#character ages

[nucifraga]

so... who was going to tell me that my estimates of the tma characters' ages was WAYYY off??

and i know jonny probably meant it to be that way so that there'd be leeway for creative interpretation of the characters and all, but my brain wants them pinned down. so. here's a mini-list/research rant of my favs. presently the list consists of:

Jonathan Sims

Martin Blackwood

Sasha James

Timothy Stoker

Mike Crew !

Oliver Banks

Michael Shelley

Gerard Keay

Three disclaimers – (i) The TMA timeline is a trainwreck. Many assumptions have been made. At least half of them are probably wrong (especially where University is used as an age marker) and also my maths ability sucks because I haven’t done maths in two years, so where there are glaring issues, so feel free to correct me and I will edit accordingly :’) (ii) This is by no means definite. See above. Honestly, attempting to decipher them feels like trying to understand the Spiral. But I’m doing it anyway, because as both a fanfic writer and an academic, I want to at least try. (iii) SPOILER WARNING!! SO MANY SPOILERS! I think the only seaosn that isn't spoiled is maybeeee S5 ???

With that, let's go! [Ages are approximate & as-of 2016 / S1]

Jonathan Sims Age: 28 Birth year: 1987-1988 There seems to be a general consensus on this one. MAG81 appears to be one of the key clues here – ‘Jon says that he was about 8 during the events of the statement and that it happened a year or two after Leitner's library ended, which was in 1994. So he's born around 1987-88.’ [source: reddit]Of note is the fact that he lied about his age and pretended to be older, which is hilarious, and leads me to believe that he’s the youngest of the Archives crew – or at least, near there.

Martin Blackwood Age: 28-ish Birth year: 1988 Has worked for the Institute since at least 2009. He’s lied about having a Master’s in parapsychology, so is likely old enough to feasibly be able to have one. As all institute staff have to at least have a Master’s in something archive-related (iirc), all of them must hence be at least 22/23, assuming the Master’s courses are 1 year long. Jonny has, however, stated that Martin is either a bit older or a bit younger than Jon, and I’m tempted to believe it’s the former (see above).

Sasha James Age: 28-34, 30-ish? Birth year: 1981-1987 There’s like, nothing on Sasha. I’m assuming she’s at least older than Jon, because that might be why he began faking his age. The only possible marker would be that Sasha’s worked in Artefact Storage (for 3 months), Research (for longer, I assume) and long enough in Archives to be considered as Gertrude’s likely successor. So, definitely more qualified, and also older than Jon.

Timothy Stoker Age: 30-ish Birth year: 1986? Tim has a degree in Anthropology from Trinity College (I assume this to be Oxbridge, rather than Ireland or something, since he resides in London), and spent 5 years working at a publishing firm. This puts him at 26 (18+3+5) in 2013 when Danny was taken. As he says he began working for the Institute shortly after, I would assume that this is when he stopped working for the firm. I’ve added a bit of buffer because nobody’s birthdays are given, ever, and also there might have been a bit of time between leaving university and joining the firm and/or leaving the firm and finding the Institute. So – 30.

Okay that’s the core staff, onto my other favs.

Michael 'Mike' Crew Age: 37-ish Birth year: ~1979 My #1 avatar! I did a double-take after I worked out his entire timeline, but here’s the highlights: He was a uni student during late 1997-early 1998 when he went looking for Ex Altiora in Lion Books. I’m assuming he was a first year, because generally uni students stay in the sameish area for the whole course and I don’t see him missing out on an opportunity to Leitner-hunt just because the store was in a slightly out-of-the-way part of town. So! This puts his birthdate at around 1979-1980.

Oliver Banks Age: 28-ish Birth year: ~1987 Oliver Banks’ timeline during & post-Uni makes NO SENSE. Fortunately, we do know that he moved to London around 2005 to do his undergraduate degree at the London School of Economics. Which puts him at around 18 in 2005, and his birth year can be worked out from there. Quick rant about Oliver’s timeline: Oliver is working at Barclays by 2007, and he was recruited after graduating. Which means he both began and subsequently completed his undergraduate degree between 2005 and 2007. That’s literally impossible for a standard 3 year course. Plus, by around 2007, he’s been working for nearly a year at Barclays, so he started in 2006… so apparently he began his degree and completed it in under a year, since the academic year starts in September??

