#and then there's showrunner's comment for this scene...

[jimmyspades]

"Look alive!" THE BLACKLIST 10.13 "The Sicilian Error of Color"

[kenzan-kiwami]

one of the reasons i enjoy keiji zero so much is that it dares to ask the question of "what if your traumagenic alter had autism"

[lexdelioncourt]

I have 2 fears regarding Devil's Minion

- that they would focus less on past DM and more on present DM (there have been a lot of hints with Eric and Assad, but almost nothing w Assad and Luke)

- that they would focus more on the toxic aspect (re Rolin's comments that it will be majorly fucked up) rather than the domestic part

But I love love love your hopeposting, its so refreshing

Hey! I'm so glad you enjoy my hopeposting! Don't get me wrong, I have my fears too (these two own my ass) but I'm always trying to remember things that we know, while trying to tap into as much media analysis as possible in order to keep the hope alive. So let's inject some hope, shall we?

Personally I believe there are too many things that have been teased in S1/2 that don't really make sense to me if past-DM didn't happen. The main and most obvious one to me being the weirdly soft moments Armand has with Daniel (stopping Louis from messing with him, comforting Daniel when Louis brings up the Alice thing, apologising on behalf of Louis after he did that, the soft conversation at the beginning of Episode 2.3, the long companionable silences that are emphasised by repeated shots of Daniel's audio recording program). This is not the way someone would behave towards a total stranger they met once 50 years ago, tortured for a week, and then never saw again until now. SOMETHING has changed in this relationship between 1973 and 2022. Before and after having fallen in love?? Hopefully!

I also think that these softer moments hint to us that we will hopefully see their relationship as equal parts messy and soft (like we've seen with Loustat), because the writers are doing a great job of giving us some well-rounded characters and complex ships and I hope that they will continue to do so. Rolin's comment about something "majorly fucked up" between them could go any way I think. I mean it's majorly fucked up if Armand did wipe all of Daniel's memories! Chasing him around the world is also pretty fucked up! A lot of stuff they do is fucked up! But they have those soft moments too, soft moments I think show Armand is still having in those scenes I mentioned above. Also, it's always key to remember that showrunners talk shit all the time to keep from spoiling their shows. He's going to be trolling and redirecting and trying to keep a lid on things as much as possible so I don't think we should worry too much on that front.

On the Alice thing, I'm not gonna beat a dead horse, we all know the theories but I think the key takeaways are

The "she felt freer to hold her hand" line (because there has been throughout the entire show a repeating refrain of "European sensibilities", "they care less about what you look like or who you're looking at").

2. The very intentional editing of that scene ("what did she *flashback of Armand* say when you asked her to marry you *shot of Armand*". I think this is a VERY intentional editing choice. This isn't subtext, this is just THE TEXT.

Also the fact that the show has kept the past timeline the same as the book timeline (OG interview in 1973) and mentioned the failed proposal as happening in 1985 (the year Daniel is turned in the books) also gives me hope that essentially the show is going to do a book canon divergence thing where, instead of young Daniel's turning, we get the breakup/mindwipe thing and we see an alternate universe where Daniel lives his full life.

Finally, purely from a storytelling point of view, I think objectively the only completely satisfying way to show Daniel and Armand's relationship is if past-DM happened. I make it no secret that I am a romance girlie (in fact I am writing my PhD dissertation on a niche subgenre of popular romance), and I have posted before about how the Devil's Minion chapter meets all the genre requirements for a romance. The second chance romance trope (for those who don't know) is a super fun trope in which a pair of exes finally get their second shot at a happily ever after. This trope often involves older protagonists purely because of the whole second chance thing. The show version of Devil's Minion TO ME has all the hallmarks of a second-chance romance and I will shout about it unapologetically!! Also speaking of tropes, never forget that the amnesia plotline is an EXTREMELY popular telenovela trope.

I'm not gonna get to into all the reasons why I think past-DM happened (because there's plenty of posts and analyses out there and you didn't even ask for that lol). But I do think the main reason we've seen a lot of Eric/Assad and not really a whole lot of Luke/Assad is because Luke is a walking, living, breathing spoiler. While we are all choosing to believe past-DM happened it still isn't show confirmed and if they start parading Luke around too much, then that's basically confirmation that they're doing past-DM because why the fuck else would they pay to drag him back if they weren't?

I also think they'd be crazy to not keep utilising him, because he is so incredible (also, the more I think about it the more I think that the very idea of setting this as a second interview and showing young Daniel at all leads me to believe in past-DM, simply because showing the young/old Daniel dichotomy probably wasn't even 100% necessary to the broader storyline if past-DM didn't happen).

I'm so sorry, this reply totally got away from me haha. But I hope it made sense and injected some hope!

[vldunchartedregions]

I see all these comments and notes about changes with Allura and Lotor and Keith and Lance, but where's Shiro in all this? One of my biggest grievances about s7-8 was how they seemed to strip him of his personality and turn him into a bland leader, and it was thought that they might've cut some of his more personal interactions with the team. Does this have any basis in reality?

Hello! Thank you for the question.

This question... is a loaded one and more complicated than one realises.

If you're unaware, Shiro has an complicated history in the corporate realm of developing Voltron: Legendary Defender.

He was meant to die after Season 2.

He was the mentor character; a vehicle to progress a leadership narrative for Keith. That's why he talks about dying in various moments throughout VLD.

Very Gurren Lagann (Simon & Kamina, anyone?)

It didn't happen due to him being the most popular character and they needed to sell more toys.

They even made a joke about it in S4E4: The Voltron Show.

Coran freaks out and tells him they're never letting him go. He's the most popular character.

So TL;DR: They tried to kill him again post Season 6. He truly had no purpose originally past Season 7. The many arcs he had (including the Kuron arc) were resolved already.

He was literally in a coffin in S7E1: A Little Adventure, while the gang tried to find a way to get him to wake up after his Clone body starts to disagree with him.

In one of the drafts apparently as spoken to on the Afterbuzz TV Podcast, the Showrunners wanted to see Allura progress into his commandeering position once Earth and the Atlas came into play. Shiro's current role from S7-8.

Nope. Not allowed.

So, they were able to integrate him in a very impactful way into Season 7 in the final battle, were able to give him a greater purpose in order to save Earth, and we did have some sweet moments in Season 8; Clear Day being one of them.

He played a quintessential role in Season 8 at the commander of the ATLAS, but he did have another core purpose, and of course, this was a mentor role.

Someone to guide the way for others.

Boom.

He was a vehicle for another subplot: The Love Triangle™

Claudia is a character from Macross / Robotech, who lost their Fiancé; a fighter pilot.

Claudia comforts Hikaru, who was just broken up with by Macross Idol, Lynn Minmay, and is currently stuck in a love triangle between her and her childhood friend now supervisor, Misa?

Time to blow your mind.

Both photos were taken by a Beezer equivalent robot, same beep and boop sounds.

Don't believe me? Watch here from 10:20

Sound familiar?

The VAs even mentioned there was a scene between Lance and Shiro that made everyone in the booth cry. We don't ever see this scene as far as we're aware.

The love triangle subplot was cut for the most part, so the mentorship scenes he was meant to have purpose and intent for? The sole reason they instilled the Adam storyline and his death in the first place?

All cut.

TL;DR: He did have a greater purpose to the plot of Season 8, however it was for the most part cut. Boo.

Thank you for the question.

