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#and to have him as a side character in a story that is literally more boring than one red hat of his..
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Early drafts/unused content in other languages
redditor AloysHellsalem posted about certain text strings that exist in localized files but are missing from English ones. So I took a look at the Spanish string table and tried translating them - these are machine translations, so they are bad and also funny (sometimes).
All of these seem to be some sort of very, very early draft given the number at the end of the speaker's name and because they don't even have corresponding text-to-speech files unlike files from demos/proof of concept.
More of a fun thing than anything else.
Most of them are from Saga's side of the story.
AMBIENT DIALOGUE - RETURN 2
CASEY_4585: I found more of those knit ornaments near [Witch’s] Ladle. The cult has been around here. SAGA_4586: Do you think they’re the ones behind all this? Dead people coming back to life certainly sounds like cult material. CASEY_4587: It feels like they’re connected. We need more evidence. CASEY_4588: Do you really think a ritual will do something? SAGA_4589: My rational brain says no, but maybe it’s time I leave it on the backseat. CASEY_4590: I’ve certainly had cases that made sanity look like a sick joke. SAGA_4591: I can’t believe you knew what Ikea was. CASEY_4592: What? A guy like me can’t have affordable furniture?
Original text:
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PROFILING CASEY - RETURN 6
SAGA_4984: What’s happening to Casey? CASEY_4985: I can’t turn into one of them. I won’t. Fuck it. I’ll go to hell before I turn into one of those soulless demons. CASEY_4986: Well, I guess that’s literally what they are: demons.
That last sentence may be a weird translation on my part. I'm not sure how to make it make sense.
Original text:
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Leaving the full string here, Saga profiling Casey about him feeling like a fictional character?:
MP_RE06_CASEY_FICTIONAL_SAGA_4987: being a fictional character. MP_RE06_CASEY_FICTIONAL_CASEY_4988: Was I even who I thought I was, or just an average detective torn from the pages of a bunch of mediocre crime novels? Did I exist in printing ink like I did in real life?, and vice versa? The thought always bothered me. The jokes. The similarities. The constant feeling that no amount of coffee could drown.
Original text:
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There're lines that look like bullet points or just rough ideas, like the last one here:
SAGA_6910: What’s happening to Casey? CASEY_6911: Casey is turning into a taken, blame Alan Wake for it WAKE_SAGA_6912: Wake WAKE_CASEY_6913: Casey never liked Wake, even before all this. References to cult case in New York
Original text:
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PROFILING ESTEVEZ RETURN 6
This looks like a very early draft of Kiran having a girl crush deputizing Saga into the FBC.
SAGA_4989: The FBC. ESTEVEZ_4990: Saga Anderson, she’d be a great FBC agent. She clearly has what it takes: wit, guts and drive. And she’s not backing down from a paranatural fight. I can appreciate that. ESTEVEZ_4991: I should give her the recruitment (draft?) pitch. She’d be a great asset. SAGA_4992: I guess I should be flattered.
Original text:
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SAGA_4993: What’s this “AWE”? ESTEVEZ_4994: What reactivated the AWE in Bright Falls? Does the threshold below the lake work in cycles or does it have a trigger? ESTEVEZ_4995: Whatever it is, it seemed more powerful than ever. SAGA_4996: The “threshold” in Cauldron Lake. That’s where I have to go.
Original text:
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The following one is nearly incomprehensible
SAGA_6914: Parautilitarians ESTEVEZ_6915: Estevez relives a trauma, says the area of parautilitarians susceptible to supernatural forces (???)
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SAGA_6916: doesn’t wake up ESTEVEZ_6917: They told Estevez the Dark Presence can steal forms, making it difficult to know who to trust SAGA_6918: Dark Place ESTEVEZ_6919: Estevez doesn’t know much, other than those who go there generally don’t come back.
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PROFILING TOR AND ODIN - RETURN 5
Lots of fun tidbits
SAGA_3003: Where is Tor? TOR_3004:... Polaris ... in a web of hypocrisy. ODIN_3005: Take ... Control. duh duh duhuhuh. Take ... Control ... TOR_3006: Take ... Control. duh duh duhuhuh. Take ... Control …
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SAGA_3012: The girl in the painting. ODIN_3013: I won’t remove it. That’s our family. Your (his?) daughter. TOR_3014: She left us! She took Saga and fucked off! So take that damn thing! I don’t wanna see her face!
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MP_RE05_TOR_MOTHER_SAGA_3069: My mother. TOR_3070: But I wasn’t made to be a dad. I’m a god of rock! I can take the sky, rock stadiums but can’t change a diaper! TOR_3071: My life is a fucking storm. Freya deserved better. TOR_3072: It broke my heart, but I was proud of her for leaving. She could take care of herself. And her little girl. Saga will be a fucking star. I saw it the day she was born.
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SAGA_3074: My dad. TOR_3075: …If she goes with you, she can never come back! It’s a one way trip for her. And I’m not letting a punk take me (?)! UNKNOWN_3076: (STATIC) TOR_3077: Freya isn’t ready for a nursing home. We kept it hidden for a reason! If you try this, I’ll hit you so hard with my hammer there won’t be any door left to open!
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PROFILING TOR AND ODIN - RETURN 9
Now, these are super interesting :)
SAGA_5287: Mr. Door. TOR_5288: Freya couldn’t trust that bastard! He wouldn’t have stayed anyways! It’s not in his nature! We had to go! ROSE_5289: Tor, you’re scaring the other residents. I need you to put down that hammer. TOR_5290: A father needs to protect his kids, dammit! The door is a fucking spider and I’ll be damned if I was going to let my little girl get caught on its fucking web.
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MP_RE09_ODIN_01_DOOR_SAGA_5293: Mr Door. ODIN_5294: I just can’t let you play with her heart. It’s nothing personal. DOOR_5295: Do you realize Freya will never forgive either of you for this? ODIN_5296: You’re not wrong, but… neither is my brother. Today you’re here, you’re Martin’s door, but eventually you’ll leave it behind and she won’t know why. Better she hate us than she hates herself. DOOR_5297: Then let’s see what you and your drunk brother can do.
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Weird translation that last one.
The text for "I can't let you play with her heart" can be translated more literally to "I simply can't make you play with her heart." Which doesn't make sense, at least not without more context.
The line about Martin was probably meant to say "You're Martin Door".
There're a few other tidbits but none as interesting (in my opinion) as these ones.
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twinsarekeepers · 2 days
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I’m curious as to your honest thoughts on the show? Like I love pjo and all but the show was a bit of a let down writing wise. There’s always the point of “it’s an adaptation, not a carbon copy” like yes but this new writing isn’t exemplary better than the book just because it’s rewritten by the author himself
I think the show is well-written not because Rick is attached to it, but because I actually like the way the writers are approaching adapting the source material. I have a lot of issues with the original books in terms of writing quality because frankly speaking, I don’t think Rick is a very good writer. He has a lot of interesting things in those books that he never explores or drops within the first two and this fandom gives him and the books too much credit imo.
This is why I’m not very moved when people try to ascribe meaning to a certain scene or choice he made in the books to get mad at the show for changing. As an example, one of the main things people were upset about was the kids “knowing everything” in the show when they were getting tricked left and right in the book. Many posts were dedicated to how the book version is superior because it illustrates how they’re just twelve years old kids so of course they’ll make mistakes and get tricked by monsters.
That’s a perfectly fine interpretation but I was twelve years old when I first read tlt and I was able to anticipate almost every single trap, despite being pretty gullible and naive at that age. My knowledge of Greek mythology consisted of Disney’s Hercules, maybe two Google searches, and my second grade teacher’s reading of the kid friendly version of the Odyssey. No where near the level of Percy who’d been learning for a whole year in an established class on the topic with Chiron or Grover who was literally a satry born into the world or Annabeth, who spent the majority of her life dedicated to studying specifically quests and Greek mythology and was also on the run fighting monsters for a good portion of her childhood. Like twelve year olds can be dumb but those three stumbling into every trap was asking me to suspend my disbelief too far. I remember being upset that they weren’t able to figure it out because it was obvious that Rick wasn’t making that choice to show any personality flaws or character dynamics (because he would’ve had them learn and grow but they never did they just kept being not smart), he just wasn’t able to figure out a way for them to fall into those traps organically so he had to dumb them down.
I think the show was able to get across the characters’ childishness without compromising their established backstories. Yes, Annabeth knew it was Medusa right away because that makes sense for a kid who has experience with running into monsters. But, she still acted very much like a child in her interactions with her (and throughout the episode and season). She lashed out and called her a liar and wouldn’t listen to her side of the story because it painted her mother in a bad light. That’s peak twelve year old behavior.
Yes, Percy figured out Kronos was behind everything, but it makes sense because Percy knows Greek mythology and where Kronos resides. He still very much acts like a child when he asks Hades to give him back his mom in exchange for nothing because it’s the right thing to do.
