression softened when he looked at Cassie and he leaned across the table, his voice lowering and becoming uncharacteristically serious. “I know you can handle it, kid. I know exactly what you can handle. What I’m trying to do is give you the tools to get in there and get out undetected. No one in this room has the ability to evade a power inhibitor, aside from those of us without any power to start with. I’m not saying you shouldn’t go or that I don’t trust you to go, but I want all of the information first. I’d want that for anyone in this room."

Sitting back, he spread his hands and looked around the table. “Can we return to viable solutions? That seems to be what we’re interested in. Does anyone have access to the materials I’ll need to construct a faraday cage? Or… well, it should really be a pouch. That would be far more maneuverable.” At that point he recalled Billy’s question and shifted his gaze to him. “A faraday cage blocks electromagnetic fields, radiation and frequencies. It acts as a filter against those wavelengths and shields the interior of the cage. It also protects against EMPs. Whether or not this will be effective depends on this new power inhibitor, but it requires specific materials to construct. I don’t have them on hand, unfortunately. I can get them, but if anyone has them at the ready I’ll gladly take them off your hands. I’ll need… let’s see…” He tapped two fingers against his chin. “Shielding Fleece, make sure it’s HF+LF - oh, forget it. I’ll take care of the materials. The whole pouch thing more complicated, but better suited for this scenario."

FLASH: Barry listened intently to the arguments and pieces everyone had to say. When the conversation circled back to him, he opened his mouth – but closed it when the doors of the meeting room opened and someone else joined them. 

ROBIN: "Sorry, Flash, but this is important." Damian Wayne barged into the meeting area with a slight pant to his breath, collapsing his bo staff and stashing it on his utility belt. He been preoccupied with a little criminal apprehension that Bruce had sent him on – but it had taken him a little longer than expected when something interesting came up. Sure, Damian had radioed in to his father to let him know he was running late but he hadn't explained why. So the teen swept through the room, light dancing off his red and green kevlar. It was a moment before he finally lowered his hood. “I know I'm late, Batman.” He reported. “I thought this would be better to show everyone in person though.” He said bluntly before setting a small black camera onto the table in front of him. “I was in the process of dealing with Kite-Man like you asked when he mentioned having made cameras that got near the NOVA HQ. I took a moment to look and this...” He explained and gestured to the device he had brought in, “was captured by one of his cameras. It had an odd placement and when I found it – a very odd energy signature emanating from it.” Damian stated before finally eyeing the large gathering of mostly strangers he did not recognize. "Whatever it is, it isn't normal. You don't stash security cameras in awkward crevices where they can't really see people." He frowned and folded his arms before moving to take an actual seat at the first empty seat he could find - an empty seat; one so 'graciously' emptied by his Father's insistence on standing broodily. It was different, being a part of the 'Big Leagues' meetings instead of the younger teams for once. Damian wasn't sure whether or not he liked it - the amount of attention on the one speaking was intense.

HUMAN TORCH: “Smaller teams. That’s something. Not everybody is suited for every job, but at least the rest of us would know where we might come into place. It’s not like thirty people can be barging onto the scene to infiltrate and spy. If we’re just waiting our turn, at least we’d know who we were waiting with.” He returned the squeeze to Peter’s hand, trying to quell his own temper, because he was a hair away from snapping like Cassie had. The device suddenly laid on the table was a distraction, at least. Johnny could offer one thing about it immediately. “It’s producing heat. Like,” he leaned forward far enough to reach for the camera but didn’t actually touch it with his hand. He didn’t need to. “A lot of it, really fast, really contained.”

ZATANNA: "Look, I get that half of you are tech gods, but I don't really think the details of that are helpful right now. " Which wasn't just because Z had no idea what Tony was talking about. "You and Babs are now the heads of the tech team. You guys pick your squad like in gym class and go fight it out together about whose circuit board is bigger." She assumed large circuit boards were better but honestly had no clue. "And Loki is right, infiltration will be the most dangerous part. Sending in anyone who isn't absolutely prepared is stupid. I get that you're all young and invulnerable to the dangers of the world, but this shit is real. I've lost my magic before. You don't know what it's like to not have your power, it's like suddenly losing a limb. Either you train while inhibited and prove yourself, or the grownups get to keep you at home. It's not about who's smartest or has the shiniest suit, it's about who won't die if they only have a knife and their brain to work with. Bruce has to be in charge of infiltration and whatever he says, that's what we do." Z nodded at Bruce because, duh. Just as Barry was about to speak, probably too fast and technical for Z to understand, Damian almost literally popped in. He was babbling about a camera, which Johnny Storm (Z always remembered cute guys, especially ones who burst into flames) said was emanating heat. "Jesus, if it's hot, who knows what else it's putting out. Tcetorp sdleifecrof!" A glowing bubble went up around the thing. "That thing could have tracking stuff or be nuclear or have a fucking spell on it and you brought it here?" Staring at Damian like he was the dumbest person she'd ever seen on this planet of Earth, she slowly swivelled her chair to look at Bruce. "I didn't realize it was bring your kid to work day." She turned the computer mouse into a Damian doll and sent it flying through the air to Loki. "Anyone else wanna risk total exposure of our super secret attempts to overthrow an authoritarian regime? No?"

WONDER WOMAN: The atmosphere in the meeting room felt tense. Diana sat still, quiet, as she soaked in everyone's opinions on the matter at hand. While she had no intel to share, she did know where she was best suited and where her strengths laid. While she did remain silent for much of the conversation, looks and body language did not go amiss. She watched everyone closely; whatever it was that Bruce and Stinger had to discuss later on, she trusted them to know what they were talking about. She was a soldier, a warrior, through and through. A diplomat, first and foremost, but a spy? An infiltrator? She would leave that to Bruce. She trusted him enough for that. "Agreed," she nodded to Zatanna before glancing to her right at Bruce, "You are better suited in that department than most of us here. If you trust this inside man to deliver us results, then I will stand by it. But we need more information sooner than later; there will be worse to come than just riots. These people are worried, scared for their lives, and many still have not been able to recover from that destruction." Diana narrowed her eyes at the now contained device floating in the middle of the meeting room. "Why would a camera like that need to be hidden in such a way? Do you think it was there deliberately?" She asked, gaze now on Damian.

BATGIRL: Everyone around her might as well have been speaking a foreign language. She leaned in to get a better look at Damian’s camera he seemed so proud of, but it looked like a regular old camera to her. As much as she used to admire Zatanna, the tone she took with Damian made Steph bristle protectively. “Sure, training under Batman must mean he’s stupid enough not to check for tracking devices. Give him more credit than that. All you’ve done is order people around and feed a rabbit in your hat.” Steph sat with her arms crossed, frowning, and squirmed uncomfortably as she grew more and more aware of just how little she had to offer in the way of teams. Punch first and ask questions later was what she did. It was her thing. Pretty much her only thing. She started out at a disadvantage, but years of training made her hand to hand combat impressive (if she could say so herself), and now she couldn’t even use it? Sounded like some bullshit. Yeah, she got it, but it sucked to feel like a useless lump when she was supposed to be Batgirl. “So a tech team, a… spy/sleuthy team, a computer digital hackery team - or does that fall in the same category as tech? Actually that’d be more up your alley, Babs. Maybe you should head that up." Drumming her fingers on the table, she looked up at Bruce. "And during all this patrol is continuing as always, so we’d need a team for that, right? Can’t forget to watch the street while you guys go running around in faraway bags.”

SCARLET WITCH: Wanda watched the people around her as they reacted before feeling herself beginning to get frustrated at the antics. Shaking her head, she sat up, her dark eyes flashing. "I think the irreverence--" She glanced to Loki, Zatanna, and Tony, who she admired for their bluntness but felt herself getting irritated with in this large setting, "--isn't getting us anywhere, for one. I think it's safe to assume that Steve and Bruce won't be underusing anyone. If they didn't have a need for each of us, they wouldn't have requested our presence." Her expression softened as she looked at Johnny and Peter, Steph, and those who were simply trying to determine their place. "Steph is right. While we are making large moves in subtle ways, there are still atrocities going on every day. And there's danger all over the city. Those with more martial skill can certainly keep people protected on patrols and it's not a lesser job. It's just as important." Her gaze turned to her son now. "I don't think we're going to exclude them, bubbi," she told him, her love name for him slipping out without her realizing it. "None of us want that. Tony's saying that if we don't know what they believe and where they stand, that it's dangerous to expect them to react in any way. He's not wrong, but no one is going to keep them in the dark." And if they were, Wanda wouldn't be comfortable with it. Her attention turned outward. "I know Magneto is a risk. He always is." He always had to make everything more complicated with his black and white inability to realize that he didn't deserve to play god just because it was the fastest way to help or get his point across. "But I think that Bruce and Steve's decision to speak to Scott solidifies that the X-Men will be involved, and we can trust that information will be disseminated to them and exchanged between us."

She hoped that put that concern to rest, because they could keep dwelling on the same three points, but they would be here all night. Clint had already demonstrated that that wasn't going to work for some people. She glanced to Tony, "For your cage, perhaps you can talk to Shuri. I certainly don't think that we have anything like shielding fleece in our attic." She gave him a wry grin. Then Damian was barging in and there was a strange device and she swallowed before looking to Steve and Bruce. "Do you two think it's safe to say we've covered what we need to for the general group? As several people have pointed out, this isn't their expertise. I assume this object needs to be studied. I don't want to adjourn your meeting for you, but I think that, with this new discovery, we might do well to start to close it up?" Her expression to Bruce was gentle, supportive. She hoped he didn't see her question as disinterest or otherwise something to say that the meeting wasn't important anymore, but she wanted people to be able to crack into this new focal point and she trusted that new information would be shared by Bruce and Steve as they obtained it.

BOOSTER GOLD: "I'm down with keeping up patrol. I've got NOVA's patrol sched down tight for the north side of the city, so if anyone wants that, let me know. I can have my bro Skeets send it via email; he's got built in Wi-Fi and it's like, crazy fast." Even though he was a little disappointed that he couldn't offer much else, Michael was glad that things were happening. Finally. It felt good to be part of a team again, even if he was reduced to patrol. Still, he could fly, so it made sense he stick with that. Skeets might be a little smarter in the technology department, especially that of the twenty-first century, but Michael wasn't going to pretend to know anything about what they all were talking about. "But if you guys need me anywhere else, I'm cool with that, too. Just say the word, I'm there." He threw up a gesture, thumb and pinky outstretched and he shot a quick grin before he settled back into his seat with elbows on the table.(edited)

BUCKY: The whole display with Clint and the expression on Natasha’s face had him briefly distracted from all the rest. He was there for Steve, first and foremost, and to help where he could, but his attention was quickly pulled in other directions. Wordlessly, he reached with his right hand beneath the table and laid it against her knee, neither looking at her or acknowledging what had happened. A fucking protein bar. Really? He was sincerely, deeply trying to be sympathetic to what was not an unfamiliar situation to him, but it only went so far. For better or for worse, Loki and Tony’s back and forth quickly had everyone looking elsewhere, and the revelation of NOVA’s device brought something else yet again. “I can help with patrol, but we’ve got a crew on this side,” he gestured at himself and nodded vaguely toward Natasha, “with a few decades of espionage and intelligence, for what it’s worth. I’ll be a little more inconspicuous than it looks right now.” Shuri’s upgrade to provide temporary camouflage for the cybernetic arm would see to that. “But I’ve never seen anything like that,” he gestured toward the camera on the table.”

SUPERGIRL: Even though Kara was only listening, she watched everyone at the table. She paid close attention. Some seemed to have good ideas, but others were bent on complaining on the lack of ideas - a frustration she could understand, but also found hypocritical and counterproductive. She wasn't a new member of the Justice League. She saw firsthand how difficult it was to lead people who didn't really want to be told what to do, or thought they knew best, but then did nothing but complain. The name-calling and demeaning behavior was upsetting and unnecessary. Wanda's kindness was a breath of fresh air. Kara smiled at her, hands clasped underneath the desk, but then she turned her attention to Bucky. "I can help with the espionage. Robin said the cameras are hidden in strange spaces no one would normally look...  not easily found, and unless NOVA has found a way to make their walls impenetrable to me, I'll be able to see through them." It was certainly a different sort of espionage, but having X-Ray vision came in handy when you were trying to find people - or things. "And I can see the electromagnetic spectrum. Thermal imaging will help me find the cameras, or even the location of the inhibitors." She paused. "But if the new ones also depower Kryptonians... I don't know, but it is worth a try. Perhaps the range is small and I won't have to get close enough for it to affect me."

SPIDERMAN: While Peter understood why he was being benched, he didn’t have to like it, not when he could be doing some good that the city desperately needed; regardless of how its people currently felt about him. Though as tempting as it was to do more than just remote work (if they would even allow him that), it would be stupid to go against Steve's and Bruce’s call, especially since they still didn’t know what was wrong with him. Of course, that wasn’t going to stop him from opening his mouth and offering himself anyway — “I’ve worked my way around a few security systems before; if Oracle needs a hand with that, I can always help out remotely... If that’s an option?” Knowing how overprotective some of them were, his offer would likely be shot down, but he had to try anyway, right? If he was going to be stuck behind four walls, at least stick him in front of a computer.