[perseruna]

heyyyy do you have any details/sources for the ca*ill being a jackass thing? ngl i watch twn for yen and jaskier so i was already planning on continuing to season 4 but i'd love some reasons to be actively excited for the actor switch. but i haven't kept up on the behind-the-scenes stuff so i'm kinda lost on that front if you're up for sharing any of what you know!

okay guys buckle up this is THE anti henry cavill megathread xoxo

First of all him dating a teenager as a 33 year old fully grown man literally gross and disgusting.

Also as this quote implies they started dating a year prior and only went public when she was 19 so they supposedly started dating when she was 18.

His entire dating history is a MESS. Sure the women he dated are not him, but he chose to date them, I wouldn't even associate myself with people like these let alone be in a relationship with them. He dated the infamous transphobic TERF Gina Carano, albeit before her loud controversy, but I doubt her harmful views were any different back then. His current gf has a history of doing black face.

His "Me Too" comments.

His comments on the Me Too movement are literally so vile. If you don’t want to be called a rapist, just don’t rape women, it’s literally as simple as that. They’re even more foul because they’re promoting the idea that women lie about their abusive for fame, promoting that harmful rhetoric especially in our times is incredibly dangerous.

Now onto his on set behavior.

We can't talk about his set behavior without mentioning the deuxmoi set leak. Here's the transcript of it:

[Transcript:

There’s something I really really wanted to read to you guys--it has to do with why Henry Cavill left The Witcher. I know that was something that you guys were super interested in when it happened, and I just recently got this message. Somebody was like “Hey, do you want to know what really went down?” And I was like “Sure!” So let me just read it. It says:

“At the beginning of the show, Henry was good to work with. A lot of difficult demands that made people feel like he wasn’t a team player, but that’s not unusual for a really big star. Though in TV it truly usually doesn’t happen until the second season. But in season two and three something shifted and he became really impossible for women to work with, which is always a big problem, but even worse here because the showrunner is a woman. He would try to overrule her and try to get changes made last minute across the board without her knowledge, which, if you know anything about showrunning, is completely fucked. The showrunner has to sign off on every miniscule detail down to the buttons on a costume. Female writers and directors were suddenly being completely ignored on set, unable to do their jobs. Every department head was complaining. He started making comments—it wasn’t a sexual thing, he wasn’t grabbing anyone or being lewd, but it was disrespectful and toxic all the same.

“He is deeply addicted to video games, to the point where it was like working with any other addict. He was distracted, he was late, he was obsessive, and a lot of people think the misogyny came from gamer world. Video game bro language is not how you talk to coworkers, and he wouldn’t stop. Someone on the show compared it to watching someone get brainwashed by QAnon, like his whole personality shifted. Eventually his disrespect escalated. He would rewrite scenes without even alerting the other actors in the scenes until it was time to shoot. He decided that he didn’t want any romantic scenes at all—no kissing scenes, no shirtless scenes, et cetera. He wanted complete control of storylines but really had no idea of the limitations of TV, structure, budget, et cetera. He formed a weird alliance with one writer who was also a gamer, who eventually got fired after multiple HR complaints were made and after that writer left, Henry did anything he could to hold up production and cause problems.

“Eventually top brass at Netflix was tired of him costing them money with delays and HR investigations and the showrunner was asked to construct a potential exit for him. Netflix reached out to him personally and he was given one final warning, and violated that warning with an email he sent to the entire writing staff right after that meeting. That was it. It’s very disappointing.”

End transcript.]

Now believe me or not, but I know from a really good source that the leak was indeed real.

There's a lot of patterned behavior that tracks with what we know of him and his past controversies.

After that leak came out, there was a lot of people from different places coming to comment that ‘yes’ they’ve heard a very similar story adding a little bit more details of their own.

this quickly deleted tweet from one of the writers/producers:

there were rumors about him being an asshole to Anya specifically.

He went on record that he doesn't "understand" sex scenes. Which I know the sex discourse is rampant nowadays and each to their own, but he specifically signed up for a role that requires those scenes and then refused to do them and was allegedly nasty to Anya about it and with the way he talks about women...

Also it’s important to touch upon the “writer he had a weird alliance with” that man in question is Beau DeMayo of the recent fame of getting fired by Marvel from X-Men ‘97. He was previously allegedly fired from The Witcher for being emotionally and physically abusive. And he allegedly got fired from X-Men for being abusive as well. One of The Witcher writers tweeted this after Beau smeared them for “disliking the books” Beau was literally the first person to start that narrative.

The fact that it was HIS idea not to say lines of his dialogue in S1 and instead grunt. To the point that Joey had to take Henry’s lines and make it his own, so the plot would make sense, he talks about it in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Oyh0t117t0U&, and then once S2 press arrived Henry was talking about how he was trying to fight the big bad writers to give him more lines. Ridiculous.

Everyone is already pointing out that the cast looks so much happier without him, and it’s very true. Henry was never present on close to any BTS pics from filming the previous seasons, or on any cast dinners or birthdays. He wouldn't even do any shared interviews with the other three mains but only had solo interviews which to me was giving disrespectful like you're an ensemble you’re not the only lead here. It felt like he was above them to sit down and answer questions with them. When they were doing press junkets in Brazil and Poland Anya, Joey and Freya would always arrive together and leave together with that man leaving all the events early and by himself. And like people who post quotes from the cast about him being perfect from press junkets as “proof” are insane to me like Obviously they’re going to say nice things about him, not only they're newcomers, and he's an established industry name, but they’re doing PRESS for a show that he’s a STAR of (well, was lmao)

The fact that he never defended Anya from the racist trolls, even though most of them were HIS fans. Like she had to go through so much and that man couldn’t make a single comment about it as a leading man BUT he could make a whole IG post because people were being mean to his gf and calling her out for doing blackface.

And sure people might say that a lot of these are unverified sources, and I’d get it if it was a singular case, but there are a ton of these accounts that all match each other. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

[lannyharlaw]

This is a response to a hotd critical post about the "favouritism towards Greens in screen time ratio", and I think it's so interesting how team black also feel like they're being fucked over by the showrunners when, to me, it's blindingly obvious that it's the other way round.

Not only are the show runners villainising the greens, not the blacks, they've also gone out of their way to make the blacks seem like the badass heroes who can do no wrong, and this is the root of the problem for both team black and team green. It oversimplifies the dance and goes against the themes and message of the whole book, rendering the characters either inconsistent, one-dimensional, and worst of all, flat and boring.

Lets start off with the greens. The argument that the showrunners are "gagging on the greens" doesn't hold up when we actually think about it for more than 2 seconds.

With the source material of hotd being a fictional history book with different biases and perspectives (emphasis on different perspectives), the showrunners have cherry picked what to adapt, and have chosen to take the worst of the greens as the objective truth and erase their good moments as "green propaganda". The main example that comes to mind is aegon. Plenty of other people have talked about this in depth before, but in f&b, aegon raping a girl was a rumour spread by mushroom, a narrator with a clear black bias who wasn't even in kings landing at the time. There was no reason in adapting this rumour other than to demonise aegon, and by extension, team green. The way the scene is framed, it is clear that it was never about dyana, how the rape affected her mentally, emotionally, socially, physically. For a supposedly feminist show, dyana's rape was a throwaway scene, it never had any impact on the story further. So what was the point of the scene other than to tell the audience "look at what a monster aegon is. How can you support someone like that?" And it works.