Michael Shelley / Michael the Distortion Age: 31 / 49 / early 50s (but canonically 92 at all points in the timeline) Birth year: ??? I didn’t do the research on this one, so here’s my source because I don’t think there’s any more I can add.This mess is truly Spiral-worthy, which could have been intended, but also may just be the TMA timeline wonkiness at work. There’s also been some speculation that he was hired at even younger than 18, but equally it’s possible that he was hired older, which puts his age squarely into the [I don’t have a fucking clue] range.

Gerard Keay Age: technically 32 Birth year: ~1984 Gerry was born in the 80s, and given that the above source states he was in his ‘late teens’ in 2002, this tracks. Making the assumption that he’s 18 in 2002, I’m going to place his birth year at around 1984. However, he died in 2014 (I’m assuming late-2014, given that he had time to encounter Leitner in London & travel a bit with Gertrude before his death) in the USA, putting him at around 30 at the age of his death. Since he’s dead, he doesn’t really age, but he is ‘aware’ enough to be in existential pain so I’m going to go with Descartes on this one and say he’s ‘alive’ enough to continue counting his years of existence. Poor guy. Doesn’t even get to actually die til August 2017 either.

Part 2 ft. the 4 Grandpas of the Apocalypse here

[lilyginnyblackv2]

Buddy Daddies Character Ages:

Miri: 4 to 5, Timeskip: 15 (1st Year HS)

Karin: 22 to 23, Timeskip: 33

Miss Anna: 24 to 25, Timeskip: 35

Rei: 25 to 26, Timeskip: 36

Kazuki: 28 to 29, Timeskip: 39

Kyutaro: 32 to 33, Timeskip: 43

Basic Timeline:

Met Miri: December 24th, 2022

Christmas Party: December 24th, 2023

Timeskip: April 2033 (Start of School)

[legitimatesatanspawn]

The youngest and oldest members of the Fellowship:

Pippin: Youngest at 28. Unless you count Bill the Pony who can be anywhere between 4 and 25.

Gandalf: Oldest existence, unless you count physical age only. Then its a potential tie or maybe even getting beaten out by Legolas who can be anywhere between 500 and 4000.

Everyone else for the record:

Aragorn: 87

Frodo: 50

Samwise: 38.

Gimli: 139

Boromir: 40

Merry: 36

If we count Smeagol: 578

So the longest lived mortal is potentially Smeagol at 578. The youngest 100% is Bill the Pony.

[roshellow29]

You said something about figuring ages out, was it for brozone? (I read the tags lol)

Oh yeah, I was checking the wiki and made headcannon ages based on what it said for branch and his brothers

Branch canonly is 24 in tbt, and Floyd and the others are canonly supposed to be several years older so let's say branch was like 4 when the band broke up (also the time skips between movies isn't long its like a year or two from trolls 1 to twt and then a month between twt and tbt. But we know it was a 20 year skip from Bz era to trolls 1) and let's say Floyd is like 8 yrs older from branch, being the second youngest

So JD would be 35 currently (15 in Bz)

Bruce is 34 (14 in Bz)

clay 33 (13 in Bz)

Floyd 32 (12 in Bz)

So yeah, these are my headcanon for their EXACT ages, but of course, it's still in the air. But I'm p sure this is close to what it actually is, so :3

[loveandleases]

How old are all the RO’s? I tried to look for ages and I think I missed it

I have posted it before, many posts ago. So, I'll save you the trouble and just answer below.

❤️ Cam - 27

💙 G - 29

💚 Kara - 24

💛 M - 30

💜 Isaac - 26

🖤 Ardent - 35

[agentrouka-blog]

"Four-and-ten, my lady." She had decided that Alayne Stone should be older than Sansa Stark."- Alayne(AFFC II). "But that seemed more something Sansa would have done, that frightened girl. Alayne was an older woman, and bastard brave."-Alayne(AFFC II). It's hilarious that Sansa trying to be older than she is for Alayne. Apparently being 14 made you woman from 13 yrs old girl.