There are dozens of examples like this for a lot of complaints of the show. And this is not me saying that the show is perfect: every single show has flaws. For me, I wasn’t the biggest fan of the dialogue or the exposition dumping. It didn’t hinder my enjoyment though because I don’t think it was egregious (and wrt the exposition dumping, I expected it because the book did it and there’s really no way to “show not tell” Greek myths). I also didn’t like that we didn’t get to really see the huge clashes between Zeus and Poseidon in the weather (we got references to it through news reports but I would’ve liked something more). I was able to look past it because I really liked the storytelling and the themes the show was pulling out of the original source material.
I loved Medusa-Sally parallels and Medusa-Annabeth parallels. I loved the juxtaposition of Pan’s quest to manifest density. I loved Percy and Annabeth’s opposite trajectory in respect to their relationships with their godly parents. I loved exploring Sally’s choice to send Percy to school instead of camp. I loved explicitly coding Annabeth as autistic. I loved Luke’s backstory being brought earlier into the story. I loved the deadline passing and Poseidon surrendering to save Percy. I loved Persues-Andromeda and percabeth parallels. I loved fleshing Grover out. I loved glory vs home seeking being the central theme of the show.
And lastly, I was able to understand that with a limited number of episodes and run time (due to the nature of child labor laws!), they did the best they could and I feel like they did a pretty good job for a first season.
These are not ALL of my thoughts on the show because that would be a very long post. I gave one detailed example of why I think the show succeeded in something the fandom tries to ascribe the books and it was like three paragraphs lol. Anyway this is not the post to try and convince me that the show is bad for whatever reason you have cooked up. I’m not going to change my mind and I doubt I’ll change yours. Here’s to a season 2 that builds on a solid season 1!
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yuumcbr · 2 days
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TWST X Obey Me!
Just an idea for a crossover that I have in my head.
An important factor for the AU is that MC sees the brothers as family and vice versa, as if they were older brothers.
Yuu (mayor of Ramshackle) = MC from Obey Me!
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The AU would take place after graduation, where Yuu dates a boy from TWST and they start living together (since Yuu doesn't have much to go to).
Let's say that Yuu can't use magic anymore because of Michael's ring, maybe TWST increased the magic containment effect, or just decided not to use it because he doesn't know how strong his magic is, or even wanted Grim not to lose his place in the NRC (since he is the magical part of both of them) and after graduation Yuu got out of the habit of using it.
Well, somehow Yuu, Grim and her boyfriend get in touch with the queen of the rose kingdom.
Why her? Well, in one of the events of Obey Me! (Like a dame) Diavolo says he is friends with the Queen Rose and the event has roses for everywhere.
We imagine that the brothers haven't had much contact with Yuu since he went to NRC, maybe little letters sent by Sam's friends on the other side (in this AU they are mini-Ds, probably from greed).
However, in Obey Me! the Queen of the Rose Kingdom goes to Devilton and doesn't seem to have any trouble going from one world to another, she can help Yuu do the same.
So when the Queen of the Rose Kingdom meets Yuu, maybe at a ball or festival she attends and the two exchange contacts.
Now think about it, the boy from TWST who is dating Yuu decides to take things to the next level and asks her to marry him.
Yuu already knows the boy's family, they live together and maybe even work at the same job.
Not to mention that Grim acts like a real child, even though he graduated from college.
Yuu obviously accepts and asks if he would like to meet her family first.
The TWST boy knows that Yuu came from another universe, so it might be a shock.
Even more so when he finds out that Yuu is a long-time friend of the Queen of the Rose Kingdom.
And even more so when he finds out that his family is made up of the 7 deadly sins.
I guess it's best not to tell him about his position as a royal advisor, right?
Or that Yuu is an apprentice to the world's first wizard Solomon.
And that he's capable of using magic.
Yuu literally hopes he doesn't freak out.
Now, there are some TWST characters that I think could date Yuu and would make the story funnier:
1.Rollo Frame (it's self-explanatory)
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First, if you get Idia to propose to you, congratulations.
You definitely talked a lot about your older brother Levi to him, so he was expecting a bit of chaos when he met your family.
But what he didn't expect was that when he crossed the portal into the Rose Kingdom, he would end up inside the gate to Tartarus!!
He doesn't know whether to focus on collecting data for STXY or get ready to meet his family.
Wait, if you lived here before studying at NRC, and this is the land of the dead… don't tell him that you…
Please, calm this poor guy down!
The best option is to never mention that you died and came back to life in a moment (lesson 16). Just say that you came for an exchange project with the Human Kingdom and discovered that you had relatives here.
Which is the honest truth.
Finding out that you are the royal advisor of Devilton and one of the most powerful people in the place scares him a little too much.
Either the people here are too weak, or you are stronger than he imagines! He discovers that you are some kind of Ultimate Final Boss around here!!
And your family is capable of destroying an entire country in a matter of minutes, how did he get into this situation? He just wants to go back to his room and exile himself from all this craziness.
Idia.exe has stopped working.
When the two are alone:
Idia: Ahhh… when I get back I'll have so many reports to do…
Yuu: Sorry *smiles*
Idia: How come you never thought of saying you lived in hell? Literally!!
Yuu: ….
Yuu: I think I already know what will cheer you up…
Idia: … *sees you getting your DDD and calling someone*
Yuu: Oh, hi Lucifer, how are you? I was wondering if I can take Cerberus for a walk? Besides missing him terribly, Ortho and Idia admire him a lot.
Okay, you just won Idia's heart again.
Ortho is taking a lot of pictures, pictures that if he hadn't seen them in person he would say were fake edits from the Internet.
Nee nee Mayor, do you think we can see Cerberus more often? I definitely want to increase my intimacy level with him, I don't want to miss this limited time event.
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He just looks so shocked and stays silent for a long time.
Upon arriving in the city, the two of you are stopped by countless people who welcome you and complain about the city.
Why would they complain to you, anyway? Huh… what do you mean by royal advisor?
You're one of the most important people in this place? Why have you never told him that?
I mean, he knows you can't go back home, but he figured that when he found a way, he'd come back without thinking twice.
You've been working at the Al-Asim house all this time as a servant when you're literally a royal advisor from another kingdom?
You wouldn't be that stupid, right? Why would you do something like that?
Okay, Jamil's head is spinning.
He definitely wishes your clothes had a hood like they used to when you explain to your family that you decided to live with Jamil no matter what.
He would definitely be shocked if he found out that you could take an immortality potion, but decided not to take it to be with him.
When the two of you are alone:
Jamil: You could have a better life than being a servant.
Yuu: It wouldn't be better if you weren't in it.
Yuu: I don't care what I have to do, we're together, understand? I'll never let you feel alone again, that's a promise!!
Jamil doesn't know what he'll say to his parents when they ask about his family or when his sister tells him to tell them every detail of the trip.
But he knows he's with someone who will always put him first and won't let someone like that go.
A promise, huh?smiles slightly I think I can get used to this!
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I imagine Ruggie will react the same way when you called Malleus Tsuntaro in front of everyone when you two get to the house of regrets.
I mean? You live in a gigantic mansion and inside it looks like each tile costs more than all the money he's ever earned in his life!!
Ruggie is very careful not to bump into or break anything, only for one of his brothers to enter the house and accidentally destroy a wall.
Wait, he came riding a dragon?
Okay, Ruggie thought there was no way a group of people could cause more trouble than you and that group of freshmen, but your brothers managed to prove the opposite.
I don't even know what he would say when he saw Beel's appetite or when he tried Solomon's food when his brothers said they would throw it away.
During dinner:
Yuu: I should let you know that I will be officially leaving my duties in Devilton
Asmo: Huh? Are you leaving for good now?
Yuu: No, I just don't think I will be able to coordinate my work in Devilton with the wedding organization, not to mention that there is no way to convert Grim to Taumarks.
Lucifer: In that case I will talk to Lord Diavolo
Ruggie: What was your job here? - he says while eating a buffalo egg.
Levi: They worked as royal advisors, (tch these guys really don't know how to use a mage in battle) - he answers while playing an online video game.
Ruggie: Huh?
Ruggie may not have expected so many surprises like these, but he can't deny how happy he was when you and your brothers started thinking of ways to make him, you and the entire community you live in prosper.
You really are full of surprises, huh Prefect? Shi shi shi!!
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Okay, I got a little carried away, but now it won't be running around in my head so much.
Thanks for reading this far!!
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linkspooky · 3 days
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How to write the perfect revenge story with Kohaku-Sensei! What Tsukihime does better than Avatar the Last Airbender.
So a follower asked me why Kohaku was my favorite of the Tsukhime girls after I made an offhand comment on my Ciel/Noel post on how Kohaku is the perfect take on revenge. Both Noel and Kohaku's story arcs are near perfect revenge tragedies that make their characters the standouts in Tsukihime. I tried writing up just why I thought Kohaku's character was good but it kept turning into a carbon copy of this post by comun right here. Eventually I decided to dig deeper.
Why does Kohaku's revenge story work so well? Why does every other revenge story suck so hard in comparison? See the thing is I hate a lot of revenge stories in fiction because they are very shallow, black and white tales of the good guy giving the bad guy everything he deserves.
In other words, I'm disappointed by most omdern revenge stories because they display a critical lack of understanding of how cycles of abuse start in the first place, and how both sides on the conflict no matter what are equally human. Perhaps that's why Kinoko Nasu writes revenge so well, because he's a deeply humanist author who's not really focused on good guys or bad guys but rather just understanding the characters involved.