You can see on social media, any time there's something vaguely positive about the greens, you have hoards of people comment "yeah but he's a rapist" "how can you support a rapist?", etc. It forces you to side with team black. Later in the show, the audience gets to know that aegon's dick burst "like a sausage". Why would the audience need to know this? Aegon's mutilated dick is presented as "karma" for dyana and is only meant to humiliate him. And again, after this revelation, so many people on social media were making fun of his "burnt sausage". They've made a laughingstock of aegon, and as the figurehead of team green, it's clear that we're not meant to side with team green.

Furthermore, in bastardising, and sometimes, even completely erasing the relationships between team green, the showrunners have dehumanised them and made them irredeemable villains, because, again, we were never meant to side with those who "usurped the rightful queen".

The loyalty and commitment the greens had to one another made them such compelling characters and heavily shaped their central motivations and actions. Aegon only took the crown to protect his family. Aemond, after rooks rest, never called himself a king, only lord protecter even though he knows he would've made a better king than aegon. Daeron torched the riverlands to get to his mother and sister and sacked bitterbridge as revenge for his nephew. Helaena offered up her life for her son, and chose to sacrifice maelor because she knew he wouldn't understand what was happening. Their actions may not be necessarily good (and in daeron's case, actually happen to be war crimes), and their motivations may be morally grey, but they're understandable, they're sympathetic, seeing as it was out of love and loyalty, something that 21st century society can relate to. Without these complex and compelling ties, the audience is left asking why would the greens stick together if they all seemingly can't stand each other? Why fight for aegon if he doesn't even seem to care for them? What was the point in having the crown then? As a result, the characterisations feel one-dimensional (helaena being reduced to being just an "innocent" amidst her bloodthirsty family) or inconsistent (alicent. just her entire story arc. it could've been interesting if done right, but alas, no such luck), or rushed (suddenly aemond wants to be king in his own right after defending his brother's claim at storms end).

This isn't to say that team green are perfect, far from it, but the close emotional ties and relationships could've been used to elevate the internal conflicts in the show. We could've had complex characters who aren't necessarily good, but they're family and they stick together despite their personal grievances.

And this isn't even mentioning their bonds with their dragons. Where was vhagar roaring when aemond's eye was cut out? Aegon and sunfyre had the closest bond between dragon and human and that was given to rhaenyra in the show and where is dreamfyre?

One last thing on the greens, they are presented as incompetent and not equipped to rule, which is meant to show how it would be oh so much better if rhaenyra was on the throne. Criston parading meleys' head is framed as stupid as meleys was "a beloved dragon", ignoring the fact that she murdered hundreds of smallfolk at the coronation. Alicent is presented as stupid for thinking that after rooks rest, the small council would appoint her the queen, aegon in the small council was meant to be laughed at. Of course, this begs the question, if the greens were meant to be a mess of a faction with only 3 functioning dragons and now 2 effective dragon riders, how did they hold out against the blacks for so long? It's clear that the showrunners haven't thought this through.

So yeah, i don't really understand what this person was trying to say when they say that the showrunners are "gagging on the greens" when they are demonised, humiliated and stripped of compassion. I would like to say here, nothing i've said about the greens here is new to team green fans, and so many more people have gone into more depth about this.

Lets move onto the blacks. In a conflict where no side was meant to be in the right (who has the right to rule is a beast for another day), where there were no winners, only losers, where a dynastic dispute almost tore down the entire aforementioned dynasty, the blacks are framed as the heroes, the side the audience should root for. If they come off as villainised to the audience, i don't think it was done on purpose.

Opposite to the greens, they're mistakes and flaws are glossed over. I think this is the main reason why team black falls flat as opposed to lack of screen time, which i don't really want to count.

An important example of this is blood and cheese. In f&b, blood and cheese was a horrific event which drove queen helaena mad and, importantly, was meant to murder one of aegon and helaena's sons in revenge for lucerys. A son for a son. It was always meant to be jaehaerys. By making blood and cheese all one big mistake in the show, with aemond as the real target and oops, we can't find him so jaehaerys will do, team black and rhaenyra can't be held accountable for the murder of an innocent 6 year old boy. Moreover, the fact that rhaenyra never knew or sanctioned the murder, and it was all daemon going rogue, rhaenyra is even further removed from the horrific murder of a child, because, of course, our heroine can't be responsible for anything bad, she's meant to be the one in the right!

Furthermore, condal and hess try to force the smallfolk's love of rhaenyra during the dance, contrary to the book, which serves to uphold rhaenyra's right to the throne and show how team black are the right side. During the blockade on kings landing, the smallfolk conveniently forget that she's the one causing the blockade when she sends food through (showing that she could've done that at any time). The cheering for rhaenyra and the riot makes no sense, as again, she was the one who caused the blockade in the first place.

The introduction of the prophecy also is only meant to justify any "wrong" rhaenyra and team black do. The death of the dragonseeds and the smallfolk were all in the name of a prophecy so it's ok. And this is the thing which infuriates me the most, because the prophecy could've been a fascinating aspect of team black's motivations if framed right. The idea of committing atrocities in the name of a believed divine, higher purpose could've been used to expand upon team black's character growth and internal conflict vis a vis the knights templar and the crusades. How do they feel about this? Are they even aware of what they're doing? Alas, the show itself buys into the prophecy, buys into the divine purpose and suddenly, the atrocities aren't presented as "that bad" anyways. All of that to say, the show has never intentionally villainised team black.

So we've established that as the heroes, team black can't do anything wrong, and if they do, it's for a higher purpose, so it's alright. Team black's "emotions and conflicts are made secondary" not to "disposable filler scenes of Greens", but to themselves, or rather, to rhaenyra and her right to rule. So many team black scenes were used to uplift rhaenyra to show how she is the rightful queen. The main two examples of this that stick out to me is baela rebuking jace when he rightfully questions rhaenyra's decisions and daemon's whole harrenhal arc, which serves as his redemption and so he can reaffirm his commitment to rhaenyra's right to rule. Of course it's going to be "a bore" if the main characters, the ones we're meant to be cheering haven't got anything going for them except for cheering on rhaenyra.

There's no character interaction, no character growth, no real internal conflict because from the beginning, team black has been presented as in the right and can do no wrong, so there's no room to grow, no room to develop, not because of lack of screen time. When character development almost breaks through (see: jace questioning rhaenyra), it's quickly quashed, because the audience needs to be reminded that rhaenyra is always right. There's a clear good and bad side that the show is trying to force, which doesn't work in this setting because it reinforces the idea of the divine right of kings, the idea that one person, one family is superior to all others, and that person is rhaenyra here. It undermines the idea that no one was in the right for the atrocities they committed. No one can be justified and that fundamentally, these are not good people, they're interesting characters (or could've been interesting characters), but they're not good people.

So why? Why are the blacks presented as the good side and the greens presented as evil? It all comes down to the fact that the showrunners have propagated the idea that the dance is about a woman's struggle to rule in the face of misogyny, rather than the decline of house targaryen due to their belief in targaryen exceptionalism or the consequences of the pursuit of power. Sure, feminism and misogyny is one aspect of the dance, but it's not a major driving factor. The showrunners have backed themselves into a corner here, because they trying to portray the dance through a modern feminist lens, and so they believe that they can't write women being flawed or evil, and so we get the free, liberated good side and the "misogynistic", conservative bad side.

