#And Undertale discourse

[rottenhellion]

Unpopular opinion: Attraction is involuntary and morally neutral, there's nothing wrong with a woman being attracted to a canonically MLM character, a man being attracted to a canonically WLW character, or anyone being attracted to a canonically ace character. It only becomes shitty behavior if you're in denial about it and arguing with people.

[shippyo]

the duality of these ships 🩷🖤

[autizta]

"abstract art has no soul, AI art has no soul, generative art has no soul, art made by-" SOULS WERE MADE UP BY BIG TOBY FOX. TO SELL UNDERTALES, WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[felisgalactus]

My interpretation of the letter

[sajdd]

crazy how theres so much discourse about toriel, asgore and sans because of the new chapters - specifically ch4 ending

sans has been my favourite character in undertale since day 1 but hes just a funny little gag character in deltarune who came off a bit insensitive at the end of ch4. he probably has literally 0 clue about any of the issues or family drama going on. in his eyes he's probably just having a fun time with a new friend. like yeah he was quite insensitive to kris and susie but i honestly think its just not that deep. (at least not yet.) i think people are just expecting undertale-levels of introspection from him at this moment when he's basically not even plot-relevant right now

toriel is a caring mother who's going through the stresses of looking after a kid who has been distancing themselves from everyone for a long time, missing her other child who has been away for studies, and is being stalked by her ex husband who just will not leaver her alone. the way she acted at the end of the chapter was Not Good™ as it was very irresponsible of not checking up on her child but she's just a kind woman who is flawed and made a mistake just like everyone else can

asgore is a man who clearly knows something about dess' dissapearance and we can infer that somehow this led to the dreemur's marriage falling apart and he's desperately trying to prove his innocence or something - thinking that if he does that then it will all go back to normal. is that a situation that calls for some sympathy? probably, depending on what happened. but is stalking toriel the answer to fixing their marriage? fuck no he should absolutely be judged for that - but while his current actions are inexcusable we can assume that whatever happened has made him that desperate of a man and this can evoke some feelings of sympathy

most of us have seen undertale and know how complex all these characters are. yes they are different in deltarune but the context of undertale allows us to already have a loose grasp of what their personalities are like.

they are all complex characters who are well-meaning but can make brash or emotional decisions that do not have the intention of hurting someone but hurt a lot anyway. why is everybody suddenly jumping to extremes on all these characters. none of them are 100% evil or good in this scenario.

[dust-corner]

my thoughts on the matter

[carlyraejepsans]

So in a way, is there a difference between headcanoning frisk/chara as girls or boys and headcanoning them as trans/nonbinary if it's all headcanon in the end anyway and everyone is equally wrong?

yes there's a difference because arbitrarily deciding that canon established neutrality is something that you get to override and is automatically more "debatable" than a character being established as male or female is a very obvious double standard.

interpreting them as nonbinary is only a way to translate their neutrality while assuming that the rest of their race thinks of gender as we do in real life. it doesn't change anything about how the character is referred to. rather, it preserves it. headcanoning them as a boy or a girl throws aside their neutrality entirely as irrelevant and "arbitrary". for what. YOUR discomfort?

while i might not think the characters in the text itself are trans, this attitude REALLY speaks to people's ignorance and weirdness around trans people in real life. because outside the game, real gender neutral people exist and they ARE, of course, transgender. someone who has gender neutral and nonbinary friends and is normal about it is not going to scramble to immediately fit any neutral characters back into the gender binary like a fucking 5 year old. because for someone who isn't transphobic, neutrality is just another way for human beings to exist.

anyway how many gendered characters are there out there? how many textually neutral ones, to compare? go play with another one of your billions of toys, if not retconning an entire character is sow hawd fow u

tldr: yes. kiss my ass

[fetusbaconegg]

This happened at the violet banquet just so you know the mods are proharassment and think being minors means not having consequences for the stuff they do

[thiccsys]

riddle me this tumblr users, if i am an anti that dislikes incest and anything considered proship why am i drawing gore and happily talking about error destroying universes (ending the lives of millions).

i dont get it why do we draw the line at incest. gore and cannibalism and murder are just as bad when placed into a REAL LIFE SITUATION. anyway if you can solve this riddle reblog!! im curious!!

(also be nice. i’m genuinely asking rn)

[celtrist]

This is to bounce off a very similar poll just with a more specified situation. I'm curious if the language would effect the results as the previous poll was a bit broader with what I asked.

I'll link the poll it's bouncing off of afterward when this one's over for anyone interested as I do wanna avoid people getting influenced about it but also know some people are probably curious.

[cute-little-fly]

I find funny that you know you are a starting to be a veteran in this fandom when you have seen more than one iteration of the same arguments and discussions about Stolitz.

You start caring each time less about it but also, in great part, because how tired and annoyed you are of having the exact same discussions over and over. We could be having so many interesting analysis and discussions about it. But they are circling over and over the same things.