SUPERBOY: Despite the fact that he didn't have a lot of experience with being an adult, he was a hero before he left Earth. He could be a kid, but he was still good at it, so when they talked about doing patrols, he without thinking twice, offered himself to help, "I would love to help with patrolling. I do that a lot already, so it would be nothing new to me," every day, he went out and flew around the city, looking for someone that he could help. He wished there was more that he could do to help, but unfortunately, that was the only thing that he could do. It was already something he supposed, and better than nothing.

STINGER: Though it was hidden behind her helmet, Cassie's face softened as Tony spoke. She'd talk to him later certainly, but for now, she wasn't exactly raring to drag too much more attention to her. And, truly, had her attention not been completely engrossed by whatever it is Robin had just brought in, she would have rounded on the cranky magician lady, but as it was, Stinger didn't really think about it as she stood, shrunk, and let her wings carry her over to the device on the table. She tried to see things from her small angle, even behind the forcefield. She looks up at Johnny, "Hot enough to where it would hurt me if I could get in?" she crouches on the table, no more than a few inches tall, trying to get a look, "once we make sure that it's not recording us at all, and once we make sure that hotness isn't like.... energy getting ready to explode, I'd love to take a look. Nice find. But, uh--" she turns back to Zatanna, "this forcefield would potentially protect against an explosion, right?" and, as she's talking, takes flight in her tiny form and moves ever so slightly further away.

BATMAN: Bruce stood silently as Steve spoke. Before the meeting they had time to outline what it would be about, but it was impossible to anticipate the response they would receive. Regardless, Bruce was well versed in the abilities of everyone present, even the Avengers he never met. What gave them leverage in this partnership was the variety of strengths and expertise they had at their disposal. The only thing standing in the way was ego - and there was far too much of it in the first ten minutes. He didn’t fault the group for not seeing the value in a long game. They waited long enough for a plan of action and now they were being told they would have to wait even longer. Unfortunately, there was no way around it. It was just not that simple. Handing out tasks was something he discussed with Steve before the start of the meeting. Separating everyone into specific groups that played to their strengths was the best strategy. It certainly had a far higher chance of success than a full frontal attack, which was what some were oddly fixated on. “You might find temporary satisfaction in action, lethal or otherwise, but if that were the solution then NOVA would have been destroyed a long time ago. Captain America and I both recognize the value of infiltration, from various angles, and we simply do not have the time - or the ability - without you. You are here because we need your help, but it is your choice whether or not to go forward.”

Public perception was a tactic Bruce was well acquainted with after years of being in the spotlight and using the media to distort his image. He inclined his head in Clark’s direction, indicating his agreement. “The Gazette’s expose on the detention centers was the first real step in that direction. The public is largely influenced by what NOVA wants them to see. But there is more than one way. In this day and age, public shaming has incredible influence. Secret recordings that discredit an agency would go viral. It can be just as effective as journalism. Those of you on patrol will also be in charge of that - but be careful.The expose was successful because it did not distort or exaggerate the facts. Out messages can have the same impact on our peers as both Miss Lane and Mr Kent have with the media.” Clint’s strange behavior and subsequent exit earned a brief glance in Steve’s direction. Bruce said nothing, but they would be discussing it later. Long ago, he made a point of trusting Steve to decide who should and shouldn’t join the Avengers. This was the first time Bruce actually questioned his judgment. Even though personalities like Tony’s were abrasive and obnoxious, Bruce still recognized the point he was making and it was one he agreed with. “No one will be going into any facility until we are prepared. That includes having contingency plans in place.”

Zatanna and Tony’s back and forth made him consider if they should have employed a raise your hand if you have something to say protocol. While he’d hoped everyone would act like reasonable adults, he was especially disappointed in Zatanna because of their history. Their shared past was a close one and he gave her a look that, while on the outside appeared stern, was also a silent request for respect - if not for the group, then the integrity of the meeting. She was better than this. “That is exactly it, but you will not be making the decision of who is on what team, Zatanna.” Despite his frustration, he couldn’t help but be a little amused. As Barbara and Tony argued over the technology, he focused on Billy’s concerns for the X-Men. “Rest assured, Cyclops will be kept well-informed.” Trust didn’t come easily to Bruce and he didn’t fully trust many people, but that was something separate. He did trust certain people for certain tasks, and he knew Scott would not sabotage their efforts or use the information in a way that would hurt the team. They were all on the same side. With any luck, he could encourage them to help.

Not that he was looking forward to adding more strong personalities to the already contentious group. Loki and Tony’s back and forth was giving him a headache and Damian’s interruption was a welcome respite from the bickering. While he’d been in communication with him through an earpiece, Bruce had been given no explanation as to why Damian was late or what had happened. Troubled, he listened to his explanation with a frown. “Where was this building, Robin?” While he appreciated Zatanna’s support, he held up a hand in response to her surprisingly abrasive words, then shook his head gently at Cassie’s suggestion and turned the camera over in his hand. “There is no need. The heat is intense, as you said -“ He nodded at Johnny’s assessment. “But it is residual. It is slowing down. Cooling.” Producing a small tool from his belt, he opened it back up and saw that Damian already disabled its tracking device. Just as he taught him. It wouldn’t have mattered. The room was protected from being tracked just like the Batcave, but he kept that information to himself. “I assume you scanned it for explosives.” Not that he felt he needed to ask. Damian was well-trained, or Bruce never would have trusted him to be out on his own. Still, he retrieved his personal scanner (equipped with various systems, including computed tomography) to do another deep scan. “Hm. No trace of explosives. We need to do more research to know for certain what is producing the heat.”

Prior to the start of the meeting, Steve and Bruce both agreed who would be best suited to what task. It was a difficult endeavor, but there were solid reasons behind their choices and it wasn’t up to debate. “We are all infiltrating. The difference is the approach. Oracle, Red Robin, Human Torch, and Spiderman, you will coordinate a digital attack on NOVA’s systems and gain access to their files. The firewalls are nothing like I’ve ever seen before.” In any other situation he would not have placed Johnny in that category, because he had other, valuable strengths, but someone would have to keep an eye on Peter after what happened at the riots. He was the best option. Bruce reluctantly handed the camera to Tony. “Iron Man and Black Panther will focus on deconstructing NOVA’s technology. A device or a suit that will shield the wearer from inhibitors, while avoiding detection, would be invaluable to future missions. Our first order of business is to retrieve the new power inhibitor so we can find out how it works. Bucky, Supergirl, Stinger, Flash, Invisible Woman, and Black Widow will do reconnaissance on NOVA’s labs and various locations and formute a plan of entry. The new inhibitor will likely be guarded. Falcon, Loki, Booster, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, Superman, Superboy, and Robin - you will be on the ground. Remember that part of your job is to discredit NOVA whenever you have the chance.

Record unnecessary force and hand it over to Oracle to distribute. It can’t be traced back to you. Be a powerful presence and be inspiring. There is a reason you are the group most visible to the public.” Of course, Clark would be doing much more with the Gazette, but Bruce was not going to divulge that. “Scarlet Witch, Wiccan, Zatanna, and Nightwing, your job is to locate all of NOVA’s hidden facilities so the reconnaissance team can get to work. Once you’ve done that, you will focus on the facilities that are detaining mutants. We already know there are more. After you assist the reconnaissance team you will go to District X and consult with Cyclops on how to proceed. I have no doubt he will be involved, or already has a plan in place. Offer your assistance." His expression and tone turned somber. "Scarlet Witch and Nightwing can prepare you for when the inhibitors get in your way. We face a real threat of mutants, metahumans, and aliens being stripped of their powers. Everyone needs to understand this and be prepared. Those of you who need to fine tune your hand to hand combat, Scarlet Witch and Nightwing are who to see.” They worked well with each other - and in this situation, that was vital. “I understand many of you are skilled in this area, but consider how much of that skill is reliant on strength and superhuman ability. Ask for help if you need it, or your pride will get someone killed.”

CAPTAIN AMERICA: Steve was watching his meeting, their meeting, start to fall apart. He knew how Tony was, he had anticipated how Loki was, but he didn't know Zatanna well. He didn't actually think she was trying to instigate, but he did think that it might come off that way. But there was nothing to be done about it now. What was said was said. Still... he had been waiting for this for such a long time. More than anything, Steve Rogers had wanted this meeting and he had seen all the potential it could hold. It was why he had barely let Bruce get the offer to work together and reform out of his mouth before he was agreeing. They were going to be amazing. All of them. He just needed them all to understand what they were doing had reason and rhyme for all of them. They were all essential. It was watching Clint of all people embarrass the Avengers, and embarrass Natasha that had Steve crestfallen. His expression reflected the redheaded assassin's utter disappointment as he watched Clint leave, knowing how that looked. He knew there were extenuating circumstances, but he also knew he was going to have to advocate for Clint and for the validity of his presence to Bruce now when Steve knew he was a good man and a great Avenger. He let out a slow breath, but didn't let his shoulders sag, even if he wanted to, but that expression of disappointment began to etch deeper as Tony was who he was and Loki was who he was, and Cassie seemed to get up in arms when no one was discrediting her. There were some who were focused and productive and wanted to be there. Steve could see them, but it was hard not to feel like the gaps between their teams were going to struggle to be bridged into a cohesive unit if they were picking at one another, protesting precautions and getting snippy about what they should be allowed to do, snapping at one another about nothing.

"Come on, guys," he finally said after Tony's second jibe at Loki, which thankfully wasn't followed up by a rebuttal. There was a distinct sigh in his voice as he did it, and he was about to say more when Robin burst in and set down another piece to this ridiculously intricate puzzle. At the very least, it would give them all something to focus on and get them back on track. Something tangible. He gave a gentle nod to Johnny, opening his mouth to say that they had that covered when Zatanna was suddenly speaking but then Diana was bringing it back to trust. The amorphous shifting of tones was hard to keep up with, so he simply waited his turn. Wanda beat him to addressing the concerns about the X-Men and seemingly putting them to sleep, which eliminated one more opposition. He held out a hand to Cassie to stop her. "Not yet, Stinger," he said to her firmly, not because she was a child or because he thought she was incapable or whatever had set her off. It was because they didn't know what that thing was and Zatanna's forcefield was keeping it contained and safe. "You'll get time to look at it when we figure out what the hell it is. Just..." He sighed again, grateful to Bruce for taking over and divvying up the roles they had discussed. It was helpful, he thought, to the people calling for action to know their tangible roles. And it showed that he and Bruce hadn't just been sitting by with nothing to discuss or say. It was their credibility and he hoped it convinced people to trust that he and Bruce did actually know what they were doing. He had led many of these people before and they had followed him. And even if most didn't know Bruce well, so many people knew Batman. He was undeniable. The support of Wonder Woman and Superman held sway too. He just needed them to trust.

So he listened to Bruce lay it all out before nodding. "Wanda can offer something else to those who are training that I think is an invaluable asset. These guy are developing ways to shut off our abilities. And I know that so many of us rely on those abilities. Without them, some of us feel powerless. But not having your abilities doesn't make you useless. Not a single person here is. So I would encourage that you all take advantage of trying to work with Nightwing for brush ups--we all can benefit from keeping in practice--but with Wanda using her powers to cancel yours out. Find where your weaknesses are without your powers and then train those muscles until they ache. She can show you what it will feel like to find yourself in a combat situation without anything but your body to help you. I don't know exactly how NOVA's inhibitors in this second batch are going to work--" though he was really hoping he didn't end up 5'4" with Scarlet Fever again, "--But while Tony and Shuri are working on ways to work around them even in the short term, we only have ourselves to rely on." He met the gaze of every single person in turn, just a brief flicker for some and a lingering look for others. Natasha, for her part, seemed shut off, her face blank. She was listening, he knew, but he worried what was going on behind that impassivity. It was something to be dealt with later. "We're strong even without the things that make us different from the rest of the world. We have special abilities, but we're people first. There are a hundred other mutants, metahumans, aliens, and all the rest in this city. We gathered you because, like Batman said, we all have a part to play. So let's put aside the 'me' and start working toward this goal as a cohesive unit."

SUPERMAN: Bruce, as always, had covered all conceivable fronts. That wasn’t surprising. If he didn’t believe him capable of doing that, Clark wouldn’t have been as insistent that the League needed to reform in the first place (with or without their new addition of Avengers). It had been tempting to get in the middle of the squabbling, which they didn’t have time for, but it ceased well enough on its own. He wasn’t there to play bouncer, but he was certainly willing to do it if necessary. Tony Stark seemed to know everything but how to exercise a modicum if respect, and Loki was much the same. Duly noted. Neither had made a stellar impression on him in their limited time on the floor. One glance at the device Damian had brought in let him know there were no explosives within. It wasn’t lead. He could see through the casing, but Zatanna and the others had leapt at it and saying so seemed futile. Besides, just because he could see into it didn’t mean he knew what he was looking at. “You’ll have me where you need me,” he affirmed once all the roles had been handed out. He’d end up where he wanted to be - a face people saw as familiar, someone they could count on, someone who could help. He still had so much lost ground to make up for.