So in conclusion, it is clear that the showrunners aren't villainising the blacks as this person believes, but the greens. In doing this, they've made a clear cut good and bad side which works to the detriment of both team black and team green. It leads team green's characterisation to be inconsistent and one-dimensional and it chokes team black from having character growth.

Listen, i don't know if team black truly have less screen time than team green, but if they do, it's not the reason why team black falls flat.

[luunamoona]

the way community handled queerness is honestly so peak. like, there're 3 main moments i can think of in the show where queerness was apparent and mentioned: advanced gay, queer studies and advanced waxing and britta's pitch in emotional concequences of broadcast television.

in advanced gay, the cornelius hawthorne is seen as a villian for having traits like being abusive towards his son, pierce, him being really racist and him being homophobic. this acknowledgement of homophobia being a bad thing is definitely good for the early 2010s, as many shows treated being queer as a joke back then. also cornelius being fucking murdered at the end of the episode solidifies the fact his actions were deemed immoral and he therefore had his comeuppance.

community only ever uses queerness as a punchline in the context of troy and abed's relationship, the punchline usually being "look at how romantic these 2 friends are how silly", which could be seen as homophobia as the same context with a man and a woman would be treated differently by the showrunners as it'd be turned into a romantic subplot.

the next example i have is from queer studies and advanced waxing. having the dean tell richie and carl that he "isn't openly anything and gay doesn't begin to cover it" is much more progressive than many other media at that time, and even now, as they'd usually have the queer character just be gay for convenience. this need for convenience is commented on in the episode with richie and carl basically coercing the dean into adopting a label that is inaccurate but convenient for his straight peers. back to my previous point, presenting queerness as being more complex and having more nuance than just gay and straight is something that is very useful to queer viewers as it presents an option beyond these 2 ends of the spectrum. unlike what other shows may do with this concept, community treats it seriously, showing the dean's inner conflict with presenting with an identity that isn't his, with lines like "i feel sick". (also side point, the line "i make gayness look like mormonism" goes so hard)

finally, there's britta's pitch in emotional concequences of broadcast television. in this, the dean protests britta's decision to make him transgender and not "all this other stuff". something i love about that scene is the ability to critique queer represention without insulting it. as a trans person, i've seen a good amount of transphobia is television. this isn't one of these times. being able to have trans identity be a part of the punchline without it being insulted is something that is apparently very hard for screenwriters of sitcoms to do, so i commend them for being able to do that. as well as this, this scene acts as a criticism of how basic queer representation in media is, how they like having one distinct, easy to understand label to give their token character, ignoring "all this other stuff". it's telling us that, like in queer studies and advanced waxing, queer idenity isn't black and white, it's a wide spectrum of identities that comes in many, many different colors.

all in all, community's representation of queerness and how it treats insults to queerness is something a lot of other shows should try to strive for. in my opinion, it has some of the most nuanced takes of queer identity and representation out of any sitcom that doesn't have queer people as a target audience. it feels very fitting, since the show is literally called community and it about a group of misfits who bond over their shared messed up-ness. this show is all about finding your people and accepting everyone, as pierce says in for a few paintballs more, "flaws and all". i think the showrunners had an impression this show would speak to a lot of queer people and i love that they were able to make us feel welcome just as greendale does to the study group.

[bibi-the-pooh]

I'll just quietly be delusional for a second. Here we go. Beware, and don't judge me—I need to let this out. And please don’t comment “Don’t get your hopes up” under this one. But if you have some positive take, I’m all ears (or eyes). It just ruins the mood, and the Weyler side of this fandom is always full of woe.

Jenna never said anything about romance after her Vanity Fair interview with Elle—that was around June 2023. After that, radio silence. She only talked about how the show got bigger, bolder, scarier, etc., but never mentioned the romance aspect again. And when I say “romance,” I obviously mean Wednesday’s tumultuous connection with Tyler. I’m not talking about those gooey gooey crypt dates (no offense, Tyler), or heart-wrenching “let me smile at you when I NEVER do that to anyone but just kissed you so it seems plausible” Weathervane kisses.

At that time, she said she “got a couple of outlines for the first couple of episodes,” and—quote on quote—“I think that we’re kind of ditching any romantic love interest for Wednesday, which is really great.”

Now, why did she say “kind of”? What was there in Season 1 that would be taken into Season 2? Or rather—who was there in Season 1? I know, I know, she also said “We’re letting her be her own individual.” But I didn’t say anything about a partner. (Maybe a partner in crime—but that’s besides the point.) She can still be her own individual with a certain serial killing monster by her side… if he’s willing to cooperate, that is.

And my excuse to nitpick that wording is based on some Weylers’ insistence on nitpicking Hunter’s interview with Tom Daley. Yes, he said: “Especially for me this year, I get to play the full villain, so I feel like I’m in the Tim Burton world from the beginning.” But that doesn’t mean Tyler won’t get a redemption arc, won’t struggle with his Hyde, or that he’ll just be plain bad. What Hunter meant was that Tyler now gets to be his true self—not pretend to be a good boy and act like an innocent barista.

Judging by the time they started filming Season 2 (May 2024), A LOT could have changed over a year. I realized this after I freaked out about Hunter’s podcast—because that was also around June 2023—and wondered whether the showrunners could’ve made drastic changes about Tyler’s Hyde. I still don’t think they’d change how Hyde operates, but still. It’s brutal out there. Everyone expects him to die, quickly redeem himself and die, or become the “full villain” and die.

So far, official instagram, twitter, tiktok EVEN FACEBOOK account have all put Tyler in the spotlight. 'Bonnie and Hyde', young love revolting, "I knew you couldn't resist seeing me again." , "Keep your friends close. Keep your monsters closer","I descended upon this asylum because lunacy is far more entertaining in person.", Then there's that 'Addams Family Sneak Peek', which, for some inexplicable reason, includes only Hunter. He is inside the Addams Family house and probably shooting his scenes there (SUSPICIOUS) while saying "Season 2 has everything people loved about season 1, it's just kind of like we've turned the dial up on everything" okay but i loved weyler...HAVE YOU TURNED THE DIAL UP ON THAT TOO?

Grandmama's line "Old memories are like old corpses. They never quite seem the same...when you dig them up." proceeds to show a shot of Wednesday looking at Tyler from outside that glass cell

In this frame, she is wearing the same puffer jacket when she faced with the Hyde in Willowhill's hallway. And here:

AND HERE:

(Though here she is wearing a black hoodie inside, not a shirt. I could take this delusions to a next level and say she wore it just to give it to Tyler after he transforms back into his human form but you know...I'll shut up. Plus I don't think she'd be that generous to him. And Tyler wouldn't even fit into her oversized hoodies lol)

But seriously, why is she wearing the same jacket for three times? One is by chance. Twice is coincidence. Third one must be the pattern.

Also—is that the camping episode? Let’s assume the school is going on a camp trip. They must’ve been on their way in the morning to settle into the campsite. We know Morticia and Gomez will be there. My question is: at what point did Morticia and Wednesday have that conversation (argument?), and when did Gomez step in as a buffer between them?

Your honor, I’d like permission to ask this question: WAS IT BEFORE OR AFTER SHE RELEASED TYLER?

I repeat my stance: I don’t think they will kiss, or have a romance (at least not the conventional kind). There’s already so much going on in that freaking town. But both Gough & Millar and Jenna said they’d expanded the universe. If there’s going to be another monster (and we know there are a bunch of new villains this season—I assume one of them is Owen Painter’s character), then it makes sense. To defeat a monster, you must either become one… or make one your ally.