So to show just how well Tsukihime humanizes Kohaku as both victim and villain of the story, I'm going to compare it to one of the worst revenge stories I've read in fiction. Both of these stories are tragedies that kill their main character, a victim who just wanted revenge for the long abuses they'd suffered in life. However, one of these is Tsukihime, and the other one sucks. So without further ado under the cut.
ORESTES THE FIRST REVENGE STORY
So Yun is a character from a spinoff novel prequel of Avatar the Last Aribender, focusing on the life of Avatar Kyoshi. In a lot of ways Yun is like Noel. He's a completely new character, thrown into the backstory of an already established character. He also steals the show because he's allowed to be a lot more flawed and act as a villainous foil to the main character, Yun even acts as a Jungian shadow the second novel is literally called the shadow of Kyoshi.
However, there's one major difference Noel's character greatly enhances Ciel's even if she is fridged for Ciel's character development. Whereas Yun's character and the eventual ending the story gave him ruined any kind of enjoyment I could have had from the story for Kyoshi's character. In fact, I think Yun's death made the whole story fall apart thematically.
Which is ironic because it was the exact same ending. Noel's character ends with her dying by Ciel's hands. Kyoshi kills Yun with her own two hands in order to stop his revenge. In both stories the victim dies so why does one frustrate me to no end and the other ending elevates Tsukihime to one of my favorite pieces of fiction?
The devil is in the details.
Revenge stories are by their nature tragedies. It makes sense for them to, for the most part with a few hopeful exceptions have bad endings. Taking personal revenge against every single person who's hurt you grievously no matter how deserved that revenge might be does not solve the problem. In fact it creates several new problems.
This is pretty well explored tragedy in fiction, all the way back to The Oresteia. Orestes is the son of Agamemnon and Clytemnestra. If you know anything about the trojan war you should recognize those names.
The story begins like this, King Agamemnon of Mycenae offends the goddess Artemis by killing one of her stags. So, in retaliation she prevents the greek troops from reaching troy by taking the wind out of their sails, unless Agamemmnon kills his oldest daughter Iphigenia. Agammemnon drags his daughter away from his wife Clytemnestra who was crying and begging him not to and offers her as human sacrifice. Ten years later when Agamemnon returns home he finds his wife sleeping with another man, and the two of them together butcher him to avenge iphigenia.
Then in order to avenge her father's death, elektra urges her brother Orestes to kill their mother and the man she committed adultery with. Orestes eventually goes through with it out of duty to his father, but because he's committed the clan of kin slaying the gods send the furies after him to chase him down and torment him.
The revenge just continues to cycle. Orestes doesn't right a wrong by avenging his father's murderer, he just commits kin slaying a taboo among the gods. Even though he felt he had an obligation too because he couldn't let his father's murderer live, the gods don't let him live in peace. Orestes would have been chased by the Furies for the rest of his life if Athena didn't intervene and basically hold the first court case in order to rule if it was really just to punish Orestes like this.
The point of my long foray into greek mythology is that no matter how entitled each person in the revenge cycle might have felt to their revenge, in the end they were committing a horrible act. Clytemnestra was avenging her daughter against the man who killed him, but she alienated her other two children. Orestes was duty bound to avenge his father, but he still killed his own mother with his two hands. At each link in the chain there's no real innocent parties, and the moment you take revenge you become a perpetrator in this cycle of abuse as well.
That is I think a central concept that the greeks understood but many modern authors fail to grasp, that revenge is a cycle during which any time a person can become a victim of it, and also a perpetrator of it. It's not a matter of internal goodness or badness but rather an uncontrollable cycle of violence that people get caught up in.
What revenge stories should be about is escaping the cycle. When the character manages to escape like Orestes and live for something other than revenge that's a happy ending, but when the character fails to escape that's a tragedy. Whether or not a character actually accomplishes their revenge is a footnote.
The Count of Monte Cristo accomplishes most of his revenge but the act of revenge isn't what saves him, but rather the faithful love of Haydee who had always been by his side and the words "wait and hope." The Count isn't saved by the revenge he took on all the people who hurt him, but by the strength he had to wait through a terrible situation until it got better and then live on to the better future. Carrie accomplishes her revenge in burning down the school gymnasium and all of her bullies, then goes home and dies a few minutes after killing her mom the last of her abusers unable to escape the cycle.
While their endings are opposites, in both cases completing their revenge didn't give them any measure of peace at all. In fact, the Count almost in the course of his revenge committed a sin far worse than anyone had done to him by killing a newborn infant. No, any good revenge story should know that in the words of percy from Critical Role you can't murder your way to peace.
"There was nothing I could’ve done to save my family, yet I still sold my soul in search of vengeance. Later I allowed Ripley to leave, knowing full well she was a greater threat to the world than the Briarwoods would ever be. I traded the world’s safety for the belief that I could murder my way to peace; that if I could be a greater horror, it would bring my family back. And once this lie was shattered I scrambled to find a solution, to make a deal, to undo my mistakes and balance the scales. I now understand that there are no scales, there is no redemption, and no ledger that judges me good or evil. I am free to simply be myself and live with the terrible mistakes I’ve made." -Percy's Death Letter, Critical Role
In most revenge stories I've noticed that revenge is the main character motivator for the character taking revenge. Therefore the conflict becomes whether or not they can find something new to live for by the end of the story. The characters seeking revenge often make that revenge their entire reason for living, but then what next?
This quote from Oldboy a modern adaptation of the Count of Monte Cristo is relevant.
Seeking revenge is the best cure for someone who got hurt Try it The loss of 15 years the pain of losing your wife and child you can forget all this Once again revenge is good for your health But... What happens after you've revenged yourself?
What happens after you've revenged yourself should be the central question to these revenge arcs. The ones who don't have an answer to that question and are unable to free themselves from the cycle are the ones who end in tragedy.
YUN VS KOHAKU
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Yun and Kohaku are characters from a western animated series that adopts eastern themes and a Japanese visual novel about vampires. These two characters come from very different genres of stories, an adventure story about magical warriors using martial arts to bend the elements and a horror story about vampires and serial killers respectively.
However, because both Yun and Kohaku are the central figures of a revenge tragedy they end up having a lot in common. The largest common thread between them is that both of them is that they are child abuse victims, specifically the victims of long term grooming.
They are children who were adopted and then groomed by their father figure for years. In Kohaku's case, it was sexual grooming, whereas in Yun's case it was grooming him into a child soldier. The official definition of child grooming works for both of these cases, it is when an adult forms a relationship with a child to sexually assault them or induce them into doing something dangerous or harmful to them.
Kohaku and Yun are more obscure characters though so for the sake of people who haven't read one or both of these series I'm going to go more into depth on their individual circumstances.
Kohaku is an empath, born with the ability to transfer energy to other people through sexual intercourse. She and her sister were brought into the Tohno Clan, because Makihisa Tohno the elder had demon blood in his veins. This demon blood made him at risk of going through a process called inversion, where he would slowly lose all his mind, all reason, and violently attack everyone around him until he was finally put down. In order to mitigate that risk, Makishisa engaged in regular sexual intercourse with a young Kohaku and made use of her abilities as an empath to control his demon side.
As the elder of twin sisters Kohaku made a deal with Makihisa that she'd let him use her whenever she needed as long as he never touched her sister. Since he kept his word to her, she found it hard to resent him in the long term. Also, because she was constantly high on drugs that made it impossible for her to feel pain.
"So, I took in everything Makihisa-sama wanted to do. I asked him not to touch Hisui-chan because I would take everything myself. He was probably ashamed and agreed to my request. He probably also thought it was better that as few people knew about this secret as possible."
Kohaku is eventually sent to take care of Makihisa's son who also inverted, but when he loses control and rapes her too that's when she loses her last bit of humanity and starts to think of revenge.
At this point she starts to think of herself as an unthinking doll who cannot move for herself, and can only move for revenge. She eventually starts to move against Makishia, first by informing Akiha and Hisui of the abuse she's suffered. She's surprised when Akiha immediately protests what he farther was doing right away, and the sexual liason ends and Kohaku becomes a normal servant. However, even after the abuse ends Kohaku decides to continue living for revenge leading to the main plot of the Far Side of Tsukihime.
Yun is the false avatar. If you've heard of Avatar then I'm sure you at least vaguely know of the concept of the avatar, spiritual guide in the world of avatar that reincarnates over and over again to guide both humanity and the spirits.
In the avatar prequel novels it's established each nation has its own way of tracking down the avatar, but because Kuruk died early and under mysterious circumstances the earth nation was in a panic to find the next avatar. Instead of waiting for more sure confirmation, they picked one random kid on the side of the road on what was basically a hunch that he was Kuruk's reincarnation. This kid was named Yun, a nameless but smart kid with no parents who was conning people by playing Pai Sho really really well. While all along the next avatar Kyoshi was right next to them as one of Yun's servants.
Yun is trained as the avatar through years, and is put through the kind of training that only the Zoldyck family from Hunter x Hunter would approve in. Including being forced to walk on spiked caltrops to learn bending, and being forced to microdose on poison to gain an immunity. Like, this is literally what Killua's parents did to him in HXH.