What are you talking about?

"I am almost a man grown," Jon protested. "I will turn fifteen on my next name day, and Maester Luwin says bastards grow up faster than other children." (AGOT, Jon I)

Clearly, Sansa is taking after a great bastard role model and Man Grown, who clearly knew his business in spite of being shorter than Joffrey and judged to look closer to twelve by Tyrion.

Besides, she is almost immature compared to an ancient like Bran:

His eighth name day had come and gone. He was almost a man grown now, too old to cry. (AGOT, Bran IV)

We should be glad she has finally decided to embrace adulthood like these tough grownups.

But wait, what's this?

Jon felt fifteen years old again. (ADWD, Jon IX)

Jon, no, stop backsliding into early adulthood! You are sixteen, practically approaching middle age! Act like it!

[softlyopulent-if]

What's the age difference between MC and each of their siblings (+ Astrite)?

My idea is that Abrin is about one year older than the MC. The twins were old enough to know their mother when the MC was born, so I say about five years older for them. Dalia is about nine years older than the MC, and the oldest.

As for Astrite, he’s about twenty years older than the MC.

[stars-after-dark]

tdj people please help a homie out: how old are yohan, gaon and soohyun meant to be generally 😭 i have it down somwhere that yohan is 44 and gaon is like 29 but i don't trust anything i have written here

[princesssarisa]

I have a question about 18th century literature and opera.

René Jacobs, in his liner notes to his recording of Don Giovanni, talks at length to justify his choice to cast a young baritone in his 20s as the Don, and to argue that in an "authentic" understanding of the opera, the Don must be viewed as a very young man. He makes a convincing case for it, first and foremost because Luigi Bassi, the baritone who created the role, was only 22. I don't take it as gospel, though – for all we know, Mozart and Da Ponte would have been fine with an older singer in the role.

But that's beside the point. Here's my current question.

Jacobs also argues that Leporello should be cast much older than Don Giovanni. He writes that fiction from the 18th century and earlier is full of "young master/older manservant" pairings.

Who and where are those young masters and older manservants?

I've tried to think of every male master/servant pairing I know from opera and other fiction, from other Mozart operas and from other works that came both before and slightly after. But I don't see the age gap trend that Jacobs claims is so ubiquitous. Sancho Panza? Younger than his master. Figaro? No older than 30; just slightly older than the Count at most. Papageno? About 28; again, just slightly older than Tamino. Pedrillo in Die Entführung aus dem Serail? Another young lover, presumably also in his 20s. Dandini in La Cenerentola? Presumably about the same age as Prince Ramiro, since he's able to masquerade as him.

Can someone name a few pre-19th century pairings of "young master/older manservant" that I've either forgotten or haven't heard of before?

@leporellian, @tuttocenere

[thelowerdecker]

I just had a thought, Molly, Libby and Crew would be 15 right now coming up for 16 later this year. According to the Wiki, they were born in 2008 ish.

I mean when they were born, I would have been the same age as they were in the show! (12 - 13 years old) Now THAT makes me feel old! :P

[sallylla]

Neville Nightglider’s timeline (btw, his current age is 29)

[nucifraga]

So, how old are the grandpas of the apocalypse really? Ft. - Jonah Magnus - Simon Fairchild - Peter Lukas - Maxwell Rayner

I MADE A PART 2 OF MY CHARACTER AGES RESEARCH (part 1 incl. og archives crew, 3 avatars + gerry here) after a few days of really wanting to detective the ages of this lot, i finally caved and decided to dig out the magnifying glass! same disclaimers apply! including an extra disclaimer to say that I've changed the formatting for this a lil because there was a Lot More Research done compared to part 1. Necessitated bc these mfs are OLD. (except for peter lukas. peter lukas is surprisingly young??)

(All ages are as of S1 / 2016 & the highlights are in bold if you don't feel like reading my essays)

Jonah Magnus

Age: ~216 Birth Year: ~1800

There are a few landmarks we can use, but because of how shady most are (old-ass letters) I also can’t pin down any solid dates because all the characters involved are fictional ._. Basically the only clues I got were: The Magnus Institute was established in 1818, but Jonah was old enough to travel alone to Germany and exchange letters with a friend (Albrecht von Closen) by 1816. So birthdate around ~1800? 1790?

