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sepublic · 2 months ago

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Dana Terrace Q&A at Weebcon 2025!!!

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Since I don’t see anyone else posting it (despite not being the only person recording, I noticed at least two others), I may as well show my recording of the Dana Terrace Q&A from Weebcon 2025! I actually got to ask Dana a question myself, more on that a bit; But as for the rundown:

If she was transported to the Boiling Isles, the person to teach her magic would of course be Eda; Dana sheepishly hesitated as she said it because it was so obvious, but at the same time what other answer would there be, besides maybe Bump??? She joked that Eda would probably get her killed, but still!

Out of the voice cast, Wendie Malick as Eda really stuck out to Dana, being a professional who knew exactly what to do, and a pretty well-known one at that; It was Dana’s first time as a showrunner so she was inexperienced in guiding the VAs, but Wendie helped encourage Dana to offer her input.

If asked what track she’d be in, Dana acknowledged her self-insert and acknowledged they were an Oracle, and also Beastkeeping, though noted it’d been two years, so she had trouble remembering; Indeed, IIRC she said in a Post-Hoot after the finale that her self-insert was supposed to be in Construction? Or maybe I’m just making that connection because back during the 2020 Reddit AMA, Dana brought up Construction due to being a more artsy coven.

Dana was excited how she, JBO, and Zach now had the opportunity to do all of the grosser, tense, emotionally intense things they wanted to do with The Owl House in Knights of Guinevere. KoG was actually developed towards the end of TOH’s run, in fact; During Dana’s freetime, she’d keep herself from going insane by working on this project, and eventually pitched it to her fellow head writers, who helped Dana develop the idea further. Eventually they pitched KoG to Glitch a year later. Dana described it as “messy” and “experimental” but also “fun.”

I find this revelation interesting, because given how long production in animation takes, it always amazed me how quickly Dana was able to get another show running, after TOH ended! So learning it was technically in the works since before TOH ended fits things nicely into a timeline here; Dana didn’t simply take a surprisingly short showrunning hiatus and then come up with this, it was being formulated as TOH was wrapping up!

No surprise, Disney and Glitch are “Night and day” in their treatment of artists and showrunners, with Dana mentioning she feels taken care of by Glitch, treated nicely.

If Dana had the opportunity to voice one of her characters, she said –if she was suddenly good at voice acting- King, due to his “explosive range” while mentioning a KoG character who has yet to debut.

Pitching a show is starting an idea, working on it from months to year; TOH only took a couple months before Dana pitched it to Disney, because she needed to do this, to try and see if it got any traction. She brought it a room of 2-3 people who pretended to be interested, because they’d heard a bunch of other pitches that day, so when Dana stood out, it felt nice. It takes three months for executives to decide if they want to move forward on it, and then another 3-6 months, etc.

Dana got be involved with the voice actors as much as she wanted to and could, with seasons 1-2, she was there for almost every performance. With S2B and S3, Dana could trust Eden Riegel to direct in her place as she was more involved with writing at the time. Dana was mostly involved in writing, in figuring out the scripts and working with the weird curveballs Disney threw them; Some solutions were successful, others not as much. There were many limitations in S1.

Every performance of Hooty by Alex in the booth was hilarious; He’d often start riffing in Hooty’s voice and going a full minute longer than his actual two lines to say. They were able to use a couple of Hooty lines, but most were unused.

This was the part where us fans were invited to line up and ask questions!!!

If Dana could change one thing about the show (other than the cancellation) she admitted to wanting to rewrite Once Upon a Swap LMAAAAOOOOOOOOO-

To come up with the concept of TOH’s universe, Dana started off with the initial concept that she disliked a lot of fantasy novels and stories. So when she created, it came from a place of cynicism and negativity (not always great, in her words), and she liked to challenge herself to take something she disliked and found frustrating, and figure out a version of it she could love. So Dana turned this fantasy world into something more gruesome, scary. She put a horror spin, gave everything teeth and claws; Make it fun for her!

Five years ago, the character Dana related to the most was Luz because of plenty of her stories, esp in regard to her father’s death at a young age and not fitting in. But now that Dana’s thirty-four, she relates to Eda a lot; She finds herself becoming more isolated and against the world. At some point she might start wearing solely red dresses.

When creating the concept of the Collector, Dana’s thought process was wanting to create someone very ethereal and childish, and had this thought of a child flying through space, who never understood death, and liked to create chaos and destruction in his wake. She doesn’t really know why. The thought process and the galactic aesthetic of someone like that was very interesting to Dana; The Collector ended up being one of her favorite characters.

(I find this info very vindicating, as I’ve seen people speculate that the Collector not knowing of death was a contradictory retcon done in S3 to make them more sympathetic; No, that was always the idea, since the very beginning! Since they rewrote the Collector prior to S2B, mind you; Before that, Dana confirmed during her Gallery Nucleus that they originally had a different personality and direction as seen in 2A, which is likely why that depiction was made into a separate character, an Archivist. But by Elsewhere and Elsewhen, a Collector oblivious to death was always the goal. We’re getting Ship of Theseus here about characters during the development process.)

Onto my question!!! I asked about the Watching and Dreaming storyboard in which Odalia would’ve been there alongside the Hexsquad, watching the horizon after Belos’ defeat, and how Rebecca Bozza confirmed there was a cut confrontation between Camila and Odalia in the Archives.

Dana mused that if Camila ever met Odalia, it probably wouldn’t be a pretty situation; There’d be a lot of glares. But there’s no canonical confrontation, so Dana could only pretend that Camila would’ve smacked her.

I think Dana may have misheard my question? And/or she didn’t recall what they had planned for the finale (I was too shy to clarify, press her about it); It makes me wonder if the idea had been too shortlived, and the writers juggling so much (in addition to Dana handling KoG, as we’ve just discovered), that it’s since slipped her mind after two years. This does make me wonder if it was, in some part, a fluke by the storyboard artist; After all, Clouds on the Horizon had storyboards in which Amity wore the portal key necklace while confronting her mother within the Abomaton bubble.

Of all the TOH scenes Dana wrote, her favorite was the whole third act of King’s Tide; She co-wrote it with Zach Marcus. Dana handled a lot of how it paced out, the way the dialogue came out. Sometimes Dana writes a script and it’s the most painful, struggling experience for her; So difficult to perfect and get out, requiring a thousand changes. But for King’s Tide, there it was! And she’s very proud of it. Dana has a hard time looking back at the show, because it’s like an old sketchbook for her; She’s always wishing she could’ve done something better. But King’s Tide is one of the few episodes she can say she nailed that one.

(God I feel that. Personal aside, I think something a lot of writers take for granted is their ability to always look back and edit and revise at their own leisure, even after posting, whenever they want, until the end of time. But writers for shows don’t exactly get that luxury, especially when a script needs to be finalized so animation and everything else, its own beast, can follow suit. Can’t easily update a script –esp at the last second- without demanding the rest follow!)

Two questions about KoG; What was the moment when Dana worked with Glitch that made her realize the difference between it and Disney? Dana was very cautious going into Glitch, and as she told some there, that she was going in like a stray cat who didn’t trust anyone, like she was left out in the cold. But slowly, over the course of the year, Dana realized Glitch actually treated their artists with respect; If someone says something isn’t working and offers another way, Glitch actually listens and changes! Wild! They’re a company (she’d rather say “group of people”) that seem very determined to learn and grow and make sure everyone’s doing right. Glitch is a far cry from Disney.

The other question was what was the process of Glitch doing 2D animation for KoG instead of its usual 3D; Did Dana have to convince them, or were they open from the start? Dana thought Glitch was always excited to do 2D, and one of the things she was able to offer was her experience in doing a 2D show and how production for it would look. It was an arrangement that worked out for everyone, where Dana got to create her own pipeline for the show which has been working very well this far. There’s no odd restrictions from Glitch’s management, it’s been very nice.