BLACK WIDOW: Natasha was still so utterly embarrassed that she had to actually use her Red Room training not to belie how she was feeling. That slip in her expression, in front of many strangers had not been acceptable, and she had immediately compartmentalized it and put it away, her face completely impassive. James would know what she was doing, but the blood in her ears told her it wasn't working as well as it usually did. Clint was off, and his memories were gone... but she'd never remembered him being such a Мудак. Asshole. When he had saved her from the Red Room, they hadn't been so old. And he had been patient, gentle and good even when he had nothing contribute. When he didn't know what to say. He belonged on this team. He belonged fighting alongside them. And she had apparently been too optimistic to think that the very essence of being a good man would still be there under it all. It wasn't often that Natasha Romanoff miscalculated and she clamped down even harder to compensate. Her face was so blank that it might be unsettling, honestly, and her muscles were tense as she nodded with her assignment. The heat of James' hand registered thereafter and, if he were looking at her, he would see the barest twitch of the corner of her eye. As if she had been slapped or as if, were she anyone but Natasha, her eyes might be pooled with angry and embarrassed tears. "Understood," she replied, voice level and even in response to her assignment. She very nearly left it at that. But her green eyes flicked to Batman, and someone who knew the power of the barest shift in expression, she tensed her jaw visibly before adding, "Barton is compromised." She couldn't just say nothing, not with the look on Steve's face. But she wouldn't apologize or make excuses. "It will be dealt with." Her tone was direct, to the point. "It was my mistake."

ROBIN: Damian had remained seated in a scowling silence ever since arriving, letting everyone jump over the device he had brought forward. He shot a sharp glare in Zatanna's direction at her snide remark and curled his fists beneath his folded arms. “Better than a two-bit stage magician.” He remarked sharply, but was drawn from his thoughts as Bruce spoke up regarding the device. “Of course I checked it for tracking equipment and explosives. I'm not an amateur, Father...” He retorted with a frown. “The building was older...but Kite-Man seemed to think it was one of NOVA's headquarters for some reason when he explained what he was doing. It didn't really seem like somewhere a government agency would hideout though.”

As Bruce divided everyone onto their assigned teams, the teen couldn't help but crack a small smirk. “Patrol and street work? Good thing I'm always doing that anyway, isn't it?” He stated with a humph. He turned his attention momentarily to the woman 'Black Widow' and regarded her posture and stance. As a former assassin himself, he could discern the minute details in her demeanor. She was lethal, that much he could ascertain. He just wasn't sure how, or what connection she had to the man that had left their meeting. This meeting didn't seem like it had been going the greatest before he arrived.

Damian didn't know what to make of the circus show they had assembled. There was the usual crowd – Clark, Diana, Barry...his family, Zatanna and Michael. People he was familiar with. It was the other group of people he wasn't certain what to make of. This 'Captain America' seemed trustworthy enough, but the Scarlet Witch and Loki were questionable. His brow furrowed slightly at the sight of Peter Parker, having kept up with the riots extensively since they happened. Tony Stark had so much arrogance to him it was nauseating and he was glad that he wasn't going to have to be working with him or this 'Black Panther' on anything. He was equally glad though he hadn't been placed with Oracle and Tim. He was skilled with tech, but it was true he was better used on the streets. As for the others? He really didn't know what to make of them.

“The teams sound pretty solid, Father. Oracle can make sure everyone stays competent on her team...I'm sure the tech team is capable enough as well. Anything we can use against NOVA will be vital.. weapons especially, preferably throwable.” He eyed Tony before looking back at Bruce and settling back into the seat.

ZATANNA: Zatanna made an apologetic gesture in Wanda's direction. She would've sent up a flare that said, "I'm Sorry!" but she'd already been accused of being irreverent once, and it probably wouldn't help. This whole thing was just so not her bag. She didn't do tech, she didn't do groups, and she didn't do this many big personalities in one room. The truth was, she was tense. What if they all fucked up? What if she fucked up? She'd never been the weak link before. And she had all this ... she'd been angry for so long. Angry at Clark, angry at NOVA, angry at every government that had asked for her help and then turned around and claimed her very existence was a crime. It was a lot to process, so she just hadn't. She'd gone to Tokyo, toured Europe, returned to America in a shower of praise and demands for her performance, and parked herself in Star City to do - something, anything - but without a plan about exactly what that was. And now here they were, and she'd been so sure that SOMEONE would have a plan. Okay, more specifically, she'd been sure that Bruce would have a plan, and Clark would say yes and do it perfectly, Diana would have notes about the battle strategies, Barry would either babble or do something shocking and effective, and the others would all add their bits in and it would all just ... flow. But there were so many of them here, people she didn't know. And she'd spent so long away from these people. So here she was, being an asshole. Fuck. This was all Bruce's fault. If he hadn't looked at her like that, she wouldn't have gotten all introspective. "Never expected to, Wayne. I'm just the magical consultant."

Maybe she was a little harsh on Damian, but no one in this room seemed to appreciate the ways that magic could ruin their plans. and NOVA probably didn't use magic. Probably. Hopefully. "Laever ruoy sterces dna hsinab lla slleps nopu uoy!" Zatanna gathered glowing light within the forcefield before her spell was done. "I'm trying to be good, see? You know I'm shit at this stuff."

WICCAN: His concern about communication with the mutants was mostly quelled, and there wasn’t much he could do about it either way. With the way the teams were split up, he would have some say in it at least. Batman had said part of what they were doing was collaborating. Maybe it was naive of him to think that his presence and Wanda’s presence would be enough to ease his grandfather’s reaction (should there be one), but he hoped it was true. Either way, he said nothing more of it and only nodded his agreement with the assignment. He glanced sideways at his mother long enough to whisper, “Go team,” with a little spark of red, like a burst of tiny fireworks, from his fingertips.

ORACLE: In truth, Barbara tended to prefer working in smaller groups, especially when it came to strong personalities, but the need couldn't be ignored here. At the end of the day, everyone in this room wanted the same thing, and needed each other to achieve that. It's that thought that keeps her from responding harshly, "Theoretically, Stark. Nothing I say is going to happen without plenty of testing." she starts nodding slowly as she takes in his full idea and, quite suddenly, pulls her laptop out of her bag and sets it on her lap, beginning to compile research. It's her laptop that also hides a small smile at the outburst from the clearly younger hero. She had to resist calling out a wry been there, done that. She looks at Stark again over her glasses, about to say she was already on it, when Damian came in with a burst. She doesn't waste a moment, wheeling closer with the open laptop on her lap, "Nice, Robin," she smirks as she peers at the camera, eyes following it as it went. She shoots a look at Z, as well as at Steph, but her mind is working far too quickly about the camera. She manages to perk up, smile, and nod when she's mentioned. She'll take the help gladly, and she even makes a note to ask Steph if she wants to help more, later. She's also intrigued by the shrinking she saw, and her mind trailed off to the best resources to research Pym Particles. However, Bruce speaking caught her attention with a minute smile, satisfied that he brought the order they very clearly needed as a group. As he finished and others chimed in, she resolutely pressed a key that sent her contact to everyone.

"You should all have just recieved my secure contact. Some of you know Oracle, but for those that don't? Use me as a resource. I have eyes all over this city. If you're in a sticky situation and need an escape, I'll get you out. If you're outnumbered, I'll send backup. If you think there's even a remote possibility your tech may be compromised, better to be safe than sorry.  I'm your eyes and ears when you need to see and hear further than you physically can. Don't be cocky out there, use your resources." she pauses only long enough to sweep her eyes around, "You'll all get a device to communicate securely with the whole team within 48 hours. In the mean time, I'll route any contact needed. And finally-- like Batman said, don't underestimate the value of videos at the moment. We can do a lot of damage to their relationship with society before we ever touch them, if we're smart about it, so let's be smart."

LOKI: He hadn't really been trying to instigate anything, though that was naturally the way he tended to communicate in order to get any sort of recognition. Annoyance was better than being ignored when he was right. Loki had grown up on Asgard, always right but never loud enough about it, always trying to help but disregarded as Odin's second son and the one that would never chosen for king in spite of his rampant qualification and dedication to emulating the Allfather to the best of his ability. He had learned very quickly that the councilor in him got him next to nowhere. But the spirit of what he had said, in spite of its antagonism, was that that girl was young, small, and unsafe at NOVA, which no one would know better than he did considering he spent every day there watching the kinds of things that could be done to her. Hand to hand was precisely what needed to be worked on. Combat training. But his point, it seemed, was lost the moment that Stark elected start speaking again. "My concern matches yours." He shot back. "How dare I question the survivability of a Midgardian woman I don't know well? If you were listening, Stark, which I suspect not considering the only sound you seem to enjoy is your own voice--" Something he didn't fault Tony for, as the same could be said for Loki himself, "--I was within the realm of agreeing. But, once again, I lack the understanding as to why you would put in a second insider when you yourself just brought up the risks to this girl's person without your 'faraday cage'." How should he know what the whelp was capable of? He saw a girl with powers. Take them away, what did she have? He didn't know, which was why he had asked.

The boy's entrance distracted him and he looked down at the device. He had seen similar parts at NOVA, but he didn't know precisely what this device did. He had only been there six months so his clearance level wasn't quite high enough. Still, when it was announced that it gave of a significant amount of heat, Loki blanched, mind jumping over to his last poignant memories of heat. "How much heat...?" he asked the one who had assessed it. Loki could and did still function under and after heat torture, but it put everything under duress for him. Needless to say, it made him a little uneasy. Thankfully, the doll that landed in front of him was enough to distract him, though not without him smirking at Zatanna's use of magic. He hadn't needed incants since he was a child. Still, he shook his head; it was powerful enough, he thought. His attention turned to the doll and, with a wave of his hand, he had it looking like Stark and he very nearly considered blowing it up, but he was capable of acting like an adult, unlike the newly departed Barton, who hadn't been half so... spirited when Loki had worked with him eight years ago. Maybe he'd changed. What was interesting was the female spider's response. He remembered taunting her back then about love. He'd thought it was 'for children', according to her. Perhaps not. Ultimately, he elected to quiet himself. He had his job. He made his contributions and he'd solidify himself as invaluable the longer he risked himself to bring the right information forward. He would just have to wait until then to prove himself. He did hope the Scarlet Witch was right and the meeting would come to a close soon. As enthusiastic as some seemed to be, it was going to start to drag on. To Zatanna, he spoke mentally again: Exceedingly testy bunch, this group. Is it not?

IRON MAN: Holy hell, was he still talking? Tony was too transfixed on the device in his hands to pay any service to hot air and useless arguments. "Don't care," he said dismissively, giving a wave of two fingers. He did stop his inspection enough to check his phone and save Oracle as a quick dial. "Catchy name."

NIGHTWING: "Get it together," Dick snapped, and even though he wasn't directing the words at anyone specific, it was obvious which people he was addressing. "This is a team and we have to work like one, or this is just going to fall apart. You've all worked on teams before, this shouldn't be news to you." It angered him to hear heartfelt speeches from both Clark and Steve, men he admired, and then see them be met with disrespect. He knew how difficult it was to lead a team and how little appreciation was given for doing it. "We're on it," he said to Bruce, unable to help a grin at Billy's fireworks even though he only saw them out of the corner of his eye. "I'll probably be asking you to do that again later. We're in dire need of some positivity around here.”

FLASH: Finally there was some plans being set into motion. Barry listened quietly as the talk about the camera and teams went on and on. Once things started to be ironed out, he grinned to himself and was on his feet - zipping to and fro between different people and leaning on their shoulders as he spoke a little and was gone again to someone else. "I think these teams are great. It's just nice to finally have a group to rely on again - and it'll be nice to have Oracle in our ears once more. It's been kind of lonely out there." He grinned. He zipped to Damian for a quick hair-ruffle and 'Good job kid' before he was back in his seat and straightening himself. "Sorry, I'm good now. You know me, sitting too long gets me pent up." He remarked with a sheepish grin on his face. It was obvious where Wally got a lot of his quirks from when you looked at Barry's antics sometimes.

HUMAN TORCH: Johnny offered no more verbal feedback. He had absolutely no place on the team he’d been put on. What the hell was he going to be able to do to help with the tech side of anything? He sat back in his seat and ran his hand along his jaw, casting a brief, defeated look at his sister. Maybe the Avengers had been a mistake. If Reed and Ben were there...maybe it’d be different.

BATGIRL: Okay, so maybe being put on ground patrol made sense, especially because Steph had every version of social media that existed. She already had a few ideas of how to shame NOVA and start a flame campaign against them. She knew how those things worked. Still, it stung a little that she wasn't asked to help train anyone in martial arts when that was literally what she did for a living. There was no denying that Dick was more skilled, but it would have been nice if Bruce asked her to help out too. But she didn't say anything about it. Even now, she wasn't sure if Bruce fully respected her - and it was something she still, years later, desperately wanted. But it meant something that she was here. There was a reason he asked her to be part of this new Justice Avenging team, or whatever it was, and she was determined to prove that she could be trusted and relied upon. "Anything else we need to cover? Because I can't stop thinking about those doughnuts someone left on the table. And I call dibs on the one with the rainbow sprinkles."