I tried to find an ‘upper limit’ by using the life expectancy of the time since he also was able to live a ‘natural’ life until the (failed) Watcher’s Crown was carried out ‘at some point closely after February 13th, 1867’, BUT the average life expectancy of men was at most 41 years. So there was some Fairchild-esque shit going on there.

Simon Fairchild

Age: 439 - 488 Birth Year: 1528 - 1577

SPEAKING OF FAIRCHILD - sky grandpa! love him, he’s such a bastard. Anyway, in his own words, he’s had ‘an absurdly long life’. In MAG151 he says he was apprenticed to the Italian artist Tintoretto. Apprenticeships in the Renaissance started at approximately 11-14 years old & lasted for 1-8 years, and I’m assuming this was the same for the 1500s. Hopefully.

Given that Tintoretto became a renowned artist in ~1542, my estimate of the oldest Simon could be would be 14 in 1542. On the other end of the scale, Wikipedia says that his last notable work was Il Paradiso, finished from 1588–1594. I can’t find any mention of works post-1588 so this puts the absolute youngest Simon could be at 11 years old in 1588. From those two estimates, it was just a matter of mathing it out :)

Note 1: Simon mentions that his Becoming was while painting a church, likely a ceiling or high wall since he ‘should have broken his neck’, which should narrow it down – except it doesn’t, because Tintoretto painted a lot of churches x_x Note 2: I’ve just spent half an hour researching an Italian painter & art conventions in the 16th Century, which is of no relevance at all to my STEM degree in the 21st century. Simon’s age doesn’t even particularly matter because it was so long ago that the centuries quite literally blur together. This rabbit hole is incredibly fascinating, but this feels so ironically pointless, which is really, really fitting. Note 3: Simon definitely deserved to get ripped apart by the mob. His time has long, long passed lmao

Peter Lukas

Age: ~49-61 (at the very youngest; 36) Birth Year: late 1950s - late 1960s

Peter appears to be the youngest of these four – surprisingly so! – which makes it a lot simpler to pin down his age. He first meets JamesWright!Jonah between 1973 and 1996 & also he was old enough to have the option of watching TV when he was a child. TV became common in UK homes in the 1960s, so his birthdate at the earliest may be in the late 1950s/1960s.

However, he’s known Jonah as ‘Elias’ for most of their acquaintance by late 2018, meaning that they met at the earliest 1975 (21 years before 1996), but was probably more like 1980ish or later. I don’t think he would have met him too long after becoming an avatar some time after he became ‘old enough to run away’, which I’m assuming means he became aware of the Lonely when teenager-ish.

But spending some time on the Tundra before meeting other avatars makes sense for the Lonely, and so my vague estimate of his birth year would be late 1950s - late 1960s. I don’t think that his birthdate was anywhere later, though it is possible that it could have been as late as 1980 (if he began running away when very young & was introduced to ‘James Wright’ very early into avatar-hood), if incredibly unlikely.

Note: My ‘very youngest’ estimate for Peter Lukas is… younger than my estimate for Mike Crew’s age. I find this inordinately funny.

Maxwell Rayner

Age: 357 Birth Date: 8 November 1658

I have excellent news for Rayner! Good ol’ Jonny has made his original body Edmond Halley. A very famous person with a wikipedia page of his own that conveniently states his date of birth :)

Thanks, Jonny.

Rayner died in February 2017 at the age of 358 years 3 months 2 days, though he did spend a decent amount of time host-less. Unlike Gerard Keay, I’m unsure of how ‘alive’ he was during this time, so I’m just going to count it as ‘alive’-time because it means I get precise numbers for the first time since I started researching character ages!