In regards to cosplays she’d like to see of her characters, or which stood out to her, Dana once saw a 7-foot tall (before the horns!!!) Belos cosplay that was size-accurate via giant platform boots underneath the cloak; It was awesome. Dana always loves seeing King costumes because they’re essentially giant furry suits, but she speculates it’s also why she doesn’t see many of them, because furry suits can be very intense to make. But Dana was very excited to see any KoG cosplays in the future.

This part intrigued me, because the day prior, a fan dressed as the princess from KoG had shown up to meet Dana Terrace and I’d come across them, exchanged info, and clarified that the schedule for Dana had updated since it was announced back near the end of February; At first she was going to be there for all three days of Weebcon, but could only be there for two (On her Bluesky account, she did allude to some trouble occurring to her that Friday, which may have been the reason for this change). I’d reassured the cosplayer they hadn’t missed Dana or done anything wrong…

And lo and behold, the person who asked the question had also met this cosplayer, and brought it up to Dana! Dana was excited and wished she could’ve seen, and asked for anyone with a photo of the cosplay to tag her on Twitter or any other social media.

What Dana listens to when doing art is True Crime podcasts, which sucked her in during the pandemic. Other than that, she listens to classical music, as it fires certain neurons within her brain that get her very focused; She has a hard time watching anything when drawing. Sometimes Dana goes into psycho mode, pure silence; Earplugs in, nothing but the beat of her own heart, and pure focus. Locked-in, takes a certain insane mood for sure.

A fellow Raine cosplayer asked Dana what she was most excited for in regard to KoG, and she said Episode 4!!! There’s lots of stuff Dana and co. are planning; Obviously the pilot’s not finished right now, but the things they’re thinking about are very exciting and she’s excited for everyone to see the character designs and stunning animation. Dana lamented that if she kept going, she’d end up saying something she wasn’t supposed to. She’s so quiet posting online, because otherwise she’d just be posting KoG and inevitably slip up. Overall, she’s excited.

If Dana got to do Owl House with no restrictions, Dana absolutely would’ve leaned more into the horror theme; She initially pitched it as PG-13 and leaning more into horror, though this doesn’t mean they would’ve taken away any of the heart or sweetness between the characters (Which I’ve suspected and really appreciate to hear; Always good to have the heart beneath it all). All this means is that the intense scenes would’ve been more intense, and the tension between characters more intense.

Overall the art direction might’ve been grittier; But during development, executives kept suggesting the crew round out the characters to make them more appealing, and at some point Dana was frustrated because her personal art style has a lot of straight lines. She would’ve liked to have leaned more into horror and the original vision, BUT she’s still very happy with how it came out.

Someone I met and talked to earlier about Isabelle Rosalini’s role in the show, and the enormity of the feat, also brought it up again with their question about whether there was a TOH design where Dana had a specific actor in mind to play them.

The interviewer, at that point, had the perfect segue to bring in none other than Zeno Robinson himself, who I’d just found out was going to be at Weebcon the first day I attended, and even got a signed print from him! I’d wondered if he was going to be there at Dana’s QnA and forgot to ask him about it, but of course he was. There was no way he wasn’t going to be.

Going back to the question, Dana decided she’d want everyone to be voiced by Zeno. But in all seriousness, Dana said she wasn’t allowed to answer that question.

If Dana hadn’t made TOH through Disney, was there a specific plotline she wanted in the show that couldn’t be added or was axed because of “the rat”? Dana would’ve loved to explore the Bat Queen’s arc (talk about good timing with the prior question mentioning Rosalini, which Dana acknowledged) and had a whole thing planned, it was going to be very sweet and somber. Dana loves drawing the Bat Queen. But when they had to cut down plotlines, BQ unfortunately had to be cut.

Dana’s reaction to the internet’s reaction to various TOH developments wasn’t a specific one; Her stomach was always in a knot whenever an episode dropped, and she and some of the crew would watch the comment section on the sides of livestreams. It was always stressful, even if overwhelmingly positive; Zeno could relate.

Zeno mentioned how when an artist gives so much of themselves, the art is never finished in their eyes; They could’ve always done this, or added this thing. (“It was like 90% there” Dana concurred). It’s the most presentable version within the time constraint they’re given, but sometimes it’s never like that 100% finished product one wished they had, so it’s tough as an artist to look at something objectively because you just don’t get why everyone likes it. Zeno sometimes re-listens to his Hunter audition, which Dana found so good, and wonder how he got cast. Dana clarified it was the part where Zeno freaked out.

(Can I say how much we take for granted as fans that we can always, at our leisure, go back to update and improve our own works? Or take as long as we need to create the best version of something, without any deadlines to meet?)

If there was a full S3, Dana confirmed to Zeno he would’ve voiced every single hypothetical Grimwalker, and that they would’ve alluded more to Darius’ mentor, talked about it more plainly for sure. Dana joked about doing it in a S4, but also clarified that would never be in the cards… Supplementary materials on the other hand!!!

Zeno mentioned wanting to see an exploration into the past of Hunter and the prior Golden Guards, and their connection to Caleb and Belos; Like a single graphic novel, Dana concurred, as there’s so many storylines in TOH that would make awesome TOH one-shot comics. She joked to Zeno about it being time to pitch spin-offs, with Zeno replying it’s been enough time.

When coming up with the magic system for TOH and how it contributed to the characters, and what her inspirations were, Dana explained it all stemmed from the basic idea that Luz herself can’t do it; Everyone else around her can do it so easily, with a literal flick of their wrist. Luz has to work extra-hard in drawing the complicated designs each time and remembering them, learning how to combine them in different ways, and the worst part, finding them in the first place, which Luz didn’t even know she had to do at first.

So it might not have been the most elegant place to begin building a magic system, in Dana’s words (if she could go back and redo it, she’d have some better solutions to some walls they ran into), but for her any kind of system, be it worldbuilding or magic, has to start with how it affects the main character, why it affects the main character, what’s the purpose of the system in the first place.

In regard to the (leaked!!!!) pitch bible, which Dana was chill about, there are a lot of things she wished she’d kept from it; The main thing she learned as a first-time showrunner was that she needed to stick to her gut more. She had to trust her instincts more, because if she didn’t like what she’s doing or the suggestions being made, then she’s going to have a miserable time for the next four years.

One of the changes Dana did like was Lilith going from Hexside’s principal to head of the Emperor’s Coven; Being a principal just wasn’t as exciting as being behind enemy lines. Plus we got to see her fall from grace, which was really funny for Dana (same here for me). It’s tough; One needs to learn to stick to what they love, but also learn not to be precious(?) at the same time, because new and better ideas come all the time, and one needs to learn to let go of old things to embrace the new and cool things. At the same time! You need to learn how to see what’s unnecessary, and stick to an older idea; It’s a balance.

(I feel this one a lot with GEverse.)

Dana can’t clarify on how many KoG episodes there will be, just that the pilot is in production.

Dana has taken inspiration from artists such as Tatsuyuki Tanaka, who she’d murder to draw like; She was just looking at some of his works before arriving to Weebcon. Hieronymous Bosch was a huge inspiration for TOH, though she doesn’t necessarily want to draw like him; She still derives from him. She loves Naoki Urasawa, and Dana and Zeno love his Pluto, which makes Dana cry everytime she reads it; She admires Urasawa so much as an artist and storyteller. He’s one of her top favorites ever.

What’s the deal with Hooty and the Titan? It was a symbiotic relationship. Worms are a type of parasite.

Dana would’ve loved to put a scene in S3 (it was one of her original ideas for it!) building off of how Belos tried to manipulate Luz in King’s Tide on the basis of her being human like him and so he’s trying to “help” her; She wanted to make that moment so much more longer and manipulative by setting a scene in an autumnal forest, where the leaves are falling, it’s quiet and serene and creepy, and Luz and Belos are speaking about their experiences with death.

With Luz it was her father Manny, with Belos it’s his brother Caleb; Obviously, it’s very different circumstances, with Luz pointing out her father died. Belos killed Caleb. Them having a very intense conversation was something Dana always wanted to do, and she’s so sad she never got to do it.