SCARLET WITCH: Wanda hadn't even considered that they might want her to use her powers that way. She could fight, but even that training had come from Steve. Surely there were better martial fighters. But when Steve spoke, it clicked. Because Wanda could do that. And she knew what it was like to train without the use of her powers because Steve had taught her to do just that when she had first joined the Avengers. It had been invaluable. She nodded to Steve, her own power running over her palms before she looked at her son with a gentle smile before catching Kara looking at her and returning that smile as well. Her expression remained for a moment longer before she turned to look at Bruce once more, the barest hint of gratitude showing on her face. She was an Avenger because she'd always been an Avenger, but many of the other people in this room didn't know her and wouldn't understand the complexity of her history. They'd see her as a liability. And they might be right, but she worked constantly to overcome that. And she knew that Steve already trusted her. But for some reason, Bruce had extended it to her enough to care about her in spite of what she had done. She knew Bruce Wayne well enough to know that trust didn't come easily to him. Wanda cared about him deeply, but more than that... he could see past the things she'd done to not only care about her as a woman, but still as a hero as well. He trusted her enough to put her with his son to help on a tangible level which embraced her powers rather than fearing them. She was so sick of being feared or feeling used. It mattered to her. She could feel Bruce's youngest son's eyes on her, and she turned to meet them, unabashed in doing so. She didn't know that she trusted that child, but she didn't question his presence if Bruce was here. Still, she didn't like the look behind his eyes even if his face was mostly impassive, so she found herself looking away. "I'll be happy to help anyone who needs me," she agreed with Steve.

BOOSTER GOLD: Michael was ecstatic. He was put onto a team with both Wonder Woman and Superman - how much better could it get? (Well, adding Bats would have been that little cherry on top, but two out of three wasn't bad.) He shot Clark a few finger guns, already thinking about all the PR he'd get from being out on the streets; all that air time, not to mention Goldstar and his good looks, could be a valuable platform to help discredit NOVA. All he needed was Skeets to help hash out the details. If all else failed, people liked money? (And disappoint Superman? Okay, maybe not bribery.)

SPIDERMAN: It really surprised Peter to hear that they were sticking Johnny with him and the rest of the computer geeks. As much as he enjoyed spending practically all of his time with him, he knew that Johnny was better suited out in the city. He had a face everyone recognized and loved, so sticking him with patrol seemed to be the only logical choice; he wouldn't question it now, though, not when there had been so much negativity in the group to begin with. He'd rather not add more wood to the fire. Still, Peter was glad he was able to help where he could, even if it meant he was still stuck inside.

SUPERGIRL: The only person Kara knew on her team was Barry, because of their previous work with the Justice League, and she wondered what her new teammates would be like and what the breadth of their skills were. What she knew was limited, although Invisible Woman was pretty self explanatory, and Stinger already made it clear what she was capable of. It was exciting and a little intimidating to work with others she never even met before. She gave a little wave at Bucky and Black Widow since they were across from her, then smiled at Cassie and Susan at the other end of the table. She could introduce herself later.

INVISIBLE WOMAN: Susan felt for Johnny - she really did, and while there had to be a good reason as to why they'd stick him on that team, she wasn't going to dwell on it. Instead, she offered him a sympathetic look of her own before her eyes caught the wave that Supergirl threw in James and Natasha's direction. She returned the smile given, grateful that their group seemed to be made of capable, level-headed people (hopefully, none of them made her regret that assessment); there was a nervousness there, if only because it had been too long since she'd been a part of anything like this, but the excitement to be working with a team again seemed to trump that.

SUPERBOY: Despite the fact that the reason why they would be working was worrying, he was actually pretty excited about it. It would be his first mision as an adult, and would be nice to finally be taken seriously, differently from how things were before and how he was seen just as a kid. He was one, but he was not useless. "I don't think so? I think that was all," he nodded, "I definitely agree with you, I could use some of those donuts right now," he told Steph, he couldn't think about anything else, they already thought about everything, but since he was not used to it all, he could be missing something. Which he doubted he was, despite his lack of experience, everyone seemed to be ready to leave already. 

CAPTAIN AMERICA: With everything assigned and everyone seemingly amenable to their roles--no one had really protested, though Steve did regret one or two placements but understood their necessity--it seemed as if the meeting had ultimately been a success. There were ultimately people that he wanted to talk more with, and some people for whom he wanted contingencies put into place. But, for the most part, this was an active plan with active positions and jobs for everyone. He was going to be busy, finally, doing what he was meant to be doing alongside someone who was absolutely brilliant at what he did. Steve had only collaborated with Bruce a few times so far, but it seemed to fit. He trusted Bruce's tactical skills, and Bruce seemed to trust him enough to take what he said into consideration. And as a result, they were finally going to accomplish what they should have done years ago. Of everyone in this room, all of them but two had been opposed to the ban. Tony had been... complicated, but he was here now and Steve knew where his allegiances lie. He didn't know Clark well, but he knew that Superman had been in support. It had been mindboggling to him, but maybe one day he would ask about it. It didn't matter now, though. What did matter was that they were all here, joined for this one purpose. There was still work to be done. That much was clear from the way Natasha spoke. Steve looked to Bucky, but there was nothing to be done about it in the middle of this room. He'd talk to him about it later. But for now, it seemed like a good time to close it up.

Getting to his feet, Steve took in the shield on the table a genuine smile pulled at his lips. "I think we all know what we have to do. Batman and I will keep up with all the teams and make sure that information gets disseminated where it needs to go as we receive it. Feel free to reach out with suggestions, new developments, anything. But I just want to thank you all for trusting. We're taking back this city. Every last one of us. And when it comes time, all the work we're doing now is going to pay off." He looked around at the group before giving a final, firm nod. "So let's get to it."

[toughguywithbossygirlfriend]

WonderBat vs BatCat: BatCat romance is “Timeless”or “80 years old”. Is that really the Truth ? which one is older ?

Lately I had to read again some comments about BacCat being the better ship because of how “Old” a romance it was. But when did BatCat really start to take a real romantic turn compared to the first WonderBat references ? If we check out the old comics from “Batman #1″  back in 1940, is BatCat really the winner ? or is there another truth ? 

I definitively cannot ignore the chemistry DC tries to put into BatCat till the 80′s even if I’d prefer WonderBat. But to make that romance acceptable they had to change Catwoman into a Hero first, or at least an Anti-Hero. Strong changes similar to that time where Catwoman had been Brainwashed to become a Hero by Zatanna and the JL.

(The following is from DC Comics “JLA (1997)” - Issue 119)

MM:“A friend ?” - BM:“An Ally of sorts ...I thought she’d changed. but ... maybe it wasn’t her choice.”

Batman had his suspicions so there was never a lot of room for Love but with Selina on the “Good” side it was at least a possibility. This follows all the WonderBat stuff of the JLA’s “obsidian age” and “#90″ of course, so Batman’s heart is rather set on Diana then Selina. As a matter of fact it turns out Bats was right about Zatanna’s mind manipulation.

(The following is from DC Comics “Catwoman (2002)” - Issue 50)

Selina’s evolution from “Evil” to “Good”, isn’t a first and has been rebooted several times. The fact that it wasn’t her choice isn’t a first either. But how do we end up with the “belief” that BatCat is an “Old” story ? maybe even “80 years old” ?... Superman and Lois ? Yes no doubt... but Batman and Catwoman ? ... Not really

The “New 52″ with the disastrous SuperWonder pairing surely contributed to the illusion of a longer BatCat history. It just send 70 real years of “Lois and Clark” into the trash-bin just as it did to the slowly (but steadily growing) “Wonder woman/Batman” background romance. This helped to erase in the younger generation’s minds what had been slowly build up other several decades.

After the “New 52″ it wasn’t really possible to return to pre-flashpoint status ... DC had first to try to repair the damage done to the trinity and to the duo of the World’s Finest...  You don’t do

After the “New 52″, I guess DC surely considered that the best way to heal the Trinity’s awkwardness from the SuperWonder “Injustice smell” was to first avoid any relationship within the Trinity and later (as it didn’t work) to erase SuperWonder from continuity, so ... back to : Lois and Clark, Wonder Woman and Trevor, ... Batman and ? ... yeah who? ... Bats had a lot of love interests over the last 80 years ..

Selina was surely one of the numerous candidates and as long as they didn’t restart her “Evil” in DC Rebirth she could even become a good and “spicy” choice. So they didn’t ... this time she was “Good” from the start : In jail but actually taking responsibility for crimes she didn’t commit and facing lethal injection only to protect a friend. A real Hero, Selflessness and Compassion raised to Diana’s level. Better fighting abilities than Talia and the stubbornness needed to stand the ground in front of Batman. DC boosted Diana’s power level to match Superman’s (to fit the needs of “SuperWonder”) and changed her from a magically animated clay figure (”less than human” just like Deilan and thus dreaming to become human) into the daughter of Zeus (who doesn’t really have any reason to lower herself to human status). I think DC doesn’t really know how, or lacks the courage of, to power Diana down again into something more suitable for a human World (Batman’s World) without enraging a legion of hardcore Feminists who need her to be equal with “the most powerful male Hero”... Catwoman, on the other hand, has been given most of Diana’s qualities and switched from “Evil” to “Good”...

Tom King surely did a great job at helping to model Selina for that romance and showed a great skill at fooling the younger readers about BatCat’s real history by “hand picking” just the right pictures out of old comics ... an impressive Work.

For example in DC Rebirth’s Batman (2016) #44 you get the false impression Batman is taking care of Selina’s hurting ankle ...

While in the real comic, back in 1940, he was just removing the bandage to check out for a precious stolen necklace ... nothing romantic there.

But the next references were not more accurate either as you will see it ...

Every sentence is just copied ... but the real comic tried to picture Selina Kyle/Catwoman as having two very different personalities ... some kind of schizophrenic heavy mental illness revealed through a memory loss.

With this Issue we have already gone from 1940 to January 1951 and to consider any romance in these early comics you’d have to ignore all the sweet pet names used to describe Catwoman : the Arch-enemy, the Princess of Plunder, the Queen of Crime, Batman’s Feline Foe and so on ... Nonetheless this is the first “Evil” to “Good” switch I know of ... Batman’s romantic interest from that time was more Vicky Vale, than Selina.

In this other “Pick Up” from “Detective Comics #203″ (January 1954), Selina reverts from “Good” to “Evil” just after he warned her of the consequences of resuming her past criminal life

... and she didn’t need any “hit to the head” this time ... was she faking her “Goodness” ? or is she just ready for Arkam’s Asylum ? ...

The next one in Batman (2016)  #44 ? ... same deception again ...

As we can see, in the original comic, Batman answers Selina’s question even under the Torture with a “No” to both “Bride” and “Burglar” ... Selina was really a self delusional crazy chick back then, more like a female version of the Joker rather than a real romantic interest and it didn’t get any better in the following years.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Selina’s dominant stance in Batman #44 was a parallel to Diana’s Epic stance in Hiketeia ... of course you never really “dominate” Batman, just like he is never your “captive”, unless he wants you to believe you won.

Wonder Woman was always the perfect complement to Batman. “Wonder Woman was made to Protect the Innocent, and Batman to Punish the Guilty”. Without either of them there is No Justice. That’s why they work so well together ... So you just copy from Diana to Selina the things you can and worked for WonderBat.

Anyway no consistent BatCat until “Batman (1940) Issue 308″ during February 1979 ... a new evolution from “Evil” to “Good” starts with that Issue and a kiss in November 1979 ... but this time things are different, very different, Selina really wants too turn her back on her crime life ... the road is still long and bumpy but it is a start for a real romance. It is interesting to note that the current Rebirth “Wedding” arc with the Dark Knight enabled the starting of a new “Catwoman (2018)” series,just like the 80′s romance enabled Catwoman her own start. For a time the 80′s “Catwoman” series shared the “Batman(1940)” comic series with Bats. Later she got her own solo comic..

Now if you consider Batman and Wonder Woman’s first kiss of love:

Considering Wonder Woman is a rather serious Girl and that she already “Heroed” for several years side by side with Batman. If you consider that the owner of the Lasso of truth won’t lie if she says that she really did fall in love with Batman. Plus, two years later (1970) “Diana Prince” encountered billionaire “Bruce Wayne” and agreed to a Date with him ignoring he was Batman. Later again in 1978, Diana and Bruce know each others double identities and agree on a “Late night diner” ... We may consider that this kiss was the starting point of a complicated (secret identities and all) slowly growing romantic relationship between the two.

So a WonderBat romance started at least over a decade before any real BatCat romance.

I bet you didn't expect that ! ... You don’t have to believe me. Just check out the old comics for real ... and make your own opinion once you’ve read them.

Keep in mind that this doesn't really deny anything to the current Batman/Catwoman romance because DC Rebirth’s Selina Kyle is very different from the crazy Psycho of the old comics. Nonetheless, I wouldn’t use its Age as an Argument. You can surely find a lot of other reasons to love them. And of course, Bruce and Diana had both earlier Love interests, but this wasn’t the point of this Post.

This Post only goes thru the Batman (1940) series meaning i didn’t check out every comic series. But I had once a heated exchange about the “80 years old” theory with a Hardcore BatCat shipper whom I told to check out for himself the old comics. I know he checked out all 400 first “Batman” and “Detective Comics” Issues but he never got back to me to prove me wrong ... so I guess that he didn’t find anything useful either.

Hereafter you have a partial list of the early “Batman” comics Issues up to the time of  the WonderBat kiss in 1968, with the names of notable or recurring females found in them, often being Batman’s real love interests. I didn’t mention the Issues if they had no interesting females in it.

Issue#1: Catwoman tries to seduce and bribe him, doesn't work, she flees and he lets her ! ;

Issue#2: the crime Cat flees again;

Issue#3: Cat's usual M.O. kiss (first) to flee, she wishes she could hook up with Bats;

Issue#5:Quennie kisses Bats and dies

Issue#6:Linda Page

Issue#7:Linda Page

Issue#9:Linda Page

Issue#10:Cat roots for Bats, another kiss and flee ...