[siren-darkocean]

My idea of age spans for the Bara Magna inhabitants (main cast)

Ackar ; Late 40's - Early 50's

Kiina ; 16 - 17 (this woman doesn't act like an adult istg)

Gresh ; 17 (same with this mf)

Berix ; 8 - 10 (I will forever believe he's malnourished/mutilated halfie Agori Glatorian kid on the streets it just makes the most sense to me)

Tarix ; 27 - 30

Vastus ; 28 - 29

Strakk. ; 30 - 32

Tuma ; 29 - 30

Metus ; 56 - 57 (man has that experience with being a snake (pun intended) so yeah, older than Ackar but not old enough to be for village elders)

Raanu ; 79's - 80's (I imagine the village elders are usually between these ages, even with mechanical upgrades from the Great Beings that ended up to be even genetic with enough trial and error to be fully successful with the lack of basic resources it would be heck of survival skills to live so long to those ages and ofc those skills would be taught but luck also takes in turn as well)

Cervantus ; 21 - 28 (I imagined one of the greatest Glatorian's, Cervantus would be one of those young prides who rises ranks pretty quickly at a young age (like Ackar as well) before his death)

Malum ; 26 - 29

[legitimatesatanspawn]

Double checking the timeline reminded me of some fun facts:

Bilbo, Age 18: Frodo's father (Drogo Baggins) is born.

Bilbo, Age 21: The Fell Winter. Loss of crops, "large white wolves" (could be wargs) invade the Shire.

Bilbo, Age 22: Region just south of Brandywine floods.

Bilbo, Age 26: Bilbo's paternal grandmother (Laura Baggins nee Grubb) dies at 102, his father (Bungo Baggins) becomes head of family at 70.

Bilbo, Age 30: Frodo's mother (Primula Baggins nee Brandybuck) is born.

Bilbo, Age 33: Officially considered an adult by Shire reckoning.

Bilbo, Age 36: Bilbo's father (Bungo Baggins) dies at 80. Presumably old age.

Bilbo, Age 44: Bilbo's mother (Belldonna Baggins nee Took) dies at 82. Presumably old age.

Bilbo, Age 50-52: The Dwarf Company meets at Bag End in Hobbiton (50/51), Quest ends (51), Bilbo gets home (52).

Bilbo, Age 78: Frodo is born and presumably lives in Hobbiton.

Bilbo, Age 90; Frodo, Age 12: Frodo's parents die (boating accident). Respectively 72 and 60.

Frodo is taken in by his maternal uncle's family (Rorimac Brandybuck) and lives in Brandy Hall in Buckland. Because his parents would often take him to visit his mother's family there, presumably just as much as they'd visit their Baggins side relatives in Hobbiton.

Bilbo, Age 99; Frodo, Age 21: Bilbo officially names Frodo his heir and brings him to Bag End. Note, it's implied he's had lots of visits and everything in between so its not just out of nowhere.

Bilbo, Age 111; Frodo, Age 33: Gandalf visits Bilbo regarding the Ring. The Birthday Party. Frodo is officially considered an adult in the Shire.

Bilbo, Age 112: Bilbo moves into Rivendell.

Bilbo, Age 128; Frodo, Age 50: Frodo gets visited by Gandalf regarding the Ring. Frodo leaves the Shire and reaches Rivendell. Fellowship is founded.

Bilbo, Age 129; Frodo, Age 51: Sauron is defeated. Later, Grima kills Saruman.

Bilbo, Age 131; Frodo, Age 53: Bilbo and Frodo sail off to Valinor.

Presumably Bilbo and Frodo live near/in Valinor for the rest of their days. Barring health issues, Frodo should live another 40 years.

So remember when Bilbo was stressing out over the dwarves using his mother's glorybox to scrape his traveling boots off on? Keep in mind a glory box is basically a big fancy chest that young women would/do (not sure if some places still do this) put items and goods in to help prepare the dowry and then transport it to the new home.

The fact that Hobbits apparently do dowries considering how they handle gift-giving is a little confusing to me. Bungo Baggins did make Bag End for his new wife, though, so maybe both sides do an equivalent to a dowry?

But even setting aside the fact that it was a keepsake and something he clearly cherished, dude was probably still grieving his parents and here comes this pack of random ass strangers just scraping stuff on it like it's that metal thing outside of some old houses I've seen around here. I forget the word for them. Those little metal plates screwed near to the front door on the pavement so that people can scrape off mud and in some cases dogshit/horseshit before entering someone's home.