"I'm surprised you can move," Jianzhu said to him, more impressed than anything else. "Poison training," Yun spat through clenched jaws. "With Sifu Amak, remember? Or did you forget every darker exercise you put me through?"
Yun is a genius earth bender, a brilliant statesman, he works all around the clock to become the avatar everyone is telling him he's destined to be but he's not physically capable of bending any element other than earth. To the point where after a year of failing to learn fire, his bending teachers frequently lambast him as being lazy and not trying hard enough.
"Your situation isn't unique" Hei-Ran went on. "History is full of Avatars like you who tried to coast on their talents. You're not the only one who wanted to take it easy." Yun slipped. An event rare enough to notice. His motion took him too far outside his center of gravity, and he stumbled on his knees. Sweat stung his eyes, ran into the corner of his mouth. Take it easy? Take it easy? Was she ignoring the fact he spent sleepless nights poring over scholarly analyses of Yanghcen's political decisions? That he'd extensively memorized the names of every Earth Kingdom noble, Fire Nation commander, and Water Tribe Chieftan back three generations on the living and the dead? The forgotten texts he'd used to map the ancient sacred sites of the Air Nomads to such a degree that Kelsang was surprised about a few of them? That's who he was when no one was looking. Someone who dedicated his whole being to his Avatarhood. Yun wanted to make up for the lost time he'd squandered by being discovered so late. He wanted to express gratitude to Jianzhu and the entire world for giving him the greatest gift in existence. Taking it easy was the last thing on his mind. [Literally a few seconds later...] "In the old days, masters used to maim their students for insubordination," she said horsely. Yun restrained himself from flinching, "What wonderful modern times we live in."
So Yun is physically and emotionally abused by all of his teachers, Jianzhu, Hei-Ran and several other adults who were complicit with it to train him up into being the avatar. Then, when it turns out Yun isn't the avatar, he's immediately abandoned and left for dead.
Yun gets dragged into the spirit world as a human sacrifice to a horrifying spirit known as Father Glow Worm. He is abandoned by his master who makes no attempt to save him the moment he learned that he wasn't the avatar. Then, in the spirit world he fights Father Glow Worm for days and eventually has to eat him in order to escape home.
After getting to a random village he asks for water. Yun is mocked by a man he saved earlier fo rasking for a single glass of water. When the man throws the water on the ground and tells him to water bend it, Yun snaps and then kills the man who mocked him, the city guard, and everyone who was sitting in the teashouse and has his Geto moment. He decides to start living for revenge against all of the teachers who abused him.
"Well," he said out loud to no one. "It looks like I've been fired." Perhaps it was for the best. He would need the free time, because he had a losit of things to do. lots of personal business to take care of. And at the top of the list was paying his respects to Jianzhu. Filled with new purpose, Yun took off down the road, whistling as he went.
Both of these characters decide to make revenge their reason for living. To quote Oldboy, "Seeking revenge is the best cure for someone who got hurt. Try it." They also face the same fundamental issue, now that they're only living for revenge then what happens after they've revenged themselves?
These characters are also similar in a couple of other ways. They are schemers who mainly work through manipulating others. Yun fakes a political conflict between the fire nation royal family and another noble family in order to bring one of his abusers into the crossfire. Kohaku manipulates both SHIKI and Shiki through the use of drugs to orchestrate her revenge in the Far Side Routes.
They're also both trickster characters. Yun refers to himself as a clown and constantly hides everything behind a smile. "He added that smirk that everyone said reminded them of Kuruk's. After all, a clown needed his makeup." A major part of Kohaku's character is that after Hisui learned about how her sister was being abused she stopped smiling. Kohaku wanting her sister to be happy, started to fake a smile and goof around the way Hisui used to because she wants to see her sister smile again.
One more similarity before I begin dissecting their differences and the way these two characters are handled is that if Kohaku and Yun were the main characters of the story their revenge would undoubtably be framed as one hundred percent justified. If they were the main characters it would definitely be a kill bill situation.
I don't think they are justified, because straightforward revenge is boring. The fact that they are antagonists is the point of each story. I'm just making an underlying point on how a lot of revenge stories suffer from protagonist centered morality. It's alright if Maki Zen'in, or The Bride kills upwards of a hundred people in retaliation for the harm that was done to them and we're supposed to root for them without thinking too deeply on it because they're the protagonists of the story. Protagonist centered morality is bad, because it makes things too centered on the protagonist and therefore if the morality of a piece of based on the protagonist it will make things too easy and the protagonist will go unchallenged.
In fact, in the story of Tsukihime itself, the entire Tohno family thinks that Kohaku 100% has the right to take revenge against them. Akiha is fully aware of Kohaku's revenge scheme. She lets Kohaku get away with her revenge every step of the way, including taking what is essentially a bullet on purpose and dying for Kohaku's revenge scheme because she believes her family deserves it.
However, because they are not the protagonists they don't get the easy route of taking their revenge against the people who deserve it and then riding off into the sunset happily. No, Kohaku practically gets her revenge handed to her on a silver platter and still revenge doesn't fix anything.
Once again, revenge is good for your health, but...
WHAT HAPPENS AFTER YOU'VE REVENGED YOURSELF?
Yun and Kohaku are both characters who either lost everything, or had no reason to live to begin with and decided to make revenge a reason for living. Both of them were unable to keep living for revenge because revenge is unsustainable. It's not something you do once and you're done, it's a cycle. The act of participating in it continues to perpetuate the cycle. As a result both of them met their tragic end.
However, Kohaku's tragedy surpassed Count of Monte Cristo for my favorite revenge story in all of fiction, whereas Yun's ending made me want to rip his book in half.
There are some differences in how their revenge stories play out. Kohaku is a very unique character. In spite of being an emotionless doll, she takes her revenge not out of anger or hate but empathy. I can't word it better than Comun so I'll just quote their post:
Hisui route ends with the reveal that Kohaku masterminded the demise of the Toono family and her motives are pretty obvious but I never expect the way she felt about it. Kohaku describes herself as not as a human, but as Makihisa’s emotionless doll. Kohaku had to constantly intake pain-removing drugs in order to endure Makihisa’s (and latter SHIKI’s) abuse and this state of not feeling anything disconnected her from her emotions. Kohaku admits that, to some extent, she did all of this because it made her feel human a little. What you would expect from this premise? Kohaku channelling her remnants of humanity into hatred for the Toono family and orchestrating her revenge. Was that what really was on her mind? Nope, Kohaku (and Kinoko himself, as Fate/Grand Order is a great evidence of) has a much more positive definition of what it means to be human. Kohaku expresses her humanity through fairness, empathy and a desire to make the situation better. Even though, Makihisa singlehandedly completely ruined her life, she acknowledges that he didn’t do it out of sadism or perversion, he did because he really had no other choice in order to keep himself from inverting and causing even bigger harm to everyone. Kohaku sees Makihisa as much of a victim of this tragedy as herself. 
Kohaku's revenge actually takes a twisted form of empathy. Kohaku doesn't have the standard revenge motivation of just wanting to hurt the people who hurt her, because she can objectively see the points of view of almost everyone involved in the tragedy.
It's a bit like Orestes where there's no true beginning or end point. Makihisa is a sick pervert and the instigator, but he also didn't choose to be born with demon blood that made him liable to turn insane at any moment. SHIKI is kind of helpless in all of this, as another person with demon blood he couldn't help inverting at nine years old and going completely insane, he's not really in control of his actions. Hisui is an innocent, and while Akiha is a part of the same family the moment she learned what Kohaku was suffering she stood up for Kohaku and made it stop.
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"But, there wasn't anything else I could do. Without a purpose like that, I couldn't live. A doll cannot move on its own. Without anything to guide it, it can't move." "But still--" ...... That is unforgivable.
Comun frames Kohaku's motivations as genuinely believing the world would be better off without the Tohno bloodline, because it only has caused everyone involved with it suffering. Therefoer she makes a plan to kill every member of the family, except for Hisui and Shiki who are technically innocents, and then herself finally so Hisui can run off into the sunset together with Shiki who she'd always loved.
I'd also add that on top of empathy there's also a certain justice in her actions. Not justice in the sense that she has to hurt the people who hurt her, more like justice in the sense of fairness? Like, Kohaku isn't driven by personal hatred but rather a desire to make things fair and balance the scales. A family like the Tohno who cause misery to everyone shouldn't exist, because people shouldn't have mixed their blood with demons in the first place. There has to be a consequence to Makihisa's actions because you can't get away with child rape and the only one who could enforce it was her. The same way that Kohaku considers everyone's opinion equally and considers everyone equal victims in this twisted family cycle of revenge, Kohaku also acts to make things more fair.
To quote Percy again, it's like she's trying to balance the ledgers.
"And once this lie was shattered I scrambled to find a solution, to make a deal, to undo my mistakes and balance the scales. I now understand that there are no scales, there is no redemption, and no ledger that judges me good or evil."
Kohaku's also constructing a narrative around her pain. She needs a reason to keep living, and that reason is the narrative she's constructed, the story she told herself that she only half believes that everyone would be better off if everyone associated with the Tohnos, herself included, except for Hisui and Shiki died off.