Issue#11:Canary kisses Bats and leaves

Issue#15:Bruce Wayne is in love with Linda Page but still "proposes" to the "Arch ennemy" Catwoman and gets "engaged" with her ... Now that's funny, so it would'nt be a first ? thinking about Batman(2016) #39-#40 ...this time its Jail for the Cat

Issue#22:Cat goes to Jail again after flirting with Alfred ...

Issue#26:Future Bruce Wayne and Lora Hall

Issue#35:Catwoman tries to gun down Bats

Issue#39:Cat fights Bats then saves him, tries to seduce and bribe him again but goes to jail again ... nothing new...

Issue#42:Cat goes to Jail again

Issue#45:Cat tries to kill Bats and goes to Jail

Issue#47: a disguised Cat gets to kiss Bats, then ... Jail

Issue#49:Vicky Vale

Issue#50:Vicky Vale

Issue#52:Vicky Vale

Issue#56: Vicky Vale

Issue#61: Vicky Vale

Issue#62: Cat becomes amnesic and fights on the good side.

Issue#64: Vicky Vale

Issue#65: Amnesic Selina remains good but no romance

Issue#69: Amnesic Selina has a Brother no romance

Issue#79: Vicky Vale and Batman fake an engagement/wedding

... No Cat ... But during "Detective Comics"#203" Cat turns evil again without any head injury ...

Issue#81: Vicky Vale

Issue#84: Cat goes to Jail again

Issue#85: Vicky Vale

Issue#87: Vicky Vale gets jealous over the kiss Batman shares with Magda Luvescu

Issue#92: Susie Smith

Issue#98: Vicky Vale

Issue#105: Kathy Kane as Batwoman will become a rather constant love interest in the following years (This one is neither lesbian nor Bruce Wayne's cousin and later her niece Betty is gonna be the first BatGirl and fall for Dick Grayson’ Robin)

Issue#110: Vicky Vale

Issue#111: Vicky Vale

Issue#115: Susie Smith ?

Issue#116: Kathy Kane

Issue#119: Kathy Kane and Vicky Vale

Issue#122: The Wedding of Kathy Kane and Bruce Wayne ... ;)

Issue#125: Kathy Kane

Issue#126: Kathy Kane

Issue#128: Kathy Kane

Issue#129: Kathy Kane

Issue#131: Kathy Kane and Bruce Wayne married again ... ;)

Issue#133: Kathy Kane

Issue#135: Kathy Kane and Bruce Wayne married again ... ;)

Issue#139: Kathy Kane with her niece Betty (as BatGirl)

Issue#140: Kathy Kane

Issue#141: Kathy Kane with her niece Betty (as BatGirl)

Issue#144: Betty (as BatGirl) and Robin ... with Bruce and Kathy.

Issue#145: Kathy Kane and Bruce Wayne married again ... ;)

Issue#147: Kathy Kane

Issue#150: Kathy Kane vs "Elise"

Issue#151: Kathy Kane

Issue#154: Kathy Kane with her niece Betty (as BatGirl)

Issue#157: Kathy Kane and Vicky Vale

Issue#159: Kathy Kane and Bruce Wayne married again ... ;)

Issue#162: Kathy Kane

Issue#163: Kathy Kane and Bruce Wayne married again ... ;)

Issue#165: Patricia Powell

Issue#166: Patricia Powell

Issue#168: Kaye Daye

Issue#176: Cat goes to Jail again

Issue#181 : Poison Ivy and Kaye Daye

Issue#183 : Poison Ivy

Issue#184 : Viola Lance but it was rather Robin’s Interest

Issue#185 : Vera Lovely but again Robin’ Love Interest

Issue#187 : Vicky Vale and “the Sparrow” as Joker’s ennemy ?

Issue#193 : Vicky Vale

Issue#194 : Kaye Daye

Issue#197 (Dec 1967) : Batgirl (Barbara Gordon) and Catwoman fight for Batman but Batgirl isn’t in love with Batman - Containing the “Bride or Burglar” reference used in Batman#44 - Selina thinks she is in love and that you can torture a man into loving her (like I said a crazy psycho)

Issue#198 (Jan-Feb 1968) : Catwoman (still a crazy psycho in love who thinks that hurting him and Robin is the best way to charm Batman ) and Batwoman (Kathy Kane)

1968 : Batman and Wonder Woman first kiss (that I know of) - During that Issue of “the Brave and the Bold”, both Wonder Woman and Batgirl fall in love with Batman. Diana kisses him but it won’t be really revealed, or denied, if Batman had feelings other than Friendship for either one of the Women. But Batman was always kind of good at hiding his feelings for Diana. Based on later evolutions of their relationship, we can only imagine this must have been the beginning of a longtime slow-burner between the two.

I leave it to you to discover the rest for yourself ...

[ladyloveandjustice]

so, now that i feel mildly better enough to write about it, I did indeed see Justice League.

It was...it was better than the Superman movies and BVS. And Suicide Squad. Definitely watchable. Not spectacular but there were only a few scenes where i was like “ugh this is taking too long”, the ending actually went by pretty quickly.

But did have a very forced patchwork feeling of two movies smashed together (which it was, considering the reshoots). I mean ya wanna talk about tone problems. On one hand we had somber dark and edgy BVS type stuff on the other hand it was incredibly cheesy! so cheesy! and I like cheesy! but this cheese kinda felt really forced- if you’re going cheesy you need to go the whole hog. own the shit out of it. this movie didn’t quite make it.

They definitely made an effort to revert Superman to Superman Classic. Apparently dying and coming back to life makes you like 1000% more cheerful everyone should try it. And I like what they were going for but I don’t think Henry Cavill can quite pull it off. yet. i mean maybe he’ll get used to it, it was a major tone shift for him. It doesn’t come off a genuine “aw shucks” thing like it should for Clark it felt...forced and a little condescending. Supergirl’s Superman, in contrast, was a lot more of a natural at it. But yeah, maybe he’ll get used to it. Points for trying.

the absolute worst part was the Superman is OUT OF CONTROL RAGEZOMBIE BACK FROM THE DEAD fight vs everyone else like it dragged so long and we all knew exactly how it would we know he’ll beat up everyone we know Bruce will get Lois and love will cure everything just got STOP WE DON’T NEED THIS JUST GET ON WITH THE MOVIE

actually the worst part was the villain, a very generic evil it was absolutely impossible to care about them fighting at all like it was even worse than Suicide Squad and that is saying a LOT

they...definitely tried for some Bruce/Diana sexual tension and i was definitely not here for it like oh god can you just not arbitrarily pair Diana up with one of them always can DC stop. 

speaking of Diana she was one of the better parts of the movie, as expected, her actress has a good presence and all that. 

of course the movie had to comment on how HOT she was ALL THE TIME though.  (oh god the bikini armor on some of the Amazons was the worst even worse that i expected)

I do like that Bruce seemed to recognize she should be the one leading the team because YEAH. GLAD YOU’RE ON TOP OF THAT CHUM. And her feeling uneasy about being in the spotlight because of survivor’s guilt over Steve and not wanting another death on her conscience that made...kinda sense i guess. Her arc of getting comfortable with her status as a leader and inspirational figure again after being a behind the scenes hero for so long was nice in some parts. The fact that Bruce of all people called her on it...not so much, but I’m glad the rest of the team was basically like “wow Bruce stfu” and he said sorry. (Cyborg’s “SO ANYWAY WHILE BATMAN WAS BEING AN ASSHOLE I WAS DOING ACTUAL IMPORTANT THINGS” comment was good, that’s my dude right there) (Barry’s “you know if she kills you, we’ll all be on her side” comment to Bruce- how I feel about every Bruce v Diana conflict ever. )

For Barry he was likeable...but he fell heavily into the overdone “funny-autistic-streotype-but-we’re-not-gonna-say-it” bit for me. like. am i out of line here? it was the whole “I don’t understand people what is brunch” speech that pushed it over for me, but idk. it was very weird, and like a lot of the movie, sometimes felt forced.

Cyborg! He was there! He was definitely 80s comic mega-angst “I HATE U DAD” Cyborg which made sense as the Accident had literally just happened and as the movie went on you kind of saw his personality emerge a little- complete with the “boo-yah” thrown out there for us cartoon fans. When a review complained about it i was like “how dare u for once that is something from these movies that caters directly to me” but wow it was delivered immediately after they defeated the bad guy very dramatically so i can see why it stood out to that reviewer so much.

 I did think the angle of him hearing weird languages in his head and not knowing what the fuck’s happening made the whole “AM I MAN OR MACHINE” angst a little more relevant. The whole “I’M NOT HUMAN” bit has a bit of a different context now than in the 80s with tech being more accepted, so that was probably needed.

He unfortunately wasn’t terribly memorable, though I did like the “we’re both accidents” bonding moment with Flash and how Diana immediately seemed to decide she was his big sis. 

Aquaman...probably shoulda been in it interacting with the others more? The whole vibe he had going could have really worked if they spent more time establishing it and him, but they didn’t, so it...once again...felt kinda forced. I did like that his Mom seems to be the key component to whatever his backstory is though. Well at least ONE male hero’s mom apparently gets to be the complicated heroic figure he has a weird relationship and doesn’t understand instead of like. just. dead.

There were a lot of parts of the movie that would have worked better if i hadn’t seen the movies preceding them. like Bruce’s whole “WE NEED CLARK” and “HE WAS SO IMPORTANT” and “HE WAS MORE HUMAN THAN ME” and “YES I THINK WE SHOULD BRING HIM BACK FROM THE DEAD WITH THIS THING WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW IT WORKS SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN” like...you didn’t even know him Bruce. you guys measured your dicks for twenty minutes and then teams up for two minutes you had no chance to get to know each other. and nah, he actually was equally as annoying and broody and cold as you! You’d know that if you’d ACTUALLY EVER TALKED. 

also the opening montage of “THE WORLD IS LOST NOW THAT SUPERMAN WAS DEAD” he was only around for TWO MOVIES guys, he spent MOST OF THOSE MOVIES IN WEIRD FIGHTS WITH ALIENS DESTROYING MAJOR CITIES like the previous movies really did not do anything to establish he was this essential to the world’s hope. In fact the entire last movie was about how the world didn’t really like him all that much.

(especially painful was those white guys yelling at the Muslim lady and that was supposed to be connected to Superman being dead somehow? BIGOTRY ONLY EXISTS BECAUSE SUPERMAN DIED GUYS. IF HE’S ALIVE BIGOTRY IS OVER.)

I think another thing that held the movie back was they basically had to establish half the team. Cyborg’s origin was actually plot relevant (but still didn’t feel fleshed out enough), but for Flash and Aquaman it was very casually thrown in our faces and yeah. Just felt messy.

anyway.

it could’ve been worse. it could’ve also been a lot better. i dunno guys. i really want DC to get their act together, and i know there were a lot of tragic issues with this one. but at this point their only solid offering has been Wonder Woman. It’s...looking grim.

[g-on-ef]

Why the bad things Happen to the good people

Fandom: Super Sons, DC Batman, DC Superman

Parings: Damijon, Birdflash, TimKon, JayRoy, BatCat, Clark/Lois, BluePulse 

Characters: Damian Wayne, Jon Kent, Wally West, Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Connor Kent, Jason Todd, Roy Harper, Bruce Wayne, Seline Kyle, Clark Kent, Lois Lane, Jaime Reyes, Bart West

{Inspired by Empire's song Good People. The words in italic are part of the song.

A/N: So this is a two part story that I wrote because I was bored and wanted to try something new, now fair warnings this story is rated E for graphic displays of violence, murdering, character death, and sexual content {that will be show in flashbacks in the next chapter}, I should also mention that this story will have mpreg just because I want it ^^ anywhore enjoy this story and let me know if I should update the second part tomorrow. Also to those who sent me prompts I plan on posting them tomorrow so be on the look out for that. Okay now on with the show ^^

Summary: Instead of Clark killing Lois and their baby he accidently kills Damian, as well as his unborn Granddaughter. Heartbroken and full of range Jon decides that the world no longer needs the Justice League instead it needs new heroes’ ones who aren't afraid to cross the line. Jason was right you can't defeat crime you can only control it. He and a new team take over and show the so call heroes how easy it is for the good guys to win when they are no longer playing by the rules

 Sometimes it's hard to pray, sometimes it's hard to keep your faith when it's always being tested, you try to stay strong, you continue believing that everything you've done was worth your sacrifice and continue living in a fantasy world, but reality keeps crashing in, finding ways to destroy the illusions that your heart has created to fool your mind making you see the world for what it really is, and then you realize, you are no longer a kid living in a fantasy dream, that the real world is full of dangers, and death is always taking something from you even when you work on the side of good and do good deeds the world still finds a way to punish you.

 Sometimes it's hard to stay grateful, you wanted to be a hero, but no ever told you the price you had to pay was the death of a love one. No one warned you of the consequences, the sacrifices you had to make. The people you would lose.

 It's painful, hurts so bad you put on a mask of ferocity to show the world show them that despite what it threw at you, you are still the man of steel, the strongest warrior to ever exist, after all you not only killed your grandfather who claimed to be the strongest man alive but you brought fear into the ones who once protected the Earth and were once known as Gods. The ones responsible for the death of your family, your soul's mate. Because you never want them to see you break, never want them to see that despite being the strongest man alive you're still a broken boy.