BUT I don’t think Wednesday will just ignore Tyler’s remarks and jabs, flash her usual “I wish I cared a little more” attitude and move on with her life. That wouldn’t be realistic. There’s so much unresolved tension between the two. And if Tyler isn’t straight-up evil (let’s be real—even if he is), there’s still a "sexual kind of compatibility" between these two. (Hunter, i love you so much for that one, and for the time you said "I would want to explore what was real between them." What a brave soul.)

Wednesday WILL care about his well-being. She knows Laurel abused and groomed him. She knows Donovan is an absentee father figure. She’s aware of Nevermore’s hypocrisy. She’ll be in that Cloud Tower; she knows it was a secluded space for Hydes, and that they closed it and banned the entire species without giving a damn about their future.

Mind you, this is the scene where Wednesday was talking about how Laurel made Tyler his slave. So you tell me Jenna accidentally teared up while filming this? Impossible.

Let's talk about how huge Wenclair fandom is:

While I do worry that Netflix might insist on keeping Wednesday single until the very end, I don’t think Wenclair will ever become canon. They make this job harder for everyone—they disturb Emma, leave middle finger emojis under Ajax’s and Bruno’s character posts on Instagram, accuse Hunter of "getting in the way of their ship," write “Hunter is gayyy, he can’t be in a straight relationship!!” (Seriously?) under every post. Their entitlement level is insane—and not in a good way.

So tell me—would it be better to cave in and give them what they want, and leave them with the belief that “we can get whatever we want by bullying people”? Or is it better to ignore their demands, stop fueling the fire, and protect the artists involved?

Because it looks like they’re doing the latter by not acknowledging any of the “Wenclair is canon!” comments.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but both Emma and Gough & Millar said they were open to exploring Wenclair’s relationship and that anything was possible. What people ignore—or choose not to see—is that G&M also said, “We will not be misdirected by fans” when they were asked about Wenclair. Instead of taking that as a sign to chill a little, they took it to the next level.

Congratu-fcking-lations. Talk about a well crafted grave digging session.

And no, I’m not lesbophobic, or whatever other label people are ready to slap on me. I’m just stating my opinion: while Wenclair is a lovely fanon ship, its logistics in canon wouldn’t be as compelling to watch as Weyler.

There are infinite possibilities for these two characters—even just as “friends.” (Though with that chemistry and banter, I can’t imagine them ever being “just friends.”)

Meanwhile, with Wenclair, they haven’t planted any kind of romantic or sexual compatibility that makes us think, “What a longing glance. What a burning desire. Omg, psychopath and sociopath? Brilliant pairing. Two sides of the same coin. Two magnets drawn to each other.”

And let’s cut the crap about “All of the cast members ship Wenclair!”, okay? I ship them, but this doesn’t mean all of us want Wenclair to become canon. My reasons are obvious enough. As for the cast, believe me when I tell you this: THEY DON’T CARE. They are doing their job. Hunter is a grown-ass man, and he sees how interesting Weyler’s relationship is, and he would like to explore it if he has a say in this. But he also knows some people want representation, and he is okay with that; he supports it. He has lived the same things as a gay man.

Jenna said, “In a perfect world, Wenclair would be a thing.” But the Addams Family world is not a perfect world. Wednesday will probably be a detective and hunt serial killers for all her life. Do you genuinely think Enid would want to jump into one danger just to be thrown into another for her entire life? What about her friends, family, pack?

Did she look like she enjoyed that girls night and that she'd absolutely want to do it again?

“I still don’t want to see Tyler. He killed people. He doesn’t deserve a redemption arc.” If you say this about a misled kid, you are just as cruel as your words. I wouldn’t want to be near you.

“So you don’t want him to face the consequences of what he has done?” We are talking about a redemption arc here 💀 He’ll probably lose his father. He’ll forever be labelled as a serial-killing monster.

God forbid a girl wants to see a good half-villain in her gothic TV show.

[pigfartsviatardis]

Was discussing queerbaiting recently with a friend because we’re watching Once Upon A Time (trash, but shockingly well written trash in the first 3 seasons) and obs we both ship swan queen. I mean. Come on.

But we noticed that from the start of s3 onwards, there was noticeably less shippy stuff between these two. There’s still a bit here and there because a) lesbian mums and b) chemistryyyy… but it felt like the writers were intentionally backing off from that pairing and putting genuine effort into the male love interests for both characters.

You might think that becalming the swan queen ship would have annoyed or disappointed my friend and myself, the shippers. But tbh we both agreed that it was actually nice to see a writing team see a popular queer fandom ship, go ‘oh whoops that’s not endgame’, and actively NOT bait it.

Obviously everyone here is aware of the Golden Age Of Queerbaiting, the late 2000s/early 2010s; even if you’re too young to have actually battled through it, it’s deep tumblr lore. We all know the repeat and egregious offenders from that time - destiel, merthur, johnlock, whatever the main one was on teen wolf - and how gleefully these shows would dangle queer rep in front of our twitching little noses.

Recently, I’ve noticed a more insidious trend: the Male Friendship Scarcity Myth. The most glaring recent examples are nandermo (WWDITS) and jayvik (arcane), both of which were popular ships after the first season(s) of their shows aired and were subsequently given increased screen time and shippy scenes/storylines. In the case of nandermo, the romantic feelings (at least from Guillermo) were textual. Both pairings were given ambiguous endings where they were together, but not confirmed as, yknow, together.

And then both showrunners, after the shows ended, decided to step up to the mic and give a heartfelt little speech along the lines of ‘men are allowed to be friends without it being sexual, and it’s actually really important that we show this, because we need more representation of close platonic brotherly male friendship in media’.

Anyone who was around during the aforementioned Golden Age Of Queerbaiting, or in fact anyone who consumes popular media at all, knows that this is horseshit.

It’s only ever close platonic brotherly male friendship. Or at least, 95% of the time. Everywhere you look, from major fandom shows to mcu movies, platonic male relationships are often front and centre. That’s nearly always the canon. How often does a major mlm ship actually go canon??? Hardly ever. Even destiel didn’t; cas’s feelings were confirmed last minute, but the official canon dynamic between him and dean is still brotherly bffs.

Are these friendships often the subject of intense fandom shipping? Yes, as literally any close relationship between any two characters of any gender always will be. People like shipping! But the official canon, and the gospel truth held up by poorly disguised homophobes in fandom, is nearly always strictly platonic bros.

Anyway. All this to say, I’ve been disillusioned recently seeing this myth pop up in every comments section on any jayvik-related content, that we have a lack of male friendship in media (we don’t, we have a lack of male friendship that isn’t queer coded to super turbo gay hell and back in media). I was even more disillusioned seeing the exact same rhetoric being spewed by those involved with WWDITS, which is ironically a show jam packed full of close male friendships THAT INVOLVE CASUAL SEX. The call was truly coming from inside the coffin on that one.

So, unexpectedly and somewhat depressingly, swan queen and OUAT have been a balm for the soul in the midst of all this. No queerbaiting (at least not where I’m up to), just good old fashioned straightwashing. At least it’s honest 🤷‍♀️

[mementomoriwithacherryontop]

Thoughts literally no one asked for but I want to share anyway: Why I'm still supporting Dead Boy Detectives

And some facts on his connection to a show I've fought for for the last several months

What is being made is as important to me as how something is made. And after I first watched Dead Boy Detectives and later learned what a positive experience it was for literally everyone involved, I knew I had to champion it.