Of course this is just a narrative. A lie she is telling herself to justify her actions. Because Kohaku acts out of fairness, and empathy, but she also acts for the sake of acting. She wants a reason to move, because otherwise she would just be a doll, passively enduring suffering. The story she tells herself is in the end a lie, like all stories are. Kohaku ignores the feelings of two people in her assumption that everyone would be better off without the Tohnos, that is her own personal feelings towards Akiha, and Hisui's feelings towards her. Kohaku understands that the reason Hisui can't smile any more is that she's too horrified at all the things her sister endured to protect her. However, she can't grasp that killing herself in front of Hisui would just make Hisui live with that guilt forever. That Hisui would rather be miserable with her sister alive than happy with her dead.
(From the good ending)
"Nee-san......? Nee-san, hold on......!!" A desperate cry. Seeing that, the girl smiles like a child. "...... Huh? ...... Don't do that, Hisui-chan. Crying like that, it feels...... like back then." "What---Nee-san, why----" "...... Yeah, because if I, don't do, so, you won't be, able to return, to the way, you were." Her words in pieces, and with glazed eyes, she speaks to Hisui. "---------Nee, san." Hisui's face contorts in grief. Her tears flood her face. "...... Why? That's fine. I was okay with the way I was. If you were happy, then I was happy. I---I was always protected by you, so---" I was always happy. Painfully, she swallows her last words.
Yun is in comparison less magnanimous towards his abusers. He wants more straightforward revenge against his teachers and all the people who "lied" to him by promoting him as the false avatar.
This is the biggest area where he differs from Kohaku. Rather than Kohaku, I'd say he's more like Geto, someone with a savior complex who genuinely put their all into being good because they believed they had the responsibility to save people, only to be then betrayed by those same people they were working so hard to save.
I do still think empathy is the central motivation for both characters. Kohaku commits revenge out of a twisted sense of empathy to see the perspectives of everyone involved and decides the only way to fix everything is to destroy it all and wipe the board clean and give the two innocents in the Tohno Household a fresh start.
Geto and Yun are both high empathy individuals whose empathy for other people twists them so much when they're confronted by human ugliness and selfishness, that they end up turning on the same people they wanted to save. They feel a bone deep empathy that twists them into monsters because they're not able to exist in an unfair or imperfect world that isn't the way they imagined it to be.
'...no matter what, I hate non-sorcerers. But it's not like I hate everyone at Jujutsu Tech. It's just...' It's just that it was what Geto had to do. In some ways, Geto and Yuuta were the same. Geto was too sincere. To someone like him, the reality that the world of sorcerers presented to him was just too cruel. '...that in a world like this, I couldn't be truly happy from the bottom of my heart.' To live for the purpose of being yourself. And for that goal, Geto could only continue to pursue his twisted dream, drowning himself in the curse that lies in the gap between ideal and reality. This was the final confession of a man who could only choose to warp himself, who had erased himself in pursuit of his goals. The only person who could bear such a curse was Gojo Satoru. JUJUTSU KAISEN ZERO LIGHT NOVEL
Geto is broken by the idea that all of his comrades and himself are considered expendable, and they're all meant to sacrifice themselves for an ignorant public. Yun is broken by the fact he broke his body and mind trying to be a great avatar because he wanted to help people, only to learn that it was all for nothing because he was discarded the moment it turned out he wasn't the avatar.
(Yun is more Morgan Coded but that's a different post).
It was too late. "I dedicated my life to people like you." Yun said. He couldn't tell if he was laughing, crying, croaking out beastial sounds of fury. "I wanted you to thrive. I wanted you to prosper. I tried so hard."
However, I'd say both of them Kohaku and Yun are driven by an underlying idea of fairness. They're not taking bloody violent revenge for personal gratitude, but because they can't cope with the unfairness of the world they're living in and are trying to find some ways to balance the scales.
Yun is so driven by fairness that he doesn't want to punish Kyoshi even though she technically stole the title of avatar from him. He considers her innocent of the whole thing, and even sympathizes with her and the struggles she carries right now as avatar.
"I can't believe you think I would ever hurt you." He gently tugged the closed fan out of her right hand. "You, the one innocent party in this whole affair! I would never hurt you, Kyoshi! For Yanghcen's sake, I used to be your whole life.!" He dropped the weapon and it pinged against the ground. "I know what's happening here. Your duties have gotten to you haven't they? I remember what it was like, carrying the weight of Four nations on my shoulders. Jianzhu used to liken them to unruly students in a classroom, requiring the guidance of a strong hand." He paused and chuckled, "I used to believe it meant showing the wya, leading my example. Now I know better. The world is a child refusing to listen, creaming in a tantrum. It needs to be slapped a few times until it learns to be quiet."
I think this is essentially the difference that makes one narrative and breaks the other. Nasu is fully aware of Kohaku's humanity even as she calls herself a doll. He goes to great length to demonstrate Kohaku's humanity in all the ways I pointed out above, by showing how much she sympathizes with others, by how she protected her sister, by how she's guided by principles.
More than anything, it sympathizes with Kohaku by making us as the reader understand that while she did bad things it was in retaliation to an even more horrible evil done to her. Also, that Kohaku only did these things because revenge was the only way she could think of to live, Kohaku was just a victim coping in the worst way imaginable. I think Nasu really nails down the hopelessness of someone who's clinging to revenge because they can't think of any other reason to live.
Whereas so much effort is put into Yun's backstory and detailing all of his suffering, only for him to be treated like a very standard villain. Like, honestly, Geto is a genocidal maniac and he's framed way more nicely by the story he's in than Yun. All Yun really wants to do is kill his abusers and that is apparently a sin too deep to continue living with.
Geto who does way worse things than Yun, and who is also killed by his former best friend is shown way more love and acceptance in his ending than Yun is.
This was the final confession of a man who could only choose to warp himself, who had erased himself in pursuit of his goals. The only person who could bear such a curse was Gojo Satoru. Where did it go wrong? And how could they start over again? The answer was left in their far-away, far-away youth. And even considering everything that had happened until now, it was clear that this story was about to end. But, there was one thing that was concrete. Even if everything was different now, there was still one thing that - from the very moment it all started - had never changed. Gojo knelt down, meeting Geto's eyes as he sat there. '...Suguru.' '...?' Geto Suguru. It was a named that the Jujutsu Tech organization feared: one of the four special grade sorcerers, who had killed over a hundred ordinary people, who had been named and exiled as the most evil curse use. But to Gojo Satoru, he was —— '————, ————' '...ha.' When he heard the words Gojo blurted out, Geto couldn't help but laugh. Such embarrassing (t/n: makes you self-conscious) words. Even why they were students, those words had never been said before. 'You should've at least cursed me a little before the end.'
In the actual manga of JJK too, Gojo tells a teenage ghost of Geto that if his adult self was there he was the only one who could have satisfied him. Gojo thinks about how he has to finally catch up to Geto after being left behind that day, when he moves on to kill the higher ups. Gojo's dream of protecting the youth came about because he never wanted someone to suffer alone like Geto did again.
Whereas, this is basically the only thing Yun gets told from his best friend and the hero of the story who is supposed to be the chosen spiritual guide of humanity chosen by the gods.
“It’s time to let go.” Kyoshi lowered her hands. “Whether you kill me here today or not, you have to let go of what happened.” “And it didn’t brting me peace. It was wrong that you were lied to, Yun. It was wrong for Jainzhu to do what he did, but he’s gone. Whatever pain and anger you have left - you have to live with it. You can’t put it on anyone else.”
Have you tried, uhhhhhh getting over it?
The "you have to live with it" is just particulary insensitive because as I went to great lengths to demonstate above, Yun was TRYING to live with it. Just like Kohaku, revenge was the only reason he could come up with to keep living.
It's fine if the heroes cannot find a way to reach out to save Yun in time and he dies because living for revenge is unsustainable. That's what happens to Kohaku, that's what happens to Geto. There's just a cruel lack of empathy in the way that Yun's death is framed. It's framed as a mercy killing, because Yun, a like eighteen year old boy who was retialiating against his abusers was just apparently so beyond hope. Not to mention that Kyohsi deliberately sides with one of the abusers and gives Hei - Ran a chance to redeem herself, but doesn't give that same chance to Yun her victim.
It's just this way that they characterize violence as bad but don't analyze at all where the violence came from or why they'd want to retaliate in that way. Gojo mercy killed his best friend Geto, but he also realized that the problem didn't begin with Geto and sought to create change in Jujutsu Society after Geto's death in order to try to break that cycle.
"I'm sorry for saying you have to live with your pain." Kyoshi put her palm into his chest in a gesture of comfort. "Because you won't." The cold she sent through his body formed a tunnel of ice between his ribs. It happened so fast, and with so much force, the air behind him turned to frost. With his heart and lungs frozen solid, Yun fell to the side.
Kyoshi kills Yun by freezing his heart. She specifically uses a technique that was taught to her to heal people, to murder him and put him out of his misery.
