#ex islam

[voxpraxis]

lately i've been... idk if you can really call it "debating" but i've been interacting with some muslims in the comments of an instagram reel in which a young girl was speaking to a young boy (i want to emphasize that they are both children) and telling him that she wasn't allowed to speak to boys until she was married, because her parents and her religion said so. the boy was sad but replied with something like "oh, alright" and the caption & comments were all talking about how "sweet" the situation was. i commented that i didn't think it was sweet, and actually that's a horrible thing to put in a child's mind. the post never directly mentioned islam and neither did i, but everyone who's been replying to me is proselytizing islam, so. anyway, these are the points that have been thrown at me so far:

it's not wrong because both genders are forced apart from each other

in response to me saying it still enforces an extreme divide between genders and encourages them to see each other as opposites rather than equals: the separation is necessary to prevent rape

there is no rape in islam because of the separation between men and women, rape only occurs in western society because men and women are not separated (...because apparently we cannot expect men to not rape women unless they're physically kept away from them at all times)

rape does not happen between family members, it's just not a real thing, ever (incest doesn't exist?)

if you're interested in a girl you should marry her immediately, because dating leads to cheating

men and women cannot be just friends because "islam and science and psychology says so." one guy said it's because "women can't talk about cars and sports"

(i also got called a simp for saying i have female friends. can't make this shit up)

in response to me pointing out that what the girl is saying implies that she won't have any say in who her husband is: arranged marriages are better because they always work out and unlike western marriages, they never end in divorce! (i'll give you one guess why that is.)

similarly, single parent families and suicide are solely western problems

men and women are NOT equal

i need to shut up and respect it because that's their religion

islam cannot be questioned because islam says islam is true

and that's not including all the personal insults and threats i've received, in just a few days.

i will say this is one of the least challenging "debates" i've ever had, in the sense that almost no point brought against me has any logical foundation and is easily refutable. but it's one of the most frustrating because the problem is that they won't hear me at all, because islam teaches its followers to never consider anything else. it teaches them to accept exactly what they are spoon-fed as the ultimate truth. and this is by no means a problem exclusive to islam, but islam does this kind of control better than any other religion i know. people raised into islam are not taught to think in any logical terms - in fact, they're deliberately taught to avoid thinking logically. logical fallacies are the rule. so not only can they barely form a coherent argument in favour of their beliefs, but they have absolutely no clue how illogical they sound sometimes. when i point out a lapse in logic in something they've said, the response i get is "no, that's true because islam says it's true." no other explanation required. at least, i've sometimes heard people of other religions attempt to use logic or science to prove their beliefs, but with the muslims in these comments, those are unnecessary things to be absolutely avoided - it's like they don't even understand why i'd bother to use them. you can't use logic to get through to them because they've been taught to avoid logic and cling to the mantra of islam-is-true-because-islam-says-so.

[apostateoverrubies]

I hope all my ex Muslim followers are doing okay.

[djbjmj]

Are there any exmuslims that are afraid of witchcraft?

I mean I don't believe God exists, but people are saying devils and spirits do. I don't know and I don't intent to find out honestly. I'm not into manipulating things and life. I just want to exist. Basically don't believe in anything and just want to stay that way for my own sanity.

But what if I get harmed or cursed? It sounds terrifying.

Am i being rude?

[gokbukethings]

Ex-muslims trying to not hold fascistic views after leaving Islam challenge (impossible)

[queerism1969]

[crownspeaksblog]

Marriage in general is fucked in the middle east..

I hate hate HATE living in a country where girls being married off at 15 is seen as something to be envious of.. is seen as something to be admired for..for fuck sakes! That's a fucking child!! I remember a classmate talking about i think a cousin of hers who's 15 who's married to a 29/30 year old man and how MUCH he LOVES her and how everyday he does her FUCKING HAIR FOR FUCKING SCHOOL!!!!

i saw a video of a 26 year old mother selling food on the street to make money and the top comment on that video was a man (sincerely) offering to marry her and he had like 100 replies of people asking him if he did it already and praising him for it..