Honestly I like those plates more than the welcome mats which are often either too thin to be of real use or too difficult to clean. The plate solves both issues.

Bilbo was essentially a teenager when everyone survived a horrible winter with food shortages and vicious attacks by wolves who either overhunted or ran out of prey in their original territory. And then he was a young adult when his parents died. Hobbits come of age at 33 and live to about 90-100. 110 is old af to them while the oldest known hobbit (before Bilbo) being at 130 as incredible. Give it up for Gerontius Took, everyone: Bilbo's maternal grampa!

Also considering Lobella Sacksville-Baggins is Bilbo's immediate cousin through his father's siblings, we have a massive reason for why Lobella being a salty ass isn't just a personality trait but more about family drama. Your bachelor cousin head of the family who has apparently zero interest in marrying or having kids of his own happily visits all his relatives and makes grand gifts to people as part of the local custom regarding birthday parties (Hobbits give gifts on their birthday rather than receiving them).

And then Bilbo adopts a distant cousin instead. 1st/2nd degree actually based on family but Bilbo's grandfather's brother's great-grandson doesn't roll off as easily, although Bilbo's maternal aunt's grandson does. Meanwhile Lobella is Bilbo's uncle's daughter-in-law making her son Lotho would've been his immediate successor by inheritance laws. Of course, Lobella is no saint and she was preemptively nasty and grabby with things not even hers but I'm gonna admit, if I cared about that I would definitely feel hurt.

[horizon-verizon]

Isn't it like wrong to call Viserys a rapist? He groomed Aemma and Alicent but he didn't rape them in a sense he didn't go like Aegon with Dyana. There are many types of rape of course but like it seems wrong

*EDITED POST* (4/13/24)

Ask comes in response to this reblog/post. This is about the show, yes?

No this isn't like anything with Aegon raping Dyana, taking her surprise and her yelling at him to stop. BUT I'd say that seeing that your wife doesn't want you to touch her means she hasn't given consent. Alicent was very obvious in her lack of desire to have sex with Viserys.

We have no scenes of show!Viserys marrying and living life with Aemma before episode 1, right? So we have to assume that in HotD, he also married Aemma at the ages in the original story/the bks. Age is definitely a matter we can look at here to determine grooming or no grooming, but since this is a world where:

most noble marriages are arranged and those marrying often do not actually get to choose their legal partners

where the marrying AND consummating persons can be under our (American, idk abt other nations) legal age of 18

we need to see who pursued who before the betrothal (not the marriage, the betrothal) AND why they did so? Because there is a difference b/t:

someone trying to preemptively make their future spouse more comfortable with them so the eventual consummation isn't awkward or a "failure" or stressful or something else I add below about the anxiety to perform one's duty

--AND--

them claiming they are doing such only to get the target to fuck them/be more vulnerable to their influence.

There's no strong proof of him wanting a sick sense of control or influence over Aemma before they married or betrothed. There's no proof of Viserys asking or pushing for a marriage with her for the express purpose of fucking with a child, because he wanted to have that type of control over her or any child. And they were arranged to be wed. He was around 16 to Aemma's 11 when they married and they consummated their marriage when she was 13.

Under this context, the 2 years of waiting might have been seen as "too long", as much as it shouldn't have been, but for whoever were willing to marry Aemma off at her 11 yrs of age are probably those who also applied some pressure to said couple to consummate, EVEN IF the couple actually liked each other, too.

Even without some external entity actively or purposefully making that sort of pressure--either maliciously or impatiently, like ordering a consummation versus constantly asking about it--the couple themselves could have both felt anxious to perform their "duties" to & for their parents/authority figures/families. But we simply don't know for sure and it wouldn't be mutually exclusive.

The couple lived & grew up in a world with little concept of a strong "legal" age, or a boundary for girls that was also enforced by laws. A world where doing your duty to your families, to your "God", to the authority figures around, to oaths you take you were often held as higher ethical standards than doing what some of us moderns would think is an ethical duty to "humanity".