Steve Yockey and Beth Schwartz, the showrunners, took extra care to make sure the set was a safe space for everyone who worked there. Crew members have mentioned on a Reddit thread that they mourned the cancellation not so much because of lost income, but because they wouldn't have the chance to return to a work environment that truly valued them, that respected them, and that made them love coming to work every day.

And Steve and Beth took care to make sure the writers were diverse.* This is important, because they pulled together a team of people from marginalized and diverse backgrounds to tell a story about characters who are also marginalized and from diverse backgrounds. Many of the creatives are members of the LGBTQIA community. They were strategic about casting, too. Only two characters of the main cast are white, and one of them is gay; everyone else is a POC. Niko's character was created from the ground up by Steve and her actress, Yuyu Kitamura.

Steve and Beth were intentional about their choices. I mentioned crew members above, but I want to clarify that writers and cast alike have commented, repeatedly, how safe and respected they felt on set.*

This is not the norm in Hollywood, and the choice to create in that way needs to be recognized.

And in this political climate? Queer media matters now more than ever.

As we sift through discourse regarding social responsibility and accountability when it comes to consuming media and art, the phrase, “don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater” comes to mind. Nuance matters. Details matter.

Of course he-who-shall-not-be-named needs to be held accountable. But the fact remains that he was only very loosely connected to Dead Boy Detectives. He wasn't associated with it at all until it moved to Netflix late in production and incorporated the two cameos from The Sandman. His writing credits total under 11 minutes of the 8 episode series (just those two scenes). He was never on set. He never met the cast in person. He had no creative input on the series, which he has stated multiple times. Additionally, the story isn't even based on his works; it's based on the comics by Toby Litt and Mark Buckingham. Lastly, it's worth noting he does not own the rights to the show. Steve Yockey owns the Dead Boy Detectives, and Warner Brothers has production rights.

His loose connections cannot be allowed to overshadow all the GOOD that this show did, both in it's making and in the story it tells. How art is made matters. And art that is created with kindness and respect for our fellow humans, that gives voices to marginalized people, that allows viewers who are vastly underrepresented in the media to finally see themselves represented on screen?

That's huge. That resonates with people. It's life changing and sometimes even life saving. It's a lantern in the dark, and it gives people hope.

And that matters. Quite a bit, actually. And it deserves to be championed.

It deserves to be saved. ------------------------- *Info regarding writers and set culture is largely gleaned from creators social media accounts, posts/public fan interaction, director interviews, and gameos/gameodens. For more nitty gritty on exactly what his involvement looks like in Dead Boy Detectives, this link has a ton of solid info:

[leothil]

yeah i read a great comment on reddit recently (i wish i could find it again) that talked about for all the criticisms of KR she did let character's traumas and recovery from big events linger and play out over multiple episodes in a way that tim just doesn't really do lately. think maddie's ppd, eddie's ptsd, hen's med school arc, even buck's lightning strike. now maybe some people didn't like the way some of those played out but they were all multi episode arcs with drama more grounded in what they were going through.

whereas tim seems to keep doing this big dramatic stuff but it's wrapped up in 1-2 eps and then it's on to the next big dramatic thing (and god do i wish the exception to this wasn't the kim-eddie-chris stuff dragging on forever)

It's something Tim has been good, or at least better, at in the past too (see e.g. Maddie's whole arc with Tara) - I think it's falling into a bit of a trap trying to judge him solely by how badly he fumbled S7 and the fallout from it. I don't know if we'll ever get a complete tell-all about the behind the scenes of the show, but seeing how much they're rehashing S5 stuff right now I stand by my belief that the major arcs of S5 played out as closely as they could to what was loosely planned before Fox said a hard no to bi Buck and/or buddie. Meaning the EddieAna breakup, Maddie's PPD, Eddie's breakdown, Hen's med school, and BuckTaylor would've happened regardless of who the main showrunner was, even though the timelines likely had to be adjusted here and there.

[coffeebooksrain18]

The fact Ryan and Sara thought that Rhaenyra’s scar is more important to the story compared to Aemonds eye will never not make me roll my eyes. Especially when the "but Ryan and Sara said." Freaks comment on my posts as if I should EVER care about what those brainless showrunners said.

Like seriously? We needed a scene of Alicent caressing the scar compared to a scene of Aemond taking care of his? Like honestly calling this a shitty fanfic or fever dream is offensive to shitty Fanfic writers and fever dreams.

[tommykinard6]

This blog is here to stay. It will remain a Tommy Kinard and BuckTommy blog.

I’m pissed. I’m grieving. 9-1-1 is my favorite show and now they’ve pulled this shit.

If Lou had left the show because the death threats were too much, his mental health was suffering, or he just couldn’t take it anymore, I would absolutely understand. I’d blame a certain part of the fandom, but I’d respect his decision. But he didn’t even want this. He loves Tommy and Tevan. I don’t know what Tim is thinking.

I know it all feels like a waste right now, but it’s not. Let me recount really quick:

• Buck is bisexual.

• There have been some really important scenes to come out of his discovering his sexuality, including Josh’s speech and his own lesson in fighting for his relationship.

• Tommy Kinard will be a character you pry from my cold dead hands. A gay man who discovered himself late in life and is still living his life genuinely. A man who made mistakes and acknowledges them, but has grown far past them. What a wonderfully rounded character.

• Excepting the end of 806, the beauty of their relationship. They did so much with so little screen time.

It’s not a waste, even though the ending absolutely trashed the progress made.

Resolutely, I do not believe this is the end. I know, I know, “the interviews”. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that they’re misdirecting. Also, they haven’t even written the rest of the season yet. The storyline is fixable if there’s a make up.

Not telling anyone how to feel about Oliver’s comments, but I would caution about using TVline’s article as the Bible. It was a terribly written, heavily biased interview and frankly it’s an insult that it was even conducted.

Even if it is the end, no one has to stop shipping. No one has to leave the fandom. We did not lose. We still got our canon ship and it will forever be an irrevocable fact that it was canon. BuckTommy is endgame for me. I may be disappointed by expectations, but I will never be in the wrong for sticking by that.

Make your displeasure known to Tim and ABC, but do not lose your dignity doing so. Do not engage with the haters. No harassing Lou. You can hold Oliver accountable for his remarks, but no harassment of him. You can call him out without making him the fandom whipping boy. I’ve seen many people latching onto him as the outlet for their feelings on this. Do not harass or bully the writers or actors, but make sure the producers and showrunners know they fucked up.

And most importantly, look after yourselves and each other. We’re still a community and we’re here to stay. This week is one of the worst ever, but we will come out of it.

Thank you, Tommy Kinard, for the hope you gave us, the representation you presented, and the character you were. Thank you Lou for portraying such a character and being such a sweetheart. BuckTommy will forever be in our hearts, endgame or not.

As a reminder, BuckTommy is not the be all end all of the show for queer rep. Hen and Karen, our fabulous queens, and Josh will still always be there. Buck is still bi, no matter what’s next in store for him. Tommy, even if gone forever, is still a significant moment of gay rep. And that’s not even counting the small characters that come in and out. It’s not always done well, but it’s there.

[starstruckbyacomet]

Buddiebaiting – Real or Imagination?