(To go on a tangent, I find this fascinating for obvious reasons, and I think the writers managed to somewhat adapt the concept into the final episode? There’s the parallels in Belos bringing up their similarities as “witch hunters” in order to gaslight Luz, as well as his Woe Is Me schtick about Caleb, only for Luz to shut it down with the very blatant point that Belos murdered Caleb, he brought that entire situation upon himself!

In general, the parallels still manage to speak for themselves, so you can feel them shadow that canon callout by Luz. So even if the exact idea didn’t go through, I think the spirit of the contrast between these two deaths that motivate Hero and Villain in opposite ways, because of opposite roles they played, culminates in Luz having every right to call out Belos’ hypocrisy, as the theme of Death asserts itself before the Collector learns later on.)

If TOH was given a PG-13 rating and Dana could insert one F-bomb, she deliberated on either Hooty or Eda saying it; It would take her so long to figure out where in the show. Perhaps if Hooty met Belos, he’d say it there.

The final question: How much does an actor know about a character when coming into an audition, and how long have they known that information prior to the audition? According to Zeno, usually there’s a description and a bit of what the character is about, maybe there’s a bit on their arc. Sometimes productions are incredibly detailed, or just detailed enough. Sometimes he gets a basic idea of a character’s trajectory, their traits and inspirations, other times it’s just the main personality traits and what they like; You usually know what you need to know, and not much more than that.

For example, Zeno didn’t know Hunter’s real name when he auditioned; He was just the Golden Guard, with Dana explaining they were being very cagey about his name, not sure of how much they could put out about him. Zeno saw his face and five lines, but one can infer things from lines; It can provide more insight into personality than the description itself.

All in all, it's surreal to not only be in one of these Q&As, but to have recorded it myself, rewatch my own recording as I transcribe, summarize, and analyze as I normally do, and even get to ask a question myself! It was difficult figuring out which question to ask, though it appears some got away with two, but alas I was shy about appearing greedy. I suppose I overthought it, and in the end everyone who lined up got to say theirs! I guess one could say I didn't actually get my question answered after all; But if I get the fortune of another chance, I'll try something different, both as a question and potentially a drawing request! If fate deems it so.

#The Owl House #Dana Terrace #Zeno Robinson #Weebcon #Weebcon 2025 #Luz Noceda #The Owl House Collector #The Owl House Bat Queen #The Owl House Hooty #Knights of Guinevere #Emperor Belos #Philip Wittebane #PSA #Youtube

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seilnakyle · 9 months ago

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Batman: Wayne Family Adventures - (s3) ep. 127 Oracle

“Knowledge is meant to be shared, not controlled. That’s how we build a better world. That’s why I sit behind a screen.”

#barbara gordon #oracle #wfa #wayne family adventures #batman #batmanedit #dc comics #batman wayne family adventures #comic panels #dcedit #comicedit #dc*#batgirl #my edit

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kikilovetta2395 · 5 months ago

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Weird Dream concept writing idea.

Danny and Co. Find out that a ghostly artifact was being auctioned in Gotham, and to prevent it from landing in the wrong hands, they decide to perform a heist. At the same time, Constantine asked the bats to retrieve said artifacts, something to do with a request from a powerful entity. The owner apparently is someone of interest (mob family or criminal). The first attempt failed, so a heist is also planned. Que Spy vs Spy shenanigans.

-Tucker having a hacker fight against Oracle or Red Robin.

- Sam magic battle against Constantine.

Danny is playing distraction as Ellie asconds with Artifac.

Edit: I just recalled the dream, and it was the same as the one from Leverage s3 e7. "The two live crew job". Mostly due to the hacker battle scene:

Tucker: (Voice modulated) I got the cameras!

Oracle: No I got the cameras and the sensors

Tucker: No, I got the cameras, the sensors, and le gasp... I got the lasers~

#wierd shit I dream #danny phantom #fanfic #can not do this #I already have three inprogress #do me the favor #i think this is from leverage episode #dpxdc

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rappaccini · 2 months ago

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... ok. yellowjackets s3 ended. the fandom's dying down. so i'm gonna say a bit i've been thinking about for a while regarding the elephant in the room.

yellowjackets has a lot of influences. greek mythology. lord of the flies. the andes flight disaster. the natural behavior of the yellowjacket insect. and windigos.

the fandom has combed over all those influences and written great (and sometimes dumb) meta about each... except for the last one.

the gist is: someone brings up that this show is strongly inspired by windigo mythology, someone else says 'well that's disrespectful and offensive, and the writers Would Never and you're disrespectful for implying they would', everyone dogpiles onto the first person until they stop bringing it up, the moderators of the yellowjackets subreddit instantly erase all discussion of it like they did with this post which is why i'm rewriting it here, rinse and repeat.

the fandom's still stuck on the question of whether the writers would appropriate the windigo myth, which is pointless because they already did. and the fandom will not talk about it. but we have to, because we've been there since the pilot and we never left.

mandatory disclaimer: the writers of a piece of fiction you like can do something in it that you don't like, including (and especially) problematic and potentially racist things. a great piece of art can still have elements in it with serious issues. instead of pretending those issues don't exist, talking about them is a more useful way to figure out what to do with them.

got it?

alright. now don't be like coach martinez and strap in:

the antlered shaman

first, on a superficial level, the leader of the wilderness cult (named 'antler queen' by the fans, but referred to in the pilot script as the 'shaman' and a certain piece of concept art as the 'wilderness cult leader/oracle') wears antlers.

... why?

deer aren't apex predators so it isn't a commentary on the food chain. if it were, the leader of the feast would be dressed as a wolf, cougar, bear or other large predator from the area.

only male deer have antlers in winter so it isn't a statement on gendered power. otherwise travis would be the 'antler king', the feast would be in summer (when female deer do look like that) or the oracle's costume would be invoking a powerful animal with a female-dominated social structure or biology.

the most important animal to the girls, the mascot of their team, the title of the series, and the inspiration for a lot of the show's social dynamics and plot points isn't the deer. it's the yellowjacket:

it's aggressive, predatory and highly territorial: the girls menace each other and kill the hikers.

it's matriarchal and lives in an almost entirely female society: men have no power whatsoever in the group the moment they land.

males are only tolerated as sexual prospects at the fringes: travis is the only male who survives, mostly by being the boyfriend.

it's cannibalistic: ....

it emerges from hibernation in the spring: the girls are highly active in season 3 after mostly resting indoors through winter. lottie 'awakens' from her medication after the crash, in late spring.

its nest is created by a single queen: jackie wanted to stay in the plane, where she initially held influence. lottie discovers the cabin, where she rules. nat arranges the building of the village, where she rules.

that single queen incubates her eggs over the winter: ... shauna's pregnancy.

a new queen emerges after every season: season 1's jackie, season 2's lottie, season 3's nat, season 4's shauna.

it nests underground, but also in attics: oh look, lottie's first big delusion occurs in an attic. oh look, a cave where they spend a lot of time, and will probably start living.

only the queen gets to breed: jackie has sex with travis, lottie's show of power as she takes charge is initiating a group sexual assault attempt against him and literally telling jackie he no longer belongs to her (and travis starts becoming attracted to her while she's in charge), natalie is the only person who maintains a romantic relationship with him as she rises to power and as soon as they're broken up she starts losing influence, shauna gives fucking birth and that is used as proof that she should lead.

wasps eat rotten fruit, which intoxicates them and makes them aggressive in late summer: doomcoming.

burning its nest is a way people assume you can dispose of it but if it survives, it becomes even more aggressive: ... oh look, their cabin is burned down, s2's editing makes it seem like it was ben, and the girls haaaaate him for it.

it does not make sense that the power animal their leader is drawn to is a deer.

... unless you consider that the westernized windigo is a creature with deer antlers.

yes i said westernized. yes, the windigo is a part of algonquian folklore, and the only reason people think 'antlers' when they think of windigos is that horror director larry fessenden slapped them on the windigo in his horror movie (2001's wendigo) to make it more scary by making it look like the western depiction of a devil or demon through giving it 'horns'.