Crying for help. Begging the heavens to return what was once yours.

 Sometimes it's hard to breathe You rule the world with an iron fist, despite the fact that you feel like you are drowning in your thoughts, you feel like the darkness is trying to claw it's way up to drag you to the abyss and keep you as it's prisoner. You are tired of living with Demons because they are always inviting more and with Demons come the ghosts, the ones that have chained you to the past and refuse to set you free. Sometimes you don't want to be free because the demons, the ghosts, they may haunt your future but they still bring you memories of the past and you are okay with that.

It's hard to keep goin' He remembers, he'll always remember, the day that ruined his life but also changed it.

Jon remembers the message from his father, remembers the dreaded look that clouded his father's eyes as he told him that his father-his birth father-his was still alive.

He remembers how terrified he looked to not only know his biological father is alive but that he is an evil man who wants to destroy the earth.

He remembers it all.

After the meeting with both the Justice League and the Teen Titans Jon decided now was a good time to head back home, despite his father, Batman, and Wonder Woman wanting to speak to him, the young hybrid wanted to leave the Watchtower and go home.

Entering the coordinates to his safe house Jon was teleported back home before either of the big three could talk to him.

When he arrived the first thing he did was headed for his room, once inside he saw his beautiful husband sleeping in their bed.

Damian Wayne-Kent was everything Jon wanted and more. When they were younger the two hated each other hell Jon was certain that they would kill each other, if it weren't for their parents they probably would.

As the years passed on the two's mutual hate slowly turned to mutual respect to trusting one another, to a strong friendship to them falling in love and getting married and starting a family together.

The marriage was a secret, just like their relationship kept from everyone except their brothers. They were the only ones who knew about their relationship and marriage.

"You're being creepy,"

Jon was startled to hear the velvet sound of his husband, he watched as his angel got up from bed; he then grabbed a shirt that was on the floor and put it on.

If Jon had to guess it was his especially since it was a little longer than his body. Damian walked over to his beloved before he wrapped his arms around his neck. Jon responded by wrapping his own arms around Damian's waist and pulled him closer to his body. Enjoying this peaceful moment that they rarely had.

Both Jon and Damian jumped a little when they felt a little kick between them.

They pulled back a little making Jon laugh as he placed his hand on Damian's stomach.

"Looks like she's an active one, isn't she?"

Damian rolled his eyes fondly as he placed his own hands on top of Jon's.

"She's been keeping me up all night, not to mention she's always craving chicken!"

Jon had to bite his tongue to stop himself from laughing.

"She wants chicken?"

"Yes, and cheeseburgers, beef, tacos, and meat! She wants meat Kent! I'm just glad that she doesn't want pork,"

Jon chuckled a little, he knew his husband was 100% vegetarian and refused to eat pork since he was Arabic. Still he decided to less Damian's burden a little.

He bend down and kissed his belly before whispering,

"Hello Amiera, it's daddy. I hope you had a good day with Baba, now I know baba has weird eating habits," this earned him a smack from his husband making Jon laugh.

"But you need to try to be a little easy on him okay? He maybe a strong and powerful person but he's not use to carrying a half kryptonian baby so please be gentle with him,"

The kicking stopped making Jon look up to his angel who just laughed as he bend down and kissed Jon's forehead.

"You are such a sap,"

He then placed a hand on top of Jon’s who smiled softly at their joined hands.

"And you are gonna be a daddy's little girl,"

Jon laughed as he brought Damian’s hand to his lips and gave it a gentle kiss before his oceanic eyes met Damian’s emerald jewels.

"I love you, forever and always,"

"And way pass eternity,"

The two kissed one another enjoying their moment of peace before it all came crashing down.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*

 "Kill him, he's your enemy," Clark heard the whisper and he had to agree this man, this creature was going to kill Jon, Lois, everyone he cared about. He would not let that happen.

He heard a voice, telling him to stop, begging him not to, but he ignore it he kept attacking the enemy trying to defeat it. It wasn't until someone punched him hard in the jaw that he finally came to reality.

Clark shook his head to clear the fog that had cloud it, slowly the fog was lifting as he crashed down to reality looking up he saw in horror as his son cradled the battered body of his best friend's son.

He looked around him to see Bruce, Dick, Jason, Kon and Tim as well as the entire Justice League with the Teen Titans staring in horror as the youngest robin was clinging to life. His son, slowly cupping his cheek and whipping off the blood that was covering his face.

"Damian, oh my, you're gonna be fine okay, you’re gonna be fine," Jon said trying hard not to show weakness but finding it hard to do as he held onto his husband's body, as he moved his hands from his cheek to the top of his tummy, his heart broke when he felt a flat stomach. He felt his heart breaking as he could feel his husband’s bloody hand covering his own.

"Jo-Jon..."

"Yes?"

Damian tried to reach for his face with his free hand but it was taking all his strength to reach for him Jon grabbed his hand and placed it on his face he turned his face and kissed it, ignoring the blood that was on it. Trying his best to comfort his beloved.

"Our...our baby...I can't, can't feel our baby, where is my baby? Where is our baby," his voice cracked at the end, despite his heart rate slowing down Jon could hear it speeding up a little a sign of pure panic that Damian was feeling, Jon closed his eyes as tears fell from his eyes, becoming a part of Damian's own tears and mixing in with his blood.

"I'm sorry Dami, I'm so sorry, I couldn't protect you or our baby,"

Damian’s emerald green eyes met his blue ones a heartbreaking sob escaped his lips, he could feel himself slowly slipping away, this wasn’t supposed to happen, he wasn’t supposed to die again. He was supposed to live with Jon and their baby, he didn’t want to die, not now not like this. He didn’t want to leave Jon, he needed to stay, to at least have the chance to tell him how much he loved him and how he shouldn’t blame his father for what’s happened. Jon needed to know, needed to understand that he didn’t blame Clark, that he only hopped that Jon didn’t either.

"Jon I, I" whatever Damian was going to say will never be known to Jon because in that moment, that horrible heart breaking moment Damian Wayne-Kent was gone.

“Dami? Dami, please open your eyes please Damian don’t leave me!” the boy of steel shouted as he shook Damian’s corpse.

Jon listen carefully to Damian’s heartbeat, praying to every God out there that his angel was alive, that this was some cruel joke that the League was playing on him and Damian would open his eyes again and Jon will have the chance to see those jade eyes once again.

“Damian please, open your eyes please don’t leave me. I’ll do it, I’ll give up being Super-boy, I’ll, I’ll stop fighting crime and putting my life in danger anything you want but please, I’m begging you DON’T LEAVE ME!” Jon begged to Damian’s corpse.

It never happened, Damian’s eyes did not open, the League did nothing but watch as Jonathan Kent, son of Superman, boy of steel broke down and cried at the lost of not only his beloved Damian, but their daughter as well.

“Bruce…what…what did I do?” Clark stared as his little boy held onto the corpse of his best friend crying his poor heart out.

“The Joker, he…he drugged you, tried to get you to kill Lois and your daughter but…but Damian…he…he,”

The fog that clouded his mind was slowly disappearing clearing his head of any confusion that he was currently feeling, memories of past events creeped their way as pieces of the missing puzzle were slowly putting themselves together creating the image of Clark being poison and attacking Damian as he tried to defend Lois and Martha.

He saw how he fought Damian, attacking him; he remembers Damian’s pleas to stop to not attack his belly, which he didn’t understand why but when he said it Clark attacked it, showing his stomach no mercy.

Clark felt sick to his stomach as he watched his son and their friends trying to stop him but he was able to stop them, he sees his son trying to get to Damian but Clark stops him by freezing him, he sees it all, his body attacking everything and anything that was protecting Damian it wasn’t until his boy punched him with brass knuckles that contain Kryptonite that he finally stopped attacking Damian. But it was too late, Damian Wayne was already clinging to life trying hard not to fall into Death’s embrace, for the second time in his life.

“Oh my God Bruce, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to…I…I,”

Bruce didn’t know what to say, he wanted to be mad, he wanted to yell and hurt Clark in any way but he didn’t, he couldn’t. Damian died protecting Lois and Martha, he gave his life protecting Jon’s mother and little sister, Damian was willing to do anything to protect them. Even at the cost of his own life.

Yes it broke his heart and crushed his spirit to lose his son but he had to remember that Damian was a hero, willing to sacrifice anything and everything for those he cared about.

“It’s okay Clark Damian gave his life to protect your family, I know that Damian wouldn’t want you to blame yourself, that he-“

“Don’t,” Jon growled as he continued to hold onto the body of his dead husband his hand resting on top of his once round belly, where his little princess once rested in.

“What?” Bruce asked looking at the son of Superman.

“Don’t you dare speak his name!” Jon yelled as he glared at not only Batman and Superman but the entire Justice League as well.

How could Bruce be so calm about this? Clark killed Damian and instead of being pissed he was calm? Did he not care for Damian? Did he not care that his own flesh and blood was dead?

Jon mentally slapped himself, of course Bruce didn’t care, if he did he would feel the same anger that he was feeling, but who was he fooling? Bruce was never a father to Damian, Dick was Damian’s father, Dick was the one who was there for Damian when he needed him. Glaring at Bruce the boy of steel said,

“You never cared about him! He was nothing but a nocuous to you! You have no right to say what Damian would want or wouldn’t want! You never even gave a damn about him so SHUT THE FUCK UP! And keep Damian’s name out of your mouth.

“Jon don’t-“

“And you,”

Jon glared at the man he once worshipped, the one he idolized and wished he grew up to be like him; a hero, a father, a loving husband. Now Jon wanted nothing more than to end his life.

“You killed him, you killed my HUSBAND AND MY DAUGHTER!”

“I did what?” Clark asked praying to God that his misunderstood his son, that what Jon said was a case of a misunderstanding and he was just hearing things, that he was not only responsible for the death of Damian who was Jon’s husband-which he had no knowledge of-but the death of his grandchild.

“You killed my family, you…you…MURDER!”

In a split-second Jon was on top of his so call father and punching him as hard as he could. Clark could easily push him off hell he could have easily stop his son’s attack but didn’t because it wasn’t Jon hitting him that was breaking his heart and stopping him from defending himself but the words that he threw at him that were cutting deeper than any knife could and hurting him more than any physical attack ever could.

“Murder! You killed the love of my life! My husband! MY DAUGHTER! You took away my family! Robbed them of their lives! Rot in hell you piece of shit! I hate you. I. Hate. You!”

The boy of steel continue to attack his father showing him no mercy, he wanted him to hurt, to feel the pain and suffering that Jon was currently feeling.

Damian…his beloved was gone, and so was their baby; the only reminder he had left of Damian, both gone

Jon was pulled off his murderous father by Kon and Jason, despite being strong enough to break from their hold on him he chose not to, instead he glared at his father, Clark had never seen such hatred from anyone. None of his enemies have ever gave him such a dark and murderous look at least not the one that made him fear for his life.

Jon shrugged off Kon’s and Jason’s hold as he went over to Damian’s body, he picked his husband’s body as he turned to face not only his father but his mother and little sister.

“Your dead to me Super-Man,” Jon took to the sky ignoring the cries of Batman telling him to bring back Damian.

[wittypenguin]

Glass (2019)

I’ve delayed writing this review from last week because I wanted to have a second look at it. Originally I had a long paragraph explaining about how I was excited to see the final film in the ‘Eastrail 177 Trilogy’ by director M. Night Shyamalan, as well as getting more of Samuel L Jackson’s character, Elijah Price. As much as James McAvoy’s performance is phenomenal to see, the character is more predictable: Kevin Michael Crumb will destroy everything in his path as ‘The Beast.’ On the other hand, ‘Mr Glass’ will not only accomplish something you thought improbable, he’ll do so before you had even thought of it in the first place. This sort of evil is far more fascinating than savage destruction.

Anyway, that paragraph — though mostly reconstructed above — is gone, and my initial enthusiasm for the events in the film have also been dampened somewhat by both time and listening to this episode of Pop Culture Happy Hour, all of which has lead to me reconsidering some salient aspects of the plot and themes of the film, thus a second viewing.

In Split, we have Claire using her own experience to save others, whereas in this film we have all the main characters experienced with each other (for the most part), so less of any sort of reveal is inherently possible. That said, there’s a light touch when updating some of the characters’ stories — eg: Clair’s living situation, as well as the Dunn family — but others are bashed over the head until you want to yell for them to stop. References to scenes in the other two films — or just straight-up footage from them — are made too much of. I see that reminders are sometimes necessary, can be helpful even, but there’s a majority here that I question the usefulness of.

The facility in which much of the action takes place is a hospital with a specialty of mental health issues. It’s apparently an influence of One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, but the original Ken Kesey novel was published in 1962, the play débuted the next year, and the film was released in 1975. Even measuring from the film, psychiatric theory and medicine have progressed significantly in the intervening 44 years, as has societal understanding of mental health issues. Sure, these characters do not have simple issues, but surely we can have these three in something which wasn’t once described as a ‘loony bin,’ can’t we?

For sheer ‘hey, why not, it’ll make a great story,’ it’s tough to make sense of all of the various external characters arriving at the facility near the end. Sure, Dr Fletcher is coming to work, and maybe Claire is there to aid in the rehabilitation of Kevin, but the simultaneous arrival of Elijah’s mother’s as well as Joseph makes no sense. Unless Elijah has arranged all of this, but we neither see him do so, nor is there a discussion from the others that he has. I just couldn’t get past the illogic of it.