A. THE TOXIC FANS

Among Buddie shippers, there are growing toxic fans who have become more prominent over time. These are not normal fans. They're obsessed to make Buddie canon, by all means necessary. They have been bullying actors and showrunners at least since 2020.

There are indications that people inside the show have known about those toxic fans at least since 2021:

Oliver Stark deactivated his Twitter account because of the bullying on May 23, 2021.

In a Gay Times interview uploaded on YouTube on Apr 22, 2024 (time stamp 09:07) Oliver admitted that the actresses who portrayed the love interests had felt unfairly treated by Buddie stans.

In a TPN interview uploaded on YouTube on Jul 21, 2024 (time stamp 19:29), Tim Minear said that some fans on X were wishing him to die.

After knowing about the toxic fans, what did the show do?

Neither Fox nor ABC has ever acknowledged that the bullying & online harassments ever happened. They've never condemned the bullying towards their actors and/or showrunners. They didn't delete bullying comments on their OFFICIAL social media accounts. They also didn't block the senders.

Tim Minear also said that he didn't want the toxic fans affect his work (time stamp 15:14).

When talking about the actresses who felt that they had been 'unfairly treated' by the toxic fans, Oliver stated that "whether or not it was unfair or not, I don't speak to that" (time stamp 09:23). A statement that some people interprete as 'COWARDLY THROWING THE ACTRESSES UNDER THE BUS' by implying that they might deserve such treatement, just to avoid upsetting toxic Buddie fans.

B. ARE YOUR INTENTIONS HONORABLE?

Do Tim Minear & co. do the right thing? Imagine if similar scenario happen to you, for example:

A female co-worker with whom you've been doing a project, confesses her romantic interest to you. You're married, and have no romantic feeling towards her. You plainly reject her. However, your co-worker insists that your spouse is not the right partner for you, she is. What would you do?

Borrowing Hen Wilson's word, if your intentions are 'honorable', you would be mindful in your interactions with the co-worker. You would reduce your friendliness, and avoid any gestures which could raise her empty expectation.

If you're acting as usual, ignoring her feelings, or even encouraging it, you are being selfish and deceitful. It seems that you want to continue enjoying her attention without giving what she wants.

Your co-worker is harassing your spouse to make your spouse leaves you. If you still don't limit your interactions with her by now, you are proven to be a cruel & selfish bastard. At this point, the victim is not only you. Your innocent spouse has been dragged into this mess and suffered.

Tim & co. want to portray a close friendship between Buck & Eddie to the audience, including Buddie shippers. In this case, Buck & Eddie's close friendship is the project, Buddie shippers are the infatuated co-worker, and actors who played the love interests are the spouse.

C. EXAMINING THE BAITS

If Tim & co. have 'honorable intentions', they should be mindful in portraying Buck & Eddie's interactions. If we playback Season 2 and onwards, we'd find several Buddie positive scenes which are NOT NECESARRY portraying Buck & Eddie working relationship or close friendship. Are those scenes Buddiebaits?

1)) Ep. 2x01 "Under Pressure" (Sep 23, 2018): Buck admired/envied Eddie's physique.

2)) Ep. 2x04 "Stuck" (Oct 8, 2018): Maddie teased Buck about his boycrush on Eddie.

Tim said that Buck has been coded as bisexual at least since Season 2. Those two scenes might be the codes to indicate Buck has interest in men, but not limited in Eddie.

VERDICT: Not a bait.

3)) Ep. 2x10 "Merry Ex-mas" (Nov 26, 2018): A stranger in Elf costume assumed that Christopher was Buck & Eddie's son.

A Buddie fan wrote this: "The writers could have easily had Buck say that him and Eddie were not a couple and Chris was not his son. Especially since the writers had no problem doing just that in ep. 5x01 "Panic" when Eddie's then-girlfriend Dr. Ana Flores was alluded to being Christopher's mother and she said that she wasn't his mother just a friend."

I agree with the commentary. It is the writers' deliberate decision that Buck didn't deny the allegation when he had the chance. This scene seems to be a nod to Buddie shippers. However, the scene was aired on Nov 2018. I don't think anyone had been harassed by the toxic shippers by then. The writers might think it was a harmless inside joke between them and the fans.

VERDICT: More like a joke, not a bait.

4)) LS ep. 2x03 "Hold the Line" (Feb 1, 2021): Eddie showed up right in front of Buck, after TK mistakenly alluded that Buck was hitting on him.

This scene DIDN'T CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING to Buck & Eddie's working relationship or friendship. Even worse, by the time this episode was on air, both Ana Flores (first seen on ep. 3x12 "Fools", aired on Mar 23, 2020) and Taylor Kelly (first seen on ep. 2x06 "Dosed", aired on Oct 22, 2018) have been portrayed as the love interests of Eddie and Buck (they had been flirting/hooked up on screen). This Lone Star scene is sending a false message to Buddie shippers, and should not be made at all. I don't see any purpose of this scene other than to be A BAIT to KEEP the INTEREST of BUDDIE SHIPPERS, because each BUCK and EDDIE HAD DIFFERENT CANON RELATIONSHIPS which WERE PROGRESSING ON SCREEN.

VERDICT: A bait.

5)) Ep. 4x14 "Survivors" (May 24, 2021): Eddie made Buck the legal guardian of Christopher. Kristen Reidel, the showrunner at the time, insisted that the gesture was platonic. She drew the inspiration from her personal experience. Her mother was a single parent who listed a best friend as Kristen's legal guardian instead of Kristen's own grandparents. The scene was meant to show the depth of friendship between Buck & Eddie, and how much Eddie trusted Buck. This is a tricky one, but because the scene had a clear purpose which it successfully achieved, I believe it is not a bait.

VERDICT: Not a bait.

Scene #6 onwards were aired in 2024. By that time, the bullying and harassment towards the actors and showrunners had been happening for years. And we know that at least Tim and Oliver had known about it.

If Tim & co. didn't want to bait Buddie fans, they should review Buck & Eddie's scenes from Buddie fans' perspective, or as other fans often said, by wearing Buddie goggles. They should avoid any possible misinterpretations which could give false hopes to Buddie fans.

6)) Ep. 7x06 "There Goes the Groom" (May 2, 2024): Buck & Eddie's karaoke scene.

They should include Henren and Ravi, or at least Ravi, to avoid misinterpretation by Buddie fans. Unless, THE MISINTERPRETATION IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY AIMED FOR.

VERDICT: A bait.

7)) Ep. 8x06 "Confessions" (Nov 7, 2024): Eddie talked about beards, right after he mentioned that he was straight.

For anyone who doesn't know, 'a beard' is a common slang for a fake romantic partner whose purpose is to conceal someone's sexual orientation. Eddie mentioned beards right after he said that he was straight has made Buddie shippers interpreted the scene as a sign that EDDIE WAS HIDING HIS SEXUALITY.

Can the scene be written without mentioning beards? Well, here's the actual conversation on screen:

Father Brian: "And you you have that... very handsome mustache."

Eddie (chuckling): "Do you wanna know why I grew this?"

Father Brian: "Tell me."

Eddie: "Because the LAFD doesn't allow beards. Too flamable. Otherwise, I'd have gone full mountain man."

Father Brian: "So, it's a disguise?"

Eddie (averting his gaze): "Something like that."

Father Brian: "What're you afraid of seeing when you're looking in the mirror?"