(it's barely onscreen but the damage was done.)

yes it's shitty that this inaccurate image created by a white guy who didn't care about faithfully depicting a being important to an indigenous culture is now the popular consensus on what it looks like.

fessenden seems to have regretted that, because in 2015 when he wrote (and starred in!) a little video game called until dawn, the windigos there are far more faithful to the original myths.

(tall, pale, emaciated, cold beings that move eerily quickly; with one particular windigo, makkapitew, even given an algonquin name that translates to "one who has big teeth"... but even then, there are inaccuracies. idk where the movement-triggered vision came from.)

credit where credit's due: he tried to fix his fuck-up.

but the horse is out of the barn. everyone thinks that a windigo is an emaciated person with the head of a deer now (because 1)... fine, it does look cool. and 2) a westernized, white-dominated culture is going to resonate more with the creature having antlers, because of its resemblance to the christian devil or the greek god pan). the depiction won't stop spreading so that's what it has become.

when the yellowjackets writers were first conceptualizing this story, they started by wanting to write a lord of the flies-style survival horror story about cannibalistic teenage girls, and to make it a riff on the 1972 uruguayan rugby team's plane crash in the andes. when they decided their plane full of americans would be stranded in the mountains, the only mountain range they could have used was the rockies. they definitely came across this myth while they were doing research on cannibalism and that area.

'cannibals in the far north of north america during winter' instantly evokes a certain kind of legend. same thing as 'undead nocturnal blood-drinker in eastern europe' or 'reanimated corpse in the caribbean.' i never said ‘vampire’ or ‘zombie’ but you absolutely thought of them when you read the context because those myths are ubiquitous with those ideas. because that's what myths are for: cultures create them to make sense of phenomena that are unique to them. the windigo is unavoidable. they would have learned about it as they developed this show.

and when they did, they would have come across an image of a tall, pale cannibalistic being with antlers in the dead of winter.

that is why we have an antler queen.

and the influence is absolutely coming from outside of the story. the yellowjackets can't be deciding to invoke the windigo with the shaman's outfit, because the antlered windigo quite literally was not a concept until 2001, five years after the girls' rescue. it's clearly the crew letting their influence show.

(side note: in the pilot script, on page 62, our only description of the shaman is that she's "masked and horned." who even knows how soon the antlers entered the picture. it might have been the wardrobe dept's idea. if it was, same situation. their research brought them to the windigo.)

beyond that, the windigo myth has more to it than just the general concept of cannibals in winter and that inaccurate image. it's considered to be both a supernatural and psychological/rational phenomenon. both are represented in the plot and characterization of yellowjackets.

supernatural

myths and folklore are meant to explain important aspects of the cultures that conceive them. the windigo myth is specifically concerned with the cultural ideal of the danger of self interest during a dire situation-- particularly with what could happen if selfish or irresponsible leaders take the reins in winter specifically: a descent into disorder, violence, starvation, chaos, death and ultimately cannibalism as a result of poor leadership, resource mismanagement and the breakdown of the social order at a time when the climate's most hostile and it's crucial to huddle together and follow a wise leader.

... what happens when lottie starts pushing her hallucinations on everyone and insisting they're signs from a higher power that has chosen her as its conduit as winter sets in?

when coach ben checks out, won't help shauna during childbirth, and abandons his girls as their house burns down? (... and may or may not have started the fire?)

... when the very first act of cannibalism in the show has its roots in everyone, and shauna most of all, acting out of selfishness and violating social norms: eating a human corpse in a frenzy like a pack of wild animals. botching a burial so bad it becomes a bbq. the person responsible for rationing the food supply secretly eating forbidden meat as the group goes hungry. keeping a corpse around and playing with it. letting a member of the group sleep outside in the elements and never bothering to get her. the homecoming queen’s lower-ranked friend winning an argument and getting to stay inside. even sleeping with jackie's boyfriend in the first place violates their friendship and the high school social hierarchy.

when the second act of cannibalism occurs as a result of travis violating a fair, unrigged lottery that everyone agreed to and choosing to save his girlfriend instead of feeding the group-- and everyone but natalie especially choosing to allow a child to drown so she can live?

when the third act of cannibalism happens right as the weather turns cold because shauna wants to indulge her power over the group and humiliate natalie?

when shauna and lottie ruin the group's chance at rescue because they want to force the group to stay and bear witness to how special they are?

when the one sane adult in the group earns her place by murdering their only way out to remain in a dangerous and unqualified leader's good graces, snow falls right away and she becomes a cannibal one episode later?

when the fourth act of cannibalism is the result of a clusterfuck of selfish grudges (mel wants to kill shauna), ego trips (shauna and lottie want to feel special), personal preference (gen doesn't want her apparantly-super-close-friend mari to get eaten, van and tai want to ensure someone they don’t care about is the victim), the waste of resources (killing the livestock) and distraction (the escape plan).

furthermore, we've seen all the ways people are purported to turn into windigos in traditional folklore represented in the plot.

being overcome by greed and a hunger to do violence: everyone acts this way at some point. particularly, lottie in season 1 and shauna in season 3.

consuming human flesh: everyone does it but ben and javi, who are ostracized and eaten.

even just being in proximity to windigos is considered enough: and shauna and lottie's behavior becomes a social contagion. the closer characters are to them, the worse they become.

small details that also fit: the windigo is considered to be a gaunt, swift, terrible-smelling creature. all the girls are malnourished, came to the wilderness as elite athletes (... with shauna singled out as the fastest, lottie having the best footwork and taissa being the best overall athlete), and they fucking reek by now.

... and the windigo is typically considered to be very tall. it isn't a coincidence that the actress who plays lottie towers over most of the cast.

and at least in season 1, she was absolutely intended to be the shaman/antler queen. of all the girls she was the one framed most consistently beneath and in front of antlers, her doomcoming outfit is the first time we see the antler veil and long white silhouette, she initiates and goads on the first approximation of a sacrificial hunt and is only stopped when natalie and jackie intervene, we end season 1 with an obvious setup of lottie as the villain kidnapping natalie in the present and vowing to shed blood and let the darkness set us free in the past as she sacrifices a heart, and the wardrobe designer labeled lottie as the person wearing the oracle/aq outfit in a production still she shared post-season 1.

… it was lottie. aq/shaman/oracle was played by a stuntwoman in the pilot, and a whole year passed between its filming and the rest of season 1 due to covid, so things definitely shifted during that time... but the identity of the oracle was still consistent.

then the show unexpectedly became a hotbed for mystery box lovers, the oracle became the antler queen and her identity became such a draw that the writers pivoted away from confirming the clear frontrunner to extend the mystery. thus season 2 lottie suddenly lost the sinister qualities we were promised.

and, tangent: the antler queen evolved from a shaman into a queen as the girl under the veil changed from lottie to shauna.

on page 62 in the pilot script linked earlier, the shaman has an "unspoken agreement" with a character labeled the overseer before she initiates the feast. this is the girl to her immediate left who she nods at before the feast begins in the pilot, who is the second person who follows her after the feast is complete. who in the pilot script, is commanding the butchering of pit girl (called the runner in the script).