And you know what's annoying is when i try to point out how fucked up those things are.. I'm almost always in the minority, I'm almost always argued against and people try to justify something like this by being like "this is our culture"....

fuck this culture and religion because you know damn well this shit is rooted in religion.. girls married off when they hit puberty to men twice their age is seen as an accomplishment.. men being encouraged to grace widows and divorced women with their kindness and marry them like they're broken or used (even if it meant getting a second, third or a fourth wife)...

And i know to most people reading this shit it sounds like I'm making it up but I'm not and you have no idea how much i wish i was..

[voxpraxis]

[video of two muslim women in full-coverage outfits]

commenter 1: sister your dress needs to be longer, your feet should be covered

commenter 2: sister your dress is too long, it is dragging on the floor

commenter 3: sisters neither of your outfits are proper hijab

commenter 4: sisters being on social media is immodest and distracting

verdict: you can't win

[apostateoverrubies]

Okay so I recently became aware of a tactic that queerphobic people tend to use when debating on LGBTQ+ rights thanks to a Muslim I've been debating with.

They'll ask for our stance on pedophilia since if we're advocating for the rights of queer identities, we have to accept pedophiles as well.

They want to back you into a corner and make you think that queerness and pedophilia are intertwined when that isn't the case.

If that were the case, then only queer people would be attracted to kids but there are also plenty of heterosexual people like that too.

Just because they want to weasel their way into our community doesn't mean we accept them.

Now, it's time for me to go into why a Muslim has no place to criticize LGBTQ+ community for pedophilia acceptance.

I'm doing this because the whole reason this debate is happening is because of one of my earlier posts where I called out certain religious folks for supposedly being against pedophilia while being part of groups that supported it.

I will say I should've worded that post better and be clear about which specific religious groups are guilty of this. But otherwise, my point still stands.

Anyways, back to Islam.

I think many ex Muslims and hopefully other ex religious people out there know about Aisha.

For those of you who don't, Aisha is Muhammad's child bride. They married when she was only six and their relationship was consummated when she was 9.

She was his favorite wife.

So already this is a bad look. How can you say we're the ones promoting pedophilia when your own prophet married a little girl?

But that's not the only case of it, though it is definitely a very infamous one.

What I want to focus on though is verse 65:4. The general focus of the 65 is divorce, thus the title "Surah At-Talaq".

In 65:4, it goes into the waiting period women and girls have until they are either "honorably retained" or "honorably separated." For those going through menopause and even those who have not menstruated, their period is three months.

Sure, one could argue that it could apply to women who are simply unable to menstruate. But if that were the case, we wouldn't be seeing child marriage in the Quran at all.

And like I said, it wasn't just Muhammad who married an underaged girl.

Umar would go on to marry Umm Kuthum while she had supposedly had not yet reached puberty. (But from what I've heard, not every Muslim acknowledges this marriage.)

Urwah ibn Zubayr had also apparently married off his daughter while she was still very young.

Not to mention, child marriage was widespread in Muslim countries. It's only becoming less common place because of "westernization and man-made laws", though this is according to an Islamis source.

And even with all that aside, AFAB Muslims even before puberty are sexualized through strict dress codes to supposedly protect their purity. Though what really is going on here is that young girls are seen as inherently sexual in their eyes, and instead of protecting them from creeps, it's on the girls to "remain pure."

So yeah, next time you think about calling out queer people for pedophilia acceptance, check your own religion first.

[djbjmj]

INSANE!

The comment section on this tiktok is so fucked. These people are trying so hard to convince people that living a restricted and sad life to not end up in hell is better than having fun in the one life they have.

The amount of "I'm the religious one" is so sad. I feel bad that these people think it's normal.

[gokbukethings]

Do you actually care about Muslims or do you just want to get leftism points?

[annasinthewalls]

Feel free to rb for more varied input