#anti nondysphoric

[chaos-in-one]

Transphobes: You can't be trans!!! You're not dysphoric and your gender is too weird and you don't even try to pass!!

Me: oh, so sad

Me: Anyways *continues to be trans*

[thee-radio-host-is-a-kookaburra]

it’s almost like transmeds don’t actually care about “real transsexuals” and just want someone to bully 🤔

[xqueerneurosisx]

Full offense, and sorry not sorry, but if a person tells you that they have an experience, and then they give you a name for their experience uh that’s all you fucking need*. Just call it what they named it.

You aren’t saving anyone or anything by trying to pick apart and redefine, or outright deny the existence of the name- you think you know something better about, for not your experience to begin with. In fact, that’s called gaslighting. You are gaslighting a random person based on your own ignorance. And yes, it is ignorant, because you didn’t fucking learn a damn thing about an experience- that again isn’t yours, if you didn’t fucking listen to the person who initially described it. Cut that toxic shit out!!

*Yes, I still do mean within safety/good faith reason.

[ramblings-of-a-liege]

our brains are so, so complex. in fact, it’s so complex that we know more about space than we do it. so, since it’s so complex, some form of endogenic system and non-dysphoric trans was bound to happen. right?

well, no, because “i no wike it wen not evewyone confowms to my stwict ruwes :((((“ /sarc

-deth

[the-alarm-system]

The Comparison of Sysmedicalist and Transmedicalist: From a former Truscum.

The debate on the moral validity of the term “Sysmed” is repeatedly brought up within pro-endo and endo-neutral spaces. As a former Truscum, while I agree that the core of sysmedicalism and transmedicalism are not the same (dysphoria vs trauma), I feel that the arguments used to justify the projection of these beliefs are very similar to another. Transmeds and sysmeds are parallel in the use of fake claiming, black and white view of the science behind their arguments, and the idea that in order to be valid one must dislike their identity.

To begin with, the idea of sysmedicalism is on who is genuinely plural and who is not. Sysmedicalists are the gatekeepers of the system community; if you do not have trauma, you are immediately viewed as fake before you can defend yourself. If not fake, then sysmeds will be pushed that endos have trauma that they have repressed. This is an argument that can be seen through the disorders most anti-endos struggle with are inflicted in order to cope with past trauma. This is a standard view in the transmedicalist community in relation to gender dysphoria. If you are a non-dysphoric transsexual, you either are ignoring it or faking it. This is also an argument that can be understood: It’s very difficult to be transgender in an unaccepting society and an uncomfortable body, so repression may be done to cope. However, these arguments deny the fluidity of gender and plurality. They state that these things are intrinsic to struggle, and if you did not struggle then you are lying to yourself in one way or the other. It denies the liberation to label diverse experiences that do not fit in the perspective of these severely hurting people. In return, they use fake claims to express the insult they feel over the idea that someone is like them but not did not endure the same they did. Endogenics are not claiming to have a dissociative disorder, they are claiming plurality. Nondysphorics are not claiming to have gender dysphoria; they are claiming transgenderism. These things, again, are not exclusive to trauma or gender dysphoria. The term plural was made with the intent to self-identify and find liberation beyond the binary view of gatekeepers, as was the term transgender, which was made without medical transition in mind. Sysmeds and transmeds also argue that these “fakers” are taking up vital resources needed by those who are suffering. This is entirely unfair, as the reason these resources are limited is because of the lack of acceptance of both things, which the plural and transgender acceptance movements have opposed. “Trenders are taking surgeries they don’t need!” is matched against “Endos are taking DID specialist they don’t need!” and the only reason behind them is that it’s the only area they can find acceptance even if it’s inside strict spaces like needing gender dysphoria diagnosis and needed trauma. Truscum and Sysmeds have some responsibility for upholding these views on ourselves by pushing how plural and transgender experiences are completely disordered and only bring misery; obviously, seeing this come from them would cause cis and singlets to believe our so-called wrongness. Those who do not appeal to the painting of wrongness must be faking right? In my experience, and this is entirely on perspective, I was influenced to be anti-endo and anti-tucute by cringe culture that circled Fake DID videos and Transgender Cringe videos. Even while I was singlet, I denied my own plurality because I was afraid of being like those I saw in the videos. While I was truscum, I denied my genderqueerness because I didn’t want to prove these horrible transphobes right. I recognize now how often Anti-endos and truscums bring up cringe subreddits to back up their points, and it reminds me of my fear back then. In order to accept myself, I had to break free from the bars put up by society and those within the community. As always, this met with backlash, but I realized that either way, I would be despised for being who I was. Truscum and Anti endos put up this illusion that the people they hate are the reason for systems and trans people being even more stigmatized when in reality the oppressor is going to hate us all the same. Calling the ones who don’t fit in “fakes” is not going to make you “one of the good ones”, and the fact that both truscum and sysmeds are against acceptance movements is hypocritical in their stigma argument. 