(the overseer's the figure to the far right in this still. she is later revealed to be misty on-page... but isn't misty in the actual episode. misty's role in the group switched between script and shooting and she took on the meat-carving/serving duties reserved in the script for a character called the butcher. odds are the writers just streamlined those two very similar roles a bit to make their ranks more distinct.

and i think you can guess the butcher was shauna, because it's stayed the same all along.)

in the pilot-- script and episode-- it's not even clear if the shaman is an actual queen in full control of the group, or if her authority is shared with or lesser than that of the overseer. there's a reason the overseer is called the overseer, that the shaman looks to her for approval, that she follows her out of the feast first, and that the script makes a point to say that their silent exchange is something "we don't yet understand."

the antlered shaman wasn't an absolute tyrant. she had a partner, and they worked together to control the group. the shaman was the ceremonial and spiritual leader, and the overseer did the dirty work of intimidating the followers (called acolytes in the pilot) and handling the butchering.

the fandom missed this, assumed the oracle was the absolute leader-- the queen-- and the 'antler queen' was born in the fandom. and then the shaman evolved to fall closer in line with those expectations because the writers got too online: now the girl who wears the antler crown is a dictator and the shaman is still present, but definitely below her in rank.

you can see the vestiges of the oracle-and-overseer dynamic still in lottie and shauna's eventual roles (shottie best ship). their roles and arcs have probably stayed the same since the early days of the show's development-- just look at how they work together during doomcoming, and how they're not coincidentally the two characters with the most windigo traits throughout the show.

for all intents and purposes, in the past, lottie and shauna just switched outfits and spots around the bonfire. (and juliette lewis's abrupt departure caused an overhaul of the adult timeline into... whatever it is now.)

tangent over.

rational

it goes deeper. windigos are now arguably part of psychology too.

wendigo psychosis is a proposed (but not proven) psychological, possible sociological condition with all its factors represented in the show:

location: this is restricted to people in the northwoods of north america, where the yellowjackets crashed. and to indigenous communities in particular, but we’re already appropriating so… well.

symptoms: hallucinations. everyone, none more than lottie. its thought this condition may be a way of understanding mental illnesses like schizophrenia or did. not a coincidence that lottie is schizophrenic or that taissa has a fugue personality.

symptoms: agitation and anxiety. everyone.

symptoms: violent outbursts. everyone.

symptoms: cravings for human flesh (everyone) or strange substances (... tai eating dirt, anyone?)

symptoms: a belief that one is being possessed by a malevolent force ("it's already in you?" / the seance’s french ghost/ lottie insisting that she-- and then later nat, travis, akilah and shauna-- speaks for the wilderness?)

contributing factor - intense trauma: the girls are starving in the wilderness after surviving a plane crash and many landed already with trauma from home.

contributing factor - substance abuse: oh look, the girls are getting high on psychotropic mushrooms, huffing cave gas and drinking fermented berry wine and polluted water.

and guys? the ethnographer who wrote a lot of foundational texts about wendigo psychosis is named lottie chicogquaw marsden. not a coincidence that the girl who leads the group deeper into mass psychosis/has come under the thrall of an entity is named lottie matthews and played by an indigenous (maori) actress.

(... but not an indigenous american actress, because again. it's a white creative team appropriating a culture they don't belong to. the horse is out of the barn.)

one of the central mysteries driving yellowjackets is the question of whether the girls are being driven by a supernatural force or mass psychosis. the windigo straddles both. either the writers discovered the myth while searching for inspiration that could do just that... or they worked that theme into the show because they found the windigo first.

cabin guy tangent

we still don't know what happened with him. probably never will.

we do know that…

he's isolated in the mountainous northwoods, and he wintered there. he's in the right place.

his cabin reeked when the girls found it. he smells like a windigo.

he's found a skeletal shell of himself. so he looks like a windigo.

he has hard liquor stashed away. substances.

he is first glimpsed in jackie's dying hallucination as she freezes to death. association with hallucination and the cold? check, check.

he's found inside a circle created by carved symbols, which is itself within a larger symbol created by the symbols carved throughout the area. the girls hold a seance to contact him, and lottie is 'possessed' then. possession, check.

it's ambiguous if he died sealing a spirit in that circle with him (which then leapt into lottie), or if his own mental illness led him to suicide. natural vs supernatural.

there's something else: documented cases of windigo psychosis often include men killing and cannibalizing loved ones. we don't know what's up with cabin guy, but we know it was planned that he had a child, and in a deleted scene from season 2 episode 7, still visible in the script (page 23), we learn he was married, had a wife at the cabin who kept a journal (... like shauna), and that their baby died (like shauna’s) and she attributes the loss to the will of the wilderness (... like the group does.)

yet there's only his body by the time the girls find the cabin... and there are no baby supplies (or women’s clothing) in the cabin.

where are the other people? what happened to them? why does it seem like they didn't plan to have a kid in the woods and/or that cabin guy erased all evidence of one? how did he end up in that attic on his own and what drove him to die like that? why did this entire plotline get cut from season 2? what about it did the showrunners decide they shouldn't reveal?

and remember that deerskull head depiction of the wendigo? remember what book ben and misty were reading that cabin guy left behind?

oh, right. it's a copy of the magus by john fowles.

and of all the covers they could have chosen, what do the set designers pick?

... a horned skull head. hmmm.

windigos in literature

beyond that tiny tease on the cover, yellowjackets also makes direct references to windigo literature in several prominent places.

algernon blackwood's 1910 short story the wendigo is about a young man who disappears from his campsite in winter, then returns some time later Eerily Different, being haunted/possessed by the spirit. javi's vanishing and return is such a reference to that, and there are shades of it in tai's nighttime wanderings.

and one of the most famous pieces of cannibal literature is lawrence macmillan's 'at the end of the world: a true story of murders in the arctic'— which has a famous line about the death of the last windigo in the face of modern progress.

“The last wendigo died in 1962, or so the story goes. Reputedly, he (it?) stood in front of the train to Churchill, Manitoba, believing that the train would stop for him, a supernatural being, and then he would be able to eat the passengers. The train ran him over. Sic transit gloria mundi.”

'sic transit gloria mundi' is the name of the season one finale, where jackie, another supposedly powerful figure according to old cultural norms (the high school pecking order) is convinced those norms are enough to win her argument with shauna, be invited back into the fold, given a food she'd now consider a gluttonous indulgence and make her the beloved queen bee again. then she dies a cold lonely death because that's not their world anymore and she refuses to accept it. just like the windigo in that story.

not a coincidence.

(yes, it's what's said when the pope dies and a new one is appointed. yes, yj has that "who created the pope" line in the pilot and in episode 10 jackie dies and lottie, who sees herself as a religious figure, takes leadership. the show is multitasking.)

it's a windigo story.

yellowjackets isn't necessarily about windigos but it is a windigo story, inspired by windigos in every aspect: in concept, in aesthetic, in major plot points and social dynamics, in the supernatural vs rational debate, in the girls who are in the running to become the shaman-and-overseer who became the wilderness cult leader/oracle who became the antler queen.

it's everywhere. it's still there even years after the show evolved and switched gears several times and several waves of the fandom saying 'that would be offensive, don't do it.'

they did. they already did.

the creators appropriated the whitewashed pop culture windigo, its indigenous origins and the controversial psychosocial phenomenon— and they removed it from its original cultural context to use it to tell a story about a group of mostly-white girls and no member of the culture the spirit belongs to.

they're just avoiding saying the word out loud and they probably won't because if they tapped into their fandom enough to start shaking up major plot points and retooling their main antagonist to make her more like what the fandom wanted her to be, they definitely know saying what they're doing will piss it off. but not saying it doesn't change that they're absolutely doing it.

i'm not saying they're right or wrong. i'm not saying they're being racist or respectful (or that you are if you do or do not like this).

i'm just saying: it happened. and it's still happening. and acknowledging that will be more useful when we discuss what this show is and is trying to be. because, like it or not, without the windigo, yellowjackets wouldn't exist or would be unrecognizable.

one more time: the writers of a piece of fiction you like can do something in it that you don't like, including (and especially) problematic and potentially racist things. a great piece of art can have flaws or questionable aspects and it can still be great. ignoring those things will not fix them or make them go away.

#yellowjackets #yellowjackets meta #shauna shipman #lottie matthews #yellowjackets crit #taissa turner #natalie scatorccio #travis martinez #jackie taylor #misty quigley

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elysiality · 2 months ago

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The Yellowjackets as Greek Demigods

wow this is niche anyway-

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LOTTIE MATTHEWS — Daughter of Phoebe, Titan Goddess of Intellect And Prophecy.

this one is pretty much self-explanatory, my little prophet <3 Phoebe was the Titan who gifted Apollo with the ability to prophesize, giving existence to the Oracle of Delphi. I'm saying that Lottie would be her daughter because she doesn't really give child of Apollo vibes? Like— she's too mystique to be a child of Apollo and the Oracle of Delphi cannot have children so Phoebe it is.