In the aftermath Kyoshi buries him and then lets the entire world remember him as a boy who went crazy and tried to kill the avatar. She doesn't even like... tell the whole story. That he was abused and lied to his whole life to clear his name.
Like, what a great friend.
This is what happened with Noel and Ciel too, but as I said in my Noel / Ciel post, Ciel killing Noel is meant to make her look like a terrible person. Noel is a victim caught up in circumstances, and Ciel could have saved her much earlier by lifting a finger and now that it's too late all Ciel can do is coldly put her out of her misery because Ciel isn't a hero. Shiki, a character who chops women into tiny little pieces has the opportunity to kill Noel a couple of times and doesn't do it, because he knows that killing her would be wrong and leaves it up to Ciel to decide.
Noel is fridged and dies a miserable death as a victim but it serves the greater story purpose of pointing out what a terrible hero that Ciel is. However, in avatar, the story still wants me to believe that Kyoshi is the hero so the only way they can accomplish that is by villainizing Yun and giving him an unsympathetic death.
if you wanted Yun's life to be some great tragedy, then you should let Kyoshi look bad. Let Yun died because Kyoshi completely failed to save him, have it be her wrongdoing. If you don't want Kyoshi to look bad, if you want her to be a hero then have her save Yun. You can only have it one way or the other. If the only way you can make Kyoshi still look like a hero is by victim blaming a victim of long term child abuse for not just getting over it then I don't know what kind of story you're writing there.
The writing just needs Yun to be a straightforward twist villain in the end for Kyoshi to defeat, so they downplay all of these good points and his status as the victim to make him fit into a more two dimensional role. If Yun is wrong because violence against his abusers won't solve his problem, then why is the solution for Kyoshi to just put him down with violence? Why is Kyoshi's violence sanctioned but Yun's violence not sanctioned? Kyoshi is allowed to kill Yun and put him out of his misery, but Yun can't kill his abusers? It's justice when Kysohi does it, but revenge when Yun does it? Kyoshi preaches that you can't stop the cycle with violence you have to let go then proceeds to end the cycle... by murdering Yun.
You can't preach this empty revenge bad message unless you're willing to look into why a character like Yun would want revenge in the first place, and how the world has failed him in ways that he thinks the only way to keep living is for revenge. You can't just tell him to let go without showing both him and the audience what letting go would look like.
This is exactly what Tsukhime did right with one of the most beautiful scenes in all of fiction, by showing that the cycle didn't end with Kohaku killing her abuser, and it didn't even end with Kohaku killing herself because each time she tried to enact revenge all she succesfully did was bring more pain into the world.
"But----" "Eh?" "But, there was just one strange thing." Really just a little bit. She said that as her eyes trailed off into the distance. "Akiha-sama protected me in the end. I knew there was a fifty-fifty chance she would do that. I stayed close to her for that reason. Revealing Makihisa-sama's abuse and devotedly helping Akiha-sama who was slowly turning nonhuman. ---Yes that's right. Really, I knew she would die protecting me." That smile. Even though she is smiling, she looks really sad, as if she's-- "But----I was really surprised at the time. Why is she protecting me? Why is she protecting me, risking her life?" ---She looks like she might burst into tears. "I still don't actually understand if I was actually happy or sad when Akiha-sama died. But when I wake up in the morning, I take tea to her room even though I know she is gone. Isn't this strange? Even though there's no one in that room anymore."
Kohaku thought she was relieving everyone of pain by killing the Tohno, that everyone would be better off, but the moment she succesfully kills Akiha she regrets it. It's all so hollow that she goes to Akiha's room every day for like a month leaving tea in front of her door.
Kohaku's identity is so wrapped up in pain, she forgets that in spite of the pain caused by those bonds there's also love. Hisui might not be able to smile because she feels constant guilt over how much Kohaku endured for her sake, but that doesn't mean Kohaku disappearing would fix that because she loves her sister.
Kohaku may think that Akiha is better off dead, that they're both better off dead because they only cause each other pain through their twisted connection but once Akiha is dead she goes to her door and leaves tea there every. single. day. because she valued her connection to Akiha so much.
Then she kills herself by gauging her knife out with a heart, mirroring Akiha who was pierced by the heart protecting Kohaku. "Hang in there...! Why, why did you do that...!" "Because revenge was the only thing I could do----I can only disappear when it's all over. I tried to find new springs, but I could never find one, and time ran out." She smiles. That... for no reason at all---- "What the hell is that? What are you saying...!" I look at the wound like I did to Akiha. ---She won't make it. It has pierced her heart. "........." Why? There was no reason---I just can't bear the sadness.
Revenge was unsustainable but because she couldn't be her genuine self in front of others, because she couldn't get in touch with her genuine feelings of affection for people like Akiha tshe couldn't find any other reason to live in time.
Even after Kohaku has just confessed to orchestrating the murder of Shiki's sister and terrorizing him for weeks on end, Shiki still begs for her to live though.
"...... Right? You're a normal girl who liked Akiha, was always worried about Hisui, and laughed when we talked about stupid things. So----" Even if she wished it and caused the deaths of Akiha and SHIKI... "--Kohaku, there was no reason for you to die." Increasing my grip, I say these words from the bottom of my heart.
I think that's ultimately what makes Kohaku's story superior, because it is at its heart a story about an abuse victim who couldn't find any better way of living. The story bends over backwards to show us all of Kohaku's good qualities, and how it's those good qualities that led to her fall, not any internal badness on her part. Even if Kohaku is someone who's capable of doing bad things and got a whole bunch of unrelated people serial killed by SHIKI. The tragedy is also on the onus of the main character. That's what the story of the ribbon is for, the whole thing could have been prevented if Shiki could give the ribbon to the proper girl in time. The whole thing is written with the premise that Shiki could have saved her, and he does in her route. It's as much of the main character's failure as Kohaku's.
On the other hand, the tragedy in Yun's story isn't that Yun is a longterm victim who didn't get the help he needed in time. It's that Kyoshi is sad because she has to put down her childhood friend like a mad dog. All of Yun's good traits are invalidated and he's painted as a villain to make the story simpler and as a result it's far more boring and doesn't have anything to say about abuse, or the human condition and how it survives terrible abuse like Nasu's writing does.
That's why Nasu is the goat.
At least until Tsukihime Remake comes out and Kohaku's route gets padded out with filler and turned into a giant extended boss fight that didn't need to exist at all that takes like five hours to finish NO I'M NOT BITTER ABOUT CIEL ROUTE'S TRUE END IN THE REMAKE AT ALL.
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beneaththemasks · 2 days
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not to sound socialist, but I think the fact that people defend (not just like) kalim says a lot about why the world has become like this. think about it; kalim (unlike chenya and neige) goes to NRC and not RSA and is presented as someone involved in an overblot case. and while the RSA guys are also presented as characters involved in them, they're only involved as victims (although chenya's case is arguable in my opinion) which makes the whole point of those who go to NRC to symbolize/represent the side of "those who participated in the crime" that was committed in the og stories.
while we do know that this doesn't necessarily mean they're bad/problematic people (ortho, silver, epel, etc etc etc) it does mean that they take (or will eventually take) part in some sort of incident on the side of the perpetrators. sure, this doesn't mean that those who go to NRC are never the victims, but they do have a part in allowing things to get twisted (in other words, their silence or compliance has made room for someone else's downfall). so taking all these facts into consideration, what we players know is that, as far as NRC goes, the students (characters) that belong there are known for making morally/emotionally questionable decisions in contrast to their RSA counterpart (again, chenya's case being arguable imo). and this is why kalim's case, even though he's portrayed as someone with a "sunshine heart", can't be looked through a different glass as long as he remains in NRC.
yana's message is clear here: NRC students represent someone she (the author) considers a perpetrator (active or passive) in the og movies, and ignoring this equals to ignoring both the author and story's intentions. kalim's case is no exception, and the fact that his personality has been used to "redeem" him from what he's done was probably also taken into account by yana when she wrote him (which I think is her wonderful way of exposing all of us, like a good piece of media should do). but precisely because this character (or any character ever) is playing this specific role, doesn't mean we should just let the character be (less we become the active/passive perpetrators) and rather take on a more critic approach in which we recognize and stop trying to sweep under the rug all of its flaws like we would do with a pup that's too adorable to yell at for misbehaving. I know the comparison might seem unreasonable, but I use it because it's simplicity portrays exactly what happens when things aren't addressed and/or are looked over, even (especially) if it's not on purpose. as always, one's good intentions to preserve someone's pure and innocent reputation at all costs (in this case it would be to shift the blame on jamil alone or dismiss jamil's feelings when he expresses his anger for the people that have literally oppressed and robbed him of his freedom since childhood) will backfire and, in time, innocence will turn into ignorance.
I'm aware people will read too much into this so, just to be clear, I'm not saying all of this so everyone hates kalim (or any "evil" character) but rather to bring more awareness on why and where lines need to be drawn
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rosefires20 · 4 months
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My brainrot today is thinking about just how incredible for a character Eowyn is.
Genuinely. The series might not have many female characters but the ones we do get go so fucking hard.
To me, Eowyn is literally the definition of defining being a woman for oneself. She rejects the roles she is given despite acknlowdging the importance and its mostly because she knows part of the reason is that she is a woman.