At some point they should know when to stop, they won’t make us dislike the show and they will just keep agreeing with other haters. Of course, I know they won’t stop. After years of cycling the same things it’s more clear than water.

They are just angry that the show they despise and dislike that hard is popular. I think this is it. They think we should not like it and that is so entitled… Why you dare tell people what to like and what not?

I can even stand people thinking: I don’t get how can they like it. Because well, okay, you have a different mindset and for you is hard to understand the appeal and that’s it. I’m okay with that. But the moment they think this should not be successful is when I put a STOP.

I think that at the beginning people didn’t had much issue with Hazbin because it was less popular. People can stand these things if they don’t get mass appeal.

Video games like Undertale suffered the same phenomenon. People were okay with it when it wasn’t popular, but when a lot of people like it and ends up being popular they say: okay this is nice and all, but this video game doesn’t deserve much praising and popularity because it is technically so bad and the programming is trash etc etc… and like, most players don’t gaf about those things because we aren’t game critics or game experts. We liked the characters, the experience and we got emotional about it and other similar games don’t offer what this offers. That’s it.

I feel the same about the hellaverse. Even with all its flaws, I have been captivated by these world and characters. This offers what other adult animated shows don’t (if you count only those made in North America, because I would say anime and manga has a lot of different stuff). That’s it.

I can think in some many movies that aren’t really that good plot wise but are beloved classics for what they represent for a group of people or a generation. We… sometimes are like that, and I find funny that a lot of the people that complain about the hellaverse is not like they enjoy high artistic quality or super niche series or movies.

They also watch other similar stuff that is silly too, or doesn’t have this immense writing or artistic depth, and just because is more edgy or dark themed they don’t see an issue with that existing. But the hellaverse existing and being liked? A crime just because it dares to have some gray morality around the plot and characters.

They wouldn’t survive real controversial niche movies and cinema. They are worse sometimes in all of what they complain about the hellaverse.

As long as the Hellaverse is popular and get good things they will be mad… and that is so annoying if you just want to chill and enjoy it in peace as how the show was created and intended.

[howlsofbloodhounds]

Thinking about that one confession just annoys me. “People don’t even actually care othertale casts just sans!!” And yet when like the 2% of the fandom that actually posts about Othertale does posts about the rest of the cast, crickets.

[scarlet97531]

⭕️❗️fandoms try not to blacklist harmless ships challenge go!

Guys. It’s like. Impossible to stop ppl from shipping something so popular and relatively unproblematic for such a small reason. Re-read what Jakei said, just don’t involve Jakei in anything related to the ship, and touch some grass maybe??(/that’s my plan anyway)

Shipping is such an unstoppable force, trying to cut out ships from a fandom entirely should be reserved for extreme cases only. (And even then you’ll only have so much success with that..)

[sp4cec4se]

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[stellocchia]

I'm the anon who sent "the problem with ColorKiller" ask.

I've seen it around a lot and I wanted to clear up a couple of things if that's okay:

I'm not a fan of killermare like some assumed. I don't think that's a healthy relationship. I don't think I implied that in my ask either

I did phrase that ask poorly and I could tell once I got your response. I was tired lol

I guess most of my frustration came from the fact that ColorKiller interests me a lot, but the way it tends to be written/shown always feels flat to me? And that's a pity since they have a lot of potential

I should not have said that Killer isn't able to have healthy relationships. Again, I was tired and frustrated because I couldn't find what I was looking for at all lol

That's all

[Ask in Question]

Hi again there.

I don't mind letting you "clear things up" for as possible as that is.

I will answer you point by point though.

1) I didn't assume that you were into killermare. I don't usually assume much of anything unless openly stated. But I guess good to know for those interested?

Personally, I do enjoy unhealthy dynamics too, so I'm a sucker for those two.

2) To me, it was less a problem of phrasing and more a problem of content. You could have phrased what you said differently, but that doesn't change the fact that you still said that an abuse victim for some undisclosed reason is incapable of forming healthy relationships.

The frills you put onto a pile of shit don't change that it is still a pile of shit nonetheless.

3) Again, my response to that doesn't change from what I said the first time around.

If you're disappointed that you can't find what you're looking for, make it yourself. Write it, draw it, rant about it. The fandom is ours to build up however we please, but you gotta put the work in it.

Hell, not too long ago, I got into a ship that really does not exist out there (BunnyDeer my beloved). Instead of complaining about the unfairness of people not seeing their potential, I wrote a long ass fic about them meeting. And now there's some art of them out there! And that's so much more than I expected to happen!

That's how fandom is. You can't complain about the lack of something if you're not working to create it yourself at all.

4) Yeah, we agree on this point, you should not have said that. It's false and it's a harmful kinda idea to spew for the reasons people much more eloquent than me explained in the reblogs of the previous ask.

I don't much care for the excuses, but if you understand that now then I'm glad to hear it.

[transgenderwaterrat]

utdr fans are still being normal about toriel and asgore I see