Alternative parents— Hecate (Titan Goddess of Witchcraft), Gaia (The Earth), Janus (God of Choices), Pan (God of the Wild). Also possibly Psyche (Goddess of Compassion and Human Suffering).

SHAUNA SHIPMAN — Daughter of Nemesis, Goddess of Balance and Revenge.

Most people would probably shove Shauna (esp S3 Shauna) into the children of Ares, but I personally don't think Shauna has the natural spite to be a child of Ares— at least not all the time. Most of her actions are things she does in retaliation to what someone else does, often in revenge, so I think she'd be a daughter of Nemesis.

Alternative parents— Ares (God of War), Momus (God of Blame), Eris (Goddess of Strife and Discord).

JACKIE TAYLOR — Daughter of Nike, Goddess of Victory, Charioteer of Zeus.

Again, pretty self explanatory. Jackie's entire life revolved around staying on top— being the golden girl, having a popular boyfriend, being captain of her soccer team, etc. She's very competitive as we saw in season one where they were taking turns trying out the gun and hates giving up control. So I think she'd be a daughter of Nike.

Alternative parents— Tyche (Goddess of Fate and Fortune), Khione (Goddess of Winter), Aphrodite (Goddess of Love and Beauty). Also maybe Hebe (Goddess of Youth) since my girl kinda peaked in high school.

MISTY QUIGLEY — Daughter of Prometheus, Titan God of Forethought, Fire and Knowledge.

Misty is the most pragmatic of the group (which is a low, looooww bar) . She's the one who's the most intellectual among the Yellowjackets and often gives the group the most valuable information and is then ostracised for it (See: Prometheus giving man fire). Prometheus was also known to be mischievous at times, which fits right in with our lil chaos gremlin.

Alternative parents— Dionysus (God of Wine and Chaos), Athena (Goddess of Warfare and Knowledge), Eris (Goddess of Strife and Discord), Apollo (God of Music, the Sun, and Healing).

NATALIE SCATORCCIO — Daughter of Psyche, Goddess of Compassion and Human Suffering.

Again, need I explain more? Nat is arguably one of the ones who took it the hardest when the plane crashed. Her entire life has been one gigantic kick the dog moment, right up to her death. Her dad was abusive and died when she was young, her mom wasn't really involved, she grew up in poverty, she did drugs in high school— she only really felt herself with the Yellowjackets and Travis, and had that taken from her too. Apart from that, she is also one of the most empathetic, right down to her mercy killing of Coach Scott.

Alternative parents— Khione (Goddess of Snow), Thanatos (God of Peaceful Death), Melinoë (Goddess of Ghosts, Madness and Liminal space).

TAISSA TURNER — Daughter of Philotes, Goddess of Affection and Friendship.

Was debating between Anteros and Philotes, but I went with Philotes in the end. Tai (whether intentionally or not) always keeps the group together (we don't count Allie). She was the one most disgusted with what they did to Jackie and also kinda the peacekeeper. The only survivor to have good relationships with all the rest of the survivors.

Alternative parents— Anteros (Erote of Requited Love), Harmonia (Goddess of Harmony), Ananke (Goddess of Inevitability and Fate), Selene (The Moon). Hunter of Artemis, possibly.

VAN PALMER — Daughter of Apollo, God of the Sun, Music and Poetry, blessed by the Nine Muses.

Sooo obvious, I didn't even have to think. Van is good cheer and empathy. She likes storytelling, media, all that sort of thing, which ties up with Apollo's poetry aspect. She's literally the sun to Tai's moon (especially other Tai). I say blessed by the Nine Muses since they all represent different aspects of scholarly nature and story-telling, which is so Van. It's also good to note that Apollo was also tied up with prophecy, and Van was one of the girls most devoted to Lottie and who believed in her the most.

Alternative parents— the Nine Muses, Peitho (Goddess of Persuasion and Trust), Aphrodite Philia (the Platonic Love aspect of Aphrodite), Hebe (Goddess of Youth), Eos (Goddess of Dawn).

TRAVIS MARTINEZ — Son of Styx, The River of Oaths and Resentment, located in the Underworld.

Hear me out on this one— Travis as a son of the river nymph of the Styx. He carries around unspoken grief that he tries to forget but never can. He resents but is fiercely loyal to everyone he loves, trying to get revenge for them even after they've died (Javi). He makes promises he tries to keep but can't, which is ironic since he's the son of a river meant to hold bonds fast.

Alternative parents— the River Lethe (Oblivion and Forgetting), Thanatos (God of Peaceful Death), Ares (God of War), Hephaestus (God of Fire, Forging and Rejection).

AKILAH — Daughter of Demeter, Goddess of Harvests and Seasons.

the animals. her connection to the wilderness. need I explain any more?

alternative parents— Pan (God of the Wilderness), Gaia (The Earth), Apollo (God of the Sun and Healing).

MARI IBARRA — Daughter of Eros, God of Love and Physical Attraction.

she's hot.

alternative parents— Aphrodite (Goddess of Love), Hebe (Goddess of Youth), Nemesis (Goddess of Revenge).

HONOURABLE MENTIONS !! :

Javi — Son of Hebe, Goddess of Youth.

Gen — Daughter of Asclepius, God of Medicine.

Melissa — I've stopped caring much about her but I'd say Anteros, God of Unrequited Love.

Callie — Daughter of Shauna so by extension, Nemesis, Goddess of Balance and Revenge. I'd go with Nemesis for her separately as well. Maybe even Hecate, Goddess of Witchcraft and Crossroads.

a/n: Mb I'll write an x reader fic if one of y'all send in a req who knows.... (This is a plea. Also, this would eat as a dark romance.)

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iloveundertaesooomuch · 1 year ago

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!!THIS IS NOT CALEB!!

This is my version of the FTF Grimwalker that got possessed by Belos and then was resurected on GrimIsles!

His name is Cheese! ...Bear with me here-

His grimwalker siblings let him to choose his own name, because they didn't want to force something so important onto him. Especially when this "newcomer" was lucky enough to not be named by Belos. So the freedom of choice felt pretty important to consider for his ability to built his own identity and carve his own destiny.

But.. Cheese was litteraly "born yesterday" and he didnt understand the language yet. At all. So, of course, when he started to learn some words, he chose to identify himself with something he really really likes. And.. this thing he related to happened to be a block of yellow dairy product with holes in it and a funny taste. He is too much of a cheese lover.

Later on he often "changed his name" from Cheese to Onion to Gerald to Boot to Nike... Uhhh..., it was difficult to say the least. But the name Cheese stuck with others, so now it is how he is called. Although many end up pronouncing it as "Chez", which is valid too.

As you can see on my art, Cheese doesn't have his legs rotting like the body in the s3 ep2. Thats because it was part of his "mortal wound". In otherwords, Chez wouldn't be able to live with parts damaged like that. Usually all that left after the person's "mortal wound" after the resurection in the temple is a small light scar. But, even if Cheese got his body fully in tact now, the bottom part of his body nonetheless seems to be paralised. Thats why he requires a wheelchair to move around the Isles. (I wont deny the possibility of him getting a jetpack or something like that so he could move thought the air on his "loyal carriage". Imagine that vine video but with Cheese. He would be very enthusiastic about creating and building shit like that.) Chez also happens to be mute due to his damaged throat and vocal chords also from Belos'es possession. Thats why he has that little oracle stone on his hair-clip that helps him speak his thoughts out loud! He wasn't always able to use it, so he was also taught how to use sign language. His siblings were glad to learn it along with Cheese so they could finally chat.