The reason why she is obsessed with Aragorn isn't because she loves him but because she wants what he has. She wants the freedom and courage and bravery that Aragorn has at every turn. She literally has multiple conversations during the Two Towers about how what she fears most is a cage. All this girl wants is the freedom to be and not be forced into a role. The best thing is that she literally gets that.
The segment of Return of the King about Eowyn and Faramir is literally about her piecing together what she truly wants. She doesn't want Aragorn. She wants freedom and the ability to choose. Faramir does nothing but encourage that in her. Their love story is literally one of the healthiest love stories I've seen in a long time because at the heart of it, their love is a place to return home to for both parties. Both go off to lead and help their people for a considerable amount of time before returning to each other but that does not diminish their bond. Even Faramir, I believe, falls in love with her bravery and dedication to her loved ones. The reason she went to Pelenor Fields and Gondor with the troops of Rohan was because she had things she wanted to fight for. She wanted to fight for herself, her people, and her loved ones. She is the one who protects Theoden after he is killed so that his body gets the treatment it deserves. She encourages Merry and helps him go to the battle because she sees her struggle in Merry. They feel helpless standing around when there are things to be doing.
Let's also not forget the fact that she was around Grima Wormtounge just as much as the King was. She was exposed to the same poison and awful words that eroded the king. It's even implied that her care for him is part of the reason why Theoden was savable when Gandalf showed up. She had the same power and bravery as everyone else even if she didn't see it in herself.
Then at the end of the day, SHE decides where she wants to go and what path she wants to walk. She walked the path of a warrior. The path of a princess/ruler. The path of a caretaker. But in the end she decides which elements truly mean something to her outside of gender definitions. That is what makes her character so incredible to me. In this she literally kills one of the biggest enemies in that battle with such a badass line.
#i could talk for ages about how i see the struggle of defining being a woman for oneself in her#she rejects the feminine roles given to her but she also doesnt quite want the masculine ones#she just wants the freedom to choose and have the same respect that men are given#she doesnt want to be belitted because she is a woman#thats literally what Faramir gives her and why she stays with him#Faramir loves her for her not anything else#he respects her as she does him#i am someone who is a woman but rejects the definitons of being a woman because they are toxic and caging#all i want is the freedom and respect of being a HUMAN being#i lend more masculine because that is where that freedom is more often but i also see how toxic that relam is too#niether side is good which is why i choose my own path and defintiom#the fact that eowyn gets such a similar story in a series written by a man in the mid 1900s is incredible#i am someone who would love to have more female characters but i do not want them at the expense of them being proper characters and humans#ive read a lot of fantasy women do not always get the agency they deserve#i would rather take fewer well written women then a bunch of poorly written female characters#lotr has that#eowyn arwen and galadriel are all given agency and the space to be their own individuals which makes them incredible characters#thats what i want out of books and ficition#god im making myself insane about my own thoughts lol#i could talk for ages im not kidding#eowyn#eowyn of rohan#lotr#lotr rambling#lord of the rings#the two towers#the return of the king
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imaybe5tupid · 3 months
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if you see absolutely anything that has kabru in it. And are unable to stop yourself from making it about L/abru (even when Laios doesn’t even appear or is irrelevant to the content in question!) and reduce kabrus entire deuteragonist-level character into wanting to fuck laios. I’m stealing something out of your house!!!!!
disclaimer: If you ship l/abru and gaf about kabru and don’t do this then this post isn’t about you 🤓
#I love kabru so much but finding content of him is so painful bro I cant#Flames flames flames up the side of my face!#I constantly consider just nuking my account and forgetting I ever read or cared about dungeon meshi many times bc of this lol#I care him so much. More than I care about dungeon Meshi as a work as much as I respect it and it’s fun to create for#I can’t be normal about this genuinely I never get like this but I turn into A.M from I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream#Laios and kabrus connection is really sweet in the end and I don’t ship it but like the ship it’s so inoffensive in abstract just not for m#But in reality every day I get jumpscared by the things people are doing to my angel#Like just do laios self shipping that’s clearly what you daft cunts actually want why puppeteer kabru free my boy#I promised I would never post like this but like it really makes me so mad lol. And want to just go back to not looking up anything online#And I already specifically curate my experience to a crazy degree.#But the way that this fandom revolves around babying laios is crazy dude#Like every single thing is about poor poor laios#like he’s the main character but it’s insane even people who LIKE him have to put disclaimers when saying even jokey mean things#Because then 1000x idpol white autistic people will descend upon them otherwise#And I say this as an autistic person of colour it’s annoying asf lol I do not respect any of you! To put it mildly!#If the only way you can engage with characters or stories is through vectors which You can personally project onto and relate to#I’m doing a lot more than fucking stealing something out of your house!#It’s the most normal thing on earth to not like the main character of a series but I feel if you genuinely hated laios#And are not just “guilty” of criticising him or appreciating his flawed character. Then the legions of cornballs will descend on you#The only good spaces are small pockets of people engaging with each other together. The rest lol nuclear devastation#but I suppose that’s the nature of fandoms lol why complain about clowns at the circus 🚶#Like there’s literally characters whose main purpose in the story IS their relationship/dynamic with laios. Kabru is NOT JUST THAT!!#He is a deuteragonist!#Treat him like one!#Like why are people talking about labru on my freaking kaburin and kabushuro posts dude free me
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sukibenders · 3 months
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Racism and misogynoir are so apparent in fandom, especially when it comes to shipping because why is it when a white male, sometimes female but I see it more with the former, character is on screen with a love interest, particularly woc, especially if they're black, and even with all the emotional scenes or just moments where they look at one another in ways different from the rest, it's met with "No, they aren't dating/the show is not going to put them together" but let the other love interest be white as well and suddenly it all makes sense? Heck, the examples I mentioned above don't even have to exist between the latter for some to STILL go and believe this rhetoric (eg. some Jace and Helaena shippers because, even if these two only interacted with a dance but yet we see Baela console Jace, after he seeks her out, apparently it's to far fetched to believe that Jacela could be a thing?!)
Sometimes it could be a headcanon that, largely, would make sense (and oftentimes was birth due to lack of respect that the poc characters could have been given by the writers *cough* TVD *cough*), and yet you'd still have people dismissing it left and right and spewing hate. At a HEADCANON! And I'm not saying that just because the other person in the ship is poc that you have to ship them, I'm not, but it's very apparent to many poc fans in fandom that unless the characters are swapping spit and doing the nasty, the possibility of them being viewed in any romantic lens feels too much of stretch even though their white counterparts don't have to jump through the same loops.
#fandom racism#and even if the characters are already together in some way you still have some in the fandom picking a part every little thing#and don't let it be a love triangle either bc even tho the main consensus is supposed to be rooting for one side#if the other happens to be poc you can BET that their will be racial undertones from the fandom used as “justification”#(mark/amber/eve even tho mark is half korean but even with that some fans still viewed him as white and used that even more to hate on amber#and use a lot of misogynior) i remember those dark days in that fandom#from the early days until the ends of the westallen to jacela its so apparent especially when the love interest is black#and its not only jace/helaena shipprs that do this but cregan/sara shippers as well#and this is coming from someone who doesn't even mind jacelaena (prefers jace/hel/baela tho)#dont even get me started on the star wars fandom & how the idea of finn and rey was too out there l#and how much racism finn & john boyega had to deal with as a result#and i just know the same will happen with percy & annabeth when rachel is added (as someone who ships all three of them too)#like you can ship whomever you want but at the same time don't ignore/be apart of this racist and hateful rhetoric#jacela#sydcarmy#percabeth#westallen#bc its the way that this can be applied to SO MANY fandoms and ships that it's exhausting#finnrey#bamon#klonnie#kennett#tvd#pjo#star wars#hotd#the flash#for queer stories too bc ill never forget how some acted about dare me even tho the afro latina character was literally being groomed!#so many examples to many to name 😭#stefonnie
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volfoss · 4 months
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i think honestly what irritates me about yoshidas work SO much is that people will tell you that banana fish is THE gay manga (ignoring the many things that came before it and were more groundbreaking, ie MW literally having on screen (or like. on panel but still.) gay sex in it and that came out like a decade before BF did) when there really isn't barely any gay rep outside of the pedophiles and the one time ash drops the f slur. like im sorry but somehow yasha, a work she wrote in 1996, has more gay rep in it but also has the same issues.
i truly do not get how people can enjoy banana fish with the rampant racism every 2 pages or the rampant sexual assault plotlines (on women and ash bc he is just... written like how yoshida writes women lmao) that are handled IMPOSSIBLY bad and sincerely i hoped yasha would be better because it had been like a decade or so between works. and then it proceeds to continue with the heres our blonde genius protagonist who everyone is weird as fuck to and will sexually harrass and everyone finds it a VERY funny joke to point out how feminine he is when theres barely any women in the work (if you exclude the ones that are being raped/killed/creepy to minors. which to be fair yasha has toned down the sa a LOT) and that its funny that hes kind of gay except not really!! and its just absurd to me how it just persists in all of her stuff because she is not an author that handles gay stuff well. like the scene in banana fish where ash is completely ok getting gang raped and did it solely to get into the hospital when its been SHOWN that he has a lot of trauma with that. and then right after his friend makes a joke at ash's expense about that. like sincerely and genuinely is this what we are hyping up as the old retro gay manga. go read some tezuka and stop reading shit that the most the main characters do is share a kiss in a nonromantic sense and is obsessed w making every gay person be evil!!