Spencer Treat Clark as ‘Joseph Dunn’ — — — —

There’s a wonderful scene with Joseph Dunn (played once more by Spencer Treat Clark) comes in to explain to Dr Fletcher about who and what his father really is. Her methodical deconstruction of his argument regarding why David “Overseer” Dunn should be released is hilarious. It certainly outlines both how insane the claims are about his father’s abilities, as well as how patently insane he sounds trying to argue that they are not true. Because we buy the reality of the film, the unreality of his argument is nuts, while at the same time, the reality of the film is nuts. This is further reinforced by Dr Fletcher’s summation late in the film of the three archetypes meeting in this story. Thus, we are watching something fully aware of its own unlikely nature.

Additionally, having the same person playing Joseph Dunn now as played him in the original film of 2000 is awesome!

Claire’s sudden feeling that the person who attacked and nearly killed her in Split now being, I dunno, ‘well meaning’ is something which I just do not get. I doin’t think there’s any textual justification for it; although the notion of ‘it’s not him, it’s the sickness’ might work, but isn’t invoked. The only suggestion of one is that she may feel sympathy for Kevin’s relationship with his mother and sees a parallel to her own experience, which isn’t nearly enough to justify what’s happened to her view (also while we’re at it WHY IS SHE STILL WEARING THAT ZOO JACKET?!). It is integral to make the rest of her character’s involvement in the denouement of the story work. For example: when she first arrives at the facility, she asks ‘would it be alright to see them,’ and is quite correctly told ‘no. You’re the victim.’ Then we see her being led into the secure portion of the building, completely contradicting every logical thing in the world of psychiatric medicine. Granted, if we didn’t see that, we wouldn’t have much of a movie, either, but the point here is that the world being constructed needs to justify why the rules are being altered from something sensible, and that doesn’t happen. Mr Shyamalan disagrees me, obviously, and I respect his decision, as I would probably do the same thing in his place; it makes things more interesting. She does this again late in the film, in an attempt to save some SWAT Team members from harm, and it still doesn’t make sense that she’s an advocate for her own attacker.

I am the questionable cloud in David’s MRI — Sarah Paulson as ‘Dr Fletcher’ — — — —

I originally mistook Sarah Paulson for Nicole Kidman doing a role with her credit hidden as much as possible so that people didn’t foresee her character as involved as she is; much the same way that Kevin Spacey’s credit is buried in Se7en. Ms Paulson really looks like Ms Kidman here (especially if one hasn’t seen the latter on screen for a number of years [:: awkward cough ::]) and her performance really is just as believable and studious as one Ms Kidman might bring. Early on, her character explains that she’s here to help the three characters overcome their delusions “by any means necessary,” which sounds particularly ominous.

Bruce Willis’ performance in Twelve Monkeys was super calm and flat but he also let his inner 8-year-old out with expressions of pure joy. It worked because there was a range. Here it doesn’t work because we don’t have much beyond ‘flat’ and ‘punching.’ That’s more like two modes, and just as two notes do not make a melody, two disparate states of being do not constitute a character.

It’s not until over an hour in that Mr Glass gets his action on, and it’s about the same time that something in the story happens too. That’s a long time to wait. Mr Jackson is worth the wait in any film, and here is no different. He is fantastic. Everything he does is exactly what’s needed.

Samuel L Jackson [left] as ‘Elijah Price’ and James McAvoy as ‘Kevin Michael Crumb,’ etcetera… — — — —

Mr McAvoy’s performance as Kevin Michael Crumb is once more, grand. I’ll admit to probably liking it as an actor, as opposed to doing so as a viewer. As is pointed-out on the PCHH episode linked to above, Mr McAvoy is Acting Really Hard here, with us seeing four complete transformations into ‘The Beast’ by my count. We had the personality revealed in the second film of this trilogy, so we already know what’s involved with the transformation, but one or two runs through the process is good as a reminder, perhaps with Elijah’s reaction when he sees it leading to an understanding of where he’s headed. Four, however, does seem a bit indulgent. I have the gift of objectivity and hindsight, but so would trim at least one of them out of this tale, probably switching to some other action while The Beast gets his growling done.

There’s a scene with Mr McAvoy’s multiple characters in the cell where he’s jumping back and forth between personalities and a nurse is there punching the light system to get Kevin to stop talking, and one wonders ‘why don’t you just leave the room, man? You won’t hear anything any of them are saying then!’ Granted, it does give the audience a chance to see a bunch of personalities in the character in rapid succession, but surely there’s a better way to present that which makes more narrative sense?

Overall, I love the performances, the story, and the action. The way the various plot threads all wove together and found conclusions was very satisfying. The new stuff was equally good, especially the things which were done with Ms Paulson’s character. The scripted dialogue was smart and witty and equally full of pathos. I would definitely recommend seeing all three parts of this. If you haven’t seen either Unbreakable or Split, do not start with this. It’s definitely a conclusion of a story, and not an entry point.

Some things I wouldn’t have done the way Mr Shyamalan did, but that’s because it was his movie and not mine. He did an excellent job with the creation of an ending to a complicated multi-part story.

★★★☆☆

[kl-writes]

Stable DC Timeline (Part 2/5)

At this point, I started thinking about what their ‘current’ ages should be. I see Flashpoint as the end of the initial DC Universe, so that’s the starting point for the stable DC Timeline’s ‘current’ era, or at least the point in time from where stories should develop and we start to put in new thoughts and ideas. Flashpoint takes place in mid-1974 (Unadj. 2011).

Batfamily:

Bruce Wayne: 55

·         Dick Grayson: 37

·         Helena Wayne: 27

·         Jason Todd: 26

·         Timothy Drake: 24

·         Cassandra Cain: 23

·         Damian Wayne: 22

·         Duke Thomas: 15 (Existence uncertain, he’s post-Flashpoint. His first appearance would be mid-1975, and we consider the current time to be 1974).

Selina Kyle:  55

Katherine Kane: 34

Barbara Gordon: 38 (Puts her at 16 at her first appearance)

Stephanie Brown: 23 (Puts her at 13 at her first appearance, and 17 at the birth of her daughter)

·         Unknown Daughter – Adopted by someone?: 6

Alfred Pennyworth: 75 (First appearance was in 1946. However, he was with the Waynes presumably during the upbringing of Bruce, so I used the minimum age of 20 at Bruce’s birthday, making his birthday 1899.)

Luke Fox: 19 (Post-Flashpoint)

Harper Row: 14 (Post-Flashpoint)

Speedsters:

Jay Garrick: 55

Barry Allen: 47

Wally West: 35

Iris West II: 3

Jai West: 3

Bart Allen: ??? (1966 would be his first appearance. Speedforce affected his aging, putting his birthday at 2 years prior, despite appearing to be 12. His effective age is about 20 as of 1974, so his civilian records likely have his birth year as ‘1956.’ These are fake, though, as he’s from the future).

 For a lot of the more modern comics, the ages of Damian and Timothy seem a bit too old, given their personalities. Even Dick seems a bit too old with this timeline. We can see that although the adjusted timeline works well for the oldest characters in DC, when it comes to legacy characters, the timeline isn’t perfect. It doesn’t help that in some stories, Dick and Wally are seen as young adult peers, and in others, Wally is seen as the father of a young family. This is where the stable timeline starts to change how characters are perceived. This is also why I wanted to minimize any changes to characters I might make to force them to fit the timeline, because introducing a stable timeline will force character growth and maturity.

Another thing I thought about was making certain character deaths permanent. Superman came back to life, Batman came back to life, and Jason Todd came back to life. My thought is, that unless their return created new stories (Like with Jason Todd), maybe they should just stay dead. This means that Superman died in 1965 (Unadj. 1992), Batman died in 1973 (Unadj. 2008), and Barry Allen died in 1962 (Unadj. 1986).

This doesn’t stop their stories. Wally West as the Flash has been thoroughly explored- in many ways, he absolutely trumped Jay Garrick and Barry Allen as the Scarlet Speedster. Dick Grayson as Batman was also interesting- he became Batman out of necessity, to stop the battle for the cowl. His dynamic with Damian was interesting. Given that Damian is “now” 22, perhaps Dick Grayson would step down from the role of Batman, and go back to being Nightwing. Damian always wanted to be Batman’s successor. Jason Todd, Timothy Drake, and Cassandra Cain all seem as though they’ve gone on their own paths of heroism now.

Superman’s permanent death would also be interesting. It was Superman himself that stopped the fighting of the supermen. Had he not intervened, perhaps Steel would have become Metropolis’s hero. Maybe constant battles between Lex Luthor and Superboy would have opened up new avenues- it’s not a straight Darth Vader, given that Superboy’s only a clone, but Lex Luthor has shown some affection for Superboy in the past. What would happen if Lex were able to establish a more permanent sort of mind control? What if he did so, and essentially took control of Metropolis’s ‘Superman,’ being able to play both sides of the board? There’s definitely a lot of room for stories like this.

Those were the biggest 3 deaths at the top of my head, but there were many others where the character came back to life, but didn’t necessarily have to. I’m not counting when they came back within a few months (Like with Wally West or Guy Gardner), of course, just the deaths that were “supposed” to stick- Bart Allen II, Supergirl, Hal Jordan, Martian Manhunter, Captain Boomerang I, etc.

Another thing we can do is look at deaths of minor characters, especially those around Final Crisis and Flashpoint, and determine whether we want those deaths to ‘stick’ or not. For example, Weather Wizard’s son, Josh Jackam, was killed off during Final Crisis. Owen Mercer, son of the first Captain Boomerang, was killed during Blackest Night. Both of these characters were potential ‘legacy’ characters. The Rogues don’t have many of these, so it might make more sense if they didn’t die, especially since their deaths didn’t have any lasting effects on the story.

Rogues (And kids):

Leonard Snart: 47

Lisa Snart: 37 (DEAD)

Hartley Rathaway: 46

Mark Mardon: 46

·         Josh Jackam: 5 (Dead?)

Sam Scudder: 46 (DEAD)

Evan McCullock: 31

James Jesse: 45 (DEAD)

·         Billy Hong: 17

Axel Walker: 24

Digger Harkness: 45 (Dead?)

·         Owen Mercer: 23 (Dead?)

Roscoe Dillon: 45 (DEAD)

Mick Rory: 44

Roy G. Bivolo: 35 (DEAD)

Owen and Josh are soft deaths for the reasons listed above. Digger came back to life, but he should probably just be dead-dead like Superman and Batman. Looking at this, it’s kind of depressing how many of my favorite characters, the Rogues, are dead.

If we were to look at a modern (1974) Rogues, we might also consider Wally West’s hallucination in the Flash v2 #140, with Cadet Cold, Mirror Miss, Heat-Whelp, Weather Whiz-Kid and Captain Slingshot as children of the Rogues. Cadet Cold would either be Leonard’s kid, or perhaps an unknown child of Lisa and Roscoe, who was perhaps sent to an orphanage. Mirror Miss would be Evan’s, Heat-Whelp would be Mick’s, Weather Whiz-Kid is more than likely Josh Jackam, and Captain Slingshot is Owen’s. Billy Hong, AKA Makhalli, with his magical powers, would likely become a superhero of some sort, if so, probably mentored by Hartley. But all of this is just speculation!

 The Luthors and the Supermen:

Clark Kent/Kal-El: 56 (DEAD)

Jonathan Samuel Kent: 1? (Existence uncertain, as he’s a post-convergence character who is the son of the New Earth Clark Kent)

Christopher Kent/Lor-Zod: 22

Kara Zor-El (Supergirl): 46 (DEAD)

Kara Zor-L (Powergirl): 39

Alexander Joseph “Lex” Luthor: 55

·         Lena Luthor II: 6

·         Connor Kent/Kon-El: 9, he was “born” in 1965 with the body of a teenager, so his biological age is anywhere from 22 – 28. (DEAD)

·         Jerry White: 32

Lena Luthor I: 45

·         Lori Luthor 17, high schooler. Honestly, this one could be anywhere from 14-19, she only appeared in one storyline before Flashpoint.

One thing that I didn’t realize before was that Superboy was yet another person who died and came back to life 3 years later. So my remarks earlier about the dynamic between Lex Luthor and Connor might not apply, depending on where you set the limit on how long until death becomes “permanent.” My initial thought was 1 year max, but maybe this should change. I’m not quite sure what to do with the two Karas, but it’s entirely possible that Superman has 2 cousins.

 The Marvels and the Sivanas

Billy Batson: Biologically 23/Chronologically 42

Mary Bromfield: 23/42

Freddy Freeman: 23/42

Thaddeus Sivana, Sr.: 56/75 (Assuming a starting age of 40)

Magnificus Sivana: 36/55

Beautia Sivana: 36/55

Georgia Sivana: 23/42

Thaddeus Sivana, Jr.: 23/42

The Wizard: 9000+

This is another special case. The original run was from 1941 – 1953, and due to a long story about legal issues, didn’t have another ongoing series until 1973, and after Crisis on Infinite Earths, in 1991. In 1973, Billy had been gone for 20 years without aging, due to being exiled by Dr. Sivana, placed into suspended animation. In 1991, the story was that the Wizard froze Fawcett City in time to protect it from the encroaching evils of the outside world. As a result, between 1953 and 1991, we can say that the Marvel family didn’t age. Even adjusted, that’s 1945 – 1964, or about 19 years taken from Billy’s life. Billy began Captain Marvel at age 7 – 14, depending on the version. If we aim low, and take into account the lost years, then in 1964 his age is still only 13, which fits him being a child hero for that series.