I was initially imagining Cheese to be enthusiastic about sports. Especially since the grimwalker body in FTF looked quite buff weirdly enough XD. But he slowly grows to be much more than "CHEESE IS SPEED". Perharps our discovery of him as a character reflects his own journey of getting to know himself. Chez came to be as a blank slate. I guess he is technocally the happiest grimwalker in this AU, since he never experience any kind of abuse and has a loving family that treats him with respect even if he doesn't understand everything yet.

It was my first time drawing a wheelchair I think. So I really heavily referenced just to get its structure right. Maybe when I draw Chez again I will decorate it to his liking. He would probably enjoy some stickers on it. Especially of space and ships. Or Cheese could have a Starwars (or however that franchise is called in TOH universe) merch on it! He likes spaces, because it is full of infinite possibilities.

Thank you, @crypticpara and @talisman975 for inspiration!

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ryin-silverfish · 11 months ago

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LMK S5 Fix-it: the Four Divine Beasts

My feeling on LMK S5 has stayed pretty consistent after first watching the Chinese dub: "nice character moments, but what even is this worldbuilding?"

And personally, the Four Divine Beasts/Guardians/Symbols are the biggest symptom of S5's worldbuilding problem.

Namely, they feel more like plot devices that are just there to die and cough up the Color Stones, and as a result, 4/5 of the "Find the Color Stone" plotline felt like a worse version of S3 and the Samadhi Rings, but with even less flavor.

Now, I'm aware of the 11-minute episode constraint, as well as the pressure the studio change might have created that contributed to the overall feeling of rushed-ness.

However, my criticism here is about the writing and worldbuilding, not the animation quality——things that, in my humble and uneducated opinion, could have been done a lot better even if we were sticking to the "Find the McGuffins" plotline.

Thus, this post. As always: very lengthy, very Chinese-mythos inspired.

Four Guardians & Five Phases

A brief Google Search on the Four Symbols, aka Sixiang, will tell you this: the Azure Dragon, White Tiger, Vermillion Bird and Black Tortoise are divine beasts in Chinese mythology that watch over the four directions, each associated with a color and one of the Five Phases.

(An old post of mine briefly talked about their origins as personifications of four big constellations that occupy a quadrant of the sky each, and their relations to the 28 Lunar Mansions)

And S5 certainly paid homage to their elemental associations, however brief and surface-level it is.

The Vermillion Bird's ability to use fire and its flaming temple is the most notable example, but this screenshot of the seal that appeared at the temple entrances also shows five symbols:

From middle left, going in the clockwise direction, these appear to be the characters for Wood, Water, Fire, Earth and Metal in Oracle Bone/Bronze Script.

Which begs the question...why would you spend so much effort on the tiny visual details, yet not show most of their elemental association through the narrative itself?

Like, suppose you are a foreign audience that knows nothing about Chinese culture and legends, who have just finished watching S5, and I ask you "What elemental powers do each of the Four Symbols have?"

Apart from Vermillion Bird = Fire (the obvious one) and the Black Tortoise = maybe Earth (which is not mythos-accurate, btw), can you honestly answer it, based only on what the show has given you?

Which leads me to my biggest gripe: their random-as-hell placement.

Even the Samadhi Rings have a map, however vague it is, but with the Color Stones, the gang basically just wandered all over the place in the hope of eventually running into one of the divine beasts——and they did, somehow!

Like, I'm not asking the writers for an entire mini-arc that's just them piecing the clues together. But will it be too much to let SWK or Tang make an off-hand comment like this?

"Well, legends said that the Four Symbols watch over the four directions and their respective elements. So if we wanna find them, we just gotta go real far in these directions, toward places with the most of that... elemental stuff! Right?"

And that brings me to the actual fix-it part. The Vermillion Bird can stay where she is, but the placement of the other three should also logically follow their elemental associations.

Oh, and though there's limited space for their characterization, they should at least get some individual characterization apart from "wise ancient guardians".

Xuanwu, Black Tortoise of the North

The fact that Xuanwu, or rather, it's snake half, can transform into stone at will might lead you to believe that its element is Earth.

Well...no, not traditionally; the Black Tortoise and the North correspond to Water in the Five Phases system, and I'm gonna both stick to that and build my fix-it off this foundation.

Instead of cosplaying a stone statue in the middle of nowhere, Xuanwu is gonna be residing on one of the islands in the North Sea, where dark tides and huge snow storms rage endlessly under the sunless sky.

So Sandy, being the water travel specialist, is gonna head out there on his boat. Mei would go to her great x N granduncle, Ao Guang's place, to see if he has any clues on, well, this big blue dragon that's also of the East.

Pigsy and Tang would head west, classic JTTW style, towards the mythical Mt. Kunlun where Queen Mother of the West resides (based on one of Tang's books that said the White Tiger was her emissary), while SWK performs an all-round search everywhere on his somersault cloud.

Which leaves MK: his dilemma is not about some random divergence in the road, but which of his friends to follow. Like, what if he goes with one person, and something bad happen to the others in the meantime?

In the end, even though he reluctantly goes with Sandy, he is still constantly distracted by his worries about everyone else, which segments nicely into the meditation training of S5E3.

But since they are doing it on a boat, there can be an external storm to go with the internal storm, causing further distractions for MK and also forcing them to seek shelter on the nearest island.

An island that, strangely, seems to be coated in a thin layer of ice. It isn't just the earth that's frosted over: all the plants, a few unfortunate multi-headed (???) seabirds, and a snake have also turned into ice statues...

Wait, snake? How does a reptile survive this far out in the north?

They have a bigger concern, however. The ice is slowly but steadily spreading, over the beaches and the surrounding seawater, and if they don't finish the search soon, the ice might get too thick for the boat to break.

So MK dashed off to do a grid-by grid search, then circled back to the place with all the frozen statues...and found the snake missing.

Cue, peak paranoia moment, and going on a wild-goose chase for the missing snake that might or might not be an ice-wielding demon waiting to ambush them.

In fact, the snake almost seems to be taunting them, seeing how they run into several "frozen snake statues" that turned out to be made of actual, solid ice. Sandy keeps reminding him to stop and think, while MK finds it harder and harder to put the lessons to practice.

By following the trail of ice statues, however, they eventually arrived on a little island in the middle of a frozen lake, where the real snake——the one half of Xuanwu lay coiling around the Blue Color Stone.

Just when MK is about to dash out and grab it, the snake comes to life with a hiss, and they barely dodged the ice spikes rising up from underneath their feet.

"Begone, foul spawn of Hundun! Return to thy conniving master, ilk of the Floodbringer, before I freeze every single drop of thy tainted blood!" "Um, I-I think you've mistaken me for someone else? I'm the Monkie Kid, and I'm here to collect your Color Stone so I can save the world——" "Doth thee mistake me for a fool, too?" The snake bore its fangs, rising its head high up into the air. "I can feel the flames of dear Lingguang on you, murderer, ripped straight out of its rightful owner's chest! She would not have perished without a fight, nor shalt I!" "Enough, Zhiming."

The tiny island itself begins to shake, revealing the other half of Xuanwu, the Black Tortoise itself. The snake still manages to half-encast Sandy in ice, before the Black Tortoise traps it inside a ball of flowing water.

She briefly apologized for her twin's hostility——whereas the strain of keeping the world together affects her body in the form of visible cracks, her other half has not been in his right mind ever since the Vermillion Bird's fall, living in the distant past and rarely able to perceive the present.

(The whole conversation is punctuated by the snake's psychic screeches in the background, which alternates between accusing her of betrayal and stating she must have fallen victim to the "poisonous blood of the enemy".)

Which makes the upcoming trial even more necessary. No, it's not "mercy-kill her twin". Yet. MK needs to prove his ability to control his body and mind, that his psyche will not break like her other half here under the tremendous pressure.

Thus, the trial of meditation. And he needs to act fast, for she cannot hold the snake back for long, as made evident by the slowly creeping ice inside and outside his watery prison.

"If you are truly worthy, then vanquish your fears, and stand before us in your true form. Brandish Lingguang's stone, so that we may be released from our watch in the long night."