#twist rambles#sorry mw u will always be famous to me (horrible fucking manga to experience for like 50% of the time but also it rocksss and theres#about anything tw worthy in there but i wish more ppl did read it)#sorry im like. i like to read her stuff bc her art is interesting to me but oh my god it makes me so angryyyy#rape mention#ask to tag#like... you do not understand my one sided rivalry w her it is SO intense like... bf was one of the worst reading experiences ive ever had#my tzk gay recs are: black jack (protag literally has a transmasc ex bf) and mw (for aforementioned reasons but its like. genuinely bonkers#and honestly there r a lot of minor characters that r lgbt in his works and like. can we please read smth that doesnt suck 100% of the time#like idk god bf is so baffling to me bc theres NOTHING there other than like. the new horrors every chapter. and yasha seems to be reusing#some plot points so it double sucks. haunted by the one analysis showing how the two had similar themes and point 1 was literally child#exploitation like... man. god it sucks. like not that mw is perfect bc its not and its a media i have a lot of thoughts on but man. id take#that over bf anyday bc like... sincerely how is anyone looking past the horrors there!! the story is a jumbled mess and it rly doesnt have#much to sayyyy but whatever lol!! id love if the characters were in a better media id love if ash didnt end the story feeling positively#towards the man who groomed him but whateverrrr lol#this is super disorganized as a post but like. genuinely it is so infuriating bc some of the plot concepts in yasha have potential and then#she keeps doing this like!!
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kosmiccarma · 1 year
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I'll add myself to the pool of ppl who (might delusionally) believe gojo ain't dead dead
#karma.talks#jjk manga spoilers#jjk 236 leaks#listen. I was cackling in the work parking lot this morning looking at the server leaks#1. narratively his death would serve nothing for the plot. and the whole fight wouldn't have moved anything forward#2. head ain't cut off. eyes aren't destroyed. shoko and angel literally still on the same continent. body could be healed easy peasy#3. gojo was saying bye to his dead friends instead of them welcoming him? so he could be goin' off to limbo#or have his second enlightenment hit within the next couple chapters to off sukuna once and for all. and get to kenny#and 4. uhh kenny??? he still exists gege. can't have a fight with him paired with anyone else tbh just wouldn't thematically fit#best of both worlds scenario: kids kill sukuna with gojo's resurrection#gojo goes on to fight kenny. kenny dies by the six eyes and/or infinity once and for all and gojo sacrifices the six eyes and/or infinity#so kenny can no longer body swap and will end the tale of his terror. geto comes back into consciousness for a couple more moments#OR his body is at peace once and for all and THEN gojo dies from wounds / overexertion of his cursed energy#OR gojo lives but remains a normal human w/o the six eyes or limitless. and this is bc he cheated death twice and that's the toll#gege make some of this happen or you've given a good side character a nonsensical death (within the scope of the story and character arc)#give it 10 chapters to see where this goes. if he's dead dead that's a fumble of an ending to their fight and a death scene#btw if anyone wants to talk abt this more just DM me I ain't fighting the tag system over more spoilers
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vault81 · 2 months
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Just thinking about it, but it's kinda weird how your dead spouse is kinda just glossed over when it comes to the fo4 romances, besides Preston (iirc)
like my partner just died like 4 days ago but let me just romance this guy I just met, as far as I know, Preston is the only companion to actually address this in his romance. Like its just a weird writing choice to me, not to mention that the spouse gets like 2.5 seconds of screentime and gets only a few mentions during the main quest.
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gammija · 2 years
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i love s4, and im enjoying listening to it with the magaday, but i forgot it would also lead to the worst thing: seeing people interpret media differently than me on the internet OTL
#NOT a big deal#but as an enjoyer of nuance and complicated characters and the tragedy of people doing their best and still failing#I can't help but want to constantly correct posts saying 'Georgie said she prefered Jon dead!' (she didn't#; Jon accused her of that and Basira asked her to leave before they could talk it out)#and 'everyone is blaming Jon for Tim and Daisy's deaths' -> only Melanie is��� as far as we've heard;#not that everyone is being nice or fair to jon; not at all#but this framing of the situation as jon on one side and everyone else on the other is just so much more boring#than the web of relationships and mistakes and misplaced blame that is implied#and the former is how you get analyses that are objectively wrong like 'no one let Jon speak in 199!!' -> literally by word count and#time spend speaking he talks the most out of anyone in the discussion#but it's not 50/50 jon/others because every character in tma is the protagonist of their own story#like of course it wouldve been nicer if georgie had immediately protested that she didn't want jon to die#but playing that out in my mind; it feels like exactly the kind of argument that jons ex specifically would be tired of having#even if the context is different now#and to me the way it's possible to construct these unspoken reasons and stories for the side characters is the coolest shit#and that's lost if Georgie just said 'I hoped you died Jon‚' because... ? because it's s4 so everyone is just mean to Jon?#even though she's the one visiting him in hospital in the first place?#joos yaps#delete later#nah she's just a mean girl. mean women bullying jon all season#nothing more to it than that
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dazais-guardian-angel · 5 months
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delighted that i'm so much more fond of chuuya at this point than i was just a couple years ago. it took the stormbringer play, the cannibalism play, and the fifteen manga (still haven't gotten to those two novels in their entirety, I Will Soon I Promise), it took 6ish+ years, but i can confidently say I Get It Now. Now i just need asagiri to break him (affectionate) in the manga and actually give him a character arc already <333
#i went through my own character arc okay i have Learned#still don't really get it from the pre-light novels era but i definitely get it now#he's actually written so well in those lns it's astounding. now fr if only that could be transferred to the actual manga *sigh*#if you can't tell i'm still so pissed and betrayed by the meursault arc. on all fronts lol but chuuya was one of the worst victims ughhhh#i may be hyped about this fyodor shit rn but do not mistake that as me forgetting how angry i still am over all that anticlimactic bullshit#happy birthday chuuya you really deserve so much better </3#been thinking so much lately about what asagiri is planning for him. or if he's planning anything at all. the signs are so contradictory!!!#i know the fandom made him a huge thing from the early anime days when he probably wasn't meant to be more than an extreme side character#why? again i still don't understand (shipping. it's shipping okay; that's why i was always unfairly biased against him lmao)#but even if that's the case then he wrote the light novels that are SO GOOD so like!!!!#now there's buildup!!!! now there's expectations for him!!!!!!#you can't just never have verlaine and adam not come back in the story again at some point#in the same way that ango did from a light novel#and how oda HAS to be addressed by the end of the story#and all the lore bs in 55 minutes#just WHAT ARE YOU PLANNING WITH CHUUYA ASAGIRI. I NEED TO KNOWWWWWW#THE SIGNS ARE VERY WORRYING BUT IN A COMPELLING WAY AND I NEED THEM TO PAY OFF SO BADLY#me going literally insane lately over a character i still claim to not be one of my favorites. lmao
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agendratum · 7 months
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nothing like thinking, okay maybe this guy that played ai di has other roles, like sure it won't be the same character, but like maybe it will be something, i can watch other dramas, there are people xuan lu i do it for- nope he literally has one more drama (and it's probably not what i need)
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grimmjowjaegerjaquez · 8 months
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if i was someone with any kind of consistency i couldve been known for ach'm. my stupid sexy frog man. (who is also a cyborg)
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butterflyeffectiooon · 8 months
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I really really REALLY think the story would have been stronger without august and day’s mom tbh. Actually even tho I didn’t like the august sub plot I can see how it made sense to help bridge the gap between day’s seeing life and his new blind life. But his mom? She wasn’t necessarily the one who kept him cooped up in his room for a year, I mean she didn’t help but day was also doing it to himself. Now in ep 10 tho she absolutely put him on house arrest and I’m really not happy about that. This is kind of all over the place but the point is, so far she hasn’t been that important to the plot and doing this whole failed-at-best eye transplant bullshit just for her to come to terms with his blindness is just. What the fuck. Everything that happened up until this point could have happened whether she was present or not. I guess night wouldn’t have been so parentified and glass child-ed (? lol) but honestly that shit was hard to watch so I could have done without it. Day and night could absolutely still have had one-sided beef regardless of her presence in their lives. She could have died prior to the accident and the bulk of the story would be the same obviously aside from this eye donation plot and GOD I wish that were the case. Ok yes and there would be no one to oppose mhok but that’s also like. Not necessary?? The point of the show (thus far) was accepting and adapting to a new way of life and grieving and love helping you find your way out of the dark and miss girl did not have to be there for any of that…. I guess I just have a tendency to sentence characters I don’t enjoy to permanent and retroactive removal from my screen lmao but we REALLLLLY did not need to go down this eye transplant road for the fucking mom’s character development and that’s the BEST case scenario!!!!! If it works then there was no point in going up that mountain at all and what the fuck was the point of any of it really?
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