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To continue, it’s often that sysmedicalist warp their argument to make it seem that endogenics are claiming to have DID without trauma. Their sources are almost always DID articles rather than articles of plurality which back up endogenic existence. Doctors who are in favor of endogenic existence are perceived as ignorant of dissociation and for the denial of resources to those in need. In science, it must be met with an open mind and the possibility for more. Research is constantly shifting and changing, and the medical paradigm is never stagnant. How does this compare to a transmedicalist however? The sources they use to justify their argument are just gender dysphoria articles that don’t include the full range of transgender people. The perspective they have is closed around sources with obvious limits when the proof against them is open minded and includes professionals they deem as liars. Personally, I never understood why they would both say how ableist the realm of psychology is towards systems yet use its strictness to hurt other systems.

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Furthermore, misery is at the core of both of these beliefs, and to which I understand these beliefs come from both fear, feelings of powerlessness, and self-loathing. To refute endogenics, anti endos bring up how miserable it is to be a system. They push their preference to be singlet and final fuse as a reason for why they are actually plural. This is familiar to transmedicalists; there is a video by Kalvin Garrah where he states that if he had the option to be a cisgender girl, he would do anything for it, as dysphoria is one of the highest forms of suffering. He argues that in order to be actually transgender, you would have to hate being trans. These feelings are valid to oneself yes, but they are projected onto endogenics and non-dysphorics as an answer to why they don’t exist. Plural and Transgender joy is rejected in these spaces because it goes against the guidelines they follow in order to be valid. If your entire existence is only because of disorder and pain, then if you’re happy in it, aren’t you as bad as the others? These are traumatized people who go after others in order to uplift themselves and appeal to singlets and cisgender people. These spaces have intersected because of how similar the arguments are(This is not to say that there isn’t an exclusionist issue within endo spaces, there definitely is, but what they are doing is just hypocrisy), and they constantly feed off gatekeeping to make themselves feel valid enough.

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In conclusion, truscum and sysmeds use fake claiming, closed-minded arguments, and projection of misery to debate why those who are unlike them are illegitimate. The medicalization of transgenderism and plurality compared to the push of acceptance is going to instead further the stigma. This essay was written to compare the two in the sense of their use of arguments, not to say that they are purely the exact same, even at the core. This essay is open to discussion as I would like to improve my writing for the future. The future is plural, which is why we fight.

[just-antithings]

i remember some old anime like cyborg 009 and astroboy would have small fandoms that'd still attract some terrible antis and exclus. they'd support ace people (yay! though mainly only because the one big anti and one of her friends were ace) but would spend time trashing on nonbinary users or any trans people that were nondysphoric or any "genderspecials" they hated. there was even a proshipper among those parroting the same bigoted views, but the antis just vibed with his meanness.

ugh

[transmeds]

it's so crazy to me how much the inclusive/ progressive/ tucutey crowd hates detransitioners it will never not be insane to me. it's so telling to me, i don't give a damn about detransitioners i actually like them and most transmeds i know are the same way. but anti transmeds? it's so telling. i think if you were completely secure in yourself, your gender and Identity you would not feel threatened by those who have a different experience than you. it's crazy to me. it will always be interesting to me the way i see detrans people being dismissed.

nb4 "transmeds are threatened by nondysphorics-" we are not threatened by you existing as "trans" people we are "threatened" by the geniune damage caused by you. detransitioners do not cause damage to warrant this fear you have of them.