Adult!Viserys expressly chose Alicent, though. And with Alicent being very obvious, I don't see how he couldn't have seen Alicent's reluctance or hesitance in all the times they had sex (at least 4 for each child)? From what little we see, they don't seem to be a couple where they (really Viserys) at least watch for each other's cues or signs of desire in bed. AllegedlyLola on TikTok says it best of HotD!Viserys (but much can the same shoudl be said for his book version): he says he loved Aemma, that he will always love her, etc. and pedestalizes Aemma to the degree that Rhaenrya could never be Baelon, her siblings can never be her, and all to never really give us a real picture of who Aemma was so he does not have to divulge how some of his actions have ruined Aemma's life. Helaena not having kids or at least stop having them before Rhaenrya becomes Queen/he dies would have even helped Rhaenyra...smh. He doesn't ever think to not let his daughter Helaena marry at 13 & have TWINS not long after (as Aemma died in part bc she started having children WAY too early after they consummated their marriage); he forces his daughter to marry Laenor to fix a problem he created instead of actually thinking about what would be better for her claim and position--which is not to marry a gay man!, esp when everyone knows he is gay; I mention Alicent already...this is the same guy who marries a 15 year old but gets angry with Daemon for seducing his 19 year old daughter and saying she is just a "girl"...bro...Add on the fact he allowed a faction against his heir and be lead by his second obviously hostile Hand & wife exist in court instead of properly intervening and diminishing Otto and Alicent's influence over Rhaenrya so she wouldn't have to escape to Dragonstone...no self reflection, just constant deflection, ignoring, placating the wrong people, putting his foot down at the wrong moments, not pursuing certain avenues or voids of information like in the Vhagar claim incident AND allowed the same thing that happens to his first wife happen to his next wife and his two daughters...ugh.

Getting back to Alicent, remember, consent is not a one-size-fits-all. You need to constantly ask for it and confirm it.

Keep in mind that this is an HotD Watsonian reading/analysis. The writers chose to make show!Alicent so vulnerable and defenseless to introduce something that modern viewers would easier think of her with their no-under 18s (and in certain age gaps, really under 25s) rule without making them really think about what these people themselves were going through. It's easier to assess a medieval setting or circumstance with the rules of conduct that we follow and know and then apply to them as if they would 100% understand how we think INSTEAD OF us FIRST trying to understand how they would think & react to what they have had to live with or learned so that we may expose how/where the double standards are.

I'm not saying that we should go back to marrying 15 year olds, I'm saying take a breather and assess how these people will think & act and assign the "fault" of such to the world instead of just them. Where it's appropriate. I am also not saying that you shouldn't feel uncomfortable, either. I'm saying do the activity fiction requires of us and see through the characters' eyes to understand them instead of trying to enforce you own views right away and all the time to find the nuance.

Example, this Youtube commentator perfectly describes Alicent's mindset within the lens & contextual vocabulary of what the feudal world asks of its people, acknowledging her victimhood but still holding Alicent accountable/showing/implying how wrong she isr:

[dduane]

Good evening. (In your time zone that is) :)

A friend and myself were having a…spirited…discussion about character ages in the YW verse. I got fed up and said, “I’m just going to ask the writer!” 😂

So if it’s not a bother, may I ask how old Kit, Nita, Ronan, Dairine, and Carmela are at the present moment?

Thank you!

Well, since we reset the series timeline to start in 2008, everybody’s in their mid-twenties at minimum. (Dairine being youngest, as always, if she was eleven in 2008, she’d be twenty-one in 2018. So this year she’ll be twenty-five on October 20th.)

Kit and Nita (since their ages were set as equal when Kit’s “grade-skipping” backstory was revised) would therefore both be twenty-eight this year: Nita on April 16th, Kit on August 25th. 

Headcanon for me (and I’ve got to nail this down in the revision of the Errantry Concordance) has always had Carmela as three years older than Kit, which makes her thirty-one (on November 7th). Ronan (the same headcanon says) is two years older than Nita, so he’s thirty at the moment (though I don’t have his birthday, sorry).

HTH!

(...Strange to see all those, well, aged-up ages. They grow up so fast...) :)