**************

Here's an alternative conversation WITHOUT talking about beards:

Father Brian: "And you you have that... very handsome mustache."

Eddie (chuckling): "I'm glad someone likes it."

Father Brian: "Nobody else likes it?"

Eddie: "Well, sometimes my friends tease me about it. But I think they're just not used to see me with a mustache."

Father Brian: "So, it's new? Is it a trend that I didn't know about?"

Eddie (chuckling): "No, not a trend. I just want to see something different when I look in the mirror."

Father Brian: "So, it's a disguise?"

Eddie (averting his gaze): "Something like that."

Father Brian: "What're you afraid of seeing when you're looking in the mirror?"

**************

If a non-writer like me could come up with an alternative conversation with the same ending WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT BEARDS, so could the writers. What if the conversation became longer? Then, cut some time off from the fu**king dancing scene!!! THE WRITERS CAN AVOID TALKING ABOUT BEARDS, BUT THEY DIDN'T.

VERDICT: A bait.

8)) Ep. 8x06 "Confessions" (Nov 7, 2024): Pantless Eddie opened his door to Buck and let Buck sat next to him.

There are others iconic dances which Eddie could do without losing his pants: Michael Jackson's Moonwalk, the Footloose Dance, John Travolta's Staying Alive Dance, etc. But no, Eddie had to do the Risky Business Dance so HE COULD OPEN HIS DOOR WITHOUT WEARING PANTS TO BUCK, RIGHT AFTER BUCK WAS DUMPED BY TOMMY, and BUCK COULD SIT NEXT TO A PANTLESS EDDIE 😒. This sexual inuendo only gives a false message to Buddie fans.

VERDICT: A bait.

Aren't those baits actually signs that Buddie will be canon? HECK, NO! Based on the reasons explained on another post.

D. CONCLUSION

BUDDIEBAITING IS REAL. Buddie shippers are NOT ONLY IMAGINING SIGNS, at least not some of them. The show has been giving mixed signals to Buddie stans all these years, to keep them watching & supporting the show, without ever making Buddie canon.

Katey Stoetzel has criticised some journalists paid writers for encouraging the toxic fans' behavior. Lisa Babick has criticized toxic fans for pushing their own romantic narrative over friendship narrative offered by TV shows. However, a lot still need to be said about shows which are ACTING OBLIVIOUS although their scenes could raise false expectation among fandom.

And Tevan fans need to be careful, because WE COULD BE THE NEXT TARGET.

[wenellyb]

Unpopular opinion, but I think that the reason why so many people say the latest Bucktommy scenes lacked chemistry is because they only want to see two men kiss. Nothing else.

You cannot watch Tommy spending half of his scenes being there for Buck, taking care of him, bringing him medecine, breakfast and then coffee and still think their chemistry "felt off" in that episode.

Tommy went with him to go pay a tribute to à man they both don't know.

Admit it...you just want to see 2 men kiss....

When comments like these come from Buddie shippers or anti Bucktommy blogs, I get it. But when it comes from Bucktommy fans, my flabber is gasted.

As someone who has been watching a lot of TV dramas with ensemble casts, this is the first time I've seen people complain about a couple doing normal couples thing in a TV show with an ensemble cast.

911 isn't a romantic comedy, it isn't the Buck & Tommy show either, this is an ensemble cast so they will focus on different storylines each tome. It can't focus on romantic Buck& Tommy scenes only.

For me, what we saw in episode 5 was meant to cement the fact that Buck and Tommy were in a serious relationship now.

In season 7, there were more kisses and romantic scenes because the showrunners were building the relationship.

I've never heard anyone complain about Meredith Grey and Derek Shepherd lacking chemistry because they weren't kissing or touching.

They weren't the most affectionnate couple, but everyone knew they loved eachother and for years, they were one of the most iconic TV couples.

That's just how TV works... there will be romantic scenes when there are romantic subplots but otherwise, you should expect Buck and Tommy to behave like any other couple in a TV show about first responders.

Why are people's expectations suddenly so high with Buck and Tommy?

I'm sure there will be a lot of romantic scenes between Buck and Tommy when there's an episode centered around their relationship but being upset because they weren't all over each other in a episode about Halloween, Buck's medical condition and Denny almost dying is typical M/M shipper behavior.

[dearmyloveleys]

Ever since it was confirmed that Si-eun and Su-ho were actually in love, reactions online — especially on TikTok — have been really mixed. Some people are happy about it, while others seem disappointed or try to downplay it, saying their bond was just platonic or a strong friendship. I even saw someone say it was “stupid” and just fanservice.I’m honestly confused. Didn’t the director say something about them playing it like a melodrama? it’s been years since I first watched the series. Back then, I shipped them so hard, and I was so excited when Season 2 came out.Now that I’ve rewatched it ( as i got older), I’ve started noticing all the subtle queer undertones — like that moment when Su-ho was in the hospital after he got hurt. He said, “What is this feeling?” and then added something like, “The way you talk, move, your face — it makes me cringe.”. It felt like he was overwhelmed by feelings he didn’t quite understand. Or " were we married "The way the camera focuses on Si-eun watching Su-ho with so much quiet attention… it felt intimate. Romantic, even. Like a quiet kind of awe.And then that last scene where he opens the door before saying " see you tommorow. It didn't feel platonic at all Sorry, I’m rambling. I’m just trying to make sense of all these😭

Hihi~ No worries we're all not normal about shse in this house HA 🙂‍↕️ (lmao im gonna answer you like an essay review dont mind me)

Online reactions to SHSE being canon: Yes i've seen a fair bit of online public being upset over it too. I'm afraid this is a very common reaction to any queer ships in fandoms these days (wenclair from Wednesday, jayvik from Arcane etc). When aziracrow from Good Omens was confirmed canon in the show with a whole kiss scene, a lot of first reactions were downright hateful. The public had the same reaction to SHSE being canon: Why did they have to make them gay/queer? Can't they remain close friends? The source material did not dictate this -> All of these were said even though the co-author of the Good Omens novel and showrunner of the series, Neil Gaiman (bleugh another story) greenlit aziracrow's relationship being romantic. Sounds familiar? Bet.

Back to WHC, whatever the public's reasons are, we cannot dispute words said by the cast and directors. We can read a lot of their interviews as ambiguous, but what the director says in the WHC2 play-by-play review "(수호) 시은이의 첫사랑", literally and simply means, "(Suho) is Sieun's first love". I cannot make this shit up and I have a conversant grasp of Korean. I've gotten used to and tired of to this portion of public, which in turn is pretty fucking tiring as a queer.

Queer undertones in WHC: BET. Queer overtones, in fact. I think everyone who watches it and feels that SHSE are more than friends, have different interpretations of how they came to be. The most important aspect is that all paths still lead to the conclusion that they love each other romantically and platonically. The parts you point out, they are valid evidence! So valid they're used in every SHSE edit out there. Though, I especially agree with you on the "see you tomorrow" sequence. There is just too much tension in the air to wave it off. The way they're looking at each other is so contradicted with pain and sacrifice specific to the flavour of love, all for the sake of protecting each other.

Conclusion:

We can't ship fictional characters anymore because we're making them gay even if the directorial board says they'll start tonguing each other in the next episode. Homophobia and allergic to fun, really.

And wrt fanservice, as someone online that's snarkier than I am said in a response/comment: Yes and I'm the fan being serviced. Keep this party going.

Amen 🙏