The Sivana family, like the rest of Fawcett, only lost 9 years.

Edit: Upon re-reading, I found that the sivanas also lost 19 years. I adjusted the ages accordingly.

[sbnkalny]

fanmother: Mine stopped getting better after year 4

birdrobot: You take top lane i get a gold tooth like a soldier and stopped up like a toilet.

fanmother: I mean “knives.” his head look like a soldier and stopped up like a soldier and stopped up Every time that i walk away i see the picture but i can't see the frame another tie to cut them but they're thousands of miles away

birdrobot: Time has been ‘the good’ themselves, meaning the noble, the mighty, the high-placed and the high-minded, who saw and judged themselves and their actions as good, i mean “knives.” his head look like that? don’t sweat it kind of pisses me ofd actually go to sleep but im procrastenating

fanmother: It kind of pisses me ofd actually mean it out with my dang titties!

birdrobot: Doin 80 in a 60 fuck a clown and then went through some kind of pisses me ofd actually achieves any political ends in a useful way

birdrobot: It kind of pisses me ofd actually get physically blasted by other peoples emotions are a scam perpetuated by parents/guardians, teachers, peers, and the media is being loud and has to be of 2 or more kotoba (thats japanese for pink) or any kinda spectral form oh i'll be damned if i don't drop all my clothes from there

birdrobot: Im kind of pisses me ofd actually really like groundhog day loop episodes, but i don't know why you chose the name but if it wasn't for your BETRAYAL!

birdrobot: Is there some kind of pisses me ofd actually i wish you would rather interact with the sickness

miraakcultist: It kind of pisses me ofd actually being released- along with dlc actually being isnt that a human bone, not striking in the tale it told alone so much as i set you up for parole! i'm gonna explode! i'm gonna ***** ******* and *** **** *** ur *****

fanmother: It kind of pisses me ofd actually en kalny you brighten my day!!! >:³c >;³c

birdrobot: It kind of pisses me ofd actually en kalny is still not finished, please do not try to sleep but im just going to take whatever you throw at me and you so weird all the time but it ran away i run life in the face the finest creative loss of grace out of heartshot with no extraterrestrial dick in exhaust pipe.

miraakcultist: It kind of pisses me ofd actually get physically blasted by other peoples emotions alienated everybody who Was dear to me distance from myself oh, it's what you say oh, it's what you say oh, it's what you say and now through this eternal bleak existence.

fanmother: What kind of pisses me ofd actually en kalny if you watch boku no Pico yet here's a world where rays of sunshine like clark and bruce are evil, there should logically be at least one world where clowns are laughing at us.

miraakcultist: What kind of pisses me ofd actually i wish i had no idea.

fanmother: It kind of pisses me ofd actually i wish i Was because he’s a major fucking hottie

birdrobot: It kind of pisses me ofd actually get physically blasted by other peoples emotions alienated everybody who Was gordon freemans brother Was one day we ll get a fire/grass type :v

miraakcultist: What kind of pisses me ofd actually go to college right now, i woud like you bit off more than i trust myself purple now how do i get a gold tooth like a fancy pirate

miraakcultist: The turing test, developed by alan turing in 1950, is a test of a machine's ability to exhibit intelligent behaviour equivalent to, or indistinguishable from, that of a human and am willing to kill a person can be human despite being assigned clown at birth, but realized Was human later on' kind of pisses me ofd actually en

[dented-nado]

Loved your last prompt fill! Would you consider 15. “Are you cold?” Superbat :)

[[Sorry this took me so long!! This turned out a bit angsty, dealing with Bruce pushing himself and mental health issues, but its overall hurt and comfort

At times, it felt the cold was all he could feel. Some might think he was being over-dramatic, but sometimes, Bruce would fall into a quiet slump that only those who had known him for a long time really recognized. He wouldn’t really be angry… or sad… or happy… he’d be just… flat… to everything. Bruce himself hated getting like that because it made decisions a lot harder - he just didn’t have the energy to really care… and he didn’t really want to think about why it was happening either.

He, and others around him had just learned to wait it out. 

“He’s just in a mood, he’ll get over it.”

“Don’t take it personally, he’ll be back to ordering us around in no time.”

“That’s just how he is sometimes.”

Bruce tended to only realize those words actually hurt him when he finally was able to pull himself out of his slump, his fatigue with everything life had thrown at him, and by then it was too late to protest or say that it had hurt him.

Not that he’d ever say something like that anyway, even if he did recognize he felt hurt by it right away.

Because deep down, he was sure he didn’t really matter.

So, on Gotham nights like tonight, where he was shut down emotionally and mentally even to himself, the cold really was the only thing he could really know he was feeling. A biting chill that stung his face every time the wind blew. Even the batsuit didn’t stop his body pulling blood and warmth away from his fingers and toes to better protect itself from the elements. He flexed his hands as he went about his patrol, trying to plead with his body to go a little longer. If all he was going to feel was cold, he thought he’d rather not feel it at all. For nothing to truly bother him. To be able to make decisions and carry out his tasks not unlike a machine. Going in, getting the job done, and barely ever needing maintenance.

Instead, here he was, mind shut down but body brutally aware of the freezing breeze that felt like pelting him tonight.

Just a little longer.

Keep going.

If you stop, you lose.

He had drowned out the voice of Alfred who had practically begged him for several long minutes to come home, warm up, eat something and go to bed.

He had barely acknowledged Dick, who had tried to talk to him, but had gotten exasperated and done trying after Bruce failed to respond to him… not like Bruce really blamed him for heading out… he only wished he could make up his mind on whether to reach out or retreat away further. The latter - was the option he was beginning to think to be the option that would give most of his children a better chance at happiness.

There hadn’t been any big crimes, only a few muggings, but that didn’t stop him stubbornly continuing his search, convinced something was going to happen.

Something had to happen.

Maybe even if he came home bruised and battered… at least he’d feel something else… right?

After another hour of pushing on, biting cold, fingers getting stiffer with the cold, he landed on top of one of Gotham’s oldest buildings. He looked out over the city… as quiet as Gotham could be. He looked down at his grappling gun, his fingers were trembling… it was looking down at his shaking hands that made him finally realize the rest of him was shivering. His breath formed little clouds in front of his face as his breathing was starting to be more labored. He clenched his teeth and tightened his grip on the grappling gun, almost like he was trying to strangle it. 

His mind flip-flopped between wishing the whole world would disappear and wishing someone would find him and tell him it was okay. His vision narrowed into a tunnel. He could hear his heart pounding in his ears.

“why can’t I just feel or not feel?” He asked himself.

“Why can’t I be better?? Or just not care anymore?”

With a growl of frustration, he threw the grappling gun at the ground and keeled over, crouching and wrapping his arms and his capes around himself. He felt his eyes grow hot like they wanted to cry but he couldn’t he just couldn’t.

Thoughts swirled in his mind, biting at him just as intensely as the cold.

“Why am I here?”

“What am I doing??”

“Is it even worth it? Is there a point?”

“am I doing it wrong?”

“I can’t do it. I can’t do it. I can’t do it.”

“I’m sorry… I’m sorry….”

He wondered if he had done something purely wicked and evil as a child to deserve this. To deserve to loose mom and dad, to deserve his best friend descending into madness, to deserve to feel so out of control of himself that he’d flip between feeling too much and not being able to feel at all, deserve to feel like he has no choice but to cut himself off from everyone if he doesn’t want anyone he loves to get hurt ever again.

Maybe he was the constant… maybe if he didn’t exist… maybe…. maybe….

 “Are you cold?” 

Right on time… just like when he stepped in the way of a bullet or caught someone right before they hit the ground… he was there.

Normally Bruce would have scrambled to his feet and tried to claim he was just thinking about a case, but instead he just shivered, unable to help his teeth chattering and just barely turned his head in Superman’s direction.

Clark’s red boot clad feet touched the ground quietly, and he smoothly leaned down, hand on Batman’s back. His red cape spilling on the ground and bringing a bright color back into a dull world.

“You’re cold.” He said softly, without judgement as he worked slowly, moving his hand from Batman’s back to around his shoulders.

Bruce felt goosebumps form up and down his arms, Clark’s warm arm starting to battle the cold that had enveloped him. Of course, the man… child of the sun… was quite literally a walking heater.

Slowly Bruce closed his eyes, allowing himself to be moved so his face was pressed against his super friend’s chest as Clark pulled him into a quiet hug.

He sighed, letting Clark’s natural warmth envelop him. He released his arms that has been curled around his sides and wrapped his own arms around Clark, despite warming up he had started shivering even more. He decided it was better to feel warmer at that moment than pull away “because it was a hug”.

“I’m going to take you home B…”

Bruce nodded, now squeezing his eyes tightly shut as if somehow that would help him forget the world around him.

They were flying, Clark was holding him.

“I’m sorry” Bruce mumbled in a hoarse voice.

“You don’t have anything to be sorry for B.” Clark hushed calmly.

—-

“You don’t have to stay around Clark.” Bruce tried to say as he sat, warming up beside the fire Alfred had lit, still feeling the deeper chill hadn’t gone away.

“I know. But I want to. Unless you want me to leave.”

Bruce stayed silent.

Clark smiled. “I didn’t think so.”

Bruce took a long sip of his honey lemon tea now that it was finally cool enough to not burn his tongue.

“So why were you punishing yourself out there?”

Bruce nearly spit his tea back out. “I wasn’t…!” He met Clark’s eyes, and shut his mouth. He had expected Clark to be sitting there rolling his eyes at his behavior, but instead all he saw was genuine worry.

“…I didn’t mean to be.”

Clark put a hand on his knee. “I know Bruce, I don’t think you ever mean to.”

Bruce bit his lip. 

Clark was his first friend he had let in in a while. Something about Clark screamed safety, and it wasn’t because he was Superman. It was written in the way he would gently stay by his side, how he would smile at him, how he would listen to every single word and take everyone into careful consideration. Whenever Bruce had struggled to be open in the way most friends are with each other… how he had remembered being with friends in past… Clark was incredibly patient, would gently urge him out of his comfort zone but never shame him for struggling.

He loved him. Not just in a “I want to kiss him and wake up beside him everyday way.”. He loved him in a “You make me believe that life can be better than this, you make me feel like I can heal and be loved as I am” kind of way. 

But at the same time, it scared him… because what if he was so awful that the warmth and light he loved in Clark so much would go out?

“It’s… just a mood I get in, I’ll get over it..” He grumbled, curling his legs up onto his seat with him.

Clark raised his eyebrows. “What kind of a mood?” He asked seemingly innocently.

Bruce swung his head back to him. Would Clark even know what he was talking about if he told him? 

“…Do you ever…. just not really feel anything?” Bruce suggested slowly.

Clark tilted his head to the side. “Like an empty kind of feeling?”

Bruce swallowed hard. “I… think that’s one way to put it.”

“Yeah… I’ve felt that way before. After what happened with Black Mercy… there were lots of times I felt like that. It was…”

“Frustrating?” Bruce suggested.

Clark nodded. “Yeah, frustrating.”

“Like you either want to be able to mourn or…” Bruce continued, leaning forward a little.

“Really not feel anything at all?”

Bruce nodded.

Clark smiled at him. “So… when you or others say you’re in a “mood” is that’s what’s happening.”

Bruce looked down at his lap and slowly nodded again.

Clark took a deep breath and moved a little closer to sit beside Bruce. 

“I think… you know how when you hurt yourself, you try to do things to distract yourself from the pain?” Clark suggested. “And if you’re in pain for a long period of time, eventually you just accept it’s there?”

“Yeah…” Bruce agreed.

“I think your mind does that too, when your hurt? I think you do feel, a lot, it’s just too much for you to handle all at once. It’s just trying to avoid thinking of what your feeling to protect yourself.” Clark said, arm now back around Bruce’s shoulders.

“…. I know your right. I just… wish I didn’t have to deal with it at all.” 

“I know… but I think you have to if you want to move on, in any way. I was in therapy for six months before I finally broke down about how it felt… to lose a whole lifetime you were convinced was real….”

Bruce looked at him a bit shocked. “You went to therapy?”

Clark nodded. “Oh yeah. I mean you remember back then, you had to stop me from doing something I would have regretted just because deep down I was so angry about the whole thing but refused to tackle it.”

“Does your therapist know your…”

“One of the few.” Clark said with a slight quirk of his lips. “Even Superman needs to talk about shit sometimes.”

Bruce couldn’t help a small smile. “Well when you swear, I know you’re serious about it.”

“You’re damn straight I am.” Clark chirped playfully nudging his body against Bruce’s.

“I guess… I should… I just never really thought… you know… I’m a billionaire, I’m batman… what do I have to complain about?” Bruce replied, only half joking.

“You’re allowed to feel things Bruce. Your worth it, I promise you.”

Bruce studied Clark’s face, chest feeling heavy.

“What makes you so sure?”

Clark brushed a hair out of Bruce’s face, startling the dark knight slightly, but he quickly realized Clark wasn’t even aware he was doing it as he looked Bruce over almost… affectionately.

“Because I know you.” Clark replied. 

“…You do.”

Finally, for the first time that night… Bruce felt warm.