[scp5069]

ok, i was thinking about making this post for a while anyway and i saw something that reminded me of it, so here's my attempt to explain it

when we talk about kffers, we mean people who use the word kin to mean "relating to and/or roleplaying as something", not people who don't take their alterhumanity "seriously enough" (which is not something you can be guilty of, otherkinity can be fun just as much as it can be serious)

when we talk about the issues with kffers, we do not mean that the kff experience is bad or that what they are doing is bad. we mean that kffers using the word kin to mean something that it has never meant is causing harm to the otherkin community and making it more difficult for us to find each other. kffers coining and/or using a new word is all we're asking for (and being more respectful of otherkin in some cases, but that's not the point i'm making here)

saying that kff are not otherkin is not gatekeeping and it is not comparable to being a transmed or being anti-endo. the definition of being transgender is identifying as a gender other than the one you were assigned at birth. nondysphoric trans people identify as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth. they fit the definition of being transgender, and therefore, it is gatekeeping to intentionally exclude them on the basis of their lack of dysphoria. the definition of being plural is having multiple people collectively sharing a single body. nontraumagenic systems are multiple people collectively sharing a single body. they fit the definition of being plural, and therefore, it is gatekeeping to intentionally exclude them on the basis of their system not being formed through childhood trauma. the definition of being otherkin is identifying partially or wholly as something other than human. kffers do not identify partially or wholly as something other than human, and often make a point of stating that they do not identify that way and are not "serious kin." they do not fit the definition of being otherkin, and therefore, it is not gatekeeping to say that they are not otherkin. if the definition of "kinning for fun" was "identifying as something other than human for fun", then the argument that it's gatekeeping to exclude them would have some merit, but that is not and has never been the definition of "kinning for fun." if you do not identify partially or wholly as something other than human, you are not otherkin. kffers are, by their own words and definition, not otherkin.

i'm probably not going to reply if there's disagreement on this post, but i figure it's worth saying, even if it's been said before

[sophieinwonderland]

Honestly I'm wondering how much of the transID discourse around "want to be" vs "is" is just... well, in transgender terms, how someone IS their gender but WANTS* to transition to better match that. Like for my transx identities, I want to have my bodymind match the identities that I am more closely, and "want to be" is the best I can do in this imprecise language. As in, wanting to be it on a physical or neuropsychological level, not just on the level of internal identity. It's the same for my transgender identity - I am pangenderfluid (as well as altersex), amd want to transition to more closely resemble my physical ideal (at least, in a non-shapeshifting form lol).

(After all, the dysphoria for me comes from NOT being, on some level OTHER than innate identity, the identity that I am. I'm not dysphoric because I am, say, transmexican and am mexican on every level including physical and cultural, or because I am trans-MADD and have and experience all symptoms of MADD. Those identities mean there are things I feel I SHOULD experience, but DON'T.)

*Many trans people NEED to transition, but I have absolutely met trans people who WANT to, whether that's alongside needing or simply nondysphoric trans people wanting to who are like "I'm happy now but could be happier". Although, I've also even met a trans person who feels they DID choose their gender, and I think saying that the existence of people like that alienates the transgender community is just catering to assimilationists. It doesn't matter if it's a choice or not because bodily autonomy should not be denied regardless.

Either way though, I think the divide could be solved by just... coining labels with both meanings. Like modern discourse is so against labels having multiple meanings, but that's just??? how words work??? Any identity can be both "is" and "wants to be" and "is" and "wants to be" can even mean different things to different people!

This is an interesting point I hadn't considered.

I just think the "wants to be" terms creates a false perception. There's a disconnected where, when people hear that someone "wants" to be something else, they might interpret that the same way they might if I said "I want to be a billionaire" or "I want to fly."

I don't actually identify as being rich or being able to fly. They're just things I think would be cool, and I personally don't think that most transID people are "wanting" to be something else in the same way I want to be rich or have superpowers.

But it's not me that needs convincing. Here's an example of a anti-trace post that was recently made in the transID tags...

This is who you need to convince. People who see those who are born POC identifying as white, and automatically jumps to assuming they must be doing so because they want the privileges associated with whiteness.

And the problem is that it's not an unreasonable perception if what you're hearing from the transID community is usually "we want to be X."

I think the transID community needs to do a better job communicating that these are internal experiences first, and that when they say they "want" to be something else, what they're usually saying is, as you say, that they want their minds and bodies to match with their internal experiences and self-perceptions.

Understanding has to be built on a foundation of solid communication.

[satoriships]

《Welcome to Satori Ships》

▪We are proship.