MK succeeded, like he did in canon, with a small difference: his mastery of the monkey form is required for, and enables the limited usage of the stone's power.

So, holding the Red Color Stone, he unleashes a wave of fiery light that melts away the ice on Sandy and finally brings the snake back to his senses...somewhat.

He only managed to say the Vermillion Bird's name in a wistful voice, exclaiming "How I missed thy warm flames!" before melting into a puddle of water.

The other half of Xuanwu soon followed after giving him the stone, disintegrating into a mass of snowflakes that is swept away by the wind, but not before dropping one last bit of foreshadowing:

"Trust not the Floodbringer's Emissary."

(Sidenote: I think it'll be neat if the Four Symbols refer to each other using their IRL Daoist titles. Vermillion Bird - Lingguang, Black Tortoise & Snake - Zhiming, Azure Dragon - Mengzhang, White Tiger - Jianbing)

Azure Dragon & White Tiger

...And I thought Xuanwu's placement was random.

No, seriously, why is there a random music festival that just happens to be Azure Dragon and White Tiger themed that just happens to be near the actual place the two divine beasts are at?

To stay within the show's time constraint, I will not be giving White Tiger his individually themed placement, and instead try to come up with something that is appropriate for the pair as a whole.

Since Azure Dragon's associated element is Wood, it makes sense for him to have plant powers. Namely, whereever the divine beast resides, floras and faunas will flourish, no matter how out of place with the local geography and climate.

Once Mei learned that from Ao Guang, theoretically, it becomes quite the easy find: the mythical oasis city in western China, one that shows up multiple times in historical travel records yet has never been found by archeologists.

And the reason will soon become clear, as Tang and Pigsy make the drive from one desert city to another on their way to Mt. Kunlun (joined by Mei after she returned from the Samadhi Fire side-arc).

Namely, it's like a magical version of the famous Peach Blossom Spring of Chinese literature: an entire city that has been glamored over by the power of the divine beasts, occupied by people whose way of life hasn't changed since the Tang dynasty.

But as the guardians' powers fade, so does the illusion that veils it from the outside world, and the elemental magic that sustains this paradise.

Instead of a music festival, the gang finally discover the city that, according to the locals, has appeared out of thin air a few days ago, while it is in the middle of an archaic ritual procession.

The atmosphere is a lot more solemn, and it isn't hard to see why. Not only has the illusion vanished, exposing them to a profoundly alien world, the foliage of the oasis are growing and dying in rapid succession, clogging the streets with fallen leaves and yellowed petals.

An opera play is going on atop a nearby stage. It sings of a teal-robed immortal who rescued the refugees of a long-forgotten war, who turned desert into fertile soil with the help of a mighty divine general, concealing their existence from the greed and malice of the outside world.

The people in the procession knelt down and pleaded to the immortal for aid, to not abandon them in their hour of need. And their prayers are, indeed, answered, just not by the divine beasts in person.

The 14 Lunar Mansions that belong to the Azure Dragon and White Tiger descended from the sky, summoned by their masters, though they seemed to have been given different orders.

Namely, the Azure Dragon 7 spread out to guard all the major city gates, letting no one enter or leave, while the White Tiger 7 are ordered to round up all the residents and start setting up a teleportation formation.

Soon afterwards, Nezha arrived in the midst of the chaos. He is just as clueless as to what was going on as the Monkie Kid gang, but the moment he caught sight of SWK and friends, he's after them in hot pursuit.

Meanwhile, Li Jing is not happy about the Lunar Mansions suddenly acting without his orders, and commanded them to stand down or be arrested for insubordination.

"With all due respect, Devaraja Li——" Before the Moon Fox Star could finish her sentence, another stellar beast stepped forth, his tiger tail swishing behind him. "Who the hell do you think you are?"

Results: most of the Azure Dragon 7 get sucked into his pagoda, but while they were fighting, the White Tiger 7's formation activated, teleporting the majority of the city residents to god knows where.

While shit was hitting the fan, Tang hurriedly teleported the gang away, right into the sanctuary of the divine beasts——an underground temple.

"It's over, Mengzhang. Now that the Harbinger is on our doorsteps, and your pet mortals are safe at the cost of our loyal warriors, will you finally rest easy?" "Not...yet. There are still...stragglers, left behind." "Stragglers you have doomed yourself! Their fate is sealed the moment you cast your mirage over their ancestors and create this little utopia, frozen in time." The cracks on the tiger's body widened. A thick layer of condensation began forming on the metal reliefs, as if the very walls of the temple were weeping. "I should have never agreed to stay and help." "Yet you...still did. And I'm so glad you are here."

Yep, in this fix-it, I decide to use the Azure Dragon & White Tiger for some thematic parallels, with them basically repeating Nvwa and the Pillar of Heaven on a smaller scale.

The former created a garden city in the middle of the desert, while the latter uses his power to provide the water source that sustains the city (because Metal births Water).

As the end approaches, however, they are faced with the problem of ensuring the city residents' safety, since, upon their death, the entire oasis will revert to a desert overnight.

The White Tiger feels like there's no point in trying anything, since their death means the Harbinger will fulfill his destiny soon and give the world a reboot.

But the Azure Dragon insists on channeling his power into the land until the very last possible moment, so that the people's last memories will be a mundane, peaceful one.

Besides, they know very well that Fate and Destiny are no longer ironclad, when the very laws of reality are breaking down. How, then, can he be sure that the cycle will end and the world will be reforged as Nvwa intended, seeing that its premature beginning is already an outlier?

After a long argument, they had reached an uneasy compromise. Thus, the chaotic arrival of the Lunar Mansions and the hurried evacuation of the residents.

"You will understand, won't you, Harbinger?" The dragon looked into his eyes. "Even if you know it's selfish and futile, that you can't keep them safe forever, you are still going to give your all, just so their happy days will last a little longer..." "It is easy for Brother Jianbing to say, let go, face your end with honor. For Metal is the clashes of blades, the unforgiving axe of executioners." "I? This old fool just saw lives. Of men and women, children and elderly folks. And I cannot stand by and watch them wither."

MK nodded quietly, feeling Mei's worried, "are you not telling me something" glance on the back of his head. He reached out a hand, and the two divine beasts press their foreheads together.

The dragon faded away in a rain of falling leaves and petals, and when the Purple Color Stone hit the ground, nothing remains of the tiger but a thin layer of silvery, metallic sand on the floor.

Appendix: Inside the Pagoda

The fix-it is mostly over at this point, so the following is just me adding some additional worldbuilding and foreshadowing to MK's solution in E10, to make the whole "giving powers to everyone" thing a little less out of left field.

In the previous section, it was mentioned that a bunch of Lunar Mansions end up inside Li Jing's pagoda too. And when MK and friends run across them, they are in a pretty bad state.

Namely, the same cracks they see on the divine beasts are now appearing on the Lunar Mansions' bodies too.

"Isn't it obvious? Our masters are no more, so we now bear the brunt of the weight that was once on their shoulders..." "And are on our way of being crushed to a pancake." "Very tactful, aren't you?" The one-horned man sighed. "But yes. Lord Mengzhang is a stellar beast too——the greatest of all. He is a constellation, while we are merely the stars that make up the dragon's body, embued with a tiny fraction of his power." "And when the very sky of the East has fallen..." "How can the stars remain unscathed?"

After that, they basically exit the scene to fade away offscreen. But the information they revealed plants the seed of an idea in MK: specifically, that the Color Stones' power (and burden) can be shared between multiple individuals, like what happened at the end of E10.

Also, tiny fix: instead of MK learning the circlet spell outta nowhere, he's gonna tap into the power of the Color Stones during his fight with SWK, just like he did during Xuanwu's trial, to buy enough time to make his sacrifice.

#lego monkie kid #lmk season 5 #rewrite #fix it au #kinda?#chinese mythology #four symbols #sixiang #lmk mk #azure dragon #white tiger #black tortoise #vermillion bird #lmk critical

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