▪Pro-Endo

▪Anti-harassment

▪Pro-Para

▪Pro-choice

▪Pro-MOGAI

▪Pro-mspec gay/lesbian

▪Pro-nondysphoric trans/nb/etc.

▪Pro-weed

▪We support kink at pride

▪Anti-transx/transid

▪ACAB

▪Anti-psych

▪Anti-Radqueer

▪We will engage in discourse on all of these subjects.

▪We will follow blogs that disagree with us on this on the off chance that they may change our minds.

▪Before you scream cultural appropriation at us, our family is Tibetan Buddhist, we have heavily discussed this with them and they agree that the similarities between tulpas and the Buddhist sprul pa are minimal at best, and that the people saying it is appropriative do not know anything about our beliefs and culture, as anyone that did would know how different they are.

[chaos-in-one]

“If you aren’t dysphoric then you’re just choosing to be trans” Me, literally having first mentioned thinking I might be a gender other than my agab when I was 8 years old:

[queerautism]

hi! hope you're doing okay :)

i'd just like to ask a few syscourse questions if thats alright! please dont feel like you have to answer this ask, and if you do, you dont have to answer every question! ^^;

why do people call anti-endos sysmeds? like i kinda get it but there's a difference in being transphobic and trying to keep a disorder a disorder..? im very confused. and ive also heard from a lot of anti-endos that they're nondysphoric trans people, which makes them highly uncomfortable to be called sysmeds.

what makes an endo system an endo system? sorry if this question is weird but i cant really think of any other way to phrase it.

why is it so important that endos share DID/OSDD spaces? endos are systems, yes, but i feel like it's different from disordered systemhood, if that makes sense? not in a bad way, just in a like... these experiences are similar but not the same, yk? ^^; (sorry if none of this makes any sense at all. my brain and body are very bad today ^^;) im endo-neutral btw! i've been both pro- and anti- endo in the past, now im just running along the fence i suppose! ^^;

1. If sysmeds don't like the comparison to transmeds they should use the exact same arguments. Their identity doesn't give them a pass. They're not "trying to keep a disorder a disorder", they're trying to pretend plurality is always a disorder, which is very much not the case for a lot of us.

2. An endogenic system is any system that does not originate due to trauma. There's many other possible origins, it's basically an umbrella term for many different plural experiences.

3. Why on earth should we separate everyone, instead of sharing a community and finding solidarity with each other, to fight societal ableism together?

I can't tell you the amount of posts I've seen in the traumagenic tag from young systems looking for help and community, but they end the post with a big ENDOS DNI - And I know the experiences they're talking about are things that plural people in my inclusive community have discussed before, including endogenic systems, things they could find help and understanding for here if they weren't actively rejecting that community and solidarity.

Also there is no such thing as being neutral. You did not phrase any of these questions in a neutral way either.

[shaftking]

Some anti-transmed girlies are acting like the trans femboys and the he/she/they nondysphoric girlies are exactly the same and have started referring to them as their nonbinary comrades now, what's funny is that they don't seem to be targeting the cis femboys with that bullshit though, only the trans femboys. Couldn't possibly imagine why that is 🤔

Reeks of the same radfem attitude where they’re all like “idc if you identify as a woman! I’m fighting for you anyways! ❤️❤️❤️❤️” to trans men. We don’t want to be a part of that group. That’s actually the whole point.

I don’t even really call myself a transmed anymore but the basic principles I hold are the same in that it’s gender incongruence or gender dysphoria or whatever you want to call it that makes a person trans and grouping together gender conforming cis women who have extra pronouns in their bios with people who want to be men and have a penis but still happen to like fem clothes is ignorant as fuck.

But yeah. Very telling that they only ever do this to trans femboys and not cis femboys. I guess they’re too busy getting in their transphobia fix by trying to crack the cis femboy’s egg and convince them they’re actually trans women. 🤪

[tampon-eater]

Okay i think I’m actually finally making an intro post type thing

Hi bbgs I’m Slaylus (other variations include Sillyus, Shmilas, and Silussy depending on which one you find the least funny) aka tampon-eater and this is about to be the most thrown-together, annoying post you’ve ever seen let’s go

My pronouns are he/it but that’s in my bio so

I’m an avatar of the Stranger and oh yeah I’m a cancer if that means anything to anyone (I have never believed in astrology ever)

I’m a writer (kind of), and I mostly enjoy writing horror and romance, and I have a few (three) proper WIPs undergo at the moment.

I’m in a lot of fandoms, including but not limited to: wtnv, tma, tmagp, Sam and max, portal, will wood, Reanimator, etc whatever

I’m a low dysphoric transmasc, but identified as nondysphoric for a long time (since I realised I was trans really) so for some reason I’m really hesitant to say I experience dysphoria. So. Idk why I feel the need to tell anyone that. Ermm. Moving on.

Ok time for the dreaded, ridiculously long DNI list let’s go (I promise it’s shorter than it looks)

DNI: nsfw/“minors DNI” blogs (take a guess why), transmeds/truscum, creepy shit (referring to cnc, dd/lg, fauxcest, etc), dsmp fans, proshippers, radfems, exclusionists/label police, anti-kink at pride, “men DNI” blogs (I’m a bloke), South Park fans (not bc I have anything hugely morally against it, you’re just annoying as fuck), avatars of the eye, spiral, or lonely (slash jay)

Byf: sometimes I say queer slurs in a #reclaimed manner, mutuals are pretty much a foreign concept to me, I post about a lot of very obscure things

Uhhh that’s it I guess??? Enjoy

[foxfairy06]

why do you care about other people’s identities so much? we (trans/queer people) are not going to be respected by cishets no matter what, and we shouldn’t be living for their approval anyway

(also I don’t mean any of this in a rude way, your logic is just strange and I’m trying to understand what you’re actually talking about)

| Why do you care so much

I don't care "so much" I just care. The reason being because they perpetuate false information, a poor view of same sex attraction and trans communities, and erase history of labels.

Nondysphoric norms for instance imply that transitioning is not a need (because if gender is a social construct then gender dysphoria would not exist) to resolve an issue, so it would be cosmetic, meaning tax dollars and insurance will not pay for it.

| we aren't going to be respected by cis/hets no matter what

Yes we are. Not all people who aren't not cishet are evil, and a wavering minority of them are bigoted. HOWEVER people who lay in the middle will become bigoted when they see shit that no one in the right mind would say is scientific. Furthermore people who are supportive may stop being supportive when confronted with xenogenders.

I care only when this does affect people. If you want to call yourself catgender by all means, I won't stop you. It isn't my place. However, it is my responsibility to protect trans rights. So when anti trans bills are passed on the basis of xenogenders (these bills only get passed because neutrals are convinced to be anti xenogender, not anti lgbt, but this ends up harming the trans community), when sex transitional chemicals and surgeries are classified as cosmetic because people want to define gender as a social construct, making being trans a choice, when these harms arise, I have a need to speak up about it.

If what you're doing does no harm, i leave you be.

I have literally converted bigots to supporters because their only reference for what lgbt people are like is based on the idea that gender isn't real, and other inclus arguments.

So to answer your question TLDR, i don't care if it doesn't harm a community's progress, unless there is biological proof you can't change the thing that slows progress in which case we need to convince society.

It's amazing that you want to understand my viewpoint but I can already tell you're asking from a biased perspective. The reason I joined the exclus community is because the exclus community is less angry than the inclus community. The inclus community does more attacking, more harassing, more censorship, and more harm in the community. So I chose this community and chose science.

[corrupted-os]

Before You Follow

This isn’t really a DNI, just a warning that we’ll block (most) people who go against these.

We Support:

Endogenic systems or otherwise non-traumagenic systems, including purposely-made and tulpa systems

Self-diagnosis

“Contradictory” identities (such as mspec lesbians/gays)

All forms of good-faith identity

Nondysphoric trans people

We Do NOT Support:

Fakeclaiming any disorder, disability, disease, condition etc for any reason

Gatekeeping anyone from any community (mental health, LGBTQ+ etc) for their identity

Harassment of others based on the fiction they consume or thoughts in their head (or in general)

We Identify As:

Proship, profiction, anti-harassment

Pro-endo, pro-tulpa, pro-nondisordered systems, anti-sysmed

Anti-transmed

If any of this makes you uncomfortable, we expect you to block us without hesitation. Your mental health is more important than us having a follower. We are open to questions regarding anything listed here, however harassment will only get you blocked and reported. Reminder that your own DNI goes both ways; see something here listed on your DNI, then don’t interact with us.